A tip for anyone moving to the countryside: never join the village WhatsApp group.
It is poison.
Apparently Facebook groups on new build developments are hilarious.
People have a poor understanding of how developments are approved, and local politicians even at parish level have a vested interest in over selling their ability to influence such developments, leading to a lot more anger and obsession than would already exist when things start, especially given some impacts that can arise, especially with crappy developers and poor infrastructure issues
Sorry, I mean groups for the residents of the new developments. There tends to be all sorts of outrage.
just as once the seeds of doubt were planted in AZ by their botched trials many delusional people start seeing anything that happens in the vicinity of AZ as being caused by AZ, there are so many posters on here who are so addicted to the paranoid delusional politics of grievance that they need to see EU anti-British plots everywhere.
The EU is acquiescing by silence to the madness running rampant across member states.
Thailand: "Hey, there might be a problem with....actually, no there isn't. As you were."
EU " .............................................................................................. "
So "the EU" hasn't said "blood clots", but most of your posts are just crap you've made up, so par for the course.
The EMA, which is surely the relevant EU body has actually said that vaccinations should continue.
So why is nobody in the EU pointing to the EMA and saying "This. Now get back to jabbing."?
It's because there's ANOTHER FUCKING AGENDA. Their initial mis-steps are being compounded by every next step they take. Just have the human decency, UvdL, to go in front of the media and say "So we go to it wrong on the AZ thing. It's actually great. It will save lots of lives across the EU." Instead, her actions are governed by not ever admitting failings in an EU system.
Von der Leyen may be a worse than useless idiot who should resign, but what has she got to do with the blood clot mess? precisely nothing in reality, but on Planet Brexit she has to be dragged into everything.
afaik she was demanding more doses of the vaccine. as usual your posts don't make any logical sense even on their own terms, let alone having any connection to reality.
Try this. The EU has a huge issue with self-importance. For example, it demands we take their "Ambassador". That we won't really grates with them.
We go through a messy divorce, a divorce that really, really hurts that sense of self importance. It has put back their Project. Worse still, at the first big post-divorce test of arm-wrestling, we don't so much smash their arm to the table, as rip it off and wave it around. The post-Brexit UK has really got under their skin. Unlike the vaccines. "We are the EU - how can we not be first in line for vaccines? Something must be done! Kneel down, suppliers, before our sense of entitlement."
So the EU tells a bit of a fib - that we are cheating on contracts to supply the UK first. See, it says here in the contracts... OK, so it doesn't. But they must still be cheating. They must be exporting what is rightly OUR stuff to get ahead of us. Jesus - the Brits have vaxxed HOW MANY? So we will put in place measures to ban it being exported. Hah! That will show them!"
"What "border down the middle of Ireland"? What "Good Friday Agreement"? Bollocks....well, say it was just an idea we were kicking around, it wasn't actually implemented....oh, it was implemented?. Bollocks."
"Thank you, Mr President, yes "quasi-ineffective", great line.... He does know we do actually WANT these vaccines doesn't he. Oh, really?....We don't? They don't work. Hmmm. You sure? Because the Brits are looking very healthy. The are even booking holidays...God, I'd love a holiday."
"It's OK, the EMA can get it back on tra....oh, nobody is listening to them? Nobody is listening to us? They have stopped using the AZ vaccine? What, even Germany? Especially Germany? Whilst the UK are continuing to - HOW FUCKING MANY? Jesus, at this rate the only people left alive in Europe are going to be the fucking over-fifty year old Brexiteers..."
"It is clear what Brussels needs. More power to end this shit show. No, I really DIDN'T start this shit show, thank you. For that, you can go and man a border post in Northern Ireland. Oh. Really? Burnt down, you say? Why? It was an entirely workable arrangement. JEEEEEZUS - "BBC: Boris Johnson has given everyone a jab with an Easter egg with his face on it"? Shameless. Fucking shameless.... So, tell me about this aid package of Sputnik jabs from Vladimir. What "gas pipeline"...?"
And so the EU soap ambles on a for few more episodes.
We've left, mate. Hundreds of words about the EU. Talk about Stockholm Syndrome.
Tell them we've left. The EU seem not to have accepted it. They re still trying to fuck over our vaccines like we are still in their club....
And yet to listen to the Brexiteers on here the EU/EMA are in charge and are dictating to all their stupidity. Which is true - except that it ISN'T. Member states are free to do as they see fit, which is why we have the contrasting polar opposites of Belgium jabbing away and Italy arresting the vaccine for witchcraft.
Have we reached the stage yet where Brexiteer ultras are arguing that the EU should be MORE centralised and integrated?
Does all this straw man nonsense make those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves? Apologies if I have missed it but I have not seen anyone on here say that this is all the fault of the EMA or that it should be. But carry on, I know its a bit embarrassing right now.
You wilfully miss the point. The EMA provides advice to the member states national health agencies who then make the national decision. There is no big bad EU dictating to members to stop using the Oxford jag - members are free to make their own decisions as they are.
That "the EU" keeps getting the blame is what is funny - it isn't the EU dictating to Italy to impound vials or Ireland to say "careful now" on national TV or Belgium to say "we're continuing with our vaccination programme".
It's extraordinary. We have a set of supposedly bright PB contributors, none of whom on the "EU monster" side get that very simple fact.
And yet to listen to the Brexiteers on here the EU/EMA are in charge and are dictating to all their stupidity. Which is true - except that it ISN'T. Member states are free to do as they see fit, which is why we have the contrasting polar opposites of Belgium jabbing away and Italy arresting the vaccine for witchcraft.
Have we reached the stage yet where Brexiteer ultras are arguing that the EU should be MORE centralised and integrated?
Does all this straw man nonsense make those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves? Apologies if I have missed it but I have not seen anyone on here say that this is all the fault of the EMA or that it should be. But carry on, I know its a bit embarrassing right now.
Another one who has no confidence in the UK being able to do its own thing. As indeed it did over vaccines, given that we were nominally still EU members when the VTF was set up.
Do you lot understand nothing?
I know, you're embarrassed. I won't rub it in.
I'm embarrassed on your behalf. You think the UK would have been so craven as not to be able to stand up to the mighty EU when that is in effect exactly what happened.
Sure the EU were mega-dicks about much over the past few weeks but what consistently surprises me is the lack of confidence you Brexiters have over the UK's ability to forge its own path within or indeed outside EU membership. Perhaps it's only a PB thing.
You say you are a unionist. Then have some pride in what "your" country can achieve.
I have enormous pride in my country (whilst being fully conscious that our government can and will cock things up on a regular basis). It is why I voted to leave so we could make our own choices. Its why I am delighted that we have got the vaccine program right.
Remainers took a rather different view as demonstrated by the Guardian headline complaining that the UK would suffer more death because our government had chosen not to be a part of the European commissioning program but there we are.
I very much regret the way that Europe has behaved in respect of the vaccines, Brexit and NI. Even as a leaver I genuinely expected better. But I am very glad that we are no longer so concerned what Germany and France think, let alone the Commission. I am glad we left. I see opportunities in this mess to bring the UK together again but the cost in unnecessary deaths is more than I would have liked to pay. I genuinely hope that the EMA can persuade Member States to behave rationally today.
Since I’ve been assured that no one really wants Indyref2, presumably this is a massive tactical error by the EssEnnPee and should be welcomed by Unionists everywhere.
Whilst you can't sue on a Manifesto promise - can the SNP be sued if the don't deliver a pledge on a ballot slip? It is a much more direct contract....
I suspect some very enthusiastic indy supporters might go down that route if it looks at all possible.
On the other hand, if there is a significant fall in SNP support, it gives Boris an easier time refusing it.
For understandable reasons, the SNP has doubled down on Indy. This is good - it clarifies the matter. Anyone who actually doesn't really want Indyref 2 but was thinking of voting SNP because they like Nicola or think their local SNP candidate is great (no sniggering at the back), will need to vote elsewhere or stay at home - as Nicola has been advising on telly for months.
A tip for anyone moving to the countryside: never join the village WhatsApp group.
It is poison.
What have you done now?
Not joined it. But I've heard the stories.
I don't want my phone buzzing night and day from a few Victor Meldrew's who use it to pursue very petty grievances and vendettas and be sucked into it.
Here in the Central Buchan countryside my village has a thriving community Facebook group which is remarkably calm and sane and community focused.
No, I don't get it either. Such things have always been hate pits when I have followed them elsewhere.
Good and active moderation is essential - the problem is that most moderators create groups that match themselves.
We've left, mate. Hundreds of words about the EU. Talk about Stockholm Syndrome.
In the Venn diagram of Brexiteers who despite the UK having left the EU seem compelled to post endlessly about the institution and Royalists who believe H&M are self-publicising narcissists who should be ignored yet seem compelled to post endlessly about their activities, I wonder how big a number would be in the intersection of those two sets?
A tip for anyone moving to the countryside: never join the village WhatsApp group.
It is poison.
A tip for everyone. Don’t use WhatsApp, deleting it was the best thing I did last year.
I mean, I use WhatsApp and other similar apps to keep in contact with my mates. Be it comments on politics, music, organising Zoom calls, or Newcastle United's woes. My life would be significantly worse without it.
Since I’ve been assured that no one really wants Indyref2, presumably this is a massive tactical error by the EssEnnPee and should be welcomed by Unionists everywhere.
Interesting and potentially game changing. Indications suggest there are lots of Scots who want an SNP Holyrood, and are on the side of independence but don't want a referendum at the moment. Call them Augustinians - they want chastity but not now. Some in truth will want (like many in the RoI about NI) a permanent and never met wish for its achievement in the indefinite future as they carry on spending English cash and relying on the Bank of England as the bank of mum and dad.
A change in title may persuade some to shift focus, either to Greens or to the unionist parties.
It might work. Changing the name of Labour to 'Labour and Tories are Scum' might work too, but I am doubtful.
To his credit, Blair's motivation in all this is fairly clearly about protecting peace in Northern Ireland. There are too many more concerned with process and making assertions about "the UK/(occasionally EU) made its bed it can lie in it", whilst ignoring the fact that the stated purpose of the protocol is to protect the Good Friday agreement and Northern Ireland peace, not about winners or losers between the UK/EU. If the arrangements currently in place under the Protocol aren't working to the purpose intended (whether due to issues at the Irish border OR the Irish Sea border) then it is encumbent on both sides to adapt and be flexible to revise them.
(Legally) enforcing the agreement as written won't help it meet its purpose if it doesn't work.
You're right, of course, but the Irish border and NI peace has only ever been a useful tool for the EU to try and trap the UK into vassalage. That's the lens with which the EU views the border, how best to use it to hurt the UK, they clearly give no fucks about NI peace and ensuring separatists and loyalists are both content with the arrangements.
Ultimately they could have done away with the sea border entirely and just lived with a very small open border with the UK on the island of Ireland. Instead they chose this overly legalistic approach to create as much difficulty for the UK government as possible to extricate itself from the EU.
I don't understand the issues of NI, I've read some pieces from people who do we they all say that the NI protocol threatens the peace in NI so for that reason it either needs to be rewritten or just junked entirely. The last thing we need is a resurgence of bombs and people dying over a conflict that has been settled fir 20+ years.
So all the EU had to do was bin its long standing and pre-existing border rules to just have an open border with the outside world? Fine! Except that we left at least in part because of the EU's lax borders. We wanted to Take Back Control of our borders to stop forrin wandering in to steal our jobs and our wimmin. Can't do that with an open border can we?
"Ah, just don't allow them to work / claim benefits" I hear as a reply. Yes, thats call an illegal immigrant. The type that really wind gammoneers up the most. Your solution is to have an open door to undocumented illegals. Bravo.
The actions of Ireland are bad enough - but hopefully it'll be a short pause till Thursday there (That's quite bad enough). But the Italian police seizing 400,000 vaccines. Sweet Jesus christ
I hope they are maintaining the cold chain during seizure, transport and storage. Otherwise, that is 400k does down the drain.
I think that's precisely what will happen. Why seize them rather than just giving a pause on vaccinations like everywhere else that isn't quite as bonkers as Italy ?
Oh they've put in place a vaccine pause as well. Although that maybe as a consequence of the police seizure which means that any contrary action puts them all on the hook for mass murder (i'm not joking - that's how Italian prosecutors work). I doubt the police are working in concert with national government officials at all.
The head of the Italian regulators said overnight that the AstraZeneca vaccine is safe and the decision to suspend it was “political”
Just possibly, of course, there's a widespread lack of trust in us, the British.
I’m sorry but that is a fucking stupid answer. Even being a Europhile doesn’t justify that attitude from you, especially given your historical training. AstraZeneca’s vaccine is effective. AstraZeneca’s vaccine is safe. People will die if they don’t take it.
There is no way to justify the bullshit from the European politicians
Surely @OldKingCole is pointing out a possible cause of what appears to be a smear campaign in Europe against the AZ vaccine? He's not saying a lack of trust is justified. His suggestion may or may not be correct but it's hardly fair to class it as 'fucking stupid'.
What's your alternative explanation for the way the AZ vaccine has been singled out?
Politics, scapegoating and cowardice among politicians
Politics is surely about trust. Or lack of it. And politicians, especially second-rate ones, tend to look for scapegoats. Cowardice: Try Kipling's 'A Dead Statesman".
And yet to listen to the Brexiteers on here the EU/EMA are in charge and are dictating to all their stupidity. Which is true - except that it ISN'T. Member states are free to do as they see fit, which is why we have the contrasting polar opposites of Belgium jabbing away and Italy arresting the vaccine for witchcraft.
Have we reached the stage yet where Brexiteer ultras are arguing that the EU should be MORE centralised and integrated?
Does all this straw man nonsense make those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves? Apologies if I have missed it but I have not seen anyone on here say that this is all the fault of the EMA or that it should be. But carry on, I know its a bit embarrassing right now.
Another one who has no confidence in the UK being able to do its own thing. As indeed it did over vaccines, given that we were nominally still EU members when the VTF was set up.
Do you lot understand nothing?
I know, you're embarrassed. I won't rub it in.
I'm embarrassed on your behalf. You think the UK would have been so craven as not to be able to stand up to the mighty EU when that is in effect exactly what happened.
Sure the EU were mega-dicks about much over the past few weeks but what consistently surprises me is the lack of confidence you Brexiters have over the UK's ability to forge its own path within or indeed outside EU membership. Perhaps it's only a PB thing.
You say you are a unionist. Then have some pride in what "your" country can achieve.
I have enormous pride in my country (whilst being fully conscious that our government can and will cock things up on a regular basis). It is why I voted to leave so we could make our own choices. Its why I am delighted that we have got the vaccine program right.
Remainers took a rather different view as demonstrated by the Guardian headline complaining that the UK would suffer more death because our government had chosen not to be a part of the European commissioning program but there we are.
I very much regret the way that Europe has behaved in respect of the vaccines, Brexit and NI. Even as a leaver I genuinely expected better. But I am very glad that we are no longer so concerned what Germany and France think, let alone the Commission. I am glad we left. I see opportunities in this mess to bring the UK together again but the cost in unnecessary deaths is more than I would have liked to pay. I genuinely hope that the EMA can persuade Member States to behave rationally today.
We did make our own choices. As did Belgium, for example. Remember Dave "Boy" Davis - we were always sovereign. Still are.
Since I’ve been assured that no one really wants Indyref2, presumably this is a massive tactical error by the EssEnnPee and should be welcomed by Unionists everywhere.
Interesting and potentially game changing. Indications suggest there are lots of Scots who want an SNP Holyrood, and are on the side of independence but don't want a referendum at the moment. Call them Augustinians - they want chastity but not now. Some in truth will want (like many in the RoI about NI) a permanent and never met wish for its achievement in the indefinite future as they carry on spending English cash and relying on the Bank of England as the bank of mum and dad.
A change in title may persuade some to shift focus, either to Greens or to the unionist parties.
It might work. Changing the name of Labour to 'Labour and Tories are Scum' might work too, but I am doubtful.
It feels like a rearguard strategy - one to try and shore up the faithful not reach out to new voters. Perhaps that's not surprising - though the SNP does still have a commanding polling lead.
And yet to listen to the Brexiteers on here the EU/EMA are in charge and are dictating to all their stupidity. Which is true - except that it ISN'T. Member states are free to do as they see fit, which is why we have the contrasting polar opposites of Belgium jabbing away and Italy arresting the vaccine for witchcraft.
Have we reached the stage yet where Brexiteer ultras are arguing that the EU should be MORE centralised and integrated?
Does all this straw man nonsense make those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves? Apologies if I have missed it but I have not seen anyone on here say that this is all the fault of the EMA or that it should be. But carry on, I know its a bit embarrassing right now.
You wilfully miss the point. The EMA provides advice to the member states national health agencies who then make the national decision. There is no big bad EU dictating to members to stop using the Oxford jag - members are free to make their own decisions as they are.
That "the EU" keeps getting the blame is what is funny - it isn't the EU dictating to Italy to impound vials or Ireland to say "careful now" on national TV or Belgium to say "we're continuing with our vaccination programme".
No but the EU are the ones who picked a fight with Astrazeneca and started undermining it. Their cheerleaders have continued the fight, which has led to what was started from them spreading from there.
Its like an arsonist starting a fire, then the fire spreads and becomes a wild out of control bushfire endangering lives, homes and businesses. The arsonist might want to stand back and say "I didn't mean to start a bushfire" but it is the consequence of them lighting the fire in the first place.
To his credit, Blair's motivation in all this is fairly clearly about protecting peace in Northern Ireland. There are too many more concerned with process and making assertions about "the UK/(occasionally EU) made its bed it can lie in it", whilst ignoring the fact that the stated purpose of the protocol is to protect the Good Friday agreement and Northern Ireland peace, not about winners or losers between the UK/EU. If the arrangements currently in place under the Protocol aren't working to the purpose intended (whether due to issues at the Irish border OR the Irish Sea border) then it is encumbent on both sides to adapt and be flexible to revise them.
(Legally) enforcing the agreement as written won't help it meet its purpose if it doesn't work.
You're right, of course, but the Irish border and NI peace has only ever been a useful tool for the EU to try and trap the UK into vassalage. That's the lens with which the EU views the border, how best to use it to hurt the UK, they clearly give no fucks about NI peace and ensuring separatists and loyalists are both content with the arrangements.
Ultimately they could have done away with the sea border entirely and just lived with a very small open border with the UK on the island of Ireland. Instead they chose this overly legalistic approach to create as much difficulty for the UK government as possible to extricate itself from the EU.
I don't understand the issues of NI, I've read some pieces from people who do we they all say that the NI protocol threatens the peace in NI so for that reason it either needs to be rewritten or just junked entirely. The last thing we need is a resurgence of bombs and people dying over a conflict that has been settled fir 20+ years.
So all the EU had to do was bin its long standing and pre-existing border rules to just have an open border with the outside world? Fine! Except that we left at least in part because of the EU's lax borders. We wanted to Take Back Control of our borders to stop forrin wandering in to steal our jobs and our wimmin. Can't do that with an open border can we?
"Ah, just don't allow them to work / claim benefits" I hear as a reply. Yes, thats call an illegal immigrant. The type that really wind gammoneers up the most. Your solution is to have an open door to undocumented illegals. Bravo.
There’s no border control of people between any and all of GB, UK, NI and RoI, there hasn’t been for decades, and no-one is proposing that there should be.
To his credit, Blair's motivation in all this is fairly clearly about protecting peace in Northern Ireland. There are too many more concerned with process and making assertions about "the UK/(occasionally EU) made its bed it can lie in it", whilst ignoring the fact that the stated purpose of the protocol is to protect the Good Friday agreement and Northern Ireland peace, not about winners or losers between the UK/EU. If the arrangements currently in place under the Protocol aren't working to the purpose intended (whether due to issues at the Irish border OR the Irish Sea border) then it is encumbent on both sides to adapt and be flexible to revise them.
(Legally) enforcing the agreement as written won't help it meet its purpose if it doesn't work.
You're right, of course, but the Irish border and NI peace has only ever been a useful tool for the EU to try and trap the UK into vassalage. That's the lens with which the EU views the border, how best to use it to hurt the UK, they clearly give no fucks about NI peace and ensuring separatists and loyalists are both content with the arrangements.
Ultimately they could have done away with the sea border entirely and just lived with a very small open border with the UK on the island of Ireland. Instead they chose this overly legalistic approach to create as much difficulty for the UK government as possible to extricate itself from the EU.
I don't understand the issues of NI, I've read some pieces from people who do we they all say that the NI protocol threatens the peace in NI so for that reason it either needs to be rewritten or just junked entirely. The last thing we need is a resurgence of bombs and people dying over a conflict that has been settled fir 20+ years.
So all the EU had to do was bin its long standing and pre-existing border rules to just have an open border with the outside world? Fine! Except that we left at least in part because of the EU's lax borders. We wanted to Take Back Control of our borders to stop forrin wandering in to steal our jobs and our wimmin. Can't do that with an open border can we?
"Ah, just don't allow them to work / claim benefits" I hear as a reply. Yes, thats call an illegal immigrant. The type that really wind gammoneers up the most. Your solution is to have an open door to undocumented illegals. Bravo.
Nonsense on stilts.
We don't control migration at the border, we never have done. Tourists are allowed to come into the country without a work visa.
And yet to listen to the Brexiteers on here the EU/EMA are in charge and are dictating to all their stupidity. Which is true - except that it ISN'T. Member states are free to do as they see fit, which is why we have the contrasting polar opposites of Belgium jabbing away and Italy arresting the vaccine for witchcraft.
Have we reached the stage yet where Brexiteer ultras are arguing that the EU should be MORE centralised and integrated?
Does all this straw man nonsense make those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves? Apologies if I have missed it but I have not seen anyone on here say that this is all the fault of the EMA or that it should be. But carry on, I know its a bit embarrassing right now.
Another one who has no confidence in the UK being able to do its own thing. As indeed it did over vaccines, given that we were nominally still EU members when the VTF was set up.
Do you lot understand nothing?
I know, you're embarrassed. I won't rub it in.
I'm embarrassed on your behalf. You think the UK would have been so craven as not to be able to stand up to the mighty EU when that is in effect exactly what happened.
Sure the EU were mega-dicks about much over the past few weeks but what consistently surprises me is the lack of confidence you Brexiters have over the UK's ability to forge its own path within or indeed outside EU membership. Perhaps it's only a PB thing.
You say you are a unionist. Then have some pride in what "your" country can achieve.
Its baffling. WE HAD TO LEAVE THE EU TO GET A VACCINE. Developed whilst in the transition period using EU laws and explicitly wouldn't have been delayed/blocked by EU membership according to the regulator who personally signed it off. Have we still had enough of experts? EU DICTATES TO STOP USING JAG TO KILL PEOPLE TO SPIKE UK. Despite national health agencies having the absolute say in what happens in their own state as we did and Belgium / Sweden etc are openly doing.
I get it. We don't like being dictated to by unelected political appointees we can't get rid of like Carrie SymondsDominic Cummings Ursula Von der Leyen. So we have to maintain the narrative of the Big Bad EU even if only to distract from our own cataclysmic fuck ups.
just as once the seeds of doubt were planted in AZ by their botched trials many delusional people start seeing anything that happens in the vicinity of AZ as being caused by AZ, there are so many posters on here who are so addicted to the paranoid delusional politics of grievance that they need to see EU anti-British plots everywhere.
The EU is acquiescing by silence to the madness running rampant across member states.
Thailand: "Hey, there might be a problem with....actually, no there isn't. As you were."
EU " .............................................................................................. "
So "the EU" hasn't said "blood clots", but most of your posts are just crap you've made up, so par for the course.
The EMA, which is surely the relevant EU body has actually said that vaccinations should continue.
So why is nobody in the EU pointing to the EMA and saying "This. Now get back to jabbing."?
It's because there's ANOTHER FUCKING AGENDA. Their initial mis-steps are being compounded by every next step they take. Just have the human decency, UvdL, to go in front of the media and say "So we go to it wrong on the AZ thing. It's actually great. It will save lots of lives across the EU." Instead, her actions are governed by not ever admitting failings in an EU system.
Von der Leyen may be a worse than useless idiot who should resign, but what has she got to do with the blood clot mess? precisely nothing in reality, but on Planet Brexit she has to be dragged into everything.
afaik she was demanding more doses of the vaccine. as usual your posts don't make any logical sense even on their own terms, let alone having any connection to reality.
Try this. The EU has a huge issue with self-importance. For example, it demands we take their "Ambassador". That we won't really grates with them.
We go through a messy divorce, a divorce that really, really hurts that sense of self importance. It has put back their Project. Worse still, at the first big post-divorce test of arm-wrestling, we don't so much smash their arm to the table, as rip it off and wave it around. The post-Brexit UK has really got under their skin. Unlike the vaccines. "We are the EU - how can we not be first in line for vaccines? Something must be done! Kneel down, suppliers, before our sense of entitlement."
So the EU tells a bit of a fib - that we are cheating on contracts to supply the UK first. See, it says here in the contracts... OK, so it doesn't. But they must still be cheating. They must be exporting what is rightly OUR stuff to get ahead of us. Jesus - the Brits have vaxxed HOW MANY? So we will put in place measures to ban it being exported. Hah! That will show them!"
"What "border down the middle of Ireland"? What "Good Friday Agreement"? Bollocks....well, say it was just an idea we were kicking around, it wasn't actually implemented....oh, it was implemented?. Bollocks."
"Thank you, Mr President, yes "quasi-ineffective", great line.... He does know we do actually WANT these vaccines doesn't he. Oh, really?....We don't? They don't work. Hmmm. You sure? Because the Brits are looking very healthy. The are even booking holidays...God, I'd love a holiday."
"It's OK, the EMA can get it back on tra....oh, nobody is listening to them? Nobody is listening to us? They have stopped using the AZ vaccine? What, even Germany? Especially Germany? Whilst the UK are continuing to - HOW FUCKING MANY? Jesus, at this rate the only people left alive in Europe are going to be the fucking over-fifty year old Brexiteers..."
"It is clear what Brussels needs. More power to end this shit show. No, I really DIDN'T start this shit show, thank you. For that, you can go and man a border post in Northern Ireland. Oh. Really? Burnt down, you say? Why? It was an entirely workable arrangement. JEEEEEZUS - "BBC: Boris Johnson has given everyone a jab with an Easter egg with his face on it"? Shameless. Fucking shameless.... So, tell me about this aid package of Sputnik jabs from Vladimir. What "gas pipeline"...?"
And so the EU soap ambles on a for few more episodes.
We've left, mate. Hundreds of words about the EU. Talk about Stockholm Syndrome.
Tell them we've left. The EU seem not to have accepted it. They re still trying to fuck over our vaccines like we are still in their club....
Petal. They are being dicks over it all but they are acting in what they perceive to be the best interests of themselves. And you have it exactly wrong: they are not behaving as if we are still in their club, they are behaving as if we are a third country.
The actions of Ireland are bad enough - but hopefully it'll be a short pause till Thursday there (That's quite bad enough). But the Italian police seizing 400,000 vaccines. Sweet Jesus christ
I hope they are maintaining the cold chain during seizure, transport and storage. Otherwise, that is 400k does down the drain.
I think that's precisely what will happen. Why seize them rather than just giving a pause on vaccinations like everywhere else that isn't quite as bonkers as Italy ?
Oh they've put in place a vaccine pause as well. Although that maybe as a consequence of the police seizure which means that any contrary action puts them all on the hook for mass murder (i'm not joking - that's how Italian prosecutors work). I doubt the police are working in concert with national government officials at all.
The head of the Italian regulators said overnight that the AstraZeneca vaccine is safe and the decision to suspend it was “political”
Just possibly, of course, there's a widespread lack of trust in us, the British.
I’m sorry but that is a fucking stupid answer. Even being a Europhile doesn’t justify that attitude from you, especially given your historical training. AstraZeneca’s vaccine is effective. AstraZeneca’s vaccine is safe. People will die if they don’t take it.
There is no way to justify the bullshit from the European politicians
Surely @OldKingCole is pointing out a possible cause of what appears to be a smear campaign in Europe against the AZ vaccine? He's not saying a lack of trust is justified. His suggestion may or may not be correct but it's hardly fair to class it as 'fucking stupid'.
What's your alternative explanation for the way the AZ vaccine has been singled out?
Politics, scapegoating and cowardice among politicians
None of which provides as good a theory as @OldKingCole's to answer the question: why AZ?
A tip for anyone moving to the countryside: never join the village WhatsApp group.
It is poison.
Apparently Facebook groups on new build developments are hilarious.
People have a poor understanding of how developments are approved, and local politicians even at parish level have a vested interest in over selling their ability to influence such developments, leading to a lot more anger and obsession than would already exist when things start, especially given some impacts that can arise, especially with crappy developers and poor infrastructure issues
Sorry, I mean groups for the residents of the new developments. There tends to be all sorts of outrage.
And yet to listen to the Brexiteers on here the EU/EMA are in charge and are dictating to all their stupidity. Which is true - except that it ISN'T. Member states are free to do as they see fit, which is why we have the contrasting polar opposites of Belgium jabbing away and Italy arresting the vaccine for witchcraft.
Have we reached the stage yet where Brexiteer ultras are arguing that the EU should be MORE centralised and integrated?
Does all this straw man nonsense make those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves? Apologies if I have missed it but I have not seen anyone on here say that this is all the fault of the EMA or that it should be. But carry on, I know its a bit embarrassing right now.
Another one who has no confidence in the UK being able to do its own thing. As indeed it did over vaccines, given that we were nominally still EU members when the VTF was set up.
Do you lot understand nothing?
I know, you're embarrassed. I won't rub it in.
I'm embarrassed on your behalf. You think the UK would have been so craven as not to be able to stand up to the mighty EU when that is in effect exactly what happened.
Sure the EU were mega-dicks about much over the past few weeks but what consistently surprises me is the lack of confidence you Brexiters have over the UK's ability to forge its own path within or indeed outside EU membership. Perhaps it's only a PB thing.
You say you are a unionist. Then have some pride in what "your" country can achieve.
Its baffling. WE HAD TO LEAVE THE EU TO GET A VACCINE. Developed whilst in the transition period using EU laws and explicitly wouldn't have been delayed/blocked by EU membership according to the regulator who personally signed it off. Have we still had enough of experts? EU DICTATES TO STOP USING JAG TO KILL PEOPLE TO SPIKE UK. Despite national health agencies having the absolute say in what happens in their own state as we did and Belgium / Sweden etc are openly doing.
I get it. We don't like being dictated to by unelected political appointees we can't get rid of like Carrie SymondsDominic Cummings Ursula Von der Leyen. So we have to maintain the narrative of the Big Bad EU even if only to distract from our own cataclysmic fuck ups.
There has been a lot of "we can't vote them out" over recent days.
The irony of a country which voted to and now has just left the EU saying that it is unable to free itself from the EU is priceless.
just as once the seeds of doubt were planted in AZ by their botched trials many delusional people start seeing anything that happens in the vicinity of AZ as being caused by AZ, there are so many posters on here who are so addicted to the paranoid delusional politics of grievance that they need to see EU anti-British plots everywhere.
The EU is acquiescing by silence to the madness running rampant across member states.
Thailand: "Hey, there might be a problem with....actually, no there isn't. As you were."
EU " .............................................................................................. "
So "the EU" hasn't said "blood clots", but most of your posts are just crap you've made up, so par for the course.
The EMA, which is surely the relevant EU body has actually said that vaccinations should continue.
So why is nobody in the EU pointing to the EMA and saying "This. Now get back to jabbing."?
It's because there's ANOTHER FUCKING AGENDA. Their initial mis-steps are being compounded by every next step they take. Just have the human decency, UvdL, to go in front of the media and say "So we go to it wrong on the AZ thing. It's actually great. It will save lots of lives across the EU." Instead, her actions are governed by not ever admitting failings in an EU system.
Von der Leyen may be a worse than useless idiot who should resign, but what has she got to do with the blood clot mess? precisely nothing in reality, but on Planet Brexit she has to be dragged into everything.
afaik she was demanding more doses of the vaccine. as usual your posts don't make any logical sense even on their own terms, let alone having any connection to reality.
Try this. The EU has a huge issue with self-importance. For example, it demands we take their "Ambassador". That we won't really grates with them.
We go through a messy divorce, a divorce that really, really hurts that sense of self importance. It has put back their Project. Worse still, at the first big post-divorce test of arm-wrestling, we don't so much smash their arm to the table, as rip it off and wave it around. The post-Brexit UK has really got under their skin. Unlike the vaccines. "We are the EU - how can we not be first in line for vaccines? Something must be done! Kneel down, suppliers, before our sense of entitlement."
So the EU tells a bit of a fib - that we are cheating on contracts to supply the UK first. See, it says here in the contracts... OK, so it doesn't. But they must still be cheating. They must be exporting what is rightly OUR stuff to get ahead of us. Jesus - the Brits have vaxxed HOW MANY? So we will put in place measures to ban it being exported. Hah! That will show them!"
"What "border down the middle of Ireland"? What "Good Friday Agreement"? Bollocks....well, say it was just an idea we were kicking around, it wasn't actually implemented....oh, it was implemented?. Bollocks."
"Thank you, Mr President, yes "quasi-ineffective", great line.... He does know we do actually WANT these vaccines doesn't he. Oh, really?....We don't? They don't work. Hmmm. You sure? Because the Brits are looking very healthy. The are even booking holidays...God, I'd love a holiday."
"It's OK, the EMA can get it back on tra....oh, nobody is listening to them? Nobody is listening to us? They have stopped using the AZ vaccine? What, even Germany? Especially Germany? Whilst the UK are continuing to - HOW FUCKING MANY? Jesus, at this rate the only people left alive in Europe are going to be the fucking over-fifty year old Brexiteers..."
"It is clear what Brussels needs. More power to end this shit show. No, I really DIDN'T start this shit show, thank you. For that, you can go and man a border post in Northern Ireland. Oh. Really? Burnt down, you say? Why? It was an entirely workable arrangement. JEEEEEZUS - "BBC: Boris Johnson has given everyone a jab with an Easter egg with his face on it"? Shameless. Fucking shameless.... So, tell me about this aid package of Sputnik jabs from Vladimir. What "gas pipeline"...?"
And so the EU soap ambles on a for few more episodes.
We've left, mate. Hundreds of words about the EU. Talk about Stockholm Syndrome.
Tell them we've left. The EU seem not to have accepted it. They re still trying to fuck over our vaccines like we are still in their club....
Petal. They are being dicks over it all but they are acting in what they perceive to be the best interests of themselves. And you have it exactly wrong: they are not behaving as if we are still in their club, they are behaving as if we are a third country.
It takes two to tango. We can "implement" the Protocol in the most minimalist, delayed, irrelevant way we choose to do so too. Our interpretation of it. They can cry and whinge that it isn't what they meant, but we our sovereign and can implement it however we choose to do so, not them.
Since I’ve been assured that no one really wants Indyref2, presumably this is a massive tactical error by the EssEnnPee and should be welcomed by Unionists everywhere.
If the SNP do stand as 'SNP Indyref2' then it may well put off a few voters who are happy to keep Sturgeon as FM but do not want indyref2 anytime soon.
In any case the decision on any meaningful indyref2 will remain with Westminster regardless
And yet to listen to the Brexiteers on here the EU/EMA are in charge and are dictating to all their stupidity. Which is true - except that it ISN'T. Member states are free to do as they see fit, which is why we have the contrasting polar opposites of Belgium jabbing away and Italy arresting the vaccine for witchcraft.
Have we reached the stage yet where Brexiteer ultras are arguing that the EU should be MORE centralised and integrated?
Does all this straw man nonsense make those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves? Apologies if I have missed it but I have not seen anyone on here say that this is all the fault of the EMA or that it should be. But carry on, I know its a bit embarrassing right now.
You wilfully miss the point. The EMA provides advice to the member states national health agencies who then make the national decision. There is no big bad EU dictating to members to stop using the Oxford jag - members are free to make their own decisions as they are.
That "the EU" keeps getting the blame is what is funny - it isn't the EU dictating to Italy to impound vials or Ireland to say "careful now" on national TV or Belgium to say "we're continuing with our vaccination programme".
It's extraordinary. We have a set of supposedly bright PB contributors, none of whom on the "EU monster" side get that very simple fact.
There is plenty to criticise the EU, and indeed EU member states (and the UK too for that matter), over the rubbish handling of the pandemic without flying off into complete irrationality.
It's like the other day, when someone was blaming von der Leyen for EU countries giving less than the UK in overseas aid. Despite the facts that - it's not in her power - when the UK was an actual EU country it was giving 0.7% and now it's left it wants to drop it to 0.5%
Logical thinking flies out the window as soon as Europe is mentioned. It's a bit like the US Republicans who are reflexively against anything if they think the "Liberals" are in favour of it.
To his credit, Blair's motivation in all this is fairly clearly about protecting peace in Northern Ireland. There are too many more concerned with process and making assertions about "the UK/(occasionally EU) made its bed it can lie in it", whilst ignoring the fact that the stated purpose of the protocol is to protect the Good Friday agreement and Northern Ireland peace, not about winners or losers between the UK/EU. If the arrangements currently in place under the Protocol aren't working to the purpose intended (whether due to issues at the Irish border OR the Irish Sea border) then it is encumbent on both sides to adapt and be flexible to revise them.
(Legally) enforcing the agreement as written won't help it meet its purpose if it doesn't work.
At the heart of the Blair proposal is equivalence agreement on SPS - ag/food. Much of the rest of it is the sentiment that politicians ought to play more nicely; good luck and all that.
The question is whether equivalence on SPS crosses a red lines or lines, and whose. Ireland cannot be resolved until some of NI, RoI, UK and EU alter their red lines, as the present agreement (which is an elaborate ruse) is the best that can be done within them.
What impact, for example, does SPS have on UK use of GM or GE food if we wish to adopt a more reasoned position than the EU effective outright ban on GM production?
What on standards about the ban on cruel production such as traditional Foie Gras?
Yes. To do that either EU or UK red lines have to move. Once you allow red lines to move then of course everyone else's suggestions for red line moving are up for grabs.
What is politically fascinating is that the island of Ireland presents an immovable object/irresistible force problem and has done from day 1 of Brexit and all parties are still dancing around it. No side dares admit there is no solution within current configurations.
To his credit, Blair's motivation in all this is fairly clearly about protecting peace in Northern Ireland. There are too many more concerned with process and making assertions about "the UK/(occasionally EU) made its bed it can lie in it", whilst ignoring the fact that the stated purpose of the protocol is to protect the Good Friday agreement and Northern Ireland peace, not about winners or losers between the UK/EU. If the arrangements currently in place under the Protocol aren't working to the purpose intended (whether due to issues at the Irish border OR the Irish Sea border) then it is encumbent on both sides to adapt and be flexible to revise them.
(Legally) enforcing the agreement as written won't help it meet its purpose if it doesn't work.
You're right, of course, but the Irish border and NI peace has only ever been a useful tool for the EU to try and trap the UK into vassalage. That's the lens with which the EU views the border, how best to use it to hurt the UK, they clearly give no fucks about NI peace and ensuring separatists and loyalists are both content with the arrangements.
Ultimately they could have done away with the sea border entirely and just lived with a very small open border with the UK on the island of Ireland. Instead they chose this overly legalistic approach to create as much difficulty for the UK government as possible to extricate itself from the EU.
I don't understand the issues of NI, I've read some pieces from people who do we they all say that the NI protocol threatens the peace in NI so for that reason it either needs to be rewritten or just junked entirely. The last thing we need is a resurgence of bombs and people dying over a conflict that has been settled fir 20+ years.
So all the EU had to do was bin its long standing and pre-existing border rules to just have an open border with the outside world? Fine! Except that we left at least in part because of the EU's lax borders. We wanted to Take Back Control of our borders to stop forrin wandering in to steal our jobs and our wimmin. Can't do that with an open border can we?
"Ah, just don't allow them to work / claim benefits" I hear as a reply. Yes, thats call an illegal immigrant. The type that really wind gammoneers up the most. Your solution is to have an open door to undocumented illegals. Bravo.
Ireland and the UK are in the CTA. Your point is specious.
And yet to listen to the Brexiteers on here the EU/EMA are in charge and are dictating to all their stupidity. Which is true - except that it ISN'T. Member states are free to do as they see fit, which is why we have the contrasting polar opposites of Belgium jabbing away and Italy arresting the vaccine for witchcraft.
Have we reached the stage yet where Brexiteer ultras are arguing that the EU should be MORE centralised and integrated?
Does all this straw man nonsense make those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves? Apologies if I have missed it but I have not seen anyone on here say that this is all the fault of the EMA or that it should be. But carry on, I know its a bit embarrassing right now.
Another one who has no confidence in the UK being able to do its own thing. As indeed it did over vaccines, given that we were nominally still EU members when the VTF was set up.
Do you lot understand nothing?
I know, you're embarrassed. I won't rub it in.
I'm embarrassed on your behalf. You think the UK would have been so craven as not to be able to stand up to the mighty EU when that is in effect exactly what happened.
Sure the EU were mega-dicks about much over the past few weeks but what consistently surprises me is the lack of confidence you Brexiters have over the UK's ability to forge its own path within or indeed outside EU membership. Perhaps it's only a PB thing.
You say you are a unionist. Then have some pride in what "your" country can achieve.
I have enormous pride in my country (whilst being fully conscious that our government can and will cock things up on a regular basis). It is why I voted to leave so we could make our own choices. Its why I am delighted that we have got the vaccine program right.
Remainers took a rather different view as demonstrated by the Guardian headline complaining that the UK would suffer more death because our government had chosen not to be a part of the European commissioning program but there we are.
I very much regret the way that Europe has behaved in respect of the vaccines, Brexit and NI. Even as a leaver I genuinely expected better. But I am very glad that we are no longer so concerned what Germany and France think, let alone the Commission. I am glad we left. I see opportunities in this mess to bring the UK together again but the cost in unnecessary deaths is more than I would have liked to pay. I genuinely hope that the EMA can persuade Member States to behave rationally today.
The EMA. Does. Not. Dictate. To. Member. States. What Germany and France think didn't stop us setting up the vaccines task force or stop Italy arresting the vaccine for witchcraft or Belgium continuing to use it.
Your central argument - a Big Bad EU dictating to member states - is literally not what is happening in front of your own eyes. You are a smart gentleman yet you are writing such baseless guff. Why?
A tip for anyone moving to the countryside: never join the village WhatsApp group.
It is poison.
Apparently Facebook groups on new build developments are hilarious.
People have a poor understanding of how developments are approved, and local politicians even at parish level have a vested interest in over selling their ability to influence such developments, leading to a lot more anger and obsession than would already exist when things start, especially given some impacts that can arise, especially with crappy developers and poor infrastructure issues
Sorry, I mean groups for the residents of the new developments. There tends to be all sorts of outrage.
Dog mess is often a favourite.
Dog mess, has anyone received my parcel, is the road still underwater/closed, does anyone want this pair of trainers would fit a 7-yr old tend to dominate.
We've left, mate. Hundreds of words about the EU. Talk about Stockholm Syndrome.
In the Venn diagram of Brexiteers who despite the UK having left the EU seem compelled to post endlessly about the institution and Royalists who believe H&M are self-publicising narcissists who should be ignored yet seem compelled to post endlessly about their activities, I wonder how big a number would be in the intersection of those two sets?
And yet to listen to the Brexiteers on here the EU/EMA are in charge and are dictating to all their stupidity. Which is true - except that it ISN'T. Member states are free to do as they see fit, which is why we have the contrasting polar opposites of Belgium jabbing away and Italy arresting the vaccine for witchcraft.
Have we reached the stage yet where Brexiteer ultras are arguing that the EU should be MORE centralised and integrated?
Does all this straw man nonsense make those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves? Apologies if I have missed it but I have not seen anyone on here say that this is all the fault of the EMA or that it should be. But carry on, I know its a bit embarrassing right now.
You wilfully miss the point. The EMA provides advice to the member states national health agencies who then make the national decision. There is no big bad EU dictating to members to stop using the Oxford jag - members are free to make their own decisions as they are.
That "the EU" keeps getting the blame is what is funny - it isn't the EU dictating to Italy to impound vials or Ireland to say "careful now" on national TV or Belgium to say "we're continuing with our vaccination programme".
It's extraordinary. We have a set of supposedly bright PB contributors, none of whom on the "EU monster" side get that very simple fact.
You'd think that Venezuela, Thailand, Norway and Iceland joining the party might provide something of a hint.
A tip for anyone moving to the countryside: never join the village WhatsApp group.
It is poison.
What have you done now?
Not joined it. But I've heard the stories.
I don't want my phone buzzing night and day from a few Victor Meldrew's who use it to pursue very petty grievances and vendettas and be sucked into it.
Here in the Central Buchan countryside my village has a thriving community Facebook group which is remarkably calm and sane and community focused.
No, I don't get it either. Such things have always been hate pits when I have followed them elsewhere.
Good and active moderation is essential - the problem is that most moderators create groups that match themselves.
Yes. "Thornaby Alert" was moderated with an iron fist by a lovely old feisty grandma who everyone respected. When she abruptly died moderation fell apart and it turned into the usual hate fest.
And yet to listen to the Brexiteers on here the EU/EMA are in charge and are dictating to all their stupidity. Which is true - except that it ISN'T. Member states are free to do as they see fit, which is why we have the contrasting polar opposites of Belgium jabbing away and Italy arresting the vaccine for witchcraft.
Have we reached the stage yet where Brexiteer ultras are arguing that the EU should be MORE centralised and integrated?
Does all this straw man nonsense make those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves? Apologies if I have missed it but I have not seen anyone on here say that this is all the fault of the EMA or that it should be. But carry on, I know its a bit embarrassing right now.
You wilfully miss the point. The EMA provides advice to the member states national health agencies who then make the national decision. There is no big bad EU dictating to members to stop using the Oxford jag - members are free to make their own decisions as they are.
That "the EU" keeps getting the blame is what is funny - it isn't the EU dictating to Italy to impound vials or Ireland to say "careful now" on national TV or Belgium to say "we're continuing with our vaccination programme".
It's extraordinary. We have a set of supposedly bright PB contributors, none of whom on the "EU monster" side get that very simple fact.
And it was Norway who started the whole suspension thing.
Andy Burnham wants to regain control over Greater Manchester bus services - timetables, frequency, fares. Stagecoach are objecting, which considering their near monopoly in southern Manchester for 25 years isn't a surprise.
Bus deregulation has in so many places led to private monopolies where the operator can do what they like with no option from local authorities to do anything about it. Labour could have changed this in government but decided not to.
to be fair, it has been 11 years since the last Labour government.....
Just to put in a bit of local knowledge - While I'm personally keen to explore the potential for a better passenger officer which bus reform offers - in particular linked fares between bus and other modes - South Manchester is actually one of the few areas of the country where there isn't a particular monopoly. There are a whole bundle of different operators competing on the most profitable routes (such as the Oxford Road/Wilmslow Road corridor). This has actually driven down fares, and is one of the few examples of bus deregulation working to the benefit of its consumers. Regular bus passengers in South Manchester are pretty well served. What it doesn't do is provide an attractive offer to those who aren't its consumers - the occasional travellers, those making journeys not on the established corridors, etc. Bus reform offers an opportunity to improve the offer to that market, which currently feels it has no option but to drive.
Since I’ve been assured that no one really wants Indyref2, presumably this is a massive tactical error by the EssEnnPee and should be welcomed by Unionists everywhere.
If the SNP do stand as 'SNP Indyref2' then it may well put off a few voters who are happy to keep Sturgeon as FM but do not want indyref2 anytime soon.
In any case the decision on any meaningful indyref2 will remain with Westminster regardless
Big 'worried the SNP will get a majority on an explicit promise of Indyref2' energy.
And yet to listen to the Brexiteers on here the EU/EMA are in charge and are dictating to all their stupidity. Which is true - except that it ISN'T. Member states are free to do as they see fit, which is why we have the contrasting polar opposites of Belgium jabbing away and Italy arresting the vaccine for witchcraft.
Have we reached the stage yet where Brexiteer ultras are arguing that the EU should be MORE centralised and integrated?
Does all this straw man nonsense make those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves? Apologies if I have missed it but I have not seen anyone on here say that this is all the fault of the EMA or that it should be. But carry on, I know its a bit embarrassing right now.
Another one who has no confidence in the UK being able to do its own thing. As indeed it did over vaccines, given that we were nominally still EU members when the VTF was set up.
Do you lot understand nothing?
I know, you're embarrassed. I won't rub it in.
I'm embarrassed on your behalf. You think the UK would have been so craven as not to be able to stand up to the mighty EU when that is in effect exactly what happened.
Sure the EU were mega-dicks about much over the past few weeks but what consistently surprises me is the lack of confidence you Brexiters have over the UK's ability to forge its own path within or indeed outside EU membership. Perhaps it's only a PB thing.
You say you are a unionist. Then have some pride in what "your" country can achieve.
Its baffling. WE HAD TO LEAVE THE EU TO GET A VACCINE. Developed whilst in the transition period using EU laws and explicitly wouldn't have been delayed/blocked by EU membership according to the regulator who personally signed it off. Have we still had enough of experts? EU DICTATES TO STOP USING JAG TO KILL PEOPLE TO SPIKE UK. Despite national health agencies having the absolute say in what happens in their own state as we did and Belgium / Sweden etc are openly doing.
I get it. We don't like being dictated to by unelected political appointees we can't get rid of like Carrie SymondsDominic Cummings Ursula Von der Leyen. So we have to maintain the narrative of the Big Bad EU even if only to distract from our own cataclysmic fuck ups.
Maybe it is slowly dawning on some of the quicker ones that Brexit doesn't mean the EU disappears from our news?
just as once the seeds of doubt were planted in AZ by their botched trials many delusional people start seeing anything that happens in the vicinity of AZ as being caused by AZ, there are so many posters on here who are so addicted to the paranoid delusional politics of grievance that they need to see EU anti-British plots everywhere.
The EU is acquiescing by silence to the madness running rampant across member states.
Thailand: "Hey, there might be a problem with....actually, no there isn't. As you were."
EU " .............................................................................................. "
So "the EU" hasn't said "blood clots", but most of your posts are just crap you've made up, so par for the course.
The EMA, which is surely the relevant EU body has actually said that vaccinations should continue.
So why is nobody in the EU pointing to the EMA and saying "This. Now get back to jabbing."?
It's because there's ANOTHER FUCKING AGENDA. Their initial mis-steps are being compounded by every next step they take. Just have the human decency, UvdL, to go in front of the media and say "So we go to it wrong on the AZ thing. It's actually great. It will save lots of lives across the EU." Instead, her actions are governed by not ever admitting failings in an EU system.
Von der Leyen may be a worse than useless idiot who should resign, but what has she got to do with the blood clot mess? precisely nothing in reality, but on Planet Brexit she has to be dragged into everything.
afaik she was demanding more doses of the vaccine. as usual your posts don't make any logical sense even on their own terms, let alone having any connection to reality.
Try this. The EU has a huge issue with self-importance. For example, it demands we take their "Ambassador". That we won't really grates with them.
We go through a messy divorce, a divorce that really, really hurts that sense of self importance. It has put back their Project. Worse still, at the first big post-divorce test of arm-wrestling, we don't so much smash their arm to the table, as rip it off and wave it around. The post-Brexit UK has really got under their skin. Unlike the vaccines. "We are the EU - how can we not be first in line for vaccines? Something must be done! Kneel down, suppliers, before our sense of entitlement."
So the EU tells a bit of a fib - that we are cheating on contracts to supply the UK first. See, it says here in the contracts... OK, so it doesn't. But they must still be cheating. They must be exporting what is rightly OUR stuff to get ahead of us. Jesus - the Brits have vaxxed HOW MANY? So we will put in place measures to ban it being exported. Hah! That will show them!"
"What "border down the middle of Ireland"? What "Good Friday Agreement"? Bollocks....well, say it was just an idea we were kicking around, it wasn't actually implemented....oh, it was implemented?. Bollocks."
"Thank you, Mr President, yes "quasi-ineffective", great line.... He does know we do actually WANT these vaccines doesn't he. Oh, really?....We don't? They don't work. Hmmm. You sure? Because the Brits are looking very healthy. The are even booking holidays...God, I'd love a holiday."
"It's OK, the EMA can get it back on tra....oh, nobody is listening to them? Nobody is listening to us? They have stopped using the AZ vaccine? What, even Germany? Especially Germany? Whilst the UK are continuing to - HOW FUCKING MANY? Jesus, at this rate the only people left alive in Europe are going to be the fucking over-fifty year old Brexiteers..."
"It is clear what Brussels needs. More power to end this shit show. No, I really DIDN'T start this shit show, thank you. For that, you can go and man a border post in Northern Ireland. Oh. Really? Burnt down, you say? Why? It was an entirely workable arrangement. JEEEEEZUS - "BBC: Boris Johnson has given everyone a jab with an Easter egg with his face on it"? Shameless. Fucking shameless.... So, tell me about this aid package of Sputnik jabs from Vladimir. What "gas pipeline"...?"
And so the EU soap ambles on a for few more episodes.
We've left, mate. Hundreds of words about the EU. Talk about Stockholm Syndrome.
Tell them we've left. The EU seem not to have accepted it. They re still trying to fuck over our vaccines like we are still in their club....
Petal. They are being dicks over it all but they are acting in what they perceive to be the best interests of themselves. And you have it exactly wrong: they are not behaving as if we are still in their club, they are behaving as if we are a third country.
Outrageous behaviour on their part. Britain - a "third country" like Uzbekistan. Or would be had third country status been a clear objective and demand of the UK negotiating team so that we can do what we want.
Its almost as if a cabinet who didn't know the importance of Dover - Calais didn't have a clue what "third party status" meant aside from its purpose as a political slogan.
And yet to listen to the Brexiteers on here the EU/EMA are in charge and are dictating to all their stupidity. Which is true - except that it ISN'T. Member states are free to do as they see fit, which is why we have the contrasting polar opposites of Belgium jabbing away and Italy arresting the vaccine for witchcraft.
Have we reached the stage yet where Brexiteer ultras are arguing that the EU should be MORE centralised and integrated?
Does all this straw man nonsense make those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves? Apologies if I have missed it but I have not seen anyone on here say that this is all the fault of the EMA or that it should be. But carry on, I know its a bit embarrassing right now.
You wilfully miss the point. The EMA provides advice to the member states national health agencies who then make the national decision. There is no big bad EU dictating to members to stop using the Oxford jag - members are free to make their own decisions as they are.
That "the EU" keeps getting the blame is what is funny - it isn't the EU dictating to Italy to impound vials or Ireland to say "careful now" on national TV or Belgium to say "we're continuing with our vaccination programme".
No one is saying that it is. No one.
The EU did start the row with AZ through UvdL's idiocy and inability to read a contract. They completely screwed up the commissioning process. The EMA took longer than they should have to approve AZ and certainly added to the "second best" vibe that had already started with their uncertainty about its suitability for older age groups.
But no one is pretending that the current decisions of Germany, France, Italy, Spain and others are the responsibility of anyone but their respective governments. Why do you feel the need to create straw men and straw arguments? I repeat, if the EMA can bring sanity back to these countries' policies I would welcome it. But it will remain the decision of those countries what goes in their citizens arms.
A tip for anyone moving to the countryside: never join the village WhatsApp group.
It is poison.
A tip for everyone. Don’t use WhatsApp, deleting it was the best thing I did last year.
I mean, I use WhatsApp and other similar apps to keep in contact with my mates. Be it comments on politics, music, organising Zoom calls, or Newcastle United's woes. My life would be significantly worse without it.
Since I’ve been assured that no one really wants Indyref2, presumably this is a massive tactical error by the EssEnnPee and should be welcomed by Unionists everywhere.
If the SNP do stand as 'SNP Indyref2' then it may well put off a few voters who are happy to keep Sturgeon as FM but do not want indyref2 anytime soon.
In any case the decision on any meaningful indyref2 will remain with Westminster regardless
Indeed. Even Shagger left the door open when he refused to back your endlessly stated position that he would refuse any new referendum.
Its almost as if you don't speak for the Prime Minister.
And yet to listen to the Brexiteers on here the EU/EMA are in charge and are dictating to all their stupidity. Which is true - except that it ISN'T. Member states are free to do as they see fit, which is why we have the contrasting polar opposites of Belgium jabbing away and Italy arresting the vaccine for witchcraft.
Have we reached the stage yet where Brexiteer ultras are arguing that the EU should be MORE centralised and integrated?
Does all this straw man nonsense make those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves? Apologies if I have missed it but I have not seen anyone on here say that this is all the fault of the EMA or that it should be. But carry on, I know its a bit embarrassing right now.
You wilfully miss the point. The EMA provides advice to the member states national health agencies who then make the national decision. There is no big bad EU dictating to members to stop using the Oxford jag - members are free to make their own decisions as they are.
That "the EU" keeps getting the blame is what is funny - it isn't the EU dictating to Italy to impound vials or Ireland to say "careful now" on national TV or Belgium to say "we're continuing with our vaccination programme".
It's extraordinary. We have a set of supposedly bright PB contributors, none of whom on the "EU monster" side get that very simple fact.
There is plenty to criticise the EU, and indeed EU member states (and the UK too for that matter), over the rubbish handling of the pandemic without flying off into complete irrationality.
It's like the other day, when someone was blaming von der Leyen for EU countries giving less than the UK in overseas aid. Despite the facts that - it's not in her power - when the UK was an actual EU country it was giving 0.7% and now it's left it wants to drop it to 0.5%
Logical thinking flies out the window as soon as Europe is mentioned. It's a bit like the US Republicans who are reflexively against anything if they think the "Liberals" are in favour of it.
It was me who said that about overseas aid and I named vDL, Macron and others for not doing it. You flew off the handle in a red rage because your beloved EU was included in the mix.
Just because its not in her power is not relevant. She is happy to promote and talk about #TeamEurope when it suits her interests, she could be pushing for #TeamEurope working to #standtogether to meet the 0.7% level if she was bothered by it. But she's not.
Since I’ve been assured that no one really wants Indyref2, presumably this is a massive tactical error by the EssEnnPee and should be welcomed by Unionists everywhere.
If the SNP do stand as 'SNP Indyref2' then it may well put off a few voters who are happy to keep Sturgeon as FM but do not want indyref2 anytime soon.
In any case the decision on any meaningful indyref2 will remain with Westminster regardless
Big 'worried the SNP will get a majority on an explicit promise of Indyref2' energy.
And yet to listen to the Brexiteers on here the EU/EMA are in charge and are dictating to all their stupidity. Which is true - except that it ISN'T. Member states are free to do as they see fit, which is why we have the contrasting polar opposites of Belgium jabbing away and Italy arresting the vaccine for witchcraft.
Have we reached the stage yet where Brexiteer ultras are arguing that the EU should be MORE centralised and integrated?
Does all this straw man nonsense make those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves? Apologies if I have missed it but I have not seen anyone on here say that this is all the fault of the EMA or that it should be. But carry on, I know its a bit embarrassing right now.
You wilfully miss the point. The EMA provides advice to the member states national health agencies who then make the national decision. There is no big bad EU dictating to members to stop using the Oxford jag - members are free to make their own decisions as they are.
That "the EU" keeps getting the blame is what is funny - it isn't the EU dictating to Italy to impound vials or Ireland to say "careful now" on national TV or Belgium to say "we're continuing with our vaccination programme".
No one is saying that it is. No one.
The EU did start the row with AZ through UvdL's idiocy and inability to read a contract. They completely screwed up the commissioning process. The EMA took longer than they should have to approve AZ and certainly added to the "second best" vibe that had already started with their uncertainty about its suitability for older age groups.
But no one is pretending that the current decisions of Germany, France, Italy, Spain and others are the responsibility of anyone but their respective governments. Why do you feel the need to create straw men and straw arguments? I repeat, if the EMA can bring sanity back to these countries' policies I would welcome it. But it will remain the decision of those countries what goes in their citizens arms.
David give me a break. "No one is saying that it is".
Literally everyone on here who has a stated view on this elides the EU and EU Member States. They start from UvdL and the AZN contract and end up blaming "the EU" for Belgium deciding to continue using the vaccine.
You yourself idly wondered if this episode (sovereign nations deciding on their own vaccine policy) would make "those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves".
To his credit, Blair's motivation in all this is fairly clearly about protecting peace in Northern Ireland. There are too many more concerned with process and making assertions about "the UK/(occasionally EU) made its bed it can lie in it", whilst ignoring the fact that the stated purpose of the protocol is to protect the Good Friday agreement and Northern Ireland peace, not about winners or losers between the UK/EU. If the arrangements currently in place under the Protocol aren't working to the purpose intended (whether due to issues at the Irish border OR the Irish Sea border) then it is encumbent on both sides to adapt and be flexible to revise them.
(Legally) enforcing the agreement as written won't help it meet its purpose if it doesn't work.
You're right, of course, but the Irish border and NI peace has only ever been a useful tool for the EU to try and trap the UK into vassalage. That's the lens with which the EU views the border, how best to use it to hurt the UK, they clearly give no fucks about NI peace and ensuring separatists and loyalists are both content with the arrangements.
Ultimately they could have done away with the sea border entirely and just lived with a very small open border with the UK on the island of Ireland. Instead they chose this overly legalistic approach to create as much difficulty for the UK government as possible to extricate itself from the EU.
I don't understand the issues of NI, I've read some pieces from people who do we they all say that the NI protocol threatens the peace in NI so for that reason it either needs to be rewritten or just junked entirely. The last thing we need is a resurgence of bombs and people dying over a conflict that has been settled fir 20+ years.
So all the EU had to do was bin its long standing and pre-existing border rules to just have an open border with the outside world? Fine! Except that we left at least in part because of the EU's lax borders. We wanted to Take Back Control of our borders to stop forrin wandering in to steal our jobs and our wimmin. Can't do that with an open border can we?
"Ah, just don't allow them to work / claim benefits" I hear as a reply. Yes, thats call an illegal immigrant. The type that really wind gammoneers up the most. Your solution is to have an open door to undocumented illegals. Bravo.
There’s no border control of people between any and all of GB, UK, NI and RoI, there hasn’t been for decades, and no-one is proposing that there should be.
There shouldn't be for plants and animals either, just as there isn't for people.
We also need a mutual SPS equivalence arrangement with the EU.
And yet to listen to the Brexiteers on here the EU/EMA are in charge and are dictating to all their stupidity. Which is true - except that it ISN'T. Member states are free to do as they see fit, which is why we have the contrasting polar opposites of Belgium jabbing away and Italy arresting the vaccine for witchcraft.
Have we reached the stage yet where Brexiteer ultras are arguing that the EU should be MORE centralised and integrated?
Does all this straw man nonsense make those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves? Apologies if I have missed it but I have not seen anyone on here say that this is all the fault of the EMA or that it should be. But carry on, I know its a bit embarrassing right now.
You wilfully miss the point. The EMA provides advice to the member states national health agencies who then make the national decision. There is no big bad EU dictating to members to stop using the Oxford jag - members are free to make their own decisions as they are.
That "the EU" keeps getting the blame is what is funny - it isn't the EU dictating to Italy to impound vials or Ireland to say "careful now" on national TV or Belgium to say "we're continuing with our vaccination programme".
No one is saying that it is. No one.
You are literally foaming on about how we no longer have to listen to the opinions of Germany and France. When it comes to healthcare provision in a pandemic NOBODY need listen to them including neighbouring Belgium and Italy. You keep mentioning the EMA - what about it? The EMA didn't prevent us from creating the VTF, didn't prevent the Italians finding satan in glass vials, didn't prevent the Belgians scratching their heads and continuing to vaccinate.
The EU is not the Big Bad. It is not dictating to members. If Germany wants to be stupid thats up to Germany. But it isn't directing the Italians to be insane.
To his credit, Blair's motivation in all this is fairly clearly about protecting peace in Northern Ireland. There are too many more concerned with process and making assertions about "the UK/(occasionally EU) made its bed it can lie in it", whilst ignoring the fact that the stated purpose of the protocol is to protect the Good Friday agreement and Northern Ireland peace, not about winners or losers between the UK/EU. If the arrangements currently in place under the Protocol aren't working to the purpose intended (whether due to issues at the Irish border OR the Irish Sea border) then it is encumbent on both sides to adapt and be flexible to revise them.
(Legally) enforcing the agreement as written won't help it meet its purpose if it doesn't work.
At the heart of the Blair proposal is equivalence agreement on SPS - ag/food. Much of the rest of it is the sentiment that politicians ought to play more nicely; good luck and all that.
The question is whether equivalence on SPS crosses a red lines or lines, and whose. Ireland cannot be resolved until some of NI, RoI, UK and EU alter their red lines, as the present agreement (which is an elaborate ruse) is the best that can be done within them.
What impact, for example, does SPS have on UK use of GM or GE food if we wish to adopt a more reasoned position than the EU effective outright ban on GM production?
What on standards about the ban on cruel production such as traditional Foie Gras?
Yes. To do that either EU or UK red lines have to move. Once you allow red lines to move then of course everyone else's suggestions for red line moving are up for grabs.
What is politically fascinating is that the island of Ireland presents an immovable object/irresistible force problem and has done from day 1 of Brexit and all parties are still dancing around it. No side dares admit there is no solution within current configurations.
I think that's right, and ultimately it really is primarily a British decision. Do we want freedom to change EU rules on agri products or not? If we do, then of course border checks will be needed to prevent products in either direction that don't meet the rules of the other. And of course that will be inconvenient and costly. On the other hand, more freedom of maneouvre would be nice. What have you decided, Mr Johnson?
Since I’ve been assured that no one really wants Indyref2, presumably this is a massive tactical error by the EssEnnPee and should be welcomed by Unionists everywhere.
If the SNP do stand as 'SNP Indyref2' then it may well put off a few voters who are happy to keep Sturgeon as FM but do not want indyref2 anytime soon.
In any case the decision on any meaningful indyref2 will remain with Westminster regardless
Big 'worried the SNP will get a majority on an explicit promise of Indyref2' energy.
You seem to believe that there a lots of passionate indy supporters who have hitherto been voting for Unionist parties. I think that conversely there are many more SNP voters who are lukewarm and ambivalent about Indy. It will be interesting to see who is right. If it's you, I'll acknowledge the fact and take my hat off to you.
Its a long way to sail to Port Stanley having successfully subdued the perfidious Scotch. The Tories have spent 11 years taking an axe to British military capabilities - are we sure we have the resources to put down the Picts and the Argies as well?
And yet to listen to the Brexiteers on here the EU/EMA are in charge and are dictating to all their stupidity. Which is true - except that it ISN'T. Member states are free to do as they see fit, which is why we have the contrasting polar opposites of Belgium jabbing away and Italy arresting the vaccine for witchcraft.
Have we reached the stage yet where Brexiteer ultras are arguing that the EU should be MORE centralised and integrated?
Does all this straw man nonsense make those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves? Apologies if I have missed it but I have not seen anyone on here say that this is all the fault of the EMA or that it should be. But carry on, I know its a bit embarrassing right now.
You wilfully miss the point. The EMA provides advice to the member states national health agencies who then make the national decision. There is no big bad EU dictating to members to stop using the Oxford jag - members are free to make their own decisions as they are.
That "the EU" keeps getting the blame is what is funny - it isn't the EU dictating to Italy to impound vials or Ireland to say "careful now" on national TV or Belgium to say "we're continuing with our vaccination programme".
No one is saying that it is. No one.
The EU did start the row with AZ through UvdL's idiocy and inability to read a contract. They completely screwed up the commissioning process. The EMA took longer than they should have to approve AZ and certainly added to the "second best" vibe that had already started with their uncertainty about its suitability for older age groups.
But no one is pretending that the current decisions of Germany, France, Italy, Spain and others are the responsibility of anyone but their respective governments. Why do you feel the need to create straw men and straw arguments? I repeat, if the EMA can bring sanity back to these countries' policies I would welcome it. But it will remain the decision of those countries what goes in their citizens arms.
David give me a break. "No one is saying that it is".
Literally everyone on here who has a stated view on this elides the EU and EU Member States. They start from UvdL and the AZN contract and end up blaming "the EU" for Belgium deciding to continue using the vaccine.
You yourself idly wondered if this episode (sovereign nations deciding on their own vaccine policy) would make "those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves".
I am wondering why, after waiting so long for the EMA to make a decision on various vaccines, the various countries that have it as their regulator decide to just ignore them.
just as once the seeds of doubt were planted in AZ by their botched trials many delusional people start seeing anything that happens in the vicinity of AZ as being caused by AZ, there are so many posters on here who are so addicted to the paranoid delusional politics of grievance that they need to see EU anti-British plots everywhere.
The EU is acquiescing by silence to the madness running rampant across member states.
Thailand: "Hey, there might be a problem with....actually, no there isn't. As you were."
EU " .............................................................................................. "
So "the EU" hasn't said "blood clots", but most of your posts are just crap you've made up, so par for the course.
The EMA, which is surely the relevant EU body has actually said that vaccinations should continue.
So why is nobody in the EU pointing to the EMA and saying "This. Now get back to jabbing."?
It's because there's ANOTHER FUCKING AGENDA. Their initial mis-steps are being compounded by every next step they take. Just have the human decency, UvdL, to go in front of the media and say "So we go to it wrong on the AZ thing. It's actually great. It will save lots of lives across the EU." Instead, her actions are governed by not ever admitting failings in an EU system.
Von der Leyen may be a worse than useless idiot who should resign, but what has she got to do with the blood clot mess? precisely nothing in reality, but on Planet Brexit she has to be dragged into everything.
afaik she was demanding more doses of the vaccine. as usual your posts don't make any logical sense even on their own terms, let alone having any connection to reality.
Try this. The EU has a huge issue with self-importance. For example, it demands we take their "Ambassador". That we won't really grates with them.
We go through a messy divorce, a divorce that really, really hurts that sense of self importance. It has put back their Project. Worse still, at the first big post-divorce test of arm-wrestling, we don't so much smash their arm to the table, as rip it off and wave it around. The post-Brexit UK has really got under their skin. Unlike the vaccines. "We are the EU - how can we not be first in line for vaccines? Something must be done! Kneel down, suppliers, before our sense of entitlement."
So the EU tells a bit of a fib - that we are cheating on contracts to supply the UK first. See, it says here in the contracts... OK, so it doesn't. But they must still be cheating. They must be exporting what is rightly OUR stuff to get ahead of us. Jesus - the Brits have vaxxed HOW MANY? So we will put in place measures to ban it being exported. Hah! That will show them!"
"What "border down the middle of Ireland"? What "Good Friday Agreement"? Bollocks....well, say it was just an idea we were kicking around, it wasn't actually implemented....oh, it was implemented?. Bollocks."
"Thank you, Mr President, yes "quasi-ineffective", great line.... He does know we do actually WANT these vaccines doesn't he. Oh, really?....We don't? They don't work. Hmmm. You sure? Because the Brits are looking very healthy. The are even booking holidays...God, I'd love a holiday."
"It's OK, the EMA can get it back on tra....oh, nobody is listening to them? Nobody is listening to us? They have stopped using the AZ vaccine? What, even Germany? Especially Germany? Whilst the UK are continuing to - HOW FUCKING MANY? Jesus, at this rate the only people left alive in Europe are going to be the fucking over-fifty year old Brexiteers..."
"It is clear what Brussels needs. More power to end this shit show. No, I really DIDN'T start this shit show, thank you. For that, you can go and man a border post in Northern Ireland. Oh. Really? Burnt down, you say? Why? It was an entirely workable arrangement. JEEEEEZUS - "BBC: Boris Johnson has given everyone a jab with an Easter egg with his face on it"? Shameless. Fucking shameless.... So, tell me about this aid package of Sputnik jabs from Vladimir. What "gas pipeline"...?"
And so the EU soap ambles on a for few more episodes.
Again nothing in what you have written to support the EU being responsible for the blood clots mess. That you don't seem to notice this indisputable fact just shows how incapable you are of normal thought processes as soon as "the EU" comes into question.
And yet to listen to the Brexiteers on here the EU/EMA are in charge and are dictating to all their stupidity. Which is true - except that it ISN'T. Member states are free to do as they see fit, which is why we have the contrasting polar opposites of Belgium jabbing away and Italy arresting the vaccine for witchcraft.
Have we reached the stage yet where Brexiteer ultras are arguing that the EU should be MORE centralised and integrated?
Does all this straw man nonsense make those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves? Apologies if I have missed it but I have not seen anyone on here say that this is all the fault of the EMA or that it should be. But carry on, I know its a bit embarrassing right now.
You wilfully miss the point. The EMA provides advice to the member states national health agencies who then make the national decision. There is no big bad EU dictating to members to stop using the Oxford jag - members are free to make their own decisions as they are.
That "the EU" keeps getting the blame is what is funny - it isn't the EU dictating to Italy to impound vials or Ireland to say "careful now" on national TV or Belgium to say "we're continuing with our vaccination programme".
No one is saying that it is. No one.
You are literally foaming on about how we no longer have to listen to the opinions of Germany and France. When it comes to healthcare provision in a pandemic NOBODY need listen to them including neighbouring Belgium and Italy. You keep mentioning the EMA - what about it? The EMA didn't prevent us from creating the VTF, didn't prevent the Italians finding satan in glass vials, didn't prevent the Belgians scratching their heads and continuing to vaccinate.
The EU is not the Big Bad. It is not dictating to members. If Germany wants to be stupid thats up to Germany. But it isn't directing the Italians to be insane.
No you're not entirely right.
The EU haven't made this decision but they have laid the groundwork for it by like an arsonist undermining the Astrazeneca vaccine months ago - and then their obsession they encourage of "unity" and "solidarity" between members such that when Germany acts France may not be obliged technically to follow but they feel compelled to.
The EU started this months ago when they went to war with Astrazeneca in a very public and silly manner. They may not be the ones acting today but others are following in their footsteps, actions have consequences.
To his credit, Blair's motivation in all this is fairly clearly about protecting peace in Northern Ireland. There are too many more concerned with process and making assertions about "the UK/(occasionally EU) made its bed it can lie in it", whilst ignoring the fact that the stated purpose of the protocol is to protect the Good Friday agreement and Northern Ireland peace, not about winners or losers between the UK/EU. If the arrangements currently in place under the Protocol aren't working to the purpose intended (whether due to issues at the Irish border OR the Irish Sea border) then it is encumbent on both sides to adapt and be flexible to revise them.
(Legally) enforcing the agreement as written won't help it meet its purpose if it doesn't work.
You're right, of course, but the Irish border and NI peace has only ever been a useful tool for the EU to try and trap the UK into vassalage. That's the lens with which the EU views the border, how best to use it to hurt the UK, they clearly give no fucks about NI peace and ensuring separatists and loyalists are both content with the arrangements.
Ultimately they could have done away with the sea border entirely and just lived with a very small open border with the UK on the island of Ireland. Instead they chose this overly legalistic approach to create as much difficulty for the UK government as possible to extricate itself from the EU.
I don't understand the issues of NI, I've read some pieces from people who do we they all say that the NI protocol threatens the peace in NI so for that reason it either needs to be rewritten or just junked entirely. The last thing we need is a resurgence of bombs and people dying over a conflict that has been settled fir 20+ years.
So all the EU had to do was bin its long standing and pre-existing border rules to just have an open border with the outside world? Fine! Except that we left at least in part because of the EU's lax borders. We wanted to Take Back Control of our borders to stop forrin wandering in to steal our jobs and our wimmin. Can't do that with an open border can we?
"Ah, just don't allow them to work / claim benefits" I hear as a reply. Yes, thats call an illegal immigrant. The type that really wind gammoneers up the most. Your solution is to have an open door to undocumented illegals. Bravo.
There’s no border control of people between any and all of GB, UK, NI and RoI, there hasn’t been for decades, and no-one is proposing that there should be.
There shouldn't be for plants and animals either, just as there isn't for people.
We also need a mutual SPS equivalence arrangement with the EU.
Then, lots of these problems will go away.
But border pedantry was one of the few tangible wins for the EU, I'm almost certain they won't give it up easily.
Since I’ve been assured that no one really wants Indyref2, presumably this is a massive tactical error by the EssEnnPee and should be welcomed by Unionists everywhere.
If the SNP do stand as 'SNP Indyref2' then it may well put off a few voters who are happy to keep Sturgeon as FM but do not want indyref2 anytime soon.
In any case the decision on any meaningful indyref2 will remain with Westminster regardless
Big 'worried the SNP will get a majority on an explicit promise of Indyref2' energy.
You seem to believe that there a lots of passionate indy supporters who have hitherto been voting for Unionist parties. I think that conversely there are many more SNP voters who are lukewarm and ambivalent about Indy. It will be interesting to see who is right. If it's you, I'll acknowledge the fact and take my hat off to you.
It will make for a fascinating campaign and it will be firmly in SNP comfort zones. The Tories desperately want to make the election about the incompetent incompetence of Sturgeon and the SNP ("instead vote Tory and get PROPER corruption and incompetence") and this move will sink it faster than today's no confidence in Nippy vote.
Italy’s prime minister, Mario Draghi, warned on Friday that the country was facing a “new wave of contagion,” driven by more infectious variants of the coronavirus. He has put an army general in charge of the vaccine rollout and hoped to increase inoculations from 100,000 a day to 500,000.
But that was before the AstraZeneca fears spread more widely.
On Monday, Iacopo Benini, a 32-year-old professor, had his AstraZeneca vaccination appointment canceled 20 minutes before he arrived for his shot in Milan. “Who is going to accept getting AstraZeneca now?” he said.
just as once the seeds of doubt were planted in AZ by their botched trials many delusional people start seeing anything that happens in the vicinity of AZ as being caused by AZ, there are so many posters on here who are so addicted to the paranoid delusional politics of grievance that they need to see EU anti-British plots everywhere.
The EU is acquiescing by silence to the madness running rampant across member states.
Thailand: "Hey, there might be a problem with....actually, no there isn't. As you were."
EU " .............................................................................................. "
So "the EU" hasn't said "blood clots", but most of your posts are just crap you've made up, so par for the course.
The EMA, which is surely the relevant EU body has actually said that vaccinations should continue.
So why is nobody in the EU pointing to the EMA and saying "This. Now get back to jabbing."?
It's because there's ANOTHER FUCKING AGENDA. Their initial mis-steps are being compounded by every next step they take. Just have the human decency, UvdL, to go in front of the media and say "So we go to it wrong on the AZ thing. It's actually great. It will save lots of lives across the EU." Instead, her actions are governed by not ever admitting failings in an EU system.
Von der Leyen may be a worse than useless idiot who should resign, but what has she got to do with the blood clot mess? precisely nothing in reality, but on Planet Brexit she has to be dragged into everything.
afaik she was demanding more doses of the vaccine. as usual your posts don't make any logical sense even on their own terms, let alone having any connection to reality.
Try this. The EU has a huge issue with self-importance. For example, it demands we take their "Ambassador". That we won't really grates with them.
We go through a messy divorce, a divorce that really, really hurts that sense of self importance. It has put back their Project. Worse still, at the first big post-divorce test of arm-wrestling, we don't so much smash their arm to the table, as rip it off and wave it around. The post-Brexit UK has really got under their skin. Unlike the vaccines. "We are the EU - how can we not be first in line for vaccines? Something must be done! Kneel down, suppliers, before our sense of entitlement."
So the EU tells a bit of a fib - that we are cheating on contracts to supply the UK first. See, it says here in the contracts... OK, so it doesn't. But they must still be cheating. They must be exporting what is rightly OUR stuff to get ahead of us. Jesus - the Brits have vaxxed HOW MANY? So we will put in place measures to ban it being exported. Hah! That will show them!"
"What "border down the middle of Ireland"? What "Good Friday Agreement"? Bollocks....well, say it was just an idea we were kicking around, it wasn't actually implemented....oh, it was implemented?. Bollocks."
"Thank you, Mr President, yes "quasi-ineffective", great line.... He does know we do actually WANT these vaccines doesn't he. Oh, really?....We don't? They don't work. Hmmm. You sure? Because the Brits are looking very healthy. The are even booking holidays...God, I'd love a holiday."
"It's OK, the EMA can get it back on tra....oh, nobody is listening to them? Nobody is listening to us? They have stopped using the AZ vaccine? What, even Germany? Especially Germany? Whilst the UK are continuing to - HOW FUCKING MANY? Jesus, at this rate the only people left alive in Europe are going to be the fucking over-fifty year old Brexiteers..."
"It is clear what Brussels needs. More power to end this shit show. No, I really DIDN'T start this shit show, thank you. For that, you can go and man a border post in Northern Ireland. Oh. Really? Burnt down, you say? Why? It was an entirely workable arrangement. JEEEEEZUS - "BBC: Boris Johnson has given everyone a jab with an Easter egg with his face on it"? Shameless. Fucking shameless.... So, tell me about this aid package of Sputnik jabs from Vladimir. What "gas pipeline"...?"
And so the EU soap ambles on a for few more episodes.
Again nothing in what you have written to support the EU being responsible for the blood clots mess. That you don't seem to notice this indisputable fact just shows how incapable you are of normal thought processes as soon as "the EU" comes into question.
It’s an embarassing stream of consciousness, railing against imagined slights and conspiracy theories.
I am about 95% sure that is not true either. Far more men suffer violence than women. Of course far, far more of the perpetrators of violence are men but that is a different statement.
And yet to listen to the Brexiteers on here the EU/EMA are in charge and are dictating to all their stupidity. Which is true - except that it ISN'T. Member states are free to do as they see fit, which is why we have the contrasting polar opposites of Belgium jabbing away and Italy arresting the vaccine for witchcraft.
Have we reached the stage yet where Brexiteer ultras are arguing that the EU should be MORE centralised and integrated?
Does all this straw man nonsense make those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves? Apologies if I have missed it but I have not seen anyone on here say that this is all the fault of the EMA or that it should be. But carry on, I know its a bit embarrassing right now.
You wilfully miss the point. The EMA provides advice to the member states national health agencies who then make the national decision. There is no big bad EU dictating to members to stop using the Oxford jag - members are free to make their own decisions as they are.
That "the EU" keeps getting the blame is what is funny - it isn't the EU dictating to Italy to impound vials or Ireland to say "careful now" on national TV or Belgium to say "we're continuing with our vaccination programme".
No one is saying that it is. No one.
The EU did start the row with AZ through UvdL's idiocy and inability to read a contract. They completely screwed up the commissioning process. The EMA took longer than they should have to approve AZ and certainly added to the "second best" vibe that had already started with their uncertainty about its suitability for older age groups.
But no one is pretending that the current decisions of Germany, France, Italy, Spain and others are the responsibility of anyone but their respective governments. Why do you feel the need to create straw men and straw arguments? I repeat, if the EMA can bring sanity back to these countries' policies I would welcome it. But it will remain the decision of those countries what goes in their citizens arms.
David give me a break. "No one is saying that it is".
Literally everyone on here who has a stated view on this elides the EU and EU Member States. They start from UvdL and the AZN contract and end up blaming "the EU" for Belgium deciding to continue using the vaccine.
You yourself idly wondered if this episode (sovereign nations deciding on their own vaccine policy) would make "those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves".
I am wondering why, after waiting so long for the EMA to make a decision on various vaccines, the various countries that have it as their regulator decide to just ignore them.
It is a crazy system, the planet does not need 200 odd national medical authorities. I wonder whats the biggest country that just relies on either the WHO or other big regulators to decide for them.
And yet to listen to the Brexiteers on here the EU/EMA are in charge and are dictating to all their stupidity. Which is true - except that it ISN'T. Member states are free to do as they see fit, which is why we have the contrasting polar opposites of Belgium jabbing away and Italy arresting the vaccine for witchcraft.
Have we reached the stage yet where Brexiteer ultras are arguing that the EU should be MORE centralised and integrated?
Does all this straw man nonsense make those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves? Apologies if I have missed it but I have not seen anyone on here say that this is all the fault of the EMA or that it should be. But carry on, I know its a bit embarrassing right now.
You wilfully miss the point. The EMA provides advice to the member states national health agencies who then make the national decision. There is no big bad EU dictating to members to stop using the Oxford jag - members are free to make their own decisions as they are.
That "the EU" keeps getting the blame is what is funny - it isn't the EU dictating to Italy to impound vials or Ireland to say "careful now" on national TV or Belgium to say "we're continuing with our vaccination programme".
No one is saying that it is. No one.
The EU did start the row with AZ through UvdL's idiocy and inability to read a contract. They completely screwed up the commissioning process. The EMA took longer than they should have to approve AZ and certainly added to the "second best" vibe that had already started with their uncertainty about its suitability for older age groups.
But no one is pretending that the current decisions of Germany, France, Italy, Spain and others are the responsibility of anyone but their respective governments. Why do you feel the need to create straw men and straw arguments? I repeat, if the EMA can bring sanity back to these countries' policies I would welcome it. But it will remain the decision of those countries what goes in their citizens arms.
David give me a break. "No one is saying that it is".
Literally everyone on here who has a stated view on this elides the EU and EU Member States. They start from UvdL and the AZN contract and end up blaming "the EU" for Belgium deciding to continue using the vaccine.
You yourself idly wondered if this episode (sovereign nations deciding on their own vaccine policy) would make "those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves".
I am wondering why, after waiting so long for the EMA to make a decision on various vaccines, the various countries that have it as their regulator decide to just ignore them.
Sovereignty?
There is another element to this. Up until Brexit, the MHRA was the de facto EU vaccine regulator and expert. Had we still been members then all the good stuff which we did (eg rolling review, etc) would likely have been utilised by "the EU" also (ie by other Member State regulatory bodies).
So there is a theory that our leaving the EU fucked them. I know people will point out the vaccine expertise of other Member States regulatory bodies but the MHRA was the acknowledged leader in the vaccine field and informed, pre-Brexit, just about all EU vaccine policy.
A volunteer tory militia will be dragooned to occupy trenches at San Carlos. But they've got to get home in time for The Chase and to take their hypertension pills.
And yet to listen to the Brexiteers on here the EU/EMA are in charge and are dictating to all their stupidity. Which is true - except that it ISN'T. Member states are free to do as they see fit, which is why we have the contrasting polar opposites of Belgium jabbing away and Italy arresting the vaccine for witchcraft.
Have we reached the stage yet where Brexiteer ultras are arguing that the EU should be MORE centralised and integrated?
Does all this straw man nonsense make those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves? Apologies if I have missed it but I have not seen anyone on here say that this is all the fault of the EMA or that it should be. But carry on, I know its a bit embarrassing right now.
You wilfully miss the point. The EMA provides advice to the member states national health agencies who then make the national decision. There is no big bad EU dictating to members to stop using the Oxford jag - members are free to make their own decisions as they are.
That "the EU" keeps getting the blame is what is funny - it isn't the EU dictating to Italy to impound vials or Ireland to say "careful now" on national TV or Belgium to say "we're continuing with our vaccination programme".
No one is saying that it is. No one.
The EU did start the row with AZ through UvdL's idiocy and inability to read a contract. They completely screwed up the commissioning process. The EMA took longer than they should have to approve AZ and certainly added to the "second best" vibe that had already started with their uncertainty about its suitability for older age groups.
But no one is pretending that the current decisions of Germany, France, Italy, Spain and others are the responsibility of anyone but their respective governments. Why do you feel the need to create straw men and straw arguments? I repeat, if the EMA can bring sanity back to these countries' policies I would welcome it. But it will remain the decision of those countries what goes in their citizens arms.
David give me a break. "No one is saying that it is".
Literally everyone on here who has a stated view on this elides the EU and EU Member States. They start from UvdL and the AZN contract and end up blaming "the EU" for Belgium deciding to continue using the vaccine.
You yourself idly wondered if this episode (sovereign nations deciding on their own vaccine policy) would make "those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves".
I am wondering why, after waiting so long for the EMA to make a decision on various vaccines, the various countries that have it as their regulator decide to just ignore them.
It is a crazy system, the planet does not need 200 odd national medical authorities. I wonder whats the biggest country that just relies on either the WHO or other big regulators to decide for them.
That's why I'm not surprised a smattering of other non EMA-member countries have also paused their roll out. They aren't finding new evidence of something being wrong, they are just following what is going on in Europe.
I am about 95% sure that is not true either. Far more men suffer violence than women. Of course far, far more of the perpetrators of violence are men but that is a different statement.
I've always thought that it was young males who were most likely to be involved in acts of criminal violence. That was certainly my experience when I was ....erm.... a young male.
I am about 95% sure that is not true either. Far more men suffer violence than women. Of course far, far more of the perpetrators of violence are men but that is a different statement.
Keir’s tweets remind me of ad copy after too many clients have had their input.
I am about 95% sure that is not true either. Far more men suffer violence than women. Of course far, far more of the perpetrators of violence are men but that is a different statement.
I agree, but could Starmer be referring to reported figures - could that justify his statement>?
Is it 53% or 80%? Consequences and policy challenges for each. Sorry but this seems to be another SKS bottle job. If it's 80% then go all guns blazing. If it's 53% then you need to come up with a policy solution that incorporates the inevitable #menarevictimstoo charges.
And yet to listen to the Brexiteers on here the EU/EMA are in charge and are dictating to all their stupidity. Which is true - except that it ISN'T. Member states are free to do as they see fit, which is why we have the contrasting polar opposites of Belgium jabbing away and Italy arresting the vaccine for witchcraft.
Have we reached the stage yet where Brexiteer ultras are arguing that the EU should be MORE centralised and integrated?
Does all this straw man nonsense make those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves? Apologies if I have missed it but I have not seen anyone on here say that this is all the fault of the EMA or that it should be. But carry on, I know its a bit embarrassing right now.
You wilfully miss the point. The EMA provides advice to the member states national health agencies who then make the national decision. There is no big bad EU dictating to members to stop using the Oxford jag - members are free to make their own decisions as they are.
That "the EU" keeps getting the blame is what is funny - it isn't the EU dictating to Italy to impound vials or Ireland to say "careful now" on national TV or Belgium to say "we're continuing with our vaccination programme".
No one is saying that it is. No one.
The EU did start the row with AZ through UvdL's idiocy and inability to read a contract. They completely screwed up the commissioning process. The EMA took longer than they should have to approve AZ and certainly added to the "second best" vibe that had already started with their uncertainty about its suitability for older age groups.
But no one is pretending that the current decisions of Germany, France, Italy, Spain and others are the responsibility of anyone but their respective governments. Why do you feel the need to create straw men and straw arguments? I repeat, if the EMA can bring sanity back to these countries' policies I would welcome it. But it will remain the decision of those countries what goes in their citizens arms.
David give me a break. "No one is saying that it is".
Literally everyone on here who has a stated view on this elides the EU and EU Member States. They start from UvdL and the AZN contract and end up blaming "the EU" for Belgium deciding to continue using the vaccine.
You yourself idly wondered if this episode (sovereign nations deciding on their own vaccine policy) would make "those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves".
I am wondering why, after waiting so long for the EMA to make a decision on various vaccines, the various countries that have it as their regulator decide to just ignore them.
Sovereignty?
There is another element to this. Up until Brexit, the MHRA was the de facto EU vaccine regulator and expert. Had we still been members then all the good stuff which we did (eg rolling review, etc) would likely have been utilised by "the EU" also (ie by other Member State regulatory bodies).
So there is a theory that our leaving the EU fucked them. I know people will point out the vaccine expertise of other Member States regulatory bodies but the MHRA was the acknowledged leader in the vaccine field and informed, pre-Brexit, just about all EU vaccine policy.
We offered them medicines regulatory mutual recognition, they declined. 🤷♂️
And yet to listen to the Brexiteers on here the EU/EMA are in charge and are dictating to all their stupidity. Which is true - except that it ISN'T. Member states are free to do as they see fit, which is why we have the contrasting polar opposites of Belgium jabbing away and Italy arresting the vaccine for witchcraft.
Have we reached the stage yet where Brexiteer ultras are arguing that the EU should be MORE centralised and integrated?
Does all this straw man nonsense make those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves? Apologies if I have missed it but I have not seen anyone on here say that this is all the fault of the EMA or that it should be. But carry on, I know its a bit embarrassing right now.
You wilfully miss the point. The EMA provides advice to the member states national health agencies who then make the national decision. There is no big bad EU dictating to members to stop using the Oxford jag - members are free to make their own decisions as they are.
That "the EU" keeps getting the blame is what is funny - it isn't the EU dictating to Italy to impound vials or Ireland to say "careful now" on national TV or Belgium to say "we're continuing with our vaccination programme".
As I understand it the mood music out of Europe (especially France) is that these decisions are designed to improve take-up by demonstrating safety is being taken seriously. Whether they are the correct decisions is open to question of course and we have to see whether matters are adversely impacted when they resume with AZ. I think, based on the ractions of the French and Italian regulators who appear to have been blindsided, that if the EMA holds the line (and no reason why they wouldn't) then AZ could restart as early as today.
I am about 95% sure that is not true either. Far more men suffer violence than women. Of course far, far more of the perpetrators of violence are men but that is a different statement.
I am about 95% sure that is not true either. Far more men suffer violence than women. Of course far, far more of the perpetrators of violence are men but that is a different statement.
The truth is we dont know as domestic violence is the least likely violent crime to be reported.
"Men were more likely to be victims of CSEW violent crime than women (2.1% of males compared with 1.3% of females1, Figure 9). This was true for all types of violence, with the exception of acquaintance violence which showed no significant difference and domestic violence which showed the reverse trend (0.4% of females were victims compared to 0.2% of males)."
"While the CSEW provides good estimates of most crime types, it is known that the main face-to-face survey underestimates the number of domestic violence incidents."
And yet to listen to the Brexiteers on here the EU/EMA are in charge and are dictating to all their stupidity. Which is true - except that it ISN'T. Member states are free to do as they see fit, which is why we have the contrasting polar opposites of Belgium jabbing away and Italy arresting the vaccine for witchcraft.
Have we reached the stage yet where Brexiteer ultras are arguing that the EU should be MORE centralised and integrated?
Does all this straw man nonsense make those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves? Apologies if I have missed it but I have not seen anyone on here say that this is all the fault of the EMA or that it should be. But carry on, I know its a bit embarrassing right now.
You wilfully miss the point. The EMA provides advice to the member states national health agencies who then make the national decision. There is no big bad EU dictating to members to stop using the Oxford jag - members are free to make their own decisions as they are.
That "the EU" keeps getting the blame is what is funny - it isn't the EU dictating to Italy to impound vials or Ireland to say "careful now" on national TV or Belgium to say "we're continuing with our vaccination programme".
As I understand it the mood music out of Europe (especially France) is that these decisions are designed to improve take-up by demonstrating safety is being taken seriously. Whether they are the correct decisions is open to question of course and we have to see whether matters are adversely impacted when they resume with AZ. I think, based on the ractions of the French and Italian regulators who appear to have been blindsided, that if the EMA holds the line (and no reason why they wouldn't) then AZ could restart as early as today.
From what I've read, the EMA meeting on this is today, but the decision is on Thursday. Of course, there is no way a new, detailed study has occurred since their last statement on the matter, yesterday. So I don't expect any surprises when they report.
And yet to listen to the Brexiteers on here the EU/EMA are in charge and are dictating to all their stupidity. Which is true - except that it ISN'T. Member states are free to do as they see fit, which is why we have the contrasting polar opposites of Belgium jabbing away and Italy arresting the vaccine for witchcraft.
Have we reached the stage yet where Brexiteer ultras are arguing that the EU should be MORE centralised and integrated?
Does all this straw man nonsense make those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves? Apologies if I have missed it but I have not seen anyone on here say that this is all the fault of the EMA or that it should be. But carry on, I know its a bit embarrassing right now.
You wilfully miss the point. The EMA provides advice to the member states national health agencies who then make the national decision. There is no big bad EU dictating to members to stop using the Oxford jag - members are free to make their own decisions as they are.
That "the EU" keeps getting the blame is what is funny - it isn't the EU dictating to Italy to impound vials or Ireland to say "careful now" on national TV or Belgium to say "we're continuing with our vaccination programme".
No one is saying that it is. No one.
You are literally foaming on about how we no longer have to listen to the opinions of Germany and France. When it comes to healthcare provision in a pandemic NOBODY need listen to them including neighbouring Belgium and Italy. You keep mentioning the EMA - what about it? The EMA didn't prevent us from creating the VTF, didn't prevent the Italians finding satan in glass vials, didn't prevent the Belgians scratching their heads and continuing to vaccinate.
The EU is not the Big Bad. It is not dictating to members. If Germany wants to be stupid thats up to Germany. But it isn't directing the Italians to be insane.
No you're not entirely right.
The EU haven't made this decision but they have laid the groundwork for it by like an arsonist undermining the Astrazeneca vaccine months ago - and then their obsession they encourage of "unity" and "solidarity" between members such that when Germany acts France may not be obliged technically to follow but they feel compelled to.
The EU started this months ago when they went to war with Astrazeneca in a very public and silly manner. They may not be the ones acting today but others are following in their footsteps, actions have consequences.
Hmmm, the EU demanded MORE doses in a very public and silly manner.
And yet to listen to the Brexiteers on here the EU/EMA are in charge and are dictating to all their stupidity. Which is true - except that it ISN'T. Member states are free to do as they see fit, which is why we have the contrasting polar opposites of Belgium jabbing away and Italy arresting the vaccine for witchcraft.
Have we reached the stage yet where Brexiteer ultras are arguing that the EU should be MORE centralised and integrated?
Does all this straw man nonsense make those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves? Apologies if I have missed it but I have not seen anyone on here say that this is all the fault of the EMA or that it should be. But carry on, I know its a bit embarrassing right now.
You wilfully miss the point. The EMA provides advice to the member states national health agencies who then make the national decision. There is no big bad EU dictating to members to stop using the Oxford jag - members are free to make their own decisions as they are.
That "the EU" keeps getting the blame is what is funny - it isn't the EU dictating to Italy to impound vials or Ireland to say "careful now" on national TV or Belgium to say "we're continuing with our vaccination programme".
No one is saying that it is. No one.
The EU did start the row with AZ through UvdL's idiocy and inability to read a contract. They completely screwed up the commissioning process. The EMA took longer than they should have to approve AZ and certainly added to the "second best" vibe that had already started with their uncertainty about its suitability for older age groups.
But no one is pretending that the current decisions of Germany, France, Italy, Spain and others are the responsibility of anyone but their respective governments. Why do you feel the need to create straw men and straw arguments? I repeat, if the EMA can bring sanity back to these countries' policies I would welcome it. But it will remain the decision of those countries what goes in their citizens arms.
David give me a break. "No one is saying that it is".
Literally everyone on here who has a stated view on this elides the EU and EU Member States. They start from UvdL and the AZN contract and end up blaming "the EU" for Belgium deciding to continue using the vaccine.
You yourself idly wondered if this episode (sovereign nations deciding on their own vaccine policy) would make "those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves".
I am wondering why, after waiting so long for the EMA to make a decision on various vaccines, the various countries that have it as their regulator decide to just ignore them.
Sovereignty?
There is another element to this. Up until Brexit, the MHRA was the de facto EU vaccine regulator and expert. Had we still been members then all the good stuff which we did (eg rolling review, etc) would likely have been utilised by "the EU" also (ie by other Member State regulatory bodies).
So there is a theory that our leaving the EU fucked them. I know people will point out the vaccine expertise of other Member States regulatory bodies but the MHRA was the acknowledged leader in the vaccine field and informed, pre-Brexit, just about all EU vaccine policy.
We offered them medicines regulatory mutual recognition, they declined. 🤷♂️
Yep I get that. Maybe they couldn't carve it out from the rest of the negotiations. My point was, as the ex-MHRA chief said on that key R4 interview (hell if I can find it now) - our/it leaving the EU arguably set back the EU in their vaccine effort given the MHRA's status as de facto EU-wide vaccine regulator.
I am about 95% sure that is not true either. Far more men suffer violence than women. Of course far, far more of the perpetrators of violence are men but that is a different statement.
Men are more than 3 times as likely to be attacked by a stranger than a woman is.
That was my recollection but I couldn't be bothered looking it up. I recall that just over 70% of murder victims are men too. A former DPP really should know this stuff.
And yet to listen to the Brexiteers on here the EU/EMA are in charge and are dictating to all their stupidity. Which is true - except that it ISN'T. Member states are free to do as they see fit, which is why we have the contrasting polar opposites of Belgium jabbing away and Italy arresting the vaccine for witchcraft.
Have we reached the stage yet where Brexiteer ultras are arguing that the EU should be MORE centralised and integrated?
Does all this straw man nonsense make those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves? Apologies if I have missed it but I have not seen anyone on here say that this is all the fault of the EMA or that it should be. But carry on, I know its a bit embarrassing right now.
You wilfully miss the point. The EMA provides advice to the member states national health agencies who then make the national decision. There is no big bad EU dictating to members to stop using the Oxford jag - members are free to make their own decisions as they are.
That "the EU" keeps getting the blame is what is funny - it isn't the EU dictating to Italy to impound vials or Ireland to say "careful now" on national TV or Belgium to say "we're continuing with our vaccination programme".
No one is saying that it is. No one.
The EU did start the row with AZ through UvdL's idiocy and inability to read a contract. They completely screwed up the commissioning process. The EMA took longer than they should have to approve AZ and certainly added to the "second best" vibe that had already started with their uncertainty about its suitability for older age groups.
But no one is pretending that the current decisions of Germany, France, Italy, Spain and others are the responsibility of anyone but their respective governments. Why do you feel the need to create straw men and straw arguments? I repeat, if the EMA can bring sanity back to these countries' policies I would welcome it. But it will remain the decision of those countries what goes in their citizens arms.
David give me a break. "No one is saying that it is".
Literally everyone on here who has a stated view on this elides the EU and EU Member States. They start from UvdL and the AZN contract and end up blaming "the EU" for Belgium deciding to continue using the vaccine.
You yourself idly wondered if this episode (sovereign nations deciding on their own vaccine policy) would make "those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves".
I am wondering why, after waiting so long for the EMA to make a decision on various vaccines, the various countries that have it as their regulator decide to just ignore them.
It is a crazy system, the planet does not need 200 odd national medical authorities. I wonder whats the biggest country that just relies on either the WHO or other big regulators to decide for them.
Sample of one, make of it what you will:
UAE (pop c.10m, GDP/cap c.$45k) licenced the Pfizer, AZ and Moderna vaccines on the basis of UK and US approvals, but insisted on local trials prior to appproval of Sinopharm and Sputnik vaccines.
And yet to listen to the Brexiteers on here the EU/EMA are in charge and are dictating to all their stupidity. Which is true - except that it ISN'T. Member states are free to do as they see fit, which is why we have the contrasting polar opposites of Belgium jabbing away and Italy arresting the vaccine for witchcraft.
Have we reached the stage yet where Brexiteer ultras are arguing that the EU should be MORE centralised and integrated?
Does all this straw man nonsense make those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves? Apologies if I have missed it but I have not seen anyone on here say that this is all the fault of the EMA or that it should be. But carry on, I know its a bit embarrassing right now.
You wilfully miss the point. The EMA provides advice to the member states national health agencies who then make the national decision. There is no big bad EU dictating to members to stop using the Oxford jag - members are free to make their own decisions as they are.
That "the EU" keeps getting the blame is what is funny - it isn't the EU dictating to Italy to impound vials or Ireland to say "careful now" on national TV or Belgium to say "we're continuing with our vaccination programme".
No one is saying that it is. No one.
You are literally foaming on about how we no longer have to listen to the opinions of Germany and France. When it comes to healthcare provision in a pandemic NOBODY need listen to them including neighbouring Belgium and Italy. You keep mentioning the EMA - what about it? The EMA didn't prevent us from creating the VTF, didn't prevent the Italians finding satan in glass vials, didn't prevent the Belgians scratching their heads and continuing to vaccinate.
The EU is not the Big Bad. It is not dictating to members. If Germany wants to be stupid thats up to Germany. But it isn't directing the Italians to be insane.
No you're not entirely right.
The EU haven't made this decision but they have laid the groundwork for it by like an arsonist undermining the Astrazeneca vaccine months ago - and then their obsession they encourage of "unity" and "solidarity" between members such that when Germany acts France may not be obliged technically to follow but they feel compelled to.
The EU started this months ago when they went to war with Astrazeneca in a very public and silly manner. They may not be the ones acting today but others are following in their footsteps, actions have consequences.
Hmmm, the EU demanded MORE doses in a very public and silly manner.
Yes claiming falsely that Astrazeneca were engaged in dodgy behaviour, breaking contracts, not following the rules.
You don't see how people here the EU falsely claiming that "Astrazeneca are dodgy and not following the rules" and make a connection from that to thinking they're unsafe?
And yet to listen to the Brexiteers on here the EU/EMA are in charge and are dictating to all their stupidity. Which is true - except that it ISN'T. Member states are free to do as they see fit, which is why we have the contrasting polar opposites of Belgium jabbing away and Italy arresting the vaccine for witchcraft.
Have we reached the stage yet where Brexiteer ultras are arguing that the EU should be MORE centralised and integrated?
Does all this straw man nonsense make those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves? Apologies if I have missed it but I have not seen anyone on here say that this is all the fault of the EMA or that it should be. But carry on, I know its a bit embarrassing right now.
You wilfully miss the point. The EMA provides advice to the member states national health agencies who then make the national decision. There is no big bad EU dictating to members to stop using the Oxford jag - members are free to make their own decisions as they are.
That "the EU" keeps getting the blame is what is funny - it isn't the EU dictating to Italy to impound vials or Ireland to say "careful now" on national TV or Belgium to say "we're continuing with our vaccination programme".
As I understand it the mood music out of Europe (especially France) is that these decisions are designed to improve take-up by demonstrating safety is being taken seriously. Whether they are the correct decisions is open to question of course and we have to see whether matters are adversely impacted when they resume with AZ. I think, based on the ractions of the French and Italian regulators who appear to have been blindsided, that if the EMA holds the line (and no reason why they wouldn't) then AZ could restart as early as today.
While that may be the argument the fact is that the opposite occurs.
Everytime a vaccine is removed from use it makes front page news, when it returns it's announced on the bottom of page 47.
And the anti-vaxxers will only use the original ban to forward their viewpoint not the later correction and reintroduction.
The EU and their member Governments are really doing themselves zero favours here.
I am about 95% sure that is not true either. Far more men suffer violence than women. Of course far, far more of the perpetrators of violence are men but that is a different statement.
I agree, but could Starmer be referring to reported figures - could that justify his statement>?
He might be referring to a subcategory like domestic violence but that's not what he said.
There are so many bloody good reasons to oppose this appalling bill today. Making others up is not entirely useful.
Aside from sticking an extra sock down the front of the UK's trousers, has any practical justification been given for the increase of nuclear warheads from 180 to 260?
Interesting the relatively high rate of antibodies among the young (esp England) - presumably from infection, not vaccination, like the older cohorts.
In part but not entirely.
Don't forget about 1/5 of all under 65 age groups have been done for having pre-existing conditions like diabetes etc - that applies to the young too.
Data collection was up to March 3rd, so I doubt many Group 6 had been done by then - and of those who had, few would have many antibodies. Section 6 of the full report shows changes over time from the start of the year - showing young rates of anti-body not changing very much, while in the older there is a clear vaccination effect, particularly in England (bigger sample size):
Aside from sticking an extra sock down the front of the UK's trousers, has any practical justification been given for the increase of nuclear warheads from 180 to 260?
Comments
Tell them we've left. The EU seem not to have accepted it. They re still trying to fuck over our vaccines like we are still in their club....
Remainers took a rather different view as demonstrated by the Guardian headline complaining that the UK would suffer more death because our government had chosen not to be a part of the European commissioning program but there we are.
I very much regret the way that Europe has behaved in respect of the vaccines, Brexit and NI. Even as a leaver I genuinely expected better. But I am very glad that we are no longer so concerned what Germany and France think, let alone the Commission. I am glad we left. I see opportunities in this mess to bring the UK together again but the cost in unnecessary deaths is more than I would have liked to pay. I genuinely hope that the EMA can persuade Member States to behave rationally today.
On the other hand, if there is a significant fall in SNP support, it gives Boris an easier time refusing it.
For understandable reasons, the SNP has doubled down on Indy. This is good - it clarifies the matter. Anyone who actually doesn't really want Indyref 2 but was thinking of voting SNP because they like Nicola or think their local SNP candidate is great (no sniggering at the back), will need to vote elsewhere or stay at home - as Nicola has been advising on telly for months.
Marquee Mark right at the very centre, too.
A change in title may persuade some to shift focus, either to Greens or to the unionist parties.
It might work. Changing the name of Labour to 'Labour and Tories are Scum' might work too, but I am doubtful.
"Ah, just don't allow them to work / claim benefits" I hear as a reply. Yes, thats call an illegal immigrant. The type that really wind gammoneers up the most. Your solution is to have an open door to undocumented illegals. Bravo.
Cowardice: Try Kipling's 'A Dead Statesman".
Its like an arsonist starting a fire, then the fire spreads and becomes a wild out of control bushfire endangering lives, homes and businesses. The arsonist might want to stand back and say "I didn't mean to start a bushfire" but it is the consequence of them lighting the fire in the first place.
We don't control migration at the border, we never have done. Tourists are allowed to come into the country without a work visa.
WE HAD TO LEAVE THE EU TO GET A VACCINE. Developed whilst in the transition period using EU laws and explicitly wouldn't have been delayed/blocked by EU membership according to the regulator who personally signed it off. Have we still had enough of experts?
EU DICTATES TO STOP USING JAG TO KILL PEOPLE TO SPIKE UK. Despite national health agencies having the absolute say in what happens in their own state as we did and Belgium / Sweden etc are openly doing.
I get it. We don't like being dictated to by unelected political appointees we can't get rid of like
Carrie SymondsDominic CummingsUrsula Von der Leyen. So we have to maintain the narrative of the Big Bad EU even if only to distract from our own cataclysmic fuck ups.The irony of a country which voted to and now has just left the EU saying that it is unable to free itself from the EU is priceless.
In any case the decision on any meaningful indyref2 will remain with Westminster regardless
It's like the other day, when someone was blaming von der Leyen for EU countries giving less than the UK in overseas aid. Despite the facts that
- it's not in her power
- when the UK was an actual EU country it was giving 0.7% and now it's left it wants to drop it to 0.5%
Logical thinking flies out the window as soon as Europe is mentioned. It's a bit like the US Republicans who are reflexively against anything if they think the "Liberals" are in favour of it.
What is politically fascinating is that the island of Ireland presents an immovable object/irresistible force problem and has done from day 1 of Brexit and all parties are still dancing around it. No side dares admit there is no solution within current configurations.
Your central argument - a Big Bad EU dictating to member states - is literally not what is happening in front of your own eyes. You are a smart gentleman yet you are writing such baseless guff. Why?
Interesting the relatively high rate of antibodies among the young (esp England) - presumably from infection, not vaccination, like the older cohorts.
While I'm personally keen to explore the potential for a better passenger officer which bus reform offers - in particular linked fares between bus and other modes - South Manchester is actually one of the few areas of the country where there isn't a particular monopoly. There are a whole bundle of different operators competing on the most profitable routes (such as the Oxford Road/Wilmslow Road corridor). This has actually driven down fares, and is one of the few examples of bus deregulation working to the benefit of its consumers. Regular bus passengers in South Manchester are pretty well served.
What it doesn't do is provide an attractive offer to those who aren't its consumers - the occasional travellers, those making journeys not on the established corridors, etc. Bus reform offers an opportunity to improve the offer to that market, which currently feels it has no option but to drive.
Its almost as if a cabinet who didn't know the importance of Dover - Calais didn't have a clue what "third party status" meant aside from its purpose as a political slogan.
The EU did start the row with AZ through UvdL's idiocy and inability to read a contract. They completely screwed up the commissioning process. The EMA took longer than they should have to approve AZ and certainly added to the "second best" vibe that had already started with their uncertainty about its suitability for older age groups.
But no one is pretending that the current decisions of Germany, France, Italy, Spain and others are the responsibility of anyone but their respective governments. Why do you feel the need to create straw men and straw arguments? I repeat, if the EMA can bring sanity back to these countries' policies I would welcome it. But it will remain the decision of those countries what goes in their citizens arms.
Its almost as if you don't speak for the Prime Minister.
Just because its not in her power is not relevant. She is happy to promote and talk about #TeamEurope when it suits her interests, she could be pushing for #TeamEurope working to #standtogether to meet the 0.7% level if she was bothered by it. But she's not.
https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1276864498335350785
https://twitter.com/sundersays/status/1371759329481752582?s=20
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1369925156383117312?s=20
However regardless the decision remains with Westminster.
Literally everyone on here who has a stated view on this elides the EU and EU Member States. They start from UvdL and the AZN contract and end up blaming "the EU" for Belgium deciding to continue using the vaccine.
You yourself idly wondered if this episode (sovereign nations deciding on their own vaccine policy) would make "those foolish enough to oppose us leaving the EU feel a bit better about themselves".
We also need a mutual SPS equivalence arrangement with the EU.
Then, lots of these problems will go away.
The EU is not the Big Bad. It is not dictating to members. If Germany wants to be stupid thats up to Germany. But it isn't directing the Italians to be insane.
Don't forget about 1/5 of all under 65 age groups have been done for having pre-existing conditions like diabetes etc - that applies to the young too.
“Over 50%” is weird. And who is saying that it is a “rare occurrence”?
https://twitter.com/keir_starmer/status/1371732944394539010?s=21
The EU haven't made this decision but they have laid the groundwork for it by like an arsonist undermining the Astrazeneca vaccine months ago - and then their obsession they encourage of "unity" and "solidarity" between members such that when Germany acts France may not be obliged technically to follow but they feel compelled to.
The EU started this months ago when they went to war with Astrazeneca in a very public and silly manner. They may not be the ones acting today but others are following in their footsteps, actions have consequences.
52%
But that was before the AstraZeneca fears spread more widely.
On Monday, Iacopo Benini, a 32-year-old professor, had his AstraZeneca vaccination appointment canceled 20 minutes before he arrived for his shot in Milan. “Who is going to accept getting AstraZeneca now?” he said.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/15/world/europe/astra-zeneca-vaccine-europe.html
There is another element to this. Up until Brexit, the MHRA was the de facto EU vaccine regulator and expert. Had we still been members then all the good stuff which we did (eg rolling review, etc) would likely have been utilised by "the EU" also (ie by other Member State regulatory bodies).
So there is a theory that our leaving the EU fucked them. I know people will point out the vaccine expertise of other Member States regulatory bodies but the MHRA was the acknowledged leader in the vaccine field and informed, pre-Brexit, just about all EU vaccine policy.
Is it 53% or 80%? Consequences and policy challenges for each. Sorry but this seems to be another SKS bottle job. If it's 80% then go all guns blazing. If it's 53% then you need to come up with a policy solution that incorporates the inevitable #menarevictimstoo charges.
Crimes against women are terrible, but why lie?
Men are more than 3 times as likely to be attacked by a stranger than a woman is.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/articles/thenatureofviolentcrimeinenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2017
"Men were more likely to be victims of CSEW violent crime than women (2.1% of males compared with 1.3% of females1, Figure 9). This was true for all types of violence, with the exception of acquaintance violence which showed no significant difference and domestic violence which showed the reverse trend (0.4% of females were victims compared to 0.2% of males)."
"While the CSEW provides good estimates of most crime types, it is known that the main face-to-face survey underestimates the number of domestic violence incidents."
I wonder what stats Starmer is using.
UAE (pop c.10m, GDP/cap c.$45k) licenced the Pfizer, AZ and Moderna vaccines on the basis of UK and US approvals, but insisted on local trials prior to appproval of Sinopharm and Sputnik vaccines.
You don't see how people here the EU falsely claiming that "Astrazeneca are dodgy and not following the rules" and make a connection from that to thinking they're unsafe?
Everytime a vaccine is removed from use it makes front page news, when it returns it's announced on the bottom of page 47.
And the anti-vaxxers will only use the original ban to forward their viewpoint not the later correction and reintroduction.
The EU and their member Governments are really doing themselves zero favours here.
There are so many bloody good reasons to oppose this appalling bill today. Making others up is not entirely useful.
https://twitter.com/jon_bartley/status/1371729923568762881?s=20
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveyantibodydatafortheuk/16march2021
Neat animation.
https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1371738501989941249