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A Suggestion on Political Reform – politicalbetting.com

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  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,924

    In a way the self driving cars are solving the wrong problem. They are solving for a situation where roads contain large numbers of vehicles controlled by humans and all that unpredictability that goes along with that.

    If only self driving cars were allowed on the roads (and the roads were augmented with sensors), the current technology is sufficient.
    Yes, exactly. I think we might first see a hybrid situation where autonomous driving is permitted on certain roads (such as motorways) only. Freight would be the obvious place to start.

    Building an autonomous motorway might be a better investment than HS2.

  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,795

    In a way the self driving cars are solving the wrong problem. They are solving for a situation where roads contain large numbers of vehicles controlled by humans and all that unpredictability that goes along with that.

    If only self driving cars were allowed on the roads (and the roads were augmented with sensors), the current technology is sufficient.
    Indeed. If we’d started from here, humans simply wouldn’t be allowed to drive cars, as bizarre as that sounds.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 34,295
    Article in American Spectator from about 3 weeks ago.

    "Introducing Wokeyleaks
    ‘The character trait that typically accompanies fame is extreme narcissism’"

    https://spectator.us/topic/introducing-wokeyleaks-celebrity-fame/
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,652
    edited February 2021

    I doubt China would worry about protecting a building like this.
    https://twitter.com/swindonadver/status/1357418652514017286?s=21

    That's just Nimbys flailing around by the look of it.

    Though it could probably technically be converted to flats, it does not seem outstanding and as it is 60s ish it is probably full of asbestos. A normal podium / tower office block.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    rcs1000 said:

    Oh yes, there's the ever present risk of a batch being "zero" through contamination, etc.

    But people simply get better over time. Problems occur, and then the experience is shared among all the manufacturing sites.

    My point is that some people seem to worry that production of vaccines in aggregate might dip, when the reality is that more and more plants will get brought on-line every month between now and the end of the year, and production at existing plants should continue to rise too.
    Yep, overall production volume is only going to go up on aggregate, even though there will be some inevitable snafus along the way.
  • Andy_JS said:

    England win toss and bat.

    Nice to hear Sunil Gavaskar commentating on Channel 4 because he was in the box for BBC TV when I first started watching cricket when Gooch got 333 in 1990.

    Looks a good toss to win. Hope I'm still saying that in six hours time!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,108
    The number of Americans willing to be vaccinated, from recent polls, appears to have reached two thirds, having started off not much more than half.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,108
    CNN: The House voted Thursday evening to remove Republican Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene from her committee assignments, a decisive step that comes in the wake of recently unearthed incendiary and violent past statements from the congresswoman that have triggered widespread backlash from Democrats and divided congressional Republicans.

    The vote tally was 230-199 with 11 Republican House members voting with Democrats to remove Greene from her committee assignments.
    House Democrats, who control the chamber, set up the vote after first attempting to pressure Republicans to strip the Georgia Republican of committee assignments on their own. House Republicans did not take that action, however, and House GOP leader Kevin McCarthy on Wednesday released a statement calling the push by Democrats to take away the congresswoman's committee assignments a "partisan power grab."
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,108
    Guardian: Pressure is growing on the government over its support for a new coalmine in Cumbria, as the UK prepares to host the most important UN climate summit since the Paris agreement was signed in 2015.

    Developing country experts, scientists, green campaigners and government advisers are increasingly concerned about the seeming contradiction of ministers backing the new mine – the UK’s first new deep coalmine in three decades, which will produce coking coal, mostly for export, until 2049 – while gathering support from world leaders for a fresh deal on the climate crisis.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,652
    edited February 2021
    Thank-you for the piece - very enjoyable and an interesting zinger of an article. I am mainly not convinced.

    1 - I am not sure that the experience of Police & Crime Commissioners (or historic experience in the USA) supports the election to particular cabinet positions.

    They tried to do this iirc with Labour Party Cabinet members (or shad cab) elected by members.

    2 - This is just like Citizen's Assemblies. Studying recent ones these seem to me to move the balance too far from the elected element, to the technocrats who do the briefings. The risk is moving the politics out of the assembly into the corridors, which we generally want to resist.

    3 - I think the difficulty here is that the devil actually is in the detail. Not sure how that is dealt with.

    4 - Looks like a good idea, if possible within timescales.

    5 - I think that is too rigid.

    6 is rather a reversal of history development of the franchise.

    If you have not read it, I think you may enjoy a Short Story called Franchise written by Isaac Asimov, exploring one view of "electronic democracy". Published in 1955.

    It is only a few thousand words, and there is a version in this PDF:
    http://www.brandonkendhammer.com/challenges_of_democratization/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Franchise-Asimov-1955.pdf

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,108
    A spike in US cases is feared this weekend, as Americans get together to watch their superb owl.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,652
    edited February 2021
    IanB2 said:

    A spike in US cases is feared this weekend, as Americans get together to watch their superb owl.

    Are there free tickets :blush: ?
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    edited February 2021
    MattW said:

    This strikes me as arrant nonsense.

    It is coking coal for the steel industry, and will not be "not required" if Greenies make us import it all from more polluting plants outside our control.

    We should have learnt that lesson when Ed Milliband's tax changes killed the aluminium industry.
    This type of writing (all news outlets do it, including the TV bulletins) makes me smile. “Pressure is growing”. Is it? From who? Not the public.
  • IanB2 said:

    Guardian: Pressure is growing on the government over its support for a new coalmine in Cumbria, as the UK prepares to host the most important UN climate summit since the Paris agreement was signed in 2015.

    Developing country experts, scientists, green campaigners and government advisers are increasingly concerned about the seeming contradiction of ministers backing the new mine – the UK’s first new deep coalmine in three decades, which will produce coking coal, mostly for export, until 2049 – while gathering support from world leaders for a fresh deal on the climate crisis.

    The world needs steel. Heck, don't wind turbines need steel?

    There's no contradiction between caring for the environment and producing steel.

    Coking coal is not the same thing as coal burned for electricity.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,652

    This type of writing (all news outlets do it, including the TV bulletins) makes me smile. “Pressure is growing”. Is it? From who? Not the public.
    Usually people / groups who lost a democratic process so have decided to go outside it.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,918
    Sortition. Yes please!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,108
    The Covid crisis dominates the British press this morning, with some signs of optimism coming through. “Return of sport and socialising outdoors”, says the Times, while the Mail reckons “Most Covid curbs ‘to end in May’”. In Scotland the Press & Journal reports on lower case rates: “At last there’s a ray of sunshine in Covid battle”. The Express sees optimism in the economy – “Shot in the arm for Britain plc” – and the Mirror has “Delivery of hope” about their campaign for school supplies
  • Good morning, everyone.

    Some interesting proposals, Mr. Pagan, though I suspect too radical to have much prospect of coming about.
  • Interesting article on Finance post-Brexit: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55939857
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,108
    Breaking: May elections are Go!
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,424
    IanB2 said:

    A spike in US cases is feared this weekend, as Americans get together to watch their superb owl.

    In what way is their owl better than the ones Labour were said to be giving us?
  • AnneJGP said:

    In what way is their owl better than the ones Labour were said to be giving us?
    If you're into that kind of thing, their owl is famously paid for by copious amounts of adverts instead of taxes.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    IanB2 said:

    A spike in US cases is feared this weekend, as Americans get together to watch their superb owl.

    Watch the birdie!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,108

    Maybe but we are not New Zealand
    And Tory plans were held up when they found that none of their MPs is married to anyone who owns a hotel chain.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,569
    Good morning everyone.

    Don't quite understand all the to-ing and fro-ing over hotel quarantine. Thailand's had it for months; there are even holiday packages marketed which included the quarantine period. And according to reports, it worked very well Food was OK, people were looked after.
  • King Cole, we have a dithering idiot in Number Ten.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    Good grief. The tone of the front pages. Seems a bit of a street party rush out of lockdown to me.

    What do I know? I know you can have 2 jabs and still get COVID. I’m the right side of 50 to get one, but I don’t play for Chesterfield so I haven’t seen anything yet. So I am still feeling rather vulnerable to be honest.

    When the whistle comes, and you go over the top to start walking slowly toward the enemy, I hope you don’t mind awfully if I just wait to see what happens to you?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,161

    The world needs steel. Heck, don't wind turbines need steel?

    There's no contradiction between caring for the environment and producing steel.

    Coking coal is not the same thing as coal burned for electricity.
    There are alternatives being developed to using coking coal for producing steel. "It can't be done" is an argument of the past.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottcarpenter/2020/08/31/swedish-steelmaker-uses-hydrogen-instead-of-coal-to-make-fossil-free-steel/
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    In a way the self driving cars are solving the wrong problem. They are solving for a situation where roads contain large numbers of vehicles controlled by humans and all that unpredictability that goes along with that.

    If only self driving cars were allowed on the roads (and the roads were augmented with sensors), the current technology is sufficient.
    What an interesting and diverse thread. Well done to Pagan for the header.

    Yes, the way to implement SD cars is to build a new town around them, so they have a segregated road network with no other vehicles or pedestrians. Even then, they’ll likely be the victims of sabotage (humans, don’t you just love them?) and occasionally get as confused as my wife’s Roomba does when someone leaves a phone charger cable on the floor.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,263

    In a way the self driving cars are solving the wrong problem. They are solving for a situation where roads contain large numbers of vehicles controlled by humans and all that unpredictability that goes along with that.

    If only self driving cars were allowed on the roads (and the roads were augmented with sensors), the current technology is sufficient.
    Time and again the conclusion that AI robots will come up with is that human behaviour is the problem. The simple solution to run things smoothly is obvious...
  • The UK is now the biggest destination for Australian wine exports by volume, with Brits buying up 266 million litres (29.6 million cases) in 2020.

    The most popular varieties were shiraz/syrah which accounted for 29% of UK sales last year, followed by chardonnay (25%) and cabernet sauvignon (10%).


    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-55929414
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    gealbhan said:

    Good grief. The tone of the front pages. Seems a bit of a street party rush out of lockdown to me.

    What do I know? I know you can have 2 jabs and still get COVID. I’m the right side of 50 to get one, but I don’t play for Chesterfield so I haven’t seen anything yet. So I am still feeling rather vulnerable to be honest.

    When the whistle comes, and you go over the top to start walking slowly toward the enemy, I hope you don’t mind awfully if I just wait to see what happens to you?

    A report in spain today of an OPH with 7 new cases of patients twice vaccinated. With another 6 staff asymptomatic unvaccinated. The dangers seem pretty obvious although be interesting to see more detail.
  • None of this bodes well for how they will deal with the euro economic crisis after covid.
  • Good morning everyone.

    Don't quite understand all the to-ing and fro-ing over hotel quarantine. Thailand's had it for months; there are even holiday packages marketed which included the quarantine period. And according to reports, it worked very well Food was OK, people were looked after.

    I suspect parts of government have fighting over this, with one department maybe dragging its feet.

    Of course government suffers from "not invented here" so just putting another country's scheme into implementation won't be considered.

    I also suspect that the majority of people entering from foreign countries are Brits who went abroad recently. We are in lockdown and shouldn't be travelling.

    We should be stopping people leaving the country in the first place.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    edited February 2021

    Good morning everyone.

    Don't quite understand all the to-ing and fro-ing over hotel quarantine. Thailand's had it for months; there are even holiday packages marketed which included the quarantine period. And according to reports, it worked very well Food was OK, people were looked after.

    I reckon the issue is scale, they’ve way underestimated the number of rooms required - which is in itself a measure of how many people are still travelling.

    Last year, with all the disruption, LHR still averaged 60k people per day going through.

    It would be insightful to see some stats on who is travelling and from where at the moment.

    (Australia and Emirates airline had a bit of a spat a couple of weeks back, after the Aussie government only allowed planes half full of people to certain destinations, because of quarantine capacity).
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,263
    AnneJGP said:

    In what way is their owl better than the ones Labour were said to be giving us?
    Labour promised free owls, but never specified how superb so left a get out in their promise.

    I miss Millibandism. It would have been entertaining with its Edstones and owls, but gently so compared to the last 5 years.
  • There are alternatives being developed to using coking coal for producing steel. "It can't be done" is an argument of the past.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottcarpenter/2020/08/31/swedish-steelmaker-uses-hydrogen-instead-of-coal-to-make-fossil-free-steel/
    Being developed and available today are two totally different things.

    Cleaner coke based steel is still a more environmentally friendly alternative than importing it from countries that don't give a damn about environmental standards.

    It's like choosing a hybrid over a diesel. It's still progress.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,180
    Well done @Pagan2 in producing the thread header. It is certainly thought provoking but...no.

    Government needs to be coherent. It involves choices between the things you want to do, prioritisation. It requires an overall picture and, ideally, a clear sense of mission. How would such a structure cope with the pandemic where the platforms on which the various department heads would simply need to be binned to cope with the emergency? Similarly a war or the 2008 crash?

    My critique of government would be that it is too incoherent right now, that we need to find ways of ensuring that the various arms are pulling in the same direction to achieve common goals. If you take a problem like social care it has implications for not just the care sector and the health service but pensions, taxation, benefits, etc. It cannot be dealt with piece meal if a satisfactory solution is to be found.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,651
    Can I just say that automatic hoovers are the absolute pits. As are Dysons - really poorly designed and expensive for what they are.

    Finding a decent vacuum cleaner for hard flooring which actually picks up the dirt is harder than it seems. Lots of models but in my experience they all fall apart after a bit. I've tried G-Tech: fell to bits. My Bosch is now playing silly buggers.

    Ideally I'd like a cordless one for a quick clean (I have a Henry for a proper vacuum). I am currently doing research on the topic. Any tips gratefully received.
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    felix said:

    A report in spain today of an OPH with 7 new cases of patients twice vaccinated. With another 6 staff asymptomatic unvaccinated. The dangers seem pretty obvious although be interesting to see more detail.
    It’s the OPH to watch for isn’t it as litmus test, one jabbed and two? When it got in before it ran through it, when it gets in now will it not run through it.

    All eyes on the OPHs!
  • gealbhangealbhan Posts: 2,362
    Well done to Pagan2 for debut and interesting thread 🙂.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,553
    Interesting the way Reuters have written that up. von der Leyen is mentioned twice - in passing. Talking to these diplomats, you would get the impression she was just a peripheral figure, her role limited to sending out one tweet.

    It is clear they are circling the wagons around her. Gallina is going to be the one who gets the blame. Even down to a little dig - effectively "what was she doing in the role, she only came here as an interpreter thirty years ago...."
  • Site Admins - Please note I had to enter site through the vanilla forum route as using the www.politicalbetting.com entry route has been hijacked.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,108
    Cyclefree said:

    Can I just say that automatic hoovers are the absolute pits. As are Dysons - really poorly designed and expensive for what they are.

    Finding a decent vacuum cleaner for hard flooring which actually picks up the dirt is harder than it seems. Lots of models but in my experience they all fall apart after a bit. I've tried G-Tech: fell to bits. My Bosch is now playing silly buggers.

    Ideally I'd like a cordless one for a quick clean (I have a Henry for a proper vacuum). I am currently doing research on the topic. Any tips gratefully received.

    My robot roomba does hard floors just fine
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,651
    Nice to see a new header writer and different ideas.

    But no. 6 is a complete no-no. It does not expand the franchise. It restricts it. It is fundamentally undemocratic. It is the sort of thing the Chinese would approve of. It is also unworkable.

    The vote is not something you earn. It is a fundamental right if we want our society to be free in any sense at all.


  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    What's the best and worst airport hotel PBers have stayed in?

    There was a little motel bang next door to Hell Airport that I was once stuck in for a couple of days. Nothing to do but look at an empty vending machine
  • Cyclefree said:

    Can I just say that automatic hoovers are the absolute pits. As are Dysons - really poorly designed and expensive for what they are.

    Finding a decent vacuum cleaner for hard flooring which actually picks up the dirt is harder than it seems. Lots of models but in my experience they all fall apart after a bit. I've tried G-Tech: fell to bits. My Bosch is now playing silly buggers.

    Ideally I'd like a cordless one for a quick clean (I have a Henry for a proper vacuum). I am currently doing research on the topic. Any tips gratefully received.

    Not cordless but we got a Shark a while back and it works far, far better than our old Dyson did. Not tried their cordless model but if it's any bit as good as their corded one then I would recommend it.
  • Cyclefree said:

    Can I just say that automatic hoovers are the absolute pits. As are Dysons - really poorly designed and expensive for what they are.

    Finding a decent vacuum cleaner for hard flooring which actually picks up the dirt is harder than it seems. Lots of models but in my experience they all fall apart after a bit. I've tried G-Tech: fell to bits. My Bosch is now playing silly buggers.

    Ideally I'd like a cordless one for a quick clean (I have a Henry for a proper vacuum). I am currently doing research on the topic. Any tips gratefully received.

    Not cordless but we got a Shark a while back and it works far, far better than our old Dyson did. Not tried their cordless model but if it's any bit as good as their corded one then I would recommend it.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,234
    edited February 2021
    This "postcode lottery" article is so misleading

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9224205/Coronavirus-rates-70s-jabbed-FOUR-TIMES-higher-South-East-London-Devon.html?ito=push-notification&ci=74595&si=25474331
    London, specifically South East London had the lowest over 80 jab takeup and a younger population so of course they're moving onto the next groups quicker.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,651
    IanB2 said:

    My robot roomba does hard floors just fine
    What about furniture? How does it move that or get under it or get into spaces into which it does not fit?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,553
    IanB2 said:

    A spike in US cases is feared this weekend, as Americans get together to watch their superb owl.

    Sounds like I'm missing out on one hell of a twitch...
  • MattWMattW Posts: 26,652

    Site Admins - Please note I had to enter site through the vanilla forum route as using the www.politicalbetting.com entry route has been hijacked.

    Are you sure that is not a hangover from the previous hack a couple of months ago?

    Mine persisted in my cache until flushed.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,553
    Charles said:

    There was a little motel bang next door to Hell Airport that I was once stuck in for a couple of days. Nothing to do but look at an empty vending machine
    Was the room heating set really, really hot in there?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,161

    Being developed and available today are two totally different things.

    Cleaner coke based steel is still a more environmentally friendly alternative than importing it from countries that don't give a damn about environmental standards.

    It's like choosing a hybrid over a diesel. It's still progress.
    It's about taking action now so that it is available at scale in 10 years, rather than still being developed in 2049.

    Time is of the essence.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    Cyclefree said:

    Can I just say that automatic hoovers are the absolute pits. As are Dysons - really poorly designed and expensive for what they are.

    Finding a decent vacuum cleaner for hard flooring which actually picks up the dirt is harder than it seems. Lots of models but in my experience they all fall apart after a bit. I've tried G-Tech: fell to bits. My Bosch is now playing silly buggers.

    Ideally I'd like a cordless one for a quick clean (I have a Henry for a proper vacuum). I am currently doing research on the topic. Any tips gratefully received.

    I bought a cordless one from Lidl Spain last year for 89€ - works great on our all tiled floors - very easy to clean /change filters etc. Outperforms our previous cordless Dyson by miles and around €350 less expensive. It laso looks good on the wall!
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    Cyclefree said:

    What about furniture? How does it move that or get under it or get into spaces into which it does not fit?
    Can't see it - not there. :smile:
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    Cyclefree said:

    Can I just say that automatic hoovers are the absolute pits. As are Dysons - really poorly designed and expensive for what they are.

    Finding a decent vacuum cleaner for hard flooring which actually picks up the dirt is harder than it seems. Lots of models but in my experience they all fall apart after a bit. I've tried G-Tech: fell to bits. My Bosch is now playing silly buggers.

    Ideally I'd like a cordless one for a quick clean (I have a Henry for a proper vacuum). I am currently doing research on the topic. Any tips gratefully received.

    I bought my GOBLIN in about 1975. It uses paper bags and, apart from the odd little mend, works just fine. My partner her modern Dyson is fairly crappy. Speaking with passion, sometimes older is better.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,651
    Leon said:

    Have you ever been canvassing with a candidate, in a less than rich area? I have.

    It is pretty sobering. About every 3rd house you think, OMFG these people are deciding the future of the nation. They haven't got a clue. They can barely boil an egg.

    I love the idea of democracy but I wonder if it has peaked. I'm serious. First, we have the success of China, clearly out-performing the USA, in almost every way now (including pandemic-management, despite starting a pandemic). In China, the technocratic Party decides. but as the Party can take a longer view than any individual, the Party is wiser. This model becomes increasingly seductive to many, as America declines and China ascends. Cf Singapore. Basically a one party state which has beautifully married English Common Law to Chinese autocracy.

    Second, AI. How far away is the moment when a computer will make a better political choice than any average human? About 10 minutes, I reckon.

    The future will be special, neutral, bespoke voting robots, deciding our elections.

    I am serious. I think democracy, as we know it, is nearly done. The machines know better, that's why they fly our planes and will soon drive our cars. After that, they select our government
    China is certainly outperforming the US on the genocide stakes. Oh and on the mass rape of women belonging to the wrong ethnic minority.
  • None of this bodes well for how they will deal with the euro economic crisis after covid.
    Probably the same way we will deal with our sterling crisis after covid.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,689
    Morning all. OK, so let me make sure that I've got this right:

    Wednesday afternoon, Bozo says that there will be an announcement on quarantine hotels on Thursday.
    Thursday morning, Zahawi says oh no, there won't be an announcement until next week.
    Late Thursday evening, government friends in the media announce it will start on 15th Feb.

    I don't see a problem there.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,219
    Charles said:

    There was a little motel bang next door to Hell Airport that I was once stuck in for a couple of days. Nothing to do but look at an empty vending machine
    There was an Alton? hotel, not far from Aberdeen that was quite special, back in the 90s

    The local joke was that it was converted from a prison. But changed to a hotel when the prison inspectors decided it was substandard.

    It just radiated grimness and despair.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,101
    HYUFD said:

    Scotland was certainly not more restrictive on Christmas Day than London and the SE
    yes it was , less people allowed (6 max)and limited to one house only and lockdown at midnight that day.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    edited February 2021
    Okay, I found Heathrow traffic numbers for last year.
    How many hotel rooms do we reckon we need? 300k? Plus how many other airports?


    Source: https://www.heathrow.com/content/dam/heathrow/web/common/documents/company/investor/reports-and-presentations/traffic-statistics/Heathrow_Monthly_Traffic_Statistics_Jan_2005_Dec_2020.xlsx
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,101
    Toms said:

    I bought my GOBLIN in about 1975. It uses paper bags and, apart from the odd little mend, works just fine. My partner her modern Dyson is fairly crappy. Speaking with passion, sometimes older is better.
    Shark are good on wooden floors
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,234
    edited February 2021
    malcolmg said:

    yes it was , less people allowed (6 max)and limited to one house only and lockdown at midnight that day.
    London and the SE was no mixing whatsoever on christmas day.

    Whether everyone followed that is another matter, but thats what the rules were.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    edited February 2021
    Charles said:

    There was a little motel bang next door to Hell Airport that I was once stuck in for a couple of days. Nothing to do but look at an empty vending machine
    Novotel Bangkok Airport for me, stuck there after a diversion. The hotel is slap bang between the two runways, every minute or so all the windows shake! And the bar shut at midnight!
  • Not a good look - what with Salmond.....
    https://twitter.com/ScottishSun/status/1357468062354702343?s=20
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,234
    edited February 2021
    Sandpit said:

    Okay, I found Heathrow traffic numbers for last year.
    How many hotel rooms do we reckon we need? 300k? Plus how many other airports?


    Source: https://www.heathrow.com/content/dam/heathrow/web/common/documents/company/investor/reports-and-presentations/traffic-statistics/Heathrow_Monthly_Traffic_Statistics_Jan_2005_Dec_2020.xlsx

    Here's Auckland numbers as of December 2020.

    Auckland Airport November passenger numbers
    Rolling 12-month total Previous 12-month average ± %
    International 3,637,232 10,484,850 -65.3
    Transit movements 302,962 1,038,296 -70.8
    Domestic 5,186,148 9,564,976 -45.8
    Total 9,126,342 21,088,122 -56.7
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,219
    I asked about this one the other day - the evidence seems clear, including some astonishing admissions from the prosecuting lawyers.

    But why did it happen? Was it that someone thought he was the "wrong" person to get control of Rangers?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,263
    Sandpit said:

    Okay, I found Heathrow traffic numbers for last year.
    How many hotel rooms do we reckon we need? 300k? Plus how many other airports?


    Source: https://www.heathrow.com/content/dam/heathrow/web/common/documents/company/investor/reports-and-presentations/traffic-statistics/Heathrow_Monthly_Traffic_Statistics_Jan_2005_Dec_2020.xlsx

    Airport quarantine kills the aviation industry. I don't think any airline can afford to repeat last year, unless a massive government bung.

    However necessary we feel a travel ban is, we have to recognise that not all travel is holidays. Some is essential family stuff for our large diaspora communities, both for Brits abroad and immigrants here.

    Any such policy needs a review date built in so that people can plan.
  • Sandpit said:

    Okay, I found Heathrow traffic numbers for last year.
    How many hotel rooms do we reckon we need? 300k? Plus how many other airports?


    Source: https://www.heathrow.com/content/dam/heathrow/web/common/documents/company/investor/reports-and-presentations/traffic-statistics/Heathrow_Monthly_Traffic_Statistics_Jan_2005_Dec_2020.xlsx

    Of course if a hotel quarantine policy for all (barring freight) was implemented then traveller numbers would be slashed to a fraction of those numbers as only essential trips would be made.

    Critics use that as an argument against the policy. It should be an argument in favour.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,630
    felix said:

    I bought a cordless one from Lidl Spain last year for 89€ - works great on our all tiled floors - very easy to clean /change filters etc. Outperforms our previous cordless Dyson by miles and around €350 less expensive. It laso looks good on the wall!
    What's wrong with sweeping hard floors? Much easier than hoovering...
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,630
    malcolmg said:

    Sooner it is razed to the ground the better, an absolute eyesore.
    Do we mean the building, or the whole of Swindon? Happy with either tbh, and I was born there...
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,705
    edited February 2021
    Leon said:

    Have you ever been canvassing with a candidate, in a less than rich area? I have.

    It is pretty sobering. About every 3rd house you think, OMFG these people are deciding the future of the nation. They haven't got a clue. They can barely boil an egg.

    I love the idea of democracy but I wonder if it has peaked. I'm serious. First, we have the success of China, clearly out-performing the USA, in almost every way now (including pandemic-management, despite starting a pandemic). In China, the technocratic Party decides. but as the Party can take a longer view than any individual, the Party is wiser. This model becomes increasingly seductive to many, as America declines and China ascends. Cf Singapore. Basically a one party state which has beautifully married English Common Law to Chinese autocracy.

    Second, AI. How far away is the moment when a computer will make a better political choice than any average human? About 10 minutes, I reckon.

    The future will be special, neutral, bespoke voting robots, deciding our elections.

    I am serious. I think democracy, as we know it, is nearly done. The machines know better, that's why they fly our planes and will soon drive our cars. After that, they select our government

    Interesting to hear that you have been canvassing with the PPC in poorer areas. I'm sure your flint knapping is all the richer for it.

    I have done so. Many, many times. And generally, when faced with a canvasser (if they want to give you the time of day which many don't, obvs), I have found that 99% of people of whatever socio-economic grouping have thought and do think about it very carefully. It is their one shot at making a difference in an otherwise perhaps quite powerless existence.

    Perhaps it's also because they are away from the pub/their mates/their peers/the bridge club/their agent's office.

    But all give thoughtful answers to questions. And of course some of the most pig-ignorant of them all are those of the higher socio-economic groupings.

    As I'm sure you found also.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    edited February 2021
    Foxy said:

    Airport quarantine kills the aviation industry. I don't think any airline can afford to repeat last year, unless a massive government bung.

    However necessary we feel a travel ban is, we have to recognise that not all travel is holidays. Some is essential family stuff for our large diaspora communities, both for Brits abroad and immigrants here.

    Any such policy needs a review date built in so that people can plan.
    If travel is that essential then people will have no issue with quarantining afterwards.

    People moving around for ‘family reasons’ (other than funerals) are a huge part of the problem.

    Some of us living abroad haven’t seen our parents for over a year. Doing so isn’t ‘essential’ unless they’re dying.

    Airlines and tour operators can be dealt with by the various furlough and loan schemes available.
  • gealbhan said:

    It’s the OPH to watch for isn’t it as litmus test, one jabbed and two? When it got in before it ran through it, when it gets in now will it not run through it.

    All eyes on the OPHs!
    Question is how many people were in the OPH? If there were anything between 50 and 100 people then 7 cases could well be correct for a vaccine of, say, 85% efficacy.

    It would be interesting to get details on these OPH cases. How many occupants? How long since 1st and 2nd jabs? How severe were the symptoms? It could be that the vaccine has worked well enough to prevent severe symptoms even if they do still get a mild case.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,180

    Site Admins - Please note I had to enter site through the vanilla forum route as using the www.politicalbetting.com entry route has been hijacked.

    I can no longer log on on my iphone. And even on the laptop that bloody annoying 3 spins thing comes up as often as the site.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 10,033
    Pagan2 said:

    That really is the difference for full information games like chess or go, they dont make the mistakes humans do...for incomplete information games like poker they do less well
    ... but they're catching up https://www.forbes.com/sites/bernardmarr/2019/09/13/artificial-intelligence-masters-the-game-of-poker--what-does-that-mean-for-humans/

    As for self driving cars, I'd like a Tesla but would not go for 'autopilot'. However if Tesla does get there it has access to many more inputs from cameras etc than a mere human so could well be safer. I would imagine that they would have to be 'trained' on each country as driving styles, size of roads, layout of towns in different countries vary a lot from the US.
  • Sandpit said:

    If travel is that essential then people will have no issue with quarantining afterwards.

    People moving around for ‘family reasons’ (other than funerals) are a huge part of the problem.

    Some of us living abroad haven’t seen our parents for over a year. Doing so isn’t ‘essential’ unless they’re dying.

    Airlines and tour operators can be dealt with by the various furlough and loan schemes available.
    Some of us not living abroad haven't seen our parents for almost a year. I feel for you mate, its hard.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Was the room heating set really, really hot in there?
    Hot enough that I wanted to roll in the snow I could see from the window
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,296
    Cyclefree said:

    Can I just say that automatic hoovers are the absolute pits. As are Dysons - really poorly designed and expensive for what they are.

    Finding a decent vacuum cleaner for hard flooring which actually picks up the dirt is harder than it seems. Lots of models but in my experience they all fall apart after a bit. I've tried G-Tech: fell to bits. My Bosch is now playing silly buggers.

    Ideally I'd like a cordless one for a quick clean (I have a Henry for a proper vacuum). I am currently doing research on the topic. Any tips gratefully received.

    Our Miele has been very good. Expensive but quiet, efficient and reliable.

    (Confession: Mrs P. does all the vacuuming, so my observations are hearsay but if it wasn't good, I'd have heard!)
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,188
    TOPPING said:

    Interesting to hear that you have been canvassing with the PPC in poorer areas. I'm sure your flint knapping is all the richer for it.

    I have done so. Many, many times. And generally, when faced with a canvasser (if they want to give you the time of day which many don't, obvs), I have found that 99% of people of whatever socio-economic grouping have thought and do think about it very carefully. It is their one shot at making a difference in an otherwise perhaps quite powerless existence.

    Perhaps it's also because they are away from the pub/their mates/their peers/the bridge club/their agent's office.

    But all give thoughtful answers to questions. And of course some of the most pig-ignorant of them all are those of the higher socio-economic groupings.

    As I'm sure you found also.
    Yep. Canvassing is a fascinating way to refresh one's devotion to democracy.

    During the darkest days of the Brexit shenanigans in Parliament we were canvassing for the all but inevitable coming election. The engagement with the debate was, frankly, better on the doorsteps. Far, far more nuance. And lots of previous Liberals wishing us luck as they were going to vote Tory 'for the first time in their life, because its democracy isn't it - you have to accept the result'.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,296
    DavidL said:

    I can no longer log on on my iphone. And even on the laptop that bloody annoying 3 spins thing comes up as often as the site.
    Not helpful but it's working fine on my Macbook, so it's not a universal issue.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,296
    Mortimer said:

    Yep. Canvassing is a fascinating way to refresh one's devotion to democracy.

    During the darkest days of the Brexit shenanigans in Parliament we were canvassing for the all but inevitable coming election. The engagement with the debate was, frankly, better on the doorsteps. Far, far more nuance. And lots of previous Liberals wishing us luck as they were going to vote Tory 'for the first time in their life, because its democracy isn't it - you have to accept the result'.
    We have never, ever had a canvasser knock on our door.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,180
    TOPPING said:

    Interesting to hear that you have been canvassing with the PPC in poorer areas. I'm sure your flint knapping is all the richer for it.

    I have done so. Many, many times. And generally, when faced with a canvasser (if they want to give you the time of day which many don't, obvs), I have found that 99% of people of whatever socio-economic grouping have thought and do think about it very carefully. It is their one shot at making a difference in an otherwise perhaps quite powerless existence.

    Perhaps it's also because they are away from the pub/their mates/their peers/the bridge club/their agent's office.

    But all give thoughtful answers to questions. And of course some of the most pig-ignorant of them all are those of the higher socio-economic groupings.

    As I'm sure you found also.
    That is almost as hyperbolic as @Leon's in the other direction. I still remember the guy who was going to vote against Scottish independence because of the way the SNP council had papered his kitchen. And another one who was voting no because he'd been banned from the local library.

    What I would say is that a lot of those I canvassed in such areas had focused on 1 thing that had a direct impact on their lives and had given it careful thought. For every bit of humour like the above there were as many genuinely thought provoking moments.

    The problem for democracy as I see it is that governments are increasingly powerless in the modern world and unable to change very much. For multinational companies tax in any one jurisdiction is becoming optional and it drives down the rates governments dare to claim. Increasingly this is the case with well heeled individuals as well. As these businesses become increasingly dominant in our economies the tax base is weakened to the point that governments are emasculated and have to do what they are told.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,705
    edited February 2021
    Mortimer said:

    Yep. Canvassing is a fascinating way to refresh one's devotion to democracy.

    During the darkest days of the Brexit shenanigans in Parliament we were canvassing for the all but inevitable coming election. The engagement with the debate was, frankly, better on the doorsteps. Far, far more nuance. And lots of previous Liberals wishing us luck as they were going to vote Tory 'for the first time in their life, because its democracy isn't it - you have to accept the result'.
    At the end of one long session (for Boris for Mayor if you can believe such a thing) I pushed something through a very nice looking house's letterbox and the bloke came running after me telling me couldn't I read, no junk mail, or whatever his sign said.

    Because I'd had it by that time, I returned a (slightly tired and emotional) mouthful about how dare you, junk mail indeed, democracy, freedom, people died, etc and he was not only contrite but he came to shake my hand and promised he would look at the flyer and make a decision with all the evidence in front of him.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,705

    We have never, ever had a canvasser knock on our door.
    No idea where you are but you would only be canvassed if it mattered and you were known to be a supporter to make sure you got out and voted as per your recorded preference.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,705
    DavidL said:

    That is almost as hyperbolic as @Leon's in the other direction. I still remember the guy who was going to vote against Scottish independence because of the way the SNP council had papered his kitchen. And another one who was voting no because he'd been banned from the local library.

    What I would say is that a lot of those I canvassed in such areas had focused on 1 thing that had a direct impact on their lives and had given it careful thought. For every bit of humour like the above there were as many genuinely thought provoking moments.

    The problem for democracy as I see it is that governments are increasingly powerless in the modern world and unable to change very much. For multinational companies tax in any one jurisdiction is becoming optional and it drives down the rates governments dare to claim. Increasingly this is the case with well heeled individuals as well. As these businesses become increasingly dominant in our economies the tax base is weakened to the point that governments are emasculated and have to do what they are told.
    "What I would say is that a lot of those I canvassed in such areas had focused on 1 thing that had a direct impact on their lives".

    Welcome to politics.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,180

    Of course if a hotel quarantine policy for all (barring freight) was implemented then traveller numbers would be slashed to a fraction of those numbers as only essential trips would be made.

    Critics use that as an argument against the policy. It should be an argument in favour.
    Over 1m people through Heathrow in December? And people are still trying to claim that some relaxation on Christmas day was the cause of the carnage in January? I despair, I really do. If we didn't have vaccines society would be doomed.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,738

    None of this bodes well for how they will deal with the euro economic crisis after covid.
    You only have to look at Italy to discover how bad it's going to be.

    In a lot of places support for businesses has only been available from the Mafia attached to their usual terms and conditions.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,180
    TOPPING said:

    "What I would say is that a lot of those I canvassed in such areas had focused on 1 thing that had a direct impact on their lives".

    Welcome to politics.
    Indeed although the answer can sometimes be counter intuitive. In the 1992 election, for example, I found a lot of unemployed who were voting Tory for the first time in their lives because they believed the Tories was their best chance of getting a job. And they were probably right (I was canvassing for the Lib Dems).
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