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WH2020 passes another milestone making Trump’s effort to discredit the results even more challenging

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  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617

    The seamless transition from 'Sturge was wrong to pursue a different policy from Westminster' to 'Sturge was wrong to pursue the same policy as Westminster' will be a joy to witness.
    I do wonder what will happen if she tries to cancel Christmas. On second thoughts, I do know.
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589
    DavidL said:

    Its a roll of the dice, no question. And I have sympathy with those who say that is not a very governmental approach. Like intercontinental nuclear war the only way to win is not to play.
    I think the best thing for them to do now is get JVT and Johnson on the telly at a briefing with the latest US figures and say "This is what happens when you mingle at a major holiday with lots of people. Please, please, consider cancelling your plans. We aren't going to arrest you for having a Christmas Lunch but with the vaccine on the horizon it just isn't worth it".
  • Are you moaning again that the the EU are being "unreasonable"?

    It doesn't matter - it is what it is. Being a "europhile" has nothing to do with it.
    Not moaning no, just discussing politics on a politics website. If the EU are unreasonable then we have ways to respond to that: my preferred choice is to walk away without a deal.

    Acknowledging that the EU are being unreasonable is the first step to nationally deciding that we should walk away
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,972
    Breaking: the WP article about the renowned Xmas movie Die Hard is now a featured article candidate
  • RobD said:

    Yeah, "You won't get fined for visiting your relatives over Christmas, but that doesn't mean it isn't a completely stupid thing to do."
    Absolutely. The government should have made it clear that it wont strictly be illegal to gather but that they and their medics strongly urge people not to as it is a real risk.

    As every day passes I am more glad that I took the decision not to have any relatives this year.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,544
    edited December 2020
    OnboardG1 said:

    I think it goes further than that. An amicable "no-deal" is now possible thanks to Gove actually being competent when asked to do something technical. If Johnson resists the temptation to Eurobash in the event of no agreement being reached then I think the EU would be willing to a) leave the door open for future talks and b) try to mitigate against the worst disruption come January.

    However, this is Boris Johnson we're talking about here.
    It could be in the political interests of both sides to go through a few days/weeks of No Deal before signing the deal that's on the table.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,966
    Carnyx said:

    I do hope you are right, and I'm sure you are right that they will help. But enough?
    I think the Scottish government is looking to delay the return of students back to their halls for about 6 weeks. Although I feel very sorry for those such as my nephew who have had a pretty shit first year as a student that is probably a sensible response in light of the anticipated January increase and will hopefully reduce the pressure on hospitals.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,966
    OnboardG1 said:

    I think the best thing for them to do now is get JVT and Johnson on the telly at a briefing with the latest US figures and say "This is what happens when you mingle at a major holiday with lots of people. Please, please, consider cancelling your plans. We aren't going to arrest you for having a Christmas Lunch but with the vaccine on the horizon it just isn't worth it".
    Yes. That would be the right thing to do.
  • Bit of controversy for Biden. He is planning to put a military man in charge of Defence Dept. It has always been a civilian.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,317
    IshmaelZ said:

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/covid-patient-tells-doctor-all-22-people-at-her-thanksgiving-dinner-have-symptoms/ar-BB1bLDQf?ocid=uxbndlbing
    They even gave us a trial run of the experiment to show how mad it is.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,317

    Bit of controversy for Biden. He is planning to put a military man in charge of Defence Dept. It has always been a civilian.

    Except for when it has not.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,129
    edited December 2020
    Carnyx said:

    I do wonder what will happen if she tries to cancel Christmas. On second thoughts, I do know.
    She’ll blame London and put the SNP up another 20 points in the polls, on past form.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,516
    Carnyx said:

    I do wonder what will happen if she tries to cancel Christmas. On second thoughts, I do know.
    Nationalist Governments can't afford to take unpopular decisions like that - she would only have cancelled Christmas so if given cover by the other home nations, and she'd have probably tried to cancel it 'a bit less' than England because 'Scotland is in a much better place'. It has to be bread and circuses all the way till the goal is achieved.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    edited December 2020
    DavidL said:

    I think the Scottish government is looking to delay the return of students back to their halls for about 6 weeks. Although I feel very sorry for those such as my nephew who have had a pretty shit first year as a student that is probably a sensible response in light of the anticipated January increase and will hopefully reduce the pressure on hospitals.
    More correctly "up to" - staggered return.

    https://www.gov.scot/news/staggered-return-to-campus-for-university-students/#:~:text=Further COVID testing before restart,coronavirus (COVID-19).

    PS sorry -not trying to sound rude.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,966

    Bit of controversy for Biden. He is planning to put a military man in charge of Defence Dept. It has always been a civilian.

    Mad Dog Matliss waves hullo.

    But there are good reasons for ensuring that the head of the military is civilian. The man he has chosen looks very experienced and competent and would also be the first black man to hold the position but I think its a mistake.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,407

    He didn't go to one of the proper Cambridge colleges, he went to one of the JCL colleges.


    One that wasn't even a proper college until 1948!
    What's a 'JCL' college? Not a term I'm familiar with.
  • RobD said:

    Except for when it has not.
    Ah, my mistake - sounds like is usually or typically a civilian.
  • RobD said:

    They even gave us a trial run of the experiment to show how mad it is.
    The messaging on this has bordered on criminal to be honest. Someone in Downing Street was briefing the press about "saving xmas" weeks ago and things have just snowballed from there.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,129
    edited December 2020
    RobD said:

    Except for when it has not.
    Marshall and Mattis were career generals, but I think most of the others who had military records it was national service of one sort or another.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,129
    Carnyx said:

    More correctly "up to" - staggered return.

    https://www.gov.scot/news/staggered-return-to-campus-for-university-students/#:~:text=Further COVID testing before restart,coronavirus (COVID-19).

    PS sorry -not trying to sound rude.
    Staggered returns to halls is what students traditionally do at later times than they should anyway, so I don’t see the problem there.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,966
    Carnyx said:

    More correctly "up to" - staggered return.

    https://www.gov.scot/news/staggered-return-to-campus-for-university-students/#:~:text=Further COVID testing before restart,coronavirus (COVID-19).
    That article says "at least" 6 weeks. My nephew is at Dundee and that what has been indicated to him. All his classes bar one have been online anyway and he has not been able to attend that one for some weeks as he was in quarantine. Its been tough.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617

    Nationalist Governments can't afford to take unpopular decisions like that - she would only have cancelled Christmas so if given cover by the other home nations, and she'd have probably tried to cancel it 'a bit less' than England because 'Scotland is in a much better place'. It has to be bread and circuses all the way till the goal is achieved.
    There is a whacking great Nationalist Government in London, so the logic doesn't quite work.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    DavidL said:

    That article says "at least" 6 weeks. My nephew is at Dundee and that what has been indicated to him. All his classes bar one have been online anyway and he has not been able to attend that one for some weeks as he was in quarantine. Its been tough.
    Ah, I'd read differently in a newspaper report - thanks.
  • The messaging on this has bordered on criminal to be honest. Someone in Downing Street was briefing the press about "saving xmas" weeks ago and things have just snowballed from there.
    I thought the "jolly careful" catchphrase was a good one. Corny but Christmas is always corny. Should be repeated more often until everyone is rolling their eyes at it (but the message has gotten through).
  • DavidL said:

    Yes. That would be the right thing to do.
    The vaccine arrival changes the dynamics of this a hell of a lot. I've been tending towards the 'learning to live with it' side of things, but now only weeks from mass vaccination.

    People can hang on now and have a gathering at Easter. Yeh, its a bit shit but its the sensible thing now.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,966
    edited December 2020
    ydoethur said:

    Marshall and Mattis were career generals, but I think most of the others who had military records it was national service of one sort or another.
    You need to get a waiver if your service is less than 7 years prior. Mattis was, I think, the first to require this and Biden's choice would be the second. There was a good article in the Atlantic about it I will try to find.
    Edit here: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/12/no-job-general/617326/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=atlantic-daily-newsletter&utm_content=20201208&silverid-ref=Njk5MTc2ODk0NTgwS0
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 30,516
    Carnyx said:

    There is a whacking great Nationalist Government in London, so the logic doesn't quite work.
    It does work actually - Boris can't cancel Christmas it for very similar reasons - though in his case it's more that his political capital is at an all time low. Nicola's is still quite high.
  • MrEd said:

    Oh I'd agree with that which is why I think Cruz has got something to do with it (and with his comment he would have presented the PA case to SCOTUS).
    The case from TX has been described as a “press release masquerading as a lawsuit.” by a law professor.
  • Carnyx said:

    There is a whacking great Nationalist Government in London, so the logic doesn't quite work.
    Whacking great patriotic government in London I think you mean.
  • Oi! We were (and I trust, still are) highly proper. And gave the world Lady Hale, never forget.

    Not technically in Cambridge, I'll grant you...
    Ok, I'll let become a proper but JCL college because of Lady Hale.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617
    edited December 2020
    Do you think he had the Shagamobile repainted specifically with that photo op in mind??
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,317
    .
    DavidL said:

    You need to get a waiver if your service is less than 7 years prior. Mattis was, I think, the first to require this and Biden's choice would be the second. There was a good article in the Atlantic about it I will try to find.
    Edit here: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/12/no-job-general/617326/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=atlantic-daily-newsletter&utm_content=20201208&silverid-ref=Njk5MTc2ODk0NTgwS0
    The waiver has been issued twice, once in the 50s and then recently for Mattis.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 53,893
    edited December 2020

    The vaccine arrival changes the dynamics of this a hell of a lot. I've been tending towards the 'learning to live with it' side of things, but now only weeks from mass vaccination.

    People can hang on now and have a gathering at Easter. Yeh, its a bit shit but its the sensible thing now.
    Cancel Christmas.

    Announce a week long bank holiday next year, as a replacement. To be held 1 month after the vaccination rate reaches 90% of the population.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,878
    rcs1000 said:

    They got involved because the politicians in question saw electoral value in the next Primary season from being seen as a big supporter of President Trump!

    It's really that simple. It's exactly the same stupid reason - narrow, temporary political advantage - that sees Keir Starmer instagram a picture of himself on one knee.
    A nonsensical comparison.

    The message "Black Lives Matter" has intrinsic worth.

    The message "Trump Won the Election Really" is ludicrous.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,617

    It does work actually - Boris can't cancel Christmas it for very similar reasons - though in his case it's more that his political capital is at an all time low. Nicola's is still quite high.
    It is still pretty clear that Mr J was being much happiuer about Christmas running riot than Ms S was. But then he's a short-term thinker.
  • This is a diabolically cynical suggestion but it madly could actually work.

    https://twitter.com/JonAskonas/status/1336690583444856834?s=19
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,504

    The vaccine arrival changes the dynamics of this a hell of a lot. I've been tending towards the 'learning to live with it' side of things, but now only weeks from mass vaccination.

    People can hang on now and have a gathering at Easter. Yeh, its a bit shit but its the sensible thing now.
    I'm genuinely shocked that this hasn't happened. It seems so blindingly obvious. I'd go as far as to say they should have shut the schools two weeks ago and said they can go back in mid-January or something.
  • Cancel Christmas.

    Announce a week long bank holiday next year, as a replacement. To be held 1 month after the vaccination rate reaches 90% of the population.
    Christmas in the summer like downunder.
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589

    The vaccine arrival changes the dynamics of this a hell of a lot. I've been tending towards the 'learning to live with it' side of things, but now only weeks from mass vaccination.

    People can hang on now and have a gathering at Easter. Yeh, its a bit shit but its the sensible thing now.
    That’s a reasonable position. I’m hoping more people align with it and Christmas isn’t a disaster.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 2,093
    ydoethur said:

    She’ll blame London and put the SNP up another 20 points in the polls, on past form.
    Yule is over-rated. Beltane is much better, and more comfortable here in Scotland😉
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589

    Christmas in the summer like downunder.
    I’d be keen. Maybe the SG could move the summer bank holidays to actual summer.
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589
    sarissa said:

    Yule is over-rated. Beltane is much better, and more comfortable here in Scotland😉
    It’s like Christmas except your slightly strange friend is painted red and running around with their bits out.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    The case from TX has been described as a “press release masquerading as a lawsuit.” by a law professor.
    Which sounds like a fair description. However, other states have joined in, which may (or may not) have an influence. I'd be interested to see what happens if someone like Florida joined.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,966
    RobD said:

    .

    The waiver has been issued twice, once in the 50s and then recently for Mattis.
    You're right. Marshall in the early 50s so he could oversee the Korean war. I found the piece in the Atlantic quite persuasive, I must say.
  • Wait until Bruno finds out who Her Majesty has honoured.

    Sir Robert Mugabe for starters.
  • It is understood that chilled meats, sausages, mince and unfrozen prepared meals, which are prohibited and restricted from entering the EU from third countries, will be permitted for a period of time, pending a review by both sides.

    And that once a derogation period has elapsed, Northern Ireland supermarkets will have to source such products locally or from the Republic.


    https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2020/1209/1183335-brexit/

    And once the derogation lapses, presumably chilled meats, sausages, mince and unfrozen prepared meals, which are will be prohibited and restricted from entering the EU the UK from the Republic.......unless if the scheme is running fine its all quietly forgotten about....
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,966
    Carnyx said:

    Ah, I'd read differently in a newspaper report - thanks.
    I suspect that the plans are pretty flexible at this stage until we see what happens. The reality has been that having an R rate under 1 and schools and Universities operating anything like normally has simply been incompatible.
  • tlg86 said:

    I'm genuinely shocked that this hasn't happened. It seems so blindingly obvious. I'd go as far as to say they should have shut the schools two weeks ago and said they can go back in mid-January or something.
    When the inquiry into the government's handling of the pandemic takes place, the Christmas hall pass will be up there with releasing Covid-19 patients back into care homes as avoidable disasters.
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589
    edited December 2020

    Wait until Bruno finds out who Her Majesty has honoured.

    Sir Robert Mugabe for starters.
    I’m happy to stake my flag on the hill of “no one should honour shitty dictators” and assume good faith that neither Carlotta nor Bruno was taking a europhobic pop at Macron.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,878
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,079
    No, it's time for our disingenuous Prime Minister and the wretched Conservative Party to "grow up".
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,129

    Wait until Bruno finds out who Her Majesty has honoured.

    Sir Robert Mugabe for starters.
    Ceaucescu as well.

    Plus Jimmy Saville and Margaret Hodge, of course.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,098

    I fear January/February is going to redefine "grim".
    So it means something more like "gay"?
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,878

    When the inquiry into the government's handling of the pandemic takes place, the Christmas hall pass will be up there with releasing Covid-19 patients back into care homes as avoidable disasters.
    The list will be so long that one more or less scarcely matters.
  • Wait until Bruno finds out who Her Majesty has honoured.

    Sir Robert Mugabe for starters.
    On the advice of her then Prime Minister John Major....in 1994.

    Who advised Macron to do it, and if it was such a great idea, why did the French not issue any photographs?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,966
    OnboardG1 said:

    I’d be keen. Maybe the SG could move the summer bank holidays to actual summer.
    How do they know which weekend that is going to be in advance?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,353

    When the inquiry into the government's handling of the pandemic takes place, the Christmas hall pass will be up there with releasing Covid-19 patients back into care homes as avoidable disasters.
    I really struggle to see the reason for it. So the people already against measures would call you a grinch (well, I've never heard abyone but an american use that expression though), so what? And maybe ignore restrictions, but most won't.
  • On the advice of her then Prime Minister John Major....in 1994.

    Who advised Macron to do it, and if it was such a great idea, why did the French not issue any photographs?
    As we saw with the prorogation crisis the Queen will do anything her PM tells her to do, including unlawful stuff, and we call ourselves a democracy.
  • kle4 said:

    I really struggle to see the reason for it. So the people already against measures would call you a grinch (well, I've never heard abyone but an american use that expression though), so what? And maybe ignore restrictions, but most won't.
    The only plausible reason I've heard is that the government thought people would meet up at Christmas no matter what the government said that this was their way of trying to control it some way.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,878

    This is a diabolically cynical suggestion but it madly could actually work.

    https://twitter.com/JonAskonas/status/1336690583444856834?s=19

    In this country it would be the Oxford vaccine for patriotic Tory voters, and Pfizer/BioNTech for the rest of us.

    Sounds like a brilliant idea.
  • tlg86 said:

    I'm genuinely shocked that this hasn't happened. It seems so blindingly obvious. I'd go as far as to say they should have shut the schools two weeks ago and said they can go back in mid-January or something.
    Trouble is that keeping schools open(ish) is about the only success the government can point to apart from buying lots of vaccines.
    At least one academy trust planned to close a week early and were told "not on your nelly" by the DfE.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,252

    As we saw with the prorogation crisis the Queen will do anything her PM tells her to do, including unlawful stuff, and we call ourselves a democracy.
    It was only judged unlawful by the Supreme Court. The Queens Bench (itself comprising a very strong bench for that ruling) had previously ruled it was legal.

    Who's a Queen to believe?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,667
    OnboardG1 said:

    That’s a reasonable position. I’m hoping more people align with it and Christmas isn’t a disaster.
    Absolutely. I've turned down two invitations already, with friendly regrets. If the vaccine hadn't been in sight, I might not have.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,353

    The only plausible reason I've heard is that the government thought people would meet up at Christmas no matter what the government said that this was their way of trying to control it some way.
    Essentially just giving up for a bit is not a way of controlling it. They could still have tried.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,353

    As we saw with the prorogation crisis the Queen will do anything her PM tells her to do, including unlawful stuff, and we call ourselves a democracy.
    Your attempts at royalist trolling are usually a bit too absurd to work as they are not believable, but I honestly cannot tell if you mean this one - surely if she does what the PM tells her to do it proves our calling ourselves a democracy is absolutely correct. And his decision to advise her to do it was found to be unlawful, so it all worked out.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,504

    Trouble is that keeping schools open(ish) is about the only success the government can point to apart from buying lots of vaccines.
    At least one academy trust planned to close a week early and were told "not on your nelly" by the DfE.
    I actually think opening schools and universities was a big mistake.
  • tlg86 said:

    I actually think opening schools and universities was a big mistake.
    Tell me about it.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,667

    I thought the "jolly careful" catchphrase was a good one. Corny but Christmas is always corny. Should be repeated more often until everyone is rolling their eyes at it (but the message has gotten through).
    Not strong enough and obscured by appearing to be a Boris jest. People will mingle while perhaps trying to remember to be careful, and then they'll have a glaass or two and... Like the earlier injunction to "be alert", it doesn't cause any change of action, unlike NOT getting together and risk killing each other.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,600
    edited December 2020

    As we saw with the prorogation crisis the Queen will do anything her PM tells her to do, including unlawful stuff, and we call ourselves a democracy.
    Our constitution is based on Crown in Parliament, the Crown will never overturn a bill passed by both Houses of Parliament but otherwise the PM has full prerogative powers over the rest as the Crown's chief minister
  • HYUFD said:

    Our constitution is based on Crown in Parliament, the Crown will never overturn a bill passed by both Houses of Parliament but otherwise the PM has full prerogative powers over the rest as the Crown's chief minister
    So if Parliament passed a modern day Edict of Expulsion the Queen would pass it?
  • tlg86 said:

    I actually think opening schools and universities was a big mistake.
    Universities, yes. Not schools.
  • Universities, yes. Not schools.
    Indeed and universities could have been opened "remotely".
  • MrEd said:

    Which sounds like a fair description. However, other states have joined in, which may (or may not) have an influence. I'd be interested to see what happens if someone like Florida joined.
    It doesn't matter one tiny bit who joins and who doesn't. The issue is whether there is any legal weight at all in the substantive arguments. Clue - there isn't.

    As throughout this process, you just don't understand how the law works. You think it's all about what the President tweets and who signs up to what lawsuit, but it's all about the case being made.

    And, here, the immovable object is that Trump has always been demanding many thousands of unarguably lawful ballots to be thrown out because a handful of crazies, alcoholic ex-strippers, and perhaps even one or two concerned citizens claim a minor irregularity here and there (which of course there are in a 150 million vote election). Now that's moved to claiming those votes should be thrown out because, whilst cast in good faith, Texas have had a little think about it and they'd not have run their election exactly like Michigan. Whether the AG of Florida, or Kanye, or the Pope, or whoever sign up to that tosh means sod all - the whole tragic enterprise has always been going nowhere.
  • I have a question about this chart... doesn't this mean not only is Pfizer jab highly effective after a week after a single jab, but weren't a significant number of the positives in the vaccine group already positive when they actually go their jab? Were they not testing before you got injected? Or is there some sort of adjustment in their data?

    https://twitter.com/deniswirtz/status/1336368646768259082?s=19
  • I don't think next year will be that bad for deaths - check out the impact Pfizer has:

    https://twitter.com/NewStatesman/status/1336683275209863168?s=19
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,353
    edited December 2020

    So if Parliament passed a modern day Edict of Expulsion the Queen would pass it?
    Wouldn't matter if she did or not. The second a monarch doesn't given royal assent parliament would either get rid of the monarchy or pass a rule that worked around it, like Belgium did according to wikipedia.

    There's many reasons to have a republic - pretending to be mad that the monarch doesn't exercise actual power to overrule the democratic representatives (even doing something awful) is not one of them. At least not one someone could claim with a straight face. "It's crazy we have a monarch in a democratic society; and did you hear how they didn't go against the democratic parliament?"
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,473

    Universities, yes. Not schools.
    We’ve coped pretty well at mine, no huge outbreaks, mix of in person and remote teaching, and kept clinical (pharmacy) and science practicals going. I’ve even managed to get useful results from undergrad projects. So not impossible. Clearly the advent of the vaccine changes things, and if we had known for sure it would be here when it was, different choices might have been better. But we didn’t know that vaccines would work and be available so soon, so had to plan for life with the virus.
  • Universities, yes. Not schools.
    It's one thing to re-open (or more accurately, widen the opening) of schools, and a good thing. Get everyone in (say) 1 day a week- so that nobody falls off the radar as happened in spring. Get key kids in more than that- up to full time for some. But business as usual was a foreseeable mistake.

    But acknowledge that running at full capacity does increase transmission in the community and was always likely to. And that schools simply don't have to spare capacity of people, energy or money to cope- the schools I know have had multiple part-closures and the teachers are running on fumes. On top of which, it seems set to get worse before it gets better.

    But arrogant wishful thinking is this government's signature move.
  • Interesting that Lombardy and New York (state) hit hard in the second wave, London seems to have escaped.

    https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1336735294851264513?s=19
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,098

    I have a question about this chart... doesn't this mean not only is Pfizer jab highly effective after a week after a single jab, but weren't a significant number of the positives in the vaccine group already positive when they actually go their jab? Were they not testing before you got injected? Or is there some sort of adjustment in their data?

    https://twitter.com/deniswirtz/status/1336368646768259082?s=19

    So long as the placebo group was treated the same as the vaccine group is the main thing
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,840
    edited December 2020

    Indeed and universities could have been opened "remotely".
    No. After six months on my sofa, it was great to see Fox jr2 getting back on with life in London. Obviously not the full Monty, but he is studying hard, and socialising in a responsible way, rather than just drifting.

    Same with schools. Life cannot be on hold forever.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,473

    Indeed and universities could have been opened "remotely".
    Not for everything. Some courses need practical time or clinical training.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,600
    edited December 2020

    So if Parliament passed a modern day Edict of Expulsion the Queen would pass it?
    Under our constitutional monarchy yes, in that case the voters would clearly have elected a Corbynite or latter day Mosley led Parliament with bells on but that is democracy. You would just try and elect a sensible Parliament the next time, the one thing she would likely do is refuse to extend a Parliament beyond 5 years without a general election beforehand
  • Interesting that Lombardy and New York (state) hit hard in the second wave, London seems to have escaped.

    https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1336735294851264513?s=19

    Maybe, I hope I'm wrong, I saw some stats earlier which showed London really was heading for Tier 3.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,353
    Not that there's there nothing to it, but wasn't expecting this story quite so soon.

    Rich countries are hoarding doses of Covid vaccines and people living in poor countries are set to miss out, a coalition of campaigning bodies warns

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55229894
  • Maybe, I hope I'm wrong, I saw some stats earlier which showed London really was heading for Tier 3.
    I should have prefaced with so far. I haven't checked the past couple of weeks, so you might be right that the situation is heading the wrong direction.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 18,473

    I have a question about this chart... doesn't this mean not only is Pfizer jab highly effective after a week after a single jab, but weren't a significant number of the positives in the vaccine group already positive when they actually go their jab? Were they not testing before you got injected? Or is there some sort of adjustment in their data?

    https://twitter.com/deniswirtz/status/1336368646768259082?s=19

    I think single dose for the Pfizer jab will make a lot of people immune to a large extent, and this will start to impact on cases some time in mid to late jan.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,009
    wonder who used his phone to send all those whatsapp messages
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 50,840

    Interesting that Lombardy and New York (state) hit hard in the second wave, London seems to have escaped.

    ://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1336735294851264513?s=19

    Don't speak too soon 🤞
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,098
    MrEd said:

    Which sounds like a fair description. However, other states have joined in, which may (or may not) have an influence. I'd be interested to see what happens if someone like Florida joined.
    If you were an ambitious Secretary of State in Wyoming or Florida or wherever, why wouldn't you sign up?
  • kle4 said:

    Not that there's there nothing to it, but wasn't expecting this story quite so soon.

    Rich countries are hoarding doses of Covid vaccines and people living in poor countries are set to miss out, a coalition of campaigning bodies warns

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55229894

    I'll try and find the link but I did read that some of the tourist destination poor countries are offering silly money for the vaccine so as a vaccinated country holidaymakers will pile back.
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