politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Scottish Independence Referendum becomes a clash of pol

HenryG - really good to see you back today after such a long absence, especially handing out your quality Tennis & Political tips.
I followed you by backing Burnham to be the next Labour leader, which could prove to be a very, very long wait. But then again .......

Politically Diane Abbott's housing question was a better target for Ed.

One area where Labour is shameless on the NHS is in not acknowledging that their open door immigration policy 1997-2010 was always going to require a significantly level of investment in the NHS, just to stand still.

The same applies to education.

Thanks Peter. As you know, I don't go for short-priced so-called 'dead certs' but aim to win in the longer run. The key for those who've not backed my tennis picks in the past, is to take a medium term view focusing on value.

Ed can't pledge an EU referendum now, it'd look like a complete capitulation to UNITE.

For better or worse he has to maintain Labour's blank sheet of paper on Europe.

Might annoy Len though...

Oh my .... the gloomy faces behind Ed.

MikeSmithson said:

SimonStClare said:

JackW said:

It comes to something when Ed fails to win an NHS exchange

Welsh NHS a mill stone round Ed's neck.

As is Mid-Staff Hospital.

Cameron says average waiting times when Miliband was in cabinet was over 70 minutes. Now it is around 30 minutes.

There are more doctors, nurses and midwives. More patients are being treated every year, he says. Under Labour, we had the disgrace of Mid-Staffs.

Mid-Staffs doesn't resonate. Cameron said there'd be no top down re-organisation of the NHS which there was. This is the Tory tuition fees.

The blues are lucky that the shadow health sec is the under-whelming Andy Burnham.

That's the funny thing. Burnham is supposed to do quite well in focus groups. Just shows that what you need with shadow ministers is effective attack dogs. That doesn't work with the leader though - look at Michael Howard.

CarlottaVance said:

malcolmg said:

CarlottaVance said:

malcolmg said:

TheWatcher said:

malcolmg said:

TGOHF said:

Bond_James_Bond said:

There was a time a few months ago on here when every thread, no matter what the subject, was instantly wrecked by buffoons banging on about north Britain and telling us all - from Sweden - about how wa didnae understand what was afoot in the centre of the political universe, Dundee (or wherever). No matter what the rest of us were talking about, all that mattered to a certain nutty tendency was Scotland.

Some of the more acutely touched in the head posters have departed, so that a blessed near-silence from this tendency now reigns.

Perhaps the cyber slush fund has dried up ?

You wish Flash, not many of your billionaire blood suckers helping NO out , leaving it to the Tories to use public funds to fight their battle.

Just like the SNP?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2673136/SNP-crisis-summit-orders-huge-taxpayer-funded-publicity-blitz-support-Yes-campaign-plummets-polls.html

You are getting out from under your rock a lot these days , cretin.

Oh, the rapier wit!

The scintillating repartee!

What will we do after September 18 when you fall strangely silent......?

One thing is for sure you will not get a life , and will be very embarrassed to boot . I will enjoy slagging foreigners, who will still be wittering about border posts and how big a clout they have as they get humilated once again by all and sundry.
You will love being a RUMP UK citizen , near as good as JackW loving being an ARSE.

And the Nats wonder why they are losing.....what's plan B on currency? When was the last time you engaged in debate rather than simply insult those who hold a different view from yourself?

Pound Yawn, how stupid are you

SimonStClare said:

"Greg Mulholland, a Lib Dem, says the Tour de France is coming to Yorkshire this weekend. Will Cameron support it?

Cameron says this will be a fantastic event. He will see some of it himself. He will do everything to promote it, apart from wearing lycra."

Sound advice - I hope Ed Balls takes the hint..!

I'll be near the finish in Sheffield, "Jenkin Road" could well be one of the best bits of the early tour.

Pulpstar said:

SimonStClare said:

"Greg Mulholland, a Lib Dem, says the Tour de France is coming to Yorkshire this weekend. Will Cameron support it?

Cameron says this will be a fantastic event. He will see some of it himself. He will do everything to promote it, apart from wearing lycra."

Sound advice - I hope Ed Balls takes the hint..!

I'll be near the finish in Sheffield, "Jenkin Road" could well be one of the best bits of the early tour.

Hope you get a good view - not cycled seriously since my army days but still love the sport - and yes, I did wear Lycra..!

Charles said:

MikeSmithson said:

SimonStClare said:

JackW said:

It comes to something when Ed fails to win an NHS exchange

Welsh NHS a mill stone round Ed's neck.

As is Mid-Staff Hospital.

Cameron says average waiting times when Miliband was in cabinet was over 70 minutes. Now it is around 30 minutes.

There are more doctors, nurses and midwives. More patients are being treated every year, he says. Under Labour, we had the disgrace of Mid-Staffs.

Mid-Staffs doesn't resonate. Cameron said there'd be no top down re-organisation of the NHS which there was. This is the Tory tuition fees.

The blues are lucky that the shadow health sec is the under-whelming Andy Burnham.

Nope, this is a bottom up reorganisation.
Giving power back to the GPs - the people who know the patients. Or that was the plan until the Libdems hamstrung it.

Very true about the meddling by the LDs, but we should not expect them to share the blame for it. It was a political mistake by Cameron to leave it to Lansley and Letwin to reconcile the two views into a modified plan which led to a reorg.... But the Head of an organisation has to trust the people they appointed, unfortunately these two were/are prize duffers.

norman smith ✔ @BBCNormanS

Unite conference votes in favour of motion calling on Labour to back In Out EU referendum @unitetheunion

TCPoliticalBetting said:

Charles said:

MikeSmithson said:

SimonStClare said:

JackW said:

It comes to something when Ed fails to win an NHS exchange

Welsh NHS a mill stone round Ed's neck.

As is Mid-Staff Hospital.

Cameron says average waiting times when Miliband was in cabinet was over 70 minutes. Now it is around 30 minutes.

There are more doctors, nurses and midwives. More patients are being treated every year, he says. Under Labour, we had the disgrace of Mid-Staffs.

Mid-Staffs doesn't resonate. Cameron said there'd be no top down re-organisation of the NHS which there was. This is the Tory tuition fees.

The blues are lucky that the shadow health sec is the under-whelming Andy Burnham.

Nope, this is a bottom up reorganisation.
Giving power back to the GPs - the people who know the patients. Or that was the plan until the Libdems hamstrung it.

Very true about the meddling by the LDs, but we should not expect them to share the blame for it. It was a political mistake by Cameron to leave it to Lansley and Letwin to reconcile the two views into a modified plan which led to a reorg.... But the Head of an organisation has to trust the people they appointed, unfortunately these two were/are prize duffers.

Sure - but I was responding to OGH's claim that it was a 'top down reorganisation': it wasn't.

This is about taking power away from the centre and putting in the hands of the people who know what the patients want and need

Charles said:

MikeSmithson said:

SimonStClare said:

JackW said:

It comes to something when Ed fails to win an NHS exchange

Welsh NHS a mill stone round Ed's neck.

As is Mid-Staff Hospital.

Cameron says average waiting times when Miliband was in cabinet was over 70 minutes. Now it is around 30 minutes.

There are more doctors, nurses and midwives. More patients are being treated every year, he says. Under Labour, we had the disgrace of Mid-Staffs.

Mid-Staffs doesn't resonate. Cameron said there'd be no top down re-organisation of the NHS which there was. This is the Tory tuition fees.

The blues are lucky that the shadow health sec is the under-whelming Andy Burnham.

Nope, this is a bottom up reorganisation.

Giving power back to the GPs - the people who know the patients. Or that was the plan until the Libdems hamstrung it.

Charles said:

MikeSmithson said:

SimonStClare said:

JackW said:

It comes to something when Ed fails to win an NHS exchange

Welsh NHS a mill stone round Ed's neck.

As is Mid-Staff Hospital.

Cameron says average waiting times when Miliband was in cabinet was over 70 minutes. Now it is around 30 minutes.

There are more doctors, nurses and midwives. More patients are being treated every year, he says. Under Labour, we had the disgrace of Mid-Staffs.

Mid-Staffs doesn't resonate. Cameron said there'd be no top down re-organisation of the NHS which there was. This is the Tory tuition fees.

The blues are lucky that the shadow health sec is the under-whelming Andy Burnham.

Nope, this is a bottom up reorganisation.

Giving power back to the GPs - the people who know the patients. Or that was the plan until the Libdems hamstrung it.

Yes I agree, but the framework is in place for it to continue to be driven by the users. The NHS spends a lot of money - it's under pressure. The worry is that people like GPs or potential GPs chose to work in another profession.
The French NHS of course, always lauded as the best, is in deficit to the tune of billions of Euros.

Sun politics awards Cameron PMQs 5-1....

Sun politics awards Cameron PMQs 5-1

Fascinating, almost the same as the Tory posters, I am deeply shocked.

Baaa Baaa Baaa went the little sheep

Ah, MalkieG, the kilt wearing shepherd frae Aberdeen returns.

(Kilt wearing shepherd? The sheep know what the sound of a zip means)

@Pulpstar
And your point is?

Theuniondivvie said:

On topic, Survation may bite back.

Survation ‏@Survation 10 mins
For those who have asked, relative to today's @yougov & @thetimes articles. We will be discussing our methodology thoughts on the #indyref

I did wonder if Mr Kellner's comments were provoked by Mr Lowe's comment on PB about the Euros.

As I recall he highlighted YouGov prompting for UKIP in their (close to the result) EU Parliament polling, which they do not do in their General Election polling.

Watching Daily Politics for once and two things struck me. Chris Leslie' answers were so predictable (as are most politicians), and the remark from the deputy political correspondent that the real reason why Ed won't agree to a referendum is that he thinks no one would believe him. If that's the case, he's really in trouble.

In Cammo's case, we think there will be a referendum but he is only going through the motions.

What's most irritating for me about the EC drive to political union is the realisation that it was always the intention to do that. But the cunning plan was to pretend that it was only going to be a trading area. Once that was established, and hopefully the benefits of trade became clear, they could march on to the real objective.The Sudetenland plan, in essemce, but don't let the voters know, they might object.

And politicians wonder why they're not trusted. It's a two-way street.

Edin_Rokz said:

Baaa Baaa Baaa went the little sheep

Ah, MalkieG, the kilt wearing shepherd frae Aberdeen returns.

(Kilt wearing shepherd? The sheep know what the sound of a zip means)

Have a few of those rocks fell on your napper. Trying to pretend you are Scottish is pretty infantile. I think if you try hard you will find I am almost as close to London as I am to Aberdeen you stupid turnip. What I would expect from a unionist troll.

norman smith ✔ @BBCNormanS

Labour say they will not change policy on EU referendum despite @unitetheunion vote

In case of backtracking/U-turn,one to save ;-)

taffys said:

I have to hand it to MalcolmG, hanging around even as the going gets tough for the nats. No fair weather poster, he

I notice Mick 'Chortle' Pork is conspicuous by his absence these days.

PB tories 'always wrong, never learn' was his mantra. Well, one of the more polite ones anyway.

He's banned.

@Pulpstar
I like to listen to it when I can.
Ed was using one set of figures, and Dave another.
Listen to it and note that Cam was answering different questions to the ones asked.
It was the same with the figures in Ed's speech the other day, the Spectator had a look at his and Dave's data.
Possibly worth a read if you are interested in politics and betting, ignore it if you only want to score points on a board.

Charles said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Pulpstar said:

But we all know Ed is basically Crap - under a different leader, I think Labour would perhaps still b in the forties heading for a nailed on majority right now.

I'm not so sure about that, at least not with the available candidates. The only one of the five who ran last time that I rate is Ed Balls, but although he's a more effective politician than Ed M in my view, it's also true that he's not terribly likeable. And I don't see Chukka, Rachel Reeves or Yvette as obviously better than Ed M.

I think a lot of the strategic errors that Ed has made have effectively been forced on him by the blind alley Gordon Brown took the party into.

I do hope they choose Chukka.

I can't imagine a more self-inflated empty suit.

I have great confidence that the British people will see through him in no time

All this just shows what a dangerous time it is for a party when it chanes leader. In my view parties change theor leaders far too quickly. Looking around - who do Labour have? By all means name names but bear in mind how whoever they chose will cause some dispute in one or more wings of the party.
The tories frankly should be grateful they have Cameron and should think a dozen times before mooting any change. What he has now is experience. It's easy for any new starry eyed leader from any party to think they can do this that or the other but reality is a hard taskmaster, its silly to throw away what it teaches.

malcolmg said:

CarlottaVance said:

malcolmg said:

CarlottaVance said:

malcolmg said:

CarlottaVance said:

malcolmg said:

TheWatcher said:

malcolmg said:

TGOHF said:

Bond_James_Bond said:

There was a time a few months ago on here when every thread, no matter what the subject, was instantly wrecked by buffoons banging on about north Britain and telling us all - from Sweden - about how wa didnae understand what was afoot in the centre of the political universe, Dundee (or wherever). No matter what the rest of us were talking about, all that mattered to a certain nutty tendency was Scotland.

Some of the more acutely touched in the head posters have departed, so that a blessed near-silence from this tendency now reigns.

Perhaps the cyber slush fund has dried up ?

You wish Flash, not many of your billionaire blood suckers helping NO out , leaving it to the Tories to use public funds to fight their battle.

Just like the SNP?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2673136/SNP-crisis-summit-orders-huge-taxpayer-funded-publicity-blitz-support-Yes-campaign-plummets-polls.html

You are getting out from under your rock a lot these days , cretin.

Oh, the rapier wit!

The scintillating repartee!

What will we do after September 18 when you fall strangely silent......?

One thing is for sure you will not get a life , and will be very embarrassed to boot . I will enjoy slagging foreigners, who will still be wittering about border posts and how big a clout they have as they get humilated once again by all and sundry.
You will love being a RUMP UK citizen , near as good as JackW loving being an ARSE.

And the Nats wonder why they are losing.....what's plan B on currency? When was the last time you engaged in debate rather than simply insult those who hold a different view from yourself?

Pound Yawn, how stupid are you

Not stupid enough to think you'll get a joint bank account....

with or without makes little difference , still the Pound, hard luck unionists.

Oh I think you'll find it does.......

Such a move would likely see Scotland resigning all control over monetary policy and losing the Bank of England as lender of last resort, with potentially dire economic consequences.

Interest rates would be set by a foreign country, while the lack of backup support for the financial sector could trigger a banking exodus.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/10657721/Scottish-independence-Alex-Salmond-reveals-currency-Plan-B.html

MarqueeMark said:

One area where Labour is shameless on the NHS is in not acknowledging that their open door immigration policy 1997-2010 was always going to require a significantly level of investment in the NHS, just to stand still.

The same applies to education.

I love the way Labour relabelled what is patently current spending as investment, i.e. capital spending.

"Leon Brittan passed abuse concerns to police"
Nice line, especially when on the same page we have,
"Met Police 'deleted discrimination findings' "
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-28121073

@Bond_James_Bond
"I love the way Labour relabelled what is patently current spending as investment, i.e. capital spending. "

You must adore George (smoke and mirrors) Osbourne then?

Bond_James_Bond said:

MarqueeMark said:

One area where Labour is shameless on the NHS is in not acknowledging that their open door immigration policy 1997-2010 was always going to require a significantly level of investment in the NHS, just to stand still.

The same applies to education.

I love the way Labour relabelled what is patently current spending as investment, i.e. capital spending.

To be fair to Labour - in this instance - they are following standard accountancy practice.

Flightpath said:

Charles said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Pulpstar said:

But we all know Ed is basically Crap - under a different leader, I think Labour would perhaps still b in the forties heading for a nailed on majority right now.

I'm not so sure about that, at least not with the available candidates. The only one of the five who ran last time that I rate is Ed Balls, but although he's a more effective politician than Ed M in my view, it's also true that he's not terribly likeable. And I don't see Chukka, Rachel Reeves or Yvette as obviously better than Ed M.

I think a lot of the strategic errors that Ed has made have effectively been forced on him by the blind alley Gordon Brown took the party into.

I do hope they choose Chukka.

I can't imagine a more self-inflated empty suit.

I have great confidence that the British people will see through him in no time

All this just shows what a dangerous time it is for a party when it chanes leader. In my view parties change theor leaders far too quickly. Looking around - who do Labour have? By all means name names but bear in mind how whoever they chose will cause some dispute in one or more wings of the party.
The tories frankly should be grateful they have Cameron and should think a dozen times before mooting any change. What he has now is experience. It's easy for any new starry eyed leader from any party to think they can do this that or the other but reality is a hard taskmaster, its silly to throw away what it teaches.

Labour need someone who can engage with the working class old Labour vote

Frank Field is too old I guess, I always say Jon Cruddas but to me he seems the most down to earth option... He is quite good on the tv, has been on This Week with Portillo a few times... I think labour would do better with him in charge than any of the others

He has a senior role without the stain of office in the last govt... From wiki his views on immigration, and he will know, being the MP for Dagenham, are what labour should be saying to it's core vote

"He has also described himself as "mistaken" over his decision to vote for British participation in the 2003 invasion of Iraq and has criticised his party's record on immigration, saying that "we had too many people coming too fast", and that "immigration has been used as a 21st century incomes policy, and protections in terms of the labour market have not been substantial enough."

@Bond_James_Bond
"It's not fair, give the puir wee babbies more English gold."

You would have to give the people of the other UK nations that have been pushed into poverty, their share as well.
But as you are blind to what is happening to your country, you wouldn't think of that, would you?

Delighted to see Henry G down here below the line - hope he makes a reappearance above the line at some point!

taffys said:

Oh my .... the gloomy faces behind Ed.
Wales is a big problem for Labour, and getting bigger. Health and Education are labour's central plank policies. Cameron has indicated today how they can no longer attack on those issues.

Maybe, but Labour's vote in the EC elections rose by +7.86% in the recent elections.

HurstLlama said:

taffys said:

I have to hand it to MalcolmG, hanging around even as the going gets tough for the nats....

Also to be fair to Mr. G., it was once possible to have a sensible conversation with him. Nowadays, he mainly just produces abuse of the type and frequency that would get other posters banned. Why he is allowed such licence I know not, but he is. However the good thing is that most of his posts are very short so he doesn't waste much of my time. I just wish that the real Mr. G. would come back to us.

I think he simply has Tourette's with a topnote of Dunning-Kruger.

Charles said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

Charles said:

MikeSmithson said:

SimonStClare said:

JackW said:

It comes to something when Ed fails to win an NHS exchange

Welsh NHS a mill stone round Ed's neck.

As is Mid-Staff Hospital.

Cameron says average waiting times when Miliband was in cabinet was over 70 minutes. Now it is around 30 minutes.

There are more doctors, nurses and midwives. More patients are being treated every year, he says. Under Labour, we had the disgrace of Mid-Staffs.

Mid-Staffs doesn't resonate. Cameron said there'd be no top down re-organisation of the NHS which there was. This is the Tory tuition fees.

The blues are lucky that the shadow health sec is the under-whelming Andy Burnham.

Nope, this is a bottom up reorganisation.
Giving power back to the GPs - the people who know the patients. Or that was the plan until the Libdems hamstrung it.

Very true about the meddling by the LDs, but we should not expect them to share the blame for it. It was a political mistake by Cameron to leave it to Lansley and Letwin to reconcile the two views into a modified plan which led to a reorg.... But the Head of an organisation has to trust the people they appointed, unfortunately these two were/are prize duffers.

Sure - but I was responding to OGH's claim that it was a 'top down reorganisation': it wasn't.

This is about taking power away from the centre and putting in the hands of the people who know what the patients want and need

I don't want to give cause for alarm but you suck at English.

Smarmeron said:

@taffys
You would assume that it might have required an answer rather than just, "handing it on" ,then forgetting about it?
(Your mileage may vary according to your view of child abuse)

What's got your goat today, Smarmy? World against you (again)?

Smarmeron said:

@taffys
You would assume that it might have required an answer rather than just, "handing it on" ,then forgetting about it?
(Your mileage may vary according to your view of child abuse)

What could he say, without risk of prejudicing any subsequent prosecution.

* I'll make sure the police look at it * is the most helpful thing he could do & I'm sure it's what the MP in question was hoping for

Good afternoon, everyone.

Not really following the tennis (though I watched Bouchard beat Kerber), but I see Murray has decided to emulate the example of the Byzantine Emperor Basil II.

Basil, of course, was thrashed by Stephen the Great (an early Bulgar leader), but more than made up for the defeat by his subsequent glorious victories.

Mr. Smarmeron, the absence of a reply doesn't necessarily mean you're being ignored. The other person may have nothing to add, or simply have left (I come and go several times a day, usually).

@Morris_Dancer
Very true Morris, however I try to "weight" for things like that, of course, as we all know "weighting" is an imprecise science, or perhaps arcane art?

Smarmeron said:

@TOPPING
Deviation, hesitation, repetition. a bit like "Just a Minute" with equally abstract and unfair scoring.

You sound down. I'm going to send out for one of Avery's yellow boxes.

Instant happy face.

Smarmeron said:

@TOPPING

My happiness is assured and unbounded. Get him to do one on the present projection for "house starts" for this year if you could?

hmm - we have all seen the document showing housing starts (public and private) over the past few decades.

Doesn't reflect well on anyone tbh and so in the same breath as saying that the Cons aren't building enough you could as easily ask why Lab didn't build any either while they were in power.

Not of course that I want to send you back to that slough of despond....

https://gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/live-tables-on-house-building

@TOPPING
The projection for this year is for them to be down 4%, with the figures due at a very awkward time.
Expect smoke and mirrors combined with buck passing (the relevant ministers are looking into this as we speak).

"Eleven arrested in £300m Manchester drugs raids"

Does this count as a positive or negative for the new revamped GDP calculations?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-28112292

@TOPPING

House price inflation is no bad thing either?
Except of course when it is under a Labour administration, in which case, it is responsible for over leveraging, and the subsequent crash.