Great news, and I'm sure exactly what all the Brexit supporters voted for.
Will there be reparations paid to all the impoverished countries from whom we've stolen doctors and nurses? Surely that would be the honourable thing to do for brave, new global Britain that's opening itself up to the world.
Great news, and I'm sure exactly what all the Brexit supporters voted for.
Yes it is what many of us including me voted for. It's what many politicians including our current Prime Minister and current Home Secretary campaigned for.
Even in 2020 it seems we can have loads of basically unchallenged comments on women politicians looks alone. I'm ont offended, i don;t give a toss. Just find it interesting and little surprising.
While we're on the subject, the one I've never heard of walked into a bar and the barman says "why the long face...?"
Sorry...
I presume they were unchallenged because for one various people have commented on odd looking male politicians, and that there may be an unfairness in female politicians getting so judged more than male ones was also noted, and part of it was about dress which does apply to men, and it was all rather detached in tone for the most part.
Theres a careful line when it comes to appearance, since appearance does matter (which is not the same as having to look good or stylish necessarily) but can easily become uncomfortable.
Men are always judging women on their appearance. It is so commonplace that I think most of us simply put up with it (most of the time).
I find find it rather amazing TBH, given how many men seem to have jeans halfway down their a*se or shirts that are not even close to fitting.
Quite.
Still of the three Daisy looks lovely and stylish, Ed Daley is presentable and well dressed and Layla needs to find a suit that fits properly and that doesn’t make her look as as if she picked it off the rails at an Oxfam shop with her eyes shut.
Went off Layla after hearing her during the last GE campaign. I like Ed Davey. Know nothing about Daisy Cooper. A party that spoke up for true liberal values would be nice. Not sure if the LibDems are that party anymore, though.
Ms Moran looks like she needs to buy an iron and a maybe someone should buy her a voucher for ColourMeBeautiful ....
...Men are always judging women on their appearance...
Under 30s ignoring the lockdown eventually was absolutely inevitable. The Raging Hormones of the Nation's Horny Teens and 20 Somethings vs Matt Hancock. Who wins?
Actually I might pitch that concept to Channel 4. Has promise.
Great news, and I'm sure exactly what all the Brexit supporters voted for.
Yes it is what many of us including me voted for. It's what many politicians including our current Prime Minister and current Home Secretary campaigned for.
Agreed. But you wouldn't have won without the racists.
Not that long ago, the Lib Dems were a party I would have considered voting for. I barely know what they are about these days and the 'barely' bit is not something I could vote for.
Moran - awful, utterly voter repellent. Davey - safe option, at least maintain current status or increase slightly. Cooper - negative-she isn't the one off This County. Positive-she isn't Moran or a complete fruit cake.
With the amount of time until the next GE, I'd go for Cooper. She can always be replaced, by Davey again probably.
The loss of Norman Lamb has deprived them of the sensible wing of the party. The result in North Norfolk is an unpleasant pointer for the future for the Lib Dems.
Wow i had not noticed the N Norfolk result other than as a Con gain. Must have had a massive personal vote. Always been sceptical of that as being worth more than a few hundred votes ever but clearly it was in his case.
Great news, and I'm sure exactly what all the Brexit supporters voted for.
Will there be reparations paid to all the impoverished countries from whom we've stolen doctors and nurses? Surely that would be the honourable thing to do for brave, new global Britain that's opening itself up to the world.
People are not chattel.
If someone wants to come here and we want them then that's the end of the matter.
Great news, and I'm sure exactly what all the Brexit supporters voted for.
It will be very entertaining when more black and brown faces end up showing up on our streets.
I have already been informed by errrr... progressive friends. that we now have the wrong kind of immigration.
Their arguments on this were interesting.
I'm sure it's exactly what the Kippers had in mind. More Indian plumbers.
Who gives a flying duck about Kippers?
BNP and Corbynites share racism with them. They should be abhored.
I think it's fair to say a decent majority of Brexiteers voted for reasons owing to immigration and to control it more. I really don't think you fit in with the reasons a lot of people voted for it, to be honest.
Even in 2020 it seems we can have loads of basically unchallenged comments on women politicians looks alone. I'm ont offended, i don;t give a toss. Just find it interesting and little surprising.
While we're on the subject, the one I've never heard of walked into a bar and the barman says "why the long face...?"
Sorry...
I presume they were unchallenged because for one various people have commented on odd looking male politicians, and that there may be an unfairness in female politicians getting so judged more than male ones was also noted, and part of it was about dress which does apply to men, and it was all rather detached in tone for the most part.
Theres a careful line when it comes to appearance, since appearance does matter (which is not the same as having to look good or stylish necessarily) but can easily become uncomfortable.
Men are always judging women on their appearance. It is so commonplace that I think most of us simply put up with it (most of the time).
I find find it rather amazing TBH, given how many men seem to have jeans halfway down their a*se or shirts that are not even close to fitting.
Quite.
Still of the three Daisy looks lovely and stylish, Ed Daley is presentable and well dressed and Layla needs to find a suit that fits properly and that doesn’t make her look as as if she picked it off the rails at an Oxfam shop with her eyes shut.
Went off Layla after hearing her during the last GE campaign. I like Ed Davey. Know nothing about Daisy Cooper. A party that spoke up for true liberal values would be nice. Not sure if the LibDems are that party anymore, though.
Davey doesn't dress well imo, but British men rarely do. Usually a combination of being shaped like sacks of spuds and
That this is true for me does not make it less hurtful doc )
Foxy's a doc that's always up front about bad news.
Great news, and I'm sure exactly what all the Brexit supporters voted for.
Yes it is what many of us including me voted for. It's what many politicians including our current Prime Minister and current Home Secretary campaigned for.
Agreed. But you wouldn't have won without the racists.
If Labour had by some fluke squeaked into government in 2019, it wouldn't have done so without the votes of communists and antisemites. What's your point?
Great news, and I'm sure exactly what all the Brexit supporters voted for.
Will there be reparations paid to all the impoverished countries from whom we've stolen doctors and nurses? Surely that would be the honourable thing to do for brave, new global Britain that's opening itself up to the world.
People are not chattel.
If someone wants to come here and we want them then that's the end of the matter.
You can a lot of fun pointing this out to people who use the "stolen skills" argument.
I once got some progressives to agree that all medical staff should have their ability to change jobs and/or leave the country subject to government control.....
Great news, and I'm sure exactly what all the Brexit supporters voted for.
Yes it is what many of us including me voted for. It's what many politicians including our current Prime Minister and current Home Secretary campaigned for.
Agreed. But you wouldn't have won without the racists.
There were racists who voted for Remain because they wanted white European migrants not other races.
I don't care about the racists. Their views are deplorable and I won't change my beliefs because of theirs. Its like arguing against vegetarianism on the basis that Hitler was one.
Income tax was set up to support the Napoleonic Wars, I wonder if @HYUFD thinks that means its not a tax too?
Income tax reasons of the first few taxes, hence it is called a tax not an insurance like National Insurance
A Jaffa cake is a biscuit.
And the World Series is not open to teams from the whole planet.
A Jaffa cake is not a biscuit according to the court ruling of 1991.
Where is it found in supermarkets? Eh? Not the cake section. Where do you find the Penguin bars? At the pet shop?
It's a biscuit.
I would say it has genuine duality in this regard. By which I mean it is capable of being a cake and simultaneously a biscuit.
Unusual but there are other examples. The testing stats spring to mind. Both above target and lamentably below at one and the same time.
Ah, a quantum biscuit. Like light is waves and particles at the same time.
Exactly so. And all for less than 2 quid a packet. Talk about a bargain.
DYOR but I am told by a mate who is a despatcher for a transport co that he picks up the Lidl knock offs from the same factory as he picks up the branded ones. Also, the real ones are on offer as often as not at Tesco.
Great news, and I'm sure exactly what all the Brexit supporters voted for.
It will be very entertaining when more black and brown faces end up showing up on our streets.
I have already been informed by errrr... progressive friends. that we now have the wrong kind of immigration.
Their arguments on this were interesting.
I'm sure it's exactly what the Kippers had in mind. More Indian plumbers.
Who gives a flying duck about Kippers?
BNP and Corbynites share racism with them. They should be abhored.
I think it's fair to say a decent majority of Brexiteers voted for reasons owing to immigration and to control it more. I really don't think you fit in with the reasons a lot of people voted for it, to be honest.
I don't care. So long as the government is of my beliefs then I'm happy and if it's not I'll campaign for it to be replaced.
Great news, and I'm sure exactly what all the Brexit supporters voted for.
Will there be reparations paid to all the impoverished countries from whom we've stolen doctors and nurses? Surely that would be the honourable thing to do for brave, new global Britain that's opening itself up to the world.
People are not chattel.
If someone wants to come here and we want them then that's the end of the matter.
Ah, the Wernher von Braun argument: moralconsiderationsrnotus
Income tax was set up to support the Napoleonic Wars, I wonder if @HYUFD thinks that means its not a tax too?
Income tax reasons of the first few taxes, hence it is called a tax not an insurance like National Insurance
A Jaffa cake is a biscuit.
And the World Series is not open to teams from the whole planet.
A Jaffa cake is not a biscuit according to the court ruling of 1991.
Where is it found in supermarkets? Eh? Not the cake section. Where do you find the Penguin bars? At the pet shop?
It's a biscuit.
I would say it has genuine duality in this regard. By which I mean it is capable of being a cake and simultaneously a biscuit.
Unusual but there are other examples. The testing stats spring to mind. Both above target and lamentably below at one and the same time.
Ah, a quantum biscuit. Like light is waves and particles at the same time.
Exactly so. And all for less than 2 quid a packet. Talk about a bargain.
DYOR but I am told by a mate who is a despatcher for a transport co that he picks up the Lidl knock offs from the same factory as he picks up the branded ones. Also, the real ones are on offer as often as not at Tesco.
White label is a core part of Aldi, Lidl & Costco business plan.
Davey's positioning the party to the right of the Conservatives on economics is brave. He might look very clever this time next year, or he risks reminding voters that when push comes to shove, the LibDems back the Tories.
I think the key point is that when push comes to shove, the Tories will back other parties (including the Lib Dems) and work with them for the duration of the agreement, while Labour simply don't play well with others.
I had a look at the history of hung Parliaments and times when the ruling party had a very weak majority - the Tories are far more likely to talk with others and agree compromise, while Labour have a tendency to insist on going it alone.
It rather surprised me; I'd have thought it was the other way around.
Callaghan was propped up by the Liberals as was Macdonald
"Far more likely"
In the 1890s, the Tories dealt in depth with the Liberal Unionists until they absorbed them.
In 1918, the Tories went with the Liberals even though they could go it alone. They stuck to their agreement for years, even though they could go it alone and the end of that agreement was such a significant moment for the Tories it cost them their leader and their backbench Committee is named after it to this day.
In 1923, the Liberals expected Labour to want to work with them and MacDonald ignored them - basically daring them to try to bring him down. Asquith decided to unilaterally support them anyway, but got nothing for it. Labour also switched to anti-PR at that point.
In 1929, the same as 1923.
In the Thirties, Labour were the only party to refuse a National Coalition. The Liberals split under the pressure. The Tories kept offering a place to the Liberals (even standing down in some constituencies).
In 1964, Grimond expected Wilson to offer a deal to prop him up, but instead Labour doubled down on attacking the Liberals to try to pick up a majority.
In 1974, Heath had full-on talks with the Liberals but couldn't bring the rest of his party along. Wilson didn't even open up talks.
The Lib-Lab deal in 1977 was the only time Labour have properly offered the Liberal Party anything, and that really wasn't much in practice.
In 2010, Labour (despite Brown's intent) offered sod-all to the Lib Dems, while Cameron gave them half their manifesto in a single chunk.
The danger with the Tories is they'll actually hug you close longer than necessary and work towards absorption (Clegg and co probably didn't need the FTPA). Labour work towards exclusion.
Very well said. Two further points.
Some here like Scott call the current government the Brexit Party government (or others say the Vote Leave government) and are phrasing it like that as an insult. But nothing could be more traditionally Conservative than recognising that there are votes for Brexit and pivoting to support tht as a result.
Secondly I think there is a philosophical reason why this happens and it goes back to the People's Front of Judea vs Judean People's Front splits that we often refer to on the left.
Conservatives philosophically believe we are right (as in correct) but we also believe in what works. If compromising with your political opponents works then that's easier for us to do. The left tend to philosophically believe they are right (as in correct) too they also believe far more that their view and only theirs is the one true morally right opinion too. Which makes it much harder for them to make compromises, because its not just compromising your politics but compromising your moral core too.
Brexit is not conservative, it's the complete opposite.
Did you miss my whole point earlier on the difference between Conservative and conservative?
Capital C Conservative and lower c conservative are not the same word and don't mean the same thing.
The modern Conservative Party is not in any way conservative in the traditional sense.
It is now the manifestation of what happens when Brexit Party/UKIP take over a once respected party.
What I find most astonishing is that you cannot see that what happened to Labour, has now happened to the Tories.
That isn't new. As I said the Conservative Party is not a conservative party exclusively and never has been.
Was David Cameron conservative? Was George Osborne? Was Margaret Thatcher?
Theresa May represents the conservative wing of the Conservative Party which is why I have no time for her (well that and more importantly her disgusting xenophobia). The socially liberal economically dry wing of the party that has been represented down the years by the likes of Cameron, or Thatcher who in her day voted to legalise homosexuality is the Conservative Parry I support.
Conservative yes please, conservative no thanks.
Boris is certainly not economically dry, he is spending more than any Tory PM since Macmillan
Income tax was set up to support the Napoleonic Wars, I wonder if @HYUFD thinks that means its not a tax too?
Income tax reasons of the first few taxes, hence it is called a tax not an insurance like National Insurance
A Jaffa cake is a biscuit.
And the World Series is not open to teams from the whole planet.
A Jaffa cake is not a biscuit according to the court ruling of 1991.
Where is it found in supermarkets? Eh? Not the cake section. Where do you find the Penguin bars? At the pet shop?
It's a biscuit.
I would say it has genuine duality in this regard. By which I mean it is capable of being a cake and simultaneously a biscuit.
Unusual but there are other examples. The testing stats spring to mind. Both above target and lamentably below at one and the same time.
Ah, a quantum biscuit. Like light is waves and particles at the same time.
Exactly so. And all for less than 2 quid a packet. Talk about a bargain.
DYOR but I am told by a mate who is a despatcher for a transport co that he picks up the Lidl knock offs from the same factory as he picks up the branded ones. Also, the real ones are on offer as often as not at Tesco.
Many, many years ago I had an acquaintance who was a senior manager at a smaller pharmaceutical manufacturing company, who made 'branded' vitamins. They were very often all off the same production line, just packaged differently for different manufactures. I am also very, very reliably informed that the same thing happens in confectionary.
This, from the article, was a well made point: ...“This is a guy who has been preparing to be president nearly his entire adult life and knows the job of VP better than anyone who’s made this decision in a generation or maybe ever," said one Democrat close to the Biden team. “And if you are primarily focused on mobilizing voters in November and not about governing, then you are fundamentally misreading the audience of one that you need to convince.”...
Great news, and I'm sure exactly what all the Brexit supporters voted for.
Will there be reparations paid to all the impoverished countries from whom we've stolen doctors and nurses? Surely that would be the honourable thing to do for brave, new global Britain that's opening itself up to the world.
People are not chattel.
If someone wants to come here and we want them then that's the end of the matter.
Ah, the Wernher von Braun argument: moralconsiderationsrnotus
No the Abraham Lincoln argument.
People are free to do what they want to do and are not slaves. That is what my moral consideration says.
Great news, and I'm sure exactly what all the Brexit supporters voted for.
Yes it is what many of us including me voted for. It's what many politicians including our current Prime Minister and current Home Secretary campaigned for.
Agreed. But you wouldn't have won without the racists.
If Labour had by some fluke squeaked into government in 2019, it wouldn't have done so without the votes of communists and antisemites. What's your point?
The anti semitism in labour will never go away.. its ingrained.
Great news, and I'm sure exactly what all the Brexit supporters voted for.
Will there be reparations paid to all the impoverished countries from whom we've stolen doctors and nurses? Surely that would be the honourable thing to do for brave, new global Britain that's opening itself up to the world.
People are not chattel.
If someone wants to come here and we want them then that's the end of the matter.
You can a lot of fun pointing this out to people who use the "stolen skills" argument.
I once got some progressives to agree that all medical staff should have their ability to change jobs and/or leave the country subject to government control.....
Yeah, and before Brexit I (more than once) have seen anti immigrationists on here use 'the stolen skills' argument against immigration in general. We all have our anecdata.
Morning all! An interesting thread which my 6 months as a LibDem gives me no rights to comment on. Ah well...
I think Davey is doing a perfectly solid job and had committed to vote for him until my departure. The coalition like all governments did Good and Bad with the LibDems responsible for many of the bits people remember as good. Running away from their record in office would be Corbynite levels of stupid when they attack Blair and Brown endlessly. Davey I think can manage the balance between "here's what we did good" and "here's what we did bad" whilst looking like a grown up politician.
Swinson had Pzazz but no real substance underneath it and made the grave mistake of believing her own spin regardless of evidence. Hubris and arrogance is the downfall of many politicians and she was no exception - I read the "What went wrong" report into the election and the party deserves massive credit for both commissioning and publishing warts and all. But "Flight of Icarus" was a simpler summary.
I wasn't a good fit with the LibDems. Part of their party overlaps with my perspective and I was truly made welcome. But their internal battle between classic Liberals and Social Democrats which I guess goes back 30 odd years to the merger hasn't been resolved. I found it hard to state what the party was for despite thinking the 2019 manifesto was excellent. Unless they can figure this out they will struggle for traction in what is still a bipolar Labour/Tory are evil vote Tory/Labour world.
RP that was interesting and sorry to lose you back to Labour. I am interested in one point you make which I would appreciate an expansion on. I am a Liberal. I am definitely not a Social Democrat, However I don't find any issue with the fit and have never seen an issue with it. Can you elaborate?
Sure - it was readily visible with the Orange Book vs the Social Democrats. During the coalition years I read quite a bit on LibDemVoice (I read Tory and Labour boards too...) of Social Democrats absolutely outraged by the coalition even existing never mind some of its policies. My local LibDem Party was very negative towards those years, more so than I was which was quite amusing.
Fundamentally because of FPTP all parties get painted into two camps - Labour leaning or Tory leaning. In 2019 I was clear that neither candidate for PM was fit for office and wanted as hung a parliament as possible to reign in their excesses/madness. That isn't realistic - it will be one or the other until we have a proportional electoral system. That forces the LibDems into ultimately leaning one way or the other - and that is the debate which isn't easily resolved for you trying to be truly centrist.
I'm definitely a Liberal rather than Social Democrat but don't think this dimension plays heavily within the party nowadays; if there is a division it's between social liberals and free market liberals. Most social democrats would find themselves with the former (some however have always been economically more right-leaning) but former liberals are evenly divided. Many who came from the old Liberal Party lean more leftwards than many ex SDP.
There is a small social democrat organisation within the party that is calling for a return to focusing on core issues and less emphasis on fringe issues and some of the identity politics that is afflicting most parties nowadays. Whilst the latter is sometimes seen as liberal, it isn't liberalism as I have always understood it (which emphasises freedom of opportunity regardless of - and hence downplaying - identity).
My impression is that the coalition was a lot easier to bear for those LibDems facing Tories as their principal opponent, and much more difficult in Labour facing areas. It was the latter where LibDem council groups were pretty much wiped out.
David Steel always struck me as being some way to the Left of many Social Democrats such as David Owen and Bill Rodgers.
Great news, and I'm sure exactly what all the Brexit supporters voted for.
It will be very entertaining when more black and brown faces end up showing up on our streets.
Why are you bringing race into it? Does racism entertain you?
That seemed out of character.
A lot of Brexiteers voted for racist reasons, to kick foreigners out.
It will be very entertaining when more black and brown people arrive to do the jobs that white people that come from Europe won't be doing anymore.
It was the complete opposite of racism, I am pro immigration.
So am I and so are many Brexiteers.
There was a very good anti-rascism reason to support Brexit: That we should judge potential migrants on who they are rather than where they come from.
On its own do you agree with that principle?
I would be happy with FOM extending to more countries to be honest.
The entire globe or just predominantly white countries?
In principle, any country.
I get that's an unpopular view and so practically not something Labour can actually promise because it will go down badly - but I think in principle FOM should be available to any country.
Great news, and I'm sure exactly what all the Brexit supporters voted for.
Will there be reparations paid to all the impoverished countries from whom we've stolen doctors and nurses? Surely that would be the honourable thing to do for brave, new global Britain that's opening itself up to the world.
People are not chattel.
If someone wants to come here and we want them then that's the end of the matter.
Ah, the Wernher von Braun argument: moralconsiderationsrnotus
No the Abraham Lincoln argument.
People are free to do what they want to do and are not slaves. That is what my moral consideration says.
The progressive argument - these skills are owned by the country that helped educate the people. They shouldn't be allowed to leave or only leave after they have paid off their "debt".
I even got a couple of progressives to add on - if they add to their skills, by experience or more training, their debt should increase.
Great news, and I'm sure exactly what all the Brexit supporters voted for.
Yes it is what many of us including me voted for. It's what many politicians including our current Prime Minister and current Home Secretary campaigned for.
Agreed. But you wouldn't have won without the racists.
If Labour had by some fluke squeaked into government in 2019, it wouldn't have done so without the votes of communists and antisemites. What's your point?
The anti semitism in labour will never go away.. its ingrained.
I hope the EHRC investigation will go somewhere to resolving it.
Now what about the Tories and their Islamophobia problem, where is the report that was promised? Odd how the PB Tories don't seem to care about racism when it is their own side.
Great news, and I'm sure exactly what all the Brexit supporters voted for.
It will be very entertaining when more black and brown faces end up showing up on our streets.
Why are you bringing race into it? Does racism entertain you?
That seemed out of character.
A lot of Brexiteers voted for racist reasons, to kick foreigners out.
It will be very entertaining when more black and brown people arrive to do the jobs that white people that come from Europe won't be doing anymore.
It was the complete opposite of racism, I am pro immigration.
So am I and so are many Brexiteers.
There was a very good anti-rascism reason to support Brexit: That we should judge potential migrants on who they are rather than where they come from.
On its own do you agree with that principle?
I would be happy with FOM extending to more countries to be honest.
The entire globe or just predominantly white countries?
In principle, any country.
I get that's an unpopular view and so practically not something Labour can actually promise because it will go down badly - but I think in principle FOM should be available to any country.
Don't you see the huge issue with that when you have open borders between very rich and very poor countries?
Looks like the lack of exit tests a capacity issue. Sure a negative exit test might have produced some false results but we wouldn't have had the sheer quantity of deaths in care homes that we've had. Responsibility still goes to the top.
Income tax was set up to support the Napoleonic Wars, I wonder if @HYUFD thinks that means its not a tax too?
Income tax reasons of the first few taxes, hence it is called a tax not an insurance like National Insurance
A Jaffa cake is a biscuit.
And the World Series is not open to teams from the whole planet.
A Jaffa cake is not a biscuit according to the court ruling of 1991.
Where is it found in supermarkets? Eh? Not the cake section. Where do you find the Penguin bars? At the pet shop?
It's a biscuit.
I would say it has genuine duality in this regard. By which I mean it is capable of being a cake and simultaneously a biscuit.
Unusual but there are other examples. The testing stats spring to mind. Both above target and lamentably below at one and the same time.
Ah, a quantum biscuit. Like light is waves and particles at the same time.
Exactly so. And all for less than 2 quid a packet. Talk about a bargain.
DYOR but I am told by a mate who is a despatcher for a transport co that he picks up the Lidl knock offs from the same factory as he picks up the branded ones. Also, the real ones are on offer as often as not at Tesco.
Many, many years ago I had an acquaintance who was a senior manager at a smaller pharmaceutical manufacturing company, who made 'branded' vitamins. They were very often all off the same production line, just packaged differently for different manufactures. I am also very, very reliably informed that the same thing happens in confectionary.
Although, curiously, it's been noticed that if you take branded medication the placebo effect can kick in so it works much better.
Great news, and I'm sure exactly what all the Brexit supporters voted for.
Yes it is what many of us including me voted for. It's what many politicians including our current Prime Minister and current Home Secretary campaigned for.
Agreed. But you wouldn't have won without the racists.
If Labour had by some fluke squeaked into government in 2019, it wouldn't have done so without the votes of communists and antisemites. What's your point?
The anti semitism in labour will never go away.. its ingrained.
I hope the EHRC investigation will go somewhere to resolving it.
Now what about the Tories and their Islamophobia problem, where is the report that was promised? Odd how the PB Tories don't seem to care about racism when it is their own side.
Then the complaints about Islamaphobia would get published. Some of the complaints were errrrrr.... problematic. And not in the way you might want to think.
Great news, and I'm sure exactly what all the Brexit supporters voted for.
It will be very entertaining when more black and brown faces end up showing up on our streets.
Why are you bringing race into it? Does racism entertain you?
That seemed out of character.
A lot of Brexiteers voted for racist reasons, to kick foreigners out.
It will be very entertaining when more black and brown people arrive to do the jobs that white people that come from Europe won't be doing anymore.
It was the complete opposite of racism, I am pro immigration.
So am I and so are many Brexiteers.
There was a very good anti-rascism reason to support Brexit: That we should judge potential migrants on who they are rather than where they come from.
On its own do you agree with that principle?
I would be happy with FOM extending to more countries to be honest.
The entire globe or just predominantly white countries?
In principle, any country.
I get that's an unpopular view and so practically not something Labour can actually promise because it will go down badly - but I think in principle FOM should be available to any country.
That's a brilliant policy ... if you want to abolish the welfare state, quadruple the population, and suppress wages to feudal levels.
Great news, and I'm sure exactly what all the Brexit supporters voted for.
Yes it is what many of us including me voted for. It's what many politicians including our current Prime Minister and current Home Secretary campaigned for.
Agreed. But you wouldn't have won without the racists.
If Labour had by some fluke squeaked into government in 2019, it wouldn't have done so without the votes of communists and antisemites. What's your point?
The anti semitism in labour will never go away.. its ingrained.
I hope the EHRC investigation will go somewhere to resolving it.
Now what about the Tories and their Islamophobia problem, where is the report that was promised? Odd how the PB Tories don't seem to care about racism when it is their own side.
Cue a hundred 'how can you be racist against a religion' replies and the subsequent death of the soul.
Income tax was set up to support the Napoleonic Wars, I wonder if @HYUFD thinks that means its not a tax too?
Income tax reasons of the first few taxes, hence it is called a tax not an insurance like National Insurance
A Jaffa cake is a biscuit.
And the World Series is not open to teams from the whole planet.
A Jaffa cake is not a biscuit according to the court ruling of 1991.
Where is it found in supermarkets? Eh? Not the cake section. Where do you find the Penguin bars? At the pet shop?
It's a biscuit.
I would say it has genuine duality in this regard. By which I mean it is capable of being a cake and simultaneously a biscuit.
Unusual but there are other examples. The testing stats spring to mind. Both above target and lamentably below at one and the same time.
Ah, a quantum biscuit. Like light is waves and particles at the same time.
Exactly so. And all for less than 2 quid a packet. Talk about a bargain.
DYOR but I am told by a mate who is a despatcher for a transport co that he picks up the Lidl knock offs from the same factory as he picks up the branded ones. Also, the real ones are on offer as often as not at Tesco.
White label is a core part of Aldi, Lidl & Costco business plan.
Very little of the Aldi and Lidl products are classic "white label" (value basics floor sweepings). The quality standards set by ALdi and Lidl are usually very high, with their efficiency as a business allowing them to operate on 20% less margin than the big boys and thus pass the saving onto consumers.
I am unsure as to the "knock offs" being talked about. Own label is own label - there are absolutely identical products in most sections in most supermarkets made on the same line with just a different bit of packaging at the end. Frankly the scraggiest own brand stuff can be found in Tesco and especially Asda.
Great news, and I'm sure exactly what all the Brexit supporters voted for.
Yes it is what many of us including me voted for. It's what many politicians including our current Prime Minister and current Home Secretary campaigned for.
Agreed. But you wouldn't have won without the racists.
If Labour had by some fluke squeaked into government in 2019, it wouldn't have done so without the votes of communists and antisemites. What's your point?
The anti semitism in labour will never go away.. its ingrained.
I hope the EHRC investigation will go somewhere to resolving it.
Now what about the Tories and their Islamophobia problem, where is the report that was promised? Odd how the PB Tories don't seem to care about racism when it is their own side.
Then the complaints about Islamaphobia would get published. Some of the complaints were errrrrr.... problematic. And not in the way you might want to think.
Then let's publish them so we can discuss them in the open.
The Tories have been absolutely dreadful on this issue and as somebody who hates racism I am appalled by it.
I'm equally appalled by what has happened in Labour - but I am glad that the EHRC investigation will provide something of an objective analysis of what has gone on. I trust Starmer most out of those who stood to lead, to resolve this. And the initial signs from the Jewish community are encouraging.
Great news, and I'm sure exactly what all the Brexit supporters voted for.
Yes it is what many of us including me voted for. It's what many politicians including our current Prime Minister and current Home Secretary campaigned for.
Agreed. But you wouldn't have won without the racists.
If Labour had by some fluke squeaked into government in 2019, it wouldn't have done so without the votes of communists and antisemites. What's your point?
The anti semitism in labour will never go away.. its ingrained.
I hope the EHRC investigation will go somewhere to resolving it.
Now what about the Tories and their Islamophobia problem, where is the report that was promised? Odd how the PB Tories don't seem to care about racism when it is their own side.
Cue a hundred 'how can you be racist against a religion' replies and the subsequent death of the soul.
Great news, and I'm sure exactly what all the Brexit supporters voted for.
Yes it is what many of us including me voted for. It's what many politicians including our current Prime Minister and current Home Secretary campaigned for.
Agreed. But you wouldn't have won without the racists.
If Labour had by some fluke squeaked into government in 2019, it wouldn't have done so without the votes of communists and antisemites. What's your point?
The anti semitism in labour will never go away.. its ingrained.
I hope the EHRC investigation will go somewhere to resolving it.
Now what about the Tories and their Islamophobia problem, where is the report that was promised? Odd how the PB Tories don't seem to care about racism when it is their own side.
Then the complaints about Islamaphobia would get published. Some of the complaints were errrrrr.... problematic. And not in the way you might want to think.
Then let's publish them so we can discuss them in the open.
The Tories have been absolutely dreadful on this issue and as somebody who hates racism I am appalled by it.
I'm equally appalled by what has happened in Labour - but I am glad that the EHRC investigation will provide something of an objective analysis of what has gone on. I trust Starmer most out of those who stood to lead, to resolve this. And the initial signs from the Jewish community are encouraging.
The suppression of various reports on racism has become a theme.
Partly because of problems that the reports might create. i.e. some of the quotes in a couple I have seen are bit.... interesting. As in would make good fodder for the BNP et al.
Freedom of movement operated to supply Britain with an excellent flow of highly educated, dynamic workers.
Only someone with a pathological hostility to the EU or an innate hatred of foreigners would have wanted to upend it as a system in favour of a highly bureaucratic top-down system that relied on Whitehall understanding current recruitment needs.
Great news, and I'm sure exactly what all the Brexit supporters voted for.
Yes it is what many of us including me voted for. It's what many politicians including our current Prime Minister and current Home Secretary campaigned for.
Agreed. But you wouldn't have won without the racists.
If Labour had by some fluke squeaked into government in 2019, it wouldn't have done so without the votes of communists and antisemites. What's your point?
The anti semitism in labour will never go away.. its ingrained.
I hope the EHRC investigation will go somewhere to resolving it.
Now what about the Tories and their Islamophobia problem, where is the report that was promised? Odd how the PB Tories don't seem to care about racism when it is their own side.
Cue a hundred 'how can you be racist against a religion' replies and the subsequent death of the soul.
Answer: You can't be.
I just think you're a hypocrite for being appalled at racism and discrimination in one party yet happily voting for another one that has clear evidence of doing similar - but we have covered this ground before.
Income tax was set up to support the Napoleonic Wars, I wonder if @HYUFD thinks that means its not a tax too?
Income tax reasons of the first few taxes, hence it is called a tax not an insurance like National Insurance
A Jaffa cake is a biscuit.
And the World Series is not open to teams from the whole planet.
A Jaffa cake is not a biscuit according to the court ruling of 1991.
Where is it found in supermarkets? Eh? Not the cake section. Where do you find the Penguin bars? At the pet shop?
It's a biscuit.
I would say it has genuine duality in this regard. By which I mean it is capable of being a cake and simultaneously a biscuit.
Unusual but there are other examples. The testing stats spring to mind. Both above target and lamentably below at one and the same time.
Ah, a quantum biscuit. Like light is waves and particles at the same time.
Exactly so. And all for less than 2 quid a packet. Talk about a bargain.
DYOR but I am told by a mate who is a despatcher for a transport co that he picks up the Lidl knock offs from the same factory as he picks up the branded ones. Also, the real ones are on offer as often as not at Tesco.
White label is a core part of Aldi, Lidl & Costco business plan.
Very little of the Aldi and Lidl products are classic "white label" (value basics floor sweepings). The quality standards set by ALdi and Lidl are usually very high, with their efficiency as a business allowing them to operate on 20% less margin than the big boys and thus pass the saving onto consumers.
I am unsure as to the "knock offs" being talked about. Own label is own label - there are absolutely identical products in most sections in most supermarkets made on the same line with just a different bit of packaging at the end. Frankly the scraggiest own brand stuff can be found in Tesco and especially Asda.
I should have been clearer, they "white label" or "private label" known branded products, rather than the traditional white label the generic product that every one takes. Trade Joes is owned by Aldi and runs basically the same system.
My understanding is one reason brands are happy to do this (often undercutting themselves) is no stocking fees, guaranteed order numbers, etc, compared to the traditional supermarket model where they would be fighting just to get on shelves, let alone sell against the 30 different other brands selling the same product.
Great news, and I'm sure exactly what all the Brexit supporters voted for.
Yes it is what many of us including me voted for. It's what many politicians including our current Prime Minister and current Home Secretary campaigned for.
Agreed. But you wouldn't have won without the racists.
If Labour had by some fluke squeaked into government in 2019, it wouldn't have done so without the votes of communists and antisemites. What's your point?
The anti semitism in labour will never go away.. its ingrained.
I hope the EHRC investigation will go somewhere to resolving it.
Now what about the Tories and their Islamophobia problem, where is the report that was promised? Odd how the PB Tories don't seem to care about racism when it is their own side.
Then the complaints about Islamaphobia would get published. Some of the complaints were errrrrr.... problematic. And not in the way you might want to think.
Then let's publish them so we can discuss them in the open.
The Tories have been absolutely dreadful on this issue and as somebody who hates racism I am appalled by it.
I'm equally appalled by what has happened in Labour - but I am glad that the EHRC investigation will provide something of an objective analysis of what has gone on. I trust Starmer most out of those who stood to lead, to resolve this. And the initial signs from the Jewish community are encouraging.
The EHRC investigation happened despite Labour not wanting it not because they did. And it happened because racism was real and complaints were substantial and substantiated.
If the same happens with the Tories with substantiated complaints there should be an investigation.
Great news, and I'm sure exactly what all the Brexit supporters voted for.
Yes it is what many of us including me voted for. It's what many politicians including our current Prime Minister and current Home Secretary campaigned for.
Agreed. But you wouldn't have won without the racists.
If Labour had by some fluke squeaked into government in 2019, it wouldn't have done so without the votes of communists and antisemites. What's your point?
The anti semitism in labour will never go away.. its ingrained.
I hope the EHRC investigation will go somewhere to resolving it.
Now what about the Tories and their Islamophobia problem, where is the report that was promised? Odd how the PB Tories don't seem to care about racism when it is their own side.
Then the complaints about Islamaphobia would get published. Some of the complaints were errrrrr.... problematic. And not in the way you might want to think.
Then let's publish them so we can discuss them in the open.
The Tories have been absolutely dreadful on this issue and as somebody who hates racism I am appalled by it.
I'm equally appalled by what has happened in Labour - but I am glad that the EHRC investigation will provide something of an objective analysis of what has gone on. I trust Starmer most out of those who stood to lead, to resolve this. And the initial signs from the Jewish community are encouraging.
The suppression of various reports on racism has become a theme.
Partly because of problems that the reports might create. i.e. some of the quotes in a couple I have seen are bit.... interesting. As in would make good fodder for the BNP et al.
Don't get me wrong, I think the way Labour has seemingly suppressed it too is appalling.
But I have acknowledged that as a Labour member and I have provided what I think are reasonable arguments that it is being dealt with.
I do not see the same effort, or evidence for the Tory Party and I find it offensive and hypocritical that PB Tories will play the racism card to score points yet will not look at their own side.
In truth if you were appalled at racism you couldn't have voted for either party in the last election. End of story.
As an ex-LD (and Lib) I'm very saddened by what a campaigning party has become. I fear that Clegg will be regarded in history as a someone who did more damage to the Lib/LD brand than Lloyd-George did; at least the latter started out well. The more that come out out about the long term-effect of the Coalition's social policies, the worse it seems. Initially I supported the Coalition if only because a) the country needed a Government, b) the arithmetic meant a Conservative or Conservative-led one was the only option and c) I hoped the LDs would have some ameliorating effect on what seemed a Rightward drift by the Conservative back-benchers. However, IMHO Clegg made two disastrous mistakes. He didn't insist on one of the Great Offices, which almost certainly meant Theresa May was promoted above her ability, instead taking the non-job of Deputy PM and secondly he kept the Coalition going right up until the last minute. Three years would have been plenty, after which the LD's could have reverted to C&S and could have stressed their differences.
Now the Party needs a Grimond or an Ashdown, and, TBH, I don't see one anywhere,
Clegg got the Liberals into Government, the only Liberal leader to do so since Lloyd George
Tony Blair, when he was PM, in the Surfside Bar, Holetown, watching Arsenal vs Chelsea.
I met Blair in Basra when he flew out to Ocean on a Chinook and they wanted an FAA type pressganged to handle the radios. He was very normal and demonstrated a modicum of ability to conceal the fact that he was shitting himself.
They would not put him on a Lynx for the flight even though it was judged a perfectly adequate a/c for us to fly into browned out hot LZs while overloaded.
Serendipitously this just turned up on my twitter. No idea if it's decent or just branded fluff, the latter I imagine.
Great news, and I'm sure exactly what all the Brexit supporters voted for.
Yes it is what many of us including me voted for. It's what many politicians including our current Prime Minister and current Home Secretary campaigned for.
Agreed. But you wouldn't have won without the racists.
If Labour had by some fluke squeaked into government in 2019, it wouldn't have done so without the votes of communists and antisemites. What's your point?
The anti semitism in labour will never go away.. its ingrained.
I hope the EHRC investigation will go somewhere to resolving it.
Now what about the Tories and their Islamophobia problem, where is the report that was promised? Odd how the PB Tories don't seem to care about racism when it is their own side.
Cue a hundred 'how can you be racist against a religion' replies and the subsequent death of the soul.
Answer: You can't be.
I just think you're a hypocrite for being appalled at racism and discrimination in one party yet happily voting for another one that has clear evidence of doing similar - but we have covered this ground before.
I make a point of never believing allegations of racism in a political party until someone has been given a peerage for proving that there isn't one.
Even in 2020 it seems we can have loads of basically unchallenged comments on women politicians looks alone. I'm ont offended, i don;t give a toss. Just find it interesting and little surprising.
While we're on the subject, the one I've never heard of walked into a bar and the barman says "why the long face...?"
Sorry...
I presume they were unchallenged because for one various people have commented on odd looking male politicians, and that there may be an unfairness in female politicians getting so judged more than male ones was also noted, and part of it was about dress which does apply to men, and it was all rather detached in tone for the most part.
Theres a careful line when it comes to appearance, since appearance does matter (which is not the same as having to look good or stylish necessarily) but can easily become uncomfortable.
Men are always judging women on their appearance. It is so commonplace that I think most of us simply put up with it (most of the time).
I find find it rather amazing TBH, given how many men seem to have jeans halfway down their a*se or shirts that are not even close to fitting.
Quite.
Still of the three Daisy looks lovely and stylish, Ed Daley is presentable and well dressed and Layla needs to find a suit that fits properly and that doesn’t make her look as as if she picked it off the rails at an Oxfam shop with her eyes shut.
Went off Layla after hearing her during the last GE campaign. I like Ed Davey. Know nothing about Daisy Cooper. A party that spoke up for true liberal values would be nice. Not sure if the LibDems are that party anymore, though.
Ms Moran looks like she needs to buy an iron and a maybe someone should buy her a voucher for ColourMeBeautiful ....
...Men are always judging women on their appearance...
Yes, but it is different for women doing women. It is purely a sartorial issue and no sex appeal is involved.
Great news, and I'm sure exactly what all the Brexit supporters voted for.
Yes it is what many of us including me voted for. It's what many politicians including our current Prime Minister and current Home Secretary campaigned for.
Agreed. But you wouldn't have won without the racists.
If Labour had by some fluke squeaked into government in 2019, it wouldn't have done so without the votes of communists and antisemites. What's your point?
The anti semitism in labour will never go away.. its ingrained.
I hope the EHRC investigation will go somewhere to resolving it.
Now what about the Tories and their Islamophobia problem, where is the report that was promised? Odd how the PB Tories don't seem to care about racism when it is their own side.
Then the complaints about Islamaphobia would get published. Some of the complaints were errrrrr.... problematic. And not in the way you might want to think.
Then let's publish them so we can discuss them in the open.
The Tories have been absolutely dreadful on this issue and as somebody who hates racism I am appalled by it.
I'm equally appalled by what has happened in Labour - but I am glad that the EHRC investigation will provide something of an objective analysis of what has gone on. I trust Starmer most out of those who stood to lead, to resolve this. And the initial signs from the Jewish community are encouraging.
So you 'hate racism' and are 'appalled by what has happened in Labour', but you voted for and passionately boosted a racist party anyway, when all the facts about them were already public knowledge? And now you're calling Philip_Thompson a hypocrite?
Great news, and I'm sure exactly what all the Brexit supporters voted for.
Yes it is what many of us including me voted for. It's what many politicians including our current Prime Minister and current Home Secretary campaigned for.
Agreed. But you wouldn't have won without the racists.
If Labour had by some fluke squeaked into government in 2019, it wouldn't have done so without the votes of communists and antisemites. What's your point?
The anti semitism in labour will never go away.. its ingrained.
I hope the EHRC investigation will go somewhere to resolving it.
Now what about the Tories and their Islamophobia problem, where is the report that was promised? Odd how the PB Tories don't seem to care about racism when it is their own side.
Then the complaints about Islamaphobia would get published. Some of the complaints were errrrrr.... problematic. And not in the way you might want to think.
Then let's publish them so we can discuss them in the open.
The Tories have been absolutely dreadful on this issue and as somebody who hates racism I am appalled by it.
I'm equally appalled by what has happened in Labour - but I am glad that the EHRC investigation will provide something of an objective analysis of what has gone on. I trust Starmer most out of those who stood to lead, to resolve this. And the initial signs from the Jewish community are encouraging.
So you 'hate racism' and are 'appalled by what has happened in Labour', but you voted for and passionately boosted a racist party anyway, when all the facts about them were already public knowledge? And now you're calling Philip_Thompson a hypocrite?
Look in the mirror.
As it happens, I didn't vote for Labour in the 2019 GE.
But regardless, my point is that I have acknowledged Labour's racism problems. The other user has not and yet is trying to take the moral high ground, as are you.
But PB Tories are never consistent, I am used to that.
On the racism allegations for Labour, I posted at the time about why I felt anyone claiming to be anti-racism and then voting Tory or Labour was a hypocrite. And I freely acknowledge that even though I didn't vote Labour, I was a hypocrite.
Great news, and I'm sure exactly what all the Brexit supporters voted for.
It will be very entertaining when more black and brown faces end up showing up on our streets.
Why are you bringing race into it? Does racism entertain you?
That seemed out of character.
It does raise a point though - for those that have a racism issue, white faces from Europe are much harder to pick out of the crowd than somebody in a turban or a burqa.
Great news, and I'm sure exactly what all the Brexit supporters voted for.
Yes it is what many of us including me voted for. It's what many politicians including our current Prime Minister and current Home Secretary campaigned for.
Agreed. But you wouldn't have won without the racists.
If Labour had by some fluke squeaked into government in 2019, it wouldn't have done so without the votes of communists and antisemites. What's your point?
The anti semitism in labour will never go away.. its ingrained.
I hope the EHRC investigation will go somewhere to resolving it.
Now what about the Tories and their Islamophobia problem, where is the report that was promised? Odd how the PB Tories don't seem to care about racism when it is their own side.
Cue a hundred 'how can you be racist against a religion' replies and the subsequent death of the soul.
Answer: You can't be.
I just think you're a hypocrite for being appalled at racism and discrimination in one party yet happily voting for another one that has clear evidence of doing similar - but we have covered this ground before.
Excuse me but when my party was taken over by someone I considered a xenophobe I quit it. I've said that more times than I can count. That, not Brexit, is the reason Theresa May disgusts me. So I'm not a hypocrite I judge my own side as harshly as yours.
There is no evidence for endemic racism and discrimination in the Tory Party. If you have evidence that isn't petulant point scoring or in good faith disagreeing with religious beliefs then share it.
Great news, and I'm sure exactly what all the Brexit supporters voted for.
Yes it is what many of us including me voted for. It's what many politicians including our current Prime Minister and current Home Secretary campaigned for.
Agreed. But you wouldn't have won without the racists.
If Labour had by some fluke squeaked into government in 2019, it wouldn't have done so without the votes of communists and antisemites. What's your point?
The anti semitism in labour will never go away.. its ingrained.
I hope the EHRC investigation will go somewhere to resolving it.
Now what about the Tories and their Islamophobia problem, where is the report that was promised? Odd how the PB Tories don't seem to care about racism when it is their own side.
Cue a hundred 'how can you be racist against a religion' replies and the subsequent death of the soul.
Answer: You can't be.
I just think you're a hypocrite for being appalled at racism and discrimination in one party yet happily voting for another one that has clear evidence of doing similar - but we have covered this ground before.
Excuse me but when my party was taken over by someone I considered a xenophobe I quit it. I've said that more times than I can count. That, not Brexit, is the reason Theresa May disgusts me. So I'm not a hypocrite I judge my own side as harshly as yours.
There is no evidence for endemic racism and discrimination in the Tory Party. If you have evidence that isn't petulant point scoring or in good faith disagreeing with religious beliefs then share it.
You don't though, you're a Tory voter because they're in line with your beliefs on Brexit amongst other things.
I know for a fact you'd vote Tory if they had issues with anything, if it meant getting Brexit. That much is clear from your posting.
Like I said above, I acknowledge my hypocrisy and I have apologised for it. You however, have not.
PB Tories are not consistent. You can attempt to take the moral high ground but the truth of the matter is, the Tory Party has countless issues with racism and prejudice going back years. And to pretend otherwise is just wilfully ignorant.
If you voted Tory or Labour in the GE19 election, you either didn't care about racism, you didn't believe the allegations (hard to see how that can be the case), or you're a hypocrite.
The only voters who can claim to take the moral high ground are probably those that voted Lib Dem.
As I didn't vote Labour, I could sit here and take the moral high ground - but I freely acknowledge I was here saying Labour was the party to vote for. So I accept that.
You do not, so please do not lecture me on anything.
Fabulous news for the Union. A British dog can't be taken for a car ride within Britain without a passport.
As passport checks are now a Good Thing inside our own country can we have checks for people leaving places like Skegness? Requirements to have a passport and to pass sanitary checks before allowed back into civilisation that kind of thing?
Income tax was set up to support the Napoleonic Wars, I wonder if @HYUFD thinks that means its not a tax too?
Income tax reasons of the first few taxes, hence it is called a tax not an insurance like National Insurance
A Jaffa cake is a biscuit.
And the World Series is not open to teams from the whole planet.
A Jaffa cake is not a biscuit according to the court ruling of 1991.
Where is it found in supermarkets? Eh? Not the cake section. Where do you find the Penguin bars? At the pet shop?
It's a biscuit.
I would say it has genuine duality in this regard. By which I mean it is capable of being a cake and simultaneously a biscuit.
Unusual but there are other examples. The testing stats spring to mind. Both above target and lamentably below at one and the same time.
Ah, a quantum biscuit. Like light is waves and particles at the same time.
Exactly so. And all for less than 2 quid a packet. Talk about a bargain.
DYOR but I am told by a mate who is a despatcher for a transport co that he picks up the Lidl knock offs from the same factory as he picks up the branded ones. Also, the real ones are on offer as often as not at Tesco.
White label is a core part of Aldi, Lidl & Costco business plan.
Very little of the Aldi and Lidl products are classic "white label" (value basics floor sweepings). The quality standards set by ALdi and Lidl are usually very high, with their efficiency as a business allowing them to operate on 20% less margin than the big boys and thus pass the saving onto consumers.
I am unsure as to the "knock offs" being talked about. Own label is own label - there are absolutely identical products in most sections in most supermarkets made on the same line with just a different bit of packaging at the end. Frankly the scraggiest own brand stuff can be found in Tesco and especially Asda.
At my children's primary school some twenty years ago, a very well to do German parent rebuked the social climbing snobbery of parents who would claimed only shop in 'quality' supermarkets and wouldn't use the 'discounters'. She said 'in Germany, if you don't shop in Lidl or Aldi you are either profligate or stupid'.
Great news, and I'm sure exactly what all the Brexit supporters voted for.
It will be very entertaining when more black and brown faces end up showing up on our streets.
Why are you bringing race into it? Does racism entertain you?
That seemed out of character.
A lot of Brexiteers voted for racist reasons, to kick foreigners out.
It will be very entertaining when more black and brown people arrive to do the jobs that white people that come from Europe won't be doing anymore.
It was the complete opposite of racism, I am pro immigration.
So am I and so are many Brexiteers.
There was a very good anti-rascism reason to support Brexit: That we should judge potential migrants on who they are rather than where they come from.
On its own do you agree with that principle?
I would be happy with FOM extending to more countries to be honest.
The entire globe or just predominantly white countries?
In principle, any country.
I get that's an unpopular view and so practically not something Labour can actually promise because it will go down badly - but I think in principle FOM should be available to any country.
Are you sure? What if over 100m wanted to come here, which I dont think is a crazy estimate?
Freedom of movement from close neighbours with similar economies was not a political issue, it was when poorer countries joined the EU that it became problematic. Those "poorer" countries were probably above average globally and only about 1-2% of the worlds population.
Great news, and I'm sure exactly what all the Brexit supporters voted for.
It will be very entertaining when more black and brown faces end up showing up on our streets.
Why are you bringing race into it? Does racism entertain you?
That seemed out of character.
It does raise a point though - for those that have a racism issue, white faces from Europe are much harder to pick out of the crowd than somebody in a turban or a burqa.
Agreed. The EU was a racist migration system. Free movement for whites but we will judge others harshly.
Great news, and I'm sure exactly what all the Brexit supporters voted for.
Yes it is what many of us including me voted for. It's what many politicians including our current Prime Minister and current Home Secretary campaigned for.
Agreed. But you wouldn't have won without the racists.
If Labour had by some fluke squeaked into government in 2019, it wouldn't have done so without the votes of communists and antisemites. What's your point?
The anti semitism in labour will never go away.. its ingrained.
I hope the EHRC investigation will go somewhere to resolving it.
Now what about the Tories and their Islamophobia problem, where is the report that was promised? Odd how the PB Tories don't seem to care about racism when it is their own side.
Cue a hundred 'how can you be racist against a religion' replies and the subsequent death of the soul.
Answer: You can't be.
I just think you're a hypocrite for being appalled at racism and discrimination in one party yet happily voting for another one that has clear evidence of doing similar - but we have covered this ground before.
I make a point of never believing allegations of racism in a political party until someone has been given a peerage for proving that there isn't one.
Don't really see how this denies or conflicts with anything I said. I am appalled at racism within Labour, I have apologised for not calling it out quickly enough and on the manner of the peerage, I completely agree with you.
But that does not dispute what I said about racism and prejudice in the Tory Party. And how anyone can claim to take the moral high ground on racism and then vote Tory is beyond me.
Great news, and I'm sure exactly what all the Brexit supporters voted for.
It will be very entertaining when more black and brown faces end up showing up on our streets.
Why are you bringing race into it? Does racism entertain you?
That seemed out of character.
A lot of Brexiteers voted for racist reasons, to kick foreigners out.
It will be very entertaining when more black and brown people arrive to do the jobs that white people that come from Europe won't be doing anymore.
It was the complete opposite of racism, I am pro immigration.
So am I and so are many Brexiteers.
There was a very good anti-rascism reason to support Brexit: That we should judge potential migrants on who they are rather than where they come from.
On its own do you agree with that principle?
I would be happy with FOM extending to more countries to be honest.
The entire globe or just predominantly white countries?
In principle, any country.
I get that's an unpopular view and so practically not something Labour can actually promise because it will go down badly - but I think in principle FOM should be available to any country.
Are you sure? What if over 100m wanted to come here, which I dont think is a crazy estimate?
Freedom of movement from close neighbours with similar economies was not a political issue, it was when poorer countries joined the EU that it became problematic. Those "poorer" countries were probably above average globally and only about 1-2% of the worlds population.
In principle I support FOM from any country. I was asked a question and I answered it.
Pharmaceutical giant AstraZeneca today announced it has the capacity to make one billion doses of an experimental coronavirus vaccine.
UK has reportedly ordered 100million doses for a population of 66million people
The Brentford-based firm has signed a deal to mass-produce Oxford University's promising COVID-19 jab and has agreements to supply 400million doses already.
US health officials – who have spent $1billion (£806,000) on funding the vaccine – announced today they have ordered 300million doses and hope to receive them for October.
Comments
Here's to many, many more of the same!
An immigration system that limits immigration for skills/areas where there are no shortages of labour - perfectly possible.
And it is the latter that is upsetting the people I am talking about.
That seemed out of character.
It will be very entertaining when more black and brown people arrive to do the jobs that white people that come from Europe won't be doing anymore.
It was the complete opposite of racism, I am pro immigration.
If they continue to "fail" as most seem to perceive it, I am very happy with that.
But then I had no issues with FOM anyway.
Actually I might pitch that concept to Channel 4. Has promise.
BNP and Corbynites share racism with them. They should be abhored.
If someone wants to come here and we want them then that's the end of the matter.
Dennis Skinner in the posh seats of the Royal Albert Hall
There was a very good anti-rascism reason to support Brexit: That we should judge potential migrants on who they are rather than where they come from.
On its own do you agree with that principle?
I once got some progressives to agree that all medical staff should have their ability to change jobs and/or leave the country subject to government control.....
I don't care about the racists. Their views are deplorable and I won't change my beliefs because of theirs. Its like arguing against vegetarianism on the basis that Hitler was one.
Remember this prescient piece when I warned Corbyn not to dress like a gypo?
https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2015/09/11/some-fashion-advice-for-jeremy-corbyn/
If he had listened to me to sooner he might have become PM.
Several stated that skills were racist - since certain societies/groups have lower skill levels.
Others stated that controlled immigration based on skills etc was "cheating" - not taking in enough of the "problematic" immigrants.
One seemed very worried that we would get all the farmers from South Africa...
I am also very, very reliably informed that the same thing happens in confectionary.
Warren pivots on Medicare for All in bid to become Biden's VP
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/21/warren-vice-president-271938
This, from the article, was a well made point:
...“This is a guy who has been preparing to be president nearly his entire adult life and knows the job of VP better than anyone who’s made this decision in a generation or maybe ever," said one Democrat close to the Biden team. “And if you are primarily focused on mobilizing voters in November and not about governing, then you are fundamentally misreading the audience of one that you need to convince.”...
People are free to do what they want to do and are not slaves. That is what my moral consideration says.
I get that's an unpopular view and so practically not something Labour can actually promise because it will go down badly - but I think in principle FOM should be available to any country.
I even got a couple of progressives to add on - if they add to their skills, by experience or more training, their debt should increase.
Debt peonage.....
Now what about the Tories and their Islamophobia problem, where is the report that was promised? Odd how the PB Tories don't seem to care about racism when it is their own side.
Responsibility still goes to the top.
I am unsure as to the "knock offs" being talked about. Own label is own label - there are absolutely identical products in most sections in most supermarkets made on the same line with just a different bit of packaging at the end. Frankly the scraggiest own brand stuff can be found in Tesco and especially Asda.
The Tories have been absolutely dreadful on this issue and as somebody who hates racism I am appalled by it.
I'm equally appalled by what has happened in Labour - but I am glad that the EHRC investigation will provide something of an objective analysis of what has gone on. I trust Starmer most out of those who stood to lead, to resolve this. And the initial signs from the Jewish community are encouraging.
Partly because of problems that the reports might create. i.e. some of the quotes in a couple I have seen are bit.... interesting. As in would make good fodder for the BNP et al.
Only someone with a pathological hostility to the EU or an innate hatred of foreigners would have wanted to upend it as a system in favour of a highly bureaucratic top-down system that relied on Whitehall understanding current recruitment needs.
https://www.eater.com/2017/8/9/16099028/trader-joes-products
https://www.cheatsheet.com/culture/these-are-the-real-brands-behind-your-favorite-trader-joes-snacks.html/
My understanding is one reason brands are happy to do this (often undercutting themselves) is no stocking fees, guaranteed order numbers, etc, compared to the traditional supermarket model where they would be fighting just to get on shelves, let alone sell against the 30 different other brands selling the same product.
https://www.scottishparliament.tv
On NOT the UK Lockdown unwind.
If the same happens with the Tories with substantiated complaints there should be an investigation.
But disagreeing with beliefs is never racism.
But I have acknowledged that as a Labour member and I have provided what I think are reasonable arguments that it is being dealt with.
I do not see the same effort, or evidence for the Tory Party and I find it offensive and hypocritical that PB Tories will play the racism card to score points yet will not look at their own side.
In truth if you were appalled at racism you couldn't have voted for either party in the last election. End of story.
A bit of a "When Harry met Sally" sort of thing
Look in the mirror.
But regardless, my point is that I have acknowledged Labour's racism problems. The other user has not and yet is trying to take the moral high ground, as are you.
But PB Tories are never consistent, I am used to that.
But PB Tories do not do the same.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52751791
Have the government decided a strategy yet for arrivals? Otherwise, we will be back to the start of this process come August.
There is no evidence for endemic racism and discrimination in the Tory Party. If you have evidence that isn't petulant point scoring or in good faith disagreeing with religious beliefs then share it.
I know for a fact you'd vote Tory if they had issues with anything, if it meant getting Brexit. That much is clear from your posting.
Like I said above, I acknowledge my hypocrisy and I have apologised for it. You however, have not.
PB Tories are not consistent. You can attempt to take the moral high ground but the truth of the matter is, the Tory Party has countless issues with racism and prejudice going back years. And to pretend otherwise is just wilfully ignorant.
If you voted Tory or Labour in the GE19 election, you either didn't care about racism, you didn't believe the allegations (hard to see how that can be the case), or you're a hypocrite.
The only voters who can claim to take the moral high ground are probably those that voted Lib Dem.
As I didn't vote Labour, I could sit here and take the moral high ground - but I freely acknowledge I was here saying Labour was the party to vote for. So I accept that.
You do not, so please do not lecture me on anything.
You have a lovely afternoon.
As passport checks are now a Good Thing inside our own country can we have checks for people leaving places like Skegness? Requirements to have a passport and to pass sanitary checks before allowed back into civilisation that kind of thing?
They must fancy it.
Freedom of movement from close neighbours with similar economies was not a political issue, it was when poorer countries joined the EU that it became problematic. Those "poorer" countries were probably above average globally and only about 1-2% of the worlds population.
But that does not dispute what I said about racism and prejudice in the Tory Party. And how anyone can claim to take the moral high ground on racism and then vote Tory is beyond me.
Nurses and cash? Win win.....
UK has reportedly ordered 100million doses for a population of 66million people
The Brentford-based firm has signed a deal to mass-produce Oxford University's promising COVID-19 jab and has agreements to supply 400million doses already.
US health officials – who have spent $1billion (£806,000) on funding the vaccine – announced today they have ordered 300million doses and hope to receive them for October.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8343133/AstraZeneca-begin-supply-Covid-19-vaccine-September.html