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Interesting take from Paul Goodman
http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2014/06/camerons-real-target-neither-gove-nor-may-but-ministers-special-advisers.html0 -
Salutations, Comrade Chancellor!AveryLP said:
It is not just the doubt over Miliband's leadership, but, after Newark, the electorate has good cause to wonder whether Labour will turn up at the contest in 2015.
Perhaps Rachel Reeves can turn things around and energise the party? She seems to be trying.
Well, she certainly "energises" me!
(did I just press 'send'???)0 -
I agree. The real world is a lot more complicated. Self-indulgent politicking on the left and right is moronic.HurstLlama said:I am obliged to a Pat Condell and Brian Corbett (late gent of this Parish) for the following, which made me smile:
(Southam Observer look away now)
"Progressive” leftism is an indulgence of smug middle class hypocrites who have mistaken their ivory tower for the high moral ground.
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Yes i saw him interviewed on that. Passionate and articulate. Don't see that when he talks about edu.foxinsoxuk said:Perhaps Tristams heart lies elsewhere, he has just launched a new book.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ten-Cities-that-Made-Empire/dp/184614325X/ref=la_B001JS08HC_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1402218702&sr=1-1
It sounds rather more interesting than his ideas for education.Carola said:
Yep. Haven't rated him from the start - had a few heated debates about that early on. Now most are resigned to the fact that he doesn't know what he's talking about in some areas, and 'Gove-lite' in others.Morris_Dancer said:Miss Carola, Hunt as in Tristram? One would've thought education would be natural territory for him.
His bumbling response to questions was embarrassing.0 -
If anyone can prise Morris Dancer away from God's own country of Yorkshire, it will be a date with a Russian enormo-Haddock.
http://bit.ly/1hHa1yhfoxinsoxuk said:@ALP and other russophiles:
http://runt-of-the-web.com/russian-dating-site-photos
Comments please!0 -
Yep keep falling into that trap. Only just seen this on the *other* Hunt as happens. Tim must have exploded:Charles said:
Can you use first names as well? My first thought, was "of course the SoS for Health isn't on top of the ed brief"....Carola said:I was at the Policy Exchange gig yesterday. It was clear that both speeches were aimed at the msm, not the audience - most of whom would know that a lot of that claims Gove spouted were twaddle.
Hunt was dreadful - claiming 'teachers' were against the DfE policies that they're most in favour of. He really isn't on top of the ed brief. I don't think his heart's in it tbh. He's far more fluent/convincing on other areas.
The start of the day was:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Johnston_(Colorado_legislator)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/alternativemedicine/10739658/Has-the-Minister-for-Magic-Jeremy-Hunt-gone-too-far.html
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O/T Apols if posted before. Paddy Power and another controversial publicity stunt
https://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/blogs/the-rio-report/paddy-power-under-fire-world-cup-publicity-stunt-081653782.html0 -
Totally Socialist Echo posting left wing rubbish...
Main story is Ed is a week behind in the news, shush no one tell him the Newark results...0 -
My choice is posing in front of Grandma. I think it says "I am a bit of a goer, yet with family values at heart."AveryLP said:
If anyone can prise Morris Dancer away from God's own country of Yorkshire, it will be a date with a Russian enormo-Haddock.
http://bit.ly/1hHa1yhfoxinsoxuk said:@ALP and other russophiles:
http://runt-of-the-web.com/russian-dating-site-photos
Comments please!0 -
There's nothing nostalgic about stating there is much more that unites the English and Scots (and the Welsh and the Northern Irish) than divides them. Their views on everything from the NHS through the EU to nationalisation of the railways are pretty much the same, for example. Nationalists hate it, I know, but facts is facts.Theuniondivvie said:
Nostalgic hankering after a 'country' that started to dematerialise 50 years ago? Sounds like you've plenty in common with a certain political party.SouthamObserver said:@Stuart_Dickson - I am all for self government. I am opposed to narrow-minded nationalism. The kind that seeks to suggest that there are fundamental differences between people who have lived together, worked together, laughed together, played together and developed all kinds of other deep bonds over the course of hundreds of years. That's not progressive, it's reactionary. SNP nationalism is the same as UKIP nationalism: if we get rid of that other, that foreign thing, that holds us back then everything will be so much better. The English are Tories, they vote UKIP, they feed the Westminster beast that oppresses us, says the SNP. And that leads to the fibs about things such as EU membership and the obfuscation over the implications of a shared currency. It's not about a better Scotland or UK for nationalists, it's about a separate one. Not my cup of rosie, I'm afraid.
Nice to see the PB Tories have opened up a Partido Popular chapter though.
Please send a hug and kiss to Mick for me.
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Cameron missed a chance to make sure the Tories got re-elected. He should have showed decisive leadership.
Sack both of them. The party would have supported him because he got rid of two ferrets fighting in a sack.
Immediately, tell the country. He is tough, he is decisive. People like "tough" PM's
Instead he proved himself to be a weakling. Poor Fiona lost her job instead. Until yesterday the public did not even know her !0 -
OT EU The Sun violating Godwin's Law with a thing about Juncker's family's Nazi Links. (His father was conscripted into the Germany army and made to fight in Russia, apparently.)
If he doesn't feel like keeping his head down at this point it might not be a bad jumping-off point for a Big Speech...0 -
After Brown's cabinet, you are at least very experienced on such matters...surbiton said:Cameron missed a chance to make sure the Tories got re-elected. He should have showed decisive leadership.
Sack both of them. The party would have supported him because he got rid of two ferrets fighting in a sack.
Immediately, tell the country. He is tough, he is decisive. People like "tough" PM's
Instead he proved himself to be a weakling. Poor Fiona lost her job instead. Until yesterday the public did not even know her !0 -
He is getting pressure from Her Indoors !Carola said:
Yep keep falling into that trap. Only just seen this on the *other* Hunt as happens. Tim must have exploded:Charles said:
Can you use first names as well? My first thought, was "of course the SoS for Health isn't on top of the ed brief"....Carola said:I was at the Policy Exchange gig yesterday. It was clear that both speeches were aimed at the msm, not the audience - most of whom would know that a lot of that claims Gove spouted were twaddle.
Hunt was dreadful - claiming 'teachers' were against the DfE policies that they're most in favour of. He really isn't on top of the ed brief. I don't think his heart's in it tbh. He's far more fluent/convincing on other areas.
The start of the day was:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Johnston_(Colorado_legislator)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/alternativemedicine/10739658/Has-the-Minister-for-Magic-Jeremy-Hunt-gone-too-far.html0 -
No, a massacre would be the LibDems' European Election performance - or is that a decimation?John_M said:
Where would the Internet be without hyperbole? I'm surprised they didn't go for 'massacre'. It's a shame as I have a modicum of respect for both Gove and May, loathsome urban politicos as they undoubtedly are.SimonStClare said:
“BLOODBATH”…! – a tad hyperbolic me thinks, I thought a lowly spad got fired?
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That's precisely the problem. Resignations are boring. The public will always back you if you sack any known culprit. If one is a friend, it is a bonus.Scrapheap_as_was said:
After Brown's cabinet, you are at least very experienced on such matters...surbiton said:Cameron missed a chance to make sure the Tories got re-elected. He should have showed decisive leadership.
Sack both of them. The party would have supported him because he got rid of two ferrets fighting in a sack.
Immediately, tell the country. He is tough, he is decisive. People like "tough" PM's
Instead he proved himself to be a weakling. Poor Fiona lost her job instead. Until yesterday the public did not even know her !
This infighting is nasty ! Imagine actually putting up the infamous letter from May to Gove on the official Home Office website !
Ouch !!0 -
From the man who spent days wibbling about not falling into the Tory trap of actually putting up a fight in Newark, risible.surbiton said:Cameron missed a chance to make sure the Tories got re-elected. He should have showed decisive leadership.
Sack both of them. The party would have supported him because he got rid of two ferrets fighting in a sack.
Immediately, tell the country. He is tough, he is decisive. People like "tough" PM's
Instead he proved himself to be a weakling. Poor Fiona lost her job instead. Until yesterday the public did not even know her !
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I'm still waiting for the so-called "Sun" to pinch the Sunil on Sunday's "Stick it up your Juncker!" headlineedmundintokyo said:OT EU The Sun violating Godwin's Law with a thing about Juncker's family's Nazi Links. (His father was conscripted into the Germany army and made to fight in Russia, apparently.)
If he doesn't feel like keeping his head down at this point it might not be a bad jumping-off point for a Big Speech...
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ALL the polls have Labour leaning samples so far as I can work out. The pollsters then have to adjust because Labour voters are famously lazy and don't get out of bed come vote day. If Labour actually got the votes people said they were going to give them they'd be heading for a landslide. That won't happenAveryLP said:Good morning, Nick.
Nowadays any national poll showing a Labour lead, even a minuscule one, is likely to have been caused by a Labour-leaning sample.
It is not just the doubt over Miliband's leadership, but, after Newark, the electorate has good cause to wonder whether Labour will turn up at the contest in 2015.
Perhaps Rachel Reeves can turn things around and energise the party? She seems to be trying.NickPalmer said:YG seems to show no noticeable impact of Newark whatever, which was also my doorstep impression yesterday. A small note of caution, though: the poll shows a sharp dip in Cameron's popularity (-5 net) and rise in Milibands (+5), which could be something genuine or could also show a Labour-leaning sample. Worth waiting for a few more polls before we jump to conclusions.
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http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/does-the-result-in-newark-confirm-ed-miliband-as-a-neil-kinnock-9506732.html
If the recent narrowing – and brief vanishing – of Labour's poll lead was linked to people focusing on an actual voting decision in actual elections, Miliband ought to be very worried. Kinnock welcomed Miliband's election as leader, saying, "We've got our party back." But in Miliband has the party got its Kinnock back?0 -
EurosSouthamObserver said:
There's nothing nostalgic about stating there is much more that unites the English and Scots (and the Welsh and the Northern Irish) than divides them. Their views on everything from the NHS through the EU to nationalisation of the railways are pretty much the same
Scotland UKIP - 10%
London UKIP - 17%
rUK UKIP - 32%
France FN - 25%
Facts are indeed facts.
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Decimation is a mere 1 in 10. I think the Lib Dems would have been delighted to have escaped with a decimation.Sunil_Prasannan said:John_M said:
No, a massacre would be the LibDems' European Election performance - or is that a decimation?
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I don't think you need to intellectualise your choice, Dr. Sox!
But it is very typical. The dreary soviet decor of a flat in mutliple occupation; playing with a new Western toy, and, the shameless innocence of the demi-clad.
The problem is that it is all now being spoilt by Western market driven consumerism. Mixed in with the 'homely' and eccentric will be a bunch of professional date seekers whose photos will have been stolen from the new burgeoning local porn industry. All Empire gilt furnishing and faux leopardskin bed coverings.
The East really needs saving. We should march on Moscow immediately in the cause of good taste.foxinsoxuk said:My choice is posing in front of Grandma. I think it says "I am a bit of a goer, yet with family values at heart."
AveryLP said:If anyone can prise Morris Dancer away from God's own country of Yorkshire, it will be a date with a Russian enormo-Haddock.
http://bit.ly/1hHa1yhfoxinsoxuk said:@ALP and other russophiles:
http://runt-of-the-web.com/russian-dating-site-photos
Comments please!0 -
You haven't been noticing the polls lately. The gap is widening. Newark - a safe Tory seat - made no difference.TGOHF said:http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/does-the-result-in-newark-confirm-ed-miliband-as-a-neil-kinnock-9506732.html
If the recent narrowing – and brief vanishing – of Labour's poll lead was linked to people focusing on an actual voting decision in actual elections, Miliband ought to be very worried. Kinnock welcomed Miliband's election as leader, saying, "We've got our party back." But in Miliband has the party got its Kinnock back?
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So if you add on the SNP total, Scotland has the most nationalist voters.Theuniondivvie said:
EurosSouthamObserver said:
There's nothing nostalgic about stating there is much more that unites the English and Scots (and the Welsh and the Northern Irish) than divides them. Their views on everything from the NHS through the EU to nationalisation of the railways are pretty much the same
Scotland UKIP - 10%
London UKIP - 17%
rUK UKIP - 32%
France FN - 25%
Facts are indeed facts.0 -
Real votes bad , polls good ?surbiton said:
You haven't been noticing the polls lately. The gap is widening. Newark - a safe Tory seat - made no difference.TGOHF said:http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/does-the-result-in-newark-confirm-ed-miliband-as-a-neil-kinnock-9506732.html
If the recent narrowing – and brief vanishing – of Labour's poll lead was linked to people focusing on an actual voting decision in actual elections, Miliband ought to be very worried. Kinnock welcomed Miliband's election as leader, saying, "We've got our party back." But in Miliband has the party got its Kinnock back?
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You don't understand. The SNP aren't like other nationalist parties, they're superior because they're Scottish.TGOHF said:
So if you add on the SNP total, Scotland has the most nationalist voters.Theuniondivvie said:
EurosSouthamObserver said:
There's nothing nostalgic about stating there is much more that unites the English and Scots (and the Welsh and the Northern Irish) than divides them. Their views on everything from the NHS through the EU to nationalisation of the railways are pretty much the same
Scotland UKIP - 10%
London UKIP - 17%
rUK UKIP - 32%
France FN - 25%
Facts are indeed facts.
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It will have to wait, Comrade.
I believe tomorrow's headline, following the manoeuvring of a "Senior Labour Cabinet Minister, will be:
"Un rêve, une reeve"Sunil_Prasannan said:
I'm still waiting for the so-called "Sun" to pinch the Sunil on Sunday's "Stick it up your Juncker!" headlineedmundintokyo said:OT EU The Sun violating Godwin's Law with a thing about Juncker's family's Nazi Links. (His father was conscripted into the Germany army and made to fight in Russia, apparently.)
If he doesn't feel like keeping his head down at this point it might not be a bad jumping-off point for a Big Speech...0 -
Are you referring to the 2% swing from the Tories to Labour in Newark ? Based on Newark swings, Labour becomes the largest party.TGOHF said:
Real votes bad , polls good ?surbiton said:
You haven't been noticing the polls lately. The gap is widening. Newark - a safe Tory seat - made no difference.TGOHF said:http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/does-the-result-in-newark-confirm-ed-miliband-as-a-neil-kinnock-9506732.html
If the recent narrowing – and brief vanishing – of Labour's poll lead was linked to people focusing on an actual voting decision in actual elections, Miliband ought to be very worried. Kinnock welcomed Miliband's election as leader, saying, "We've got our party back." But in Miliband has the party got its Kinnock back?
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Always good to have an alternative view on the economy.
"One obvious flaw with Osborne's narrative is that the government doesn't really have a long term plan. It used to have a long-term plan based around export drives, investment and a new model of growth that did not rely on consumer debt. Now it has a short-term plan to keep the economy going at full throttle until polling day."
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/economics-blog/2014/jun/08/george-osborne-economic-policy0 -
Nationalist votes in Scotland - 39%Theuniondivvie said:
EurosSouthamObserver said:
There's nothing nostalgic about stating there is much more that unites the English and Scots (and the Welsh and the Northern Irish) than divides them. Their views on everything from the NHS through the EU to nationalisation of the railways are pretty much the same
Scotland UKIP - 10%
London UKIP - 17%
rUK UKIP - 32%
France FN - 25%
Facts are indeed facts.
Nationalist votes in London - 17%
As I said yesterday, there's a lot more nationalism in Scotland. And slightly more than there is in rUK - but not by much. Quite a bit more than in France though.
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Labour a distant 3rd on 17%. Worlds smallest comfort blanket ?surbiton said:
Are you referring to the 2% swing from the Tories to Labour in Newark ? Based on Newark swings, Labour becomes the largest party.TGOHF said:
Real votes bad , polls good ?surbiton said:
You haven't been noticing the polls lately. The gap is widening. Newark - a safe Tory seat - made no difference.TGOHF said:http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/does-the-result-in-newark-confirm-ed-miliband-as-a-neil-kinnock-9506732.html
If the recent narrowing – and brief vanishing – of Labour's poll lead was linked to people focusing on an actual voting decision in actual elections, Miliband ought to be very worried. Kinnock welcomed Miliband's election as leader, saying, "We've got our party back." But in Miliband has the party got its Kinnock back?0 -
According to a poll in today's El Pais over 60% of Spaniards would like a referendum on whether Spain should remain a monarchy.0
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Anyone know what the Yougov was today? It's for a tired squirrel that keeps asking me.0
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"Je rêve de Reeves"AveryLP said:It will have to wait, Comrade.
I believe tomorrow's headline, following the manoeuvring of a "Senior Labour Cabinet Minister, will be:
"Un rêve, une reeve"Sunil_Prasannan said:
I'm still waiting for the so-called "Sun" to pinch the Sunil on Sunday's "Stick it up your Juncker!" headlineedmundintokyo said:OT EU The Sun violating Godwin's Law with a thing about Juncker's family's Nazi Links. (His father was conscripted into the Germany army and made to fight in Russia, apparently.)
If he doesn't feel like keeping his head down at this point it might not be a bad jumping-off point for a Big Speech...
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How did the Breton and Corsican nationalists do (If at all)?SouthamObserver said:
Nationalist votes in Scotland - 39%Theuniondivvie said:
EurosSouthamObserver said:
There's nothing nostalgic about stating there is much more that unites the English and Scots (and the Welsh and the Northern Irish) than divides them. Their views on everything from the NHS through the EU to nationalisation of the railways are pretty much the same
Scotland UKIP - 10%
London UKIP - 17%
rUK UKIP - 32%
France FN - 25%
Facts are indeed facts.
Nationalist votes in London - 17%
As I said yesterday, there's a lot more nationalism in Scotland. And slightly more than there is in rUK - but not by much. Quite a bit more than in France though.
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To me it shows the continuity of Russian life, with the crushing boredom of Chekovs Three Sisters, or the licentious materialism of Grushenka.
I think we Brits are very much like the Russians, we are the bookends of Europe. Each part of Europe yet apart from it. Jealous of European civilisation and manners, yet also repelled by them. We can never be the good European Burghers that Junckers would so like, we are simply too coarse.AveryLP said:I don't think you need to intellectualise your choice, Dr. Sox!
But it is very typical. The dreary soviet decor of a flat in mutliple occupation; playing with a new Western toy, and, the shameless innocence of the demi-clad.
The problem is that it is all now being spoilt by Western market driven consumerism. Mixed in with the 'homely' and eccentric will be a bunch of professional date seekers whose photos will have been stolen from the new burgeoning local porn industry. All Empire gilt furnishing and faux leopardskin bed coverings.
The East really needs saving. We should march on Moscow immediately in the cause of good taste.foxinsoxuk said:My choice is posing in front of Grandma. I think it says "I am a bit of a goer, yet with family values at heart."
AveryLP said:If anyone can prise Morris Dancer away from God's own country of Yorkshire, it will be a date with a Russian enormo-Haddock.
http://bit.ly/1hHa1yhfoxinsoxuk said:@ALP and other russophiles:
http://runt-of-the-web.com/russian-dating-site-photos
Comments please!0 -
@YouGov: Update: Labour lead at 4 - Latest YouGov / Sunday Times results 6th June - Con 33%, Lab 37%, LD 7%, UKIP 14%; APP -27 http://t.co/e2kYz9Qi1zcompouter2 said:Anyone know what the Yougov was today? It's for a tired squirrel that keeps asking me.
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He's not taken it well.ToryJim said:
@YouGov: Update: Labour lead at 4 - Latest YouGov / Sunday Times results 6th June - Con 33%, Lab 37%, LD 7%, UKIP 14%; APP -27 http://t.co/e2kYz9Qi1zcompouter2 said:Anyone know what the Yougov was today? It's for a tired squirrel that keeps asking me.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_zABxJjGIDkU/SjVB15WaA6I/AAAAAAAAAno/X-yok7lOXPs/s1600-h/DeadSquirrel.jpg0 -
Lets hope Gove vs May doesnt overshadow the real story
"Pupils as young as six were taught to treat Western women as 'white prostitutes' by a school at the centre of the 'Trojan Horse' Islamist plot.
The shocking disclosure comes ahead of two bombshell reports into claims Muslim radicals conspired to infiltrate governing bodies of Birmingham schools.
A leaked copy of one report says teachers at Oldknow Academy told school inspectors they were alarmed by the use of terms such as ‘white prostitute’ and ‘hellfire’ in school assemblies, and that non-Muslim teachers were banned from being present."
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2651700/Hellfire-Muslim-teachers-Trojan-Horse-school-warned-six-year-olds-white-prostitutes.html#ixzz342e9ZJoz
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
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The Sunil on Sunday has the following figures:ToryJim said:
@YouGov: Update: Labour lead at 4 - Latest YouGov / Sunday Times results 6th June - Con 33%, Lab 37%, LD 7%, UKIP 14%; APP -27 http://t.co/e2kYz9Qi1zcompouter2 said:Anyone know what the Yougov was today? It's for a tired squirrel that keeps asking me.
Tory/UKIP 47%
Progressives 44%
or, alternatively:
COA 40%
LAB 37%
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Why do supportes of parties that use terms such as "One Nation" think "Nationalist" is an insult?0
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Smarmy
A dreary and, in the main, inaccurate assessment of the economy by Larry Elliott.
Having a "long term plan" is not incompatible with having a "short term plan". On the contrary, the two tend to be mutually dependent. What is the point of having a long term plan if you don't know what to do tomorrow? And what is the point of acting tomorrow if you don't know where you going?
That said, GO has most definitely shaped the Treasury's management of the economy to align with electoral deadlines. It is why the post of Chancellor is generally given to a politician rather than an economist.
Of course, if you give it to a poor politician with little grasp of economic realities then you end your government in a deep recession after inheriting a stable and growing economy. The reason why, whoever forms a government in 2015, it won't be Gordon Brown.Smarmeron said:Always good to have an alternative view on the economy.
"One obvious flaw with Osborne's narrative is that the government doesn't really have a long term plan. It used to have a long-term plan based around export drives, investment and a new model of growth that did not rely on consumer debt. Now it has a short-term plan to keep the economy going at full throttle until polling day."
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/economics-blog/2014/jun/08/george-osborne-economic-policy0 -
SouthamObserver said:
Nationalist votes in Scotland - 39%Theuniondivvie said:
EurosSouthamObserver said:
There's nothing nostalgic about stating there is much more that unites the English and Scots (and the Welsh and the Northern Irish) than divides them. Their views on everything from the NHS through the EU to nationalisation of the railways are pretty much the same
Scotland UKIP - 10%
London UKIP - 17%
rUK UKIP - 32%
France FN - 25%
Facts are indeed facts.
Nationalist votes in London - 17%
As I said yesterday, there's a lot more nationalism in Scotland. And slightly more than there is in rUK - but not by much. Quite a bit more than in France though.
Pretendy lefties like SO love stuff like this:isam said:Why do supportes of parties that use terms such as "One Nation" think "Nationalist" is an insult?
http://tinyurl.com/nsep5ro
and this:
http://tinyurl.com/pjgl35p
and this:
http://tinyurl.com/puztdp6
They just hate calling it nationalism.
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Is Basil a former partner of Nige's, 'pouter?
A good re-entry photo though.
After Newark, it must have taken some courage to return. Even Mark Senior took a week off.compouter2 said:
He's not taken it well.ToryJim said:
@YouGov: Update: Labour lead at 4 - Latest YouGov / Sunday Times results 6th June - Con 33%, Lab 37%, LD 7%, UKIP 14%; APP -27 http://t.co/e2kYz9Qi1zcompouter2 said:Anyone know what the Yougov was today? It's for a tired squirrel that keeps asking me.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_zABxJjGIDkU/SjVB15WaA6I/AAAAAAAAAno/X-yok7lOXPs/s1600-h/DeadSquirrel.jpg0 -
How long will consistent labour leads have to continue before we hear end of this delusional tea-leaf reading 'crossover' nonsense (no, one or two rogue polls out of hundreds don't count)? Conference season? New year? May 1st 2015?0
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I don't think nationalist is an insult. It's just a way of seeing the world that I do not share and do not particularly like.isam said:Why do supportes of parties that use terms such as "One Nation" think "Nationalist" is an insult?
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I have absolutely no problem with patriotism of any kind.Theuniondivvie said:SouthamObserver said:
Nationalist votes in Scotland - 39%Theuniondivvie said:
EurosSouthamObserver said:
There's nothing nostalgic about stating there is much more that unites the English and Scots (and the Welsh and the Northern Irish) than divides them. Their views on everything from the NHS through the EU to nationalisation of the railways are pretty much the same
Scotland UKIP - 10%
London UKIP - 17%
rUK UKIP - 32%
France FN - 25%
Facts are indeed facts.
Nationalist votes in London - 17%
As I said yesterday, there's a lot more nationalism in Scotland. And slightly more than there is in rUK - but not by much. Quite a bit more than in France though.
Pretendy lefties like SO love stuff like this:isam said:Why do supportes of parties that use terms such as "One Nation" think "Nationalist" is an insult?
http://tinyurl.com/nsep5ro
and this:
http://tinyurl.com/pjgl35p
and this:
http://tinyurl.com/puztdp6
They just hate calling it nationalism.
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" Jealous of European civilisation and manners" Really? You speak for yourself.foxinsoxuk said:To me it shows the continuity of Russian life, with the crushing boredom of Chekovs Three Sisters, or the licentious materialism of Grushenka.
I think we Brits are very much like the Russians, we are the bookends of Europe. Each part of Europe yet apart from it. Jealous of European civilisation and manners, yet also repelled by them. We can never be the good European Burghers that Junckers would so like, we are simply too coarse.AveryLP said:I don't think you need to intellectualise your choice, Dr. Sox!
But it is very typical. The dreary soviet decor of a flat in mutliple occupation; playing with a new Western toy, and, the shameless innocence of the demi-clad.
The problem is that it is all now being spoilt by Western market driven consumerism. Mixed in with the 'homely' and eccentric will be a bunch of professional date seekers whose photos will have been stolen from the new burgeoning local porn industry. All Empire gilt furnishing and faux leopardskin bed coverings.
The East really needs saving. We should march on Moscow immediately in the cause of good taste.foxinsoxuk said:My choice is posing in front of Grandma. I think it says "I am a bit of a goer, yet with family values at heart."
AveryLP said:If anyone can prise Morris Dancer away from God's own country of Yorkshire, it will be a date with a Russian enormo-Haddock.
http://bit.ly/1hHa1yhfoxinsoxuk said:@ALP and other russophiles:
http://runt-of-the-web.com/russian-dating-site-photos
Comments please!
Of course, the Brits are different from mainland Europe, we have never been conquered by the French for a start. De Gaulle didn't want us in the European club for sound reasons. Having lived here for a few years, he knew we didn't and would never fit in. Our whole outlook from the relationship of the individual to the state, legal system, to our whole world view was just too different. De Gaulle was correct, we really don't belong. Having the UK in the European Club is like me being a member of the Carlton Club (or Whites come to that), I just wouldn't fit and trying to force me to do so only causes unhappiness on both sides.
That is not to say our system of ideas is better or worse, nor that we can't be friends, good neighbours and cooperate when it is in out mutual interest to do so. Let us out of the EU and both sides will be happier and better off.0 -
You'd better have a word with those pesky dictionaries.SouthamObserver said:
I have absolutely no problem with patriotism of any kind.
noun
noun: nationalism
patriotic feeling, principles, or efforts.
"an early consciousness of nationalism and pride"
synonyms: patriotism, patriotic sentiment, allegiance/loyalty to one's country, loyalism
0 -
How does it differ from "One nation"?SouthamObserver said:
I don't think nationalist is an insult. It's just a way of seeing the world that I do not share and do not particularly like.isam said:Why do supportes of parties that use terms such as "One Nation" think "Nationalist" is an insult?
All parties claim to want to represent the whole country, but it seems to me that UKIP have a more evenly spread support across social class and regions than anyone else, and thats because they make no bones about putting our own nations people first.
Doing that is called xenophobic by others, but we elect politicans to look after our interests, not the rest of the worlds. Thats what their govts are for0 -
Welcome to PB, Mr. Wisemann.
And congratulations too in continuing the great PB tradition of adopting an ironic moniker.JWisemann said:How long will consistent labour leads have to continue before we hear end of this delusional tea-leaf reading 'crossover' nonsense (no, one or two rogue polls out of hundreds don't count)? Conference season? New year? May 1st 2015?
0 -
Orwell;Theuniondivvie said:
You'd better have a word with those pesky dictionaries.SouthamObserver said:
I have absolutely no problem with patriotism of any kind.
noun
noun: nationalism
patriotic feeling, principles, or efforts.
"an early consciousness of nationalism and pride"
synonyms: patriotism, patriotic sentiment, allegiance/loyalty to one's country, loyalism
" Nationalism is not to be confused with patriotism. Both words are normally used in so vague a way that any definition is liable to be challenged, but one must draw a distinction between them, since two different and even opposing ideas are involved. By ‘patriotism’ I mean devotion to a particular place and a particular way of life, which one believes to be the best in the world but has no wish to force on other people. Patriotism is of its nature defensive, both militarily and culturally. Nationalism, on the other hand, is inseparable from the desire for power. The abiding purpose of every nationalist is to secure more power and more prestige, not for himself but for the nation or other unit in which he has chosen to sink his own individuality. "0 -
Dear God, I am agreeing with you again, Comrade. Am I also a, "Pragmatic communist"? Its too much. Thank God its time to walk up to the Pub for noon opening.Smarmeron said:@AveryLP
You may well be right, I merely point out that Ozzie's "short term" plan looks a lot like Gordo's, and I wonder who will feel the "long term" pain.
Thanks all for another fine Sunday morning on PB.0 -
Indeed. According to SO and other adherents of Cameron's Little Helpers:Theuniondivvie said:SouthamObserver said:
Nationalist votes in Scotland - 39%Theuniondivvie said:
EurosSouthamObserver said:
There's nothing nostalgic about stating there is much more that unites the English and Scots (and the Welsh and the Northern Irish) than divides them. Their views on everything from the NHS through the EU to nationalisation of the railways are pretty much the same
Scotland UKIP - 10%
London UKIP - 17%
rUK UKIP - 32%
France FN - 25%
Facts are indeed facts.
Nationalist votes in London - 17%
As I said yesterday, there's a lot more nationalism in Scotland. And slightly more than there is in rUK - but not by much. Quite a bit more than in France though.
Pretendy lefties like SO love stuff like this:isam said:Why do supportes of parties that use terms such as "One Nation" think "Nationalist" is an insult?
http://tinyurl.com/nsep5ro
and this:
http://tinyurl.com/pjgl35p
and this:
http://tinyurl.com/puztdp6
They just hate calling it nationalism.
British nationalism = good
Scottish nationalism = bad0 -
I don't trust May at all. I would like to, but I don't. I think anyone who stands down the police during the London riots, and then attempts legislation to snoop on people's BBM messages using the riots as justification, has got serious questions to answer. Anyone who claims to be resisting the encroachment of the EU but introduces the European arrest warrant when she doesn't have to has got serious questions to answer.
In my opinion, they want an 'inner circle' person to be lined up if and when Cameron loses the election. Hague, Hammond, Osborne or May would do. Which is why it's imperative in my view that they don't.0 -
A perfect description of 'punch above our weight' British nationalism.MonikerDiCanio said:
Orwell;Theuniondivvie said:
You'd better have a word with those pesky dictionaries.SouthamObserver said:
I have absolutely no problem with patriotism of any kind.
noun
noun: nationalism
patriotic feeling, principles, or efforts.
"an early consciousness of nationalism and pride"
synonyms: patriotism, patriotic sentiment, allegiance/loyalty to one's country, loyalism
" The abiding purpose of every nationalist is to secure more power and more prestige, not for himself but for the nation or other unit in which he has chosen to sink his own individuality. "
0 -
Surbiton No it is not. Labour's lead was 6% on 5th June according to yougov, today it is 4% and the Tories up 2%. Only one of today's polling days was after the Newark result
http://yougov.co.uk/news/categories/politics/
http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_uploads/document/lwiuydgoju/YG-Archive-Pol-Sunday-Times-results-x140606.pdf.pdf0 -
SO But the new King has an approval rating of over 60%, so the monarchy should win0
-
I am with George Orwell on nationalism v patriotism:Theuniondivvie said:
You'd better have a word with those pesky dictionaries.SouthamObserver said:
I have absolutely no problem with patriotism of any kind.
noun
noun: nationalism
patriotic feeling, principles, or efforts.
"an early consciousness of nationalism and pride"
synonyms: patriotism, patriotic sentiment, allegiance/loyalty to one's country, loyalism
Nationalism is not to be confused with patriotism. Both words are normally used in so vague a way that any definition is liable to be challenged, but one must draw a distinction between them, since two different and even opposing ideas are involved. By ‘patriotism’ I mean devotion to a particular place and a particular way of life, which one believes to be the best in the world but has no wish to force on other people. Patriotism is of its nature defensive, both militarily and culturally. Nationalism, on the other hand, is inseparable from the desire for power. The abiding purpose of every nationalist is to secure more power and more prestige, not for himself but for the nation or other unit in which he has chosen to sink his own individuality.
http://orwell.ru/library/essays/nationalism/english/e_nat
0 -
Surbiton If you factor in Tory gains from the LDs based on the Newark swing I think the Tories could end up largest party0
-
isam said:
Lets hope Gove vs May doesnt overshadow the real story
"Pupils as young as six were taught to treat Western women as 'white prostitutes' by a school at the centre of the 'Trojan Horse' Islamist plot.
The shocking disclosure comes ahead of two bombshell reports into claims Muslim radicals conspired to infiltrate governing bodies of Birmingham schools.
A leaked copy of one report says teachers at Oldknow Academy told school inspectors they were alarmed by the use of terms such as ‘white prostitute’ and ‘hellfire’ in school assemblies, and that non-Muslim teachers were banned from being present."
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2651700/Hellfire-Muslim-teachers-Trojan-Horse-school-warned-six-year-olds-white-prostitutes.html#ixzz342e9ZJoz
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
"</blockquote
I'd be very sceptical re some of the stuff you're reading in the msm on this. Ofsted etc have already rolled way back on some of the initial claims, including some re the six schools in the eye of the storm. I suspect that the fallout could create further problems for Gove down the line. All out tomorrow afternoon, so best to see what happens from then.0 -
Orwell gets it right again. Those old Etonians know their stuff...MonikerDiCanio said:
Orwell;Theuniondivvie said:
You'd better have a word with those pesky dictionaries.SouthamObserver said:
I have absolutely no problem with patriotism of any kind.
noun
noun: nationalism
patriotic feeling, principles, or efforts.
"an early consciousness of nationalism and pride"
synonyms: patriotism, patriotic sentiment, allegiance/loyalty to one's country, loyalism
" Nationalism is not to be confused with patriotism. Both words are normally used in so vague a way that any definition is liable to be challenged, but one must draw a distinction between them, since two different and even opposing ideas are involved. By ‘patriotism’ I mean devotion to a particular place and a particular way of life, which one believes to be the best in the world but has no wish to force on other people. Patriotism is of its nature defensive, both militarily and culturally. Nationalism, on the other hand, is inseparable from the desire for power. The abiding purpose of every nationalist is to secure more power and more prestige, not for himself but for the nation or other unit in which he has chosen to sink his own individuality. "0 -
For me one of the fundamental traits of nationalism is the identification of enemies of the national interest/cause, and the advocacy of their removal. Patriots do not need enemies, nationalists do. For UKIP it's the EU, for the SNP it's Westminster, for Catalan nationalists it's Madrid, for Spanish nationalists it's Catalan and Basque nationalists, and so on.isam said:
How does it differ from "One nation"?SouthamObserver said:
I don't think nationalist is an insult. It's just a way of seeing the world that I do not share and do not particularly like.isam said:Why do supportes of parties that use terms such as "One Nation" think "Nationalist" is an insult?
All parties claim to want to represent the whole country, but it seems to me that UKIP have a more evenly spread support across social class and regions than anyone else, and thats because they make no bones about putting our own nations people first.
Doing that is called xenophobic by others, but we elect politicans to look after our interests, not the rest of the worlds. Thats what their govts are for.
0 -
Snigger.SouthamObserver said:
I am with George Orwell on nationalism v patriotism:Theuniondivvie said:
You'd better have a word with those pesky dictionaries.SouthamObserver said:
I have absolutely no problem with patriotism of any kind.
noun
noun: nationalism
patriotic feeling, principles, or efforts.
"an early consciousness of nationalism and pride"
synonyms: patriotism, patriotic sentiment, allegiance/loyalty to one's country, loyalism
Nationalism is not to be confused with patriotism. Both words are normally used in so vague a way that any definition is liable to be challenged, but one must draw a distinction between them, since two different and even opposing ideas are involved. By ‘patriotism’ I mean devotion to a particular place and a particular way of life, which one believes to be the best in the world but has no wish to force on other people. Patriotism is of its nature defensive, both militarily and culturally. Nationalism, on the other hand, is inseparable from the desire for power. The abiding purpose of every nationalist is to secure more power and more prestige, not for himself but for the nation or other unit in which he has chosen to sink his own individuality.
http://orwell.ru/library/essays/nationalism/english/e_nat
SO parroting Monica parroting Orwell. Bettertogether!
0 -
Best prices - Next UK GE - Vote Share Match Bet
Lib Dems 5/6 (Ladbrokes)
UKIP 5/4 (Hills)
I agree with Pulpstar: I'd like to know when the Green-LD match bet is coming out.0 -
Well we can all hide behind vague words that mean different things to different people or passive aggressive cowardice.
I am not patriotic in the sense of thinking England is better than anyone else just because its England, in any shape or form. But that doesnt mean that its people shouldnt expect their government to put their opinions and rights first. Thats what the government is elected to do.0 -
Nope, I dislike both varieties. I have absolutely no problem with British, English, Scottish, Welsh and Irish patriotism though. Waving a flag does not make you a nationalist.Stuart_Dickson said:
Indeed. According to SO and other adherents of Cameron's Little Helpers:Theuniondivvie said:SouthamObserver said:
Nationalist votes in Scotland - 39%Theuniondivvie said:
EurosSouthamObserver said:
There's nothing nostalgic about stating there is much more that unites the English and Scots (and the Welsh and the Northern Irish) than divides them. Their views on everything from the NHS through the EU to nationalisation of the railways are pretty much the same
Scotland UKIP - 10%
London UKIP - 17%
rUK UKIP - 32%
France FN - 25%
Facts are indeed facts.
Nationalist votes in London - 17%
As I said yesterday, there's a lot more nationalism in Scotland. And slightly more than there is in rUK - but not by much. Quite a bit more than in France though.
Pretendy lefties like SO love stuff like this:isam said:Why do supportes of parties that use terms such as "One Nation" think "Nationalist" is an insult?
http://tinyurl.com/nsep5ro
and this:
http://tinyurl.com/pjgl35p
and this:
http://tinyurl.com/puztdp6
They just hate calling it nationalism.
British nationalism = good
Scottish nationalism = bad
0 -
HurstLlama We are not at the heart of Europe, like the original core of France, the Benelux nations, Italy and West Germany. However what is clear is that those core members are also different from some members of the Eurozone like Spain and Greece, particularly Germany economically. The UK is closer to EU members on the outer fringe and often outside the Eurozone, like the Scandinavian and Eastern European nations (and in the case of Norway joining Switzerland outside the EU altogether). If Juncker withdraws and Dalia Grybauskaitė the president of Lithuania or Helle Thorning-Schmidt the Danish PM becomes the new EU Commission President as seems probable, the EU will be moving in the UK's direction
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/10882531/Jean-Claude-Juncker-to-withdraw-bid-to-lead-European-Commission-sources-say.html0 -
People have every right to expect that. And such expectations are not nationalist.isam said:Well we can all hide behind vague words that mean different things to different people or passive aggressive cowardice.
I am not patriotic in the sense of thinking England is better than anyone else just because its England, in any shape or form. But that doesnt mean that its people shouldnt expect their government to put their opinions and rights first. Thats what the government is elected to do.
0 -
Are you saying wanting to be an independent sovereign country is a negative trait? If Canada voted not to become part of America would that be Nationalist and therefore a bad thing?SouthamObserver said:
For me one of the fundamental traits of nationalism is the identification of enemies of the national interest/cause, and the advocacy of their removal. Patriots do not need enemies, nationalists do. For UKIP it's the EU, for the SNP it's Westminster, for Catalan nationalists it's Madrid, for Spanish nationalists it's Catalan and Basque nationalists, and so on.isam said:
How does it differ from "One nation"?SouthamObserver said:
I don't think nationalist is an insult. It's just a way of seeing the world that I do not share and do not particularly like.isam said:Why do supportes of parties that use terms such as "One Nation" think "Nationalist" is an insult?
All parties claim to want to represent the whole country, but it seems to me that UKIP have a more evenly spread support across social class and regions than anyone else, and thats because they make no bones about putting our own nations people first.
Doing that is called xenophobic by others, but we elect politicans to look after our interests, not the rest of the worlds. Thats what their govts are for.
Is what you really mean that if UKIP got us out of the EU, they would then turn on other parts of society as they need the fuel of an enemy to exist?0 -
I agree. This time.HYUFD said:SO But the new King has an approval rating of over 60%, so the monarchy should win
0 -
I put in the exact percentage changesinto UKPR swing model and got Labour largest party.HYUFD said:Surbiton If you factor in Tory gains from the LDs based on the Newark swing I think the Tories could end up largest party
However, I must admit that UKIP in the mid 20's will be different to high teens. I do not know of a swingometer which takes care of that.0 -
May stood down the police during the riots? Source please.Luckyguy1983 said:I don't trust May at all. I would like to, but I don't. I think anyone who stands down the police during the London riots, and then attempts legislation to snoop on people's BBM messages using the riots as justification, has got serious questions to answer. Anyone who claims to be resisting the encroachment of the EU but introduces the European arrest warrant when she doesn't have to has got serious questions to answer.
In my opinion, they want an 'inner circle' person to be lined up if and when Cameron loses the election. Hague, Hammond, Osborne or May would do. Which is why it's imperative in my view that they don't.
0 -
Theresa May and Boris clear favourites to succeed Cameron well ahead of Osborne and Gove according to yougov, Boris leading 25 to 19% overall, interesting May more popular with LDs, Boris with UKIP and Tories and the 2 tied with Labour voters
http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_uploads/document/lwiuydgoju/YG-Archive-Pol-Sunday-Times-results-x140606.pdf.pdf0 -
SO I think Juan Carlos stepped down at just the right time for his far more popular son. Interestingly here it is the reverse, the Queen is far more popular than Prince Charles, but William matches her popularity, so she will go on as long as she can to minimise Charles' reign and maximise William's0
-
Isam Quebec nationalism is certainly an issue in Canada0
-
Labour back at 37%. Happy days are here again !Sunil_Prasannan said:
The Sunil on Sunday has the following figures:ToryJim said:
@YouGov: Update: Labour lead at 4 - Latest YouGov / Sunday Times results 6th June - Con 33%, Lab 37%, LD 7%, UKIP 14%; APP -27 http://t.co/e2kYz9Qi1zcompouter2 said:Anyone know what the Yougov was today? It's for a tired squirrel that keeps asking me.
Tory/UKIP 47%
Progressives 44%
or, alternatively:
COA 40%
LAB 37%0 -
I believe that UKIP is a party that defines itself against a foreign enemy - the EU- and its fifth column - the metropolitan elite. So I think that should we withdraw from the EU and UKIP continues as a party beyond that there is every possibility that further enemies will be identified. They will no doubt be labelled as unBritish or anti-British, and accused of hating British culture and wanting to bring it down.isam said:
Are you saying wanting to be an independent sovereign country is a negative trait? If Canada voted not to become part of America would that be Nationalist and therefore a bad thing?SouthamObserver said:
For me one of the fundamental traits of nationalism is the identification of enemies of the national interest/cause, and the advocacy of their removal. Patriots do not need enemies, nationalists do. For UKIP it's the EU, for the SNP it's Westminster, for Catalan nationalists it's Madrid, for Spanish nationalists it's Catalan and Basque nationalists, and so on.isam said:
How does it differ from "One nation"?SouthamObserver said:
I don't think nationalist is an insult. It's just a way of seeing the world that I do not share and do not particularly like.isam said:Why do supportes of parties that use terms such as "One Nation" think "Nationalist" is an insult?
All parties claim to want to represent the whole country, but it seems to me that UKIP have a more evenly spread support across social class and regions than anyone else, and thats because they make no bones about putting our own nations people first.
Doing that is called xenophobic by others, but we elect politicans to look after our interests, not the rest of the worlds. Thats what their govts are for.
Is what you really mean that if UKIP got us out of the EU, they would then turn on other parts of society as they need the fuel of an enemy to exist?
That said, I do not believe that wanting to withdraw from the EU in and of itself makes you a nationalist. It's the case that you make for withdrawal that does that.
0 -
For 50 years people have wanted a curb on immigration. Almost every opinion poll shows this. Yet anyone that suggests doing something about it is smeared with words like "Nationalist"SouthamObserver said:
People have every right to expect that. And such expectations are not nationalist.isam said:Well we can all hide behind vague words that mean different things to different people or passive aggressive cowardice.
I am not patriotic in the sense of thinking England is better than anyone else just because its England, in any shape or form. But that doesnt mean that its people shouldnt expect their government to put their opinions and rights first. Thats what the government is elected to do.0 -
She "stood them down", ie ordered them off the streets? What are you talking about?Luckyguy1983 said:I don't trust May at all. I would like to, but I don't. I think anyone who stands down the police during the London riots
0 -
No, they're not.isam said:
For 50 years people have wanted a curb on immigration. Almost every opinion poll shows this. Yet anyone that suggests doing something about it is smeared with words like "Nationalist"SouthamObserver said:
People have every right to expect that. And such expectations are not nationalist.isam said:Well we can all hide behind vague words that mean different things to different people or passive aggressive cowardice.
I am not patriotic in the sense of thinking England is better than anyone else just because its England, in any shape or form. But that doesnt mean that its people shouldnt expect their government to put their opinions and rights first. Thats what the government is elected to do.
0 -
To qualify from Group D
Italy 4/9 (various)
England 4/7 (Betfair, Betdaq)
Uruguay 4/7 (Hills)
Costa Rica 12/1 (Betfair)0 -
Oh well, I think its best to say what you think, be true to yourself and let others waste time projecting their own definitions on you.SouthamObserver said:
I believe that UKIP is a party that defines itself against a foreign enemy - the EU- and its fifth column - the metropolitan elite. So I think that should we withdraw from the EU and UKIP continues as a party beyond that there is every possibility that further enemies will be identified. They will no doubt be labelled as unBritish or anti-British, and accused of hating British culture and wanting to bring it down.isam said:
Are you saying wanting to be an independent sovereign country is a negative trait? If Canada voted not to become part of America would that be Nationalist and therefore a bad thing?SouthamObserver said:
For me one of the fundamental traits of nationalism is the identification of enemies of the national interest/cause, and the advocacy of their removal. Patriots do not need enemies, nationalists do. For UKIP it's the EU, for the SNP it's Westminster, for Catalan nationalists it's Madrid, for Spanish nationalists it's Catalan and Basque nationalists, and so on.isam said:
How does it differ from "One nation"?SouthamObserver said:
I don't think nationalist is an insult. It's just a way of seeing the world that I do not share and do not particularly like.isam said:Why do supportes of parties that use terms such as "One Nation" think "Nationalist" is an insult?
All parties claim to want to represent the whole country, but it seems to me that UKIP have a more evenly spread support across social class and regions than anyone else, and thats because they make no bones about putting our own nations people first.
Doing that is called xenophobic by others, but we elect politicans to look after our interests, not the rest of the worlds. Thats what their govts are for.
Is what you really mean that if UKIP got us out of the EU, they would then turn on other parts of society as they need the fuel of an enemy to exist?
That said, I do not believe that wanting to withdraw from the EU in and of itself makes you a nationalist. It's the case that you make for withdrawal that does that.
No one has put the English working class first for generations, and its they who are adversely affected by the central tenet of EU membership, free movement of workers. Any party that puts that before its own people can call UKIP all the names they want, but they arent doing their job
0 -
Go on then give an example of someone who wanted a tangible curb on immigration who wasnt attacked as racist/natioonalist/xenophobicSouthamObserver said:
No, they're not.isam said:
For 50 years people have wanted a curb on immigration. Almost every opinion poll shows this. Yet anyone that suggests doing something about it is smeared with words like "Nationalist"SouthamObserver said:
People have every right to expect that. And such expectations are not nationalist.isam said:Well we can all hide behind vague words that mean different things to different people or passive aggressive cowardice.
I am not patriotic in the sense of thinking England is better than anyone else just because its England, in any shape or form. But that doesnt mean that its people shouldnt expect their government to put their opinions and rights first. Thats what the government is elected to do.0 -
As far as I can see all the major political parties support and advocate tangible curbs on immigration. And I agree that in the past the "racist" label was thrown around all too often as a tactic to shutdown debate about immigration. That was wrong and entirely counter-productive, which is one of the reasons why it does not happen very much anymore.isam said:
Go on then give an example of someone who wanted a tangible curb on immigration who wasnt attacked as racist/natioonalist/xenophobicSouthamObserver said:
No, they're not.isam said:
For 50 years people have wanted a curb on immigration. Almost every opinion poll shows this. Yet anyone that suggests doing something about it is smeared with words like "Nationalist"SouthamObserver said:
People have every right to expect that. And such expectations are not nationalist.isam said:Well we can all hide behind vague words that mean different things to different people or passive aggressive cowardice.
I am not patriotic in the sense of thinking England is better than anyone else just because its England, in any shape or form. But that doesnt mean that its people shouldnt expect their government to put their opinions and rights first. Thats what the government is elected to do.
0 -
I have drawn England in our pub sweepstakes. We are doomed.
Costa Rica looks like the value in that group. Italy are pisspoor too.Stuart_Dickson said:To qualify from Group D
Italy 4/9 (various)
England 4/7 (Betfair, Betdaq)
Uruguay 4/7 (Hills)
Costa Rica 12/1 (Betfair)0 -
But maybe ineffective ones in practiceSouthamObserver said:
As far as I can see all political parties support and advocate tangible curbs on immigration.isam said:
Go on then give an example of someone who wanted a tangible curb on immigration who wasnt attacked as racist/natioonalist/xenophobicSouthamObserver said:
No, they're not.isam said:
For 50 years people have wanted a curb on immigration. Almost every opinion poll shows this. Yet anyone that suggests doing something about it is smeared with words like "Nationalist"SouthamObserver said:
People have every right to expect that. And such expectations are not nationalist.isam said:Well we can all hide behind vague words that mean different things to different people or passive aggressive cowardice.
I am not patriotic in the sense of thinking England is better than anyone else just because its England, in any shape or form. But that doesnt mean that its people shouldnt expect their government to put their opinions and rights first. Thats what the government is elected to do.
0 -
The Queen will carry on as it is her duty. Popularity considerations don't come into it.HYUFD said:SO I think Juan Carlos stepped down at just the right time for his far more popular son. Interestingly here it is the reverse, the Queen is far more popular than Prince Charles, but William matches her popularity, so she will go on as long as she can to minimise Charles' reign and maximise William's
0 -
That is certainly an area for legitimate debate.JohnLilburne said:
But maybe ineffective ones in practiceSouthamObserver said:
As far as I can see all political parties support and advocate tangible curbs on immigration.isam said:
Go on then give an example of someone who wanted a tangible curb on immigration who wasnt attacked as racist/natioonalist/xenophobicSouthamObserver said:
No, they're not.isam said:
For 50 years people have wanted a curb on immigration. Almost every opinion poll shows this. Yet anyone that suggests doing something about it is smeared with words like "Nationalist"SouthamObserver said:
People have every right to expect that. And such expectations are not nationalist.isam said:Well we can all hide behind vague words that mean different things to different people or passive aggressive cowardice.
I am not patriotic in the sense of thinking England is better than anyone else just because its England, in any shape or form. But that doesnt mean that its people shouldnt expect their government to put their opinions and rights first. Thats what the government is elected to do.
0 -
Surbiton Using UKPR and the Newark swing I get a total of Tories 294, Labour 296 and LDs 28, so really the Tories neck and neck for largest party
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/swing-calculator0 -
I did a test in the Telegraph website and found out that, I "side" with:
Greens 87%
SNP 84%
PC 75%
LD 74%
Lab 69%
BNP 34%
Con 31%
UKIP 20%
?????????????????????0 -
When is the Ashcroft LibDem marginals poll coming out?0
-
Mike Natrass on Sunday Politics.. The "An" in "An Independence from Europe" stood for "Anglo-Netherlands"....0
-
Westmoorland, Ross Skye & lochaber, Sheffield Hallam and Orkney & Shetland ?Verulamius said:When is the Ashcroft LibDem marginals poll coming out?
0 -
Perhaps because you stand for centrist, social democratic policies in the good old British consensus tradition? The SNP are the last bastions of that Britishness. A curious paradox, but not its fault - though its opponents do not like being reminded of both facts.surbiton said:I did a test in the Telegraph website and found out that, I "side" with:
Greens 87%
SNP 84%
PC 75%
LD 74%
Lab 69%
BNP 34%
Con 31%
UKIP 20%
?????????????????????
0
