The Oxford/AZ vaccine gets approved – now ministers needs to ensure that it gets out quickly and in
Comments
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Never. His readers are not rational people.Andy_Cooke said:So:
981 deaths announced.
Essex calls in the military for desperate help with the ill.
Professor Whitty is seen working over Christmas in a ward to help with the extreme overstretch.
Meanwhile, Toby Young (the one who keeps calling Professor Whitty “Witless” for his strange insistence that there is, in fact, a problem) keeps penning pieces on how the NHS are doing fine, less stretched than in other years, and they’re just making it up when they say that there’s a problem from these false positives.
At what point do his readers finally conclude that he’s delusional or crooked?0 -
Presumably it will depend on who the local practices can contact, given that the vaccines have quite short shelf-lives once out of ultra-cold storage.IanB2 said:
As a category 3 person, your experience suggests they aren't sticking too strictly to the priorities, given that there are tons of over 80s still waiting.Barnesian said:
I've just had my jab at my local surgery. I'm in the 75-79 age cohort. My surgery intends to do 3,000 vaccinations of this cohort today. Their organisation is impressive. It includes sitting with a cup of tea for 15 minutes after the jab to make sure you don't keel over. I didn't keel over.JohnLilburne said:
As at 20 December, in England, 366,715 over-80s and 154,879 16-79 year olds had had their first jabs. Unless there is a priority group I am unaware of, the latter figure should be predominantly health and care home workers https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-vaccinations/Malmesbury said:
Something else to think of.LostPassword said:
Maybe. When things were (maybe still are?) very bad in Liege, in Belgium, in the autumn they were asking asymptomatic staff to work in the Covid wards.Philip_Thompson said:
Which is another reason the best thing for the NHS is to protect the 1.6 million first before doctors and nurses.LostPassword said:
Most of the trials didn't test whether people were infected, only if they were showing symptoms.kinabalu said:
The point I do not fully get is this one about "does the vaccine stop you spreading it?" This is apparently not proven by the trials but I don't understand why not. We know it reduces the chance of being infected. So the inference here is it might be possible to pass on the virus without being infected yourself? Is that it?DavidL said:
I think that is a good way to look at it and a good reason for our current ranking of priorities. This disease is not equal opportunity. The vast majority of 21 year olds who get it will not be ill at all. Many may not even know that they've had it. We all want to get to that stage as fast as possible but especially those who are likely to suffer serious complications as a result.kinabalu said:
Yes, that looms large in my thinking. I'd accept a higher chance of catching it in exchange for a lower chance of getting seriously ill. I'd accept being 21 again, as it were.DavidL said:
From the national as opposed to the personal interest it is really the first of these "other things" that is the key. If you are unlucky enough to catch the virus anyway despite your improved chances you are unlikely to need hospital treatment.kinabalu said:
Very interesting question. Hope others more viro'd up answer but here is my take -NickPalmer said:Do we have any idea whether x% effectiveness means
(1) "x% of the population become immune with this vaccine, and can meet infected people all the time and never catch it" or
(2) "everyone has a reduction of x% in the probability of catching the infection on any one occasion exposed to it"?
If (1) were the case, then if x is high (e.g. Pfizer's 95%), we might start behaving normally. In particular, NHS staff who meet infected people all the time might be well-prrotected. If (2) is the case then we still need to socially distance etc. until the spread drops so far that you rarely meet an infected person (because you'll still catch it if you keep meeting them, just "100-x%" of time you would have caught it before).
Unfortunately, I'm not sure we can answer this?
A vax effectiveness of 90% means that if I take it my risk of becoming infected is 10% of what it would be if I did not take it.
So, for example, if my condition and lifestyle means I have a 50% chance of getting Covid in the next 3 months, if I take the vaccine, all else being equal, my chance of getting it drops to 5%.
And then hopefully the vax does 2 other things for me. It reduces the chance of me getting VERY sick if I do get it. And it stops me somehow spreading it despite not having it.
So it's possible that the vaccines prevented the symptoms, but not the infection - so a vaccinated person could still spread the virus asymptomatically to a person who hasn't received the vaccine.
Preventing the symptoms and thus hospitalisations will go a long way to reducing the strain on the NHS. But if a doctor or nurse gets the vaccine, becomes an asymptomatic carrier and then tests positive they'll still have to be removed from the front line even though they're vaccinated.
If the system is on the verge of collapse it's the sort of decision that becomes necessary.
I don't think the detail of the vaccine rollout will end up making the crucial difference. The critical factor is: Can restrictions in lockdown three reduce the infection rate?
If they can't then the vaccination programme isn't going to have an effect fast enough to prevent collapse of the hospital system.
We'll find out whether the infection rate is coming under control during next week - when they'll only just be starting to use the AZN vaccine.
We are well north of 800,000 first doses.
the policy so far has been to aim for
75% over 80s
20% care home staff
5% NHS staff
The earliest numbers suggest that about 70% over 80s is being achieved, with the balance being taken up by NHS staff.
if 5% - 40,000 NHS staff
if 10% - 80,000 NHS staff
There are, apparently 295,620 nurses in the NHS and 121,256 doctors -
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/nhs-nurse-numbers-continue-rising-with-13840-more-than-last-year
Assuming these are all frontline staff (not actually the case) - somewhere between 10 and 20% of the NHS medical workforce have received their first jab.0 -
I'm due to stay at The Cookie Jar in February.Gallowgate said:In other news, I'm off to Alnwick Castle Gardens tonight to see their light show. The only thing worth looking forward to for another 6 months probably.
Can't see that happening.0 -
His detractors only have to counter his figures with better ones on ICU occupancy to destroy his argument.Andy_Cooke said:So:
981 deaths announced.
Essex calls in the military for desperate help with the ill.
Professor Whitty is seen working over Christmas in a ward to help with the extreme overstretch.
Meanwhile, Toby Young (the one who keeps calling Professor Whitty “Witless” for his strange insistence that there is, in fact, a problem) keeps penning pieces on how the NHS are doing fine, less stretched than in other years, and they’re just making it up when they say that there’s a problem from these false positives.
At what point do his readers finally conclude that he’s delusional or crooked?
They haven;t. as far as I can see. All they have is bluster and anecdote.
I wish somebody would. Genuinely.0 -
OK
So:
@MikeSmithson I owe the site £20. How do I get it to you?
Second - is anyone interested in crowdfunding a prosecution of Williamson for perjury, given his entire strategy is completely unworkable and he repeatedly misled the House on the current situation in education?2 -
They are keeping the schools open which is their priority. He is "not willing to sacrifice the life chances of children" in the fight against Covid.ydoethur said:Again, he is talking complete bullshit. Unless he is giving a full month (edit - and he isn't) the mass testing regime is going to be completely inoperable, rather than merely totally useless.
This government is genuinely evil.
The mass testing program I appreciate they should be called on if it's unworkable.0 -
Or she an atypical gestation periodydoethur said:
Isabella, Duchess of York, gave birth to a son when her husband had not been within ten miles of her for over four years.Luckyguy1983 said:
He must have had truly awesome powers of ejaculation and aim.0 -
Keep them closed until Williamson is replaced would be a handy measure for marking an improvement in goverment response.londonpubman said:Useless by Williamson. We need to keep the schools closed until end Jan at the earliest. Certainly the secondary schools.
4 -
Labour meanwhile criticising the government for both opening and not opening the schools.1
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True - although it suggests to me that host practices are working further down their own patient lists than they should, rather than embarking on the more difficult task of pulling in priority people from elsewhere.david_herdson said:
Presumably it will depend on who the local practices can contact, given that the vaccines have quite short shelf-lives once out of ultra-cold storage.IanB2 said:
As a category 3 person, your experience suggests they aren't sticking too strictly to the priorities, given that there are tons of over 80s still waiting.Barnesian said:
I've just had my jab at my local surgery. I'm in the 75-79 age cohort. My surgery intends to do 3,000 vaccinations of this cohort today. Their organisation is impressive. It includes sitting with a cup of tea for 15 minutes after the jab to make sure you don't keel over. I didn't keel over.JohnLilburne said:
As at 20 December, in England, 366,715 over-80s and 154,879 16-79 year olds had had their first jabs. Unless there is a priority group I am unaware of, the latter figure should be predominantly health and care home workers https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-vaccinations/Malmesbury said:
Something else to think of.LostPassword said:
Maybe. When things were (maybe still are?) very bad in Liege, in Belgium, in the autumn they were asking asymptomatic staff to work in the Covid wards.Philip_Thompson said:
Which is another reason the best thing for the NHS is to protect the 1.6 million first before doctors and nurses.LostPassword said:
Most of the trials didn't test whether people were infected, only if they were showing symptoms.kinabalu said:
The point I do not fully get is this one about "does the vaccine stop you spreading it?" This is apparently not proven by the trials but I don't understand why not. We know it reduces the chance of being infected. So the inference here is it might be possible to pass on the virus without being infected yourself? Is that it?DavidL said:
I think that is a good way to look at it and a good reason for our current ranking of priorities. This disease is not equal opportunity. The vast majority of 21 year olds who get it will not be ill at all. Many may not even know that they've had it. We all want to get to that stage as fast as possible but especially those who are likely to suffer serious complications as a result.kinabalu said:
Yes, that looms large in my thinking. I'd accept a higher chance of catching it in exchange for a lower chance of getting seriously ill. I'd accept being 21 again, as it were.DavidL said:
From the national as opposed to the personal interest it is really the first of these "other things" that is the key. If you are unlucky enough to catch the virus anyway despite your improved chances you are unlikely to need hospital treatment.kinabalu said:
Very interesting question. Hope others more viro'd up answer but here is my take -NickPalmer said:Do we have any idea whether x% effectiveness means
(1) "x% of the population become immune with this vaccine, and can meet infected people all the time and never catch it" or
(2) "everyone has a reduction of x% in the probability of catching the infection on any one occasion exposed to it"?
If (1) were the case, then if x is high (e.g. Pfizer's 95%), we might start behaving normally. In particular, NHS staff who meet infected people all the time might be well-prrotected. If (2) is the case then we still need to socially distance etc. until the spread drops so far that you rarely meet an infected person (because you'll still catch it if you keep meeting them, just "100-x%" of time you would have caught it before).
Unfortunately, I'm not sure we can answer this?
A vax effectiveness of 90% means that if I take it my risk of becoming infected is 10% of what it would be if I did not take it.
So, for example, if my condition and lifestyle means I have a 50% chance of getting Covid in the next 3 months, if I take the vaccine, all else being equal, my chance of getting it drops to 5%.
And then hopefully the vax does 2 other things for me. It reduces the chance of me getting VERY sick if I do get it. And it stops me somehow spreading it despite not having it.
So it's possible that the vaccines prevented the symptoms, but not the infection - so a vaccinated person could still spread the virus asymptomatically to a person who hasn't received the vaccine.
Preventing the symptoms and thus hospitalisations will go a long way to reducing the strain on the NHS. But if a doctor or nurse gets the vaccine, becomes an asymptomatic carrier and then tests positive they'll still have to be removed from the front line even though they're vaccinated.
If the system is on the verge of collapse it's the sort of decision that becomes necessary.
I don't think the detail of the vaccine rollout will end up making the crucial difference. The critical factor is: Can restrictions in lockdown three reduce the infection rate?
If they can't then the vaccination programme isn't going to have an effect fast enough to prevent collapse of the hospital system.
We'll find out whether the infection rate is coming under control during next week - when they'll only just be starting to use the AZN vaccine.
We are well north of 800,000 first doses.
the policy so far has been to aim for
75% over 80s
20% care home staff
5% NHS staff
The earliest numbers suggest that about 70% over 80s is being achieved, with the balance being taken up by NHS staff.
if 5% - 40,000 NHS staff
if 10% - 80,000 NHS staff
There are, apparently 295,620 nurses in the NHS and 121,256 doctors -
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/nhs-nurse-numbers-continue-rising-with-13840-more-than-last-year
Assuming these are all frontline staff (not actually the case) - somewhere between 10 and 20% of the NHS medical workforce have received their first jab.0 -
Tears in the Enjineeya household today. Step-daughter had a 4-hour hairdressing appointment booked for tomorrow; now cancelled and she has to go back to uni with "horrible hair". Oh, the humanity!1
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To be fair, that is quite ballsy of the government, under the circumstances.CarlottaVance said:
Attitudes, apart from on here, are hardening a bit, I think.0 -
Similar boat - we planned for practicals to start Jan 11th. Wording today could go either way.ydoethur said:No mention of what's happening to next week's exams yet.
He does know they're scheduled, doesn't he?1 -
Well, it is. There is simply no way it can be delivered - probably not at all, certainly not in the timeframes. Even if they did, these tests are of very little value and therefore will do little to cut the transmission of the disease.TOPPING said:
They are keeping the schools open which is their priority. He is "not willing to sacrifice the life chances of children" in the fight against Covid.ydoethur said:Again, he is talking complete bullshit. Unless he is giving a full month (edit - and he isn't) the mass testing regime is going to be completely inoperable, rather than merely totally useless.
This government is genuinely evil.
The mass testing program I appreciate they should be called on if it's unworkable.
So, it is clearly a gimmick to cover up their complete and abject failure to control the virus in schools.1 -
On the false positive point, Andy, I understand that PCR tests record as positive those who had the virus in the past but still have some trace in their bodies, even though they are not now infected, as such, and are not contagious. If this is correct (it may not be) are these positives really positives in the useful sense of the word?Andy_Cooke said:So:
981 deaths announced.
Essex calls in the military for desperate help with the ill.
Professor Whitty is seen working over Christmas in a ward to help with the extreme overstretch.
Meanwhile, Toby Young (the one who keeps calling Professor Whitty “Witless” for his strange insistence that there is, in fact, a problem) keeps penning pieces on how the NHS are doing fine, less stretched than in other years, and they’re just making it up when they say that there’s a problem from these false positives.
At what point do his readers finally conclude that he’s delusional or crooked?0 -
That place looks rather lovely. No - I can't see that happening unfortunately.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm due to stay at The Cookie Jar in February.Gallowgate said:In other news, I'm off to Alnwick Castle Gardens tonight to see their light show. The only thing worth looking forward to for another 6 months probably.
Can't see that happening.0 -
I'm not going to be actually "at uni" again this academic year, am I?0
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Millions of parents are now screaming.CarlottaVance said:1 -
Maybe this will assistTheuniondivvie said:
How does it go?williamglenn said:
It's not "according to Norway", but "according to a Eurosceptic opposition party looking to score points against the Norwegian government".Big_G_NorthWales said:
According to Norway the UK has a better deal than their EEA one and are seeking to open negotiations with the the EU to improve their arrangements in line with the UK- EU dealScott_xP said:
Big_G never mentioned that - can't imagine why......
https://twitter.com/EuroGuido/status/1344263379796586501?s=190 -
Today, even more, labour look like an analogue party in a digital age.TOPPING said:Labour meanwhile criticising the government for both opening and not opening the schools.
1 -
On a serious note that is an opportunity to manage the epidemic as seeing it as an inconvenience rather than anything more serious.FeersumEnjineeya said:Tears in the Enjineeya household today. Step-daughter had a 4-hour hairdressing appointment booked for tomorrow; now cancelled and she has to go back to uni with "horrible hair". Oh, the humanity!
0 -
No.Gallowgate said:I'm not going to be actually "at uni" again this academic year, am I?
0 -
Hooray, Kate Green gets it on exams.0
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Got tickets for a gig in April. I guess that wont be happening. If it was June or July then maybe.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm due to stay at The Cookie Jar in February.Gallowgate said:In other news, I'm off to Alnwick Castle Gardens tonight to see their light show. The only thing worth looking forward to for another 6 months probably.
Can't see that happening.0 -
Looks to me like he's flagging.CarlottaVance said:0 -
First exam for my students is Tuesday. Kate Green just brought this up. Let's see if Gavin remembers to mention it.BannedinnParis said:
Similar boat - we planned for practicals to start Jan 11th. Wording today could go either way.ydoethur said:No mention of what's happening to next week's exams yet.
He does know they're scheduled, doesn't he?0 -
Only if you think 'most' means 'all'. I don't like the man but the shriller you get the less effective you are.ydoethur said:
I take it he does know most schools will have INSET on Monday?Big_G_NorthWales said:In England primary schools to open on the 4th January
He should say, 'next week.'1 -
Best £12,000 I've ever spent.ydoethur said:
No.Gallowgate said:I'm not going to be actually "at uni" again this academic year, am I?
0 -
I believe the approved response is 981 deaths is high but does not indicate a surge in itself.Andy_Cooke said:So:
981 deaths announced.
Essex calls in the military for desperate help with the ill.
Professor Whitty is seen working over Christmas in a ward to help with the extreme overstretch.
Meanwhile, Toby Young (the one who keeps calling Professor Whitty “Witless” for his strange insistence that there is, in fact, a problem) keeps penning pieces on how the NHS are doing fine, less stretched than in other years, and they’re just making it up when they say that there’s a problem from these false positives.
At what point do his readers finally conclude that he’s delusional or crooked?0 -
Guardian BREAKING from Greece:
The Greek government has announced senior officials will no longer be given priority for the vaccine after posts on social media by Cabinet ministers receiving the shot before most healthcare workers led to a backlash from unions and opposition parties.
Aristotelia Peloni, a deputy spokeswoman for the right wing government, said that the vaccination selfies were “wrong” and the plan to vaccinate 126 officials from the government and state-run organisations was being cut short after around half had received the shot.
It had been expected that a small number of senior officials would receive the vaccine publicly, as part of a plan to persuade everyone that it was safe and necessary, but the number of people on the list took many by surprise.1 -
Think of the benefit to your liver.Gallowgate said:I'm not going to be actually "at uni" again this academic year, am I?
0 -
We paid £60 billion for ours.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Maybe this will assistTheuniondivvie said:
How does it go?williamglenn said:
It's not "according to Norway", but "according to a Eurosceptic opposition party looking to score points against the Norwegian government".Big_G_NorthWales said:
According to Norway the UK has a better deal than their EEA one and are seeking to open negotiations with the the EU to improve their arrangements in line with the UK- EU dealScott_xP said:
Big_G never mentioned that - can't imagine why......
https://twitter.com/EuroGuido/status/1344263379796586501?s=190 -
Over to you Stocky. I have steered clear of the false positive PCR test issue.Stocky said:
On the false positive point, Andy, I understand that PCR tests record as positive those who had the virus in the past but still have some trace in their bodies, even though they are not now infected, as such, and are not contagious. If this is correct (it may not be), are these positives really positives in the useful sense of the word?Andy_Cooke said:So:
981 deaths announced.
Essex calls in the military for desperate help with the ill.
Professor Whitty is seen working over Christmas in a ward to help with the extreme overstretch.
Meanwhile, Toby Young (the one who keeps calling Professor Whitty “Witless” for his strange insistence that there is, in fact, a problem) keeps penning pieces on how the NHS are doing fine, less stretched than in other years, and they’re just making it up when they say that there’s a problem from these false positives.
At what point do his readers finally conclude that he’s delusional or crooked?
There's only so much hatred One person can take.1 -
Why always 4 flags?CarlottaVance said:
Nonsense, he's jacked about this..ydoethur said:
Looks to me like he's flagging.CarlottaVance said:1 -
You'd only be caught with your hand in it (whatever 'it' might be).TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm due to stay at The Cookie Jar in February.Gallowgate said:In other news, I'm off to Alnwick Castle Gardens tonight to see their light show. The only thing worth looking forward to for another 6 months probably.
Can't see that happening.0 -
I have never worked in a school - and I've worked in five - that did not have INSET on the first Monday of January. That doesn't mean there aren't any, but it's unusual in my experience. He is sending out confused messages for no reason.felix said:
Only if you think 'most' means 'all'. I don't like the man but the shriller you get the less effective you are.ydoethur said:
I take it he does know most schools will have INSET on Monday?Big_G_NorthWales said:In England primary schools to open on the 4th January
He should say, 'next week.'
And he is waffling like you can't believe it right now.1 -
If the number of positive tests are higher than they should be, then the rate at which those who test positive are dying within 28 days of a test is even worse than understood.Stocky said:
On the false positive point, Andy, I understand that PCR tests record as positive those who had the virus in the past but still have some trace in their bodies, even though they are not now infected, as such, and are not contagious. If this is correct (it may not be), are these positives really positives in the useful sense of the word?Andy_Cooke said:So:
981 deaths announced.
Essex calls in the military for desperate help with the ill.
Professor Whitty is seen working over Christmas in a ward to help with the extreme overstretch.
Meanwhile, Toby Young (the one who keeps calling Professor Whitty “Witless” for his strange insistence that there is, in fact, a problem) keeps penning pieces on how the NHS are doing fine, less stretched than in other years, and they’re just making it up when they say that there’s a problem from these false positives.
At what point do his readers finally conclude that he’s delusional or crooked?
However, if you have symptoms and have virus somewhere up your nose, it is probable that you are meaningfully infected. And the number who are found with virus up their nose remorselessly rising does indicate that the spread is worsening no matter what, because it was certainly active when it got up there.1 -
Not sure that Germans being angry about Israel is the greatest of optics.CarlottaVance said:0 -
Very goodydoethur said:
Looks to me like he's flagging.CarlottaVance said:0 -
Jan exams/technical tests to go ahead as planned0
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I actually support senior politicians getting jabs relatively high up the priority list, but how they couldnt have foreseen such a backlash I have no idea.IanB2 said:Guardian BREAKING from Greece:
The Greek government has announced senior officials will no longer be given priority for the vaccine after posts on social media by Cabinet ministers receiving the shot before most healthcare workers led to a backlash from unions and opposition parties.
Aristotelia Peloni, a deputy spokeswoman for the right wing government, said that the vaccination selfies were “wrong” and the plan to vaccinate 126 officials from the government and state-run organisations was being cut short after around half had received the shot.
It had been expected that a small number of senior officials would receive the vaccine publicly, as part of a plan to persuade everyone that it was safe and necessary, but the number of people on the list took many by surprise.0 -
Yes, they're wrong. They've made a series of bad decisions since the procurement taskforce was disbanded. Everything we've done since building the world's best portfolio has been a disaster. Roll out, prioritisation and now ignoring pharma advice on dosing. All of these should be done better and the people in charge are clueless.CarlottaVance said:
You mean the JVIC, they're the ones recommending moving to "up to 12 weeks".TheScreamingEagles said:
FFS.FrancisUrquhart said:Pfizer warns there is NO proof its Covid jab works when doses are taken 12 weeks apart as UK regulator scraps 21-day rule in desperate attempt to get millions more vaccinated
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9099049/Questions-Britains-decision-drop-two-dose-vaccine-regimen.html
This government really has screwed the pooch.
I retract all the nice comments I said about the government's approach on vaccines.
Are you saying the government should ignore their advice?0 -
That should not be a HUUUUGE problem as most of us are in various varieties of lockdown.david_herdson said:
Presumably it will depend on who the local practices can contact, given that the vaccines have quite short shelf-lives once out of ultra-cold storage.IanB2 said:
As a category 3 person, your experience suggests they aren't sticking too strictly to the priorities, given that there are tons of over 80s still waiting.Barnesian said:
I've just had my jab at my local surgery. I'm in the 75-79 age cohort. My surgery intends to do 3,000 vaccinations of this cohort today. Their organisation is impressive. It includes sitting with a cup of tea for 15 minutes after the jab to make sure you don't keel over. I didn't keel over.JohnLilburne said:
As at 20 December, in England, 366,715 over-80s and 154,879 16-79 year olds had had their first jabs. Unless there is a priority group I am unaware of, the latter figure should be predominantly health and care home workers https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-vaccinations/Malmesbury said:
Something else to think of.LostPassword said:
Maybe. When things were (maybe still are?) very bad in Liege, in Belgium, in the autumn they were asking asymptomatic staff to work in the Covid wards.Philip_Thompson said:
Which is another reason the best thing for the NHS is to protect the 1.6 million first before doctors and nurses.LostPassword said:
Most of the trials didn't test whether people were infected, only if they were showing symptoms.kinabalu said:
The point I do not fully get is this one about "does the vaccine stop you spreading it?" This is apparently not proven by the trials but I don't understand why not. We know it reduces the chance of being infected. So the inference here is it might be possible to pass on the virus without being infected yourself? Is that it?DavidL said:
I think that is a good way to look at it and a good reason for our current ranking of priorities. This disease is not equal opportunity. The vast majority of 21 year olds who get it will not be ill at all. Many may not even know that they've had it. We all want to get to that stage as fast as possible but especially those who are likely to suffer serious complications as a result.kinabalu said:
Yes, that looms large in my thinking. I'd accept a higher chance of catching it in exchange for a lower chance of getting seriously ill. I'd accept being 21 again, as it were.DavidL said:
From the national as opposed to the personal interest it is really the first of these "other things" that is the key. If you are unlucky enough to catch the virus anyway despite your improved chances you are unlikely to need hospital treatment.kinabalu said:
Very interesting question. Hope others more viro'd up answer but here is my take -NickPalmer said:Do we have any idea whether x% effectiveness means
(1) "x% of the population become immune with this vaccine, and can meet infected people all the time and never catch it" or
(2) "everyone has a reduction of x% in the probability of catching the infection on any one occasion exposed to it"?
If (1) were the case, then if x is high (e.g. Pfizer's 95%), we might start behaving normally. In particular, NHS staff who meet infected people all the time might be well-prrotected. If (2) is the case then we still need to socially distance etc. until the spread drops so far that you rarely meet an infected person (because you'll still catch it if you keep meeting them, just "100-x%" of time you would have caught it before).
Unfortunately, I'm not sure we can answer this?
A vax effectiveness of 90% means that if I take it my risk of becoming infected is 10% of what it would be if I did not take it.
So, for example, if my condition and lifestyle means I have a 50% chance of getting Covid in the next 3 months, if I take the vaccine, all else being equal, my chance of getting it drops to 5%.
And then hopefully the vax does 2 other things for me. It reduces the chance of me getting VERY sick if I do get it. And it stops me somehow spreading it despite not having it.
So it's possible that the vaccines prevented the symptoms, but not the infection - so a vaccinated person could still spread the virus asymptomatically to a person who hasn't received the vaccine.
Preventing the symptoms and thus hospitalisations will go a long way to reducing the strain on the NHS. But if a doctor or nurse gets the vaccine, becomes an asymptomatic carrier and then tests positive they'll still have to be removed from the front line even though they're vaccinated.
If the system is on the verge of collapse it's the sort of decision that becomes necessary.
I don't think the detail of the vaccine rollout will end up making the crucial difference. The critical factor is: Can restrictions in lockdown three reduce the infection rate?
If they can't then the vaccination programme isn't going to have an effect fast enough to prevent collapse of the hospital system.
We'll find out whether the infection rate is coming under control during next week - when they'll only just be starting to use the AZN vaccine.
We are well north of 800,000 first doses.
the policy so far has been to aim for
75% over 80s
20% care home staff
5% NHS staff
The earliest numbers suggest that about 70% over 80s is being achieved, with the balance being taken up by NHS staff.
if 5% - 40,000 NHS staff
if 10% - 80,000 NHS staff
There are, apparently 295,620 nurses in the NHS and 121,256 doctors -
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/nhs-nurse-numbers-continue-rising-with-13840-more-than-last-year
Assuming these are all frontline staff (not actually the case) - somewhere between 10 and 20% of the NHS medical workforce have received their first jab.
0 -
You can't win with that sort of thing. No senior people do it, you get criticized for not setting an example and giving the public confidence its safe....you get senior officials to do it, and they are accused.of being queue jumpers.IanB2 said:Guardian BREAKING from Greece:
The Greek government has announced senior officials will no longer be given priority for the vaccine after posts on social media by Cabinet ministers receiving the shot before most healthcare workers led to a backlash from unions and opposition parties.
Aristotelia Peloni, a deputy spokeswoman for the right wing government, said that the vaccination selfies were “wrong” and the plan to vaccinate 126 officials from the government and state-run organisations was being cut short after around half had received the shot.
It had been expected that a small number of senior officials would receive the vaccine publicly, as part of a plan to persuade everyone that it was safe and necessary, but the number of people on the list took many by surprise.0 -
Not sure that Germans being angry about Israel is the greatest of optics.CarlottaVance said:
Corruption in Greece - the cradle of civilisation. who'd a thought it?IanB2 said:Guardian BREAKING from Greece:
The Greek government has announced senior officials will no longer be given priority for the vaccine after posts on social media by Cabinet ministers receiving the shot before most healthcare workers led to a backlash from unions and opposition parties.
Aristotelia Peloni, a deputy spokeswoman for the right wing government, said that the vaccination selfies were “wrong” and the plan to vaccinate 126 officials from the government and state-run organisations was being cut short after around half had received the shot.
It had been expected that a small number of senior officials would receive the vaccine publicly, as part of a plan to persuade everyone that it was safe and necessary, but the number of people on the list took many by surprise.0 -
Now the Brexit deal is confirmed, there is no possible justification for Johnson to persevere with his spectacularly useless, nodding dog, cabinet. Even among the current massed ranks of dull, dim-witted, disingenuous Tory MPs, there must be better than the current crop of ministers.2
-
Not at all. Keep at it. Yours is a vitally important voice.contrarian said:
Over to you Stocky. I have steered clear of the false positive PCR test issue.Stocky said:
On the false positive point, Andy, I understand that PCR tests record as positive those who had the virus in the past but still have some trace in their bodies, even though they are not now infected, as such, and are not contagious. If this is correct (it may not be), are these positives really positives in the useful sense of the word?Andy_Cooke said:So:
981 deaths announced.
Essex calls in the military for desperate help with the ill.
Professor Whitty is seen working over Christmas in a ward to help with the extreme overstretch.
Meanwhile, Toby Young (the one who keeps calling Professor Whitty “Witless” for his strange insistence that there is, in fact, a problem) keeps penning pieces on how the NHS are doing fine, less stretched than in other years, and they’re just making it up when they say that there’s a problem from these false positives.
At what point do his readers finally conclude that he’s delusional or crooked?
There's only so much hatred One person can take.
As I have said I'm not 100% with you but the thrust of what you post rings absolutely true.1 -
I'm not sure there is any evidence of a surge in deaths. Look at the numbers. 981 comes after a bank holiday weekend when the numbers were lower. We seem to be recording 400-500 covid deaths daily, though the excess deaths is only (a not insignificant) 250.0
-
You must not confuse hatred with howls of derisive laughter.contrarian said:
Over to you Stocky. I have steered clear of the false positive PCR test issue.Stocky said:
On the false positive point, Andy, I understand that PCR tests record as positive those who had the virus in the past but still have some trace in their bodies, even though they are not now infected, as such, and are not contagious. If this is correct (it may not be), are these positives really positives in the useful sense of the word?Andy_Cooke said:So:
981 deaths announced.
Essex calls in the military for desperate help with the ill.
Professor Whitty is seen working over Christmas in a ward to help with the extreme overstretch.
Meanwhile, Toby Young (the one who keeps calling Professor Whitty “Witless” for his strange insistence that there is, in fact, a problem) keeps penning pieces on how the NHS are doing fine, less stretched than in other years, and they’re just making it up when they say that there’s a problem from these false positives.
At what point do his readers finally conclude that he’s delusional or crooked?
There's only so much hatred One person can take.4 -
Assessments will continue as planned.
In closed schools?1 -
'Norwegian politicians'Big_G_NorthWales said:
Maybe this will assistTheuniondivvie said:
How does it go?williamglenn said:
It's not "according to Norway", but "according to a Eurosceptic opposition party looking to score points against the Norwegian government".Big_G_NorthWales said:
According to Norway the UK has a better deal than their EEA one and are seeking to open negotiations with the the EU to improve their arrangements in line with the UK- EU dealScott_xP said:
Big_G never mentioned that - can't imagine why......
https://twitter.com/EuroGuido/status/1344263379796586501?s=19
More conclusive than a really conclusive thing being concluded.0 -
PM signing the worst policy mistake since the War.CarlottaVance said:
How many years will it take to undo the damage? He'll be long gone that's for sure.
Lucky that he so believes in what he has done.0 -
Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiine hundred and aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaattttttttttttteeee... one.0
-
Uk cases by specimen date
0 -
I think publicising target group celebs (Sir Ian McKellan was done recently) is fine - but politicians (who aren't trusted - "so what if they get the jab?") should steer clear until it's their turn.IanB2 said:Guardian BREAKING from Greece:
The Greek government has announced senior officials will no longer be given priority for the vaccine after posts on social media by Cabinet ministers receiving the shot before most healthcare workers led to a backlash from unions and opposition parties.
Aristotelia Peloni, a deputy spokeswoman for the right wing government, said that the vaccination selfies were “wrong” and the plan to vaccinate 126 officials from the government and state-run organisations was being cut short after around half had received the shot.
It had been expected that a small number of senior officials would receive the vaccine publicly, as part of a plan to persuade everyone that it was safe and necessary, but the number of people on the list took many by surprise.
Now it might well be when the "under 50s" cohort is prioritised they get them along with other public facing workers like bus drivers or policemen - but only then.
The British are fine with queues, its queue jumpers we can't abide.
5 -
I should ignore the reports on the ground?contrarian said:
His detractors only have to counter his figures with better ones on ICU occupancy to destroy his argument.Andy_Cooke said:So:
981 deaths announced.
Essex calls in the military for desperate help with the ill.
Professor Whitty is seen working over Christmas in a ward to help with the extreme overstretch.
Meanwhile, Toby Young (the one who keeps calling Professor Whitty “Witless” for his strange insistence that there is, in fact, a problem) keeps penning pieces on how the NHS are doing fine, less stretched than in other years, and they’re just making it up when they say that there’s a problem from these false positives.
At what point do his readers finally conclude that he’s delusional or crooked?
They haven;t. as far as I can see. All they have is bluster and anecdote.
I wish somebody would. Genuinely.
The internal memo from Southend asking for staff to give up holidays and return to work
The Essex Resilience forum report which states
"all acute NHS Trusts reporting high levels of staff sickness"
"Essex's whole health system is extremely stretched"
On the 29th they reported they were very close to overload
But you think everything is ok?
Delusional and dangerous
3 -
-
UK cases by specimen date and scaled to 100k population
0 -
Should have gone to the effing children's meet today after all.IshmaelZ said:
You must not confuse hatred with howls of derisive laughter.contrarian said:
Over to you Stocky. I have steered clear of the false positive PCR test issue.Stocky said:
On the false positive point, Andy, I understand that PCR tests record as positive those who had the virus in the past but still have some trace in their bodies, even though they are not now infected, as such, and are not contagious. If this is correct (it may not be), are these positives really positives in the useful sense of the word?Andy_Cooke said:So:
981 deaths announced.
Essex calls in the military for desperate help with the ill.
Professor Whitty is seen working over Christmas in a ward to help with the extreme overstretch.
Meanwhile, Toby Young (the one who keeps calling Professor Whitty “Witless” for his strange insistence that there is, in fact, a problem) keeps penning pieces on how the NHS are doing fine, less stretched than in other years, and they’re just making it up when they say that there’s a problem from these false positives.
At what point do his readers finally conclude that he’s delusional or crooked?
There's only so much hatred One person can take.0 -
UK local R
0 -
A fantastic award winning hotel.Theuniondivvie said:
You'd only be caught with your hand in it (whatever 'it' might be).TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm due to stay at The Cookie Jar in February.Gallowgate said:In other news, I'm off to Alnwick Castle Gardens tonight to see their light show. The only thing worth looking forward to for another 6 months probably.
Can't see that happening.
https://www.cookiejaralnwick.com/0 -
I think a reshuffle is planned.SouthamObserver said:Now the Brexit deal is confirmed, there is no possible justification for Johnson to persevere with his spectacularly useless, nodding dog, cabinet. Even among the current massed ranks of dull, dim-witted, disingenuous Tory MPs, there must be better than the current crop of ministers.
0 -
Thanks Mr Topping, genuinely.TOPPING said:
Not at all. Keep at it. Yours is a vitally important voice.contrarian said:
Over to you Stocky. I have steered clear of the false positive PCR test issue.Stocky said:
On the false positive point, Andy, I understand that PCR tests record as positive those who had the virus in the past but still have some trace in their bodies, even though they are not now infected, as such, and are not contagious. If this is correct (it may not be), are these positives really positives in the useful sense of the word?Andy_Cooke said:So:
981 deaths announced.
Essex calls in the military for desperate help with the ill.
Professor Whitty is seen working over Christmas in a ward to help with the extreme overstretch.
Meanwhile, Toby Young (the one who keeps calling Professor Whitty “Witless” for his strange insistence that there is, in fact, a problem) keeps penning pieces on how the NHS are doing fine, less stretched than in other years, and they’re just making it up when they say that there’s a problem from these false positives.
At what point do his readers finally conclude that he’s delusional or crooked?
There's only so much hatred One person can take.
As I have said I'm not 100% with you but the thrust of what you post rings absolutely true.
0 -
Tier 3 still good (fingers xed).TOPPING said:
Should have gone to the effing children's meet today after all.IshmaelZ said:
You must not confuse hatred with howls of derisive laughter.contrarian said:
Over to you Stocky. I have steered clear of the false positive PCR test issue.Stocky said:
On the false positive point, Andy, I understand that PCR tests record as positive those who had the virus in the past but still have some trace in their bodies, even though they are not now infected, as such, and are not contagious. If this is correct (it may not be), are these positives really positives in the useful sense of the word?Andy_Cooke said:So:
981 deaths announced.
Essex calls in the military for desperate help with the ill.
Professor Whitty is seen working over Christmas in a ward to help with the extreme overstretch.
Meanwhile, Toby Young (the one who keeps calling Professor Whitty “Witless” for his strange insistence that there is, in fact, a problem) keeps penning pieces on how the NHS are doing fine, less stretched than in other years, and they’re just making it up when they say that there’s a problem from these false positives.
At what point do his readers finally conclude that he’s delusional or crooked?
There's only so much hatred One person can take.0 -
Ha - my post was a more subtle one that yours. I`m not saying for a moment that the PCR test are wrong due to an error with the tests as some skeptics are (maybe not you). Anyway, Andy has answered my point well (sorry).contrarian said:
Over to you Stocky. I have steered clear of the false positive PCR test issue.Stocky said:
On the false positive point, Andy, I understand that PCR tests record as positive those who had the virus in the past but still have some trace in their bodies, even though they are not now infected, as such, and are not contagious. If this is correct (it may not be), are these positives really positives in the useful sense of the word?Andy_Cooke said:So:
981 deaths announced.
Essex calls in the military for desperate help with the ill.
Professor Whitty is seen working over Christmas in a ward to help with the extreme overstretch.
Meanwhile, Toby Young (the one who keeps calling Professor Whitty “Witless” for his strange insistence that there is, in fact, a problem) keeps penning pieces on how the NHS are doing fine, less stretched than in other years, and they’re just making it up when they say that there’s a problem from these false positives.
At what point do his readers finally conclude that he’s delusional or crooked?
There's only so much hatred One person can take.0 -
I think implying Germans are angry about Israel when it's in fact their own government that they're pissed off at doesn't look that great either.felix said:
Not sure that Germans being angry about Israel is the greatest of optics.CarlottaVance said:0 -
Case summary
Yes, Weekend Effect
Today
Yesterday
0 -
I haven't followed in detail recently as its xmas but I strongly suspect that Toby's ICU figures and his stuff on beds doesn't take account of lack of staff to handle the people in the beds.Floater said:
I should ignore the reports on the ground?contrarian said:
His detractors only have to counter his figures with better ones on ICU occupancy to destroy his argument.Andy_Cooke said:So:
981 deaths announced.
Essex calls in the military for desperate help with the ill.
Professor Whitty is seen working over Christmas in a ward to help with the extreme overstretch.
Meanwhile, Toby Young (the one who keeps calling Professor Whitty “Witless” for his strange insistence that there is, in fact, a problem) keeps penning pieces on how the NHS are doing fine, less stretched than in other years, and they’re just making it up when they say that there’s a problem from these false positives.
At what point do his readers finally conclude that he’s delusional or crooked?
They haven;t. as far as I can see. All they have is bluster and anecdote.
I wish somebody would. Genuinely.
The internal memo from Southend asking for staff to give up holidays and return to work
The Essex Resilience forum report which states
"all acute NHS Trusts reporting high levels of staff sickness"
"Essex's whole health system is extremely stretched"
On the 29th they reported they were very close to overload
But you think everything is ok?
Delusional and dangerous
Lockdownsceptics does have some interesting links even if you don't buy everything he tweets.
0 -
Lucky you. Enjoy.IshmaelZ said:
Tier 3 still good (fingers xed).TOPPING said:
Should have gone to the effing children's meet today after all.IshmaelZ said:
You must not confuse hatred with howls of derisive laughter.contrarian said:
Over to you Stocky. I have steered clear of the false positive PCR test issue.Stocky said:
On the false positive point, Andy, I understand that PCR tests record as positive those who had the virus in the past but still have some trace in their bodies, even though they are not now infected, as such, and are not contagious. If this is correct (it may not be), are these positives really positives in the useful sense of the word?Andy_Cooke said:So:
981 deaths announced.
Essex calls in the military for desperate help with the ill.
Professor Whitty is seen working over Christmas in a ward to help with the extreme overstretch.
Meanwhile, Toby Young (the one who keeps calling Professor Whitty “Witless” for his strange insistence that there is, in fact, a problem) keeps penning pieces on how the NHS are doing fine, less stretched than in other years, and they’re just making it up when they say that there’s a problem from these false positives.
At what point do his readers finally conclude that he’s delusional or crooked?
There's only so much hatred One person can take.0 -
Absolutely and the sooner the better with Williamson top to goSouthamObserver said:Now the Brexit deal is confirmed, there is no possible justification for Johnson to persevere with his spectacularly useless, nodding dog, cabinet. Even among the current massed ranks of dull, dim-witted, disingenuous Tory MPs, there must be better than the current crop of ministers.
I could not listen to him, both his delivery and voice are pathetic and his dealings with schools off the scale of pathetic3 -
The question is should the govt have taken the intervening 10 months since March to increase NHS capacity and personnel? And did they?rottenborough said:
I haven't followed in detail recently as its xmas but I strongly suspect that Toby's ICU figures and his stuff on beds doesn't take account of lack of staff to handle the people in the beds.Floater said:
I should ignore the reports on the ground?contrarian said:
His detractors only have to counter his figures with better ones on ICU occupancy to destroy his argument.Andy_Cooke said:So:
981 deaths announced.
Essex calls in the military for desperate help with the ill.
Professor Whitty is seen working over Christmas in a ward to help with the extreme overstretch.
Meanwhile, Toby Young (the one who keeps calling Professor Whitty “Witless” for his strange insistence that there is, in fact, a problem) keeps penning pieces on how the NHS are doing fine, less stretched than in other years, and they’re just making it up when they say that there’s a problem from these false positives.
At what point do his readers finally conclude that he’s delusional or crooked?
They haven;t. as far as I can see. All they have is bluster and anecdote.
I wish somebody would. Genuinely.
The internal memo from Southend asking for staff to give up holidays and return to work
The Essex Resilience forum report which states
"all acute NHS Trusts reporting high levels of staff sickness"
"Essex's whole health system is extremely stretched"
On the 29th they reported they were very close to overload
But you think everything is ok?
Delusional and dangerous
Lockdownsceptics does have some interesting links even if you don't buy everything he tweets.
(Ans: yes and no)0 -
I fear Israel rolling out the vaccine quickly will have certain people thinking.........0
-
UK deaths
0 -
1
-
Hope this helps (although I, for some reason, have a strange feeling it will not):contrarian said:
His detractors only have to counter his figures with better ones on ICU occupancy to destroy his argument.Andy_Cooke said:So:
981 deaths announced.
Essex calls in the military for desperate help with the ill.
Professor Whitty is seen working over Christmas in a ward to help with the extreme overstretch.
Meanwhile, Toby Young (the one who keeps calling Professor Whitty “Witless” for his strange insistence that there is, in fact, a problem) keeps penning pieces on how the NHS are doing fine, less stretched than in other years, and they’re just making it up when they say that there’s a problem from these false positives.
At what point do his readers finally conclude that he’s delusional or crooked?
They haven;t. as far as I can see. All they have is bluster and anecdote.
I wish somebody would. Genuinely.
Source: ICNARC here https://www.icnarc.org/Our-Audit/Audits/Cmp/Reports
1 -
True - everyone seems to be a bit pissed off at moment. We need a chillout vaccine pronto.Theuniondivvie said:
I think implying Germans are angry about Israel when it's in fact their own government that they're pissed off at doesn't look that great either.felix said:
Not sure that Germans being angry about Israel is the greatest of optics.CarlottaVance said:0 -
Strangely of the two Grammar schools in Grantham my son's, Kings, has an Inset day on Monday whilst the Girl's school KGGS had the Inset day on the last Friday before Christmas and was due to be going back as normal on Monday.ydoethur said:
I have never worked in a school - and I've worked in five - that did not have INSET on the first Monday of January. That doesn't mean there aren't any, but it's unusual in my experience. He is sending out confused messages for no reason.felix said:
Only if you think 'most' means 'all'. I don't like the man but the shriller you get the less effective you are.ydoethur said:
I take it he does know most schools will have INSET on Monday?Big_G_NorthWales said:In England primary schools to open on the 4th January
He should say, 'next week.'
And he is waffling like you can't believe it right now.0 -
Lovely area - and Barter books too!!!!!TheScreamingEagles said:
A fantastic award winning hotel.Theuniondivvie said:
You'd only be caught with your hand in it (whatever 'it' might be).TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm due to stay at The Cookie Jar in February.Gallowgate said:In other news, I'm off to Alnwick Castle Gardens tonight to see their light show. The only thing worth looking forward to for another 6 months probably.
Can't see that happening.
https://www.cookiejaralnwick.com/1 -
Not all brexiteers were happy with the deal....
https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1344280898112544771?s=192 -
-
I would disagree with you both about roll put and prioritisation. Both have been very good - unusually for this Government. I can't comment on ignoring pharma advice because I have not seen any news one way or another on that. My uninformed view from outside is that the Government are - so far - having a good roll out of vaccination.MaxPB said:
Yes, they're wrong. They've made a series of bad decisions since the procurement taskforce was disbanded. Everything we've done since building the world's best portfolio has been a disaster. Roll out, prioritisation and now ignoring pharma advice on dosing. All of these should be done better and the people in charge are clueless.CarlottaVance said:
You mean the JVIC, they're the ones recommending moving to "up to 12 weeks".TheScreamingEagles said:
FFS.FrancisUrquhart said:Pfizer warns there is NO proof its Covid jab works when doses are taken 12 weeks apart as UK regulator scraps 21-day rule in desperate attempt to get millions more vaccinated
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9099049/Questions-Britains-decision-drop-two-dose-vaccine-regimen.html
This government really has screwed the pooch.
I retract all the nice comments I said about the government's approach on vaccines.
Are you saying the government should ignore their advice?0 -
-
UK positivity
0 -
That's the next iteration, I think. Not too long off.londonpubman said:Useless by Williamson. We need to keep the schools closed until end Jan at the earliest. Certainly the secondary schools.
0 -
All a bit too flash to make the blows really count.CarlottaVance said:Gove earlier today:
https://twitter.com/ellievarley13/status/1344298823682822148?s=20
I wonder where Blackford gets his suits - it's just shy of ridiculous. The poor tailor doesn't have a customer that wears it well.0 -
Oh yes. A place of pilgrimage for any book lover.Floater said:
Lovely area - and Barter books too!!!!!TheScreamingEagles said:
A fantastic award winning hotel.Theuniondivvie said:
You'd only be caught with your hand in it (whatever 'it' might be).TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm due to stay at The Cookie Jar in February.Gallowgate said:In other news, I'm off to Alnwick Castle Gardens tonight to see their light show. The only thing worth looking forward to for another 6 months probably.
Can't see that happening.
https://www.cookiejaralnwick.com/0 -
UK hospitals
0 -
But Michael Gove...Scott_xP said:0 -
You really, really do need to read up on SNP policy - which has always been unhappy with the CFP and sought to renegotiate it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Why are you upset that Norway may be concerned the UK has a good dealTheuniondivvie said:
Isn't it the Euoskeptic Center Party that's flying that kite?Big_G_NorthWales said:
According to Norway the UK has a better deal than their EEA one and are seeking to open negotiations with the the EU to improve their arrangements in line with the UK- EU dealScott_xP said:
In other news I fear I have to enlighten you regarding Farage and his attitude to the EU.
We haven't heard any updates from you on the attitude of your fishing relatives from NE Scotland for a while. It would be great to get an on-the-ground report on reactions to BJ's great deal.
As for Farage I have comprehensively condemned him in my posts over years
It is a far better deal than the SNP plunging them back into the CFP and not to mention the 100 million support from HMG0 -
981st
Snot looking good izit?0 -
It's a brilliant place, is one of the many reasons I keep on going back.Floater said:
Lovely area - and Barter books too!!!!!TheScreamingEagles said:
A fantastic award winning hotel.Theuniondivvie said:
You'd only be caught with your hand in it (whatever 'it' might be).TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm due to stay at The Cookie Jar in February.Gallowgate said:In other news, I'm off to Alnwick Castle Gardens tonight to see their light show. The only thing worth looking forward to for another 6 months probably.
Can't see that happening.
https://www.cookiejaralnwick.com/1 -
"Germany recorded more than 1,000 coronavirus-related deaths in one day for the first time on Wednesday, days after it started vaccinating people and as an extension of a lockdown looms.
The number of confirmed coronavirus cases in the country rose by 22,459 to 1,687,185, data from the Robert Koch Institute (RKI) for infectious diseases showed.
The reported death toll increased by 1,129 to 32,107."
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/dec/30/coronavirus-live-news-uk-approves-oxford-astrazeneca-vaccine-updates0 -
UK R
From case data
From hospitalisation data
0 -
That's so, unfortunately it ain't coming any time soon.felix said:
True - everyone seems to be a bit pissed off at moment. We need a chillout vaccine pronto.Theuniondivvie said:
I think implying Germans are angry about Israel when it's in fact their own government that they're pissed off at doesn't look that great either.felix said:
Not sure that Germans being angry about Israel is the greatest of optics.CarlottaVance said:0 -
England case age breakdown
England age admissions breakdown
0 -
I suspect that a decent-sized chunk of Tory MPs are struggling to accept the enhanced lockdowns and closing schools goes over a red line for them.kinabalu said:
That's the next iteration, I think. Not too long off.londonpubman said:Useless by Williamson. We need to keep the schools closed until end Jan at the earliest. Certainly the secondary schools.
0 -
Announced next week when the daily case numbers go past 70,000!kinabalu said:
That's the next iteration, I think. Not too long off.londonpubman said:Useless by Williamson. We need to keep the schools closed until end Jan at the earliest. Certainly the secondary schools.
0
