One Woman’s Perspective – politicalbetting.com

Just an excellent piece. Hard to disagree with any of it.

https://twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/1371093789402599430

I am really hoping this is another bad wicket. So many mis-hits from England. Its really kept the score down.

CarlottaVance said:

Back to whiney Dave:

https://twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/1371042507153346561?s=20
https://twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/1371043596057608194?s=20

Didn't play fair my arse. But I suspect this is a view widely held in the EU, despite having no basis in reality.

I admire the slightly subversive mention of Erin Pizzey . Lived in Chiswick for a few years.

Leon said:

This would be the greatest plot-twist in the history of politics


https://twitter.com/politicsforali/status/1370842965329985545?s=21

Members of the royal family (active or not) in charge in Washington?

DavidL said:

CarlottaVance said:

Back to whiney Dave:

https://twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/1371042507153346561?s=20
https://twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/1371043596057608194?s=20

Why? He's so stupid its a waste of pixels.

You might think that - I might think that - but it's clear he represents views held by some in the Commission and the European Parliament. Which he frequently quotes.

Leon said:

This would be the greatest plot-twist in the history of politics


https://twitter.com/politicsforali/status/1370842965329985545?s=21

I'd expect the Titles of Nobility Amendment to be ratified if she thought about running.

DavidL said:

For me, the key is respect. Young men must to taught to respect women and women must be taught to respect themselves. Women with self respect don't tolerate abuse or disrespect. They know that they are entitled to better. Those lacking that self respect become victims.

But men who respect women can also help to build that self respect. And they do. It's a virtuous circle that needs to be encouraged.

Sending nude pictures to each other seems to be the fashion these days amongst the youth with the inevitable results when relationships go sour.

rottenborough said:

Leon said:

This would be the greatest plot-twist in the history of politics


https://twitter.com/politicsforali/status/1370842965329985545?s=21

Genuine LOL. Harry goes from an aimless life of being 'the Spare' to an aimless life of being 'the First Dude'?

If this woman had an iota of political skill would they really be where they are right now?

Leon said:

I will set aside a month next year to read this piece.

Why, thank you for proving my point, and so early on in the comments!

I shall now start writing my next piece so that I can take up another month of your valuable time.

RobD said:

CarlottaVance said:

Back to whiney Dave:

https://twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/1371042507153346561?s=20
https://twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/1371043596057608194?s=20

Didn't play fair my arse. But I suspect this is a view widely held in the EU, despite having no basis in reality.

Not so much the EU bringing a knife to a gunfight as them packing a pastrami sub....

And so much grief was offered up by so many in mourning our departure from this clown troupe, 2016-2021......

RE: vaccines. You know what's even more stupid about all these AZ suspensions. That EVEN if, after detailed analysis, it was concluded that there was a small potential risk/causal link between the vaccine and blood clots then the likely outcome would be that the programme would be restarted... with an additional potential side effect added of possibility of blood clots! It is extremely unlikely (somebody more knowledgeable correct me if i'm wrong) that the outcome would be the banning of the vaccine. Because the rewards would clearly be assessed as outweighing the risks. There are other medical products that list blood clots as theoretical possible side effects in a minute number of cases (somebody suggested the morning after pill?).

It just doing the anti-vaxxers work and undermining confidence piece by piece (which is the REAL danger to comprehensive vaccine rollout). So stupid and sad. The irony is that AZ is using a proven technology. The real experiment going on is Pfizer/Moderna.

Some Murray Walker gems:

https://twitter.com/OnDisasters/status/1371117739474100226?s=20

rottenborough said:

Leon said:

This would be the greatest plot-twist in the history of politics


https://twitter.com/politicsforali/status/1370842965329985545?s=21

Genuine LOL. Harry goes from an aimless life of being 'the Spare' to an aimless life of being 'the First Dude'?

Apparently, she's going to run on a promise to change Article 2 to allow non Natural Born Americans to become President.

Ugh, this is why I could never be a Labour voter.

https://twitter.com/GroomB/status/1370837652086394882

TheScreamingEagles said:

Leon said:

This would be the greatest plot-twist in the history of politics


https://twitter.com/politicsforali/status/1370842965329985545?s=21

I'd expect the Titles of Nobility Amendment to be ratified if she thought about running.

It requires ratification by another 26 States, so I don't think that's very likely.

Thought-provoking piece.

CarlottaVance said:

Back to whiney Dave:

twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/1371042507153346561?s=20
twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/1371043596057608194?s=20

Comical Ali has called, he says even he thinks his attempted spin might be other egging it...

https://twitter.com/MayorofLondon/status/1371119517645078529?s=20

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

This would be the greatest plot-twist in the history of politics


https://twitter.com/politicsforali/status/1370842965329985545?s=21

Regular bookmakers will be too chicken to take bets on Meghan. But fellow PBers, as a public service I will generously offer odds of 5,000-1 on her becoming President of the United States in 2024.

I'll take a tenner at that please.

Or is it a 31p stake limit deal.

Pulpstar said:

DavidL said:

For me, the key is respect. Young men must to taught to respect women and women must be taught to respect themselves. Women with self respect don't tolerate abuse or disrespect. They know that they are entitled to better. Those lacking that self respect become victims.

But men who respect women can also help to build that self respect. And they do. It's a virtuous circle that needs to be encouraged.

Sending nude pictures to each other seems to be the fashion these days amongst the youth with the inevitable results when relationships go sour.

I don't understand it.

In some respects modern teenage behaviour is worse, not better, than when I was that age.

Truly excellent post by Cyclefree, and one that PBers - especially those of us in the Y-chromosome contingent - should re-read and REALLY take to heart.

Sorry the thred's been somewhat hijacked by the Megahan nonsense but well that's life I guess.

On THAT, my own view is that the Duchess of Sussex would be a BETTER bet for the White House that say, Baby Don or anyone else named Trump(sky).

Cyclefree said:

Leon said:

I will set aside a month next year to read this piece.

Why, thank you for proving my point, and so early on in the comments!

I shall now start writing my next piece so that I can take up another month of your valuable time.

Don’t be so touchy. I really enjoy your comments below the line. You are admirably honest, articulate, and persuasive.

However there is a justifiable criticism of your thread headers: they are too long. A huge wodge of text. It’s visually off-putting and I am pretty sure a good editor would and could shorten this one by 50% or more, while still getting over your worthy points - thus making it more likely people will read it: which is what you want.

Always remember the wise words of Blaise Pascal - ‘I am sorry this letter is so long, I did not have enough time to make it shorter’

rcs1000 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

rcs1000 said:

Leon said:

This would be the greatest plot-twist in the history of politics


https://twitter.com/politicsforali/status/1370842965329985545?s=21

Regular bookmakers will be too chicken to take bets on Meghan. But fellow PBers, as a public service I will generously offer odds of 5,000-1 on her becoming President of the United States in 2024.

Shadsy is offering 100/1

https://sports.ladbrokes.com/event/politics/international/us-elections/2024-us-presidential-election/229683570/all-markets

He's more generous than me. Read the terms of my offer closely.

Ah I thought that was Betfair style writing and you meant 2024 election.

No tenner if that's what you mean.

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/MayorofLondon/status/1371119517645078529?s=20

What an opportunistic shit.

It wasn’t all that long ago that he was a COVID zealot.

CarlottaVance said:

Some Murray Walker gems:

https://twitter.com/OnDisasters/status/1371117739474100226?s=20

The last of a generation of vintage commentators who defined television sport for me in my younger years.

Murray Walker can proudly take his place in the commentating pantheon alongside David Coleman, Peter O'Sullivan, Peter Alliss, Harry Carpenter and Reg Gutteridge among others. All those who made 60s and 70s television sport so memorable.

MaxPB said:

Interesting article, a bit wordy but lots of good points raised.

I think respect for women taught from a young age is key to all of this, my parents played a big role in this for my, my older sister as well. I think Asian men have a lot to learn and thankfully in my generation for Indians it's a lot better than my parent's generation where wife beating was commonplace, honour killings a fact of life in India and forced marriage tolerated. I think Indians in the UK have come a long way and I think the other British Asians could learn a lot from us because if one were to look into the detail of crimes against women Asians will be massively overrepresented and this is all because of a culture that values boys more than girls.

A friend of my dad’s spent years travelling round Asia selling stuff (probably weapons, we don’t know for sure). Anyway, he used to take his wife on many trips.

She told me that everywhere they went was fine and she’d go off exploring places on her own whilst her husband was doing business etc. With one exception. India. She said that when she left the hotel on her own she found she had a group of men following her. She managed to double back to the hotel, but it properly shook her up. Maybe she was unlucky but it fits with other stories that get reported in the media.

MattW said:

rcs1000 said:

rottenborough said:

Leon said:

This would be the greatest plot-twist in the history of politics


https://twitter.com/politicsforali/status/1370842965329985545?s=21

Genuine LOL. Harry goes from an aimless life of being 'the Spare' to an aimless life of being 'the First Dude'?

Apparently, she's going to run on a promise to change Article 2 to allow non Natural Born Americans to become President.

That sounds chicken and egg.

Have any members of the UK nobility ever been President before?

George Washington and the George Bushes were both related to the royals - Washington was descended from I think a daughter of Edward I, while Bush Sr was the queen’s eleventh cousin.

India off to the perfect start.

stodge said:

CarlottaVance said:

Some Murray Walker gems:

https://twitter.com/OnDisasters/status/1371117739474100226?s=20

The last of a generation of vintage commentators who defined television sport for me in my younger years.

Murray Walker can proudly take his place in the commentating pantheon alongside David Coleman, Peter O'Sullivan, Peter Alliss, Harry Carpenter and Reg Gutteridge among others. All those who made 60s and 70s television sport so memorable.

A little later, but Sid Waddell deserves adding to that list.

Thank you to Cyclefree for another terrific article. Out of the many questions I have may I pick just one very simple one.

Cyclefree, along with everyone else says that something must be done and I agree. Who could not?

In a sense the best way of knowing what should be done, as well as making a provisional finding as to whether it can be done, is to ask: Which country/community/culture at this moment has broadly got it right? Where do go to find the sort of male/female relationships and attitudes that we would like to see here?

If there is an agreed answer we could learn from it. If there isn't then parts, maybe most, of the problem would need to be filed under 'Intractable issues caused by human nature which may not have feasible solutions.'

NB The chances that something like this can be solved by the creation of new crimes feels like fanciful wishful thinking.

Speaking of women of courage . . . from behind the paywall . . .

NYT - Jaime Herrera Beutler Is Undaunted
After seeing her eldest child through a medical nightmare, the six-term Republican from Washington was not intimidated by the idea of breaking with her party to support Donald J. Trump’s impeachment.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/12/us/politics/jaime-herrera-beutler.html?action=click&algo=identity&block=more_in_recirc&fellback=false&imp_id=73401395&impression_id=9fc8b151-8442-11eb-b00d-3babba05bd83&index=1&pgtype=Article&region=footer&req_id=609640017&surface=more-in-politics&variant=0_identity

This is a very interesting profile piece, focusing on JHB's combined struggles as the mother of a special-needs child AND as a Christian conservative in the Age of Trumpsky.

"Ms. Herrera Beutler, who was elected to her sixth term in November, was unbothered by the criticism, and more willing than most in her party to publicly single out its origins.

She said she did not mind the judgment of “fringe-y people” whose whole political identity was tied to Mr. Trump, because “I’ve never been in that camp, and I’m not going to win them back,” she said. “I’m not exactly courting the white supremacy vote.”

Personal note:yours truly was one of those, on the Democratic side, who worked to defeat JHB's re-election to Congress in 2018 and 2020. Frankly was NOT all that surprised when she voted to impeach Trumpsky after his attempted Putsch.

Though I disagree with (at least) 80% of her politics, I salute Jaime Herrera Beutler as a true profile in courage. She makes me proud to be an American, and a Washingtonian.

ydoethur said:

MattW said:

rcs1000 said:

rottenborough said:

Leon said:

This would be the greatest plot-twist in the history of politics


https://twitter.com/politicsforali/status/1370842965329985545?s=21

Genuine LOL. Harry goes from an aimless life of being 'the Spare' to an aimless life of being 'the First Dude'?

Apparently, she's going to run on a promise to change Article 2 to allow non Natural Born Americans to become President.

That sounds chicken and egg.

Have any members of the UK nobility ever been President before?

George Washington and the George Bushes were both related to the royals - Washington was descended from I think a daughter of Edward I, while Bush Sr was the queen’s eleventh cousin.

Ooo they’re on the peerage. I’ll have a look later to see if I’m related to them:

https://www.thepeerage.com/p32217.htm

tlg86 said:

MaxPB said:

Interesting article, a bit wordy but lots of good points raised.

I think respect for women taught from a young age is key to all of this, my parents played a big role in this for my, my older sister as well. I think Asian men have a lot to learn and thankfully in my generation for Indians it's a lot better than my parent's generation where wife beating was commonplace, honour killings a fact of life in India and forced marriage tolerated. I think Indians in the UK have come a long way and I think the other British Asians could learn a lot from us because if one were to look into the detail of crimes against women Asians will be massively overrepresented and this is all because of a culture that values boys more than girls.

A friend of my dad’s spent years travelling round Asia selling stuff (probably weapons, we don’t know for sure). Anyway, he used to take his wife on many trips.

She told me that everywhere they went was fine and she’d go off exploring places on her own whilst her husband was doing business etc. With one exception. India. She said that when she left the hotel on her own she found she had a group of men following her. She managed to double back to the hotel, but it properly shook her up. Maybe she was unlucky but it fits with other stories that get reported in the media.

I once took a young, pretty, blonde, blue eyed girlfriend to the Red Fort in Delhi. Without exaggeration, she came close to causing a riot. It started with young men wanting to be photographed next to her. Then women as well. Then large groups. Then the Indian people started jostling and shouting at each other as to who could get closest - fighting was imminent - finally the police intervened, forcefully - batons raised - and escorted us outside and to safety.

Quite scary.

It’s not just India tho. Woe betide the young blonde western woman in, say, Cairo

TheScreamingEagles said:

Ugh, this is why I could never be a Labour voter.

https://twitter.com/GroomB/status/1370837652086394882

I don't suppose Roy Jenkins was a regular at Filey either but that didn't stop him being a great labour Home Secretary.

The leader Butlins folk would enjoy the company of is a fellow called Boris Johnson. I can't think of a Labour leader who would be comfortable in the knobbly knees comp etc. Nor another Tory one.

IshmaelZ said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Truly excellent post by Cyclefree, and one that PBers - especially those of us in the Y-chromosome contingent - should re-read and REALLY take to heart.

Sorry the thred's been somewhat hijacked by the Megahan nonsense but well that's life I guess.

On THAT, my own view is that the Duchess of Sussex would be a BETTER bet for the White House that say, Baby Don or anyone else named Trump(sky).

Really?

This is all irrelevant to me, and I hope to the vast majority of PBers, as neither a perpetrator, enabler nor condoner of any of this stuff. But, oh look, a visible-a-mile-off little booby trap has been cunningly incorporated into the piece to stop me saying that: "there is something narcissistic (grotesque even) about the rush by some men to focus on how they are not to blame, should not be victimised and should not have their freedoms curbed." I am not rushing to focus on anything, I don't claim to be victimised or to have had my freedoms curbed, I have yet to say anything at all on the subject and I am saying this now merely to rebut the insinuation to the contrary in the piece. We are not all guilty.

Do you mean we men are (mostly) not all guilty ALL of the time? Or that most of us are not guilty MOST of the time?

The latter I would agree with, the former not.

Why? Because I believe sexism is similar to racism, in that it is something DEEPLY ingrained and thus is in the warp and woof of nearly every human being, in some form or fashion.

IshmaelZ said:

SeaShantyIrish2 said:

Truly excellent post by Cyclefree, and one that PBers - especially those of us in the Y-chromosome contingent - should re-read and REALLY take to heart.

Sorry the thred's been somewhat hijacked by the Megahan nonsense but well that's life I guess.

On THAT, my own view is that the Duchess of Sussex would be a BETTER bet for the White House that say, Baby Don or anyone else named Trump(sky).

Really?

This is all irrelevant to me, and I hope to the vast majority of PBers, as neither a perpetrator, enabler nor condoner of any of this stuff. But, oh look, a visible-a-mile-off little booby trap has been cunningly incorporated into the piece to stop me saying that: "there is something narcissistic (grotesque even) about the rush by some men to focus on how they are not to blame, should not be victimised and should not have their freedoms curbed." I am not rushing to focus on anything, I don't claim to be victimised or to have had my freedoms curbed, I have yet to say anything at all on the subject and I am saying this now merely to rebut the insinuation to the contrary in the piece. We are not all guilty.

Oh dear. You will be accused of "whining".

Having spent a lifetime being never a perpetrator, enabler nor condoner of any of this stuff, I have huge sympathy for women who suffer the horrors meted out by that smallish percentage of twattish blokes who think they can use their physical form or belief in some inherent male advantage of "the system". But marking all our cards gets women nowhere, other than embedding the victimhood. Recruits us, don't paint us as all part of the problem.

ydoethur said:

tlg86 said:

ydoethur said:

MattW said:

rcs1000 said:

rottenborough said:

Leon said:

This would be the greatest plot-twist in the history of politics


https://twitter.com/politicsforali/status/1370842965329985545?s=21

Genuine LOL. Harry goes from an aimless life of being 'the Spare' to an aimless life of being 'the First Dude'?

Apparently, she's going to run on a promise to change Article 2 to allow non Natural Born Americans to become President.

That sounds chicken and egg.

Have any members of the UK nobility ever been President before?

George Washington and the George Bushes were both related to the royals - Washington was descended from I think a daughter of Edward I, while Bush Sr was the queen’s eleventh cousin.

Ooo they’re on the peerage. I’ll have a look later to see if I’m related to them:

https://www.thepeerage.com/p32217.htm

I’m not surprised to find the Bushes listed in Burke’s.

Like the late Ann Richards memorably said, “Poor George [Bush], he can't help it. He was born with a silver foot in his mouth.”

stodge said:

Afternoon all

Thank you for the thread, @Cyclefree and in many ways a deeply thought provoking and uncomfortable piece.

I don't have any answers.

Sexualisation is part of human nature - the primal urge to copulate and reproduce. Pornography has existed for thousands of years - for all our claims of human evolution and maturity and civilisation, I suspect we've not come as far as we think.

I don't have any answers.

EVERY murder is a terrible tragedy for those closest to the victim which, as @Cyclefree correctly opines, all too often includes the perpetrator. However, it's those killings which appear so incredibly random, so incredibly motiveless that bring out the sharpest emotional response. To think a life can be snuffed out in such an abominable way, to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I don't have any answers.

You won't have answers so long as you can rest your case with 'Sexualisation is part of human nature". When John Stuart Mill wrote 'What is normal seems natural", he was speaking of the subjection of women, and he hoped that because it was normal (i.e. normally found), it might not be attributed to what you call "human nature".

dixiedean said:

tlg86 said:

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/MayorofLondon/status/1371119517645078529?s=20

What an opportunistic shit.

It wasn’t all that long ago that he was a COVID zealot.

And now the Home Secretary has followed suit.
Cue "firm leadership."

Err, no. You can always count on politicians to throw the police under a bus.

FrancisUrquhart said:

That really sums up Khan....do nothing, hides from tough decisions, but goes full PR when opportunity e.g. Trump.

You could say that about a lot of politicians i suppose, but he has a long record of being a achieve nothing politician.

You could say that about his two immediate predecessors as Mayor of London in all honesty.

The post is an overpaid sinecure without a smidgen of actual responsibility and authority - a bit like being First Minister of Scotland or Leader of Surrey County Council I suppose.

alednam said:

tlg86 said:

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/MayorofLondon/status/1371119517645078529?s=20

What an opportunistic shit.

It wasn’t all that long ago that he was a COVID zealot.

Sadiq Khan doesn't deserve your abuse. At the time when Khan struck you as a COVID zealot, it wasn't yet known that, as Patrick Vallance said, "There is so far no evidence that mass gatherings lead to a rise in COVID-19 cases. ... following recent mass gatherings ... during protests." And what Vallance said (reiterated by Chris Whitty) cohered with there being no spike in infections in New York City following demonstrations there.
If Khan doesn't understand why the application to hold a vigil wasn't treated on its merits, I'm with him. You perhaps wouldn't want to treat it on its merits -- especially if that enables you to derogate him.

Hang on, I supported the BLM demonstrations on the basis that they’d provide good evidence on transmission outside. Sadly, the morons making the decisions ignored the evidence and banned the right demonstrate.

All that needed to happen this week was for politicians to say “you know what, we got it wrong”, refunded those fines and allowed people demonstrate all they liked. But no, they don’t want to be seen to be soft on COVID, so far easier to blame the nasty police.

RobD said:

dixiedean said:

tlg86 said:

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/MayorofLondon/status/1371119517645078529?s=20

What an opportunistic shit.

It wasn’t all that long ago that he was a COVID zealot.

And now the Home Secretary has followed suit.
Cue "firm leadership."

What was her latest statement? I only see the tweet from last night.

She's ordered the same investigation. Presumably equally dissatisfied with answers thus far.

Worth sharing this tweet. Seems pulmonary events in the UK have been slightly more common in Pfizer-vaccinated people but there's really no difference and about what you would expect in the general population. https://twitter.com/Martin_Moder/status/1371033872046166025?s=19

Leon said:

alednam said:

tlg86 said:

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/MayorofLondon/status/1371119517645078529?s=20

What an opportunistic shit.

It wasn’t all that long ago that he was a COVID zealot.

Sadiq Khan doesn't deserve your abuse. At the time when Khan struck you as a COVID zealot, it wasn't yet known that, as Patrick Vallance said, "There is so far no evidence that mass gatherings lead to a rise in COVID-19 cases. ... following recent mass gatherings ... during protests." And what Vallance said (reiterated by Chris Whitty) cohered with there being no spike in infections in New York City following demonstrations there.
If Khan doesn't understand why the application to hold a vigil wasn't treated on its merits, I'm with him. You perhaps wouldn't want to treat it on its merits -- especially if that enables you to derogate him.

I’m old enough to remember when Khan was encouraging all of us to use the Tube during early Covid, because it was so ‘safe’

What were you called then? I forget.

tlg86 said:

dixiedean said:

tlg86 said:

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/MayorofLondon/status/1371119517645078529?s=20

What an opportunistic shit.

It wasn’t all that long ago that he was a COVID zealot.

And now the Home Secretary has followed suit.
Cue "firm leadership."

Err, no. You can always count on politicians to throw the police under a bus.

It wasn't that long ago that a member of the police attempted to "fit up" a cabinet minister.

India absolutely smashing this.

Philip_Thompson said:

Why should law abiding women change their behaviour? All law abiding people have no choice but to change their behaviour when law breaking people are not taken off the streets for serious lengths of time even when evidence has been gathered, they've been arrested, caught, prosecuted and sentenced.

I'm pretty sure most people will know of and avoid rough pubs, certain areas of town, and circumstances like late night travel on public transport; or if they don't avoid them they are on their guard. It's completely normal for example to be aware of kicking-out time.

It shouldn't be a men versus women debate, the vast majority of people share the same concerns and want safer streets.

Philip_Thompson said:

Excellent article Cyclefree.

A primary target needs to be criminal justice reform, which means serious jailtime for breaking the law.

I am limited in my ability to relate to the way women are subjected to harrasment, but mentioned on the previous thread that I have been repeatedly a victim of violent crimes. Despite on two occasions the perpetuator getting arrested red handed, on one occasion they only got a six month jail sentence, on the other a suspended sentence. The prosecution, conviction and sentencing rates of sexual offenders are no better.

Why should law abiding women change their behaviour? All law abiding people have no choice but to change their behaviour when law breaking people are not taken off the streets for serious lengths of time even when evidence has been gathered, they've been arrested, caught, prosecuted and sentenced.

The real problem with the criminal justice system right now is not the length of sentences, but that trial dates being set now are for 2023. That's right, if you committed a crime in 2019, were arrested in 2020, and charges were brought now, then you could look forward to your day in court in two and a half years time.

When there is a close to five year gap between offences being committed and trial dates, the chance of conviction is meaningfully diminished.

And criminals concentrate far more on the chance of going to prison, than whether it's a nine or an eleven year sentence.