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  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,686
    $2,933 for ‘Girl’s Night’: Medicaid chief’s consulting expenses revealed
    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/10/seema-verma-medicaid-expenses-411539
    When Seema Verma, the Trump administration's top Medicaid official, went to a reporter's home in November 2018 for a "Girl's Night" thrown in her honor, taxpayers footed the bill to organize the event: $2,933.

    When Verma wrote an op-ed on Fox News' website that fall, touting President Donald Trump's changes to Obamacare, taxpayers got charged for one consultant's price to place it: $977...

    ...The efforts were steered by Pam Stevens, a Republican communications consultant and former Trump administration official working to raise the brand of Verma, who leads the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services. The prices were the amount a consulting company billed the government for her services, based on her invoices, which were obtained by congressional Democrats.

    They are among the revelations included in a sweeping congressional investigation chronicling how Verma spent more than $3.5 million on a range of GOP-connected consultants, who polished her public profile, wrote her speeches and Twitter posts, brokered meetings with high-profile individuals — and even billed taxpayers for connecting Verma with fellow Republicans in Congress.

    The 49-year-old Verma, who advised then-Gov. Mike Pence in Indiana on health policy before joining the Trump administration, has strongly rejected any suggestion of wrongdoing in her consulting practices. In October 2019, she told a House committee that “all the contracts we have at CMS are based on promoting the work of CMS” and the spending was “consistent with how the agency has used resources in the past.”

    But the probe — conducted by Democrats across four congressional committees — found that Verma surrounded herself with a rotating cast of at least 15 highly paid communications consultants during her first two years in office, even as she publicly called for fiscal restraint and championed policies like work requirements for Americans on Medicaid, the health insurance program for low-income people...


    Democrats seem to be doing reasonably well in managing the news cycle in the run up to the election.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,222

    BBC News - Coronavirus: Wales to restrict indoor gatherings to six people
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-54108648

    FFS, the different countries in the UK are still playing silly buggers. Scotland an under 12 doesn't count for the 6, so Wales goes under 11s...

    Its to appease all the "I can't see my grandkids" whingers.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,099
    rcs1000 said:

    That's a fair comment.

    But can I point you to @edmundintokyo's link to the Apple mobility data. Arizona saw had a lockdown that was reversed in early May. Activity - according to Apple - renewed as people went back about their day-to-day business.

    But then as CV19 cases rose, it dropped again. Indeed, public transport usage in Arizona is doing worse now than in California.

    People react to increased risk. If you hear sirens, you stay home.
    Judging by the traffic jams and busy streets here in Germany I'd say things are close back to normal.

    The OP made the valid point that the infection rate dropped away much more quickly than we might have expected among an uninfected population, and I don't expect your assertion will be the principal cause. I still reckon it'll be some combination of resistance/immunity being more widespread plus that many of the 'new cases' being found now were actually infected way back in the spring.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,207
    edited September 2020
    Nigelb said:

    $2,933 for ‘Girl’s Night’: Medicaid chief’s consulting expenses revealed
    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/10/seema-verma-medicaid-expenses-411539
    When Seema Verma, the Trump administration's top Medicaid official, went to a reporter's home in November 2018 for a "Girl's Night" thrown in her honor, taxpayers footed the bill to organize the event: $2,933.

    When Verma wrote an op-ed on Fox News' website that fall, touting President Donald Trump's changes to Obamacare, taxpayers got charged for one consultant's price to place it: $977...

    ...The efforts were steered by Pam Stevens, a Republican communications consultant and former Trump administration official working to raise the brand of Verma, who leads the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services. The prices were the amount a consulting company billed the government for her services, based on her invoices, which were obtained by congressional Democrats.

    They are among the revelations included in a sweeping congressional investigation chronicling how Verma spent more than $3.5 million on a range of GOP-connected consultants, who polished her public profile, wrote her speeches and Twitter posts, brokered meetings with high-profile individuals — and even billed taxpayers for connecting Verma with fellow Republicans in Congress.

    The 49-year-old Verma, who advised then-Gov. Mike Pence in Indiana on health policy before joining the Trump administration, has strongly rejected any suggestion of wrongdoing in her consulting practices. In October 2019, she told a House committee that “all the contracts we have at CMS are based on promoting the work of CMS” and the spending was “consistent with how the agency has used resources in the past.”

    But the probe — conducted by Democrats across four congressional committees — found that Verma surrounded herself with a rotating cast of at least 15 highly paid communications consultants during her first two years in office, even as she publicly called for fiscal restraint and championed policies like work requirements for Americans on Medicaid, the health insurance program for low-income people...


    Democrats seem to be doing reasonably well in managing the news cycle in the run up to the election.

    Trump is running out of time to change the game.
    IanB2 said:

    I think you will find most funerals are indoors, wholly or partly.

    There is a massive difference between being packed into a sporting crowd of people all shouting at the top of their voice, and a quiet dinner at the edge of the square.

    If you read the article you will see that the study didn't gather this key data
    I don't think it could, within the methodology of the study.

    Intuitively I would expect outdoor events to be safer, but it is perhaps of no matter to us in drizzly autumnL England. Dining al fresco won't be tenable for much longer.
  • coachcoach Posts: 250
    eristdoof said:

    How on earth can you post on a betting site many times each day for years, and have not yet understood that a 30% probability comes in quite often?

    That is really a very ignorant post for this forum.
    I was scolded recently for suggesting plenty on here have little comprehension of odds and betting. Its not a betting site at all, much to my disappointment.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Pulpstar said:

    Its to appease all the "I can't see my grandkids" whingers.
    I’m not sure that’s the point of the post - which is to highlight that all U.K. administrations are basically following the same policy prescriptions whilst having nuanced differences that clearly have no scientific basis just to give the impression that they are taking their own decisions.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    HYUFD said:
    316 respondents of which 39% voted for Trump and 35% voted for Clinton AFTER WEIGHTING.

    Straight in the bin.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,099
    alex_ said:

    I’m not sure that’s the point of the post - which is to highlight that all U.K. administrations are basically following the same policy prescriptions whilst having nuanced differences that clearly have no scientific basis just to give the impression that they are taking their own decisions.
    Bozo is doing his best to minimise the differences, by following Scotland ;)
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,814
    rcs1000 said:

    Here's the thing: this is something that needs a reasoned debate, but it also needs data.

    And the "longcovid" story is not a new one invented by fearmongers. SeanT was reporting on long term side effects back in February. I know a number of people who have not fully recovered from it.

    My view is that we should not seek "zero Covid", but that we should seek to manage it at a low level until a vaccine is available. This means we should ban the highest risk activities (nightclubs, karaoke clubs, concerts, indoor sporting events), and require people to wear masks on things like public transport.

    Doing that, I believe, is enough to keep R at a relatively low level, while avoiding it running completely out of control.

    The other thing that I think you missed is that places without formal lockdowns still have de facto ones. Sweden's economic performance is Q2 - if the PMIs are correct - will be the worst in Europe, and its unemployment continues to climb. If people are scared, they don't go out. It may not be a formal lockdown, but people aren't going about their normal life - instead working from home has become de facto.

    My business is in Arizona. It was one of the the first to reopen in the US (which given I'm in the business of selling auto insurance, and I want people to get out and drive and buy new cars). But Arizona has been a bit of a disaster zone. Not i terms of deaths, but in terms of economic activity. Shopping malls are still deserted. Restaraunts are still closing. Driving activity and new auto purchases are down worse than in California.

    So I think you've created a bit of a false dichotemy - between places that are thriving because there are no lockdowns, and places that are suffering because they have them.
    I don’t disagree with too much of your recommended panacea. But that’s not what’s happening in the uk. My son’s school gave a vote to teachers on the use of masks by kids. Good way of keeping them onboard and into work. But they came up with a policy of enforced mask wearing by all kids older than 7, at all times unless in the classroom. There’s not much evidence kids that age can even spread it, much less that they should be wearing masks even outside as they wait for class.

    It’s but one example of how the fear messaging from the govt is mixing with British health & safety / officialdom culture and coming up with quite perverse outcomes, where the cure is without doubt causing more damage over the long term than the ailment.

    Sensible risk segmentation and freedom of choice is all I ask for.

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,099
    coach said:

    I was scolded recently for suggesting plenty on here have little comprehension of odds and betting. Its not a betting site at all, much to my disappointment.
    TBF deciding the outcome based on your own preference and then looking for polls to support it doesn't require any understanding of odds ;)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,368
    IanB2 said:

    Judging by the traffic jams and busy streets here in Germany I'd say things are close back to normal.

    The OP made the valid point that the infection rate dropped away much more quickly than we might have expected among an uninfected population, and I don't expect your assertion will be the principal cause. I still reckon it'll be some combination of resistance/immunity being more widespread plus that many of the 'new cases' being found now were actually infected way back in the spring.
    I hope you're right.

    However, I'd point out that in "enclosed" situations, like the choir or the fishing vessel, you saw over 80% of people infected. This does not suggest that 75% or so of the population has natural immunity.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,207
    coach said:

    I was scolded recently for suggesting plenty on here have little comprehension of odds and betting. Its not a betting site at all, much to my disappointment.
    There are some here who never bet, and others who are serious gamblers, though often less frequent posters. Election nights it's the place to be.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,817
    MoM GDP up 6.6%, UK economy now 11.7% smaller than in Feb. Recovery looks extremely V shaped. We're on track to recover around 95% of GDP before the end of the year, even with this new lockdown.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,099
    edited September 2020
    rcs1000 said:

    I hope you're right.

    However, I'd point out that in "enclosed" situations, like the choir or the fishing vessel, you saw over 80% of people infected. This does not suggest that 75% or so of the population has natural immunity.
    You don't need 75%. Social distancing will have dramatically reduced the herd immunity threshold from the originally projected level. Assume the number of people actually infected in the spring was greater than reported (many being recorded as new cases now, since the virus hangs around in the system) and a modest level of resistance from recent exposure to other coronaviruses, and you have a credible hypothesis

    p.s. neither the infamous ski chalet nor the diamond princess got anywhere near 80%
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,076
    IanB2 said:

    Judging by the traffic jams and busy streets here in Germany I'd say things are close back to normal.
    Traffic jams indicate that less people are taking public transport, which is good in most German cities. While the restrictions are consiiderably relaxed compaerd to the end of March, we are still a very long way from "back to normal".

    Just as an example, the winter semester at Berlin Unis will again be online except for courses which cannot be taught using distance learning, such as chemistry practicals.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,368
    IanB2 said:

    You don't need 75%. Social distancing will have dramatically reduced the herd immunity threshold from the originally projected level. Assume the number of people actually infected in the spring was greater than reported (many being recorded as new cases now, since the virus hangs around in the system) and a modest level of resistance from recent exposure to other coronaviruses, and you have a credible hypothesis

    p.s. neither the infamous ski chalet nor the diamond princess got anywhere near 80%
    Those aren't my examples. I'm thinking of:

    https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6919e6.htm
    https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/08/hint-of-covid-19-immunity-3-sailors-with-antibodies-spared-in-outbreak-at-sea/?amp=1

    Both of those are Situations where 80+% of people were infected.

    The reason we don't see that in the real world is because people self isolate as cases rise. If there's no possibility of self isolation, then you get much higher levels of infection.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,817
    rcs1000 said:

    Here's the thing: this is something that needs a reasoned debate, but it also needs data.

    And the "longcovid" story is not a new one invented by fearmongers. SeanT was reporting on long term side effects back in February. I know a number of people who have not fully recovered from it.

    My view is that we should not seek "zero Covid", but that we should seek to manage it at a low level until a vaccine is available. This means we should ban the highest risk activities (nightclubs, karaoke clubs, concerts, indoor sporting events), and require people to wear masks on things like public transport.

    Doing that, I believe, is enough to keep R at a relatively low level, while avoiding it running completely out of control.

    The other thing that I think you missed is that places without formal lockdowns still have de facto ones. Sweden's economic performance is Q2 - if the PMIs are correct - will be the worst in Europe, and its unemployment continues to climb. If people are scared, they don't go out. It may not be a formal lockdown, but people aren't going about their normal life - instead working from home has become de facto.

    My business is in Arizona. It was one of the the first to reopen in the US (which given I'm in the business of selling auto insurance, and I want people to get out and drive and buy new cars). But Arizona has been a bit of a disaster zone. Not i terms of deaths, but in terms of economic activity. Shopping malls are still deserted. Restaraunts are still closing. Driving activity and new auto purchases are down worse than in California.

    So I think you've created a bit of a false dichotemy - between places that are thriving because there are no lockdowns, and places that are suffering because they have them.
    I'm not sure quarterly GDP is the best comparator, there are too many measurement variables for it to be truly useful. I think comparing Q1 GDP in 2021 to Q1 in 2020 is going to be the best measure of how a country has dealt with the crisis in economic terms. A lot of the current comparisons put the UK at the bottom of the international pile but that's mainly because of a quirk in ONS measurement which ascribes variable economic value to public sector output while most (all other) countries just take spending and add a multiplier. So when the NHS and schoolsshut down for two months the education and health sub sectors in services took a huge hit despite the teachers and doctors still getting paid and the money still being spent.

    It's also why the UK recovery will be faster than everywhere else because the state sector is also "recovering" at the same time. See today's figures. The comparison of who is where a year later makes the most sense to me.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,076
    IanB2 said:

    You don't need 75%. Social distancing will have dramatically reduced the herd immunity threshold from the originally projected level. Assume the number of people actually infected in the spring was greater than reported (many being recorded as new cases now, since the virus hangs around in the system) and a modest level of resistance from recent exposure to other coronaviruses, and you have a credible hypothesis

    p.s. neither the infamous ski chalet nor the diamond princess got anywhere near 80%
    I think you are confusing herd immunity with keeping the contagion under control.

    If you lift all restrictions when there is herd immunity, the contagion will remain under control.

    If you lift all restrictions when herd immunity has not been reached, the contagion can easily spiral out of control.

    Of course herd immunity is not a binary status, and 30% of the population having immunity is better than 1%.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,368
    moonshine said:

    I don’t disagree with too much of your recommended panacea. But that’s not what’s happening in the uk. My son’s school gave a vote to teachers on the use of masks by kids. Good way of keeping them onboard and into work. But they came up with a policy of enforced mask wearing by all kids older than 7, at all times unless in the classroom. There’s not much evidence kids that age can even spread it, much less that they should be wearing masks even outside as they wait for class.

    It’s but one example of how the fear messaging from the govt is mixing with British health & safety / officialdom culture and coming up with quite perverse outcomes, where the cure is without doubt causing more damage over the long term than the ailment.

    Sensible risk segmentation and freedom of choice is all I ask for.

    I am no expert on children, but this research (https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/07/200730141324.htm) seems to suggest that while children don't suffer from the disease, that they are still effective at spreading it.
  • MaxPB said:

    MoM GDP up 6.6%, UK economy now 11.7% smaller than in Feb. Recovery looks extremely V shaped. We're on track to recover around 95% of GDP before the end of the year, even with this new lockdown.

    We’ve just made over 10% of our workforce redundant. We are not alone. Those jobs aren’t coming back any time soon. It also looks like there’s a No Deal to throw into the equation now. That final 5% will be very tough to close and in the real world it will not feel like a recovery, especially because most did not feel the effects of the collapse.

  • rcs1000 said:

    I am no expert on children, but this research (https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/07/200730141324.htm) seems to suggest that while children don't suffer from the disease, that they are still effective at spreading it.
    Yup. 1 week into Mrs RP's full time teaching assistant gig and she's absolutely clear that whilst the school are doing their best with mitigation measures you simply can't distance a school full of kids when you don't have enough space.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,207
    edited September 2020
    Quite a big trade surplus this month, due to an decline in physical imports.


  • rcs1000 said:
    Biden is favoured to win the election 75% of the time - that's up from 69% last time I looked.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,814
    rcs1000 said:

    I am no expert on children, but this research (https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/07/200730141324.htm) seems to suggest that while children don't suffer from the disease, that they are still effective at spreading it.
    That link doesn’t work. But there’s plenty else to say that there is no conclusive evidence that asymptomatic under 12s are effective spreaders. One has to wonder why.

    It’s all a bit like your long COVID fear. To what extent should we take precautions with sometimes quite profound long term consequences, to cure a problem set for which we do not have sufficient data to even come close to defining the scale of the problem?

    My biggest fear right now is the polling for just how many support laws banning family gatherings bigger than 6, curfews, local “enforcement officers” and the like. The genie is out the bottle and there for all to see now - despite all the social and educational advances of the last century, all you need to do to sleep walk a population into authoritarianism is just inject a (very small) bit of fear into their lives.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,222
    Alistair said:

    316 respondents of which 39% voted for Trump and 35% voted for Clinton AFTER WEIGHTING.

    Straight in the bin.
    I make it 51.6 - 43.2 if you reweight the Clinton/Trump back to 48.2/46.1
  • I don't think people are going to lose much sleep on the legal consequences of breaking the rule of 6. Who in practical terms is going to enforce it? Besides which people aren't as stupid as the government, they can see the absurdity of what has been put forward.

    Let me give you an example. There are several of us leaving my company next month. Ordinarily we'd have a big piss up. But rule of 6 says that having spent all day working together it is unsafe and illegal to go down the pub. So the proposed solution is to have the piss up in the office (as used to be the tradition when I was a junior advertising sales bod in the magazine industry 20 years ago).
  • Biden is favoured to win the election 75% of the time - that's up from 69% last time I looked.
    The math is blissfully simple. He should be 3/1 on. You can back him at 5/4 on (the Party) or 6/5 on (the man himself). You won't often see better betting opportunities than that.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,207
    moonshine said:

    That link doesn’t work. But there’s plenty else to say that there is no conclusive evidence that asymptomatic under 12s are effective spreaders. One has to wonder why.

    It’s all a bit like your long COVID fear. To what extent should we take precautions with sometimes quite profound long term consequences, to cure a problem set for which we do not have sufficient data to even come close to defining the scale of the problem?

    My biggest fear right now is the polling for just how many support laws banning family gatherings bigger than 6, curfews, local “enforcement officers” and the like. The genie is out the bottle and there for all to see now - despite all the social and educational advances of the last century, all you need to do to sleep walk a population into authoritarianism is just inject a (very small) bit of fear into their lives.
    I wouldn't minimise "long covid" as self limiting. We simply do not know yet how much of the microvascular damage is reversible. Not everyone gets the vascular features, and generally lung micro infarcts do well, cerebral, renal and neurological much less so.

    We have only known of this virus for some months and plenty yet to learn. Long term damage from SARS is quite common, 40% had long term depression and/or chronic fatigue 4 years post recovery in one Hong Kong study.



  • I don't think people are going to lose much sleep on the legal consequences of breaking the rule of 6. Who in practical terms is going to enforce it? Besides which people aren't as stupid as the government, they can see the absurdity of what has been put forward.

    Let me give you an example. There are several of us leaving my company next month. Ordinarily we'd have a big piss up. But rule of 6 says that having spent all day working together it is unsafe and illegal to go down the pub. So the proposed solution is to have the piss up in the office (as used to be the tradition when I was a junior advertising sales bod in the magazine industry 20 years ago).

    If you wish to act selfishly and in defiance of a public health crisis you will contribute to the continuation of this destructive disease to the detriment of the health and economy of our nation

  • GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,199
    IanB2 said:

    You don't need 75%. Social distancing will have dramatically reduced the herd immunity threshold from the originally projected level. Assume the number of people actually infected in the spring was greater than reported (many being recorded as new cases now, since the virus hangs around in the system) and a modest level of resistance from recent exposure to other coronaviruses, and you have a credible hypothesis

    p.s. neither the infamous ski chalet nor the diamond princess got anywhere near 80%
    It seems to me that some folks are immune whilst others are 'resistant' and somehow the combination serves to protect lots of folks in lots of situations such as Diamond Princess, New York, and London.

    However, under some close contact situations the 'resistance' seems to break down, such as meat processing plants and choir practice, where the majority have become infected.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,732

    If you wish to act selfishly and in defiance of a public health crisis you will contribute to the continuation of this destructive disease to the detriment of the health and economy of our nation

    Question - at what point does that office environment change from a workplace where more than 6 people is legal to a place where more than 6 people being there is illegal?
  • eekeek Posts: 29,732



    Yup. 1 week into Mrs RP's full time teaching assistant gig and she's absolutely clear that whilst the school are doing their best with mitigation measures you simply can't distance a school full of kids when you don't have enough space.

    We (next town along) are already seeing things fall apart - children are being sent home with symptoms only to discover that the nearest available test is over 90 miles away (it's now Lancashire or Nottingham, none in Yorkshire or the North East).
  • GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,199
    Foxy said:

    I wouldn't minimise "long covid" as self limiting. We simply do not know yet how much of the microvascular damage is reversible. Not everyone gets the vascular features, and generally lung micro infarcts do well, cerebral, renal and neurological much less so.

    We have only known of this virus for some months and plenty yet to learn. Long term damage from SARS is quite common, 40% had long term depression and/or chronic fatigue 4 years post recovery in one Hong Kong study.



    Only a handful of people are known to have succumbed to Covid in my rural community, but they are all shells, compared to what they used to be.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    IanB2 said:

    I think you will find most funerals are indoors, wholly or partly.

    There is a massive difference between being packed into a sporting crowd of people all shouting at the top of their voice, and a quiet dinner at the edge of the square.

    If you read the article you will see that the study didn't gather this key data
    Funerals are a significant source of outbreaks in Spain, I assume though it has more to do with physical greetings of long lost relatives who can’t resist hugging each other.
  • If you wish to act selfishly and in defiance of a public health crisis you will contribute to the continuation of this destructive disease to the detriment of the health and economy of our nation

    I get where you are coming from Big G but if they have spent all day together in the office it's hard to see why they can't have a beer together there. The problem with the new rules is that they give the impression that it's OK to risk your health as long as it involves enriching the bosses, but not if you just want to enjoy yourself. It feels like a very Tory response to a public health crisis.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    IanB2 said:

    Bozo is doing his best to minimise the differences, by following Scotland ;)
    And murmurings in the press this morning suggest that we may be about to rapidly tweak our rules again and... follow Scotland. On the (probably reasonable!) grounds that 1) the measures are targeted mainly against young adults and 2) given that young children (if they represent a material risk vector) are probably spreading the thing like wildfire in schools anyway there's no real sensible reason to restrict them in homes - just on pure assessment of relative risk.

    Not that i think the criticism that "grandparents are being prevented from seeing their grandchildren" is particularly valid anyway. Whilst there are some limitations because there is simply not enough weekends in the year, realistically you've got to be getting to 4 children to a parent before it doesn't become possible. Anything less and you can visit with one parent and 3 kids. What you can't have is big family gatherings across multiple household.
  • Nigelb said:

    Just a reminder, Philip claims to be a libertarian...
    Parliament is sovereign. That runs through every part of our Constitution. If Parliament gives power to ministers it can take it back when it want. There are no legal problems at all. In theory...

    The problem as we saw time and again last year is that the executive controls the parliamentary timetable. If the government doesn't want it's powers taken away then it merely has to not schedule parliamentary time to vote on it. Even with a minority government and an activist speaker MPs were only able to take control of the timetable in a very limited way. Given the attitude of the current speaker and the Government's majority I don't see that happening any time soon.
  • eek said:

    Question - at what point does that office environment change from a workplace where more than 6 people is legal to a place where more than 6 people being there is illegal?
    The difference is that office environments are required to implement safeguarding and social distancing measures.

    However, it does not alter the fact that acting selfishly and irresponsibly will just see covid continue to devastate the health and economy of our nation
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,256
    coach said:

    I made the point earlier in the week that this place has regressed from being a balanced mix to an overwhelming pro EU, anti Boris abbatoir. No problem with that I'm not pro Boris but it makes for very dull, one sided conversation.

    I log on 2 or 3 days later and see more of the same in a header from Alastair Meeks.

    Mr Smithson this is your site and your prerogative but you might wonder why the number of posters and contributions has fallen.

    I have been on and off here since 2005. I can't see much difference in opinion tbh. Unpopular incumbency will be dealt the harshest hand, but isn't that always the way?

    Keep up the good work.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,368
    edited September 2020
    moonshine said:

    That link doesn’t work. But there’s plenty else to say that there is no conclusive evidence that asymptomatic under 12s are effective spreaders. One has to wonder why.

    It’s all a bit like your long COVID fear. To what extent should we take precautions with sometimes quite profound long term consequences, to cure a problem set for which we do not have sufficient data to even come close to defining the scale of the problem?

    My biggest fear right now is the polling for just how many support laws banning family gatherings bigger than 6, curfews, local “enforcement officers” and the like. The genie is out the bottle and there for all to see now - despite all the social and educational advances of the last century, all you need to do to sleep walk a population into authoritarianism is just inject a (very small) bit of fear into their lives.
    The answer is that we run a test. We divide the UK into three different areas: one where schools have no social distancing, and continue as normal; one where there are moderate precautions, and one where there is only distance learning.

    We can then look at the infection rates in the three areas and make an informed decision about what each of those choices means for infection rates.

    But the worry I have when I read your posts is that - if there's evidence you don't like, on "long Covid" or children being carriers - then you are mentally primed to dismiss it as just the ravings of authoritarians.

    Edit to add: here's a Harvard piece on children as spreaders https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/08/looking-at-children-as-the-silent-spreaders-of-sars-cov-2/#:~:text=The researchers note that although,the virus into their homes.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,012
    edited September 2020
    Interesting but a little lop sided. Mr Meeks does not give enough credit for the fact that overwhelmingly UK people are moderate centrists and a fortiori so are a good number of Brexit voters.

    A decent comparison is Scottish nationalism. They are very like Brexit voters - moderate, decent, tolerant, filled with ideals and principle, wedded to long term solutions and the history of national identity spurring them on to moderate but deeply held political conviction. For myself I agree with their Brexiteer mirror images, and disagree with the SNP.

    For those who genuinely preferred UK independence to being in the EU there was no choice but to vote for and with all sorts of oddities - naturally. Just as moderate Scottish independence supporters have no choice but to support the SNP with all its evasions, contradictions and weaknesses.

    Mr Meeks makes good and interesting points but his argument is not helped by partisan caricature.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited September 2020

    The difference is that office environments are required to implement safeguarding and social distancing measures.

    However, it does not alter the fact that acting selfishly and irresponsibly will just see covid continue to devastate the health and economy of our nation
    Why would you assume that the workers having a drink in the office are acting any differently in social distancing terms to during the day? There may even be managers there who have a legal responsibility to ensure that this is the case.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,732
    rcs1000 said:

    If he'd worked hard to prevent same sex marriages, he would have been spared. CV19 was God's way of punishing him for not fighting hard enough against them.
    Both options are possible but by striking down just the moderates it's hard to work out which side God is really on. Unless he just really dislikes indecision.
  • I get where you are coming from Big G but if they have spent all day together in the office it's hard to see why they can't have a beer together there. The problem with the new rules is that they give the impression that it's OK to risk your health as long as it involves enriching the bosses, but not if you just want to enjoy yourself. It feels like a very Tory response to a public health crisis.
    Any office environment is required to follow safeguarding and social distancing and in some cases wearing face masks.

    Once you introduce drinking into this environment socialising becomes much more unsafe

    I would just comment that all government's in this crisis needs businesses to get back within a safe environment to secure peoples jobs, not enriching bosses

    I expect the vast majority of people will not act selfishly recognising that we all have to play our part in defeating this wicked disease
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,368
    coach said:

    I made the point earlier in the week that this place has regressed from being a balanced mix to an overwhelming pro EU, anti Boris abbatoir. No problem with that I'm not pro Boris but it makes for very dull, one sided conversation.

    I log on 2 or 3 days later and see more of the same in a header from Alastair Meeks.

    Mr Smithson this is your site and your prerogative but you might wonder why the number of posters and contributions has fallen.

    I think the problem has been that a number of vocal leavers - say @MaxPB, @Casino_Royale, @Richard_Tyndall, @DavidL and myself - have found ourselves in the position of criticising the government over their proposed Internal Markets Bill.

    So, I don't think the issue is that Leavers have left the site (are there any that you can think of that were here three months ago, that are not here now?), but more the government is behaving in an incompetent and self defeating manner.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,207
    An interesting article in the NEJM today:

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1304312706518994944?s=09

    It doesn't seem to be merely age of infection that is behind the current low mortality. In this recent German study, mortality was down in all age groups:


  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,368
    Foxy said:

    An interesting article in the NEJM today:

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1304312706518994944?s=09

    It doesn't seem to be merely age of infection that is behind the current low mortality. In this recent German study, mortality was down in all age groups:


    Don't tell @NerysHughes
  • @algarkirk

    "Mr Meeks makes good and interesting points but his argument is not helped by partisan caricature. "

    If only we had someone to put the other side with comparable force and elegance.

    Edit: In fairness, we do have have several such posters but they mostly appear 'below the line'.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    I have been on and off here since 2005. I can't see much difference in opinion tbh. Unpopular incumbency will be dealt the harshest hand, but isn't that always the way?

    Keep up the good work.
    The major difference, I’ve been around since 2005 as well is the reduction in active, vocal Lib Dems, reflecting the outside world. There does appear to be more people pushing strict party lines rather than opinion. It still remains an excellent window into how middle class, professional UK thinks with a good spread of views from other countries. I doubt there is anywhere like it and all the views help the punter to decide how they view the offered odds.
  • alex_ said:

    Why would you assume that the workers having a drink in the office are acting any differently in social distancing terms to during the day? There may even be managers there who have a legal responsibility to ensure that this is the case.
    If the manager ensures all public health measures are maintained including safeguarding and social distancing while drinking then no problem

  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,884
    Look on this and weep. Taiwan: 7 Covid deaths; 500 cases; economy in growth in 2020.

    Transparency, public trust and good organisation seem to be the keys

    https://www.pri.org/stories/2020-08-17/how-taiwan-battling-coronavirus-tech-crowdsourced-data-and-trust
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited September 2020
    Pulpstar said:

    Trump voters 39% to Clinton 35% in their weighted total
    It would be like a Scotland poll that has Yes winning the 2014 referendum in their sample.

    It is such a basic prerequisite that I can't believe some of these polls are being released.
  • algarkirk said:

    Interesting but a little lop sided. Mr Meeks does not give enough credit for the fact that overwhelmingly UK people are moderate centrists and a fortiori so are a good number of Brexit voters.

    A decent comparison is Scottish nationalism. They are very like Brexit voters - moderate, decent, tolerant, filled with ideals and principle, wedded to long term solutions and the history of national identity spurring them on to moderate but deeply held political conviction. For myself I agree with their Brexiteer mirror images, and disagree with the SNP.

    For those who genuinely preferred UK independence to being in the EU there was no choice but to vote for and with all sorts of oddities - naturally. Just as moderate Scottish independence supporters have no choice but to support the SNP with all its evasions, contradictions and weaknesses.

    Mr Meeks makes good and interesting points but his argument is not helped by partisan caricature.

    Yes. One of the main reasons for voting Leave among people who I've spoken to was simply the £350m for the NHS. Many of them didn't have particularly strong feelings either way about the EU or immigration and didn't know or care about things like free trade.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,686
    IanB2 said:

    You don't need 75%. Social distancing will have dramatically reduced the herd immunity threshold from the originally projected level. Assume the number of people actually infected in the spring was greater than reported (many being recorded as new cases now, since the virus hangs around in the system) and a modest level of resistance from recent exposure to other coronaviruses, and you have a credible hypothesis

    p.s. neither the infamous ski chalet nor the diamond princess got anywhere near 80%
    But this recent case did.
    https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-08-fishing-boat-outbreak-virus-immunity.html
  • If you wish to act selfishly and in defiance of a public health crisis you will contribute to the continuation of this destructive disease to the detriment of the health and economy of our nation

    I won't be. It is absolutely legal for more than 6 of us to be in office and factory. My point about others is that the evening down the pub that 5 of us have organised next week will absolutely breech the rule of 6. Because there will be more than 6 people in the pub. "Ah but you won't be socially mixing" says the government. Which as anyone who has ever been in a pub knows is bollocks.

    The new rules are a nonsense. The local high schools tip their kids out who all walk home in a large group, albeit a smaller group than then have spent all day in. That is legal and safe But if they start playing football as they cross the park? Apparently they are acting "selfishly and in defiance of a public health crisis".

    Its. Bollocks. Mate.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    algarkirk said:

    Interesting but a little lop sided. Mr Meeks does not give enough credit for the fact that overwhelmingly UK people are moderate centrists and a fortiori so are a good number of Brexit voters.

    A decent comparison is Scottish nationalism. They are very like Brexit voters - moderate, decent, tolerant, filled with ideals and principle, wedded to long term solutions and the history of national identity spurring them on to moderate but deeply held political conviction. For myself I agree with their Brexiteer mirror images, and disagree with the SNP.

    For those who genuinely preferred UK independence to being in the EU there was no choice but to vote for and with all sorts of oddities - naturally. Just as moderate Scottish independence supporters have no choice but to support the SNP with all its evasions, contradictions and weaknesses.

    Mr Meeks makes good and interesting points but his argument is not helped by partisan caricature.

    I think Alistair's point has always been about the means of victory, and the reasons credited to it, rather than the victory itself.

    Now this could be naive - you make take the view that Brexit was going to be a shitshow whatever happened, but one can make a case that had it been won on the back of an explicit commitment to prioritise freedom of trade, and even better with some sort of EEA/EFTA prospectus, and played less on anti-immigration and nationalist feeling then the outcomes now could have been very different.

    Scottish Independence could be the same. The advantage that SINDY would have is that if a referendum would be won then this would be on the back of Government support who were then much better placed to take control of the exit process from day 1. On the other side i think the difficulties, even with good will on both sides, will be far more complex.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,817
    rcs1000 said:

    I think the problem has been that a number of vocal leavers - say @MaxPB, @Casino_Royale, @Richard_Tyndall, @DavidL and myself - have found ourselves in the position of criticising the government over their proposed Internal Markets Bill.

    So, I don't think the issue is that Leavers have left the site (are there any that you can think of that were here three months ago, that are not here now?), but more the government is behaving in an incompetent and self defeating manner.
    Indeed, to say that I'm suddenly pro-EU because I don't want the government to break the law is absolutely ridiculous.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,256
    Foxy said:

    An interesting article in the NEJM today:

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1304312706518994944?s=09

    It doesn't seem to be merely age of infection that is behind the current low mortality. In this recent German study, mortality was down in all age groups:


    Here in Wales masks are still not mandatory. I would like Mark Drakeford and Vaughan Gethin to be made aware of the finding.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,172
    MaxPB said:

    MoM GDP up 6.6%, UK economy now 11.7% smaller than in Feb. Recovery looks extremely V shaped. We're on track to recover around 95% of GDP before the end of the year, even with this new lockdown.

    Max, can you give a source for that? Is that not somewhat less of a recovery than your office was forecasting?
  • rcs1000 said:

    I think the problem has been that a number of vocal leavers - say @MaxPB, @Casino_Royale, @Richard_Tyndall, @DavidL and myself - have found ourselves in the position of criticising the government over their proposed Internal Markets Bill.

    So, I don't think the issue is that Leavers have left the site (are there any that you can think of that were here three months ago, that are not here now?), but more the government is behaving in an incompetent and self defeating manner.
    Indeed, you can disagree with the Government without it changing your opinion on that issue.

    I was in that position during May's tenure too. Didn't mean I was a Remainer again, it just meant I disagreed with May and what she was doing.

    Where I do think this site is unrepresentative is that I think there's a shortage of people who were against May's deal and for what Boris is doing relative to the general public . . . but that's OK. The site doesn't need to be 100% representative.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,165

    Yes. One of the main reasons for voting Leave among people who I've spoken to was simply the £350m for the NHS. Many of them didn't have particularly strong feelings either way about the EU or immigration and didn't know or care about things like free trade.
    Don’t be silly. Every morning they say a prayer to the god Poseidon, hoping, praying, begging, for the return of our fishing waters. It’s in touching distance.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    Yes. One of the main reasons for voting Leave among people who I've spoken to was simply the £350m for the NHS. Many of them didn't have particularly strong feelings either way about the EU or immigration and didn't know or care about things like free trade.
    Wonder how they feel about the £100bn moonshot.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    Here in Wales masks are still not mandatory. I would like Mark Drakeford and Vaughan Gethin to be made aware of the finding.
    Is Wales experiencing a particular resurgence compared to the rest of the UK? Or are the vast majority wearing masks without being asked?
  • rcs1000 said:

    I think the problem has been that a number of vocal leavers - say @MaxPB, @Casino_Royale, @Richard_Tyndall, @DavidL and myself - have found ourselves in the position of criticising the government over their proposed Internal Markets Bill.

    So, I don't think the issue is that Leavers have left the site (are there any that you can think of that were here three months ago, that are not here now?), but more the government is behaving in an incompetent and self defeating manner.
    I have been very vocal in condemning Boris on this to the extent I believe he should resign
    and I absolutely agree HMG is behaving in an incompetent and self defeating manner.

    However, I still want the divorce from the EU confirmed at the end of the year and continue as a conservative party member
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,172
    Foxy said:

    Quite a big trade surplus this month, due to an decline in physical imports.


    Despite still being in the SM which has been impoverishing this country for more than a decade with ultimately unsustainable deficits. Is this a Covid effect or a Brexit effect? Either way it is welcome.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,368
    MaxPB said:

    Indeed, to say that I'm suddenly pro-EU because I don't want the government to break the law is absolutely ridiculous.
    Why don't you just admit that you've changed your phone wallpaper to a picture of Michael Barnier???

    (Joke.)
  • Mango said:

    I've lived in quite a few European countries. The UK is the crappiest.
    It's statements like these that win the hearts and minds of those sceptical about the European cause.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,165

    I have been very vocal in condemning Boris on this to the extent I believe he should resign
    and I absolutely agree HMG is behaving in an incompetent and self defeating manner.

    However, I still want the divorce from the EU confirmed at the end of the year and continue as a conservative party member
    What part of our vassal state-age are you willing to retain in order to get a deal? 🤓
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,207
    DavidL said:

    Max, can you give a source for that? Is that not somewhat less of a recovery than your office was forecasting?
    It's todays ONS release, see thread:

    https://twitter.com/ONS/status/1304299097717964802?s=19
  • I won't be. It is absolutely legal for more than 6 of us to be in office and factory. My point about others is that the evening down the pub that 5 of us have organised next week will absolutely breech the rule of 6. Because there will be more than 6 people in the pub. "Ah but you won't be socially mixing" says the government. Which as anyone who has ever been in a pub knows is bollocks.

    The new rules are a nonsense. The local high schools tip their kids out who all walk home in a large group, albeit a smaller group than then have spent all day in. That is legal and safe But if they start playing football as they cross the park? Apparently they are acting "selfishly and in defiance of a public health crisis".

    Its. Bollocks. Mate.
    In defence of the government, it is impossible to give advice that is both straightforward and deals correctly with every possible circumstance!
  • nichomar said:

    The major difference, I’ve been around since 2005 as well is the reduction in active, vocal Lib Dems, reflecting the outside world. There does appear to be more people pushing strict party lines rather than opinion. It still remains an excellent window into how middle class, professional UK thinks with a good spread of views from other countries. I doubt there is anywhere like it and all the views help the punter to decide how they view the offered odds.
    You started about the same time as me. We've seen the balance change many times and in many ways over that time but I agree that it remains an outstanding forum for varied and intelligent discussion.
  • The difference is that office environments are required to implement safeguarding and social distancing measures.

    However, it does not alter the fact that acting selfishly and irresponsibly will just see covid continue to devastate the health and economy of our nation
    With apologies for me sitting here genuinely laughing out loud at your posts. If I go to the office for the day as I am twice over the next fortnight I will sit at my desk. By a window which I had open even before the pox. Colleagues have their desks. That is both legal and not acting "selfishly in defiance of a public health crisis". If we then crack open a case of Heinekens at 5pm and continue sitting where we have been how is that selfish and irresponsible?

    I can't gather indoors in a group larger than 6 as its "selfish and irresponsible". Yet I can in the workplace. A school. The pub. My son can spend all day in a classroom of 25 and walk home in a similar sized group, yet if 7 of them kick a ball around they are being "selfish and irresponsible".

    The reason why this country has done so badly with the pox is because the government make up bullshit rules that are so patently absurd that some genuinely do act selfishly and irresponsibly.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,222
    Real, actual North Carolina data

    https://twitter.com/Pulpstar/status/1304317637434933248

    The silver lining if you're GOP is you could say the Democrats are just getting their vote out early. But I'd still say this is good thus far for the blue team.
  • MaxPB said:

    MoM GDP up 6.6%, UK economy now 11.7% smaller than in Feb. Recovery looks extremely V shaped. We're on track to recover around 95% of GDP before the end of the year, even with this new lockdown.

    I expect we'll see another big MoM increase when the August figures come out (with the Eat Out deal especially helping) and could be quite close to 100% in August, but then we might see a drop back off in September.
  • What part of our vassal state-age are you willing to retain in order to get a deal? 🤓
    I want an amicable divorce but if not it will be no deal
  • Lazenby is terrible, but the rest of the film is ok. I would go as far as to say had Connery starred as Bond, it would have been his finest.
    The film is brilliant because it is based very closely on Fleming's book and is directed by Peter Hunt, who is a terrific director. The score by John Barry is also one of his best - excellent.

    Lazenby is actually ok for a newbie (and again I put a lot of that down to Hunt) but is spoiled by being dubbed for almost half the film.

    The bits he gets right are the moving scenes with Tracy, which I think really work.
  • Yes. One of the main reasons for voting Leave among people who I've spoken to was simply the £350m for the NHS. Many of them didn't have particularly strong feelings either way about the EU or immigration and didn't know or care about things like free trade.
    Thats OK. The PM is exactly the same. However, all will know and care about things like free trade when our ability to move basic items across our border ceases overnight on New Year's Eve.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,256

    Indeed, you can disagree with the Government without it changing your opinion on that issue.

    I was in that position during May's tenure too. Didn't mean I was a Remainer again, it just meant I disagreed with May and what she was doing.

    Where I do think this site is unrepresentative is that I think there's a shortage of people who were against May's deal and for what Boris is doing relative to the general public . . . but that's OK. The site doesn't need to be 100% representative.
    By posting your point of view all day, every day, surely the frequency of postings for that point of view offsets the postings of the manifold malcontents.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,884
    nichomar said:

    The major difference, I’ve been around since 2005 as well is the reduction in active, vocal Lib Dems, reflecting the outside world. There does appear to be more people pushing strict party lines rather than opinion. It still remains an excellent window into how middle class, professional UK thinks with a good spread of views from other countries. I doubt there is anywhere like it and all the views help the punter to decide how they view the offered odds.
    It's definitely a demographic that tends to the older, wealthier and male. Supporters of Brexit and Johnson are well represented, but of a particular type.

    Could do with more Irish input IMO. There were a couple of really interesting contributors: GreenMachine and someone whose name I have forgotten that commented on NI politics from a UUP stance.
  • algarkirk said:

    Interesting but a little lop sided. Mr Meeks does not give enough credit for the fact that overwhelmingly UK people are moderate centrists and a fortiori so are a good number of Brexit voters.

    A decent comparison is Scottish nationalism. They are very like Brexit voters - moderate, decent, tolerant, filled with ideals and principle, wedded to long term solutions and the history of national identity spurring them on to moderate but deeply held political conviction. For myself I agree with their Brexiteer mirror images, and disagree with the SNP.

    For those who genuinely preferred UK independence to being in the EU there was no choice but to vote for and with all sorts of oddities - naturally. Just as moderate Scottish independence supporters have no choice but to support the SNP with all its evasions, contradictions and weaknesses.

    Mr Meeks makes good and interesting points but his argument is not helped by partisan caricature.

    I don't think the SNP comparison is valid because while SNP voters are spread across the spectrum on social issues like immigration, law and order, feminism etc (and I am guessing are more liberal than Unionists on average given the difference in age profile) there is overwhelming evidence that Leave voters skew sharply to the right on these questions (eg https://britainthinks.com/pdfs/Leavers-and-Remainers-true-tribes-or-trite-tropes-Autosaved.pdf). For instance, the best predictor of Leave vs Remain is views on the death penalty. Leavers are not, on average, centrist moderates who just happen to dislike the EU, although of course some are.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,172
    Foxy said:

    It's todays ONS release, see thread:

    https://twitter.com/ONS/status/1304299097717964802?s=19
    Thanks. That is a slightly disappointing bounce. There has to be a concern that as furlough and EOTHO fade away there will be a further loss of upward momentum in Q3/4.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,207
    DavidL said:

    Despite still being in the SM which has been impoverishing this country for more than a decade with ultimately unsustainable deficits. Is this a Covid effect or a Brexit effect? Either way it is welcome.
    Well, yes and no.

    It is good that services exports seem quite unaffected, but the reduction in goods imports is mostly down to reductions in petroleum products, vehicles and machinery.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    I have been very vocal in condemning Boris on this to the extent I believe he should resign
    and I absolutely agree HMG is behaving in an incompetent and self defeating manner.

    However, I still want the divorce from the EU confirmed at the end of the year and continue as a conservative party member
    Therefor HMG and the PM will take your continued membership as 100% support for their actions.
  • eekeek Posts: 29,732
    Boris's problem is that he is already scraping the barrel to find even vaguely plausible replacements..
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited September 2020
    Yes, it seems that the law officers in HMG seems to have determined that their role is no longer to advise the Government on what they must do to avoid staying within the law (with obligation to resign if ministers act in defiance of this), but now their role is to advise the Government on how they can break the law without risk of prosecution/legal consequences.

    This is how far we've fallen in such a rapid period of time.

    And i still return to the point that this bill is hiding far greater issues of constitutional importance than just the ability of ministers to break international law. It allows them to break/rewrite national law without reference to Parliament and with explicit protection from Judicial Review and the courts. It should be called the Enabling Act.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,686

    The math is blissfully simple. He should be 3/1 on. You can back him at 5/4 on (the Party) or 6/5 on (the man himself). You won't often see better betting opportunities than that.
    Agreed.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,165

    I want an amicable divorce but if not it will be no deal
    You haven’t answered the question...
  • alex_ said:

    Is Wales experiencing a particular resurgence compared to the rest of the UK? Or are the vast majority wearing masks without being asked?
    Wales is seeing an increase in covid as is the rest of the UK

    I have noticed an increase in mask wearing but not that substantial
  • Pulpstar said:

    Real, actual North Carolina data

    https://twitter.com/Pulpstar/status/1304317637434933248

    The silver lining if you're GOP is you could say the Democrats are just getting their vote out early. But I'd still say this is good thus far for the blue team.

    And you can still get Biden at 11/10 to win the State. This is remarkable given that he has a small but steady lead in the polls there.
  • In defence of the government, it is impossible to give advice that is both straightforward and deals correctly with every possible circumstance!
    Hardly:
    "Transmission of the virus in enclosed spaces and close proximity means that we are going to have to reinstate some of the measures previously lifted. You MUST maintain 2m distancing from each other at all times. In addition you must now wear a mask at all times when you inside any building that isn't your home or on public transport and in taxis."

    Done. No inconsistencies. No absurdities. Stay the hell away from each other and wear a mask.
  • DavidL said:

    Thanks. That is a slightly disappointing bounce. There has to be a concern that as furlough and EOTHO fade away there will be a further loss of upward momentum in Q3/4.
    These figures are pre-EOTHO aren't they?

  • Yeah, it's hard to say exactly why, but there's always been a lot of resistance to OHMSS...
    That's not OHMSS it's Diamonds are Forever, which is exactly how Fishing describes.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,207

    You started about the same time as me. We've seen the balance change many times and in many ways over that time but I agree that it remains an outstanding forum for varied and intelligent discussion.
    Are you implying that we occasionally go off topic? Moderators please!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,256

    The film is brilliant because it is based very closely on Fleming's book and is directed by Peter Hunt, who is a terrific director. The score by John Barry is also one of his best - excellent.

    Lazenby is actually ok for a newbie (and again I put a lot of that down to Hunt) but is spoiled by being dubbed for almost half the film.

    The bits he gets right are the moving scenes with Tracy, which I think really work.
    The chemistry doesn't work, not least because Rigg and Lazenby couldn't bear each other.

    It is still one of the best Bonds.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    Wales is seeing an increase in covid as is the rest of the UK

    I have noticed an increase in mask wearing but not that substantial
    That doesn't really address the point which is to question whether masks have any material impact (in the way England/Scotland are implementing them, anyway). If in one part of the UK usage is very low, whilst it is largely universal elsewhere (with the gaping exceptions, of course).
  • According to one report, every member of the coronavirus subcommittee was against the "rule of six" apart from Matt Hancock, the Health Secretary, with Rishi Sunak, the Chancellor, among the most vocal opponents.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/09/10/boris-johnson-facing-cabinet-unrest-rule-six/
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Pulpstar said:

    Real, actual North Carolina data

    https://twitter.com/Pulpstar/status/1304317637434933248

    The silver lining if you're GOP is you could say the Democrats are just getting their vote out early. But I'd still say this is good thus far for the blue team.

    3D bar chart? For shame Pulpstar.
This discussion has been closed.