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Like all economic projections, these are guesses and likely to be completely wrong. We are only going to know the true situation in hindsight.Philip_Thompson said:Sky leading on the OECD saying there will be an over 11% decline in GDP this year, speaking as if that's worse than expected . . .
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Bank of England predict around the start of lockdown that it would be a 15% decline followed by a 14% rise next year, or something like that?
If so, an 11% decline this year surely seems to be lower than the BoE was projecting, not higher than it?0 -
I agree with that.Philip_Thompson said:
I take the opposite view. I think if we go for a short extension that's the worst possible scenario since it achieves nothing in itself and simply will send the signal that during the short extension we'll request another short extension, rinse and repeat. It will be Theresa May redux.rcs1000 said:
Well, it depends what you want.Luckyguy1983 said:
Quite. Putting it off and off makes the less stable amongst us on the topic get ever more agitated and fearful of the outcome. It really is best just to do it, emerge blinking into the sun, check all our appendages are still present, and get on with it.contrarian said:
The only reason for the extension is to play for time to keep Britain in the EU.Philip_Thompson said:
That cuts both ways. If the EU want to take us into an extension, they need to give us very favourable terms to do so. Otherwise why should we go along with what they want?IanB2 said:
If we want to take, we have to give. Something the Tories seem unable to appreciate.eadric said:
The only way we could accept an extension is if they say we will not be on the hook for any of the next EU budget (beyond regular contribs), or any eurozone bailouts, coronafunds, etc. And we won't accept any new EU laws in that time (like a sudden FTT).MaxPB said:
It really depends, if the EU ask, could the UK not stipulate the circumstances under which an extension will be granted?Richard_Nabavi said:
I think it's not a shift as such, but a rather stronger statement than previously.Richard_Tyndall said:
Is that a shift in the EU position? I thought they had been pretty clear that one was needed all along? It is certainly the sensible position.Scott_xP said:
It's academic anyway, Boris has stupidly locked himself into a straitjacket on this and thrown away the key. Presumably the EU are just positioning themselves to be able to say it wasn't their fault when the chaos starts.
Not sure if that is even legally feasible. Would it not require Treaty change?
Before we get an extension, the question must be asked and answered: Why? What is the extension for?
Is it because we're making good progress on negotiating a long term solution but need more time to iron out the kinks?
Or is it because we're no closer than when we started on even agreeing together where we even want to end up, so the extension is to avoid making tough decisions yet and just kicking the can down the road?
An extension for the former can be argued for, an extension for the latter is absurd. That seems to be what many want though.
If you want a negotiated settlement with the EU, them a short extension makes sense. Why? Because we will hopefully be further along with other negotiations. And the further on we are with other negotiations, the more leverage we have with the EU. Simply, in any negotiation, the better the alternatives look, the more power you have.
By contrast, no extension - and few alternative trading agreements - means that EU negotiators will probably think "Hmmm... they haven't even ratified a deal with Australia yet, they're going to fold on everything at the last minute."
Now, as it happens, I don't think we'll blink in the second scenario, and I think we'll leave the Single Market (we've left the EU already of course) without a deal. The question then becomes whether doing this reduces (or increases) our negotiating position with the EU, the US and other trading partners.
The EU needs to look at us and think "these bastards are crazy enough they're going to walk away" and take the negotiations seriously.
I just think that we've been shit at replacing existing arrangements, and have - as under Dr Fox - concentrated all our energies on a trade deal with the US that I think is simply unachievable in the time frame required.
We still have not signed new arrangements with the majority of countries the EU has deals with. We have still not even managed it with Switzerland (where we signed an agreement to have an agreement in Feb '19), and I'm increasingly concerned that we're not going to have stuff in place by the end of the year.
The fewer arrangements we replace, the harder the drop out will be.0 -
These projections are likely to be considerably less reliable than usual owing to the unprecedented nature of the challenge. Nor should we be particularly critical of economists if they are inaccurate on this one - they only start half a step ahead of the rest of us.Black_Rook said:
Like all economic projections, these are guesses and likely to be completely wrong. We are only going to know the true situation in hindsight.Philip_Thompson said:Sky leading on the OECD saying there will be an over 11% decline in GDP this year, speaking as if that's worse than expected . . .
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Bank of England predict around the start of lockdown that it would be a 15% decline followed by a 14% rise next year, or something like that?
If so, an 11% decline this year surely seems to be lower than the BoE was projecting, not higher than it?
All we really need to know just now is that the end result is most unlikely to look pretty.0 -
Indeed, and with rather too many ladies - he loved them and left them. It's one thing that makes me uneasy about some of his life - for much the same reasons as say Rabelais. One thinks: what about the women the authors and/or characters left up the duff or with a dose? And I was thinking that back in 1975-6 when reading Gargantua and Panagruel. I was not particularly progressive (or admittedly reactionary) by the student standards of the time.Sean_F said:
He practised houghmagandie.AlastairMeeks said:
"O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie usRichard_Nabavi said:
He accepted the job, but in the end didn't actually go because the publication of his poems was instantly and unexpectedly successful. Phew, that's alright then.Carnyx said:
What's wrong with Burns? He never actually became a slave plantation overseer.Richard_Nabavi said:
To see oursels as ithers see us!
It wad frae mony a blunder free us,
An' foolish notion"0 -
Isn't every treaty designed to bind the hands of future governments? That is literally their purpose.Wulfrun_Phil said:
It is though in character for the way that Brussells operates. Every single EU treaty that the UK signed up to was designed to bind the hands of all future governments and future electorates. And for the few countries which allow their people a say on treaties, the EU only accepts the results of referenda to endorse treaties when they produce the right result, otherwise it does everything in its power to get nations to run them again or put aside the results. In the case of Brexit its been about dragging out the process in the hope that at some point a government will give up the will to press ahead.anotherex_tory said:
When you say "change opinion" do you mean "elect a new government which has a policy of raprochment with its largest single trading partner"?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Play it long and change opinion to agree a deal that effectively leaves us in the EU with no say in the organisation and still paying in (BINO)OnlyLivingBoy said:
How can we remain when we have left?Big_G_NorthWales said:
You do know that many are trying to delay the actual day in a vain attempt that the longer the delay the more they hope we will end up remainingOnlyLivingBoy said:
You do know that we have left, right?contrarian said:
The only reason for the extension is to play for time to keep Britain in the EU.Philip_Thompson said:
That cuts both ways. If the EU want to take us into an extension, they need to give us very favourable terms to do so. Otherwise why should we go along with what they want?IanB2 said:
If we want to take, we have to give. Something the Tories seem unable to appreciate.eadric said:
The only way we could accept an extension is if they say we will not be on the hook for any of the next EU budget (beyond regular contribs), or any eurozone bailouts, coronafunds, etc. And we won't accept any new EU laws in that time (like a sudden FTT).MaxPB said:
It really depends, if the EU ask, could the UK not stipulate the circumstances under which an extension will be granted?Richard_Nabavi said:
I think it's not a shift as such, but a rather stronger statement than previously.Richard_Tyndall said:
Is that a shift in the EU position? I thought they had been pretty clear that one was needed all along? It is certainly the sensible position.Scott_xP said:
It's academic anyway, Boris has stupidly locked himself into a straitjacket on this and thrown away the key. Presumably the EU are just positioning themselves to be able to say it wasn't their fault when the chaos starts.
Not sure if that is even legally feasible. Would it not require Treaty change?
Before we get an extension, the question must be asked and answered: Why? What is the extension for?
Is it because we're making good progress on negotiating a long term solution but need more time to iron out the kinks?
Or is it because we're no closer than when we started on even agreeing together where we even want to end up, so the extension is to avoid making tough decisions yet and just kicking the can down the road?
An extension for the former can be argued for, an extension for the latter is absurd. That seems to be what many want though.
Because I wasn't aware that the Brexit referendum was designed to bind the hands of all future governments or indeed electorates. That would be very much out of character for the UK constitution.0 -
https://twitter.com/matt_dathan/status/1270750727749742592
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1270750720447393793
So Ferguson could shag his mistress now without resigning...0 -
Boris announces (in England)
All shops to open from monday
Single adult living alone can form a support bubble spending time in each other homes from this weekend
Shielding not allowed to form a support bubble yet
Outdoor attractions to open including Safari Parks, Zoos and outdoor cinemas
Places of worship to open this weekend
0 -
Ferguson is, in effect, admitting that he was wrong at the time.Scott_xP said:
Why should that in of itself be 'incendiary' ?
Embarrassing; unfortunate that it cost thousands of lives; lacking in clear expression of regret... sure.
That he made a mistake has been pretty obvious for quite some time.0 -
The government has noticed that people are still having sex.Scott_xP said:https://twitter.com/matt_dathan/status/1270750727749742592
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1270750720447393793
So Ferguson could shag his mistress now without resigning...0 -
Indeed - and that, of course, the extent and rapidity of the recovery remain critically dependent on the behaviour of the epidemic, about which the scientists and in serious disagreement. Your guess is as good as mine on that front.AlastairMeeks said:
These projections are likely to be considerably less reliable than usual owing to the unprecedented nature of the challenge. Nor should we be particularly critical of economists if they are inaccurate on this one - they only start half a step ahead of the rest of us.Black_Rook said:
Like all economic projections, these are guesses and likely to be completely wrong. We are only going to know the true situation in hindsight.Philip_Thompson said:Sky leading on the OECD saying there will be an over 11% decline in GDP this year, speaking as if that's worse than expected . . .
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Bank of England predict around the start of lockdown that it would be a 15% decline followed by a 14% rise next year, or something like that?
If so, an 11% decline this year surely seems to be lower than the BoE was projecting, not higher than it?
All we really need to know just now is that the end result is most unlikely to look pretty.0 -
It's very hard to do a deal with anyone until it is clear what the relationship with the EU is going to be.rcs1000 said:
I agree with that.
I just think that we've been shit at replacing existing arrangements, and have - as under Dr Fox - concentrated all our energies on a trade deal with the US that I think is simply unachievable in the time frame required.
We still have not signed new arrangements with the majority of countries the EU has deals with. We have still not even managed it with Switzerland (where we signed an agreement to have an agreement in Feb '19), and I'm increasingly concerned that we're not going to have stuff in place by the end of the year.
The fewer arrangements we replace, the harder the drop out will be.
As for the US, there is no chance of a substantive deal in the foreseeable future. I'm not even sure why we're even trying to start talks whilst there is a madman in the White House.0 -
I like his remark about how people will inevitably find anomalies in what is being announced . . .Big_G_NorthWales said:Boris announces (in England)
All shops to open from monday
Single adult living alone can form a support bubble spending time in each other homes from this weekend
Shielding not allowed to form a support bubble yet
Outdoor attractions to open including Safari Parks, Zoos and outdoor cinemas
Places of worship to open this weekend2 -
That comment says more about you than FergusonScott_xP said:https://twitter.com/matt_dathan/status/1270750727749742592
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1270750720447393793
So Ferguson could shag his mistress now without resigning...
Sadly0 -
There are plenty of countries that have done perfectly well without any free trade agreements, such as Taiwan (for a long time).Luckyguy1983 said:
We disagree fundamentally on the need for special trade deals beyond those which allow us to export and import goods and services as a third country. I find the differences they make marginal, and I think they are a distraction. Had I been in Theresa May's shoes, I'd have proposed a five year moratorium on entering any new trade deals, as a cooling off period. It would have killed the issue and focused minds on the more important task of doing business successfully as a independent trading nation.rcs1000 said:
Well, it depends what you want.Luckyguy1983 said:
Quite. Putting it off and off makes the less stable amongst us on the topic get ever more agitated and fearful of the outcome. It really is best just to do it, emerge blinking into the sun, check all our appendages are still present, and get on with it.contrarian said:
The only reason for the extension is to play for time to keep Britain in the EU.Philip_Thompson said:
That cuts both ways. If the EU want to take us into an extension, they need to give us very favourable terms to do so. Otherwise why should we go along with what they want?IanB2 said:
If we want to take, we have to give. Something the Tories seem unable to appreciate.eadric said:
The only way we could accept an extension is if they say we will not be on the hook for any of the next EU budget (beyond regular contribs), or any eurozone bailouts, coronafunds, etc. And we won't accept any new EU laws in that time (like a sudden FTT).MaxPB said:
It really depends, if the EU ask, could the UK not stipulate the circumstances under which an extension will be granted?Richard_Nabavi said:
I think it's not a shift as such, but a rather stronger statement than previously.Richard_Tyndall said:
Is that a shift in the EU position? I thought they had been pretty clear that one was needed all along? It is certainly the sensible position.Scott_xP said:
It's academic anyway, Boris has stupidly locked himself into a straitjacket on this and thrown away the key. Presumably the EU are just positioning themselves to be able to say it wasn't their fault when the chaos starts.
Not sure if that is even legally feasible. Would it not require Treaty change?
Before we get an extension, the question must be asked and answered: Why? What is the extension for?
Is it because we're making good progress on negotiating a long term solution but need more time to iron out the kinks?
Or is it because we're no closer than when we started on even agreeing together where we even want to end up, so the extension is to avoid making tough decisions yet and just kicking the can down the road?
An extension for the former can be argued for, an extension for the latter is absurd. That seems to be what many want though.
If you want a negotiated settlement with the EU, them a short extension makes sense. Why? Because we will hopefully be further along with other negotiations. And the further on we are with other negotiations, the more leverage we have with the EU. Simply, in any negotiation, the better the alternatives look, the more power you have.
By contrast, no extension - and few alternative trading agreements - means that EU negotiators will probably think "Hmmm... they haven't even ratified a deal with Australia yet, they're going to fold on everything at the last minute."
Now, as it happens, I don't think we'll blink in the second scenario, and I think we'll leave the Single Market (we've left the EU already of course) without a deal. The question then becomes whether doing this reduces (or increases) our negotiating position with the EU, the US and other trading partners.
However, there are also industries (like the whole automotive supply chain) that would be absolutely hammered. It's fine to make the decision that we don't need FTAs, but we should be honest about the short term effects of doing so.0 -
I wonder what that means to Boris?AlastairMeeks said:
The government has noticed that people are still having sex.Scott_xP said:https://twitter.com/matt_dathan/status/1270750727749742592
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1270750720447393793
So Ferguson could shag his mistress now without resigning...0 -
Barnard Castle has come up as a joke in a setting which I can asure everyone didn't contain any left wingers at all.1
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Things I've discovered this week. In the US there's a class of ultralights, called 103 ultralights, that neither need to be registered, nor do you need a license.
If you want to amuse yourself, go to Youtube and search for "ultralight no training".0 -
0
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It is but even then I still think we should be able to see it so we can understand how some people used to be, why and how far we've come.Sean_F said:
I think that's fair enough.Philip_Thompson said:
Its also not happened. Gone with the Wind has not been banned.Mexicanpete said:
Nicely contextualised. Thanks.ydoethur said:
Although it is worth remembering the hotel had to change its rules in order for her to attend the ceremony, and she and the other non-white cast members had to sit on a segregated table as well as being excluded from post-ceremony festivities.MattW said:I see that HBO removing Gone with the Wind has censored from the screen the first Oscar winning performance by a black woman.
If only life was as simplistic as they want it to be.
Banning Gone with the Wind is step too far though.
Forces TV still showing the Dukes of Hazzard, the star of which was an orange '69 Dodge Charger with a Confederate battle flag painted on the roof.
Its a shame people are reacting with horror to a temporary measure when the company has already that they will be bringing it back to the platform with a proper measure to accompany it - as other platforms have already done with eg classic Tom & Jerry or Dumbo.
The film that is truly jaw-dropping is Birth of a Nation.
It's the same reason you should still be able to read Mein Kampf.
What's being proposed at the moment is student-level no-platforming.0 -
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We're doing it because Brexit, to a lot of people, is about reorienting the UK from pointing towards the EU to pointing towards the US. It's the Westland Helicopters affair again. Who do we want to be our Hegemon - are you an Atlantacist or a European?Richard_Nabavi said:
It's very hard to do a deal with anyone until it is clear what the relationship with the EU is going to be.rcs1000 said:
I agree with that.
I just think that we've been shit at replacing existing arrangements, and have - as under Dr Fox - concentrated all our energies on a trade deal with the US that I think is simply unachievable in the time frame required.
We still have not signed new arrangements with the majority of countries the EU has deals with. We have still not even managed it with Switzerland (where we signed an agreement to have an agreement in Feb '19), and I'm increasingly concerned that we're not going to have stuff in place by the end of the year.
The fewer arrangements we replace, the harder the drop out will be.
As for the US, there is no chance of a substantive deal in the foreseeable future. I'm not even sure why we're even trying to start talks whilst there is a madman in the White House.
Now, there are people who cheerfuly are neither (like @Luckyguy1983), but most people on the Brexit debate are one or the other.1 -
This is a good thing, surely. It indicates they are reacting to what is actually going on.Scott_xP said:https://twitter.com/Smyth_Chris/status/1270752185266188296
Once again, BoZo underdelivers3 -
No its not. What's being proposed is to have a one or two line disclaimer before you start the film which would be shown unaltered. As has already been done with Dumbo.Casino_Royale said:
It is but even then I still think we should be able to see it so we can understand how some people used to be, why and how far we've come.Sean_F said:
I think that's fair enough.Philip_Thompson said:
Its also not happened. Gone with the Wind has not been banned.Mexicanpete said:
Nicely contextualised. Thanks.ydoethur said:
Although it is worth remembering the hotel had to change its rules in order for her to attend the ceremony, and she and the other non-white cast members had to sit on a segregated table as well as being excluded from post-ceremony festivities.MattW said:I see that HBO removing Gone with the Wind has censored from the screen the first Oscar winning performance by a black woman.
If only life was as simplistic as they want it to be.
Banning Gone with the Wind is step too far though.
Forces TV still showing the Dukes of Hazzard, the star of which was an orange '69 Dodge Charger with a Confederate battle flag painted on the roof.
Its a shame people are reacting with horror to a temporary measure when the company has already that they will be bringing it back to the platform with a proper measure to accompany it - as other platforms have already done with eg classic Tom & Jerry or Dumbo.
The film that is truly jaw-dropping is Birth of a Nation.
It's the same reason you should still be able to read Mein Kampf.
What's being proposed at the moment is student-level no-platforming.
If you get a copy of Mein Kampf its probably got more than 1 or 2 lines in the front of it.1 -
The reverse ferret from the Nationalists when this cancer finally starts targeting things they care about will be a wonder to behold.Sean_F said:
He practised houghmagandie.AlastairMeeks said:
"O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie usRichard_Nabavi said:
He accepted the job, but in the end didn't actually go because the publication of his poems was instantly and unexpectedly successful. Phew, that's alright then.Carnyx said:
What's wrong with Burns? He never actually became a slave plantation overseer.Richard_Nabavi said:
To see oursels as ithers see us!
It wad frae mony a blunder free us,
An' foolish notion"0 -
Please do not say that to ScottRobD said:
This is a good thing, surely. It indicates they are reacting to what is actually going on.Scott_xP said:https://twitter.com/Smyth_Chris/status/1270752185266188296
Once again, BoZo underdelivers
He is an obsessive hater of Boris and you may upset him2 -
I am not the only person that noticedBig_G_NorthWales said:That comment says more about you than Ferguson
Sadly
https://twitter.com/gabyhinsliff/status/12707533824212008960 -
Once again, progress = disaster on Planet Misery.Scott_xP said:https://twitter.com/Smyth_Chris/status/1270752185266188296
Once again, BoZo underdelivers1 -
If you are a Christian, should you not read Islamic, Buddhist, Taoist literature? Holy books and so on?Casino_Royale said:
It is but even then I still think we should be able to see it so we can understand how some people used to be, why and how far we've come.Sean_F said:
I think that's fair enough.Philip_Thompson said:
Its also not happened. Gone with the Wind has not been banned.Mexicanpete said:
Nicely contextualised. Thanks.ydoethur said:
Although it is worth remembering the hotel had to change its rules in order for her to attend the ceremony, and she and the other non-white cast members had to sit on a segregated table as well as being excluded from post-ceremony festivities.MattW said:I see that HBO removing Gone with the Wind has censored from the screen the first Oscar winning performance by a black woman.
If only life was as simplistic as they want it to be.
Banning Gone with the Wind is step too far though.
Forces TV still showing the Dukes of Hazzard, the star of which was an orange '69 Dodge Charger with a Confederate battle flag painted on the roof.
Its a shame people are reacting with horror to a temporary measure when the company has already that they will be bringing it back to the platform with a proper measure to accompany it - as other platforms have already done with eg classic Tom & Jerry or Dumbo.
The film that is truly jaw-dropping is Birth of a Nation.
It's the same reason you should still be able to read Mein Kampf.
What's being proposed at the moment is student-level no-platforming.0 -
I’m more worried about what Justin’s going to say.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Please do not say that to ScottRobD said:
This is a good thing, surely. It indicates they are reacting to what is actually going on.Scott_xP said:https://twitter.com/Smyth_Chris/status/1270752185266188296
Once again, BoZo underdelivers
He is an obsessive hater of Boris and you may upset him2 -
Mein Kampf is rubbish. It's mostly immature and semi-literate rambling,Casino_Royale said:
It is but even then I still think we should be able to see it so we can understand how some people used to be, why and how far we've come.Sean_F said:
I think that's fair enough.Philip_Thompson said:
Its also not happened. Gone with the Wind has not been banned.Mexicanpete said:
Nicely contextualised. Thanks.ydoethur said:
Although it is worth remembering the hotel had to change its rules in order for her to attend the ceremony, and she and the other non-white cast members had to sit on a segregated table as well as being excluded from post-ceremony festivities.MattW said:I see that HBO removing Gone with the Wind has censored from the screen the first Oscar winning performance by a black woman.
If only life was as simplistic as they want it to be.
Banning Gone with the Wind is step too far though.
Forces TV still showing the Dukes of Hazzard, the star of which was an orange '69 Dodge Charger with a Confederate battle flag painted on the roof.
Its a shame people are reacting with horror to a temporary measure when the company has already that they will be bringing it back to the platform with a proper measure to accompany it - as other platforms have already done with eg classic Tom & Jerry or Dumbo.
The film that is truly jaw-dropping is Birth of a Nation.
It's the same reason you should still be able to read Mein Kampf.
What's being proposed at the moment is student-level no-platforming.0 -
Brexiteers still haven’t realized that we’ve left the EU already.0
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I'm not going to bother. Socially distanced outdoor (and online) socialising is plenty for me. Unless offered sex ;-)RobD said:
This is a good thing, surely. It indicates they are reacting to what is actually going on.Scott_xP said:https://twitter.com/Smyth_Chris/status/1270752185266188296
Once again, BoZo underdelivers0 -
He's not a madman, he's Boris' friend!Richard_Nabavi said:
It's very hard to do a deal with anyone until it is clear what the relationship with the EU is going to be.rcs1000 said:
I agree with that.
I just think that we've been shit at replacing existing arrangements, and have - as under Dr Fox - concentrated all our energies on a trade deal with the US that I think is simply unachievable in the time frame required.
We still have not signed new arrangements with the majority of countries the EU has deals with. We have still not even managed it with Switzerland (where we signed an agreement to have an agreement in Feb '19), and I'm increasingly concerned that we're not going to have stuff in place by the end of the year.
The fewer arrangements we replace, the harder the drop out will be.
As for the US, there is no chance of a substantive deal in the foreseeable future. I'm not even sure why we're even trying to start talks whilst there is a madman in the White House.0 -
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Surewly Ferguson is only saying what 90% of the gteneral publ;ic have more or less thought the last couple of months.1
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You'd ber surprised how few statues there are to Burns in Scotland. Houghmagundy, you see.Casino_Royale said:
The reverse ferret from the Nationalists when this cancer finally starts targeting things they care about will be a wonder to behold.Sean_F said:
He practised houghmagandie.AlastairMeeks said:
"O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie usRichard_Nabavi said:
He accepted the job, but in the end didn't actually go because the publication of his poems was instantly and unexpectedly successful. Phew, that's alright then.Carnyx said:
What's wrong with Burns? He never actually became a slave plantation overseer.Richard_Nabavi said:
To see oursels as ithers see us!
It wad frae mony a blunder free us,
An' foolish notion"0 -
The complexity of support bubbles is just going to be ignored. People are going to do what suits them best. The government urgently needs to start working from real life and telling the scientists their parameters rather than vice versa.
It would be better to be simpler and more stringent than introduce complex rules that cut across real lives.
To give a simple example - imagine mum and dad in their early 50s with two grown-up children both of whom have moved out and live alone. Are you really expecting the parents to choose a favoured child?0 -
Not Scott, but it's part of the pattern with Boris. Make a lot of heroic noise and then do something more pragmatic. We saw it with school re-opening, we saw it with the Withdrawal Agreement.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Please do not say that to ScottRobD said:
This is a good thing, surely. It indicates they are reacting to what is actually going on.Scott_xP said:https://twitter.com/Smyth_Chris/status/1270752185266188296
Once again, BoZo underdelivers
He is an obsessive hater of Boris and you may upset him
I'd rather have that than someone cheerfully driving us over a cliff, but it's still a rubbish and quite selfish way of running things, because everyone else has to waste time planning for worst case contingencies.
The application of this principle to the next seven months is left as an exercise for the reader.0 -
If Boris was a Proper Prime Minister he would -RobD said:
1) Instantly rejoin the EU
2) Sign up to every EU scheme, including the Euro.
3) Such obvious brilliance and good behaviour would so impress COVID19, that it would stop infecting people in such settings.5 -
Leaving it a fortnight before visiting another household (Providing no symptons are showing) is probably the sort of measure that would work in practice and theory if people stuck to it yet could never be suggested because people wouldn't
? 0 -
Didn't you got the Better Together memo? Rab was a BIG supporter of the Union. Apparently.Casino_Royale said:
The reverse ferret from the Nationalists when this cancer finally starts targeting things they care about will be a wonder to behold.Sean_F said:
He practised houghmagandie.AlastairMeeks said:
"O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie usRichard_Nabavi said:
He accepted the job, but in the end didn't actually go because the publication of his poems was instantly and unexpectedly successful. Phew, that's alright then.Carnyx said:
What's wrong with Burns? He never actually became a slave plantation overseer.Richard_Nabavi said:
To see oursels as ithers see us!
It wad frae mony a blunder free us,
An' foolish notion"
In any case, we can only hope that we 'Nationalists' will avoid the pant shitting hysteria displayed by the 'Nationalists' on here about the cancer threatening their (sic) culture.1 -
When the public can see what license the statue defilers are allowed, ithis is clearly a pile of utter horsesh8t.
What a joke Johnson and his team are.0 -
The government should give up on detailed guidance. No one is taking the government seriously about this stuff any more anyway.Pulpstar said:Leaving it a fortnight before visiting another household (Providing no symptons are showing) is probably the sort of measure that would work in practice and theory if people stuck to it yet could never be suggested because people wouldn't
?2 -
Given that the UK is part of Europe, you could label the two camps more simply as traitors and patriots.rcs1000 said:
We're doing it because Brexit, to a lot of people, is about reorienting the UK from pointing towards the EU to pointing towards the US. It's the Westland Helicopters affair again. Who do we want to be our Hegemon - are you an Atlantacist or a European?Richard_Nabavi said:
It's very hard to do a deal with anyone until it is clear what the relationship with the EU is going to be.rcs1000 said:
I agree with that.
I just think that we've been shit at replacing existing arrangements, and have - as under Dr Fox - concentrated all our energies on a trade deal with the US that I think is simply unachievable in the time frame required.
We still have not signed new arrangements with the majority of countries the EU has deals with. We have still not even managed it with Switzerland (where we signed an agreement to have an agreement in Feb '19), and I'm increasingly concerned that we're not going to have stuff in place by the end of the year.
The fewer arrangements we replace, the harder the drop out will be.
As for the US, there is no chance of a substantive deal in the foreseeable future. I'm not even sure why we're even trying to start talks whilst there is a madman in the White House.0 -
In a couple of weeks they're likely to relax it further anywayPulpstar said:Leaving it a fortnight before visiting another household (Providing no symptons are showing) is probably the sort of measure that would work in practice and theory if people stuck to it yet could never be suggested because people wouldn't
?0 -
Do you like my 'social distance fortnight' suggestionAlastairMeeks said:The complexity of support bubbles is just going to be ignored. People are going to do what suits them best. The government urgently needs to start working from real life and telling the scientists their parameters rather than vice versa.
It would be better to be simpler and more stringent than introduce complex rules that cut across real lives.
To give a simple example - imagine mum and dad in their early 50s with two grown-up children both of whom have moved out and live alone. Are you really expecting the parents to choose a favoured child?
? 0 -
Do you think the statue defiling and general disorder are worse down south? Remember what the BBC used to call the UK Riots till they had to change it to the 'English Riots' as there was no trouble in Wales, NI or Scotland, and it was affecting the tourist industry? The Nirish were particularly scathing as I recall.Theuniondivvie said:
Didn't you got the Better Together memo? Rab was a BIG supporter of the Union. Apparently.Casino_Royale said:
The reverse ferret from the Nationalists when this cancer finally starts targeting things they care about will be a wonder to behold.Sean_F said:
He practised houghmagandie.AlastairMeeks said:
"O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie usRichard_Nabavi said:
He accepted the job, but in the end didn't actually go because the publication of his poems was instantly and unexpectedly successful. Phew, that's alright then.Carnyx said:
What's wrong with Burns? He never actually became a slave plantation overseer.Richard_Nabavi said:
To see oursels as ithers see us!
It wad frae mony a blunder free us,
An' foolish notion"
In any case , we can only hope that we 'Nationalists' will avoid the pant shitting hysteria displayed by the 'Nationalists' on here about the cancer threatening their (sic) culture.0 -
Don't be silly, they already have a favoured child.AlastairMeeks said:The complexity of support bubbles is just going to be ignored. People are going to do what suits them best. The government urgently needs to start working from real life and telling the scientists their parameters rather than vice versa.
It would be better to be simpler and more stringent than introduce complex rules that cut across real lives.
To give a simple example - imagine mum and dad in their early 50s with two grown-up children both of whom have moved out and live alone. Are you really expecting the parents to choose a favoured child?
Until now, they simply haven't announced it.6 -
Members of the government would be well-advised to socially distance themselves from microphones for a fortnight and actually do some thinking about what the real world looks like, not try to jam it into a box labelled "counter-pandemic measures".Pulpstar said:
Do you like my 'social distance fortnight' suggestionAlastairMeeks said:The complexity of support bubbles is just going to be ignored. People are going to do what suits them best. The government urgently needs to start working from real life and telling the scientists their parameters rather than vice versa.
It would be better to be simpler and more stringent than introduce complex rules that cut across real lives.
To give a simple example - imagine mum and dad in their early 50s with two grown-up children both of whom have moved out and live alone. Are you really expecting the parents to choose a favoured child? ?0 -
The UK is part of Europe in the same was as Canada is part of America.williamglenn said:
Given that the UK is part of Europe, you could label the two camps more simply as traitors and patriots.rcs1000 said:
We're doing it because Brexit, to a lot of people, is about reorienting the UK from pointing towards the EU to pointing towards the US. It's the Westland Helicopters affair again. Who do we want to be our Hegemon - are you an Atlantacist or a European?Richard_Nabavi said:
It's very hard to do a deal with anyone until it is clear what the relationship with the EU is going to be.rcs1000 said:
I agree with that.
I just think that we've been shit at replacing existing arrangements, and have - as under Dr Fox - concentrated all our energies on a trade deal with the US that I think is simply unachievable in the time frame required.
We still have not signed new arrangements with the majority of countries the EU has deals with. We have still not even managed it with Switzerland (where we signed an agreement to have an agreement in Feb '19), and I'm increasingly concerned that we're not going to have stuff in place by the end of the year.
The fewer arrangements we replace, the harder the drop out will be.
As for the US, there is no chance of a substantive deal in the foreseeable future. I'm not even sure why we're even trying to start talks whilst there is a madman in the White House.0 -
Good explanations by Whitty and Vallance over Ferguson
Mature and sensible and really saying it is all due to hindsight
And this is exactly the response Nicola Sturgeon gives to the same accusation0 -
Please don't make us share a phone dialing code...Philip_Thompson said:
The UK is part of Europe in the same was as Canada is part of America.williamglenn said:
Given that the UK is part of Europe, you could label the two camps more simply as traitors and patriots.rcs1000 said:
We're doing it because Brexit, to a lot of people, is about reorienting the UK from pointing towards the EU to pointing towards the US. It's the Westland Helicopters affair again. Who do we want to be our Hegemon - are you an Atlantacist or a European?Richard_Nabavi said:
It's very hard to do a deal with anyone until it is clear what the relationship with the EU is going to be.rcs1000 said:
I agree with that.
I just think that we've been shit at replacing existing arrangements, and have - as under Dr Fox - concentrated all our energies on a trade deal with the US that I think is simply unachievable in the time frame required.
We still have not signed new arrangements with the majority of countries the EU has deals with. We have still not even managed it with Switzerland (where we signed an agreement to have an agreement in Feb '19), and I'm increasingly concerned that we're not going to have stuff in place by the end of the year.
The fewer arrangements we replace, the harder the drop out will be.
As for the US, there is no chance of a substantive deal in the foreseeable future. I'm not even sure why we're even trying to start talks whilst there is a madman in the White House.1 -
Really?Carnyx said:
You'd ber surprised how few statues there are to Burns in Scotland. Houghmagundy, you see.Casino_Royale said:
The reverse ferret from the Nationalists when this cancer finally starts targeting things they care about will be a wonder to behold.Sean_F said:
He practised houghmagandie.AlastairMeeks said:
"O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie usRichard_Nabavi said:
He accepted the job, but in the end didn't actually go because the publication of his poems was instantly and unexpectedly successful. Phew, that's alright then.Carnyx said:
What's wrong with Burns? He never actually became a slave plantation overseer.Richard_Nabavi said:
To see oursels as ithers see us!
It wad frae mony a blunder free us,
An' foolish notion"
This is what Wiki says:
Alloway Scotland monument a short distance from his birthplace Photo
Arbroath Scotland statue in the grounds of Arbroath Library
Ayr Scotland statue in Burns Statue Square G.A. Lawson [1]
Dumfries Scotland statue outside Greyfriar Church in the town centre Amelia Hill
Dumfries Scotland Burns House museum [1]
Dundee Scotland statue in Meadowside
Edinburgh Scotland Burns Monument in Regent Road, south of Calton Hill. The marble statue inside by John Flaxman was moved to the Scottish National Portrait Gallery in Edinburgh. [2]
Edinburgh Scotland inscription in Makars' Court, outside The Writers' Museum in Edinburgh's Old Town
Glasgow Scotland statue in George Square George Edwin Ewing (sculptor), J A Ewing (reliefs), Cox and Son (cast) 1877
Irvine Scotland statue on Irvine Moor James Pittendrigh Macgillivray 1896
Leith Scotland statue on Bernard Street David Watson Stevenson 1898-10-15 (unveiled)
Paisley Scotland statue in the Fountain Gardens F. W. Pomeroy [3]
And I know of at least two more, in Montrose and Aberfeldy. Suggesting this list is far from exhaustive.1 -
Genuine question: are you brain damaged?Philip_Thompson said:
No its not. What's being proposed is to have a one or two line disclaimer before you start the film which would be shown unaltered. As has already been done with Dumbo.Casino_Royale said:
It is but even then I still think we should be able to see it so we can understand how some people used to be, why and how far we've come.Sean_F said:
I think that's fair enough.Philip_Thompson said:
Its also not happened. Gone with the Wind has not been banned.Mexicanpete said:
Nicely contextualised. Thanks.ydoethur said:
Although it is worth remembering the hotel had to change its rules in order for her to attend the ceremony, and she and the other non-white cast members had to sit on a segregated table as well as being excluded from post-ceremony festivities.MattW said:I see that HBO removing Gone with the Wind has censored from the screen the first Oscar winning performance by a black woman.
If only life was as simplistic as they want it to be.
Banning Gone with the Wind is step too far though.
Forces TV still showing the Dukes of Hazzard, the star of which was an orange '69 Dodge Charger with a Confederate battle flag painted on the roof.
Its a shame people are reacting with horror to a temporary measure when the company has already that they will be bringing it back to the platform with a proper measure to accompany it - as other platforms have already done with eg classic Tom & Jerry or Dumbo.
The film that is truly jaw-dropping is Birth of a Nation.
It's the same reason you should still be able to read Mein Kampf.
What's being proposed at the moment is student-level no-platforming.
If you get a copy of Mein Kampf its probably got more than 1 or 2 lines in the front of it.
On my very first post on this in the morning I said it had been pulled but HBO said it'd be temporary (although we don't know when it will come back) and I said it had still pissed my wife off. She loves it and watches it regularly. She'd have preferred a commitment to a date to put the new warning on, and left it up.
I placed it in the context of other shows that *have* been pulled, seemingly permanently, including Little Britain, Bo Selecta' and League of Gentlemen, as part of a trend of voluntary censorship, be it temporary or permanent.
You are becoming obstinate, dogmatic, pedantic, tedious and desperate to score points.
It's fucking annoying. Stop it.0 -
I've finally found someone who's started to put me off Brexit... @Philip_Thompson
I seem to have associated myself with someone so pedantic, dogmatic and ideological it's made me wonder what business I had ever being on the same side as him in the first place.1 -
-
To be fair, the government are not "allowing" the vandals to do their thing.contrarian said:When the public can see what license the statue defilers are allowed, ithis is clearly a pile of utter horsesh8t.
What a joke Johnson and his team are.
I share your disappointment that relaxations are so incremental, but they are clearly frightened that the figures go in the wrong direction again. I think today`s presentation is impressive.
Coming out of lockdown is going to be a prolonged agony. My main concern is that I have a sinking feeling that schools may not go back in September. The government needs to reduce the 2 metre rule to 1 metre - and not expect this to be adhered to by children.0 -
He was a fine example of views moderating and evolving positively with the wisdom of age.Theuniondivvie said:
Didn't you got the Better Together memo? Rab was a BIG supporter of the Union. Apparently.Casino_Royale said:
The reverse ferret from the Nationalists when this cancer finally starts targeting things they care about will be a wonder to behold.Sean_F said:
He practised houghmagandie.AlastairMeeks said:
"O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie usRichard_Nabavi said:
He accepted the job, but in the end didn't actually go because the publication of his poems was instantly and unexpectedly successful. Phew, that's alright then.Carnyx said:
What's wrong with Burns? He never actually became a slave plantation overseer.Richard_Nabavi said:
To see oursels as ithers see us!
It wad frae mony a blunder free us,
An' foolish notion"
In any case, we can only hope that we 'Nationalists' will avoid the pant shitting hysteria displayed by the 'Nationalists' on here about the cancer threatening their (sic) culture.
*and becoming an employee of the British state0 -
Oh I am not miserable and downbeat, quite the reverse, old bean. I have a habit of bouncing back through life for which I am eternally grateful to the Almighty.Philip_Thompson said:
I find it really positive and reassuring that Remainers like yourself are increasingly pessimistic and resigned to it being a diamond hard Brexit. That is brilliant. When May was in negotiations everyone was assuring there was zero chance of that as the UK would never walk away (which was true under May) but now nobody seems to be saying that anymore.Nigel_Foremain said:
Sounds good to me, but sadly, not going to happen. Bozo doesn't have the negotiating ability even if he wanted it. You can be reassured that we are heading for a full fat stupidity index 10, cliff edge crash out. It will possibly be like Black Wednesday on steroids, which when combined with the epidemic aftermath will be enough to put the Conservative Party on a course to being out of office for a generation, or more. Those of us of a centre right persuasion have to hope that the Labour party stays relatively moderate.Big_G_NorthWales said:
BINO is the aim for many and in those circumstances we may as well remainNigel_Foremain said:
Oh do stop being silly. Paranoid nonsense. Like it or not, we have left. Brexit enthusiasts and Johnson apologists will have to own the consequences, just like they should own the consequences of the shambolic response to the epidemic. Johnson is a chaotic rank amateur. His only positive is he isn't s bad as Corbyn, which is a very very low barBig_G_NorthWales said:
Play it long and change opinion to agree a deal that effectively leaves us in the EU with no say in the organisation and still paying in (BINO)OnlyLivingBoy said:
How can we remain when we have left?Big_G_NorthWales said:
You do know that many are trying to delay the actual day in a vain attempt that the longer the delay the more they hope we will end up remainingOnlyLivingBoy said:
You do know that we have left, right?contrarian said:
The only reason for the extension is to play for time to keep Britain in the EU.Philip_Thompson said:
That cuts both ways. If the EU want to take us into an extension, they need to give us very favourable terms to do so. Otherwise why should we go along with what they want?IanB2 said:
If we want to take, we have to give. Something the Tories seem unable to appreciate.eadric said:
The only way we could accept an extension is if they say we will not be on the hook for any of the next EU budget (beyond regular contribs), or any eurozone bailouts, coronafunds, etc. And we won't accept any new EU laws in that time (like a sudden FTT).MaxPB said:
It really depends, if the EU ask, could the UK not stipulate the circumstances under which an extension will be granted?Richard_Nabavi said:
I think it's not a shift as such, but a rather stronger statement than previously.Richard_Tyndall said:
Is that a shift in the EU position? I thought they had been pretty clear that one was needed all along? It is certainly the sensible position.Scott_xP said:
It's academic anyway, Boris has stupidly locked himself into a straitjacket on this and thrown away the key. Presumably the EU are just positioning themselves to be able to say it wasn't their fault when the chaos starts.
Not sure if that is even legally feasible. Would it not require Treaty change?
Before we get an extension, the question must be asked and answered: Why? What is the extension for?
Is it because we're making good progress on negotiating a long term solution but need more time to iron out the kinks?
Or is it because we're no closer than when we started on even agreeing together where we even want to end up, so the extension is to avoid making tough decisions yet and just kicking the can down the road?
An extension for the former can be argued for, an extension for the latter is absurd. That seems to be what many want though.
That's exactly what we need Barnier to understand. The best possible chance of compromise is from people like Nigel here to be as resigned, miserable and downbeat as possible.
Most of all, I "have a life"! On that subject, how are you getting along? Managed to find any other hobbies yet other than giving us all amusement with your very narrow view of the world? I have come on here a few times recently and noticed that on one occassion you are not here! Have you been taking my advice? I do hope so.0 -
I agree, and that's sort of the point isn't it?Peter_the_Punter said:
Mein Kampf is rubbish. It's mostly immature and semi-literate rambling,Casino_Royale said:
It is but even then I still think we should be able to see it so we can understand how some people used to be, why and how far we've come.Sean_F said:
I think that's fair enough.Philip_Thompson said:
Its also not happened. Gone with the Wind has not been banned.Mexicanpete said:
Nicely contextualised. Thanks.ydoethur said:
Although it is worth remembering the hotel had to change its rules in order for her to attend the ceremony, and she and the other non-white cast members had to sit on a segregated table as well as being excluded from post-ceremony festivities.MattW said:I see that HBO removing Gone with the Wind has censored from the screen the first Oscar winning performance by a black woman.
If only life was as simplistic as they want it to be.
Banning Gone with the Wind is step too far though.
Forces TV still showing the Dukes of Hazzard, the star of which was an orange '69 Dodge Charger with a Confederate battle flag painted on the roof.
Its a shame people are reacting with horror to a temporary measure when the company has already that they will be bringing it back to the platform with a proper measure to accompany it - as other platforms have already done with eg classic Tom & Jerry or Dumbo.
The film that is truly jaw-dropping is Birth of a Nation.
It's the same reason you should still be able to read Mein Kampf.
What's being proposed at the moment is student-level no-platforming.
Like getting Nick Griffin on stage at BBC Question Time it exposes the arguments for the ludicrous rubbish they are rather than making martyrs of them.1 -
Which is funny because I was on the opposite side and you won me over. So what does that say?Casino_Royale said:I've finally found someone who's started to put me off Brexit... @Philip_Thompson
I seem to have associated myself with someone so pedantic, dogmatic and ideological it's made me wonder what business I had ever being on the same side as him in the first place.1 -
I think anyone who wants to understand faith should do so, yes.OldKingCole said:
If you are a Christian, should you not read Islamic, Buddhist, Taoist literature? Holy books and so on?Casino_Royale said:
It is but even then I still think we should be able to see it so we can understand how some people used to be, why and how far we've come.Sean_F said:
I think that's fair enough.Philip_Thompson said:
Its also not happened. Gone with the Wind has not been banned.Mexicanpete said:
Nicely contextualised. Thanks.ydoethur said:
Although it is worth remembering the hotel had to change its rules in order for her to attend the ceremony, and she and the other non-white cast members had to sit on a segregated table as well as being excluded from post-ceremony festivities.MattW said:I see that HBO removing Gone with the Wind has censored from the screen the first Oscar winning performance by a black woman.
If only life was as simplistic as they want it to be.
Banning Gone with the Wind is step too far though.
Forces TV still showing the Dukes of Hazzard, the star of which was an orange '69 Dodge Charger with a Confederate battle flag painted on the roof.
Its a shame people are reacting with horror to a temporary measure when the company has already that they will be bringing it back to the platform with a proper measure to accompany it - as other platforms have already done with eg classic Tom & Jerry or Dumbo.
The film that is truly jaw-dropping is Birth of a Nation.
It's the same reason you should still be able to read Mein Kampf.
What's being proposed at the moment is student-level no-platforming.0 -
No chance. Not in zero accountability Britain.anotherex_tory said:
When excrement and fan meet in January and the mood of the passangers changes it will be too late and all the better for it: as a society we may like a good talen show but our appetite for the actual consequences of our actual decisions is low and its time that changed for everyone's education.
Hopefully some of the cold brown matter will make its way back to the people who encouraged its flinging in the first place.
0 -
You weren't being such a twat at the time. You were a good bloke.Philip_Thompson said:
Which is funny because I was on the opposite side and you won me over. So what does that say?Casino_Royale said:I've finally found someone who's started to put me off Brexit... @Philip_Thompson
I seem to have associated myself with someone so pedantic, dogmatic and ideological it's made me wonder what business I had ever being on the same side as him in the first place.
Why have you turned into @HYUFD on acid? Why can't you just engage at the boundaries of the argument, accept (or at least acknowledge) some of my perspective, rather than being so dismissive and pedantic?
It's not a weakness.0 -
Looks that way to me. Sometimes I get annoyed at Scots phlegmatism, other times it seems much preferable.Carnyx said:
Do you think the statue defiling and general disorder are worse down south? Remember what the BBC used to call the UK Riots till they had to change it to the 'English Riots' as there was no trouble in Wales, NI or Scotland, and it was affecting the tourist industry? The Nirish were particularly scathing as I recall.Theuniondivvie said:
Didn't you got the Better Together memo? Rab was a BIG supporter of the Union. Apparently.Casino_Royale said:
The reverse ferret from the Nationalists when this cancer finally starts targeting things they care about will be a wonder to behold.Sean_F said:
He practised houghmagandie.AlastairMeeks said:
"O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie usRichard_Nabavi said:
He accepted the job, but in the end didn't actually go because the publication of his poems was instantly and unexpectedly successful. Phew, that's alright then.Carnyx said:
What's wrong with Burns? He never actually became a slave plantation overseer.Richard_Nabavi said:
To see oursels as ithers see us!
It wad frae mony a blunder free us,
An' foolish notion"
In any case , we can only hope that we 'Nationalists' will avoid the pant shitting hysteria displayed by the 'Nationalists' on here about the cancer threatening their (sic) culture.
Were you around here when the riots kicked off? The outrage when Salmond publicly pointed out that they were in fact English riots was something to behold, no doubt inflamed by the point that it was unarguably true.1 -
Boffing being a synonym for bonking!ydoethur said:
Should that be Bonking Boffin Bounces Back?Anabobazina said:
Boffin' Boffin Bounces Back!isam said:Lockdown breaker Ferguson seems to have escaped reputation unblemished from the kangaroo court
0 -
Vallance and Whitty are coming across very well, honest and really painting the complexity of this crisis and putting the journalists back in their box0
-
I'd been thinking about the public statues, not stuff in museums and galleries (often done on spec by the artist). But that's a better score than I'd realised, yes, faitr comment, and you could add Aberdeen as well. Even so, it still seems a fairly low number - not exactly Queen Victoria level. What I do remember is the frequency of misgivings about Burns' provate life - and about the conflict betweeen his overt Unionism (which pleased his patrons) and his covert Radicalism (which didn't, oh not at all). So it's a good question which Burns is being commemorated.Luckyguy1983 said:
Really?Carnyx said:
You'd ber surprised how few statues there are to Burns in Scotland. Houghmagundy, you see.Casino_Royale said:
The reverse ferret from the Nationalists when this cancer finally starts targeting things they care about will be a wonder to behold.Sean_F said:
He practised houghmagandie.AlastairMeeks said:
"O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie usRichard_Nabavi said:
He accepted the job, but in the end didn't actually go because the publication of his poems was instantly and unexpectedly successful. Phew, that's alright then.Carnyx said:
What's wrong with Burns? He never actually became a slave plantation overseer.Richard_Nabavi said:
To see oursels as ithers see us!
It wad frae mony a blunder free us,
An' foolish notion"
This is what Wiki says:
Alloway Scotland monument a short distance from his birthplace Photo
Arbroath Scotland statue in the grounds of Arbroath Library
Ayr Scotland statue in Burns Statue Square G.A. Lawson [1]
Dumfries Scotland statue outside Greyfriar Church in the town centre Amelia Hill
Dumfries Scotland Burns House museum [1]
Dundee Scotland statue in Meadowside
Edinburgh Scotland Burns Monument in Regent Road, south of Calton Hill. The marble statue inside by John Flaxman was moved to the Scottish National Portrait Gallery in Edinburgh. [2]
Edinburgh Scotland inscription in Makars' Court, outside The Writers' Museum in Edinburgh's Old Town
Glasgow Scotland statue in George Square George Edwin Ewing (sculptor), J A Ewing (reliefs), Cox and Son (cast) 1877
Irvine Scotland statue on Irvine Moor James Pittendrigh Macgillivray 1896
Leith Scotland statue on Bernard Street David Watson Stevenson 1898-10-15 (unveiled)
Paisley Scotland statue in the Fountain Gardens F. W. Pomeroy [3]
And I know of at least two more, in Montrose and Aberfeldy. Suggesting this list is far from exhaustive.0 -
Oh indeed, the arbitrary two metre rule is hugely damaging. And we're reliant on the disease essentially burning itself in the next couple of months for the schools to come back properly. If it doesn't then they'll be part-time (by which I mean, very part-time, 1-2 days a week) in September and it's going to be bye-bye work, hello benefits for an awful lot of Mummies.Stocky said:
To be fair, the government are not "allowing" the vandals to do their thing.contrarian said:When the public can see what license the statue defilers are allowed, ithis is clearly a pile of utter horsesh8t.
What a joke Johnson and his team are.
I share your disappointment that relaxations are so incremental, but they are clearly frightened that the figures go in the wrong direction again. I think today`s presentation is impressive.
Coming out of lockdown is going to be a prolonged agony. My main concern is that I have a sinking feeling that schools may not go back in September. The government needs to reduce the 2 metre rule to 1 metre - and not expect this to be adhered to by children.1 -
-
I think even if the latter sentence is not true, the former is still correct. It's simply the case that there are few areas where such detailed guidance will be suitable.AlastairMeeks said:
The government should give up on detailed guidance. No one is taking the government seriously about this stuff any more anyway.Pulpstar said:Leaving it a fortnight before visiting another household (Providing no symptons are showing) is probably the sort of measure that would work in practice and theory if people stuck to it yet could never be suggested because people wouldn't
?0 -
It is you dipstick, it is part of the Americas, most specifically part of North America. You really do need to take some time off.Philip_Thompson said:
The UK is part of Europe in the same was as Canada is part of America.williamglenn said:
Given that the UK is part of Europe, you could label the two camps more simply as traitors and patriots.rcs1000 said:
We're doing it because Brexit, to a lot of people, is about reorienting the UK from pointing towards the EU to pointing towards the US. It's the Westland Helicopters affair again. Who do we want to be our Hegemon - are you an Atlantacist or a European?Richard_Nabavi said:
It's very hard to do a deal with anyone until it is clear what the relationship with the EU is going to be.rcs1000 said:
I agree with that.
I just think that we've been shit at replacing existing arrangements, and have - as under Dr Fox - concentrated all our energies on a trade deal with the US that I think is simply unachievable in the time frame required.
We still have not signed new arrangements with the majority of countries the EU has deals with. We have still not even managed it with Switzerland (where we signed an agreement to have an agreement in Feb '19), and I'm increasingly concerned that we're not going to have stuff in place by the end of the year.
The fewer arrangements we replace, the harder the drop out will be.
As for the US, there is no chance of a substantive deal in the foreseeable future. I'm not even sure why we're even trying to start talks whilst there is a madman in the White House.0 -
The government's reaction to these protests was too weak and too ambivalent for many tories.Stocky said:
To be fair, the government are not "allowing" the vandals to do their thing.contrarian said:When the public can see what license the statue defilers are allowed, ithis is clearly a pile of utter horsesh8t.
What a joke Johnson and his team are.
I share your disappointment that relaxations are so incremental, but they are clearly frightened that the figures go in the wrong direction again. I think today`s presentation is impressive.
Coming out of lockdown is going to be a prolonged agony. My main concern is that I have a sinking feeling that schools may not go back in September. The government needs to reduce the 2 metre rule to 1 metre - and not expect this to be adhered to by children.
Over on Conhome, the faithful are boiling mad.0 -
I'll stop arguing if you stop being wrong. You said what is being proposed is "No Platforming". That's just categorically not the case. It will be back, that's already confirmed, so the platform is there still it's just not currently available. That's a completely different thing.Casino_Royale said:
Genuine question: are you brain damaged?Philip_Thompson said:
No its not. What's being proposed is to have a one or two line disclaimer before you start the film which would be shown unaltered. As has already been done with Dumbo.Casino_Royale said:
It is but even then I still think we should be able to see it so we can understand how some people used to be, why and how far we've come.Sean_F said:
I think that's fair enough.Philip_Thompson said:
Its also not happened. Gone with the Wind has not been banned.Mexicanpete said:
Nicely contextualised. Thanks.ydoethur said:
Although it is worth remembering the hotel had to change its rules in order for her to attend the ceremony, and she and the other non-white cast members had to sit on a segregated table as well as being excluded from post-ceremony festivities.MattW said:I see that HBO removing Gone with the Wind has censored from the screen the first Oscar winning performance by a black woman.
If only life was as simplistic as they want it to be.
Banning Gone with the Wind is step too far though.
Forces TV still showing the Dukes of Hazzard, the star of which was an orange '69 Dodge Charger with a Confederate battle flag painted on the roof.
Its a shame people are reacting with horror to a temporary measure when the company has already that they will be bringing it back to the platform with a proper measure to accompany it - as other platforms have already done with eg classic Tom & Jerry or Dumbo.
The film that is truly jaw-dropping is Birth of a Nation.
It's the same reason you should still be able to read Mein Kampf.
What's being proposed at the moment is student-level no-platforming.
If you get a copy of Mein Kampf its probably got more than 1 or 2 lines in the front of it.
On my very first post on this in the morning I said it had been pulled but HBO said it'd be temporary (although we don't know when it will come back) and I said it had still pissed my wife off. She loves it and watches it regularly. She'd have preferred a commitment to a date to put the new warning on, and left it up.
I placed it in the context of other shows that *have* been pulled, seemingly permanently, including Little Britain, Bo Selecta' and League of Gentlemen, as part of a trend of voluntary censorship, be it temporary or permanent.
You are becoming obstinate, dogmatic, pedantic, tedious and desperate to score points.
It's fucking annoying. Stop it.
You also said at the time that Disney have said they are reviewing Dumbo. They're not. They've reviewed it and put a one line disclaimer in its description which is basically what HBO have already said they're going to do with Gone With The Wind.
HBO have also confirmed already that Gone With The Wind will be not just coming back but doing so "unaltered".
Gone With The Wind is like Dumbo, as explained, not like Little Britain.
If your issue is that there's a temporary not permanent removal then that's not what I was responding to.0 -
0
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Interesting article in the New Statesman.
"The great university con: how the British degree lost its value
Never before has Britain had so many qualified graduates. And never before have their qualifications amounted to so little."
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/education/2019/08/great-university-con-how-british-degree-lost-its-value0 -
Mein Kampf shows what Hitler was day dreaming about.... Using poison gas on Jews, for example.Casino_Royale said:
I agree, and that's sort of the point isn't it?Peter_the_Punter said:
Mein Kampf is rubbish. It's mostly immature and semi-literate rambling,Casino_Royale said:
It is but even then I still think we should be able to see it so we can understand how some people used to be, why and how far we've come.Sean_F said:
I think that's fair enough.Philip_Thompson said:
Its also not happened. Gone with the Wind has not been banned.Mexicanpete said:
Nicely contextualised. Thanks.ydoethur said:
Although it is worth remembering the hotel had to change its rules in order for her to attend the ceremony, and she and the other non-white cast members had to sit on a segregated table as well as being excluded from post-ceremony festivities.MattW said:I see that HBO removing Gone with the Wind has censored from the screen the first Oscar winning performance by a black woman.
If only life was as simplistic as they want it to be.
Banning Gone with the Wind is step too far though.
Forces TV still showing the Dukes of Hazzard, the star of which was an orange '69 Dodge Charger with a Confederate battle flag painted on the roof.
Its a shame people are reacting with horror to a temporary measure when the company has already that they will be bringing it back to the platform with a proper measure to accompany it - as other platforms have already done with eg classic Tom & Jerry or Dumbo.
The film that is truly jaw-dropping is Birth of a Nation.
It's the same reason you should still be able to read Mein Kampf.
What's being proposed at the moment is student-level no-platforming.
Like getting Nick Griffin on stage at BBC Question Time it exposes the arguments for the ludicrous rubbish they are rather than making martyrs of them.0 -
Quite. People are really against opponents dogmatically sticking to something, until they don't do that, when it shows weakness.RobD said:
This is a good thing, surely. It indicates they are reacting to what is actually going on.Scott_xP said:https://twitter.com/Smyth_Chris/status/1270752185266188296
Once again, BoZo underdelivers0 -
That's patent nonsense from Whitty. Look at the numbers FFS.Scott_xP said:
0 -
Exactly. The more people that see that is incoherent drivel the better.Casino_Royale said:
I agree, and that's sort of the point isn't it?Peter_the_Punter said:
Mein Kampf is rubbish. It's mostly immature and semi-literate rambling,Casino_Royale said:
It is but even then I still think we should be able to see it so we can understand how some people used to be, why and how far we've come.Sean_F said:
I think that's fair enough.Philip_Thompson said:
Its also not happened. Gone with the Wind has not been banned.Mexicanpete said:
Nicely contextualised. Thanks.ydoethur said:
Although it is worth remembering the hotel had to change its rules in order for her to attend the ceremony, and she and the other non-white cast members had to sit on a segregated table as well as being excluded from post-ceremony festivities.MattW said:I see that HBO removing Gone with the Wind has censored from the screen the first Oscar winning performance by a black woman.
If only life was as simplistic as they want it to be.
Banning Gone with the Wind is step too far though.
Forces TV still showing the Dukes of Hazzard, the star of which was an orange '69 Dodge Charger with a Confederate battle flag painted on the roof.
Its a shame people are reacting with horror to a temporary measure when the company has already that they will be bringing it back to the platform with a proper measure to accompany it - as other platforms have already done with eg classic Tom & Jerry or Dumbo.
The film that is truly jaw-dropping is Birth of a Nation.
It's the same reason you should still be able to read Mein Kampf.
What's being proposed at the moment is student-level no-platforming.
Like getting Nick Griffin on stage at BBC Question Time it exposes the arguments for the ludicrous rubbish they are rather than making martyrs of them.0 -
No, Iit was before my time on PB. But I can well believe it. It certainly pointed to a different attitude in the four polities. And that would have been unfotgivable.Theuniondivvie said:
Looks that way to me. Sometimes I get annoyed at Scots phlegmatism, other times it seems much preferable.Carnyx said:
Do you think the statue defiling and general disorder are worse down south? Remember what the BBC used to call the UK Riots till they had to change it to the 'English Riots' as there was no trouble in Wales, NI or Scotland, and it was affecting the tourist industry? The Nirish were particularly scathing as I recall.Theuniondivvie said:
Didn't you got the Better Together memo? Rab was a BIG supporter of the Union. Apparently.Casino_Royale said:
The reverse ferret from the Nationalists when this cancer finally starts targeting things they care about will be a wonder to behold.Sean_F said:
He practised houghmagandie.AlastairMeeks said:
"O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie usRichard_Nabavi said:
He accepted the job, but in the end didn't actually go because the publication of his poems was instantly and unexpectedly successful. Phew, that's alright then.Carnyx said:
What's wrong with Burns? He never actually became a slave plantation overseer.Richard_Nabavi said:
To see oursels as ithers see us!
It wad frae mony a blunder free us,
An' foolish notion"
In any case , we can only hope that we 'Nationalists' will avoid the pant shitting hysteria displayed by the 'Nationalists' on here about the cancer threatening their (sic) culture.
Were you around here when the riots kicked off? The outrage when Salmond publicly pointed out that they were in fact English riots was something to behold, no doubt inflamed by the point that it was unarguably true.
As for BLM, the demos in Edinburgh and Glasgow were AFAIK pretty quiet - and, at least in Holyrood Park, well socially distanced, and no statues did any dives.
As for Dundas H. in St Andrew Square, trying to get at him would be reminiscent of a dachshund yapping at a cat up a tree ...1 -
The public's view of bubbles is going to resemble a bar of Aero.Richard_Nabavi said:Jim Pickard agrees with Alastair:
https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/12707580264300994561 -
Those two statements do not contradict one another, though one is obviously a lot more optimistic. A curbed tide still exists, and sending something packing means its on its way back to where it came from, which would place it now about in the middle.Scott_xP said:
A bit contrived? To be sure, but you need to work harder on getting your critical tweets, some of them aren't even critical and others rely too much on interpretation.1 -
What box exactly do you think journalists should be in?Big_G_NorthWales said:Vallance and Whitty are coming across very well, honest and really painting the complexity of this crisis and putting the journalists back in their box
What's wrong with a free press?0 -
We are all at a loss....but I am sure you are going to tell us. Go on, give us the full breadth of your experience of the world and how it has deepened your understanding. Please, please tell us oh wise one.Philip_Thompson said:
Which is funny because I was on the opposite side and you won me over. So what does that say?Casino_Royale said:I've finally found someone who's started to put me off Brexit... @Philip_Thompson
I seem to have associated myself with someone so pedantic, dogmatic and ideological it's made me wonder what business I had ever being on the same side as him in the first place.0 -
This is one of the best news conferences since the start of covid0
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However I would expect that the scientists modelling this stuff will have taken into account that the rules won't be 100% complied with, so it might not be as futile as it seems.0
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Now, someone's going to say at some point that this is all terribly straightforward, so:
https://twitter.com/jamesrbuk/status/1270758665797144583?s=200 -
Right now I hope they're modelling on the basis of 25% compliance.Richard_Nabavi said:However I would expect that the scientists modelling this stuff will have taken into account that the rules won't be 100% complied with, so it might not be as futile as it seems.
1 -
Big_G_NorthWales said:
This is one of the best news conferences since the start of covid
Idiotic gotcha questioningScott_xP said:
What box exactly do you think journalists should be in?Big_G_NorthWales said:Vallance and Whitty are coming across very well, honest and really painting the complexity of this crisis and putting the journalists back in their box
What's wrong with a free press?0 -
Often your jibes at Boris are understandable.Scott_xP said:https://twitter.com/Smyth_Chris/status/1270752185266188296
Once again, BoZo underdelivers
But on this occasion you are saying he should have done the wrong thing?0 -
I'm sorry I've upset you.Casino_Royale said:
You weren't being such a twat at the time. You were a good bloke.Philip_Thompson said:
Which is funny because I was on the opposite side and you won me over. So what does that say?Casino_Royale said:I've finally found someone who's started to put me off Brexit... @Philip_Thompson
I seem to have associated myself with someone so pedantic, dogmatic and ideological it's made me wonder what business I had ever being on the same side as him in the first place.
Why have you turned into @HYUFD on acid? Why can't you just engage at the boundaries of the argument, accept (or at least acknowledge) some of my perspective, rather than being so dismissive and pedantic?
It's not a weakness.
Though I must say that you've been having digs at me for the last few days too since I supported the idea of Colston being toppled as civil disobedience.
Perhaps I've had my back up, I don't want to upset anyone.1 -
The key for beer gardens is to rebrand as outdoor cinemas, pop an old LCD TV showing Casablanca (great movie!) in the corner, and we can all get on with our lives.1
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It was true, but it also looked like smug gloating. Salmond's face could've featured in the pictorial dictionary under "smug." At least the gloating ended circa September 2014. His replacement by Sturgeon was a vast improvement.Theuniondivvie said:
Looks that way to me. Sometimes I get annoyed at Scots phlegmatism, other times it seems much preferable.Carnyx said:
Do you think the statue defiling and general disorder are worse down south? Remember what the BBC used to call the UK Riots till they had to change it to the 'English Riots' as there was no trouble in Wales, NI or Scotland, and it was affecting the tourist industry? The Nirish were particularly scathing as I recall.Theuniondivvie said:
Didn't you got the Better Together memo? Rab was a BIG supporter of the Union. Apparently.Casino_Royale said:
The reverse ferret from the Nationalists when this cancer finally starts targeting things they care about will be a wonder to behold.Sean_F said:
He practised houghmagandie.AlastairMeeks said:
"O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie usRichard_Nabavi said:
He accepted the job, but in the end didn't actually go because the publication of his poems was instantly and unexpectedly successful. Phew, that's alright then.Carnyx said:
What's wrong with Burns? He never actually became a slave plantation overseer.Richard_Nabavi said:
To see oursels as ithers see us!
It wad frae mony a blunder free us,
An' foolish notion"
In any case , we can only hope that we 'Nationalists' will avoid the pant shitting hysteria displayed by the 'Nationalists' on here about the cancer threatening their (sic) culture.
Were you around here when the riots kicked off? The outrage when Salmond publicly pointed out that they were in fact English riots was something to behold, no doubt inflamed by the point that it was unarguably true.0
