politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Submission or No Deal: where do the Brexit talks end up this y
politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Submission or No Deal: where do the Brexit talks end up this year?
If it was going to happen, it would have done so months ago. Confirmation yesterday that Britain would not exercise its right to request an extension to the Brexit transition period was one of the more predictable events of 2020. Despite the ravages wreaked on the UK economy by the Covid-19 pandemic and the shutdown it necessitated, the danger of a No-FTA exit creating yet more barriers to trade and growth was always one the government was going to accept.
Comments
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OT hate the symmetrical diagonals on the flag. Why do graphic designers do that?2
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Again this goes back to David Cameron not forcing the Brexiteers to identify and agree upon the end-state of the Brexit process.
In political terms, yes, Covid-19 provides a good pandemic to bury bad Brexit news, and Boris has recruited the leading Brexiteer MPs into his Cabinet so it is unlikely any protests about the wrong sort of Brexits will extend beyond fringe players, and now Nigel Farage has contrived to lose his media platform.
Economic damage? Surely no Conservative believes Project Fear, the economic projections formerly known as Conservative Party policy.
And it is, sadly, unsurprising that Boris scrapped the Cabinet's pandemic committee last year in order to spend more time on Brexit. What could possibly go wrong?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8416075/Boris-Johnson-scrapped-Cabinet-Ministers-pandemic-team-six-months-coronavirus-hit-Britain.html1 -
It's clear what a deal would like on the most contentious points. Zero tariff, zero quota access to the SIngle Market for goods (including fish and other agri produce) in exchange for EU access to UK fishing grounds that is a bit less than now and the UK maintaining level playing field obligations that are the same as now, including most controversially on State Aid.
There's not a lot of point in arguing over the basic content of the deal, although people will. (Detail does matter). Question is whether both sides will accept it.
People are only just beginning to realise just how bureaucratic Brexit will be. Arguably bureaucracy is the whole point of Brexit. It's "taking control" made flesh. It does mean some people will in practice be prevented from doing things that they took for granted before and companies will give up on chunks of business they used to do because it will be too difficult or too expensive.
Covid-19 compounded with Brexit makes for a grim economic context. We're not talking about growth foregone any more.
One thing I am sure of is this won't be end of the long Brexit process. Even if it goes No Deal in December, the UK never having an agreement with the EU on anything at all, ever, is unrealistic in my view. In which case State Aid etc will come back onto the table. And if we do agree a deal we can look forward to years of further negotiation on things that are essential to the UK.0 -
Good to see an article exploring the technique of ending with a QTWTAIN.
It is a shame that Boris has been spending his political capital faster than Rishi has been spending printed £.1 -
The question is what does Boris have against Britain to put it through this s on top of everything else.2
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I'm sorry but this is ridiculous, the referendum said Leave and Boris was elected with a clear mandate to get us out after May prevaricated and paid the price.
Any talk that Brexit may not happen is utter bollox.
But I'm beginning to realise that some on here aren't too fussed about democracy.0 -
Worth it? No.3
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Tories have fucked up a sensible Brexit
Tories have fucked up the economy
Tories have fucked up Covid 19 and left us with the most per capita pandemic deaths of any major Nation
Still lead 43% to 38% though.
0 -
The 4th sentence suggests the first 3 aren't entirely truebigjohnowls said:Tories have fucked up a sensible Brexit
Tories have fucked up the economy
Tories have fucked up Covid 19 and left us with the most per capita pandemic deaths of any major Nation
Still lead 43% to 38% though.0 -
What does that say about how rubbish Labour have been BJO?bigjohnowls said:Tories have fucked up a sensible Brexit
Tories have fucked up the economy
Tories have fucked up Covid 19 and left us with the most per capita pandemic deaths of any major Nation
Still lead 43% to 38% though.
It is worth remembering that no government had ever increased its majority after more than eight years in power before.
And yet somehow this abject excuse for a government did.2 -
Labour members have a lot to answer for.bigjohnowls said:Tories have fucked up a sensible Brexit
Tories have fucked up the economy
Tories have fucked up Covid 19 and left us with the most per capita pandemic deaths of any major Nation
Still lead 43% to 38% though.0 -
Or that people aren't yet aware of 3. Aren't yet impacted by 2 and dont care about 1coach said:
The 4th sentence suggests the first 3 aren't entirely truebigjohnowls said:Tories have fucked up a sensible Brexit
Tories have fucked up the economy
Tories have fucked up Covid 19 and left us with the most per capita pandemic deaths of any major Nation
Still lead 43% to 38% though.0 -
Disagree. They are all statements of fact.coach said:
The 4th sentence suggests the first 3 aren't entirely truebigjohnowls said:Tories have fucked up a sensible Brexit
Tories have fucked up the economy
Tories have fucked up Covid 19 and left us with the most per capita pandemic deaths of any major Nation
Still lead 43% to 38% though.
The fourth sentence merely suggests other factors are at play.
Edit - although that said, we can’t be sure of the third one yet. And it will take time before we have reliable statistics that tell us who comes where in this grim table.
But on the information we have, it’s a reasonable statement. We’ve certainly suffered very badly when we had every advantage of geography.1 -
That's not the case, Mr C. We suspect that we are living through, if not the end of 'democracy', a time when the process has become corrupted. It's easy, and understandable, to say the public was 'informed' before they voted, but with majority of the popular media being against the EU, and in many cases quite prepared to publish blatant untruths...... straight bananas anyone ....... many of us are concerned that, as the saying goes, the country is going to hell in a handcart.coach said:I'm sorry but this is ridiculous, the referendum said Leave and Boris was elected with a clear mandate to get us out after May prevaricated and paid the price.
Any talk that Brexit may not happen is utter bollox.
But I'm beginning to realise that some on here aren't too fussed about democracy.
And we're worried. In my case, I don't suppose it'll make an enormous difference but I have grandchildren who are young people in this country, and what does it hold for them?
I grew up in the 50's, in the shadow of WWII and in the greyness of those times. I saw, and still see, the European project as providing the opportunities for development and creativity. I don't see Brexit Britain as a land of opportunity, but one hedged about with restrictions. Opportunities for the wealthy perhaps, but not for ordinary people.
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Especially those that sabotaged 2017IanB2 said:
Labour members have a lot to answer for.bigjohnowls said:Tories have fucked up a sensible Brexit
Tories have fucked up the economy
Tories have fucked up Covid 19 and left us with the most per capita pandemic deaths of any major Nation
Still lead 43% to 38% though.0 -
Did Brown cause the 2008 global crisis? Yes/nobigjohnowls said:
Or that people aren't yet aware of 3. Aren't yet impacted by 2 and dont care about 1coach said:
The 4th sentence suggests the first 3 aren't entirely truebigjohnowls said:Tories have fucked up a sensible Brexit
Tories have fucked up the economy
Tories have fucked up Covid 19 and left us with the most per capita pandemic deaths of any major Nation
Still lead 43% to 38% though.
Did Boris cause the 2020 global crisis? Yes/no
See where this is leading?0 -
Indeedcoach said:
Did Brown cause the 2008 global crisis? Yes/nobigjohnowls said:
Or that people aren't yet aware of 3. Aren't yet impacted by 2 and dont care about 1coach said:
The 4th sentence suggests the first 3 aren't entirely truebigjohnowls said:Tories have fucked up a sensible Brexit
Tories have fucked up the economy
Tories have fucked up Covid 19 and left us with the most per capita pandemic deaths of any major Nation
Still lead 43% to 38% though.
Did Boris cause the 2020 global crisis? Yes/no
See where this is leading?0 -
Easy answer to both. No.coach said:
Did Brown cause the 2008 global crisis? Yes/nobigjohnowls said:
Or that people aren't yet aware of 3. Aren't yet impacted by 2 and dont care about 1coach said:
The 4th sentence suggests the first 3 aren't entirely truebigjohnowls said:Tories have fucked up a sensible Brexit
Tories have fucked up the economy
Tories have fucked up Covid 19 and left us with the most per capita pandemic deaths of any major Nation
Still lead 43% to 38% though.
Did Boris cause the 2020 global crisis? Yes/no
See where this is leading?
Did their incompetence and hubris make matters a hundred times worse when the crisis hit? As the great Ed Miliband would say, ‘Hell, yes.’2 -
So your original post was a bit silly reallybigjohnowls said:
Indeedcoach said:
Did Brown cause the 2008 global crisis? Yes/nobigjohnowls said:
Or that people aren't yet aware of 3. Aren't yet impacted by 2 and dont care about 1coach said:
The 4th sentence suggests the first 3 aren't entirely truebigjohnowls said:Tories have fucked up a sensible Brexit
Tories have fucked up the economy
Tories have fucked up Covid 19 and left us with the most per capita pandemic deaths of any major Nation
Still lead 43% to 38% though.
Did Boris cause the 2020 global crisis? Yes/no
See where this is leading?0 -
Indeed. That would still be Corbyn, Formby, Abbott, Macdonnell, Murphy and Milne. They’re the incompetent clowns who ran on an uncosted manifesto that nobody took seriously while pretending they weren’t racist. So I’m 100% with you there.bigjohnowls said:
Especially those that sabotaged 2017IanB2 said:
Labour members have a lot to answer for.bigjohnowls said:Tories have fucked up a sensible Brexit
Tories have fucked up the economy
Tories have fucked up Covid 19 and left us with the most per capita pandemic deaths of any major Nation
Still lead 43% to 38% though.2 -
Yes yes yes I've heard it a million times.OldKingCole said:
That's not the case, Mr C. We suspect that we are living through, if not the end of 'democracy', a time when the process has become corrupted. It's easy, and understandable, to say the public was 'informed' before they voted, but with majority of the popular media being against the EU, and in many cases quite prepared to publish blatant untruths...... straight bananas anyone ....... many of us are concerned that, as the saying goes, the country is going to hell in a handcart.coach said:I'm sorry but this is ridiculous, the referendum said Leave and Boris was elected with a clear mandate to get us out after May prevaricated and paid the price.
Any talk that Brexit may not happen is utter bollox.
But I'm beginning to realise that some on here aren't too fussed about democracy.
And we're worried. In my case, I don't suppose it'll make an enormous difference but I have grandchildren who are young people in this country, and what does it hold for them?
I grew up in the 50's, in the shadow of WWII and in the greyness of those times. I saw, and still see, the European project as providing the opportunities for development and creativity. I don't see Brexit Britain as a land of opportunity, but one hedged about with restrictions. Opportunities for the wealthy perhaps, but not for ordinary people.
And what you have to do now is have another vote and campaign to rejoin and we'll all decide again.
See what I mean about democracy, you're not too keen on it are you?0 -
Formby wasnt in place in 2017 if she had been Labour HQ would not have sabotaged their own party and the aforesaid Corbyn would have been PM and we would have hadydoethur said:
Indeed. That would still be Corbyn, Formby, Abbott, Macdonnell, Murphy and Milne. They’re the incompetent clowns who ran on an uncosted manifesto that nobody took seriously while pretending they weren’t racist. So I’m 100% with you there.bigjohnowls said:
Especially those that sabotaged 2017IanB2 said:
Labour members have a lot to answer for.bigjohnowls said:Tories have fucked up a sensible Brexit
Tories have fucked up the economy
Tories have fucked up Covid 19 and left us with the most per capita pandemic deaths of any major Nation
Still lead 43% to 38% though.
A sensible BREXIT
A thriving Economy
and German rates of Covid deaths
The bed sheets are all wet.0 -
Is this satire or are you being serious?bigjohnowls said:
Formby wasnt in place in 2017 if she had been Labour HQ would not have sabotages their own party and the aforesaid Corbyn would have been PM and we would have hadydoethur said:
Indeed. That would still be Corbyn, Formby, Abbott, Macdonnell, Murphy and Milne. They’re the incompetent clowns who ran on an uncosted manifesto that nobody took seriously while pretending they weren’t racist. So I’m 100% with you there.bigjohnowls said:
Especially those that sabotaged 2017IanB2 said:
Labour members have a lot to answer for.bigjohnowls said:Tories have fucked up a sensible Brexit
Tories have fucked up the economy
Tories have fucked up Covid 19 and left us with the most per capita pandemic deaths of any major Nation
Still lead 43% to 38% though.
A sensible BREXIT
A thriving Economy
and German rates of Covid deaths
The bed sheets are all wet.
Apologies if the joke is on me I'm quite new here
PS I really hope its satirical and you don't believe what you just typed0 -
You are new herecoach said:
Is this satire or are you being serious?bigjohnowls said:
Formby wasnt in place in 2017 if she had been Labour HQ would not have sabotages their own party and the aforesaid Corbyn would have been PM and we would have hadydoethur said:
Indeed. That would still be Corbyn, Formby, Abbott, Macdonnell, Murphy and Milne. They’re the incompetent clowns who ran on an uncosted manifesto that nobody took seriously while pretending they weren’t racist. So I’m 100% with you there.bigjohnowls said:
Especially those that sabotaged 2017IanB2 said:
Labour members have a lot to answer for.bigjohnowls said:Tories have fucked up a sensible Brexit
Tories have fucked up the economy
Tories have fucked up Covid 19 and left us with the most per capita pandemic deaths of any major Nation
Still lead 43% to 38% though.
A sensible BREXIT
A thriving Economy
and German rates of Covid deaths
The bed sheets are all wet.
Apologies if the joke is on me I'm quite new here
PS I really hope its satirical and you don't believe what you just typed0 -
In which case I now know its satire and you don't actually believe the tripe you typed.bigjohnowls said:
You are new herecoach said:
Is this satire or are you being serious?bigjohnowls said:
Formby wasnt in place in 2017 if she had been Labour HQ would not have sabotages their own party and the aforesaid Corbyn would have been PM and we would have hadydoethur said:
Indeed. That would still be Corbyn, Formby, Abbott, Macdonnell, Murphy and Milne. They’re the incompetent clowns who ran on an uncosted manifesto that nobody took seriously while pretending they weren’t racist. So I’m 100% with you there.bigjohnowls said:
Especially those that sabotaged 2017IanB2 said:
Labour members have a lot to answer for.bigjohnowls said:Tories have fucked up a sensible Brexit
Tories have fucked up the economy
Tories have fucked up Covid 19 and left us with the most per capita pandemic deaths of any major Nation
Still lead 43% to 38% though.
A sensible BREXIT
A thriving Economy
and German rates of Covid deaths
The bed sheets are all wet.
Apologies if the joke is on me I'm quite new here
PS I really hope its satirical and you don't believe what you just typed
Apologies0 -
Bridges for sale...bigjohnowls said:
Formby wasnt in place in 2017 if she had been Labour HQ would not have sabotaged their own party and the aforesaid Corbyn would have been PM and we would have hadydoethur said:
Indeed. That would still be Corbyn, Formby, Abbott, Macdonnell, Murphy and Milne. They’re the incompetent clowns who ran on an uncosted manifesto that nobody took seriously while pretending they weren’t racist. So I’m 100% with you there.bigjohnowls said:
Especially those that sabotaged 2017IanB2 said:
Labour members have a lot to answer for.bigjohnowls said:Tories have fucked up a sensible Brexit
Tories have fucked up the economy
Tories have fucked up Covid 19 and left us with the most per capita pandemic deaths of any major Nation
Still lead 43% to 38% though.
A sensible BREXIT
A thriving Economy
and German rates of Covid deaths
The bed sheets are all wet.
Look, a competent Labour leader could have beaten Theresa May in 2017. (As it happens, that’s not a helpful counterfactual as had a competent Labour leader been in place the election would never have been called, nor would the Tories have run on a hard-right manifesto. But that’s not the point.) Corbyn couldn’t. He was a transparent liar standing on a manifesto that was patently uncosted backed by a shadow cabinet whose members made Gavin Williamson look a model of talent and probity. That he ran May close says a lot about her that she doubtless found unflattering.
And if he were in charge now, things would be worse, not better. Johnson is lazy, but he’s not totally stupid. Corbyn is both. True, the current cabinet is very weak. But does anyone seriously think it’s weaker than a cabinet which would have included Burgon? As for the economy, it would have collapsed by now due to the strains imposed on it by Corbyn’s ideas. Heck, we’re seeing some of them play out with this pandemic, and it isn’t pretty to watch.
The real story of 2019 probably wasn’t the bizarre landslide for a paralysed government of clowns. It was reflecting that with a slightly different approach in 2017 May could have hit 400 seats.
PS - incidentally, Formby was political director of Unite and a member of Labour’s NEC in 2017. She did play a big role in Corbynite politics that was little more than formalised by being general secretary.0 -
Good Saturday morning piece by David as usual. Assuming we break the last chain from the EU on 31st December with only the most necessary deal (i.e. stopping planes falling out of the sky, EU citizens already here remaining here etc) Boris will have kept his most fundamental promise to the 17.4 million who voted for Brexit.
Many of the industries which hated Brexit with a passion are among those suffering most from Covid-19 anyway and a great many of the threatened job losses will now be lost, not because of Brexit but because Covid-19 will have changed the way we live permanently.
In addition the EU including Germany has borrowed up to the hilt just as we have, in order to cope with Covid-19. No matter what the EU says, individual EU member states will do what is in its best interests. In the case of Malta, Cyprus, Portugal, Greece and Spain that will mean what is needed to keep British people coming on holiday once holidays start once more. For Germany it will be engine parts. For France it will be their farmers.
This is no longer a one-sided negotiation, for anyone who thought it was.
As for Keir Starmer and the leader ratings, he is bound to have good ratings because he is a) not Jeremy Corbyn and b) hasn't had to do anything yet. I would not be surprised if the British public (well the pro Brexit non Metropolitan public) will grow to dislike his slightly robotic personality, much needed for forensic cross-examination but not exactly making someone the life and soul of the party.2 -
Meanwhile, under the radar but well worth a watch if you missed it, this week’s Panorama with the scandal of how a government owned organisation covered up its failings, leading to the suicide, bankruptcy and false imprisonment of entirely innocent people:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000gpbv/panorama-scandal-at-the-post-office
The government is currently under pressure from all sides to concede a judicial inquiry.1 -
This really is a disgraceIanB2 said:Meanwhile, under the radar but well worth a watch if you missed it, this week’s Panorama with the scandal of how a government owned organisation covered up its failings, leading to the suicide, bankruptcy and false imprisonment of entirely innocent people:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000gpbv/panorama-scandal-at-the-post-office
The government is currently under pressure from all sides to concede a judicial inquiry.0 -
Well, that’s alright then.....?NorthCadboll said:
Many of the industries which hated Brexit with a passion are among those suffering most from Covid-19 anyway and a great many of the threatened job losses will now be lost, not because of Brexit but because [of] Covid-190 -
The Rona would have probably killed Corbo if he were PM which would have been a bit of a laugh. We'd probably have JMcD as PM now who would have been way competent than Johnson at managing these multiple overlapping crises.3
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Not in Scotland.bigjohnowls said:Tories have fucked up a sensible Brexit
Tories have fucked up the economy
Tories have fucked up Covid 19 and left us with the most per capita pandemic deaths of any major Nation
Still lead 43% to 38% though.
SNP lead 30 points for Westminster VI, and 32 points for Holyrood VI.
Why can Scots see through the charlatan Johnson and his cronies, but the English are caught like bunnies in the headlights?0 -
Yes it's worth it.0
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Compounded by the then CEO responsible being rushed out of the job just days before the PO was excoriated in court, and lined up with a job in the Cabinet Office and the chairmanship of a London NHS Trust. The cabinet office job had to go once the media started digging into the scandal but she still sits atop the Trust.coach said:
This really is a disgraceIanB2 said:Meanwhile, under the radar but well worth a watch if you missed it, this week’s Panorama with the scandal of how a government owned organisation covered up its failings, leading to the suicide, bankruptcy and false imprisonment of entirely innocent people:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000gpbv/panorama-scandal-at-the-post-office
The government is currently under pressure from all sides to concede a judicial inquiry.5 -
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McDonnell is an interesting one. He’s one of two shadow ministers under Corbyn (Starmer being the other, with Thornbury a poor third) who was clearly very bright. He was (is) also one of the few Labour MPs with imagination and could read the public mood with great shrewdness.Dura_Ace said:The Rona would have probably killed Corbo if he were PM which would have been a bit of a laugh. We'd probably have JMcD as PM now who would have been way competent than Johnson at managing these multiple overlapping crises.
But in a sense, that only makes the rubbish he spouted about ‘fully costed manifestoes’ all the more reprehensible.
(I also doubt if he would have become PM, given his illness. Indeed, youwould have expected CV19 to kill him if he were exposed to it. I think he’d have been more likely to nominate somebody to be his puppet, as in effect he did with Corbyn. Maybe Trickett or Lavery.)3 -
And how rubbish the Liberal Democrats have been.ydoethur said:
What does that say about how rubbish Labour have been BJO?bigjohnowls said:Tories have fucked up a sensible Brexit
Tories have fucked up the economy
Tories have fucked up Covid 19 and left us with the most per capita pandemic deaths of any major Nation
Still lead 43% to 38% though.0 -
Pinhead. This country is not and never has been a direct democracy, and either you have never noticed or you don't mind (because I don't hear you complain on a weekly basis that the government has decided something for itself *again* instead of putting it to a plebiscite). And for good reason; the average voter is as well equipped to decide on complex matters of state as my horse is.coach said:
Yes yes yes I've heard it a million times.OldKingCole said:
That's not the case, Mr C. We suspect that we are living through, if not the end of 'democracy', a time when the process has become corrupted. It's easy, and understandable, to say the public was 'informed' before they voted, but with majority of the popular media being against the EU, and in many cases quite prepared to publish blatant untruths...... straight bananas anyone ....... many of us are concerned that, as the saying goes, the country is going to hell in a handcart.coach said:I'm sorry but this is ridiculous, the referendum said Leave and Boris was elected with a clear mandate to get us out after May prevaricated and paid the price.
Any talk that Brexit may not happen is utter bollox.
But I'm beginning to realise that some on here aren't too fussed about democracy.
And we're worried. In my case, I don't suppose it'll make an enormous difference but I have grandchildren who are young people in this country, and what does it hold for them?
I grew up in the 50's, in the shadow of WWII and in the greyness of those times. I saw, and still see, the European project as providing the opportunities for development and creativity. I don't see Brexit Britain as a land of opportunity, but one hedged about with restrictions. Opportunities for the wealthy perhaps, but not for ordinary people.
And what you have to do now is have another vote and campaign to rejoin and we'll all decide again.
See what I mean about democracy, you're not too keen on it are you?
Yebbut dimmocracee innit, you reply. No, it's ochlocracy.1 -
More top quality satire on here this morning!Dura_Ace said:The Rona would have probably killed Corbo if he were PM which would have been a bit of a laugh. We'd probably have JMcD as PM now who would have been way competent than Johnson at managing these multiple overlapping crises.
1 -
Because Sturgeon is in power. All the advantages of incumbency currently accruing to the Tories accrue to her. This is even helping Drakeford, who goodness knows would be out of his depth running a village shop.StuartDickson said:
Not in Scotland.bigjohnowls said:Tories have fucked up a sensible Brexit
Tories have fucked up the economy
Tories have fucked up Covid 19 and left us with the most per capita pandemic deaths of any major Nation
Still lead 43% to 38% though.
SNP lead 30 points for Westminster VI, and 32 points for Holyrood VI.
Why can Scots see through the charlatan Johnson and his cronies, but the English are caught like bunnies in the headlights?
She is playing the game better than the Tories at the moment (admittedly a phrase of mine about limbo dancing mice springs to mind). We none of us know how this will play out in the next twelve months though.0 -
Every advantage of geography?ydoethur said:
Disagree. They are all statements of fact.coach said:
The 4th sentence suggests the first 3 aren't entirely truebigjohnowls said:Tories have fucked up a sensible Brexit
Tories have fucked up the economy
Tories have fucked up Covid 19 and left us with the most per capita pandemic deaths of any major Nation
Still lead 43% to 38% though.
The fourth sentence merely suggests other factors are at play.
Edit - although that said, we can’t be sure of the third one yet. And it will take time before we have reliable statistics that tell us who comes where in this grim table.
But on the information we have, it’s a reasonable statement. We’ve certainly suffered very badly when we had every advantage of geography.
We are an interconnected globalised nation with one of the highest rates of urbanisation and population density of major developed nations. That certainly has a role to play.0 -
Yescoach said:
Did Brown cause the 2008 global crisis? Yes/nobigjohnowls said:
Or that people aren't yet aware of 3. Aren't yet impacted by 2 and dont care about 1coach said:
The 4th sentence suggests the first 3 aren't entirely truebigjohnowls said:Tories have fucked up a sensible Brexit
Tories have fucked up the economy
Tories have fucked up Covid 19 and left us with the most per capita pandemic deaths of any major Nation
Still lead 43% to 38% though.
Did Boris cause the 2020 global crisis? Yes/no
See where this is leading?
No0 -
Karl Pearson was a socialist. He declined an OBE. He was a prominent free-thinker. He supported the suffragettes. He admired Karl Marx.
He was a famous applied statistician at University College, London.
He was a eugenicist (as were many early twentieth century socialists).
So, he is joining statisticians Galton and Fisher on the naughty step.
The Pearson Building at UCL is being renamed.
0 -
Yes, I think that’s true as well. I defended her at the time but with hindsight Swinson’s leadership was a catalogue of serious errors.StuartDickson said:
And how rubbish the Liberal Democrats have been.ydoethur said:
What does that say about how rubbish Labour have been BJO?bigjohnowls said:Tories have fucked up a sensible Brexit
Tories have fucked up the economy
Tories have fucked up Covid 19 and left us with the most per capita pandemic deaths of any major Nation
Still lead 43% to 38% though.
Whether Davey can do better remains to be seen.0 -
We’re also a series of islands.Philip_Thompson said:
Every advantage of geography?ydoethur said:
Disagree. They are all statements of fact.coach said:
The 4th sentence suggests the first 3 aren't entirely truebigjohnowls said:Tories have fucked up a sensible Brexit
Tories have fucked up the economy
Tories have fucked up Covid 19 and left us with the most per capita pandemic deaths of any major Nation
Still lead 43% to 38% though.
The fourth sentence merely suggests other factors are at play.
Edit - although that said, we can’t be sure of the third one yet. And it will take time before we have reliable statistics that tell us who comes where in this grim table.
But on the information we have, it’s a reasonable statement. We’ve certainly suffered very badly when we had every advantage of geography.
We are an interconnected globalised nation with one of the highest rates of urbanisation and population density of major developed nations. That certainly has a role to play.0 -
We left already. Nobody is talking about Brexit not happening because Brexit has already happened. End of January. Were you asleep?coach said:I'm sorry but this is ridiculous, the referendum said Leave and Boris was elected with a clear mandate to get us out after May prevaricated and paid the price.
Any talk that Brexit may not happen is utter bollox.
But I'm beginning to realise that some on here aren't too fussed about democracy.0 -
To troll people, they could call it Apeson instead.YBarddCwsc said:
Karl Pearson was a socialist. He declined an OBE. He was a prominent free-thinker. He supported the suffragettes. He admired Karl Marx.
He was a famous applied statistician at University College, London.
He was a eugenicist (as were many early twentieth century socialists).
So, he is joining statisticians Galton and Fisher on the naughty step.
The Pearson Building at UCL is being renamed.0 -
The LibDems will not recover until the name Sir Nicholas William Peter Clegg has been forgotten.ydoethur said:
Yes, I think that’s true as well. I defended her at the time but with hindsight Swinson’s leadership was a catalogue of serious errors.
Whether Davey can do better remains to be seen.0 -
No it just points out how thick people are in England nowadayscoach said:
The 4th sentence suggests the first 3 aren't entirely truebigjohnowls said:Tories have fucked up a sensible Brexit
Tories have fucked up the economy
Tories have fucked up Covid 19 and left us with the most per capita pandemic deaths of any major Nation
Still lead 43% to 38% though.0 -
Of course the problem with the great betrayal narrative is that May secured a 20+% increase in Tory votes. The traitors in Labour HQ did a brilliant job of targeting so that despite the Tories massive vote increase on their 2015 majority haul, Labour still added 30 seats.bigjohnowls said:
Formby wasnt in place in 2017 if she had been Labour HQ would not have sabotaged their own party and the aforesaid Corbyn would have been PM and we would have hadydoethur said:
Indeed. That would still be Corbyn, Formby, Abbott, Macdonnell, Murphy and Milne. They’re the incompetent clowns who ran on an uncosted manifesto that nobody took seriously while pretending they weren’t racist. So I’m 100% with you there.bigjohnowls said:
Especially those that sabotaged 2017IanB2 said:
Labour members have a lot to answer for.bigjohnowls said:Tories have fucked up a sensible Brexit
Tories have fucked up the economy
Tories have fucked up Covid 19 and left us with the most per capita pandemic deaths of any major Nation
Still lead 43% to 38% though.
A sensible BREXIT
A thriving Economy
and German rates of Covid deaths
The bed sheets are all wet.0 -
Just been taking a delve in the detailed tables of the latest full-sample Scottish poll. The breaks are even more depressing for Unionists than the headline 52% pro-independence, 48% pro-subjugation.
The young are overwhelmingly pro-independence, especially younger women (under 35): 69% are pro-sovereignty.
Astonishingly, 40% of SLab voters (2019) are pro-independence. This confirms my theory that the Labour block is absolutely key to winning back our independence.
8% of Yes voters from 2014 have now changed their minds and would vote No today, but a whopping 20% of 2014 No voters have switched in the other direction.
60% want Scotland to re-join the European Union, and that is the baseline before the shit has hit the fan.
https://www.drg.global/wp-content/uploads/W15247-ScotGoesPop-for-publication-v2-050620.pdf0 -
OKC, talking sense to a plank is useless.OldKingCole said:
That's not the case, Mr C. We suspect that we are living through, if not the end of 'democracy', a time when the process has become corrupted. It's easy, and understandable, to say the public was 'informed' before they voted, but with majority of the popular media being against the EU, and in many cases quite prepared to publish blatant untruths...... straight bananas anyone ....... many of us are concerned that, as the saying goes, the country is going to hell in a handcart.coach said:I'm sorry but this is ridiculous, the referendum said Leave and Boris was elected with a clear mandate to get us out after May prevaricated and paid the price.
Any talk that Brexit may not happen is utter bollox.
But I'm beginning to realise that some on here aren't too fussed about democracy.
And we're worried. In my case, I don't suppose it'll make an enormous difference but I have grandchildren who are young people in this country, and what does it hold for them?
I grew up in the 50's, in the shadow of WWII and in the greyness of those times. I saw, and still see, the European project as providing the opportunities for development and creativity. I don't see Brexit Britain as a land of opportunity, but one hedged about with restrictions. Opportunities for the wealthy perhaps, but not for ordinary people.0 -
Decision reported 20 February after a 2 year enquiry.YBarddCwsc said:
Karl Pearson was a socialist. He declined an OBE. He was a prominent free-thinker. He supported the suffragettes. He admired Karl Marx.
He was a famous applied statistician at University College, London.
He was a eugenicist (as were many early twentieth century socialists).
So, he is joining statisticians Galton and Fisher on the naughty step.
The Pearson Building at UCL is being renamed.
For context.0 -
Utter bollox, more like a disunited inward looking shithole of a unionPhilip_Thompson said:
Every advantage of geography?ydoethur said:
Disagree. They are all statements of fact.coach said:
The 4th sentence suggests the first 3 aren't entirely truebigjohnowls said:Tories have fucked up a sensible Brexit
Tories have fucked up the economy
Tories have fucked up Covid 19 and left us with the most per capita pandemic deaths of any major Nation
Still lead 43% to 38% though.
The fourth sentence merely suggests other factors are at play.
Edit - although that said, we can’t be sure of the third one yet. And it will take time before we have reliable statistics that tell us who comes where in this grim table.
But on the information we have, it’s a reasonable statement. We’ve certainly suffered very badly when we had every advantage of geography.
We are an interconnected globalised nation with one of the highest rates of urbanisation and population density of major developed nations. That certainly has a role to play.0 -
Is an island that has millions crossing it's border every single week back in February really an island?ydoethur said:
We’re also a series of islands.Philip_Thompson said:
Every advantage of geography?ydoethur said:
Disagree. They are all statements of fact.coach said:
The 4th sentence suggests the first 3 aren't entirely truebigjohnowls said:Tories have fucked up a sensible Brexit
Tories have fucked up the economy
Tories have fucked up Covid 19 and left us with the most per capita pandemic deaths of any major Nation
Still lead 43% to 38% though.
The fourth sentence merely suggests other factors are at play.
Edit - although that said, we can’t be sure of the third one yet. And it will take time before we have reliable statistics that tell us who comes where in this grim table.
But on the information we have, it’s a reasonable statement. We’ve certainly suffered very badly when we had every advantage of geography.
We are an interconnected globalised nation with one of the highest rates of urbanisation and population density of major developed nations. That certainly has a role to play.
The irony is that Eastern European landlocked nations back in February were probably more of an island in hindsight.0 -
***** Betting Post *****
Do unfulfilled political ambitions perhaps lie behind George Osborne's decision yesterday to quit as editor of the London Evening Standard? Certainly if there was ever a time for him to commence manoeuvres, that time is probably now.
From a betting perspective, those nice folk at Ladbrokes are offering to boost their odds against him being the next Conservative Leader from 100/1 to 130/1. Of course to further his cause, he would first need to secure a seat in the HOC.
DYOR.0 -
Shit just got real.
There’s no marmite in Sainsbury’s.0 -
It is just a matter of time before someone suggests renaming the Fisher Information matrix or Pearson's correlation coefficient.ydoethur said:
To troll people, they could call it Apeson instead.YBarddCwsc said:
Karl Pearson was a socialist. He declined an OBE. He was a prominent free-thinker. He supported the suffragettes. He admired Karl Marx.
He was a famous applied statistician at University College, London.
He was a eugenicist (as were many early twentieth century socialists).
So, he is joining statisticians Galton and Fisher on the naughty step.
The Pearson Building at UCL is being renamed.
In fact, scientific nomenclature needs a deep clean.
Removing the Nazi sympathisers alone is a big, big job (the Heisenberg Uncertainty principle, the Stark effect, the Bieberbach conjecture, Teichmuller theory).
There is a whole new continent of wokeful renaming waiting to be discovered.1 -
You think the idea that we are urbanised and high population density is utter bollox?malcolmg said:
Utter bollox, more like a disunited inward looking shithole of a unionPhilip_Thompson said:
Every advantage of geography?ydoethur said:
Disagree. They are all statements of fact.coach said:
The 4th sentence suggests the first 3 aren't entirely truebigjohnowls said:Tories have fucked up a sensible Brexit
Tories have fucked up the economy
Tories have fucked up Covid 19 and left us with the most per capita pandemic deaths of any major Nation
Still lead 43% to 38% though.
The fourth sentence merely suggests other factors are at play.
Edit - although that said, we can’t be sure of the third one yet. And it will take time before we have reliable statistics that tell us who comes where in this grim table.
But on the information we have, it’s a reasonable statement. We’ve certainly suffered very badly when we had every advantage of geography.
We are an interconnected globalised nation with one of the highest rates of urbanisation and population density of major developed nations. That certainly has a role to play.
I know you can't see past Scotland but I didn't realise you were so blinkered you couldn't see past the Scottish Highlands alone.0 -
That begs the question - why were we allowing millions of people to cross our borders?Philip_Thompson said:
Is an island that has millions crossing it's border every single week back in February really an island?ydoethur said:
We’re also a series of islands.Philip_Thompson said:
Every advantage of geography?ydoethur said:
Disagree. They are all statements of fact.coach said:
The 4th sentence suggests the first 3 aren't entirely truebigjohnowls said:Tories have fucked up a sensible Brexit
Tories have fucked up the economy
Tories have fucked up Covid 19 and left us with the most per capita pandemic deaths of any major Nation
Still lead 43% to 38% though.
The fourth sentence merely suggests other factors are at play.
Edit - although that said, we can’t be sure of the third one yet. And it will take time before we have reliable statistics that tell us who comes where in this grim table.
But on the information we have, it’s a reasonable statement. We’ve certainly suffered very badly when we had every advantage of geography.
We are an interconnected globalised nation with one of the highest rates of urbanisation and population density of major developed nations. That certainly has a role to play.
The irony is that Eastern European landlocked nations back in February were probably more of an island in hindsight.0 -
-
@IshmaelZIshmaelZ said:
Pinhead. This country is not and never has been a direct democracy, and either you have never noticed or you don't mind (because I don't hear you complain on a weekly basis that the government has decided something for itself *again* instead of putting it to a plebiscite). And for good reason; the average voter is as well equipped to decide on complex matters of state as my horse is.coach said:
Yes yes yes I've heard it a million times.OldKingCole said:
That's not the case, Mr C. We suspect that we are living through, if not the end of 'democracy', a time when the process has become corrupted. It's easy, and understandable, to say the public was 'informed' before they voted, but with majority of the popular media being against the EU, and in many cases quite prepared to publish blatant untruths...... straight bananas anyone ....... many of us are concerned that, as the saying goes, the country is going to hell in a handcart.coach said:I'm sorry but this is ridiculous, the referendum said Leave and Boris was elected with a clear mandate to get us out after May prevaricated and paid the price.
Any talk that Brexit may not happen is utter bollox.
But I'm beginning to realise that some on here aren't too fussed about democracy.
And we're worried. In my case, I don't suppose it'll make an enormous difference but I have grandchildren who are young people in this country, and what does it hold for them?
I grew up in the 50's, in the shadow of WWII and in the greyness of those times. I saw, and still see, the European project as providing the opportunities for development and creativity. I don't see Brexit Britain as a land of opportunity, but one hedged about with restrictions. Opportunities for the wealthy perhaps, but not for ordinary people.
And what you have to do now is have another vote and campaign to rejoin and we'll all decide again.
See what I mean about democracy, you're not too keen on it are you?
Yebbut dimmocracee innit, you reply. No, it's ochlocracy.
Ishmael, excellent new word of the day there, first time I have ever seen it.1 -
Because the science as advised by SAGE, Nervtag and the World Health Organisation was that we should.ydoethur said:
That begs the question - why were we allowing millions of people to cross our borders?Philip_Thompson said:
Is an island that has millions crossing it's border every single week back in February really an island?ydoethur said:
We’re also a series of islands.Philip_Thompson said:
Every advantage of geography?ydoethur said:
Disagree. They are all statements of fact.coach said:
The 4th sentence suggests the first 3 aren't entirely truebigjohnowls said:Tories have fucked up a sensible Brexit
Tories have fucked up the economy
Tories have fucked up Covid 19 and left us with the most per capita pandemic deaths of any major Nation
Still lead 43% to 38% though.
The fourth sentence merely suggests other factors are at play.
Edit - although that said, we can’t be sure of the third one yet. And it will take time before we have reliable statistics that tell us who comes where in this grim table.
But on the information we have, it’s a reasonable statement. We’ve certainly suffered very badly when we had every advantage of geography.
We are an interconnected globalised nation with one of the highest rates of urbanisation and population density of major developed nations. That certainly has a role to play.
The irony is that Eastern European landlocked nations back in February were probably more of an island in hindsight.
Any other questions?0 -
Good morning, everyone.
Cheers for that, Mr. Putney. Put a small sum on.0 -
Then they'll be the junior partner in another coalition, betray half their supporters, and collapse once more.YBarddCwsc said:
The LibDems will not recover until the name Sir Nicholas William Peter Clegg has been forgotten.ydoethur said:
Yes, I think that’s true as well. I defended her at the time but with hindsight Swinson’s leadership was a catalogue of serious errors.
Whether Davey can do better remains to be seen.
FPTP is very cruel to non-regional minor parties3 -
I'd be surprised. Like Portillo and Balls, he's a better person outside politics; it is very hard to make a success of re-entry.peter_from_putney said:***** Betting Post *****
Do unfulfilled political ambitions perhaps lie behind George Osborne's decision yesterday to quit as editor of the London Evening Standard? Certainly if there was ever a time for him to commence manoeuvres, that time is probably now.
From a betting perspective, those nice folk at Ladbrokes are offering to boost their odds against him being the next Conservative Leader from 100/1 to 130/1. Of course to further his cause, he would first need to secure a seat in the HOC.
DYOR.2 -
He's been binge-watching Outlander again.Philip_Thompson said:malcolmg said:
Utter bollox, more like a disunited inward looking shithole of a unionPhilip_Thompson said:
Every advantage of geography?ydoethur said:
Disagree. They are all statements of fact.coach said:
The 4th sentence suggests the first 3 aren't entirely truebigjohnowls said:Tories have fucked up a sensible Brexit
Tories have fucked up the economy
Tories have fucked up Covid 19 and left us with the most per capita pandemic deaths of any major Nation
Still lead 43% to 38% though.
The fourth sentence merely suggests other factors are at play.
Edit - although that said, we can’t be sure of the third one yet. And it will take time before we have reliable statistics that tell us who comes where in this grim table.
But on the information we have, it’s a reasonable statement. We’ve certainly suffered very badly when we had every advantage of geography.
We are an interconnected globalised nation with one of the highest rates of urbanisation and population density of major developed nations. That certainly has a role to play.
You think the idea that we are urbanised and high population density is utter bollox?
I know you can't see past Scotland but I didn't realise you were so blinkered you couldn't see past the Scottish Highlands alone.1 -
The overpopulated urbanised England part was correct , the remainder was utter bollox.Philip_Thompson said:
You think the idea that we are urbanised and high population density is utter bollox?malcolmg said:
Utter bollox, more like a disunited inward looking shithole of a unionPhilip_Thompson said:
Every advantage of geography?ydoethur said:
Disagree. They are all statements of fact.coach said:
The 4th sentence suggests the first 3 aren't entirely truebigjohnowls said:Tories have fucked up a sensible Brexit
Tories have fucked up the economy
Tories have fucked up Covid 19 and left us with the most per capita pandemic deaths of any major Nation
Still lead 43% to 38% though.
The fourth sentence merely suggests other factors are at play.
Edit - although that said, we can’t be sure of the third one yet. And it will take time before we have reliable statistics that tell us who comes where in this grim table.
But on the information we have, it’s a reasonable statement. We’ve certainly suffered very badly when we had every advantage of geography.
We are an interconnected globalised nation with one of the highest rates of urbanisation and population density of major developed nations. That certainly has a role to play.
I know you can't see past Scotland but I didn't realise you were so blinkered you couldn't see past the Scottish Highlands alone.0 -
That was half of it. So you already half think it was right.malcolmg said:
The overpopulated urbanised England part was correct , the remainder was utter bollox.Philip_Thompson said:
You think the idea that we are urbanised and high population density is utter bollox?malcolmg said:
Utter bollox, more like a disunited inward looking shithole of a unionPhilip_Thompson said:
Every advantage of geography?ydoethur said:
Disagree. They are all statements of fact.coach said:
The 4th sentence suggests the first 3 aren't entirely truebigjohnowls said:Tories have fucked up a sensible Brexit
Tories have fucked up the economy
Tories have fucked up Covid 19 and left us with the most per capita pandemic deaths of any major Nation
Still lead 43% to 38% though.
The fourth sentence merely suggests other factors are at play.
Edit - although that said, we can’t be sure of the third one yet. And it will take time before we have reliable statistics that tell us who comes where in this grim table.
But on the information we have, it’s a reasonable statement. We’ve certainly suffered very badly when we had every advantage of geography.
We are an interconnected globalised nation with one of the highest rates of urbanisation and population density of major developed nations. That certainly has a role to play.
I know you can't see past Scotland but I didn't realise you were so blinkered you couldn't see past the Scottish Highlands alone.
The other half was interconnected and globalised. Do you really think that's bollocks? You think we aren't an interconnected or globalised nation?0 -
Stay in your lane, Mondeo Man.coach said:
More top quality satire on here this morning!Dura_Ace said:The Rona would have probably killed Corbo if he were PM which would have been a bit of a laugh. We'd probably have JMcD as PM now who would have been way competent than Johnson at managing these multiple overlapping crises.
1 -
But not yet implemented (I believe, at least according to the website).IshmaelZ said:
Decision reported 20 February after a 2 year enquiry.YBarddCwsc said:
Karl Pearson was a socialist. He declined an OBE. He was a prominent free-thinker. He supported the suffragettes. He admired Karl Marx.
He was a famous applied statistician at University College, London.
He was a eugenicist (as were many early twentieth century socialists).
So, he is joining statisticians Galton and Fisher on the naughty step.
The Pearson Building at UCL is being renamed.
For context.
Eugenics was very prevalent in left-wing circles, of course. As well as right-wing circles.
So, if you go hunting for eugenicists to rename, you will end up with most of the famous academics, writers & intellectuals of the early twentieth century.
Of course, you will also end up with a lot of Liberal MPs in your net, as the Darwins were Liberals.
0 -
Would you agree that the world is a different place to 2016 and that the relationship between the world's largest trading blocks has deteriorated since 2016.Philip_Thompson said:
That was half of it. So you already half think it was right.malcolmg said:
The overpopulated urbanised England part was correct , the remainder was utter bollox.Philip_Thompson said:
You think the idea that we are urbanised and high population density is utter bollox?malcolmg said:
Utter bollox, more like a disunited inward looking shithole of a unionPhilip_Thompson said:
Every advantage of geography?ydoethur said:
Disagree. They are all statements of fact.coach said:
The 4th sentence suggests the first 3 aren't entirely truebigjohnowls said:Tories have fucked up a sensible Brexit
Tories have fucked up the economy
Tories have fucked up Covid 19 and left us with the most per capita pandemic deaths of any major Nation
Still lead 43% to 38% though.
The fourth sentence merely suggests other factors are at play.
Edit - although that said, we can’t be sure of the third one yet. And it will take time before we have reliable statistics that tell us who comes where in this grim table.
But on the information we have, it’s a reasonable statement. We’ve certainly suffered very badly when we had every advantage of geography.
We are an interconnected globalised nation with one of the highest rates of urbanisation and population density of major developed nations. That certainly has a role to play.
I know you can't see past Scotland but I didn't realise you were so blinkered you couldn't see past the Scottish Highlands alone.
The other half was interconnected and globalised. Do you really think that's bollocks? You think we aren't an interconnected or globalised nation?
I ask that because my answer would be that we are less interconnected and / or globalised then we were then, the world has moved against our globalised nation plan.
0 -
His resignation probably has more to do with the rather bleak future facing the ES.IanB2 said:
I'd be surprised. Like Portillo and Balls, he's a better person outside politics; it is very hard to make a success of re-entry.peter_from_putney said:***** Betting Post *****
Do unfulfilled political ambitions perhaps lie behind George Osborne's decision yesterday to quit as editor of the London Evening Standard? Certainly if there was ever a time for him to commence manoeuvres, that time is probably now.
From a betting perspective, those nice folk at Ladbrokes are offering to boost their odds against him being the next Conservative Leader from 100/1 to 130/1. Of course to further his cause, he would first need to secure a seat in the HOC.
DYOR.0 -
The fact that Nats can only get to 48% including Don't Knows, just 3% higher than 2014, despite Brexit is not depressing at all to Unionists. The only people who should be depressed with that are Nats.StuartDickson said:Just been taking a delve in the detailed tables of the latest full-sample Scottish poll. The breaks are even more depressing for Unionists than the headline 52% pro-independence, 48% pro-subjugation.
The young are overwhelmingly pro-independence, especially younger women (under 35): 69% are pro-sovereignty.
Astonishingly, 40% of SLab voters (2019) are pro-independence. This confirms my theory that the Labour block is absolutely key to winning back our independence.
8% of Yes voters from 2014 have now changed their minds and would vote No today, but a whopping 20% of 2014 No voters have switched in the other direction.
60% want Scotland to re-join the European Union, and that is the baseline before the shit has hit the fan.
https://www.drg.global/wp-content/uploads/W15247-ScotGoesPop-for-publication-v2-050620.pdf
Of course the government has also ruled out indyref2 for a generation anyway, respecting the 'once in a generation' 2014 vote0 -
Very keen on democracy.... But not when it is corrupted.coach said:
Yes yes yes I've heard it a million times.OldKingCole said:
That's not the case, Mr C. We suspect that we are living through, if not the end of 'democracy', a time when the process has become corrupted. It's easy, and understandable, to say the public was 'informed' before they voted, but with majority of the popular media being against the EU, and in many cases quite prepared to publish blatant untruths...... straight bananas anyone ....... many of us are concerned that, as the saying goes, the country is going to hell in a handcart.coach said:I'm sorry but this is ridiculous, the referendum said Leave and Boris was elected with a clear mandate to get us out after May prevaricated and paid the price.
Any talk that Brexit may not happen is utter bollox.
But I'm beginning to realise that some on here aren't too fussed about democracy.
And we're worried. In my case, I don't suppose it'll make an enormous difference but I have grandchildren who are young people in this country, and what does it hold for them?
I grew up in the 50's, in the shadow of WWII and in the greyness of those times. I saw, and still see, the European project as providing the opportunities for development and creativity. I don't see Brexit Britain as a land of opportunity, but one hedged about with restrictions. Opportunities for the wealthy perhaps, but not for ordinary people.
And what you have to do now is have another vote and campaign to rejoin and we'll all decide again.
See what I mean about democracy, you're not too keen on it are you?0 -
He's become Editor in Chief.ThomasNashe said:
His resignation probably has more to do with the rather bleak future facing the ES.IanB2 said:
I'd be surprised. Like Portillo and Balls, he's a better person outside politics; it is very hard to make a success of re-entry.peter_from_putney said:***** Betting Post *****
Do unfulfilled political ambitions perhaps lie behind George Osborne's decision yesterday to quit as editor of the London Evening Standard? Certainly if there was ever a time for him to commence manoeuvres, that time is probably now.
From a betting perspective, those nice folk at Ladbrokes are offering to boost their odds against him being the next Conservative Leader from 100/1 to 130/1. Of course to further his cause, he would first need to secure a seat in the HOC.
DYOR.0 -
What does the Editor in Chief do?rottenborough said:
He's become Editor in Chief.ThomasNashe said:
His resignation probably has more to do with the rather bleak future facing the ES.IanB2 said:
I'd be surprised. Like Portillo and Balls, he's a better person outside politics; it is very hard to make a success of re-entry.peter_from_putney said:***** Betting Post *****
Do unfulfilled political ambitions perhaps lie behind George Osborne's decision yesterday to quit as editor of the London Evening Standard? Certainly if there was ever a time for him to commence manoeuvres, that time is probably now.
From a betting perspective, those nice folk at Ladbrokes are offering to boost their odds against him being the next Conservative Leader from 100/1 to 130/1. Of course to further his cause, he would first need to secure a seat in the HOC.
DYOR.
How has the ES survived thus far without an Editor in Chief?0 -
The key to any deal is if the government is willing to accept the EU terms of essentially staying in the single market bar free movement for a FTA.
That would probably be enough for the median voter now Brexit has been delivered but not the Leave diehards, who might return to the Brexit Party, or diehards on the Tory backbenches0 -
Yes; have you heard of the is-ought fallacy?Philip_Thompson said:
Because the science as advised by SAGE, Nervtag and the World Health Organisation was that we should.ydoethur said:
That begs the question - why were we allowing millions of people to cross our borders?Philip_Thompson said:
Is an island that has millions crossing it's border every single week back in February really an island?ydoethur said:
We’re also a series of islands.Philip_Thompson said:
Every advantage of geography?ydoethur said:
Disagree. They are all statements of fact.coach said:
The 4th sentence suggests the first 3 aren't entirely truebigjohnowls said:Tories have fucked up a sensible Brexit
Tories have fucked up the economy
Tories have fucked up Covid 19 and left us with the most per capita pandemic deaths of any major Nation
Still lead 43% to 38% though.
The fourth sentence merely suggests other factors are at play.
Edit - although that said, we can’t be sure of the third one yet. And it will take time before we have reliable statistics that tell us who comes where in this grim table.
But on the information we have, it’s a reasonable statement. We’ve certainly suffered very badly when we had every advantage of geography.
We are an interconnected globalised nation with one of the highest rates of urbanisation and population density of major developed nations. That certainly has a role to play.
The irony is that Eastern European landlocked nations back in February were probably more of an island in hindsight.
Any other questions?0 -
Get paid a little less in return for doing a lot less, since someone else is now doing the work.YBarddCwsc said:
What does the Editor in Chief do?rottenborough said:
He's become Editor in Chief.ThomasNashe said:
His resignation probably has more to do with the rather bleak future facing the ES.IanB2 said:
I'd be surprised. Like Portillo and Balls, he's a better person outside politics; it is very hard to make a success of re-entry.peter_from_putney said:***** Betting Post *****
Do unfulfilled political ambitions perhaps lie behind George Osborne's decision yesterday to quit as editor of the London Evening Standard? Certainly if there was ever a time for him to commence manoeuvres, that time is probably now.
From a betting perspective, those nice folk at Ladbrokes are offering to boost their odds against him being the next Conservative Leader from 100/1 to 130/1. Of course to further his cause, he would first need to secure a seat in the HOC.
DYOR.
How has the ES survived thus far without an Editor in Chief?0 -
'Worth it?'. Well I imagine 48% of 2016 voters would say No. And it seems likely that a good few % more would also say No -- at least if aware of the probable consequences. I doubt it can be said that this is what "we" voted for.0
-
We have left.coach said:I'm sorry but this is ridiculous, the referendum said Leave and Boris was elected with a clear mandate to get us out after May prevaricated and paid the price.
Any talk that Brexit may not happen is utter bollox.
But I'm beginning to realise that some on here aren't too fussed about democracy.
Pretending that we don’t have to negotiate trade arrangements as a result is just silly.3 -
I agree that there will not be a bespoke deal but a deal is still possible, indeed likely. The shape of that deal is in the transitional agreement. Whilst a sticking point or two is possible there is a consensus that both sides want zero tariff free access to each other's markets. Both want at least some degree of mutual recognition of standards so that NTBs are avoided. Both want minimum disruption to existing supply chains.
The tricky bits are the LPF conditions and the status of NI. The UK cannot accept restrictions on State aid when Rishi has already lent £20bn and counting to businesses to help with Covid. The EU are of course doing the same. Its possible that there might be an agreement that State aid limitations are suspended for 5 years or so and this is looked at again later.
NI remains tricky because there is a strong Irish desire not to have any conditionality on the movement of goods in the island. That either means no conditionality anywhere (possible but unlikely) or different rules. This problem has not gone away.
The Brexit process will not end but it will reach another key stage. Future agreements, co-operation and equivalents to what we had as members are all too likely but they will be third party agreements negotiated at arms length.2 -
Was it?Philip_Thompson said:
Because the science as advised by SAGE, Nervtag and the World Health Organisation was that we should.ydoethur said:
That begs the question - why were we allowing millions of people to cross our borders?Philip_Thompson said:
Is an island that has millions crossing it's border every single week back in February really an island?ydoethur said:
We’re also a series of islands.Philip_Thompson said:
Every advantage of geography?ydoethur said:
Disagree. They are all statements of fact.coach said:
The 4th sentence suggests the first 3 aren't entirely truebigjohnowls said:Tories have fucked up a sensible Brexit
Tories have fucked up the economy
Tories have fucked up Covid 19 and left us with the most per capita pandemic deaths of any major Nation
Still lead 43% to 38% though.
The fourth sentence merely suggests other factors are at play.
Edit - although that said, we can’t be sure of the third one yet. And it will take time before we have reliable statistics that tell us who comes where in this grim table.
But on the information we have, it’s a reasonable statement. We’ve certainly suffered very badly when we had every advantage of geography.
We are an interconnected globalised nation with one of the highest rates of urbanisation and population density of major developed nations. That certainly has a role to play.
The irony is that Eastern European landlocked nations back in February were probably more of an island in hindsight.
Any other questions?
Science is only advising on a part of the political decision, in any case. Responsibility for weighing up the many other aspects of the equation, including economics, behaviour, international and public opinion sits with the politicians, as does actual accountability.
When the crisis began it seemed encouraging that the government was letting us hear from the leading scientists directly. But now things are going pear-shaped it is shabby the way our political leaders are trying to offload the blame.0 -
The Government prevented us hearing from leading scientists when they feared we would learn inconvenient truths.IanB2 said:When the crisis began it seemed encouraging that the government was letting us hear from the leading scientists directly. But now things are going pear-shaped it is shabby the way our political leaders are trying to offload the blame.
4 -
We voted for Brexit, Brexit has been delivered by Boris.alednam said:'Worth it?'. Well I imagine 48% of 2016 voters would say No. And it seems likely that a good few % more would also say No -- at least if aware of the probable consequences. I doubt it can be said that this is what "we" voted for.
If people want to rejoin the single market they can vote for Starmer or the LDs in 20241 -
Agreed. New one on me too.malcolmg said:
@IshmaelZIshmaelZ said:
Pinhead. This country is not and never has been a direct democracy, and either you have never noticed or you don't mind (because I don't hear you complain on a weekly basis that the government has decided something for itself *again* instead of putting it to a plebiscite). And for good reason; the average voter is as well equipped to decide on complex matters of state as my horse is.coach said:
Yes yes yes I've heard it a million times.OldKingCole said:
That's not the case, Mr C. We suspect that we are living through, if not the end of 'democracy', a time when the process has become corrupted. It's easy, and understandable, to say the public was 'informed' before they voted, but with majority of the popular media being against the EU, and in many cases quite prepared to publish blatant untruths...... straight bananas anyone ....... many of us are concerned that, as the saying goes, the country is going to hell in a handcart.coach said:I'm sorry but this is ridiculous, the referendum said Leave and Boris was elected with a clear mandate to get us out after May prevaricated and paid the price.
Any talk that Brexit may not happen is utter bollox.
But I'm beginning to realise that some on here aren't too fussed about democracy.
And we're worried. In my case, I don't suppose it'll make an enormous difference but I have grandchildren who are young people in this country, and what does it hold for them?
I grew up in the 50's, in the shadow of WWII and in the greyness of those times. I saw, and still see, the European project as providing the opportunities for development and creativity. I don't see Brexit Britain as a land of opportunity, but one hedged about with restrictions. Opportunities for the wealthy perhaps, but not for ordinary people.
And what you have to do now is have another vote and campaign to rejoin and we'll all decide again.
See what I mean about democracy, you're not too keen on it are you?
Yebbut dimmocracee innit, you reply. No, it's ochlocracy.
Ishmael, excellent new word of the day there, first time I have ever seen it.0 -
I think, to be fair, the scientists on SAGE do bear a large chunk of the blame.IanB2 said:
When the crisis began it seemed encouraging that the government was letting us hear from the leading scientists directly. But now things are going pear-shaped it is shabby the way our political leaders are trying to offload the blame.
There is clearly a shit-storm of blame coming, and both the scientists and the politicians are positioning themselves.
Or rather re-positioning themselves.
It is an interesting question as to how accountable a scientist is if the advice proferred leads to poor decisions.
However, I think it is usually accepted that scientists do have a duty to retract mistakes. That is part of the code of science.
1 -
The deal is that we will package up our current relationship with the EU, change the name, and call it victory. We cannot implement any kind of physical border by the end of the year. We cannot do so by mid summer 2021 which is their new deadline. It's impossible. So frictionless borders with buffered to the EU but uncoupled is the way.
Amazing that the bunch of sacked liars we call the government couldn't figure out that blah blah blah we hold all the cards let's force them was bollocks.0 -
There is also a very good series on Radio 4 by Neil Wallis the journalist who covered the story, available on BBC iPlayer.IanB2 said:Meanwhile, under the radar but well worth a watch if you missed it, this week’s Panorama with the scandal of how a government owned organisation covered up its failings, leading to the suicide, bankruptcy and false imprisonment of entirely innocent people:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000gpbv/panorama-scandal-at-the-post-office
The government is currently under pressure from all sides to concede a judicial inquiry.
The story - and there is much more to come out, I expect - is an absolute scandal.2 -
I am not a scientist and you are better placed to judge but my strong impression is that epidemiology has been something of a backwater for some time not attracting either the brightest or the best.YBarddCwsc said:
I think, to be fair, the scientists on SAGE do bear a large chunk of the blame.IanB2 said:
When the crisis began it seemed encouraging that the government was letting us hear from the leading scientists directly. But now things are going pear-shaped it is shabby the way our political leaders are trying to offload the blame.
There is clearly a shit-storm of blame coming, and both the scientists and the politicians are positioning themselves.
Or rather re-positioning themselves.
It is an interesting question as to how accountable a scientist is if the advice proferred leads to poor decisions.
However, I think it is usually accepted that scientists do have a duty to retract mistakes. That is part of the code of science.
There has been clear signs that models were amateurish and simplistic not taking advantage of modern statistical methods, there was the fact that the WHO (who seem to be in the chocolate teapot category) seemed to be using modelling based on work done in the 1930s post Spanish flu. There seems to have been little appreciation of the absolutely massive increase in the movement of people since that time and the implications for transmission. There seemed to be very little thought put into how a trace and search system was ever going to work, a problem we are yet to solve.
Some countries, who have had more recent experience such as SARS, do seem to have addressed these issues and therefore had a much better idea about where to start. SK had a tracing system on a public website based on phone data in February, for example. Despite the exercise undertaken under Hunt we seem to have given this little thought.
I wonder was this just money or resources or lack of real world examples making it boring?1 -
A good post.HYUFD said:
We voted for Brexit, Brexit has been delivered by Boris.alednam said:'Worth it?'. Well I imagine 48% of 2016 voters would say No. And it seems likely that a good few % more would also say No -- at least if aware of the probable consequences. I doubt it can be said that this is what "we" voted for.
If people want to rejoin the single market they can vote for Starmer or the LDs in 2024
Yes we have left. Some on here of the Brexit persuasion still seem to think we haven't.
For someone unashamedly partisan you can still see the wood from the trees. A post stating the obvious, but of a view some others obviously can't see.1 -
Agreed; Private Eye has featured the developing story several times.Cyclefree said:
There is also a very good series on Radio 4 by Neil Wallis the journalist who covered the story, available on BBC iPlayer.IanB2 said:Meanwhile, under the radar but well worth a watch if you missed it, this week’s Panorama with the scandal of how a government owned organisation covered up its failings, leading to the suicide, bankruptcy and false imprisonment of entirely innocent people:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000gpbv/panorama-scandal-at-the-post-office
The government is currently under pressure from all sides to concede a judicial inquiry.
The story - and there is much more to come out, I expect - is an absolute scandal.1 -
But it is the wrong word. We do not have mob rule in that sense. What we need is a Greek-sounding word for government by social media algorithms. Or is it Latin? Boris would know.DavidL said:
Agreed. New one on me too.malcolmg said:
@IshmaelZIshmaelZ said:
Pinhead. This country is not and never has been a direct democracy, and either you have never noticed or you don't mind (because I don't hear you complain on a weekly basis that the government has decided something for itself *again* instead of putting it to a plebiscite). And for good reason; the average voter is as well equipped to decide on complex matters of state as my horse is.coach said:
Yes yes yes I've heard it a million times.OldKingCole said:
That's not the case, Mr C. We suspect that we are living through, if not the end of 'democracy', a time when the process has become corrupted. It's easy, and understandable, to say the public was 'informed' before they voted, but with majority of the popular media being against the EU, and in many cases quite prepared to publish blatant untruths...... straight bananas anyone ....... many of us are concerned that, as the saying goes, the country is going to hell in a handcart.coach said:I'm sorry but this is ridiculous, the referendum said Leave and Boris was elected with a clear mandate to get us out after May prevaricated and paid the price.
Any talk that Brexit may not happen is utter bollox.
But I'm beginning to realise that some on here aren't too fussed about democracy.
And we're worried. In my case, I don't suppose it'll make an enormous difference but I have grandchildren who are young people in this country, and what does it hold for them?
I grew up in the 50's, in the shadow of WWII and in the greyness of those times. I saw, and still see, the European project as providing the opportunities for development and creativity. I don't see Brexit Britain as a land of opportunity, but one hedged about with restrictions. Opportunities for the wealthy perhaps, but not for ordinary people.
And what you have to do now is have another vote and campaign to rejoin and we'll all decide again.
See what I mean about democracy, you're not too keen on it are you?
Yebbut dimmocracee innit, you reply. No, it's ochlocracy.
Ishmael, excellent new word of the day there, first time I have ever seen it.
Use, or misuse, of social media played a large part in BLM, in the war against statues, and in recent elections and referenda. When the outcome is one we approve of, we downplay its importance. My vote was not changed by Twitter. My shopping is not influenced by advertising. Inconvenient questions about the influence of hostile foreign powers using the same techniques as our main political parties is locked in the Downing Street safe. Are we sure Boaty McBoatface is not ploughing the same seas as 19th Century slavers?0 -
Beijing district in 'wartime emergency mode' after virus spike
https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Coronavirus/Beijing-district-in-wartime-emergency-mode-after-virus-spike
... Chu Junwei, an official of Beijing's southwestern Fengtai district, told a briefing on Saturday that the district was in "wartime emergency mode".
Throat swabs from 45 people, out of 517 tested at the district's Xinfadi wholesale market, had tested positive for the new coronavirus, though none of them showed symptoms of COVID-19, Chu said.
A city spokesman told the briefing that all six COVID-19 patients confirmed in Beijing on Friday had visited the Xinfadi market. The capital will suspend sports events and inter-provincial tourism effective immediately, he said.
One person at an agricultural market in the city's northwestern Haidian district also tested positive for the coronavirus that causes COVID-19 without showing symptoms, Chu said.
As part of measures to curb the spread of the virus, Fengtai district said it had locked down 11 neighbourhoods in the vicinity of the market.
Authorities closed the Xinfadi market at 3 a.m. on Saturday (1900 GMT on Friday), after two men working at a meat research centre who had recently visited the market were reported on Friday to have been infected. It was not immediately clear how the men had been infected...0 -
It's a fundamental observation to note we've left. That should switch the neccessary focus of any relationship to the economy rather than any notion of democracy.Mexicanpete said:
A good post.HYUFD said:
We voted for Brexit, Brexit has been delivered by Boris.alednam said:'Worth it?'. Well I imagine 48% of 2016 voters would say No. And it seems likely that a good few % more would also say No -- at least if aware of the probable consequences. I doubt it can be said that this is what "we" voted for.
If people want to rejoin the single market they can vote for Starmer or the LDs in 2024
Yes we have left. Some on here of the Brexit persuasion still seem to think we haven't.
For someone unashamedly partisan you can still see the wood from the trees. A post stating the obvious, but of a view some others obviously can't see.1 -
Some would say your first paragraph contains enough reasons for the renaming...YBarddCwsc said:
Karl Pearson was a socialist. He declined an OBE. He was a prominent free-thinker. He supported the suffragettes. He admired Karl Marx.
He was a famous applied statistician at University College, London.
He was a eugenicist (as were many early twentieth century socialists).
So, he is joining statisticians Galton and Fisher on the naughty step.
The Pearson Building at UCL is being renamed.
But you are right: eugenics was an idea of its time and retrospectively condemning people for not anticipating how far a bunch of nutters in Germany would take the idea is as sensible as condemning him for not anticipating what others would do in the name of Marxism.0 -
See a conclusion and you jump, don't you! The vast majority here are anonymous, posting under pseudonyms. How do you know, why do you assume that I'm not campaigning for another vote?coach said:
Yes yes yes I've heard it a million times.OldKingCole said:
That's not the case, Mr C. We suspect that we are living through, if not the end of 'democracy', a time when the process has become corrupted. It's easy, and understandable, to say the public was 'informed' before they voted, but with majority of the popular media being against the EU, and in many cases quite prepared to publish blatant untruths...... straight bananas anyone ....... many of us are concerned that, as the saying goes, the country is going to hell in a handcart.coach said:I'm sorry but this is ridiculous, the referendum said Leave and Boris was elected with a clear mandate to get us out after May prevaricated and paid the price.
Any talk that Brexit may not happen is utter bollox.
But I'm beginning to realise that some on here aren't too fussed about democracy.
And we're worried. In my case, I don't suppose it'll make an enormous difference but I have grandchildren who are young people in this country, and what does it hold for them?
I grew up in the 50's, in the shadow of WWII and in the greyness of those times. I saw, and still see, the European project as providing the opportunities for development and creativity. I don't see Brexit Britain as a land of opportunity, but one hedged about with restrictions. Opportunities for the wealthy perhaps, but not for ordinary people.
And what you have to do now is have another vote and campaign to rejoin and we'll all decide again.
See what I mean about democracy, you're not too keen on it are you?0
