Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Options

The Oxford/AZ vaccine gets approved – now ministers needs to ensure that it gets out quickly and in

1910121415

Comments

  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,209
    Next on the order paper: voting to confirm the Earth is flat....except Scotland, obviously. That has Ben Nevis.
  • Options
    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    I heard correctly - from the Independent

    "Essex is requesting military assistance to help increase hospital capacity and help with the vaccine rollout and testing in schools, Tory MP Sir Bernard Jenkin has said.

    The MP for Harwich and North Essex told the Commons: "I can confirm to (Matt Hancock) that Essex has declared a major incident and can I also inform him that at this very moment they are submitting a request for military assistance to the civil authority, a MACA request to assist with the construction of community hospitals, additional hospital capacity and supported by the armed forces and party staffed by the armed forces."
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,709
    dixiedean said:

    Floater said:

    Did I hear correctly, Essex calling for military hep for hospitals?

    Standby Commandante @HYUFD.
    Look Sharp!
    MOOOOVE IT!
    Sir, I protest.

    Should be 'look, Sharpe' if we're talking about the South Essex.
  • Options
    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    How many AZ vaccines by February?

    530,000 for first week in January and scaling up after so over 2 million by the beginning of February
    Was it not basically like two days ago all the newspapers were talking about the end of February being the start of easing? Bollocks now with those numbers, surely even the Easter timetable is already slipping.
    Its going to be summer at best...given limitations on supply, massive undertaking on rollout and how widespread / infectious cockney covid is.
    If R stays about 1 despite the lockdown then it will go through the population faster than we can vaccinate.
    In 99.7% of cases, so what?
    How many people require hospitalisation? How many more cases would be fatal if they were unable to get treatment?
    As usual Contrarian talks bollocks

    My son has had a hospital appointment cancelled for next week due to the pressures

    And it was for something a bit more important than an ingrowing toenail........
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,709
    Floater said:

    I heard correctly - from the Independent

    "Essex is requesting military assistance to help increase hospital capacity and help with the vaccine rollout and testing in schools, Tory MP Sir Bernard Jenkin has said.

    The MP for Harwich and North Essex told the Commons: "I can confirm to (Matt Hancock) that Essex has declared a major incident and can I also inform him that at this very moment they are submitting a request for military assistance to the civil authority, a MACA request to assist with the construction of community hospitals, additional hospital capacity and supported by the armed forces and party staffed by the armed forces."

    We could dry dock every ship, ground every plane, put every last one of our Armed Forces into testing in schools, and we still wouldn't have enough people to do what the government's planning.

    It's a complete gimmick, at vast expense.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,331
    Belgium has had a strict lockdown for a long time and is still almost at the top of the list of countries worst affected by Covid-19.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,709
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,511
    edited December 2020
    Scott_xP said:
    According to Norway the UK has a better deal than their EEA one and are seeking to open negotiations with the the EU to improve their arrangements in line with the UK- EU deal
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,209
    In a year of great unpredictability, this stat still floors me:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55483432
  • Options
    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    Scott_xP said:
    According to Norway the UK has a better deal than their EEA one and are seeking to open negotiations with the the EU to improve their arrangements in line with the UK- EU deal
    Scott never mentioned that - can't imagine why......
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,331
    "UK having its cake and eating it - Johnson"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-55479851
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,709
    edited December 2020

    Scott_xP said:
    According to Norway the UK has a better deal than their EEA one and are seeking to open negotiations with the the EU to improve their arrangements in line with the UK- EU deal
    AIUI, only one of their parties thinks that, and at that the one that has always been most Eurosceptic.

    Admittedly, also the one currently leading in the polls.
  • Options
    ydoethur said:
    Perhaps Dido Harding was in involved?
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,392

    Scott_xP said:
    According to Norway the UK has a better deal than their EEA one and are seeking to open negotiations with the the EU to improve their arrangements in line with the UK- EU deal
    It's not "according to Norway", but "according to a Eurosceptic opposition party looking to score points against the Norwegian government".
  • Options
    Boris live in no 10 signing the treaty
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,442
    edited December 2020
    I think holding the 30 million claim against AZN might be a bit unfair, but only 2 months ago they still promised 4 million by now....i mean by that stage you should really have a handle on how to produce at scale and what rate you can do it.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,709

    In a year of great unpredictability, this stat still floors me:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55483432

    Contraction in supply, meaning people were less likely to haggle?

    Might lead to a fall as we come out of restrictions.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,209
    Does that mean Scotland now has it own No Deal with the EU? *innocent face*
  • Options

    Scott_xP said:
    According to Norway the UK has a better deal than their EEA one and are seeking to open negotiations with the the EU to improve their arrangements in line with the UK- EU deal
    It's not "according to Norway", but "according to a Eurosceptic opposition party looking to score points against the Norwegian government".
    And it is true
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,709
    There's no surprise at the DfE. They're boringly predictable at always organising a complete clusterfuck.
  • Options
    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:
    According to Norway the UK has a better deal than their EEA one and are seeking to open negotiations with the the EU to improve their arrangements in line with the UK- EU deal
    AIUI, only one of their parties thinks that, and at that the one that has always been most Eurosceptic.

    Admittedly, also the one currently leading in the polls.
    More than 1 I think

    "Arnstad is not the only politician complaining, the leader of the Norwegian Socialist Party’s EEA committee, Heming Olaussen, also believes that the British agreement with the EU is better than the EEA, “because the British escape the European Court of Justice. Then they are no longer subject to EU supremacy and must not accept any EU legislation in the future as we must. This agreement is qualitatively different and safeguards national sovereignty in a better way than the EEA does for us”.
  • Options

    Mortimer said:

    What the bloody hell.have they been up to for months? I thought the big advantage of AZN / OXford vaccine was well established how to make it at scale and they would be making millions of doses well in advance of any potential approval.

    Told you not to place your faith in the University of Oxford.
    Where is the Cambridge vaccine?
    We're doing the proper work on sequencing/analysing the plague.
    "We" - I didn't realize you were working in the labs there. Thank you for your service to the country.

    --AS
  • Options
    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    ydoethur said:

    There's no surprise at the DfE. They're boringly predictable at always organising a complete clusterfuck.
    My dealings with the education establishment over the years make me believe that the needs of children are not exactly at the top of their priorities
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,200

    Barnesian said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    Do we have any idea whether x% effectiveness means

    (1) "x% of the population become immune with this vaccine, and can meet infected people all the time and never catch it" or
    (2) "everyone has a reduction of x% in the probability of catching the infection on any one occasion exposed to it"?

    If (1) were the case, then if x is high (e.g. Pfizer's 95%), we might start behaving normally. In particular, NHS staff who meet infected people all the time might be well-prrotected. If (2) is the case then we still need to socially distance etc. until the spread drops so far that you rarely meet an infected person (because you'll still catch it if you keep meeting them, just "100-x%" of time you would have caught it before).

    Unfortunately, I'm not sure we can answer this?

    Very interesting question. Hope others more viro'd up answer but here is my take -

    A vax effectiveness of 90% means that if I take it my risk of becoming infected is 10% of what it would be if I did not take it.

    So, for example, if my condition and lifestyle means I have a 50% chance of getting Covid in the next 3 months, if I take the vaccine, all else being equal, my chance of getting it drops to 5%.

    And then hopefully the vax does 2 other things for me. It reduces the chance of me getting VERY sick if I do get it. And it stops me somehow spreading it despite not having it.
    From the national as opposed to the personal interest it is really the first of these "other things" that is the key. If you are unlucky enough to catch the virus anyway despite your improved chances you are unlikely to need hospital treatment.
    Yes, that looms large in my thinking. I'd accept a higher chance of catching it in exchange for a lower chance of getting seriously ill. I'd accept being 21 again, as it were.
    I think that is a good way to look at it and a good reason for our current ranking of priorities. This disease is not equal opportunity. The vast majority of 21 year olds who get it will not be ill at all. Many may not even know that they've had it. We all want to get to that stage as fast as possible but especially those who are likely to suffer serious complications as a result.
    The point I do not fully get is this one about "does the vaccine stop you spreading it?" This is apparently not proven by the trials but I don't understand why not. We know it reduces the chance of being infected. So the inference here is it might be possible to pass on the virus without being infected yourself? Is that it?
    Most of the trials didn't test whether people were infected, only if they were showing symptoms.

    So it's possible that the vaccines prevented the symptoms, but not the infection - so a vaccinated person could still spread the virus asymptomatically to a person who hasn't received the vaccine.
    Which is another reason the best thing for the NHS is to protect the 1.6 million first before doctors and nurses.

    Preventing the symptoms and thus hospitalisations will go a long way to reducing the strain on the NHS. But if a doctor or nurse gets the vaccine, becomes an asymptomatic carrier and then tests positive they'll still have to be removed from the front line even though they're vaccinated.
    Maybe. When things were (maybe still are?) very bad in Liege, in Belgium, in the autumn they were asking asymptomatic staff to work in the Covid wards.

    If the system is on the verge of collapse it's the sort of decision that becomes necessary.

    I don't think the detail of the vaccine rollout will end up making the crucial difference. The critical factor is: Can restrictions in lockdown three reduce the infection rate?

    If they can't then the vaccination programme isn't going to have an effect fast enough to prevent collapse of the hospital system.

    We'll find out whether the infection rate is coming under control during next week - when they'll only just be starting to use the AZN vaccine.
    Something else to think of.

    We are well north of 800,000 first doses.

    the policy so far has been to aim for

    75% over 80s
    20% care home staff
    5% NHS staff

    The earliest numbers suggest that about 70% over 80s is being achieved, with the balance being taken up by NHS staff.

    if 5% - 40,000 NHS staff
    if 10% - 80,000 NHS staff

    There are, apparently 295,620 nurses in the NHS and 121,256 doctors -
    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/nhs-nurse-numbers-continue-rising-with-13840-more-than-last-year

    Assuming these are all frontline staff (not actually the case) - somewhere between 10 and 20% of the NHS medical workforce have received their first jab.

    As at 20 December, in England, 366,715 over-80s and 154,879 16-79 year olds had had their first jabs. Unless there is a priority group I am unaware of, the latter figure should be predominantly health and care home workers https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-vaccinations/
    I've just had my jab at my local surgery. I'm in the 75-79 age cohort. My surgery intends to do 3,000 vaccinations of this cohort today. Their organisation is impressive. It includes sitting with a cup of tea for 15 minutes after the jab to make sure you don't keel over. I didn't keel over.
    You always come across as a much younger poster than that. (As in energy, rather than immaturity, I might add!)
    And younger posters I generally add 10-15 years to until the truth is discovered.
  • Options
    Pfizer warns there is NO proof its Covid jab works when doses are taken 12 weeks apart as UK regulator scraps 21-day rule in desperate attempt to get millions more vaccinated

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9099049/Questions-Britains-decision-drop-two-dose-vaccine-regimen.html
  • Options

    How many AZ vaccines by February?

    530,000 for first week in January and scaling up after so over 2 million by the beginning of February
    Was it not basically like two days ago all the newspapers were talking about the end of February being the start of easing? Bollocks now with those numbers, surely even the Easter timetable is already slipping.
    Its going to be summer at best...given limitations on supply, massive undertaking on rollout and how widespread / infectious cockney covid is.
    If R stays about 1 despite the lockdown then it will go through the population faster than we can vaccinate.
    In 99.7% of cases, so what?
    Do you have any misleading statistics from Toby Young to share with us today?

    --AS
  • Options
    Daily deaths 981. We're in the shit, lads.
  • Options
    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    If Johnson is spinning like that, there must still be very, very significant unrest in the tory party, brexit or no brexit.

  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,209
    ydoethur said:

    If Margot Robbie walked into my bedroom and tore her clothes off, I would shag her brains out.

    There is a fairly significant 'if' in that, however.
    Surely, only "when"...?
  • Options
    981 deaths - that is terrible
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,208

    How many AZ vaccines by February?

    530,000 for first week in January and scaling up after so over 2 million by the beginning of February
    Was it not basically like two days ago all the newspapers were talking about the end of February being the start of easing? Bollocks now with those numbers, surely even the Easter timetable is already slipping.
    Its going to be summer at best...given limitations on supply, massive undertaking on rollout and how widespread / infectious cockney covid is.
    If R stays about 1 despite the lockdown then it will go through the population faster than we can vaccinate.
    In 99.7% of cases, so what?
    Do you have any misleading statistics from Toby Young to share with us today?

    --AS
    Or perhaps comments on the statistics of female politicians? (I hasten to add, from Mr Young, not Mr Contrarian himself.)
  • Options
    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Valencian Community. The president of the Illustrious Official College of Physicians of Valencia, Mercedes Hurtado, has stated that "in terms of health there should be a total confinement" in this community because, in her opinion, the situation of the coronavirus pandemic "cries out to heaven" and there will be "a authentic January cost "after the holidays and family gatherings, as he has assured in an interview in the Ser, collected by Europa Press a day after the Valencian Community has registered 3,590 new positives of coronavirus, the highest number of the pandemic, and 60 deaths, the second highest number of deaths.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,709
    Floater said:

    ydoethur said:

    There's no surprise at the DfE. They're boringly predictable at always organising a complete clusterfuck.
    My dealings with the education establishment over the years make me believe that the needs of children are not exactly at the top of their priorities
    You're ahead of me. Dealing with the DfE for 15 years I have come to the conclusion that the needs of children or indeed university students do not figure in their priorities in any way.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,200

    Daily deaths 981. We're in the shit, lads.

    Well yes, we are, but I recall someone (rcs I think) saying over a week ago that this Wednesday was likely to be a very very had one for deaths.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,392

    Scott_xP said:
    According to Norway the UK has a better deal than their EEA one and are seeking to open negotiations with the the EU to improve their arrangements in line with the UK- EU deal
    It's not "according to Norway", but "according to a Eurosceptic opposition party looking to score points against the Norwegian government".
    And it is true
    Norway has financial services passporting and participation in regulatory agencies like the EMA.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,982
    No wonder he's got his own photographer. He's looking worse by the day. At least included in the £100,000 is a decent retoucher.
  • Options

    Pfizer warns there is NO proof its Covid jab works when doses are taken 12 weeks apart as UK regulator scraps 21-day rule in desperate attempt to get millions more vaccinated

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9099049/Questions-Britains-decision-drop-two-dose-vaccine-regimen.html

    FFS.

    This government really has screwed the pooch.

    I retract all the nice comments I said about the government's approach on vaccines.
  • Options
    FishingFishing Posts: 4,568
    ydoethur said:

    Floater said:

    ydoethur said:

    There's no surprise at the DfE. They're boringly predictable at always organising a complete clusterfuck.
    My dealings with the education establishment over the years make me believe that the needs of children are not exactly at the top of their priorities
    You're ahead of me. Dealing with the DfE for 15 years I have come to the conclusion that the needs of children or indeed university students do not figure in their priorities in any way.
    Yes Minister said that the DES (as it was) never mentions children - their important interest group is the teachers' unions.
  • Options

    Scott_xP said:
    According to Norway the UK has a better deal than their EEA one and are seeking to open negotiations with the the EU to improve their arrangements in line with the UK- EU deal
    It's not "according to Norway", but "according to a Eurosceptic opposition party looking to score points against the Norwegian government".
    And it is true
    Norway has financial services passporting and participation in regulatory agencies like the EMA.
    And there is disquiet in Norway whether you like it or not
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,200

    How can you promise 4 million doses only 8 weeks ago (for now) and only make 500k....i have had builders with more accurate estimates of deliverables than that!

    With as estimate like that, they should take over HS2, all defence procurement and government IT contracts, and we'd hardly notice the difference except for a slight improvement.
  • Options
    Cases not quite as horrendous as yesterday....
  • Options

    If Johnson is spinning like that, there must still be very, very significant unrest in the tory party, brexit or no brexit.

    Not sure I've ever seen the word 'if' do so much heavy lifting as in that tweet.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    DavidL said:

    Stocky said:

    DavidL said:

    Stocky said:

    A cheeky question for the lawyers out there.

    I may have a chance to buy 1/3rd acre of land behind by garden. I currently rent it from the landowner. How can a fair price be established? Would it be a multiple of the rent or is there a per acre guide for "garden land". There is no development potential and the land is on a slope and is no use to a farmer or as a horse paddock.

    Alternatively, would the adjusted garden size - which would be increasing sixfold I guess - put value on my house? And if so would the current landowner argue for the extra value?

    Finally, would there be a separate land ownership for the land in isolation with the land registry, or would the boundaries of my current plot be expanded to envelope the new land? Are there any stamp duty implications either way?

    Any help much appreciated.

    These are mainly questions for a surveyor rather than a lawyer. When we bought our current house there was a mistake in the title in that the developer had whipped a bit of land belonging to the school and incorporated it into our gardens. I consulted a surveyor friend who told me that the loss of the garden ground would not affect their calculation of the value of the house on the basis of the RICS tables but he acknowledged that it would make the house harder to sell.

    In your case I would expect the reverse. It won't significantly increase the value of the house but it will make the house more attractive to buyers who want a big garden.

    So far as value is concerned a multiple of the rent seems a sensible way to measure it because that is what the farmer is giving up in exchange for the title. Of course there is no guarantee for him that the next owner of your house would want the land so some discount on the multiplier would be appropriate. I would suggest that maybe 5x, possibly with a contribution to legal costs, would seem a reasonable ball park.

    I am not an English lawyer. In Scotland you would get a separate land certificate for the new bit of land and the 2 would be incorporated when you sold the lot. Either way I can't see that affecting the SDLT.
    Thanks. You say that it would make my house more attractive to buyers who want a big garden. But could the converse also be true? I`m not sure which would weigh heavier. The last thing I want to do is to buy the land and it decrease the value of my house.

    Regarding the multiplier - the local owner is a large estate, not a farmer. They play the long game with passing the estate through the generations in the uppermost of their minds. There is no way that 5x the rent would cut it. I`d be surprised if they went under 25 x.
    I don't think that it would affect the valuation given to the house by surveyors (and hence mortgage lenders) much either way but yes, speaking personally a big garden to look after is not a selling point.

    Even at current interest rates 25x seems completely excessive. As I say they have the risk that you or any subsequent owner of your house would not want the land and they are stuck with a bit of ground that you say is of no use to them. They therefore do not have the equivalent of a gilt with a guaranteed return. That is why I would have thought a discount was applicable. As @Gallowgate said you could seek advice from a surveyor but I think that the real question is how much it is worth to you. If its less than the estate wants then you may not have a deal.
    The land isn’t worth a huge amount (if the farmer could have done something productive with it then he wouldn’t have rented it to you).

    Be careful, though, about incorporating into the garden as a buyer may be worried about the maintenance effort. It may be better to include some if you want but basically keep as a paddock you own.

    There are probably no other buyers (depending on the access to the land that doesn’tt go via your house or the neighbours farm).

    3-4x rent plus all professional costs seems reasonable to me. Ultimately it’s worth what you’re willing to pay - but no more than your rent costs for the remaining term of the lease
  • Options
    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    ydoethur said:

    Floater said:

    ydoethur said:

    There's no surprise at the DfE. They're boringly predictable at always organising a complete clusterfuck.
    My dealings with the education establishment over the years make me believe that the needs of children are not exactly at the top of their priorities
    You're ahead of me. Dealing with the DfE for 15 years I have come to the conclusion that the needs of children or indeed university students do not figure in their priorities in any way.
    I was being kind - They tried to break my wife and I emotionally and financially rather than do the right thing.

    Luckily we were mentally strong enough and financially robust enough to fight them - but we needed the help of Sir Bob Russell (ex mp for Colchester) and a judge who basically told Essex to stop being dick heads to get him the hep he needed.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,709
    Fishing said:

    ydoethur said:

    Floater said:

    ydoethur said:

    There's no surprise at the DfE. They're boringly predictable at always organising a complete clusterfuck.
    My dealings with the education establishment over the years make me believe that the needs of children are not exactly at the top of their priorities
    You're ahead of me. Dealing with the DfE for 15 years I have come to the conclusion that the needs of children or indeed university students do not figure in their priorities in any way.
    Yes Minister said that the DES (as it was) never mentions children - their important interest group is the teachers' unions.
    Well, actually that isn't true either. In fact, the DfE spends most of its time slagging off the teachers' unions.

    Their one constant point of interest is trying to resurrect their own careers. Doesn't matter what damage they do along the way.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,200

    Would have not been just easier to have another national lockdown, as essentially everybody is Tier 3/4.

    Yes, the differences between them hardly matters much. I figured they'd go one last national lockdown before 2020 ends, but looks like they really really did not want to announce a third national one.
  • Options
    Scott_xP said:
    "refuses to acknowledge there will be new barriers..." Just more lying. If he would just say "yes there will be some barriers that increase costs for business, but we judged that it was worth it so we could have more control over our country" then I would have a lot more respect for him and where he is taking us. It's just the bare faced dishonesty that gets me.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,200

    Which tier allows rimming?

    All of them.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,209
    Aye, but the valiant 57.2% of Scottish Covid is holding the line against this bastard sassenach invader.....
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,982
    kle4 said:

    Daily deaths 981. We're in the shit, lads.

    Well yes, we are, but I recall someone (rcs I think) saying over a week ago that this Wednesday was likely to be a very very had one for deaths.
    Is he an astronomer?
  • Options

    Pfizer warns there is NO proof its Covid jab works when doses are taken 12 weeks apart as UK regulator scraps 21-day rule in desperate attempt to get millions more vaccinated

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9099049/Questions-Britains-decision-drop-two-dose-vaccine-regimen.html

    FFS.

    This government really has screwed the pooch.

    I retract all the nice comments I said about the government's approach on vaccines.
    You mean the JVIC, they're the ones recommending moving to "up to 12 weeks".

    Are you saying the government should ignore their advice?
  • Options
    Pike on at 16.15
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,710

    Pfizer warns there is NO proof its Covid jab works when doses are taken 12 weeks apart as UK regulator scraps 21-day rule in desperate attempt to get millions more vaccinated

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9099049/Questions-Britains-decision-drop-two-dose-vaccine-regimen.html

    Do we have piles of Pfizer going to waste for want of patients, or are thousands of NHS workers valiantly soldiering on whilst the crumblies have sucked up all the supplies? It can't be both. We should only alter the regime once all NHS workers (if they can't show up to NHS appointments at the right time, there's something seriously wrong) have got it.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,200

    Pfizer warns there is NO proof its Covid jab works when doses are taken 12 weeks apart as UK regulator scraps 21-day rule in desperate attempt to get millions more vaccinated

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9099049/Questions-Britains-decision-drop-two-dose-vaccine-regimen.html

    FFS.

    This government really has screwed the pooch.

    I retract all the nice comments I said about the government's approach on vaccines.
    One error does not undo all good work. However although various people had urged them to take such action with the Pfizer it does not seem defendable if the company itself is saying there is not proof that will work.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,829
    50023. Howe did we reach such a figure? Time to Hoover up the virus.

    (Again, apologies to non-rail cranks who won't get the joke)
  • Options
    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Carnyx said:

    How many AZ vaccines by February?

    530,000 for first week in January and scaling up after so over 2 million by the beginning of February
    Was it not basically like two days ago all the newspapers were talking about the end of February being the start of easing? Bollocks now with those numbers, surely even the Easter timetable is already slipping.
    Its going to be summer at best...given limitations on supply, massive undertaking on rollout and how widespread / infectious cockney covid is.
    If R stays about 1 despite the lockdown then it will go through the population faster than we can vaccinate.
    In 99.7% of cases, so what?
    Do you have any misleading statistics from Toby Young to share with us today?

    --AS
    Or perhaps comments on the statistics of female politicians? (I hasten to add, from Mr Young, not Mr Contrarian himself.)
    I am no particular fan of Young and wanted someone to prove him wrong. Nobody did, really. I guess inconvenient truths are always 'misleading' though, aren't they.
  • Options

    Scott_xP said:
    According to Norway the UK has a better deal than their EEA one and are seeking to open negotiations with the the EU to improve their arrangements in line with the UK- EU deal
    Isn't it the Euoskeptic Center Party that's flying that kite?
    In other news I fear I have to enlighten you regarding Farage and his attitude to the EU.

    We haven't heard any updates from you on the attitude of your fishing relatives from NE Scotland for a while. It would be great to get an on-the-ground report on reactions to BJ's great deal.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,200
    Roger said:

    kle4 said:

    Daily deaths 981. We're in the shit, lads.

    Well yes, we are, but I recall someone (rcs I think) saying over a week ago that this Wednesday was likely to be a very very had one for deaths.
    Is he an astronomer?
    He is multi talented, so perhaps, but more likely it is 1 clear working day after the Christmas break, so seemes probable an already bad situation would look even worse on this day.
  • Options
    Frank Spencer rides again.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,709

    Frank Spencer rides again.

    This is a car crash, not a falling house.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,654
    Williamson explaining how circumstances have changed....
  • Options

    Scott_xP said:
    According to Norway the UK has a better deal than their EEA one and are seeking to open negotiations with the the EU to improve their arrangements in line with the UK- EU deal
    It's not "according to Norway", but "according to a Eurosceptic opposition party looking to score points against the Norwegian government".
    How does it go?

    Big_G never mentioned that - can't imagine why......
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,709
    He has just misled the house.

    He said schools were 'as covid secure as possible.'

    That is not true. In fact, it is absolutely untrue.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Carnyx said:

    How many AZ vaccines by February?

    530,000 for first week in January and scaling up after so over 2 million by the beginning of February
    Was it not basically like two days ago all the newspapers were talking about the end of February being the start of easing? Bollocks now with those numbers, surely even the Easter timetable is already slipping.
    Its going to be summer at best...given limitations on supply, massive undertaking on rollout and how widespread / infectious cockney covid is.
    If R stays about 1 despite the lockdown then it will go through the population faster than we can vaccinate.
    In 99.7% of cases, so what?
    Do you have any misleading statistics from Toby Young to share with us today?

    --AS
    Or perhaps comments on the statistics of female politicians? (I hasten to add, from Mr Young, not Mr Contrarian himself.)
    I am no particular fan of Young and wanted someone to prove him wrong. Nobody did, really. I guess inconvenient truths are always 'misleading' though, aren't they.
    Hahahahaha
  • Options

    Pfizer warns there is NO proof its Covid jab works when doses are taken 12 weeks apart as UK regulator scraps 21-day rule in desperate attempt to get millions more vaccinated

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9099049/Questions-Britains-decision-drop-two-dose-vaccine-regimen.html

    FFS.

    This government really has screwed the pooch.

    I retract all the nice comments I said about the government's approach on vaccines.
    You mean the JVIC, they're the ones recommending moving to "up to 12 weeks".

    Are you saying the government should ignore their advice?
    Well when Pfizerr 'warns there is NO proof its Covid jab works when doses are taken 12 weeks apart' I'm doubting JVIC.
  • Options
    contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Foxy said:

    How many AZ vaccines by February?

    530,000 for first week in January and scaling up after so over 2 million by the beginning of February
    Was it not basically like two days ago all the newspapers were talking about the end of February being the start of easing? Bollocks now with those numbers, surely even the Easter timetable is already slipping.
    Its going to be summer at best...given limitations on supply, massive undertaking on rollout and how widespread / infectious cockney covid is.
    If R stays about 1 despite the lockdown then it will go through the population faster than we can vaccinate.
    In 99.7% of cases, so what?
    Do you have any misleading statistics from Toby Young to share with us today?

    --AS
    This is my favourite:

    https://twitter.com/edmorrish/status/1343878018129948672?s=19
    That has to be one of the stupidest remarks made on the covid pandemic since its outbreak.

    Almost as stupid as '3 week lockdown to beef up capacity in the NHS'

    Which we now know was impossible
  • Options
    In England primary schools to open on the 4th January
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,709
    Citing Lamdhani again to say the virus isn't spread in schools.

    I said this was a dangerous study.
  • Options

    Pfizer warns there is NO proof its Covid jab works when doses are taken 12 weeks apart as UK regulator scraps 21-day rule in desperate attempt to get millions more vaccinated

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9099049/Questions-Britains-decision-drop-two-dose-vaccine-regimen.html

    Of course there isn't "proof" for something they haven't tested

    The JVIC have made a judgement on the risk (lower effectiveness) / reward (more people get some protection sooner) of what they're doing.

    Time will tell whether they're right, but I'm pretty sure they've had a stronger basis than "Tony Blair said so on the radio".
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,088

    Scott_xP said:
    "refuses to acknowledge there will be new barriers..." Just more lying. If he would just say "yes there will be some barriers that increase costs for business, but we judged that it was worth it so we could have more control over our country" then I would have a lot more respect for him and where he is taking us. It's just the bare faced dishonesty that gets me.
    Indeed. And the immature 'cakeism' doesn't do him any favours either. I'm tempted to say he should grow up but at the age of 56 it's unlikely now.

    To be clear the debate is whether we have a better arrangement with the EU than Norway. That is hardly having your cake and eating it.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,709

    In England primary schools to open on the 4th January

    I take it he does know most schools will have INSET on Monday?

    He should say, 'next week.'
  • Options
    Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,823
    So:

    981 deaths announced.
    Essex calls in the military for desperate help with the ill.
    Professor Whitty is seen working over Christmas in a ward to help with the extreme overstretch.

    Meanwhile, Toby Young (the one who keeps calling Professor Whitty “Witless” for his strange insistence that there is, in fact, a problem) keeps penning pieces on how the NHS are doing fine, less stretched than in other years, and they’re just making it up when they say that there’s a problem from these false positives.

    At what point do his readers finally conclude that he’s delusional or crooked?
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,117
    In other news, I'm off to Alnwick Castle Gardens tonight to see their light show. The only thing worth looking forward to for another 6 months probably.
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,870
    ydoethur said:

    Citing Lamdhani again to say the virus isn't spread in schools.

    I said this was a dangerous study.

    No delay it seems ydoethur. According to the terms of the bet I think I thus need to say what a wise and clever man you are :)
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,200

    So:

    981 deaths announced.
    Essex calls in the military for desperate help with the ill.
    Professor Whitty is seen working over Christmas in a ward to help with the extreme overstretch.

    Meanwhile, Toby Young (the one who keeps calling Professor Whitty “Witless” for his strange insistence that there is, in fact, a problem) keeps penning pieces on how the NHS are doing fine, less stretched than in other years, and they’re just making it up when they say that there’s a problem from these false positives.

    At what point do his readers finally conclude that he’s delusional or crooked?

    That depends what they read him for. If he's providing something they want, being wrong doesn't matter.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,709
    edited December 2020
    Again, he is talking complete bullshit. Unless he is giving a full month (edit - and he isn't) the mass testing regime is going to be completely inoperable, rather than merely totally useless.

    This government is genuinely evil.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,654
    edited December 2020
    Primaries to open 4 Jan except in a limited number of areas with sharply rising case numbers

    Secondary exam year pupils return on the 11th, non-exam years on 18th Jan

    Phased return for students through Jan
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,710
    In defence of Toby Young (not someone I know, or read anything by, or have any particular desire to defend), I was a bit puzzled by the furore over his 'faked' picture of an empty ICU ward I saw on here yesterday. I thought it was a pretty automatic assumption that he'd used a stock image of an empty ICU ward to illustrate his blog (PB style), as opposed to him actually claiming he'd gone undercover in the NHS and the image was some sort of scoop.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 19,022

    Pike on at 16.15

    Pike who?

    And who is the twerp this time around?
  • Options

    So:

    981 deaths announced.
    Essex calls in the military for desperate help with the ill.
    Professor Whitty is seen working over Christmas in a ward to help with the extreme overstretch.

    Meanwhile, Toby Young (the one who keeps calling Professor Whitty “Witless” for his strange insistence that there is, in fact, a problem) keeps penning pieces on how the NHS are doing fine, less stretched than in other years, and they’re just making it up when they say that there’s a problem from these false positives.

    At what point do his readers finally conclude that he’s delusional or crooked?

    I'm going for crooked given how he's stopped talking about Sweden.

    If he was delusional he'd still be banging on about following Sweden.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,709
    No mention of what's happening to next week's exams yet.

    He does know they're scheduled, doesn't he?
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,387
    Pretty amazing paper demonstrating the heritability of adaptive immunity.

    https://twitter.com/biorxivpreprint/status/1344003091616722972
  • Options

    Pike on at 16.15

    On a pike at 16.15 would be best for the country.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,709
    What is the point of delivering 50,000 devices to schools that don't have any pupils in?

    @Morris_Dancer I need that space cannon please. Deliver to Codsall.
  • Options

    Scott_xP said:
    According to Norway the UK has a better deal than their EEA one and are seeking to open negotiations with the the EU to improve their arrangements in line with the UK- EU deal
    Isn't it the Euoskeptic Center Party that's flying that kite?
    In other news I fear I have to enlighten you regarding Farage and his attitude to the EU.

    We haven't heard any updates from you on the attitude of your fishing relatives from NE Scotland for a while. It would be great to get an on-the-ground report on reactions to BJ's great deal.
    Why are you upset that Norway may be concerned the UK has a good deal

    As for Farage I have comprehensively condemned him in my posts over years

    It is a far better deal than the SNP plunging them back into the CFP and not to mention the 100 million support from HMG
  • Options
    StockyStocky Posts: 9,743

    How many AZ vaccines by February?

    530,000 for first week in January and scaling up after so over 2 million by the beginning of February
    Was it not basically like two days ago all the newspapers were talking about the end of February being the start of easing? Bollocks now with those numbers, surely even the Easter timetable is already slipping.
    Its going to be summer at best...given limitations on supply, massive undertaking on rollout and how widespread / infectious cockney covid is.
    By which time Autumn will be coming. New diseases, new variants, new lockdowns!

    We're not getting out. Ever.

    I have more sympathy with your concerns than many posters do. As I posted earlier, we are in such a risk-averse place that "getting out" seems inconceivable, and I am worried that even the vaccinations will not reverse the mind-set even when we get over 2/3rds vaccinated. The virus will still be here, and in other nations, and that fact will buoy demand for continuing restrictions, at least while Sunak`s financial support is still forthcoming.

    I think we only get out of this when ALL of these conditions are met: 1) Over 50s vaccinated, 2) Sunak`s support ends (or at least is reduces significantly) and 3) other European countries relax restrictions first.

    I hope I`m wrong.
  • Options
    londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,282
    edited December 2020
    Useless by Williamson. We need to keep the schools closed until end Jan at the earliest. Certainly the secondary schools.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,654
    Nigelb said:

    Pretty amazing paper demonstrating the heritability of adaptive immunity.

    https://twitter.com/biorxivpreprint/status/1344003091616722972

    And it goes wider than that, with the effects of experiences and training and environment able somehow to pass through heredity in, for example, dogs
This discussion has been closed.