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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Joe Biden’s VP pick – we’ve now got a date

SystemSystem Posts: 12,169
edited May 2020 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Joe Biden’s VP pick – we’ve now got a date

This is how the Hill is reporting statement’s from the campaign:

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,929
    Elizabeth Warren seems unlikely for two reasons. First, she is old enough to be vulnerable if age does become an issue; second, she is not a woman of colour, which according to some reports, Biden said he will pick. I'd expect Warren to get a Cabinet role; in other words, she would be to Biden what Hillary was to Obama and not what Biden was to Obama.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,600
    FPT

    "Why we remember wars but forget plagues
    Pandemics aren't represented in film or literature because they're too boring, too horrific and too depressing
    By Sean Thomas"

    https://unherd.com/2020/05/why-we-remember-wars-but-forget-plagues/
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,217

    Elizabeth Warren seems unlikely for two reasons. First, she is old enough to be vulnerable if age does become an issue; second, she is not a woman of colour, which according to some reports, Biden said he will pick. I'd expect Warren to get a Cabinet role; in other words, she would be to Biden what Hillary was to Obama and not what Biden was to Obama.

    Klobuchar, Warren and Buttigieg will all be in a Biden cabinet. If there is one. Bloomberg has to be a good bet for SecTreas.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,929
    There is another problem with backing Warren to be Biden's VP pick, which is that Biden might not be around to choose.

    It is a remarkable feature of this Presidential election that both presumptive candidates, Trump and Biden, can be backed at odds-against. In other words, you can back both to guarantee a profit -- provided they both run. Clearly the market is worried that one or both might drop out before November.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,217

    There is another problem with backing Warren to be Biden's VP pick, which is that Biden might not be around to choose.

    It is a remarkable feature of this Presidential election that both presumptive candidates, Trump and Biden, can be backed at odds-against. In other words, you can back both to guarantee a profit -- provided they both run. Clearly the market is worried that one or both might drop out before November.

    "Drop out"?
  • Elizabeth Warren seems unlikely for two reasons. First, she is old enough to be vulnerable if age does become an issue; second, she is not a woman of colour, which according to some reports, Biden said he will pick. I'd expect Warren to get a Cabinet role; in other words, she would be to Biden what Hillary was to Obama and not what Biden was to Obama.

    She really brings nothing electorally either. The New England vote should be locked in for Biden no matter what.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited May 2020
    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    "Why we remember wars but forget plagues
    Pandemics aren't represented in film or literature because they're too boring, too horrific and too depressing
    By Sean Thomas"

    https://unherd.com/2020/05/why-we-remember-wars-but-forget-plagues/

    Terrific piece by Sean. I pretty-much agree with him. A month or so back my Agent said he was looking forward to first-hand writing on this virus and I thought at the time, 'oh no.' I've just forwarded him Sean's essay.

    I don't think Coronavirus lit will be filling up people's Christmas stockings this year.

    Sean did miss the film Contagion, which is more like a documentary and well worth watching, as well as a host of other virus films:

    https://www.glamour.com/gallery/best-virus-movies

  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382

    Elizabeth Warren seems unlikely for two reasons. First, she is old enough to be vulnerable if age does become an issue; second, she is not a woman of colour, which according to some reports, Biden said he will pick. I'd expect Warren to get a Cabinet role; in other words, she would be to Biden what Hillary was to Obama and not what Biden was to Obama.

    She really brings nothing electorally either. The New England vote should be locked in for Biden no matter what.
    You are assuming that it will be a rational choice
  • fox327fox327 Posts: 370
    "What’s probably more concerning is the risks we haven’t thought of yet. If you had asked people in 1900 what the greatest risks to civilisation were, they probably wouldn’t have suggested nuclear weapons, genetic engineering or artificial intelligence, since none of these were yet invented. It’s possible we’re in the same situation looking forward to the next century. Future “unknown unknowns” might pose a greater risk than the risks we know today.

    Each time we discover a new technology, it’s a little like betting against a single number on a roulette wheel. Most of the time we win, and the technology is overall good. But each time there’s also a small chance the technology gives us more destructive power than we can handle, and we lose everything."

    I saw this on https://80000hours.org/articles/extinction-risk/, which was quoted on a maths blog. I am a little worried about permanent lockdown because no species on Earth has ever done this before, which is still around.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    "Why we remember wars but forget plagues
    Pandemics aren't represented in film or literature because they're too boring, too horrific and too depressing
    By Sean Thomas"

    https://unherd.com/2020/05/why-we-remember-wars-but-forget-plagues/

    I note it says he is based in London. However he waxes pretty lyrical about Boccaccio’s The Decameron:

    Following this brisk prologue, Boccaccio pursues the rich people into the Tuscan countryside, and the bulk of the book is 100 ribald, funny stories told by 10 posh young survivors, as they wait out the pox. The plague is, then, merely a framework.

    It’s almost as if he admires them. Kudos to him for staying in London and not buggering off to, I dunno, Durham or South Wales at the first opportunity.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837
    edited May 2020
    fox327 said:

    "What’s probably more concerning is the risks we haven’t thought of yet. If you had asked people in 1900 what the greatest risks to civilisation were, they probably wouldn’t have suggested nuclear weapons, genetic engineering or artificial intelligence, since none of these were yet invented. It’s possible we’re in the same situation looking forward to the next century. Future “unknown unknowns” might pose a greater risk than the risks we know today.

    Each time we discover a new technology, it’s a little like betting against a single number on a roulette wheel. Most of the time we win, and the technology is overall good. But each time there’s also a small chance the technology gives us more destructive power than we can handle, and we lose everything."

    I saw this on https://80000hours.org/articles/extinction-risk/, which was quoted on a maths blog. I am a little worried about permanent lockdown because no species on Earth has ever done this before, which is still around.

    If you are interested in the future of the human species and the threats to our current notion of humankind then there is no finer or more relevant author around than Yuvel Noah Harari.

    The combination of changes in computing power/AI and our increased understanding of our own internal biomechanics/biochemistry make the end of humankind (or its dominance/relevance) in the next 100 years, far more than a small chance.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837
    Surrey CC looking to have spectators based on 25% capacity.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/52822639

    Interesting to see if football clubs try likewise as I suggested they should earlier in the week. It can be done safely and bring in over half their ticket income for League 1/2 clubs, obviously less relevant in the prem where TV money dominates.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,464

    Surrey CC looking to have spectators based on 25% capacity.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/52822639

    Interesting to see if football clubs try likewise as I suggested they should earlier in the week. It can be done safely and bring in over half their ticket income for League 1/2 clubs, obviously less relevant in the prem where TV money dominates.

    It's not just attention dance money though, is it. Half-time beer sales are important too, and there's no way social distancing can be enforced in those queues. Or rather scrums!
  • A combined age of 147 years ... I don't think the American electorate will be too keen on such a proposition. I can't help but think the Democratic ticket will look a whole lot more attractive with either 55 year-old Kamala Harris or Amy Klobuchar aged 60 on board ... my money wold be on the latter.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,354
    edited May 2020

    A combined age of 147 years ... I don't think the American electorate will be too keen on such a proposition. I can't help but think the Democratic ticket will look a whole lot more attractive with either 55 year-old Kamala Harris or Amy Klobuchar aged 60 on board ... my money wold be on the latter.

    Hi PfP. All well?

    Agree with your reasoning but not AK, who presents a bit of a problem for black voters. If I had to guess, I'd say KH but wouldn't bet at the odds.

    Stay well. Keep washing those paws!

    PtP
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837

    Surrey CC looking to have spectators based on 25% capacity.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/52822639

    Interesting to see if football clubs try likewise as I suggested they should earlier in the week. It can be done safely and bring in over half their ticket income for League 1/2 clubs, obviously less relevant in the prem where TV money dominates.

    It's not just attention dance money though, is it. Half-time beer sales are important too, and there's no way social distancing can be enforced in those queues. Or rather scrums!
    Beer and food delivery by app to your seat! Wetherspoons have been doing it for ages, can easily be done (for football if govt temporarily relaxes drinking in view of the pitch rules, for other sports already allowed to watch and sup simultaneously!)

    People will have to pay more, but go less often, which fits in with the limited capacity.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    "Why we remember wars but forget plagues
    Pandemics aren't represented in film or literature because they're too boring, too horrific and too depressing
    By Sean Thomas"

    https://unherd.com/2020/05/why-we-remember-wars-but-forget-plagues/

    Terrific piece by Sean. I pretty-much agree with him. A month or so back my Agent said he was looking forward to first-hand writing on this virus and I thought at the time, 'oh no.' I've just forwarded him Sean's essay.

    I don't think Coronavirus lit will be filling up people's Christmas stockings this year.

    Sean did miss the film Contagion, which is more like a documentary and well worth watching, as well as a host of other virus films:

    https://www.glamour.com/gallery/best-virus-movies

    @eadric should be pretty annoyed that @SeanT has plagiarised his idea...
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837

    A combined age of 147 years ... I don't think the American electorate will be too keen on such a proposition. I can't help but think the Democratic ticket will look a whole lot more attractive with either 55 year-old Kamala Harris or Amy Klobuchar aged 60 on board ... my money wold be on the latter.

    Hi PfP. All well?

    Agree with your reasoning but not AK, who presents a bit of a problem for black voters. If I had to guess, I'd say KH but wouldn't bet at the odds.

    Stay well. Keep washing those paws!

    PtP
    Am I the only poster who thought PfP and PtP were the same? Apologies, now youve posted next to each other I shall remember you are each your own person!
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,464

    Surrey CC looking to have spectators based on 25% capacity.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/52822639

    Interesting to see if football clubs try likewise as I suggested they should earlier in the week. It can be done safely and bring in over half their ticket income for League 1/2 clubs, obviously less relevant in the prem where TV money dominates.

    It's not just attention dance money though, is it. Half-time beer sales are important too, and there's no way social distancing can be enforced in those queues. Or rather scrums!
    Beer and food delivery by app to your seat! Wetherspoons have been doing it for ages, can easily be done (for football if govt temporarily relaxes drinking in view of the pitch rules, for other sports already allowed to watch and sup simultaneously!)

    People will have to pay more, but go less often, which fits in with the limited capacity.
    Certainly wouldn't be a problem for cricket.

    Sorry about missing the glitch as a result of 'predictive' text, by the way!
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,354

    A combined age of 147 years ... I don't think the American electorate will be too keen on such a proposition. I can't help but think the Democratic ticket will look a whole lot more attractive with either 55 year-old Kamala Harris or Amy Klobuchar aged 60 on board ... my money wold be on the latter.

    Hi PfP. All well?

    Agree with your reasoning but not AK, who presents a bit of a problem for black voters. If I had to guess, I'd say KH but wouldn't bet at the odds.

    Stay well. Keep washing those paws!

    PtP
    Am I the only poster who thought PfP and PtP were the same? Apologies, now youve posted next to each other I shall remember you are each your own person!
    There used to be notional £1 fine for mixing us up but the joke died long ago.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    A combined age of 147 years ... I don't think the American electorate will be too keen on such a proposition. I can't help but think the Democratic ticket will look a whole lot more attractive with either 55 year-old Kamala Harris or Amy Klobuchar aged 60 on board ... my money wold be on the latter.

    Hi PfP. All well?

    Agree with your reasoning but not AK, who presents a bit of a problem for black voters. If I had to guess, I'd say KH but wouldn't bet at the odds.

    Stay well. Keep washing those paws!

    PtP
    Am I the only poster who thought PfP and PtP were the same? Apologies, now youve posted next to each other I shall remember you are each your own person!
    There used to be notional £1 fine for mixing us up but the joke died long ago.
    How could anyone mix you two up? Crazy notion!

    :D:D
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    "Why we remember wars but forget plagues
    Pandemics aren't represented in film or literature because they're too boring, too horrific and too depressing
    By Sean Thomas"

    https://unherd.com/2020/05/why-we-remember-wars-but-forget-plagues/

    Terrific piece by Sean. I pretty-much agree with him. A month or so back my Agent said he was looking forward to first-hand writing on this virus and I thought at the time, 'oh no.' I've just forwarded him Sean's essay.

    I don't think Coronavirus lit will be filling up people's Christmas stockings this year.

    Sean did miss the film Contagion, which is more like a documentary and well worth watching, as well as a host of other virus films:

    https://www.glamour.com/gallery/best-virus-movies

    @eadric should be pretty annoyed that @SeanT has plagiarised his idea...
    Let us hope that @Bryonic does not see it :open_mouth:
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    What appears to be a very accurate and sensitive antibody test for saliva samples. It’s based on a widely used commercial assay technology (Luminex), so ought to be rapidly scaleable.

    COVID-19 serology at population scale: SARS-CoV-2-specific antibody responses in saliva
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.24.20112300v1.full.pdf
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    fox327 said:

    "What’s probably more concerning is the risks we haven’t thought of yet. If you had asked people in 1900 what the greatest risks to civilisation were, they probably wouldn’t have suggested nuclear weapons, genetic engineering or artificial intelligence, since none of these were yet invented. It’s possible we’re in the same situation looking forward to the next century. Future “unknown unknowns” might pose a greater risk than the risks we know today.

    Each time we discover a new technology, it’s a little like betting against a single number on a roulette wheel. Most of the time we win, and the technology is overall good. But each time there’s also a small chance the technology gives us more destructive power than we can handle, and we lose everything."

    I saw this on https://80000hours.org/articles/extinction-risk/, which was quoted on a maths blog. I am a little worried about permanent lockdown because no species on Earth has ever done this before, which is still around.

    If you are interested in the future of the human species and the threats to our current notion of humankind then there is no finer or more relevant author around than Yuvel Noah Harari.

    The combination of changes in computing power/AI and our increased understanding of our own internal biomechanics/biochemistry make the end of humankind (or its dominance/relevance) in the next 100 years, far more than a small chance.
    The human species going extinct will happen eventually. Some figure like 99.9% of all species have gone extinct and a species gets a run of about 10 million years on average so we probably have time for a cuppa or two...
  • A combined age of 147 years ... I don't think the American electorate will be too keen on such a proposition. I can't help but think the Democratic ticket will look a whole lot more attractive with either 55 year-old Kamala Harris or Amy Klobuchar aged 60 on board ... my money wold be on the latter.

    Hi PfP. All well?

    Agree with your reasoning but not AK, who presents a bit of a problem for black voters. If I had to guess, I'd say KH but wouldn't bet at the odds.

    Stay well. Keep washing those paws!

    PtP
    Yes, I'm fine thanks PTP, hoping to stay safe here in Yorkshire. I trust you're OK too and I noticed that you've also moved out of the Big Smoke.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    How about a compromise. All international travellers are required to quarantine in Durham?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I was discussing the US election with my mum of all people the other night (she has shown no previous interest in US politics). I got into hot water when I suggested that Joe Biden was too old - “he’s the same age as you, mum” is apparently not a welcome juxtaposition. She agreed with the sentiment though.

    I’m expecting a much younger running mate. Much. Though the risk is that she’ll look like a trophy bride, which I’m sure Donald Trump would have fun with.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    Nigelb said:

    What appears to be a very accurate and sensitive antibody test for saliva samples. It’s based on a widely used commercial assay technology (Luminex), so ought to be rapidly scaleable.

    COVID-19 serology at population scale: SARS-CoV-2-specific antibody responses in saliva
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.24.20112300v1.full.pdf

    It would be good to know how widespread this thing actually is.

    Meanwhile in other news, a friend who stayed away from his dying mother (because its COVID right?) is going to the funeral today. His opinion of Cummings is unprintable...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,222
    And at least one person has been spending their lockdown time productively...

    https://twitter.com/michaelschwab13/status/1265344589256372227
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,205

    She is not a woman of colour, which according to some reports, Biden said he will pick.

    1/2020th
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    How does the government propose to police such self-isolations? Or is it putting up new arrivals in the Heathrow Hilton?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    fox327 said:

    "What’s probably more concerning is the risks we haven’t thought of yet. If you had asked people in 1900 what the greatest risks to civilisation were, they probably wouldn’t have suggested nuclear weapons, genetic engineering or artificial intelligence, since none of these were yet invented. It’s possible we’re in the same situation looking forward to the next century. Future “unknown unknowns” might pose a greater risk than the risks we know today.

    Each time we discover a new technology, it’s a little like betting against a single number on a roulette wheel. Most of the time we win, and the technology is overall good. But each time there’s also a small chance the technology gives us more destructive power than we can handle, and we lose everything."

    I saw this on https://80000hours.org/articles/extinction-risk/, which was quoted on a maths blog. I am a little worried about permanent lockdown because no species on Earth has ever done this before, which is still around.

    If you are interested in the future of the human species and the threats to our current notion of humankind then there is no finer or more relevant author around than Yuvel Noah Harari.

    The combination of changes in computing power/AI and our increased understanding of our own internal biomechanics/biochemistry make the end of humankind (or its dominance/relevance) in the next 100 years, far more than a small chance.
    The human species going extinct will happen eventually. Some figure like 99.9% of all species have gone extinct and a species gets a run of about 10 million years on average so we probably have time for a cuppa or two...
    No species able to contemplate the possibility of its own extinction has ever gone extinct. Nor has any species which had invented the iPhone, or pringles. That statistic tells us nothing of any use at all.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,914

    Elizabeth Warren seems unlikely for two reasons. First, she is old enough to be vulnerable if age does become an issue; second, she is not a woman of colour, which according to some reports, Biden said he will pick. I'd expect Warren to get a Cabinet role; in other words, she would be to Biden what Hillary was to Obama and not what Biden was to Obama.

    She really brings nothing electorally either. The New England vote should be locked in for Biden no matter what.
    She would help consolidate those who supported Bernie.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,837

    How does the government propose to police such self-isolations? Or is it putting up new arrivals in the Heathrow Hilton?
    If the govt really wanted to do this, give travellers the choice of:

    Electronic tag for two weeks
    Stay in airport hotel for two weeks at subsidised rate, say £400

    And exempt countries that are low risk, block completely high risk (including USA) and quarantine the middle risk arrivals.

    But we are not fussed about it, it is to placate the masses who see it as common sense. Just another folly of governing by opinion poll.

  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Nigelb said:

    What appears to be a very accurate and sensitive antibody test for saliva samples. It’s based on a widely used commercial assay technology (Luminex), so ought to be rapidly scaleable.

    COVID-19 serology at population scale: SARS-CoV-2-specific antibody responses in saliva
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.24.20112300v1.full.pdf

    It would be good to know how widespread this thing actually is.

    Meanwhile in other news, a friend who stayed away from his dying mother (because its COVID right?) is going to the funeral today. His opinion of Cummings is unprintable...
    Also from my mother on the phone last night: she has a list of other old people she calls up. Apparently Dominic Cummings is the first subject they all raise and they’re all furious (her word).
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Seems to me that this is an article worth reading - even if the conclusion one might draw from it is not necessarily that the current approach is mistaken but rather that “there are no good options”.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/28/coronavirus-infection-rate-too-high-second-wave

    (The extent you which you tend towards that conclusion depends on how you see the spread and/or measures taken for suppression of coronavirus as impacting on other areas/outcomes).
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,805
    Mr. Meeks, a lot of people (though perhaps fewer due to recent events...) would do it themselves.

    However, running a quarantine after the rise and peak, during a quieter summer, to hit sports and hospitality, before a second wave comes in could be the worst possible timing.

    Amendments to policy may be needed quickly, but having tests on hand with a commensurate fee may be wiser, likewise general advice to not go out much upon return.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    "Why we remember wars but forget plagues
    Pandemics aren't represented in film or literature because they're too boring, too horrific and too depressing
    By Sean Thomas"

    https://unherd.com/2020/05/why-we-remember-wars-but-forget-plagues/

    Terrific piece by Sean. I pretty-much agree with him. A month or so back my Agent said he was looking forward to first-hand writing on this virus and I thought at the time, 'oh no.' I've just forwarded him Sean's essay.

    I don't think Coronavirus lit will be filling up people's Christmas stockings this year.

    Sean did miss the film Contagion, which is more like a documentary and well worth watching, as well as a host of other virus films:

    https://www.glamour.com/gallery/best-virus-movies

    @eadric should be pretty annoyed that @SeanT has plagiarised his idea...
    If he has been keeping “diaries” they look likely to be about as honest as Cummings’s account of his Big Day Out.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    IshmaelZ said:

    fox327 said:

    "What’s probably more concerning is the risks we haven’t thought of yet. If you had asked people in 1900 what the greatest risks to civilisation were, they probably wouldn’t have suggested nuclear weapons, genetic engineering or artificial intelligence, since none of these were yet invented. It’s possible we’re in the same situation looking forward to the next century. Future “unknown unknowns” might pose a greater risk than the risks we know today.

    Each time we discover a new technology, it’s a little like betting against a single number on a roulette wheel. Most of the time we win, and the technology is overall good. But each time there’s also a small chance the technology gives us more destructive power than we can handle, and we lose everything."

    I saw this on https://80000hours.org/articles/extinction-risk/, which was quoted on a maths blog. I am a little worried about permanent lockdown because no species on Earth has ever done this before, which is still around.

    If you are interested in the future of the human species and the threats to our current notion of humankind then there is no finer or more relevant author around than Yuvel Noah Harari.

    The combination of changes in computing power/AI and our increased understanding of our own internal biomechanics/biochemistry make the end of humankind (or its dominance/relevance) in the next 100 years, far more than a small chance.
    The human species going extinct will happen eventually. Some figure like 99.9% of all species have gone extinct and a species gets a run of about 10 million years on average so we probably have time for a cuppa or two...
    No species able to contemplate the possibility of its own extinction has ever gone extinct. Nor has any species which had invented the iPhone, or pringles. That statistic tells us nothing of any use at all.
    What we currently consider humans may go extinct very rapidly indeed. We might nuke ourselves out of existence but it must be at least as likely that we’ll upgrade ourselves out of existence.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    Biden is a painfully weak candidate and he gets weaker by the day. Against a standard, rational (assuming such a thing still exists) republican he would have pretty much no chance. Against Trump he clearly does. This makes his selection of VP important. This is a VP who, Cheney style, is likely to carry a lot of the heavy lifting in the administration and who has a much better than average chance of taking over completely within the 4 year term.
    Logic and common sense would therefore suggest a VP with actual management experience such as Whitmer but logic and common sense seem to have little to do with these selections.
    There is a slow dawning comprehension that we face an economic catastrophe in this country but so does the United States. With over 100k dead already and probably the best part of another 100k to come they face very similar dilemmas about how to return to normal, what key industries to support, how to fund this etc. By January most of the decisions will have been made by Trump but clearing up his mess is going to make Hercules work in the Sisyphean stables look like a bit of spring cleaning. The US desperately needed a Bill Clinton but have got Joe Biden. Its going to be a very rough ride.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,798
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    What appears to be a very accurate and sensitive antibody test for saliva samples. It’s based on a widely used commercial assay technology (Luminex), so ought to be rapidly scaleable.

    COVID-19 serology at population scale: SARS-CoV-2-specific antibody responses in saliva
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.24.20112300v1.full.pdf

    It would be good to know how widespread this thing actually is.

    Meanwhile in other news, a friend who stayed away from his dying mother (because its COVID right?) is going to the funeral today. His opinion of Cummings is unprintable...
    Also from my mother on the phone last night: she has a list of other old people she calls up. Apparently Dominic Cummings is the first subject they all raise and they’re all furious (her word).
    I’ve passed on from furious to contempt.
    I feel sorry for him. Imagine living with no moral compass. Sad!
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,798
    IshmaelZ said:

    fox327 said:

    "What’s probably more concerning is the risks we haven’t thought of yet. If you had asked people in 1900 what the greatest risks to civilisation were, they probably wouldn’t have suggested nuclear weapons, genetic engineering or artificial intelligence, since none of these were yet invented. It’s possible we’re in the same situation looking forward to the next century. Future “unknown unknowns” might pose a greater risk than the risks we know today.

    Each time we discover a new technology, it’s a little like betting against a single number on a roulette wheel. Most of the time we win, and the technology is overall good. But each time there’s also a small chance the technology gives us more destructive power than we can handle, and we lose everything."

    I saw this on https://80000hours.org/articles/extinction-risk/, which was quoted on a maths blog. I am a little worried about permanent lockdown because no species on Earth has ever done this before, which is still around.

    If you are interested in the future of the human species and the threats to our current notion of humankind then there is no finer or more relevant author around than Yuvel Noah Harari.

    The combination of changes in computing power/AI and our increased understanding of our own internal biomechanics/biochemistry make the end of humankind (or its dominance/relevance) in the next 100 years, far more than a small chance.
    The human species going extinct will happen eventually. Some figure like 99.9% of all species have gone extinct and a species gets a run of about 10 million years on average so we probably have time for a cuppa or two...
    No species able to contemplate the possibility of its own extinction has ever gone extinct. Nor has any species which had invented the iPhone, or pringles. That statistic tells us nothing of any use at all.
    I would say that the invention of Pringles is entirely consistent with imminent extinction.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405
    I assume he hasn't got to thousands because he hasn't had time to speak to thousands yet.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,902

    How does the government propose to police such self-isolations? Or is it putting up new arrivals in the Heathrow Hilton?
    Get off the plane at Heathrow. Onto Heathrow Express. A bus. Then a train. And a taxi home. Then you have to self isolated to make sure you only drive to Barnard Castle as a test to see if you have the pox or not.

    In other countries you are escorted from the plane and essentially locked up in a quarantine hotel room. In the UK, "quarantine" is designed to shut up Farage and sound tough to Brexiteers rather than have a function as actual quarantine.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    alex_ said:

    Seems to me that this is an article worth reading - even if the conclusion one might draw from it is not necessarily that the current approach is mistaken but rather that “there are no good options”.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/28/coronavirus-infection-rate-too-high-second-wave

    (The extent you which you tend towards that conclusion depends on how you see the spread and/or measures taken for suppression of coronavirus as impacting on other areas/outcomes).

    Yes very good article, thanks for the link. I am pleased to see that super spreaders are finally getting more attention. I fear we are weeks (at best) away from an even adequate trace and test system but the economic imperatives are going to force us to relax the lockdown anyway. This means more death but, frankly, so does the alternative. As you say there are no particularly good options from here.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405
    edited May 2020
    Foxy said:

    How about a compromise. All international travellers are required to quarantine in Durham?
    What has Durham done to deserve that? It would however keep the airport busy
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    "Why we remember wars but forget plagues
    Pandemics aren't represented in film or literature because they're too boring, too horrific and too depressing
    By Sean Thomas"

    https://unherd.com/2020/05/why-we-remember-wars-but-forget-plagues/

    Terrific piece by Sean. I pretty-much agree with him. A month or so back my Agent said he was looking forward to first-hand writing on this virus and I thought at the time, 'oh no.' I've just forwarded him Sean's essay.

    I don't think Coronavirus lit will be filling up people's Christmas stockings this year.

    Sean did miss the film Contagion, which is more like a documentary and well worth watching, as well as a host of other virus films:

    https://www.glamour.com/gallery/best-virus-movies

    @eadric should be pretty annoyed that @SeanT has plagiarised his idea...
    Coincidentally, SeanT. was posting pictures during lockdown (on a different platform) of Cosmeston Lakes, whilst Eadric would describe on here his daily walks around Penarth. I wonder whether their paths ever crossed?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,805
    Mr. Pete, it seems unlikely given the advice on social distancing.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    "Why we remember wars but forget plagues
    Pandemics aren't represented in film or literature because they're too boring, too horrific and too depressing
    By Sean Thomas"

    https://unherd.com/2020/05/why-we-remember-wars-but-forget-plagues/

    Terrific piece by Sean. I pretty-much agree with him. A month or so back my Agent said he was looking forward to first-hand writing on this virus and I thought at the time, 'oh no.' I've just forwarded him Sean's essay.

    I don't think Coronavirus lit will be filling up people's Christmas stockings this year.

    Sean did miss the film Contagion, which is more like a documentary and well worth watching, as well as a host of other virus films:

    https://www.glamour.com/gallery/best-virus-movies

    @eadric should be pretty annoyed that @SeanT has plagiarised his idea...
    Coincidentally, SeanT. was posting pictures during lockdown (on a different platform) of Cosmeston Lakes, whilst Eadric would describe on here his daily walks around Penarth. I wonder whether their paths ever crossed?
    Ten people, all the product of one author’s imagination, telling ten different stories, all holed up together in the same country retreat.

    And then there’s Boccaccio’s Decameron.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    The Starmer Random Headline Generator's Test run.

    https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1265893315486126081



  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    IshmaelZ said:

    fox327 said:

    "What’s probably more concerning is the risks we haven’t thought of yet. If you had asked people in 1900 what the greatest risks to civilisation were, they probably wouldn’t have suggested nuclear weapons, genetic engineering or artificial intelligence, since none of these were yet invented. It’s possible we’re in the same situation looking forward to the next century. Future “unknown unknowns” might pose a greater risk than the risks we know today.

    Each time we discover a new technology, it’s a little like betting against a single number on a roulette wheel. Most of the time we win, and the technology is overall good. But each time there’s also a small chance the technology gives us more destructive power than we can handle, and we lose everything."

    I saw this on https://80000hours.org/articles/extinction-risk/, which was quoted on a maths blog. I am a little worried about permanent lockdown because no species on Earth has ever done this before, which is still around.

    If you are interested in the future of the human species and the threats to our current notion of humankind then there is no finer or more relevant author around than Yuvel Noah Harari.

    The combination of changes in computing power/AI and our increased understanding of our own internal biomechanics/biochemistry make the end of humankind (or its dominance/relevance) in the next 100 years, far more than a small chance.
    The human species going extinct will happen eventually. Some figure like 99.9% of all species have gone extinct and a species gets a run of about 10 million years on average so we probably have time for a cuppa or two...
    No species able to contemplate the possibility of its own extinction has ever gone extinct. Nor has any species which had invented the iPhone, or pringles. That statistic tells us nothing of any use at all.
    What we currently consider humans may go extinct very rapidly indeed. We might nuke ourselves out of existence but it must be at least as likely that we’ll upgrade ourselves out of existence.
    Sure, if we hang on for long enough (possibly as little as another century) we should be able to upload our personalities into von Neumann probes and head out into space. Leaving earth as a sort of sink estate for the remaining meat people.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862

    How does the government propose to police such self-isolations? Or is it putting up new arrivals in the Heathrow Hilton?
    Get off the plane at Heathrow. Onto Heathrow Express. A bus. Then a train. And a taxi home. Then you have to self isolated to make sure you only drive to Barnard Castle as a test to see if you have the pox or not.

    In other countries you are escorted from the plane and essentially locked up in a quarantine hotel room. In the UK, "quarantine" is designed to shut up Farage and sound tough to Brexiteers rather than have a function as actual quarantine.
    What is crystal clear is that for whatever reasons, and incompetence and ineptitude certainly play their part, the R number for the next few months is going to be hovering at or slightly above 1. Anything that helps control it needs careful consideration and international travellers are an obvious potential source of risk. Again there are economic consequences from further disrupting international travel but I do not think that this is a risk that we can take. But then I have thought this since February.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Re: Cummings. Whilst I get that people are very angry I still doubt that most have really more than a peripheral knowledge of the story, beyond the facts that he had (or suspected he had coronavirus), that he travelled to isolate with his parents rather than stay at home, and made some sort of trip to Barnard castle.

    However, unless you genuinely believe that the travel to Durham was for any other reason than concern for how he and his wife would cope with their child if they both became seriously ill, then most of the cases of people complaining that they followed the rules when he didn’t are probably actually probably not directly comparable.

    Interestingly I recall somebody in this site WAS in a very similar situation and was out of their mind with how they would cope (whether they theoretically had such a parental “option” I don’t know).
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    What appears to be a very accurate and sensitive antibody test for saliva samples. It’s based on a widely used commercial assay technology (Luminex), so ought to be rapidly scaleable.

    COVID-19 serology at population scale: SARS-CoV-2-specific antibody responses in saliva
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.24.20112300v1.full.pdf

    It would be good to know how widespread this thing actually is.

    Meanwhile in other news, a friend who stayed away from his dying mother (because its COVID right?) is going to the funeral today. His opinion of Cummings is unprintable...
    Also from my mother on the phone last night: she has a list of other old people she calls up. Apparently Dominic Cummings is the first subject they all raise and they’re all furious (her word).
    I’ve passed on from furious to contempt.
    I feel sorry for him. Imagine living with no moral compass. Sad!
    Surely if he lacks a moral compass, he will not be bothered? ;)
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    What appears to be a very accurate and sensitive antibody test for saliva samples. It’s based on a widely used commercial assay technology (Luminex), so ought to be rapidly scaleable.

    COVID-19 serology at population scale: SARS-CoV-2-specific antibody responses in saliva
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.24.20112300v1.full.pdf

    It would be good to know how widespread this thing actually is.

    Meanwhile in other news, a friend who stayed away from his dying mother (because its COVID right?) is going to the funeral today. His opinion of Cummings is unprintable...
    Also from my mother on the phone last night: she has a list of other old people she calls up. Apparently Dominic Cummings is the first subject they all raise and they’re all furious (her word).
    I’ve passed on from furious to contempt.
    Its nothing to do with the journey.. or if it was its now about get Cummings.. at any price.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002
    alex_ said:

    unless you genuinely believe that the travel to Durham was for any other reason than concern for how he and his wife would cope with their child if they both became seriously ill

    Everything else he said was bullshit. There is no reason to believe that bit either.

    I note that his wife's article about their illness has been referred

    https://twitter.com/mediaguardian/status/1265886406980722689
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    dr_spyn said:

    The Starmer Random Headline Generator's Test run.

    https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1265893315486126081



    The logistics of this may well be beyond the NHS. But he is right that this is exactly what is required.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405
    Scott_xP said:
    Note - in reality this is partly because we are faster at recording this information than other countries. But let's not let facts get in the way of the story.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    "Why we remember wars but forget plagues
    Pandemics aren't represented in film or literature because they're too boring, too horrific and too depressing
    By Sean Thomas"

    https://unherd.com/2020/05/why-we-remember-wars-but-forget-plagues/

    Terrific piece by Sean. I pretty-much agree with him. A month or so back my Agent said he was looking forward to first-hand writing on this virus and I thought at the time, 'oh no.' I've just forwarded him Sean's essay.

    I don't think Coronavirus lit will be filling up people's Christmas stockings this year.

    Sean did miss the film Contagion, which is more like a documentary and well worth watching, as well as a host of other virus films:

    https://www.glamour.com/gallery/best-virus-movies

    @eadric should be pretty annoyed that @SeanT has plagiarised his idea...
    Coincidentally, SeanT. was posting pictures during lockdown (on a different platform) of Cosmeston Lakes, whilst Eadric would describe on here his daily walks around Penarth. I wonder whether their paths ever crossed?
    Ten people, all the product of one author’s imagination, telling ten different stories, all holed up together in the same country retreat.

    And then there’s Boccaccio’s Decameron.
    My first thought in reading your post was I would rather be in Florence than the Vale of Glamorgan during lockdown. Then I recalled Northern Italy was like a war zone only a few weeks ago
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    "Why we remember wars but forget plagues
    Pandemics aren't represented in film or literature because they're too boring, too horrific and too depressing
    By Sean Thomas"

    https://unherd.com/2020/05/why-we-remember-wars-but-forget-plagues/

    Terrific piece by Sean. I pretty-much agree with him. A month or so back my Agent said he was looking forward to first-hand writing on this virus and I thought at the time, 'oh no.' I've just forwarded him Sean's essay.

    I don't think Coronavirus lit will be filling up people's Christmas stockings this year.

    Sean did miss the film Contagion, which is more like a documentary and well worth watching, as well as a host of other virus films:

    https://www.glamour.com/gallery/best-virus-movies

    @eadric should be pretty annoyed that @SeanT has plagiarised his idea...
    Coincidentally, SeanT. was posting pictures during lockdown (on a different platform) of Cosmeston Lakes, whilst Eadric would describe on here his daily walks around Penarth. I wonder whether their paths ever crossed?
    Ten people, all the product of one author’s imagination, telling ten different stories, all holed up together in the same country retreat.

    And then there’s Boccaccio’s Decameron.
    My first thought in reading your post was I would rather be in Florence than the Vale of Glamorgan during lockdown. Then I recalled Northern Italy was like a war zone only a few weeks ago
    A long way from Florence, though. Most of Italy was less affected than most of the UK.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    edited May 2020
    IshmaelZ said:

    fox327 said:

    "What’s probably more concerning is the risks we haven’t thought of yet. If you had asked people in 1900 what the greatest risks to civilisation were, they probably wouldn’t have suggested nuclear weapons, genetic engineering or artificial intelligence, since none of these were yet invented. It’s possible we’re in the same situation looking forward to the next century. Future “unknown unknowns” might pose a greater risk than the risks we know today.

    Each time we discover a new technology, it’s a little like betting against a single number on a roulette wheel. Most of the time we win, and the technology is overall good. But each time there’s also a small chance the technology gives us more destructive power than we can handle, and we lose everything."

    I saw this on https://80000hours.org/articles/extinction-risk/, which was quoted on a maths blog. I am a little worried about permanent lockdown because no species on Earth has ever done this before, which is still around.

    If you are interested in the future of the human species and the threats to our current notion of humankind then there is no finer or more relevant author around than Yuvel Noah Harari.

    The combination of changes in computing power/AI and our increased understanding of our own internal biomechanics/biochemistry make the end of humankind (or its dominance/relevance) in the next 100 years, far more than a small chance.
    The human species going extinct will happen eventually. Some figure like 99.9% of all species have gone extinct and a species gets a run of about 10 million years on average so we probably have time for a cuppa or two...
    No species able to contemplate the possibility of its own extinction has ever gone extinct. ...
    How do you know? Prove that there was not an (say) intelligent dinosaur species that understood evolution.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002
    eek said:

    Note - in reality this is partly because we are faster at recording this information than other countries. But let's not let facts get in the way of the story.

    Ooops

    https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1265891476241866753
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    What appears to be a very accurate and sensitive antibody test for saliva samples. It’s based on a widely used commercial assay technology (Luminex), so ought to be rapidly scaleable.

    COVID-19 serology at population scale: SARS-CoV-2-specific antibody responses in saliva
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.24.20112300v1.full.pdf

    It would be good to know how widespread this thing actually is.

    Meanwhile in other news, a friend who stayed away from his dying mother (because its COVID right?) is going to the funeral today. His opinion of Cummings is unprintable...
    Also from my mother on the phone last night: she has a list of other old people she calls up. Apparently Dominic Cummings is the first subject they all raise and they’re all furious (her word).
    I’ve passed on from furious to contempt.
    I feel sorry for him. Imagine living with no moral compass. Sad!
    Surely if he lacks a moral compass, he will not be bothered? ;)
    It’s good for anti-Tories for this to die down for a while to prevent burnout. There will be an Episode 2. He’ll do something newsworthy (doesn’t even have to be anything negative) to allow people to be reminded he has a strong influence on their lives. And the resentment will be stoked.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,354
    Scott_xP said:

    alex_ said:

    unless you genuinely believe that the travel to Durham was for any other reason than concern for how he and his wife would cope with their child if they both became seriously ill

    Everything else he said was bullshit. There is no reason to believe that bit either.

    I note that his wife's article about their illness has been referred

    https://twitter.com/mediaguardian/status/1265886406980722689
    Is she not allowed to use 'poetic licence'? I mean it's not as if she were presenting a witness statement.

    Her husband on the other hand....
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    Scott_xP said:

    alex_ said:

    unless you genuinely believe that the travel to Durham was for any other reason than concern for how he and his wife would cope with their child if they both became seriously ill

    Everything else he said was bullshit. There is no reason to believe that bit either.

    I note that his wife's article about their illness has been referred

    https://twitter.com/mediaguardian/status/1265886406980722689
    Is she not allowed to use 'poetic licence'? I mean it's not as if she were presenting a witness statement.

    Her husband on the other hand....
    A diary of life in the London lockdown from someone who had fled hundreds of miles away at the first sign of trouble. Who would think of doing such a thing?
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,354

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    What appears to be a very accurate and sensitive antibody test for saliva samples. It’s based on a widely used commercial assay technology (Luminex), so ought to be rapidly scaleable.

    COVID-19 serology at population scale: SARS-CoV-2-specific antibody responses in saliva
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.24.20112300v1.full.pdf

    It would be good to know how widespread this thing actually is.

    Meanwhile in other news, a friend who stayed away from his dying mother (because its COVID right?) is going to the funeral today. His opinion of Cummings is unprintable...
    Also from my mother on the phone last night: she has a list of other old people she calls up. Apparently Dominic Cummings is the first subject they all raise and they’re all furious (her word).
    I’ve passed on from furious to contempt.
    Its nothing to do with the journey.. or if it was its now about get Cummings.. at any price.
    No, not 'at any price'. But why shouldn't people want to get him? One law for him, another for the rest of us. He should be reminded regularly, and so should Boris.

    It didn't have to be that way.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    Nigelb said:

    What appears to be a very accurate and sensitive antibody test for saliva samples. It’s based on a widely used commercial assay technology (Luminex), so ought to be rapidly scaleable.

    COVID-19 serology at population scale: SARS-CoV-2-specific antibody responses in saliva
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.24.20112300v1.full.pdf

    It would be good to know how widespread this thing actually is.

    Meanwhile in other news, a friend who stayed away from his dying mother (because its COVID right?) is going to the funeral today. His opinion of Cummings is unprintable...
    Also from my mother on the phone last night: she has a list of other old people she calls up. Apparently Dominic Cummings is the first subject they all raise and they’re all furious (her word).
    Cummings may survive in post, but the damage inflicted on Boris is considerable. If anything, Boris's determination to hang on to Cummings shows how weak Boris feels himself to be.

    I have no doubt that the wolves in the Tory Party will be waiting for the next sign of weakness to finish off the hapless Boris.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    DougSeal said:
    Its beyond depressing that 4 months on we have made so little progress in ascertaining the true extent of this virus in the community. PHE's obsession with a very high degree of accuracy in the tests means that we don't have even approximate data which would have been very useful in determining policy. There is little point in claiming to follow the science if the science is bereft of facts.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    alex_ said:

    unless you genuinely believe that the travel to Durham was for any other reason than concern for how he and his wife would cope with their child if they both became seriously ill

    Everything else he said was bullshit. There is no reason to believe that bit either.

    I note that his wife's article about their illness has been referred

    https://twitter.com/mediaguardian/status/1265886406980722689
    Is she not allowed to use 'poetic licence'? I mean it's not as if she were presenting a witness statement.

    Her husband on the other hand....
    A diary of life in the London lockdown from someone who had fled hundreds of miles away at the first sign of trouble. Who would think of doing such a thing?
    There was an episode of Foyle’s war involving this.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002

    Cummings may survive in post, but the damage inflicted on Boris is considerable. If anything, Boris's determination to hang on to Cummings shows how weak Boris feels himself to be.

    I have no doubt that the wolves in the Tory Party will be waiting for the next sign of weakness to finish off the hapless Boris.

    The Brexiteers wanted Cummings gone because he scorned them.

    They have succeeded instead in torching their hero

    Heart of stone, etc...
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,354
    DougSeal said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    What appears to be a very accurate and sensitive antibody test for saliva samples. It’s based on a widely used commercial assay technology (Luminex), so ought to be rapidly scaleable.

    COVID-19 serology at population scale: SARS-CoV-2-specific antibody responses in saliva
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.24.20112300v1.full.pdf

    It would be good to know how widespread this thing actually is.

    Meanwhile in other news, a friend who stayed away from his dying mother (because its COVID right?) is going to the funeral today. His opinion of Cummings is unprintable...
    Also from my mother on the phone last night: she has a list of other old people she calls up. Apparently Dominic Cummings is the first subject they all raise and they’re all furious (her word).
    I’ve passed on from furious to contempt.
    I feel sorry for him. Imagine living with no moral compass. Sad!
    Surely if he lacks a moral compass, he will not be bothered? ;)
    It’s good for anti-Tories for this to die down for a while to prevent burnout. There will be an Episode 2. He’ll do something newsworthy (doesn’t even have to be anything negative) to allow people to be reminded he has a strong influence on their lives. And the resentment will be stoked.
    The issue will not go away, or not at least as long as the Government is asking its citizens to exercise restraint, civic duty and the like. Why should it?
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    Scott_xP said:

    eek said:

    Note - in reality this is partly because we are faster at recording this information than other countries. But let's not let facts get in the way of the story.

    Ooops

    https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1265891476241866753
    I wonder if Scott truly believes that the UK has had the most excess deaths in the world, or maybe we have a world leading statistics collecting organisation called the ONS and other countries don't.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Scott_xP said:

    alex_ said:

    unless you genuinely believe that the travel to Durham was for any other reason than concern for how he and his wife would cope with their child if they both became seriously ill

    Everything else he said was bullshit. There is no reason to believe that bit either.

    I note that his wife's article about their illness has been referred

    https://twitter.com/mediaguardian/status/1265886406980722689
    That photo is pure Hunter S Thompson - We were somewhere near Barstow on the edge of the desert when the drugs began to take hold.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Now it’s the NHS telling people to quarantine not the government, do they think people are stupid?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381
    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    "Why we remember wars but forget plagues
    Pandemics aren't represented in film or literature because they're too boring, too horrific and too depressing
    By Sean Thomas"

    https://unherd.com/2020/05/why-we-remember-wars-but-forget-plagues/

    Terrific piece by Sean. I pretty-much agree with him. A month or so back my Agent said he was looking forward to first-hand writing on this virus and I thought at the time, 'oh no.' I've just forwarded him Sean's essay.

    I don't think Coronavirus lit will be filling up people's Christmas stockings this year.

    Sean did miss the film Contagion, which is more like a documentary and well worth watching, as well as a host of other virus films:

    https://www.glamour.com/gallery/best-virus-movies

    @eadric should be pretty annoyed that @SeanT has plagiarised his idea...
    Coincidentally, SeanT. was posting pictures during lockdown (on a different platform) of Cosmeston Lakes, whilst Eadric would describe on here his daily walks around Penarth. I wonder whether their paths ever crossed?
    Ten people, all the product of one author’s imagination, telling ten different stories, all holed up together in the same country retreat.

    And then there’s Boccaccio’s Decameron.
    My first thought in reading your post was I would rather be in Florence than the Vale of Glamorgan during lockdown. Then I recalled Northern Italy was like a war zone only a few weeks ago
    A long way from Florence, though. Most of Italy was less affected than most of the UK.
    Don't forget in the Johnsonian period you can only compare positive UK data to overseas data. Negative UK data means you are comparing incompatible data.
  • BantermanBanterman Posts: 287

    Scott_xP said:

    alex_ said:

    unless you genuinely believe that the travel to Durham was for any other reason than concern for how he and his wife would cope with their child if they both became seriously ill

    Everything else he said was bullshit. There is no reason to believe that bit either.

    I note that his wife's article about their illness has been referred

    https://twitter.com/mediaguardian/status/1265886406980722689
    Is she not allowed to use 'poetic licence'? I mean it's not as if she were presenting a witness statement.

    Her husband on the other hand....
    One suspects that if the UK went all communist style authoritarian government, Guardian readers would be the first to sign up as Stasi informers on their fellow citizens.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    fox327 said:

    "What’s probably more concerning is the risks we haven’t thought of yet. If you had asked people in 1900 what the greatest risks to civilisation were, they probably wouldn’t have suggested nuclear weapons, genetic engineering or artificial intelligence, since none of these were yet invented. It’s possible we’re in the same situation looking forward to the next century. Future “unknown unknowns” might pose a greater risk than the risks we know today.

    Each time we discover a new technology, it’s a little like betting against a single number on a roulette wheel. Most of the time we win, and the technology is overall good. But each time there’s also a small chance the technology gives us more destructive power than we can handle, and we lose everything."

    I saw this on https://80000hours.org/articles/extinction-risk/, which was quoted on a maths blog. I am a little worried about permanent lockdown because no species on Earth has ever done this before, which is still around.

    If you are interested in the future of the human species and the threats to our current notion of humankind then there is no finer or more relevant author around than Yuvel Noah Harari.

    The combination of changes in computing power/AI and our increased understanding of our own internal biomechanics/biochemistry make the end of humankind (or its dominance/relevance) in the next 100 years, far more than a small chance.
    The human species going extinct will happen eventually. Some figure like 99.9% of all species have gone extinct and a species gets a run of about 10 million years on average so we probably have time for a cuppa or two...
    No species able to contemplate the possibility of its own extinction has ever gone extinct. Nor has any species which had invented the iPhone, or pringles. That statistic tells us nothing of any use at all.
    What we currently consider humans may go extinct very rapidly indeed. We might nuke ourselves out of existence but it must be at least as likely that we’ll upgrade ourselves out of existence.
    Sure, if we hang on for long enough (possibly as little as another century) we should be able to upload our personalities into von Neumann probes and head out into space. Leaving earth as a sort of sink estate for the remaining meat people.
    Reminds me of the Caves of Steel series, probably Asimov's best.
  • SockySocky Posts: 404

    How do you know? Prove that there was not an (say) intelligent dinosaur species that understood evolution.

    No dino-plastic...
  • BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 1,884
    Scott_xP said:

    alex_ said:

    unless you genuinely believe that the travel to Durham was for any other reason than concern for how he and his wife would cope with their child if they both became seriously ill

    Everything else he said was bullshit. There is no reason to believe that bit either.

    I note that his wife's article about their illness has been referred

    https://twitter.com/mediaguardian/status/1265886406980722689
    do you think this might be vexatious? maybe?

    I mean

    "On Wednesday, a spokesperson for Ipso, the press regulator which covers the Spectator, told the Guardian it had received two complaints from members of the public about potential factual inaccuracies in the 1,000-word column by Wakefield"

    ...
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    What appears to be a very accurate and sensitive antibody test for saliva samples. It’s based on a widely used commercial assay technology (Luminex), so ought to be rapidly scaleable.

    COVID-19 serology at population scale: SARS-CoV-2-specific antibody responses in saliva
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.24.20112300v1.full.pdf

    It would be good to know how widespread this thing actually is.

    Meanwhile in other news, a friend who stayed away from his dying mother (because its COVID right?) is going to the funeral today. His opinion of Cummings is unprintable...
    Also from my mother on the phone last night: she has a list of other old people she calls up. Apparently Dominic Cummings is the first subject they all raise and they’re all furious (her word).
    I’ve passed on from furious to contempt.
    Its nothing to do with the journey.. or if it was its now about get Cummings.. at any price.
    No, not 'at any price'. But why shouldn't people want to get him? One law for him, another for the rest of us. He should be reminded regularly, and so should Boris.

    It didn't have to be that way.
    The left and the remainers would do ANYTHING to get Cummings. Look at the dissembling by the Guardian for starters. Franky its been pretty unedifying. I think Cummings should go but the disgusting shrieking from left provokes me into hoping he will survive.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    alex_ said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    alex_ said:

    unless you genuinely believe that the travel to Durham was for any other reason than concern for how he and his wife would cope with their child if they both became seriously ill

    Everything else he said was bullshit. There is no reason to believe that bit either.

    I note that his wife's article about their illness has been referred

    https://twitter.com/mediaguardian/status/1265886406980722689
    Is she not allowed to use 'poetic licence'? I mean it's not as if she were presenting a witness statement.

    Her husband on the other hand....
    A diary of life in the London lockdown from someone who had fled hundreds of miles away at the first sign of trouble. Who would think of doing such a thing?
    There was an episode of Foyle’s war involving this.
    I see the Guardian is "freewalling" its content...
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,354
    Scott_xP said:

    Cummings may survive in post, but the damage inflicted on Boris is considerable. If anything, Boris's determination to hang on to Cummings shows how weak Boris feels himself to be.

    I have no doubt that the wolves in the Tory Party will be waiting for the next sign of weakness to finish off the hapless Boris.

    The Brexiteers wanted Cummings gone because he scorned them.

    They have succeeded instead in torching their hero

    Heart of stone, etc...
    It was always likely Boris would be exposed once in office, much as he was in the largely ceremonial role of London Mayor. Didn't expect it to happen as quickly and dramatically as this though.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002

    I wonder if Scott truly believes that the UK has had the most excess deaths in the world, or maybe we have a world leading statistics collecting organisation called the ONS and other countries don't.

    LOL

    "The ONS says we have the highest excess deaths."

    "That can't be true, because other countries don't have the ONS..."

    It's too early in the day to be that drunk.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    Scott_xP said:

    alex_ said:

    unless you genuinely believe that the travel to Durham was for any other reason than concern for how he and his wife would cope with their child if they both became seriously ill

    Everything else he said was bullshit. There is no reason to believe that bit either.

    I note that his wife's article about their illness has been referred

    https://twitter.com/mediaguardian/status/1265886406980722689
    Is she not allowed to use 'poetic licence'? I mean it's not as if she were presenting a witness statement.

    Her husband on the other hand....
    And an interesting factoid at the end of that article that the now Mrs Cummings has written an "award winning" article describing her drive across Texas.

    Which ought to have made driving her potentially frail husband back to London a walk in the park. So to speak.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,381

    Scott_xP said:

    eek said:

    Note - in reality this is partly because we are faster at recording this information than other countries. But let's not let facts get in the way of the story.

    Ooops

    https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1265891476241866753
    I wonder if Scott truly believes that the UK has had the most excess deaths in the world, or maybe we have a world leading statistics collecting organisation called the ONS and other countries don't.
    Neither statement is true.
  • SockySocky Posts: 404
    DavidL said:

    The logistics of this may well be beyond the NHS. But he is right that this is exactly what is required.

    The risk for Sir K. is that one of his "forensic" little digs explode all over the NHS/PHE.

    That might give Boris the cover to carry out some radical reforms.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002
    nichomar said:

    Now it’s the NHS telling people to quarantine not the government, do they think people are stupid?

    Of course they do.

    All of their experience suggests we are.

    They got us to vote for £350m a week for the NHS, which was stupid.

    They got us to vote for Get Brexit Done, which was stupid.

    Why wouldn't we fall for their latest line in bullshit?
  • SockySocky Posts: 404
    Andy_JS said:

    "Why we remember wars but forget plagues Pandemics aren't represented in film or literature because they're too boring, too horrific and too depressing
    By Sean Thomas"

    https://unherd.com/2020/05/why-we-remember-wars-but-forget-plagues/

    He's quite good at this writing lark isn't he.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,354
    alex_ said:

    Re: Cummings. Whilst I get that people are very angry I still doubt that most have really more than a peripheral knowledge of the story, beyond the facts that he had (or suspected he had coronavirus), that he travelled to isolate with his parents rather than stay at home, and made some sort of trip to Barnard castle.

    However, unless you genuinely believe that the travel to Durham was for any other reason than concern for how he and his wife would cope with their child if they both became seriously ill, then most of the cases of people complaining that they followed the rules when he didn’t are probably actually probably not directly comparable.

    Interestingly I recall somebody in this site WAS in a very similar situation and was out of their mind with how they would cope (whether they theoretically had such a parental “option” I don’t know).

    I've actually been surprised how much people have followed the saga and understood it. Maybe it's because there's no sport on and people are listening to the news more.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,805
    Mr. xP, and yet you still go on about the anti-EU slogan. Can you remember what the pro-EU campaign was?
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    DougSeal said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    What appears to be a very accurate and sensitive antibody test for saliva samples. It’s based on a widely used commercial assay technology (Luminex), so ought to be rapidly scaleable.

    COVID-19 serology at population scale: SARS-CoV-2-specific antibody responses in saliva
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.24.20112300v1.full.pdf

    It would be good to know how widespread this thing actually is.

    Meanwhile in other news, a friend who stayed away from his dying mother (because its COVID right?) is going to the funeral today. His opinion of Cummings is unprintable...
    Also from my mother on the phone last night: she has a list of other old people she calls up. Apparently Dominic Cummings is the first subject they all raise and they’re all furious (her word).
    I’ve passed on from furious to contempt.
    I feel sorry for him. Imagine living with no moral compass. Sad!
    Surely if he lacks a moral compass, he will not be bothered? ;)
    It’s good for anti-Tories for this to die down for a while to prevent burnout. There will be an Episode 2. He’ll do something newsworthy (doesn’t even have to be anything negative) to allow people to be reminded he has a strong influence on their lives. And the resentment will be stoked.
    Just a small point - this govt are not Tories. I have voted Tory in the past, but that was for a party that was business friendly, fiscally prudent and unionist. The current rabble meet none of those criteria.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729
    Scott_xP said:

    nichomar said:

    Now it’s the NHS telling people to quarantine not the government, do they think people are stupid?

    Of course they do.

    All of their experience suggests we are.

    They got us to vote for £350m a week for the NHS, which was stupid.

    They got us to vote for Get Brexit Done, which was stupid.

    Why wouldn't we fall for their latest line in bullshit?
    Listen mate you lost fair and square. The votes told you that... Get over it. I have. I voted remain.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405
    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    alex_ said:

    unless you genuinely believe that the travel to Durham was for any other reason than concern for how he and his wife would cope with their child if they both became seriously ill

    Everything else he said was bullshit. There is no reason to believe that bit either.

    I note that his wife's article about their illness has been referred

    https://twitter.com/mediaguardian/status/1265886406980722689
    Is she not allowed to use 'poetic licence'? I mean it's not as if she were presenting a witness statement.

    Her husband on the other hand....
    A diary of life in the London lockdown from someone who had fled hundreds of miles away at the first sign of trouble. Who would think of doing such a thing?
    For a minute there I thought you were talking about Eadric / SeanT
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,002

    Mr. xP, and yet you still go on about the anti-EU slogan. Can you remember what the pro-EU campaign was?

    The slogan was memorable. And stupid.
This discussion has been closed.