unless you genuinely believe that the travel to Durham was for any other reason than concern for how he and his wife would cope with their child if they both became seriously ill
Everything else he said was bullshit. There is no reason to believe that bit either.
I note that his wife's article about their illness has been referred
How does the government propose to police such self-isolations? Or is it putting up new arrivals in the Heathrow Hilton?
Get off the plane at Heathrow. Onto Heathrow Express. A bus. Then a train. And a taxi home. Then you have to self isolated to make sure you only drive to Barnard Castle as a test to see if you have the pox or not.
In other countries you are escorted from the plane and essentially locked up in a quarantine hotel room. In the UK, "quarantine" is designed to shut up Farage and sound tough to Brexiteers rather than have a function as actual quarantine.
What is crystal clear is that for whatever reasons, and incompetence and ineptitude certainly play their part, the R number for the next few months is going to be hovering at or slightly above 1. Anything that helps control it needs careful consideration and international travellers are an obvious potential source of risk. Again there are economic consequences from further disrupting international travel but I do not think that this is a risk that we can take. But then I have thought this since February.
Same here - I've criticised repeatedly the UK government having Taken Back Control of our borders choosing to leave them wide open. My problem with the scheme announced though is that its bollocks. Quarantine is off the plane here's your hotel room see you in two weeks. Not make your own way home try not to infect anyone on the way, please confirm you are at home and not going out though we won't be enforcing it.
Re: Cummings. Whilst I get that people are very angry I still doubt that most have really more than a peripheral knowledge of the story, beyond the facts that he had (or suspected he had coronavirus), that he travelled to isolate with his parents rather than stay at home, and made some sort of trip to Barnard castle.
However, unless you genuinely believe that the travel to Durham was for any other reason than concern for how he and his wife would cope with their child if they both became seriously ill, then most of the cases of people complaining that they followed the rules when he didn’t are probably actually probably not directly comparable.
Interestingly I recall somebody in this site WAS in a very similar situation and was out of their mind with how they would cope (whether they theoretically had such a parental “option” I don’t know).
I've actually been surprised how much people have followed the saga and understood it. Maybe it's because there's no sport on and people are listening to the news more.
Without the Guardian and Mirror spinning the story as hard as they could then adding in blatant lies regarding second visits, which the anti Boris broadcasters all amplified, the Cummings story would have had the same impact as the Kinnocks doing the birthday visit, ie hardly any.
Maitlis is just the cherry on top of the media cake of shame.
What appears to be a very accurate and sensitive antibody test for saliva samples. It’s based on a widely used commercial assay technology (Luminex), so ought to be rapidly scaleable.
It would be good to know how widespread this thing actually is.
Meanwhile in other news, a friend who stayed away from his dying mother (because its COVID right?) is going to the funeral today. His opinion of Cummings is unprintable...
Also from my mother on the phone last night: she has a list of other old people she calls up. Apparently Dominic Cummings is the first subject they all raise and they’re all furious (her word).
I’ve passed on from furious to contempt.
Its nothing to do with the journey.. or if it was its now about get Cummings.. at any price.
No, not 'at any price'. But why shouldn't people want to get him? One law for him, another for the rest of us. He should be reminded regularly, and so should Boris.
It didn't have to be that way.
The left and the remainers would do ANYTHING to get Cummings. Look at the dissembling by the Guardian for starters. Franky its been pretty unedifying. I think Cummings should go but the disgusting shrieking from left provokes me into hoping he will survive.
It is very easy to fall into that temptation and I have on occasions.
But the real issue is this. In the next 3-4 months the government is going to have to spend tens of billions of our money bailing out those industries that it thinks need to survive and which have a viable future going forward. Who is going to pick these winners? Sunak will certainly have an important role. Boris is the nominal decision maker but he is plainly still unwell and operating far below his normal capacity (about which, in any event, we could argue all day). Would we want someone with Cummings' skill set informing those decisions? If the answer is yes then he should stay because we need him. And, whatever you think of his morality, his honesty, his selfishness, his arrogance, his apparent sociopathic blindness, I think that the answer is yes.
A combined age of 147 years ... I don't think the American electorate will be too keen on such a proposition. I can't help but think the Democratic ticket will look a whole lot more attractive with either 55 year-old Kamala Harris or Amy Klobuchar aged 60 on board ... my money wold be on the latter.
Hi PfP. All well?
Agree with your reasoning but not AK, who presents a bit of a problem for black voters. If I had to guess, I'd say KH but wouldn't bet at the odds.
Stay well. Keep washing those paws!
PtP
Yes, I'm fine thanks PTP, hoping to stay safe here in Yorkshire. I trust you're OK too and I noticed that you've also moved out of the Big Smoke.
Absolutely fine thank you, PfP.
Yes, I'm a Gloucestershire man now, although I still have some work to do on the accent.
unless you genuinely believe that the travel to Durham was for any other reason than concern for how he and his wife would cope with their child if they both became seriously ill
Everything else he said was bullshit. There is no reason to believe that bit either.
I note that his wife's article about their illness has been referred
Is she not allowed to use 'poetic licence'? I mean it's not as if she were presenting a witness statement.
Her husband on the other hand....
One suspects that if the UK went all communist style authoritarian government, Guardian readers would be the first to sign up as Stasi informers on their fellow citizens.
unless you genuinely believe that the travel to Durham was for any other reason than concern for how he and his wife would cope with their child if they both became seriously ill
Everything else he said was bullshit. There is no reason to believe that bit either.
I note that his wife's article about their illness has been referred
Is she not allowed to use 'poetic licence'? I mean it's not as if she were presenting a witness statement.
Her husband on the other hand....
A diary of life in the London lockdown from someone who had fled hundreds of miles away at the first sign of trouble. Who would think of doing such a thing?
For a minute there I thought you were talking about Eadric / SeanT
Mr. xP, you may think the slogan was a falsehood. The stupid part was pro-EU types having neither a rebuttal nor an alternative and spending their time promoting their opponents' slogan.
The campaign to leave was dreadful. Yet the campaign to remain even worse.
Anyway, unless Conservative backbenchers use the threat of extension to try and force out Cummings/Johnson, that seems to be in the past.
unless you genuinely believe that the travel to Durham was for any other reason than concern for how he and his wife would cope with their child if they both became seriously ill
Everything else he said was bullshit. There is no reason to believe that bit either.
I note that his wife's article about their illness has been referred
Is she not allowed to use 'poetic licence'? I mean it's not as if she were presenting a witness statement.
Her husband on the other hand....
A diary of life in the London lockdown from someone who had fled hundreds of miles away at the first sign of trouble. Who would think of doing such a thing?
For a minute there I thought you were talking about Eadric / SeanT
Don't you mead Eadric AND SeanT?
Mean nor mead, although I guess it could have a relevance.
Re: Cummings. Whilst I get that people are very angry I still doubt that most have really more than a peripheral knowledge of the story, beyond the facts that he had (or suspected he had coronavirus), that he travelled to isolate with his parents rather than stay at home, and made some sort of trip to Barnard castle.
However, unless you genuinely believe that the travel to Durham was for any other reason than concern for how he and his wife would cope with their child if they both became seriously ill, then most of the cases of people complaining that they followed the rules when he didn’t are probably actually probably not directly comparable.
Interestingly I recall somebody in this site WAS in a very similar situation and was out of their mind with how they would cope (whether they theoretically had such a parental “option” I don’t know).
I've actually been surprised how much people have followed the saga and understood it. Maybe it's because there's no sport on and people are listening to the news more.
Without the Guardian and Mirror spinning the story as hard as they could then adding in blatant lies regarding second visits, which the anti Boris broadcasters all amplified, the Cummings story would have had the same impact as the Kinnocks doing the birthday visit, ie hardly any.
Maitlis is just the cherry on top of the media cake of shame.
Kinnock didn't lie (indeed, his excessive honesty was his downfall) and broke lockdown, not quarantine. What is hard to understand about that?
What appears to be a very accurate and sensitive antibody test for saliva samples. It’s based on a widely used commercial assay technology (Luminex), so ought to be rapidly scaleable.
It would be good to know how widespread this thing actually is.
Meanwhile in other news, a friend who stayed away from his dying mother (because its COVID right?) is going to the funeral today. His opinion of Cummings is unprintable...
Also from my mother on the phone last night: she has a list of other old people she calls up. Apparently Dominic Cummings is the first subject they all raise and they’re all furious (her word).
I’ve passed on from furious to contempt.
I feel sorry for him. Imagine living with no moral compass. Sad!
Surely if he lacks a moral compass, he will not be bothered?
Re: Cummings. Whilst I get that people are very angry I still doubt that most have really more than a peripheral knowledge of the story, beyond the facts that he had (or suspected he had coronavirus), that he travelled to isolate with his parents rather than stay at home, and made some sort of trip to Barnard castle.
However, unless you genuinely believe that the travel to Durham was for any other reason than concern for how he and his wife would cope with their child if they both became seriously ill, then most of the cases of people complaining that they followed the rules when he didn’t are probably actually probably not directly comparable.
Interestingly I recall somebody in this site WAS in a very similar situation and was out of their mind with how they would cope (whether they theoretically had such a parental “option” I don’t know).
I've actually been surprised how much people have followed the saga and understood it. Maybe it's because there's no sport on and people are listening to the news more.
Without the Guardian and Mirror spinning the story as hard as they could then adding in blatant lies regarding second visits, which the anti Boris broadcasters all amplified, the Cummings story would have had the same impact as the Kinnocks doing the birthday visit, ie hardly any.
Maitlis is just the cherry on top of the media cake of shame.
Laughable. How many people read those papers, or take notice of them? Few if any of those I have spoken to.
Mr. xP, you may think the slogan was a falsehood. The stupid part was pro-EU types having neither a rebuttal nor an alternative and spending their time promoting their opponents' slogan.
The campaign to leave was dreadful. Yet the campaign to remain even worse.
Indeed, but that is the not the point
Cummings and BoZo told a blatant lie, repeatedly, endlessly, continuously, and it worked.
Given that experience, why wouldn't they expect it work, over and over again?
How does the government propose to police such self-isolations? Or is it putting up new arrivals in the Heathrow Hilton?
Get off the plane at Heathrow. Onto Heathrow Express. A bus. Then a train. And a taxi home. Then you have to self isolated to make sure you only drive to Barnard Castle as a test to see if you have the pox or not.
In other countries you are escorted from the plane and essentially locked up in a quarantine hotel room. In the UK, "quarantine" is designed to shut up Farage and sound tough to Brexiteers rather than have a function as actual quarantine.
What is crystal clear is that for whatever reasons, and incompetence and ineptitude certainly play their part, the R number for the next few months is going to be hovering at or slightly above 1. Anything that helps control it needs careful consideration and international travellers are an obvious potential source of risk. Again there are economic consequences from further disrupting international travel but I do not think that this is a risk that we can take. But then I have thought this since February.
Same here - I've criticised repeatedly the UK government having Taken Back Control of our borders choosing to leave them wide open. My problem with the scheme announced though is that its bollocks. Quarantine is off the plane here's your hotel room see you in two weeks. Not make your own way home try not to infect anyone on the way, please confirm you are at home and not going out though we won't be enforcing it.
Oh I agree what is proposed is little short of ridiculous. The Guardian article linked to downthread indicates that 80% of infections are caused by 10% of the infected, the super spreaders. If we "burn out" our super spreaders by having them catching the disease and then becoming immune this will be very important in controlling the R number. What we absolutely do not need is new potential super spreaders coming from outside the herd and then using public transport on their way to their hotel room.
"Why we remember wars but forget plagues Pandemics aren't represented in film or literature because they're too boring, too horrific and too depressing By Sean Thomas"
Re: Cummings. Whilst I get that people are very angry I still doubt that most have really more than a peripheral knowledge of the story, beyond the facts that he had (or suspected he had coronavirus), that he travelled to isolate with his parents rather than stay at home, and made some sort of trip to Barnard castle.
However, unless you genuinely believe that the travel to Durham was for any other reason than concern for how he and his wife would cope with their child if they both became seriously ill, then most of the cases of people complaining that they followed the rules when he didn’t are probably actually probably not directly comparable.
Interestingly I recall somebody in this site WAS in a very similar situation and was out of their mind with how they would cope (whether they theoretically had such a parental “option” I don’t know).
I've actually been surprised how much people have followed the saga and understood it. Maybe it's because there's no sport on and people are listening to the news more.
Without the Guardian and Mirror spinning the story as hard as they could then adding in blatant lies regarding second visits, which the anti Boris broadcasters all amplified, the Cummings story would have had the same impact as the Kinnocks doing the birthday visit, ie hardly any.
Maitlis is just the cherry on top of the media cake of shame.
As I said yesterday driving to Durham is now worse than murdering children. Never has there been so much press interest in and some much written about the Journey of a car from London to Durham.
You would want the VP candidate to be fronting the campaign. She's going to be acting President at some point in the next 4 years under the 25th Amendment....
If the trading benefits exceeded the cost (gross or net) then it would've been the most obvious thing in the world to highlight that.
Instead pro-EU types said it 'only' cost us £250m a week, or thereabouts, when taking a break from lambasting it's opponents as ignorant Little Englanders or trying to frighten people with portents of doom.
"We're Better Off In" focusing on economic advantages, and highlighting political victories, seems like another natural way to go.
What appears to be a very accurate and sensitive antibody test for saliva samples. It’s based on a widely used commercial assay technology (Luminex), so ought to be rapidly scaleable.
It would be good to know how widespread this thing actually is.
Meanwhile in other news, a friend who stayed away from his dying mother (because its COVID right?) is going to the funeral today. His opinion of Cummings is unprintable...
Also from my mother on the phone last night: she has a list of other old people she calls up. Apparently Dominic Cummings is the first subject they all raise and they’re all furious (her word).
I’ve passed on from furious to contempt.
Its nothing to do with the journey.. or if it was its now about get Cummings.. at any price.
No, not 'at any price'. But why shouldn't people want to get him? One law for him, another for the rest of us. He should be reminded regularly, and so should Boris.
It didn't have to be that way.
The left and the remainers would do ANYTHING to get Cummings. Look at the dissembling by the Guardian for starters. Franky its been pretty unedifying. I think Cummings should go but the disgusting shrieking from left provokes me into hoping he will survive.
It is very easy to fall into that temptation and I have on occasions.
But the real issue is this. In the next 3-4 months the government is going to have to spend tens of billions of our money bailing out those industries that it thinks need to survive and which have a viable future going forward. Who is going to pick these winners? Sunak will certainly have an important role. Boris is the nominal decision maker but he is plainly still unwell and operating far below his normal capacity (about which, in any event, we could argue all day). Would we want someone with Cummings' skill set informing those decisions? If the answer is yes then he should stay because we need him. And, whatever you think of his morality, his honesty, his selfishness, his arrogance, his apparent sociopathic blindness, I think that the answer is yes.
What is Cummings's skill set? He ran the fundamentally dishonest and economically illiterate Leave campaign. He schmoozes with the trans-Atlantic billionaire donor class and acts as a shill for their interests. He fires people without due process. He writes ludicrous rambling blog posts that reek of schoolboy insecurities, self hatred and a borderline personality disorder. As far as I know he has only ever said two sensible things in his entire life: that David Davis is a lazy bastard and that defence procurement is riddled with corruption, neither of which require a towering intellect to have figured out. I feel sure that good government can operate in his absence.
What is crystal clear is that for whatever reasons, and incompetence and ineptitude certainly play their part, the R number for the next few months is going to be hovering at or slightly above 1. Anything that helps control it needs careful consideration and international travellers are an obvious potential source of risk. Again there are economic consequences from further disrupting international travel but I do not think that this is a risk that we can take. But then I have thought this since February.
But the real issue is this. In the next 3-4 months the government is going to have to spend tens of billions of our money bailing out those industries that it thinks need to survive and which have a viable future going forward. Who is going to pick these winners? Sunak will certainly have an important role. Boris is the nominal decision maker but he is plainly still unwell and operating far below his normal capacity (about which, in any event, we could argue all day). Would we want someone with Cummings' skill set informing those decisions? If the answer is yes then he should stay because we need him. And, whatever you think of his morality, his honesty, his selfishness, his arrogance, his apparent sociopathic blindness, I think that the answer is yes.
Surely the answer is "no" unless you subscribe to Cummings's purported mission to reshape the UK to a society he approves of?
Re: Cummings. Whilst I get that people are very angry I still doubt that most have really more than a peripheral knowledge of the story, beyond the facts that he had (or suspected he had coronavirus), that he travelled to isolate with his parents rather than stay at home, and made some sort of trip to Barnard castle.
However, unless you genuinely believe that the travel to Durham was for any other reason than concern for how he and his wife would cope with their child if they both became seriously ill, then most of the cases of people complaining that they followed the rules when he didn’t are probably actually probably not directly comparable.
Interestingly I recall somebody in this site WAS in a very similar situation and was out of their mind with how they would cope (whether they theoretically had such a parental “option” I don’t know).
I've actually been surprised how much people have followed the saga and understood it. Maybe it's because there's no sport on and people are listening to the news more.
Without the Guardian and Mirror spinning the story as hard as they could then adding in blatant lies regarding second visits, which the anti Boris broadcasters all amplified, the Cummings story would have had the same impact as the Kinnocks doing the birthday visit, ie hardly any.
Maitlis is just the cherry on top of the media cake of shame.
Kinnock didn't lie (indeed, his excessive honesty was his downfall) and broke lockdown, not quarantine. What is hard to understand about that?
If you analyse the Kinnock's pictures, sitting on deckchairs 10 metres from Neil and Glenys, loathsome though the Kinnock's undoubtedly are, it wasn't remotely like a breach of anything. Although they were in London and presumably had been there throughout, they were 'busted' by some bored clever dick working for South Wales Police. The Kinnock issue has been blown out of all proportion by pro-Cummings scribes. In his constituency too he is being tarred with the same brush as Cummings by people who have seen the headline not the evidence, i.e. one rule for us, a different rule for them. If anything bears comparison to the Cummings case, it is Jenrick getting away scot-free with his little excursions.
My point is not meant to be partisan as I do have a huge concern over Tahir Ali attending a funeral during lockdown.
Would we want someone with Cummings' skill set informing those decisions? If the answer is yes then he should stay because we need him. And, whatever you think of his morality, his honesty, his selfishness, his arrogance, his apparent sociopathic blindness, I think that the answer is yes.
I am reminded of Churchill's many personal flaws. Sometimes the only thing that matters is the bigger picture.
How does the government propose to police such self-isolations? Or is it putting up new arrivals in the Heathrow Hilton?
Get off the plane at Heathrow. Onto Heathrow Express. A bus. Then a train. And a taxi home. Then you have to self isolated to make sure you only drive to Barnard Castle as a test to see if you have the pox or not.
In other countries you are escorted from the plane and essentially locked up in a quarantine hotel room. In the UK, "quarantine" is designed to shut up Farage and sound tough to Brexiteers rather than have a function as actual quarantine.
What is crystal clear is that for whatever reasons, and incompetence and ineptitude certainly play their part, the R number for the next few months is going to be hovering at or slightly above 1. Anything that helps control it needs careful consideration and international travellers are an obvious potential source of risk. Again there are economic consequences from further disrupting international travel but I do not think that this is a risk that we can take. But then I have thought this since February.
Same here - I've criticised repeatedly the UK government having Taken Back Control of our borders choosing to leave them wide open. My problem with the scheme announced though is that its bollocks. Quarantine is off the plane here's your hotel room see you in two weeks. Not make your own way home try not to infect anyone on the way, please confirm you are at home and not going out though we won't be enforcing it.
Oh I agree what is proposed is little short of ridiculous. The Guardian article linked to downthread indicates that 80% of infections are caused by 10% of the infected, the super spreaders. If we "burn out" our super spreaders by having them catching the disease and then becoming immune this will be very important in controlling the R number. What we absolutely do not need is new potential super spreaders coming from outside the herd and then using public transport on their way to their hotel room.
Anyway, our own cross Europe trip to see our Spanish inlaws is now scrubbed. Whether or not UK France and Spain allow people in and out unhindered by mid August or not I have no faith that they won't reimpose it as our R rate soars again as it clearly will. Would quite a like a trip to Scotland to see my brother and his family but at the moment leisure travel north of the border is a long way down the list of things your government will permit - which I don't blame them for.
Ah well. How long til Christmas? Lets just skip through the rest of this year
What appears to be a very accurate and sensitive antibody test for saliva samples. It’s based on a widely used commercial assay technology (Luminex), so ought to be rapidly scaleable.
It would be good to know how widespread this thing actually is.
Meanwhile in other news, a friend who stayed away from his dying mother (because its COVID right?) is going to the funeral today. His opinion of Cummings is unprintable...
Also from my mother on the phone last night: she has a list of other old people she calls up. Apparently Dominic Cummings is the first subject they all raise and they’re all furious (her word).
I’ve passed on from furious to contempt.
Its nothing to do with the journey.. or if it was its now about get Cummings.. at any price.
No, not 'at any price'. But why shouldn't people want to get him? One law for him, another for the rest of us. He should be reminded regularly, and so should Boris.
It didn't have to be that way.
The left and the remainers would do ANYTHING to get Cummings. Look at the dissembling by the Guardian for starters. Franky its been pretty unedifying. I think Cummings should go but the disgusting shrieking from left provokes me into hoping he will survive.
It is very easy to fall into that temptation and I have on occasions.
But the real issue is this. In the next 3-4 months the government is going to have to spend tens of billions of our money bailing out those industries that it thinks need to survive and which have a viable future going forward. Who is going to pick these winners? Sunak will certainly have an important role. Boris is the nominal decision maker but he is plainly still unwell and operating far below his normal capacity (about which, in any event, we could argue all day). Would we want someone with Cummings' skill set informing those decisions? If the answer is yes then he should stay because we need him. And, whatever you think of his morality, his honesty, his selfishness, his arrogance, his apparent sociopathic blindness, I think that the answer is yes.
What is Cummings's skill set? He ran the fundamentally dishonest and economically illiterate Leave campaign. He schmoozes with the trans-Atlantic billionaire donor class and acts as a shill for their interests. He fires people without due process. He writes ludicrous rambling blog posts that reek of schoolboy insecurities, self hatred and a borderline personality disorder. As far as I know he has only ever said two sensible things in his entire life: that David Davis is a lazy bastard and that defence procurement is riddled with corruption, neither of which require a towering intellect to have figured out. I feel sure that good government can operate in his absence.
Absolutely. I used to think he was a talented liar. Now I just think he is a liar. If he brings anything to government that the Cabinet doesn't already have, that is a reflection on the Cabinet.
Would we want someone with Cummings' skill set informing those decisions? If the answer is yes then he should stay because we need him. And, whatever you think of his morality, his honesty, his selfishness, his arrogance, his apparent sociopathic blindness, I think that the answer is yes.
I am reminded of Churchill's many personal flaws. Sometimes the only thing that matters is the bigger picture.
But as yet no obvious shift in the small lead that Biden has, which may suggest a large "Don't like Trump but not sure Biden is any good" voter cohort. A good VP candidate might shift that as Pence is already priced in. Warren seems too obvious to me (fails the "interesting surprise" test), and too radical for the mainstream while too much of a wrecker to be forgiven by Bernie fans. Harris still looks a fair shot.
Cummings should just resign but seems he could not care less
Boris was bumbling and hopeless in front of the liason committee and conservative mps need to take back control from both of them, but when and how long it will take is anyone's guess
However, I want to speak out against the media and others, including obsessives on this site who actively want a narrative that no one will follow the NHS instructions because of Cummings behaviour, in a vain attempt to bring him and Boris down
It is not just coincidence that the vast amount of continuing attacks come from devoted remainers who know that once the 1st July passes the EU will either have to do a deal or it will be no deal. It is astonishing that Barnier should openly write to the dissenters offering upto two years, subject to payment no doubt of one billion a month, extension to transition
The widescale condemnation of Cummings is wholly justified but the public are scared enough that they will follow advice,and those who are using Cummings to undermine the message in a pandemic for political purposes is just not acceptable
Starmer has called this right by his low key intervention and it is time for the media to grow up and accept their responsibility to promote observation of the rules rather than mocking them
Dem VP. I think Biden will go for Harris. The big win in November is going to come from anti-Trump sentiment. So the strategy is stay as vanilla as possible. Do NOT put anybody off. Trump is unelectable. Just let that do its work. Do not get in the way of it. Harris is suitable for this.
"Why we remember wars but forget plagues Pandemics aren't represented in film or literature because they're too boring, too horrific and too depressing By Sean Thomas"
One of the things that have surprised me in recent times was that Hong Kong flu killed 80k in 1969/70. I was out of the country at the time but my wife who was in Oban no memory of it. We have checked with others in their childhood and early adulthood at the time and they are all the same. No one remembers it.
We have speculated that this is because it did not swamp the media of the time in the way CV has today. Life seems to have gone on as normal, football continued to be played with crowds on the old packed terraces, people still went to work. Was a generation just out of the shadow of the war simply more sanguine about the vicissitudes of life? Did people not even know until after the event how calamitous it had been? Its a bit of a mystery.
Laughable. How many people read those papers, or take notice of them? Few if any of those I have spoken to.
Ms Maitless works for the state broadcaster.
If yesterday's News at Ten was anything to go by, she works for the state run broadcaster.
The edit during Laura's piece made Boris' performance in the afternoon look like he fully grasped all the issues and was running a well-oiled machine. I had seen the car crash in all its glory, Johnson, when I watched it in the afternoon, demonstrated he neither grasped the issues nor ran a well-oiled machine
If the trading benefits exceeded the cost (gross or net) then it would've been the most obvious thing in the world to highlight that.
Instead pro-EU types said it 'only' cost us £250m a week, or thereabouts, when taking a break from lambasting it's opponents as ignorant Little Englanders or trying to frighten people with portents of doom.
"We're Better Off In" focusing on economic advantages, and highlighting political victories, seems like another natural way to go.
But there we are.
FFS Mr D, don't set him off again, he's still bitching at the repeal of the Corn Laws
"Why we remember wars but forget plagues Pandemics aren't represented in film or literature because they're too boring, too horrific and too depressing By Sean Thomas"
It is a weird skill. He doesn't use any words I don't know and although I agree with his argument here, he isn't always the most logical, but he can do with words what I can not imagine doing. And even when he isn't the most logical he still does it with panache.
"Why we remember wars but forget plagues Pandemics aren't represented in film or literature because they're too boring, too horrific and too depressing By Sean Thomas"
Cummings should just resign but seems he could not care less
Boris was bumbling and hopeless in front of the liason committee and conservative mps need to take back control from both of them, but when and how long it will take is anyone's guess
However, I want to speak out against the media and others, including obsessives on this site who actively want a narrative that no one will follow the NHS instructions because of Cummings behaviour, in a vain attempt to bring him and Boris down
It is not just coincidence that the vast amount of continuing attacks come from devoted remainers who know that once the 1st July passes the EU will either have to do a deal or it will be no deal. It is astonishing that Barnier should openly write to the dissenters offering upto two years, subject to payment no doubt of one billion a month, extension to transition
The widescale condemnation of Cummings is wholly justified but the public are scared enough that they will follow advice,and those who are using Cummings to undermine the message in a pandemic for political purposes is just not acceptable
Starmer has called this right by his low key intervention and it is time for the media to grow up and accept their responsibility to promote observation of the rules rather than mocking them
Journalism is not about gotchas
I dint understand why some Tory posters keep trying to turn the matter back to Brexit, when it is quite obvious that some of the strongest Brexiters themselves are trying the hardest to see Cummings sacked.
What is crystal clear is that for whatever reasons, and incompetence and ineptitude certainly play their part, the R number for the next few months is going to be hovering at or slightly above 1. Anything that helps control it needs careful consideration and international travellers are an obvious potential source of risk. Again there are economic consequences from further disrupting international travel but I do not think that this is a risk that we can take. But then I have thought this since February.
Except that we are left with the mystery as to precisely why rates are falling as they are, and particularly why R in London and New York is now lower than other parts of their respective countries.
Would we want someone with Cummings' skill set informing those decisions? If the answer is yes then he should stay because we need him. And, whatever you think of his morality, his honesty, his selfishness, his arrogance, his apparent sociopathic blindness, I think that the answer is yes.
I am reminded of Churchill's many personal flaws. Sometimes the only thing that matters is the bigger picture.
How's this for the bigger picture: UK has highest rate of excess deaths in the world. And Cummings undermining the public health message will only make that worse.
What appears to be a very accurate and sensitive antibody test for saliva samples. It’s based on a widely used commercial assay technology (Luminex), so ought to be rapidly scaleable.
It would be good to know how widespread this thing actually is.
Meanwhile in other news, a friend who stayed away from his dying mother (because its COVID right?) is going to the funeral today. His opinion of Cummings is unprintable...
Also from my mother on the phone last night: she has a list of other old people she calls up. Apparently Dominic Cummings is the first subject they all raise and they’re all furious (her word).
I’ve passed on from furious to contempt.
Its nothing to do with the journey.. or if it was its now about get Cummings.. at any price.
No, not 'at any price'. But why shouldn't people want to get him? One law for him, another for the rest of us. He should be reminded regularly, and so should Boris.
It didn't have to be that way.
The left and the remainers would do ANYTHING to get Cummings. Look at the dissembling by the Guardian for starters. Franky its been pretty unedifying. I think Cummings should go but the disgusting shrieking from left provokes me into hoping he will survive.
It is very easy to fall into that temptation and I have on occasions.
But the real issue is this. In the next 3-4 months the government is going to have to spend tens of billions of our money bailing out those industries that it thinks need to survive and which have a viable future going forward. Who is going to pick these winners? Sunak will certainly have an important role. Boris is the nominal decision maker but he is plainly still unwell and operating far below his normal capacity (about which, in any event, we could argue all day). Would we want someone with Cummings' skill set informing those decisions? If the answer is yes then he should stay because we need him. And, whatever you think of his morality, his honesty, his selfishness, his arrogance, his apparent sociopathic blindness, I think that the answer is yes.
What is Cummings's skill set? He ran the fundamentally dishonest and economically illiterate Leave campaign. He schmoozes with the trans-Atlantic billionaire donor class and acts as a shill for their interests. He fires people without due process. He writes ludicrous rambling blog posts that reek of schoolboy insecurities, self hatred and a borderline personality disorder. As far as I know he has only ever said two sensible things in his entire life: that David Davis is a lazy bastard and that defence procurement is riddled with corruption, neither of which require a towering intellect to have figured out. I feel sure that good government can operate in his absence.
Well your answer is clearly "no" in which event he should not be there whether he can justify a trip to Durham or not. But this remains the key question: is he actually useful? It is much more important than his flaws.
A combined age of 147 years ... I don't think the American electorate will be too keen on such a proposition. I can't help but think the Democratic ticket will look a whole lot more attractive with either 55 year-old Kamala Harris or Amy Klobuchar aged 60 on board ... my money wold be on the latter.
Hi PfP. All well?
Agree with your reasoning but not AK, who presents a bit of a problem for black voters. If I had to guess, I'd say KH but wouldn't bet at the odds.
Stay well. Keep washing those paws!
PtP
Am I the only poster who thought PfP and PtP were the same? Apologies, now youve posted next to each other I shall remember you are each your own person!
They were once known as "The Twin Towers of Political Betting".
A combined age of 147 years ... I don't think the American electorate will be too keen on such a proposition. I can't help but think the Democratic ticket will look a whole lot more attractive with either 55 year-old Kamala Harris or Amy Klobuchar aged 60 on board ... my money wold be on the latter.
Hi PfP. All well?
Agree with your reasoning but not AK, who presents a bit of a problem for black voters. If I had to guess, I'd say KH but wouldn't bet at the odds.
Stay well. Keep washing those paws!
PtP
Yes, I'm fine thanks PTP, hoping to stay safe here in Yorkshire. I trust you're OK too and I noticed that you've also moved out of the Big Smoke.
Absolutely fine thank you, PfP.
Yes, I'm a Gloucestershire man now, although I still have some work to do on the accent.
Cummings should just resign but seems he could not care less
Boris was bumbling and hopeless in front of the liason committee and conservative mps need to take back control from both of them, but when and how long it will take is anyone's guess
However, I want to speak out against the media and others, including obsessives on this site who actively want a narrative that no one will follow the NHS instructions because of Cummings behaviour, in a vain attempt to bring him and Boris down
It is not just coincidence that the vast amount of continuing attacks come from devoted remainers who know that once the 1st July passes the EU will either have to do a deal or it will be no deal. It is astonishing that Barnier should openly write to the dissenters offering upto two years, subject to payment no doubt of one billion a month, extension to transition
The widescale condemnation of Cummings is wholly justified but the public are scared enough that they will follow advice,and those who are using Cummings to undermine the message in a pandemic for political purposes is just not acceptable
Starmer has called this right by his low key intervention and it is time for the media to grow up and accept their responsibility to promote observation of the rules rather than mocking them
Journalism is not about gotchas
It has nothing to do with former Remainers. The Cummings story stands or falls by its own merits.
"Why we remember wars but forget plagues Pandemics aren't represented in film or literature because they're too boring, too horrific and too depressing By Sean Thomas"
One of the things that have surprised me in recent times was that Hong Kong flu killed 80k in 1969/70. I was out of the country at the time but my wife who was in Oban no memory of it. We have checked with others in their childhood and early adulthood at the time and they are all the same. No one remembers it.
We have speculated that this is because it did not swamp the media of the time in the way CV has today. Life seems to have gone on as normal, football continued to be played with crowds on the old packed terraces, people still went to work. Was a generation just out of the shadow of the war simply more sanguine about the vicissitudes of life? Did people not even know until after the event how calamitous it had been? Its a bit of a mystery.
Its called 24 hour news & twitter.
Also during the 50s and 60s flu regularly caused 60 thousand+ excess deaths in the winter.
Cummings should just resign but seems he could not care less
Boris was bumbling and hopeless in front of the liason committee and conservative mps need to take back control from both of them, but when and how long it will take is anyone's guess
However, I want to speak out against the media and others, including obsessives on this site who actively want a narrative that no one will follow the NHS instructions because of Cummings behaviour, in a vain attempt to bring him and Boris down
It is not just coincidence that the vast amount of continuing attacks come from devoted remainers who know that once the 1st July passes the EU will either have to do a deal or it will be no deal. It is astonishing that Barnier should openly write to the dissenters offering upto two years, subject to payment no doubt of one billion a month, extension to transition
The widescale condemnation of Cummings is wholly justified but the public are scared enough that they will follow advice,and those who are using Cummings to undermine the message in a pandemic for political purposes is just not acceptable
Starmer has called this right by his low key intervention and it is time for the media to grow up and accept their responsibility to promote observation of the rules rather than mocking them
Journalism is not about gotchas
I dint understand why some Tory posters keep trying to turn the matter back to Brexit, when it is quite obvious that some of the strongest Brexiters themselves are trying the hardest to see Cummings sacked.
The Cummings story was not brexit related and both Boris and Cummings need to go.
Burley this morning levers Cummings into every second word and is obsesed by the subject and when you look across the media it is solidly left leaning anti brexit.
According to Burley even Easyjet redundancies are Cummings fault
"Why we remember wars but forget plagues Pandemics aren't represented in film or literature because they're too boring, too horrific and too depressing By Sean Thomas"
One of the things that have surprised me in recent times was that Hong Kong flu killed 80k in 1969/70. I was out of the country at the time but my wife who was in Oban no memory of it. We have checked with others in their childhood and early adulthood at the time and they are all the same. No one remembers it.
We have speculated that this is because it did not swamp the media of the time in the way CV has today. Life seems to have gone on as normal, football continued to be played with crowds on the old packed terraces, people still went to work. Was a generation just out of the shadow of the war simply more sanguine about the vicissitudes of life? Did people not even know until after the event how calamitous it had been? Its a bit of a mystery.
Its called 24 hour news & twitter.
Also during the 50s and 60s flu regularly caused 60 thousand+ excess deaths in the winter.
Yes but the second and more serious wave of HK flu was apparently in July. That must have been noteworthy.
Cummings should just resign but seems he could not care less
Boris was bumbling and hopeless in front of the liason committee and conservative mps need to take back control from both of them, but when and how long it will take is anyone's guess
However, I want to speak out against the media and others, including obsessives on this site who actively want a narrative that no one will follow the NHS instructions because of Cummings behaviour, in a vain attempt to bring him and Boris down
It is not just coincidence that the vast amount of continuing attacks come from devoted remainers who know that once the 1st July passes the EU will either have to do a deal or it will be no deal. It is astonishing that Barnier should openly write to the dissenters offering upto two years, subject to payment no doubt of one billion a month, extension to transition
The widescale condemnation of Cummings is wholly justified but the public are scared enough that they will follow advice,and those who are using Cummings to undermine the message in a pandemic for political purposes is just not acceptable
Starmer has called this right by his low key intervention and it is time for the media to grow up and accept their responsibility to promote observation of the rules rather than mocking them
Journalism is not about gotchas
I dint understand why some Tory posters keep trying to turn the matter back to Brexit, when it is quite obvious that some of the strongest Brexiters themselves are trying the hardest to see Cummings sacked.
As a one time remainer that boat has left I will let those who think they know what they are doing to get on with it and live with the consequences. To think there is to any degree a remainer rear guard is laughable. Splitting polls by leave remain perpetuates the divide, yes leavers and remainers think differently but it’s far deeper than the EU. Whilst people remain in their party bubble the UK will never find the best way out of it’s coming nightmare as seeking party advantage trumps all.
Cummings should just resign but seems he could not care less
Boris was bumbling and hopeless in front of the liason committee and conservative mps need to take back control from both of them, but when and how long it will take is anyone's guess
However, I want to speak out against the media and others, including obsessives on this site who actively want a narrative that no one will follow the NHS instructions because of Cummings behaviour, in a vain attempt to bring him and Boris down
It is not just coincidence that the vast amount of continuing attacks come from devoted remainers who know that once the 1st July passes the EU will either have to do a deal or it will be no deal. It is astonishing that Barnier should openly write to the dissenters offering upto two years, subject to payment no doubt of one billion a month, extension to transition
The widescale condemnation of Cummings is wholly justified but the public are scared enough that they will follow advice,and those who are using Cummings to undermine the message in a pandemic for political purposes is just not acceptable
Starmer has called this right by his low key intervention and it is time for the media to grow up and accept their responsibility to promote observation of the rules rather than mocking them
Journalism is not about gotchas
I am not a "former Remainer". I am still a Remainer and I am hoping Johnson goes for a No Deal Brexit.
Re: Cummings. Whilst I get that people are very angry I still doubt that most have really more than a peripheral knowledge of the story, beyond the facts that he had (or suspected he had coronavirus), that he travelled to isolate with his parents rather than stay at home, and made some sort of trip to Barnard castle.
However, unless you genuinely believe that the travel to Durham was for any other reason than concern for how he and his wife would cope with their child if they both became seriously ill, then most of the cases of people complaining that they followed the rules when he didn’t are probably actually probably not directly comparable.
Interestingly I recall somebody in this site WAS in a very similar situation and was out of their mind with how they would cope (whether they theoretically had such a parental “option” I don’t know).
I've actually been surprised how much people have followed the saga and understood it. Maybe it's because there's no sport on and people are listening to the news more.
Without the Guardian and Mirror spinning the story as hard as they could then adding in blatant lies regarding second visits, which the anti Boris broadcasters all amplified, the Cummings story would have had the same impact as the Kinnocks doing the birthday visit, ie hardly any.
Maitlis is just the cherry on top of the media cake of shame.
As I said yesterday driving to Durham is now worse than murdering children. Never has there been so much press interest in and some much written about the Journey of a car from London to Durham.
I much preferred your earlier work in 'The Liver Birds', your later career as an Alt-Right Shock-jock still needs some finessing.
But as yet no obvious shift in the small lead that Biden has, which may suggest a large "Don't like Trump but not sure Biden is any good" voter cohort. A good VP candidate might shift that as Pence is already priced in. Warren seems too obvious to me, and too radical for the mainstream while too much of a wrecker to be forgiven by Bernie fans. Harris still looks a fair shot.
Trump's popularity has just reverted to the band it was stuck in before the little rally he got at the end of March.
Biden's VP pick might be only downside. If people are going to see the VP as a president-in-waiting this time because of Biden's age, it's a kind of lose-lose situation.
If he picks someone from the radical wing he might scare off all the voters who were going to vote Biden as the moderate option, if he picks someone more like him, he's going to lose the enthusiasm of the more radical voters. If he picks a non-white woman (as hinted), he's going to get accused of not picking the best person for the job because of political correctness, if he doesn't he's going to disappoint a lot of people who are expecting that. If he picks someone to appeal to people in Florida he might miss with people in the Mid-West and vice versa.
He's best off picking a likeable unknown who might pick up a few votes somewhere important, while not giving that much importance to the VP because Biden is going to be the president. Trying to run with "OK you're not sure if Biden is any good, but look at the VP you're getting!" doesn't sound like a winning formula to me.
"Why we remember wars but forget plagues Pandemics aren't represented in film or literature because they're too boring, too horrific and too depressing By Sean Thomas"
It's pretty good - but it misses out the family obvious point that the likely reason we've made so little effort to remember previous plagues is that it used to be something we just had to put up with. And it's not as though death itself hasn't been a constant preoccupation of writers throughout the ages.
Because we've found ways in which to intervene to mitigate, and possibly in future prevent pandemics, we'll likely make a determined effort to remember the detail of this one.
What is crystal clear is that for whatever reasons, and incompetence and ineptitude certainly play their part, the R number for the next few months is going to be hovering at or slightly above 1. Anything that helps control it needs careful consideration and international travellers are an obvious potential source of risk. Again there are economic consequences from further disrupting international travel but I do not think that this is a risk that we can take. But then I have thought this since February.
Except that we are left with the mystery as to precisely why rates are falling as they are, and particularly why R in London and New York is now lower than other parts of their respective countries.
Because a combination of lockdown measures (especially wrt public transport) and high levels of fear engendered by the particularly severe early outbreaks there) have led to bigger and more persistent changes in people's behaviour? I live in London and all members of our household have barely left the house since mid-March. Our opportunities for catching the disease are dramatically lower than they were before.
Cummings should just resign but seems he could not care less
Boris was bumbling and hopeless in front of the liason committee and conservative mps need to take back control from both of them, but when and how long it will take is anyone's guess
However, I want to speak out against the media and others, including obsessives on this site who actively want a narrative that no one will follow the NHS instructions because of Cummings behaviour, in a vain attempt to bring him and Boris down
It is not just coincidence that the vast amount of continuing attacks come from devoted remainers who know that once the 1st July passes the EU will either have to do a deal or it will be no deal. It is astonishing that Barnier should openly write to the dissenters offering upto two years, subject to payment no doubt of one billion a month, extension to transition
The widescale condemnation of Cummings is wholly justified but the public are scared enough that they will follow advice,and those who are using Cummings to undermine the message in a pandemic for political purposes is just not acceptable
Starmer has called this right by his low key intervention and it is time for the media to grow up and accept their responsibility to promote observation of the rules rather than mocking them
Journalism is not about gotchas
I am not a "former Remainer". I am still a Remainer and I am hoping Johnson goes for a No Deal Brexit.
What do you want to Remain in since we've already left? You could be a Rejoiner.
Barnier is driving me to support a No Deal end to transition too, though I do hope we get a deal but not selling our souls first.
"Why we remember wars but forget plagues Pandemics aren't represented in film or literature because they're too boring, too horrific and too depressing By Sean Thomas"
What appears to be a very accurate and sensitive antibody test for saliva samples. It’s based on a widely used commercial assay technology (Luminex), so ought to be rapidly scaleable.
It would be good to know how widespread this thing actually is.
Meanwhile in other news, a friend who stayed away from his dying mother (because its COVID right?) is going to the funeral today. His opinion of Cummings is unprintable...
Also from my mother on the phone last night: she has a list of other old people she calls up. Apparently Dominic Cummings is the first subject they all raise and they’re all furious (her word).
I’ve passed on from furious to contempt.
Its nothing to do with the journey.. or if it was its now about get Cummings.. at any price.
No, not 'at any price'. But why shouldn't people want to get him? One law for him, another for the rest of us. He should be reminded regularly, and so should Boris.
It didn't have to be that way.
The left and the remainers would do ANYTHING to get Cummings. Look at the dissembling by the Guardian for starters. Franky its been pretty unedifying. I think Cummings should go but the disgusting shrieking from left provokes me into hoping he will survive.
It is very easy to fall into that temptation and I have on occasions.
But the real issue is this. In the next 3-4 months the government is going to have to spend tens of billions of our money bailing out those industries that it thinks need to survive and which have a viable future going forward. Who is going to pick these winners? Sunak will certainly have an important role. Boris is the nominal decision maker but he is plainly still unwell and operating far below his normal capacity (about which, in any event, we could argue all day). Would we want someone with Cummings' skill set informing those decisions? If the answer is yes then he should stay because we need him. And, whatever you think of his morality, his honesty, his selfishness, his arrogance, his apparent sociopathic blindness, I think that the answer is yes.
What is Cummings's skill set? He ran the fundamentally dishonest and economically illiterate Leave campaign. He schmoozes with the trans-Atlantic billionaire donor class and acts as a shill for their interests. He fires people without due process. He writes ludicrous rambling blog posts that reek of schoolboy insecurities, self hatred and a borderline personality disorder. As far as I know he has only ever said two sensible things in his entire life: that David Davis is a lazy bastard and that defence procurement is riddled with corruption, neither of which require a towering intellect to have figured out. I feel sure that good government can operate in his absence.
Well your answer is clearly "no" in which event he should not be there whether he can justify a trip to Durham or not. But this remains the key question: is he actually useful? It is much more important than his flaws.
He's useful to Johnson. Whether he has any net utility for the country is a very different matter.
It looks like Biden might go for Warren but he would still be better off picking a Midwesterner like Klobuchar or Whitmer in my view and focusing on the swing states
But as yet no obvious shift in the small lead that Biden has, which may suggest a large "Don't like Trump but not sure Biden is any good" voter cohort. A good VP candidate might shift that as Pence is already priced in. Warren seems too obvious to me, and too radical for the mainstream while too much of a wrecker to be forgiven by Bernie fans. Harris still looks a fair shot.
Trump's popularity has just reverted to the band it was stuck in before the little rally he got at the end of March.
Biden's VP pick might be only downside. If people are going to see the VP as a president-in-waiting this time because of Biden's age, it's a kind of lose-lose situation.
If he picks someone from the radical wing he might scare off all the voters who were going to vote Biden as the moderate option, if he picks someone more like him, he's going to lose the enthusiasm of the more radical voters. If he picks a non-white woman (as hinted), he's going to get accused of not picking the best person for the job because of political correctness, if he doesn't he's going to disappoint a lot of people who are expecting that. If he picks someone to appeal to people in Florida he might miss with people in the Mid-West and vice versa.
He's best off picking a likeable unknown who might pick up a few votes somewhere important, while not giving that much importance to the VP because Biden is going to be the president. Trying to run with "OK you're not sure if Biden is any good, but look at the VP you're getting!" doesn't sound like a winning formula to me.
Really important point on a radical scaring off voters. I can see him picking Warren and it being a mistake.
Cummings should just resign but seems he could not care less
Boris was bumbling and hopeless in front of the liason committee and conservative mps need to take back control from both of them, but when and how long it will take is anyone's guess
However, I want to speak out against the media and others, including obsessives on this site who actively want a narrative that no one will follow the NHS instructions because of Cummings behaviour, in a vain attempt to bring him and Boris down
It is not just coincidence that the vast amount of continuing attacks come from devoted remainers who know that once the 1st July passes the EU will either have to do a deal or it will be no deal. It is astonishing that Barnier should openly write to the dissenters offering upto two years, subject to payment no doubt of one billion a month, extension to transition
The widescale condemnation of Cummings is wholly justified but the public are scared enough that they will follow advice,and those who are using Cummings to undermine the message in a pandemic for political purposes is just not acceptable
Starmer has called this right by his low key intervention and it is time for the media to grow up and accept their responsibility to promote observation of the rules rather than mocking them
Journalism is not about gotchas
I dint understand why some Tory posters keep trying to turn the matter back to Brexit, when it is quite obvious that some of the strongest Brexiters themselves are trying the hardest to see Cummings sacked.
The Cummings story was not brexit related and both Boris and Cummings need to go.
Burley this morning levers Cummings into every second word and is obsesed by the subject and when you look across the media it is solidly left leaning anti brexit.
According to Burley even Easyjet redundancies are Cummings fault
I said weeks ago incumbency would be a burden across the world post-pandemic irrespective of performance during or after the lockdown.
When everything goes to Hell in a handcart the government of the day will be the target, even if they did all they could to mitigate.
What is crystal clear is that for whatever reasons, and incompetence and ineptitude certainly play their part, the R number for the next few months is going to be hovering at or slightly above 1. Anything that helps control it needs careful consideration and international travellers are an obvious potential source of risk. Again there are economic consequences from further disrupting international travel but I do not think that this is a risk that we can take. But then I have thought this since February.
Except that we are left with the mystery as to precisely why rates are falling as they are, and particularly why R in London and New York is now lower than other parts of their respective countries.
Because a combination of lockdown measures (especially wrt public transport) and high levels of fear engendered by the particularly severe early outbreaks there) have led to bigger and more persistent changes in people's behaviour? I live in London and all members of our household have barely left the house since mid-March. Our opportunities for catching the disease are dramatically lower than they were before.
Remember we are comparing London with the same changes across the rest of the country. My evidence is also anecdotal (both personal and from the media) and I am sceptical that the effectiveness of the lockdown is significantly better in London than in the provinces. Indeed, the opposite, since the nature of London makes it more difficult to keep people apart.
"Why we remember wars but forget plagues Pandemics aren't represented in film or literature because they're too boring, too horrific and too depressing By Sean Thomas"
One of the things that have surprised me in recent times was that Hong Kong flu killed 80k in 1969/70. I was out of the country at the time but my wife who was in Oban no memory of it. We have checked with others in their childhood and early adulthood at the time and they are all the same. No one remembers it.
We have speculated that this is because it did not swamp the media of the time in the way CV has today. Life seems to have gone on as normal, football continued to be played with crowds on the old packed terraces, people still went to work. Was a generation just out of the shadow of the war simply more sanguine about the vicissitudes of life? Did people not even know until after the event how calamitous it had been? Its a bit of a mystery.
I suspect that the reasons you suggest are all true. I'd add: - limits on the rapid gathering and dissemination of data (people researching it would not have been tweeting updates - papers in journals after a few months, maybe a few things getting picked up by newspapers). Even getting the data to do research might have taken months. - it happened quite gradually compared to the current outbreak, which may have made it dull for newspapers - with, apparently, nothing really in the way of precautions it killed 80k. The current outbreak may get towards those numbers with a lockdown and 500k was floated without precautions - corona virus is still objectively a much bigger threat.
"Why we remember wars but forget plagues Pandemics aren't represented in film or literature because they're too boring, too horrific and too depressing By Sean Thomas"
Mr. Boy, unfair and incorrect. Psychopaths have superficial charm. It's one of the many reasons they're excellent leaders. Cummings is a narcissist.
High functioning (in society) psychopaths do tend to have strong superficial charm but this is not a defining characteristic of the condition. The main defining characteristic is a complete inability to feel empathy with other human beings. To take two notorious examples from crime. Ted Bundy and Ian Brady. Both of these, as psychopaths, could not empathize but they did not both possess high charm. Only Bundy did.
A combined age of 147 years ... I don't think the American electorate will be too keen on such a proposition. I can't help but think the Democratic ticket will look a whole lot more attractive with either 55 year-old Kamala Harris or Amy Klobuchar aged 60 on board ... my money wold be on the latter.
Hi PfP. All well?
Agree with your reasoning but not AK, who presents a bit of a problem for black voters. If I had to guess, I'd say KH but wouldn't bet at the odds.
Stay well. Keep washing those paws!
PtP
Yes, I'm fine thanks PTP, hoping to stay safe here in Yorkshire. I trust you're OK too and I noticed that you've also moved out of the Big Smoke.
Absolutely fine thank you, PfP.
Yes, I'm a Gloucestershire man now, although I still have some work to do on the accent.
Since moving here I have been struck by how distinctive and mellifluous it is. It also seems to be very local. I only have to drive ten miles north to Evesham (Worcestershire) and the accent changes dramatically.
Broadly speaking, Biden needs to win Florida to get the keys to the White House and if he does get Florida he will probably do well enough elsewhere to win the presidency. His entire campaign including VP pick should be focused on what will win Florida.
Comments
Maitlis is just the cherry on top of the media cake of shame.
But the real issue is this. In the next 3-4 months the government is going to have to spend tens of billions of our money bailing out those industries that it thinks need to survive and which have a viable future going forward. Who is going to pick these winners? Sunak will certainly have an important role. Boris is the nominal decision maker but he is plainly still unwell and operating far below his normal capacity (about which, in any event, we could argue all day).
Would we want someone with Cummings' skill set informing those decisions? If the answer is yes then he should stay because we need him. And, whatever you think of his morality, his honesty, his selfishness, his arrogance, his apparent sociopathic blindness, I think that the answer is yes.
Yes, I'm a Gloucestershire man now, although I still have some work to do on the accent.
Keep well.
As usual!!
The campaign to leave was dreadful. Yet the campaign to remain even worse.
Anyway, unless Conservative backbenchers use the threat of extension to try and force out Cummings/Johnson, that seems to be in the past.
https://twitter.com/gabyhinsliff/status/1265905245814743041
https://twitter.com/fatshez/status/1265905137354186752
Cummings and BoZo told a blatant lie, repeatedly, endlessly, continuously, and it worked.
Given that experience, why wouldn't they expect it work, over and over again?
I look forward to the day we find dino-prints on the surface of the moon
Mr. Boy, unfair and incorrect. Psychopaths have superficial charm. It's one of the many reasons they're excellent leaders. Cummings is a narcissist.
Daft and deserved.
If the trading benefits exceeded the cost (gross or net) then it would've been the most obvious thing in the world to highlight that.
Instead pro-EU types said it 'only' cost us £250m a week, or thereabouts, when taking a break from lambasting it's opponents as ignorant Little Englanders or trying to frighten people with portents of doom.
"We're Better Off In" focusing on economic advantages, and highlighting political victories, seems like another natural way to go.
But there we are.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/28/coronavirus-infection-rate-too-high-second-wave
My point is not meant to be partisan as I do have a huge concern over Tahir Ali attending a funeral during lockdown.
Ah well. How long til Christmas? Lets just skip through the rest of this year
Lets spend it on the NHS instead is.
And it worked.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_trump_job_approval-6179.html
But as yet no obvious shift in the small lead that Biden has, which may suggest a large "Don't like Trump but not sure Biden is any good" voter cohort. A good VP candidate might shift that as Pence is already priced in. Warren seems too obvious to me (fails the "interesting surprise" test), and too radical for the mainstream while too much of a wrecker to be forgiven by Bernie fans. Harris still looks a fair shot.
The only reason to dress that badly is so people look at you.
Quintessential narcissism
Boris was bumbling and hopeless in front of the liason committee and conservative mps need to take back control from both of them, but when and how long it will take is anyone's guess
However, I want to speak out against the media and others, including obsessives on this site who actively want a narrative that no one will follow the NHS instructions because of Cummings behaviour, in a vain attempt to bring him and Boris down
It is not just coincidence that the vast amount of continuing attacks come from devoted remainers who know that once the 1st July passes the EU will either have to do a deal or it will be no deal. It is astonishing that Barnier should openly write to the dissenters offering upto two years, subject to payment no doubt of one billion a month, extension to transition
The widescale condemnation of Cummings is wholly justified but the public are scared enough that they will follow advice,and those who are using Cummings to undermine the message in a pandemic for political purposes is just not acceptable
Starmer has called this right by his low key intervention and it is time for the media to grow up and accept their responsibility to promote observation of the rules rather than mocking them
Journalism is not about gotchas
We have speculated that this is because it did not swamp the media of the time in the way CV has today. Life seems to have gone on as normal, football continued to be played with crowds on the old packed terraces, people still went to work. Was a generation just out of the shadow of the war simply more sanguine about the vicissitudes of life? Did people not even know until after the event how calamitous it had been? Its a bit of a mystery.
The edit during Laura's piece made Boris' performance in the afternoon look like he fully grasped all the issues and was running a well-oiled machine. I had seen the car crash in all its glory, Johnson, when I watched it in the afternoon, demonstrated he neither grasped the issues nor ran a well-oiled machine
Cummings didn't stay home.
I don't care that much about people's flaws if their positives out way them.
Aw, bless.
https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/news/gloucester-news/gloucester-accent-is-one-sexiest-330842
Also during the 50s and 60s flu regularly caused 60 thousand+ excess deaths in the winter.
Burley this morning levers Cummings into every second word and is obsesed by the subject and when you look across the media it is solidly left leaning anti brexit.
According to Burley even Easyjet redundancies are Cummings fault
It was true and it worked. You had nothing to say so just whinge.
Biden's VP pick might be only downside. If people are going to see the VP as a president-in-waiting this time because of Biden's age, it's a kind of lose-lose situation.
If he picks someone from the radical wing he might scare off all the voters who were going to vote Biden as the moderate option, if he picks someone more like him, he's going to lose the enthusiasm of the more radical voters. If he picks a non-white woman (as hinted), he's going to get accused of not picking the best person for the job because of political correctness, if he doesn't he's going to disappoint a lot of people who are expecting that. If he picks someone to appeal to people in Florida he might miss with people in the Mid-West and vice versa.
He's best off picking a likeable unknown who might pick up a few votes somewhere important, while not giving that much importance to the VP because Biden is going to be the president. Trying to run with "OK you're not sure if Biden is any good, but look at the VP you're getting!" doesn't sound like a winning formula to me.
And it's not as though death itself hasn't been a constant preoccupation of writers throughout the ages.
Because we've found ways in which to intervene to mitigate, and possibly in future prevent pandemics, we'll likely make a determined effort to remember the detail of this one.
Barnier is driving me to support a No Deal end to transition too, though I do hope we get a deal but not selling our souls first.
He has come close to derailing the entire project
When everything goes to Hell in a handcart the government of the day will be the target, even if they did all they could to mitigate.
But the labels which have stuck are "Leaver" and "Remainer"
- limits on the rapid gathering and dissemination of data (people researching it would not have been tweeting updates - papers in journals after a few months, maybe a few things getting picked up by newspapers). Even getting the data to do research might have taken months.
- it happened quite gradually compared to the current outbreak, which may have made it dull for newspapers
- with, apparently, nothing really in the way of precautions it killed 80k. The current outbreak may get towards those numbers with a lockdown and 500k was floated without precautions - corona virus is still objectively a much bigger threat.
Or something
Since moving here I have been struck by how distinctive and mellifluous it is. It also seems to be very local. I only have to drive ten miles north to Evesham (Worcestershire) and the accent changes dramatically.