politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Joe Biden’s VP pick – we’ve now got a date
Comments
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Correct. If you say "this will not change a single vote" about everything that happens, you end up proving that there never has been or will be a change of government, just as the hare will never overtake the tortoise. I will certainly not vote for a Raab or Johnson led party in 2024.Gallowgate said:
You clearly lack enough intelligence to appreciate that if Tory voters are unhappy, they are more likely to change their voting intention.BluestBlue said:
If they still vote Tory at close to 100% levels, it doesn't matter the slighest sliver of a damn that they are 'unhappy with Dominic Cummings'.Gallowgate said:
There’s no disputing that 97% of GE19 Tory voters would still vote for them according to the polls. However there’s also no disputing that according to the polls, a majority of GE19 Tory voters are unhappy with Dominic Cummings, something you constantly froth about only being a concern of Twitter leftys. That is clearly untrue.BluestBlue said:
What government legislation are they going to vote against? And do they think 2019 Tory voters - 97% of whom still support the Tories even according to the worst polls - will forgive that kind of attack on their own Prime Minister? Most Tory voters' allegiance is still rock-steady, despite a week of endless media onslaught.MaxPB said:
By my reckoning there's probably something closer to a 20 seat majority while Dom is still in post. Hopefully it's lower or its pushed the government into a minorty position. That's the only pressure that will force Boris to make the change.Gallowgate said:
Yes, but, 80 seat majority.Scott_xP said:
Doesn’t stop you though in the name of provoking a reaction.
I don't know if you've noticed this but on Election Night they declare actual votes, not 'people who were unhappy with Dominic Cummings in May 2020'.
Oh, and please don't react if you don't want to. I can't take this level of boredom so early in the day.
Thus as a result of all this, these voters are MORE LIKELY to vote Labour in future elections.
I’m not saying they WILL, but they are MORE LIKELY.0 -
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Which brings us on to the subject of political novels.IshmaelZ said:
I said thisNigelb said:
Robinson is brilliant, though.Carnyx said:
Spy actually to my mind (though I prefer his John Macnab and historical stuff). There's also Childers' the Riddle of the Sands, which is a spy one so OT. And we were discussing Biggles novels some months back too - wasn't W. E. Johns a Great War veteran? There are lots of great memoirs of intrepid birdmen - or at least the ones who survived to write them - including 'Memoirs of an old balloonatic' being my latest find - but novels? Derek Robinson's revisionist hatchet jobs on Biggles are disqualified as retrospective according to the criterion enunciated earlier by one of us.ydoethur said:
Buchan’s Mr Standfast? Or do you think of that as a spy novel rather than a war novel?Carnyx said:
And on the earlier theme of Great War novels - you've got Barbusse Le Feu, Mottram Spanish Farm Trilogy, Junger Storm of Steel/In Stahlgewittern, Hasek The Good Soldier Svejk ...Mexicanpete said:
The greatest victory of them all against the Germans. ' World Cup Willie, famous for the cup...'Carnyx said:
What happened in 1966?Mexicanpete said:
You shouldn't underestimate our achievements in 1918, 1945 and 1966!Beibheirli_C said:
The Boy's Own Commando Comics? They appear to be required reading for some of the anti-Europe brigade. We'll show the filthy bosche!!!DecrepiterJohnL said:And is Sean even right about war? There is not much literature about war itself considering how much time we've spent on it. Take the Crimean, Boer and Great Wars: lots of poems and paintings but novels? ... Any number of great films but literature?
Did we mention a Farewell to Arms; Parade's End ?
"Have you read Parade's End? Very highly thought of, but I have never come across a novel where each and every character is so utterly and irredeemably awful...0 -
Sturgeon opens garden centres and construction sites can do "preparation".
You can have one household per day in your garden.
She doesn't give a toss about the economy.0 -
Sorry, but that is so shallow!kinabalu said:
I change my mind sometimes based on here. In particular, if somebody who is in my Bad Books says they like something that I happen to also like, I will if at all possible stop liking it. This has happened on numerous occasions.Nigel_Foremain said:
How many minds do you think you have changed on here lol?! People come on here to rant, vent and perhaps to wind up those that have ridiculous views. Every now and again there is an informative post, that informs (maybe shifts opinion a little) but rarely genuinely changes the minds of those with entrenched positions.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You are possessed.Scott_xP said:
You need to realise your constant negative posting is not going to change a single mind on here.3 -
The pattern in a number of countries has been - lock down, control the outbreak, begin to lift the lockdown, resurgence of the virus....eristdoof said:
According to many on this forum, South-Korea is the model example to follow.Sunil_Prasannan said:Apols if already posted:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/28/south-korea-faces-return-to-coronavirus-restrictions-after-spike-in-new-cases
South Korea re-imposes some coronavirus restrictions after spike in new cases.
Museums, parks, and art galleries will all be closed again from Friday for two weeks, with authorities struggling to identify transmission routes.
I wonder how quickly Germany will follow with some things closing again. We're coming up to the 4th Bank holiday weekend in 5 weeks. Last Thursday's holiday is particularly famous for groups of men meeting up and getting
pissed, which followed just one week after pubs reopening. Most pubs are doing the best at not allowing groups (just two households at one table and distance between occupied tables) but it's hard to stop drunken freinds friends from hugging as they meet for the first time in months.
I see no reason why this will not happen in more countries, multiple times.
The following has not been mentioned yet (I have a personal interest in the country) -
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/may/20/peru-coronavirus-lockdown-new-cases
The problem was, I believe, that the lockdown was *over strict*.
As in India, it made no account for the social and economic structures. Lots of people in marginal economic circumstances who *have* to go to work to live. No home food deliveries, no postal deliveries of other goods etc.
Money is all about cash and personal visits to banks and government offices are required to get things done.
Trying to lock people in their houses meant - stay inside, starve to death. For quite a few.0 -
Yet there he is a couple of posts further down, scary how accurate your comments prove to be!TGOHF666 said:
Starmer has been in hiding for a week since PMQs.LostPassword said:
Quite apart from the political aspects there's also a chance that a few people will listen to him and choose the hard option that keeps others safe in the weeks ahead.MaxPB said:
The smart move is to completely sideline the government and PM and make an appeal directly to the people about civic duty. Acknowledge that it's even more difficult to live by these rules because of the government's position on Cummings but make clear that they are still the right rules.CarlottaVance said:
Agree - he's played this brilliantly from the start "never interrupt your enemy while he is making mistakes" - from a political point of view its better for Labour if Cummings stays - an eternal reminder of "one law for them, another for us". A more difficult calculus for SKS is what's in the national interest.....he may conclude "A Labour government from 2024" and find that coincides with what's best for Labour...eek said:
SKS isn't that stupid.BluestBlue said:
Starmer's big idea is a Bill of Attainder against Cummings? 'Cos that's never been used as a tool of autocrats and won't look like a partisan witch-hunt at all!Scott_xP said:Does he read PB?
https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1265918936287260678
Let him go ahead. As long as he realizes that he'll be declaring total war on a government with a landslide majority and zero fucks to give.
Hope it's worth it, Keir!
"Today I'm asking the people of the UK to continue observing the social distancing rules and to comply with contact tracers if they are asked to isolate. I know this is something that is even more difficult to do now than it was last week because of actions taken by the PM and Mr Cummings, but it is still the right thing to do. I believe that all of the people in the UK have an extraordinary capacity to do the right thing when asked. This doesn't mean we are letting the government or Mr Cummings off the hook and neither should you, but these actions by him should not be allowed to interfere with our ability to reopen the economy and keep our people and NHS safe from this virus."
That kind of statement makes Starmer the de facto PM and people will see him as PM material.
It's past time waiting for Johnson to do the right thing, and complaining when he doesn't. Other people have to do the right thing in his stead. I hope Starmer - and others - do as you suggest.0 -
But that is a country where the incidence of the virus is currently extremely low.CarlottaVance said:On social distancing:
There are plans for the Bailiwick to copy the example set by New Zealand, which uses physical distancing of two metres or one metre, depending on the circumstance.
Controlled environments in New Zealand such as school classrooms and workplaces use a one metre guideline, and other spaces such as on public transport use two metres.
The Director of Public Health, Dr Nicola Brink, explained the rationale.
‘Controlled circumstance is, for example, when you’re in a restaurant or a classroom and you know who everyone is in the classroom or restaurant and you can get contact details, so that if someone became ill we could contact trace very quickly, and for those circumstances we are recommending one metre. However, in more uncontrolled environments we are looking at two metres, for example that’s walking around a supermarket, where you could pass someone you don’t know and there’s not the same level of detail.
https://guernseypress.com/news/2020/05/28/plans-to-copy-new-zealand-social-distancing-measures/
If we were in that situation, opening up without the numbers going back up would be massively simpler.0 -
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A low, a low, a low.0
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Your thirst for validation of your choices continues. Dunno why you bother.OllyT said:
Yet there he is a couple of posts further down, scary how accurate your comments prove to be!TGOHF666 said:
Starmer has been in hiding for a week since PMQs.LostPassword said:
Quite apart from the political aspects there's also a chance that a few people will listen to him and choose the hard option that keeps others safe in the weeks ahead.MaxPB said:
The smart move is to completely sideline the government and PM and make an appeal directly to the people about civic duty. Acknowledge that it's even more difficult to live by these rules because of the government's position on Cummings but make clear that they are still the right rules.CarlottaVance said:
Agree - he's played this brilliantly from the start "never interrupt your enemy while he is making mistakes" - from a political point of view its better for Labour if Cummings stays - an eternal reminder of "one law for them, another for us". A more difficult calculus for SKS is what's in the national interest.....he may conclude "A Labour government from 2024" and find that coincides with what's best for Labour...eek said:
SKS isn't that stupid.BluestBlue said:
Starmer's big idea is a Bill of Attainder against Cummings? 'Cos that's never been used as a tool of autocrats and won't look like a partisan witch-hunt at all!Scott_xP said:Does he read PB?
https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1265918936287260678
Let him go ahead. As long as he realizes that he'll be declaring total war on a government with a landslide majority and zero fucks to give.
Hope it's worth it, Keir!
"Today I'm asking the people of the UK to continue observing the social distancing rules and to comply with contact tracers if they are asked to isolate. I know this is something that is even more difficult to do now than it was last week because of actions taken by the PM and Mr Cummings, but it is still the right thing to do. I believe that all of the people in the UK have an extraordinary capacity to do the right thing when asked. This doesn't mean we are letting the government or Mr Cummings off the hook and neither should you, but these actions by him should not be allowed to interfere with our ability to reopen the economy and keep our people and NHS safe from this virus."
That kind of statement makes Starmer the de facto PM and people will see him as PM material.
It's past time waiting for Johnson to do the right thing, and complaining when he doesn't. Other people have to do the right thing in his stead. I hope Starmer - and others - do as you suggest.0 -
Or they might just not turn out.Gallowgate said:
You clearly lack enough intelligence to appreciate that if Tory voters are unhappy, they are more likely to change their voting intention.BluestBlue said:
If they still vote Tory at close to 100% levels, it doesn't matter the slighest sliver of a damn that they are 'unhappy with Dominic Cummings'.Gallowgate said:
There’s no disputing that 97% of GE19 Tory voters would still vote for them according to the polls. However there’s also no disputing that according to the polls, a majority of GE19 Tory voters are unhappy with Dominic Cummings, something you constantly froth about only being a concern of Twitter leftys. That is clearly untrue.BluestBlue said:
What government legislation are they going to vote against? And do they think 2019 Tory voters - 97% of whom still support the Tories even according to the worst polls - will forgive that kind of attack on their own Prime Minister? Most Tory voters' allegiance is still rock-steady, despite a week of endless media onslaught.MaxPB said:
By my reckoning there's probably something closer to a 20 seat majority while Dom is still in post. Hopefully it's lower or its pushed the government into a minorty position. That's the only pressure that will force Boris to make the change.Gallowgate said:
Yes, but, 80 seat majority.Scott_xP said:
Doesn’t stop you though in the name of provoking a reaction.
I don't know if you've noticed this but on Election Night they declare actual votes, not 'people who were unhappy with Dominic Cummings in May 2020'.
Oh, and please don't react if you don't want to. I can't take this level of boredom so early in the day.
Thus as a result of all this, these voters are MORE LIKELY to vote Labour in future elections.
I’m not saying they WILL, but they are MORE LIKELY.0 -
If the police are taking no action, why should the employer?Scott_xP said:
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So we've moved from a failing oil based economy to a failing garden centre based one? Things are changing fast!TGOHF666 said:Sturgeon opens garden centres and construction sites can do "preparation".
You can have one household per day in your garden.
She doesn't give a toss about the economy.0 -
"Nicola Sturgeon says the focus on the changes will be on "family, friendship, love"Theuniondivvie said:
So we've moved from a failing oil based economy to a failing garden centre based one? Things are changing fast!TGOHF666 said:Sturgeon opens garden centres and construction sites can do "preparation".
You can have one household per day in your garden.
She doesn't give a toss about the economy.
Ie f**k business.0 -
Where the blond bloater goes, we all follow.TGOHF666 said:
"Nicola Sturgeon says the focus on the changes will be on "family, friendship, love"Theuniondivvie said:
So we've moved from a failing oil based economy to a failing garden centre based one? Things are changing fast!TGOHF666 said:Sturgeon opens garden centres and construction sites can do "preparation".
You can have one household per day in your garden.
She doesn't give a toss about the economy.
Ie f**k business.1 -
I think until recently for most Tories voting Labour was impossible. If SKS makes it thinkable - and that is clearly the aim - then it gets interesting. But SKS has much to do about policy, anti-semitism and on the qualities of some of the people who mouth off in the Labour cause.Gallowgate said:
You clearly lack enough intelligence to appreciate that if Tory voters are unhappy, they are more likely to change their voting intention.BluestBlue said:
If they still vote Tory at close to 100% levels, it doesn't matter the slighest sliver of a damn that they are 'unhappy with Dominic Cummings'.Gallowgate said:
There’s no disputing that 97% of GE19 Tory voters would still vote for them according to the polls. However there’s also no disputing that according to the polls, a majority of GE19 Tory voters are unhappy with Dominic Cummings, something you constantly froth about only being a concern of Twitter leftys. That is clearly untrue.BluestBlue said:
What government legislation are they going to vote against? And do they think 2019 Tory voters - 97% of whom still support the Tories even according to the worst polls - will forgive that kind of attack on their own Prime Minister? Most Tory voters' allegiance is still rock-steady, despite a week of endless media onslaught.MaxPB said:
By my reckoning there's probably something closer to a 20 seat majority while Dom is still in post. Hopefully it's lower or its pushed the government into a minorty position. That's the only pressure that will force Boris to make the change.Gallowgate said:
Yes, but, 80 seat majority.Scott_xP said:
Doesn’t stop you though in the name of provoking a reaction.
I don't know if you've noticed this but on Election Night they declare actual votes, not 'people who were unhappy with Dominic Cummings in May 2020'.
Oh, and please don't react if you don't want to. I can't take this level of boredom so early in the day.
Thus as a result of all this, these voters are MORE LIKELY to vote Labour in future elections.
I’m not saying they WILL, but they are MORE LIKELY.
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I hear diversification is important when it comes to economies.Theuniondivvie said:
So we've moved from a failing oil based economy to a failing garden centre based one? Things are changing fast!TGOHF666 said:Sturgeon opens garden centres and construction sites can do "preparation".
You can have one household per day in your garden.
She doesn't give a toss about the economy.1 -
Which bit of 'no further action' in the Durham police statement was unclear or difficult to understand?rottenborough said:0 -
Public-private partnership enabled Korea's COVID-19 response
https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/biz/2020/05/488_290279.html
...Mass testing played a crucial role. This was enabled by biotech firm Seegene, which used an artificial intelligence (AI) based big data system to design a COVID-19 diagnostic test utilizing genetic modeling without the need of a sample. The process took three weeks; developing the test using standard techniques would have taken an estimated two to three months.
The government cross-checked laboratory results and fast-tracked approval of the test kits to scale up testing capacity.
The government also launched drive-through testing at 96 locations in 23 days. The testing process was streamlined to take 15 minutes, and minimizes direct contact, as the driver did not have to leave the vehicle.
This enabled a testing capacity of 20,000 people a day. Drive-through testing also eliminated the need to decontaminate spaces between patients. Automated testing systems reduced the time to obtain results.
The time to complete a test was reduced from 24 hours, Feb. 10, to 6 hours by Feb. 27.
The government authorized the private sector to conduct testing after falling short of testing capacity during the 2015 MERS epidemic when only government entities could carry out tests. In the case of COVID-19, private laboratories provided 90 percent of the country's testing capacity.
The government also cut down contact-tracing time from 24 hours in early February to 10 minutes at the end of March by incorporating a digital surveillance system that gathered information from 28 public and private organizations, including the police, mobile carriers and credit card companies...
Three months later... I don't think Johnson has a clue what 'world beating' might entail.2 -
F##k off Piers.rottenborough said:
Police said it was minor and not worthy of them getting involved further. End of story.
Minor breaches aren't worthy of people losing their job unless you're a nasty, pernicious, vindictive arsehole.1 -
I already did that, but you said you weren't interested...DougSeal said:
Even if he reads this blog I doubt winking at SKS is going to have any effect I’m afraid. He’s married too. Maybe set your sights a bit lower?BluestBlue said:
Starmer's big idea is a Bill of Attainder against Cummings? 'Cos that's never been used as a tool of autocrats and won't look like a partisan witch-hunt at all!Scott_xP said:Does he read PB?
https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1265918936287260678
Let him go ahead. As long as he realizes that he'll be declaring total war on a government with a landslide majority and zero fucks to give.
Hope it's worth it, Keir!0 -
You mean like the Stasi would have done?TGOHF666 said:
I would put anyone who contacted their MP about what Dom did back in April on a watch list.Gallowgate said:
Is your premiss that this is the work of someone like Owen Jones and his Twitter followers rather than actual Conservative voters? Are you actually so naive that you think that Conservative voters do not care about this, and that polling such as in the Daily Mail is just fake news?TGOHF666 said:
I wonder who is manning these phone banks and email factories hounding MPs?BluestBlue said:
'Not going to comply with track and trace out of protest'?Scott_xP said:
Do these people realize that making that argument automatically exposes them as hypocrites? The entire premise of the moral outrage against Cummings is that endangering public health is the worst thing in the world, so when the exact same people then conclude 'therefore I can go ahead and endanger public health as much as I like', it reveals them to be rank hypocrites.
If an authority figure committed a murder, would you be justified in saying 'Well, now I'm not going to comply with the laws against murder out of protest'? These ridiculous people apparently think that would be morally justifiable.
Have they nothing better to do ? Definitely worth the watching.0 -
Yep, that's why Scotland having (contra the fixations of Unionists) a diverse economy is a good thing.RobD said:
I hear diversification is important when it comes to economies.Theuniondivvie said:
So we've moved from a failing oil based economy to a failing garden centre based one? Things are changing fast!TGOHF666 said:Sturgeon opens garden centres and construction sites can do "preparation".
You can have one household per day in your garden.
She doesn't give a toss about the economy.0 -
For a minor breach of rules a verbal warning is an appropriate sanction for an employee unless they're already on a verbal/written warning. It isn't Gross Misconduct.1
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Following around 4-6 weeks behind England in re-opening.Theuniondivvie said:
Where the blond bloater goes, we all follow.TGOHF666 said:
"Nicola Sturgeon says the focus on the changes will be on "family, friendship, love"Theuniondivvie said:
So we've moved from a failing oil based economy to a failing garden centre based one? Things are changing fast!TGOHF666 said:Sturgeon opens garden centres and construction sites can do "preparation".
You can have one household per day in your garden.
She doesn't give a toss about the economy.
Ie f**k business.
William Wallace must be turning on his London Bridge spike.0 -
But you've been telling us for days that no rules were broken. Which is it?Philip_Thompson said:For a minor breach of rules a verbal warning is an appropriate sanction for an employee unless they're already on a verbal/written warning. It isn't Gross Misconduct.
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It is indeed a many player version of the prisoner's dilemma.LostPassword said:
I hope everyone will do the right thing and self-isolate when asked to do so, however it's not as stupid as you make out.boulay said:
I’m assuming that if Dominic Cummings decides to jump off a cliff then these people will also not use their own common sense and jump off a cliff because he did?Scott_xP said:
If what Dominic Cummings did is so very wrong and these people are angry he did wrong why are they also going to do what they say is wrong and put themselves or others at risk?
If they do something that’s putting other people at risk because they think that “hypocrisy” now gives them permission then surely it’s not actually that bad what he did and they should stop complaining.
Why don’t people just tut and call him a hypocritical dick and carry on observing lockdown in a properly righteous way.....
It's an example of a prisoner's dilemma. If we all follow the self-isolation rules then we all benefit. This is what we want to happen.
If one person breaks those rules then they benefit twice - from not having to follow the rules themselves and from other people doing so. This is what Cummings did.
If lots of people don't follow the rules, but you do, then you suffer twice - by following the rules and due to the virus still spreading because others don't do so. This is now the scenario (some/many/most?) people are expecting and wanting to avoid.
So the risk is that we end up with many/most? people not following the self-isolation rules and a second wave, because of Cummings freeloading on others self-denial.
An even more clear cut example of the many player prisoner's dilemma is the choice to vaccinate or not.
If everyone is vaccinated, then I don't need to be and so I win by not feeling ropey after the vaccine and not gettin ill because of herd immunity.
If everyone reasons the same as me then noone cooperates noone gets vaccinated and many people pay the cost of catching the disease.
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Would you sack an employee for getting a parking ticket ? A speeding fine ?MaxPB said:
But you've been telling us for days that no rules were broken. Which is it?Philip_Thompson said:For a minor breach of rules a verbal warning is an appropriate sanction for an employee unless they're already on a verbal/written warning. It isn't Gross Misconduct.
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Clearly not 17.5 stone there. Indeed one does not need to be @Philip_Thompson to detect a trace of muscle. So yet another casual fib just tossed out for effect? There is also the little matter of when the baby was due. Now I am not going to get obsessed with such matters - it is tabloid and I am broadsheet - but really, why oh why does he do it?rottenborough said:0 -
If he wrote the rules for either of them, yes.TGOHF666 said:
Would you sack an employee for getting a parking ticket ? A speeding fine ?MaxPB said:
But you've been telling us for days that no rules were broken. Which is it?Philip_Thompson said:For a minor breach of rules a verbal warning is an appropriate sanction for an employee unless they're already on a verbal/written warning. It isn't Gross Misconduct.
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Starsports has just this minute suspended betting on Dominic Cummings. Has there been a development or did a punter want more than tuppence ha'penny on?
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I also said there should be an independent investigation too ...MaxPB said:
But you've been telling us for days that no rules were broken. Which is it?Philip_Thompson said:For a minor breach of rules a verbal warning is an appropriate sanction for an employee unless they're already on a verbal/written warning. It isn't Gross Misconduct.
There has been one. I'm happy to accept it's results. According to that I was right about the trip to Durham and wrong about Barnhard Castle. Fair enough.
Given the primary one of concern has been cleared of being a breach and the secondary one is minor then a warning and an apology would be appropriate in my eyes.0 -
So Cummings' breach was even more minor then?rottenborough said:2 -
The bit where he breachedBluestBlue said:
Which bit of 'no further action' in the Durham police statement was unclear or difficult to understand?rottenborough said:0 -
FPTP destroys everything in the end.OnlyLivingBoy said:
It's awful that this view of politics is gaining ground here. It's the reason why US politics is so dysfunctional. It's the mentality of the bully and the authoritarian, and is not compatible with reasoned democratic debate and an open and pluralistic political culture. I imagine you are quite young and would hope that as you get older you will realise your perspective on the world is fundamentally unhealthy.0 -
Deleted due to confused quoting0
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First 3 words are impeccable and ever relevant.Philip_Thompson said:
F##k off Piers.rottenborough said:
Police said it was minor and not worthy of them getting involved further. End of story.
Minor breaches aren't worthy of people losing their job unless you're a nasty, pernicious, vindictive arsehole.
But yesterday you were constructing a "letter of the law" defence for your man.
Circular file for that one, methinks.0 -
The optics and the politics are off-the-scale bad, but I strongly encourage the Tory party to keep him.Philip_Thompson said:
F##k off Piers.rottenborough said:
Police said it was minor and not worthy of them getting involved further. End of story.
Minor breaches aren't worthy of people losing their job unless you're a nasty, pernicious, vindictive arsehole.0 -
Looks like he could be 17.5 stone there to me.kinabalu said:
Clearly not 17.5 stone there. Indeed one does not need to be @Philip_Thompson to detect a trace of muscle. So yet another casual fib just tossed out for effect? There is also the little matter of when the baby was due. Now I am not going to get obsessed with such matters - it is tabloid and I am broadsheet - but really, why oh why does he do it?rottenborough said:0 -
I'm surprised the police are allowed to announce that someone is guilty.TGOHF666 said:
Would you sack an employee for getting a parking ticket ? A speeding fine ?MaxPB said:
But you've been telling us for days that no rules were broken. Which is it?Philip_Thompson said:For a minor breach of rules a verbal warning is an appropriate sanction for an employee unless they're already on a verbal/written warning. It isn't Gross Misconduct.
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Anti Tory Twitter poster posts anti Tory rhetoric. Well what a shock. It's all ifs and buts. He wasn't, that's the point and won't be.Scott_xP said:2 -
Wait - the police would factor in whether someone resigned in deciding to charge them ?
Er No.1 -
snip0
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That depends, is there a deadly parking epidemic killing tens of thousands of people, and it could kill hundreds of thousands if unchecked? Also does stopping the killer parking epidemic require everyone to change their behaviour, at considerable cost to themselves, in a way that can't really be enforced, and relies on goodwill amd cooperation? Finally, is the employee in question heavily responsible for the recommendations on parking that if followed will stop all those people dying?TGOHF666 said:
Would you sack an employee for getting a parking ticket ? A speeding fine ?MaxPB said:
But you've been telling us for days that no rules were broken. Which is it?Philip_Thompson said:For a minor breach of rules a verbal warning is an appropriate sanction for an employee unless they're already on a verbal/written warning. It isn't Gross Misconduct.
If the answers to those questions are mostly "yes", I would definitely fire the employee.0 -
Yes whatever happened to courts of law?Flatlander said:
I'm surprised the police are allowed to announce that someone is guilty.TGOHF666 said:
Would you sack an employee for getting a parking ticket ? A speeding fine ?MaxPB said:
But you've been telling us for days that no rules were broken. Which is it?Philip_Thompson said:For a minor breach of rules a verbal warning is an appropriate sanction for an employee unless they're already on a verbal/written warning. It isn't Gross Misconduct.
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A boss of an SME repeatedly tells his employees not to steal stationery from the company. The company can afford it but it is theft, and should not be tolerated. One employee does walk off with an A4 pad. He gets a talking to from his line manager, but no formal warning. The boss gets caught taking some pens and paper home with him.Philip_Thompson said:For a minor breach of rules a verbal warning is an appropriate sanction for an employee unless they're already on a verbal/written warning. It isn't Gross Misconduct.
Suddenly half of the stationery cupboard goes walkies as many of the employees don't give a shit about company stationery any more.0 -
A cabinet as lightweight as this simply cannot afford to lose Suella Braverman.Scott_xP said:0 -
He wrote the lockdown rules and then broke them, it's a resigning matter. We're way beyond apologies.Philip_Thompson said:
I also said there should be an independent investigation too ...MaxPB said:
But you've been telling us for days that no rules were broken. Which is it?Philip_Thompson said:For a minor breach of rules a verbal warning is an appropriate sanction for an employee unless they're already on a verbal/written warning. It isn't Gross Misconduct.
There has been one. I'm happy to accept it's results. According to that I was right about the trip to Durham and wrong about Barnhard Castle. Fair enough.
Given the primary one of concern has been cleared of being a breach and the secondary one is minor then a warning and an apology would be appropriate in my eyes.0 -
Fixed penalty notices don't need a judge or jury.contrarian said:
Yes whatever happened to courts of law?Flatlander said:
I'm surprised the police are allowed to announce that someone is guilty.TGOHF666 said:
Would you sack an employee for getting a parking ticket ? A speeding fine ?MaxPB said:
But you've been telling us for days that no rules were broken. Which is it?Philip_Thompson said:For a minor breach of rules a verbal warning is an appropriate sanction for an employee unless they're already on a verbal/written warning. It isn't Gross Misconduct.
0 -
As I recall neither Ferguson nor the Scottish CMO were issued with a fine, but both lost their jobs, and neither drafted the lockdown regulations. How can Cummings keep his job?Scott_xP said:0 -
But you are allowed to appeal them.RobD said:
Fixed penalty notices don't need a judge or jury.contrarian said:
Yes whatever happened to courts of law?Flatlander said:
I'm surprised the police are allowed to announce that someone is guilty.TGOHF666 said:
Would you sack an employee for getting a parking ticket ? A speeding fine ?MaxPB said:
But you've been telling us for days that no rules were broken. Which is it?Philip_Thompson said:For a minor breach of rules a verbal warning is an appropriate sanction for an employee unless they're already on a verbal/written warning. It isn't Gross Misconduct.
0 -
And this one wasn't even worth the police chasing down for a fine.RobD said:
Fixed penalty notices don't need a judge or jury.contrarian said:
Yes whatever happened to courts of law?Flatlander said:
I'm surprised the police are allowed to announce that someone is guilty.TGOHF666 said:
Would you sack an employee for getting a parking ticket ? A speeding fine ?MaxPB said:
But you've been telling us for days that no rules were broken. Which is it?Philip_Thompson said:For a minor breach of rules a verbal warning is an appropriate sanction for an employee unless they're already on a verbal/written warning. It isn't Gross Misconduct.
It was that minor.
1 -
-
This is what people like @Philip_Thompson don't understand, it's not Dave from Sainsbury's breaking the rules, it's a highly visible government advisor who wrote the rules.2
-
So, we're their any factual inaccuracies in what maitlis said then?1
-
Theft isn't minor and is Gross Misconduct.eristdoof said:
A boss of an SME repeatedly tells his employees not to steal stationery from the company. The company can afford it but it is theft, and should not be tolerated. One employee does walk off with an A4 pad. He gets a talking to from his line manager, but no formal warning. The boss gets caught taking some pens and paper home with him.Philip_Thompson said:For a minor breach of rules a verbal warning is an appropriate sanction for an employee unless they're already on a verbal/written warning. It isn't Gross Misconduct.
Suddenly half of the stationery cupboard goes walkies as many of the employees don't give a shit about company stationery any more.0 -
Starsports traders have been brainstorming new markets, possibly in one of those pub gardens we read so much about.
Duration of Today's Briefing (From First to Last Word Spoken Including Q&A)
26 Mins or Less 16/1
26.01 - 30 mins 10/1
30.01 - 34 mins 6/1
34.01 - 38 mins 5/1
38.01 - 42 mins 6/1
42.01 - 46 mins 5/1
46.01 - 50 mins 7/1
50.01 - 54 mins 5/1
54.01 - 58 mins 5/1
58.01 - 62 mins 5/1
62.01 - 66 mins 6/1
66.01 mins or Longer 10/1
The Last Word
What Will Be the Last Word Spoken at Today's (Thursday) Briefing ?
Much 10/11
You 1/1
Goodbye 8/1
Today 8/1
All 16/1
Briefing 16/1
Safe 16/1
Conference 20/1
Soon 20/1
Alert 33/1
Others on Request --- Punters beware!!
Cummings Count
How Many Times Will the Word 'Cummings' be said in reference to Dominic Cummings at Today's Briefing ? (Q&A Counts)
Zero 'Cummings' 7/1
1 8/1
2 5/1
3 5/1
4 8/1
5 7/1
6 12/1
7 9/1
8 6/1
9 8/1
10 or More 'Cummings' 3/1
0 -
"The first minister says: "I don't mind admitting to you that as we take these first steps I do feel a bit nervous."
Nervous she wont be on the tv every lunchtime..0 -
True. I haven't seen the exact wording of the police statement. It may have been more nuanced than reported.eristdoof said:
But you are allowed to appeal them.RobD said:
Fixed penalty notices don't need a judge or jury.contrarian said:
Yes whatever happened to courts of law?Flatlander said:
I'm surprised the police are allowed to announce that someone is guilty.TGOHF666 said:
Would you sack an employee for getting a parking ticket ? A speeding fine ?MaxPB said:
But you've been telling us for days that no rules were broken. Which is it?Philip_Thompson said:For a minor breach of rules a verbal warning is an appropriate sanction for an employee unless they're already on a verbal/written warning. It isn't Gross Misconduct.
0 -
When a man's whole career and life are at stake, some one say that's not really due process.RobD said:
Fixed penalty notices don't need a judge or jury.contrarian said:
Yes whatever happened to courts of law?Flatlander said:
I'm surprised the police are allowed to announce that someone is guilty.TGOHF666 said:
Would you sack an employee for getting a parking ticket ? A speeding fine ?MaxPB said:
But you've been telling us for days that no rules were broken. Which is it?Philip_Thompson said:For a minor breach of rules a verbal warning is an appropriate sanction for an employee unless they're already on a verbal/written warning. It isn't Gross Misconduct.
2 -
If can't see how idiotic you look saying Starmer has been in hiding for a week when a post appears a couple of seconds later showing that he clearly hasn''t.TGOHF666 said:
Your thirst for validation of your choices continues. Dunno why you bother.OllyT said:
Yet there he is a couple of posts further down, scary how accurate your comments prove to be!TGOHF666 said:
Starmer has been in hiding for a week since PMQs.LostPassword said:
Quite apart from the political aspects there's also a chance that a few people will listen to him and choose the hard option that keeps others safe in the weeks ahead.MaxPB said:
The smart move is to completely sideline the government and PM and make an appeal directly to the people about civic duty. Acknowledge that it's even more difficult to live by these rules because of the government's position on Cummings but make clear that they are still the right rules.CarlottaVance said:
Agree - he's played this brilliantly from the start "never interrupt your enemy while he is making mistakes" - from a political point of view its better for Labour if Cummings stays - an eternal reminder of "one law for them, another for us". A more difficult calculus for SKS is what's in the national interest.....he may conclude "A Labour government from 2024" and find that coincides with what's best for Labour...eek said:
SKS isn't that stupid.BluestBlue said:
Starmer's big idea is a Bill of Attainder against Cummings? 'Cos that's never been used as a tool of autocrats and won't look like a partisan witch-hunt at all!Scott_xP said:Does he read PB?
https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1265918936287260678
Let him go ahead. As long as he realizes that he'll be declaring total war on a government with a landslide majority and zero fucks to give.
Hope it's worth it, Keir!
"Today I'm asking the people of the UK to continue observing the social distancing rules and to comply with contact tracers if they are asked to isolate. I know this is something that is even more difficult to do now than it was last week because of actions taken by the PM and Mr Cummings, but it is still the right thing to do. I believe that all of the people in the UK have an extraordinary capacity to do the right thing when asked. This doesn't mean we are letting the government or Mr Cummings off the hook and neither should you, but these actions by him should not be allowed to interfere with our ability to reopen the economy and keep our people and NHS safe from this virus."
That kind of statement makes Starmer the de facto PM and people will see him as PM material.
It's past time waiting for Johnson to do the right thing, and complaining when he doesn't. Other people have to do the right thing in his stead. I hope Starmer - and others - do as you suggest.
I bother because otherwise people like you get away with the despicable comment that people put their relatives in care home because "they smell a bit".0 -
No. Even people who write rules can make errors in interpreting them. Errors of judgement are not a resigning matter.MaxPB said:
He wrote the lockdown rules and then broke them, it's a resigning matter. We're way beyond apologies.Philip_Thompson said:
I also said there should be an independent investigation too ...MaxPB said:
But you've been telling us for days that no rules were broken. Which is it?Philip_Thompson said:For a minor breach of rules a verbal warning is an appropriate sanction for an employee unless they're already on a verbal/written warning. It isn't Gross Misconduct.
There has been one. I'm happy to accept it's results. According to that I was right about the trip to Durham and wrong about Barnhard Castle. Fair enough.
Given the primary one of concern has been cleared of being a breach and the secondary one is minor then a warning and an apology would be appropriate in my eyes.1 -
Does this work? If there is no herd immunity then it is an advantage to have been vaccinated.eristdoof said:
It is indeed a many player version of the prisoner's dilemma.LostPassword said:
I hope everyone will do the right thing and self-isolate when asked to do so, however it's not as stupid as you make out.boulay said:
I’m assuming that if Dominic Cummings decides to jump off a cliff then these people will also not use their own common sense and jump off a cliff because he did?Scott_xP said:
If what Dominic Cummings did is so very wrong and these people are angry he did wrong why are they also going to do what they say is wrong and put themselves or others at risk?
If they do something that’s putting other people at risk because they think that “hypocrisy” now gives them permission then surely it’s not actually that bad what he did and they should stop complaining.
Why don’t people just tut and call him a hypocritical dick and carry on observing lockdown in a properly righteous way.....
It's an example of a prisoner's dilemma. If we all follow the self-isolation rules then we all benefit. This is what we want to happen.
If one person breaks those rules then they benefit twice - from not having to follow the rules themselves and from other people doing so. This is what Cummings did.
If lots of people don't follow the rules, but you do, then you suffer twice - by following the rules and due to the virus still spreading because others don't do so. This is now the scenario (some/many/most?) people are expecting and wanting to avoid.
So the risk is that we end up with many/most? people not following the self-isolation rules and a second wave, because of Cummings freeloading on others self-denial.
An even more clear cut example of the many player prisoner's dilemma is the choice to vaccinate or not.
If everyone is vaccinated, then I don't need to be and so I win by not feeling ropey after the vaccine and not gettin ill because of herd immunity.
If everyone reasons the same as me then noone cooperates noone gets vaccinated and many people pay the cost of catching the disease.0 -
I see we've moved rapidly from the 'he did nothing wrong' stage to the 'what he did wrong was minor' one. Prediction: uncontrolled foot stamping and 'but Emily Maitliss' next.1
-
Yes they are. It's like the head of the highways agency driving at 75mph, he knows what the speed limit is. Dom knew what the guidelines were and broke them many times. He broke quarantine and then made an unnecessary trip to the castle. His actions were calculated and the government response has been very carefully worded because they know how calculated everything is. His excuse for driving to the castle is completely laughable and your defence of him I'd both disappointing and predictable.Philip_Thompson said:
No. Even people who write rules can make errors in interpreting them. Errors of judgement are not a resigning matter.MaxPB said:
He wrote the lockdown rules and then broke them, it's a resigning matter. We're way beyond apologies.Philip_Thompson said:
I also said there should be an independent investigation too ...MaxPB said:
But you've been telling us for days that no rules were broken. Which is it?Philip_Thompson said:For a minor breach of rules a verbal warning is an appropriate sanction for an employee unless they're already on a verbal/written warning. It isn't Gross Misconduct.
There has been one. I'm happy to accept it's results. According to that I was right about the trip to Durham and wrong about Barnhard Castle. Fair enough.
Given the primary one of concern has been cleared of being a breach and the secondary one is minor then a warning and an apology would be appropriate in my eyes.
The Tory party is handing the 2024 election to Labour in defence of one person. You're losing millions of marginal voters over this and you just don't seem to care.0 -
When you’ve got low viral incidence in the population AND an effective track and trace system in place (both of which Guernsey has, no new cases for 28 days and zero known cases, and the U.K. equivalent of 35,000 tracers), then it makes sense - also enables opening up of some businesses that will otherwise remain closed. So some way off yet for the U.K. But Guernsey’s an island....Nigelb said:
But that is a country where the incidence of the virus is currently extremely low.CarlottaVance said:On social distancing:
There are plans for the Bailiwick to copy the example set by New Zealand, which uses physical distancing of two metres or one metre, depending on the circumstance.
Controlled environments in New Zealand such as school classrooms and workplaces use a one metre guideline, and other spaces such as on public transport use two metres.
The Director of Public Health, Dr Nicola Brink, explained the rationale.
‘Controlled circumstance is, for example, when you’re in a restaurant or a classroom and you know who everyone is in the classroom or restaurant and you can get contact details, so that if someone became ill we could contact trace very quickly, and for those circumstances we are recommending one metre. However, in more uncontrolled environments we are looking at two metres, for example that’s walking around a supermarket, where you could pass someone you don’t know and there’s not the same level of detail.
https://guernseypress.com/news/2020/05/28/plans-to-copy-new-zealand-social-distancing-measures/
If we were in that situation, opening up without the numbers going back up would be massively simpler.0 -
This (according to my friend at Imperial) is why they are trialling the 20 minute test. Because it doesn't involve a lab, the bureaucratic system has less to clutch onto.Nigelb said:Public-private partnership enabled Korea's COVID-19 response
https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/biz/2020/05/488_290279.html
...Mass testing played a crucial role. This was enabled by biotech firm Seegene, which used an artificial intelligence (AI) based big data system to design a COVID-19 diagnostic test utilizing genetic modeling without the need of a sample. The process took three weeks; developing the test using standard techniques would have taken an estimated two to three months.
The government cross-checked laboratory results and fast-tracked approval of the test kits to scale up testing capacity.
The government also launched drive-through testing at 96 locations in 23 days. The testing process was streamlined to take 15 minutes, and minimizes direct contact, as the driver did not have to leave the vehicle.
This enabled a testing capacity of 20,000 people a day. Drive-through testing also eliminated the need to decontaminate spaces between patients. Automated testing systems reduced the time to obtain results.
The time to complete a test was reduced from 24 hours, Feb. 10, to 6 hours by Feb. 27.
The government authorized the private sector to conduct testing after falling short of testing capacity during the 2015 MERS epidemic when only government entities could carry out tests. In the case of COVID-19, private laboratories provided 90 percent of the country's testing capacity.
The government also cut down contact-tracing time from 24 hours in early February to 10 minutes at the end of March by incorporating a digital surveillance system that gathered information from 28 public and private organizations, including the police, mobile carriers and credit card companies...
Three months later... I don't think Johnson has a clue what 'world beating' might entail.0 -
Surely it has to be at the low end. After three Cummings surely all that will be left is two puffs of air.DecrepiterJohnL said:Starsports traders have been brainstorming new markets, possibly in one of those pub gardens we read so much about.
Duration of Today's Briefing (From First to Last Word Spoken Including Q&A)
26 Mins or Less 16/1
26.01 - 30 mins 10/1
30.01 - 34 mins 6/1
34.01 - 38 mins 5/1
38.01 - 42 mins 6/1
42.01 - 46 mins 5/1
46.01 - 50 mins 7/1
50.01 - 54 mins 5/1
54.01 - 58 mins 5/1
58.01 - 62 mins 5/1
62.01 - 66 mins 6/1
66.01 mins or Longer 10/1
The Last Word
What Will Be the Last Word Spoken at Today's (Thursday) Briefing ?
Much 10/11
You 1/1
Goodbye 8/1
Today 8/1
All 16/1
Briefing 16/1
Safe 16/1
Conference 20/1
Soon 20/1
Alert 33/1
Others on Request --- Punters beware!!
Cummings Count
How Many Times Will the Word 'Cummings' be said in reference to Dominic Cummings at Today's Briefing ? (Q&A Counts)
Zero 'Cummings' 7/1
1 8/1
2 5/1
3 5/1
4 8/1
5 7/1
6 12/1
7 9/1
8 6/1
9 8/1
10 or More 'Cummings' 3/10 -
Would you believe it...0
-
-
Wait did Durham Police say he "did" break the rules on Barnhard Castle or he "might" have but it's minor? Those are two very different things.
Either way he's been cleared of the main accusation.1 -
I'm sure the Attorney General cares deeply indeed about what this anonymous random thinks about her.Scott_xP said:0 -
The Yoons.TGOHF666 said:"The first minister says: "I don't mind admitting to you that as we take these first steps I do feel a bit nervous."
Nervous she wont be on the tv every lunchtime..
Sturgeon must answer
also
Sturgeon must not answer if punters like those answers0 -
Yes, she was claiming he did beach the rules, the police are saying he might have done.Alistair said:So, we're their any factual inaccuracies in what maitlis said then?
https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/12659795610802462720 -
I've been saying since the start: You can drive to Durham. You risk a small fine. Weed is a bigger fine. Everyone smokes weed.Theuniondivvie said:I see we've moved rapidly from the 'he did nothing wrong' stage to the 'what he did wrong was minor' one. Prediction: uncontrolled foot stamping and 'but Emily Maitliss' next.
0 -
As I said when the PCC raised this with his force, this was not likely to work in the favour of the government's opponents.TGOHF666 said:1 -
The expression "worse than a crime - a blunder" is relevant here. Cummings looks stupid and incompetent and Johnson looks hopelessly out of his depth. This time last week they didn't, at least to me.1
-
Panic over. They are back.DecrepiterJohnL said:Starsports has just this minute suspended betting on Dominic Cummings. Has there been a development or did a punter want more than tuppence ha'penny on?
Will Cummings still be in position on 1st June?
PP/Betfair: 2/1 go, 1/3 stay
Ladbrokes: 5/2 go, 2/7 stay
Starsports: 85/40 go, 1/3 stay
0 -
Telegraph saysPhilip_Thompson said:Wait did Durham Police say he "did" break the rules on Barnhard Castle or he "might" have but it's minor? Those are two very different things.
Either way he's been cleared of the main accusation.
BREAKING: A Durham Police investigation has concluded that Dominic Cummings DID breach lockdown rules when he drove to Barnard Castle, the Telegraph has learned0 -
The point is the Police statement explains their action and reasons and frankly if you read them with an open mind why would anyone lose their job for a minor breach in the Police own wordsTheuniondivvie said:I see we've moved rapidly from the 'he did nothing wrong' stage to the 'what he did wrong was minor' one. Prediction: uncontrolled foot stamping and 'but Emily Maitliss' next.
I want Cummings gone but I am not part of a lynch mob0 -
MarqueeMark said:
Sorry, but that is so shallow!kinabalu said:
I change my mind sometimes based on here. In particular, if somebody who is in my Bad Books says they like something that I happen to also like, I will if at all possible stop liking it. This has happened on numerous occasions.Nigel_Foremain said:
How many minds do you think you have changed on here lol?! People come on here to rant, vent and perhaps to wind up those that have ridiculous views. Every now and again there is an informative post, that informs (maybe shifts opinion a little) but rarely genuinely changes the minds of those with entrenched positions.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You are possessed.Scott_xP said:
You need to realise your constant negative posting is not going to change a single mind on here.
It is. I fully accept this. Thankfully (with about half a dozen dishonourable exceptions) nobody is ever permanently in my Bad Books. They go in for something, serve their time, then if no further mishaps they come out again.0 -
Only if you're vindictive. If the rule isn't clear and the breach is minor then clear it up for next time.MaxPB said:
Yes they are. It's like the head of the highways agency driving at 75mph, he knows what the speed limit is. Dom knew what the guidelines were and broke them many times. He broke quarantine and then made an unnecessary trip to the castle. His actions were calculated and the government response has been very carefully worded because they know how calculated everything is. His excuse for driving to the castle is completely laughable and your defence of him I'd both disappointing and predictable.Philip_Thompson said:
No. Even people who write rules can make errors in interpreting them. Errors of judgement are not a resigning matter.MaxPB said:
He wrote the lockdown rules and then broke them, it's a resigning matter. We're way beyond apologies.Philip_Thompson said:
I also said there should be an independent investigation too ...MaxPB said:
But you've been telling us for days that no rules were broken. Which is it?Philip_Thompson said:For a minor breach of rules a verbal warning is an appropriate sanction for an employee unless they're already on a verbal/written warning. It isn't Gross Misconduct.
There has been one. I'm happy to accept it's results. According to that I was right about the trip to Durham and wrong about Barnhard Castle. Fair enough.
Given the primary one of concern has been cleared of being a breach and the secondary one is minor then a warning and an apology would be appropriate in my eyes.
The Tory party is handing the 2024 election to Labour in defence of one person. You're losing millions of marginal voters over this and you just don't seem to care.1 -
Free money there.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Panic over. They are back.DecrepiterJohnL said:Starsports has just this minute suspended betting on Dominic Cummings. Has there been a development or did a punter want more than tuppence ha'penny on?
Will Cummings still be in position on 1st June?
PP/Betfair: 2/1 go, 1/3 stay
Ladbrokes: 5/2 go, 2/7 stay
Starsports: 85/40 go, 1/3 stay1 -
I don't see how a police force can condone somebody driving 30 miles to see if they can see properly.0
-
The BBC quote says "might have".bigjohnowls said:
Telegraph saysPhilip_Thompson said:Wait did Durham Police say he "did" break the rules on Barnhard Castle or he "might" have but it's minor? Those are two very different things.
Either way he's been cleared of the main accusation.
BREAKING: A Durham Police investigation has concluded that Dominic Cummings DID breach lockdown rules when he drove to Barnard Castle, the Telegraph has learned 0 -
Everything pinned on “trip to Durham” with the birthday eye test drive to Barnard Castle ignored.Scott_xP said:
0 -
0
-
He had a good reason to drive to BC. It was his wife's birthday.Scott_xP said:0 -
If his job is to help ensure the government can execute its strategy, and he becomes a barrier to its successful execution, surely it's his duty to go?Big_G_NorthWales said:
The point is the Police statement explains their action and reasons and frankly if you read them with an open mind why would anyone lose their job for a minor breach in the Police own wordsTheuniondivvie said:I see we've moved rapidly from the 'he did nothing wrong' stage to the 'what he did wrong was minor' one. Prediction: uncontrolled foot stamping and 'but Emily Maitliss' next.
I want Cummings gone but I am not part of a lynch mob0
