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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » As we start another lockdown week a Marf cartoon, some site news and a big thank you to PBers
A big thank to Marf for the above drawing which I think is a great visual representation of the lockdown.
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First!
Great news about the fundraising.0 -
Second! Happy Star Wars day to everyone, May 4th be with you all.
Great news Mike, will donate today.1 -
That's inspired Marf.0
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Good start to the day; needed in these weird times.0
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(FPT)
True.Yokes said:
The concerns over Wuhan indeed Chinese labs in general working with notable pathogens appeared to have been well before the US government, who helped fund parts of the lab operations, sent their people over in 2018.Nigelb said:
I get that. My point was that given the tenor of the story, that detail was perhaps unlikely to be fabricated.Yokes said:
Their slant doesn't concern me its the start point to understand more and find additional sources about the issues with the bio security.Nigelb said:
It was in a WaPo story, not exactly slanted towards the Chinese:Yokes said:
I'd be interesting in understanding more about that Chinese request for help. Do you have a pointer to that published anywhere?Nigelb said:
The reports of concern about (one of) the Wuhan sites’ biosecurity included requests from the Chinese for help in improving it.Yokes said:
Remember this is not a case of showing your hand, its not how it works. We don't know what raw information Western agencies have or how they have interpreted it and its unlikely to come out unless they can protect sourcing and methodology. If they can, then they will release it but how do you show say intercepts of logs of a computer for example. That's your source blown. How do you show intercepts of telephone conversations and so on.FF43 said:
Yeah but if the baseline is that a naturally occurring virus being studied at the lab might have been released accidentally but probably wasn't, that may say more about the sources you quote and their "position of considerable knowledge" than the practices of the lab and those of Chinese authorities.Yokes said:
And there is no suggestion in the above that there is strong evidence of either.FF43 said:
It seems unlikely that the Wuhan lab would do anything so detrimental to China's interest as deliberately releasing the virus into the local population. Virologists seem certain that Covid-19 has the characteristics of a naturally occurring virus originating in bats. The Wuhan was doing normal virological research into these viruses.
Accidental release of the virus into the neighbourhoood is plausible given the proximity of the lab to the origin of the outbreak, but there doesn't appear to be any evidence for this.
What I'm trying to do is suggest how this may go forward, because its likely to become a bigger story and source of conflict.
Equally it doesn't take top secret intelligence to suggest that there was suppression at work. Not even the Chinese appeared to deny that they muzzled a doctor, who later died, that wanted greater attention to & warning of the severity of the situation. Also there are suggestions based on local reports that the death toll in Wuhan and wider Hubei was way way larger than the authorities stated. There are reports, on record, of concerns over the Wuhan site's bio security before this thing ever kicked off. There are stories that the EU has confirmed Chinese attempts at public disinformation in the West over SarsCoV2
None of those is intelligence agency sourced but add them up and the you'd be asking what the fuck were the Chinese at and why.
I will say this though, Western agencies try very hard to keep an eye on anything and anywhere that may be involved in dual-purpose activity. Its doubtful they'd not try to monitor the Wuhan facility and its doubtful they don't have some picture even if fragmented.
The details are unclear, as the US hasn’t published those cables,
One of the problems is that we’re nearly four years into a US administration almost as mendacious as the Chinese.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/14/state-department-cables-warned-safety-issues-wuhan-lab-studying-bat-coronaviruses/
... The Chinese researchers at WIV were receiving assistance from the Galveston National Laboratory at the University of Texas Medical Branch and other U.S. organizations, but the Chinese requested additional help. The cables argued that the United States should give the Wuhan lab further support, mainly because its research on bat coronaviruses was important but also dangerous.
As the cable noted, the U.S. visitors met with Shi Zhengli, the head of the research project, who had been publishing studies related to bat coronaviruses for many years. In November 2017, just before the U.S. officials’ visit, Shi’s team had published research showing that horseshoe bats they had collected from a cave in Yunnan province were very likely from the same bat population that spawned the SARS coronavirus in 2003....
There was concern over how Wuhan got through the accreditation process and that the Chinese labs working with the pathogens didn't have good history (some notable blunders handling SARS samples) . That wasn't governments though that was voices within the scientific community. In short it was a reputation that the labs were slack.
But this appears to have been a worldwide problem dating back to the first SARS outbreak. And note that, unlike others deadly pathogens such as smallpox, SARS, and as late as March this year, SARS CoV-2, were permitted to be handled in much lower biosecurity level labs than the one at Wuhan - BSL2 rather than BSL4.
Laboratory safety aspects of SARS at Biosafety Level 2.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15098644
Laboratory Biosafety Recommendations for SARS-CoV-2 and COVID-19
https://www.labconco.com/articles/laboratory-biosafety-recommendations-for-sars-co
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Good morning, everyone.
Nice cartoon
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Marf’s best work.0
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A very Rear Window vibe.0
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Kitty, doggy, birdie.... but no ratty.0
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Virtual F1: just checked, and the each way qualifier bet plus the points on Fittipaldi came off. He didn't get top 3 in the race, however. But, overall, that works out nicely.0
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Good to hear the site is secure - for now.
If that becomes in doubt - do another fund raise. We'll dip in our pockets again. It's only the same as going out for a meal we can't go out for.0 -
Right then, as you've all helped secure the site, you deserve a treat! So let's get heavy duty with the moth du jour this week. Hawk moths!
Moth du Jour: Lime Hawkmoth. One of the first to arrive each year, although nowhere is it common.
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Yeah but they're going to lose their tourism industry.Nigelb said:0 -
Just an unconnected island in the middle of nowhere Nige.Nigelb said:0 -
That's a great photo, Mr M!0
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I wonder what will please the Taiwanese more - how well they’ve done, or how much it’s going to piss off the Chinese that they’ve done so well.Nigelb said:0 -
PA News Agency has a breakdown of what different aspects of UK society could look like after the lockdown is eased:
Offices
According to the BBC, staggered shift times, less sharing of equipment and continued maximisation of home working are among a number of ideas listed as part of a draft government strategy to help businesses prepare for a return to work.Increased hygiene procedures and the installation of protective screens are also included in the plan.
Meanwhile, the Guardian says ministers are holding talks with technology firms over the creation of “health passports” which use “coronavirus testing and facial recognition” to prove which workers have had Covid-19.
Retail
Last month, the British Retail Consortium (BRC) published guidance for measures that retail stores could introduce to help with the transition once restrictions are lifted. The recommended measures include limiting entry and exit points, using floor markings to outline social distancing and keeping changing rooms closed. The guidance also suggests installing cleaning stations with hand sanitiser and disinfectant wipes at the front of stores.
Public transport
Speaking on BBC One’s The Andrew Marr Show, Transport Secretary Grant Shapps said increased bus and train timetables will be implemented to help the public transport system cope with an influx in passengers while still adhering to social distancing recommendations. He also pointed to active transport methods such as cycling as a way for people to take more personal responsibility over their welfare. “The second thing to say is active travel, I think, is a very important part of this, by which I mean cycling, walking and so on,” he said.
Airports
Heathrow chief executive John Holland-Kaye has warned that the nation’s major international airports do not have enough space for social distancing to be a solution for safe travel post-lockdown.
Instead, Mr Holland-Kaye believes mandatory health checks for passengers, increased levels of hygiene and compulsory face masks would be more realistic options to enable airports to reopen and air travel to resume.0 -
Superb from Marf! Made my day0
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Thanks OKC. And if you'd ever wondered where Michael Fabricant gets his wigs....OldKingCole said:That's a great photo, Mr M!
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As Italians move today from a tight lockdown to basically the UK model, a Guardian long read on the Italian virus story:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/04/an-unfinished-odyssey-italians-coronavirus-europe0 -
havent been following that Mr M but my 4/1 table tennis tip last night went off at Evs and has just won.Morris_Dancer said:Virtual F1: just checked, and the each way qualifier bet plus the points on Fittipaldi came off. He didn't get top 3 in the race, however. But, overall, that works out nicely.
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I think @pulpstar was being sarcastic.Nigel_Foremain said:
Still, someone will be along shortly to tell us that preventing the virus from taking hold in the country was impossible and that shutting the borders wouldn't have made any difference.0 -
https://twitter.com/BBCLBicker/status/1257117764327575552?s=09ydoethur said:
I wonder what will please the Taiwanese more - how well they’ve done, or how much it’s going to piss off the Chinese that they’ve done so well.Nigelb said:
South Korea too. Indeed increasingly looking as if the Chinese have got it under control themselves.
There is an end to this.1 -
Rumbledtlg86 said:
I think @pulpstar was being sarcastic.Nigel_Foremain said:
Still, someone will be along shortly to tell us that preventing the virus from taking hold in the country was impossible and that shutting the borders wouldn't have made any difference.0 -
The big challenge ahead ...
https://twitter.com/edwardnh/status/1257077169488101376?s=210 -
That is why we need to be smart about this. There was a time and place to argue for a Swedish style lack of a lockdown but that hasn't happened, so given we have locked down we should do it properly. I'm more interested in seeing how places like South Korea, Taiwan, New Zealand etc are coping than the USA.SouthamObserver said:The big challenge ahead ...
https://twitter.com/edwardnh/status/1257077169488101376?s=21
From where we are now it makes sense to keep up with the lockdown for another couple of week IMO while rolling out the new tests until the cases are under control and then ease off the lockdown with a massive track and trace service.
If we can do that we can hopefully get back to normalish by June and have some summer. If we ease off now we will likely end up with this dragging on all year.3 -
LOL. I hope that later this week I'll have a picture of our blue-tit chicks. The hen bird has been sitting for at least a week. Won't be really good quality pictures as I can only take a picture of the TV and edit it, but they're not too bad.MarqueeMark said:
Thanks OKC. And if you'd ever wondered where Michael Fabricant gets his wigs....OldKingCole said:That's a great photo, Mr M!
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Imagine what they could have done if they had a PM as good as our Bloated Breathless Bullshitter. They could have been on -10,000 infections by now.Nigelb said:0 -
I worry about Raab, Shapps, Patel et al doing track and trace. They set themselves an arbitrary 100k tests a day target, missed it, lied about it, then couldn't maintain the lie.Philip_Thompson said:
That is why we need to be smart about this. There was a time and place to argue for a Swedish style lack of a lockdown but that hasn't happened, so given we have locked down we should do it properly. I'm more interested in seeing how places like South Korea, Taiwan, New Zealand etc are coping than the USA.SouthamObserver said:The big challenge ahead ...
https://twitter.com/edwardnh/status/1257077169488101376?s=21
From where we are now it makes sense to keep up with the lockdown for another couple of week IMO while rolling out the new tests until the cases are under control and then ease off the lockdown with a massive track and trace service.
If we can do that we can hopefully get back to normalish by June and have some summer. If we ease off now we will likely end up with this dragging on all year.
"You're all safe to go back to work, we've done half a million tests today" won't fill me credit when "we've done a test" equalled "we've posted out a test". They are incompetent fools.3 -
Extra red, white and blue tape ...
https://twitter.com/anandmenon1/status/1257207231390588930?s=210 -
I know people are desperate for an easy solution to this, but sometimes there are no easy solutions.Philip_Thompson said:
From where we are now it makes sense to keep up with the lockdown for another couple of week IMO while rolling out the new tests until the cases are under control and then ease off the lockdown with a massive track and trace service.
If we can do that we can hopefully get back to normalish by June and have some summer. If we ease off now we will likely end up with this dragging on all year.
On any reasonable assessment, there are still at the very least 25,000 new cases a day in the UK. Tracing will help, but it can't come close to curbing that level of transmission.
We are not going to get back to anything like normal until either there is a vaccine or so many people have had it that it stops spreading.1 -
"Let’s see what you could have won..."Nigelb said:0 -
You should check out Exodus in the Bible. Pharaoh hardened his heart several times and look where it got him....ydoethur said:0 -
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Very pleased to hear it Mike.0
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If only there was a large supranational institution we could join to avoid such red tape.SouthamObserver said:Extra red, white and blue tape ...
https://twitter.com/anandmenon1/status/1257207231390588930?s=211 -
If only a large number of retired people hadn't blamed their woes on it so hadn't voted to leave said institution.rottenborough said:
If only there was a large supranational institution we could join to avoid such red tape.SouthamObserver said:Extra red, white and blue tape ...
https://twitter.com/anandmenon1/status/1257207231390588930?s=21
Mind you when the lockdown has finished those 50,000 new jobs will be welcomed.0 -
America's state-by-state approach should provide more interesting data about what works. As for us, we need more masks before we mandate them; we do not have the infrastructure for full track and trace or the wit for even rudimentary tracing (eg have you been to Cheltenham, Tesco or work in the last fortnight?); we have no useful idea how and where the virus spreads; checking new arrivals from hotspots is off the table.Chris said:
I know people are desperate for an easy solution to this, but sometimes there are no easy solutions.Philip_Thompson said:
From where we are now it makes sense to keep up with the lockdown for another couple of week IMO while rolling out the new tests until the cases are under control and then ease off the lockdown with a massive track and trace service.
If we can do that we can hopefully get back to normalish by June and have some summer. If we ease off now we will likely end up with this dragging on all year.
On any reasonable assessment, there are still at the very least 25,000 new cases a day in the UK. Tracing will help, but it can't come close to curbing that level of transmission.
We are not going to get back to anything like normal until either there is a vaccine or so many people have had it that it stops spreading.
So meanwhile we pray for drugs and a vaccine and that the eggheads who reckon it will die down irrespective of what a country does are correct.0 -
If we have full employment and there is a prior need for fruit-pickers etc. Plus we're going to have best part of a million more people in the [police, NHS etc.SouthamObserver said:Extra red, white and blue tape ...
https://twitter.com/anandmenon1/status/1257207231390588930?s=21
Where are all these people going to come from?0 -
The person in the bottom window needs to do a DSE Assessment. Very bad posture using their computer.
Actually, that's something that I'm sure many employers have quietly forgotten. It will bite them in the backside when a load of WFHers put in claims for RSI and back problems in 6 months time.0 -
I take that as Red, see?squareroot2 said:
You should check out Exodus in the Bible. Pharaoh hardened his heart several times and look where it got him....ydoethur said:0 -
FPT
FrancisUrquhart said:
Too much information.....
BORIS Johnson has told how he leapt on to his hospital bed wearing only his boxer shorts just two hours after leaving intensive care — to “clap like crazy” for the NHS.
Yes he really was close to death right enough0 -
Excellent news about the fundraising and website development.0
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Mistranslation. Reed Sea.ydoethur said:
I take that as Red, see?squareroot2 said:
You should check out Exodus in the Bible. Pharaoh hardened his heart several times and look where it got him....ydoethur said:
Edit: I think we should pass over the puns for one day.0 -
25k now maybe but that is falling. If we have another couple of weeks of lockdown plus continue having a hundred thousand tests per day then that number will come down. With contact tracing and testing it should be possible to contain that then.Chris said:
I know people are desperate for an easy solution to this, but sometimes there are no easy solutions.Philip_Thompson said:
From where we are now it makes sense to keep up with the lockdown for another couple of week IMO while rolling out the new tests until the cases are under control and then ease off the lockdown with a massive track and trace service.
If we can do that we can hopefully get back to normalish by June and have some summer. If we ease off now we will likely end up with this dragging on all year.
On any reasonable assessment, there are still at the very least 25,000 new cases a day in the UK. Tracing will help, but it can't come close to curbing that level of transmission.
We are not going to get back to anything like normal until either there is a vaccine or so many people have had it that it stops spreading.0 -
The Falkland Islands haven’t had many cases - perhaps we can learn from them ?SandyRentool said:
"Let’s see what you could have won..."Nigelb said:
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Slightly weird interview with the defence minister on R4 just now culminating in an assertion that BJ cares deeply about 'those sort of people' (the poor, the vulnerable etc). What with Matt JFK Hancock, we are truly blessed.Dura_Ace said:
Imagine what they could have done if they had a PM as good as our Bloated Breathless Bullshitter. They could have been on -10,000 infections by now.Nigelb said:0 -
? They've had more cases per capita than BritainTGOHF666 said:
The Falkland Islands haven’t had many cases - perhaps we can learn from them ?SandyRentool said:
"Let’s see what you could have won..."Nigelb said:0 -
I don't think shutting borders would have made much difference. We first found community transmission at the end of Feb I think. So would have needed to close borders at least two weeks earlier if not more... (Tricky when Boris was on holiday...)tlg86 said:
I think @pulpstar was being sarcastic.Nigel_Foremain said:
Still, someone will be along shortly to tell us that preventing the virus from taking hold in the country was impossible and that shutting the borders wouldn't have made any difference.
With hindsight, I think we definitely could have done more to prevent the virus from taking hold - but the answer was going to lockdown earlier.
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They should have done both.rkrkrk said:
I don't think shutting borders would have made much difference. We first found community transmission at the end of Feb I think. So would have needed to close borders at least two weeks earlier if not more... (Tricky when Boris was on holiday...)tlg86 said:
I think @pulpstar was being sarcastic.Nigel_Foremain said:
Still, someone will be along shortly to tell us that preventing the virus from taking hold in the country was impossible and that shutting the borders wouldn't have made any difference.
With hindsight, I think we definitely could have done more to prevent the virus from taking hold - but the answer was going to lockdown earlier.0 -
The idea of lockdown was to prevent the NHS being overwhelmed. The NHS wasn't overwhelmed.rkrkrk said:
I don't think shutting borders would have made much difference. We first found community transmission at the end of Feb I think. So would have needed to close borders at least two weeks earlier if not more... (Tricky when Boris was on holiday...)tlg86 said:
I think @pulpstar was being sarcastic.Nigel_Foremain said:
Still, someone will be along shortly to tell us that preventing the virus from taking hold in the country was impossible and that shutting the borders wouldn't have made any difference.
With hindsight, I think we definitely could have done more to prevent the virus from taking hold - but the answer was going to lockdown earlier.1 -
Good overview of vaccine prospects by Gates (his newsletter is definitely worth a free sub):DecrepiterJohnL said:
America's state-by-state approach should provide more interesting data about what works. As for us, we need more masks before we mandate them; we do not have the infrastructure for full track and trace or the wit for even rudimentary tracing (eg have you been to Cheltenham, Tesco or work in the last fortnight?); we have no useful idea how and where the virus spreads; checking new arrivals from hotspots is off the table.Chris said:
I know people are desperate for an easy solution to this, but sometimes there are no easy solutions.Philip_Thompson said:
From where we are now it makes sense to keep up with the lockdown for another couple of week IMO while rolling out the new tests until the cases are under control and then ease off the lockdown with a massive track and trace service.
If we can do that we can hopefully get back to normalish by June and have some summer. If we ease off now we will likely end up with this dragging on all year.
On any reasonable assessment, there are still at the very least 25,000 new cases a day in the UK. Tracing will help, but it can't come close to curbing that level of transmission.
We are not going to get back to anything like normal until either there is a vaccine or so many people have had it that it stops spreading.
So meanwhile we pray for drugs and a vaccine and that the eggheads who reckon it will die down irrespective of what a country does are correct.
https://www.gatesnotes.com/Health/What-you-need-to-know-about-the-COVID-19-vaccine?WT.mc_id=20200430100000_COVID-19-vaccine_BG-EM_&WT.tsrc=BGEM0 -
Who will pay for them though, is it coming out of the NHS £350 million a week.eek said:
If only a large number of retired people hadn't blamed their woes on it so hadn't voted to leave said institution.rottenborough said:
If only there was a large supranational institution we could join to avoid such red tape.SouthamObserver said:Extra red, white and blue tape ...
https://twitter.com/anandmenon1/status/1257207231390588930?s=21
Mind you when the lockdown has finished those 50,000 new jobs will be welcomed.0 -
I know Sandy, but it's not easy to make a good pun on Reed Sea.SandyRentool said:
Mistranslation. Reed Sea.ydoethur said:
I take that as Red, see?squareroot2 said:
You should check out Exodus in the Bible. Pharaoh hardened his heart several times and look where it got him....ydoethur said:
Edit: I think we should pass over the puns for one day.
Red Sea was much easier when all is Said and done.
However, we shall part there as I have work to do.
Have a good morning.0 -
Yes live in the middle of nowhere where majority are sheep, bit like New Zealand but smaller and even more remoteTGOHF666 said:
The Falkland Islands haven’t had many cases - perhaps we can learn from them ?SandyRentool said:
"Let’s see what you could have won..."Nigelb said:0 -
Is that a 100K real tests or a Hancock 100K.Philip_Thompson said:
25k now maybe but that is falling. If we have another couple of weeks of lockdown plus continue having a hundred thousand tests per day then that number will come down. With contact tracing and testing it should be possible to contain that then.Chris said:
I know people are desperate for an easy solution to this, but sometimes there are no easy solutions.Philip_Thompson said:
From where we are now it makes sense to keep up with the lockdown for another couple of week IMO while rolling out the new tests until the cases are under control and then ease off the lockdown with a massive track and trace service.
If we can do that we can hopefully get back to normalish by June and have some summer. If we ease off now we will likely end up with this dragging on all year.
On any reasonable assessment, there are still at the very least 25,000 new cases a day in the UK. Tracing will help, but it can't come close to curbing that level of transmission.
We are not going to get back to anything like normal until either there is a vaccine or so many people have had it that it stops spreading.0 -
Same thing.malcolmg said:
Is that a 100K real tests or a Hancock 100K.Philip_Thompson said:
25k now maybe but that is falling. If we have another couple of weeks of lockdown plus continue having a hundred thousand tests per day then that number will come down. With contact tracing and testing it should be possible to contain that then.Chris said:
I know people are desperate for an easy solution to this, but sometimes there are no easy solutions.Philip_Thompson said:
From where we are now it makes sense to keep up with the lockdown for another couple of week IMO while rolling out the new tests until the cases are under control and then ease off the lockdown with a massive track and trace service.
If we can do that we can hopefully get back to normalish by June and have some summer. If we ease off now we will likely end up with this dragging on all year.
On any reasonable assessment, there are still at the very least 25,000 new cases a day in the UK. Tracing will help, but it can't come close to curbing that level of transmission.
We are not going to get back to anything like normal until either there is a vaccine or so many people have had it that it stops spreading.
Some here are acting as if postcards have been counted not tests. 🙄0 -
Wales?malcolmg said:
Yes live in the middle of nowhere where majority are sheep, bit like New Zealand but smaller and even more remoteTGOHF666 said:
The Falkland Islands haven’t had many cases - perhaps we can learn from them ?SandyRentool said:
"Let’s see what you could have won..."Nigelb said:0 -
BA, Ryanair, Rolls Royce, Airbus, etc, there will be queues of them desperate to pick fruit , fill in forms, etc.OldKingCole said:
If we have full employment and there is a prior need for fruit-pickers etc. Plus we're going to have best part of a million more people in the [police, NHS etc.SouthamObserver said:Extra red, white and blue tape ...
https://twitter.com/anandmenon1/status/1257207231390588930?s=21
Where are all these people going to come from?0 -
Interesting story about how Tesco's disaster planning helped them deal with this crisis. All the mainstream supermarkets seem to be doing well tbh but anecdotal reports from friends who have visited Lidl say there's no social distancing there.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/may/03/how-tesco-doomsday-exercise-helped-it-cope-with-the-coronavirus0 -
People all had their own reasons for voting to leave Malc.malcolmg said:
BA, Ryanair, Rolls Royce, Airbus, etc, there will be queues of them desperate to pick fruit , fill in forms, etc.OldKingCole said:
If we have full employment and there is a prior need for fruit-pickers etc. Plus we're going to have best part of a million more people in the [police, NHS etc.SouthamObserver said:Extra red, white and blue tape ...
https://twitter.com/anandmenon1/status/1257207231390588930?s=21
Where are all these people going to come from?0 -
There is a widespread assumption that once the virus had reached Blighty, there was no point in checking new arrivals from overseas hotspots. That may be true but is not easy to square with some of the lockdown calls. Italy locked down earlier and more strictly than us, for instance, and has roughly the same number of deaths from roughly the same population.rkrkrk said:
I don't think shutting borders would have made much difference. We first found community transmission at the end of Feb I think. So would have needed to close borders at least two weeks earlier if not more... (Tricky when Boris was on holiday...)tlg86 said:
I think @pulpstar was being sarcastic.Nigel_Foremain said:
Still, someone will be along shortly to tell us that preventing the virus from taking hold in the country was impossible and that shutting the borders wouldn't have made any difference.
With hindsight, I think we definitely could have done more to prevent the virus from taking hold - but the answer was going to lockdown earlier.0 -
I doubt we’ll have full employment after this virus. Form filling will probably be better paid and certainly less strenuous than working in the fields.OldKingCole said:
If we have full employment and there is a prior need for fruit-pickers etc. Plus we're going to have best part of a million more people in the [police, NHS etc.SouthamObserver said:Extra red, white and blue tape ...
https://twitter.com/anandmenon1/status/1257207231390588930?s=21
Where are all these people going to come from?
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There might be a clue in the part that says "after"malcolmg said:FPT
FrancisUrquhart said:
Too much information.....
BORIS Johnson has told how he leapt on to his hospital bed wearing only his boxer shorts just two hours after leaving intensive care — to “clap like crazy” for the NHS.
Yes he really was close to death right enough
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So much for the party of business. The problem with becoming the party of fuck business instead let's listen to gammon and morons is that the gammon will be dead relatively soon and the morons aren't as stupid as you think.rottenborough said:
If only there was a large supranational institution we could join to avoid such red tape.SouthamObserver said:Extra red, white and blue tape ...
https://twitter.com/anandmenon1/status/1257207231390588930?s=21
Politics is cyclical. A future decade plus of the Tories being out of power may not be that far away is fuck business really is their policy.0 -
The worst death rate in the world is a mere bagatelle to you Tories.Philip_Thompson said:
The idea of lockdown was to prevent the NHS being overwhelmed. The NHS wasn't overwhelmed.rkrkrk said:
I don't think shutting borders would have made much difference. We first found community transmission at the end of Feb I think. So would have needed to close borders at least two weeks earlier if not more... (Tricky when Boris was on holiday...)tlg86 said:
I think @pulpstar was being sarcastic.Nigel_Foremain said:
Still, someone will be along shortly to tell us that preventing the virus from taking hold in the country was impossible and that shutting the borders wouldn't have made any difference.
With hindsight, I think we definitely could have done more to prevent the virus from taking hold - but the answer was going to lockdown earlier.0 -
If we had locked down 2-3 weeks earlier, we would be coming out of lockdown much earlier (certainly more than 2-3 weeks earlier).Philip_Thompson said:
The idea of lockdown was to prevent the NHS being overwhelmed. The NHS wasn't overwhelmed.rkrkrk said:
I don't think shutting borders would have made much difference. We first found community transmission at the end of Feb I think. So would have needed to close borders at least two weeks earlier if not more... (Tricky when Boris was on holiday...)tlg86 said:
I think @pulpstar was being sarcastic.Nigel_Foremain said:
Still, someone will be along shortly to tell us that preventing the virus from taking hold in the country was impossible and that shutting the borders wouldn't have made any difference.
With hindsight, I think we definitely could have done more to prevent the virus from taking hold - but the answer was going to lockdown earlier.
We would also have had far fewer cases = less pressure on PPE and supplies.
0 -
Put a surcharge on Werthers Originals to pay for it.eek said:
If only a large number of retired people hadn't blamed their woes on it so hadn't voted to leave said institution.rottenborough said:
If only there was a large supranational institution we could join to avoid such red tape.SouthamObserver said:Extra red, white and blue tape ...
https://twitter.com/anandmenon1/status/1257207231390588930?s=21
Mind you when the lockdown has finished those 50,000 new jobs will be welcomed.0 -
It was not even postcards, e-mails and texts.Philip_Thompson said:
Same thing.malcolmg said:
Is that a 100K real tests or a Hancock 100K.Philip_Thompson said:
25k now maybe but that is falling. If we have another couple of weeks of lockdown plus continue having a hundred thousand tests per day then that number will come down. With contact tracing and testing it should be possible to contain that then.Chris said:
I know people are desperate for an easy solution to this, but sometimes there are no easy solutions.Philip_Thompson said:
From where we are now it makes sense to keep up with the lockdown for another couple of week IMO while rolling out the new tests until the cases are under control and then ease off the lockdown with a massive track and trace service.
If we can do that we can hopefully get back to normalish by June and have some summer. If we ease off now we will likely end up with this dragging on all year.
On any reasonable assessment, there are still at the very least 25,000 new cases a day in the UK. Tracing will help, but it can't come close to curbing that level of transmission.
We are not going to get back to anything like normal until either there is a vaccine or so many people have had it that it stops spreading.
Some here are acting as if postcards have been counted not tests. 🙄0 -
It would be good to have a proper iPhone version. Never used to be a problem but now the script gets clipped on the LHS and replying is difficult as the script goes off the end of the posting box and it is hard to get to the end.0
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Doesn't sound that bad - they have a craft beer source now toomalcolmg said:
Yes live in the middle of nowhere where majority are sheep, bit like New Zealand but smaller and even more remoteTGOHF666 said:
The Falkland Islands haven’t had many cases - perhaps we can learn from them ?SandyRentool said:
"Let’s see what you could have won..."Nigelb said:
https://www.nationalgeographic.co.uk/2018/03/falkland-islands-worlds-most-remote-microbrewery1 -
When Italy locked down they had 9,000+ deaths, the UK had 8,000.DecrepiterJohnL said:
There is a widespread assumption that once the virus had reached Blighty, there was no point in checking new arrivals from overseas hotspots. That may be true but is not easy to square with some of the lockdown calls. Italy locked down earlier and more strictly than us, for instance, and has roughly the same number of deaths from roughly the same population.rkrkrk said:
I don't think shutting borders would have made much difference. We first found community transmission at the end of Feb I think. So would have needed to close borders at least two weeks earlier if not more... (Tricky when Boris was on holiday...)tlg86 said:
I think @pulpstar was being sarcastic.Nigel_Foremain said:
Still, someone will be along shortly to tell us that preventing the virus from taking hold in the country was impossible and that shutting the borders wouldn't have made any difference.
With hindsight, I think we definitely could have done more to prevent the virus from taking hold - but the answer was going to lockdown earlier.
So broadly similar stages of epidemic I think.0 -
Incontrovertibly true.rkrkrk said:
If we had locked down 2-3 weeks earlier, we would be coming out of lockdown much earlier (certainly more than 2-3 weeks earlier).Philip_Thompson said:
The idea of lockdown was to prevent the NHS being overwhelmed. The NHS wasn't overwhelmed.rkrkrk said:
I don't think shutting borders would have made much difference. We first found community transmission at the end of Feb I think. So would have needed to close borders at least two weeks earlier if not more... (Tricky when Boris was on holiday...)tlg86 said:
I think @pulpstar was being sarcastic.Nigel_Foremain said:
Still, someone will be along shortly to tell us that preventing the virus from taking hold in the country was impossible and that shutting the borders wouldn't have made any difference.
With hindsight, I think we definitely could have done more to prevent the virus from taking hold - but the answer was going to lockdown earlier.
We would also have had far fewer cases = less pressure on PPE and supplies.
Nothing to do with 'benefit of hindsight' either. Many voices were telling Boris to pull his finger out.
That the Liverpool vs Athletico Madrid (11th March), Bath Half (15th March) and Cheltenham festivals (16th-19th March) were allowed to go ahead is an absolute disgrace.
0 -
You're right it was none of them, it was tests.malcolmg said:
It was not even postcards, e-mails and texts.Philip_Thompson said:
Same thing.malcolmg said:
Is that a 100K real tests or a Hancock 100K.Philip_Thompson said:
25k now maybe but that is falling. If we have another couple of weeks of lockdown plus continue having a hundred thousand tests per day then that number will come down. With contact tracing and testing it should be possible to contain that then.Chris said:
I know people are desperate for an easy solution to this, but sometimes there are no easy solutions.Philip_Thompson said:
From where we are now it makes sense to keep up with the lockdown for another couple of week IMO while rolling out the new tests until the cases are under control and then ease off the lockdown with a massive track and trace service.
If we can do that we can hopefully get back to normalish by June and have some summer. If we ease off now we will likely end up with this dragging on all year.
On any reasonable assessment, there are still at the very least 25,000 new cases a day in the UK. Tracing will help, but it can't come close to curbing that level of transmission.
We are not going to get back to anything like normal until either there is a vaccine or so many people have had it that it stops spreading.
Some here are acting as if postcards have been counted not tests. 🙄0 -
Great news! Very stylish cartoon by @Marf. Excellent.0
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V good...ydoethur said:
I take that as Red, see?squareroot2 said:
You should check out Exodus in the Bible. Pharaoh hardened his heart several times and look where it got him....ydoethur said:0 -
The clue is in hospital bed you halfwit, he was only in ICU a few days, so between being fit going in and being able to bounce about bed in his boxers a few days later he was nearly dead. He needs to get a grip on his lies, tripping over himself with contradicting fibs. Lying chancer.Floater said:
There might be a clue in the part that says "after"malcolmg said:FPT
FrancisUrquhart said:
Too much information.....
BORIS Johnson has told how he leapt on to his hospital bed wearing only his boxer shorts just two hours after leaving intensive care — to “clap like crazy” for the NHS.
Yes he really was close to death right enough0 -
This is the reason I am no longer a member of the Conservative in Name Only Party. No deal Brexit is the ultimate statement of "fuck business". I will never vote Conservative while The Clown and his bunch of low-rent sycophants are running the party. I would happily "suffer" a moderate Labour government under SKS to get rid of this bunch of idiots and economic vandals.RochdalePioneers said:
So much for the party of business. The problem with becoming the party of fuck business instead let's listen to gammon and morons is that the gammon will be dead relatively soon and the morons aren't as stupid as you think.rottenborough said:
If only there was a large supranational institution we could join to avoid such red tape.SouthamObserver said:Extra red, white and blue tape ...
https://twitter.com/anandmenon1/status/1257207231390588930?s=21
Politics is cyclical. A future decade plus of the Tories being out of power may not be that far away is fuck business really is their policy.0 -
Hindsight is 20/20. If we had locked down earlier it may not have been necessary and we might not have been prepared for a lockdown with the furlough scheme etcrkrkrk said:
If we had locked down 2-3 weeks earlier, we would be coming out of lockdown much earlier (certainly more than 2-3 weeks earlier).Philip_Thompson said:
The idea of lockdown was to prevent the NHS being overwhelmed. The NHS wasn't overwhelmed.rkrkrk said:
I don't think shutting borders would have made much difference. We first found community transmission at the end of Feb I think. So would have needed to close borders at least two weeks earlier if not more... (Tricky when Boris was on holiday...)tlg86 said:
I think @pulpstar was being sarcastic.Nigel_Foremain said:
Still, someone will be along shortly to tell us that preventing the virus from taking hold in the country was impossible and that shutting the borders wouldn't have made any difference.
With hindsight, I think we definitely could have done more to prevent the virus from taking hold - but the answer was going to lockdown earlier.
We would also have had far fewer cases = less pressure on PPE and supplies.1 -
An inbred immunity?TGOHF666 said:
The Falkland Islands haven’t had many cases - perhaps we can learn from them ?SandyRentool said:
"Let’s see what you could have won..."Nigelb said:0 -
They will live to regret it as well and there will be more of the types of foreigners they wanted shot of into the bargain, going to be some seriously unhappy halfwits soon when the penny drops.Pulpstar said:
People all had their own reasons for voting to leave Malc.malcolmg said:
BA, Ryanair, Rolls Royce, Airbus, etc, there will be queues of them desperate to pick fruit , fill in forms, etc.OldKingCole said:
If we have full employment and there is a prior need for fruit-pickers etc. Plus we're going to have best part of a million more people in the [police, NHS etc.SouthamObserver said:Extra red, white and blue tape ...
https://twitter.com/anandmenon1/status/1257207231390588930?s=21
Where are all these people going to come from?0 -
Mysticrose said:rkrkrk said:
If we had locked down 2-3 weeks earlier, we would be coming out of lockdown much earlier (certainly more than 2-3 weeks earlier).Philip_Thompson said:
The idea of lockdown was to prevent the NHS being overwhelmed. The NHS wasn't overwhelmed.rkrkrk said:
I don't think shutting borders would have made much difference. We first found community transmission at the end of Feb I think. So would have needed to close borders at least two weeks earlier if not more... (Tricky when Boris was on holiday...)tlg86 said:
I think @pulpstar was being sarcastic.Nigel_Foremain said:
Still, someone will be along shortly to tell us that preventing the virus from taking hold in the country was impossible and that shutting the borders wouldn't have made any difference.
With hindsight, I think we definitely could have done more to prevent the virus from taking hold - but the answer was going to lockdown earlier.
We would also have had far fewer cases = less pressure on PPE and supplies.
That the Liverpool vs Athletico Madrid (11th March), Bath Half (15th March) and Cheltenham festivals (16th-19th March) were allowed to go ahead is an absolute disgrace.
Yes - those white males out enjoying themselves - how dare they.
0 -
There are winners and losers in every big change. The big Brexit winners are bureaucrats, hedge fund managers (not so coincidentally the main funders of all things Brexit and Tory), Putin, Trump and above all, Johnson himself.SouthamObserver said:Extra red, white and blue tape ...
https://twitter.com/anandmenon1/status/1257207231390588930?s=211 -
This kind of trope is immensely irritating but, worse, thoroughly disingenuous. You know as well as I do that everyone knew about the impending pandemic spread by the beginning of March. The reason this Government chose not to act is that for a critical fortnight an alternative meme prevailed: that of 'herd immunity.'Philip_Thompson said:
Hindsight is 20/20. If we had locked down earlier it may not have been necessary and we might not have been prepared for a lockdown with the furlough scheme etcrkrkrk said:
If we had locked down 2-3 weeks earlier, we would be coming out of lockdown much earlier (certainly more than 2-3 weeks earlier).Philip_Thompson said:
The idea of lockdown was to prevent the NHS being overwhelmed. The NHS wasn't overwhelmed.rkrkrk said:
I don't think shutting borders would have made much difference. We first found community transmission at the end of Feb I think. So would have needed to close borders at least two weeks earlier if not more... (Tricky when Boris was on holiday...)tlg86 said:
I think @pulpstar was being sarcastic.Nigel_Foremain said:
Still, someone will be along shortly to tell us that preventing the virus from taking hold in the country was impossible and that shutting the borders wouldn't have made any difference.
With hindsight, I think we definitely could have done more to prevent the virus from taking hold - but the answer was going to lockdown earlier.
We would also have had far fewer cases = less pressure on PPE and supplies.0 -
Can't be all bad then. I have had some really nice ones from Flavourly recently, good recommendation on your part.TGOHF666 said:
Doesn't sound that bad - they have a craft beer source now toomalcolmg said:
Yes live in the middle of nowhere where majority are sheep, bit like New Zealand but smaller and even more remoteTGOHF666 said:
The Falkland Islands haven’t had many cases - perhaps we can learn from them ?SandyRentool said:
"Let’s see what you could have won..."Nigelb said:
https://www.nationalgeographic.co.uk/2018/03/falkland-islands-worlds-most-remote-microbrewery1 -
Lawyers will do very well, too. Lots of legal compliance opportunities - and plenty of disputes.FF43 said:
There are winners and losers in every big change. The big Brexit winners are bureaucrats, hedge fund managers (not so coincidentally the main funders of all things Brexit and Tory), Putin, Trump and above all, Johnson himself.SouthamObserver said:Extra red, white and blue tape ...
https://twitter.com/anandmenon1/status/1257207231390588930?s=21
0 -
There are none as blind as those that will not see.Philip_Thompson said:
You're right it was none of them, it was tests.malcolmg said:
It was not even postcards, e-mails and texts.Philip_Thompson said:
Same thing.malcolmg said:
Is that a 100K real tests or a Hancock 100K.Philip_Thompson said:
25k now maybe but that is falling. If we have another couple of weeks of lockdown plus continue having a hundred thousand tests per day then that number will come down. With contact tracing and testing it should be possible to contain that then.Chris said:
I know people are desperate for an easy solution to this, but sometimes there are no easy solutions.Philip_Thompson said:
From where we are now it makes sense to keep up with the lockdown for another couple of week IMO while rolling out the new tests until the cases are under control and then ease off the lockdown with a massive track and trace service.
If we can do that we can hopefully get back to normalish by June and have some summer. If we ease off now we will likely end up with this dragging on all year.
On any reasonable assessment, there are still at the very least 25,000 new cases a day in the UK. Tracing will help, but it can't come close to curbing that level of transmission.
We are not going to get back to anything like normal until either there is a vaccine or so many people have had it that it stops spreading.
Some here are acting as if postcards have been counted not tests. 🙄0 -
We could abolish VED. Then there's a whole army of ready-trained form fillers waiting.OldKingCole said:
If we have full employment and there is a prior need for fruit-pickers etc. Plus we're going to have best part of a million more people in the [police, NHS etc.SouthamObserver said:Extra red, white and blue tape ...
https://twitter.com/anandmenon1/status/1257207231390588930?s=21
Where are all these people going to come from?0 -
-
-
It is not hindsight to be calling for the government to be called to account. The PM was asleep on the job, in a self-congratulatory coma following his "get Brexit done" "success".Philip_Thompson said:
Hindsight is 20/20. If we had locked down earlier it may not have been necessary and we might not have been prepared for a lockdown with the furlough scheme etcrkrkrk said:
If we had locked down 2-3 weeks earlier, we would be coming out of lockdown much earlier (certainly more than 2-3 weeks earlier).Philip_Thompson said:
The idea of lockdown was to prevent the NHS being overwhelmed. The NHS wasn't overwhelmed.rkrkrk said:
I don't think shutting borders would have made much difference. We first found community transmission at the end of Feb I think. So would have needed to close borders at least two weeks earlier if not more... (Tricky when Boris was on holiday...)tlg86 said:
I think @pulpstar was being sarcastic.Nigel_Foremain said:
Still, someone will be along shortly to tell us that preventing the virus from taking hold in the country was impossible and that shutting the borders wouldn't have made any difference.
With hindsight, I think we definitely could have done more to prevent the virus from taking hold - but the answer was going to lockdown earlier.
We would also have had far fewer cases = less pressure on PPE and supplies.
He will no doubt try to hide from his culpability for having possibly the highest death rate in Europe with his usual bullshit bluster and bonhomie, and using the PPE-less doctorsannurses as political human shields, but ultimately the public will wake up to how shit and lazy he really is.
3 -
-
Great strategy, let's just wait and see if we can be as bad as Italy, worked well.rkrkrk said:
When Italy locked down they had 9,000+ deaths, the UK had 8,000.DecrepiterJohnL said:
There is a widespread assumption that once the virus had reached Blighty, there was no point in checking new arrivals from overseas hotspots. That may be true but is not easy to square with some of the lockdown calls. Italy locked down earlier and more strictly than us, for instance, and has roughly the same number of deaths from roughly the same population.rkrkrk said:
I don't think shutting borders would have made much difference. We first found community transmission at the end of Feb I think. So would have needed to close borders at least two weeks earlier if not more... (Tricky when Boris was on holiday...)tlg86 said:
I think @pulpstar was being sarcastic.Nigel_Foremain said:
Still, someone will be along shortly to tell us that preventing the virus from taking hold in the country was impossible and that shutting the borders wouldn't have made any difference.
With hindsight, I think we definitely could have done more to prevent the virus from taking hold - but the answer was going to lockdown earlier.
So broadly similar stages of epidemic I think.0 -
Excellent - why Brewdog is a Goliath and the Black Isle Brewery is a minnow is not related to the beer quality. Shows the power of marketing. Enjoy.malcolmg said:
Can't be all bad then. I have had some really nice ones from Flavourly recently, good recommendation on your part.TGOHF666 said:
Doesn't sound that bad - they have a craft beer source now toomalcolmg said:
Yes live in the middle of nowhere where majority are sheep, bit like New Zealand but smaller and even more remoteTGOHF666 said:
The Falkland Islands haven’t had many cases - perhaps we can learn from them ?SandyRentool said:
"Let’s see what you could have won..."Nigelb said:
https://www.nationalgeographic.co.uk/2018/03/falkland-islands-worlds-most-remote-microbrewery0 -
You continue to behave like a complete prat. That fixture which involved 3000 fans travelling from a highly infected region is now seen as a particular spreader of the virus, which is one of the principle reasons that Liverpool is a hotspot for coronavirus deaths.TGOHF666 said:Mysticrose said:rkrkrk said:
If we had locked down 2-3 weeks earlier, we would be coming out of lockdown much earlier (certainly more than 2-3 weeks earlier).Philip_Thompson said:
The idea of lockdown was to prevent the NHS being overwhelmed. The NHS wasn't overwhelmed.rkrkrk said:
I don't think shutting borders would have made much difference. We first found community transmission at the end of Feb I think. So would have needed to close borders at least two weeks earlier if not more... (Tricky when Boris was on holiday...)tlg86 said:
I think @pulpstar was being sarcastic.Nigel_Foremain said:
Still, someone will be along shortly to tell us that preventing the virus from taking hold in the country was impossible and that shutting the borders wouldn't have made any difference.
With hindsight, I think we definitely could have done more to prevent the virus from taking hold - but the answer was going to lockdown earlier.
We would also have had far fewer cases = less pressure on PPE and supplies.
That the Liverpool vs Athletico Madrid (11th March), Bath Half (15th March) and Cheltenham festivals (16th-19th March) were allowed to go ahead is an absolute disgrace.
Yes - those white males out enjoying themselves - how dare they.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52420677
"It was wrong to play against Atlético, says Liverpool's public health director"
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/apr/02/wrong-to-play-liverpool-v-atletico-says-citys-public-health-director-matthew-ashton
0
This discussion has been closed.