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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Why I am betting more on Warren being Biden’s VP pick

SystemSystem Posts: 11,002
edited April 2020 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Why I am betting more on Warren being Biden’s VP pick

Over the past 24 hours I’ve changed my betting position on Biden’s VP to put most of my money on Elizabeth Warren. This came after reading this from Taegan Goddard on his Politicalwire site under the heading “Warren Angling to Be Biden’s Veep” following her annoucement that she was seeking the job:

Read the full story here


«1345

Comments

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,015
    First?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,175
    Nigelb said:

    My father died today.

    My sincere condolences to you and your family.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited April 2020
    New order of PPE arriving tomorrow, including 400,000 gowns. However, that sort of numbers doesn't last that long if I remember.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,072

    Nigelb said:

    My father died today.

    My sincere condolences to you and your family.
    Likewise. Very sorry to hear that.
  • Nigelb said:

    My father died today.

    My sincere condolences to you and your family.
    I am so sorry to hear that.

    My sympathy and condolences to you and all your family at this time
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,072
    Warren makes a lot more sense than Harris but a female with governing experience would be better still.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,015

    New order of PPE arriving tomorrow, including 400,000 gowns. However, that sort of numbers doesn't last that long if I remember.

    Jenrick running the press conference today looks like a hospital pass from Raab. I don't think Dan from ITV will be invited back.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Nigelb said:

    My father died today.

    My sincere condolences to you and your family.
    Seconded. Hope you are managing at this distressing time.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,606

    New order of PPE arriving tomorrow, including 400,000 gowns. However, that sort of numbers doesn't last that long if I remember.

    Around 3 days.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited April 2020
    For the geeks among us, it looks like Imperial has started to release modelling code.

    Replication code for "Estimating the number of infections and the impact of non-pharmaceutical interventions on COVID-19 in 11 European countries"

    Code for modelling estimated deaths and cases for COVID19 from Report 13 published by MRC Centre for Global Infectious Disease Analysis, Imperial College London:

    https://github.com/ImperialCollegeLondon/covid19model

    And the more human readable stuff,

    https://mrc-ide.github.io/covid19estimates/#/details/United_Kingdom
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,075

    Nigelb said:

    My father died today.

    My sincere condolences to you and your family.
    Seconded. Hope you are managing at this distressing time.
    Hear hear.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,319

    Nigelb said:

    My father died today.

    My sincere condolences to you and your family.
    Ditto. I feel for your loss.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    It would be helpful to have someone on the ticket who had not reached three score years and ten.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,175
    FPT

    Regarding Japanese-German cooperation during WW2, the only notable campaign was the Germans and Italians sending U-boats into the Indian Ocean:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsun_Gruppe
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,767
    Nigelb said:

    My father died today.

    Sorry to hear that. Will keep you and your family in my thoughts.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    OT - I can see what she brings but she may also put off some of the more conservative Democrats. However, I have no clue just how the election is going to play out against the Coronavirus backdrop. My instinct would be that Americans might be convinced finally of the need for a more equitable and centralised health service less based on private insurance. However, much of what I read, suggests a lot like what they have. Maybe Smithson junior has some insight on this to share.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,926
    Warren seems to be the choice of the Democratic base and as OGH states will bring a lot of fundraising donors with her.


    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1251256269366792194?s=20

    However if Biden wants to add a youthful female then Whitmer is still a good bet, especially as she represents a swing state in Michigan while Warren represents Massachusetts which is already safely Democratic
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    @Nigelb very sorry, much love.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,124
    HYUFD said:

    Warren seems to be the choice of the Democratic base and as OGH states will bring a lot of fundraising donors with her.


    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1251256269366792194?s=20

    However if Biden wants to add a youthful female then Whitmer is still a good bet, especially as she represents a swing state in Michigan while Warren represents Massachusetts which is already safely Democratic

    Biden's team need to consider the heartbeat question given his age. Will Warren as veep candidate be able stand up to the GOP attacks on her endless policy plans? Is she the right person to be a heartbeat away?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,926

    Nigelb said:

    My father died today.

    My sincere condolences to you and your family.
    Condolences Nigel B
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,124
    Sleepy Joe and Pocahontas.

    Trump: "You want Pocahontas as President, when sleepy Joe finally falls asleep?"
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,075

    Sleepy Joe and Pocahontas.

    Trump: "You want Pocahontas as President, when sleepy Joe finally falls asleep?"

    Yes, it’s hard to imagine a less electorally appealing combination for the rust belt.

    I also don’t think it says too much for Warren if she’s using fundraising to angle for a personal position when she really isn’t the best candidate. Surely any thinking Democrat right now has only one priority - to get Trump out?
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    Nigel B Condolences for your loss.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,075

    HYUFD said:

    Warren seems to be the choice of the Democratic base and as OGH states will bring a lot of fundraising donors with her.


    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1251256269366792194?s=20

    However if Biden wants to add a youthful female then Whitmer is still a good bet, especially as she represents a swing state in Michigan while Warren represents Massachusetts which is already safely Democratic

    Biden's team need to consider the heartbeat question given his age. Will Warren as veep candidate be able stand up to the GOP attacks on her endless policy plans? Is she the right person to be a heartbeat away?
    A vice Vice President? Somebody young and fit who will be nominated for Veep should one of these two bow to age?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,561
    Can I add my condolences to Nigelb and his family.

    Sadly not the first PBer to suffer bereavement from this virus, and I fear there will be more.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,030

    It would be helpful to have someone on the ticket who had not reached three score years and ten.

    It's forever astonishing to me how these big ticket politicians are able to summon the energy and the motivation to keep at it in what by any definition are their declining years. I found myself unable to keep at it at the age of 42. OK, I realize that is earlier than most, and there were reasons, but Biden at 77? It really is quite remarkable. And yes, I agree, a VP pick of more tender years would probably be best. It does leave plenty of scope.
  • ArtistArtist Posts: 1,882
    A lot of Sanders supporters in the Democratic Party don't like Warren any more though.

    Warren also gives off elitist Hillary vibes that would hinder Biden with key switch voters. Just going with Harris would be fine.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,049
    edited April 2020
    Mr Smithson....you have always said that betting on VEEPs is a mugs game...

    But...Biden was my best political bet ever...he ticked all the boxes.....

    And on this one...I agree....I think Warren would be a great pic
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    A superb post about Brexit, Covid-19, ventilators and manufacturing innovation.


    "The government’s response to Covid-19 and Brexit are intimately connected...

    On the face of it there is a very great difference between the two policies.... But there is an underlying connection which is important. Brexiter arguments are centred on fantasies about British scientific and inventive genius. The government has sought to address Covid-19 at least in part on this deluded basis.

    At the beginning Boris Johnson stood behind ‘the science’ to justify a UK-only policy of ‘delay’ of the Covid-19 virus. This involved minimal intervention in what Johnson took to reminding us are the ‘freedom-loving’ proclivities of those ‘born in England’. Too late, what looked like a cunning plan to exemplify the virtues of the British way collapsed utterly. The UK is now broadly speaking following Europe and much of the rest of the world.

    But when it comes to ventilators a Brexiter innovation fixated logic applies. The current crisis has been an opportunity to illustrate the argument that the UK was a powerful innovation nation that could do very well without the EU....

    There were lots of allusions to the second world war as if Spitfires had been conjured out of thin air in the heat generated by patriotic enthusiasm. That wartime analogy was deeply misleading – the UK was a world leader in aircraft before the Battle of Britain. It had been making Spitfires since the late 1930s, and had huge long-planned specialist factories making them....

    One cannot magic an industry out of thin air, whether high end ventilators or batteries, but by referencing innovation one can pretend, for a while. And that is where the politics of Covid-19, and Brexit, are stuck, in cynical fantasies about innovation."

    https://www.davidedgerton.org/blog/2020/4/18/the-governments-response-to-covid-19-and-brexit-are-intimately-connectednbsp

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,124
    Artist said:

    A lot of Sanders supporters in the Democratic Party don't like Warren any more though.

    Warren also gives off elitist Hillary vibes that would hinder Biden with key switch voters. Just going with Harris would be fine.

    Yeh, I agree about the East Coast professor thing. It would be my worry with Warren.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,954
    JonathanD said:

    A superb post about Brexit, Covid-19, ventilators and manufacturing innovation.


    "The government’s response to Covid-19 and Brexit are intimately connected...

    On the face of it there is a very great difference between the two policies.... But there is an underlying connection which is important. Brexiter arguments are centred on fantasies about British scientific and inventive genius. The government has sought to address Covid-19 at least in part on this deluded basis.

    At the beginning Boris Johnson stood behind ‘the science’ to justify a UK-only policy of ‘delay’ of the Covid-19 virus. This involved minimal intervention in what Johnson took to reminding us are the ‘freedom-loving’ proclivities of those ‘born in England’. Too late, what looked like a cunning plan to exemplify the virtues of the British way collapsed utterly. The UK is now broadly speaking following Europe and much of the rest of the world.

    But when it comes to ventilators a Brexiter innovation fixated logic applies. The current crisis has been an opportunity to illustrate the argument that the UK was a powerful innovation nation that could do very well without the EU....

    There were lots of allusions to the second world war as if Spitfires had been conjured out of thin air in the heat generated by patriotic enthusiasm. That wartime analogy was deeply misleading – the UK was a world leader in aircraft before the Battle of Britain. It had been making Spitfires since the late 1930s, and had huge long-planned specialist factories making them....

    One cannot magic an industry out of thin air, whether high end ventilators or batteries, but by referencing innovation one can pretend, for a while. And that is where the politics of Covid-19, and Brexit, are stuck, in cynical fantasies about innovation."

    https://www.davidedgerton.org/blog/2020/4/18/the-governments-response-to-covid-19-and-brexit-are-intimately-connectednbsp

    Except the ventilator scheme has worked, hasn't it?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,124
    ydoethur said:

    Sleepy Joe and Pocahontas.

    Trump: "You want Pocahontas as President, when sleepy Joe finally falls asleep?"

    Yes, it’s hard to imagine a less electorally appealing combination for the rust belt.

    I also don’t think it says too much for Warren if she’s using fundraising to angle for a personal position when she really isn’t the best candidate. Surely any thinking Democrat right now has only one priority - to get Trump out?
    Biden can appeal to the rust belt. And he certainly wont be ignoring Bill Clinton's advice to put some effort in with the WWC and the rural communities, as Hillary did.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,926
    Artist said:

    A lot of Sanders supporters in the Democratic Party don't like Warren any more though.

    Warren also gives off elitist Hillary vibes that would hinder Biden with key switch voters. Just going with Harris would be fine.

    Harris also comes across as elitist with even less charisma than Warren.

    Harris also represents California, so like Warren represents a safe Democratic state.

    Whitmer who represents Michigan, a swing state Trump won in 2016, brings more to the table than either Harris or Warren
  • I'm very sorry to hear of your loss, Nigel B. My condolences to you and your family.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,926

    ydoethur said:

    Sleepy Joe and Pocahontas.

    Trump: "You want Pocahontas as President, when sleepy Joe finally falls asleep?"

    Yes, it’s hard to imagine a less electorally appealing combination for the rust belt.

    I also don’t think it says too much for Warren if she’s using fundraising to angle for a personal position when she really isn’t the best candidate. Surely any thinking Democrat right now has only one priority - to get Trump out?
    Biden can appeal to the rust belt. And he certainly wont be ignoring Bill Clinton's advice to put some effort in with the WWC and the rural communities, as Hillary did.
    Indeed, I think Biden will appeal less than Hillary did in the wealthy North East and West Coast so Trump might actually win the popular vote this time.

    However Biden will appeal more in rustbelt swing states like Pennsylvania where he grew up and with blue collar voters (while still winning California and New York even by a smaller margin) so I expect a closer result in the Electoral College which actually decides the Presidency.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,075
    tyson said:

    And on this one...I agree....I think Warren would be a great pic

    We’re not interested in her looks. It’s the ability of the Dems to nobble the nutter that we need to focus on.

    I am deeply sceptical that Biden is the person to do that. But Biden and Warren together? Pur-lease.
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    RobD said:

    JonathanD said:

    A superb post about Brexit, Covid-19, ventilators and manufacturing innovation.


    "The government’s response to Covid-19 and Brexit are intimately connected...

    On the face of it there is a very great difference between the two policies.... But there is an underlying connection which is important. Brexiter arguments are centred on fantasies about British scientific and inventive genius. The government has sought to address Covid-19 at least in part on this deluded basis.

    At the beginning Boris Johnson stood behind ‘the science’ to justify a UK-only policy of ‘delay’ of the Covid-19 virus. This involved minimal intervention in what Johnson took to reminding us are the ‘freedom-loving’ proclivities of those ‘born in England’. Too late, what looked like a cunning plan to exemplify the virtues of the British way collapsed utterly. The UK is now broadly speaking following Europe and much of the rest of the world.

    But when it comes to ventilators a Brexiter innovation fixated logic applies. The current crisis has been an opportunity to illustrate the argument that the UK was a powerful innovation nation that could do very well without the EU....

    There were lots of allusions to the second world war as if Spitfires had been conjured out of thin air in the heat generated by patriotic enthusiasm. That wartime analogy was deeply misleading – the UK was a world leader in aircraft before the Battle of Britain. It had been making Spitfires since the late 1930s, and had huge long-planned specialist factories making them....

    One cannot magic an industry out of thin air, whether high end ventilators or batteries, but by referencing innovation one can pretend, for a while. And that is where the politics of Covid-19, and Brexit, are stuck, in cynical fantasies about innovation."

    https://www.davidedgerton.org/blog/2020/4/18/the-governments-response-to-covid-19-and-brexit-are-intimately-connectednbsp

    Except the ventilator scheme has worked, hasn't it?
    Yes, we were loaned some by the German military and bought some from a few other countries.

    Read the whole article, as it expands itself more fully than what I've highlighted.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,538
    RobD said:

    JonathanD said:

    A superb post about Brexit, Covid-19, ventilators and manufacturing innovation.


    "The government’s response to Covid-19 and Brexit are intimately connected...

    On the face of it there is a very great difference between the two policies.... But there is an underlying connection which is important. Brexiter arguments are centred on fantasies about British scientific and inventive genius. The government has sought to address Covid-19 at least in part on this deluded basis.

    At the beginning Boris Johnson stood behind ‘the science’ to justify a UK-only policy of ‘delay’ of the Covid-19 virus. This involved minimal intervention in what Johnson took to reminding us are the ‘freedom-loving’ proclivities of those ‘born in England’. Too late, what looked like a cunning plan to exemplify the virtues of the British way collapsed utterly. The UK is now broadly speaking following Europe and much of the rest of the world.

    But when it comes to ventilators a Brexiter innovation fixated logic applies. The current crisis has been an opportunity to illustrate the argument that the UK was a powerful innovation nation that could do very well without the EU....

    There were lots of allusions to the second world war as if Spitfires had been conjured out of thin air in the heat generated by patriotic enthusiasm. That wartime analogy was deeply misleading – the UK was a world leader in aircraft before the Battle of Britain. It had been making Spitfires since the late 1930s, and had huge long-planned specialist factories making them....

    One cannot magic an industry out of thin air, whether high end ventilators or batteries, but by referencing innovation one can pretend, for a while. And that is where the politics of Covid-19, and Brexit, are stuck, in cynical fantasies about innovation."

    https://www.davidedgerton.org/blog/2020/4/18/the-governments-response-to-covid-19-and-brexit-are-intimately-connectednbsp

    Except the ventilator scheme has worked, hasn't it?
    Not yet - mass production, delivery, operation, and maintenance still to be proven surely? So we're in the position of seeing K.5054 over Eastleigh, or perhaps the first Mark 1s with two bladed airscrews, no armour, and unbulged cockpit canopies. I just hope there are not too many Defiants among the ventilators (but Hurricanes, for their ease of building and wexcellence as gun platforms, would be very acceptable).
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,049
    HYUFD said:

    Artist said:

    A lot of Sanders supporters in the Democratic Party don't like Warren any more though.

    Warren also gives off elitist Hillary vibes that would hinder Biden with key switch voters. Just going with Harris would be fine.

    Harris also comes across as elitist with even less charisma than Warren.

    Harris also represents California, so like Warren represents a safe Democratic state.

    Whitmer who represents Michigan, a swing state Trump won in 2016, brings more to the table than either Harris or Warren
    Warren is by far the Democrats best operator...she skewered Bloomberg..she is fearless, intelligent and carries the base and fundraising....

    Gore didn't bring home his state in 2000....so the state stuff is a red herring...

    Warren is what Biden needs....someone who can do the heavy lifting...he can be sleepy Joe...... and she can be the ballbuster....and for Trump you need someone who can bust balls...
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    edited April 2020
    Interesting part for me.....

    "Posterior model estimates of percentage of total population infected as of 2020-04-16: 4.19% [3.04%-5.75%] (mean [95% credible interval])."

    Others: Germany 0.82%, Italy 3.95%, France 4.14%, Spain 6.22%, Sweden 10.56%, Belgium 10.65%
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,124
    ydoethur said:

    tyson said:

    And on this one...I agree....I think Warren would be a great pic

    We’re not interested in her looks. It’s the ability of the Dems to nobble the nutter that we need to focus on.

    I am deeply sceptical that Biden is the person to do that. But Biden and Warren together? Pur-lease.
    I am also deeply sceptical about Warren.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187
    Would make sense as Biden wants a woman of colour on the ticket.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,926
    tyson said:

    HYUFD said:

    Artist said:

    A lot of Sanders supporters in the Democratic Party don't like Warren any more though.

    Warren also gives off elitist Hillary vibes that would hinder Biden with key switch voters. Just going with Harris would be fine.

    Harris also comes across as elitist with even less charisma than Warren.

    Harris also represents California, so like Warren represents a safe Democratic state.

    Whitmer who represents Michigan, a swing state Trump won in 2016, brings more to the table than either Harris or Warren
    Warren is by far the Democrats best operator...she skewered Bloomberg..she is fearless, intelligent and carries the base and fundraising....

    Gore didn't bring home his state in 2000....so the state stuff is a red herring...

    Warren is what Biden needs....someone who can do the heavy lifting...he can be sleepy Joe...... and she can be the ballbuster....and for Trump you need someone who can bust balls...
    Gore did bring his home state in 1992 for Bill Clinton though and again in 1996 when Tennessee voted Democrat for the first time since 1976
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,087
    Condolences to Nigelb. You join a distressingly long list of pb.com regulars who have suffered a close family loss in recent months.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,049
    ydoethur said:

    tyson said:

    And on this one...I agree....I think Warren would be a great pic

    We’re not interested in her looks. It’s the ability of the Dems to nobble the nutter that we need to focus on.

    I am deeply sceptical that Biden is the person to do that. But Biden and Warren together? Pur-lease.
    Warren skewered Bloomberg.....and kneecapped Bernie at the start....

    Biden needs a presence....and Warren gives him that....
  • SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 589
    May I add my condolences to those for Nigelb's father.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,918
    It's never not the right time for boorish (and possibly misplaced) triumphalism for some folk.

    https://twitter.com/LouiseMensch/status/1251468056397787136?s=20
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    New order of PPE arriving tomorrow, including 400,000 gowns. However, that sort of numbers doesn't last that long if I remember.

    Jenrick running the press conference today looks like a hospital pass from Raab. I don't think Dan from ITV will be invited back.
    ?
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,049
    HYUFD said:

    tyson said:

    HYUFD said:

    Artist said:

    A lot of Sanders supporters in the Democratic Party don't like Warren any more though.

    Warren also gives off elitist Hillary vibes that would hinder Biden with key switch voters. Just going with Harris would be fine.

    Harris also comes across as elitist with even less charisma than Warren.

    Harris also represents California, so like Warren represents a safe Democratic state.

    Whitmer who represents Michigan, a swing state Trump won in 2016, brings more to the table than either Harris or Warren
    Warren is by far the Democrats best operator...she skewered Bloomberg..she is fearless, intelligent and carries the base and fundraising....

    Gore didn't bring home his state in 2000....so the state stuff is a red herring...

    Warren is what Biden needs....someone who can do the heavy lifting...he can be sleepy Joe...... and she can be the ballbuster....and for Trump you need someone who can bust balls...
    Gore did bring his home state in 1992 for Bill Clinton though and again in 1996 when Tennessee voted Democrat for the first time since 1976
    When you win by a landslide the state doesn't matter.....

    In a tight race...Gore couldn't bring in his home state....

    I think this is going to be a Democratic landslide btw....but..if it's tight, I would want someone who can fight hard and fight dirty against Trump....Biden cannot do that, but Warren can.....she is knuckleduster kick ass operator....
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,124
    NYT:

    "The [Reopen America] rally in Austin was organized by Owen Shroyer, the host of a show on Infowars, a website based in Austin that was founded by Alex Jones and traffics in conspiracy theories. Mr. Shroyer told his Infowars audience this week that the coronavirus was part of a scheme by the Chinese Communist Party and the so-called deep state to undermine Mr. Trump , and that reports of overwhelmed hospitals like those in New York were “propaganda.” "

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,124
    tlg86 said:

    Would make sense as Biden wants a woman of colour on the ticket.

    :lol:
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,810
    RobD said:

    JonathanD said:

    A superb post about Brexit, Covid-19, ventilators and manufacturing innovation.


    "The government’s response to Covid-19 and Brexit are intimately connected...

    On the face of it there is a very great difference between the two policies.... But there is an underlying connection which is important. Brexiter arguments are centred on fantasies about British scientific and inventive genius. The government has sought to address Covid-19 at least in part on this deluded basis.

    At the beginning Boris Johnson stood behind ‘the science’ to justify a UK-only policy of ‘delay’ of the Covid-19 virus. This involved minimal intervention in what Johnson took to reminding us are the ‘freedom-loving’ proclivities of those ‘born in England’. Too late, what looked like a cunning plan to exemplify the virtues of the British way collapsed utterly. The UK is now broadly speaking following Europe and much of the rest of the world.

    But when it comes to ventilators a Brexiter innovation fixated logic applies. The current crisis has been an opportunity to illustrate the argument that the UK was a powerful innovation nation that could do very well without the EU....

    There were lots of allusions to the second world war as if Spitfires had been conjured out of thin air in the heat generated by patriotic enthusiasm. That wartime analogy was deeply misleading – the UK was a world leader in aircraft before the Battle of Britain. It had been making Spitfires since the late 1930s, and had huge long-planned specialist factories making them....

    One cannot magic an industry out of thin air, whether high end ventilators or batteries, but by referencing innovation one can pretend, for a while. And that is where the politics of Covid-19, and Brexit, are stuck, in cynical fantasies about innovation."

    https://www.davidedgerton.org/blog/2020/4/18/the-governments-response-to-covid-19-and-brexit-are-intimately-connectednbsp

    Except the ventilator scheme has worked, hasn't it?
    has it
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    JonathanD said:

    A superb post about Brexit, Covid-19, ventilators and manufacturing innovation.


    "The government’s response to Covid-19 and Brexit are intimately connected...

    On the face of it there is a very great difference between the two policies.... But there is an underlying connection which is important. Brexiter arguments are centred on fantasies about British scientific and inventive genius. The government has sought to address Covid-19 at least in part on this deluded basis.

    At the beginning Boris Johnson stood behind ‘the science’ to justify a UK-only policy of ‘delay’ of the Covid-19 virus. This involved minimal intervention in what Johnson took to reminding us are the ‘freedom-loving’ proclivities of those ‘born in England’. Too late, what looked like a cunning plan to exemplify the virtues of the British way collapsed utterly. The UK is now broadly speaking following Europe and much of the rest of the world.

    But when it comes to ventilators a Brexiter innovation fixated logic applies. The current crisis has been an opportunity to illustrate the argument that the UK was a powerful innovation nation that could do very well without the EU....

    There were lots of allusions to the second world war as if Spitfires had been conjured out of thin air in the heat generated by patriotic enthusiasm. That wartime analogy was deeply misleading – the UK was a world leader in aircraft before the Battle of Britain. It had been making Spitfires since the late 1930s, and had huge long-planned specialist factories making them....

    One cannot magic an industry out of thin air, whether high end ventilators or batteries, but by referencing innovation one can pretend, for a while. And that is where the politics of Covid-19, and Brexit, are stuck, in cynical fantasies about innovation."

    https://www.davidedgerton.org/blog/2020/4/18/the-governments-response-to-covid-19-and-brexit-are-intimately-connectednbsp

    Except that we do seem to be delivering on ventilators
  • ukpaulukpaul Posts: 649
    Andrew said:

    Interesting part for me.....

    "Posterior model estimates of percentage of total population infected as of 2020-04-16: 4.19% [3.04%-5.75%] (mean [95% credible interval])."

    Others: Germany 0.82%, Italy 3.95%, France 4.14%, Spain 6.22%, Sweden 10.56%, Belgium 10.65%
    Is this what they have found or what they hypothesize? The figure appears correct because of tests elsewhere, whatever the case, though. Their timeline is also a bit screwy, schools closed on 23rd March, everything else on the 24th, virtually concurrent.

    Those infections between 12th and 23rd March, you can see why people are seeing this as a massive mistake.

    Looking at other countries the Belgian graph is shocking. What is happening, are they ignoring the lockdown?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,672
    "Bridge to a future generation" was Biden's best soundbite of his campaign. That doesn't suggest Warren as VP, although I think he would want her in his team.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,468
    FF43 said:

    "Bridge to a future generation" was Biden's best soundbite of his campaign. That doesn't suggest Warren as VP, although I think he would want her in his team.

    I agree. Amy or Gretchen for me, but Abrahms not a bad choice.

    I do wonder if the betting value is on the men. Joe may forget choosing a woman :)
  • BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 1,884
    Andrew said:

    Interesting part for me.....

    "Posterior model estimates of percentage of total population infected as of 2020-04-16: 4.19% [3.04%-5.75%] (mean [95% credible interval])."

    Others: Germany 0.82%, Italy 3.95%, France 4.14%, Spain 6.22%, Sweden 10.56%, Belgium 10.65%
    Note also: the 'peaks' are very, very broad.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,468
    My commiserations @Nigelb

    I dread similar news of my Mother in Law in her nursing home on the Isle of Wight.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,672

    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1251528634155831297

    Some things are going to have to change after all this over. Social Care mess is another.

    This makes me very cynical. "Can't do anything about homelessness". Suddenly we can sort it all out in the instant, when those homeless might give us the plague.
  • BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 1,884
    RobD said:

    JonathanD said:

    A superb post about Brexit, Covid-19, ventilators and manufacturing innovation.


    "The government’s response to Covid-19 and Brexit are intimately connected...

    On the face of it there is a very great difference between the two policies.... But there is an underlying connection which is important. Brexiter arguments are centred on fantasies about British scientific and inventive genius. The government has sought to address Covid-19 at least in part on this deluded basis.

    At the beginning Boris Johnson stood behind ‘the science’ to justify a UK-only policy of ‘delay’ of the Covid-19 virus. This involved minimal intervention in what Johnson took to reminding us are the ‘freedom-loving’ proclivities of those ‘born in England’. Too late, what looked like a cunning plan to exemplify the virtues of the British way collapsed utterly. The UK is now broadly speaking following Europe and much of the rest of the world.

    But when it comes to ventilators a Brexiter innovation fixated logic applies. The current crisis has been an opportunity to illustrate the argument that the UK was a powerful innovation nation that could do very well without the EU....

    There were lots of allusions to the second world war as if Spitfires had been conjured out of thin air in the heat generated by patriotic enthusiasm. That wartime analogy was deeply misleading – the UK was a world leader in aircraft before the Battle of Britain. It had been making Spitfires since the late 1930s, and had huge long-planned specialist factories making them....

    One cannot magic an industry out of thin air, whether high end ventilators or batteries, but by referencing innovation one can pretend, for a while. And that is where the politics of Covid-19, and Brexit, are stuck, in cynical fantasies about innovation."

    https://www.davidedgerton.org/blog/2020/4/18/the-governments-response-to-covid-19-and-brexit-are-intimately-connectednbsp

    Except the ventilator scheme has worked, hasn't it?
    Passed safety tests and moving to larger scale production.

    The comment about Mark I s ain't far off as an analogy goes, just remember that Defiants found a use.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,538

    RobD said:

    JonathanD said:

    A superb post about Brexit, Covid-19, ventilators and manufacturing innovation.


    "The government’s response to Covid-19 and Brexit are intimately connected...

    On the face of it there is a very great difference between the two policies.... But there is an underlying connection which is important. Brexiter arguments are centred on fantasies about British scientific and inventive genius. The government has sought to address Covid-19 at least in part on this deluded basis.

    At the beginning Boris Johnson stood behind ‘the science’ to justify a UK-only policy of ‘delay’ of the Covid-19 virus. This involved minimal intervention in what Johnson took to reminding us are the ‘freedom-loving’ proclivities of those ‘born in England’. Too late, what looked like a cunning plan to exemplify the virtues of the British way collapsed utterly. The UK is now broadly speaking following Europe and much of the rest of the world.

    But when it comes to ventilators a Brexiter innovation fixated logic applies. The current crisis has been an opportunity to illustrate the argument that the UK was a powerful innovation nation that could do very well without the EU....

    There were lots of allusions to the second world war as if Spitfires had been conjured out of thin air in the heat generated by patriotic enthusiasm. That wartime analogy was deeply misleading – the UK was a world leader in aircraft before the Battle of Britain. It had been making Spitfires since the late 1930s, and had huge long-planned specialist factories making them....

    One cannot magic an industry out of thin air, whether high end ventilators or batteries, but by referencing innovation one can pretend, for a while. And that is where the politics of Covid-19, and Brexit, are stuck, in cynical fantasies about innovation."

    https://www.davidedgerton.org/blog/2020/4/18/the-governments-response-to-covid-19-and-brexit-are-intimately-connectednbsp

    Except the ventilator scheme has worked, hasn't it?
    Passed safety tests and moving to larger scale production.

    The comment about Mark I s ain't far off as an analogy goes, just remember that Defiants found a use.
    They did indeed find a use, alebit after some trial and error. And within the air defence system. But at least the Air MIn and RAF had multiple approaches on the go.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited April 2020
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,606
    isam said:
    Yes, the data paints the picture of a plateau.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    edited April 2020
    ukpaul said:


    Those infections between 12th and 23rd March, you can see why people are seeing this as a massive mistake.

    Looking at other countries the Belgian graph is shocking. What is happening, are they ignoring the lockdown?


    Seems so wrt the UK 12th-23rd. Hindsight and all, of course.

    wrt Belgium, their problem is apparently particularly acute in care homes - friend in Brussels heard rumours of near 100% infection rates in some of them.


  • sladeslade Posts: 1,928
    kinabalu said:

    It would be helpful to have someone on the ticket who had not reached three score years and ten.

    It's forever astonishing to me how these big ticket politicians are able to summon the energy and the motivation to keep at it in what by any definition are their declining years. I found myself unable to keep at it at the age of 42. OK, I realize that is earlier than most, and there were reasons, but Biden at 77? It really is quite remarkable. And yes, I agree, a VP pick of more tender years would probably be best. It does leave plenty of scope.
    Not exactly big ticket but I called it a day at 71.
  • BournvilleBournville Posts: 303
    FF43 said:

    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1251528634155831297

    Some things are going to have to change after all this over. Social Care mess is another.

    This makes me very cynical. "Can't do anything about homelessness". Suddenly we can sort it all out in the instant, when those homeless might give us the plague.
    A note of caution - we haven't actually sorted out homelessness, we've just corralled rough sleepers into temporary accommodation and made it very difficult for them to leave. This doesn't resolve the core issues most rough sleepers are facing; whether that's addiction, severe mental illness, inability to hold a job, etc. After this is all over, we could probably keep locking rough sleepers in hotels, but those core issues will still be there and resolving them is the primary challenge.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,987
    Nigelb said:

    My father died today.

    That must be an enormous event in your life. My sympathy and commiserations.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Artist said:

    A lot of Sanders supporters in the Democratic Party don't like Warren any more though.

    Warren also gives off elitist Hillary vibes that would hinder Biden with key switch voters. Just going with Harris would be fine.

    Warren was the absolute Majority pick by Dem voters for who they wanted as President.

    Just not who they voted for to be nominee.

    Hardcore Bernie Bros don't like anyone, their twisted logic has got many of them saying they will vote for Trump.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    I see the twats on twitter have WheresBoris trending.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,889
    So sorry to hear Nigelb's news on the previous thread. Deepest sympathies sir.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,172
    Very sorry to hear about @Nigelb's father.

    All best wishes.
  • BannedinnParisBannedinnParis Posts: 1,884
    Carnyx said:

    RobD said:

    JonathanD said:

    A superb post about Brexit, Covid-19, ventilators and manufacturing innovation.


    "The government’s response to Covid-19 and Brexit are intimately connected...

    On the face of it there is a very great difference between the two policies.... But there is an underlying connection which is important. Brexiter arguments are centred on fantasies about British scientific and inventive genius. The government has sought to address Covid-19 at least in part on this deluded basis.

    At the beginning Boris Johnson stood behind ‘the science’ to justify a UK-only policy of ‘delay’ of the Covid-19 virus. This involved minimal intervention in what Johnson took to reminding us are the ‘freedom-loving’ proclivities of those ‘born in England’. Too late, what looked like a cunning plan to exemplify the virtues of the British way collapsed utterly. The UK is now broadly speaking following Europe and much of the rest of the world.

    But when it comes to ventilators a Brexiter innovation fixated logic applies. The current crisis has been an opportunity to illustrate the argument that the UK was a powerful innovation nation that could do very well without the EU....

    There were lots of allusions to the second world war as if Spitfires had been conjured out of thin air in the heat generated by patriotic enthusiasm. That wartime analogy was deeply misleading – the UK was a world leader in aircraft before the Battle of Britain. It had been making Spitfires since the late 1930s, and had huge long-planned specialist factories making them....

    One cannot magic an industry out of thin air, whether high end ventilators or batteries, but by referencing innovation one can pretend, for a while. And that is where the politics of Covid-19, and Brexit, are stuck, in cynical fantasies about innovation."

    https://www.davidedgerton.org/blog/2020/4/18/the-governments-response-to-covid-19-and-brexit-are-intimately-connectednbsp

    Except the ventilator scheme has worked, hasn't it?
    Passed safety tests and moving to larger scale production.

    The comment about Mark I s ain't far off as an analogy goes, just remember that Defiants found a use.
    They did indeed find a use, alebit after some trial and error. And within the air defence system. But at least the Air MIn and RAF had multiple approaches on the go.
    Out of interest, why the 'at least'

    That's also precisely the situation in hand in the UK wrt these ventilators.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,172

    I see the twats on twitter have WheresBoris trending.

    They should have.

    We aren't moving out of lockdown until he's back. What sort of a country puts such an important decision on hold until an ill PM happens to be ready to return to work.

    It's ludicrous.

    Oh and I know we are in for another three weeks but if you can't see the principle here then you are beyond helping.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,178
    Foxy said:

    FF43 said:

    "Bridge to a future generation" was Biden's best soundbite of his campaign. That doesn't suggest Warren as VP, although I think he would want her in his team.

    I agree. Amy or Gretchen for me, but Abrahms not a bad choice.

    I do wonder if the betting value is on the men. Joe may forget choosing a woman :)
    You might be right but via Joe pulling out between now and the convention in August, and then a woman being nominated (sorry, Bernie) who then picks a male running mate (hello, Bernie).
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,889
    JonathanD said:

    A superb post about Brexit, Covid-19, ventilators and manufacturing innovation.


    "The government’s response to Covid-19 and Brexit are intimately connected...

    On the face of it there is a very great difference between the two policies.... But there is an underlying connection which is important. Brexiter arguments are centred on fantasies about British scientific and inventive genius. The government has sought to address Covid-19 at least in part on this deluded basis.

    At the beginning Boris Johnson stood behind ‘the science’ to justify a UK-only policy of ‘delay’ of the Covid-19 virus. This involved minimal intervention in what Johnson took to reminding us are the ‘freedom-loving’ proclivities of those ‘born in England’. Too late, what looked like a cunning plan to exemplify the virtues of the British way collapsed utterly. The UK is now broadly speaking following Europe and much of the rest of the world.

    But when it comes to ventilators a Brexiter innovation fixated logic applies. The current crisis has been an opportunity to illustrate the argument that the UK was a powerful innovation nation that could do very well without the EU....

    There were lots of allusions to the second world war as if Spitfires had been conjured out of thin air in the heat generated by patriotic enthusiasm. That wartime analogy was deeply misleading – the UK was a world leader in aircraft before the Battle of Britain. It had been making Spitfires since the late 1930s, and had huge long-planned specialist factories making them....

    One cannot magic an industry out of thin air, whether high end ventilators or batteries, but by referencing innovation one can pretend, for a while. And that is where the politics of Covid-19, and Brexit, are stuck, in cynical fantasies about innovation."

    https://www.davidedgerton.org/blog/2020/4/18/the-governments-response-to-covid-19-and-brexit-are-intimately-connectednbsp

    Well that is a complete load of rubbish that hasn't stood the test of time even before it was published. Turns out Remainer commentators are guilty of exactly the same blindness they are accusing Leaver's of.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,172

    JonathanD said:

    A superb post about Brexit, Covid-19, ventilators and manufacturing innovation.


    "The government’s response to Covid-19 and Brexit are intimately connected...

    On the face of it there is a very great difference between the two policies.... But there is an underlying connection which is important. Brexiter arguments are centred on fantasies about British scientific and inventive genius. The government has sought to address Covid-19 at least in part on this deluded basis.

    At the beginning Boris Johnson stood behind ‘the science’ to justify a UK-only policy of ‘delay’ of the Covid-19 virus. This involved minimal intervention in what Johnson took to reminding us are the ‘freedom-loving’ proclivities of those ‘born in England’. Too late, what looked like a cunning plan to exemplify the virtues of the British way collapsed utterly. The UK is now broadly speaking following Europe and much of the rest of the world.

    But when it comes to ventilators a Brexiter innovation fixated logic applies. The current crisis has been an opportunity to illustrate the argument that the UK was a powerful innovation nation that could do very well without the EU....

    There were lots of allusions to the second world war as if Spitfires had been conjured out of thin air in the heat generated by patriotic enthusiasm. That wartime analogy was deeply misleading – the UK was a world leader in aircraft before the Battle of Britain. It had been making Spitfires since the late 1930s, and had huge long-planned specialist factories making them....

    One cannot magic an industry out of thin air, whether high end ventilators or batteries, but by referencing innovation one can pretend, for a while. And that is where the politics of Covid-19, and Brexit, are stuck, in cynical fantasies about innovation."

    https://www.davidedgerton.org/blog/2020/4/18/the-governments-response-to-covid-19-and-brexit-are-intimately-connectednbsp

    Well that is a complete load of rubbish that hasn't stood the test of time even before it was published. Turns out Remainer commentators are guilty of exactly the same blindness they are accusing Leaver's of.
    Stray apostrophe there, Richard.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,087
    TOPPING said:

    I see the twats on twitter have WheresBoris trending.

    They should have.

    We aren't moving out of lockdown until he's back. What sort of a country puts such an important decision on hold until an ill PM happens to be ready to return to work.

    It's ludicrous.

    Oh and I know we are in for another three weeks but if you can't see the principle here then you are beyond helping.
    Top trumps is another three weeks of lockdown.

    The rest is just an excuse for Johnson-hate.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,881
    Anecdotal - No ambulances passing on today's run. Two police cars on blues and twos though.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,172

    TOPPING said:

    I see the twats on twitter have WheresBoris trending.

    They should have.

    We aren't moving out of lockdown until he's back. What sort of a country puts such an important decision on hold until an ill PM happens to be ready to return to work.

    It's ludicrous.

    Oh and I know we are in for another three weeks but if you can't see the principle here then you are beyond helping.
    Top trumps is another three weeks of lockdown.

    The rest is just an excuse for Johnson-hate.
    As I said if people don't get the principle....

    Of course it's another three weeks because we have had the scientists tell us that. But what if it wasn't?

    What if it isn't in three weeks time but Boris is still out of action?
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,936
    Very sorry to hear your news, @Nigelb - my sincere condolences.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,538

    Carnyx said:

    RobD said:

    JonathanD said:

    A superb post about Brexit, Covid-19, ventilators and manufacturing innovation.


    "The government’s response to Covid-19 and Brexit are intimately connected...

    On the face of it there is a very great difference between the two policies.... But there is an underlying connection which is important. Brexiter arguments are centred on fantasies about British scientific and inventive genius. The government has sought to address Covid-19 at least in part on this deluded basis.

    At the beginning Boris Johnson stood behind ‘the science’ to justify a UK-only policy of ‘delay’ of the Covid-19 virus. This involved minimal intervention in what Johnson took to reminding us are the ‘freedom-loving’ proclivities of those ‘born in England’. Too late, what looked like a cunning plan to exemplify the virtues of the British way collapsed utterly. The UK is now broadly speaking following Europe and much of the rest of the world.

    But when it comes to ventilators a Brexiter innovation fixated logic applies. The current crisis has been an opportunity to illustrate the argument that the UK was a powerful innovation nation that could do very well without the EU....

    There were lots of allusions to the second world war as if Spitfires had been conjured out of thin air in the heat generated by patriotic enthusiasm. That wartime analogy was deeply misleading – the UK was a world leader in aircraft before the Battle of Britain. It had been making Spitfires since the late 1930s, and had huge long-planned specialist factories making them....

    One cannot magic an industry out of thin air, whether high end ventilators or batteries, but by referencing innovation one can pretend, for a while. And that is where the politics of Covid-19, and Brexit, are stuck, in cynical fantasies about innovation."

    https://www.davidedgerton.org/blog/2020/4/18/the-governments-response-to-covid-19-and-brexit-are-intimately-connectednbsp

    Except the ventilator scheme has worked, hasn't it?
    Passed safety tests and moving to larger scale production.

    The comment about Mark I s ain't far off as an analogy goes, just remember that Defiants found a use.
    They did indeed find a use, alebit after some trial and error. And within the air defence system. But at least the Air MIn and RAF had multiple approaches on the go.
    Out of interest, why the 'at least'

    That's also precisely the situation in hand in the UK wrt these ventilators.
    'At least' in the sense that the Air MInistry hadn't relied on the Defiant alone. Notd intended to refer to the ventilators - very glad there is a imilar multiple approach with the ventilators.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,672

    For the geeks among us, it looks like Imperial has started to release modelling code.

    Replication code for "Estimating the number of infections and the impact of non-pharmaceutical interventions on COVID-19 in 11 European countries"

    Code for modelling estimated deaths and cases for COVID19 from Report 13 published by MRC Centre for Global Infectious Disease Analysis, Imperial College London:

    https://github.com/ImperialCollegeLondon/covid19model

    And the more human readable stuff,

    https://mrc-ide.github.io/covid19estimates/#/details/United_Kingdom

    Interesting data. If the Imperial model is correct, things will be grim for Sweden on its current trajectory. R=2.

    Evidence also that countries implementing lockdown early have had more success getting their Rt number below 1.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,672
    @NigelB, my sympathies for your loss. Thinking of you and all the other PB commentators with family in nursing homes. These are difficult times indeed.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,606

    JonathanD said:

    A superb post about Brexit, Covid-19, ventilators and manufacturing innovation.


    "The government’s response to Covid-19 and Brexit are intimately connected...

    On the face of it there is a very great difference between the two policies.... But there is an underlying connection which is important. Brexiter arguments are centred on fantasies about British scientific and inventive genius. The government has sought to address Covid-19 at least in part on this deluded basis.

    At the beginning Boris Johnson stood behind ‘the science’ to justify a UK-only policy of ‘delay’ of the Covid-19 virus. This involved minimal intervention in what Johnson took to reminding us are the ‘freedom-loving’ proclivities of those ‘born in England’. Too late, what looked like a cunning plan to exemplify the virtues of the British way collapsed utterly. The UK is now broadly speaking following Europe and much of the rest of the world.

    But when it comes to ventilators a Brexiter innovation fixated logic applies. The current crisis has been an opportunity to illustrate the argument that the UK was a powerful innovation nation that could do very well without the EU....

    There were lots of allusions to the second world war as if Spitfires had been conjured out of thin air in the heat generated by patriotic enthusiasm. That wartime analogy was deeply misleading – the UK was a world leader in aircraft before the Battle of Britain. It had been making Spitfires since the late 1930s, and had huge long-planned specialist factories making them....

    One cannot magic an industry out of thin air, whether high end ventilators or batteries, but by referencing innovation one can pretend, for a while. And that is where the politics of Covid-19, and Brexit, are stuck, in cynical fantasies about innovation."

    https://www.davidedgerton.org/blog/2020/4/18/the-governments-response-to-covid-19-and-brexit-are-intimately-connectednbsp

    Well that is a complete load of rubbish that hasn't stood the test of time even before it was published. Turns out Remainer commentators are guilty of exactly the same blindness they are accusing Leaver's of.
    Well it's also wrong because the government has magicked a ventilator manufacturing industry out of nothing. As I said earlier today, the "everything the UK does is shit and everything the EU does is amazing" crowd are grasping at straws. The EU scheme has completely failed and nations are having to replicate the UK and German schemes (France being the latest one).

    That doesn't absolve the UK of anything wrt testing and PPE. The government (specifically Hancock) has been been asleep at the wheel and we have no way out because we can't test up to 300k people per day like Germany and our doctors and nurses are being put in harm's way because the government failed to procure enough PPE or bring UK industry into the picture early enough to get domestic supplies in place in time for the expected shortage.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,191
    edited April 2020
    The Sunday Times Insight team have an utterly damning article on the avoidable failures when it comes to Covid-19.

    https://twitter.com/thesundaytimes/status/1251563504118771712
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,191
    edited April 2020
    Can I also offer my condolences to NigelB and his family for their loss.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,672

    FF43 said:

    https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1251528634155831297

    Some things are going to have to change after all this over. Social Care mess is another.

    This makes me very cynical. "Can't do anything about homelessness". Suddenly we can sort it all out in the instant, when those homeless might give us the plague.
    A note of caution - we haven't actually sorted out homelessness, we've just corralled rough sleepers into temporary accommodation and made it very difficult for them to leave. This doesn't resolve the core issues most rough sleepers are facing; whether that's addiction, severe mental illness, inability to hold a job, etc. After this is all over, we could probably keep locking rough sleepers in hotels, but those core issues will still be there and resolving them is the primary challenge.
    A very good note of caution. Nevertheless I welcome them finding accommodation for homeless people, when it was impossible before, at the point when they might become a problem for the rest of us. Even if it makes me a little cynical.
  • twistedfirestopper3twistedfirestopper3 Posts: 2,074
    edited April 2020
    @Nigelb
    So sorry to hear about your father.
    We come in here, retweeting and posting stuff that confirms our world view, slag each other off because we can't understand why some bloke can't cope with lockdown or cry because we can't buy bread yeast, but it's easy to forget the bottom line. That bottom line is that this virus is real, and for some families it has taken loved ones.
    Look after yerself, marra.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,178

    The Sunday Times Insight team have an utterly damning article on the avoidable failures when it comes to Covid-19.

    https://twitter.com/thesundaytimes/status/1251563504118771712

    Surely an echo of the 37 days' sleepwalking into the First World War after the Archduke's assassination.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,881
    I think keeping parks open is correct. If the parks shut, everyone will head out to the routes/places the people avoiding the parks are using. I'm not including the local park in my regular running route.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,809

    I see the twats on twitter have WheresBoris trending.

    I am surprised he hasn't recorded a short message TBH
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,191
    edited April 2020

    The Sunday Times Insight team have an utterly damning article on the avoidable failures when it comes to Covid-19.

    https://twitter.com/thesundaytimes/status/1251563504118771712

    Surely an echo of the 37 days' sleepwalking into the First World War after the Archduke's assassination.
    Much worse, you see little snippets like this.

    The failure to obtain large amounts of testing equipment was another big error of judgment, according to the Downing Street source. It would later be one of the big scandals of the coronavirus crisis that the considerable capacity of Britain’s private laboratories to mass-produce tests was not harnessed during those crucial weeks of February.

    “We should have communicated with every commercial testing laboratory that might volunteer to become part of the government’s testing regime but that didn’t happen,” said the source.

    The lack of action was confirmed by Doris-Ann Williams, chief executive of the British In Vitro Diagnostics Association, which represents 110 companies that make up most of the UK’s testing sector. Amazingly, she says her organisation did not receive a meaningful approach from the government asking for help until April 1 — the night before Hancock bowed to pressure and announced a belated and ambitious target of 100,000 tests a day by the end of this month.

    Oh and this

    It was a message repeated throughout February but the warnings appear to have fallen on deaf ears. The need, for example, to boost emergency supplies of protective masks and gowns for health workers was pressing, but little progress was made in obtaining the items from the manufacturers, mainly in China.

    Instead, the government sent supplies the other way — shipping 279,000 items of its depleted stockpile of protective equipment to China during this period, following a request for help from the authorities there.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,606
    "The NHS could have contacted UK-based suppliers. The British Healthcare Trades Association (BHTA) was ready to help supply PPE in February — and throughout March — but it was only on April 1 that its offer of help was accepted. Dr Simon Festing, the organisation’s chief executive, said: “Orders undoubtedly went overseas instead of to the NHS because of the missed opportunities in the procurement process.”

    From that Sunday Times article. What a shambles.
  • MaxPB said:

    "The NHS could have contacted UK-based suppliers. The British Healthcare Trades Association (BHTA) was ready to help supply PPE in February — and throughout March — but it was only on April 1 that its offer of help was accepted. Dr Simon Festing, the organisation’s chief executive, said: “Orders undoubtedly went overseas instead of to the NHS because of the missed opportunities in the procurement process.”

    From that Sunday Times article. What a shambles.

    I know, it's an utter shambles, there was so much that could have been done, but wasn't.
This discussion has been closed.