Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Polling analysis: Those firms that don’t prompt for the Gre

1356

Comments

  • Stuart_DicksonStuart_Dickson Posts: 3,557
    Survation tweet:

    Scottish parliament - constituency vote
    SNP 44% (-1)
    Lab 32% (n/c)
    Con 15% (+2)
    LD 5% (-1)

    Smearing Salmond clearly continues to be a highly effective tactic.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    notme said:

    ToryJim said:

    Anorak said:

    Depressing. Sudanese court sentences woman raised as a christian to death, because her (absent) father was a muslim, and she wont recant her christianity. She also gets 100 lashes for adultery as her marriage to another christian is not recognised under islamic law.

    The woman is 8 months pregnant.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-27424064

    Very depressing. It reinforces my loathing for organised religion of all forms.
    But it isnt organised religions of all forms, its a particular one.
    Its a particularly obnoxious example from one, agreed. But organised religion seems too often defined in terms of people/groups it hates which I find difficult to stomach.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    ToryJim said:

    Absolutely excellent. I'm sure the Helmersaurus and Faragiraptor hate it.
    We should be shoving this down the throat of every hater in the country. Especially the ones who object on pretendy God grounds
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699

    Stunning new European Parliament voting intention poll
    (+/- change from EP election 2009)

    SNP 40% (+11)
    Con 22% (+5)
    Lab 16% (-5)
    UKIP 8% (+3)
    Grn 7% (n/c)
    LD 5% (-7)
    BNP 1% (-2)

    ComRes - Scottish sub-sample = 172

    https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://www.comres.co.uk/polls/C4M_European_Voting_Intention_Poll_15_May_2014.pdf

    That would result in a seat distribution of:

    SNP 3 MEPs (+1)
    Con 2 MEPs (+1)
    Lab 1 MEP (-1)
    LD 0 MEPs (-1)

    Are any of the Scottish newspapers likely to commission another Scotland-only EU Parliament poll before the election?

    No. They are all pretty much bankrupt and have zero cash for polling.

    This ComRes poll showing Scottish Labour on just 16%, behind the Scottish Tories, is likely to be our last hint of the state of play. And remember, vast numbers of voters have already cast their votes, so to a large extent this ComRes is actually an exit poll.
    rather it is a bigger hint that the sub sample is rubbish and should be consigned to the dustbin .
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Have a fiver on at 11-8 now... Would have gone for a tenner at 6-4
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Away, that's a very good point.
  • Stuart_DicksonStuart_Dickson Posts: 3,557
    edited May 2014
    Anorak said:

    Stunning new European Parliament voting intention poll
    (+/- change from EP election 2009)

    SNP 40% (+11)
    Con 22% (+5)
    Lab 16% (-5)
    UKIP 8% (+3)
    Grn 7% (n/c)
    LD 5% (-7)
    BNP 1% (-2)

    ComRes - Scottish sub-sample = 172

    https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://www.comres.co.uk/polls/C4M_European_Voting_Intention_Poll_15_May_2014.pdf

    That would result in a seat distribution of:

    SNP 3 MEPs (+1)
    Con 2 MEPs (+1)
    Lab 1 MEP (-1)
    LD 0 MEPs (-1)

    Are any of the Scottish newspapers likely to commission another Scotland-only EU Parliament poll before the election?

    No. They are all pretty much bankrupt and have zero cash for polling.

    This ComRes poll showing Scottish Labour on just 16%, behind the Scottish Tories, is likely to be our last hint of the state of play. And remember, vast numbers of voters have already cast their votes, so to a large extent this ComRes is actually an exit poll.
    Interesting point. ComRes don't distinguish between those who have voted and those who have not?
    Nope.

  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Sean_F said:

    notme said:

    ToryJim said:

    Anorak said:

    Depressing. Sudanese court sentences woman raised as a christian to death, because her (absent) father was a muslim, and she wont recant her christianity. She also gets 100 lashes for adultery as her marriage to another christian is not recognised under islamic law.

    The woman is 8 months pregnant.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-27424064

    Very depressing. It reinforces my loathing for organised religion of all forms.
    But it isnt organised religions of all forms, its a particular one.
    All religions have their sickness. The morally bankrupt Catholics, the filth that hide behind God in America etc etc etc.
    There are even a few less than pleasant atheists in the world (hard as it may be to believe).

    Indeed, but they are least unpleasant for and of themselves and don't hide it behind made up dogma.
    I can deal with that far more easily, it's just people being crap.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    notme said:

    ToryJim said:

    Anorak said:

    Depressing. Sudanese court sentences woman raised as a christian to death, because her (absent) father was a muslim, and she wont recant her christianity. She also gets 100 lashes for adultery as her marriage to another christian is not recognised under islamic law.

    The woman is 8 months pregnant.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-27424064

    Very depressing. It reinforces my loathing for organised religion of all forms.
    But it isnt organised religions of all forms, its a particular one.
    All religions have their sickness. The morally bankrupt Catholics, the filth that hide behind God in America etc etc etc.
    All religions, Mr. Woolie? All? Are you sure? You wouldn't consider that there might be some exceptions to that statement?
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @ToryJim

    Muslims,Jews, and Christians, all have the same roots (Moses, Ten Commandments) one of which is "love thy neighbour".... since the world is now "Global" everyone's our neighbour....so can we all stop arguing please?
    (in a religious sense of course...you Tory barsteward!)
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,564

    isam said:

    On topic, can anybody answer?

    If UKIP are being over estimated because of the lack of a prompt for the Greens in the EU pols, surely it follows that Westminster VI polls that do not prompt for UKIP (most of them?) lead to inflated scores for the other parties?

    That's correct, as far as it goes. The argument for not prompting for UKIP is that in practice the small parties tend to get squeezed at Westminster elections, so the two wrongs cancel each other out and make a right.

    [snip to save space]
    Yes - also, one reason new parties underperform at GEs is that they usually don't stand in most places. UKIP appears to plan to stand nearly everywhere.

    TGOHF said:

    Reason why Ed's landlord bashing went down badly ?

    James Chapman (Mail) ‏@jameschappers 3m
    11% of people have a second home?Incredible stat http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/was/wealth-in-great-britain-wave-3/2010-2012/sty-facts-about-household-wealth.html

    Er, but 15% of the population rent from a private landlord - 2011 census.

    Since 15 > 11 [and some of the 11 will be second-homes that are not rented out] that statistic can not explain why Miliband's rent reforms did not lead to a stunning 10-point Labour lead in the polls.
    I'm a private renter and I don't want to be forced into a 3 year contract by Mr Miliband (I realise there is talk of a get out clause). I like the flexibility of renting and would much rather have something shorter. I think I should be able to make whatever rental agreement I like with my landlord without the Government sticking its nose in.
    You'd be exactly as free or unfree as now. The default contract is now a year with a 6-month break clause. If you don;t like it, you can try to negotiate anything else. The proposed change would make the default 3 years. If you don't like that, you can try to negotiate anything else. Depends whether the landlord can be bothered to negotiate special terms.
  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,782
    @TSE - Sorry if you mentioned it yesterday but if so I missed it - what was your conclusion on Newark having changed trains there...
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    notme said:

    ToryJim said:

    Anorak said:

    Depressing. Sudanese court sentences woman raised as a christian to death, because her (absent) father was a muslim, and she wont recant her christianity. She also gets 100 lashes for adultery as her marriage to another christian is not recognised under islamic law.

    The woman is 8 months pregnant.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-27424064

    Very depressing. It reinforces my loathing for organised religion of all forms.
    But it isnt organised religions of all forms, its a particular one.
    All religions have their sickness. The morally bankrupt Catholics, the filth that hide behind God in America etc etc etc.
    All religions, Mr. Woolie? All? Are you sure? You wouldn't consider that there might be some exceptions to that statement?
    All religions, yes. The mere holding of religious faith is a deficiency in and of itself IMO. A deficiency anyone is perfectly entitled to indulge in.
    All religions believe that the true believers alone will reach whatever Nirvava or renewed state of glory they have as their end goal, and, as such, are demonising others either now or in the assumed future. It's a wickedness, one we have to tolerate unfortunately.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,818
    Smarmeron said:

    @ToryJim

    Muslims,Jews, and Christians, all have the same roots (Moses, Ten Commandments) one of which is "love thy neighbour".... since the world is now "Global" everyone's our neighbour....so can we all stop arguing please?
    (in a religious sense of course...you Tory barsteward!)

    I think when a pregnant Sudanese woman is going to be executed and whipped because of barbaric Islamic sharia laws people have a right to 'argue' about the merits of that religion playing a part in the legal system. Some may say they have a duty to argue
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @HurstLlama

    I quite like some of the Inuit religions
  • Stuart_DicksonStuart_Dickson Posts: 3,557
    CON tightening in Loughborough. New best prices:

    Con 10/11
    Lab 10/11
    UKIP 25/1
    LD 100/1
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Re Newark. As a regular through traveller, I'd like to see someone commit to duelling the A17 all the way to Lynn to make my journeys to the Highlands less onerous.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    I sense we are about to have an ‘all atheist are crap’ thread – I swear I can hear SeanT climbing out of his deck chair and lumbering towards the laptop.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189

    Sean_F said:

    notme said:

    ToryJim said:

    Anorak said:

    Depressing. Sudanese court sentences woman raised as a christian to death, because her (absent) father was a muslim, and she wont recant her christianity. She also gets 100 lashes for adultery as her marriage to another christian is not recognised under islamic law.

    The woman is 8 months pregnant.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-27424064

    Very depressing. It reinforces my loathing for organised religion of all forms.
    But it isnt organised religions of all forms, its a particular one.
    All religions have their sickness. The morally bankrupt Catholics, the filth that hide behind God in America etc etc etc.
    There are even a few less than pleasant atheists in the world (hard as it may be to believe).

    Indeed, but they are least unpleasant for and of themselves and don't hide it behind made up dogma.
    I can deal with that far more easily, it's just people being crap.
    Agree. The fact that often religion is used as a defensive shield for moral ugliness grates. Things like I don't like women/gays/unbelievers because of something written by someone claiming to be influenced by a deity and ergo they should be second class people or worse. Aargh.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Diplomacy query (posting here because I'm the only one with a move so I'd rather get it resolved pronto): I've got a retreating fleet. My preference would be to move it to empty Belgium, but the fleet which displaced me came from there. Is that a permitted retreat move? I'd guess no, but want to check.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,818
    edited May 2014

    notme said:

    ToryJim said:

    Anorak said:

    Depressing. Sudanese court sentences woman raised as a christian to death, because her (absent) father was a muslim, and she wont recant her christianity. She also gets 100 lashes for adultery as her marriage to another christian is not recognised under islamic law.

    The woman is 8 months pregnant.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-27424064

    Very depressing. It reinforces my loathing for organised religion of all forms.
    But it isnt organised religions of all forms, its a particular one.
    All religions have their sickness. The morally bankrupt Catholics, the filth that hide behind God in America etc etc etc.
    All religions, Mr. Woolie? All? Are you sure? You wouldn't consider that there might be some exceptions to that statement?
    All religions, yes. The mere holding of religious faith is a deficiency in and of itself IMO. A deficiency anyone is perfectly entitled to indulge in.
    All religions believe that the true believers alone will reach whatever Nirvava or renewed state of glory they have as their end goal, and, as such, are demonising others either now or in the assumed future. It's a wickedness, one we have to tolerate unfortunately.
    I fear you are diluting the issue by having a go at organised religion . Yes it is not for me either but as long as people want to do it voluntarily and without fear of what would happen if they don't then its fine . It even has its good social aspects . But by moaning about organised religion you camouflage the real evil which is the incorporation of criminal sharia law into many countries legal code and which then results in whipping and killing pregnant women or hanging gays
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    Lennon said:

    @TSE - Sorry if you mentioned it yesterday but if so I missed it - what was your conclusion on Newark having changed trains there...

    Nobody wanted to talk politics.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    "... boycott the Dorchester please everyone ..."

    I have been doing that for years.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    I sense we are about to have an ‘all atheist are crap’ thread – I swear I can hear SeanT climbing out of his deck chair and lumbering towards the laptop.

    Yay, we need SeanT and his buddy J Christ here to spice things up. There should be a PB court case, Atheists versus the united team of Faithists.
  • Stuart_DicksonStuart_Dickson Posts: 3,557
    CON drifting again in the Euro Most Votes market. New best prices:

    UKIP 8/15 (Hills)
    Lab 11/4 (various)
    Con 11/1 (Betfair)
    LD 1000/1 (Betfair)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    Sean_F said:

    isam said:

    Mr Farage cannot boast a single national title...

    I thought the Express was the paper batting for UKIP?
    I think the right wing press were sympathetic to UKIP so long as they could be used to put pressure on Cameron to tack rightwards. Now that UKIP has the potential to do real damage to the Conservatives, they've turned more hostile. It's certainly been interesting seeing papers like the Mail and Sun criticising UKIP for attitudes towards towards immigration and homosexuality that are frequently expressed by their own columnists and editors.

    Do you really believe the editor of the Sun or the Mail cares more about the Conservative's election performance than their own sales?
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @SimonStClare

    I am fine with atheism, but its a mugs bet, agnosticism and belief both offer better odds
  • tessyCtessyC Posts: 106
    The poll everyone everywhere has been waiting for... How Welsh people would vote in Indy referendums for Scotland and Wales.

    Should Scotland be an independent country?
    Yes 16%
    No 63%
    Don't know/Wouldn't vote 21%

    Should Wales be an independent country?
    Yes 14%
    No 72%
    Don't know/Wouldn't vote 14%

    http://www.itv.com/news/wales/update/2014-05-15/wales-wants-scotland-to-stay-in-uk/
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    edited May 2014
    The only EU election literature we have had is from UKIP. Others in Buckinghamshire say they have all had UKIP literature but otherwise only a sprinkling of Conservative leaflets.

    The 'main' parties seem to be saving their resources for next year's general election.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    notme said:

    ToryJim said:

    Anorak said:

    Depressing. Sudanese court sentences woman raised as a christian to death, because her (absent) father was a muslim, and she wont recant her christianity. She also gets 100 lashes for adultery as her marriage to another christian is not recognised under islamic law.

    The woman is 8 months pregnant.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-27424064

    Very depressing. It reinforces my loathing for organised religion of all forms.
    But it isnt organised religions of all forms, its a particular one.
    All religions have their sickness. The morally bankrupt Catholics, the filth that hide behind God in America etc etc etc.
    All religions, Mr. Woolie? All? Are you sure? You wouldn't consider that there might be some exceptions to that statement?
    All religions, yes. The mere holding of religious faith is a deficiency in and of itself IMO. A deficiency anyone is perfectly entitled to indulge in.
    All religions believe that the true believers alone will reach whatever Nirvava or renewed state of glory they have as their end goal, and, as such, are demonising others either now or in the assumed future. It's a wickedness, one we have to tolerate unfortunately.
    I fear you are diluting the issue by having a go at organised religion . Yes it is not for me either but as long as people want to do it voluntarily and without fear of what would happen if they don't then its fine . It even has its good social aspects . But by moaning about organised religion you camouflage the real evil which is the incorporation of criminal sharia law into many countries legal code and which then results in whipping and killing pregnant women or hanging gays
    I'm perfectly relaxed about people believing whatever they want to. My belief is organised religion, or indeed religious faith itself is ridiculous.
    Obviously, in secular terms you need to pare that down to deal with injustice against individuals or groups.
    Separate things really
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262

    "... boycott the Dorchester please everyone ..."

    I have been doing that for years.

    I try and avoid Dorchester.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    Does anyone prompt for "An Independence from Europe"?
  • Stuart_DicksonStuart_Dickson Posts: 3,557
    UKIP drifting again in Newark: now 5.5 at Betfair.
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    Religious people hate, maim and kill others because of tiny differences imperceivable to followers of science, who see them as all equally deluded.

    This hatred, maiming and killing is done in the name of someone they have never seen, but whom they have read about in books.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Interesting comparison of religiosity (apparently a real word) and IQ by country.

    http://www.calamitiesofnature.com/archive/?c=619
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Diplomacy query (posting here because I'm the only one with a move so I'd rather get it resolved pronto): I've got a retreating fleet. My preference would be to move it to empty Belgium, but the fleet which displaced me came from there. Is that a permitted retreat move? I'd guess no, but want to check.

    You'd be right, Mr. D.. You cannot retreat into the space from whence the successful attacking unit came from.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Cheers, Mr. Llama.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @chrisshipitv: Lottery winners Colin & Christine Weir both gave £500k to SNP says @ElectoralCommUK. Makes them 4th= biggest political donors in UK
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976

    I sense we are about to have an ‘all atheist are crap’ thread – I swear I can hear SeanT climbing out of his deck chair and lumbering towards the laptop.

    Yay, we need SeanT and his buddy J Christ here to spice things up. There should be a PB court case, Atheists versus the united team of Faithists.
    Not a good idea - I fear you would be exhibit (1) for the defense that you don't need to be religious to be angry and intolerant ; )
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    BobaFett said:

    Religious people hate, maim and kill others because of tiny differences imperceivable to followers of science, who see them as all equally deluded.

    I'm a follower of science, and I certainly don't see all religious people as equally deluded. Clearly a Buddhist who believes the following teaching is less deluded than an Islamic fundamentalist:

    "Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.”"
  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626
    edited May 2014
    Smarmeron said:

    @SimonStClare

    I am fine with atheism, but its a mugs bet, agnosticism and belief both offer better odds

    Pascal's wager reheated...

    If you choose to "believe" in a God because it's a better bet, then what does that say about the God you choose to believe in?

    The whole atheist/agnostic distinction is a bit blurred anyway. I'm atheist, but am prepared to become a believer if sufficient evidence is presented. Not holding my breath.

    besides, I'd rather burn in the fires of Hell than prostrate myself before the God that created it.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @BobaFett
    The books themselves are fine, it is how religions interpret them, and teach them by rote.
    And as Goves school reforms will show, it is a great way to stop "free thinking" ;-)
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,818
    Scott_P said:

    @chrisshipitv: Lottery winners Colin & Christine Weir both gave £500k to SNP says @ElectoralCommUK. Makes them 4th= biggest political donors in UK

    What a waste !!!
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    Socrates said:

    BobaFett said:

    Religious people hate, maim and kill others because of tiny differences imperceivable to followers of science, who see them as all equally deluded.

    I'm a follower of science, and I certainly don't see all religious people as equally deluded. Clearly a Buddhist who believes the following teaching is less deluded than an Islamic fundamentalist:

    "Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.”"
    Buddhism is more a philosophy than a religion as such.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    Ladbrokes Politics ‏@LadPolitics 1m

    An Independence from Europe; will they ruin UKIP bets? http://wp.me/p4Dp6d-2
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited May 2014
    Revolution in Wales?
    "I’ve just received the results from the latest [YouGov/Welsh Political Barometer] poll. You’ll have to wait until Monday for the details. All I can say for now is that sometimes polls produce rather dull, ‘steady as she goes’ findings. This is definitely not one of those polls."

    http://blogs.cardiff.ac.uk/electionsinwales/2014/05/15/something-to-look-forward-to/

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Parliament_election,_2014_(United_Kingdom)#Welsh_polls

  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,818

    Ladbrokes Politics ‏@LadPolitics 1m

    An Independence from Europe; will they ruin UKIP bets? http://wp.me/p4Dp6d-2

    I think they will get more than 1.5% that Shadsy put the original (haven't looked lately) line at
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    SeanT said:

    It's no wonder Europe's fringe parties are on the march, some of the latest EU economic data is incredibly gloomy.

    e.g.

    @Jens_Bastian
    24th consecutive quarter of negative GDP numbers for @Greece Q1-2014.

    Imagine that. 24 consecutive quarters of a shrinking economy. 6 solid years, with barely an end in sight, and the increasing possibility it might get WORSE.

    When eurogeddon was at its height and it was speculated Greece might exit the euro, boffins said Oh no they can't do that, the economy will crash by 30%.

    After six years of unrelenting shrinkage, they must be close to that 30% drop in GDP anyway - yet they are still stuck in the euro.

    The euro remains a disaster zone. There's a serious chance of a hard right or even far right party seizing real power somewhere in the EU - if this continues.

    I have been beating this drum for years and years on here, and everyone seems to think it's just an anti-EU bias causing me to be unduly negative on the EU economy. It's actually the reverse: my anti-EU views are informed by economic knowledge of how screwed their economies are. Structurally, there are huge imbalances across the zone, the economic governance of the Eurozone is completely inadequate to address them and the political issues means that can't be changed. Recovery in many of these places simply won't ever happen without major change.

    And there are very clear implications from this: trade with the rest of the world will become increasingly valuable while trade with Europe will be increasingly less important. We can get ahead of that trend and benefit from it, or we can twiddle our thumbs and lose out until we realise.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @SeanT


    And sampling "hell" first thing in the morning?
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Smarmeron said:

    @BobaFett
    The books themselves are fine, it is how religions interpret them, and teach them by rote.
    And as Goves school reforms will show, it is a great way to stop "free thinking" ;-)

    I love how people react to an Islamic state doing some beastly by saying "aren't all religions awful!" Next time the government does something wrong, why don't we react by saying "Governments! They're all terrible!"
  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626
    SeanT said:

    Yeah, but I'm going to PARADISE, by way of Baccara bar, tonight.

    Dont't google Baccara Bar in the office - NSFW.



  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,818
    Smarmeron said:

    @BobaFett
    The books themselves are fine, it is how religions interpret them, and teach them by rote.
    And as Goves school reforms will show, it is a great way to stop "free thinking" ;-)

    The books are not really fine and would be banned if newly published today under hate laws.
    That said I don't mind if people take comfort from parts of them or even take moral guidance but feel dubious when people then brainwash others into them and certainly feel outraged when countries adopt these books as part of criminal law
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    ToryJim said:

    Socrates said:

    BobaFett said:

    Religious people hate, maim and kill others because of tiny differences imperceivable to followers of science, who see them as all equally deluded.

    I'm a follower of science, and I certainly don't see all religious people as equally deluded. Clearly a Buddhist who believes the following teaching is less deluded than an Islamic fundamentalist:

    "Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.”"
    Buddhism is more a philosophy than a religion as such.
    Buddhism is clearly a religion, with its own rituals, history and culture. It's particularly ethnocentric to say a religion isn't a religion just because it doesn't have the hallmark of our most well known religion.
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    @Socrates

    Is Buddism really a religion?
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    All Governments ARE terrible though?
    I can guarantee that if you ask around any country they will tell you the same.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    Socrates said:

    Smarmeron said:

    @BobaFett
    The books themselves are fine, it is how religions interpret them, and teach them by rote.
    And as Goves school reforms will show, it is a great way to stop "free thinking" ;-)

    I love how people react to an Islamic state doing some beastly by saying "aren't all religions awful!" Next time the government does something wrong, why don't we react by saying "Governments! They're all terrible!"
    Governments are terrible, but are marginally better than the alternative, the same cannot be said of religion.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    Socrates said:

    Smarmeron said:

    @BobaFett
    The books themselves are fine, it is how religions interpret them, and teach them by rote.
    And as Goves school reforms will show, it is a great way to stop "free thinking" ;-)

    I love how people react to an Islamic state doing some beastly by saying "aren't all religions awful!" Next time the government does something wrong, why don't we react by saying "Governments! They're all terrible!"
    Actually, isn't that how libertarians react?
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    notme said:

    ToryJim said:

    Anorak said:

    Depressing. Sudanese court sentences woman raised as a christian to death, because her (absent) father was a muslim, and she wont recant her christianity. She also gets 100 lashes for adultery as her marriage to another christian is not recognised under islamic law.

    The woman is 8 months pregnant.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-27424064

    Very depressing. It reinforces my loathing for organised religion of all forms.
    But it isnt organised religions of all forms, its a particular one.
    All religions have their sickness. The morally bankrupt Catholics, the filth that hide behind God in America etc etc etc.
    All religions, Mr. Woolie? All? Are you sure? You wouldn't consider that there might be some exceptions to that statement?
    All religions, yes. The mere holding of religious faith is a deficiency in and of itself IMO. A deficiency anyone is perfectly entitled to indulge in.
    All religions believe that the true believers alone will reach whatever Nirvava or renewed state of glory they have as their end goal, and, as such, are demonising others either now or in the assumed future. It's a wickedness, one we have to tolerate unfortunately.
    You hold a belief that anyone who holds a belief is or will be, by definition, demonising others and practising a wickedness.

    May I offer you a counter example? Taoism.

  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    rcs1000 said:

    Socrates said:

    Smarmeron said:

    @BobaFett
    The books themselves are fine, it is how religions interpret them, and teach them by rote.
    And as Goves school reforms will show, it is a great way to stop "free thinking" ;-)

    I love how people react to an Islamic state doing some beastly by saying "aren't all religions awful!" Next time the government does something wrong, why don't we react by saying "Governments! They're all terrible!"
    Actually, isn't that how libertarians react?
    Anarchists rather than libertarians, I would have thought.
  • Bond_James_BondBond_James_Bond Posts: 1,939
    SeanT said:

    It's no wonder Europe's fringe parties are on the march, some of the latest EU economic data is incredibly gloomy.

    e.g.

    @Jens_Bastian
    24th consecutive quarter of negative GDP numbers for @Greece Q1-2014.

    Imagine that. 24 consecutive quarters of a shrinking economy. 6 solid years, with barely an end in sight, and the increasing possibility it might get WORSE.

    When eurogeddon was at its height and it was speculated Greece might exit the euro, boffins said Oh no they can't do that, the economy will crash by 30%.

    After six years of unrelenting shrinkage, they must be close to that 30% drop in GDP anyway - yet they are still stuck in the euro.

    The euro remains a disaster zone. There's a serious chance of a hard right or even far right party seizing real power somewhere in the EU - if this continues.

    This is what life would look like under an ecofascist government (he writes, tying together the previous thread topics of climate psience and religion). They want a smaller world economy with fewer people, which can only be achieved by perpetual recession.
    Anorak said:

    Interesting comparison of religiosity (apparently a real word) and IQ by country.

    http://www.calamitiesofnature.com/archive/?c=619

    Religiosity certainly is a word, as is religiose. It means pious to the point where it's a preoccupation bordering on affectation, IIRC.

    Everything written by Milton and most stuff written in English prior to Marlowe was religiose.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,818
    edited May 2014
    rcs1000 said:

    Socrates said:

    Smarmeron said:

    @BobaFett
    The books themselves are fine, it is how religions interpret them, and teach them by rote.
    And as Goves school reforms will show, it is a great way to stop "free thinking" ;-)

    I love how people react to an Islamic state doing some beastly by saying "aren't all religions awful!" Next time the government does something wrong, why don't we react by saying "Governments! They're all terrible!"
    Actually, isn't that how libertarians react?
    Governments tend to be terrible if they follow dogma as laid down in a book though -be it Marxism or Mein Kampf

    But yes your point of lumping little old ladies holding Anglican church meetings with barbaric sharia laws regarding adultery and changing of religion is completely valid
  • DaemonBarberDaemonBarber Posts: 1,626
    BobaFett said:

    @Socrates

    Is Buddism really a religion?

    To answer this, first one must define religion...
  • NextNext Posts: 826
    SeanT said:

    Yeah, but I'm going to PARADISE, by way of Baccara bar, tonight.

    Do they do karaoke with these songs?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5vSYWPyJzE

  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,682
    rcs1000 said:

    Socrates said:

    Smarmeron said:

    @BobaFett
    The books themselves are fine, it is how religions interpret them, and teach them by rote.
    And as Goves school reforms will show, it is a great way to stop "free thinking" ;-)

    I love how people react to an Islamic state doing some beastly by saying "aren't all religions awful!" Next time the government does something wrong, why don't we react by saying "Governments! They're all terrible!"
    Actually, isn't that how libertarians react?
    No. And you should know better.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    I sense we are about to have an ‘all atheist are crap’ thread – I swear I can hear SeanT climbing out of his deck chair and lumbering towards the laptop.

    Yay, we need SeanT and his buddy J Christ here to spice things up. There should be a PB court case, Atheists versus the united team of Faithists.
    Not a good idea - I fear you would be exhibit (1) for the defense that you don't need to be religious to be angry and intolerant ; )
    Lol! Angry, I plead guilty. intolerant, not guilty as my postings show. I am more than happy to allow anyone to believe whatever nonsense they like. I even have friends who vote Labour.
    So I'll take whatever sentence the court deems appropriate for my wrath, and at the end of my long life allow my atoms to subside back into the fabric of existence, where they will remain, inviolate and at peace for as long as existence itself remains.
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    edited May 2014
    @HurstLlama

    I am a Zen Buddhist Christian with pagan leanings.
    I am basing my hope of salvation of Him/Her/It/Them having a bloody good sense of humour
  • eekeek Posts: 28,586
    rcs1000 said:


    Do you really believe the editor of the Sun or the Mail cares more about the Conservative's election performance than their own sales?

    No, but I'm seriously surprised anyone expects a paper to have a consistent viewpoint....
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    BobaFett said:

    @Socrates

    Is Buddism really a religion?

    To answer this, first one must define religion...
    This can get you into a silly place, however. It's like if you defined a swan as a large white bird that swims and then see a black one. Definitions should not be fixed but reflect reality.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189

    rcs1000 said:

    Socrates said:

    Smarmeron said:

    @BobaFett
    The books themselves are fine, it is how religions interpret them, and teach them by rote.
    And as Goves school reforms will show, it is a great way to stop "free thinking" ;-)

    I love how people react to an Islamic state doing some beastly by saying "aren't all religions awful!" Next time the government does something wrong, why don't we react by saying "Governments! They're all terrible!"
    Actually, isn't that how libertarians react?
    Governments tend to be terrible if they follow dogma as laid down in a book though -be it Marxism or Mein Kampf
    Very few people have read Das Kapital or Mein Kampf. I have never fully read either, getting bored about half way through each.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,507
    edited May 2014
    Have we done this yet today?

    http://order-order.com/2014/05/15/mo-ansar-exposed/

    Rather than read Staines, read the in depth articles from the likes of Nick Cohen.

    What beggars belief is that all these media organisation, like BBC, Sky, Guardian, etc have used this guy on such a regular basis and appear to have basically just found him on twitter.

    It makes you wonder where they get plenty of other "experts".

    When you make claims about being an academic, lawyer, even Imam, it doesn't take very much work to check that kinda of thing out.
  • Stuart_DicksonStuart_Dickson Posts: 3,557

    Ladbrokes Politics ‏@LadPolitics 1m

    An Independence from Europe; will they ruin UKIP bets? http://wp.me/p4Dp6d-2

    I think they will get more than 1.5% that Shadsy put the original (haven't looked lately) line at
    Shadsy's line is stil 1.5%. And his price is still 5/6.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976

    I sense we are about to have an ‘all atheist are crap’ thread – I swear I can hear SeanT climbing out of his deck chair and lumbering towards the laptop.

    Yay, we need SeanT and his buddy J Christ here to spice things up. There should be a PB court case, Atheists versus the united team of Faithists.
    Not a good idea - I fear you would be exhibit (1) for the defense that you don't need to be religious to be angry and intolerant ; )
    Lol! Angry, I plead guilty. intolerant, not guilty as my postings show. I am more than happy to allow anyone to believe whatever nonsense they like. I even have friends who vote Labour.
    So I'll take whatever sentence the court deems appropriate for my wrath, and at the end of my long life allow my atoms to subside back into the fabric of existence, where they will remain, inviolate and at peace for as long as existence itself remains.
    LOL, – if ‘Mr angry’ warranted a custodial sentence, you’d be banged up with half of PB. ; )
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    notme said:

    ToryJim said:

    Anorak said:

    Depressing. Sudanese court sentences woman raised as a christian to death, because her (absent) father was a muslim, and she wont recant her christianity. She also gets 100 lashes for adultery as her marriage to another christian is not recognised under islamic law.

    The woman is 8 months pregnant.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-27424064

    Very depressing. It reinforces my loathing for organised religion of all forms.
    But it isnt organised religions of all forms, its a particular one.
    All religions have their sickness. The morally bankrupt Catholics, the filth that hide behind God in America etc etc etc.
    All religions, Mr. Woolie? All? Are you sure? You wouldn't consider that there might be some exceptions to that statement?
    All religions, yes. The mere holding of religious faith is a deficiency in and of itself IMO. A deficiency anyone is perfectly entitled to indulge in.
    All religions believe that the true believers alone will reach whatever Nirvava or renewed state of glory they have as their end goal, and, as such, are demonising others either now or in the assumed future. It's a wickedness, one we have to tolerate unfortunately.
    You hold a belief that anyone who holds a belief is or will be, by definition, demonising others and practising a wickedness.

    May I offer you a counter example? Taoism.

    Taoists believe in practices which will extend their life to the point of immortality, calling the enlightened Xian (I think). The upshot of this is that only by following Taoist principles will one achieve their version of nirvana, the unbelievers subjected to a lesser existence of death. They hold a belief that the enlightened are therefore superior.
    They do not, as far as I know, proselytise, and are therefore less repulsive to me, but the central deficiency remains.
    Which, for clarity, I champion their right to hold and cherish. Much as I expect they and others would champion my right to find abhorrent in a truly enlightened society.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    Revolution in Wales?
    "I’ve just received the results from the latest [YouGov/Welsh Political Barometer] poll. You’ll have to wait until Monday for the details. All I can say for now is that sometimes polls produce rather dull, ‘steady as she goes’ findings. This is definitely not one of those polls."

    http://blogs.cardiff.ac.uk/electionsinwales/2014/05/15/something-to-look-forward-to/

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Parliament_election,_2014_(United_Kingdom)#Welsh_polls

    Looking at the February Wales poll.

    http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/why2okdhkr/YG-Archives-Pol-ITVWales-120214.pdf

    UKIP and the Greens seem to be the preferred destination of Labour swing voters for EU votes.

    Plaid and the LDs seem to be the preferred destination of Labour swing voters for WA votes.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    I sense we are about to have an ‘all atheist are crap’ thread – I swear I can hear SeanT climbing out of his deck chair and lumbering towards the laptop.

    Yay, we need SeanT and his buddy J Christ here to spice things up. There should be a PB court case, Atheists versus the united team of Faithists.
    Not a good idea - I fear you would be exhibit (1) for the defense that you don't need to be religious to be angry and intolerant ; )
    Lol! Angry, I plead guilty. intolerant, not guilty as my postings show. I am more than happy to allow anyone to believe whatever nonsense they like. I even have friends who vote Labour.
    So I'll take whatever sentence the court deems appropriate for my wrath, and at the end of my long life allow my atoms to subside back into the fabric of existence, where they will remain, inviolate and at peace for as long as existence itself remains.
    LOL, – if ‘Mr angry’ warranted a custodial sentence, you’d be banged up with half of PB. ; )
    And there would we create a Nirvana of our own, bile and bitterness easing us to sleep as if it were the songs of angels.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,818

    notme said:

    ToryJim said:

    Anorak said:

    Depressing. Sudanese court sentences woman raised as a christian to death, because her (absent) father was a muslim, and she wont recant her christianity. She also gets 100 lashes for adultery as her marriage to another christian is not recognised under islamic law.

    The woman is 8 months pregnant.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-27424064

    Very depressing. It reinforces my loathing for organised religion of all forms.
    But it isnt organised religions of all forms, its a particular one.
    All religions have their sickness. The morally bankrupt Catholics, the filth that hide behind God in America etc etc etc.
    All religions, Mr. Woolie? All? Are you sure? You wouldn't consider that there might be some exceptions to that statement?
    All religions, yes. The mere holding of religious faith is a deficiency in and of itself IMO. A deficiency anyone is perfectly entitled to indulge in.
    All religions believe that the true believers alone will reach whatever Nirvava or renewed state of glory they have as their end goal, and, as such, are demonising others either now or in the assumed future. It's a wickedness, one we have to tolerate unfortunately.
    You hold a belief that anyone who holds a belief is or will be, by definition, demonising others and practising a wickedness.

    May I offer you a counter example? Taoism.

    Taoists believe in practices which will extend their life to the point of immortality, calling the enlightened Xian (I think). The upshot of this is that only by following Taoist principles will one achieve their version of nirvana, the unbelievers subjected to a lesser existence of death. They hold a belief that the enlightened are therefore superior.
    They do not, as far as I know, proselytise, and are therefore less repulsive to me, but the central deficiency remains.
    Which, for clarity, I champion their right to hold and cherish. Much as I expect they and others would champion my right to find abhorrent in a truly enlightened society.
    Must be why Chinese live longer
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Smarmeron said:

    @HurstLlama

    I am a Zen Buddhist Christian with pagan leanings.
    I am basing my hope of salvation of Him/Her/It/Them having a bloody good sense of humour

    Taoist wing of the Church of England's Oxford movement myself. Just a bit surprised to find out this morning that I am a wicked person who goes round demonising others (according to Mr Woolie) and, even worse, according to Mr. Fett I "hate, maim and kill others" (I am sure I don't, I would have noticed and Mrs Llama would have complained about the blood stains on my laundry).
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    As someone who is an agnostic, but raised by religious parents, I do like The Bible.

    What's not to like about a book which features lines like

    "There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses." - Ezekiel 23:20

    and

    "Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love." Proverbs 5:19
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Given how everyone seems to hate religion here, why arent they all criticising those running the mosque that pretends to be a shop in Cricklewood, and supporting the German UKIP candidate, married to a Sri Lankan, who complained to the council about it and ended up being called racist in The Guardian?

  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    Smarmeron said:

    @HurstLlama

    I am a Zen Buddhist Christian with pagan leanings.
    I am basing my hope of salvation of Him/Her/It/Them having a bloody good sense of humour

    Taoist wing of the Church of England's Oxford movement myself. Just a bit surprised to find out this morning that I am a wicked person who goes round demonising others (according to Mr Woolie) and, even worse, according to Mr. Fett I "hate, maim and kill others" (I am sure I don't, I would have noticed and Mrs Llama would have complained about the blood stains on my laundry).
    Do you believe that all humans live equally in paradise after death?
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    The low down on quarterly donations. Tories outstripping Labour comfortably. I wonder how UKIPs clear lack of financial firepower will impact on their ability to fight the next election as it suggests they will have to backload their campaign as they won't be able to keep up with the capability of the main contenders.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27425997
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    isam said:

    Given how everyone seems to hate religion here, why arent they all criticising those running the mosque that pretends to be a shop in Cricklewood, and supporting the German UKIP candidate, married to a Sri Lankan, who complained to the council about it and ended up being called racist in The Guardian?

    Because I didn't know anything about it?
  • Bond_James_BondBond_James_Bond Posts: 1,939

    You'd be exactly as free or unfree as now. The default contract is now a year with a 6-month break clause. If you don;t like it, you can try to negotiate anything else. The proposed change would make the default 3 years. If you don't like that, you can try to negotiate anything else. Depends whether the landlord can be bothered to negotiate special terms.

    If that's all it is, it's nothing. I thought the plan was to force landlords to offer 3-year tenancies, with it being in the tenant's option to accept a shorter period. If it's optional either way, then nothing will change.

    If someone wants a 3-year tenancy but with the same right to break at a month's notice, I'd certainly accommodate them. But as such a deal is clearly worth more, I'm going to want to charge them more for it than I would for a 1-year.

    Something I've noted is that besides foaming UKIPpers, the DT's comment areas are also infested by a rather nasty bolus of anti-landlord clots. These people have typically been waiting 20 years for a house price crash, yet dispute that anyone who took on a BTL mortgage during that time was taking on any sort of risk - even the one they've spent 20 years being frightened of. Those people hate BTL landlords (essentially for having obtained a modest return on the very risk that both did and did not exist), and are adamant they should be stripped of most of their rights. I'd be very surprised if any of those people was prepared to pay a premium for a 3-year tenancy.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    isam said:

    Given how everyone seems to hate religion here, why arent they all criticising those running the mosque that pretends to be a shop in Cricklewood, and supporting the German UKIP candidate, married to a Sri Lankan, who complained to the council about it and ended up being called racist in The Guardian?

    Because winding up Kippers is much more fun than winding up religious people.
  • Bond_James_BondBond_James_Bond Posts: 1,939

    Smarmeron said:

    @SimonStClare

    I am fine with atheism, but its a mugs bet, agnosticism and belief both offer better odds

    Pascal's wager reheated...

    If you choose to "believe" in a God because it's a better bet, then what does that say about the God you choose to believe in?

    The whole atheist/agnostic distinction is a bit blurred anyway. I'm atheist, but am prepared to become a believer if sufficient evidence is presented. Not holding my breath.

    besides, I'd rather burn in the fires of Hell than prostrate myself before the God that created it.
    Pascal's Wager also wrongly supposes that there's no cost to religious belief.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    ToryJim said:

    The low down on quarterly donations. Tories outstripping Labour comfortably. I wonder how UKIPs clear lack of financial firepower will impact on their ability to fight the next election as it suggests they will have to backload their campaign as they won't be able to keep up with the capability of the main contenders.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27425997

    I think Mr Sykes has said he'll back UKIP in 2015 too.

  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    edited May 2014
    @HurstLlama

    We need an all religions conclave held in Jamaica under the auspices of the Rastafarians.
    After a year of wearing multi coloured tea cosies, and inhaling the ganga, we should have at least an outline agreement on what god is or whether it matters.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337

    Mr. Jim, don't use dinosaurs as insults. They were very intelligent and interesting animals.

    Even if velociraptor was about the size of a chicken.

    And they lasted a lot longer than Homo sapiens - about 200 times as long (or about 250? if one includes birds, which are a branch of the group).

  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189

    As someone who is an agnostic, but raised by religious parents, I do like The Bible.

    What's not to like about a book which features lines like

    "There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses." - Ezekiel 23:20

    and

    "Let her be as the loving hind and pleasant roe; let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love." Proverbs 5:19

    Oh the bible has been beautifully rendered into English and is full of juicy stuff.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    You'll all be pleased to know that I have arrived safely back in the UK this morning from my sojourn in Hong Kong. It rained and rained and rained there. The thunderstorms were biblical. Then it started to get humid. That was not so much fun. But, what a wonderful place - dynamic, can do, entrepreneurial and all the rest of it. However, you can overdo the bright, shiny optimism with Hong Kong and it's worth remembering that there is extraordinary poverty there too. This is truly shocking, for instance:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2558403/Hong-Kongs-caged-dogs-Poverty-stricken-people-forced-live-like-animals-one-worlds-wealthiest-densely-populated-cities.html

    Around 15% of people in HK live in abject poverty. And over there, it really is poverty. It is disturbing, really, how you do not seem to notice these desperately poor people after a while as they scrabble around rubbish bins and rubbish bags looking for scraps and stuff they can sell, or they beg on the walkways in Central. They just seem to blend in. Those that cannot afford the cages sleep rough. And when 500mm of rain can fall in a 24 hour period, as happened last weekend, that is not nice - to say the least.

    It's nothing like India, of course, where the squalor, the hunger, the disease and the homelessness are continuously and unavoidably in your face, but it does give you a sense of perspective about the UK. An argument along the lines of the poor should be grateful for what they get here is not one I find remotely appealing, but when you see real poverty with no safety net of any kind you do begin to wonder about the language of the debate we have, especially from sections of the left. The bottom line is that being at the bottom of the pile in society is just crap wherever you are, but it is a lot crapper in most of the rest of the world than it is here.

    But Hong Kong is also a very rich place, with the rich getting richer all the time. Taxation is low. At the same time inequality is increasing. Trickle down is not occurring.


  • NextNext Posts: 826

    Smarmeron said:

    @SimonStClare

    I am fine with atheism, but its a mugs bet, agnosticism and belief both offer better odds

    Pascal's wager reheated...

    If you choose to "believe" in a God because it's a better bet, then what does that say about the God you choose to believe in?

    The whole atheist/agnostic distinction is a bit blurred anyway. I'm atheist, but am prepared to become a believer if sufficient evidence is presented. Not holding my breath.

    besides, I'd rather burn in the fires of Hell than prostrate myself before the God that created it.
    Pascal's Wager also wrongly supposes that there's no cost to religious belief.
    Pascal's Wager also presumes that a God who created you, and therefore knows your thoughts, would be fooled by it.

  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,818
    Carnyx said:

    Mr. Jim, don't use dinosaurs as insults. They were very intelligent and interesting animals.

    Even if velociraptor was about the size of a chicken.

    And they lasted a lot longer than Homo sapiens - about 200 times as long (or about 250? if one includes birds, which are a branch of the group).

    I am sure you can get away with dissing dinosaurs as no sensitive T-Rex's are around to complain about hurt feelings anymore
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Smarmeron said:

    @HurstLlama

    I am a Zen Buddhist Christian with pagan leanings.
    I am basing my hope of salvation of Him/Her/It/Them having a bloody good sense of humour

    Taoist wing of the Church of England's Oxford movement myself. Just a bit surprised to find out this morning that I am a wicked person who goes round demonising others (according to Mr Woolie) and, even worse, according to Mr. Fett I "hate, maim and kill others" (I am sure I don't, I would have noticed and Mrs Llama would have complained about the blood stains on my laundry).
    Do you believe that all humans live equally in paradise after death?
    I am not sure that there is a paradise to go to after death therefore I cannot believe that all humans live equally in it.
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789

    isam said:

    Given how everyone seems to hate religion here, why arent they all criticising those running the mosque that pretends to be a shop in Cricklewood, and supporting the German UKIP candidate, married to a Sri Lankan, who complained to the council about it and ended up being called racist in The Guardian?

    Because winding up Kippers is much more fun than winding up religious people.
    LOL
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    ToryJim said:

    The low down on quarterly donations. Tories outstripping Labour comfortably. I wonder how UKIPs clear lack of financial firepower will impact on their ability to fight the next election as it suggests they will have to backload their campaign as they won't be able to keep up with the capability of the main contenders.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27425997

    Electoral Commission details.

    http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/find-information-by-subject/political-parties-campaigning-and-donations/donations-and-loans-to-political-parties/quarterly-donations-and-loans
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Daemon barber has it nailed.
    To take the example of Christianity (for so I was raised), and to review the conversation in the pub the other night. Am I truly expected accept that I have free will, which I never asked for and existence I never craved which must be spent in a world full of injustice, disease and destruction with a personal fight against mental illness and watching those I love, friends, family and acquaintances fight their own battles, with the associated trauma and tragedy of life, only at the end of it to be expected to bow my knee in front of the creator of this chaos, sacrifice my free will, apologise for my 'sins' and spend eternity in slavery to a psychopath?
    No thanks.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337

    Carnyx said:

    Mr. Jim, don't use dinosaurs as insults. They were very intelligent and interesting animals.

    Even if velociraptor was about the size of a chicken.

    And they lasted a lot longer than Homo sapiens - about 200 times as long (or about 250? if one includes birds, which are a branch of the group).

    I am sure you can get away with dissing dinosaurs as no sensitive T-Rex's are around to complain about hurt feelings anymore
    Yes, but how can I explain that to the blackbird pair who comes and collects currants off me at breakfast, lunch and teatime without upsetting the dears?

  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    @SouthamObserver

    Confucius him say "When trickle down" slows...the fire underneath get out of control.


    ( I might be paraphrasing)
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,564

    Diplomacy query (posting here because I'm the only one with a move so I'd rather get it resolved pronto): I've got a retreating fleet. My preference would be to move it to empty Belgium, but the fleet which displaced me came from there. Is that a permitted retreat move? I'd guess no, but want to check.

    Afraid not!
This discussion has been closed.