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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/cars/article-8364955/Nissan-close-Barcelona-auto-plant-boost-Sunderland-jobs.html

BluestBlue said:

Scott_xP said:

https://twitter.com/BarristerSecret/status/1265978957788299264

I'm sure the Attorney General cares deeply indeed about what this anonymous random thinks about her.

She probably doesn't. Being held in contempt by the legal profession is a good career move for the AG.

tlg86 said:

TGOHF666 said:

Arf !

https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/1265979947233021954?s=20

As I said when the PCC raised this with his force, this was not likely to work in the favour of the government's opponents.

But what of the government's opponents who want Cummings to stay, and the government supporters who want Cummings out?

bigjohnowls said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Wait did Durham Police say he "did" break the rules on Barnhard Castle or he "might" have but it's minor? Those are two very different things.

Either way he's been cleared of the main accusation.

Telegraph says

BREAKING: A Durham Police investigation has concluded that Dominic Cummings DID breach lockdown rules when he drove to Barnard Castle, the Telegraph has learned

You need to read the full report on the BBC before passing judgment

Philip_Thompson said:

MaxPB said:

Philip_Thompson said:

MaxPB said:

Philip_Thompson said:

MaxPB said:

Philip_Thompson said:

For a minor breach of rules a verbal warning is an appropriate sanction for an employee unless they're already on a verbal/written warning. It isn't Gross Misconduct.

But you've been telling us for days that no rules were broken. Which is it?

I also said there should be an independent investigation too ...

There has been one. I'm happy to accept it's results. According to that I was right about the trip to Durham and wrong about Barnhard Castle. Fair enough.

Given the primary one of concern has been cleared of being a breach and the secondary one is minor then a warning and an apology would be appropriate in my eyes.

He wrote the lockdown rules and then broke them, it's a resigning matter. We're way beyond apologies.

No. Even people who write rules can make errors in interpreting them. Errors of judgement are not a resigning matter.

Yes they are. It's like the head of the highways agency driving at 75mph, he knows what the speed limit is. Dom knew what the guidelines were and broke them many times. He broke quarantine and then made an unnecessary trip to the castle. His actions were calculated and the government response has been very carefully worded because they know how calculated everything is. His excuse for driving to the castle is completely laughable and your defence of him I'd both disappointing and predictable.

The Tory party is handing the 2024 election to Labour in defence of one person. You're losing millions of marginal voters over this and you just don't seem to care.

Only if you're vindictive. If the rule isn't clear and the breach is minor then clear it up for next time.

No, you can't have people who wrote the rules breaking them. It's why the bonking scientist and the idiot woman in Scotland had to go as well.

Philip_Thompson said:

Wait did Durham Police say he "did" break the rules on Barnhard Castle or he "might" have but it's minor? Those are two very different things.

Either way he's been cleared of the main accusation.

Yes, the 'might' clears this up. The police haven't actually said he is guilty of anything at all.

Alanbrooke said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/cars/article-8364955/Nissan-close-Barcelona-auto-plant-boost-Sunderland-jobs.html

If Renault production is shifted to Sunderland Macron will go mental given the size of bribe he slipped them a few days ago to move it to France.

TGOHF666 said:

Daveyboy1961 said:

I don't see how a police force can condone somebody driving 30 miles to see if they can see properly.

They don't - they say they would have wagged their finger at him.

Hardly a resigning issue.

60 miles there and back, breaking the guidelines and possibly the RTA on defective vision and due care and attention, and all because he was too stupid to admit it was a jolly for the wife's birthday.

DecrepiterJohnL said:

tlg86 said:

TGOHF666 said:

Arf !

https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/1265979947233021954?s=20

As I said when the PCC raised this with his force, this was not likely to work in the favour of the government's opponents.

But what of the government's opponents who want Cummings to stay, and the government supporters who want Cummings out?

Obviously it doesn't stop people thinking that what Cummings did was wrong. I still think Johnson have taken a big gamble with this, but I would say the police intervention is beneficial to the government.

LOL Piers Morgan lied! The Police don't say Barnhard Castle did breach the rules just that it "might have" but is so minor they're not investigating further. 😂🙈

So I was right after all! Durham visit wasn't a breach of the rules. Barnhard Castle might have been but is so minor we will never know either way.

Move on already. What a farce!

ydoethur said:

tlg86 said:

TGOHF666 said:

Arf !

https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/1265979947233021954?s=20

As I said when the PCC raised this with his force, this was not likely to work in the favour of the government's opponents.

I would disagree. Imagine if they had found against him on all points and slapped him with a thousand quid fine (well, £960). He’d have had to resign and somebody credible, competent and intelligent might have replaced him.

Whilst Cummings has clearly become a household name because of this, I don't think his competence or otherwise is part of the equation.

bigjohnowls said:

bigjohnowls said:

Ther we go statement in full

https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1265980812815671296/photo/2

No further action because they do not want to act retrospectively

And what would they have done at the time. Why not explain it on here BJO

MaxPB said:

Philip_Thompson said:

MaxPB said:

Philip_Thompson said:

MaxPB said:

Philip_Thompson said:

MaxPB said:

Philip_Thompson said:

For a minor breach of rules a verbal warning is an appropriate sanction for an employee unless they're already on a verbal/written warning. It isn't Gross Misconduct.

But you've been telling us for days that no rules were broken. Which is it?

I also said there should be an independent investigation too ...

There has been one. I'm happy to accept it's results. According to that I was right about the trip to Durham and wrong about Barnhard Castle. Fair enough.

Given the primary one of concern has been cleared of being a breach and the secondary one is minor then a warning and an apology would be appropriate in my eyes.

He wrote the lockdown rules and then broke them, it's a resigning matter. We're way beyond apologies.

No. Even people who write rules can make errors in interpreting them. Errors of judgement are not a resigning matter.

Yes they are. It's like the head of the highways agency driving at 75mph, he knows what the speed limit is. Dom knew what the guidelines were and broke them many times. He broke quarantine and then made an unnecessary trip to the castle. His actions were calculated and the government response has been very carefully worded because they know how calculated everything is. His excuse for driving to the castle is completely laughable and your defence of him I'd both disappointing and predictable.

The Tory party is handing the 2024 election to Labour in defence of one person. You're losing millions of marginal voters over this and you just don't seem to care.

Only if you're vindictive. If the rule isn't clear and the breach is minor then clear it up for next time.

No, you can't have people who wrote the rules breaking them. It's why the bonking scientist and the idiot woman in Scotland had to go as well.

But he didn't. Nothings been broken. Durham trip was legal and Barnhard Castle is so minor we will never know either way.

tlg86 said:

ydoethur said:

tlg86 said:

TGOHF666 said:

Arf !

https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/1265979947233021954?s=20

As I said when the PCC raised this with his force, this was not likely to work in the favour of the government's opponents.

I would disagree. Imagine if they had found against him on all points and slapped him with a thousand quid fine (well, £960). He’d have had to resign and somebody credible, competent and intelligent might have replaced him.

Whilst Cummings has clearly become a household name because of this, I don't think his competence or otherwise is part of the equation.

Isn't becoming a household name incompetent for an éminence grise (or whatever arsey form Cummings like to apply to his very important personage)?

tlg86 said:

ydoethur said:

tlg86 said:

TGOHF666 said:

Arf !

https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/1265979947233021954?s=20

As I said when the PCC raised this with his force, this was not likely to work in the favour of the government's opponents.

I would disagree. Imagine if they had found against him on all points and slapped him with a thousand quid fine (well, £960). He’d have had to resign and somebody credible, competent and intelligent might have replaced him.

Whilst Cummings has clearly become a household name because of this, I don't think his competence or otherwise is part of the equation.

I think it's the conniving scumminess which was the bigger issue and the inability for Boris not to see how to shut down the issue immediately.

As I've continually said the solution was to resign and for the resignation to be refused due to circumstances. that would have been Job done.

Philip_Thompson said:

LOL Piers Morgan lied! The Police don't say Barnhard Castle did breach the rules just that it "might have" but is so minor they're not investigating further. 😂🙈

So I was right after all! Durham visit wasn't a breach of the rules. Barnhard Castle might have been but is so minor we will never know either way.

Move on already. What a farce!

You misunderstand. The language is effectively saying that he did breach the lockdown rules, but the normal penalty is he would have been ordered to return home. Only if people refused to return home have Durham been handing out fines. Which, in fairness, is a very sensible approach.

It is interesting also that while they say they do not feel there is clear cut evidence of a breach of the actual regulations - which after the Attorney General’s exceptionally stupid comments, they could hardly have said otherwise - they do make it clear that in their view he had acted contrary to government advice.

Hope your daughter didn’t take the news about school too badly, btw.

ETA - I wonder if there will be complaints about his actions under s96 now.

tlg86 said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

tlg86 said:

TGOHF666 said:

Arf !

https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/1265979947233021954?s=20

As I said when the PCC raised this with his force, this was not likely to work in the favour of the government's opponents.

But what of the government's opponents who want Cummings to stay, and the government supporters who want Cummings out?

Obviously it doesn't stop people thinking that what Cummings did was wrong. I still think Johnson have taken a big gamble with this, but I would say the police intervention is beneficial to the government.

The question is not whether what Cummings did was wrong, or illegal, or even bloody stupid, but whether voters who have endured many hardships through lockdown and isolation will see it as blatant hypocrisy. That's what did for Major's government, and may have been a factor in "a plague on all your houses" after the expenses scandal.

Philip_Thompson said:

MaxPB said:

Philip_Thompson said:

MaxPB said:

Philip_Thompson said:

MaxPB said:

Philip_Thompson said:

For a minor breach of rules a verbal warning is an appropriate sanction for an employee unless they're already on a verbal/written warning. It isn't Gross Misconduct.

But you've been telling us for days that no rules were broken. Which is it?

I also said there should be an independent investigation too ...

There has been one. I'm happy to accept it's results. According to that I was right about the trip to Durham and wrong about Barnhard Castle. Fair enough.

Given the primary one of concern has been cleared of being a breach and the secondary one is minor then a warning and an apology would be appropriate in my eyes.

He wrote the lockdown rules and then broke them, it's a resigning matter. We're way beyond apologies.

No. Even people who write rules can make errors in interpreting them. Errors of judgement are not a resigning matter.

Yes they are. It's like the head of the highways agency driving at 75mph, he knows what the speed limit is. Dom knew what the guidelines were and broke them many times. He broke quarantine and then made an unnecessary trip to the castle. His actions were calculated and the government response has been very carefully worded because they know how calculated everything is. His excuse for driving to the castle is completely laughable and your defence of him I'd both disappointing and predictable.

The Tory party is handing the 2024 election to Labour in defence of one person. You're losing millions of marginal voters over this and you just don't seem to care.

Only if you're vindictive. If the rule isn't clear and the breach is minor then clear it up for next time.

You and I both know there is a difference between the rules - what copshop can enforce - and the guidance. Indeed you have made some very strong arguments to that effect. It was always the case that being told to go home was the initial sanction available to the police and they have been shown telling people in parks etc to sod off. If you get arsey then here's your FPN, really arsey we'll escort you home, really really arsey yer nicked. Much of the whataboutery has been hurled at Stephen Kinnock, who was spoken to by Welsh copshop.

But the rules backed up by the law has never been the issue. Its been the guidance. Stay Home, Save Lives. If you travel you risk us all. Don't put pressure on the NHS somewhere else by travelling to a second residence. Cummings devised the strategy at least in part to issue what ManCock described as instructions. Which has seen families kept apart, parents dying alone etc etc. That the person who set out the instructions flagrantly ignores it, puts out a fallacy about being in London and continues to lie about it is what has fucked people off, not that Durham plod could have sent him away from BC and didn't.

Basic political problem. You are an intelligent man. Politically astute. Yet continue to hold a line long since lost to ridicule and mass scorn. Even from Tory papers and Tory voters. I know why small of brain contributors say it - they know no better. You however are worth better than even almost a week on continuing to tunnel to Java.

Philip_Thompson said:

LOL Piers Morgan lied! The Police don't say Barnhard Castle did breach the rules just that it "might have" but is so minor they're not investigating further. 😂🙈

So I was right after all! Durham visit wasn't a breach of the rules. Barnhard Castle might have been but is so minor we will never know either way.

Move on already. What a farce!

Yet the way it is being reported on some of the online sites is that this announcement is confirming his guilt.

Philip_Thompson said:

I wonder how many people who spent the last six days pronouncing that the Durham visit was illegal will have the humility and good grace to admit they were wrong?

No chance of that. Though to be fair, they also think that Cummings killed JFK, stole Shergar, and was responsible for the false flag attacks on 9/11.

tlg86 said:

ydoethur said:

tlg86 said:

TGOHF666 said:

Arf !

https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/1265979947233021954?s=20

As I said when the PCC raised this with his force, this was not likely to work in the favour of the government's opponents.

I would disagree. Imagine if they had found against him on all points and slapped him with a thousand quid fine (well, £960). He’d have had to resign and somebody credible, competent and intelligent might have replaced him.

Whilst Cummings has clearly become a household name because of this, I don't think his competence or otherwise is part of the equation.

True. That would imply he had some.

@Philip_Thompson everyone knows why Dom really drove to Barnard Castle. You know. I know. The Police know. Stop pretending otherwise.

bigjohnowls said:

bigjohnowls said:

Ther we go statement in full

https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1265980812815671296/photo/2

No further action because they do not want to act retrospectively

The statement literally says ‘might’ - the journalist is incorrectly summarising, which is hardy surprising

Theuniondivvie said:

tlg86 said:

ydoethur said:

tlg86 said:

TGOHF666 said:

Arf !

https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/1265979947233021954?s=20

As I said when the PCC raised this with his force, this was not likely to work in the favour of the government's opponents.

I would disagree. Imagine if they had found against him on all points and slapped him with a thousand quid fine (well, £960). He’d have had to resign and somebody credible, competent and intelligent might have replaced him.

Whilst Cummings has clearly become a household name because of this, I don't think his competence or otherwise is part of the equation.

Isn't becoming a household name incompetent for an éminence grise (or whatever arsey form Cummings like to apply to his very important personage)?

Maybe one of the miscalculations they're making is that they thought he already was a household name, rather than someone only known to unusually politically-engaged people.

Philip_Thompson said:

I wonder how many people who spent the last six days pronouncing that the Durham visit was illegal will have the humility and good grace to admit they were wrong?

None. Cummings is STILL the architect of Brexit, and that carries a life sentence in their eyes...

MaxPB said:

Philip_Thompson said:

I wonder how many people who spent the last six days pronouncing that the Durham visit was illegal will have the humility and good grace to admit they were wrong?

He broke the guidelines. The same guidelines that locked the rest of us at home. You're not going to escape that with legalism and neither is the Tory party. You're losing the 2024 election and millions of voters now believe the Tory party lives by different rules to the rest of us.

You're part of the problem, unfortunately.

He didn't break the law with the Durham trip, he's been cleared of that. I was laughed at here by many people but I was right, they were wrong, and Ihave been vindicated for my view. Who has the humility to apologise?

Time will roll on and the Tories will be judged at the next election by how good or bad a job they do over the next 4 years. As they should be. If Dom helps them do a good job then keeping him will win more votes in the long run.

Philip_Thompson said:

I wonder how many people who spent the last six days pronouncing that the Durham visit was illegal will have the humility and good grace to admit they were wrong?

To be honest that is all secondary. The damage is already done, the impression will stick. Even if they admit they were wrong (as the second Guardian story partly was) it doesn't matter. Shitty game politics.

Gallowgate said:

@Philip_Thompson everyone knows why Dom really drove to Barnard Castle. You know. I know. The Police know. Stop pretending otherwise.

Fish and chips takeaway at 149?

Philip_Thompson said:

LOL Piers Morgan lied! The Police don't say Barnhard Castle did breach the rules just that it "might have" but is so minor they're not investigating further. 😂🙈

So I was right after all! Durham visit wasn't a breach of the rules. Barnhard Castle might have been but is so minor we will never know either way.

Move on already. What a farce!

They would have turned him back as it was too dangerous to travel.

If he had turned back they would have not taken enforcement action

Ministers have been saying Barnard Castle was not a breach the police would not have allowed him to complete his journey.

The optics just get worse

MaxPB said:

Philip_Thompson said:

I wonder how many people who spent the last six days pronouncing that the Durham visit was illegal will have the humility and good grace to admit they were wrong?

He broke the guidelines. The same guidelines that locked the rest of us at home. You're not going to escape that with legalism and neither is the Tory party. You're losing the 2024 election and millions of voters now believe the Tory party lives by different rules to the rest of us.

You're part of the problem, unfortunately.

Yes. It is not about the technical legality but the morality, and the idea the rules don't apply.
It is why tax payers get annoyed about complex, yet entirely legal but piss taking tax avoidance schemes.
And the relish they display at being cleverer than ordinary folk.

MarqueeMark said:

Philip_Thompson said:

I wonder how many people who spent the last six days pronouncing that the Durham visit was illegal will have the humility and good grace to admit they were wrong?

None. Cummings is STILL the architect of Brexit, and that carries a life sentence in their eyes...

Yes. that is very much the case. It is still the same old figures fighting a battle long since over.

It's the same with the obsession on social media with Darren Grimes.

Philip_Thompson said:

MaxPB said:

Philip_Thompson said:

I wonder how many people who spent the last six days pronouncing that the Durham visit was illegal will have the humility and good grace to admit they were wrong?

He broke the guidelines. The same guidelines that locked the rest of us at home. You're not going to escape that with legalism and neither is the Tory party. You're losing the 2024 election and millions of voters now believe the Tory party lives by different rules to the rest of us.

You're part of the problem, unfortunately.

He didn't break the law with the Durham trip, he's been cleared of that. I was laughed at here by many people but I was right, they were wrong, and Ihave been vindicated for my view. Who has the humility to apologise?

Time will roll on and the Tories will be judged at the next election by how good or bad a job they do over the next 4 years. As they should be. If Dom helps them do a good job then keeping him will win more votes in the long run.

It's not the law, its the "stay home, protect the NHS and save lives" he broke. He didn't stay home, he didn't protect the NHS and he put people in danger by driving 300 miles and then again to the castle.

You have not been vindicated, you are still dancing on the same head of the same pin trying to obfuscate to legalism when that's never been the question. It's the British sense of fair play that has been shattered and that's why it hurts the Tory party the most. The Tory party has always been the party of "if you play fair, we'll help you get on in life by not getting involved". That is completely destroyed. The reason that party exists is completely destroyed, the party is about helping people who stick to the rules get on, now it's not. It's about protecting the elite who break them (yes, waffle on about how he didn't technical break regulation 1322.5.e or whatever) and telling those who stuck to them to suck it up.

Philip_Thompson said:

MaxPB said:

Philip_Thompson said:

I wonder how many people who spent the last six days pronouncing that the Durham visit was illegal will have the humility and good grace to admit they were wrong?

He broke the guidelines. The same guidelines that locked the rest of us at home. You're not going to escape that with legalism and neither is the Tory party. You're losing the 2024 election and millions of voters now believe the Tory party lives by different rules to the rest of us.

You're part of the problem, unfortunately.

He didn't break the law with the Durham trip, he's been cleared of that. I was laughed at here by many people but I was right, they were wrong, and Ihave been vindicated for my view. Who has the humility to apologise?

Time will roll on and the Tories will be judged at the next election by how good or bad a job they do over the next 4 years. As they should be. If Dom helps them do a good job then keeping him will win more votes in the long run.

You are delusional, and the arrogance of your very silly post demonstrates why you venerate the totally repulsive Mr Cummings. He broke the spirit of the guidelines. Only a completely emotionally retarded moron would think what he did was OK, let alone try to defend it. Even if he did break an actual law rather than a guideline the police would have to think that the Crown Prosecution Service would stand a chance of conviction, which one could understand why they would shrink away from something so hyperpolitical. You have not been vindicated in your view. It is still the view of the politically myopic.

CorrectHorseBattery said:

So now Durham Police have concluded rules were broken will PB Tories call for him to go?

"Might have been a minor breach" - i.e. not even serious enough for a £100 fine.

kjh said:

Philip_Thompson said:

MaxPB said:

Philip_Thompson said:

I wonder how many people who spent the last six days pronouncing that the Durham visit was illegal will have the humility and good grace to admit they were wrong?

He broke the guidelines. The same guidelines that locked the rest of us at home. You're not going to escape that with legalism and neither is the Tory party. You're losing the 2024 election and millions of voters now believe the Tory party lives by different rules to the rest of us.

You're part of the problem, unfortunately.

He didn't break the law with the Durham trip, he's been cleared of that. I was laughed at here by many people but I was right, they were wrong, and Ihave been vindicated for my view. Who has the humility to apologise?

Time will roll on and the Tories will be judged at the next election by how good or bad a job they do over the next 4 years. As they should be. If Dom helps them do a good job then keeping him will win more votes in the long run.

Does anyone in the entire country have a clue what the law is now?

We (including the Police) only had a loose grasp on it before this.

A few weeks ago the Police thought it illegal to buy Easter Eggs ffs.

Now you can drive from London to Durham while infected it appears.

Times change so quickly.

THe Police in some parts of the country have been pathetic. Even going to a supermarket to check people weren't in "non essential" aisles.

Theuniondivvie said:

Some real world experiments.

https://twitter.com/BeckettUnite/status/1265969799189999617?s=20

Lesson - its time to reopen schools, but be prepared to temporarily shut a few again for a period of time.

kjh said:

Philip_Thompson said:

MaxPB said:

Philip_Thompson said:

I wonder how many people who spent the last six days pronouncing that the Durham visit was illegal will have the humility and good grace to admit they were wrong?

He broke the guidelines. The same guidelines that locked the rest of us at home. You're not going to escape that with legalism and neither is the Tory party. You're losing the 2024 election and millions of voters now believe the Tory party lives by different rules to the rest of us.

You're part of the problem, unfortunately.

He didn't break the law with the Durham trip, he's been cleared of that. I was laughed at here by many people but I was right, they were wrong, and Ihave been vindicated for my view. Who has the humility to apologise?

Time will roll on and the Tories will be judged at the next election by how good or bad a job they do over the next 4 years. As they should be. If Dom helps them do a good job then keeping him will win more votes in the long run.

Does anyone in the entire country have a clue what the law is now?

We (including the Police) only had a loose grasp on it before this.

A few weeks ago the Police thought it illegal to buy Easter Eggs ffs.

Now you can drive from London to Durham while infected it appears.

Times change so quickly.

I think the Dominic Cummings episode will ultimately have demonstrated to the nation that it is now unlikely the police will do you for buying Easter eggs.

It's been THAT important.

MarqueeMark said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

So now Durham Police have concluded rules were broken will PB Tories call for him to go?

BBC: "might have been a minor breach" says the police.

So give it up. If the cops don't know, you don't know, so let it drop - and start attacking the Govt. about 20,000 care home deaths. Or else people will think you don't care about them, only about the great political game of revenge for the Brexit vote. Which is not a good look.

they would have turned him back providing advice on the dangers of travelling during the pandemic crisis.

The optics just got worse.

turbotubbs said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Some real world experiments.

https://twitter.com/BeckettUnite/status/1265969799189999617?s=20

Lesson - its time to reopen schools, but be prepared to temporarily shut a few again for a period of time.

This government is nowhere near brave enough to take the headlines for that outcome.