politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Joe Biden’s VP pick – the case for Amy Klobuchar
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"...the Cambridge-PHE study showed a huge variation between different age groups, warning the virus has an infection-fatality rate of around 16 per cent of over-75s but saying it was below 0.018 per cent for anyone under the age of 44 - the equivalent of one death for every 10,000 cases.
For people between the ages of 45 and 64, the team said the death rate was around 0.28 per cent. While the rate was in the region of 1.8 per cent for people aged between 65 and 74. "
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8321677/London-records-just-24-new-covid-19-cases-day-raising-hopes-lockdown-eased.html0 -
Really? Or are you making shit up to support the softhead prejudice that one expects from a Trump fanboy?MrEd said:
Ps I have also found them the worst for not paying their cleaners, dog walkers etc during the crisis as wellMrEd said:
Funnily enough, from my experience, the biggest supporters of a draconian, as long as it takes lockdown have been middle class public sector professionals whose wages and pensions are not impacted currently by the crisisHYUFD said:
Either way the private sector working class are being hit hardest at the moment and the public sector middle class surviving best economically the impact of the lockdownkinabalu said:
Interesting how this same issue is presented in differing ways depending on political outlook. For the right - cossetted public sector vs exposed private sector. For the left - privileged middle class professionals vs the exploited working class.Burgessian said:
Unfortunately there is a conflict of interest in the population.DavidL said:
Very rare that I agree with Fraser Nelson these days but I think we are going to have to try some sort of regional controls here. Even in Scotland if you are not in a care home the risk of CV seems pretty minimal outside greater Glasgow. That might not always be the case but there are a lot of people isolated from family and friends, struggling with depression and the multiple side effects of that or in need of treatment for unrelated conditions who are being locked down and are at minimal risk. And there are some who want to go back to work too. People whose wages are not being paid by the State in the main.HYUFD said:
Those working for the public sector (like me) with a guaranteed income and pension are, relatively, content with the lockdown and have no problem with it being extended. Why should we? Safety first and all that. Scotland, of course, has a huge host of comfortably-off middle-class white collar public sector workers who dominate the political system.
My thoughts are with the poor blighters who are in the private sector, are self-employed, who run small businesses, and have mortgages to pay. This situation must seem horrific to them. No-one is clapping for them at 8pm on a Thursday. But I suspect their interests will simply be ignored by the priviligentsia.
Here is Owen Jones with the latter take -
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/12/boris-johnson-working-class-good-luck0 -
Between Covid 19 and Brexit, the forthcoming recession is going to be a sight to behold.SouthamObserver said:
We have been promised a golden tomorrow. It's time to deliver.AlastairMeeks said:
There's a lot of truth in that. The EU has higher priorities and the self-radicalisation conveyor belt of Leavers has not been halted by Covid-19.SouthamObserver said:
Neither side wants a deal enough to do one. We would all be much better off accepting that and getting on with preparing for the consequences.CarlottaVance said:0 -
Funnily enough, friends who are doctors are less relatively draconian, probably because they realise illness comes in many different guises. Civil servants and teachers / lecturers are the worst.SouthamObserver said:
People like doctors, you mean?MrEd said:
Funnily enough, from my experience, the biggest supporters of a draconian, as long as it takes lockdown have been middle class public sector professionals whose wages and pensions are not impacted currently by the crisisHYUFD said:
Either way the private sector working class are being hit hardest at the moment and the public sector middle class surviving best economically the impact of the lockdownkinabalu said:
Interesting how this same issue is presented in differing ways depending on political outlook. For the right - cossetted public sector vs exposed private sector. For the left - privileged middle class professionals vs the exploited working class.Burgessian said:
Unfortunately there is a conflict of interest in the population.DavidL said:
Very rare that I agree with Fraser Nelson these days but I think we are going to have to try some sort of regional controls here. Even in Scotland if you are not in a care home the risk of CV seems pretty minimal outside greater Glasgow. That might not always be the case but there are a lot of people isolated from family and friends, struggling with depression and the multiple side effects of that or in need of treatment for unrelated conditions who are being locked down and are at minimal risk. And there are some who want to go back to work too. People whose wages are not being paid by the State in the main.HYUFD said:
Those working for the public sector (like me) with a guaranteed income and pension are, relatively, content with the lockdown and have no problem with it being extended. Why should we? Safety first and all that. Scotland, of course, has a huge host of comfortably-off middle-class white collar public sector workers who dominate the political system.
My thoughts are with the poor blighters who are in the private sector, are self-employed, who run small businesses, and have mortgages to pay. This situation must seem horrific to them. No-one is clapping for them at 8pm on a Thursday. But I suspect their interests will simply be ignored by the priviligentsia.
Here is Owen Jones with the latter take -
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/12/boris-johnson-working-class-good-luck1 -
If my maths is right the IT project mentioned earlier has wasted about 245 times the amount that Captain Tom Moore raised for the NHS.1
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Weirdly, I paid my cleaner for the first week of lockdown and got my head bitten off; "I can't possibly accept payment for work I haven't done." So I stopped.MrEd said:
Ps I have also found them the worst for not paying their cleaners, dog walkers etc during the crisis as wellMrEd said:
Funnily enough, from my experience, the biggest supporters of a draconian, as long as it takes lockdown have been middle class public sector professionals whose wages and pensions are not impacted currently by the crisisHYUFD said:
Either way the private sector working class are being hit hardest at the moment and the public sector middle class surviving best economically the impact of the lockdownkinabalu said:
Interesting how this same issue is presented in differing ways depending on political outlook. For the right - cossetted public sector vs exposed private sector. For the left - privileged middle class professionals vs the exploited working class.Burgessian said:
Unfortunately there is a conflict of interest in the population.DavidL said:
Very rare that I agree with Fraser Nelson these days but I think we are going to have to try some sort of regional controls here. Even in Scotland if you are not in a care home the risk of CV seems pretty minimal outside greater Glasgow. That might not always be the case but there are a lot of people isolated from family and friends, struggling with depression and the multiple side effects of that or in need of treatment for unrelated conditions who are being locked down and are at minimal risk. And there are some who want to go back to work too. People whose wages are not being paid by the State in the main.HYUFD said:
Those working for the public sector (like me) with a guaranteed income and pension are, relatively, content with the lockdown and have no problem with it being extended. Why should we? Safety first and all that. Scotland, of course, has a huge host of comfortably-off middle-class white collar public sector workers who dominate the political system.
My thoughts are with the poor blighters who are in the private sector, are self-employed, who run small businesses, and have mortgages to pay. This situation must seem horrific to them. No-one is clapping for them at 8pm on a Thursday. But I suspect their interests will simply be ignored by the priviligentsia.
Here is Owen Jones with the latter take -
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/12/boris-johnson-working-class-good-luck0 -
Ragin'!CharlieShark said:A great day for Little Scotlanders.
SNP MP arrested and charged over a dispute about a flag.
Sturgeon breaks her own Stay Home message by visiting her hairdresser to get hair dye
30,000 test results are missing going back to mid-April. No wonder infection rate is so high.
Shambolic. But Little Scotlanders still have confidence.1 -
No, I'm not. My wife and I were laid off. We took a conscious decision we would pay our dogwalker because she is stretched for cash and needs the income. Two of her clients whom we all know, who all have kept their jobs and WFH, and incomes remain unchanged and signal virtue at every opportunity didn't. The dogwalker is stressing out.kinabalu said:
Really? Or are you making shit up to support the softhead prejudice that one expects from a Trump fanboy?MrEd said:
Ps I have also found them the worst for not paying their cleaners, dog walkers etc during the crisis as wellMrEd said:
Funnily enough, from my experience, the biggest supporters of a draconian, as long as it takes lockdown have been middle class public sector professionals whose wages and pensions are not impacted currently by the crisisHYUFD said:
Either way the private sector working class are being hit hardest at the moment and the public sector middle class surviving best economically the impact of the lockdownkinabalu said:
Interesting how this same issue is presented in differing ways depending on political outlook. For the right - cossetted public sector vs exposed private sector. For the left - privileged middle class professionals vs the exploited working class.Burgessian said:
Unfortunately there is a conflict of interest in the population.DavidL said:
Very rare that I agree with Fraser Nelson these days but I think we are going to have to try some sort of regional controls here. Even in Scotland if you are not in a care home the risk of CV seems pretty minimal outside greater Glasgow. That might not always be the case but there are a lot of people isolated from family and friends, struggling with depression and the multiple side effects of that or in need of treatment for unrelated conditions who are being locked down and are at minimal risk. And there are some who want to go back to work too. People whose wages are not being paid by the State in the main.HYUFD said:
Those working for the public sector (like me) with a guaranteed income and pension are, relatively, content with the lockdown and have no problem with it being extended. Why should we? Safety first and all that. Scotland, of course, has a huge host of comfortably-off middle-class white collar public sector workers who dominate the political system.
My thoughts are with the poor blighters who are in the private sector, are self-employed, who run small businesses, and have mortgages to pay. This situation must seem horrific to them. No-one is clapping for them at 8pm on a Thursday. But I suspect their interests will simply be ignored by the priviligentsia.
Here is Owen Jones with the latter take -
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/12/boris-johnson-working-class-good-luck
Ps Grow up. Just because somebody has a point of view you disagree with doesn't make them a "Trump fanboy"0 -
Whitmer has proved she can win in Michigan otherwise she would not have been elected governor there.MrEd said:
As I said, Whitmer is controversial in her state. There is a risk picking her ends up boosting turnout for Trump in Michigan more than it gets the Democrats voters. John James is also a strong Republican senatorial candidate in Michigan this year so it may be too much of an issue. Klobuchar is better but how much do you think Kloubuchar helps in PA or MI?HYUFD said:
He doesn't need a Hispanic, Hillary won Nevada, New Mexico and Colorado unless he picks someone from Arizona, the only western swing state Trump won.MrEd said:
Whitmer is likely to be too controversial given the reaction to her lock down policies, which have been seen as hard line. I think it is too risky for Biden. She could easily mobilise opposition in Michigan.HYUFD said:I think either Klobuchar or Whitmer would be the best VP picks for Biden. Both relatively young and represent key Midwest swing states Biden has to win to win the Electoral College
Klobuchar is a better pick for the Mid-West but I'm not sure she adds much beyond protecting Minnesota and possibly helping in Iowa.
Re whether Biden will go for a African-American VP pick, he doesn't really need to - his support in that constituency is high and Harris didn't do particularly well there. Plus Harris' record as a AG is fairly controversial so it wouldn't help him much I suspect.
I think where the surprise might come for the VP pick is that he picks a Hispanic VP. There are some signs in the polling that the Democrats may be seeing more leakage from the Hispanic vote than the AA vote. If that's the case, you have two candidates, Catherine Cortez (Nevada Senator) and Michelle Lujan (New Mexico Governor). Both would help in the SW, particularly with Arizona and possibly in Texas as well, as well as the general Hispanic vote; both are low risk (Nevada's Governor is a Democrat and NM's Lt-Gov is a Democrat); and both are generally well regarded. Cortez is at 16/1 and Lujan at 50/1 as the VP pick with Ladbrokes but I think Lujan may be the better bet - Cortez apparently doesn't speak Spanish (but understands it) and there are question marks whether she wants the job
He needs the Midwest
Wrong about the Hispanic vote. It plays a surprisingly important part in states such as WI and IA and helps across the US in general, especially if there is a perception Biden will step down which would lead to the election of the first Hispanic President
Hillary won the Hispanic vote clearly in 2016, it was the Midwestern white working class she lost heavily and the Democrats have to make inroads in again to win the Midwest and the Electoral College0 -
Are they now? And how many of them have you spoken to about this?MrEd said:
Funnily enough, friends who are doctors are less relatively draconian, probably because they realise illness comes in many different guises. Civil servants and teachers / lecturers are the worst.SouthamObserver said:
People like doctors, you mean?MrEd said:
Funnily enough, from my experience, the biggest supporters of a draconian, as long as it takes lockdown have been middle class public sector professionals whose wages and pensions are not impacted currently by the crisisHYUFD said:
Either way the private sector working class are being hit hardest at the moment and the public sector middle class surviving best economically the impact of the lockdownkinabalu said:
Interesting how this same issue is presented in differing ways depending on political outlook. For the right - cossetted public sector vs exposed private sector. For the left - privileged middle class professionals vs the exploited working class.Burgessian said:
Unfortunately there is a conflict of interest in the population.DavidL said:
Very rare that I agree with Fraser Nelson these days but I think we are going to have to try some sort of regional controls here. Even in Scotland if you are not in a care home the risk of CV seems pretty minimal outside greater Glasgow. That might not always be the case but there are a lot of people isolated from family and friends, struggling with depression and the multiple side effects of that or in need of treatment for unrelated conditions who are being locked down and are at minimal risk. And there are some who want to go back to work too. People whose wages are not being paid by the State in the main.HYUFD said:
Those working for the public sector (like me) with a guaranteed income and pension are, relatively, content with the lockdown and have no problem with it being extended. Why should we? Safety first and all that. Scotland, of course, has a huge host of comfortably-off middle-class white collar public sector workers who dominate the political system.
My thoughts are with the poor blighters who are in the private sector, are self-employed, who run small businesses, and have mortgages to pay. This situation must seem horrific to them. No-one is clapping for them at 8pm on a Thursday. But I suspect their interests will simply be ignored by the priviligentsia.
Here is Owen Jones with the latter take -
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/12/boris-johnson-working-class-good-luck
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almost all management is based on fads - just follow the latest offerings of all the big strategic consulting firms - within weeks of any shiny new silver bullet appearing Bain, Mars, McKinsey etc will have global experts ready to advise the senior management team in it no matter how patently stupid - then a bit later the others like Accenture will have implementation teams of pimply faced youths ready to tell all the people who have been in the industry for years how they are doing it wrong. Once in a while they get something right.Malmesbury said:
Exactly. The number of times I have encountered senior people who go with whatever the latest article in a gloss mag says...Socky said:
I think that fashion plays a much bigger role in all decision making than we admit.Malmesbury said:
In the case in question, the MBAs were reading the report.
It was written by ignorant fools* who only had experience in setting up and running industrial plants in various countries.
Outsourcing has been very fashionable.0 -
The biggest problem is probably a culture that gets you shot down as soon as you stick your head above the parapet. Whole careers are probably invested, well invested in getting these things completely WRONG.Andy_JS said:If my maths is right the IT project mentioned earlier has wasted about 245 times the amount that Captain Tom Moore raised for the NHS.
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Don't worry - no risk of deaths by falling Yukka tree at garden centres or being hit by a golf ball in Scotland today.CharlieShark said:A great day for Little Scotlanders.
SNP MP arrested and charged over a dispute about a flag.
Sturgeon breaks her own Stay Home message by visiting her hairdresser to get hair dye
30,000 test results are missing going back to mid-April. No wonder infection rate is so high.
Shambolic. But Little Scotlanders still have confidence.1 -
Which ones the doctors or the civil servants / teachers. On the doctors front, two with a couple who are nurses. All fairly pro-Labour, certainly not Conservative. On the civil servant / teacher front, around 3/4.SouthamObserver said:
Are they now? And how many of them have you spoken to about this?MrEd said:
Funnily enough, friends who are doctors are less relatively draconian, probably because they realise illness comes in many different guises. Civil servants and teachers / lecturers are the worst.SouthamObserver said:
People like doctors, you mean?MrEd said:
Funnily enough, from my experience, the biggest supporters of a draconian, as long as it takes lockdown have been middle class public sector professionals whose wages and pensions are not impacted currently by the crisisHYUFD said:
Either way the private sector working class are being hit hardest at the moment and the public sector middle class surviving best economically the impact of the lockdownkinabalu said:
Interesting how this same issue is presented in differing ways depending on political outlook. For the right - cossetted public sector vs exposed private sector. For the left - privileged middle class professionals vs the exploited working class.Burgessian said:
Unfortunately there is a conflict of interest in the population.DavidL said:
Very rare that I agree with Fraser Nelson these days but I think we are going to have to try some sort of regional controls here. Even in Scotland if you are not in a care home the risk of CV seems pretty minimal outside greater Glasgow. That might not always be the case but there are a lot of people isolated from family and friends, struggling with depression and the multiple side effects of that or in need of treatment for unrelated conditions who are being locked down and are at minimal risk. And there are some who want to go back to work too. People whose wages are not being paid by the State in the main.HYUFD said:
Those working for the public sector (like me) with a guaranteed income and pension are, relatively, content with the lockdown and have no problem with it being extended. Why should we? Safety first and all that. Scotland, of course, has a huge host of comfortably-off middle-class white collar public sector workers who dominate the political system.
My thoughts are with the poor blighters who are in the private sector, are self-employed, who run small businesses, and have mortgages to pay. This situation must seem horrific to them. No-one is clapping for them at 8pm on a Thursday. But I suspect their interests will simply be ignored by the priviligentsia.
Here is Owen Jones with the latter take -
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/12/boris-johnson-working-class-good-luck
Shall we get Kantar to do a poll just to make sure?
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Still more atmosphere than at the Emirates...Nigelb said:(Guardian)
...Life-sized cardboard cutouts of football fans are being used to try to provide atmosphere at empty stadiums in Germany as the suspended Bundesliga gets ready to resume.
Thousands of Borussia Moenchengladbach fans have ordered €18 cutouts of themselves for their first home fixture at Borussia Park next week, Reuters reports...1 -
Aren't you virtue signalling over your benevolence to your dogwalker?MrEd said:
No, I'm not. My wife and I were laid off. We took a conscious decision we would pay our dogwalker because she is stretched for cash and needs the income. Two of her clients whom we all know, who all have kept their jobs and WFH, and incomes remain unchanged and signal virtue at every opportunity didn't. The dogwalker is stressing out.kinabalu said:
Really? Or are you making shit up to support the softhead prejudice that one expects from a Trump fanboy?MrEd said:
Ps I have also found them the worst for not paying their cleaners, dog walkers etc during the crisis as wellMrEd said:
Funnily enough, from my experience, the biggest supporters of a draconian, as long as it takes lockdown have been middle class public sector professionals whose wages and pensions are not impacted currently by the crisisHYUFD said:
Either way the private sector working class are being hit hardest at the moment and the public sector middle class surviving best economically the impact of the lockdownkinabalu said:
Interesting how this same issue is presented in differing ways depending on political outlook. For the right - cossetted public sector vs exposed private sector. For the left - privileged middle class professionals vs the exploited working class.Burgessian said:
Unfortunately there is a conflict of interest in the population.DavidL said:
Very rare that I agree with Fraser Nelson these days but I think we are going to have to try some sort of regional controls here. Even in Scotland if you are not in a care home the risk of CV seems pretty minimal outside greater Glasgow. That might not always be the case but there are a lot of people isolated from family and friends, struggling with depression and the multiple side effects of that or in need of treatment for unrelated conditions who are being locked down and are at minimal risk. And there are some who want to go back to work too. People whose wages are not being paid by the State in the main.HYUFD said:
Those working for the public sector (like me) with a guaranteed income and pension are, relatively, content with the lockdown and have no problem with it being extended. Why should we? Safety first and all that. Scotland, of course, has a huge host of comfortably-off middle-class white collar public sector workers who dominate the political system.
My thoughts are with the poor blighters who are in the private sector, are self-employed, who run small businesses, and have mortgages to pay. This situation must seem horrific to them. No-one is clapping for them at 8pm on a Thursday. But I suspect their interests will simply be ignored by the priviligentsia.
Here is Owen Jones with the latter take -
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/12/boris-johnson-working-class-good-luck
Ps Grow up. Just because somebody has a point of view you disagree with doesn't make them a "Trump fanboy"
Can you say who you would prefer to win WH2020? Please show your workings.0 -
It's going to be quite a thing to live through. But we've been promised that we'll be better off not extending the transition and clearly the government will have to deliver on that, so however bad it is here we can expect it to be much worse in the EU27.eek said:
Between Covid 19 and Brexit, the forthcoming recession is going to be a sight to behold.SouthamObserver said:
We have been promised a golden tomorrow. It's time to deliver.AlastairMeeks said:
There's a lot of truth in that. The EU has higher priorities and the self-radicalisation conveyor belt of Leavers has not been halted by Covid-19.SouthamObserver said:
Neither side wants a deal enough to do one. We would all be much better off accepting that and getting on with preparing for the consequences.CarlottaVance said:
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So, it's a 50/50 split among the public sector professionals you have spoken to. And, at most, you have spoken to two teachers. No need to do any polling on that. I believe you. I am just not sure you have a credible sample.MrEd said:
Which ones the doctors or the civil servants / teachers. On the doctors front, two with a couple who are nurses. All fairly pro-Labour, certainly not Conservative. On the civil servant / teacher front, around 3/4.SouthamObserver said:
Are they now? And how many of them have you spoken to about this?MrEd said:
Funnily enough, friends who are doctors are less relatively draconian, probably because they realise illness comes in many different guises. Civil servants and teachers / lecturers are the worst.SouthamObserver said:
People like doctors, you mean?MrEd said:
Funnily enough, from my experience, the biggest supporters of a draconian, as long as it takes lockdown have been middle class public sector professionals whose wages and pensions are not impacted currently by the crisisHYUFD said:
Either way the private sector working class are being hit hardest at the moment and the public sector middle class surviving best economically the impact of the lockdownkinabalu said:
Interesting how this same issue is presented in differing ways depending on political outlook. For the right - cossetted public sector vs exposed private sector. For the left - privileged middle class professionals vs the exploited working class.Burgessian said:
Unfortunately there is a conflict of interest in the population.DavidL said:
Very rare that I agree with Fraser Nelson these days but I think we are going to have to try some sort of regional controls here. Even in Scotland if you are not in a care home the risk of CV seems pretty minimal outside greater Glasgow. That might not always be the case but there are a lot of people isolated from family and friends, struggling with depression and the multiple side effects of that or in need of treatment for unrelated conditions who are being locked down and are at minimal risk. And there are some who want to go back to work too. People whose wages are not being paid by the State in the main.HYUFD said:
Those working for the public sector (like me) with a guaranteed income and pension are, relatively, content with the lockdown and have no problem with it being extended. Why should we? Safety first and all that. Scotland, of course, has a huge host of comfortably-off middle-class white collar public sector workers who dominate the political system.
My thoughts are with the poor blighters who are in the private sector, are self-employed, who run small businesses, and have mortgages to pay. This situation must seem horrific to them. No-one is clapping for them at 8pm on a Thursday. But I suspect their interests will simply be ignored by the priviligentsia.
Here is Owen Jones with the latter take -
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/12/boris-johnson-working-class-good-luck
Shall we get Kantar to do a poll just to make sure?
0 -
I gather it was the only reasonable, or possibly only, one Grandson One could get, since his mother, our daughter, died of MND when she was under 50. Most life insurers took one look at that and took fright.Malmesbury said:
Yes - in the Vitality scheme, they subsidise the purchase of fitness items. They heavily encourage you to purchase a watch type fitness tracker (you can get the rewards without it, but it's fiddly). You link that through to their systems.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Malmesbury, sounds almost like the black box that car insurers use to measure driving behaviour and alter premiums accordingly (lower for safer drivers).
The rewards included massive discounts on some airline flights (ha!), free cinema tickets (ha!) on a weekly basis and other reasonably valuable stuff
All based on *sustained* levels of activity - points towards levels (sliver, gold etc)0 -
I assume you are being sarcastic. Johnson/Cummings are hoping to hide the economic mess of a no trade deal brexit under the pandemic.SouthamObserver said:
It's going to be quite a thing to live through. But we've been promised that we'll be better off not extending the transition and clearly the government will have to deliver on that, so however bad it is here we can expect it to be much worse in the EU27.eek said:
Between Covid 19 and Brexit, the forthcoming recession is going to be a sight to behold.SouthamObserver said:
We have been promised a golden tomorrow. It's time to deliver.AlastairMeeks said:
There's a lot of truth in that. The EU has higher priorities and the self-radicalisation conveyor belt of Leavers has not been halted by Covid-19.SouthamObserver said:
Neither side wants a deal enough to do one. We would all be much better off accepting that and getting on with preparing for the consequences.CarlottaVance said:
Next winter is going to be awful, really, really awful.0 -
Hardly virtue signalling - they are admitting considering not paying someone.Theuniondivvie said:
Aren't you virtue signalling over your benevolence to your dogwalker?MrEd said:
No, I'm not. My wife and I were laid off. We took a conscious decision we would pay our dogwalker because she is stretched for cash and needs the income. Two of her clients whom we all know, who all have kept their jobs and WFH, and incomes remain unchanged and signal virtue at every opportunity didn't. The dogwalker is stressing out.kinabalu said:
Really? Or are you making shit up to support the softhead prejudice that one expects from a Trump fanboy?MrEd said:
Ps I have also found them the worst for not paying their cleaners, dog walkers etc during the crisis as wellMrEd said:
Funnily enough, from my experience, the biggest supporters of a draconian, as long as it takes lockdown have been middle class public sector professionals whose wages and pensions are not impacted currently by the crisisHYUFD said:
Either way the private sector working class are being hit hardest at the moment and the public sector middle class surviving best economically the impact of the lockdownkinabalu said:
Interesting how this same issue is presented in differing ways depending on political outlook. For the right - cossetted public sector vs exposed private sector. For the left - privileged middle class professionals vs the exploited working class.Burgessian said:
Unfortunately there is a conflict of interest in the population.DavidL said:
Very rare that I agree with Fraser Nelson these days but I think we are going to have to try some sort of regional controls here. Even in Scotland if you are not in a care home the risk of CV seems pretty minimal outside greater Glasgow. That might not always be the case but there are a lot of people isolated from family and friends, struggling with depression and the multiple side effects of that or in need of treatment for unrelated conditions who are being locked down and are at minimal risk. And there are some who want to go back to work too. People whose wages are not being paid by the State in the main.HYUFD said:
Those working for the public sector (like me) with a guaranteed income and pension are, relatively, content with the lockdown and have no problem with it being extended. Why should we? Safety first and all that. Scotland, of course, has a huge host of comfortably-off middle-class white collar public sector workers who dominate the political system.
My thoughts are with the poor blighters who are in the private sector, are self-employed, who run small businesses, and have mortgages to pay. This situation must seem horrific to them. No-one is clapping for them at 8pm on a Thursday. But I suspect their interests will simply be ignored by the priviligentsia.
Here is Owen Jones with the latter take -
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/12/boris-johnson-working-class-good-luck
Ps Grow up. Just because somebody has a point of view you disagree with doesn't make them a "Trump fanboy"
Can you say who you would prefer to win WH2020? Please show your workings.0 -
Other countries are finding a way to do it and every business is going to have to find a way to do it. They will need to find a way around the capacity issue - half in the morning, half in the afternoon. Half in one day half the next.Wulfrun_Phil said:
Had you ever worked in a school you might appreciate the utter impossibility of social distancing even at a fraction of full capacity.OllyT said:
Given that nurses, care workers, doctors, bus drivers, policemen, supermarket staff etc have been carrying on putting themselves at risk for 2 months now through the worst of this first wave, I wonder if the public are soon going to become resentful of teachers saying they refuse to go back to work until they decide they are safe.Burgessian said:
Unfortunately there is a conflict of interest in the population.DavidL said:
Very rare that I agree with Fraser Nelson these days but I think we are going to have to try some sort of regional controls here. Even in Scotland if you are not in a care home the risk of CV seems pretty minimal outside greater Glasgow. That might not always be the case but there are a lot of people isolated from family and friends, struggling with depression and the multiple side effects of that or in need of treatment for unrelated conditions who are being locked down and are at minimal risk. And there are some who want to go back to work too. People whose wages are not being paid by the State in the main.HYUFD said:
Those working for the public sector (like me) with a guaranteed income and pension are, relatively, content with the lockdown and have no problem with it being extended. Why should we? Safety first and all that. Scotland, of course, has a huge host of comfortably-off middle-class white collar public sector workers who dominate the political system.
My thoughts are with the poor blighters who are in the private sector, are self-employed, who run small businesses, and have mortgages to pay. This situation must seem horrific to them. No-one is clapping for them at 8pm on a Thursday. But I suspect their interests will simply be ignored by the priviligentsia.
I appreciate some teachers will have been carrying on and there are serious issues at stake but at times it comes across as though teachers believe they are somehow special compared to everyone else, thank goodness nurses and care workers didn't have the same attitude. Perhaps it's just the union bods that seem totally out of touch with what everyone else is going through.
Closing schools early, together with closing pubs/restaurants and banning mass gatherings, was found to have been a significant factor associated with countries which contained the disease more effectively in lockdown.
https://www.itv.com/news/anglia/2020-05-11/uea-research-finds-closing-schools-most-effective-lockdown-measure/0 -
Interesting point that. Many of the GP practices seem to have basically shut up shop in my neck of the woods. Happy to do phone/online consultations though.SouthamObserver said:
People like doctors, you mean?MrEd said:
Funnily enough, from my experience, the biggest supporters of a draconian, as long as it takes lockdown have been middle class public sector professionals whose wages and pensions are not impacted currently by the crisisHYUFD said:
Either way the private sector working class are being hit hardest at the moment and the public sector middle class surviving best economically the impact of the lockdownkinabalu said:
Interesting how this same issue is presented in differing ways depending on political outlook. For the right - cossetted public sector vs exposed private sector. For the left - privileged middle class professionals vs the exploited working class.Burgessian said:
Unfortunately there is a conflict of interest in the population.DavidL said:
Very rare that I agree with Fraser Nelson these days but I think we are going to have to try some sort of regional controls here. Even in Scotland if you are not in a care home the risk of CV seems pretty minimal outside greater Glasgow. That might not always be the case but there are a lot of people isolated from family and friends, struggling with depression and the multiple side effects of that or in need of treatment for unrelated conditions who are being locked down and are at minimal risk. And there are some who want to go back to work too. People whose wages are not being paid by the State in the main.HYUFD said:
Those working for the public sector (like me) with a guaranteed income and pension are, relatively, content with the lockdown and have no problem with it being extended. Why should we? Safety first and all that. Scotland, of course, has a huge host of comfortably-off middle-class white collar public sector workers who dominate the political system.
My thoughts are with the poor blighters who are in the private sector, are self-employed, who run small businesses, and have mortgages to pay. This situation must seem horrific to them. No-one is clapping for them at 8pm on a Thursday. But I suspect their interests will simply be ignored by the priviligentsia.
Here is Owen Jones with the latter take -
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/12/boris-johnson-working-class-good-luck0 -
DK Brown -Pulpstar said:
The biggest problem is probably a culture that gets you shot down as soon as you stick your head above the parapet. Whole careers are probably invested, well invested in getting these things completely WRONG.Andy_JS said:If my maths is right the IT project mentioned earlier has wasted about 245 times the amount that Captain Tom Moore raised for the NHS.
MOD Stages of a Project
Enthusiasm
Disillusionment
Panic
Search for the Guilty
Punishment of the Innocent
Praise and Honour for the Non-Participants
For context - he was quoting this in connection with HMS Captain.
1 -
This bankrupt - in all senses - administration is only interested in pandering to its ideologue followers, it seems.CarlottaVance said:0 -
I know way more doctors than that, and they're generally reacting much more strongly than the teachers.MrEd said:
Which ones the doctors or the civil servants / teachers. On the doctors front, two with a couple who are nurses. All fairly pro-Labour, certainly not Conservative. On the civil servant / teacher front, around 3/4.SouthamObserver said:
Are they now? And how many of them have you spoken to about this?MrEd said:
Funnily enough, friends who are doctors are less relatively draconian, probably because they realise illness comes in many different guises. Civil servants and teachers / lecturers are the worst.SouthamObserver said:
People like doctors, you mean?MrEd said:
Funnily enough, from my experience, the biggest supporters of a draconian, as long as it takes lockdown have been middle class public sector professionals whose wages and pensions are not impacted currently by the crisisHYUFD said:
Either way the private sector working class are being hit hardest at the moment and the public sector middle class surviving best economically the impact of the lockdownkinabalu said:
Interesting how this same issue is presented in differing ways depending on political outlook. For the right - cossetted public sector vs exposed private sector. For the left - privileged middle class professionals vs the exploited working class.Burgessian said:
Unfortunately there is a conflict of interest in the population.DavidL said:
Very rare that I agree with Fraser Nelson these days but I think we are going to have to try some sort of regional controls here. Even in Scotland if you are not in a care home the risk of CV seems pretty minimal outside greater Glasgow. That might not always be the case but there are a lot of people isolated from family and friends, struggling with depression and the multiple side effects of that or in need of treatment for unrelated conditions who are being locked down and are at minimal risk. And there are some who want to go back to work too. People whose wages are not being paid by the State in the main.HYUFD said:
Those working for the public sector (like me) with a guaranteed income and pension are, relatively, content with the lockdown and have no problem with it being extended. Why should we? Safety first and all that. Scotland, of course, has a huge host of comfortably-off middle-class white collar public sector workers who dominate the political system.
My thoughts are with the poor blighters who are in the private sector, are self-employed, who run small businesses, and have mortgages to pay. This situation must seem horrific to them. No-one is clapping for them at 8pm on a Thursday. But I suspect their interests will simply be ignored by the priviligentsia.
Here is Owen Jones with the latter take -
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/12/boris-johnson-working-class-good-luck
Shall we get Kantar to do a poll just to make sure?
The teachers are mostly plastering social media with reminders that they're still working. The doctors are pumping out scare stories about the horrors they've seen with pleas to obey the government advice.
I agree that in general middle class professionals who can comfortably work from home are less likely to oppose the lockdown, albeit that should probably be obvious. For everyone else, it seems to be a question of how much respect they have for authority. There is some sort of age factor to this which seems correlated to views on Brexit, and whether they'd already "had enough of experts". .0 -
Well hats off you and a big raspberry to them on that. And commiserations on the job loss. I hope things work out for you.MrEd said:
No, I'm not. My wife and I were laid off. We took a conscious decision we would pay our dogwalker because she is stretched for cash and needs the income. Two of her clients whom we all know, who all have kept their jobs and WFH, and incomes remain unchanged and signal virtue at every opportunity didn't. The dogwalker is stressing out.kinabalu said:
Really? Or are you making shit up to support the softhead prejudice that one expects from a Trump fanboy?MrEd said:
Ps I have also found them the worst for not paying their cleaners, dog walkers etc during the crisis as wellMrEd said:
Funnily enough, from my experience, the biggest supporters of a draconian, as long as it takes lockdown have been middle class public sector professionals whose wages and pensions are not impacted currently by the crisisHYUFD said:
Either way the private sector working class are being hit hardest at the moment and the public sector middle class surviving best economically the impact of the lockdownkinabalu said:
Interesting how this same issue is presented in differing ways depending on political outlook. For the right - cossetted public sector vs exposed private sector. For the left - privileged middle class professionals vs the exploited working class.Burgessian said:
Unfortunately there is a conflict of interest in the population.DavidL said:
Very rare that I agree with Fraser Nelson these days but I think we are going to have to try some sort of regional controls here. Even in Scotland if you are not in a care home the risk of CV seems pretty minimal outside greater Glasgow. That might not always be the case but there are a lot of people isolated from family and friends, struggling with depression and the multiple side effects of that or in need of treatment for unrelated conditions who are being locked down and are at minimal risk. And there are some who want to go back to work too. People whose wages are not being paid by the State in the main.HYUFD said:
Those working for the public sector (like me) with a guaranteed income and pension are, relatively, content with the lockdown and have no problem with it being extended. Why should we? Safety first and all that. Scotland, of course, has a huge host of comfortably-off middle-class white collar public sector workers who dominate the political system.
My thoughts are with the poor blighters who are in the private sector, are self-employed, who run small businesses, and have mortgages to pay. This situation must seem horrific to them. No-one is clapping for them at 8pm on a Thursday. But I suspect their interests will simply be ignored by the priviligentsia.
Here is Owen Jones with the latter take -
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/12/boris-johnson-working-class-good-luck
Ps Grow up. Just because somebody has a point of view you disagree with doesn't make them a "Trump fanboy"
Your PS is spot on. Just because somebody disagrees with me about US politics does not make them a Trump fanboy.
But you were giving credence and succour to "Obamagate" the other day. And that is a red flag symptom of Trumpophilia.0 -
Not really. I didn't say upfront we were paying, only when challenged. Kinablu asked for information so I answered.Theuniondivvie said:
Aren't you virtue signalling over your benevolence to your dogwalker?MrEd said:
No, I'm not. My wife and I were laid off. We took a conscious decision we would pay our dogwalker because she is stretched for cash and needs the income. Two of her clients whom we all know, who all have kept their jobs and WFH, and incomes remain unchanged and signal virtue at every opportunity didn't. The dogwalker is stressing out.kinabalu said:
Really? Or are you making shit up to support the softhead prejudice that one expects from a Trump fanboy?MrEd said:
Ps I have also found them the worst for not paying their cleaners, dog walkers etc during the crisis as wellMrEd said:
Funnily enough, from my experience, the biggest supporters of a draconian, as long as it takes lockdown have been middle class public sector professionals whose wages and pensions are not impacted currently by the crisisHYUFD said:
Either way the private sector working class are being hit hardest at the moment and the public sector middle class surviving best economically the impact of the lockdownkinabalu said:
Interesting how this same issue is presented in differing ways depending on political outlook. For the right - cossetted public sector vs exposed private sector. For the left - privileged middle class professionals vs the exploited working class.Burgessian said:
Unfortunately there is a conflict of interest in the population.DavidL said:
Very rare that I agree with Fraser Nelson these days but I think we are going to have to try some sort of regional controls here. Even in Scotland if you are not in a care home the risk of CV seems pretty minimal outside greater Glasgow. That might not always be the case but there are a lot of people isolated from family and friends, struggling with depression and the multiple side effects of that or in need of treatment for unrelated conditions who are being locked down and are at minimal risk. And there are some who want to go back to work too. People whose wages are not being paid by the State in the main.HYUFD said:
Those working for the public sector (like me) with a guaranteed income and pension are, relatively, content with the lockdown and have no problem with it being extended. Why should we? Safety first and all that. Scotland, of course, has a huge host of comfortably-off middle-class white collar public sector workers who dominate the political system.
My thoughts are with the poor blighters who are in the private sector, are self-employed, who run small businesses, and have mortgages to pay. This situation must seem horrific to them. No-one is clapping for them at 8pm on a Thursday. But I suspect their interests will simply be ignored by the priviligentsia.
Here is Owen Jones with the latter take -
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/12/boris-johnson-working-class-good-luck
Ps Grow up. Just because somebody has a point of view you disagree with doesn't make them a "Trump fanboy"
Can you say who you would prefer to win WH2020? Please show your workings.
On who would prefer to win the WH, Trump over Biden. I think Trump personally is an absolutely a*se as a human being. But his analysis on China has been right strategically and I think for the coming problems, it is better to have him than Biden.
Ps at the risk of being seen to virtue signal (again), I did say a few threads back that, even though I am a Conservative, I did think the closing of the mines in the 1980s was wrong as it destroyed the communities. Voting one way doesn't mean you have to agree with everything.0 -
New Zealand, Denmark, Germany, Austria etc are reopening schools but they proved more effective at containing Covid than we did.OllyT said:
Other countries are finding a way to do it and every business is going to have to find a way to do it. They will need to find a way around the capacity issue - half in the morning, half in the afternoon. Half in one day half the next.Wulfrun_Phil said:
Had you ever worked in a school you might appreciate the utter impossibility of social distancing even at a fraction of full capacity.OllyT said:
Given that nurses, care workers, doctors, bus drivers, policemen, supermarket staff etc have been carrying on putting themselves at risk for 2 months now through the worst of this first wave, I wonder if the public are soon going to become resentful of teachers saying they refuse to go back to work until they decide they are safe.Burgessian said:
Unfortunately there is a conflict of interest in the population.DavidL said:
Very rare that I agree with Fraser Nelson these days but I think we are going to have to try some sort of regional controls here. Even in Scotland if you are not in a care home the risk of CV seems pretty minimal outside greater Glasgow. That might not always be the case but there are a lot of people isolated from family and friends, struggling with depression and the multiple side effects of that or in need of treatment for unrelated conditions who are being locked down and are at minimal risk. And there are some who want to go back to work too. People whose wages are not being paid by the State in the main.HYUFD said:
Those working for the public sector (like me) with a guaranteed income and pension are, relatively, content with the lockdown and have no problem with it being extended. Why should we? Safety first and all that. Scotland, of course, has a huge host of comfortably-off middle-class white collar public sector workers who dominate the political system.
My thoughts are with the poor blighters who are in the private sector, are self-employed, who run small businesses, and have mortgages to pay. This situation must seem horrific to them. No-one is clapping for them at 8pm on a Thursday. But I suspect their interests will simply be ignored by the priviligentsia.
I appreciate some teachers will have been carrying on and there are serious issues at stake but at times it comes across as though teachers believe they are somehow special compared to everyone else, thank goodness nurses and care workers didn't have the same attitude. Perhaps it's just the union bods that seem totally out of touch with what everyone else is going through.
Closing schools early, together with closing pubs/restaurants and banning mass gatherings, was found to have been a significant factor associated with countries which contained the disease more effectively in lockdown.
https://www.itv.com/news/anglia/2020-05-11/uea-research-finds-closing-schools-most-effective-lockdown-measure/
Italy, which had about the same death rate as we did, is not reopening schools until September0 -
That's not surprising really. Nicola is closing down Scotland for longer so clearly that means a second spike is less likely. The question is whether it is a proportionate response given the economic damage and health/welfare consequence of prolonged mass isolation. Maybe. Maybe not. Tough call.Theuniondivvie said:Difficult to tell who will be more enraged, the Yoons or the Wingers.
https://twitter.com/HTScotPol/status/1261181009418215424?s=201 -
Interesting to have a few Trump supporters like you here, ensures all views are heardMrEd said:
Not really. I didn't say upfront we were paying, only when challenged. Kinablu asked for information so I answered.Theuniondivvie said:
Aren't you virtue signalling over your benevolence to your dogwalker?MrEd said:
No, I'm not. My wife and I were laid off. We took a conscious decision we would pay our dogwalker because she is stretched for cash and needs the income. Two of her clients whom we all know, who all have kept their jobs and WFH, and incomes remain unchanged and signal virtue at every opportunity didn't. The dogwalker is stressing out.kinabalu said:
Really? Or are you making shit up to support the softhead prejudice that one expects from a Trump fanboy?MrEd said:
Ps I have also found them the worst for not paying their cleaners, dog walkers etc during the crisis as wellMrEd said:
Funnily enough, from my experience, the biggest supporters of a draconian, as long as it takes lockdown have been middle class public sector professionals whose wages and pensions are not impacted currently by the crisisHYUFD said:
Either way the private sector working class are being hit hardest at the moment and the public sector middle class surviving best economically the impact of the lockdownkinabalu said:
Interesting how this same issue is presented in differing ways depending on political outlook. For the right - cossetted public sector vs exposed private sector. For the left - privileged middle class professionals vs the exploited working class.Burgessian said:
Unfortunately there is a conflict of interest in the population.DavidL said:
Very rare that I agree with Fraser Nelson these days but I think we are going to have to try some sort of regional controls here. Even in Scotland if you are not in a care home the risk of CV seems pretty minimal outside greater Glasgow. That might not always be the case but there are a lot of people isolated from family and friends, struggling with depression and the multiple side effects of that or in need of treatment for unrelated conditions who are being locked down and are at minimal risk. And there are some who want to go back to work too. People whose wages are not being paid by the State in the main.HYUFD said:
Those working for the public sector (like me) with a guaranteed income and pension are, relatively, content with the lockdown and have no problem with it being extended. Why should we? Safety first and all that. Scotland, of course, has a huge host of comfortably-off middle-class white collar public sector workers who dominate the political system.
My thoughts are with the poor blighters who are in the private sector, are self-employed, who run small businesses, and have mortgages to pay. This situation must seem horrific to them. No-one is clapping for them at 8pm on a Thursday. But I suspect their interests will simply be ignored by the priviligentsia.
Here is Owen Jones with the latter take -
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/12/boris-johnson-working-class-good-luck
Ps Grow up. Just because somebody has a point of view you disagree with doesn't make them a "Trump fanboy"
Can you say who you would prefer to win WH2020? Please show your workings.
On who would prefer to win the WH, Trump over Biden. I think Trump personally is an absolutely a*se as a human being. But his analysis on China has been right strategically and I think for the coming problems, it is better to have him than Biden.
Ps at the risk of being seen to virtue signal (again), I did say a few threads back that, even though I am a Conservative, I did think the closing of the mines in the 1980s was wrong as it destroyed the communities. Voting one way doesn't mean you have to agree with everything.0 -
The country has plenty of people who would prefer to eat grass rather than make compromises on their identity. Many of them are in government.FF43 said:
This bankrupt - in all senses - administration is only interested in pandering to its ideologue followers, it seems.CarlottaVance said:0 -
The problem for Biden's team is the Veep has to be bullet proof. Trump will say relentlessly that Biden wont last a term and so look at the veep, she will be POTUS, and look she is/has done/represents etc etc etc.HYUFD said:
Whitmer has proved she can win in Michigan otherwise she would not have been elected governor there.MrEd said:
As I said, Whitmer is controversial in her state. There is a risk picking her ends up boosting turnout for Trump in Michigan more than it gets the Democrats voters. John James is also a strong Republican senatorial candidate in Michigan this year so it may be too much of an issue. Klobuchar is better but how much do you think Kloubuchar helps in PA or MI?HYUFD said:
He doesn't need a Hispanic, Hillary won Nevada, New Mexico and Colorado unless he picks someone from Arizona, the only western swing state Trump won.MrEd said:
Whitmer is likely to be too controversial given the reaction to her lock down policies, which have been seen as hard line. I think it is too risky for Biden. She could easily mobilise opposition in Michigan.HYUFD said:I think either Klobuchar or Whitmer would be the best VP picks for Biden. Both relatively young and represent key Midwest swing states Biden has to win to win the Electoral College
Klobuchar is a better pick for the Mid-West but I'm not sure she adds much beyond protecting Minnesota and possibly helping in Iowa.
Re whether Biden will go for a African-American VP pick, he doesn't really need to - his support in that constituency is high and Harris didn't do particularly well there. Plus Harris' record as a AG is fairly controversial so it wouldn't help him much I suspect.
I think where the surprise might come for the VP pick is that he picks a Hispanic VP. There are some signs in the polling that the Democrats may be seeing more leakage from the Hispanic vote than the AA vote. If that's the case, you have two candidates, Catherine Cortez (Nevada Senator) and Michelle Lujan (New Mexico Governor). Both would help in the SW, particularly with Arizona and possibly in Texas as well, as well as the general Hispanic vote; both are low risk (Nevada's Governor is a Democrat and NM's Lt-Gov is a Democrat); and both are generally well regarded. Cortez is at 16/1 and Lujan at 50/1 as the VP pick with Ladbrokes but I think Lujan may be the better bet - Cortez apparently doesn't speak Spanish (but understands it) and there are question marks whether she wants the job
He needs the Midwest
Wrong about the Hispanic vote. It plays a surprisingly important part in states such as WI and IA and helps across the US in general, especially if there is a perception Biden will step down which would lead to the election of the first Hispanic President
Hillary won the Hispanic vote clearly in 2016, it was the Midwestern white working class she lost heavily and the Democrats have to make inroads in again to win the Midwest and the Electoral College
0 -
Contrast - my GP has worked very hard to move everything online. Got everyone on her lists who is vulnerable signed up on the government scheme. Got medicine deliveries organised. Actively working to get people who need to, going to the hospital.Burgessian said:
Interesting point that. Many of the GP practices seem to have basically shut up shop in my neck of the woods. Happy to do phone/online consultations though.SouthamObserver said:
People like doctors, you mean?MrEd said:
Funnily enough, from my experience, the biggest supporters of a draconian, as long as it takes lockdown have been middle class public sector professionals whose wages and pensions are not impacted currently by the crisisHYUFD said:
Either way the private sector working class are being hit hardest at the moment and the public sector middle class surviving best economically the impact of the lockdownkinabalu said:
Interesting how this same issue is presented in differing ways depending on political outlook. For the right - cossetted public sector vs exposed private sector. For the left - privileged middle class professionals vs the exploited working class.Burgessian said:
Unfortunately there is a conflict of interest in the population.DavidL said:
Very rare that I agree with Fraser Nelson these days but I think we are going to have to try some sort of regional controls here. Even in Scotland if you are not in a care home the risk of CV seems pretty minimal outside greater Glasgow. That might not always be the case but there are a lot of people isolated from family and friends, struggling with depression and the multiple side effects of that or in need of treatment for unrelated conditions who are being locked down and are at minimal risk. And there are some who want to go back to work too. People whose wages are not being paid by the State in the main.HYUFD said:
Those working for the public sector (like me) with a guaranteed income and pension are, relatively, content with the lockdown and have no problem with it being extended. Why should we? Safety first and all that. Scotland, of course, has a huge host of comfortably-off middle-class white collar public sector workers who dominate the political system.
My thoughts are with the poor blighters who are in the private sector, are self-employed, who run small businesses, and have mortgages to pay. This situation must seem horrific to them. No-one is clapping for them at 8pm on a Thursday. But I suspect their interests will simply be ignored by the priviligentsia.
Here is Owen Jones with the latter take -
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/12/boris-johnson-working-class-good-luck
Another GP, next practise over. The phone doesn't get answered.0 -
An extremely old and well polished chestnut. Surely The Rangers trophy record should preclude such a move?
https://twitter.com/beINSPORTS_EN/status/1261227320871981056?s=200 -
As there isn't sufficient time to install the customs computers / support / physical checks / infrastructure before year end, I guess we're about to see what happens when France shuts their side of the border. "They won't / can't do that" has always been the refrain from hard-Brexit foamers, and yet they can and they have during this crisis.SouthamObserver said:
Neither side wants a deal enough to do one. We would all be much better off accepting that and getting on with preparing for the consequences.CarlottaVance said:
Whatever happened to the party of business? Or the party of the Union? Or the party of Conservatism?0 -
That's not what has been promised. Not extending the transition, we have been told, is going to help us recover more quickly.rottenborough said:
I assume you are being sarcastic. Johnson/Cummings are hoping to hide the economic mess of a no trade deal brexit under the pandemic.SouthamObserver said:
It's going to be quite a thing to live through. But we've been promised that we'll be better off not extending the transition and clearly the government will have to deliver on that, so however bad it is here we can expect it to be much worse in the EU27.eek said:
Between Covid 19 and Brexit, the forthcoming recession is going to be a sight to behold.SouthamObserver said:
We have been promised a golden tomorrow. It's time to deliver.AlastairMeeks said:
There's a lot of truth in that. The EU has higher priorities and the self-radicalisation conveyor belt of Leavers has not been halted by Covid-19.SouthamObserver said:
Neither side wants a deal enough to do one. We would all be much better off accepting that and getting on with preparing for the consequences.CarlottaVance said:
Next winter is going to be awful, really, really awful.
0 -
About as smart as those who believed a Brexit deal will be the 'easiest thing in human history'.Philip_Thompson said:
I wonder how smart all the Remainers who voted down May's soft Brexit deal are feeling now?CarlottaVance said:0 -
Well, thanks for the best wishes, hopefully it won't be too long but who knows!kinabalu said:
Well hats off you and a big raspberry to them on that. And commiserations on the job loss. I hope things work out for you.MrEd said:
No, I'm not. My wife and I were laid off. We took a conscious decision we would pay our dogwalker because she is stretched for cash and needs the income. Two of her clients whom we all know, who all have kept their jobs and WFH, and incomes remain unchanged and signal virtue at every opportunity didn't. The dogwalker is stressing out.kinabalu said:
Really? Or are you making shit up to support the softhead prejudice that one expects from a Trump fanboy?MrEd said:
Ps I have also found them the worst for not paying their cleaners, dog walkers etc during the crisis as wellMrEd said:
Funnily enough, from my experience, the biggest supporters of a draconian, as long as it takes lockdown have been middle class public sector professionals whose wages and pensions are not impacted currently by the crisisHYUFD said:
Either way the private sector working class are being hit hardest at the moment and the public sector middle class surviving best economically the impact of the lockdownkinabalu said:
Interesting how this same issue is presented in differing ways depending on political outlook. For the right - cossetted public sector vs exposed private sector. For the left - privileged middle class professionals vs the exploited working class.Burgessian said:
Unfortunately there is a conflict of interest in the population.DavidL said:
Very rare that I agree with Fraser Nelson these days but I think we are going to have to try some sort of regional controls here. Even in Scotland if you are not in a care home the risk of CV seems pretty minimal outside greater Glasgow. That might not always be the case but there are a lot of people isolated from family and friends, struggling with depression and the multiple side effects of that or in need of treatment for unrelated conditions who are being locked down and are at minimal risk. And there are some who want to go back to work too. People whose wages are not being paid by the State in the main.HYUFD said:
Those working for the public sector (like me) with a guaranteed income and pension are, relatively, content with the lockdown and have no problem with it being extended. Why should we? Safety first and all that. Scotland, of course, has a huge host of comfortably-off middle-class white collar public sector workers who dominate the political system.
My thoughts are with the poor blighters who are in the private sector, are self-employed, who run small businesses, and have mortgages to pay. This situation must seem horrific to them. No-one is clapping for them at 8pm on a Thursday. But I suspect their interests will simply be ignored by the priviligentsia.
Here is Owen Jones with the latter take -
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/12/boris-johnson-working-class-good-luck
Ps Grow up. Just because somebody has a point of view you disagree with doesn't make them a "Trump fanboy"
Your PS is spot on. Just because somebody disagrees with me about US politics does not make them a Trump fanboy.
But you were giving credence and succour to "Obamagate" the other day. And that is a red flag symptom of Trumpophilia.
Just on Obamagate, I mentioned to Uniondivvie, I'm a Conservative but disagreed with the pit closures. The thing with Obamagate is that, when you look at the information, there are a lot of points that don't look right and that needs further investigation. Put it another way, if the Trump administration applied for a surveillance warrant against the Biden campaign based on information paid for by the RNC and then, when he lost, suggested that information should be withheld from an incoming Democrat candidate, many on here would be crying foul and I would also be calling for an investigation.
I might be wrong on Obamagate but, looking at what has come out so far, there needs to be at least questions regardless of your political affiliation1 -
The likelihood, we have been told, is that the French and the other EU member states will be begging for a deal when they see how hurt they are and how unaffected we are by the non-extension.RochdalePioneers said:
As there isn't sufficient time to install the customs computers / support / physical checks / infrastructure before year end, I guess we're about to see what happens when France shuts their side of the border. "They won't / can't do that" has always been the refrain from hard-Brexit foamers, and yet they can and they have during this crisis.SouthamObserver said:
Neither side wants a deal enough to do one. We would all be much better off accepting that and getting on with preparing for the consequences.CarlottaVance said:
Whatever happened to the party of business? Or the party of the Union? Or the party of Conservatism?
0 -
Not sure Celtic would like life in the relegation zone every year in the EPL or Rangers in League One.Theuniondivvie said:An extremely old and well polished chestnut. Surely The Rangers trophy record should preclude such a move?
https://twitter.com/beINSPORTS_EN/status/1261227320871981056?s=200 -
Luckily, those in government will not have to eat grass. They are wealthy and very well-connected. They will be fine whatever happens. Phew.AlastairMeeks said:
The country has plenty of people who would prefer to eat grass rather than make compromises on their identity. Many of them are in government.FF43 said:
This bankrupt - in all senses - administration is only interested in pandering to its ideologue followers, it seems.CarlottaVance said:
0 -
I think the problem is thus - Trump is the latest in a line of increasingly bad behaviour. Patriot Act, I am looking at you.MrEd said:
Well, thanks for the best wishes, hopefully it won't be too long but who knows!kinabalu said:
Well hats off you and a big raspberry to them on that. And commiserations on the job loss. I hope things work out for you.MrEd said:
No, I'm not. My wife and I were laid off. We took a conscious decision we would pay our dogwalker because she is stretched for cash and needs the income. Two of her clients whom we all know, who all have kept their jobs and WFH, and incomes remain unchanged and signal virtue at every opportunity didn't. The dogwalker is stressing out.kinabalu said:
Really? Or are you making shit up to support the softhead prejudice that one expects from a Trump fanboy?MrEd said:
Ps I have also found them the worst for not paying their cleaners, dog walkers etc during the crisis as wellMrEd said:
Funnily enough, from my experience, the biggest supporters of a draconian, as long as it takes lockdown have been middle class public sector professionals whose wages and pensions are not impacted currently by the crisisHYUFD said:
Either way the private sector working class are being hit hardest at the moment and the public sector middle class surviving best economically the impact of the lockdownkinabalu said:
Interesting how this same issue is presented in differing ways depending on political outlook. For the right - cossetted public sector vs exposed private sector. For the left - privileged middle class professionals vs the exploited working class.Burgessian said:
Unfortunately there is a conflict of interest in the population.DavidL said:
Very rare that I agree with Fraser Nelson these days but I think we are going to have to try some sort of regional controls here. Even in Scotland if you are not in a care home the risk of CV seems pretty minimal outside greater Glasgow. That might not always be the case but there are a lot of people isolated from family and friends, struggling with depression and the multiple side effects of that or in need of treatment for unrelated conditions who are being locked down and are at minimal risk. And there are some who want to go back to work too. People whose wages are not being paid by the State in the main.HYUFD said:
Those working for the public sector (like me) with a guaranteed income and pension are, relatively, content with the lockdown and have no problem with it being extended. Why should we? Safety first and all that. Scotland, of course, has a huge host of comfortably-off middle-class white collar public sector workers who dominate the political system.
My thoughts are with the poor blighters who are in the private sector, are self-employed, who run small businesses, and have mortgages to pay. This situation must seem horrific to them. No-one is clapping for them at 8pm on a Thursday. But I suspect their interests will simply be ignored by the priviligentsia.
Here is Owen Jones with the latter take -
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/12/boris-johnson-working-class-good-luck
Ps Grow up. Just because somebody has a point of view you disagree with doesn't make them a "Trump fanboy"
Your PS is spot on. Just because somebody disagrees with me about US politics does not make them a Trump fanboy.
But you were giving credence and succour to "Obamagate" the other day. And that is a red flag symptom of Trumpophilia.
Just on Obamagate, I mentioned to Uniondivvie, I'm a Conservative but disagreed with the pit closures. The thing with Obamagate is that, when you look at the information, there are a lot of points that don't look right and that needs further investigation. Put it another way, if the Trump administration applied for a surveillance warrant against the Biden campaign based on information paid for by the RNC and then, when he lost, suggested that information should be withheld from an incoming Democrat candidate, many on here would be crying foul and I would also be calling for an investigation.
I might be wrong on Obamagate but, looking at what has come out so far, there needs to be at least questions regardless of your political affiliation
Trump is particularly egregious, but what the US needs is rolling back of far more than just Trumps actions.0 -
A friend who works at the Care Quality Commission says they are full of praise for the Care Homes who they think have done a fantastic job but are damning of the GPs who have basically not helped at all, particularly helping out elderly patients stuck at home. Guess it depends on the practice thoughBurgessian said:
Interesting point that. Many of the GP practices seem to have basically shut up shop in my neck of the woods. Happy to do phone/online consultations though.SouthamObserver said:
People like doctors, you mean?MrEd said:
Funnily enough, from my experience, the biggest supporters of a draconian, as long as it takes lockdown have been middle class public sector professionals whose wages and pensions are not impacted currently by the crisisHYUFD said:
Either way the private sector working class are being hit hardest at the moment and the public sector middle class surviving best economically the impact of the lockdownkinabalu said:
Interesting how this same issue is presented in differing ways depending on political outlook. For the right - cossetted public sector vs exposed private sector. For the left - privileged middle class professionals vs the exploited working class.Burgessian said:
Unfortunately there is a conflict of interest in the population.DavidL said:
Very rare that I agree with Fraser Nelson these days but I think we are going to have to try some sort of regional controls here. Even in Scotland if you are not in a care home the risk of CV seems pretty minimal outside greater Glasgow. That might not always be the case but there are a lot of people isolated from family and friends, struggling with depression and the multiple side effects of that or in need of treatment for unrelated conditions who are being locked down and are at minimal risk. And there are some who want to go back to work too. People whose wages are not being paid by the State in the main.HYUFD said:
Those working for the public sector (like me) with a guaranteed income and pension are, relatively, content with the lockdown and have no problem with it being extended. Why should we? Safety first and all that. Scotland, of course, has a huge host of comfortably-off middle-class white collar public sector workers who dominate the political system.
My thoughts are with the poor blighters who are in the private sector, are self-employed, who run small businesses, and have mortgages to pay. This situation must seem horrific to them. No-one is clapping for them at 8pm on a Thursday. But I suspect their interests will simply be ignored by the priviligentsia.
Here is Owen Jones with the latter take -
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/12/boris-johnson-working-class-good-luck0 -
Ah, Trump's 'analysis' of China.MrEd said:
Not really. I didn't say upfront we were paying, only when challenged. Kinablu asked for information so I answered.Theuniondivvie said:
Aren't you virtue signalling over your benevolence to your dogwalker?MrEd said:
No, I'm not. My wife and I were laid off. We took a conscious decision we would pay our dogwalker because she is stretched for cash and needs the income. Two of her clients whom we all know, who all have kept their jobs and WFH, and incomes remain unchanged and signal virtue at every opportunity didn't. The dogwalker is stressing out.kinabalu said:
Really? Or are you making shit up to support the softhead prejudice that one expects from a Trump fanboy?MrEd said:
Ps I have also found them the worst for not paying their cleaners, dog walkers etc during the crisis as wellMrEd said:
Funnily enough, from my experience, the biggest supporters of a draconian, as long as it takes lockdown have been middle class public sector professionals whose wages and pensions are not impacted currently by the crisisHYUFD said:
Either way the private sector working class are being hit hardest at the moment and the public sector middle class surviving best economically the impact of the lockdownkinabalu said:
Interesting how this same issue is presented in differing ways depending on political outlook. For the right - cossetted public sector vs exposed private sector. For the left - privileged middle class professionals vs the exploited working class.Burgessian said:
Unfortunately there is a conflict of interest in the population.DavidL said:
Very rare that I agree with Fraser Nelson these days but I think we are going to have to try some sort of regional controls here. Even in Scotland if you are not in a care home the risk of CV seems pretty minimal outside greater Glasgow. That might not always be the case but there are a lot of people isolated from family and friends, struggling with depression and the multiple side effects of that or in need of treatment for unrelated conditions who are being locked down and are at minimal risk. And there are some who want to go back to work too. People whose wages are not being paid by the State in the main.HYUFD said:
Those working for the public sector (like me) with a guaranteed income and pension are, relatively, content with the lockdown and have no problem with it being extended. Why should we? Safety first and all that. Scotland, of course, has a huge host of comfortably-off middle-class white collar public sector workers who dominate the political system.
My thoughts are with the poor blighters who are in the private sector, are self-employed, who run small businesses, and have mortgages to pay. This situation must seem horrific to them. No-one is clapping for them at 8pm on a Thursday. But I suspect their interests will simply be ignored by the priviligentsia.
Here is Owen Jones with the latter take -
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/12/boris-johnson-working-class-good-luck
Ps Grow up. Just because somebody has a point of view you disagree with doesn't make them a "Trump fanboy"
Can you say who you would prefer to win WH2020? Please show your workings.
On who would prefer to win the WH, Trump over Biden. I think Trump personally is an absolutely a*se as a human being. But his analysis on China has been right strategically and I think for the coming problems, it is better to have him than Biden.
Ps at the risk of being seen to virtue signal (again), I did say a few threads back that, even though I am a Conservative, I did think the closing of the mines in the 1980s was wrong as it destroyed the communities. Voting one way doesn't mean you have to agree with everything.
“China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus. The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!”
“And, honestly, I think, as tough as this negotiation was, I think our relationship with China now might be the best it's been in a long, long time. And now it's reciprocal. Before, we were being ripped off badly. Now we have a reciprocal relationship, maybe even better than reciprocal for us.”
plus more in the same vein, all this year.
https://tinyurl.com/y7yzzxls0 -
is that time of the year already ? thought Covid might have delayed the annual "OF for england" kite flying for a couple of months.Theuniondivvie said:An extremely old and well polished chestnut. Surely The Rangers trophy record should preclude such a move?
https://twitter.com/beINSPORTS_EN/status/1261227320871981056?s=200 -
I bet this is quite common. It would have changed from a wage into charity and people can be too proud to accept that. You did the right thing making the offer, though, IMO.IshmaelZ said:
Weirdly, I paid my cleaner for the first week of lockdown and got my head bitten off; "I can't possibly accept payment for work I haven't done." So I stopped.MrEd said:
Ps I have also found them the worst for not paying their cleaners, dog walkers etc during the crisis as wellMrEd said:
Funnily enough, from my experience, the biggest supporters of a draconian, as long as it takes lockdown have been middle class public sector professionals whose wages and pensions are not impacted currently by the crisisHYUFD said:
Either way the private sector working class are being hit hardest at the moment and the public sector middle class surviving best economically the impact of the lockdownkinabalu said:
Interesting how this same issue is presented in differing ways depending on political outlook. For the right - cossetted public sector vs exposed private sector. For the left - privileged middle class professionals vs the exploited working class.Burgessian said:
Unfortunately there is a conflict of interest in the population.DavidL said:
Very rare that I agree with Fraser Nelson these days but I think we are going to have to try some sort of regional controls here. Even in Scotland if you are not in a care home the risk of CV seems pretty minimal outside greater Glasgow. That might not always be the case but there are a lot of people isolated from family and friends, struggling with depression and the multiple side effects of that or in need of treatment for unrelated conditions who are being locked down and are at minimal risk. And there are some who want to go back to work too. People whose wages are not being paid by the State in the main.HYUFD said:
Those working for the public sector (like me) with a guaranteed income and pension are, relatively, content with the lockdown and have no problem with it being extended. Why should we? Safety first and all that. Scotland, of course, has a huge host of comfortably-off middle-class white collar public sector workers who dominate the political system.
My thoughts are with the poor blighters who are in the private sector, are self-employed, who run small businesses, and have mortgages to pay. This situation must seem horrific to them. No-one is clapping for them at 8pm on a Thursday. But I suspect their interests will simply be ignored by the priviligentsia.
Here is Owen Jones with the latter take -
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/12/boris-johnson-working-class-good-luck1 -
Don't Cardiff and Swansea play in English football?Theuniondivvie said:An extremely old and well polished chestnut. Surely The Rangers trophy record should preclude such a move?
https://twitter.com/beINSPORTS_EN/status/1261227320871981056?s=200 -
Given the EU's refusal to recognise British lab standards (something they extend to Japan, Australia, NZ etc) I fear you may be right. You have to wonder at the long term strategic thinking on both sides of the Channel.SouthamObserver said:
Neither side wants a deal enough to do one. We would all be much better off accepting that and getting on with preparing for the consequences.CarlottaVance said:
Disgraceful the way EU countries are not addressing UK Citizen's rights too, when there are so many more EU citizens in the UK than UK citizens in the EU.2 -
Increasingly we are hearing more and more medical professionals saying we will have to live with this for years....those hoping if we just wait another couple of months and then little johnny wont be at any risk going to school are living in la la land.OllyT said:
Other countries are finding a way to do it and every business is going to have to find a way to do it. They will need to find a way around the capacity issue - half in the morning, half in the afternoon. Half in one day half the next.Wulfrun_Phil said:
Had you ever worked in a school you might appreciate the utter impossibility of social distancing even at a fraction of full capacity.OllyT said:
Given that nurses, care workers, doctors, bus drivers, policemen, supermarket staff etc have been carrying on putting themselves at risk for 2 months now through the worst of this first wave, I wonder if the public are soon going to become resentful of teachers saying they refuse to go back to work until they decide they are safe.Burgessian said:
Unfortunately there is a conflict of interest in the population.DavidL said:
Very rare that I agree with Fraser Nelson these days but I think we are going to have to try some sort of regional controls here. Even in Scotland if you are not in a care home the risk of CV seems pretty minimal outside greater Glasgow. That might not always be the case but there are a lot of people isolated from family and friends, struggling with depression and the multiple side effects of that or in need of treatment for unrelated conditions who are being locked down and are at minimal risk. And there are some who want to go back to work too. People whose wages are not being paid by the State in the main.HYUFD said:
Those working for the public sector (like me) with a guaranteed income and pension are, relatively, content with the lockdown and have no problem with it being extended. Why should we? Safety first and all that. Scotland, of course, has a huge host of comfortably-off middle-class white collar public sector workers who dominate the political system.
My thoughts are with the poor blighters who are in the private sector, are self-employed, who run small businesses, and have mortgages to pay. This situation must seem horrific to them. No-one is clapping for them at 8pm on a Thursday. But I suspect their interests will simply be ignored by the priviligentsia.
I appreciate some teachers will have been carrying on and there are serious issues at stake but at times it comes across as though teachers believe they are somehow special compared to everyone else, thank goodness nurses and care workers didn't have the same attitude. Perhaps it's just the union bods that seem totally out of touch with what everyone else is going through.
Closing schools early, together with closing pubs/restaurants and banning mass gatherings, was found to have been a significant factor associated with countries which contained the disease more effectively in lockdown.
https://www.itv.com/news/anglia/2020-05-11/uea-research-finds-closing-schools-most-effective-lockdown-measure/0 -
At the moment I would predict a much worse outcome for the EU, mainly because of Germany's absolute opposition to QE or even the buying of government bonds by the ECB as shown by the current impasse. This means that the response to the crisis is going to be almost entirely fiscal rather than a combination of fiscal and monetary policy such as we will have here. Large scale fiscal injections are possible for countries like Germany who can borrow at negative interest rates but will be very difficult for countries like Italy and Spain with the result that there will be much greater unemployment and business collapse in the latter countries.SouthamObserver said:
It's going to be quite a thing to live through. But we've been promised that we'll be better off not extending the transition and clearly the government will have to deliver on that, so however bad it is here we can expect it to be much worse in the EU27.eek said:
Between Covid 19 and Brexit, the forthcoming recession is going to be a sight to behold.SouthamObserver said:
We have been promised a golden tomorrow. It's time to deliver.AlastairMeeks said:
There's a lot of truth in that. The EU has higher priorities and the self-radicalisation conveyor belt of Leavers has not been halted by Covid-19.SouthamObserver said:
Neither side wants a deal enough to do one. We would all be much better off accepting that and getting on with preparing for the consequences.CarlottaVance said:
This will, of course, do the UK no good whatsoever depressing exports and possibly making the trade agreement more problematic. The EU are going to face internal stresses and strains that will make 2008 look like a walk in the park. State aid is going to be another pressure point as France is already showing.3 -
The other aspect to this is that a lot of teachers have an inbuilt loathing of Conservative governments, and are very unprepared to believe their assurances that their working environment is safe. A slightly less charitable view is that a lot of them tend to act - deliberately or otherwise - as a campaigning front for the Labour party.OllyT said:
Given that nurses, care workers, doctors, bus drivers, policemen, supermarket staff etc have been carrying on putting themselves at risk for 2 months now through the worst of this first wave, I wonder if the public are soon going to become resentful of teachers saying they refuse to go back to work until they decide they are safe.Burgessian said:
Unfortunately there is a conflict of interest in the population.DavidL said:
Very rare that I agree with Fraser Nelson these days but I think we are going to have to try some sort of regional controls here. Even in Scotland if you are not in a care home the risk of CV seems pretty minimal outside greater Glasgow. That might not always be the case but there are a lot of people isolated from family and friends, struggling with depression and the multiple side effects of that or in need of treatment for unrelated conditions who are being locked down and are at minimal risk. And there are some who want to go back to work too. People whose wages are not being paid by the State in the main.HYUFD said:
Those working for the public sector (like me) with a guaranteed income and pension are, relatively, content with the lockdown and have no problem with it being extended. Why should we? Safety first and all that. Scotland, of course, has a huge host of comfortably-off middle-class white collar public sector workers who dominate the political system.
My thoughts are with the poor blighters who are in the private sector, are self-employed, who run small businesses, and have mortgages to pay. This situation must seem horrific to them. No-one is clapping for them at 8pm on a Thursday. But I suspect their interests will simply be ignored by the priviligentsia.
I appreciate some teachers will have been carrying on and there are serious issues at stake but at times it comes across as though teachers believe they are somehow special compared to everyone else, thank goodness nurses and care workers didn't have the same attitude. Perhaps it's just the union bods that seem totally out of touch with what everyone else is going through.1 -
That's being the examples he has given this year when he was seeking a trade deal. But there were plenty of examples when he was on the campaign trail in 2016 (and before) when he talked about the growing strategic threat from China and he was laughed at.Theuniondivvie said:
Ah, Trump's 'analysis' of China.MrEd said:
Not really. I didn't say upfront we were paying, only when challenged. Kinablu asked for information so I answered.Theuniondivvie said:
Aren't you virtue signalling over your benevolence to your dogwalker?MrEd said:
No, I'm not. My wife and I were laid off. We took a conscious decision we would pay our dogwalker because she is stretched for cash and needs the income. Two of her clients whom we all know, who all have kept their jobs and WFH, and incomes remain unchanged and signal virtue at every opportunity didn't. The dogwalker is stressing out.kinabalu said:
Really? Or are you making shit up to support the softhead prejudice that one expects from a Trump fanboy?MrEd said:
Ps I have also found them the worst for not paying their cleaners, dog walkers etc during the crisis as wellMrEd said:
Funnily enough, from my experience, the biggest supporters of a draconian, as long as it takes lockdown have been middle class public sector professionals whose wages and pensions are not impacted currently by the crisisHYUFD said:
Either way the private sector working class are being hit hardest at the moment and the public sector middle class surviving best economically the impact of the lockdownkinabalu said:
Interesting how this same issue is presented in differing ways depending on political outlook. For the right - cossetted public sector vs exposed private sector. For the left - privileged middle class professionals vs the exploited working class.Burgessian said:
Unfortunately there is a conflict of interest in the population.DavidL said:
Very rare that I agree with Fraser Nelson these days but I think we are going to have to try some sort of regional controls here. Even in Scotland if you are not in a care home the risk of CV seems pretty minimal outside greater Glasgow. That might not always be the case but there are a lot of people isolated from family and friends, struggling with depression and the multiple side effects of that or in need of treatment for unrelated conditions who are being locked down and are at minimal risk. And there are some who want to go back to work too. People whose wages are not being paid by the State in the main.HYUFD said:
Those working for the public sector (like me) with a guaranteed income and pension are, relatively, content with the lockdown and have no problem with it being extended. Why should we? Safety first and all that. Scotland, of course, has a huge host of comfortably-off middle-class white collar public sector workers who dominate the political system.
My thoughts are with the poor blighters who are in the private sector, are self-employed, who run small businesses, and have mortgages to pay. This situation must seem horrific to them. No-one is clapping for them at 8pm on a Thursday. But I suspect their interests will simply be ignored by the priviligentsia.
Here is Owen Jones with the latter take -
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/12/boris-johnson-working-class-good-luck
Ps Grow up. Just because somebody has a point of view you disagree with doesn't make them a "Trump fanboy"
Can you say who you would prefer to win WH2020? Please show your workings.
On who would prefer to win the WH, Trump over Biden. I think Trump personally is an absolutely a*se as a human being. But his analysis on China has been right strategically and I think for the coming problems, it is better to have him than Biden.
Ps at the risk of being seen to virtue signal (again), I did say a few threads back that, even though I am a Conservative, I did think the closing of the mines in the 1980s was wrong as it destroyed the communities. Voting one way doesn't mean you have to agree with everything.
“China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus. The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!”
“And, honestly, I think, as tough as this negotiation was, I think our relationship with China now might be the best it's been in a long, long time. And now it's reciprocal. Before, we were being ripped off badly. Now we have a reciprocal relationship, maybe even better than reciprocal for us.”
plus more in the same vein, all this year.
https://tinyurl.com/y7yzzxls
It's a bit like Obama taking the mick out of Romney in 2012 about Russia being a threat only for the Democrats to realise it was the biggest strategic threat when Trump was elected0 -
Brexit is supposed to raise £350 million a week.Andy_JS said:If my maths is right the IT project mentioned earlier has wasted about 245 times the amount that Captain Tom Moore raised for the NHS.
1 -
Disgraced former Sky football pundit Andy Gray? When did his view become of any relevance again?Theuniondivvie said:An extremely old and well polished chestnut. Surely The Rangers trophy record should preclude such a move?
https://twitter.com/beINSPORTS_EN/status/1261227320871981056?s=200 -
Would be delighted if that ever happened - even if it meant starting in League 2.Theuniondivvie said:An extremely old and well polished chestnut. Surely The Rangers trophy record should preclude such a move?
https://twitter.com/beINSPORTS_EN/status/1261227320871981056?s=20
Standard of refereeing and governance of the game in Scotland is garbage.
However cant see any non English Premier League football bothering to start until crowds are allowed back in. Maybe the Championship if TV money is available.
0 -
Actually B&Q, which has a garden centre of sorts, is open. Beware the Yukka!TGOHF666 said:
Don't worry - no risk of deaths by falling Yukka tree at garden centres or being hit by a golf ball in Scotland today.CharlieShark said:A great day for Little Scotlanders.
SNP MP arrested and charged over a dispute about a flag.
Sturgeon breaks her own Stay Home message by visiting her hairdresser to get hair dye
30,000 test results are missing going back to mid-April. No wonder infection rate is so high.
Shambolic. But Little Scotlanders still have confidence.0 -
Mmm.HYUFD said:
Interesting to have a few Trump supporters like you here, ensures all views are heardMrEd said:
Not really. I didn't say upfront we were paying, only when challenged. Kinablu asked for information so I answered.Theuniondivvie said:
Aren't you virtue signalling over your benevolence to your dogwalker?MrEd said:
No, I'm not. My wife and I were laid off. We took a conscious decision we would pay our dogwalker because she is stretched for cash and needs the income. Two of her clients whom we all know, who all have kept their jobs and WFH, and incomes remain unchanged and signal virtue at every opportunity didn't. The dogwalker is stressing out.kinabalu said:
Really? Or are you making shit up to support the softhead prejudice that one expects from a Trump fanboy?MrEd said:
Ps I have also found them the worst for not paying their cleaners, dog walkers etc during the crisis as wellMrEd said:
Funnily enough, from my experience, the biggest supporters of a draconian, as long as it takes lockdown have been middle class public sector professionals whose wages and pensions are not impacted currently by the crisisHYUFD said:
Either way the private sector working class are being hit hardest at the moment and the public sector middle class surviving best economically the impact of the lockdownkinabalu said:
Interesting how this same issue is presented in differing ways depending on political outlook. For the right - cossetted public sector vs exposed private sector. For the left - privileged middle class professionals vs the exploited working class.Burgessian said:
Unfortunately there is a conflict of interest in the population.DavidL said:
Very rare that I agree with Fraser Nelson these days but I think we are going to have to try some sort of regional controls here. Even in Scotland if you are not in a care home the risk of CV seems pretty minimal outside greater Glasgow. That might not always be the case but there are a lot of people isolated from family and friends, struggling with depression and the multiple side effects of that or in need of treatment for unrelated conditions who are being locked down and are at minimal risk. And there are some who want to go back to work too. People whose wages are not being paid by the State in the main.HYUFD said:
Those working for the public sector (like me) with a guaranteed income and pension are, relatively, content with the lockdown and have no problem with it being extended. Why should we? Safety first and all that. Scotland, of course, has a huge host of comfortably-off middle-class white collar public sector workers who dominate the political system.
My thoughts are with the poor blighters who are in the private sector, are self-employed, who run small businesses, and have mortgages to pay. This situation must seem horrific to them. No-one is clapping for them at 8pm on a Thursday. But I suspect their interests will simply be ignored by the priviligentsia.
Here is Owen Jones with the latter take -
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/12/boris-johnson-working-class-good-luck
Ps Grow up. Just because somebody has a point of view you disagree with doesn't make them a "Trump fanboy"
Can you say who you would prefer to win WH2020? Please show your workings.
On who would prefer to win the WH, Trump over Biden. I think Trump personally is an absolutely a*se as a human being. But his analysis on China has been right strategically and I think for the coming problems, it is better to have him than Biden.
Ps at the risk of being seen to virtue signal (again), I did say a few threads back that, even though I am a Conservative, I did think the closing of the mines in the 1980s was wrong as it destroyed the communities. Voting one way doesn't mean you have to agree with everything.0 -
We are where we are. Both sides should now just get on with preparing for the consequences of that.CarlottaVance said:
Given the EU's refusal to recognise British lab standards (something they extend to Japan, Australia, NZ etc) I fear you may be right. You have to wonder at the long term strategic thinking on both sides of the Channel.SouthamObserver said:
Neither side wants a deal enough to do one. We would all be much better off accepting that and getting on with preparing for the consequences.CarlottaVance said:
Disgraceful the way EU countries are not addressing UK Citizen's rights too, when there are so many more EU citizens in the UK than UK citizens in the EU.
0 -
I would say that is uncharitable - what the teaching Unions say/do relates to the behaviour of the average teacher in about the same way that the NUS represents the views of the average student.Endillion said:
The other aspect to this is that a lot of teachers have an inbuilt loathing of Conservative governments, and are very unprepared to believe their assurances that their working environment is safe. A slightly less charitable view is that a lot of them tend to act - deliberately or otherwise - as a campaigning front for the Labour party.OllyT said:
Given that nurses, care workers, doctors, bus drivers, policemen, supermarket staff etc have been carrying on putting themselves at risk for 2 months now through the worst of this first wave, I wonder if the public are soon going to become resentful of teachers saying they refuse to go back to work until they decide they are safe.Burgessian said:
Unfortunately there is a conflict of interest in the population.DavidL said:
Very rare that I agree with Fraser Nelson these days but I think we are going to have to try some sort of regional controls here. Even in Scotland if you are not in a care home the risk of CV seems pretty minimal outside greater Glasgow. That might not always be the case but there are a lot of people isolated from family and friends, struggling with depression and the multiple side effects of that or in need of treatment for unrelated conditions who are being locked down and are at minimal risk. And there are some who want to go back to work too. People whose wages are not being paid by the State in the main.HYUFD said:
Those working for the public sector (like me) with a guaranteed income and pension are, relatively, content with the lockdown and have no problem with it being extended. Why should we? Safety first and all that. Scotland, of course, has a huge host of comfortably-off middle-class white collar public sector workers who dominate the political system.
My thoughts are with the poor blighters who are in the private sector, are self-employed, who run small businesses, and have mortgages to pay. This situation must seem horrific to them. No-one is clapping for them at 8pm on a Thursday. But I suspect their interests will simply be ignored by the priviligentsia.
I appreciate some teachers will have been carrying on and there are serious issues at stake but at times it comes across as though teachers believe they are somehow special compared to everyone else, thank goodness nurses and care workers didn't have the same attitude. Perhaps it's just the union bods that seem totally out of touch with what everyone else is going through.
In the various private and state schools I know of, everyone is working out what can be done and how. There are concerns, but the response to things is not so much RunRoundScreamIngOnFireWhileAngry as HowCanWeMakeThisWork.
0 -
0 -
One of the problems we now have is the public have gone from nowhere near scared enough i.e. i must go to that sterophonics concert, to too scared i.e. i cant let little johnny go to school in case they catch it.3
-
Its voting coalition changed, in 2019 the Tories did better with skilled working class C2s than upper middle class ABs for the first time ever.RochdalePioneers said:
As there isn't sufficient time to install the customs computers / support / physical checks / infrastructure before year end, I guess we're about to see what happens when France shuts their side of the border. "They won't / can't do that" has always been the refrain from hard-Brexit foamers, and yet they can and they have during this crisis.SouthamObserver said:
Neither side wants a deal enough to do one. We would all be much better off accepting that and getting on with preparing for the consequences.CarlottaVance said:
Whatever happened to the party of business? Or the party of the Union? Or the party of Conservatism?
It is skilled working class Leave voting C2s who are most supportive of hard Brexit and leaving the single market and ending free movement0 -
I am just popping in to say a heartfelt thank you to all those sending condolences etc on our family loss. Whatever our political differences people have been - and are - so kind.
It is something to hang onto during dark times.10 -
I also want to send condolences and virtual hugs to @dixiedean on his recent loss.2
-
There is not going to be any kind of meaningful trade agreement. What will do for Spain is the collapse of the tourist industry. Italy is where it is all really going to kick off. I do agree that the EU is going to be tested as an institution like never before.DavidL said:
At the moment I would predict a much worse outcome for the EU, mainly because of Germany's absolute opposition to QE or even the buying of government bonds by the ECB as shown by the current impasse. This means that the response to the crisis is going to be almost entirely fiscal rather than a combination of fiscal and monetary policy such as we will have here. Large scale fiscal injections are possible for countries like Germany who can borrow at negative interest rates but will be very difficult for countries like Italy and Spain with the result that there will be much greater unemployment and business collapse in the latter countries.SouthamObserver said:
It's going to be quite a thing to live through. But we've been promised that we'll be better off not extending the transition and clearly the government will have to deliver on that, so however bad it is here we can expect it to be much worse in the EU27.eek said:
Between Covid 19 and Brexit, the forthcoming recession is going to be a sight to behold.SouthamObserver said:
We have been promised a golden tomorrow. It's time to deliver.AlastairMeeks said:
There's a lot of truth in that. The EU has higher priorities and the self-radicalisation conveyor belt of Leavers has not been halted by Covid-19.SouthamObserver said:
Neither side wants a deal enough to do one. We would all be much better off accepting that and getting on with preparing for the consequences.CarlottaVance said:
This will, of course, do the UK no good whatsoever depressing exports and possibly making the trade agreement more problematic. The EU are going to face internal stresses and strains that will make 2008 look like a walk in the park. State aid is going to be another pressure point as France is already showing.
0 -
Given this is a betting site, always good to have a diversity of opinion to help improve your chances of winningkinabalu said:
Mmm.HYUFD said:
Interesting to have a few Trump supporters like you here, ensures all views are heardMrEd said:
Not really. I didn't say upfront we were paying, only when challenged. Kinablu asked for information so I answered.Theuniondivvie said:
Aren't you virtue signalling over your benevolence to your dogwalker?MrEd said:
No, I'm not. My wife and I were laid off. We took a conscious decision we would pay our dogwalker because she is stretched for cash and needs the income. Two of her clients whom we all know, who all have kept their jobs and WFH, and incomes remain unchanged and signal virtue at every opportunity didn't. The dogwalker is stressing out.kinabalu said:
Really? Or are you making shit up to support the softhead prejudice that one expects from a Trump fanboy?MrEd said:
Ps I have also found them the worst for not paying their cleaners, dog walkers etc during the crisis as wellMrEd said:
Funnily enough, from my experience, the biggest supporters of a draconian, as long as it takes lockdown have been middle class public sector professionals whose wages and pensions are not impacted currently by the crisisHYUFD said:
Either way the private sector working class are being hit hardest at the moment and the public sector middle class surviving best economically the impact of the lockdownkinabalu said:
Interesting how this same issue is presented in differing ways depending on political outlook. For the right - cossetted public sector vs exposed private sector. For the left - privileged middle class professionals vs the exploited working class.Burgessian said:
Unfortunately there is a conflict of interest in the population.DavidL said:
Very rare that I agree with Fraser Nelson these days but I think we are going to have to try some sort of regional controls here. Even in Scotland if you are not in a care home the risk of CV seems pretty minimal outside greater Glasgow. That might not always be the case but there are a lot of people isolated from family and friends, struggling with depression and the multiple side effects of that or in need of treatment for unrelated conditions who are being locked down and are at minimal risk. And there are some who want to go back to work too. People whose wages are not being paid by the State in the main.HYUFD said:
Those working for the public sector (like me) with a guaranteed income and pension are, relatively, content with the lockdown and have no problem with it being extended. Why should we? Safety first and all that. Scotland, of course, has a huge host of comfortably-off middle-class white collar public sector workers who dominate the political system.
My thoughts are with the poor blighters who are in the private sector, are self-employed, who run small businesses, and have mortgages to pay. This situation must seem horrific to them. No-one is clapping for them at 8pm on a Thursday. But I suspect their interests will simply be ignored by the priviligentsia.
Here is Owen Jones with the latter take -
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/12/boris-johnson-working-class-good-luck
Ps Grow up. Just because somebody has a point of view you disagree with doesn't make them a "Trump fanboy"
Can you say who you would prefer to win WH2020? Please show your workings.
On who would prefer to win the WH, Trump over Biden. I think Trump personally is an absolutely a*se as a human being. But his analysis on China has been right strategically and I think for the coming problems, it is better to have him than Biden.
Ps at the risk of being seen to virtue signal (again), I did say a few threads back that, even though I am a Conservative, I did think the closing of the mines in the 1980s was wrong as it destroyed the communities. Voting one way doesn't mean you have to agree with everything.
0 -
The German court stance is very interesting, it's basically challenging the primacy of Union law in Germany, saying that it's up to national parliaments and courts to adminster the treaties of the EU, pointedly saying that the EU has no legal constitution.DavidL said:
At the moment I would predict a much worse outcome for the EU, mainly because of Germany's absolute opposition to QE or even the buying of government bonds by the ECB as shown by the current impasse. This means that the response to the crisis is going to be almost entirely fiscal rather than a combination of fiscal and monetary policy such as we will have here. Large scale fiscal injections are possible for countries like Germany who can borrow at negative interest rates but will be very difficult for countries like Italy and Spain with the result that there will be much greater unemployment and business collapse in the latter countries.SouthamObserver said:
It's going to be quite a thing to live through. But we've been promised that we'll be better off not extending the transition and clearly the government will have to deliver on that, so however bad it is here we can expect it to be much worse in the EU27.eek said:
Between Covid 19 and Brexit, the forthcoming recession is going to be a sight to behold.SouthamObserver said:
We have been promised a golden tomorrow. It's time to deliver.AlastairMeeks said:
There's a lot of truth in that. The EU has higher priorities and the self-radicalisation conveyor belt of Leavers has not been halted by Covid-19.SouthamObserver said:
Neither side wants a deal enough to do one. We would all be much better off accepting that and getting on with preparing for the consequences.CarlottaVance said:
This will, of course, do the UK no good whatsoever depressing exports and possibly making the trade agreement more problematic. The EU are going to face internal stresses and strains that will make 2008 look like a walk in the park. State aid is going to be another pressure point as France is already showing.
It is certainly the most irritating view that the court has taken for Merkel and Co. It wil be interesting to see how the German government reacts, they can't very well dismiss all of the judges and replace them with a bunch of patsies, but at the same time they need the court to play ball because it basically means that the federal government needs to withdraw participation of the Bundesbank in the QE scheme, that is a wholly reserved competence as well, which is why the court has ruled this way. There is no treaty law that governs QE and the ECJ are accused of making it all up.
If the Bundesbank withdraws cooperation it basically kills off the whole QE scheme as there isn't a major capitalised institution to take on the risk liability of owning all of the periphery debt. Honestly, I'm amazed as to just how stupid the EU has been in this crisis. The new Commission is much, much less politically astute than the last one. Junker would not have fallen for this bear trap.1 -
Brasil is likely to overtake us in terms of number of cases by about Tuesday and Russia is likely to overtaken Spain as the second largest number of cases about the same time. Both countries still have very low death figures on the official figures but a lot of pain to come.Barnesian said:0 -
There is no way it is ever going to happen. There is a UEFA rule against clubs moving to different national leagues. Rangers and Celtic are as stuck as Ajax, Feyernoord and PSV; or Porto, Sporting and Benfica.MaxPB said:
Not sure Celtic would like life in the relegation zone every year in the EPL or Rangers in League One.Theuniondivvie said:An extremely old and well polished chestnut. Surely The Rangers trophy record should preclude such a move?
https://twitter.com/beINSPORTS_EN/status/1261227320871981056?s=20
0 -
Our was/is very grateful. I know that most of her customers are less well off than us, and reading between the lines I suspect we may be the only ones paying her at the moment.IshmaelZ said:
Weirdly, I paid my cleaner for the first week of lockdown and got my head bitten off; "I can't possibly accept payment for work I haven't done." So I stopped.MrEd said:
Ps I have also found them the worst for not paying their cleaners, dog walkers etc during the crisis as wellMrEd said:
Funnily enough, from my experience, the biggest supporters of a draconian, as long as it takes lockdown have been middle class public sector professionals whose wages and pensions are not impacted currently by the crisisHYUFD said:
Either way the private sector working class are being hit hardest at the moment and the public sector middle class surviving best economically the impact of the lockdownkinabalu said:
Interesting how this same issue is presented in differing ways depending on political outlook. For the right - cossetted public sector vs exposed private sector. For the left - privileged middle class professionals vs the exploited working class.Burgessian said:
Unfortunately there is a conflict of interest in the population.DavidL said:
Very rare that I agree with Fraser Nelson these days but I think we are going to have to try some sort of regional controls here. Even in Scotland if you are not in a care home the risk of CV seems pretty minimal outside greater Glasgow. That might not always be the case but there are a lot of people isolated from family and friends, struggling with depression and the multiple side effects of that or in need of treatment for unrelated conditions who are being locked down and are at minimal risk. And there are some who want to go back to work too. People whose wages are not being paid by the State in the main.HYUFD said:
Those working for the public sector (like me) with a guaranteed income and pension are, relatively, content with the lockdown and have no problem with it being extended. Why should we? Safety first and all that. Scotland, of course, has a huge host of comfortably-off middle-class white collar public sector workers who dominate the political system.
My thoughts are with the poor blighters who are in the private sector, are self-employed, who run small businesses, and have mortgages to pay. This situation must seem horrific to them. No-one is clapping for them at 8pm on a Thursday. But I suspect their interests will simply be ignored by the priviligentsia.
Here is Owen Jones with the latter take -
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/12/boris-johnson-working-class-good-luck0 -
Johnson is now Galtieri. We have mucked everything up at home so let's claim our sovereignty from the foreigners.AlastairMeeks said:
The country has plenty of people who would prefer to eat grass rather than make compromises on their identity. Many of them are in government.FF43 said:
This bankrupt - in all senses - administration is only interested in pandering to its ideologue followers, it seems.CarlottaVance said:0 -
Why would the likes of Watford, Bournemouth, Southampton, Leicester etc possibly vote for this. At a stretch they could get 6 votes out of 20, they need 14. Straight to the Prem is therefore a non runner.Theuniondivvie said:An extremely old and well polished chestnut. Surely The Rangers trophy record should preclude such a move?
https://twitter.com/beINSPORTS_EN/status/1261227320871981056?s=20
Joining League 2 is possible, the football league would benefit massively from their brands, but the path to the prem is long and uncertain, even League 1 isnt trivial to get out as the likes of Man City, Sunderland, Leeds, Forest have found, and the Champ is a bit of a lottery with so many clubs on parachute payments making historic size of club less important than recently getting Prem money.
At least if they started in league 2 they would be used to the standard of opposition they would be playing.1 -
Oh yes, I didn't mean they would. Like Gustavus Adolphus in the Thirty Years War, they will fight to the bones of the last Finn.SouthamObserver said:
Luckily, those in government will not have to eat grass. They are wealthy and very well-connected. They will be fine whatever happens. Phew.AlastairMeeks said:
The country has plenty of people who would prefer to eat grass rather than make compromises on their identity. Many of them are in government.FF43 said:
This bankrupt - in all senses - administration is only interested in pandering to its ideologue followers, it seems.CarlottaVance said:0 -
It would give them a year to prepare for the trying to escape League 1 which I seriously doubt both teams would do at the first attempt.noneoftheabove said:
Why would the likes of Watford, Bournemouth, Southampton, Leicester etc possibly vote for this. At a stretch they could get 6 votes out of 20, they need 14. Straight to the Prem is therefore a non runner.Theuniondivvie said:An extremely old and well polished chestnut. Surely The Rangers trophy record should preclude such a move?
https://twitter.com/beINSPORTS_EN/status/1261227320871981056?s=20
Joining League 2 is possible, the football league would benefit massively from their brands, but the path to the prem is long and uncertain, even League 1 isnt trivial to get out as the likes of Man City, Sunderland, Leeds, Forest have found, and the Champ is a bit of a lottery with so many clubs on parachute payments making historic size of club less important than recently getting Prem money.
At least if they started in league 2 they would be used to the standard of opposition they would be playing.
As for getting into the Premiership I suspect that would take either team a minimum of 5 years.0 -
The Crimean clubs moved from the Ukrainian league to the Russian.SouthamObserver said:
There is no way it is ever going to happen. There is a UEFA rule against clubs moving to different national leagues. Rangers and Celtic are as stuck as Ajax, Feyernoord and PSV; or Porto, Sporting and Benfica.MaxPB said:
Not sure Celtic would like life in the relegation zone every year in the EPL or Rangers in League One.Theuniondivvie said:An extremely old and well polished chestnut. Surely The Rangers trophy record should preclude such a move?
https://twitter.com/beINSPORTS_EN/status/1261227320871981056?s=200 -
Mostly fair. I might say that the NUS is totally unrepresentative of the average student, while the teaching unions are often not very representative.Malmesbury said:
I would say that is uncharitable - what the teaching Unions say/do relates to the behaviour of the average teacher in about the same way that the NUS represents the views of the average student.Endillion said:
The other aspect to this is that a lot of teachers have an inbuilt loathing of Conservative governments, and are very unprepared to believe their assurances that their working environment is safe. A slightly less charitable view is that a lot of them tend to act - deliberately or otherwise - as a campaigning front for the Labour party.OllyT said:
Given that nurses, care workers, doctors, bus drivers, policemen, supermarket staff etc have been carrying on putting themselves at risk for 2 months now through the worst of this first wave, I wonder if the public are soon going to become resentful of teachers saying they refuse to go back to work until they decide they are safe.Burgessian said:
Unfortunately there is a conflict of interest in the population.DavidL said:
Very rare that I agree with Fraser Nelson these days but I think we are going to have to try some sort of regional controls here. Even in Scotland if you are not in a care home the risk of CV seems pretty minimal outside greater Glasgow. That might not always be the case but there are a lot of people isolated from family and friends, struggling with depression and the multiple side effects of that or in need of treatment for unrelated conditions who are being locked down and are at minimal risk. And there are some who want to go back to work too. People whose wages are not being paid by the State in the main.HYUFD said:
Those working for the public sector (like me) with a guaranteed income and pension are, relatively, content with the lockdown and have no problem with it being extended. Why should we? Safety first and all that. Scotland, of course, has a huge host of comfortably-off middle-class white collar public sector workers who dominate the political system.
My thoughts are with the poor blighters who are in the private sector, are self-employed, who run small businesses, and have mortgages to pay. This situation must seem horrific to them. No-one is clapping for them at 8pm on a Thursday. But I suspect their interests will simply be ignored by the priviligentsia.
I appreciate some teachers will have been carrying on and there are serious issues at stake but at times it comes across as though teachers believe they are somehow special compared to everyone else, thank goodness nurses and care workers didn't have the same attitude. Perhaps it's just the union bods that seem totally out of touch with what everyone else is going through.
In the various private and state schools I know of, everyone is working out what can be done and how. There are concerns, but the response to things is not so much RunRoundScreamIngOnFireWhileAngry as HowCanWeMakeThisWork.
Teachers attitudes seem to me often to be HowCanWeMakeThisWorkDespiteTheGovernment, which I'm broadly fine with in the short run as long as the emphasis doesn't shift too far towards the second half.0 -
The German Constitutional Court has always asserted its supremacy in interpreting German basic law, including where it thought that EU law conflicted with it. The difference this time is that up to now they have always found ever more convoluted ways of finding the 2 compatible. This time they haven't and it is indeed obvious that QE is not permitted under the existing treaties for the very good reason that Germany would not have signed up to monetary union if it was.MaxPB said:
The German court stance is very interesting, it's basically challenging the primacy of Union law in Germany, saying that it's up to national parliaments and courts to adminster the treaties of the EU, pointedly saying that the EU has no legal constitution.DavidL said:
At the moment I would predict a much worse outcome for the EU, mainly because of Germany's absolute opposition to QE or even the buying of government bonds by the ECB as shown by the current impasse. This means that the response to the crisis is going to be almost entirely fiscal rather than a combination of fiscal and monetary policy such as we will have here. Large scale fiscal injections are possible for countries like Germany who can borrow at negative interest rates but will be very difficult for countries like Italy and Spain with the result that there will be much greater unemployment and business collapse in the latter countries.SouthamObserver said:
It's going to be quite a thing to live through. But we've been promised that we'll be better off not extending the transition and clearly the government will have to deliver on that, so however bad it is here we can expect it to be much worse in the EU27.eek said:
Between Covid 19 and Brexit, the forthcoming recession is going to be a sight to behold.SouthamObserver said:
We have been promised a golden tomorrow. It's time to deliver.AlastairMeeks said:
There's a lot of truth in that. The EU has higher priorities and the self-radicalisation conveyor belt of Leavers has not been halted by Covid-19.SouthamObserver said:
Neither side wants a deal enough to do one. We would all be much better off accepting that and getting on with preparing for the consequences.CarlottaVance said:
This will, of course, do the UK no good whatsoever depressing exports and possibly making the trade agreement more problematic. The EU are going to face internal stresses and strains that will make 2008 look like a walk in the park. State aid is going to be another pressure point as France is already showing.
It is certainly the most irritating view that the court has taken for Merkel and Co. It wil be interesting to see how the German government reacts, they can't very well dismiss all of the judges and replace them with a bunch of patsies, but at the same time they need the court to play ball because it basically means that the federal government needs to withdraw participation of the Bundesbank in the QE scheme, that is a wholly reserved competence as well, which is why the court has ruled this way. There is no treaty law that governs QE and the ECJ are accused of making it all up.
If the Bundesbank withdraws cooperation it basically kills off the whole QE scheme as there isn't a major capitalised institution to take on the risk liability of owning all of the periphery debt. Honestly, I'm amazed as to just how stupid the EU has been in this crisis. The new Commission is much, much less politically astute than the last one. Junker would not have fallen for this bear trap.
It's a real headache for Merkel.0 -
Remind me again, where did JRM's firm move a significant of its operations to? And how many companies whose HQ's are in the Cayman Islands and such places are benefiting from the Government's largesse?AlastairMeeks said:
Oh yes, I didn't mean they would. Like Gustavus Adolphus in the Thirty Years War, they will fight to the bones of the last Finn.SouthamObserver said:
Luckily, those in government will not have to eat grass. They are wealthy and very well-connected. They will be fine whatever happens. Phew.AlastairMeeks said:
The country has plenty of people who would prefer to eat grass rather than make compromises on their identity. Many of them are in government.FF43 said:
This bankrupt - in all senses - administration is only interested in pandering to its ideologue followers, it seems.CarlottaVance said:0 -
Are you talking about the Guardian there?OldKingCole said:
Remind me again, where did JRM's firm move a significant of its operations to? And how many companies whose HQ's are in the Cayman Islands and such places are benefiting from the Government's largesse?AlastairMeeks said:
Oh yes, I didn't mean they would. Like Gustavus Adolphus in the Thirty Years War, they will fight to the bones of the last Finn.SouthamObserver said:
Luckily, those in government will not have to eat grass. They are wealthy and very well-connected. They will be fine whatever happens. Phew.AlastairMeeks said:
The country has plenty of people who would prefer to eat grass rather than make compromises on their identity. Many of them are in government.FF43 said:
This bankrupt - in all senses - administration is only interested in pandering to its ideologue followers, it seems.CarlottaVance said:
0 -
My teacher grandchildren are both working, although conditions are rather strange. It's definitely a case of 'HowCanWe' at the schools where they teach (one Primary, one Secondary). Both are becoming concerned at the position of children/young people who are either about to change schools or face critical exams.Endillion said:
Mostly fair. I might say that the NUS is totally unrepresentative of the average student, while the teaching unions are often not very representative.Malmesbury said:
I would say that is uncharitable - what the teaching Unions say/do relates to the behaviour of the average teacher in about the same way that the NUS represents the views of the average student.Endillion said:
The other aspect to this is that a lot of teachers have an inbuilt loathing of Conservative governments, and are very unprepared to believe their assurances that their working environment is safe. A slightly less charitable view is that a lot of them tend to act - deliberately or otherwise - as a campaigning front for the Labour party.OllyT said:
Given that nurses, care workers, doctors, bus drivers, policemen, supermarket staff etc have been carrying on putting themselves at risk for 2 months now through the worst of this first wave, I wonder if the public are soon going to become resentful of teachers saying they refuse to go back to work until they decide they are safe.Burgessian said:
Unfortunately there is a conflict of interest in the population.DavidL said:
Very rare that I agree with Fraser Nelson these days but I think we are going to have to try some sort of regional controls here. Even in Scotland if you are not in a care home the risk of CV seems pretty minimal outside greater Glasgow. That might not always be the case but there are a lot of people isolated from family and friends, struggling with depression and the multiple side effects of that or in need of treatment for unrelated conditions who are being locked down and are at minimal risk. And there are some who want to go back to work too. People whose wages are not being paid by the State in the main.HYUFD said:
Those working for the public sector (like me) with a guaranteed income and pension are, relatively, content with the lockdown and have no problem with it being extended. Why should we? Safety first and all that. Scotland, of course, has a huge host of comfortably-off middle-class white collar public sector workers who dominate the political system.
My thoughts are with the poor blighters who are in the private sector, are self-employed, who run small businesses, and have mortgages to pay. This situation must seem horrific to them. No-one is clapping for them at 8pm on a Thursday. But I suspect their interests will simply be ignored by the priviligentsia.
I appreciate some teachers will have been carrying on and there are serious issues at stake but at times it comes across as though teachers believe they are somehow special compared to everyone else, thank goodness nurses and care workers didn't have the same attitude. Perhaps it's just the union bods that seem totally out of touch with what everyone else is going through.
In the various private and state schools I know of, everyone is working out what can be done and how. There are concerns, but the response to things is not so much RunRoundScreamIngOnFireWhileAngry as HowCanWeMakeThisWork.
Teachers attitudes seem to me often to be HowCanWeMakeThisWorkDespiteTheGovernment, which I'm broadly fine with in the short run as long as the emphasis doesn't shift too far towards the second half.0 -
Mr. Dixiedean, my condolences on your loss.0
-
Among others!RobD said:
Are you talking about the Guardian there?OldKingCole said:
Remind me again, where did JRM's firm move a significant of its operations to? And how many companies whose HQ's are in the Cayman Islands and such places are benefiting from the Government's largesse?AlastairMeeks said:
Oh yes, I didn't mean they would. Like Gustavus Adolphus in the Thirty Years War, they will fight to the bones of the last Finn.SouthamObserver said:
Luckily, those in government will not have to eat grass. They are wealthy and very well-connected. They will be fine whatever happens. Phew.AlastairMeeks said:
The country has plenty of people who would prefer to eat grass rather than make compromises on their identity. Many of them are in government.FF43 said:
This bankrupt - in all senses - administration is only interested in pandering to its ideologue followers, it seems.CarlottaVance said:
0 -
Well, we'll see. I cleave to the idea that neither side would ultimately be so stupid as to not have a free trade agreement but I confess the evidence for such stupidity is mounting.SouthamObserver said:
There is not going to be any kind of meaningful trade agreement. What will do for Spain is the collapse of the tourist industry. Italy is where it is all really going to kick off. I do agree that the EU is going to be tested as an institution like never before.DavidL said:
At the moment I would predict a much worse outcome for the EU, mainly because of Germany's absolute opposition to QE or even the buying of government bonds by the ECB as shown by the current impasse. This means that the response to the crisis is going to be almost entirely fiscal rather than a combination of fiscal and monetary policy such as we will have here. Large scale fiscal injections are possible for countries like Germany who can borrow at negative interest rates but will be very difficult for countries like Italy and Spain with the result that there will be much greater unemployment and business collapse in the latter countries.SouthamObserver said:
It's going to be quite a thing to live through. But we've been promised that we'll be better off not extending the transition and clearly the government will have to deliver on that, so however bad it is here we can expect it to be much worse in the EU27.eek said:
Between Covid 19 and Brexit, the forthcoming recession is going to be a sight to behold.SouthamObserver said:
We have been promised a golden tomorrow. It's time to deliver.AlastairMeeks said:
There's a lot of truth in that. The EU has higher priorities and the self-radicalisation conveyor belt of Leavers has not been halted by Covid-19.SouthamObserver said:
Neither side wants a deal enough to do one. We would all be much better off accepting that and getting on with preparing for the consequences.CarlottaVance said:
This will, of course, do the UK no good whatsoever depressing exports and possibly making the trade agreement more problematic. The EU are going to face internal stresses and strains that will make 2008 look like a walk in the park. State aid is going to be another pressure point as France is already showing.0 -
That will suit Khan very nicely indeed. He would never have got away with doing that himself.CarlottaVance said:
0 -
Good. Now it needs to impose it rigourously.CarlottaVance said:0 -
Isn't it obvious that they are both just running scared of Dundee United returning to the Premiership next season?noneoftheabove said:
Why would the likes of Watford, Bournemouth, Southampton, Leicester etc possibly vote for this. At a stretch they could get 6 votes out of 20, they need 14. Straight to the Prem is therefore a non runner.Theuniondivvie said:An extremely old and well polished chestnut. Surely The Rangers trophy record should preclude such a move?
https://twitter.com/beINSPORTS_EN/status/1261227320871981056?s=20
Joining League 2 is possible, the football league would benefit massively from their brands, but the path to the prem is long and uncertain, even League 1 isnt trivial to get out as the likes of Man City, Sunderland, Leeds, Forest have found, and the Champ is a bit of a lottery with so many clubs on parachute payments making historic size of club less important than recently getting Prem money.
At least if they started in league 2 they would be used to the standard of opposition they would be playing.0 -
I see coronavirus has not succeeded in putting things in perspective for some.AlastairMeeks said:
The country has plenty of people who would prefer to eat grass rather than make compromises on their identity. Many of them are in government.FF43 said:
This bankrupt - in all senses - administration is only interested in pandering to its ideologue followers, it seems.CarlottaVance said:0 -
Question is, are these the groups that both Banks and Cummings separately identified as voting for Brexit for non-Brexit reasons? It is no good screwing them over and then telling them it is what they voted for, even if it is true.HYUFD said:
Its voting coalition changed, in 2019 the Tories did better with skilled working class C2s than upper middle class ABs for the first time ever.RochdalePioneers said:
As there isn't sufficient time to install the customs computers / support / physical checks / infrastructure before year end, I guess we're about to see what happens when France shuts their side of the border. "They won't / can't do that" has always been the refrain from hard-Brexit foamers, and yet they can and they have during this crisis.SouthamObserver said:
Neither side wants a deal enough to do one. We would all be much better off accepting that and getting on with preparing for the consequences.CarlottaVance said:
Whatever happened to the party of business? Or the party of the Union? Or the party of Conservatism?
It is skilled working class Leave voting C2s who are most supportive of hard Brexit and leaving the single market and ending free movement0 -
Nobody said will.Peter_the_Punter said:
About as smart as those who believed a Brexit deal will be the 'easiest thing in human history'.Philip_Thompson said:
I wonder how smart all the Remainers who voted down May's soft Brexit deal are feeling now?CarlottaVance said:
Changing words in quotes, let alone taking them out of context, changes the quotes meaning. Worth remembering the old quote "nothing someone says before the word 'but' really counts".0 -
I agree with that. You stick around. But I cannot understand how somebody of intelligence can be sanguine about another 4 years of this malevolent, vacuous, hate-monging troll in the White House.MrEd said:
Given this is a betting site, always good to have a diversity of opinion to help improve your chances of winningkinabalu said:
Mmm.HYUFD said:
Interesting to have a few Trump supporters like you here, ensures all views are heardMrEd said:
Not really. I didn't say upfront we were paying, only when challenged. Kinablu asked for information so I answered.Theuniondivvie said:
Aren't you virtue signalling over your benevolence to your dogwalker?MrEd said:
No, I'm not. My wife and I were laid off. We took a conscious decision we would pay our dogwalker because she is stretched for cash and needs the income. Two of her clients whom we all know, who all have kept their jobs and WFH, and incomes remain unchanged and signal virtue at every opportunity didn't. The dogwalker is stressing out.kinabalu said:
Really? Or are you making shit up to support the softhead prejudice that one expects from a Trump fanboy?MrEd said:
Ps I have also found them the worst for not paying their cleaners, dog walkers etc during the crisis as wellMrEd said:
Funnily enough, from my experience, the biggest supporters of a draconian, as long as it takes lockdown have been middle class public sector professionals whose wages and pensions are not impacted currently by the crisisHYUFD said:
Either way the private sector working class are being hit hardest at the moment and the public sector middle class surviving best economically the impact of the lockdownkinabalu said:
Interesting how this same issue is presented in differing ways depending on political outlook. For the right - cossetted public sector vs exposed private sector. For the left - privileged middle class professionals vs the exploited working class.Burgessian said:
Unfortunately there is a conflict of interest in the population.DavidL said:
Very rare that I agree with Fraser Nelson these days but I think we are going to have to try some sort of regional controls here. Even in Scotland if you are not in a care home the risk of CV seems pretty minimal outside greater Glasgow. That might not always be the case but there are a lot of people isolated from family and friends, struggling with depression and the multiple side effects of that or in need of treatment for unrelated conditions who are being locked down and are at minimal risk. And there are some who want to go back to work too. People whose wages are not being paid by the State in the main.HYUFD said:
Those working for the public sector (like me) with a guaranteed income and pension are, relatively, content with the lockdown and have no problem with it being extended. Why should we? Safety first and all that. Scotland, of course, has a huge host of comfortably-off middle-class white collar public sector workers who dominate the political system.
My thoughts are with the poor blighters who are in the private sector, are self-employed, who run small businesses, and have mortgages to pay. This situation must seem horrific to them. No-one is clapping for them at 8pm on a Thursday. But I suspect their interests will simply be ignored by the priviligentsia.
Here is Owen Jones with the latter take -
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/12/boris-johnson-working-class-good-luck
Ps Grow up. Just because somebody has a point of view you disagree with doesn't make them a "Trump fanboy"
Can you say who you would prefer to win WH2020? Please show your workings.
On who would prefer to win the WH, Trump over Biden. I think Trump personally is an absolutely a*se as a human being. But his analysis on China has been right strategically and I think for the coming problems, it is better to have him than Biden.
Ps at the risk of being seen to virtue signal (again), I did say a few threads back that, even though I am a Conservative, I did think the closing of the mines in the 1980s was wrong as it destroyed the communities. Voting one way doesn't mean you have to agree with everything.
I think the clue to you, as so often, is in language. You use the word "arse" to describe him. He's an arse as a person. A bit of an arse. A total arse. Whatever. This is a classic tell. I hear it a lot from people about Trump - always from those who do not see him as the global menace he palpably is. "He's an arse" is invariably followed with a "but" and then comes the apologia.
Well, there is no but, because he is NOT an "arse" - as a person or otherwise. What he is is the malevolent, vacuous, hate-monging troll in the White House. But not, IMO, for much longer.0 -
Listening to Talk Radio this morning Mike Graham asked a tory MP about rumours a group of his colleagues want Johnson gone.
cant see anything in the papers, but interesting nevertheless.0 -
No. HTH.DavidL said:
Isn't it obvious that they are both just running scared of Dundee United returning to the Premiership next season?noneoftheabove said:
Why would the likes of Watford, Bournemouth, Southampton, Leicester etc possibly vote for this. At a stretch they could get 6 votes out of 20, they need 14. Straight to the Prem is therefore a non runner.Theuniondivvie said:An extremely old and well polished chestnut. Surely The Rangers trophy record should preclude such a move?
https://twitter.com/beINSPORTS_EN/status/1261227320871981056?s=20
Joining League 2 is possible, the football league would benefit massively from their brands, but the path to the prem is long and uncertain, even League 1 isnt trivial to get out as the likes of Man City, Sunderland, Leeds, Forest have found, and the Champ is a bit of a lottery with so many clubs on parachute payments making historic size of club less important than recently getting Prem money.
At least if they started in league 2 they would be used to the standard of opposition they would be playing.0 -
That agrees with what I have seen - I have not heard of a single instance of FoldArmsAndSulkInACorner.OldKingCole said:
My teacher grandchildren are both working, although conditions are rather strange. It's definitely a case of 'HowCanWe' at the schools where they teach (one Primary, one Secondary). Both are becoming concerned at the position of children/young people who are either about to change schools or face critical exams.Endillion said:
Mostly fair. I might say that the NUS is totally unrepresentative of the average student, while the teaching unions are often not very representative.Malmesbury said:
I would say that is uncharitable - what the teaching Unions say/do relates to the behaviour of the average teacher in about the same way that the NUS represents the views of the average student.Endillion said:
The other aspect to this is that a lot of teachers have an inbuilt loathing of Conservative governments, and are very unprepared to believe their assurances that their working environment is safe. A slightly less charitable view is that a lot of them tend to act - deliberately or otherwise - as a campaigning front for the Labour party.OllyT said:
Given that nurses, care workers, doctors, bus drivers, policemen, supermarket staff etc have been carrying on putting themselves at risk for 2 months now through the worst of this first wave, I wonder if the public are soon going to become resentful of teachers saying they refuse to go back to work until they decide they are safe.Burgessian said:
Unfortunately there is a conflict of interest in the population.DavidL said:
Very rare that I agree with Fraser Nelson these days but I think we are going to have to try some sort of regional controls here. Even in Scotland if you are not in a care home the risk of CV seems pretty minimal outside greater Glasgow. That might not always be the case but there are a lot of people isolated from family and friends, struggling with depression and the multiple side effects of that or in need of treatment for unrelated conditions who are being locked down and are at minimal risk. And there are some who want to go back to work too. People whose wages are not being paid by the State in the main.HYUFD said:
Those working for the public sector (like me) with a guaranteed income and pension are, relatively, content with the lockdown and have no problem with it being extended. Why should we? Safety first and all that. Scotland, of course, has a huge host of comfortably-off middle-class white collar public sector workers who dominate the political system.
My thoughts are with the poor blighters who are in the private sector, are self-employed, who run small businesses, and have mortgages to pay. This situation must seem horrific to them. No-one is clapping for them at 8pm on a Thursday. But I suspect their interests will simply be ignored by the priviligentsia.
I appreciate some teachers will have been carrying on and there are serious issues at stake but at times it comes across as though teachers believe they are somehow special compared to everyone else, thank goodness nurses and care workers didn't have the same attitude. Perhaps it's just the union bods that seem totally out of touch with what everyone else is going through.
In the various private and state schools I know of, everyone is working out what can be done and how. There are concerns, but the response to things is not so much RunRoundScreamIngOnFireWhileAngry as HowCanWeMakeThisWork.
Teachers attitudes seem to me often to be HowCanWeMakeThisWorkDespiteTheGovernment, which I'm broadly fine with in the short run as long as the emphasis doesn't shift too far towards the second half.
Probably because most actual teachers think that behaving like a 5 year old on a bad day is not quite the thing.0 -
I thought we were supposed to drive to work instead of use public transport!CarlottaVance said:1 -
It's a given that a deal in December, if any, won't amount to anything much. The UK government doesn't have the ambition and the EU doesn't have the interest and neither party has the time. Eventually - perhaps many years and much wasting of energy later - a deal will be sorted out, I am fairly sure. It will be a rule taking relationship on the EU's terms.DavidL said:
Well, we'll see. I cleave to the idea that neither side would ultimately be so stupid as to not have a free trade agreement but I confess the evidence for such stupidity is mounting.SouthamObserver said:
There is not going to be any kind of meaningful trade agreement. What will do for Spain is the collapse of the tourist industry. Italy is where it is all really going to kick off. I do agree that the EU is going to be tested as an institution like never before.DavidL said:
At the moment I would predict a much worse outcome for the EU, mainly because of Germany's absolute opposition to QE or even the buying of government bonds by the ECB as shown by the current impasse. This means that the response to the crisis is going to be almost entirely fiscal rather than a combination of fiscal and monetary policy such as we will have here. Large scale fiscal injections are possible for countries like Germany who can borrow at negative interest rates but will be very difficult for countries like Italy and Spain with the result that there will be much greater unemployment and business collapse in the latter countries.SouthamObserver said:
It's going to be quite a thing to live through. But we've been promised that we'll be better off not extending the transition and clearly the government will have to deliver on that, so however bad it is here we can expect it to be much worse in the EU27.eek said:
Between Covid 19 and Brexit, the forthcoming recession is going to be a sight to behold.SouthamObserver said:
We have been promised a golden tomorrow. It's time to deliver.AlastairMeeks said:
There's a lot of truth in that. The EU has higher priorities and the self-radicalisation conveyor belt of Leavers has not been halted by Covid-19.SouthamObserver said:
Neither side wants a deal enough to do one. We would all be much better off accepting that and getting on with preparing for the consequences.CarlottaVance said:
This will, of course, do the UK no good whatsoever depressing exports and possibly making the trade agreement more problematic. The EU are going to face internal stresses and strains that will make 2008 look like a walk in the park. State aid is going to be another pressure point as France is already showing.
What is particularly stupid is this tinpot government of ours fetishising No Deal as a diversion from troubles at home.0 -
All Republican candidates are demonised and then, in later years, when it suits the Democrats, they then get lauded as "principled" and the "right" sort of Republican. Happened with Reagan, GW Bush and Romney, and even McCain.kinabalu said:
I agree with that. You stick around. But I cannot understand how somebody of intelligence can be sanguine about another 4 years of this malevolent, vacuous, hate-monging troll in the White House.MrEd said:
Given this is a betting site, always good to have a diversity of opinion to help improve your chances of winningkinabalu said:
Mmm.HYUFD said:
Interesting to have a few Trump supporters like you here, ensures all views are heardMrEd said:
Not really. I didn't say upfront we were paying, only when challenged. Kinablu asked for information so I answered.Theuniondivvie said:
Aren't you virtue signalling over your benevolence to your dogwalker?MrEd said:
No, I'm not. My wife and I were laid off. We took a conscious decision we would pay our dogwalker because she is stretched for cash and needs the income. Two of her clients whom we all know, who all have kept their jobs and WFH, and incomes remain unchanged and signal virtue at every opportunity didn't. The dogwalker is stressing out.kinabalu said:
Really? Or are you making shit up to support the softhead prejudice that one expects from a Trump fanboy?MrEd said:
Ps I have also found them the worst for not paying their cleaners, dog walkers etc during the crisis as wellMrEd said:
Funnily enough, from my experience, the biggest supporters of a draconian, as long as it takes lockdown have been middle class public sector professionals whose wages and pensions are not impacted currently by the crisisHYUFD said:
Either way the private sector working class are being hit hardest at the moment and the public sector middle class surviving best economically the impact of the lockdownkinabalu said:
Interesting how this same issue is presented in differing ways depending on political outlook. For the right - cossetted public sector vs exposed private sector. For the left - privileged middle class professionals vs the exploited working class.Burgessian said:
Unfortunately there is a conflict of interest in the population.DavidL said:
Very rare that I agree with Fraser Nelson these days but I think we are going to have to try some sort of regional controls here. Even in Scotland if you are not in a care home the risk of CV seems pretty minimal outside greater Glasgow. That might not always be the case but there are a lot of people isolated from family and friends, struggling with depression and the multiple side effects of that or in need of treatment for unrelated conditions who are being locked down and are at minimal risk. And there are some who want to go back to work too. People whose wages are not being paid by the State in the main.HYUFD said:
Those working for the public sector (like me) with a guaranteed income and pension are, relatively, content with the lockdown and have no problem with it being extended. Why should we? Safety first and all that. Scotland, of course, has a huge host of comfortably-off middle-class white collar public sector workers who dominate the political system.
My thoughts are with the poor blighters who are in the private sector, are self-employed, who run small businesses, and have mortgages to pay. This situation must seem horrific to them. No-one is clapping for them at 8pm on a Thursday. But I suspect their interests will simply be ignored by the priviligentsia.
Here is Owen Jones with the latter take -
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/12/boris-johnson-working-class-good-luck
Ps Grow up. Just because somebody has a point of view you disagree with doesn't make them a "Trump fanboy"
Can you say who you would prefer to win WH2020? Please show your workings.
On who would prefer to win the WH, Trump over Biden. I think Trump personally is an absolutely a*se as a human being. But his analysis on China has been right strategically and I think for the coming problems, it is better to have him than Biden.
Ps at the risk of being seen to virtue signal (again), I did say a few threads back that, even though I am a Conservative, I did think the closing of the mines in the 1980s was wrong as it destroyed the communities. Voting one way doesn't mean you have to agree with everything.
I think the clue to you, as so often, is in language. You use the word "arse" to describe him. He's an arse as a person. A bit of an arse. A total arse. Whatever. This is a classic tell. I hear it a lot from people about Trump - always from those who do not see him as the global menace he palpably is. "He's an arse" is invariably followed with a "but" and then comes the apologia.
Well, there is no but because he is NOT an "arse" - as a person or otherwise. What he is is the malevolent, vacuous, hate-monging troll in the White House. But not, IMO, for much longer.
Trump is one of a kind so I see less chance of it here. But I would disagree he has made things more dangerous and others are more to blame. Even Condolezza Rice said the biggest mistake was to let China into the WTO.0 -
I've just had a quick look at this. It has apparently been accepted for publication.IanB2 said:Here is the Manchester paper.
It is based on analysis of reported data and not any new testing data.
They look at variations between local authority areas and find a negative correlation between reported infection rate and current transmission rate, and by extrapolating their data argue that this implies much more widespread asymptomatic infection.
As I said earlier, it would be a credible explanation for the apparent falling away of new infections in London, and it is hard to see any other.
Important to note however that the few antibody testing studies so far published aren’t finding widespread infection rates,
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/ijcp.13528
It presents an estimate of the percentage of the population infected (and therefore immune) based on a single regression line drawn through extremely scattered data. As IanB2 says, that estimate is much larger than the indications from antibody testing.
I can't see any confidence interval or any information by which the accuracy of the estimate can be judged. I'm surprised the reviewers didn't ask for that to be added. Peer review seems not to be a very stringent process these days.0 -
Or stay on furlough. Looks like that's the government's preference after all.noneoftheabove said:
I thought we were supposed to drive to work instead of use public transport!CarlottaVance said:0
This discussion has been closed.