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SystemSystem Posts: 12,863
edited May 2020 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Betfair punters have got the LD leadership race about right – Moran has a good chance of beating Davey

We’ve now got the timetable for the LD leadership race and the successor to Jo Swinson will be announced at the end of August. It looks as though the race will be between Layla Moran and Ed Davey with Daisy Cooper as possibly another candidate.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    First light.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,566
    2nd to the dawn chorus...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,566
    I like Davey, and voted for him over Swinson last year. I may well do so again.

    I don't know enough of Daisy, but will have a look. I do like Layla, and she comes over fresh and bright on all media, but not convinced on leadership skills. She is a bit erratic.

  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    - ”In the aftermath of Jo Swinson unexpectedly losing her seat to the SNP”

    Nope, not unexpected. Not to anyone with a good grasp of Scots’ voting behaviour.

    I myself outlined the key dynamics in East Dunbartonshire in multiple posts pre-GE. Nobody was remotely interested at the time. Plus ça change.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,464
    Davey's positioning the party to the right of the Conservatives on economics is brave. He might look very clever this time next year, or he risks reminding voters that when push comes to shove, the LibDems back the Tories.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Foxy said:

    I like Davey, and voted for him over Swinson last year. I may well do so again.

    I don't know enough of Daisy, but will have a look. I do like Layla, and she comes over fresh and bright on all media, but not convinced on leadership skills. She is a bit erratic.

    I thought Davey was by far the better choice last time out, and I said so. With the benefit of hindsight, I was right.

    There is no dignity in kicking a dead corpse, but Swinson’s flaws were legion, and glaringly obvious to uninvolved observers. We need not list them now.

    I have not yet come to any conclusion for this new contest. All three of them look miles better than the last few leaders.

    Moran comes over very well on radio, but seeing her for the first time is a bit of a shock. This may sound superficial and misogynistic, but it is a serious point. When was the last time a truly odd-looking individual led a political party? (Margaret Beckett doesn’t really count.)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,810
    StuartDickson said:

    Foxy said:

    I like Davey, and voted for him over Swinson last year. I may well do so again.

    I don't know enough of Daisy, but will have a look. I do like Layla, and she comes over fresh and bright on all media, but not convinced on leadership skills. She is a bit erratic.

    I thought Davey was by far the better choice last time out, and I said so. With the benefit of hindsight, I was right.

    There is no dignity in kicking a dead corpse, but Swinson’s flaws were legion, and glaringly obvious to uninvolved observers. We need not list them now.

    I have not yet come to any conclusion for this new contest. All three of them look miles better than the last few leaders.

    Moran comes over very well on radio, but seeing her for the first time is a bit of a shock. This may sound superficial and misogynistic, but it is a serious point. When was the last time a truly odd-looking individual led a political party? (Margaret Beckett doesn’t really count.)
    Definitely gendered.
    Superficially, did (for example) Gordon Brown look particularly normal ?
    Or William Hague ?

    (And then again, what about Theresa May ?)

    I can’t deny the point, though. Some time with a stylist might help - a sensible thing for any new leader to consider, however superficial it might seem.
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,310
    StuartDickson said:

    Foxy said:

    I like Davey, and voted for him over Swinson last year. I may well do so again.

    I don't know enough of Daisy, but will have a look. I do like Layla, and she comes over fresh and bright on all media, but not convinced on leadership skills. She is a bit erratic.

    I thought Davey was by far the better choice last time out, and I said so. With the benefit of hindsight, I was right.

    There is no dignity in kicking a dead corpse, but Swinson’s flaws were legion, and glaringly obvious to uninvolved observers. We need not list them now.

    I have not yet come to any conclusion for this new contest. All three of them look miles better than the last few leaders.

    Moran comes over very well on radio, but seeing her for the first time is a bit of a shock. This may sound superficial and misogynistic, but it is a serious point. When was the last time a truly odd-looking individual led a political party? (Margaret Beckett doesn’t really count.)
    Isn’t there a saying that politics is show business for ugly people? I’m not sure any party leader in my lifetime, with the exceptions of Blair and Cameron, have been particular handsome.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,366
    Good morning, everyone.

    *insert 'definitely capable of beating a man' joke here*
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,710
    edited May 2020
    Nigelb said:

    StuartDickson said:

    Foxy said:

    I like Davey, and voted for him over Swinson last year. I may well do so again.

    I don't know enough of Daisy, but will have a look. I do like Layla, and she comes over fresh and bright on all media, but not convinced on leadership skills. She is a bit erratic.

    I thought Davey was by far the better choice last time out, and I said so. With the benefit of hindsight, I was right.

    There is no dignity in kicking a dead corpse, but Swinson’s flaws were legion, and glaringly obvious to uninvolved observers. We need not list them now.

    I have not yet come to any conclusion for this new contest. All three of them look miles better than the last few leaders.

    Moran comes over very well on radio, but seeing her for the first time is a bit of a shock. This may sound superficial and misogynistic, but it is a serious point. When was the last time a truly odd-looking individual led a political party? (Margaret Beckett doesn’t really count.)
    Definitely gendered.
    Superficially, did (for example) Gordon Brown look particularly normal ?
    Or William Hague ?

    (And then again, what about Theresa May ?)

    I can’t deny the point, though. Some time with a stylist might help - a sensible thing for any new leader to consider, however superficial it might seem.
    Moran appears to me to be a candidate to cement a solid national voter base of circa 10% for the libdems.
    Ambitious to be liked by existing supporters is a great way to get elected but a more difficult base to build on.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Fysics_Teacher said:

    StuartDickson said:

    Foxy said:

    I like Davey, and voted for him over Swinson last year. I may well do so again.

    I don't know enough of Daisy, but will have a look. I do like Layla, and she comes over fresh and bright on all media, but not convinced on leadership skills. She is a bit erratic.

    I thought Davey was by far the better choice last time out, and I said so. With the benefit of hindsight, I was right.

    There is no dignity in kicking a dead corpse, but Swinson’s flaws were legion, and glaringly obvious to uninvolved observers. We need not list them now.

    I have not yet come to any conclusion for this new contest. All three of them look miles better than the last few leaders.

    Moran comes over very well on radio, but seeing her for the first time is a bit of a shock. This may sound superficial and misogynistic, but it is a serious point. When was the last time a truly odd-looking individual led a political party? (Margaret Beckett doesn’t really count.)
    Isn’t there a saying that politics is show business for ugly people? I’m not sure any party leader in my lifetime, with the exceptions of Blair and Cameron, have been particular handsome.
    Please note that I did not say that Moran was ugly. Odd-looking is not the same thing.

    For example, Margaret Thatcher was most definitely odd-looking, but she was definitely not ugly. In fact, it seems to be universally accepted that the lady had a certain je ne sais quoi.

    It could even be argued that odd-looking leaders do unusually well: Churchill, Thatcher, Charlie Kennedy, Ian Paisley snr, Alex Salmond.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Nigelb said:

    StuartDickson said:

    Foxy said:

    I like Davey, and voted for him over Swinson last year. I may well do so again.

    I don't know enough of Daisy, but will have a look. I do like Layla, and she comes over fresh and bright on all media, but not convinced on leadership skills. She is a bit erratic.

    I thought Davey was by far the better choice last time out, and I said so. With the benefit of hindsight, I was right.

    There is no dignity in kicking a dead corpse, but Swinson’s flaws were legion, and glaringly obvious to uninvolved observers. We need not list them now.

    I have not yet come to any conclusion for this new contest. All three of them look miles better than the last few leaders.

    Moran comes over very well on radio, but seeing her for the first time is a bit of a shock. This may sound superficial and misogynistic, but it is a serious point. When was the last time a truly odd-looking individual led a political party? (Margaret Beckett doesn’t really count.)
    Definitely gendered.
    Superficially, did (for example) Gordon Brown look particularly normal ?
    Or William Hague ?

    (And then again, what about Theresa May ?)

    I can’t deny the point, though. Some time with a stylist might help - a sensible thing for any new leader to consider, however superficial it might seem.
    Gordon Brown looked very Scottish. He’s a dead-ringer for my brother-in-law. And vice versa: he once won a local newspaper competition for a Brown look-a-like.

    Hague never shook off the image of himself as a precocious, annoying schoolchild. The accent was odder than the look (ask radio 4’s Dead Ringers).

    Theresa May had an unfortunate look, but not really “odd”. Rather commonplace.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    edited May 2020
    philiph said:

    Nigelb said:

    StuartDickson said:

    Foxy said:

    I like Davey, and voted for him over Swinson last year. I may well do so again.

    I don't know enough of Daisy, but will have a look. I do like Layla, and she comes over fresh and bright on all media, but not convinced on leadership skills. She is a bit erratic.

    I thought Davey was by far the better choice last time out, and I said so. With the benefit of hindsight, I was right.

    There is no dignity in kicking a dead corpse, but Swinson’s flaws were legion, and glaringly obvious to uninvolved observers. We need not list them now.

    I have not yet come to any conclusion for this new contest. All three of them look miles better than the last few leaders.

    Moran comes over very well on radio, but seeing her for the first time is a bit of a shock. This may sound superficial and misogynistic, but it is a serious point. When was the last time a truly odd-looking individual led a political party? (Margaret Beckett doesn’t really count.)
    Definitely gendered.
    Superficially, did (for example) Gordon Brown look particularly normal ?
    Or William Hague ?

    (And then again, what about Theresa May ?)

    I can’t deny the point, though. Some time with a stylist might help - a sensible thing for any new leader to consider, however superficial it might seem.
    Moran appears to me to be a candidate to cement a solid national voter base of circa 10% for the libdems.
    Ambitious to be liked by existing supporters is a great way to get elected but a more difficult base to build on.
    Is that just a hunch, or evidence-based? How on earth can we judge such things?

    If you are correct (and I am very dubious) then that would be catastrophic for the Lib Dem’s. They desperately need ambition.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,534
    StuartDickson said:

    Fysics_Teacher said:

    StuartDickson said:

    Foxy said:

    I like Davey, and voted for him over Swinson last year. I may well do so again.

    I don't know enough of Daisy, but will have a look. I do like Layla, and she comes over fresh and bright on all media, but not convinced on leadership skills. She is a bit erratic.

    I thought Davey was by far the better choice last time out, and I said so. With the benefit of hindsight, I was right.

    There is no dignity in kicking a dead corpse, but Swinson’s flaws were legion, and glaringly obvious to uninvolved observers. We need not list them now.

    I have not yet come to any conclusion for this new contest. All three of them look miles better than the last few leaders.

    Moran comes over very well on radio, but seeing her for the first time is a bit of a shock. This may sound superficial and misogynistic, but it is a serious point. When was the last time a truly odd-looking individual led a political party? (Margaret Beckett doesn’t really count.)
    Isn’t there a saying that politics is show business for ugly people? I’m not sure any party leader in my lifetime, with the exceptions of Blair and Cameron, have been particular handsome.
    Please note that I did not say that Moran was ugly. Odd-looking is not the same thing.

    For example, Margaret Thatcher was most definitely odd-looking, but she was definitely not ugly. In fact, it seems to be universally accepted that the lady had a certain je ne sais quoi.

    It could even be argued that odd-looking leaders do unusually well: Churchill, Thatcher, Charlie Kennedy, Ian Paisley snr, Alex Salmond.
    Thatcher: just no. The ridiculous hair. That awful voice. The mad eyes. Surely only weird Tory MPs with a domination thing, and Francois Mitterrand, thought she had a certain je ne sais quoi? (I don't normally comment on female politicians' physical appearance but I will make an exception for Maggie).
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,566
    StuartDickson said:

    Fysics_Teacher said:

    StuartDickson said:

    Foxy said:

    I like Davey, and voted for him over Swinson last year. I may well do so again.

    I don't know enough of Daisy, but will have a look. I do like Layla, and she comes over fresh and bright on all media, but not convinced on leadership skills. She is a bit erratic.

    I thought Davey was by far the better choice last time out, and I said so. With the benefit of hindsight, I was right.

    There is no dignity in kicking a dead corpse, but Swinson’s flaws were legion, and glaringly obvious to uninvolved observers. We need not list them now.

    I have not yet come to any conclusion for this new contest. All three of them look miles better than the last few leaders.

    Moran comes over very well on radio, but seeing her for the first time is a bit of a shock. This may sound superficial and misogynistic, but it is a serious point. When was the last time a truly odd-looking individual led a political party? (Margaret Beckett doesn’t really count.)
    Isn’t there a saying that politics is show business for ugly people? I’m not sure any party leader in my lifetime, with the exceptions of Blair and Cameron, have been particular handsome.
    Please note that I did not say that Moran was ugly. Odd-looking is not the same thing.

    For example, Margaret Thatcher was most definitely odd-looking, but she was definitely not ugly. In fact, it seems to be universally accepted that the lady had a certain je ne sais quoi.

    It could even be argued that odd-looking leaders do unusually well: Churchill, Thatcher, Charlie Kennedy, Ian Paisley snr, Alex Salmond.
    I like Laylas geek chic, sexy librarian look. It seems natural on her, rather than contrived.

    I supported the Coalition, which looks like a golden era of good government in retrospect, so don't hold this against Davey.

    Others clearly do though, and I can see that many feel there is a time to move on. Davey is a much cannier politician than Swinson was, and wouldn't have made the same mistakes. That parliamentary nous is probably redundant in a Tory majority government, so not quite so critical now.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Davey's positioning the party to the right of the Conservatives on economics is brave. He might look very clever this time next year, or he risks reminding voters that when push comes to shove, the LibDems back the Tories.

    Scottish voters need no reminders. The SLD brand is fatally contaminated by the Cameron coalition years. I strongly recommend that they return to the proud old Scottish Liberals name: the dominant force in Victorian politics north of the border. The federal party in name should become the federal party in fact.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    StuartDickson said:

    Fysics_Teacher said:

    StuartDickson said:

    Foxy said:

    I like Davey, and voted for him over Swinson last year. I may well do so again.

    I don't know enough of Daisy, but will have a look. I do like Layla, and she comes over fresh and bright on all media, but not convinced on leadership skills. She is a bit erratic.

    I thought Davey was by far the better choice last time out, and I said so. With the benefit of hindsight, I was right.

    There is no dignity in kicking a dead corpse, but Swinson’s flaws were legion, and glaringly obvious to uninvolved observers. We need not list them now.

    I have not yet come to any conclusion for this new contest. All three of them look miles better than the last few leaders.

    Moran comes over very well on radio, but seeing her for the first time is a bit of a shock. This may sound superficial and misogynistic, but it is a serious point. When was the last time a truly odd-looking individual led a political party? (Margaret Beckett doesn’t really count.)
    Isn’t there a saying that politics is show business for ugly people? I’m not sure any party leader in my lifetime, with the exceptions of Blair and Cameron, have been particular handsome.
    Please note that I did not say that Moran was ugly. Odd-looking is not the same thing.

    For example, Margaret Thatcher was most definitely odd-looking, but she was definitely not ugly. In fact, it seems to be universally accepted that the lady had a certain je ne sais quoi.

    It could even be argued that odd-looking leaders do unusually well: Churchill, Thatcher, Charlie Kennedy, Ian Paisley snr, Alex Salmond.
    Thatcher: just no. The ridiculous hair. That awful voice. The mad eyes. Surely only weird Tory MPs with a domination thing, and Francois Mitterrand, thought she had a certain je ne sais quoi? (I don't normally comment on female politicians' physical appearance but I will make an exception for Maggie).
    This pains me to say... but I have a guilty secret...
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,310
    Nigelb said:

    StuartDickson said:

    Foxy said:

    I like Davey, and voted for him over Swinson last year. I may well do so again.

    I don't know enough of Daisy, but will have a look. I do like Layla, and she comes over fresh and bright on all media, but not convinced on leadership skills. She is a bit erratic.

    I thought Davey was by far the better choice last time out, and I said so. With the benefit of hindsight, I was right.

    There is no dignity in kicking a dead corpse, but Swinson’s flaws were legion, and glaringly obvious to uninvolved observers. We need not list them now.

    I have not yet come to any conclusion for this new contest. All three of them look miles better than the last few leaders.

    Moran comes over very well on radio, but seeing her for the first time is a bit of a shock. This may sound superficial and misogynistic, but it is a serious point. When was the last time a truly odd-looking individual led a political party? (Margaret Beckett doesn’t really count.)
    Definitely gendered.
    Superficially, did (for example) Gordon Brown look particularly normal ?
    Or William Hague ?

    (And then again, what about Theresa May ?)

    I can’t deny the point, though. Some time with a stylist might help - a sensible thing for any new leader to consider, however superficial it might seem.
    Brown did not look normal. He looked weird and had weird mannerisms. Who can forget the Christmas tree video or the fireside chat. He looked weird because he was weird.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,750
    Surely the Liberal Democrats wouldn’t elect Layla Moran?

    She’d be Corbyn on speed.
  • SockySocky Posts: 404
    As no one is going to say it - Layla Moran's private life would be a problem with ordinary voters.

    I think she comes across well in interviews, seems to be intelligent, and make sensible comments, but can you see her as PM?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,534
    StuartDickson said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    StuartDickson said:

    Fysics_Teacher said:

    StuartDickson said:

    Foxy said:

    I like Davey, and voted for him over Swinson last year. I may well do so again.

    I don't know enough of Daisy, but will have a look. I do like Layla, and she comes over fresh and bright on all media, but not convinced on leadership skills. She is a bit erratic.

    I thought Davey was by far the better choice last time out, and I said so. With the benefit of hindsight, I was right.

    There is no dignity in kicking a dead corpse, but Swinson’s flaws were legion, and glaringly obvious to uninvolved observers. We need not list them now.

    I have not yet come to any conclusion for this new contest. All three of them look miles better than the last few leaders.

    Moran comes over very well on radio, but seeing her for the first time is a bit of a shock. This may sound superficial and misogynistic, but it is a serious point. When was the last time a truly odd-looking individual led a political party? (Margaret Beckett doesn’t really count.)
    Isn’t there a saying that politics is show business for ugly people? I’m not sure any party leader in my lifetime, with the exceptions of Blair and Cameron, have been particular handsome.
    Please note that I did not say that Moran was ugly. Odd-looking is not the same thing.

    For example, Margaret Thatcher was most definitely odd-looking, but she was definitely not ugly. In fact, it seems to be universally accepted that the lady had a certain je ne sais quoi.

    It could even be argued that odd-looking leaders do unusually well: Churchill, Thatcher, Charlie Kennedy, Ian Paisley snr, Alex Salmond.
    Thatcher: just no. The ridiculous hair. That awful voice. The mad eyes. Surely only weird Tory MPs with a domination thing, and Francois Mitterrand, thought she had a certain je ne sais quoi? (I don't normally comment on female politicians' physical appearance but I will make an exception for Maggie).
    This pains me to say... but I have a guilty secret...
    Don't worry, I won't tell anybody. There's a certain member of the current Cabinet who I have a bit of a thing for, despite finding every aspect of her political views absolutely repulsive. These things happen, I won't judge you.
  • SockySocky Posts: 404
    To pre-empt - yes I know Boris has an "interesting" private life, but most people don't care.

    They do care about a female in the same situation. This is unfair I agree. I also suspect that women voters care more about this than men, which is somewhat ironic.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    https://twitter.com/CNBCJulianna/status/1263350907229569024?s=20
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,914
    https://www.twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1263093193853284352
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,750
    Socky said:

    As no one is going to say it - Layla Moran's private life would be a problem with ordinary voters.

    I think she comes across well in interviews, seems to be intelligent, and make sensible comments, but can you see her as PM?

    Well, that hardly matters for the Liberal Democrats at this moment. They had a fleeting opportunity to break back through last year and it receded. They now need to start thinking about replacing the SNP as the third party before they’ll even be taken seriously as coalition partners, never mind as a possible government. Realistically that would require a significant Labour revival north of the Tweed, and at best that is a long way off.

    I’m more thinking about (a) her unfortunate private life, as you say and (b) the fact she is the comfort blanket candidate. Like Corbyn, she would make the base feel good about themselves, but offer no prospect of reaching beyond it. The question for the Liberal Democrats is whether they just want to talk to themselves, or want to try and talk to the country. If it’s the first, then I am betting they will have no MPs in ten years.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,680
    edited May 2020
    StuartDickson said:

    Fysics_Teacher said:

    StuartDickson said:

    Foxy said:

    I like Davey, and voted for him over Swinson last year. I may well do so again.

    I don't know enough of Daisy, but will have a look. I do like Layla, and she comes over fresh and bright on all media, but not convinced on leadership skills. She is a bit erratic.

    I thought Davey was by far the better choice last time out, and I said so. With the benefit of hindsight, I was right.

    There is no dignity in kicking a dead corpse, but Swinson’s flaws were legion, and glaringly obvious to uninvolved observers. We need not list them now.

    I have not yet come to any conclusion for this new contest. All three of them look miles better than the last few leaders.

    Moran comes over very well on radio, but seeing her for the first time is a bit of a shock. This may sound superficial and misogynistic, but it is a serious point. When was the last time a truly odd-looking individual led a political party? (Margaret Beckett doesn’t really count.)
    Isn’t there a saying that politics is show business for ugly people? I’m not sure any party leader in my lifetime, with the exceptions of Blair and Cameron, have been particular handsome.
    Please note that I did not say that Moran was ugly. Odd-looking is not the same thing.

    For example, Margaret Thatcher was most definitely odd-looking, but she was definitely not ugly. In fact, it seems to be universally accepted that the lady had a certain je ne sais quoi.

    It could even be argued that odd-looking leaders do unusually well: Churchill, Thatcher, Charlie Kennedy, Ian Paisley snr, Alex Salmond.
    She is actually very attractive; her Palestinian heritage gives her an unusual look. Her dress sense however is hideous and I would hope the party will do what it didn’t with Swinson (but Labour did with Corbyn) and force her to take some appropriate advice.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,750
    IanB2 said:

    StuartDickson said:

    Fysics_Teacher said:

    StuartDickson said:

    Foxy said:

    I like Davey, and voted for him over Swinson last year. I may well do so again.

    I don't know enough of Daisy, but will have a look. I do like Layla, and she comes over fresh and bright on all media, but not convinced on leadership skills. She is a bit erratic.

    I thought Davey was by far the better choice last time out, and I said so. With the benefit of hindsight, I was right.

    There is no dignity in kicking a dead corpse, but Swinson’s flaws were legion, and glaringly obvious to uninvolved observers. We need not list them now.

    I have not yet come to any conclusion for this new contest. All three of them look miles better than the last few leaders.

    Moran comes over very well on radio, but seeing her for the first time is a bit of a shock. This may sound superficial and misogynistic, but it is a serious point. When was the last time a truly odd-looking individual led a political party? (Margaret Beckett doesn’t really count.)
    Isn’t there a saying that politics is show business for ugly people? I’m not sure any party leader in my lifetime, with the exceptions of Blair and Cameron, have been particular handsome.
    Please note that I did not say that Moran was ugly. Odd-looking is not the same thing.

    For example, Margaret Thatcher was most definitely odd-looking, but she was definitely not ugly. In fact, it seems to be universally accepted that the lady had a certain je ne sais quoi.

    It could even be argued that odd-looking leaders do unusually well: Churchill, Thatcher, Charlie Kennedy, Ian Paisley snr, Alex Salmond.
    She is actually very attractive; her Palestinian heritage gives her an unusual look. Her dress sense however is hideous and I would hope the party will do what it didn’t with Swinson (but Labour did with Corbyn) and force her to take some appropriate advice.
    I wonder if Cameron has ever regretted giving Corbyn sartorial advice?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 36,329
    Totally O/t of course, but on our walk yesterday we actually SAW a cuckoo. We'd heard it for quite a while, and it obviously wasn't far away, but then we saw it up in a tree.
  • SockySocky Posts: 404
    ydoethur said:

    Like Corbyn, [Moran] would make the base feel good about themselves, but offer no prospect of reaching beyond it. The question for the Liberal Democrats is whether they just want to talk to themselves, or want to try and talk to the country. If it’s the first, then I am betting they will have no MPs in ten years.

    Yes, I also have a feeling that the LDs are on a cliff edge.

    The 2019 election could have been a high-water mark - with Brexit and mad-Marxists running Labour. Next time they could easily see votes drift away left and right.

    I think this might be an invest or die moment for them.
  • SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 824
    The politician I find odd looking is Annelaise Dodd (her name even contains the word "odd"). She looks like the scatty mother at the school gates and does not inspire confidence in me that she could run the economy, based on her looks.
    I know this is very superficial but so much of politics these days is about image.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,680
    StuartDickson said:

    Nigelb said:

    StuartDickson said:

    Foxy said:

    I like Davey, and voted for him over Swinson last year. I may well do so again.

    I don't know enough of Daisy, but will have a look. I do like Layla, and she comes over fresh and bright on all media, but not convinced on leadership skills. She is a bit erratic.

    I thought Davey was by far the better choice last time out, and I said so. With the benefit of hindsight, I was right.

    There is no dignity in kicking a dead corpse, but Swinson’s flaws were legion, and glaringly obvious to uninvolved observers. We need not list them now.

    I have not yet come to any conclusion for this new contest. All three of them look miles better than the last few leaders.

    Moran comes over very well on radio, but seeing her for the first time is a bit of a shock. This may sound superficial and misogynistic, but it is a serious point. When was the last time a truly odd-looking individual led a political party? (Margaret Beckett doesn’t really count.)
    Definitely gendered.
    Superficially, did (for example) Gordon Brown look particularly normal ?
    Or William Hague ?

    (And then again, what about Theresa May ?)

    I can’t deny the point, though. Some time with a stylist might help - a sensible thing for any new leader to consider, however superficial it might seem.
    Gordon Brown looked very Scottish. He’s a dead-ringer for my brother-in-law. And vice versa: he once won a local newspaper competition for a Brown look-a-like.

    Hague never shook off the image of himself as a precocious, annoying schoolchild. The accent was odder than the look (ask radio 4’s Dead Ringers).

    Theresa May had an unfortunate look, but not really “odd”. Rather commonplace.
    Theresa looked normal but had some very abnormal mannerisms.
    If Americans can vote for Trump we can conclude that appearance by itself isn't that critical.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,750
    Socky said:

    ydoethur said:

    Like Corbyn, [Moran] would make the base feel good about themselves, but offer no prospect of reaching beyond it. The question for the Liberal Democrats is whether they just want to talk to themselves, or want to try and talk to the country. If it’s the first, then I am betting they will have no MPs in ten years.

    Yes, I also have a feeling that the LDs are on a cliff edge.

    The 2019 election could have been a high-water mark - with Brexit and mad-Marxists running Labour. Next time they could easily see votes drift away left and right.

    I think this might be an invest or die moment for them.
    What would be tragic is that this situation is also an opportunity. Starmer may be sane and intelligent, but he’s also pretty left wing. Politically he is a Kinnock, not a Blair or even a Miliband. Whether he tacks towards the centre as leader remains to be seen, particularly given the obstacles in his way. Meanwhile under Johnson the Tories are as hard right and populist as they have ever been. All other parties in the Commons are essentially single issue pressure groups.

    So there is an enormous gap in the centre to be exploited, and one that really needs exploiting. But can the Liberal Democrats do it? Heck, do they even want to?

    That is the question.
  • SockySocky Posts: 404
    edited May 2020
    IanB2 said:

    I would hope the party will do what it didn’t with Swinson (but Labour did with Corbyn) and force her to take some appropriate advice.

    Weird anecdote: I sat next to Swinson on the bus last year (Mmmm... I know you from somewhere...). She was wearing the red dress she seemed to favour for TV interviews. I thought she was actually very attractive in the real world, but I agree; TV did her no favours.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,862
    I really don't think odd looking makes much difference . Sometimes it can be a help (to stand out in people's minds especially early on in a career when public and sometimes peer recognition is key). Even odd behavior (eccentric not immoral or selfish) helps sometimes to stand out. All the better if natural.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,680
    Socky said:

    IanB2 said:

    I would hope the party will do what it didn’t with Swinson (but Labour did with Corbyn) and force her to take some appropriate advice.

    Weird anecdote, I sat next to Swinson on the bus last year (Mmmm... I know you from somewhere...). She was wearing the red dress she seemed to favour for TV interviews. I thought she was actually very attractive in the real world, but I agree; TV did her no favours.
    Her wardrobe consisted of identical dresses in a range of single usually bright colours. On TV it made her look somewhat retarded.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,862
    IanB2 said:

    Socky said:

    IanB2 said:

    I would hope the party will do what it didn’t with Swinson (but Labour did with Corbyn) and force her to take some appropriate advice.

    Weird anecdote, I sat next to Swinson on the bus last year (Mmmm... I know you from somewhere...). She was wearing the red dress she seemed to favour for TV interviews. I thought she was actually very attractive in the real world, but I agree; TV did her no favours.
    Her wardrobe consisted of identical dresses in a range of single usually bright colours. On TV it made her look somewhat retarded.
    Very bitchy!
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,108
    edited May 2020
    One thing is clear, the Lib Dems are not electing a Prime Minister in waiting. What they do need to do to serve a useful purpose in the 2020s is far less clear.

    I would say this, but if I were them I would look to the 1990s. Lay a foundation in local government. Start to win local elections and by elections. Align themselves so that are nominally equidistant, but in a way that they can benefit from disillusioned soft Tories that cannot switch to Labour. Try to come up with some fresh ideas that they might want to see implemented by a minority Labour government. Bury the coalition.

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,353
    A whole thread about how weird someone looks, while Worzel Gummidge is still the PM...
  • coachcoach Posts: 250
    Layla Moran would quickly become a figure of fun
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Wishful thinking?

    https://twitter.com/Independent/status/1263360375224799235?s=20
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Andy_JS said:

    https://www.twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1263093193853284352

    Unless I have misread the tables, what stands out in those tables is the number of people who rate Biden as very unfavourable.

    Trump 39% very favourable, 47% very unfavourably
    Biden 22% very favourably, 48% very unfavourably

    Trump you would expect to polarise but incredible that Biden's very unfavourably score is higher than Trump's. Wonder if the allegations against Biden are hitting home.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,750
    CarlottaVance said:

    Wishful thinking?

    https://twitter.com/Independent/status/1263360375224799235?s=20

    The problem with such analyses is we all expected him to lose by a clear if not large margin last time.

    And he didn’t.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,897
    CarlottaVance said:

    Wishful thinking?

    https://twitter.com/Independent/status/1263360375224799235?s=20

    99.9% chance.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,566
    edited May 2020
    Socky said:

    IanB2 said:

    I would hope the party will do what it didn’t with Swinson (but Labour did with Corbyn) and force her to take some appropriate advice.

    Weird anecdote, I sat next to Swinson on the bus last year (Mmmm... I know you from somewhere...). She was wearing the red dress she seemed to favour for TV interviews. I thought she was actually very attractive in the real world, but I agree; TV did her no favours.
    Yes, she is quite a looker, in the flesh.

    I met Fergie (when she was Duchess of York) in the late Eighties, when she came visiting a friend on my ward. She also was quite a stunner, though incapable of photographing well.

    Davey is not much to look at, but I think his canniness and political antenna would be useful if confidence and supply had to be negotiated with Starmer. He would be anathema to the hard left of couse.

    Someone advocating financial sanity as a party leader would be a novelty and USP!
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Socky said:

    As no one is going to say it - Layla Moran's private life would be a problem with ordinary voters.

    I think she comes across well in interviews, seems to be intelligent, and make sensible comments, but can you see her as PM?

    PM? A Lib Dem? Puhrleeeese.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited May 2020
    Andy_JS said:

    https://www.twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1263093193853284352

    There are fascinating results in there that would make me reconsider my position more if it was by basically anyone else apart from change who have been totally useless during the Primary season
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,566
    ydoethur said:

    Surely the Liberal Democrats wouldn’t elect Layla Moran?

    She’d be Corbyn on speed.

    Corbyn on Acid more like!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,467
    CarlottaVance said:

    Wishful thinking?

    https://twitter.com/Independent/status/1263360375224799235?s=20

    Well Trump is behind in the polling average too.

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_biden-6247.html

    & If you go by the theory that sitting presidents either win or lose the election without much to do with their opponent the economy being in a poor state in November can't help his chances.

    I think Biden winning Missouri is a stretch but he should be favourite ahead of Trump.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    No pleasing some people....

    https://twitter.com/BBCWorld/status/1263365357709996032?s=20
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,750
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Surely the Liberal Democrats wouldn’t elect Layla Moran?

    She’d be Corbyn on speed.

    Corbyn on Acid more like!
    I’ll take your word for it. I wouldn’t know about the effects of drugs. 😇
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,750
    CarlottaVance said:

    No pleasing some people....

    https://twitter.com/BBCWorld/status/1263365357709996032?s=20

    They’re being given a hard time?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,332
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Surely the Liberal Democrats wouldn’t elect Layla Moran?

    She’d be Corbyn on speed.

    Corbyn on Acid more like!
    Can't say I know too much about her, other than a few TV appearances. Nothing I have seen tells me she will be a transformation in LibDem fortunes to be honest.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    OldKingCole said:

    Totally O/t of course, but on our walk yesterday we actually SAW a cuckoo. We'd heard it for quite a while, and it obviously wasn't far away, but then we saw it up in a tree.

    O/t? Dunno ‘bout that. Lib Dems and cuckoos. I can see the connection.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,108
    edited May 2020
    I was sitting on the bus next to Corbyn (or was it Boris, I can’t remember). He was wearing one of those crumpled, ill fitting suits and funny hair/hat he loves to wear. Far more attractive in the flesh than on the telly. Stunning, attractive, a looker even. He just doesn’t photograph well.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,332
    ydoethur said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Wishful thinking?

    https://twitter.com/Independent/status/1263360375224799235?s=20

    The problem with such analyses is we all expected him to lose by a clear if not large margin last time.

    And he didn’t.
    I refuse to allow my poor brain even a second's worth of thinking that Trump loses in a landslide. It is dangerous to have hope on that kind of scale.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,141
    StuartDickson said:

    Fysics_Teacher said:

    StuartDickson said:

    Foxy said:

    I like Davey, and voted for him over Swinson last year. I may well do so again.

    I don't know enough of Daisy, but will have a look. I do like Layla, and she comes over fresh and bright on all media, but not convinced on leadership skills. She is a bit erratic.

    I thought Davey was by far the better choice last time out, and I said so. With the benefit of hindsight, I was right.

    There is no dignity in kicking a dead corpse, but Swinson’s flaws were legion, and glaringly obvious to uninvolved observers. We need not list them now.

    I have not yet come to any conclusion for this new contest. All three of them look miles better than the last few leaders.

    Moran comes over very well on radio, but seeing her for the first time is a bit of a shock. This may sound superficial and misogynistic, but it is a serious point. When was the last time a truly odd-looking individual led a political party? (Margaret Beckett doesn’t really count.)
    Isn’t there a saying that politics is show business for ugly people? I’m not sure any party leader in my lifetime, with the exceptions of Blair and Cameron, have been particular handsome.
    Please note that I did not say that Moran was ugly. Odd-looking is not the same thing.

    For example, Margaret Thatcher was most definitely odd-looking, but she was definitely not ugly. In fact, it seems to be universally accepted that the lady had a certain je ne sais quoi.

    It could even be argued that odd-looking leaders do unusually well: Churchill, Thatcher, Charlie Kennedy, Ian Paisley snr, Alex Salmond.
    Both 'odd looking' and 'unusually well' are terms working overtime here. Churchill and the Blessed Margaret's sort of 'unusually' well contrast a bit with the fundamentalist religious lunatic, the nice amusing chap who likes a drink and er... Mr Salmond, that Garibaldi of the free Scots.

  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,423
    Jonathan said:

    I wa sitting on the bus next to Corbyn (or was it Boris, I can’t remember). He was wearing one of those crumpled, ill fitting suits and funny hair/hat he loves to wear. Far more attractive in the flesh than on the telly. Stunning, a looker even. He just doesn’t photograph well.

    Is this the modern "I had that Michael Parkinson in the back of my cab the other day .."?

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,467
    I remember seeing Robin Cook walking down a train carriage once.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,750
    rottenborough said:

    ydoethur said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Wishful thinking?

    https://twitter.com/Independent/status/1263360375224799235?s=20

    The problem with such analyses is we all expected him to lose by a clear if not large margin last time.

    And he didn’t.
    I refuse to allow my poor brain even a second's worth of thinking that Trump loses in a landslide. It is dangerous to have hope on that kind of scale.
    Think of it this way. From your point of view, the worst has been avoided.

    He’s not going to beat Bernie Sanders in a landslide.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,538
    Morning all! An interesting thread which my 6 months as a LibDem gives me no rights to comment on. Ah well...

    I think Davey is doing a perfectly solid job and had committed to vote for him until my departure. The coalition like all governments did Good and Bad with the LibDems responsible for many of the bits people remember as good. Running away from their record in office would be Corbynite levels of stupid when they attack Blair and Brown endlessly. Davey I think can manage the balance between "here's what we did good" and "here's what we did bad" whilst looking like a grown up politician.

    Swinson had Pzazz but no real substance underneath it and made the grave mistake of believing her own spin regardless of evidence. Hubris and arrogance is the downfall of many politicians and she was no exception - I read the "What went wrong" report into the election and the party deserves massive credit for both commissioning and publishing warts and all. But "Flight of Icarus" was a simpler summary.

    I wasn't a good fit with the LibDems. Part of their party overlaps with my perspective and I was truly made welcome. But their internal battle between classic Liberals and Social Democrats which I guess goes back 30 odd years to the merger hasn't been resolved. I found it hard to state what the party was for despite thinking the 2019 manifesto was excellent. Unless they can figure this out they will struggle for traction in what is still a bipolar Labour/Tory are evil vote Tory/Labour world.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,081
    Jonathan said:

    One thing is clear, the Lib Dems are not electing a Prime Minister in waiting. What they do need to do to serve a useful purpose in the 2020s is far less clear.

    I would say this, but if I were them I would look to the 1990s. Lay a foundation in local government. Start to win local elections and by elections. Align themselves so that are nominally equidistant, but in a way that they can benefit from disillusioned soft Tories that cannot switch to Labour. Try to come up with some fresh ideas that they might want to see implemented by a minority Labour government. Bury the coalition.

    That sounds like a plan! I am not sure if Layla the one to take it forward. I think Davey could.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    SandraMc said:

    The politician I find odd looking is Annelaise Dodd (her name even contains the word "odd"). She looks like the scatty mother at the school gates and does not inspire confidence in me that she could run the economy, based on her looks.
    I know this is very superficial but so much of politics these days is about image.

    Nah, that’s just a typical Scottish private schoolgirl look. Prefect type. Very Aberdonian.

    Anyway, as a Scottish Labourite, Anneliese Dodds is not going to be running any economies anytime in the foreseeable future.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Scott_xP said:

    A whole thread about how weird someone looks, while Worzel Gummidge is still the PM...

    Now that was nice prose. I retract my rude comments.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    MrEd said:

    Andy_JS said:

    https://www.twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1263093193853284352

    Unless I have misread the tables, what stands out in those tables is the number of people who rate Biden as very unfavourable.

    Trump 39% very favourable, 47% very unfavourably
    Biden 22% very favourably, 48% very unfavourably

    Trump you would expect to polarise but incredible that Biden's very unfavourably score is higher than Trump's. Wonder if the allegations against Biden are hitting home.
    The poll also has Sanders named in it. So Biden will be getting Sanders voters rating him unfavourably.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,108
    Mexicanpete said:

    Jonathan said:

    One thing is clear, the Lib Dems are not electing a Prime Minister in waiting. What they do need to do to serve a useful purpose in the 2020s is far less clear.

    I would say this, but if I were them I would look to the 1990s. Lay a foundation in local government. Start to win local elections and by elections. Align themselves so that are nominally equidistant, but in a way that they can benefit from disillusioned soft Tories that cannot switch to Labour. Try to come up with some fresh ideas that they might want to see implemented by a minority Labour government. Bury the coalition.

    That sounds like a plan! I am not sure if Layla the one to take it forward. I think Davey could.
    Not sure Sir Ed Davey is perfectly positioned to bury the coalition or to promote interesting fresh ideas. Moran is a better choice if she can establish a team around her.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,332
    edited May 2020
    A personal cap on care costs in England was being considered by ministers prior to the coronavirus outbreak, the BBC has learned.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52748652

    They're having a laugh right? Ministers I mean. They had ""90% agreement" but nothing happened.

    They are just trolling us now on reform of social care.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,081
    rottenborough said:

    ydoethur said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Wishful thinking?

    https://twitter.com/Independent/status/1263360375224799235?s=20

    The problem with such analyses is we all expected him to lose by a clear if not large margin last time.

    And he didn’t.
    I refuse to allow my poor brain even a second's worth of thinking that Trump loses in a landslide. It is dangerous to have hope on that kind of scale.
    He might accept a landslide defeat more readily. If it turns on a state or two Trump won't accept that. It is hard to predict what comes next should he lose marginally, but he is Commander in Chief and he does have the DOJ in his pocket.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,332
    Mexicanpete said:

    rottenborough said:

    ydoethur said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Wishful thinking?

    https://twitter.com/Independent/status/1263360375224799235?s=20

    The problem with such analyses is we all expected him to lose by a clear if not large margin last time.

    And he didn’t.
    I refuse to allow my poor brain even a second's worth of thinking that Trump loses in a landslide. It is dangerous to have hope on that kind of scale.
    He might accept a landslide defeat more readily. If it turns on a state or two Trump won't accept that. It is hard to predict what comes next should he lose marginally, but he is Commander in Chief and he does have the DOJ in his pocket.
    Yes, it's a huge worry.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    edited May 2020
    Pulpstar said:

    I remember seeing Robin Cook walking down a train carriage once.

    John Smith in the bar car of the Edinburgh Sleeper, holding court to adoring acolytes, "thirsty".

    Charles Clarke on the opposite escalator at Victoria, red in the face

    Michael Heseltine behind me in the queue for a payphone at King Cross - it wasn't working.

    Betty Boothroyd on the number 82 bus.

    Mrs T in the Holiday Inn Cramlington (power had been cut the day before as Special Branch searched for bombs)

    The Queen at Newcastle Races.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,353
    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1263370717720174592
  • SockySocky Posts: 404
    edited May 2020
    Jonathan said:

    I was sitting on the bus next to Corbyn (or was it Boris, I can’t remember).

    I realise my comment was open to satire, but I thought it worth posting as I think it might help explain why sometimes politicians that come over badly with the public, are backed by their own parties.

    To me, as a non-supporter, Davey is the obvious choice - more pros less cons.

    I suspect Layla Moran is more appealing to LDs, but perhaps only to them.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,353
    https://twitter.com/pkelso/status/1263371541707882496
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    Alistair said:

    MrEd said:

    Andy_JS said:

    https://www.twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1263093193853284352

    Unless I have misread the tables, what stands out in those tables is the number of people who rate Biden as very unfavourable.

    Trump 39% very favourable, 47% very unfavourably
    Biden 22% very favourably, 48% very unfavourably

    Trump you would expect to polarise but incredible that Biden's very unfavourably score is higher than Trump's. Wonder if the allegations against Biden are hitting home.
    The poll also has Sanders named in it. So Biden will be getting Sanders voters rating him unfavourably.
    Don't think it is that. You would have to have had a very large disproportionate of Sanders voters in there and the sample size is nearly 6000. Sanders very unfavourable rating is 49%, so my reading would be that Republican voters rate Biden and Sanders equally unfavourably.

    But if Biden is only getting 22% very favourable ratings and his very unfavourable ratings are equal to Trump, I can see a lack of enthusiasm for Biden being a real problem.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,108
    Socky said:

    Jonathan said:

    I was sitting on the bus next to Corbyn (or was it Boris, I can’t remember).

    I realise my comment was open to satire, but I thought it worth posting as I think it might help explain why sometimes politicians that come over badly with the public, are backed by their own parties.

    To me, as a non-supporter, Davey is the obvious choice - more pros less cons.

    I suspect Layla Moran is more appealing to LDs, but perhaps only to them.
    I can’t see the appeal of Davey. All of the coalition baggage, but nothing to spark an interest.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,332
    Rolls Royce news very bad for East Midlands. 9K redundancies with 1000s more in supply chain likely.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 12,127
    IanB2 said:

    Socky said:

    IanB2 said:

    I would hope the party will do what it didn’t with Swinson (but Labour did with Corbyn) and force her to take some appropriate advice.

    Weird anecdote, I sat next to Swinson on the bus last year (Mmmm... I know you from somewhere...). She was wearing the red dress she seemed to favour for TV interviews. I thought she was actually very attractive in the real world, but I agree; TV did her no favours.
    Her wardrobe consisted of identical dresses in a range of single usually bright colours. On TV it made her look somewhat retarded.
    Surely "Libtarded" is the adjective of choice in our so-wonderful modern social media world?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,538
    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/pkelso/status/1263371541707882496

    No its fine. Its a government who as Boris said yesterday has considered its options and has actively chosen to portray its morality in this way. Please come. Save my life. It'll cost you.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1263370717720174592

    Childish "U-turn" "Govt in Trouble".

    If the government weren't changing their mind in a fast evolving situation we'd be in trouble.

    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
  • SockySocky Posts: 404
    Jonathan said:

    I can’t see the appeal of Davey. All of the coalition baggage, but nothing to spark an interest.

    But are you someone who does not vote LD, but might if they presented a good case?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 13,129
    Andy_JS said:

    https://www.twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1263093193853284352

    Isn’t the utility of this poll suspect without a breakdown of intention within each of the five named states, which there doesn’t seem to be? They don’t vote as a bloc. One of the five states could skew this poll while the rest go the other way.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,353
    https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1263367720051126278
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,810
    Socky said:

    IanB2 said:

    I would hope the party will do what it didn’t with Swinson (but Labour did with Corbyn) and force her to take some appropriate advice.

    Weird anecdote: I sat next to Swinson on the bus last year (Mmmm... I know you from somewhere...). She was wearing the red dress she seemed to favour for TV interviews. I thought she was actually very attractive in the real world, but I agree; TV did her no favours.
    Not particularly weird.

    People do look very different on camera. It's no more superficial than most of the rest of politics for political leaders to realise this and take some advice on image from those who know what comes across well on TV.

    The benefits in relation to the effort involved are considerable.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 13,456
    RochdalePioneers said:

    Morning all! An interesting thread which my 6 months as a LibDem gives me no rights to comment on. Ah well...

    I think Davey is doing a perfectly solid job and had committed to vote for him until my departure. The coalition like all governments did Good and Bad with the LibDems responsible for many of the bits people remember as good. Running away from their record in office would be Corbynite levels of stupid when they attack Blair and Brown endlessly. Davey I think can manage the balance between "here's what we did good" and "here's what we did bad" whilst looking like a grown up politician.

    Swinson had Pzazz but no real substance underneath it and made the grave mistake of believing her own spin regardless of evidence. Hubris and arrogance is the downfall of many politicians and she was no exception - I read the "What went wrong" report into the election and the party deserves massive credit for both commissioning and publishing warts and all. But "Flight of Icarus" was a simpler summary.

    I wasn't a good fit with the LibDems. Part of their party overlaps with my perspective and I was truly made welcome. But their internal battle between classic Liberals and Social Democrats which I guess goes back 30 odd years to the merger hasn't been resolved. I found it hard to state what the party was for despite thinking the 2019 manifesto was excellent. Unless they can figure this out they will struggle for traction in what is still a bipolar Labour/Tory are evil vote Tory/Labour world.

    RP that was interesting and sorry to lose you back to Labour. I am interested in one point you make which I would appreciate an expansion on. I am a Liberal. I am definitely not a Social Democrat, However I don't find any issue with the fit and have never seen an issue with it. Can you elaborate?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    coach said:

    Layla Moran would quickly become a figure of fun

    Perfect match for her party then.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,810
    CarlottaVance said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1263370717720174592

    Childish "U-turn" "Govt in Trouble".

    If the government weren't changing their mind in a fast evolving situation we'd be in trouble.

    A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.
    It has little to do with a 'fast evolving situation' and rather more with them realising the policy looks mean and stupid.

    Not to mention the fact that the PM apparently can't tell the difference between one year and four when it comes to costings.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    https://twitter.com/AlexGabuev/status/1263369466357956608?s=20
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,332
    Who could have believed that the British government could make a mess of an IT project?

    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/coronavirus-uk-contact-trace-app-matt-hancock-postpone-release-a9524696.html


    At least half of us on PB.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,108
    Socky said:

    Jonathan said:

    I can’t see the appeal of Davey. All of the coalition baggage, but nothing to spark an interest.

    But are you someone who does not vote LD, but might if they presented a good case?
    For 20 years the Lib Dems were my number two choice. A receptacle for an “Anti-Tory” tactical or “none of the above” protest vote, or who you voted for there when there wasn’t a Labour candidate.

    Since 2010 they no longer offer a viable tactical or protest option. The latter none of the above vote being their stock in trade that kept them winning by-elections. At the very least they need to get back to that.
  • JonCisBackJonCisBack Posts: 911
    I wonder if you showed the header picture to people in the street how many would be able to identify them all. Not many I imagine.

    I got 2 out of 3
  • kjhkjh Posts: 13,456
    DougSeal said:

    Andy_JS said:

    https://www.twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1263093193853284352

    Isn’t the utility of this poll suspect without a breakdown of intention within each of the five named states, which there doesn’t seem to be? They don’t vote as a bloc. One of the five states could skew this poll while the rest go the other way.
    Yes, it is useless.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 36,329
    StuartDickson said:

    OldKingCole said:

    Totally O/t of course, but on our walk yesterday we actually SAW a cuckoo. We'd heard it for quite a while, and it obviously wasn't far away, but then we saw it up in a tree.

    O/t? Dunno ‘bout that. Lib Dems and cuckoos. I can see the connection.
    LOL!
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,192
    JonCisBack said:

    I wonder if you showed the header picture to people in the street how many would be able to identify them all. Not many I imagine.

    I got 2 out of 3

    I did not even know that the LDs were having a leadership contest. Swinson went nearly 6 months ago.

    And to think people called Labour's process "slow" :D:D
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,810
    rottenborough said:

    Rolls Royce news very bad for East Midlands. 9K redundancies with 1000s more in supply chain likely.

    And in the current circumstances, I'd guess the US will award the contract to re-engine the B52* to a domestic manufacturer.
    https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/aircraft-propulsion/usaf-opens-bidding-phase-b-52-re-engine-competition

    *Which could eventually be the first (and probably only) military aircraft to be in service for a century.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 41,153
    rottenborough said:

    Who could have believed that the British government could make a mess of an IT project?

    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/coronavirus-uk-contact-trace-app-matt-hancock-postpone-release-a9524696.html


    At least half of us on PB.

    But we were assured by so many that the government would be able to make it work, our experts are the best in the world and couldn't possibly be wrong.

    This is going to cost an additional £20bn in economic support. If Hancock wasn't already the human shield he's just becone one. He will carry the can for pretty much al of the failures, they're all in his shop.
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,549
    Pulpstar said:

    I remember seeing Robin Cook walking down a train carriage once.

    What a wonderful, rich and colourful anecdote.

    You are Sir Peter Ustinov, and I claim my £5.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,596
    There might be a few puzzle types who will appreciate this.

    https://youtu.be/yKf9aUIxdb4
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,069
    Beibheirli_C said:

    JonCisBack said:

    I wonder if you showed the header picture to people in the street how many would be able to identify them all. Not many I imagine.

    I got 2 out of 3

    I did not even know that the LDs were having a leadership contest. Swinson went nearly 6 months ago.

    And to think people called Labour's process "slow" :D:D
    It was paused. And different circumstances do make a big difference - a proper LOTO is an urgent need, a new LD leader can wait.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 13,456
    Does anyone know why the Govt isn't using one of the existing tracing apps? I assume technology issues of some sort specific to locality.

    How are they going to do manual tracing for people you have been close to who you don't know when not using the app? Eg Southend beach or the tube.

    Is it not possible to utilise the volunteer network in some way (I can see all sorts of data protection issues here). It is worth noting that the volunteer network has been a complete fail, probably due to the success in signing up so many people. So for instance I have been a volunteer since almost the beginning. I have been on call according to my app for 705 hours so far. I have not been asked to do a single second of work.
  • JonCisBackJonCisBack Posts: 911
    Even in 2020 it seems we can have loads of basically unchallenged comments on women politicians looks alone. I'm ont offended, i don;t give a toss. Just find it interesting and little surprising.

    While we're on the subject, the one I've never heard of walked into a bar and the barman says "why the long face...?"

    Sorry...
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 41,153
    Anecdotally on virus stuff, I think London is now down to a very low level. We should be allowed to open up the shops and outdoor businesses fully.
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