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  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    RobD said:

    He was a diplomat then a mandarin. Does that make someone an expert at national security? It in fact sounds a lot like Frost's background.
    The NSA isn’t meant to be an expert. His job is to synthesise the reports from all the agencies, apply judgement, and brief the PM.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    eristdoof said:

    The top of the table is incredible (in a bad way). New cases today US 34 000, Brazil 28 000, India nearly 20 000. Usually sunday reporting is a bit lower than mid-week aswell.
    Yep. And if you look at the overall charts, global cases and deaths are now heading into a new and second wave, accelerating again (after the initial, mainly European surge)
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,884
    edited June 2020

    Perhaps more relevant to ask what the government's plan is, since they are the people actually in charge. I mean apart from the whole blue passports thing. Seriously, what is their plan?
    To be fair to Mr Goodwin, he was really complaining about a lack of ideas from Remainers as opposed to Cummings, whose speech Gove delivered. Other tweet in thread.

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1277327708775690248

    Now, I wouldn't say the speech was rich in ideas. You have to wade through 40 numbered paragraphs before you get to the first one. I would say he has basically three ideas:

    1. The vulnerable and left behind in society need government support. (This isn't an original idea, but it is an idea nevertheless).
    2. Government should be measured against KPIs (good luck with that one! Brave.)
    3. Government should adopt Agile/Fail Fast (Also brave)

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,278
    eristdoof said:

    The top of the table is incredible (in a bad way). New cases today US 34 000, Brazil 28 000, India nearly 20 000. Usually sunday reporting is a bit lower than mid-week aswell.
    The 5% overall mortality is a pretty stark figure.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,856
    humbugger said:

    Until tonight I never really rated Bowie but this is an amazing set. And yes, she's good.
    Bowie is someone that loads of musicians I love would rave about but I never really discovered most of his material until he died.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,405

    The lass on bass with Bowie is a bit of a star. Her bits on Under Pressure are amazing.

    Our next door neighbour has it on so we're listening to it whether we want to or not. I find Bowie a but meh to be honest.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,369
    LadyG said:

    I suspect the plan WAS to go for a more Singapore-y style UK, but coronavirus has made that impossible, for now.

    To be fair to this often inept government, Who Knew we were gonna be hit by a once-in-a-century pandemic?

    I'm sure it was *a* plan, but it's not a plan that would win 52 % in a national referendum. I used to live in uberBrexit Essex and now am in the Brexit Blue Wall. The people in those places didn't vote for low tax, low regulation. They voted (mainly) for more NHS money and (partially) fewer people coming in and spending that money.

    And that's why Boris, Michael and Dom were snookered, before the virus struck. Because even a majority of 80 is insufficient to make the necessary changes; look at how Sunday trading loosening seems to have been dropped.

    Singapore-on-Thames was always an enjoyable daydream for a certain sort of campaigner. But I don't think it was ever practical politics.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,856
    FF43 said:

    3. Government should adopt Agile/Fail Fast (Also brave)

    What would the fail fast response to Brexit be, if not a decision to can it and choose another strategy?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,278

    I'm sure it was *a* plan, but it's not a plan that would win 52 % in a national referendum. I used to live in uberBrexit Essex and now am in the Brexit Blue Wall. The people in those places didn't vote for low tax, low regulation. They voted (mainly) for more NHS money and (partially) fewer people coming in and spending that money.

    And that's why Boris, Michael and Dom were snookered, before the virus struck. Because even a majority of 80 is insufficient to make the necessary changes; look at how Sunday trading loosening seems to have been dropped.

    Singapore-on-Thames was always an enjoyable daydream for a certain sort of campaigner. But I don't think it was ever practical politics.
    Its never Singapore on Trent is it?

    Always Singapore for the rich...

  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,228
    eristdoof said:

    And Colchester was part of the Roman Empire less than a couple of Millenia ago.
    And it was part of a single European currency! Bring back the Denarii I say.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    edited June 2020
    CatMan said:

    And it was part of a single European currency! Bring back the Denarii I say.
    Right now I would happily vote to rejoin the Roman Empire.

    Sensible policies, strong economy, proper funds for the army, nice wine from Falernum
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,192

    You say that like it would be a bad thing :)
    Anything which adds to the ERG's discomfort would work for me Sadly, I suspect it is going to be the likes of me that is going to have the nightmare come true and the ERG will get what they desire.

    Ironically, Marxism talks about tearing down the existing structures and building anew and seems to have no regard for fiscal policy or business sense ("F*ck business").

    I wonder if Tory Maxism will be less lethal than Corbyn's?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    eristdoof said:

    And Colchester was part of the Roman Empire less than a couple of Millenia ago.
    That was before Brexit I.

  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Foxy said:

    The 5% overall mortality is a pretty stark figure.
    Yep, turns out not "just like flu" afterall
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,884

    What would the fail fast response to Brexit be, if not a decision to can it and choose another strategy?
    Don't ask me. I'm not Cummings. Brexit isn't a sensible thing for the UK to do. The fact that we collectively voted for it (just) and most people (just) think we need to go through with it, doesn't stop Brexit being a big strategic mistake.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,352
    edited June 2020
    LadyG said:

    I'd be very happy with a proper Federal UK, four equal nations, if it meant preserving the Union. Lots of my fellow Englishmen and women feel the same,

    I am surprised that this is acceptable to you? Or are you just being a bit oblique?
    It might have interested me 8 years ago, but subsequent behaviour settled all that hash for me. In any case 85% of UK voters are never going to get off their backsides to make it so.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    edited June 2020
    Floater said:

    Yep, turns out not "just like flu" afterall
    That is CFR not IFR, although I concur this is definitely not the flu
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,782

    Our next door neighbour has it on so we're listening to it whether we want to or not. I find Bowie a but meh to be honest.
    Bowie was great.

    Politically smart/sound, too. This from 1983 ...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZGiVzIr8Qg
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    @ TSE. There is only one direction COVID numbers are going over the next 2-3 weeks and that is terrible to absolutely dreadful
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,352
    humbugger said:

    Until tonight I never really rated Bowie but this is an amazing set. And yes, she's good.
    Slight shame that such a stylish guy appears to be wearing a trouser suit from Wallis c. 2005. Carries it off better than I would, but still..
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,192
    FF43 said:

    3. Government should adopt Agile/Fail Fast (Also brave)

    If they adopt that then we are really all f*cked. Even the creators of Agile have turned their backs on it.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    It might of interested me 8 years ago, but subsequent behaviour settled all that hash for me. In any case 85% of UK voters are never going to get off their backsides to make it so.
    I agree it's a damn shame that English politicians aren't more imaginative in dealing with Scotland: all this pain could have been avoided with a proper Federal Settlement

    Now Scotland looks like facing a terrible binary choice, where one side or the other will be violently aggrieved for a long long time; it will be like Brexit times 20 in a kilt.

    My guess, and it is only a guess, is that Scotland will be like Quebec or Catalonia, never quite making the final leap, but therefore permanently thorny and roiled.

    Maybe a skilful politician will guide us out, somehow.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,192
    Charles said:

    The NSA isn’t meant to be an expert. His job is to synthesise the reports from all the agencies, apply judgement, and brief the PM.
    I have highlighted the weak spot...
  • humbuggerhumbugger Posts: 377

    Slight shame that such a stylish guy appears to be wearing a trouser suit from Wallis c. 2005. Carries it off better than I would, but still..
    The set is from Glasto 2000.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    I have highlighted the weak spot...
    I don’t know David Frost. Do you? On what basis are you saying he has poor judgement?
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    Nigelb said:

    Bowie was great.

    Politically smart/sound, too. This from 1983 ...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZGiVzIr8Qg
    Hmm

    "It didn’t help that David, who died on Sunday aged 69, had once said of
    Hitler: “His overall objective was very good, and he was a marvellous morale
    booster. I mean, he was a perfect figurehead.”"

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/news/136894/do-these-photos-from-1976-show-david-bowie-performing-a-nazi-salute/
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,352
    humbugger said:

    The set is from Glasto 2000.
    Oh well, he was ahead of his time. Wallis though..
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,782
    Not quite sure how to interpret this, but it’s signalling something consequential.

    Just 6% of UK public 'want a return to pre-pandemic economy'
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/28/just-6-of-uk-public-want-a-return-to-pre-pandemic-economy
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,192
    Charles said:

    I don’t know David Frost. Do you? On what basis are you saying he has poor judgement?
    On the basis that Boris does not appear to promote talent. He promotes loyalists. Also Mr Cummings does not appear to tolerate original thought either.

    Mr Frost may or may not have good judgement, but I will be amazed if he is allowed to apply it....
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,352
    LadyG said:

    Hmm

    "It didn’t help that David, who died on Sunday aged 69, had once said of
    Hitler: “His overall objective was very good, and he was a marvellous morale
    booster. I mean, he was a perfect figurehead.”"

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/news/136894/do-these-photos-from-1976-show-david-bowie-performing-a-nazi-salute/
    Hey, that was the coke induced psychosis talking.
    Certain PBers should sympathise.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,342

    Fine. Picture him jogging, or playing tennis. He likes tennis, doesn't he?

    But this photo is just humiliating. An enormous @rse, so to speak.
    I think it's because there is a 25 press up a day challenge going round social media media
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,381

    It might have interested me 8 years ago, but subsequent behaviour settled all that hash for me. In any case 85% of UK voters are never going to get off their backsides to make it so.
    If Labour put it in their manifesto and win the next GE, I guess they would have got off their backsides to make it so.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,856
    isam said:

    I think it's because there is a 25 press up a day challenge going round social media media
    If they're going to get him doing social media crazes, they should make him do "put a finger down, politician edition."
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    edited June 2020
    Nigelb said:

    Not quite sure how to interpret this, but it’s signalling something consequential.

    Just 6% of UK public 'want a return to pre-pandemic economy'
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/28/just-6-of-uk-public-want-a-return-to-pre-pandemic-economy

    Well, they needn't worry. If only we *could* return to a pre-pandemic economy.

    Instead we are going to be significantly poorer for a very long time, with half our high streets shuttered and many offices deserted, with major unemployment and some social unrest guaranteed.

    In addition, there is a non-trivial risk that all this, happening globally, will spiral out of control into major wars, famines and revolutions.

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,856

    If Labour put it in their manifesto and win the next GE, I guess they would have got off their backsides to make it so.
    There is absolutely no indication the Labour party would ever go down that route. What they call federalism is just "nations and regions" devolution.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221

    There is absolutely no indication the Labour party would ever go down that route. What they call federalism is just "nations and regions" devolution.
    Sadly, yes. Labour is too scared of releasing the English genie. They worry that an English parliament would rarely if ever elect a Labour government. Hence their "English regions" bullshit, as a diversion

    A Tory government needs to do Federalism, if it is ever to happen
  • NevaNeva Posts: 14
    On-topic: the implied probability at Betfair for Trump winning the election has fallen below a third.

    Recent statements from three Republican senators:

    * Marco Rubio (Florida): "everyone should just wear a damn mask";

    * Lamar Alexander (chair of Senate health committee): "it would help if from time to time the President would wear one";

    * Mitchell McConnell (Senate majority chair): "until we find a vaccine, [masks] are really important"... "[at] various events, people are not wearing masks [and are] not doing others a favour".

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Re David Bowie, though not a huge fan do recognize he was a genius - "Space Oddity" alone proves that fact.

    As for his politics, don't really care, same as with most artists, unless they go out of the way to make political/social statements with their music, for example Johnny Cash, the Man in Black for a reason.

    As for his statement re: Hitler, the Fuhrer's basic GOALS may be deemed good, in sense that he strove for long-term happy future for his country and the world - problem was his evil methods, namely totalitarianism, antisemitism, conquest & genocide just to mention a few. And Adolf certainly was one hell (in more ways than one) of a motivational speaker and iconic figurehead.

    Could be wrong, but methinks Bowie was approaching this from an artistic perspective (just like his wardrobe choices) and not thinking overmuch about the politics, history or morality of Hitler's foul deeds and legacy.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    So, those BLM protests, that miraculously haven't caused a spike....


    https://twitter.com/AbeGreenwald/status/1277364056790351883?s=20
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    "...but Ambassador to Denmark isn't quite so security-relevant..."(uniondivvie)

    Well, he helped keep the neo-Vikings from re-occupying the Danelaw, didn't he?
  • fox327fox327 Posts: 373
    LadyG said:

    Yep. And if you look at the overall charts, global cases and deaths are now heading into a new and second wave, accelerating again (after the initial, mainly European surge)
    I think people are still in two minds over the epidemic. They don't want a second wave, but it is so easy for them to slip back into "normal" behaviour. I visited a McDonald's restaurant today. Yes things were not normal, but they were tantalizingly close to being normal. Many people are still expecting things to go back to normal "soon".

    Yet on Andrew Marr today, Sir Jeremy Farrar said that the virus has not lost any of its potency. He implied that we could wait for 1 year, 100 years or 200 years, and the virus would still be just as infectious and dangerous.

    Waiting will change nothing except to exhaust people's patience, causing society to gradually give up on the lockdown. The epidemic will not wait for a vaccine to arrive. If a vaccine does not arrive by the end of 2021, it could be too late as herd immunity will be approaching by then in some countries.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    fox327 said:

    I think people are still in two minds over the epidemic. They don't want a second wave, but it is so easy for them to slip back into "normal" behaviour. I visited a McDonald's restaurant today. Yes things were not normal, but they were tantalizingly close to being normal. Many people are still expecting things to go back to normal "soon".

    Yet on Andrew Marr today, Sir Jeremy Farrar said that the virus has not lost any of its potency. He implied that we could wait for 1 year, 100 years or 200 years, and the virus would still be just as infectious and dangerous.

    Waiting will change nothing except to exhaust people's patience, causing society to gradually give up on the lockdown. The epidemic will not wait for a vaccine to arrive. If a vaccine does not arrive by the end of 2021, it could be too late as herd immunity will be approaching by then in some countries.
    I spoke to a designer friend today. She is artistic and clever, if a bit ditzy. She told me, simply, "Well, it's gone away now, hasn't it, have you heard of anyone catching it?"



  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,716
    edited June 2020
    fox327 said:

    I think people are still in two minds over the epidemic. They don't want a second wave, but it is so easy for them to slip back into "normal" behaviour. I visited a McDonald's restaurant today. Yes things were not normal, but they were tantalizingly close to being normal. Many people are still expecting things to go back to normal "soon".

    Yet on Andrew Marr today, Sir Jeremy Farrar said that the virus has not lost any of its potency. He implied that we could wait for 1 year, 100 years or 200 years, and the virus would still be just as infectious and dangerous.

    Waiting will change nothing except to exhaust people's patience, causing society to gradually give up on the lockdown. The epidemic will not wait for a vaccine to arrive. If a vaccine does not arrive by the end of 2021, it could be too late as herd immunity will be approaching by then in some countries.
    This is another failure of the British messaging, the Japanese is explicitly about the "new lifestyle" of "with corona".

    You can't do everything exactly the way you were before, but you also don't need massively disruption. Britain has had massive disruption because it failed to make the less disruptive changes that could have stopped the disease early on. Because its government is so astonishingly shit, there's a good chance it's now going to fail to make them again, then do the massive disruption again.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,651

    Masks are hugely uncomfortable, and a very significant social barrier.

    I only wear them in close proximity environments in public (like trains or the tube) and I possibly would in a busy office too.

    Otherwise, it's a rather dystopian placebo.
    They are not great for people who are deaf and need to lip read nor for those with asthma.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    edited June 2020
    Pretty scary data from the USA. The whole thread is ominous


    https://twitter.com/COVID19Tracking/status/1277365084440817664?s=20
  • https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-project-speed-infrastructure-keir-starmer-coronavirus-a9590191.html

    Seems like this has been focus grouped to death.

    "Talk talk talk", it's all about fostering a "them and us" narrative
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,782
    LadyG said:

    Hmm

    "It didn’t help that David, who died on Sunday aged 69, had once said of
    Hitler: “His overall objective was very good, and he was a marvellous morale
    booster. I mean, he was a perfect figurehead.”"

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/archives/news/136894/do-these-photos-from-1976-show-david-bowie-performing-a-nazi-salute/
    You’ll be the first to appreciate the pernicious effects of heroic drug intake.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    Nigelb said:

    You’ll be the first to appreciate the pernicious effects of heroic drug intake.
    As a reclusive sapphic painter of gentle amphibian life, I assure I have never ingested anything more exotic than a pinch of snuff, sniffed from the proffered and delicate hand of a vivacious Slovak ballet dancer
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,651

    Fine. Picture him jogging, or playing tennis. He likes tennis, doesn't he?

    But this photo is just humiliating. An enormous @rse, so to speak.
    There’s a pretty filthy joke comes to mind on seeing that image.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,601

    "...but Ambassador to Denmark isn't quite so security-relevant..."(uniondivvie)

    Well, he helped keep the neo-Vikings from re-occupying the Danelaw, didn't he?

    Oh sure, people say it won't happen again, but take our eye off the ball even for a second and BAM they've retaken York.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Cyclefree said:


    There’s a pretty filthy joke comes to mind on seeing that image.
    Cyclefree!!!! :smiley:
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,782
    LadyG said:

    As a reclusive sapphic painter of gentle amphibian life, I assure I have never ingested anything more exotic than a pinch of snuff, sniffed from the proffered and delicate hand of a vivacious Slovak ballet dancer
    Precisely.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    LadyG said:

    Pretty scary data from the USA. The whole thread is ominous


    https://twitter.com/COVID19Tracking/status/1277365084440817664?s=20

    I remember Trump saying it was all ok and his decisive action had avoided an outbreak ..... hows that working out Trumpy?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,782
    Cyclefree said:


    There’s a pretty filthy joke comes to mind on seeing that image.
    Yes - it’s prostrate on the floor.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,278
    Cyclefree said:


    There’s a pretty filthy joke comes to mind on seeing that image.
    He's shagging the Invisible Woman?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,601
    LadyG said:

    Actually, her examples are not very good; from memory, Williamson has done considerably worse
    Perhaps she intended to work her way upwards to see at what point even LRM finally twigged what a nasty piece of work Williamson is.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    LadyG said:

    As a reclusive sapphic painter of gentle amphibian life, I assure I have never ingested anything more exotic than a pinch of snuff, sniffed from the proffered and delicate hand of a vivacious Slovak ballet dancer
    Bolivian marching powder was it?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,601

    I have sometimes thought that declaring English independence would be a good move. It certainly makes Northern Ireland someone else's problem.
    I fear that many things remain a problem even after they are excised or voluntarily leave one nation.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,651
    nico67 said:

    So a national security adviser who knows zip about national security ! Should fit in well with the rest of the clueless lapdogs in the cabinet .

    The Russians and Chinese will be pleased.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,601
    Scott_xP said:
    It's a ridiculous attitude to hold that willfully ignores the point of the service. If they feel it is not adequately working toward the programmes of government - something I suspect many would have sympathy for - that is an issue which can reasonably be complained about and resolutions sought, but requiring proof of a political stance equivalent to a blood oath of loyalty is not only dumb, but malevolent.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    Floater said:

    I remember Trump saying it was all ok and his decisive action had avoided an outbreak ..... hows that working out Trumpy?
    For balance, the US death toll so far today is the lowest since late March?

    But deaths are a lagging indicator, of course, and the rapid increase in cases and hospitalisations in Az, Ca, Tx, likely means a new surge in deaths a week or two down the line - unless treatments really are improving superbly

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,419
    edited June 2020

    Gail Ann Dorsey. Apparently she played with his band for years.

    And of course Earl Slick is there.
    She also play with The National
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,651
    Charles said:

    The NSA isn’t meant to be an expert. His job is to synthesise the reports from all the agencies, apply judgement, and brief the PM.
    He’s not meant to be an ignoramus on the topic either. Why would his judgment on such a sensitive area be worth listening to? And, no I don’t know him but I did read his speech on Britain’s approach to a deal with the EU and it struck me as so much piss and wind.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,333
    edited June 2020



    One thing to bear in mind is that the Surrey satellite proposal was *hated* by the big UK aerospace contractors. If you start by reducing costs by billions, where would such things end?

    Is this satire? Surrey Satellites is 100% owned and operated by Airbus Defence & Space. They are not exactly the plucky disruptive outsiders you paint them to be.
  • LadyGLadyG Posts: 2,221
    edited June 2020
    I am away to watch Medici: the Magnificent, which, it turns out, is really rather good. Netflix.

    Goodnight all
  • Re David Bowie, though not a huge fan do recognize he was a genius - "Space Oddity" alone proves that fact.

    As for his politics, don't really care, same as with most artists, unless they go out of the way to make political/social statements with their music, for example Johnny Cash, the Man in Black for a reason.

    As for his statement re: Hitler, the Fuhrer's basic GOALS may be deemed good, in sense that he strove for long-term happy future for his country and the world - problem was his evil methods, namely totalitarianism, antisemitism, conquest & genocide just to mention a few. And Adolf certainly was one hell (in more ways than one) of a motivational speaker and iconic figurehead.

    Could be wrong, but methinks Bowie was approaching this from an artistic perspective (just like his wardrobe choices) and not thinking overmuch about the politics, history or morality of Hitler's foul deeds and legacy.

    I have a different take on Bowie/Hitler. Hitler was all kinds of awful, but his (probably only) redeeming quality was his candidness. He was never shy about his intentions.
    The title of his personal manifesto tells us, that his - and by extension and projection 'his' peoples' - eternal struggle was his Leitmotif. From the very beginning to the bitter end.
    I feel that this element of eternal unrest might have somehow resonated with Bowie's undying desire to leave the latest shell he had built and reinvent himself once more.

    Hitler's "GOAL" - after having the won the ultimate struggle - was the idea of a 'master race' living off the subjugation, and ultimately enslavement, of 'lesser races'. I'm not sure that can seriously be considered to be good.
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,303
    LadyG said:

    Well, they needn't worry. If only we *could* return to a pre-pandemic economy.

    Instead we are going to be significantly poorer for a very long time, with half our high streets shuttered and many offices deserted, with major unemployment and some social unrest guaranteed.

    In addition, there is a non-trivial risk that all this, happening globally, will spiral out of control into major wars, famines and revolutions.

    There are some upsides as well as downsides. My young lady hasn't been to her office since March, and therefore has saved a small fortune in commuting costs with almost no downside. She'd like the world to go back to normal in lots of ways, but I don't think she's in any hurry to go back to commuting - so that means she probably isn't part of that 6%. Longer term, if we marry one of us would have had to give up our jobs (We live167 miles apart) - as things stand, I think she might well be able to get it agreed that she can work remotely on a permanent basis.

    Of course this isn't the same as saying no to "would you could rerun 2020 without covid, if you could?" Things are undoubtedly worse now than they were before in many ways - but with some of the changes being for the better, I hope some of those changes stick around.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,107
    edited June 2020
    By a 41.3% to 39.5% margin a plurality of Tory members say Robert Jenrick should resign from the government

    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2020/06/our-survey-by-a-wafer-thin-margin-a-plurality-of-our-party-member-panel-says-that-jenrick-should-resign.html
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    I have a different take on Bowie/Hitler. Hitler was all kinds of awful, but his (probably only) redeeming quality was his candidness. He was never shy about his intentions.
    The title of his personal manifesto tells us, that his - and by extension and projection 'his' peoples' - eternal struggle was his Leitmotif. From the very beginning to the bitter end.
    I feel that this element of eternal unrest might have somehow resonated with Bowie's undying desire to leave the latest shell he had built and reinvent himself once more.

    Hitler's "GOAL" - after having the won the ultimate struggle - was the idea of a 'master race' living off the subjugation, and ultimately enslavement, of 'lesser races'. I'm not sure that can seriously be considered to be good.
    Your right about master race & untermenschen, but then AH thought THAT was the way to human happiness - you & yours truly beg to differ.

    As for his candidness, note that English translation of Mein Kampf as authorized by the author was CAREFUL edited and matter deemed too unsettling for Anglo-American readers was omitted when others - including future US Senator Alan Cranston (D-CA) attempted to publish the whole hog over here, AH sued them in American courts for copywrite infringement - and won. Also, it's interesting that no direct order by Hitler to kill all the Jews has ever been found - which was certainly NOT candid. And doubt that Chamberlain or Churchill would agree with you on this point, as well as Mussolini and Stalin (the original Uncle Joe).
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,303
    Phil said:


    Same here with a different Android phone. Happens with both Firefox and Chrome. The chop is about 2/3 of the first character which is quite annoying!
    I use Opera on an android (Pixel 3a), hitting "show desktop site" cures the problem with the cut off text.

    The comments don't load at all on the new mobile site.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Nigelb said:

    Precisely.
    Having met a few Slovak chicks in my day, can testify that their small homeland produces more than it's fair share of attractive, charming & talented women.
  • NevaNeva Posts: 14
    edited June 2020
    Charles Gasparino works for the Fox Business Network.

    https://twitter.com/CGasparino/status/1277280827462868994
    Meanwhile, SCOTUS will probably rule soon on Trump's tax returns.

    Trump is taking an awful lot of blows without landing any.

  • Your right about master race & untermenschen, but then AH thought THAT was the way to human happiness - you & yours truly beg to differ.

    As for his candidness, note that English translation of Mein Kampf as authorized by the author was CAREFUL edited and matter deemed too unsettling for Anglo-American readers was omitted when others - including future US Senator Alan Cranston (D-CA) attempted to publish the whole hog over here, AH sued them in American courts for copywrite infringement - and won. Also, it's interesting that no direct order by Hitler to kill all the Jews has ever been found - which was certainly NOT candid. And doubt that Chamberlain or Churchill would agree with you on this point, as well as Mussolini and Stalin (the original Uncle Joe).
    Thank you for the thoughtful answer.
    I do agree that "being candid about his intentions" does not at all equal being honest about his methods or being a trustworthy and reliable ally. I was more trying to point out that nobody could (or should) have held any illusions about what he was ultimately up to, after the mid-twenties.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Thank you for the thoughtful answer.
    I do agree that "being candid about his intentions" does not at all equal being honest about his methods or being a trustworthy and reliable ally. I was more trying to point out that nobody could (or should) have held any illusions about what he was ultimately up to, after the mid-twenties.
    Matthias, you are spot on re:illusions. Amazing how many smart folks drank the kool-aid, or leastways took a few sips.

    Off topic - before I forget, thanks to you and your fellow Hamburgers for giving the US one of our most beloved and iconic culinary delicacies! Esp. in the good old summertime. Danke schön!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,419
    HYUFD said:
    British Council does survey and discovers Britain is best.

    In other news, the Académie Française has just done a study and discovered that the French language is the best in the world.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,716
    Neva said:

    Charles Gasparino works for the Fox Business Network.

    https://twitter.com/CGasparino/status/1277280827462868994
    Meanwhile, SCOTUS will probably rule soon on Trump's tax returns.

    Trump is taking an awful lot of blows without landing any.

    How would everybody handicap a Biden vs Ivanka race?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,856

    How would everybody handicap a Biden vs Ivanka race?
    Accelerating his 2024 handover plan sounds remarkably plausible.
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,031

    image.

    Ugh. Had to see Nick Timothy's face. Should come with a warning.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Floater: "I remember Trump saying it was all ok and his decisive action had avoided an outbreak ..... hows that working out Trumpy?"

    Correction, that should be TrumpSKy, Donald Fredrikovich Trumsky

    FUN FACTOID - did you know that MAGAman's grand-daddy died from the Spanish Influenza in 1918? He was a businessman, land speculator, brothel-keeper, and fraudster , with cheating the government a speciality - truly the apples do NOT fall far from the tree!

    Curious that his sad demise seems to have left no familial memory in what passes for his grandson's brain.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    "Trump is taking an awful lot of blows without landing any."

    Worse, he can't stop kicking himself in the ass.

    As for Ivanka, she couldn't sell yoga pants at a Weight Watchers convention, virtual or otherwise.

    Think all this talk of replacing Trumpsky is BS. Might try to do it AFTER Election Day, but doubt even Bobblehead (aka Mike Pence) is dumb enough to give him a pardon - look how great THAT worked out for Jerry Ford.

    Sound like wishful thinking by GOP hacks trying to avoid the tidal wave bearing down upon them: the slaughter of the guilty & dipshits.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,150

    Gail Ann Dorsey. Apparently she played with his band for years.

    A brilliant musician in her own right.

    All of her albums are superb.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,133
    edited June 2020
    New thread
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,103
    LadyG said:

    Plenty of us down here are still ardent Unionists. We would be sad to see you go, despite the constant shower of turnip insults
    Yes indeed many many nice ones but you have more than your fair share of arseholes who only wish us ill
This discussion has been closed.