politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Polling analysis: Those firms that don’t prompt for the Gre
Comments
-
Merry Christmas!!dyedwoolie said:Daemon barber has it nailed.
To take the example of Christianity (for so I was raised), and to review the conversation in the pub the other night. Am I truly expected accept that I have free will, which I never asked for and existence I never craved which must be spent in a world full of injustice, disease and destruction with a personal fight against mental illness and watching those I love, friends, family and acquaintances fight their own battles, with the associated trauma and tragedy of life, only at the end of it to be expected to bow my knee in front of the creator of this chaos, sacrifice my free will, apologise for my 'sins' and spend eternity in slavery to a psychopath?
No thanks.0 -
Then it's difficult to find fault, given that not believing in some afterlife eternity or rebirth is more evident of a lack of religious belief, than of it.HurstLlama said:
I am not sure that there is a paradise to go to after death therefore I cannot believe that all humans live equally in it.dyedwoolie said:
Do you believe that all humans live equally in paradise after death?HurstLlama said:
Taoist wing of the Church of England's Oxford movement myself. Just a bit surprised to find out this morning that I am a wicked person who goes round demonising others (according to Mr Woolie) and, even worse, according to Mr. Fett I "hate, maim and kill others" (I am sure I don't, I would have noticed and Mrs Llama would have complained about the blood stains on my laundry).Smarmeron said:@HurstLlama
I am a Zen Buddhist Christian with pagan leanings.
I am basing my hope of salvation of Him/Her/It/Them having a bloody good sense of humour0 -
The King James Authorised must be one of the best works in the English Language.ToryJim said:
Oh the bible has been beautifully rendered into English and is full of juicy stuff.TheScreamingEagles said:As someone who is an agnostic, but raised by religious parents, I do like The Bible.
What's not to like about a book which features lines like
"There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses." - Ezekiel 23:20
and
"Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love." Proverbs 5:190 -
Kippers are religious we worship at the altar of St NigeTheScreamingEagles said:
Because winding up Kippers is much more fun than winding up religious people.isam said:Given how everyone seems to hate religion here, why arent they all criticising those running the mosque that pretends to be a shop in Cricklewood, and supporting the German UKIP candidate, married to a Sri Lankan, who complained to the council about it and ended up being called racist in The Guardian?
0 -
Beware the false idle....isam said:
Kippers are religious we worship at the altar of St NigeTheScreamingEagles said:
Because winding up Kippers is much more fun than winding up religious people.isam said:Given how everyone seems to hate religion here, why arent they all criticising those running the mosque that pretends to be a shop in Cricklewood, and supporting the German UKIP candidate, married to a Sri Lankan, who complained to the council about it and ended up being called racist in The Guardian?
0 -
Andeth Nigel cameth down the mountain and declaredMarqueeMark said:
Beware the false idle....isam said:
Kippers are religious we worship at the altar of St NigeTheScreamingEagles said:
Because winding up Kippers is much more fun than winding up religious people.isam said:Given how everyone seems to hate religion here, why arent they all criticising those running the mosque that pretends to be a shop in Cricklewood, and supporting the German UKIP candidate, married to a Sri Lankan, who complained to the council about it and ended up being called racist in The Guardian?
1) Thou shalt not steal British jobs
2) to 10) anybody?0 -
Fascinating that 4/5ths of outstanding loan money is owed by Labour.anotherDave said:
Electoral Commission details.ToryJim said:The low down on quarterly donations. Tories outstripping Labour comfortably. I wonder how UKIPs clear lack of financial firepower will impact on their ability to fight the next election as it suggests they will have to backload their campaign as they won't be able to keep up with the capability of the main contenders.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27425997
http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/find-information-by-subject/political-parties-campaigning-and-donations/donations-and-loans-to-political-parties/quarterly-donations-and-loans0 -
What disturbs me about cases such as that poor sudanese woman is the lack of any reaction by the so-called 'moderate' muslims. Why isn't Sudan being harangued from all corners of the Islamic world for dragging its religion through the mud?
The trojan horse plot in Britain is another example of the silence of the so called 'moderates'. Where were the 'vast majority of ordinary muslims' when Islamists were running riot in the schools of their own children, imposing medieval and illegal practices upon them?
Either moderates don;t actually exist or they are a bunch of gutless cowards.0 -
He's not the Messiah....isam said:
Kippers are religious we worship at the altar of St NigeTheScreamingEagles said:
Because winding up Kippers is much more fun than winding up religious people.isam said:Given how everyone seems to hate religion here, why arent they all criticising those running the mosque that pretends to be a shop in Cricklewood, and supporting the German UKIP candidate, married to a Sri Lankan, who complained to the council about it and ended up being called racist in The Guardian?
0 -
Does that mean I am not a wicked person after all, even though I have religious beliefs and am a church-goer?dyedwoolie said:
Then it's difficult to find fault, given that not believing in some afterlife eternity or rebirth is more evident of a lack of religious belief, than of it.HurstLlama said:
I am not sure that there is a paradise to go to after death therefore I cannot believe that all humans live equally in it.dyedwoolie said:
Do you believe that all humans live equally in paradise after death?HurstLlama said:
Taoist wing of the Church of England's Oxford movement myself. Just a bit surprised to find out this morning that I am a wicked person who goes round demonising others (according to Mr Woolie) and, even worse, according to Mr. Fett I "hate, maim and kill others" (I am sure I don't, I would have noticed and Mrs Llama would have complained about the blood stains on my laundry).Smarmeron said:@HurstLlama
I am a Zen Buddhist Christian with pagan leanings.
I am basing my hope of salvation of Him/Her/It/Them having a bloody good sense of humour0 -
Not really.BobaFett said:I see the Tories have already won according to Gin!
I think Labour is heading for defeat (hard to deduce anything else given how shockingly terrible Ed's personal ratings have now become and the drop in Labour's polling position that has been going in since early 2013 and will almost certainly continue until polling day) but I still think the Tories will fall short of a majority. Would need to see more polls giving the Conservatives a lead before I'd go for a Con majority with any conviction.
My estimate is still as it's been since mid 2013, Conservative's win national share of the vote and most seats, but fall short of an overall majority again, which means a probable continuation of coalition government or minority administration.
0 -
Clearly you have free will, or you wouldn't be able to make that decision.dyedwoolie said:Daemon barber has it nailed.
To take the example of Christianity (for so I was raised), and to review the conversation in the pub the other night. Am I truly expected accept that I have free will, which I never asked for and existence I never craved which must be spent in a world full of injustice, disease and destruction with a personal fight against mental illness and watching those I love, friends, family and acquaintances fight their own battles, with the associated trauma and tragedy of life, only at the end of it to be expected to bow my knee in front of the creator of this chaos, sacrifice my free will, apologise for my 'sins' and spend eternity in slavery to a psychopath?
No thanks.
If God was a psychopath, he wouldn't need your permission to make you a slave.
And almost all harm on this planet is one person's evil on another.
0 -
He should be crucified thoughTheScreamingEagles said:
He's not the Messiah....isam said:
Kippers are religious we worship at the altar of St NigeTheScreamingEagles said:
Because winding up Kippers is much more fun than winding up religious people.isam said:Given how everyone seems to hate religion here, why arent they all criticising those running the mosque that pretends to be a shop in Cricklewood, and supporting the German UKIP candidate, married to a Sri Lankan, who complained to the council about it and ended up being called racist in The Guardian?
*
*entirely in the metaphoric sense.0 -
Alas French culture is not what it is today!SeanT said:Of course there's a God.
I just got an unexpected royalty cheque from France.
Also, this:
http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/img_fullsize/70881.jpg
Uragh stone circle, County Galway, which I visited last month. God is there. Go see.0 -
In the standard, the best liked comments below that UKIP councillor report are those wholeheartedly agreeing with him.0
-
Is there a ‘Godwin’s Law’ that states every discourse on Religion ends up quoting M, Python?0
-
@SeanT - "Is this global model sustainable? Surely not. Yet there is nothing to replace it, socialism has calamitously failed whenever it has been tried."
I don't think it is sustainable, except with water cannons and other forms of repressive control, and even that is only a stop-gap. Socialism is doomed to fail, because if it is imposed it is not socialism, and it cannot be tried without it being imposed. Capitalism is clearly the way forward. The argument is about the kind of capitalism that works best. I believe a level of state intervention in terms of market regulation and wealth redistribution is both necessary and desirable. And I just do not understand why those with extreme wealth spend so much of their time hoarding money they will never need or use, and keeping it from the taxman, who might be able to do something positive with it. Yes, the state some times does know better how to spend people's money than they do themselves. In the end, such greed - I can think of no other word - is going to be the undoing of the super wealthy. They are their own worst enemies.0 -
Iain Martin asks why the Nats are so nasty.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/iainmartin1/100271611/why-are-alex-salmonds-scottish-nationalists-being-so-nasty-and-negative/0 -
I don't believe in God. He was a device invented by the Devil to inspire people to do untold evil....0
-
The London-only polls have UKIP >20% for the EU Parliament election.taffys said:In the standard, the best liked comments below that UKIP councillor report are those wholeheartedly agreeing with him.
0 -
2) thou shalt not covet another man's sofastate_go_away said:
Andeth Nigel cameth down the mountain and declaredMarqueeMark said:
Beware the false idle....isam said:
Kippers are religious we worship at the altar of St NigeTheScreamingEagles said:
Because winding up Kippers is much more fun than winding up religious people.isam said:Given how everyone seems to hate religion here, why arent they all criticising those running the mosque that pretends to be a shop in Cricklewood, and supporting the German UKIP candidate, married to a Sri Lankan, who complained to the council about it and ended up being called racist in The Guardian?
1) Thou shalt not steal British jobs
2) to 10) anybody?0 -
Add to a small number of extremists on one side a lack of criticism from "neutrals" and you have the recipe for trouble. That is why we have far right groups fixated on all muslims, when it is only a small amount that are extreme.. We have seen it on this thread. Whenever we see Islamic terrorism, "moderates" would rather say nothing because criticism would been having to briefly agree with people with views they generally, correctly despise. Rather than do that they do nothing, and hope it will go away. But the problem is, their silence breeds anxiety and frustration from well meaning people who arent extremists, and the extremists tap into thattaffys said:What disturbs me about cases such as that poor sudanese woman is the lack of any reaction by the so-called 'moderate' muslims. Why isn't Sudan being harangued from all corners of the Islamic world for dragging its religion through the mud?
The trojan horse plot in Britain is another example of the silence of the so called 'moderates'. Where were the 'vast majority of ordinary muslims' when Islamists were running riot in the schools of their own children, imposing medieval and illegal practices upon them?
Either moderates don;t actually exist or they are a bunch of gutless cowards.0 -
@SouthamObserver
They hoard money because it is one of the "chips" in the game. The problem for me is the playing pieces are people and the world0 -
3) thou shalt clean behind the fridgeBobaFett said:
2) thou shalt not covet another man's sofastate_go_away said:
Andeth Nigel cameth down the mountain and declaredMarqueeMark said:
Beware the false idle....isam said:
Kippers are religious we worship at the altar of St NigeTheScreamingEagles said:
Because winding up Kippers is much more fun than winding up religious people.isam said:Given how everyone seems to hate religion here, why arent they all criticising those running the mosque that pretends to be a shop in Cricklewood, and supporting the German UKIP candidate, married to a Sri Lankan, who complained to the council about it and ended up being called racist in The Guardian?
1) Thou shalt not steal British jobs
2) to 10) anybody?
0 -
Apropos of nothing, my dog has just polished off a bowl of tomato soup. He now has an orange beard - he looks like an aged Bengali gent.....0
-
The other interesting thing I learned about in Hong Kong is just how desperate the rich are to get themselves and their money out of China. Emigration among the wealthy is very widespread and those that do not emigrate make sure that they invest their cash abroad. It's not exactly a vote of confidence in the country's future. But if you had the chance to get your capital out you'd be mad not to take it. The state could change the rules at any time, corruption is rife, the economy is not built on solid foundations, the lower classes (for want of a better word) are becoming more assertive. And so on. Good news for London property owners - as the ads in the Hong Kong papers show.0
-
Amazing how PB can sometimes get fixated on the real big issues of religion ,socialism and capitalism and next thread be talking about did a politician say 'pleb' or not?
Great!!0 -
0
-
I'm not sure if this is enough to be considered a "moderate", but you can see what share of Muslims oppose death for apostasy in various countries in page 219:taffys said:What disturbs me about cases such as that poor sudanese woman is the lack of any reaction by the so-called 'moderate' muslims. Why isn't Sudan being harangued from all corners of the Islamic world for dragging its religion through the mud?
The trojan horse plot in Britain is another example of the silence of the so called 'moderates'. Where were the 'vast majority of ordinary muslims' when Islamists were running riot in the schools of their own children, imposing medieval and illegal practices upon them?
Either moderates don't actually exist or they are a bunch of gutless cowards.
http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/04/worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf
Most oppose, except for the Middle East and south Asia (notably Pakistan - one of the most populous Muslim nations). Malaysia is an unexpected one.0 -
The Fridge Inspectorate. It is how UKIP will get the long-term unemployed back to work....Smarmeron said:@MarqueeMark
"3) thou shalt clean behind the fridge"
That's my chance of sainthood blown!0 -
You're absolutely right SeanT; the difference is amazing. Like you I've just come back from LoS, staying with relatives. They live in a very nice gated estate, with some obviously very expensive houses, much more expensive than theirs! Which, IMHO was expensive enough!SeanT said:
Thailand is the oddest place, right now. This afternoon I visited a new shopping mall - Central Embassy - it was literally the plushest shopping mall I have ever seen, anywhere, including Monaco, London, Singapore, Dubai, Manhattan - just incredibly luxurious.DaemonBarber said:
Dont't google Baccara Bar in the office - NSFW.SeanT said:Yeah, but I'm going to PARADISE, by way of Baccara bar, tonight.
http://www.centralembassy.com/
Every single shop is a top end designer outlet. The place is full of beautiful slender Chinese Thai hi-so girls in their stillettos. They've reconstructed a Thai food street market in the basement, only the street food is practically Michelin starred.
It's aimed at that 2% of Thais who are wealthy beyond day dreams: it is staffed by working class kids earning $10 a day.
Five miles away the bombs are going off, as civil war edges nearer. Yet the hi-so girls keep buying their $3000 handbags.
http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-05-15/two-dead-at-bangkok-protest-site-after-explosion/
Tick tock, tick tock.
Yet within 500m or so things are entirely different.
Walking 50m from the shopping centres one comes to an entirely different world.
While I was there, went to a Thai Premier League football match. Costs of everything was very significantly lower than the same thing at a lower league British game, let alone Premier League.0 -
I'm not sure if this is enough to be considered a "moderate", but you can see what share of Muslims oppose death for apostasy in various countries in page 219:
Interesting. I wonder what proportion of muslims support 'no punishment whatsoever' for leaving the religion?
0 -
God help us.MarqueeMark said:
The Fridge Inspectorate. It is how UKIP will get the long-term unemployed back to work....Smarmeron said:@MarqueeMark
"3) thou shalt clean behind the fridge"
That's my chance of sainthood blown!0 -
2/ Thou shalt repaint all thy trains in traditional coloursstate_go_away said:
Andeth Nigel cameth down the mountain and declaredMarqueeMark said:
Beware the false idle....isam said:
Kippers are religious we worship at the altar of St NigeTheScreamingEagles said:
Because winding up Kippers is much more fun than winding up religious people.isam said:Given how everyone seems to hate religion here, why arent they all criticising those running the mosque that pretends to be a shop in Cricklewood, and supporting the German UKIP candidate, married to a Sri Lankan, who complained to the council about it and ended up being called racist in The Guardian?
1) Thou shalt not steal British jobs
2) to 10) anybody?
3/ Thou shalt ordain that all thine cab drivers wear uniforms
4/ Thou shalt campaign for high speed train links
5/ When not elected thou shalt instead oppose such links
6/ Thou shalt fiddle thine expenses and get thyself sent to jail more frequently than the unbelievers
7/ Thou shalt condemn lifters, who are hateful in the eyes of St Nige and who cause floods
8/ Thou shalt welcome Neil "Cash for questions" Hamilton to the fold especially in view of his expertise in the realm of the aforesaid 6/ above
9/ Thou shalt fail to notice when thou art being trolled and instead respond at tedious length
10/ Thou shalt bugger up the comments section of the Telegraph and make it bastarding unreadable
11/ Thou shalt wear a blazer. Sandals optional but always with socks
12/ Thou shalt have no truck with false gods such as Mike Nattrass. Splitter
13/ ...that'll do
-1 -
Nice to see the national stadium and the national team shirts being sponsored by a great British company ! The British Telecom Murrayfield stadium has a nice ring to it..
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby/latest/bt-land-murrayfield-naming-rights-in-20m-deal-1-3411756
0 -
Tut tut, this shows a distressing lack of political understanding.MarqueeMark said:3) thou shalt clean behind the fridge
It should of course be: "Thou shalt instruct thy wife to clean behind the fridge".0 -
Were you tempted to nick any of the filth verbatim from The White Hotel, as a family postmodern joke?SeanT said:
The royalty cheque was for a porn novel I wrote a while back, in about a month. Silly bit of fluff but it made stupidly nice money. I spent it on go go dancers, it was practically a contractual obligation.state_go_away said:
Alas French culture is not what it is today!SeanT said:Of course there's a God.
I just got an unexpected royalty cheque from France.
Also, this:
http://www.themodernantiquarian.com/img_fullsize/70881.jpg
Uragh stone circle, County Galway, which I visited last month. God is there. Go see.
That said, the French are the experts at literary porn - Batailles, Reage, et al - so this royalty cheque is unusually flattering. Such a refined people, the French.0 -
Thou shall not covet thy neighbour's party name.0
-
@BJB - (9) Careful Mr Bond – Isam will activate the ‘smite’ button on his keyboard. ; )0
-
Mr Bond. Number 9 is brilliant.0
-
LoS?OldKingCole said:
You're absolutely right SeanT; the difference is amazing. Like you I've just come back from LoS, staying with relatives. They live in a very nice gated estate, with some obviously very expensive houses, much more expensive than theirs! Which, IMHO was expensive enough!SeanT said:
Thailand is the oddest place, right now. This afternoon I visited a new shopping mall - Central Embassy - it was literally the plushest shopping mall I have ever seen, anywhere, including Monaco, London, Singapore, Dubai, Manhattan - just incredibly luxurious.DaemonBarber said:
Dont't google Baccara Bar in the office - NSFW.SeanT said:Yeah, but I'm going to PARADISE, by way of Baccara bar, tonight.
http://www.centralembassy.com/
Every single shop is a top end designer outlet. The place is full of beautiful slender Chinese Thai hi-so girls in their stillettos. They've reconstructed a Thai food street market in the basement, only the street food is practically Michelin starred.
It's aimed at that 2% of Thais who are wealthy beyond day dreams: it is staffed by working class kids earning $10 a day.
Five miles away the bombs are going off, as civil war edges nearer. Yet the hi-so girls keep buying their $3000 handbags.
http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-05-15/two-dead-at-bangkok-protest-site-after-explosion/
Tick tock, tick tock.
Yet within 500m or so things are entirely different.
Walking 50m from the shopping centres one comes to an entirely different world.
While I was there, went to a Thai Premier League football match. Costs of everything was very significantly lower than the same thing at a lower league British game, let alone Premier League.
Leigh-on-Sea?
Is it that bad?0 -
4) thou shalt not take the name of Super Mario in vain0
-
Tell that to the hundreds of thousands that died on Boxing Day 2005, or in the Haiti Earthquake, or every day from cancer, disease and the ravages of existence.Next said:
Clearly you have free will, or you wouldn't be able to make that decision.dyedwoolie said:Daemon barber has it nailed.
To take the example of Christianity (for so I was raised), and to review the conversation in the pub the other night. Am I truly expected accept that I have free will, which I never asked for and existence I never craved which must be spent in a world full of injustice, disease and destruction with a personal fight against mental illness and watching those I love, friends, family and acquaintances fight their own battles, with the associated trauma and tragedy of life, only at the end of it to be expected to bow my knee in front of the creator of this chaos, sacrifice my free will, apologise for my 'sins' and spend eternity in slavery to a psychopath?
No thanks.
If God was a psychopath, he wouldn't need your permission to make you a slave.
And almost all harm on this planet is one person's evil on another.
The harm I have suffered personally through mental illness is certainly not one persons evil on another, nor are the series of debilitating strokes that struck down my Nan, or the cancer that is taking my Uncle and has taken another already.
If He exists, he can get on his knees and beg my forgiveness.
0 -
I see the predictable consequences of the "right to be forgotten" are emerging.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-27423527
0 -
Women's Minister Should Apologise for her Offensive 'Rapist' Tweet
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/05/15/Nicky-Morgan-should-apologise-for-bullying-Austin-Mitchell-over-his-harmless-rapist-tweet0 -
I've come to inspect the back of your fridge sounds like the worst euphemism ever.
Although it could be the opening scene to a few pornos0 -
Ah, I spot a fellow Essex ManBond_James_Bond said:
LoS?OldKingCole said:
You're absolutely right SeanT; the difference is amazing. Like you I've just come back from LoS, staying with relatives. They live in a very nice gated estate, with some obviously very expensive houses, much more expensive than theirs! Which, IMHO was expensive enough!SeanT said:
Thailand is the oddest place, right now. This afternoon I visited a new shopping mall - Central Embassy - it was literally the plushest shopping mall I have ever seen, anywhere, including Monaco, London, Singapore, Dubai, Manhattan - just incredibly luxurious.DaemonBarber said:
Dont't google Baccara Bar in the office - NSFW.SeanT said:Yeah, but I'm going to PARADISE, by way of Baccara bar, tonight.
http://www.centralembassy.com/
Every single shop is a top end designer outlet. The place is full of beautiful slender Chinese Thai hi-so girls in their stillettos. They've reconstructed a Thai food street market in the basement, only the street food is practically Michelin starred.
It's aimed at that 2% of Thais who are wealthy beyond day dreams: it is staffed by working class kids earning $10 a day.
Five miles away the bombs are going off, as civil war edges nearer. Yet the hi-so girls keep buying their $3000 handbags.
http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-05-15/two-dead-at-bangkok-protest-site-after-explosion/
Tick tock, tick tock.
Yet within 500m or so things are entirely different.
Walking 50m from the shopping centres one comes to an entirely different world.
While I was there, went to a Thai Premier League football match. Costs of everything was very significantly lower than the same thing at a lower league British game, let alone Premier League.
Leigh-on-Sea?
Is it that bad?
The -on-Sea part of Leigh is fine; it's the estates to the N which make one worry.
But no, LoS is a traditional acronym for Thailand ..... Land of Smiles.0 -
You don't have religious belief, you don't believe in immortality, afterlife or rebirth. You just have an ethical code and a club to attend on a Sunday. That ethical code is subject to debate, as are all.HurstLlama said:
Does that mean I am not a wicked person after all, even though I have religious beliefs and am a church-goer?dyedwoolie said:
Then it's difficult to find fault, given that not believing in some afterlife eternity or rebirth is more evident of a lack of religious belief, than of it.HurstLlama said:
I am not sure that there is a paradise to go to after death therefore I cannot believe that all humans live equally in it.dyedwoolie said:
Do you believe that all humans live equally in paradise after death?HurstLlama said:
Taoist wing of the Church of England's Oxford movement myself. Just a bit surprised to find out this morning that I am a wicked person who goes round demonising others (according to Mr Woolie) and, even worse, according to Mr. Fett I "hate, maim and kill others" (I am sure I don't, I would have noticed and Mrs Llama would have complained about the blood stains on my laundry).Smarmeron said:@HurstLlama
I am a Zen Buddhist Christian with pagan leanings.
I am basing my hope of salvation of Him/Her/It/Them having a bloody good sense of humour
In terms of wickedness, I said religious faith is a wickedness, not the individual. The same way dropping a packet of chips on the floor and leaving it is a wickedness. The individual is not wicked unless their religion defines them totally, in which case they are, by my definition, wicked. Not to mention ridiculously naive.
0 -
Quite. Even if we accept that God exists, there is nothing remotely worthy of worship about it.dyedwoolie said:Daemon barber has it nailed.
To take the example of Christianity (for so I was raised), and to review the conversation in the pub the other night. Am I truly expected accept that I have free will, which I never asked for and existence I never craved which must be spent in a world full of injustice, disease and destruction with a personal fight against mental illness and watching those I love, friends, family and acquaintances fight their own battles, with the associated trauma and tragedy of life, only at the end of it to be expected to bow my knee in front of the creator of this chaos, sacrifice my free will, apologise for my 'sins' and spend eternity in slavery to a psychopath?
No thanks.
So the fact that we have free will is proof that god exists is it?Next said:
Clearly you have free will, or you wouldn't be able to make that decision.dyedwoolie said:Daemon barber has it nailed.
To take the example of Christianity (for so I was raised), and to review the conversation in the pub the other night. Am I truly expected accept that I have free will, which I never asked for and existence I never craved which must be spent in a world full of injustice, disease and destruction with a personal fight against mental illness and watching those I love, friends, family and acquaintances fight their own battles, with the associated trauma and tragedy of life, only at the end of it to be expected to bow my knee in front of the creator of this chaos, sacrifice my free will, apologise for my 'sins' and spend eternity in slavery to a psychopath?
No thanks.
If God was a psychopath, he wouldn't need your permission to make you a slave.
And almost all harm on this planet is one person's evil on another.
0 -
Mr Woolie,
I always thought that one of the biggest sins is pride. Pride is good when it's a consequence of doing something useful to yourself or others. But pride is the catalyst for much evil. I know better than you, you're inferior to me, I can do what I like because I'm special.
And this is the pride that Daemon Barber exhibits. I don't need no one ever - I'll do it my way, because no one knows as much as I do. The trait of dictators.
And all that evil and injustice in the world is down to a sky fairy, so I'll not believe in it - I'm not that gullible. Nothing to do with humans with an excess of pride condemning others.
It's all very impressive when you consider that we live for a gnat's breath, know nothing about the world or world's outside our tiny vision, and only see that with senses that were evolved for life on a totally untypical planet. Yet we're allowed to search, discover and reach out despite being insects in a cosmic universe.
Still, we know for certain, when we cannot explain infinity or even comprehend an edge to the universe. That's all there is - job done. But what's outside that? There's no outside cos I say so. And if you don't believe that, it's your fault and you're a fool.
One of the Gospels says "Judge not, that ye be not judged." Yet organised religion does - because it is composed of human with pride who say I know the mind of God and I know if He exists. Atheists say ... I know that God doesn't exist because if I can't believe in him, he can't do. And if I know that, I'm very impressive, aren't I? And therefore I cannot be convinced, so there's no point trying.
Anyway, more constructive things await. The lawn won't cut itself.
0 -
At 75 I offered to swap with my 49 year old daughter, who was dying of MND. God didn't listen though. As usual.dyedwoolie said:
Tell that to the hundreds of thousands that died on Boxing Day 2005, or in the Haiti Earthquake, or every day from cancer, disease and the ravages of existence.Next said:
Clearly you have free will, or you wouldn't be able to make that decision.dyedwoolie said:Daemon barber has it nailed.
To take the example of Christianity (for so I was raised), and to review the conversation in the pub the other night. Am I truly expected accept that I have free will, which I never asked for and existence I never craved which must be spent in a world full of injustice, disease and destruction with a personal fight against mental illness and watching those I love, friends, family and acquaintances fight their own battles, with the associated trauma and tragedy of life, only at the end of it to be expected to bow my knee in front of the creator of this chaos, sacrifice my free will, apologise for my 'sins' and spend eternity in slavery to a psychopath?
No thanks.
If God was a psychopath, he wouldn't need your permission to make you a slave.
And almost all harm on this planet is one person's evil on another.
The harm I have suffered personally through mental illness is certainly not one persons evil on another, nor are the series of debilitating strokes that struck down my Nan, or the cancer that is taking my Uncle and has taken another already.
If He exists, he can get on his knees and beg my forgiveness.0 -
The Greens will have one gain in Kirklees - they will take the final seat in Kirkburton from the Conservatives.MarkSenior said:
No they cannot , they only have 5 councillors now and even if they won every ward this year they would not be the largest party . I doubt that they will even have 10 councillors after this year's electionsTheScreamingEagles said:
They could be the largest party on KirkleesSandyRentool said:Did the Greens do unusually well in the council elections last time they coincided with the Euros?
Green gains on Kirklees? Wor lass would be pleased!0 -
Oh yawn another Delingpole special.isam said:Women's Minister Should Apologise for her Offensive 'Rapist' Tweet
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/05/15/Nicky-Morgan-should-apologise-for-bullying-Austin-Mitchell-over-his-harmless-rapist-tweet
0 -
I'll let history judge me, and my part in the memories of those I have interacted with.CD13 said:Mr Woolie,
I always thought that one of the biggest sins is pride. Pride is good when it's a consequence of doing something useful to yourself or others. But pride is the catalyst for much evil. I know better than you, you're inferior to me, I can do what I like because I'm special.
And this is the pride that Daemon Barber exhibits. I don't need no one ever - I'll do it my way, because no one knows as much as I do. The trait of dictators.
And all that evil and injustice in the world is down to a sky fairy, so I'll not believe in it - I'm not that gullible. Nothing to do with humans with an excess of pride condemning others.
It's all very impressive when you consider that we live for a gnat's breath, know nothing about the world or world's outside our tiny vision, and only see that with senses that were evolved for life on a totally untypical planet. Yet we're allowed to search, discover and reach out despite being insects in a cosmic universe.
Still, we know for certain, when we cannot explain infinity or even comprehend an edge to the universe. That's all there is - job done. But what's outside that? There's no outside cos I say so. And if you don't believe that, it's your fault and you're a fool.
One of the Gospels says "Judge not, that ye be not judged." Yet organised religion does - because it is composed of human with pride who say I know the mind of God and I know if He exists. Atheists say ... I know that God doesn't exist because if I can't believe in him, he can't do. And if I know that, I'm very impressive, aren't I? And therefore I cannot be convinced, so there's no point trying.
Anyway, more constructive things await. The lawn won't cut itself.
And why should we all not be proud? We are all infinite, indestructible. We have always, and will always exist, only for this brief time do we have (as far as we know) comprehension of it.
We should be proud and defiant, and magnificent, not small, and mean and hateful, justifying our sickness with faith.
Here endeth the lecture, may whatever God you believe in have mercy on your soul.0 -
I know people who have suffered worse than that, and been brought to a stronger faith in God.OldKingCole said:
At 75 I offered to swap with my 49 year old daughter, who was dying of MND. God didn't listen though. As usual.dyedwoolie said:
Tell that to the hundreds of thousands that died on Boxing Day 2005, or in the Haiti Earthquake, or every day from cancer, disease and the ravages of existence.Next said:
Clearly you have free will, or you wouldn't be able to make that decision.dyedwoolie said:Daemon barber has it nailed.
To take the example of Christianity (for so I was raised), and to review the conversation in the pub the other night. Am I truly expected accept that I have free will, which I never asked for and existence I never craved which must be spent in a world full of injustice, disease and destruction with a personal fight against mental illness and watching those I love, friends, family and acquaintances fight their own battles, with the associated trauma and tragedy of life, only at the end of it to be expected to bow my knee in front of the creator of this chaos, sacrifice my free will, apologise for my 'sins' and spend eternity in slavery to a psychopath?
No thanks.
If God was a psychopath, he wouldn't need your permission to make you a slave.
And almost all harm on this planet is one person's evil on another.
The harm I have suffered personally through mental illness is certainly not one persons evil on another, nor are the series of debilitating strokes that struck down my Nan, or the cancer that is taking my Uncle and has taken another already.
If He exists, he can get on his knees and beg my forgiveness.
And people who have suffered far less, and blame God for it all without even believing in him.
0 -
'Bullying Austin Mitchell'. What a joke.isam said:Women's Minister Should Apologise for her Offensive 'Rapist' Tweet
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/05/15/Nicky-Morgan-should-apologise-for-bullying-Austin-Mitchell-over-his-harmless-rapist-tweet
Delingpole forgot to slip in 'frail' and 'seventy nine year old' for added effect.
0 -
I'm sorry. We live in an imperfect world. It isn't fair, it just is I'm afraid.OldKingCole said:
At 75 I offered to swap with my 49 year old daughter, who was dying of MND. God didn't listen though. As usual.dyedwoolie said:
Tell that to the hundreds of thousands that died on Boxing Day 2005, or in the Haiti Earthquake, or every day from cancer, disease and the ravages of existence.Next said:
Clearly you have free will, or you wouldn't be able to make that decision.dyedwoolie said:Daemon barber has it nailed.
To take the example of Christianity (for so I was raised), and to review the conversation in the pub the other night. Am I truly expected accept that I have free will, which I never asked for and existence I never craved which must be spent in a world full of injustice, disease and destruction with a personal fight against mental illness and watching those I love, friends, family and acquaintances fight their own battles, with the associated trauma and tragedy of life, only at the end of it to be expected to bow my knee in front of the creator of this chaos, sacrifice my free will, apologise for my 'sins' and spend eternity in slavery to a psychopath?
No thanks.
If God was a psychopath, he wouldn't need your permission to make you a slave.
And almost all harm on this planet is one person's evil on another.
The harm I have suffered personally through mental illness is certainly not one persons evil on another, nor are the series of debilitating strokes that struck down my Nan, or the cancer that is taking my Uncle and has taken another already.
If He exists, he can get on his knees and beg my forgiveness.0 -
@OldKingCole
That sort of thing can make you bitter, or try to make things better for another unfortunate in a similar situation.
God or no God, atheist or believer........we all know what the right choice is.....often we fail though.0 -
Yes , will take them to 6 councillorsslade said:
The Greens will have one gain in Kirklees - they will take the final seat in Kirkburton from the Conservatives.MarkSenior said:
No they cannot , they only have 5 councillors now and even if they won every ward this year they would not be the largest party . I doubt that they will even have 10 councillors after this year's electionsTheScreamingEagles said:
They could be the largest party on KirkleesSandyRentool said:Did the Greens do unusually well in the council elections last time they coincided with the Euros?
Green gains on Kirklees? Wor lass would be pleased!
0 -
I used to believe, but long before my daughter's illness. realised the error of my ways. And see no reason to change now.Next said:
I know people who have suffered worse than that, and been brought to a stronger faith in God.OldKingCole said:
At 75 I offered to swap with my 49 year old daughter, who was dying of MND. God didn't listen though. As usual.dyedwoolie said:
Tell that to the hundreds of thousands that died on Boxing Day 2005, or in the Haiti Earthquake, or every day from cancer, disease and the ravages of existence.Next said:
Clearly you have free will, or you wouldn't be able to make that decision.dyedwoolie said:Daemon barber has it nailed.
To take the example of Christianity (for so I was raised), and to review the conversation in the pub the other night. Am I truly expected accept that I have free will, which I never asked for and existence I never craved which must be spent in a world full of injustice, disease and destruction with a personal fight against mental illness and watching those I love, friends, family and acquaintances fight their own battles, with the associated trauma and tragedy of life, only at the end of it to be expected to bow my knee in front of the creator of this chaos, sacrifice my free will, apologise for my 'sins' and spend eternity in slavery to a psychopath?
No thanks.
If God was a psychopath, he wouldn't need your permission to make you a slave.
And almost all harm on this planet is one person's evil on another.
The harm I have suffered personally through mental illness is certainly not one persons evil on another, nor are the series of debilitating strokes that struck down my Nan, or the cancer that is taking my Uncle and has taken another already.
If He exists, he can get on his knees and beg my forgiveness.
And people who have suffered far less, and blame God for it all without even believing in him.0 -
I think you are absolutely right SO except for one thing- that the Taxman is likely to do 'something useful' with the rich's money. All the evidence suggests that he will waste and squander it and that in the end it will benefit neither the its original source nor the population at large. The failure of socialism, which you correctly point out, is evidence enough of what happens to capital in the hands of the state.SouthamObserver said:@SeanT - "Is this global model sustainable? Surely not. Yet there is nothing to replace it, socialism has calamitously failed whenever it has been tried."
I don't think it is sustainable, except with water cannons and other forms of repressive control, and even that is only a stop-gap. Socialism is doomed to fail, because if it is imposed it is not socialism, and it cannot be tried without it being imposed. Capitalism is clearly the way forward. The argument is about the kind of capitalism that works best. I believe a level of state intervention in terms of market regulation and wealth redistribution is both necessary and desirable. And I just do not understand why those with extreme wealth spend so much of their time hoarding money they will never need or use, and keeping it from the taxman, who might be able to do something positive with it. Yes, the state some times does know better how to spend people's money than they do themselves. In the end, such greed - I can think of no other word - is going to be the undoing of the super wealthy. They are their own worst enemies.
However surely the solution is 'forced' charitable giving. That is that wealthy people should be obliged to give a substantial portion of their income/or accumulated wealth to charitable causes I believe that this was in fact one of Frank Field's suggestions). In this way they will at least retain some agency over how their money is spent and it will be spent less inefficiently than through the dead hand of the state. It might have the added benefit that the wealthy become more engaged with the rest of the community as they seek to supervise what their wealth is spent on.
If such a regime was instituted the legal definition of 'charity' would however have to be significantly narrowed to ensure that money was not simply squirreled abroad to charitable causes which are charitable only in name. However I would argue that the definition is too wide in any case.0 -
I see that Labour are are still £12 million in the red. I seemed to remember there was a Labour poster on here that assured everybody that they would have cleared their debts by the time of the next GE and in a much better position than the Tories.
Not looking likely at the moment. Will it have any impact on their ability to fight the GE?0 -
I don't need a God that's for damn sure.CD13 said:Mr Woolie,
And this is the pride that Daemon Barber exhibits. I don't need no one ever - I'll do it my way, because no one knows as much as I do. The trait of dictators.
To take that and extrapolate to "I don't need no one ever" is a bit much. I am as reliant on others, friends/family/government/etc, as anybody else. I'm not special.
No, I think all that evil is down to us humans without the need for a God. Maybe some of it is perpetrated in his name, but that isn't the point.CD13 said:
And all that evil and injustice in the world is down to a sky fairy
which kinda make the rest of that sentence irrelevant...
I've never said there is no outside [of the universe], as I don't see it as a question worth asking let alone answering. I don't have an opinion on it and couldn't care less what yours is.CD13 said:
Still, we know for certain, when we cannot explain infinity or even comprehend an edge to the universe. That's all there is - job done. But what's outside that? There's no outside cos I say so. And if you don't believe that, it's your fault and you're a fool.
Well this atheist merely says that he doesn't believe in God as described by any current or historic religion. If something exists that could prove the existence of God, then i'm perfectly happy to reevaluate my belief system.CD13 said:
Atheists say ... I know that God doesn't exist because if I can't believe in him, he can't do. And if I know that, I'm very impressive, aren't I? And therefore I cannot be convinced, so there's no point trying.0 -
I think it was IoS aka Chilon. Friend of 'pouter.FrancisUrquhart said:I see that Labour are are still £12 million in the red. I seemed to remember there was a Labour poster on here that assured everybody that they would have cleared their debts by the time of the next GE and in a much better position than the Tories.
Not looking likely at the moment. Will it have any impact on their ability to fight the GE?
Maybe the Co Op can bail them out?0 -
It might, not sure.FrancisUrquhart said:I see that Labour are are still £12 million in the red. I seemed to remember there was a Labour poster on here that assured everybody that they would have cleared their debts by the time of the next GE and in a much better position than the Tories.
Not looking likely at the moment. Will it have any impact on their ability to fight the GE?
0 -
One of the most worrying things I heard on the radio last night was that there are companies that will do that for you already, by a sort of reverse-SEO to manipulate unpleasant links out of search results.ToryJim said:I see the predictable consequences of the "right to be forgotten" are emerging.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-274235270 -
Where do you get that figure from ? At end of 2012 Labour were only £ 2 million in the red , 2013 figures are not yet published .FrancisUrquhart said:I see that Labour are are still £12 million in the red. I seemed to remember there was a Labour poster on here that assured everybody that they would have cleared their debts by the time of the next GE and in a much better position than the Tories.
Not looking likely at the moment. Will it have any impact on their ability to fight the GE?0 -
At the end of 2013, Labour had debts of over £12 million, according to the Electoral Commission.MarkSenior said:
Where do you get that figure from ? At end of 2012 Labour were only £ 2 million in the red , 2013 figures are not yet published .FrancisUrquhart said:I see that Labour are are still £12 million in the red. I seemed to remember there was a Labour poster on here that assured everybody that they would have cleared their debts by the time of the next GE and in a much better position than the Tories.
Not looking likely at the moment. Will it have any impact on their ability to fight the GE?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/10795500/Conservative-Party-set-to-become-debt-free-ahead-of-general-election.html0 -
Looks like more than half of people would vote to stay in the EU
http://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/3380/Ipsos-MORI-Political-Monitor-May-2014-Europe-Section.aspx0 -
The Conservatives were £ 8 million in debt at the end of 2012 . Much more likely that that will impact on their ability to fight the GEFrancisUrquhart said:I see that Labour are are still £12 million in the red. I seemed to remember there was a Labour poster on here that assured everybody that they would have cleared their debts by the time of the next GE and in a much better position than the Tories.
Not looking likely at the moment. Will it have any impact on their ability to fight the GE?0 -
What is wicked about Quakers and Unitarians? I suspect they do more good than you do.dyedwoolie said:
In terms of wickedness, I said religious faith is a wickedness, not the individual. The same way dropping a packet of chips on the floor and leaving it is a wickedness. The individual is not wicked unless their religion defines them totally, in which case they are, by my definition, wicked. Not to mention ridiculously naive.0 -
Again your figures out out of date....Latest figures suggest Tories will be basically debt free.MarkSenior said:
The Conservatives were £ 8 million in debt at the end of 2012 . Much more likely that that will impact on their ability to fight the GEFrancisUrquhart said:I see that Labour are are still £12 million in the red. I seemed to remember there was a Labour poster on here that assured everybody that they would have cleared their debts by the time of the next GE and in a much better position than the Tories.
Not looking likely at the moment. Will it have any impact on their ability to fight the GE?
"A final repayment is set to be made in the next month, it is understood. It means the Electoral Commission should report that the Conservatives are debt free in August this year. "
From the Telegraph article linked below.
0 -
Was it a politically correct loony lefty chiding a Tory or the other way around?ToryJim said:
Oh yawn another Delingpole special.isam said:Women's Minister Should Apologise for her Offensive 'Rapist' Tweet
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/05/15/Nicky-Morgan-should-apologise-for-bullying-Austin-Mitchell-over-his-harmless-rapist-tweet
0 -
A philosophical question..
If the Euro elections were run an infinite number of times would the Lib Dems eventually win one ?0 -
That is wrong , as I said the 2013 accounts are not publishedFrancisUrquhart said:
At the end of 2013, Labour had debts of over £12 million, according to the Electoral Commission.MarkSenior said:
Where do you get that figure from ? At end of 2012 Labour were only £ 2 million in the red , 2013 figures are not yet published .FrancisUrquhart said:I see that Labour are are still £12 million in the red. I seemed to remember there was a Labour poster on here that assured everybody that they would have cleared their debts by the time of the next GE and in a much better position than the Tories.
Not looking likely at the moment. Will it have any impact on their ability to fight the GE?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/10795500/Conservative-Party-set-to-become-debt-free-ahead-of-general-election.html
0 -
@MaxU
I quite like the sound of this forced giving to charity, obviously there will have to be safe-guards built in as to what constitutes a charity, but that law desperately needs tightening anyway. Do you see the tax, sorry, enforced giving, being based on income for a year or total wealth? Either way the problem is not with the idea it is with enforcement.0 -
Mr Barber,
"I've never said there is no outside [of the universe], as I don't see it as a question worth asking let alone answering. I don't have an opinion on it and couldn't care less what yours is."
I'm not criticising you at all. You have free will (although science used to struggle a little with that). You don't wonder when time began? Or where the world ends and why? Perhaps it's just me then.
It's not an evolutionary advantage to do so anyway. And it's not even getting the lawn cut.0 -
@MaxU - very much agree with your comments. In most parts of the world I have found that tax money is often ill-spent (e.g James G Brown) or used for political purposes and in many economies to line the off-shore pockets of the ruling politicians.MaxU said:
I think you are absolutely right SO except for one thing- that the Taxman is likely to do 'something useful' with the rich's money. All the evidence suggests that he will waste and squander it and that in the end it will benefit neither the its original source nor the population at large. The failure of socialism, which you correctly point out, is evidence enough of what happens to capital in the hands of the state.SouthamObserver said:@SeanT - "Is this global model sustainable? Surely not. Yet there is nothing to replace it, socialism has calamitously failed whenever it has been tried."
I don't think it is sustainable, except with water cannons and other forms of repressive control, and even that is only a stop-gap. Socialism is doomed to fail, because if it is imposed it is not socialism, and it cannot be tried without it being imposed. Capitalism is clearly the way forward. The argument is about the kind of capitalism that works best. I believe a level of state intervention in terms of market regulation and wealth redistribution is both necessary and desirable. And I just do not understand why those with extreme wealth spend so much of their time hoarding money they will never need or use, and keeping it from the taxman, who might be able to do something positive with it. Yes, the state some times does know better how to spend people's money than they do themselves. In the end, such greed - I can think of no other word - is going to be the undoing of the super wealthy. They are their own worst enemies.
However surely the solution is 'forced' charitable giving. That is that wealthy people should be obliged to give a substantial portion of their income/or accumulated wealth to charitable causes I believe that this was in fact one of Frank Field's suggestions). In this way they will at least retain some agency over how their money is spent and it will be spent less inefficiently than through the dead hand of the state. It might have the added benefit that the wealthy become more engaged with the rest of the community as they seek to supervise what their wealth is spent on.
If such a regime was instituted the legal definition of 'charity' would however have to be significantly narrowed to ensure that money was not simply squirreled abroad to charitable causes which are charitable only in name. However I would argue that the definition is too wide in any case.
However, I agree with charities as long as they are truly charities and not become in effect offshoots of the government and funded as such - these then often have a political side and lose both efficiency and original purpose.0 -
Here is the electoral commission document (see Table 6):MarkSenior said:
That is wrong , as I said the 2013 accounts are not publishedFrancisUrquhart said:
At the end of 2013, Labour had debts of over £12 million, according to the Electoral Commission.MarkSenior said:
Where do you get that figure from ? At end of 2012 Labour were only £ 2 million in the red , 2013 figures are not yet published .FrancisUrquhart said:I see that Labour are are still £12 million in the red. I seemed to remember there was a Labour poster on here that assured everybody that they would have cleared their debts by the time of the next GE and in a much better position than the Tories.
Not looking likely at the moment. Will it have any impact on their ability to fight the GE?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/10795500/Conservative-Party-set-to-become-debt-free-ahead-of-general-election.html
http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/167721/Q1-2014-donations-and-loans-summary-document.pdf0 -
http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/167721/Q1-2014-donations-and-loans-summary-document.pdfMarkSenior said:
That is wrong , as I said the 2013 accounts are not publishedFrancisUrquhart said:
At the end of 2013, Labour had debts of over £12 million, according to the Electoral Commission.MarkSenior said:
Where do you get that figure from ? At end of 2012 Labour were only £ 2 million in the red , 2013 figures are not yet published .FrancisUrquhart said:I see that Labour are are still £12 million in the red. I seemed to remember there was a Labour poster on here that assured everybody that they would have cleared their debts by the time of the next GE and in a much better position than the Tories.
Not looking likely at the moment. Will it have any impact on their ability to fight the GE?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/10795500/Conservative-Party-set-to-become-debt-free-ahead-of-general-election.html
0 -
Thanks for that. A curious document, not least because it comes from the newspaper which has published Mr A. Cochrane's reportage for years. But perhaps they think any form of dissent by those of 'pro-independence' views is nasty, you know, really violent stuff like giving cinema ads the raspberry (I wonder, how do we know the audience weren't just dissatisfied with the camerawork of the auteur in question?).ToryJim said:Iain Martin asks why the Nats are so nasty.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/iainmartin1/100271611/why-are-alex-salmonds-scottish-nationalists-being-so-nasty-and-negative/
In any case, fro those interested (and others are cheerfully encouraged to look away now), this gives a rather different perspective on the same issue, from a Unionist newspaper too -
http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/columnists/swithering-scotland-might-yet-swither-to-a-yes-result.1400146935
0 -
The Electoral Commission will report nothing of the sort in August , they do not report anything like that at any time of the year . They publish the parties annual accounts . Those from 2013 will be published shortly , those from the end of 2014 around the end of May next year .FrancisUrquhart said:
Again your figures out out of date....Latest figures suggest Tories will be basically debt free.MarkSenior said:
The Conservatives were £ 8 million in debt at the end of 2012 . Much more likely that that will impact on their ability to fight the GEFrancisUrquhart said:I see that Labour are are still £12 million in the red. I seemed to remember there was a Labour poster on here that assured everybody that they would have cleared their debts by the time of the next GE and in a much better position than the Tories.
Not looking likely at the moment. Will it have any impact on their ability to fight the GE?
"A final repayment is set to be made in the next month, it is understood. It means the Electoral Commission should report that the Conservatives are debt free in August this year. "
From the Telegraph article linked below.0 -
Possibly, but a branch of theoretical physics suggest that universes exist for all possibilities. So presumably there is one where that would happen. There is probably another where Ed Miliband is a charismatic popular leader.Pulpstar said:A philosophical question..
If the Euro elections were run an infinite number of times would the Lib Dems eventually win one ?
0 -
[you know, really violent stuff like giving cinema ads the raspberry]
I have done this. I note the cinema in question has changed hands many times.0 -
You are confusing borrowings with debts . Net debt is assets less borrowings .FrancisUrquhart said:
http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/167721/Q1-2014-donations-and-loans-summary-document.pdfMarkSenior said:
That is wrong , as I said the 2013 accounts are not publishedFrancisUrquhart said:
At the end of 2013, Labour had debts of over £12 million, according to the Electoral Commission.MarkSenior said:
Where do you get that figure from ? At end of 2012 Labour were only £ 2 million in the red , 2013 figures are not yet published .FrancisUrquhart said:I see that Labour are are still £12 million in the red. I seemed to remember there was a Labour poster on here that assured everybody that they would have cleared their debts by the time of the next GE and in a much better position than the Tories.
Not looking likely at the moment. Will it have any impact on their ability to fight the GE?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/10795500/Conservative-Party-set-to-become-debt-free-ahead-of-general-election.html0 -
There is probably another where Ed Miliband is a charismatic popular leader.ToryJim said:
Possibly, but a branch of theoretical physics suggest that universes exist for all possibilities. So presumably there is one where that would happen. There is probably another where Ed Miliband is a charismatic popular leader.Pulpstar said:A philosophical question..
If the Euro elections were run an infinite number of times would the Lib Dems eventually win one ?
I think you've disproved the theory.
0 -
Understand...Obviously the Telegraph have made the same mistake.MarkSenior said:
You are confusing borrowings with debts . Net debt is assets less borrowings .FrancisUrquhart said:
http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/167721/Q1-2014-donations-and-loans-summary-document.pdfMarkSenior said:
That is wrong , as I said the 2013 accounts are not publishedFrancisUrquhart said:
At the end of 2013, Labour had debts of over £12 million, according to the Electoral Commission.MarkSenior said:
Where do you get that figure from ? At end of 2012 Labour were only £ 2 million in the red , 2013 figures are not yet published .FrancisUrquhart said:I see that Labour are are still £12 million in the red. I seemed to remember there was a Labour poster on here that assured everybody that they would have cleared their debts by the time of the next GE and in a much better position than the Tories.
Not looking likely at the moment. Will it have any impact on their ability to fight the GE?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/10795500/Conservative-Party-set-to-become-debt-free-ahead-of-general-election.html
Lets rephrase, Labour still have £12 million in outstanding loans (and the Co-Op wont be opening any new credit facilities for them), the Tories looks like wont have any.
Will this affect their ability to fight the GE?0 -
"There is probably another where Ed Miliband is a charismatic popular leader. "ToryJim said:
Possibly, but a branch of theoretical physics suggest that universes exist for all possibilities. So presumably there is one where that would happen. There is probably another where Ed Miliband is a charismatic popular leader.Pulpstar said:A philosophical question..
If the Euro elections were run an infinite number of times would the Lib Dems eventually win one ?
And that is where you blow the whole multiverse idea out of the water. Infinity is just not that big.0 -
0
-
I went to a Quaker prep school. It was pleasant enough, except that we were subjected in morning assemblies to interminable readings from A Pilgrim's Progress, which should count as a cruel and unreasonable punishment in anyone's moral code. When they reached the end, they started again a few days later at the beginning.Socrates said:What is wicked about Quakers and Unitarians? I suspect they do more good than you do.
Whenever our pilgrim got to the Slough of Despond, I was ever hopeful that he'd sink into the slough and never appear again, but, no, each time he was rescued by Help and continued on his tedious journey to the Celestial City.0 -
What about the universe where Nick Clegg is widely trusted?Next said:
There is probably another where Ed Miliband is a charismatic popular leader.ToryJim said:
Possibly, but a branch of theoretical physics suggest that universes exist for all possibilities. So presumably there is one where that would happen. There is probably another where Ed Miliband is a charismatic popular leader.Pulpstar said:A philosophical question..
If the Euro elections were run an infinite number of times would the Lib Dems eventually win one ?
I think you've disproved the theory.0 -
When we have held the Indy Referendum, and after the Scots overwhelming vote No. The Yes campaign will start their post mortem on why they failed to move Scots opinion nearer Independence after such a lengthy campaign, and with an SNP majority at Holyrood and Salmond at the helm as FM. I suspect that then we will be revisiting this very clear and developing problem for the Nationalists, and why it turned the campaign so nasty and bitter before the result was even declared. There is going to be a real and lingering bitterness left, and one that really saw Scot pitted against Scot rather than the rest of the UK as some in the SNP had hoped.Carnyx said:
Thanks for that. A curious document, not least because it comes from the newspaper which has published Mr A. Cochrane's reportage for years. But perhaps they think any form of dissent by those of 'pro-independence' views is nasty, you know, really violent stuff like giving cinema ads the raspberry (I wonder, how do we know the audience weren't just dissatisfied with the camerawork of the auteur in question?).ToryJim said:Iain Martin asks why the Nats are so nasty.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/iainmartin1/100271611/why-are-alex-salmonds-scottish-nationalists-being-so-nasty-and-negative/
In any case, fro those interested (and others are cheerfully encouraged to look away now), this gives a rather different perspective on the same issue, from a Unionist newspaper too -
http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/columnists/swithering-scotland-might-yet-swither-to-a-yes-result.14001469350 -
I doubt it as Labour are still receiving £ 5 million or so annually in Short money and the Conservatives zero .FrancisUrquhart said:
Understand...Obviously the Telegraph have made the same mistake.MarkSenior said:
You are confusing borrowings with debts . Net debt is assets less borrowings .FrancisUrquhart said:
http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/167721/Q1-2014-donations-and-loans-summary-document.pdfMarkSenior said:
That is wrong , as I said the 2013 accounts are not publishedFrancisUrquhart said:
At the end of 2013, Labour had debts of over £12 million, according to the Electoral Commission.MarkSenior said:
Where do you get that figure from ? At end of 2012 Labour were only £ 2 million in the red , 2013 figures are not yet published .FrancisUrquhart said:I see that Labour are are still £12 million in the red. I seemed to remember there was a Labour poster on here that assured everybody that they would have cleared their debts by the time of the next GE and in a much better position than the Tories.
Not looking likely at the moment. Will it have any impact on their ability to fight the GE?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/10795500/Conservative-Party-set-to-become-debt-free-ahead-of-general-election.html
Lets rephrase, Labour still have £12 million in outstanding loans (and the Co-Op wont be opening any new credit facilities for them), the Tories looks like wont have any.
Will this affect their ability to fight the GE?0 -
An entirely negative article about the Better Together campaign from a journalist who has spent the last year writing entirely negative articles about the Better Together campaign. It's not exactly a groundbreaker.Carnyx said:
Thanks for that. A curious document, not least because it comes from the newspaper which has published Mr A. Cochrane's reportage for years. But perhaps they think any form of dissent by those of 'pro-independence' views is nasty, you know, really violent stuff like giving cinema ads the raspberry (I wonder, how do we know the audience weren't just dissatisfied with the camerawork of the auteur in question?).ToryJim said:Iain Martin asks why the Nats are so nasty.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/iainmartin1/100271611/why-are-alex-salmonds-scottish-nationalists-being-so-nasty-and-negative/
In any case, fro those interested (and others are cheerfully encouraged to look away now), this gives a rather different perspective on the same issue, from a Unionist newspaper too -
http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/columnists/swithering-scotland-might-yet-swither-to-a-yes-result.1400146935
0 -
Individually? Depends on the individual. Probably nothing. In terms of their faith? Unitarians believe that acts of ethical morality as defined by their faith are required for redemption. That is an imposition on those not of like mind. Likewise Quakers.Socrates said:
What is wicked about Quakers and Unitarians? I suspect they do more good than you do.dyedwoolie said:
In terms of wickedness, I said religious faith is a wickedness, not the individual. The same way dropping a packet of chips on the floor and leaving it is a wickedness. The individual is not wicked unless their religion defines them totally, in which case they are, by my definition, wicked. Not to mention ridiculously naive.
I'm not arguing people of faith can't be thoroughly awesome people. I'm arguing that faith is a deficiency and of necessity involves denial of the end goal to the non believer, which I define as a wickendness. I also define littering as a wickedness. Littering doesn't make you wicked or a monster, but it remains a wickedness.
As for what 'they' have done compared to me, let's not go down the net numpty passive aggressive route, hey? You know no more about me than you do the vast majority of Unitarians and Quakers. Nor shall you unless we meet in person.0 -
John Bunyan resides within 200 metres of my flat. Would you like me to take your complaint up with him?Richard_Nabavi said:
I went to a Quaker prep school. It was pleasant enough, except that we were subjected in morning assemblies to interminable readings from A Pilgrim's Progress, which should count as a cruel and unreasonable punishment in anyone's moral code. When they reached the end, they started again a few days later at the beginning.Socrates said:What is wicked about Quakers and Unitarians? I suspect they do more good than you do.
Whenever our pilgrim got to the Slough of Despond, I was ever hopeful that he'd sink into the slough and never appear again, but, no, each time he was rescued by Help and continued on his tedious journey to the Celestial City.0
