What is a level playing field? – politicalbetting.com

Luckyguy1983 said:

williamglenn said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

For me, this is a genuinely exciting choice between two options that both have much to recommend them. With a deal, we put all the recent uncertainty to bed, people on both sides can take a much needed break from thinking about it - the psychological benefits of the smoothest possible transition are not inconsiderable. Without one, undoubtedly the more exciting option, we galvanise the country around the subject of its own future prosperity in a way not seen since the 1930's. We become an independent, prosperous trading nation. I understand that people aren't as excited as me, and that you don't really enjoy reading this, but it's honestly how I feel.

And to think some people say that Brexit is driven by WW2 nostalgia!

For me it's more harking back to the spacious days of Good Queen Bess.

Theuniondivvie said:

Pagan2 said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Pagan2 said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Pagan2 said:

MikeSmithson said:

Can someone explain what benefit we get for abandoning freedom of movement for Brits., much high insurance costs of visiting EU countries, higher food price in the UK among many negatives, UK motor manufacturing reduced etc

Simple we stop allowing in low value immigrants. I am entirely unphased by the number or nationality but its a simple fact that immigrants that are not net contributors to the treasury means that the public service pie has to stretch further without additional money. Explain to me why a minimum wage barista of any nationality is worth having as an immigrant

That algorithm that works out who are the high value immigrants is a good one.

'German couple behind vaccine are immigrant success story

Scientist couple born to immigrant parents from Turkey are now among Germany's richest 100 people'

https://tinyurl.com/y5tdtgk8

Total bollocks because one child of an immigrant out of a 10000 probably becomes a genius doesnt mean the other 9999 are offset. Genius's are rare. I guess your thoughts is we should let in all on the grounds that one or two might have a kid thats a genius

I hate to drag you away from your total bollocks level of discourse, but are immigrants net contributors to or net recipients from the UK economy?

There are both of course, I am happy to have immigrants that are net contributors, I am not happy to have those that are net recipients. Is that so hard to understand?

You know what the meaning of the word net when applied to immigrants is, right?

Pagan2 said:

Benpointer said:

Pagan2 said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Pagan2 said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Pagan2 said:

MikeSmithson said:

Can someone explain what benefit we get for abandoning freedom of movement for Brits., much high insurance costs of visiting EU countries, higher food price in the UK among many negatives, UK motor manufacturing reduced etc

Simple we stop allowing in low value immigrants. I am entirely unphased by the number or nationality but its a simple fact that immigrants that are not net contributors to the treasury means that the public service pie has to stretch further without additional money. Explain to me why a minimum wage barista of any nationality is worth having as an immigrant

That algorithm that works out who are the high value immigrants is a good one.

'German couple behind vaccine are immigrant success story

Scientist couple born to immigrant parents from Turkey are now among Germany's richest 100 people'

https://tinyurl.com/y5tdtgk8

Total bollocks because one child of an immigrant out of a 10000 probably becomes a genius doesnt mean the other 9999 are offset. Genius's are rare. I guess your thoughts is we should let in all on the grounds that one or two might have a kid thats a genius

I hate to drag you away from your total bollocks level of discourse, but are immigrants net contributors to or net recipients from the UK economy?

There are both of course, I am happy to have immigrants that are net contributors, I am not happy to have those that are net recipients. Is that so hard to understand?

How many immigrants do you think are net recipients? Any evidence?

Quite a lot. Most studies have put the total addition to gdp of immigration as about 2%, considering they are now numbered as a percentage as a lot more %age of the population (approx 5.5%) then then obviously there are many net recipients offsetting the net contributors

Beibheirli_C said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

williamglenn said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

For me, this is a genuinely exciting choice between two options that both have much to recommend them. With a deal, we put all the recent uncertainty to bed, people on both sides can take a much needed break from thinking about it - the psychological benefits of the smoothest possible transition are not inconsiderable. Without one, undoubtedly the more exciting option, we galvanise the country around the subject of its own future prosperity in a way not seen since the 1930's. We become an independent, prosperous trading nation. I understand that people aren't as excited as me, and that you don't really enjoy reading this, but it's honestly how I feel.

And to think some people say that Brexit is driven by WW2 nostalgia!

For me it's more harking back to the spacious days of Good Queen Bess.

Really? When the "UK" was just England & Wales? Scotland and Ireland were separate countries and Britain had few international friends and spent most of its time sending privateers to rob Spanish ships coming back from the New World?

This is your vision for Britain?

Pagan2 said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Pagan2 said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Pagan2 said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Pagan2 said:

MikeSmithson said:

Can someone explain what benefit we get for abandoning freedom of movement for Brits., much high insurance costs of visiting EU countries, higher food price in the UK among many negatives, UK motor manufacturing reduced etc

Simple we stop allowing in low value immigrants. I am entirely unphased by the number or nationality but its a simple fact that immigrants that are not net contributors to the treasury means that the public service pie has to stretch further without additional money. Explain to me why a minimum wage barista of any nationality is worth having as an immigrant

That algorithm that works out who are the high value immigrants is a good one.

'German couple behind vaccine are immigrant success story

Scientist couple born to immigrant parents from Turkey are now among Germany's richest 100 people'

https://tinyurl.com/y5tdtgk8

Total bollocks because one child of an immigrant out of a 10000 probably becomes a genius doesnt mean the other 9999 are offset. Genius's are rare. I guess your thoughts is we should let in all on the grounds that one or two might have a kid thats a genius

I hate to drag you away from your total bollocks level of discourse, but are immigrants net contributors to or net recipients from the UK economy?

There are both of course, I am happy to have immigrants that are net contributors, I am not happy to have those that are net recipients. Is that so hard to understand?

You know what the meaning of the word net when applied to immigrants is, right?

Well no idea what you think it means. I use it as in they put in more to the treasury than they take out.

Mexicanpete said:

Jonathan said:

Mexicanpete said:

Jonathan said:

Brexit is an emotional spasm inspired by a misreading of history and driven by massive lack of confidence.

It is the equivalent of man leaving a marriage for fear of commitment and a desire to revisit a rose tinted vision of bachelorhood that never was.

So Brexit really is personified by Boris Johnson.

The current debate is whether we’re heading for a dingy bedsit or a railway arch. The offer of a mates sofa disappeared with Trumps presidency.

I am going for the railway arch. After a few months enduring the cold and hunger, with nothing more than White Lightening cider for sustenance, I will want to repent my sins and rejoin society.

Beibheirli_C said:

Benpointer said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

williamglenn said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

For me, this is a genuinely exciting choice between two options that both have much to recommend them. With a deal, we put all the recent uncertainty to bed, people on both sides can take a much needed break from thinking about it - the psychological benefits of the smoothest possible transition are not inconsiderable. Without one, undoubtedly the more exciting option, we galvanise the country around the subject of its own future prosperity in a way not seen since the 1930's. We become an independent, prosperous trading nation. I understand that people aren't as excited as me, and that you don't really enjoy reading this, but it's honestly how I feel.

And to think some people say that Brexit is driven by WW2 nostalgia!

For me it's more harking back to the spacious days of Good Queen Bess.

Luvvin' the England, this sceptred isle vibe.

When the UK breaks up in a few years time, we should apply market forces and let everyone in the UK decide which of the British Isles nation they wish to belong to.

I'll be opting to become a citizen of a Scotland committed to rejoining the EU, just saying.

I have already made that decision. Brexit is a disgusting project pandering to racism and xenophobia and has made me glad that I hold Irish citizenship.

Jonathan said:

The irony of Brexit is that it proves that we were sovereign all along. Who knew. 🤷‍♂️

Theuniondivvie said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

williamglenn said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

For me, this is a genuinely exciting choice between two options that both have much to recommend them. With a deal, we put all the recent uncertainty to bed, people on both sides can take a much needed break from thinking about it - the psychological benefits of the smoothest possible transition are not inconsiderable. Without one, undoubtedly the more exciting option, we galvanise the country around the subject of its own future prosperity in a way not seen since the 1930's. We become an independent, prosperous trading nation. I understand that people aren't as excited as me, and that you don't really enjoy reading this, but it's honestly how I feel.

And to think some people say that Brexit is driven by WW2 nostalgia!

For me it's more harking back to the spacious days of Good Queen Bess.

Luvvin' the England, this sceptred isle vibe.

Theuniondivvie said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

williamglenn said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

For me, this is a genuinely exciting choice between two options that both have much to recommend them. With a deal, we put all the recent uncertainty to bed, people on both sides can take a much needed break from thinking about it - the psychological benefits of the smoothest possible transition are not inconsiderable. Without one, undoubtedly the more exciting option, we galvanise the country around the subject of its own future prosperity in a way not seen since the 1930's. We become an independent, prosperous trading nation. I understand that people aren't as excited as me, and that you don't really enjoy reading this, but it's honestly how I feel.

And to think some people say that Brexit is driven by WW2 nostalgia!

For me it's more harking back to the spacious days of Good Queen Bess.

Luvvin' the England, this sceptred isle vibe.

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1337063222902468608?s=20

Theuniondivvie said:

Pagan2 said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Pagan2 said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Pagan2 said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Pagan2 said:

MikeSmithson said:

Can someone explain what benefit we get for abandoning freedom of movement for Brits., much high insurance costs of visiting EU countries, higher food price in the UK among many negatives, UK motor manufacturing reduced etc

Simple we stop allowing in low value immigrants. I am entirely unphased by the number or nationality but its a simple fact that immigrants that are not net contributors to the treasury means that the public service pie has to stretch further without additional money. Explain to me why a minimum wage barista of any nationality is worth having as an immigrant

That algorithm that works out who are the high value immigrants is a good one.

'German couple behind vaccine are immigrant success story

Scientist couple born to immigrant parents from Turkey are now among Germany's richest 100 people'

https://tinyurl.com/y5tdtgk8

Total bollocks because one child of an immigrant out of a 10000 probably becomes a genius doesnt mean the other 9999 are offset. Genius's are rare. I guess your thoughts is we should let in all on the grounds that one or two might have a kid thats a genius

I hate to drag you away from your total bollocks level of discourse, but are immigrants net contributors to or net recipients from the UK economy?

There are both of course, I am happy to have immigrants that are net contributors, I am not happy to have those that are net recipients. Is that so hard to understand?

You know what the meaning of the word net when applied to immigrants is, right?

Well no idea what you think it means. I use it as in they put in more to the treasury than they take out.

So immigrants give more to the economy than they take out. Glad that we've settled that at least.

Beibheirli_C said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

williamglenn said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

For me, this is a genuinely exciting choice between two options that both have much to recommend them. With a deal, we put all the recent uncertainty to bed, people on both sides can take a much needed break from thinking about it - the psychological benefits of the smoothest possible transition are not inconsiderable. Without one, undoubtedly the more exciting option, we galvanise the country around the subject of its own future prosperity in a way not seen since the 1930's. We become an independent, prosperous trading nation. I understand that people aren't as excited as me, and that you don't really enjoy reading this, but it's honestly how I feel.

And to think some people say that Brexit is driven by WW2 nostalgia!

For me it's more harking back to the spacious days of Good Queen Bess.

Really? When the "UK" was just England & Wales? Scotland and Ireland were separate countries and Britain had few international friends and spent most of its time sending privateers to rob Spanish ships coming back from the New World?

This is your vision for Britain?

Benpointer said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Benpointer said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

williamglenn said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

For me, this is a genuinely exciting choice between two options that both have much to recommend them. With a deal, we put all the recent uncertainty to bed, people on both sides can take a much needed break from thinking about it - the psychological benefits of the smoothest possible transition are not inconsiderable. Without one, undoubtedly the more exciting option, we galvanise the country around the subject of its own future prosperity in a way not seen since the 1930's. We become an independent, prosperous trading nation. I understand that people aren't as excited as me, and that you don't really enjoy reading this, but it's honestly how I feel.

And to think some people say that Brexit is driven by WW2 nostalgia!

For me it's more harking back to the spacious days of Good Queen Bess.

Luvvin' the England, this sceptred isle vibe.

When the UK breaks up in a few years time, we should apply market forces and let everyone in the UK decide which of the British Isles nation they wish to belong to.

I'll be opting to become a citizen of a Scotland committed to rejoining the EU, just saying.

There's a slightly tiresome meme on Twitter that when English folk say that they want to move to an indy Scotland, cheery Scots folk say that they'll put the kettle on. Nevertheless let me know when the move's happening and I'll put the kettle on

Haha thanks!

But I'm suggesting an independent Scotland should be more ambitious and seek a tax-paying citizen cohort from across the old UK.

I'll swear alleigance to the Scottish state, pay (possibly higher) Scottish taxes, support a Scottish welfare state, vote in Scottish elections, but live here in Dorset for the time being.

Seriously, Scotland should make a bid for this.A lot of high-earning progressives would opt in... and you'd probably end up with London ruled from Edinburgh!

PS Plan B would be to move to Scotland in 5-10 years.

Foxy said:

Beibheirli_C said:

Foxy said:

Beibheirli_C said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

williamglenn said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

For me, this is a genuinely exciting choice between two options that both have much to recommend them. With a deal, we put all the recent uncertainty to bed, people on both sides can take a much needed break from thinking about it - the psychological benefits of the smoothest possible transition are not inconsiderable. Without one, undoubtedly the more exciting option, we galvanise the country around the subject of its own future prosperity in a way not seen since the 1930's. We become an independent, prosperous trading nation. I understand that people aren't as excited as me, and that you don't really enjoy reading this, but it's honestly how I feel.

And to think some people say that Brexit is driven by WW2 nostalgia!

For me it's more harking back to the spacious days of Good Queen Bess.

Really? When the "UK" was just England & Wales? Scotland and Ireland were separate countries and Britain had few international friends and spent most of its time sending privateers to rob Spanish ships coming back from the New World?

This is your vision for Britain?

And commercialised and monetised the Atlantic slave trade...

Be fair, that was a bit later than Good Queen Bess.

On the contrary, Good Queen Bess made the slave trader Hawkins Treasurer of the Royal Navy, and admiral, granting a coat of arms to him that featured an African slave.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hawkins_(naval_commander)

Benpointer said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Benpointer said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

williamglenn said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

For me, this is a genuinely exciting choice between two options that both have much to recommend them. With a deal, we put all the recent uncertainty to bed, people on both sides can take a much needed break from thinking about it - the psychological benefits of the smoothest possible transition are not inconsiderable. Without one, undoubtedly the more exciting option, we galvanise the country around the subject of its own future prosperity in a way not seen since the 1930's. We become an independent, prosperous trading nation. I understand that people aren't as excited as me, and that you don't really enjoy reading this, but it's honestly how I feel.

And to think some people say that Brexit is driven by WW2 nostalgia!

For me it's more harking back to the spacious days of Good Queen Bess.

Luvvin' the England, this sceptred isle vibe.

When the UK breaks up in a few years time, we should apply market forces and let everyone in the UK decide which of the British Isles nation they wish to belong to.

I'll be opting to become a citizen of a Scotland committed to rejoining the EU, just saying.

There's a slightly tiresome meme on Twitter that when English folk say that they want to move to an indy Scotland, cheery Scots folk say that they'll put the kettle on. Nevertheless let me know when the move's happening and I'll put the kettle on

Haha thanks!

But I'm suggesting an independent Scotland should be more ambitious and seek a tax-paying citizen cohort from across the old UK.

I'll swear alleigance to the Scottish state, pay (possibly higher) Scottish taxes, support a Scottish welfare state, vote in Scottish elections, but live here in Dorset for the time being.

Seriously, Scotland should make a bid for this.A lot of high-earning progressives would opt in... and you'd probably end up with London ruled from Edinburgh!

PS Plan B would be to move to Scotland in 5-10 years.

Luckyguy1983 said:

For me, this is a genuinely exciting choice between two options that both have much to recommend them. With a deal, we put all the recent uncertainty to bed, people on both sides can take a much needed break from thinking about it - the psychological benefits of the smoothest possible transition are not inconsiderable. Without one, undoubtedly the more exciting option, we galvanise the country around the subject of its own future prosperity in a way not seen since the 1930's. We become an independent, prosperous trading nation. I understand that people aren't as excited as me, and that you don't really enjoy reading this, but it's honestly how I feel.

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1337063222902468608?s=20

williamglenn said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Beibheirli_C said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

williamglenn said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

For me, this is a genuinely exciting choice between two options that both have much to recommend them. With a deal, we put all the recent uncertainty to bed, people on both sides can take a much needed break from thinking about it - the psychological benefits of the smoothest possible transition are not inconsiderable. Without one, undoubtedly the more exciting option, we galvanise the country around the subject of its own future prosperity in a way not seen since the 1930's. We become an independent, prosperous trading nation. I understand that people aren't as excited as me, and that you don't really enjoy reading this, but it's honestly how I feel.

And to think some people say that Brexit is driven by WW2 nostalgia!

For me it's more harking back to the spacious days of Good Queen Bess.

Really? When the "UK" was just England & Wales? Scotland and Ireland were separate countries and Britain had few international friends and spent most of its time sending privateers to rob Spanish ships coming back from the New World?

This is your vision for Britain?

I do love how you and so many of your fellow travelers on the misery train are actually taking my comments about the era of codpieces and open sewerage so seriously that you're actually trying to make 'zingers' about it.

So when you honestly felt excited about galvanising the country in a way not seen since the 1930s, we should take that as a joke?

Beibheirli_C said:

Roger said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

williamglenn said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

For me, this is a genuinely exciting choice between two options that both have much to recommend them. With a deal, we put all the recent uncertainty to bed, people on both sides can take a much needed break from thinking about it - the psychological benefits of the smoothest possible transition are not inconsiderable. Without one, undoubtedly the more exciting option, we galvanise the country around the subject of its own future prosperity in a way not seen since the 1930's. We become an independent, prosperous trading nation. I understand that people aren't as excited as me, and that you don't really enjoy reading this, but it's honestly how I feel.

And to think some people say that Brexit is driven by WW2 nostalgia!

For me it's more harking back to the spacious days of Good Queen Bess.

Luvvin' the England, this sceptred isle vibe.

Is Casino Royale on the board this evening?

Judging by his posts this morning, he is probably organising the Invasion of Europe to teach them a lesson, by jingo. I half expect a fleet of ships manned by the PB Tories with HYFUD directing operations from a bunker under Whitehall.....

HYUFD said:

Benpointer said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

williamglenn said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

For me, this is a genuinely exciting choice between two options that both have much to recommend them. With a deal, we put all the recent uncertainty to bed, people on both sides can take a much needed break from thinking about it - the psychological benefits of the smoothest possible transition are not inconsiderable. Without one, undoubtedly the more exciting option, we galvanise the country around the subject of its own future prosperity in a way not seen since the 1930's. We become an independent, prosperous trading nation. I understand that people aren't as excited as me, and that you don't really enjoy reading this, but it's honestly how I feel.

And to think some people say that Brexit is driven by WW2 nostalgia!

For me it's more harking back to the spacious days of Good Queen Bess.

Luvvin' the England, this sceptred isle vibe.

When the UK breaks up in a few years time, we should apply market forces and let everyone in the UK decide which of the British Isles nation they wish to belong to.

I'll be opting to become a citizen of a Scotland committed to rejoining the EU, just saying.

The UK will not be breaking up and if you hate your own country so much you may as well sod off and move to the EU now, bye!!

Mexicanpete said:

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1337063222902468608?s=20

I believe few of us are wishing for disaster, it just seems inevitable, and there is nothing we can do about it.

In 1985 I was 23 and I had just bought a brand new white Ford Capri 1.6 Laser. I was travelling too fast on the wet A40 between Cheltenham and Oxford, the traffic lights changed and I braked.. The moment the front near-side wishbone snapped as I smashed through the curb I knew I was only going to be stopped by the traffic lights, not the red illumination but the pole. To this day I can picture those frozen seconds, like retarded frames on a film. I was not wishing for disaster, it just seemed inevitable and there was nothing I could do about it.

Foxy said:

Mexicanpete said:

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1337063222902468608?s=20

I believe few of us are wishing for disaster, it just seems inevitable, and there is nothing we can do about it.

In 1985 I was 23 and I had just bought a brand new white Ford Capri 1.6 Laser. I was travelling too fast on the wet A40 between Cheltenham and Oxford, the traffic lights changed and I braked.. The moment the front near-side wishbone snapped as I smashed through the curb I knew I was only going to be stopped by the traffic lights, not the red illumination but the pole. To this day I can picture those frozen seconds, like retarded frames on a film. I was not wishing for disaster, it just seemed inevitable and there was nothing I could do about it.

I recall that feeling. About the same year I was in a front wheel skid on a wet dual carriageway on my Honda twin. The thing with a front wheel skid is the inevitability, the outcome being dependent on what you hit afterwards. Those seconds stretch for a very long time. I am told that you should not look at what would be most fatal, it increases the chances of winding up there. Perhaps just motorcycle lore though.

Foxy said:

Mexicanpete said:

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1337063222902468608?s=20

I believe few of us are wishing for disaster, it just seems inevitable, and there is nothing we can do about it.

In 1985 I was 23 and I had just bought a brand new white Ford Capri 1.6 Laser. I was travelling too fast on the wet A40 between Cheltenham and Oxford, the traffic lights changed and I braked.. The moment the front near-side wishbone snapped as I smashed through the curb I knew I was only going to be stopped by the traffic lights, not the red illumination but the pole. To this day I can picture those frozen seconds, like retarded frames on a film. I was not wishing for disaster, it just seemed inevitable and there was nothing I could do about it.

I recall that feeling. About the same year I was in a front wheel skid on a wet dual carriageway on my Honda twin. The thing with a front wheel skid is the inevitability, the outcome being dependent on what you hit afterwards. Those seconds stretch for a very long time. I am told that you should not look at what would be most fatal, it increases the chances of winding up there. Perhaps just motorcycle lore though.

Pagan2 said:

Foxy said:

Mexicanpete said:

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1337063222902468608?s=20

I believe few of us are wishing for disaster, it just seems inevitable, and there is nothing we can do about it.

In 1985 I was 23 and I had just bought a brand new white Ford Capri 1.6 Laser. I was travelling too fast on the wet A40 between Cheltenham and Oxford, the traffic lights changed and I braked.. The moment the front near-side wishbone snapped as I smashed through the curb I knew I was only going to be stopped by the traffic lights, not the red illumination but the pole. To this day I can picture those frozen seconds, like retarded frames on a film. I was not wishing for disaster, it just seemed inevitable and there was nothing I could do about it.

I recall that feeling. About the same year I was in a front wheel skid on a wet dual carriageway on my Honda twin. The thing with a front wheel skid is the inevitability, the outcome being dependent on what you hit afterwards. Those seconds stretch for a very long time. I am told that you should not look at what would be most fatal, it increases the chances of winding up there. Perhaps just motorcycle lore though.

When learning to ride a motorycycle instructor always lectured us on that the bike went where we were looking. Not about crash situations simply steering the thing and always found it true

Foxy said:

Pagan2 said:

Foxy said:

Mexicanpete said:

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1337063222902468608?s=20

I believe few of us are wishing for disaster, it just seems inevitable, and there is nothing we can do about it.

In 1985 I was 23 and I had just bought a brand new white Ford Capri 1.6 Laser. I was travelling too fast on the wet A40 between Cheltenham and Oxford, the traffic lights changed and I braked.. The moment the front near-side wishbone snapped as I smashed through the curb I knew I was only going to be stopped by the traffic lights, not the red illumination but the pole. To this day I can picture those frozen seconds, like retarded frames on a film. I was not wishing for disaster, it just seemed inevitable and there was nothing I could do about it.

I recall that feeling. About the same year I was in a front wheel skid on a wet dual carriageway on my Honda twin. The thing with a front wheel skid is the inevitability, the outcome being dependent on what you hit afterwards. Those seconds stretch for a very long time. I am told that you should not look at what would be most fatal, it increases the chances of winding up there. Perhaps just motorcycle lore though.

When learning to ride a motorycycle instructor always lectured us on that the bike went where we were looking. Not about crash situations simply steering the thing and always found it true

Counterintuitively the only way to control a front wheel skid is to relax your grip on the handlebars, and accelerate. Unfortunately that would have put me through the back window of the car that had pulled out in front of me...

Beibheirli_C said:

Foxy said:

Pagan2 said:

Foxy said:

Mexicanpete said:

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1337063222902468608?s=20

I believe few of us are wishing for disaster, it just seems inevitable, and there is nothing we can do about it.

In 1985 I was 23 and I had just bought a brand new white Ford Capri 1.6 Laser. I was travelling too fast on the wet A40 between Cheltenham and Oxford, the traffic lights changed and I braked.. The moment the front near-side wishbone snapped as I smashed through the curb I knew I was only going to be stopped by the traffic lights, not the red illumination but the pole. To this day I can picture those frozen seconds, like retarded frames on a film. I was not wishing for disaster, it just seemed inevitable and there was nothing I could do about it.

I recall that feeling. About the same year I was in a front wheel skid on a wet dual carriageway on my Honda twin. The thing with a front wheel skid is the inevitability, the outcome being dependent on what you hit afterwards. Those seconds stretch for a very long time. I am told that you should not look at what would be most fatal, it increases the chances of winding up there. Perhaps just motorcycle lore though.

When learning to ride a motorycycle instructor always lectured us on that the bike went where we were looking. Not about crash situations simply steering the thing and always found it true

Counterintuitively the only way to control a front wheel skid is to relax your grip on the handlebars, and accelerate. Unfortunately that would have put me through the back window of the car that had pulled out in front of me...

That sounds like stall recovery... aim at the ground and speed up!

Pagan2 said:

Foxy said:

Pagan2 said:

Foxy said:

Mexicanpete said:

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1337063222902468608?s=20

I believe few of us are wishing for disaster, it just seems inevitable, and there is nothing we can do about it.

In 1985 I was 23 and I had just bought a brand new white Ford Capri 1.6 Laser. I was travelling too fast on the wet A40 between Cheltenham and Oxford, the traffic lights changed and I braked.. The moment the front near-side wishbone snapped as I smashed through the curb I knew I was only going to be stopped by the traffic lights, not the red illumination but the pole. To this day I can picture those frozen seconds, like retarded frames on a film. I was not wishing for disaster, it just seemed inevitable and there was nothing I could do about it.

I recall that feeling. About the same year I was in a front wheel skid on a wet dual carriageway on my Honda twin. The thing with a front wheel skid is the inevitability, the outcome being dependent on what you hit afterwards. Those seconds stretch for a very long time. I am told that you should not look at what would be most fatal, it increases the chances of winding up there. Perhaps just motorcycle lore though.

When learning to ride a motorycycle instructor always lectured us on that the bike went where we were looking. Not about crash situations simply steering the thing and always found it true

Counterintuitively the only way to control a front wheel skid is to relax your grip on the handlebars, and accelerate. Unfortunately that would have put me through the back window of the car that had pulled out in front of me...

Sometimes on a motorcycle there are no good choices merely which might hurt less

Pagan2 said:

Foxy said:

Pagan2 said:

Foxy said:

Mexicanpete said:

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1337063222902468608?s=20

I believe few of us are wishing for disaster, it just seems inevitable, and there is nothing we can do about it.

In 1985 I was 23 and I had just bought a brand new white Ford Capri 1.6 Laser. I was travelling too fast on the wet A40 between Cheltenham and Oxford, the traffic lights changed and I braked.. The moment the front near-side wishbone snapped as I smashed through the curb I knew I was only going to be stopped by the traffic lights, not the red illumination but the pole. To this day I can picture those frozen seconds, like retarded frames on a film. I was not wishing for disaster, it just seemed inevitable and there was nothing I could do about it.

I recall that feeling. About the same year I was in a front wheel skid on a wet dual carriageway on my Honda twin. The thing with a front wheel skid is the inevitability, the outcome being dependent on what you hit afterwards. Those seconds stretch for a very long time. I am told that you should not look at what would be most fatal, it increases the chances of winding up there. Perhaps just motorcycle lore though.

When learning to ride a motorycycle instructor always lectured us on that the bike went where we were looking. Not about crash situations simply steering the thing and always found it true

Counterintuitively the only way to control a front wheel skid is to relax your grip on the handlebars, and accelerate. Unfortunately that would have put me through the back window of the car that had pulled out in front of me...

Sometimes on a motorcycle there are no good choices merely which might hurt less

Pagan2 said:

Beibheirli_C said:

Foxy said:

Pagan2 said:

Foxy said:

Mexicanpete said:

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1337063222902468608?s=20

I believe few of us are wishing for disaster, it just seems inevitable, and there is nothing we can do about it.

In 1985 I was 23 and I had just bought a brand new white Ford Capri 1.6 Laser. I was travelling too fast on the wet A40 between Cheltenham and Oxford, the traffic lights changed and I braked.. The moment the front near-side wishbone snapped as I smashed through the curb I knew I was only going to be stopped by the traffic lights, not the red illumination but the pole. To this day I can picture those frozen seconds, like retarded frames on a film. I was not wishing for disaster, it just seemed inevitable and there was nothing I could do about it.

I recall that feeling. About the same year I was in a front wheel skid on a wet dual carriageway on my Honda twin. The thing with a front wheel skid is the inevitability, the outcome being dependent on what you hit afterwards. Those seconds stretch for a very long time. I am told that you should not look at what would be most fatal, it increases the chances of winding up there. Perhaps just motorcycle lore though.

When learning to ride a motorycycle instructor always lectured us on that the bike went where we were looking. Not about crash situations simply steering the thing and always found it true

Counterintuitively the only way to control a front wheel skid is to relax your grip on the handlebars, and accelerate. Unfortunately that would have put me through the back window of the car that had pulled out in front of me...

That sounds like stall recovery... aim at the ground and speed up!

btw earlier you talked about electing fascist governments, never wanted to however might well have voted for a party promising to zero vat on gas, electric, tampons etc and other necessities of life all verboten by the eu

williamglenn said:

Pagan2 said:

Foxy said:

Pagan2 said:

Foxy said:

Mexicanpete said:

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1337063222902468608?s=20

I believe few of us are wishing for disaster, it just seems inevitable, and there is nothing we can do about it.

In 1985 I was 23 and I had just bought a brand new white Ford Capri 1.6 Laser. I was travelling too fast on the wet A40 between Cheltenham and Oxford, the traffic lights changed and I braked.. The moment the front near-side wishbone snapped as I smashed through the curb I knew I was only going to be stopped by the traffic lights, not the red illumination but the pole. To this day I can picture those frozen seconds, like retarded frames on a film. I was not wishing for disaster, it just seemed inevitable and there was nothing I could do about it.

I recall that feeling. About the same year I was in a front wheel skid on a wet dual carriageway on my Honda twin. The thing with a front wheel skid is the inevitability, the outcome being dependent on what you hit afterwards. Those seconds stretch for a very long time. I am told that you should not look at what would be most fatal, it increases the chances of winding up there. Perhaps just motorcycle lore though.

When learning to ride a motorycycle instructor always lectured us on that the bike went where we were looking. Not about crash situations simply steering the thing and always found it true

Counterintuitively the only way to control a front wheel skid is to relax your grip on the handlebars, and accelerate. Unfortunately that would have put me through the back window of the car that had pulled out in front of me...

Sometimes on a motorcycle there are no good choices merely which might hurt less

Perhaps the same is true of our geopolitical choices in the year 2020. What if what hurts less is fully committing to the EU?

Pagan2 said:

williamglenn said:

Pagan2 said:

Foxy said:

Pagan2 said:

Foxy said:

Mexicanpete said:

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1337063222902468608?s=20

I believe few of us are wishing for disaster, it just seems inevitable, and there is nothing we can do about it.

In 1985 I was 23 and I had just bought a brand new white Ford Capri 1.6 Laser. I was travelling too fast on the wet A40 between Cheltenham and Oxford, the traffic lights changed and I braked.. The moment the front near-side wishbone snapped as I smashed through the curb I knew I was only going to be stopped by the traffic lights, not the red illumination but the pole. To this day I can picture those frozen seconds, like retarded frames on a film. I was not wishing for disaster, it just seemed inevitable and there was nothing I could do about it.

I recall that feeling. About the same year I was in a front wheel skid on a wet dual carriageway on my Honda twin. The thing with a front wheel skid is the inevitability, the outcome being dependent on what you hit afterwards. Those seconds stretch for a very long time. I am told that you should not look at what would be most fatal, it increases the chances of winding up there. Perhaps just motorcycle lore though.

When learning to ride a motorycycle instructor always lectured us on that the bike went where we were looking. Not about crash situations simply steering the thing and always found it true

Counterintuitively the only way to control a front wheel skid is to relax your grip on the handlebars, and accelerate. Unfortunately that would have put me through the back window of the car that had pulled out in front of me...

Sometimes on a motorcycle there are no good choices merely which might hurt less

Perhaps the same is true of our geopolitical choices in the year 2020. What if what hurts less is fully committing to the EU?

That's a bit like saying what if the best cure for your headache is decapitation. Don't think you will get many takers for fully in even among remainers

Mexicanpete said:

HYUFD said:

Benpointer said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

williamglenn said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

For me, this is a genuinely exciting choice between two options that both have much to recommend them. With a deal, we put all the recent uncertainty to bed, people on both sides can take a much needed break from thinking about it - the psychological benefits of the smoothest possible transition are not inconsiderable. Without one, undoubtedly the more exciting option, we galvanise the country around the subject of its own future prosperity in a way not seen since the 1930's. We become an independent, prosperous trading nation. I understand that people aren't as excited as me, and that you don't really enjoy reading this, but it's honestly how I feel.

And to think some people say that Brexit is driven by WW2 nostalgia!

For me it's more harking back to the spacious days of Good Queen Bess.

Luvvin' the England, this sceptred isle vibe.

When the UK breaks up in a few years time, we should apply market forces and let everyone in the UK decide which of the British Isles nation they wish to belong to.

I'll be opting to become a citizen of a Scotland committed to rejoining the EU, just saying.

The UK will not be breaking up and if you hate your own country so much you may as well sod off and move to the EU now, bye!!

Well we can't take our pensions and health benefits with us anymore, or we would, so you are lumbered with us!

williamglenn said:

Pagan2 said:

williamglenn said:

Pagan2 said:

Foxy said:

Pagan2 said:

Foxy said:

Mexicanpete said:

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1337063222902468608?s=20

I believe few of us are wishing for disaster, it just seems inevitable, and there is nothing we can do about it.

In 1985 I was 23 and I had just bought a brand new white Ford Capri 1.6 Laser. I was travelling too fast on the wet A40 between Cheltenham and Oxford, the traffic lights changed and I braked.. The moment the front near-side wishbone snapped as I smashed through the curb I knew I was only going to be stopped by the traffic lights, not the red illumination but the pole. To this day I can picture those frozen seconds, like retarded frames on a film. I was not wishing for disaster, it just seemed inevitable and there was nothing I could do about it.

I recall that feeling. About the same year I was in a front wheel skid on a wet dual carriageway on my Honda twin. The thing with a front wheel skid is the inevitability, the outcome being dependent on what you hit afterwards. Those seconds stretch for a very long time. I am told that you should not look at what would be most fatal, it increases the chances of winding up there. Perhaps just motorcycle lore though.

When learning to ride a motorycycle instructor always lectured us on that the bike went where we were looking. Not about crash situations simply steering the thing and always found it true

Counterintuitively the only way to control a front wheel skid is to relax your grip on the handlebars, and accelerate. Unfortunately that would have put me through the back window of the car that had pulled out in front of me...

Sometimes on a motorcycle there are no good choices merely which might hurt less

Perhaps the same is true of our geopolitical choices in the year 2020. What if what hurts less is fully committing to the EU?

That's a bit like saying what if the best cure for your headache is decapitation. Don't think you will get many takers for fully in even among remainers

You equate EU membership with death?

NickPalmer said:

Foxy said:

Pagan2 said:

Foxy said:

Pagan2 said:

Foxy said:

Mexicanpete said:

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1337063222902468608?s=20

I believe few of us are wishing for disaster, it just seems inevitable, and there is nothing we can do about it.

In 1985 I was 23 and I had just bought a brand new white Ford Capri 1.6 Laser. I was travelling too fast on the wet A40 between Cheltenham and Oxford, the traffic lights changed and I braked.. The moment the front near-side wishbone snapped as I smashed through the curb I knew I was only going to be stopped by the traffic lights, not the red illumination but the pole. To this day I can picture those frozen seconds, like retarded frames on a film. I was not wishing for disaster, it just seemed inevitable and there was nothing I could do about it.

I recall that feeling. About the same year I was in a front wheel skid on a wet dual carriageway on my Honda twin. The thing with a front wheel skid is the inevitability, the outcome being dependent on what you hit afterwards. Those seconds stretch for a very long time. I am told that you should not look at what would be most fatal, it increases the chances of winding up there. Perhaps just motorcycle lore though.

When learning to ride a motorycycle instructor always lectured us on that the bike went where we were looking. Not about crash situations simply steering the thing and always found it true

Counterintuitively the only way to control a front wheel skid is to relax your grip on the handlebars, and accelerate. Unfortunately that would have put me through the back window of the car that had pulled out in front of me...

Sometimes on a motorcycle there are no good choices merely which might hurt less

Yes, I bounced down the road for some fifty yards, but nothing hit me. I got up, sat on the shoulder catching my breath for a bit then found a rock to bash the foot pedal straight to make the bike rideable. Then gingerly rode the 30 miles home.

I loved motorbiking, and the thrill of danger was undeniably part of it, though I came nowhere near the adrenaline seeking of @Dura_Ace. I only gave up when I became responsible for others and not just myself.

I used to drive a bit like that until I shook off the hormones. But even then it struck me that whereas I frequently saw cars 10-20% above the limit, and others just inside it, I NEVER saw a motorbike on a motorway anywhere near the speed limit.

Foxy said:

Roger said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

williamglenn said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

For me, this is a genuinely exciting choice between two options that both have much to recommend them. With a deal, we put all the recent uncertainty to bed, people on both sides can take a much needed break from thinking about it - the psychological benefits of the smoothest possible transition are not inconsiderable. Without one, undoubtedly the more exciting option, we galvanise the country around the subject of its own future prosperity in a way not seen since the 1930's. We become an independent, prosperous trading nation. I understand that people aren't as excited as me, and that you don't really enjoy reading this, but it's honestly how I feel.

And to think some people say that Brexit is driven by WW2 nostalgia!

For me it's more harking back to the spacious days of Good Queen Bess.

Luvvin' the England, this sceptred isle vibe.

Is Casino Royale on the board this evening?

Presumably drilling the Home Guard with @HYUFD

MattW said:

Pagan2 said:

MattW said:

Pagan2 said:

rcs1000 said:

Pagan2 said:

Benpointer said:

Pagan2 said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Pagan2 said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Pagan2 said:

MikeSmithson said:

Can someone explain what benefit we get for abandoning freedom of movement for Brits., much high insurance costs of visiting EU countries, higher food price in the UK among many negatives, UK motor manufacturing reduced etc

Simple we stop allowing in low value immigrants. I am entirely unphased by the number or nationality but its a simple fact that immigrants that are not net contributors to the treasury means that the public service pie has to stretch further without additional money. Explain to me why a minimum wage barista of any nationality is worth having as an immigrant

That algorithm that works out who are the high value immigrants is a good one.

'German couple behind vaccine are immigrant success story

Scientist couple born to immigrant parents from Turkey are now among Germany's richest 100 people'

https://tinyurl.com/y5tdtgk8

Total bollocks because one child of an immigrant out of a 10000 probably becomes a genius doesnt mean the other 9999 are offset. Genius's are rare. I guess your thoughts is we should let in all on the grounds that one or two might have a kid thats a genius

I hate to drag you away from your total bollocks level of discourse, but are immigrants net contributors to or net recipients from the UK economy?

There are both of course, I am happy to have immigrants that are net contributors, I am not happy to have those that are net recipients. Is that so hard to understand?

How many immigrants do you think are net recipients? Any evidence?

Quite a lot. Most studies have put the total addition to gdp of immigration as about 2%, considering they are now numbered as a percentage as a lot more %age of the population (approx 5.5%) then then obviously there are many net recipients offsetting the net contributors

I will bet you £1,000 here and now that the contribution of immigrants to UK GDP is more than 2.5%.

No bet as havent looked it up just from memories of oecd studies quoting from a while ago and articles like this

"The £4.3bn contributed by EU migrants to the UK economy should be"

source https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/15/eu-migrants-43bn-contribution-to-uk-should-be-spent-on-poor

now I assume thats meant to be 43 billion as per the headlined but even then 43 billion / 2 trillion (uk gdp) is still not a huge percentage

The headline, and about 4 times in the article, says 4.3 billion. So it is probably a typo in the filename.

But then it's the Graun, so the number is probably imaginary anyway.

I was merely giving an example of why I felt 2,5% was the approximate number. If RCS has better studies he is free to link them

Cheers.

I was just being necessarily contemptuous of the Guardian, as too many years reading / factchecking of it has trained me to be.

;-)

Mexicanpete said:

Dura_Ace said:

Mexicanpete said:

I had just bought a brand new white Ford Capri 1.6 Laser.

I have found the root cause of your problem.

You can blame man and machine. In the day I couldn't handle all of the 82bhp.

WhisperingOracle said:

NickPalmer said:

Wulfrun_Phil said:

Jeremy Warner in the "Telegraph" might almost have written his latest column in response to Nick's thread.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/12/10/vindictive-eu-harms-turning-brexit-punishment/?li_source=LI&li_medium=liftigniter-rhr

It's behind a paywall, so I'll quote selectively:

"Europe has almost never operated a level playing field. The closest it ever came to it was when the bloc was just a handful of countries of broadly similar income and social security arrangements, and even back then, things were about as level as the Scottish highlands. “You scratch my back and I’ll scratch yours” backroom deals and trade-offs have always offered a high degree of protection and competitive advantage for particular national interests. In any case, any pretence at free and fair competition between comparable economies disappeared the moment the EU opened its doors to Europe’s outer reaches. Where were the level playing field constraints on German car manufacturers shifting production to low cost Eastern Europe, or indeed cheap Eastern European labour overwhelming the more prosperous European north? Levelling down, rather than up, became the unintended consequence of the day.

As it is, the UK has some of the most taxing environmental, animal welfare and labour market standards in Europe, with one of the highest minimum wages and now by far the most ambitious target for reducing greenhouse gases.

Perhaps Brussels is right to fear the creation of a low cost, low tax sweatshop on its own doorstep, but if that’s the view, it is almost wholly unsupported by the evidence. There is no majority political constituency in Britain for that kind of future. If it ever came to pass, it would ironically be made more likely by a no-deal outcome, with Europe’s supposed tariff protections arbitraged away by UK currency adjustment and tax breaks to attract international investment. If there was ever a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face, the EU is it."

I don't disagree with some of that, though I think he overstates the paradisical nature of Britain - we are IMO in the top 25% of Europe on animal welfare, and middling on labour market and environmental regulation compared with most of western Europe.But he's right that eastern Europe offers significantly lower pay.

It's not the point, though. My point is that sooner or later Britain OR the EU will decide to do something that is radically different from the other, either higher or lower standards - it is the point of Brexit that we reserve the right to do that, no? - and at that point the party with higher standards has no realistic option but to copy the change or erect a tariff barrier.

He mentions in the article that it's "almost wholly unsupported by the evidence", oddly, and confuses there not necessarily being any big or a priori constituency for Singapore-on-Thames among the general public, with there being a big constituency for it among leading Brexiters. If you've watched for years from across the channel scores of leading Brexiters loudly, proudlly and openly advocating for a low-regulation, footloose future, then that's what you'll act on. Sometimes the Tory-leaning press seem to think no-one on the continent understands or reads English ;.)

rcs1000 said:

RobD said:

williamglenn said:

Just LA.

https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1337205059927625729?s=20

Just LA? Los Angeles county has a population of 10 million.

So, bigger than Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland combined.

Of course, you probably should add South Los Angeles (or Orange County as it's known) to the numbers.

Andy_JS said:

https://twitter.com/NewStatesman/status/1337106056690995204

FrancisUrquhart said:

Andy_JS said:

https://twitter.com/NewStatesman/status/1337106056690995204

That highlights why the UK has always been an uncomfortable member, as we as a nation don't tend to vote for parties who propose the european social model, so always at odds with these ideas that the leading lights in the EU hold so dear and want to advance / see as the solution to many problems.

williamglenn said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Andy_JS said:

https://twitter.com/NewStatesman/status/1337106056690995204

That highlights why the UK has always been an uncomfortable member, as we as a nation don't tend to vote for parties who propose the european social model, so always at odds with these ideas that the leading lights in the EU hold so dear and want to advance / see as the solution to many problems.

Yes, can you imagine Brits voting for things like universal healthcare?