Aside from his vaccine approval and voting bounce the weekend’s other Johnson-Starmer ratings look t

Pulpstar said:

Casino_Royale said:

A tip for anyone moving to the countryside: never join the village WhatsApp group.

It is poison.

Animal poo seemed to be the most divisive topic when I lived back in Killamarsh.

kle4 said:

tlg86 said:

Casino_Royale said:

A tip for anyone moving to the countryside: never join the village WhatsApp group.

It is poison.

Apparently Facebook groups on new build developments are hilarious.

People have a poor understanding of how developments are approved, and local politicians even at parish level have a vested interest in over selling their ability to influence such developments, leading to a lot more anger and obsession than would already exist when things start, especially given some impacts that can arise, especially with crappy developers and poor infrastructure issues

RochdalePioneers said:

DavidL said:

Theuniondivvie said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Benpointer said:

Andy_JS said:

https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1371563480449486848

Good for him - some sane voices remain.

And yet to listen to the Brexiteers on here the EU/EMA are in charge and are dictating to all their stupidity. Which is true - except that it ISN'T. Member states are free to do as they see fit, which is why we have the contrasting polar opposites of Belgium jabbing away and Italy arresting the vaccine for witchcraft.

Have we reached the stage yet where Brexiteer ultras are arguing that the EU should be MORE centralised and integrated?

Does all this straw man nonsense make those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves? Apologies if I have missed it but I have not seen anyone on here say that this is all the fault of the EMA or that it should be. But carry on, I know its a bit embarrassing right now.

You wilfully miss the point. The EMA provides advice to the member states national health agencies who then make the national decision. There is no big bad EU dictating to members to stop using the Oxford jag - members are free to make their own decisions as they are.

That "the EU" keeps getting the blame is what is funny - it isn't the EU dictating to Italy to impound vials or Ireland to say "careful now" on national TV or Belgium to say "we're continuing with our vaccination programme".

MarqueeMark said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Since I’ve been assured that no one really wants Indyref2, presumably this is a massive tactical error by the EssEnnPee and should be welcomed by Unionists everywhere.

https://twitter.com/no1_nicola/status/1371737882759725058?s=21

Seems a good idea to me.

Whilst you can't sue on a Manifesto promise - can the SNP be sued if the don't deliver a pledge on a ballot slip? It is a much more direct contract....

Theuniondivvie said:

TOPPING said:

We've left, mate. Hundreds of words about the EU. Talk about Stockholm Syndrome.

In the Venn diagram of Brexiteers who despite the UK having left the EU seem compelled to post endlessly about the institution and Royalists who believe H&M are self-publicising narcissists who should be ignored yet seem compelled to post endlessly about their activities, I wonder how big a number would be in the intersection of those two sets?

Luckyguy1983 said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Since I’ve been assured that no one really wants Indyref2, presumably this is a massive tactical error by the EssEnnPee and should be welcomed by Unionists everywhere.

https://twitter.com/no1_nicola/status/1371737882759725058?s=21

Seems a good idea to me.

Charles said:

Benpointer said:

Charles said:

OldKingCole said:

Charles said:

alex_ said:

Pulpstar said:

TimT said:

Pulpstar said:

The actions of Ireland are bad enough - but hopefully it'll be a short pause till Thursday there (That's quite bad enough).
But the Italian police seizing 400,000 vaccines. Sweet Jesus christ

I hope they are maintaining the cold chain during seizure, transport and storage. Otherwise, that is 400k does down the drain.

I think that's precisely what will happen. Why seize them rather than just giving a pause on vaccinations like everywhere else that isn't quite as bonkers as Italy ?

Oh they've put in place a vaccine pause as well. Although that maybe as a consequence of the police seizure which means that any contrary action puts them all on the hook for mass murder (i'm not joking - that's how Italian prosecutors work). I doubt the police are working in concert with national government officials at all.

The head of the Italian regulators said overnight that the AstraZeneca vaccine is safe and the decision to suspend it was “political”

Just possibly, of course, there's a widespread lack of trust in us, the British.

I’m sorry but that is a fucking stupid answer. Even being a Europhile doesn’t justify that attitude from you, especially given your historical training. AstraZeneca’s vaccine is effective. AstraZeneca’s vaccine is safe. People will die if they don’t take it.

There is no way to justify the bullshit from the European politicians

Surely @OldKingCole is pointing out a possible cause of what appears to be a smear campaign in Europe against the AZ vaccine? He's not saying a lack of trust is justified. His suggestion may or may not be correct but it's hardly fair to class it as 'fucking stupid'.

What's your alternative explanation for the way the AZ vaccine has been singled out?

Politics, scapegoating and cowardice among politicians

DavidL said:

TOPPING said:

DavidL said:

TOPPING said:

DavidL said:

Theuniondivvie said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Benpointer said:

Andy_JS said:

https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1371563480449486848

Good for him - some sane voices remain.

And yet to listen to the Brexiteers on here the EU/EMA are in charge and are dictating to all their stupidity. Which is true - except that it ISN'T. Member states are free to do as they see fit, which is why we have the contrasting polar opposites of Belgium jabbing away and Italy arresting the vaccine for witchcraft.

Have we reached the stage yet where Brexiteer ultras are arguing that the EU should be MORE centralised and integrated?

Does all this straw man nonsense make those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves? Apologies if I have missed it but I have not seen anyone on here say that this is all the fault of the EMA or that it should be. But carry on, I know its a bit embarrassing right now.

Another one who has no confidence in the UK being able to do its own thing. As indeed it did over vaccines, given that we were nominally still EU members when the VTF was set up.

Do you lot understand nothing?

I know, you're embarrassed. I won't rub it in.

I'm embarrassed on your behalf. You think the UK would have been so craven as not to be able to stand up to the mighty EU when that is in effect exactly what happened.

Sure the EU were mega-dicks about much over the past few weeks but what consistently surprises me is the lack of confidence you Brexiters have over the UK's ability to forge its own path within or indeed outside EU membership. Perhaps it's only a PB thing.

You say you are a unionist. Then have some pride in what "your" country can achieve.

I have enormous pride in my country (whilst being fully conscious that our government can and will cock things up on a regular basis). It is why I voted to leave so we could make our own choices. Its why I am delighted that we have got the vaccine program right.

Remainers took a rather different view as demonstrated by the Guardian headline complaining that the UK would suffer more death because our government had chosen not to be a part of the European commissioning program but there we are.

I very much regret the way that Europe has behaved in respect of the vaccines, Brexit and NI. Even as a leaver I genuinely expected better. But I am very glad that we are no longer so concerned what Germany and France think, let alone the Commission. I am glad we left. I see opportunities in this mess to bring the UK together again but the cost in unnecessary deaths is more than I would have liked to pay. I genuinely hope that the EMA can persuade Member States to behave rationally today.

algarkirk said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Since I’ve been assured that no one really wants Indyref2, presumably this is a massive tactical error by the EssEnnPee and should be welcomed by Unionists everywhere.

https://twitter.com/no1_nicola/status/1371737882759725058?s=21

Seems a good idea to me.

Interesting and potentially game changing. Indications suggest there are lots of Scots who want an SNP Holyrood, and are on the side of independence but don't want a referendum at the moment. Call them Augustinians - they want chastity but not now. Some in truth will want (like many in the RoI about NI) a permanent and never met wish for its achievement in the indefinite future as they carry on spending English cash and relying on the Bank of England as the bank of mum and dad.

A change in title may persuade some to shift focus, either to Greens or to the unionist parties.

It might work. Changing the name of Labour to 'Labour and Tories are Scum' might work too, but I am doubtful.

RochdalePioneers said:

MaxPB said:

alex_ said:

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1371731974654717954?s=20

To his credit, Blair's motivation in all this is fairly clearly about protecting peace in Northern Ireland. There are too many more concerned with process and making assertions about "the UK/(occasionally EU) made its bed it can lie in it", whilst ignoring the fact that the stated purpose of the protocol is to protect the Good Friday agreement and Northern Ireland peace, not about winners or losers between the UK/EU. If the arrangements currently in place under the Protocol aren't working to the purpose intended (whether due to issues at the Irish border OR the Irish Sea border) then it is encumbent on both sides to adapt and be flexible to revise them.

(Legally) enforcing the agreement as written won't help it meet its purpose if it doesn't work.

You're right, of course, but the Irish border and NI peace has only ever been a useful tool for the EU to try and trap the UK into vassalage. That's the lens with which the EU views the border, how best to use it to hurt the UK, they clearly give no fucks about NI peace and ensuring separatists and loyalists are both content with the arrangements.

Ultimately they could have done away with the sea border entirely and just lived with a very small open border with the UK on the island of Ireland. Instead they chose this overly legalistic approach to create as much difficulty for the UK government as possible to extricate itself from the EU.

I don't understand the issues of NI, I've read some pieces from people who do we they all say that the NI protocol threatens the peace in NI so for that reason it either needs to be rewritten or just junked entirely. The last thing we need is a resurgence of bombs and people dying over a conflict that has been settled fir 20+ years.

So all the EU had to do was bin its long standing and pre-existing border rules to just have an open border with the outside world? Fine! Except that we left at least in part because of the EU's lax borders. We wanted to Take Back Control of our borders to stop forrin wandering in to steal our jobs and our wimmin. Can't do that with an open border can we?

"Ah, just don't allow them to work / claim benefits" I hear as a reply. Yes, thats call an illegal immigrant. The type that really wind gammoneers up the most. Your solution is to have an open door to undocumented illegals. Bravo.

TOPPING said:

DavidL said:

TOPPING said:

DavidL said:

Theuniondivvie said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Benpointer said:

Andy_JS said:

https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1371563480449486848

Good for him - some sane voices remain.

And yet to listen to the Brexiteers on here the EU/EMA are in charge and are dictating to all their stupidity. Which is true - except that it ISN'T. Member states are free to do as they see fit, which is why we have the contrasting polar opposites of Belgium jabbing away and Italy arresting the vaccine for witchcraft.

Have we reached the stage yet where Brexiteer ultras are arguing that the EU should be MORE centralised and integrated?

Does all this straw man nonsense make those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves? Apologies if I have missed it but I have not seen anyone on here say that this is all the fault of the EMA or that it should be. But carry on, I know its a bit embarrassing right now.

Another one who has no confidence in the UK being able to do its own thing. As indeed it did over vaccines, given that we were nominally still EU members when the VTF was set up.

Do you lot understand nothing?

I know, you're embarrassed. I won't rub it in.

I'm embarrassed on your behalf. You think the UK would have been so craven as not to be able to stand up to the mighty EU when that is in effect exactly what happened.

Sure the EU were mega-dicks about much over the past few weeks but what consistently surprises me is the lack of confidence you Brexiters have over the UK's ability to forge its own path within or indeed outside EU membership. Perhaps it's only a PB thing.

You say you are a unionist. Then have some pride in what "your" country can achieve.

Charles said:

Benpointer said:

Charles said:

OldKingCole said:

Charles said:

alex_ said:

Pulpstar said:

TimT said:

Pulpstar said:

The actions of Ireland are bad enough - but hopefully it'll be a short pause till Thursday there (That's quite bad enough).
But the Italian police seizing 400,000 vaccines. Sweet Jesus christ

I hope they are maintaining the cold chain during seizure, transport and storage. Otherwise, that is 400k does down the drain.

I think that's precisely what will happen. Why seize them rather than just giving a pause on vaccinations like everywhere else that isn't quite as bonkers as Italy ?

Oh they've put in place a vaccine pause as well. Although that maybe as a consequence of the police seizure which means that any contrary action puts them all on the hook for mass murder (i'm not joking - that's how Italian prosecutors work). I doubt the police are working in concert with national government officials at all.

The head of the Italian regulators said overnight that the AstraZeneca vaccine is safe and the decision to suspend it was “political”

Just possibly, of course, there's a widespread lack of trust in us, the British.

I’m sorry but that is a fucking stupid answer. Even being a Europhile doesn’t justify that attitude from you, especially given your historical training. AstraZeneca’s vaccine is effective. AstraZeneca’s vaccine is safe. People will die if they don’t take it.

There is no way to justify the bullshit from the European politicians

Surely @OldKingCole is pointing out a possible cause of what appears to be a smear campaign in Europe against the AZ vaccine? He's not saying a lack of trust is justified. His suggestion may or may not be correct but it's hardly fair to class it as 'fucking stupid'.

What's your alternative explanation for the way the AZ vaccine has been singled out?

Politics, scapegoating and cowardice among politicians

tlg86 said:

kle4 said:

tlg86 said:

Casino_Royale said:

A tip for anyone moving to the countryside: never join the village WhatsApp group.

It is poison.

Apparently Facebook groups on new build developments are hilarious.

People have a poor understanding of how developments are approved, and local politicians even at parish level have a vested interest in over selling their ability to influence such developments, leading to a lot more anger and obsession than would already exist when things start, especially given some impacts that can arise, especially with crappy developers and poor infrastructure issues

Sorry, I mean groups for the residents of the new developments. There tends to be all sorts of outrage.

TOPPING said:

MarqueeMark said:

TOPPING said:

MarqueeMark said:

kamski said:

MarqueeMark said:

kamski said:

MarqueeMark said:

kamski said:

MarqueeMark said:

DougSeal said:

https://twitter.com/BristOliver/status/1371564979023921162

"Ah, but", says the EU "blood clots...."

has the EU said blood clots though?

just as once the seeds of doubt were planted in AZ by their botched trials many delusional people start seeing anything that happens in the vicinity of AZ as being caused by AZ, there are so many posters on here who are so addicted to the paranoid delusional politics of grievance that they need to see EU anti-British plots everywhere.

The EU is acquiescing by silence to the madness running rampant across member states.

Thailand: "Hey, there might be a problem with....actually, no there isn't. As you were."

EU " .............................................................................................. "

So "the EU" hasn't said "blood clots", but most of your posts are just crap you've made up, so par for the course.

The EMA, which is surely the relevant EU body has actually said that vaccinations should continue.

So why is nobody in the EU pointing to the EMA and saying "This. Now get back to jabbing."?

It's because there's ANOTHER FUCKING AGENDA. Their initial mis-steps are being compounded by every next step they take. Just have the human decency, UvdL, to go in front of the media and say "So we go to it wrong on the AZ thing. It's actually great. It will save lots of lives across the EU." Instead, her actions are governed by not ever admitting failings in an EU system.

Von der Leyen may be a worse than useless idiot who should resign, but what has she got to do with the blood clot mess? precisely nothing in reality, but on Planet Brexit she has to be dragged into everything.

afaik she was demanding more doses of the vaccine. as usual your posts don't make any logical sense even on their own terms, let alone having any connection to reality.

Try this. The EU has a huge issue with self-importance. For example, it demands we take their "Ambassador". That we won't really grates with them.

We go through a messy divorce, a divorce that really, really hurts that sense of self importance. It has put back their Project. Worse still, at the first big post-divorce test of arm-wrestling, we don't so much smash their arm to the table, as rip it off and wave it around. The post-Brexit UK has really got under their skin. Unlike the vaccines. "We are the EU - how can we not be first in line for vaccines? Something must be done! Kneel down, suppliers, before our sense of entitlement."

So the EU tells a bit of a fib - that we are cheating on contracts to supply the UK first. See, it says here in the contracts... OK, so it doesn't. But they must still be cheating. They must be exporting what is rightly OUR stuff to get ahead of us. Jesus - the Brits have vaxxed HOW MANY? So we will put in place measures to ban it being exported. Hah! That will show them!"

"What "border down the middle of Ireland"? What "Good Friday Agreement"? Bollocks....well, say it was just an idea we were kicking around, it wasn't actually implemented....oh, it was implemented?. Bollocks."

"Thank you, Mr President, yes "quasi-ineffective", great line.... He does know we do actually WANT these vaccines doesn't he. Oh, really?....We don't? They don't work. Hmmm. You sure? Because the Brits are looking very healthy. The are even booking holidays...God, I'd love a holiday."

"It's OK, the EMA can get it back on tra....oh, nobody is listening to them? Nobody is listening to us? They have stopped using the AZ vaccine? What, even Germany? Especially Germany? Whilst the UK are continuing to - HOW FUCKING MANY? Jesus, at this rate the only people left alive in Europe are going to be the fucking over-fifty year old Brexiteers..."

"It is clear what Brussels needs. More power to end this shit show. No, I really DIDN'T start this shit show, thank you. For that, you can go and man a border post in Northern Ireland. Oh. Really? Burnt down, you say? Why? It was an entirely workable arrangement. JEEEEEZUS - "BBC: Boris Johnson has given everyone a jab with an Easter egg with his face on it"? Shameless. Fucking shameless.... So, tell me about this aid package of Sputnik jabs from Vladimir. What "gas pipeline"...?"

And so the EU soap ambles on a for few more episodes.

We've left, mate. Hundreds of words about the EU. Talk about Stockholm Syndrome.

Tell them we've left. The EU seem not to have accepted it. They re still trying to fuck over our vaccines like we are still in their club....

Petal. They are being dicks over it all but they are acting in what they perceive to be the best interests of themselves. And you have it exactly wrong: they are not behaving as if we are still in their club, they are behaving as if we are a third country.

TOPPING said:

RochdalePioneers said:

DavidL said:

Theuniondivvie said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Benpointer said:

Andy_JS said:

https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1371563480449486848

Good for him - some sane voices remain.

And yet to listen to the Brexiteers on here the EU/EMA are in charge and are dictating to all their stupidity. Which is true - except that it ISN'T. Member states are free to do as they see fit, which is why we have the contrasting polar opposites of Belgium jabbing away and Italy arresting the vaccine for witchcraft.

Have we reached the stage yet where Brexiteer ultras are arguing that the EU should be MORE centralised and integrated?

Does all this straw man nonsense make those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves? Apologies if I have missed it but I have not seen anyone on here say that this is all the fault of the EMA or that it should be. But carry on, I know its a bit embarrassing right now.

You wilfully miss the point. The EMA provides advice to the member states national health agencies who then make the national decision. There is no big bad EU dictating to members to stop using the Oxford jag - members are free to make their own decisions as they are.

That "the EU" keeps getting the blame is what is funny - it isn't the EU dictating to Italy to impound vials or Ireland to say "careful now" on national TV or Belgium to say "we're continuing with our vaccination programme".

It's extraordinary. We have a set of supposedly bright PB contributors, none of whom on the "EU monster" side get that very simple fact.

RochdalePioneers said:

MaxPB said:

alex_ said:

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1371731974654717954?s=20

To his credit, Blair's motivation in all this is fairly clearly about protecting peace in Northern Ireland. There are too many more concerned with process and making assertions about "the UK/(occasionally EU) made its bed it can lie in it", whilst ignoring the fact that the stated purpose of the protocol is to protect the Good Friday agreement and Northern Ireland peace, not about winners or losers between the UK/EU. If the arrangements currently in place under the Protocol aren't working to the purpose intended (whether due to issues at the Irish border OR the Irish Sea border) then it is encumbent on both sides to adapt and be flexible to revise them.

(Legally) enforcing the agreement as written won't help it meet its purpose if it doesn't work.

You're right, of course, but the Irish border and NI peace has only ever been a useful tool for the EU to try and trap the UK into vassalage. That's the lens with which the EU views the border, how best to use it to hurt the UK, they clearly give no fucks about NI peace and ensuring separatists and loyalists are both content with the arrangements.

Ultimately they could have done away with the sea border entirely and just lived with a very small open border with the UK on the island of Ireland. Instead they chose this overly legalistic approach to create as much difficulty for the UK government as possible to extricate itself from the EU.

I don't understand the issues of NI, I've read some pieces from people who do we they all say that the NI protocol threatens the peace in NI so for that reason it either needs to be rewritten or just junked entirely. The last thing we need is a resurgence of bombs and people dying over a conflict that has been settled fir 20+ years.

So all the EU had to do was bin its long standing and pre-existing border rules to just have an open border with the outside world? Fine! Except that we left at least in part because of the EU's lax borders. We wanted to Take Back Control of our borders to stop forrin wandering in to steal our jobs and our wimmin. Can't do that with an open border can we?

"Ah, just don't allow them to work / claim benefits" I hear as a reply. Yes, thats call an illegal immigrant. The type that really wind gammoneers up the most. Your solution is to have an open door to undocumented illegals. Bravo.

Casino_Royale said:

Sandpit said:

Casino_Royale said:

A tip for anyone moving to the countryside: never join the village WhatsApp group.

It is poison.

A tip for everyone. Don’t use WhatsApp, deleting it was the best thing I did last year.

Social media controls you. Not the other way round.

TOPPING said:

RochdalePioneers said:

DavidL said:

Theuniondivvie said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Benpointer said:

Andy_JS said:

https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1371563480449486848

Good for him - some sane voices remain.

And yet to listen to the Brexiteers on here the EU/EMA are in charge and are dictating to all their stupidity. Which is true - except that it ISN'T. Member states are free to do as they see fit, which is why we have the contrasting polar opposites of Belgium jabbing away and Italy arresting the vaccine for witchcraft.

Have we reached the stage yet where Brexiteer ultras are arguing that the EU should be MORE centralised and integrated?

Does all this straw man nonsense make those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves? Apologies if I have missed it but I have not seen anyone on here say that this is all the fault of the EMA or that it should be. But carry on, I know its a bit embarrassing right now.

You wilfully miss the point. The EMA provides advice to the member states national health agencies who then make the national decision. There is no big bad EU dictating to members to stop using the Oxford jag - members are free to make their own decisions as they are.

That "the EU" keeps getting the blame is what is funny - it isn't the EU dictating to Italy to impound vials or Ireland to say "careful now" on national TV or Belgium to say "we're continuing with our vaccination programme".

It's extraordinary. We have a set of supposedly bright PB contributors, none of whom on the "EU monster" side get that very simple fact.

TOPPING said:

RochdalePioneers said:

DavidL said:

Theuniondivvie said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Benpointer said:

Andy_JS said:

https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1371563480449486848

Good for him - some sane voices remain.

And yet to listen to the Brexiteers on here the EU/EMA are in charge and are dictating to all their stupidity. Which is true - except that it ISN'T. Member states are free to do as they see fit, which is why we have the contrasting polar opposites of Belgium jabbing away and Italy arresting the vaccine for witchcraft.

Have we reached the stage yet where Brexiteer ultras are arguing that the EU should be MORE centralised and integrated?

Does all this straw man nonsense make those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves? Apologies if I have missed it but I have not seen anyone on here say that this is all the fault of the EMA or that it should be. But carry on, I know its a bit embarrassing right now.

You wilfully miss the point. The EMA provides advice to the member states national health agencies who then make the national decision. There is no big bad EU dictating to members to stop using the Oxford jag - members are free to make their own decisions as they are.

That "the EU" keeps getting the blame is what is funny - it isn't the EU dictating to Italy to impound vials or Ireland to say "careful now" on national TV or Belgium to say "we're continuing with our vaccination programme".

It's extraordinary. We have a set of supposedly bright PB contributors, none of whom on the "EU monster" side get that very simple fact.

swing_voter said:

RochdalePioneers said:

With apologies for a Scottish newspaper link to a Manchester story: http://www.heraldscotland.com/business_hq/19162548.stagecoach-launches-bid-halt-bus-franchising-manchester/?ref=appshr

Andy Burnham wants to regain control over Greater Manchester bus services - timetables, frequency, fares. Stagecoach are objecting, which considering their near monopoly in southern Manchester for 25 years isn't a surprise.

Bus deregulation has in so many places led to private monopolies where the operator can do what they like with no option from local authorities to do anything about it. Labour could have changed this in government but decided not to.

to be fair, it has been 11 years since the last Labour government.....

RochdalePioneers said:

TOPPING said:

DavidL said:

TOPPING said:

DavidL said:

Theuniondivvie said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Benpointer said:

Andy_JS said:

https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1371563480449486848

Good for him - some sane voices remain.

And yet to listen to the Brexiteers on here the EU/EMA are in charge and are dictating to all their stupidity. Which is true - except that it ISN'T. Member states are free to do as they see fit, which is why we have the contrasting polar opposites of Belgium jabbing away and Italy arresting the vaccine for witchcraft.

Have we reached the stage yet where Brexiteer ultras are arguing that the EU should be MORE centralised and integrated?

Does all this straw man nonsense make those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves? Apologies if I have missed it but I have not seen anyone on here say that this is all the fault of the EMA or that it should be. But carry on, I know its a bit embarrassing right now.

Another one who has no confidence in the UK being able to do its own thing. As indeed it did over vaccines, given that we were nominally still EU members when the VTF was set up.

Do you lot understand nothing?

I know, you're embarrassed. I won't rub it in.

I'm embarrassed on your behalf. You think the UK would have been so craven as not to be able to stand up to the mighty EU when that is in effect exactly what happened.

Sure the EU were mega-dicks about much over the past few weeks but what consistently surprises me is the lack of confidence you Brexiters have over the UK's ability to forge its own path within or indeed outside EU membership. Perhaps it's only a PB thing.

You say you are a unionist. Then have some pride in what "your" country can achieve.

Its baffling.
WE HAD TO LEAVE THE EU TO GET A VACCINE. Developed whilst in the transition period using EU laws and explicitly wouldn't have been delayed/blocked by EU membership according to the regulator who personally signed it off. Have we still had enough of experts?
EU DICTATES TO STOP USING JAG TO KILL PEOPLE TO SPIKE UK. Despite national health agencies having the absolute say in what happens in their own state as we did and Belgium / Sweden etc are openly doing.

I get it. We don't like being dictated to by unelected political appointees we can't get rid of like Carrie Symonds Dominic Cummings Ursula Von der Leyen. So we have to maintain the narrative of the Big Bad EU even if only to distract from our own cataclysmic fuck ups.

TOPPING said:

MarqueeMark said:

TOPPING said:

MarqueeMark said:

kamski said:

MarqueeMark said:

kamski said:

MarqueeMark said:

kamski said:

MarqueeMark said:

DougSeal said:

https://twitter.com/BristOliver/status/1371564979023921162

"Ah, but", says the EU "blood clots...."

has the EU said blood clots though?

just as once the seeds of doubt were planted in AZ by their botched trials many delusional people start seeing anything that happens in the vicinity of AZ as being caused by AZ, there are so many posters on here who are so addicted to the paranoid delusional politics of grievance that they need to see EU anti-British plots everywhere.

The EU is acquiescing by silence to the madness running rampant across member states.

Thailand: "Hey, there might be a problem with....actually, no there isn't. As you were."

EU " .............................................................................................. "

So "the EU" hasn't said "blood clots", but most of your posts are just crap you've made up, so par for the course.

The EMA, which is surely the relevant EU body has actually said that vaccinations should continue.

So why is nobody in the EU pointing to the EMA and saying "This. Now get back to jabbing."?

It's because there's ANOTHER FUCKING AGENDA. Their initial mis-steps are being compounded by every next step they take. Just have the human decency, UvdL, to go in front of the media and say "So we go to it wrong on the AZ thing. It's actually great. It will save lots of lives across the EU." Instead, her actions are governed by not ever admitting failings in an EU system.

Von der Leyen may be a worse than useless idiot who should resign, but what has she got to do with the blood clot mess? precisely nothing in reality, but on Planet Brexit she has to be dragged into everything.

afaik she was demanding more doses of the vaccine. as usual your posts don't make any logical sense even on their own terms, let alone having any connection to reality.

Try this. The EU has a huge issue with self-importance. For example, it demands we take their "Ambassador". That we won't really grates with them.

We go through a messy divorce, a divorce that really, really hurts that sense of self importance. It has put back their Project. Worse still, at the first big post-divorce test of arm-wrestling, we don't so much smash their arm to the table, as rip it off and wave it around. The post-Brexit UK has really got under their skin. Unlike the vaccines. "We are the EU - how can we not be first in line for vaccines? Something must be done! Kneel down, suppliers, before our sense of entitlement."

So the EU tells a bit of a fib - that we are cheating on contracts to supply the UK first. See, it says here in the contracts... OK, so it doesn't. But they must still be cheating. They must be exporting what is rightly OUR stuff to get ahead of us. Jesus - the Brits have vaxxed HOW MANY? So we will put in place measures to ban it being exported. Hah! That will show them!"

"What "border down the middle of Ireland"? What "Good Friday Agreement"? Bollocks....well, say it was just an idea we were kicking around, it wasn't actually implemented....oh, it was implemented?. Bollocks."

"Thank you, Mr President, yes "quasi-ineffective", great line.... He does know we do actually WANT these vaccines doesn't he. Oh, really?....We don't? They don't work. Hmmm. You sure? Because the Brits are looking very healthy. The are even booking holidays...God, I'd love a holiday."

"It's OK, the EMA can get it back on tra....oh, nobody is listening to them? Nobody is listening to us? They have stopped using the AZ vaccine? What, even Germany? Especially Germany? Whilst the UK are continuing to - HOW FUCKING MANY? Jesus, at this rate the only people left alive in Europe are going to be the fucking over-fifty year old Brexiteers..."

"It is clear what Brussels needs. More power to end this shit show. No, I really DIDN'T start this shit show, thank you. For that, you can go and man a border post in Northern Ireland. Oh. Really? Burnt down, you say? Why? It was an entirely workable arrangement. JEEEEEZUS - "BBC: Boris Johnson has given everyone a jab with an Easter egg with his face on it"? Shameless. Fucking shameless.... So, tell me about this aid package of Sputnik jabs from Vladimir. What "gas pipeline"...?"

And so the EU soap ambles on a for few more episodes.

We've left, mate. Hundreds of words about the EU. Talk about Stockholm Syndrome.

Tell them we've left. The EU seem not to have accepted it. They re still trying to fuck over our vaccines like we are still in their club....

Petal. They are being dicks over it all but they are acting in what they perceive to be the best interests of themselves. And you have it exactly wrong: they are not behaving as if we are still in their club, they are behaving as if we are a third country.

Gallowgate said:

Sandpit said:

Casino_Royale said:

A tip for anyone moving to the countryside: never join the village WhatsApp group.

It is poison.

A tip for everyone. Don’t use WhatsApp, deleting it was the best thing I did last year.

I mean, I use WhatsApp and other similar apps to keep in contact with my mates. Be it comments on politics, music, organising Zoom calls, or Newcastle United's woes. My life would be significantly worse without it.

HYUFD said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Since I’ve been assured that no one really wants Indyref2, presumably this is a massive tactical error by the EssEnnPee and should be welcomed by Unionists everywhere.

https://twitter.com/no1_nicola/status/1371737882759725058?s=21

If the SNP do stand as 'SNP Indyref2' then it may well put off a few voters who are happy to keep Sturgeon as FM but do not want indyref2 anytime soon.

In any case the decision on any meaningful indyref2 will remain with Westminster regardless

kamski said:

TOPPING said:

RochdalePioneers said:

DavidL said:

Theuniondivvie said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Benpointer said:

Andy_JS said:

https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1371563480449486848

Good for him - some sane voices remain.

And yet to listen to the Brexiteers on here the EU/EMA are in charge and are dictating to all their stupidity. Which is true - except that it ISN'T. Member states are free to do as they see fit, which is why we have the contrasting polar opposites of Belgium jabbing away and Italy arresting the vaccine for witchcraft.

Have we reached the stage yet where Brexiteer ultras are arguing that the EU should be MORE centralised and integrated?

Does all this straw man nonsense make those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves? Apologies if I have missed it but I have not seen anyone on here say that this is all the fault of the EMA or that it should be. But carry on, I know its a bit embarrassing right now.

You wilfully miss the point. The EMA provides advice to the member states national health agencies who then make the national decision. There is no big bad EU dictating to members to stop using the Oxford jag - members are free to make their own decisions as they are.

That "the EU" keeps getting the blame is what is funny - it isn't the EU dictating to Italy to impound vials or Ireland to say "careful now" on national TV or Belgium to say "we're continuing with our vaccination programme".

It's extraordinary. We have a set of supposedly bright PB contributors, none of whom on the "EU monster" side get that very simple fact.

There is plenty to criticise the EU, and indeed EU member states (and the UK too for that matter), over the rubbish handling of the pandemic without flying off into complete irrationality.

It's like the other day, when someone was blaming von der Leyen for EU countries giving less than the UK in overseas aid. Despite the facts that
- it's not in her power
- when the UK was an actual EU country it was giving 0.7% and now it's left it wants to drop it to 0.5%

Logical thinking flies out the window as soon as Europe is mentioned. It's a bit like the US Republicans who are reflexively against anything if they think the "Liberals" are in favour of it.

Theuniondivvie said:

HYUFD said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Since I’ve been assured that no one really wants Indyref2, presumably this is a massive tactical error by the EssEnnPee and should be welcomed by Unionists everywhere.

https://twitter.com/no1_nicola/status/1371737882759725058?s=21

If the SNP do stand as 'SNP Indyref2' then it may well put off a few voters who are happy to keep Sturgeon as FM but do not want indyref2 anytime soon.

In any case the decision on any meaningful indyref2 will remain with Westminster regardless

Big 'worried the SNP will get a majority on an explicit promise of Indyref2' energy.

DavidL said:

RochdalePioneers said:

DavidL said:

Theuniondivvie said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Benpointer said:

Andy_JS said:

https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1371563480449486848

Good for him - some sane voices remain.

And yet to listen to the Brexiteers on here the EU/EMA are in charge and are dictating to all their stupidity. Which is true - except that it ISN'T. Member states are free to do as they see fit, which is why we have the contrasting polar opposites of Belgium jabbing away and Italy arresting the vaccine for witchcraft.

Have we reached the stage yet where Brexiteer ultras are arguing that the EU should be MORE centralised and integrated?

Does all this straw man nonsense make those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves? Apologies if I have missed it but I have not seen anyone on here say that this is all the fault of the EMA or that it should be. But carry on, I know its a bit embarrassing right now.

You wilfully miss the point. The EMA provides advice to the member states national health agencies who then make the national decision. There is no big bad EU dictating to members to stop using the Oxford jag - members are free to make their own decisions as they are.

That "the EU" keeps getting the blame is what is funny - it isn't the EU dictating to Italy to impound vials or Ireland to say "careful now" on national TV or Belgium to say "we're continuing with our vaccination programme".

No one is saying that it is. No one.

The EU did start the row with AZ through UvdL's idiocy and inability to read a contract. They completely screwed up the commissioning process. The EMA took longer than they should have to approve AZ and certainly added to the "second best" vibe that had already started with their uncertainty about its suitability for older age groups.

But no one is pretending that the current decisions of Germany, France, Italy, Spain and others are the responsibility of anyone but their respective governments. Why do you feel the need to create straw men and straw arguments? I repeat, if the EMA can bring sanity back to these countries' policies I would welcome it. But it will remain the decision of those countries what goes in their citizens arms.

DavidL said:

RochdalePioneers said:

DavidL said:

Theuniondivvie said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Benpointer said:

Andy_JS said:

https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1371563480449486848

Good for him - some sane voices remain.

And yet to listen to the Brexiteers on here the EU/EMA are in charge and are dictating to all their stupidity. Which is true - except that it ISN'T. Member states are free to do as they see fit, which is why we have the contrasting polar opposites of Belgium jabbing away and Italy arresting the vaccine for witchcraft.

Have we reached the stage yet where Brexiteer ultras are arguing that the EU should be MORE centralised and integrated?

Does all this straw man nonsense make those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves? Apologies if I have missed it but I have not seen anyone on here say that this is all the fault of the EMA or that it should be. But carry on, I know its a bit embarrassing right now.

You wilfully miss the point. The EMA provides advice to the member states national health agencies who then make the national decision. There is no big bad EU dictating to members to stop using the Oxford jag - members are free to make their own decisions as they are.

That "the EU" keeps getting the blame is what is funny - it isn't the EU dictating to Italy to impound vials or Ireland to say "careful now" on national TV or Belgium to say "we're continuing with our vaccination programme".

No one is saying that it is. No one.

algarkirk said:

MattW said:

algarkirk said:

alex_ said:

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1371731974654717954?s=20

To his credit, Blair's motivation in all this is fairly clearly about protecting peace in Northern Ireland. There are too many more concerned with process and making assertions about "the UK/(occasionally EU) made its bed it can lie in it", whilst ignoring the fact that the stated purpose of the protocol is to protect the Good Friday agreement and Northern Ireland peace, not about winners or losers between the UK/EU. If the arrangements currently in place under the Protocol aren't working to the purpose intended (whether due to issues at the Irish border OR the Irish Sea border) then it is encumbent on both sides to adapt and be flexible to revise them.

(Legally) enforcing the agreement as written won't help it meet its purpose if it doesn't work.

At the heart of the Blair proposal is equivalence agreement on SPS - ag/food.
Much of the rest of it is the sentiment that politicians ought to play more nicely; good luck and all that.

The question is whether equivalence on SPS crosses a red lines or lines, and whose. Ireland cannot be resolved until some of NI, RoI, UK and EU alter their red lines, as the present agreement (which is an elaborate ruse) is the best that can be done within them.

What impact, for example, does SPS have on UK use of GM or GE food if we wish to adopt a more reasoned position than the EU effective outright ban on GM production?

What on standards about the ban on cruel production such as traditional Foie Gras?

Yes. To do that either EU or UK red lines have to move. Once you allow red lines to move then of course everyone else's suggestions for red line moving are up for grabs.

What is politically fascinating is that the island of Ireland presents an immovable object/irresistible force problem and has done from day 1 of Brexit and all parties are still dancing around it. No side dares admit there is no solution within current configurations.

Benpointer said:

HYUFD said:

https://twitter.com/LeaveEUOfficial/status/1371745317343870977?s=20

Lol! Right up your street Corporal HYUFD! 😂

TOPPING said:

DavidL said:

RochdalePioneers said:

DavidL said:

Theuniondivvie said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Benpointer said:

Andy_JS said:

https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1371563480449486848

Good for him - some sane voices remain.

And yet to listen to the Brexiteers on here the EU/EMA are in charge and are dictating to all their stupidity. Which is true - except that it ISN'T. Member states are free to do as they see fit, which is why we have the contrasting polar opposites of Belgium jabbing away and Italy arresting the vaccine for witchcraft.

Have we reached the stage yet where Brexiteer ultras are arguing that the EU should be MORE centralised and integrated?

Does all this straw man nonsense make those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves? Apologies if I have missed it but I have not seen anyone on here say that this is all the fault of the EMA or that it should be. But carry on, I know its a bit embarrassing right now.

You wilfully miss the point. The EMA provides advice to the member states national health agencies who then make the national decision. There is no big bad EU dictating to members to stop using the Oxford jag - members are free to make their own decisions as they are.

That "the EU" keeps getting the blame is what is funny - it isn't the EU dictating to Italy to impound vials or Ireland to say "careful now" on national TV or Belgium to say "we're continuing with our vaccination programme".

No one is saying that it is. No one.

The EU did start the row with AZ through UvdL's idiocy and inability to read a contract. They completely screwed up the commissioning process. The EMA took longer than they should have to approve AZ and certainly added to the "second best" vibe that had already started with their uncertainty about its suitability for older age groups.

But no one is pretending that the current decisions of Germany, France, Italy, Spain and others are the responsibility of anyone but their respective governments. Why do you feel the need to create straw men and straw arguments? I repeat, if the EMA can bring sanity back to these countries' policies I would welcome it. But it will remain the decision of those countries what goes in their citizens arms.

David give me a break. "No one is saying that it is".

Literally everyone on here who has a stated view on this elides the EU and EU Member States. They start from UvdL and the AZN contract and end up blaming "the EU" for Belgium deciding to continue using the vaccine.

You yourself idly wondered if this episode (sovereign nations deciding on their own vaccine policy) would make "those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves".

RochdalePioneers said:

DavidL said:

RochdalePioneers said:

DavidL said:

Theuniondivvie said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Benpointer said:

Andy_JS said:

https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1371563480449486848

Good for him - some sane voices remain.

And yet to listen to the Brexiteers on here the EU/EMA are in charge and are dictating to all their stupidity. Which is true - except that it ISN'T. Member states are free to do as they see fit, which is why we have the contrasting polar opposites of Belgium jabbing away and Italy arresting the vaccine for witchcraft.

Have we reached the stage yet where Brexiteer ultras are arguing that the EU should be MORE centralised and integrated?

Does all this straw man nonsense make those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves? Apologies if I have missed it but I have not seen anyone on here say that this is all the fault of the EMA or that it should be. But carry on, I know its a bit embarrassing right now.

You wilfully miss the point. The EMA provides advice to the member states national health agencies who then make the national decision. There is no big bad EU dictating to members to stop using the Oxford jag - members are free to make their own decisions as they are.

That "the EU" keeps getting the blame is what is funny - it isn't the EU dictating to Italy to impound vials or Ireland to say "careful now" on national TV or Belgium to say "we're continuing with our vaccination programme".

No one is saying that it is. No one.

You are literally foaming on about how we no longer have to listen to the opinions of Germany and France. When it comes to healthcare provision in a pandemic NOBODY need listen to them including neighbouring Belgium and Italy. You keep mentioning the EMA - what about it? The EMA didn't prevent us from creating the VTF, didn't prevent the Italians finding satan in glass vials, didn't prevent the Belgians scratching their heads and continuing to vaccinate.

The EU is not the Big Bad. It is not dictating to members. If Germany wants to be stupid thats up to Germany. But it isn't directing the Italians to be insane.

Gardenwalker said:

This post from Keir is quite crap.
“Over 50%” is weird. And who is saying that it is a “rare occurrence”?

https://twitter.com/keir_starmer/status/1371732944394539010?s=21

RobD said:

TOPPING said:

DavidL said:

RochdalePioneers said:

DavidL said:

Theuniondivvie said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Benpointer said:

Andy_JS said:

https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1371563480449486848

Good for him - some sane voices remain.

And yet to listen to the Brexiteers on here the EU/EMA are in charge and are dictating to all their stupidity. Which is true - except that it ISN'T. Member states are free to do as they see fit, which is why we have the contrasting polar opposites of Belgium jabbing away and Italy arresting the vaccine for witchcraft.

Have we reached the stage yet where Brexiteer ultras are arguing that the EU should be MORE centralised and integrated?

Does all this straw man nonsense make those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves? Apologies if I have missed it but I have not seen anyone on here say that this is all the fault of the EMA or that it should be. But carry on, I know its a bit embarrassing right now.

You wilfully miss the point. The EMA provides advice to the member states national health agencies who then make the national decision. There is no big bad EU dictating to members to stop using the Oxford jag - members are free to make their own decisions as they are.

That "the EU" keeps getting the blame is what is funny - it isn't the EU dictating to Italy to impound vials or Ireland to say "careful now" on national TV or Belgium to say "we're continuing with our vaccination programme".

No one is saying that it is. No one.

The EU did start the row with AZ through UvdL's idiocy and inability to read a contract. They completely screwed up the commissioning process. The EMA took longer than they should have to approve AZ and certainly added to the "second best" vibe that had already started with their uncertainty about its suitability for older age groups.

But no one is pretending that the current decisions of Germany, France, Italy, Spain and others are the responsibility of anyone but their respective governments. Why do you feel the need to create straw men and straw arguments? I repeat, if the EMA can bring sanity back to these countries' policies I would welcome it. But it will remain the decision of those countries what goes in their citizens arms.

David give me a break. "No one is saying that it is".

Literally everyone on here who has a stated view on this elides the EU and EU Member States. They start from UvdL and the AZN contract and end up blaming "the EU" for Belgium deciding to continue using the vaccine.

You yourself idly wondered if this episode (sovereign nations deciding on their own vaccine policy) would make "those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves".

I am wondering why, after waiting so long for the EMA to make a decision on various vaccines, the various countries that have it as their regulator decide to just ignore them.

noneoftheabove said:

RobD said:

TOPPING said:

DavidL said:

RochdalePioneers said:

DavidL said:

Theuniondivvie said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Benpointer said:

Andy_JS said:

https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1371563480449486848

Good for him - some sane voices remain.

And yet to listen to the Brexiteers on here the EU/EMA are in charge and are dictating to all their stupidity. Which is true - except that it ISN'T. Member states are free to do as they see fit, which is why we have the contrasting polar opposites of Belgium jabbing away and Italy arresting the vaccine for witchcraft.

Have we reached the stage yet where Brexiteer ultras are arguing that the EU should be MORE centralised and integrated?

Does all this straw man nonsense make those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves? Apologies if I have missed it but I have not seen anyone on here say that this is all the fault of the EMA or that it should be. But carry on, I know its a bit embarrassing right now.

You wilfully miss the point. The EMA provides advice to the member states national health agencies who then make the national decision. There is no big bad EU dictating to members to stop using the Oxford jag - members are free to make their own decisions as they are.

That "the EU" keeps getting the blame is what is funny - it isn't the EU dictating to Italy to impound vials or Ireland to say "careful now" on national TV or Belgium to say "we're continuing with our vaccination programme".

No one is saying that it is. No one.

The EU did start the row with AZ through UvdL's idiocy and inability to read a contract. They completely screwed up the commissioning process. The EMA took longer than they should have to approve AZ and certainly added to the "second best" vibe that had already started with their uncertainty about its suitability for older age groups.

But no one is pretending that the current decisions of Germany, France, Italy, Spain and others are the responsibility of anyone but their respective governments. Why do you feel the need to create straw men and straw arguments? I repeat, if the EMA can bring sanity back to these countries' policies I would welcome it. But it will remain the decision of those countries what goes in their citizens arms.

David give me a break. "No one is saying that it is".

Literally everyone on here who has a stated view on this elides the EU and EU Member States. They start from UvdL and the AZN contract and end up blaming "the EU" for Belgium deciding to continue using the vaccine.

You yourself idly wondered if this episode (sovereign nations deciding on their own vaccine policy) would make "those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves".

I am wondering why, after waiting so long for the EMA to make a decision on various vaccines, the various countries that have it as their regulator decide to just ignore them.

It is a crazy system, the planet does not need 200 odd national medical authorities. I wonder whats the biggest country that just relies on either the WHO or other big regulators to decide for them.

DavidL said:

Gardenwalker said:

This post from Keir is quite crap.
“Over 50%” is weird. And who is saying that it is a “rare occurrence”?

https://twitter.com/keir_starmer/status/1371732944394539010?s=21

I am about 95% sure that is not true either. Far more men suffer violence than women. Of course far, far more of the perpetrators of violence are men but that is a different statement.

Gardenwalker said:

This post from Keir is quite crap.
“Over 50%” is weird. And who is saying that it is a “rare occurrence”?

https://twitter.com/keir_starmer/status/1371732944394539010?s=21

RochdalePioneers said:

DavidL said:

Theuniondivvie said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Benpointer said:

Andy_JS said:

https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1371563480449486848

Good for him - some sane voices remain.

And yet to listen to the Brexiteers on here the EU/EMA are in charge and are dictating to all their stupidity. Which is true - except that it ISN'T. Member states are free to do as they see fit, which is why we have the contrasting polar opposites of Belgium jabbing away and Italy arresting the vaccine for witchcraft.

Have we reached the stage yet where Brexiteer ultras are arguing that the EU should be MORE centralised and integrated?

Does all this straw man nonsense make those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves? Apologies if I have missed it but I have not seen anyone on here say that this is all the fault of the EMA or that it should be. But carry on, I know its a bit embarrassing right now.

You wilfully miss the point. The EMA provides advice to the member states national health agencies who then make the national decision. There is no big bad EU dictating to members to stop using the Oxford jag - members are free to make their own decisions as they are.

That "the EU" keeps getting the blame is what is funny - it isn't the EU dictating to Italy to impound vials or Ireland to say "careful now" on national TV or Belgium to say "we're continuing with our vaccination programme".

Slackbladder said:

Gardenwalker said:

This post from Keir is quite crap.
“Over 50%” is weird. And who is saying that it is a “rare occurrence”?

https://twitter.com/keir_starmer/status/1371732944394539010?s=21

I'll tell you what else was 'over 50%'

52%

DavidL said:

Gardenwalker said:

This post from Keir is quite crap.
“Over 50%” is weird. And who is saying that it is a “rare occurrence”?

https://twitter.com/keir_starmer/status/1371732944394539010?s=21

I am about 95% sure that is not true either. Far more men suffer violence than women. Of course far, far more of the perpetrators of violence are men but that is a different statement.

MaxPB said:

TOPPING said:

RobD said:

TOPPING said:

DavidL said:

RochdalePioneers said:

DavidL said:

Theuniondivvie said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Benpointer said:

Andy_JS said:

https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1371563480449486848

Good for him - some sane voices remain.

And yet to listen to the Brexiteers on here the EU/EMA are in charge and are dictating to all their stupidity. Which is true - except that it ISN'T. Member states are free to do as they see fit, which is why we have the contrasting polar opposites of Belgium jabbing away and Italy arresting the vaccine for witchcraft.

Have we reached the stage yet where Brexiteer ultras are arguing that the EU should be MORE centralised and integrated?

Does all this straw man nonsense make those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves? Apologies if I have missed it but I have not seen anyone on here say that this is all the fault of the EMA or that it should be. But carry on, I know its a bit embarrassing right now.

You wilfully miss the point. The EMA provides advice to the member states national health agencies who then make the national decision. There is no big bad EU dictating to members to stop using the Oxford jag - members are free to make their own decisions as they are.

That "the EU" keeps getting the blame is what is funny - it isn't the EU dictating to Italy to impound vials or Ireland to say "careful now" on national TV or Belgium to say "we're continuing with our vaccination programme".

No one is saying that it is. No one.

The EU did start the row with AZ through UvdL's idiocy and inability to read a contract. They completely screwed up the commissioning process. The EMA took longer than they should have to approve AZ and certainly added to the "second best" vibe that had already started with their uncertainty about its suitability for older age groups.

But no one is pretending that the current decisions of Germany, France, Italy, Spain and others are the responsibility of anyone but their respective governments. Why do you feel the need to create straw men and straw arguments? I repeat, if the EMA can bring sanity back to these countries' policies I would welcome it. But it will remain the decision of those countries what goes in their citizens arms.

David give me a break. "No one is saying that it is".

Literally everyone on here who has a stated view on this elides the EU and EU Member States. They start from UvdL and the AZN contract and end up blaming "the EU" for Belgium deciding to continue using the vaccine.

You yourself idly wondered if this episode (sovereign nations deciding on their own vaccine policy) would make "those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves".

I am wondering why, after waiting so long for the EMA to make a decision on various vaccines, the various countries that have it as their regulator decide to just ignore them.

Sovereignty?

There is another element to this. Up until Brexit, the MHRA was the de facto EU vaccine regulator and expert. Had we still been members then all the good stuff which we did (eg rolling review, etc) would likely have been utilised by "the EU" also (ie by other Member State regulatory bodies).

So there is a theory that our leaving the EU fucked them. I know people will point out the vaccine expertise of other Member States regulatory bodies but the MHRA was the acknowledged leader in the vaccine field and informed, pre-Brexit, just about all EU vaccine policy.

We offered them medicines regulatory mutual recognition, they declined. 🤷‍♂️

kamski said:

Philip_Thompson said:

RochdalePioneers said:

DavidL said:

RochdalePioneers said:

DavidL said:

Theuniondivvie said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Benpointer said:

Andy_JS said:

https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1371563480449486848

Good for him - some sane voices remain.

And yet to listen to the Brexiteers on here the EU/EMA are in charge and are dictating to all their stupidity. Which is true - except that it ISN'T. Member states are free to do as they see fit, which is why we have the contrasting polar opposites of Belgium jabbing away and Italy arresting the vaccine for witchcraft.

Have we reached the stage yet where Brexiteer ultras are arguing that the EU should be MORE centralised and integrated?

Does all this straw man nonsense make those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves? Apologies if I have missed it but I have not seen anyone on here say that this is all the fault of the EMA or that it should be. But carry on, I know its a bit embarrassing right now.

You wilfully miss the point. The EMA provides advice to the member states national health agencies who then make the national decision. There is no big bad EU dictating to members to stop using the Oxford jag - members are free to make their own decisions as they are.

That "the EU" keeps getting the blame is what is funny - it isn't the EU dictating to Italy to impound vials or Ireland to say "careful now" on national TV or Belgium to say "we're continuing with our vaccination programme".

No one is saying that it is. No one.

You are literally foaming on about how we no longer have to listen to the opinions of Germany and France. When it comes to healthcare provision in a pandemic NOBODY need listen to them including neighbouring Belgium and Italy. You keep mentioning the EMA - what about it? The EMA didn't prevent us from creating the VTF, didn't prevent the Italians finding satan in glass vials, didn't prevent the Belgians scratching their heads and continuing to vaccinate.

The EU is not the Big Bad. It is not dictating to members. If Germany wants to be stupid thats up to Germany. But it isn't directing the Italians to be insane.

No you're not entirely right.

The EU haven't made this decision but they have laid the groundwork for it by like an arsonist undermining the Astrazeneca vaccine months ago - and then their obsession they encourage of "unity" and "solidarity" between members such that when Germany acts France may not be obliged technically to follow but they feel compelled to.

The EU started this months ago when they went to war with Astrazeneca in a very public and silly manner. They may not be the ones acting today but others are following in their footsteps, actions have consequences.

Hmmm, the EU demanded MORE doses in a very public and silly manner.

Stocky said:

DavidL said:

Gardenwalker said:

This post from Keir is quite crap.
“Over 50%” is weird. And who is saying that it is a “rare occurrence”?

https://twitter.com/keir_starmer/status/1371732944394539010?s=21

I am about 95% sure that is not true either. Far more men suffer violence than women. Of course far, far more of the perpetrators of violence are men but that is a different statement.

I agree, but could Starmer be referring to reported figures - could that justify his statement>?

Philip_Thompson said:

CarlottaVance said:

twitter.com/ONS/status/1371756266813591555?s=20

Interesting the relatively high rate of antibodies among the young (esp England) - presumably from infection, not vaccination, like the older cohorts.

In part but not entirely.

Don't forget about 1/5 of all under 65 age groups have been done for having pre-existing conditions like diabetes etc - that applies to the young too.

HYUFD said:

https://twitter.com/LeaveEUOfficial/status/1371745317343870977?s=20