politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » We could be heading for GE2015 outcome that’ll appear to be
Comments
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I think DVLA uses MID, which updates regularly.TwistedFireStopper said:Off topic, but I need to get a car road legal for tomorrow. It's MOTd, I've just insured it online, but need to tax it.
Does anyone know how long it takes for the DVLA and Insurers databases to get synched?
My son needs to use it tomorrow, but can't get to a post office to physically tax it.
http://stayinsured.askmid.com/about-askMID.html
You can check your own vehicle as well:
http://ownvehicle.askmid.com/
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Which, of course, it was.Next said:
The alternative, e.g. Brown announcing our gold sales in advance, was not exactly effective*.Ninoinoz said:
Hardly democratic though, is it?Charles said:The most powerful weapon that Cameron has is the in/out referendum. It's the classic strategy of putting someone in the room who has to refer back to the principals for final approval. You want to keep the principals out of the room for as long as possible - and only bring them in when there are the last few points to be closed out.
You can, of course, show the huge business he built through successive deals due to his negotiating 'skills'.
One of the reasons Cameron failed to win a majority in 2010 was that it was focused on the Big Society when Cameron hadn't run a voluntary group in his life, except the Conservative Party whose membership has collapsed under his leadership.
You are trying the same, unsuccessful, trick again. Even fewer people will be fooled this time.
* Unless the goal was getting the lowest price.
I can post the story behind this debacle if required.0 -
Can't answer the specific, Mr. Stopper, but I strongly suspect, it being a Sunday, your son is either not going to have a car to drive or to drive a car not displaying a current VEL. The latter need not be fatal, true the Filth might, in the 1 in 10,000 chance they see the car, notice the lack of VEL and decide to stop it and issue a fixed penalty notice but the DVLA are just interested in the money. So as long as the tax is paid, backdated to the beginning of May, before the commence enforcement proceedings they won't care.TwistedFireStopper said:Off topic, but I need to get a car road legal for tomorrow. It's MOTd, I've just insured it online, but need to tax it.
Does anyone know how long it takes for the DVLA and Insurers databases to get synched?
My son needs to use it tomorrow, but can't get to a post office to physically tax it.
So your lad can either take a chance or take a bus. How far does he have to go, can he get there on minor roads only (no cameras), can he, in the worst case, talk to the Filth and explain (if he can he should get away with the fixed penalty unless he meets some right git, especially at this time of the month).0 -
English Breakfast Tea is an under-powered Trabant of a tea. You'd be better off with Ribena.JamesM said:Many thanks so far to @Malcolmg @dyedwoolie @AJK @CarlottaVance and @Charles for your suggestions. Wow, it is far more complex than I could have imagined! I have had a few friends via social media recommend English Breakfast Tea too. Are there any introductory websites on tea? Finally, I try to keep off caffeine where I can, does a decaf tea really ruin the taste for limited benefit?
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I don't believe HYUFD is a Tory. I think he is complacent Labour?TwistedFireStopper said:
I'm public sector and a union member. I'm not a Labour voter.HYUFD said:dyedwoolie Under FPTP the public sector will vote en masse for Labour, especially now the LDs are in Coalition with the Tories. Under PR, a few more public sector workers would vote Green as they do for the Euros, but most would never vote Tory or UKIP
Under this government, I'm facing redundancy, pension cuts and 1% payrises. Why would the public sector vote Tory?
From your tone, Tories clearly despise us, you're virtually giving us no option but to go to Labour, even if it'll only be more of the same from them.
I see no reason why large parts of the public sector shouldn't vote Tory (and I believe that large percentages do).
There will be a natural tendency among many to vote for a party perceived to be more likely to improve ones own wages etc (ie Labour), However, a belief in sensible macro economic policy, fiscal responsibility, a pragmatic foreign policy, and a focus on equality of opportunity not equality of outcome should be as appealing to many in the public sector as it is to those in the private sector.0 -
City 1-00
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The clients I negotiate for have ongoing relationships with their counterparties. To get agreement you need both sides to be happy.another_richard said:
There speaks the voice of surrender.Charles said:
Would love to negotiate against you! Anything you want to sell?another_richard said:
Bollox. Those who negotiate from a position of strength aren't afraid to announce what they're going to negotiate because they know they're going to win.
Cameron can't deliver anything, that's the reason he wont announce what he's going to renegotiate.
Contrast that with Thatcher who did announce beforehand and achieved things.
All Cameron is planning is the facade of renegotiation after which he will claim 'victory' even if he's given away even more powers.
Cameron deals in facades - the facade of EU renegotiation, the facade of 'cast iron guarantees' and fake flounces, the facade of austerity, the facade of "paying down Britain's debts", the facade of 'economic rebalancing', the facade of immigration control.
He's not alone in this, its a mentality prevalent throughout the political establishment.
And its why the people planning to vote UKIP despise it.
You need to prepare the ground for a negotiation first. That's what they seem to be doing behind the scenes. There's no point in taking some grand position if you can't get any support for it.
You should also remember that a good negotiation is not about "winning" or "losing". It's about achieving a mutually acceptable outcome for both sides.
While you're seeking your 'mutually acceptable outcome' the other side are seeking to win.
When was the last time you negotiated a complex deal?
My most recent was selling one of a client's businesses for just over $500m. We got an extremely good deal, both on value and contract.0 -
How much experience do you have of negotiation, another_richard?another_richard said:
Charles also doesn't see the contradiction in:HurstLlama said:
Mr. Charles, you don't see anything contradictory between those two statements?
1) Claiming that Cameron announcing demands beforehand is bad negotiation
2) Claiming that Cameron saying beforehand that he will support remaining in the EU under any circumstances is good negotiation
The obvious conclusion is the right one - namely that the supposed future EU renegotiation is nothing but another example of Cameron's PR spivery0 -
I don't know about that. The stuff big Vera knocks out in the morning at the local transport cafe is probably capable of reviving the dead - you can damn near stand a spoon up in it and contains enough tannin to unblock a sewer. That is English Breakfast Tea at its best (mind you if you ask her very, very nicely Vera will put condensed milk in it, then, with extra sugar, its just like the old Compo tea).anotherDave said:
English Breakfast Tea is an under-powered Trabant of a tea. You'd be better off with Ribena.JamesM said:Many thanks so far to @Malcolmg @dyedwoolie @AJK @CarlottaVance and @Charles for your suggestions. Wow, it is far more complex than I could have imagined! I have had a few friends via social media recommend English Breakfast Tea too. Are there any introductory websites on tea? Finally, I try to keep off caffeine where I can, does a decaf tea really ruin the taste for limited benefit?
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Why's it not democratic?Ninoinoz said:
Hardly democratic though, is it?Charles said:The most powerful weapon that Cameron has is the in/out referendum. It's the classic strategy of putting someone in the room who has to refer back to the principals for final approval. You want to keep the principals out of the room for as long as possible - and only bring them in when there are the last few points to be closed out.
You can, of course, show the huge business he built through successive deals due to his negotiating 'skills'.
One of the reasons Cameron failed to win a majority in 2010 was that it was focused on the Big Society when Cameron hadn't run a voluntary group in his life, except the Conservative Party whose membership has collapsed under his leadership.
You are trying the same, unsuccessful, trick again. Even fewer people will be fooled this time.
The PM is our representative. He's going to negotiate the best deal he can and then put it to the people to vote Yea or Nay. How much more democratic can you get?0 -
Liverpool 0 Newcastle United 1MikeSmithson said:City 1-0
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The £400 is related to the CAP.anotherDave said:
I've always thought UKIP's fuel policy was a good "better off with UKIP" offer. I'd never considered food prices, but £400 does look like a powerful 'vote UKIP/leave the EU' argument!Next said:
1. Without the EU, food bills in every UK household would be £400 cheaper.anotherDave said:"UKIP today reveals two new posters exposing the added cost of living that EU membership brings to people’s every day lives."
http://www.ukip.org/new_ukip_posters_reveal_added_eu_cost_of_living
2. Without the EU, every UK fuel bill would be £112 cheaper.
If true, that's quite a powerful message.
The UK would then need to decide what it wants to do with its agricultural industry. One option is no subsidies (and hence the £400 saving) but the consequence would probably be increased mechanisation and consolidation into gigantic agribusinesses.
Not saying if this is a good or bad thing, but UKIP needs to consider the consequences.0 -
That is possible.Charles said:
I agree. I don't know why Mr Nabavi's usual judgement seems to have deserted him.MrsB said:Look, Ed might not be my first choice of PM, but an Ed / Nigel comparison? Really? Farage couldn't run a district council, never mind a country.
Admittedly he did post on Saturday night, so perhaps we should put it down to too much fine claret?
However, I do think that Ed will be appalling, probably even worse than Brown, who at least was paralysed by doubt, and was largely contained by Mandelson. Who is going to contain the lunacies of Ed?
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Most over-70s in Britain still feel uncomfortable about homosexuality, the Ukip leader, Nigel Farage, has said.
The politician made the claim as he defended Roger Helmer, the Ukip byelection candidate in Newark
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/may/11/nigel-farage-defends-ukip-candidate-roger-helmer-previous-anti-gay-remarks
But not strip bars.......0 -
One would hope the market and the desire for reelection.Richard_Nabavi said:
That is possible.Charles said:
I agree. I don't know why Mr Nabavi's usual judgement seems to have deserted him.MrsB said:Look, Ed might not be my first choice of PM, but an Ed / Nigel comparison? Really? Farage couldn't run a district council, never mind a country.
Admittedly he did post on Saturday night, so perhaps we should put it down to too much fine claret?
However, I do think that Ed will be appalling, probably even worse than Brown, who at least was paralysed by doubt, and was largely contained by Mandelson. Who is going to contain the lunacies of Ed?
My fear that Farage seems himself as an insurgent and so would regard something as trivial as the pound collapsing or public opinion swinging against him as some establishment plot. Crazy, of course, but there you go.0 -
On topic: I've never understood why Mike and others assume that AV would benefit the Tories.
More to the point, however, it wasn't exactly embraced by UKIP supporters in the referendum, was it? If anything, the areas where UKIP do well were particularly strongly opposed to it.0 -
And how much has Cameron?Charles said:
How much experience do you have of negotiation, another_richard?another_richard said:
Charles also doesn't see the contradiction in:HurstLlama said:
Mr. Charles, you don't see anything contradictory between those two statements?
1) Claiming that Cameron announcing demands beforehand is bad negotiation
2) Claiming that Cameron saying beforehand that he will support remaining in the EU under any circumstances is good negotiation
The obvious conclusion is the right one - namely that the supposed future EU renegotiation is nothing but another example of Cameron's PR spivery
And speaking of which...Charles said:You should also remember that a good negotiation is not about "winning" or "losing". It's about achieving a mutually acceptable outcome for both sides.
Cameron certainly 'played to win' in the Coalition agreement .... and lost.another_richard said:There speaks the voice of surrender.
While you're seeking your 'mutually acceptable outcome' the other side are seeking to win.
Was stabbing the LibDems in the back over AV really that wise? Goodbye boundary changes and goodbye UKIP trusting Cameron over EU referendum.0 -
F1: not a classic race, but post-race analysis is up here:
http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/spain-post-race-analysis.html
Given I was a bit out of sorts for various reasons this weekend I'm quite content with a tip wrong and a tip right.
Edited extra bit: not sure anyone will be bothered (science is usually not my thing for blogging), but here's the polygraph piece: http://thaddeusthesixth.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/the-polygraph-work-of-science-fiction.html
Short version: the polygraph doesn't work.0 -
Yes , no farming industry left and import food at higher prices , great plan.Charles said:
The £400 is related to the CAP.anotherDave said:
I've always thought UKIP's fuel policy was a good "better off with UKIP" offer. I'd never considered food prices, but £400 does look like a powerful 'vote UKIP/leave the EU' argument!Next said:
1. Without the EU, food bills in every UK household would be £400 cheaper.anotherDave said:"UKIP today reveals two new posters exposing the added cost of living that EU membership brings to people’s every day lives."
http://www.ukip.org/new_ukip_posters_reveal_added_eu_cost_of_living
2. Without the EU, every UK fuel bill would be £112 cheaper.
If true, that's quite a powerful message.
The UK would then need to decide what it wants to do with its agricultural industry. One option is no subsidies (and hence the £400 saving) but the consequence would probably be increased mechanisation and consolidation into gigantic agribusinesses.
Not saying if this is a good or bad thing, but UKIP needs to consider the consequences.0 -
Why do you think the LDs were stabbed in the back?Ninoinoz said:Was stabbing the LibDems in the back over AV really that wise? Goodbye boundary changes and goodbye UKIP trusting Cameron over EU referendum.
Cameron promised the AV referendum (which he delivered), and said he would campaign against it (which he did).
Just because the LDs "lost", does not mean they were cheated.
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When UKIP get their referendum and lose, they will say they were cheated too.Next said:
Why do you think the LDs were stabbed in the back?Ninoinoz said:Was stabbing the LibDems in the back over AV really that wise? Goodbye boundary changes and goodbye UKIP trusting Cameron over EU referendum.
Cameron promised the AV referendum (which he delivered), and said he would campaign against it (which he did).
Just because the LDs "lost", does not mean they were cheated.Next said:
Why do you think the LDs were stabbed in the back?Ninoinoz said:Was stabbing the LibDems in the back over AV really that wise? Goodbye boundary changes and goodbye UKIP trusting Cameron over EU referendum.
Cameron promised the AV referendum (which he delivered), and said he would campaign against it (which he did).
Just because the LDs "lost", does not mean they were cheated.0 -
Mr. Nabavi, How much of that was down to the campaign? I do recall Mr. Clegg being very particular about who he would allow to campaign alongside him and who he wouldn't, indeed whose support he wanted. On a Sunday afternoon years later I can't remember the precise details but I do remember at the time thinking, though I was open to the idea of AV, "Well if you don't want people like me on your side you can f*** yourself" and voting accordingly.Richard_Nabavi said:On topic: I've never understood why Mike and others assume that AV would benefit the Tories.
More to the point, however, it wasn't exactly embraced by UKIP supporters in the referendum, was it? If anything, the areas where UKIP do well were particularly strongly opposed to it.0 -
I've no idea how much experience of negotiation Cameron has but he will be well advised.Ninoinoz said:
Cameron certainly 'played to win' in the Coalition agreement .... and lost.
Was stabbing the LibDems in the back over AV really that wise? Goodbye boundary changes and goodbye UKIP trusting Cameron over EU referendum.
Cameron is Prime Minister. What other way of measuring "winning" in the Coalition Agreement is there?
And he didn't stab the LibDems in the back on AV. There was an agreement that the Tories could campaign against it. And the LibDems subsequent dishonorable behaviour will no doubt be factored into future negotiations0 -
Governments don't hold referenda they can lose cf 1975, AV, etc. Not really surprising, especially if you look at who controls the media - their supporters or employees.Charles said:
Why's it not democratic?Ninoinoz said:
Hardly democratic though, is it?Charles said:The most powerful weapon that Cameron has is the in/out referendum. It's the classic strategy of putting someone in the room who has to refer back to the principals for final approval. You want to keep the principals out of the room for as long as possible - and only bring them in when there are the last few points to be closed out.
You can, of course, show the huge business he built through successive deals due to his negotiating 'skills'.
One of the reasons Cameron failed to win a majority in 2010 was that it was focused on the Big Society when Cameron hadn't run a voluntary group in his life, except the Conservative Party whose membership has collapsed under his leadership.
You are trying the same, unsuccessful, trick again. Even fewer people will be fooled this time.
The PM is our representative. He's going to negotiate the best deal he can and then put it to the people to vote Yea or Nay. How much more democratic can you get?
So, the informed decision would be made at the GE, but Cameron refuses to inform us of his criteria. That's what's undemocratic about it.0 -
Mr. Ninoinoz, they held the promised referendum. That's the antithesis of backstabbing, it's more like tummy-tickling. Not the Conservatives' fault the Lib Dems failed.0
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That's a pathetic conspiracy theory.Ninoinoz said:
Governments don't hold referenda they can lose cf 1975, AV, etc. Not really surprising, especially if you look at who controls the media - their supporters or employees.Charles said:
Why's it not democratic?Ninoinoz said:
Hardly democratic though, is it?Charles said:The most powerful weapon that Cameron has is the in/out referendum. It's the classic strategy of putting someone in the room who has to refer back to the principals for final approval. You want to keep the principals out of the room for as long as possible - and only bring them in when there are the last few points to be closed out.
You can, of course, show the huge business he built through successive deals due to his negotiating 'skills'.
One of the reasons Cameron failed to win a majority in 2010 was that it was focused on the Big Society when Cameron hadn't run a voluntary group in his life, except the Conservative Party whose membership has collapsed under his leadership.
You are trying the same, unsuccessful, trick again. Even fewer people will be fooled this time.
The PM is our representative. He's going to negotiate the best deal he can and then put it to the people to vote Yea or Nay. How much more democratic can you get?
So, the informed decision would be made at the GE, but Cameron refuses to inform us of his criteria. That's what's undemocratic about it.
Which side did the government want to win on AV? Half the government was in favour and half opposed.0 -
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The £400 is surely more tariffs on non-EU agricultural goods, than subsidies to UK farmers.Charles said:
The £400 is related to the CAP.anotherDave said:
I've always thought UKIP's fuel policy was a good "better off with UKIP" offer. I'd never considered food prices, but £400 does look like a powerful 'vote UKIP/leave the EU' argument!Next said:
1. Without the EU, food bills in every UK household would be £400 cheaper.anotherDave said:"UKIP today reveals two new posters exposing the added cost of living that EU membership brings to people’s every day lives."
http://www.ukip.org/new_ukip_posters_reveal_added_eu_cost_of_living
2. Without the EU, every UK fuel bill would be £112 cheaper.
If true, that's quite a powerful message.
The UK would then need to decide what it wants to do with its agricultural industry. One option is no subsidies (and hence the £400 saving) but the consequence would probably be increased mechanisation and consolidation into gigantic agribusinesses.
Not saying if this is a good or bad thing, but UKIP needs to consider the consequences.
"As of last week, the world average price for sugar was £322 per tonne. The price in Europe, however, is now £630 a tonne. "
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/9904266/The-EUs-sugar-ruling-thats-left-a-bitter-taste-at-Tate-and-Lyle.html
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If the dvla car tax site doesn't identify the insurance it will not take your money, if it does take the money then your car must be on the database.
So the only way to find out is the DVLA database shurely?TwistedFireStopper said:Off topic, but I need to get a car road legal for tomorrow. It's MOTd, I've just insured it online, but need to tax it.
Does anyone know how long it takes for the DVLA and Insurers databases to get synched?
My son needs to use it tomorrow, but can't get to a post office to physically tax it.0 -
New Zealand scrapped agricultural subsidies and seem to have managed OK. The present arrangements produce some daft outcomes. For example, near me the chalk downs, where the top soil is very thin but were once some of the best grazing in Europe, are ploughed up and now are only kept in production by the use of chemicals (most of the top soil has been eroded), but prime arable land at the base of the hills have been taken out of productive use ("set-aside" started that trend).malcolmg said:
Yes , no farming industry left and import food at higher prices , great plan.Charles said:
The £400 is related to the CAP.anotherDave said:
I've always thought UKIP's fuel policy was a good "better off with UKIP" offer. I'd never considered food prices, but £400 does look like a powerful 'vote UKIP/leave the EU' argument!Next said:
1. Without the EU, food bills in every UK household would be £400 cheaper.anotherDave said:"UKIP today reveals two new posters exposing the added cost of living that EU membership brings to people’s every day lives."
http://www.ukip.org/new_ukip_posters_reveal_added_eu_cost_of_living
2. Without the EU, every UK fuel bill would be £112 cheaper.
If true, that's quite a powerful message.
The UK would then need to decide what it wants to do with its agricultural industry. One option is no subsidies (and hence the £400 saving) but the consequence would probably be increased mechanisation and consolidation into gigantic agribusinesses.
Not saying if this is a good or bad thing, but UKIP needs to consider the consequences.
Gigantic agribusinesses are the reality now in big chunks of England, so that's not really a scare story that will stand up to scrutiny. Mis-use of land and poor stewardship is also the reality now. Imports of food stuff that we should be, and were capable of, producing (e.g. milk) is also the reality now. Actually having an agricultural policy that suits us might not be a bad idea. Maybe we could even revive our fisheries.0 -
I'd imagine it's a combination - the CAP includes both subsidies and tarrifsanotherDave said:
The £400 is surely more tariffs on non-EU agricultural goods, than subsidies to UK farmers.Charles said:
The £400 is related to the CAP.anotherDave said:
I've always thought UKIP's fuel policy was a good "better off with UKIP" offer. I'd never considered food prices, but £400 does look like a powerful 'vote UKIP/leave the EU' argument!Next said:
1. Without the EU, food bills in every UK household would be £400 cheaper.anotherDave said:"UKIP today reveals two new posters exposing the added cost of living that EU membership brings to people’s every day lives."
http://www.ukip.org/new_ukip_posters_reveal_added_eu_cost_of_living
2. Without the EU, every UK fuel bill would be £112 cheaper.
If true, that's quite a powerful message.
The UK would then need to decide what it wants to do with its agricultural industry. One option is no subsidies (and hence the £400 saving) but the consequence would probably be increased mechanisation and consolidation into gigantic agribusinesses.
Not saying if this is a good or bad thing, but UKIP needs to consider the consequences.
"As of last week, the world average price for sugar was £322 per tonne. The price in Europe, however, is now £630 a tonne. "
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/9904266/The-EUs-sugar-ruling-thats-left-a-bitter-taste-at-Tate-and-Lyle.html0 -
If you check the bins, you'll probably find she's been using an English Afternoon Tea blend. Professionals don't like to mess around with poor quality supplies.HurstLlama said:
I don't know about that. The stuff big Vera knocks out in the morning at the local transport cafe is probably capable of reviving the dead - you can damn near stand a spoon up in it and contains enough tannin to unblock a sewer. That is English Breakfast Tea at its best (mind you if you ask her very, very nicely Vera will put condensed milk in it, then, with extra sugar, its just like the old Compo tea).anotherDave said:
English Breakfast Tea is an under-powered Trabant of a tea. You'd be better off with Ribena.JamesM said:Many thanks so far to @Malcolmg @dyedwoolie @AJK @CarlottaVance and @Charles for your suggestions. Wow, it is far more complex than I could have imagined! I have had a few friends via social media recommend English Breakfast Tea too. Are there any introductory websites on tea? Finally, I try to keep off caffeine where I can, does a decaf tea really ruin the taste for limited benefit?
PG Tips is the breakfast tipple of champions, and everyone else with any sense too.
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Miliband won't be able to, that is for sure.Richard_Nabavi said:
That is possible.Charles said:
I agree. I don't know why Mr Nabavi's usual judgement seems to have deserted him.MrsB said:Look, Ed might not be my first choice of PM, but an Ed / Nigel comparison? Really? Farage couldn't run a district council, never mind a country.
Admittedly he did post on Saturday night, so perhaps we should put it down to too much fine claret?
However, I do think that Ed will be appalling, probably even worse than Brown, who at least was paralysed by doubt, and was largely contained by Mandelson. Who is going to contain the lunacies of Ed?
The prospect of Ed Balls as Chancellor makes me nervous in a way that few other political possibilities are capable of.0 -
Seeing some of the comments below reminds me of a particular euphemism current:
"I want a debate on drugs"=I am in favour of legislisation
"I want a referendum on the EU"=I am in favour of leaving the EU
"I want a referendum on PR"=I am in favour of PR
This level of comprehension seems beyond most of the posters below.
The LibDems didn't want a referendum, they wanted PR. The got, in the end, nothing.
Great negotiation by Cameron? Not if you have failed to get the boundary changes you need first, it isn't.
Which he will ignore because he is stubborn and clueless. In any case, Britain has hardly distinguished itself recently in negotiation with the EU, has it? In fact, UKIP are basing their whole campaign on the cock-up over Polish entry.Charles said:I've no idea how much experience of negotiation Cameron has but he will be well advised.
A personal victory for Cameron, perhaps, but a massive defeat for the Conservative Party, whose interests he was supposed to be representing. Not auspicious for EU negotiations, is it?Charles said:Cameron is Prime Minister. What other way of measuring "winning" in the Coalition Agreement is there?
And so will Cameron's.....by UKIP.Charles said:And he didn't stab the LibDems in the back on AV. There was an agreement that the Tories could campaign against it. And the LibDems subsequent dishonorable behaviour will no doubt be factored into future negotiations
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Yes, but rather than subsidising all the farmers in the EU, we'd only be considering those in the UK. I believe the UK agricultural sector is smaller (per head) than the EU average.Charles said:
I'd imagine it's a combination - the CAP includes both subsidies and tarrifsanotherDave said:
The £400 is surely more tariffs on non-EU agricultural goods, than subsidies to UK farmers.Charles said:
The £400 is related to the CAP.anotherDave said:
I've always thought UKIP's fuel policy was a good "better off with UKIP" offer. I'd never considered food prices, but £400 does look like a powerful 'vote UKIP/leave the EU' argument!Next said:
1. Without the EU, food bills in every UK household would be £400 cheaper.anotherDave said:"UKIP today reveals two new posters exposing the added cost of living that EU membership brings to people’s every day lives."
http://www.ukip.org/new_ukip_posters_reveal_added_eu_cost_of_living
2. Without the EU, every UK fuel bill would be £112 cheaper.
If true, that's quite a powerful message.
The UK would then need to decide what it wants to do with its agricultural industry. One option is no subsidies (and hence the £400 saving) but the consequence would probably be increased mechanisation and consolidation into gigantic agribusinesses.
Not saying if this is a good or bad thing, but UKIP needs to consider the consequences.
"As of last week, the world average price for sugar was £322 per tonne. The price in Europe, however, is now £630 a tonne. "
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/9904266/The-EUs-sugar-ruling-thats-left-a-bitter-taste-at-Tate-and-Lyle.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_sector_composition0 -
I have read that we import shed loads of milk and milk products from Germany. Why, in our green and pleasant land? Perhaps not related but German Muller (yogurt etc) bought the UK's largest dairy Wiseman. Does British business have ambition apart from making a buck then retiring?HurstLlama said:
New Zealand scrapped agricultural subsidies and seem to have managed OK. The present arrangements produce some daft outcomes. For example, near me the chalk downs, where the top soil is very thin but were once some of the best grazing in Europe, are ploughed up and now are only kept in production by the use of chemicals (most of the top soil has been eroded), but prime arable land at the base of the hills have been taken out of productive use ("set-aside" started that trend).malcolmg said:
Yes , no farming industry left and import food at higher prices , great plan.Charles said:
The £400 is related to the CAP.anotherDave said:
I've always thought UKIP's fuel policy was a good "better off with UKIP" offer. I'd never considered food prices, but £400 does look like a powerful 'vote UKIP/leave the EU' argument!Next said:
1. Without the EU, food bills in every UK household would be £400 cheaper.anotherDave said:"UKIP today reveals two new posters exposing the added cost of living that EU membership brings to people’s every day lives."
http://www.ukip.org/new_ukip_posters_reveal_added_eu_cost_of_living
2. Without the EU, every UK fuel bill would be £112 cheaper.
If true, that's quite a powerful message.
The UK would then need to decide what it wants to do with its agricultural industry. One option is no subsidies (and hence the £400 saving) but the consequence would probably be increased mechanisation and consolidation into gigantic agribusinesses.
Not saying if this is a good or bad thing, but UKIP needs to consider the consequences.
Gigantic agribusinesses are the reality now in big chunks of England, so that's not really a scare story that will stand up to scrutiny. Mis-use of land and poor stewardship is also the reality now. Imports of food stuff that we should be, and were capable of, producing (e.g. milk) is also the reality now. Actually having an agricultural policy that suits us might not be a bad idea. Maybe we could even revive our fisheries.
0 -
@anotherDave
"PG Tips is the breakfast tipple of champions, and everyone else with any sense too."
Yes, I can see why it finds favour with certain types.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWI1f2Nk1OI0 -
@HurstLlama
"New Zealand scrapped agricultural subsidies and seem to have managed OK."
That's an understatement. The NZ agriculture sector has thrived:
The removal of farm subsidies has proven to be a catalyst
for productivity gains. Since 1986, productivity in New
Zealand’s agricultural sector has improved by an average
of 5.9% per year. By comparison, the period before the
removal of farm subsidies saw agricultural productivity
languish at an annual growth rate of 1%.
http://www.fedfarm.org.nz/files/2005---Life-after-subsidies---the-NZ-experience.pdf0 -
Dont take this the wrong way, I am not trying to play class war here, but do you, or any other non UKIP supporting PBer come to that, actually knock about in a social group where no one went to University, no one is a director of the firm and most are not into politics?CarlottaVance said:Most over-70s in Britain still feel uncomfortable about homosexuality, the Ukip leader, Nigel Farage, has said.
The politician made the claim as he defended Roger Helmer, the Ukip byelection candidate in Newark
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/may/11/nigel-farage-defends-ukip-candidate-roger-helmer-previous-anti-gay-remarks
But not strip bars.......
The lack of understanding as to what working class people would consider disgraceful/acceptable/neither here nor there is unreal.
Do you think the kind of bloke that votes UKIP is going to be put off by those comments about gay marriage? Most people I know laugh in a "worlds gone mad" way when it is mentioned, where as going to a strip bar would barely be mentioned
Im not defending or condemning either position, but you must surely be realising by now that they have different standards to you?0 -
England has been importing food for ages and ages. I remember seeing a newspaper cutting from post-WWII austerity Britain about being able to increase the butter ration because of increased imports from New Zealand.perdix said:
I have read that we import shed loads of milk and milk products from Germany. Why, in our green and pleasant land? Perhaps not related but German Muller (yogurt etc) bought the UK's largest dairy Wiseman. Does British business have ambition apart from making a buck then retiring?HurstLlama said:New Zealand scrapped agricultural subsidies and seem to have managed OK. The present arrangements produce some daft outcomes. For example, near me the chalk downs, where the top soil is very thin but were once some of the best grazing in Europe, are ploughed up and now are only kept in production by the use of chemicals (most of the top soil has been eroded), but prime arable land at the base of the hills have been taken out of productive use ("set-aside" started that trend).
Gigantic agribusinesses are the reality now in big chunks of England, so that's not really a scare story that will stand up to scrutiny. Mis-use of land and poor stewardship is also the reality now. Imports of food stuff that we should be, and were capable of, producing (e.g. milk) is also the reality now. Actually having an agricultural policy that suits us might not be a bad idea. Maybe we could even revive our fisheries.
I think the overall figure is that we import about one-third of our food. I would be quite worried about this, except that I also read that the Irish agricultural sector is aiming to produce enough food to feed 30 million people, comfortably covering our shortfall. I guess this is a legacy of the Irish Potato Famine - Ireland is relatively sparsely populated, compared with the dense population of the English Imperial homeland.0 -
Ludicrous. Your imagined effects aren't even consistent with each other. If it would cost more to import the food, then clearly our own farmers could undercut them.malcolmg said:
Yes , no farming industry left and import food at higher prices , great plan.Charles said:
The £400 is related to the CAP.anotherDave said:
I've always thought UKIP's fuel policy was a good "better off with UKIP" offer. I'd never considered food prices, but £400 does look like a powerful 'vote UKIP/leave the EU' argument!Next said:
1. Without the EU, food bills in every UK household would be £400 cheaper.anotherDave said:"UKIP today reveals two new posters exposing the added cost of living that EU membership brings to people’s every day lives."
http://www.ukip.org/new_ukip_posters_reveal_added_eu_cost_of_living
2. Without the EU, every UK fuel bill would be £112 cheaper.
If true, that's quite a powerful message.
The UK would then need to decide what it wants to do with its agricultural industry. One option is no subsidies (and hence the £400 saving) but the consequence would probably be increased mechanisation and consolidation into gigantic agribusinesses.
Not saying if this is a good or bad thing, but UKIP needs to consider the consequences.0 -
They are certainly expecting additional members from NI to make up the 15K marchers. However, they haven't got actual permission from the toon cooncil yet. We'll see.malcolmg said:I see the Orange Order are planning to have a parade in Edinburgh just before the referendum , with supporting cast from Ireland no doubt. That will be sure to help Better Together in the vote. LOL, what a bunch they have in Better Together, waiting till last minute to deploy their grassroots team.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/orange-order-may-stage-pro-union-march-on-eve-of-scottish-referendum.24188536
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Conspiracy fact, more like.Charles said:That's a pathetic conspiracy theory.
Which side did the government want to win on AV? Half the government was in favour and half opposed.
c70% of news output in this country is from the BBC, a public corporation.
And newspapers are either controlled by Tory or Labour supporters. Just see the silly biased coverage that UKIP are getting at the moment for evidence of that.
And are half of Government ministers really LibDem? Half of Government MPs most certainly are not.
I think the trouble with you, Charles, is that you work in an area where things are decided by law and are enforceable by the courts. In politics and foreign affairs, things are decided by power. Just ask Gadhafi, Putin and the Ukraine. And the LibDems.0 -
In part we import milk from Germany and other EU countries because of quotas. The same goes for fruit. a decade or more ago we had a campaign of grubbing up orchards across England because our farmers and fruit growers were not allowed to sell the fruit they produced.perdix said:
I have read that we import shed loads of milk and milk products from Germany. Why, in our green and pleasant land? Perhaps not related but German Muller (yogurt etc) bought the UK's largest dairy Wiseman. Does British business have ambition apart from making a buck then retiring?
So contrary to what was claimed earlier in the thread, a lot of the costs cited by the UKIP poster are not directly related to CAP subsidies but to the fact we are forced by EU law to import produce from other EU counties instead of producing the food ourselves.
Just one example of the utter madness that is a result of EU membership.0 -
No. Not much. Self enrichment is now the name of the game.perdix said:
I have read that we import shed loads of milk and milk products from Germany. Why, in our green and pleasant land? Perhaps not related but German Muller (yogurt etc) bought the UK's largest dairy Wiseman. Does British business have ambition apart from making a buck then retiring?HurstLlama said:
New Zealand scrapped agricultural subsidies and seem to have managed OK. The present arrangements produce some daft outcomes. For example, near me the chalk downs, where the top soil is very thin but were once some of the best grazing in Europe, are ploughed up and now are only kept in production by the use of chemicals (most of the top soil has been eroded), but prime arable land at the base of the hills have been taken out of productive use ("set-aside" started that trend).malcolmg said:
Yes , no farming industry left and import food at higher prices , great plan.Charles said:
The £400 is related to the CAP.anotherDave said:
I've always thought UKIP's fuel policy was a good "better off with UKIP" offer. I'd never considered food prices, but £400 does look like a powerful 'vote UKIP/leave the EU' argument!Next said:
1. Without the EU, food bills in every UK household would be £400 cheaper.anotherDave said:"UKIP today reveals two new posters exposing the added cost of living that EU membership brings to people’s every day lives."
http://www.ukip.org/new_ukip_posters_reveal_added_eu_cost_of_living
2. Without the EU, every UK fuel bill would be £112 cheaper.
If true, that's quite a powerful message.
The UK would then need to decide what it wants to do with its agricultural industry. One option is no subsidies (and hence the £400 saving) but the consequence would probably be increased mechanisation and consolidation into gigantic agribusinesses.
Not saying if this is a good or bad thing, but UKIP needs to consider the consequences.
Gigantic agribusinesses are the reality now in big chunks of England, so that's not really a scare story that will stand up to scrutiny. Mis-use of land and poor stewardship is also the reality now. Imports of food stuff that we should be, and were capable of, producing (e.g. milk) is also the reality now. Actually having an agricultural policy that suits us might not be a bad idea. Maybe we could even revive our fisheries.0 -
Not arguing with you.anotherDave said:
Yes, but rather than subsidising all the farmers in the EU, we'd only be considering those in the UK. I believe the UK agricultural sector is smaller (per head) than the EU average.Charles said:
I'd imagine it's a combination - the CAP includes both subsidies and tarrifsanotherDave said:
The £400 is surely more tariffs on non-EU agricultural goods, than subsidies to UK farmers.Charles said:
The £400 is related to the CAP.anotherDave said:
I've always thought UKIP's fuel policy was a good "better off with UKIP" offer. I'd never considered food prices, but £400 does look like a powerful 'vote UKIP/leave the EU' argument!Next said:
1. Without the EU, food bills in every UK household would be £400 cheaper.anotherDave said:"UKIP today reveals two new posters exposing the added cost of living that EU membership brings to people’s every day lives."
http://www.ukip.org/new_ukip_posters_reveal_added_eu_cost_of_living
2. Without the EU, every UK fuel bill would be £112 cheaper.
If true, that's quite a powerful message.
The UK would then need to decide what it wants to do with its agricultural industry. One option is no subsidies (and hence the £400 saving) but the consequence would probably be increased mechanisation and consolidation into gigantic agribusinesses.
Not saying if this is a good or bad thing, but UKIP needs to consider the consequences.
"As of last week, the world average price for sugar was £322 per tonne. The price in Europe, however, is now £630 a tonne. "
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/9904266/The-EUs-sugar-ruling-thats-left-a-bitter-taste-at-Tate-and-Lyle.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_sector_composition
There's a case for some agricultural subsidies - where there is a social reason (e.g. hill farms) and/or other positive externalities for specific reasons (I am quite a fan of the countryside stewardship scheme that Mr Llama refers to below, because it was very beneficial in terms of biodiversity). But basic volume driven subsidies to the agribusinesses (which are mainly - to my mind - in East Anglia* / Lincolnshire rather than to the South - are a classic example of taking money from the poor and giving it to the rich.
* Sorry, Kingdom of East Anglia for @dyedwoolie ;-)0 -
I thought the volume-based subsidies were ended a while back - is that not right?Charles said:But basic volume driven subsidies to the agribusinesses (which are mainly - to my mind - in East Anglia* / Lincolnshire rather than to the South - are a classic example of taking money from the poor and giving it to the rich.
Edit: Yes, I think I am right:
https://www.gov.uk/the-single-payment-scheme
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Up at six to catch the coach, Dad takes you to the coach stop to meet the others. Four seventeen year olds with backpacks and old jeans, brand-new boots chafing. Eight o'clock, start hiking up from the road to the summit, waiting for the mist to burn off, one foot in front of the other, no rush, just the steady trudge. By ten up by the ridge, careful now, a steep drop to your right, the SAS fall down it regular and they don't come back up. Eleven o'clock first summit of Pen-y-fan, not hot yet but mist away, you can see everything in the world. The green is waterwrapped and glistening: you could lick it. The lake below is sharp black, a shark-eye looking back at you. Thermos tilted, tea in cup: damn, we forgot the sugar, Kendal mint cake as substitute. Onward to the second summit, then downwards to Libanus and quietly pissed in the pub as only seventeen year olds can be. It was morning in Brecon, and I felt like a native son...SeanT said:The ONLY tea worth drinking is made from hand-picked properly aged yuanbaos of pu'erh tea, from Yunnan in southern China.
Ideally this £500-a-pot tea should be drunk from a long antique glass while sitting on a wooden Naxi balcony in the old town of Xiengili-la, under the east Tibetan Himalayas, as the sun rises over the Meili Snow Mountain. I did just this three years ago.
http://www.essenceoftea.com/blog/2013/11/the-unstoppable-rise-of-puerh-tea/
I defy anyone to have a more expensive, pretentious and indeed poetic tea experience,0 -
Is there a one 'anywhere' you can get a list of all the candidates for local elections? Done a google-tastic but no joy...0
-
A cute little saying, although not universally true of course. I for one want a referendum on the EU, and I'm favour of staying in it. Nevertheless, people not in favour of a particular option would generally see no point in a debate or vote on it, so it usually works.Ninoinoz said:Seeing some of the comments below reminds me of a particular euphemism current:
"I want a debate on drugs"=I am in favour of legislisation
"I want a referendum on the EU"=I am in favour of leaving the EU
"I want a referendum on PR"=I am in favour of PR
0 -
Simon Schama:
Robert the Bruce may have been the victor of Bannockburn, destroying the English forces of Edward II; but he was also lord of the manor in Tottenham and his grandfather, the first Robert Bruce of Annandale, had been constable of Carlisle castle for Henry III. But the rewriting of history in the service of opposed identities seldom allows for human ambiguities.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/085b4586-d5fc-11e3-a239-00144feabdc0.html#axzz31QCpc3C40 -
** LIKE **viewcode said:
Up at six to catch the coach, Dad takes you to the coach stop to meet the others. Four seventeen year olds with backpacks and old jeans, brand-new boots chafing. Eight o'clock, start hiking up from the road to the summit, waiting for the mist to burn off, one foot in front of the other, no rush, just the steady trudge. By ten up by the ridge, careful now, a steep drop to your right, the SAS fall down it regular and they don't come back up. Eleven o'clock first summit of Pen-y-fan, not hot yet but mist away, you can see everything in the world. The green is waterwrapped and glistening: you could lick it. The lake below is sharp black, a shark-eye looking back at you. Thermos tilted, tea in cup: damn, we forgot the sugar, Kendal mint cake as substitute. Onward to the second summit, then downwards to Libanus and quietly pissed in the pub as only seventeen year olds can be. It was morning in Brecon, and I felt like a native son...SeanT said:The ONLY tea worth drinking is made from hand-picked properly aged yuanbaos of pu'erh tea, from Yunnan in southern China.
Ideally this £500-a-pot tea should be drunk from a long antique glass while sitting on a wooden Naxi balcony in the old town of Xiengili-la, under the east Tibetan Himalayas, as the sun rises over the Meili Snow Mountain. I did just this three years ago.
http://www.essenceoftea.com/blog/2013/11/the-unstoppable-rise-of-puerh-tea/
I defy anyone to have a more expensive, pretentious and indeed poetic tea experience,
Although I'd do it alone.
(Edit: for me it would be the cup of tea a kind couple made for me at a campsite at Robin Hood's Bay, after a 21-mile backpack. I reached the campsite and collapsed onto the grass. After I had not moved for a few minutes, they came over with a cup of tea, whilst others gave me a slice of home-made apple pie - just what I needed. This was followed by a trip down the hill to the pub, and - joy of joys - a star party. Walking rarely gets better. And for once, a link:
http://www.britishwalks.org/walks/2012/962.php )0 -
@CarlottaVance
There are several good books on the subject, but as with English kings, history is always kind to the victor, and anything else gets amended or forgotten.
To often people prefer the fable to the reality.0 -
Thank you :-)Charles said:anotherDave said:
Yes, but rather than subsidising all the farmers in the EU, we'd only be considering those in the UK. I believe the UK agricultural sector is smaller (per head) than the EU average.Charles said:
I'd imagine it's a combination - the CAP includes both subsidies and tarrifsanotherDave said:
The £400 is surely more tariffs on non-EU agricultural goods, than subsidies to UK farmers.Charles said:
The £400 is related to the CAP.anotherDave said:
I've always thought UKIP's fuel policy was a good "better off with UKIP" offer. I'd never considered food prices, but £400 does look like a powerful 'vote UKIP/leave the EU' argument!Next said:
1. Without the EU, food bills in every UK household would be £400 cheaper.anotherDave said:"UKIP today reveals two new posters exposing the added cost of living that EU membership brings to people’s every day lives."
http://www.ukip.org/new_ukip_posters_reveal_added_eu_cost_of_living
2. Without the EU, every UK fuel bill would be £112 cheaper.
If true, that's quite a powerful message.
The UK would then need to decide what it wants to do with its agricultural industry. One option is no subsidies (and hence the £400 saving) but the consequence would probably be increased mechanisation and consolidation into gigantic agribusinesses.
Not saying if this is a good or bad thing, but UKIP needs to consider the consequences.
"As of last week, the world average price for sugar was £322 per tonne. The price in Europe, however, is now £630 a tonne. "
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/9904266/The-EUs-sugar-ruling-thats-left-a-bitter-taste-at-Tate-and-Lyle.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_sector_composition
* Sorry, Kingdom of East Anglia for @dyedwoolie ;-)
And lololololololololol Liverpool. Ha dee har har
0 -
Does the result mean Brendan Rodgers is leader of the opposition?
Never mind, you'll never walk alone and all that muck.0 -
The 'fable' can be more important than the reality! Its often what people end up believing as they get their history from cinema and TV....'when the legend becomes fact, print the legend'......Smarmeron said:To often people prefer the fable to the reality.
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New Thread - Ed is crap.0
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Thanks @AnotherDave. @SeanT, I think jumping from no tea to a £500 pot of the stuff may be a little too big a step for me at this stage. Call it my conservative disposition!0
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Posh version of ordinary tea imo. (I think they take the best bits of the leaf). Twinings is/are good.JamesM said:Afternoon all. I wish to pick the brains of the good people of pb.com with a question about a very common drink. I am contemplating entering the world of tea drinking. Ordinary, decaf, green and a fruit have been bought to trial. Any tips and recommendations for a nearly new tea drinker? I say 'nearly' as I have had about two cups about seven years ago!
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** LIKE **JosiasJessop said:
Although I'd do it alone.
(Edit: for me it would be the cup of tea a kind couple made for me at a campsite at Robin Hood's Bay, after a 21-mile backpack. I reached the campsite and collapsed onto the grass. After I had not moved for a few minutes, they came over with a cup of tea, whilst others gave me a slice of home-made apple pie - just what I needed. This was followed by a trip down the hill to the pub, and - joy of joys - a star party. Walking rarely gets better. And for once, a link:
http://www.britishwalks.org/walks/2012/962.php )
Aye, Mr. Jessup, the walk is great, the pleasure after ...
Many years ago my oppo and I were walking from the border to Aberystwyth, after three days in the mountains late one afternoon we came down into place called Devil's Bridge. Where there was campsite where we pitched, got a shower, made ourselves look as respectable as we could and presented ourselves outside the nearest pub at five minutes to opening-time with out tongues hanging out. Fifteen minutes later we were still standing there with no sign of the pub opening and getting seriously worried. A local wandering past asked us if we were waiting for a drink. We confirmed we were. He told us we were in Cardiganshire, which was dry on Sundays, pubs not allowed to open see. We were lucky that I didn't give way to my first impulse, which was to beat him to death, because even in Cardiganshire the Welsh aren't complete idiots and he took us with him to a place were we could get a drink, a meal and a very fine time.0 -
Socrates, you are being a bit harsh there. I am won over by yourself and Hurst's argument and indeed as usual when money is paid for doing nothing big business etc and predators move in. So it would probably be of more benefit, I stand corrected.Socrates said:
Ludicrous. Your imagined effects aren't even consistent with each other. If it would cost more to import the food, then clearly our own farmers could undercut them.malcolmg said:
Yes , no farming industry left and import food at higher prices , great plan.Charles said:
The £400 is related to the CAP.anotherDave said:
I've always thought UKIP's fuel policy was a good "better off with UKIP" offer. I'd never considered food prices, but £400 does look like a powerful 'vote UKIP/leave the EU' argument!Next said:
1. Without the EU, food bills in every UK household would be £400 cheaper.anotherDave said:"UKIP today reveals two new posters exposing the added cost of living that EU membership brings to people’s every day lives."
http://www.ukip.org/new_ukip_posters_reveal_added_eu_cost_of_living
2. Without the EU, every UK fuel bill would be £112 cheaper.
If true, that's quite a powerful message.
The UK would then need to decide what it wants to do with its agricultural industry. One option is no subsidies (and hence the £400 saving) but the consequence would probably be increased mechanisation and consolidation into gigantic agribusinesses.
Not saying if this is a good or bad thing, but UKIP needs to consider the consequences.0 -
Be a massive boost for YES if allowed, with all the usual drunkenness , fighting and general disorder, Edinburgh being wrecked would focus many minds.Carnyx said:
They are certainly expecting additional members from NI to make up the 15K marchers. However, they haven't got actual permission from the toon cooncil yet. We'll see.malcolmg said:I see the Orange Order are planning to have a parade in Edinburgh just before the referendum , with supporting cast from Ireland no doubt. That will be sure to help Better Together in the vote. LOL, what a bunch they have in Better Together, waiting till last minute to deploy their grassroots team.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/orange-order-may-stage-pro-union-march-on-eve-of-scottish-referendum.241885360 -
One can only say desperate, how low can the unionists go in their current panic.CarlottaVance said:Simon Schama:
Robert the Bruce may have been the victor of Bannockburn, destroying the English forces of Edward II; but he was also lord of the manor in Tottenham and his grandfather, the first Robert Bruce of Annandale, had been constable of Carlisle castle for Henry III. But the rewriting of history in the service of opposed identities seldom allows for human ambiguities.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/085b4586-d5fc-11e3-a239-00144feabdc0.html#axzz31QCpc3C40
