politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The lockdown continues to paralyse the country, LAB might have
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Its Labour Party exceptionalism. The belief that only Labour is Good and Moral. At best other parties are considered suspect (LibDems, Greens) at worst they are evil (Tories). Inside Labour it is easier to adopt this mindset if you want to navigate your way through the collective and that means its easy to make bold sweeping statements that to anyone outside the collective can sound arrogant/insulting. I've done it. On here. I'm sorry.Endillion said:Whatever "cultural" issues the Labour party has that preclude its institutional moral compass from operating effectively, I'd be surprised if they were fixable simply by "kicking out all the far left entryists".
Having rejoined I have various local colleagues who are caught up in this mindset. My analysis of why Labour got such a kicking on Teesside is that despite a long-term lack of action to fundamentally change people's lot so many paty members, officials and councillors believed that ONLY Labour could be voted for as the alternative was that people would vote for evil, against their own self-interests, for the bosses. Being able to blow through this absurd world view is Labour's challenge.5 -
Other Walker appointed judges got absolutely smashed. 20 points level of destroyed.not_on_fire said:
This result has genuinely made my day. Perhaps Coronavirus will enable America to rid itself of the cancer of the GOP.Foxy said:
Considering the pandemic and voter suppression that is a very impressive result.Alistair said:Hey, remeber when Wisconsin held an election during a god damn pandemic because the GOP sued to make it happen so they could win a Wisconsin Supreme Court seat?
Do you think it well for them? No, no it did not
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/13/us/elections/live-analysis-wisconsin.html
Karofsky has smashed the GOP Kelly by 6 percentage points.
Ooft.
Anyone doubting the motivation of the Never Trumpers needs to think again.0 -
I said since the election - you know, where voters had a chance to judge him as "a mendacious shyster with no personal morality and giant sense of entitlement" or as the PM the wanted. And where, oops for you, he got massive support from the voters.Foxy said:
Dying in a ditch (or not) over the extension.MarqueeMark said:
"a mendacious shyster with no personal morality and giant sense of entitlement"Foxy said:
No, he is still a mendacious shyster with no personal morality and giant sense of entitlement. His brush with death doesn't change that. The sycophancy is nauseating.Mysticrose said:Boris is the new Blairite champion of the soft Left. He has turned from villain to hero. First he savages Margaret Thatcher's individualistic (aka totally selfish) view about society. Then he issues a heartfelt paean to the NHS, championing it as everything that is great about this country.
Marvellous man. The new Tony Blair.
How has that shown itself since he has been elected PM with a majority of 80?
Freeloading Christmas holiday in Mustique
Not obeying his own social distancing rules.
Moving his pregnant mistress into Downing St.
The Leopard hasn't changed his spots.
Dying in a ditch? Prior to the election. And nearly dying in an NHS ward is the only "dying" voters will remember him for.
The holiday was a place going empty if he hadn't gone there. The value was declared on the register. Jeez, if that is on the charge sheet, Plod really doesn't have a case.
I think most people see Carrie as his fiance, rather than your huffy Victorian tones of "his pregnant mistress". Get in the twenty first century.
Not obeying the social distancing rules? Maybe he didn't. Maybe Westminster was just a heaving pit of the virus. Maybe Nadine breathed on him at a buffet. Or Barnier. Whatever, he's certainly a totemic example now for why we must obey the rules.
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If that's what CNN think of his briefings perhaps it would inform the public better if they didn't air every word he said live.Scott_xP said:
https://twitter.com/NickBryantNY/status/1249876226581434368Foxy said:CNN captions team having fun...
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No sh!t, Sherlock!TGOHF666 said:0 -
The media are clearly not having a good time of it.Morris_Dancer said:Confidence in media slumps:
https://twitter.com/jamesjohnson252/status/1249955974271643648
Of course, every afternoon in the UK, they have the chance to start changing this.1 -
Vile abuse gets dealt with in two ways - internal investigations and if required the police. As for the allegations about what various officials allegedly did I take the entire hatchet job with a massive pinch of salt. Diane received awful abuse - and the party should have acted long ago by pulling her from the front line. Most of the abuse hurled at her wasn't because she was a woman or was black, its because she was shit. Her calamity interviews unable to explain the policy or indeed count. Corbyn - as her former lover - couldn't see any of that and genuinely proffered her to the country as their next Foreign Secretary. Which is vile abuse of the electorate.rkrkrk said:Lol so your answer to the vile abuse thrown at Diane Abbott is to chuck her out of the party?
What Starmer should do, I don't know. But obviously, obviously not this.
What has Abbott done here? Called for the Labour Party to open itself to extinction by law suit. Far worse than anything personal to her, we're talking about the survival of the party. Of the movement. Ban her. And her former lover.1 -
You got there way before me!Luckyguy1983 said:Someone has been reading Hy...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/boris-broth-could-soup-speed-prime-ministers-recovery-coronavirus/0 -
Your last one is an odd inclusion with the others. Why care about his personal life? No one can be under the illusion some great politicians and people were not the best behaved personally and some horrible people have been.Foxy said:
Dying in a ditch (or not) over the extension.MarqueeMark said:
"a mendacious shyster with no personal morality and giant sense of entitlement"Foxy said:
No, he is still a mendacious shyster with no personal morality and giant sense of entitlement. His brush with death doesn't change that. The sycophancy is nauseating.Mysticrose said:Boris is the new Blairite champion of the soft Left. He has turned from villain to hero. First he savages Margaret Thatcher's individualistic (aka totally selfish) view about society. Then he issues a heartfelt paean to the NHS, championing it as everything that is great about this country.
Marvellous man. The new Tony Blair.
How has that shown itself since he has been elected PM with a majority of 80?
Freeloading Christmas holiday in Mustique
Not obeying his own social distancing rules.
Moving his pregnant mistress into Downing St.
The Leopard hasn't changed his spots.
Boris provides ammunition enough through his politics.1 -
RP, on a point of pedantry - it was as the next Home Secretary.RochdalePioneers said:
Vile abuse gets dealt with in two ways - internal investigations and if required the police. As for the allegations about what various officials allegedly did I take the entire hatchet job with a massive pinch of salt. Diane received awful abuse - and the party should have acted long ago by pulling her from the front line. Most of the abuse hurled at her wasn't because she was a woman or was black, its because she was shit. Her calamity interviews unable to explain the policy or indeed count. Corbyn - as her former lover - couldn't see any of that and genuinely proffered her to the country as their next Foreign Secretary. Which is vile abuse of the electorate.rkrkrk said:Lol so your answer to the vile abuse thrown at Diane Abbott is to chuck her out of the party?
What Starmer should do, I don't know. But obviously, obviously not this.
Which was actually much more serious as the Home Secretary has major administrative and legal responsibilities whereas all the Foreign Secretary has to do is not get drunk and tell obscene jokes to the wrong people.0 -
https://twitter.com/JamesAALongman/status/1249838988095107073Quincel said:If that's what CNN think of his briefings perhaps it would inform the public better if they didn't air every word he said live.
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Blame Eamon Holmes? Who thinks an inquiring mind means believing 5G conspiracies (sorry, not dismissing them because it suits the state narrative, as if theres a difference).Morris_Dancer said:Confidence in media slumps:
https://twitter.com/jamesjohnson252/status/12499559742716436480 -
Indeed. Most of the 'abuse' towards Abbot from political opponents was because she was illiterate and innumerate, not that she was black and female. (Random social media posters may of course have taken a different view).RochdalePioneers said:
Vile abuse gets dealt with in two ways - internal investigations and if required the police. As for the allegations about what various officials allegedly did I take the entire hatchet job with a massive pinch of salt. Diane received awful abuse - and the party should have acted long ago by pulling her from the front line. Most of the abuse hurled at her wasn't because she was a woman or was black, its because she was shit. Her calamity interviews unable to explain the policy or indeed count. Corbyn - as her former lover - couldn't see any of that and genuinely proffered her to the country as their next Foreign Secretary. Which is vile abuse of the electorate.rkrkrk said:Lol so your answer to the vile abuse thrown at Diane Abbott is to chuck her out of the party?
What Starmer should do, I don't know. But obviously, obviously not this.
What has Abbott done here? Called for the Labour Party to open itself to extinction by law suit. Far worse than anything personal to her, we're talking about the survival of the party. Of the movement. Ban her. And her former lover.
The attitude of her supporters was that because she was black and female, she was somehow beyond criticism or scrutiny for being illiterate and innumerate.1 -
My post was about what Kier Starmer should do not what I think, but since you ask what I think: Aside from the detail of each case ("shaking hands with infected people" etc), if I had to come up with a general worldwide lockdown incompetence index it would be a factor of the scale of the lockdown you were forced into because you failed to take more modest measures soon enough and the amount of death and infection that you acted too late to stop, multiplied by the amount of time you had to see that this thing coming.alex_ said:
Just out of interest, is it the fact that we are in “lockdown” that is due to the Govt’s incompetence or is that just a byproduct? Is there any country currently under lockdown conditions that you don’t believe to be led by an incompetent Govt? Given that you clearly don’t believe lockdown to be a necessary policy measure?
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Why is the labour organisation so dysfunctional? Are the Tories and LDs this bad?0
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So I see myself effectively as Tory by default because all the other parties are completely mad (as opposed to slightly). It's a much less inspiring worldview, but does make it easier to retain a sense of perspective.RochdalePioneers said:
Its Labour Party exceptionalism. The belief that only Labour is Good and Moral. At best other parties are considered suspect (LibDems, Greens) at worst they are evil (Tories). Inside Labour it is easier to adopt this mindset if you want to navigate your way through the collective and that means its easy to make bold sweeping statements that to anyone outside the collective can sound arrogant/insulting. I've done it. On here. I'm sorry.Endillion said:Whatever "cultural" issues the Labour party has that preclude its institutional moral compass from operating effectively, I'd be surprised if they were fixable simply by "kicking out all the far left entryists".
Having rejoined I have various local colleagues who are caught up in this mindset. My analysis of why Labour got such a kicking on Teesside is that despite a long-term lack of action to fundamentally change people's lot so many paty members, officials and councillors believed that ONLY Labour could be voted for as the alternative was that people would vote for evil, against their own self-interests, for the bosses. Being able to blow through this absurd world view is Labour's challenge.
Best of luck to you with your endeavours.1 -
How would this have caused more PPE to be manufactured?AlastairMeeks said:There will be a time when manslaughter charges will need to be considered in relation to the relevant government ministers for this failure:
https://twitter.com/jennifermerode/status/1249950265308000257?s=21
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Good for her.Scott_xP said:
https://twitter.com/JamesAALongman/status/1249838988095107073Quincel said:If that's what CNN think of his briefings perhaps it would inform the public better if they didn't air every word he said live.
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Hence why its easier to become PM from there j guess.ydoethur said:
RP, on a point of pedantry - it was as the next Home Secretary.RochdalePioneers said:
Vile abuse gets dealt with in two ways - internal investigations and if required the police. As for the allegations about what various officials allegedly did I take the entire hatchet job with a massive pinch of salt. Diane received awful abuse - and the party should have acted long ago by pulling her from the front line. Most of the abuse hurled at her wasn't because she was a woman or was black, its because she was shit. Her calamity interviews unable to explain the policy or indeed count. Corbyn - as her former lover - couldn't see any of that and genuinely proffered her to the country as their next Foreign Secretary. Which is vile abuse of the electorate.rkrkrk said:Lol so your answer to the vile abuse thrown at Diane Abbott is to chuck her out of the party?
What Starmer should do, I don't know. But obviously, obviously not this.
Which was actually much more serious as the Home Secretary has major administrative and legal responsibilities whereas all the Foreign Secretary has to do is not get drunk and tell obscene jokes to the wrong people.0 -
And its the same with Patel. Its genuinely great to see senior cabinet politicians who aren't white men - people should be promoted by talent. However its politics so people also get promoted because of who they are. Sadly Patel is a nasty person with hard right views who demonstrated not just illiteracy and innumeracy, but also dripping arrogance and the inability/refusal to think on her feet and be humble having made a glaring mistake.Sandpit said:
Indeed. Most of the 'abuse' towards Abbot from political opponents was because she was illiterate and innumerate, not that she was black and female. (Random social media posters may of course have taken a different view).RochdalePioneers said:
Vile abuse gets dealt with in two ways - internal investigations and if required the police. As for the allegations about what various officials allegedly did I take the entire hatchet job with a massive pinch of salt. Diane received awful abuse - and the party should have acted long ago by pulling her from the front line. Most of the abuse hurled at her wasn't because she was a woman or was black, its because she was shit. Her calamity interviews unable to explain the policy or indeed count. Corbyn - as her former lover - couldn't see any of that and genuinely proffered her to the country as their next Foreign Secretary. Which is vile abuse of the electorate.rkrkrk said:Lol so your answer to the vile abuse thrown at Diane Abbott is to chuck her out of the party?
What Starmer should do, I don't know. But obviously, obviously not this.
What has Abbott done here? Called for the Labour Party to open itself to extinction by law suit. Far worse than anything personal to her, we're talking about the survival of the party. Of the movement. Ban her. And her former lover.
The attitude of her supporters was that because she was black and female, she was somehow beyond criticism or scrutiny for being illiterate and innumerate.
Are people tearing chunks off Patel because she is an asian Woman? Or because she can't read out a number, can't admit she made a mistake, can't say sorry, tries to blame the victims for being victims, and can't close our borders having campaigned for years for the person in charge of borders to have the power to do so. In short, a terrible politician.2 -
And the longer they act irresponsibly the worse it will get.TGOHF666 said:2 -
“ Amid growing concern about the outcome of the inquiry, several NEC members are understood to have asked officials what indemnity Labour has, following fears that members of the committee may have to personally foot the bill if the party runs out of money.”1
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If, as looks highly likely, less PPE is available in Britain in a couple of weeks’ time than would have been the case if the government had not refused to join this scheme because of Europhobic dogma, it is almost certain that people will die as a result. The people responsible for that decision should be prosecuted.Socky said:
How would this have caused more PPE to be manufactured?AlastairMeeks said:There will be a time when manslaughter charges will need to be considered in relation to the relevant government ministers for this failure:
https://twitter.com/jennifermerode/status/1249950265308000257?s=211 -
The media has hollowed itself out - the internet has allowed loons to pontificate, but it has also revealed the basic lack of knowledge of the world in much of the media.Morris_Dancer said:Confidence in media slumps:
https://twitter.com/jamesjohnson252/status/1249955974271643648
We live in a highly technical world. Lots of detail and facts out there. ArsTechnica carry far better reports on such matters than grace the New York Times, or the London Times.
There are jokes for every technical field such as - https://aviationhumor.net/journalists-guide-to-aircraft-identification/
Journalists have tried to laugh such things off, or pretend that they are not interesting to the general public.
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AlastairMeeks said:
There will be a time when manslaughter charges will need to be considered in relation to the relevant government ministers for this failure:
https://twitter.com/jennifermerode/status/1249950265308000257?s=21
What happened to.the charges over an.illegal.war0 -
Well, that article is two weeks old. I did enjoy this, though:AlastairMeeks said:There will be a time when manslaughter charges will need to be considered in relation to the relevant government ministers for this failure:
https://twitter.com/jennifermerode/status/1249950265308000257?s=21
The logic behind joint procurement is to reduce red tape...
Two and a half months on from the first meeting, and still no equipment delivered?2 -
If you wanted to mention Carrie, a better question might be how she has suddenly materialised at Chequers.kle4 said:
Your last one is an odd inclusion with the others. Why care about his personal life? No one can be under the illusion some great politicians and people were not the best behaved personally and some horrible people have been.Foxy said:
Dying in a ditch (or not) over the extension.MarqueeMark said:
"a mendacious shyster with no personal morality and giant sense of entitlement"Foxy said:
No, he is still a mendacious shyster with no personal morality and giant sense of entitlement. His brush with death doesn't change that. The sycophancy is nauseating.Mysticrose said:Boris is the new Blairite champion of the soft Left. He has turned from villain to hero. First he savages Margaret Thatcher's individualistic (aka totally selfish) view about society. Then he issues a heartfelt paean to the NHS, championing it as everything that is great about this country.
Marvellous man. The new Tony Blair.
How has that shown itself since he has been elected PM with a majority of 80?
Freeloading Christmas holiday in Mustique
Not obeying his own social distancing rules.
Moving his pregnant mistress into Downing St.
The Leopard hasn't changed his spots.
Boris provides ammunition enough through his politics.
Still, Robert Jenrick must be more relaxed now -- he faced calls to resign over apparently breaking the rules against moving to second (or third, in his case) homes. Every cloud...0 -
There are a lot of people who claim to believe that Boris is "left of centre".logical_song said:
... but, but, but Mysticrose is 'left of centre' !!!???!!!Mysticrose said:But I think if Keir Starmer did want to play it to his advantage then purging Momentum and anti-semitism would be a good look.
Anyone in Labour who blocked Corbyn coming to power will be an utter hero to the electorate.
Not that it matters anyway. Our real hero, Boris, will romp to victory next time.
Most of them are right-wing extremists.0 -
I'm still shocked when I see how badly the party did in the NE generally. And if you look at Electoral Calculus now they are currently on course to lose further seats in Durham, Tyneside, Northumberland and all 3 seats in Sunderland. If even half of that happened no amount of movement to them further south could save them.RochdalePioneers said:
Its Labour Party exceptionalism. The belief that only Labour is Good and Moral. At best other parties are considered suspect (LibDems, Greens) at worst they are evil (Tories). Inside Labour it is easier to adopt this mindset if you want to navigate your way through the collective and that means its easy to make bold sweeping statements that to anyone outside the collective can sound arrogant/insulting. I've done it. On here. I'm sorry.Endillion said:Whatever "cultural" issues the Labour party has that preclude its institutional moral compass from operating effectively, I'd be surprised if they were fixable simply by "kicking out all the far left entryists".
Having rejoined I have various local colleagues who are caught up in this mindset. My analysis of why Labour got such a kicking on Teesside is that despite a long-term lack of action to fundamentally change people's lot so many paty members, officials and councillors believed that ONLY Labour could be voted for as the alternative was that people would vote for evil, against their own self-interests, for the bosses. Being able to blow through this absurd world view is Labour's challenge.0 -
Just as extraordinary were the exchanges over his claims for Presidential "absolute authority".Scott_xP said:
https://twitter.com/JamesAALongman/status/1249838988095107073Quincel said:If that's what CNN think of his briefings perhaps it would inform the public better if they didn't air every word he said live.
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I’d be wary about drawing too many conclusions from a single slide without supporting tables from a polling company that is not a member of the BPC.
Perhaps we’ll get more details later.0 -
This. 1000x this.
"Not everyone who instinctively wants the lockdown to be eased as soon as possible is guilty of putting profit before life. It is surely not irresponsible to wonder whether the suspension of everyday existence is not already proving unsustainable, and whether there might come a point when the risks of the virus are outweighed by damage to people’s lives that may prove irreparable."
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/13/millions-lockdown-food-parcels-coronavirus-crisis2 -
I think you may be mixing me up with somebody else???felix said:
Edmund is only interested in extolling the virtues of a Labour government - everything else is collatoral damage.0 -
I think we should be very grateful to Labour for the truly awesome distraction therapy they are providing to the nation at this rather trying moment.TGOHF666 said:“ Amid growing concern about the outcome of the inquiry, several NEC members are understood to have asked officials what indemnity Labour has, following fears that members of the committee may have to personally foot the bill if the party runs out of money.”
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Interesting to juxtapose Owen Jones and friends, banging on about how Boris should have locked us down earlier and harder, and John Harris's report on what it is actually like for the poorest.1
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Mainstream reporting on aviation is hilarious, there’s usually way more incorrect ‘facts’ than correct ones in reports. Watching them try and understand MCAS was rather amusing, as was them insisting that all the 737NG planes had the same system.Malmesbury said:
The media has hollowed itself out - the internet has allowed loons to pontificate, but it has also revealed the basic lack of knowledge of the world in much of the media.Morris_Dancer said:Confidence in media slumps:
https://twitter.com/jamesjohnson252/status/1249955974271643648
We live in a highly technical world. Lots of detail and facts out there. ArsTechnica carry far better reports on such matters than grace the New York Times, or the London Times.
There are jokes for every technical field such as - https://aviationhumor.net/journalists-guide-to-aircraft-identification/
Journalists have tried to laugh such things off, or pretend that they are not interesting to the general public.
Makes one think about all the other subjects on which I am not as knowledgable, and am supposed to rely on them to inform me!0 -
Anyone who has seen the Labour Party close up knows what a horrible organisation it is. Out in the sticks where Labour has no influence, individual Labour activists seem like harmless well meaning people, but live somewhere like London where they have real power and you'll see what they are really like.Endillion said:I find it's always worth remembering that, for a period of several months, the "hero" of those opposing Corbyn and Corbynism within the Labour party, was Tom Watson: a man who weaponised utterly baseless claims of paedophilia for political reasons, and abused his position to lean on the police to harass innocent men.
It's also clear that, even if all (or almost all) of the anti-Semitism was coming from one wing of the party, there were other issues (the Bex Bailey affair in particular) that seemed to imply a rather more widespread problem.
Whatever "cultural" issues the Labour party has that preclude its institutional moral compass from operating effectively, I'd be surprised if they were fixable simply by "kicking out all the far left entryists".2 -
I am trying to remember the name someone gave this phenomenon -Sandpit said:
Mainstream reporting on aviation is hilarious, there’s usually way more incorrect ‘facts’ than correct ones in reports.Malmesbury said:
The media has hollowed itself out - the internet has allowed loons to pontificate, but it has also revealed the basic lack of knowledge of the world in much of the media.Morris_Dancer said:Confidence in media slumps:
https://twitter.com/jamesjohnson252/status/1249955974271643648
We live in a highly technical world. Lots of detail and facts out there. ArsTechnica carry far better reports on such matters than grace the New York Times, or the London Times.
There are jokes for every technical field such as - https://aviationhumor.net/journalists-guide-to-aircraft-identification/
Journalists have tried to laugh such things off, or pretend that they are not interesting to the general public.
Makes one think about all the other subjects on which I am not as knowledgable, and am supposed to rely on them to inform me!
- On X, Y, Z , which I have knowledge of, source A is talking bollocks.
- I am suppose to belies them on other topics which I don't have knowledge of.1 -
Worse still, their station bosses are watching and think they’re doing a good job too.BannedinnParis said:0 -
It may be that Downing Street has not yet been fully "deep cleaned". Chequers makes sense. Boris has been declared free of Covid-19. After displaying some symptoms, I presume Carrie has been declared free of it too.DecrepiterJohnL said:
If you wanted to mention Carrie, a better question might be how she has suddenly materialised at Chequers.kle4 said:
Your last one is an odd inclusion with the others. Why care about his personal life? No one can be under the illusion some great politicians and people were not the best behaved personally and some horrible people have been.Foxy said:
Dying in a ditch (or not) over the extension.MarqueeMark said:
"a mendacious shyster with no personal morality and giant sense of entitlement"Foxy said:
No, he is still a mendacious shyster with no personal morality and giant sense of entitlement. His brush with death doesn't change that. The sycophancy is nauseating.Mysticrose said:Boris is the new Blairite champion of the soft Left. He has turned from villain to hero. First he savages Margaret Thatcher's individualistic (aka totally selfish) view about society. Then he issues a heartfelt paean to the NHS, championing it as everything that is great about this country.
Marvellous man. The new Tony Blair.
How has that shown itself since he has been elected PM with a majority of 80?
Freeloading Christmas holiday in Mustique
Not obeying his own social distancing rules.
Moving his pregnant mistress into Downing St.
The Leopard hasn't changed his spots.
Boris provides ammunition enough through his politics.
Still, Robert Jenrick must be more relaxed now -- he faced calls to resign over apparently breaking the rules against moving to second (or third, in his case) homes. Every cloud...
You REALLY think there's a story here beyond low-grade Boris bashing for Boris bashing's sake?4 -
Mr. kle4, I'd love to know the mechanism by which people appear to think 5G causes harm.
And how they think the whole world and every medical institution globally is engaged in a conspiracy to pretend a virus exists that apparently does not.
Mr. Meeks, more polling on this would be useful.
Mr. Sandpit, I remember a BBC article warning against reading e-books before bed because the blue light (believe that was the type) of e-readers was harmful to the production of a chemical associated with restful sleep.
Only e-readers don't emit blue light. Tablets and smartphones do, but e-readers are specifically designed to be easy on the eyes.
Although my favourite media moments are the dumb ones. Richard Bilton, reporting on the migrant crisis, remarking that he was surrounded by a large body of water (he was in the Mediterranean). Or Richard Bilton, asking a Greek fireman if the approaching forest fire was dangerous. Or an ITV chap, remarking with great insight that the avalanche went downhill 'powered by gravity'. Cheers, newsman, I was wondering why avalanches didn't go uphill.0 -
well, you're a lawyer are you going to do it ?AlastairMeeks said:
If, as looks highly likely, less PPE is available in Britain in a couple of weeks’ time than would have been the case if the government had not refused to join this scheme because of Europhobic dogma, it is almost certain that people will die as a result. The people responsible for that decision should be prosecuted.Socky said:
How would this have caused more PPE to be manufactured?AlastairMeeks said:There will be a time when manslaughter charges will need to be considered in relation to the relevant government ministers for this failure:
https://twitter.com/jennifermerode/status/1249950265308000257?s=211 -
2
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Here's one for you...Sandpit said:
Mainstream reporting on aviation is hilarious, there’s usually way more incorrect ‘facts’ than correct ones in reports. Watching them try and understand MCAS was rather amusing, as was them insisting that all the 737NG planes had the same system.Malmesbury said:
The media has hollowed itself out - the internet has allowed loons to pontificate, but it has also revealed the basic lack of knowledge of the world in much of the media.Morris_Dancer said:Confidence in media slumps:
https://twitter.com/jamesjohnson252/status/1249955974271643648
We live in a highly technical world. Lots of detail and facts out there. ArsTechnica carry far better reports on such matters than grace the New York Times, or the London Times.
There are jokes for every technical field such as - https://aviationhumor.net/journalists-guide-to-aircraft-identification/
Journalists have tried to laugh such things off, or pretend that they are not interesting to the general public.
Makes one think about all the other subjects on which I am not as knowledgable, and am supposed to rely on them to inform me!
Man accidentally ejects himself from fighter jet during surprise flight
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/14/man-accidentally-ejects-himself-from-fighter-jet-during-surprise-flight
... made me laugh, too.1 -
Boris could have knocked up a couple of fully automated PPE factories in Slough instead of watching Withnail and I ?AlastairMeeks said:
If, as looks highly likely, less PPE is available in Britain in a couple of weeks’ time than would have been the case if the government had not refused to join this scheme because of Europhobic dogma, it is almost certain that people will die as a result. The people responsible for that decision should be prosecuted.Socky said:
How would this have caused more PPE to be manufactured?AlastairMeeks said:There will be a time when manslaughter charges will need to be considered in relation to the relevant government ministers for this failure:
https://twitter.com/jennifermerode/status/1249950265308000257?s=21
Sure..0 -
😀 My role here is done.DecrepiterJohnL said:OT I'm now being shown adverts for plants, owing no doubt to pb's gardening features.
0 -
There are a significant number of voters up here who *want* to vote Labour. Starmer's challenge is to make that feel possible to these former Labour voters. How do we do it? Stop speaking alien. These are proud communities, industrious working communities. Labour stopped speaking to working people under Ed Milliband and by 2019 had divided the world into those on zero-hours/benefits and oligarchs. There was literally nothing in-between, and if you were someone in a job grafting - or even wanted such a job - you were utterly ignored.felix said:
I'm still shocked when I see how badly the party did in the NE generally. And if you look at Electoral Calculus now they are currently on course to lose further seats in Durham, Tyneside, Northumberland and all 3 seats in Sunderland. If even half of that happened no amount of movement to them further south could save them.RochdalePioneers said:
Its Labour Party exceptionalism. The belief that only Labour is Good and Moral. At best other parties are considered suspect (LibDems, Greens) at worst they are evil (Tories). Inside Labour it is easier to adopt this mindset if you want to navigate your way through the collective and that means its easy to make bold sweeping statements that to anyone outside the collective can sound arrogant/insulting. I've done it. On here. I'm sorry.Endillion said:Whatever "cultural" issues the Labour party has that preclude its institutional moral compass from operating effectively, I'd be surprised if they were fixable simply by "kicking out all the far left entryists".
Having rejoined I have various local colleagues who are caught up in this mindset. My analysis of why Labour got such a kicking on Teesside is that despite a long-term lack of action to fundamentally change people's lot so many paty members, officials and councillors believed that ONLY Labour could be voted for as the alternative was that people would vote for evil, against their own self-interests, for the bosses. Being able to blow through this absurd world view is Labour's challenge.
Whats more councils are too willing to simply blame the Tories. Thats not a NE phenomenon, look to devolved areas like Wales and Scotland too. Teessiders are proud of their history and heritage, they want to see a vision for what this region can be, not blame for what it has become. That is why people bereft of a brain but in possession of excellent communications advisers like Ben Houchen can prosper. Even when Labour ran all 5 Tees Valley councils they were incapable of even speaking to each other effectively, never mind political strategy and communications.2 -
It's in the guardian so it's ok..now if Toby Young made the same argument...rottenborough said:This. 1000x this.
"Not everyone who instinctively wants the lockdown to be eased as soon as possible is guilty of putting profit before life. It is surely not irresponsible to wonder whether the suspension of everyday existence is not already proving unsustainable, and whether there might come a point when the risks of the virus are outweighed by damage to people’s lives that may prove irreparable."
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/13/millions-lockdown-food-parcels-coronavirus-crisis1 -
On the "why" of 5G lunacy - 5G involves electromagnetic radiation. RADIATION BAD.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. kle4, I'd love to know the mechanism by which people appear to think 5G causes harm.
And how they think the whole world and every medical institution globally is engaged in a conspiracy to pretend a virus exists that apparently does not.
Mr. Meeks, more polling on this would be useful.
Mr. Sandpit, I remember a BBC article warning against reading e-books before bed because the blue light (believe that was the type) of e-readers was harmful to the production of a chemical associated with restful sleep.
Only e-readers don't emit blue light. Tablets and smartphones do, but e-readers are specifically designed to be easy on the eyes.
Although my favourite media moments are the dumb ones. Richard Bilton, reporting on the migrant crisis, remarking that he was surrounded by a large body of water (he was in the Mediterranean). Or Richard Bilton, asking a Greek fireman if the approaching forest fire was dangerous. Or an ITV chap, remarking with great insight that the avalanche went downhill 'powered by gravity'. Cheers, newsman, I was wondering why avalanches didn't go uphill.0 -
Britain has self-isolated itself from the supplies of PPE that the EU has secured. Still, a few dozen dead doctors, nurses and care home assistants are a small price to pay to allow the government to indulge its Europhobia, eh?TGOHF666 said:
Boris could have knocked up a couple of fully automated PPE factories in Slough instead of watching Withnail and I ?AlastairMeeks said:
If, as looks highly likely, less PPE is available in Britain in a couple of weeks’ time than would have been the case if the government had not refused to join this scheme because of Europhobic dogma, it is almost certain that people will die as a result. The people responsible for that decision should be prosecuted.Socky said:
How would this have caused more PPE to be manufactured?AlastairMeeks said:There will be a time when manslaughter charges will need to be considered in relation to the relevant government ministers for this failure:
https://twitter.com/jennifermerode/status/1249950265308000257?s=21
Sure..0 -
You'd be the one squealing loudest of all when it was civil servants who get prosecuted...AlastairMeeks said:
If, as looks highly likely, less PPE is available in Britain in a couple of weeks’ time than would have been the case if the government had not refused to join this scheme because of Europhobic dogma, it is almost certain that people will die as a result. The people responsible for that decision should be prosecuted.Socky said:
How would this have caused more PPE to be manufactured?AlastairMeeks said:There will be a time when manslaughter charges will need to be considered in relation to the relevant government ministers for this failure:
https://twitter.com/jennifermerode/status/1249950265308000257?s=210 -
Indeed, that’s an almighty screwup from the French Air Force.Nigelb said:
Here's one for you...Sandpit said:
Mainstream reporting on aviation is hilarious, there’s usually way more incorrect ‘facts’ than correct ones in reports. Watching them try and understand MCAS was rather amusing, as was them insisting that all the 737NG planes had the same system.Malmesbury said:
The media has hollowed itself out - the internet has allowed loons to pontificate, but it has also revealed the basic lack of knowledge of the world in much of the media.Morris_Dancer said:Confidence in media slumps:
https://twitter.com/jamesjohnson252/status/1249955974271643648
We live in a highly technical world. Lots of detail and facts out there. ArsTechnica carry far better reports on such matters than grace the New York Times, or the London Times.
There are jokes for every technical field such as - https://aviationhumor.net/journalists-guide-to-aircraft-identification/
Journalists have tried to laugh such things off, or pretend that they are not interesting to the general public.
Makes one think about all the other subjects on which I am not as knowledgable, and am supposed to rely on them to inform me!
Man accidentally ejects himself from fighter jet during surprise flight
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/14/man-accidentally-ejects-himself-from-fighter-jet-during-surprise-flight
... made me laugh, too.
If the guy couldn’t cope with the g-force of the takeoff, his body sure as hell wouldn’t have liked the g-force of an ejector seat!
The things people will do for a free tie.0 -
Do you know that it is because they did not have the correct PPE...AlastairMeeks said:
Britain has self-isolated itself from the supplies of PPE that the EU has secured. Still, a few dozen dead doctors, nurses and care home assistants are a small price to pay to allow the government to indulge its Europhobia, eh?TGOHF666 said:
Boris could have knocked up a couple of fully automated PPE factories in Slough instead of watching Withnail and I ?AlastairMeeks said:
If, as looks highly likely, less PPE is available in Britain in a couple of weeks’ time than would have been the case if the government had not refused to join this scheme because of Europhobic dogma, it is almost certain that people will die as a result. The people responsible for that decision should be prosecuted.Socky said:
How would this have caused more PPE to be manufactured?AlastairMeeks said:There will be a time when manslaughter charges will need to be considered in relation to the relevant government ministers for this failure:
https://twitter.com/jennifermerode/status/1249950265308000257?s=21
Sure..0 -
Yep. Ultimately it comes down to a 'you cant prove its NOT harmful' and you just cannot win.Malmesbury said:
On the "why" of 5G lunacy - 5G involves electromagnetic radiation. RADIATION BAD.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. kle4, I'd love to know the mechanism by which people appear to think 5G causes harm.
And how they think the whole world and every medical institution globally is engaged in a conspiracy to pretend a virus exists that apparently does not.
Mr. Meeks, more polling on this would be useful.
Mr. Sandpit, I remember a BBC article warning against reading e-books before bed because the blue light (believe that was the type) of e-readers was harmful to the production of a chemical associated with restful sleep.
Only e-readers don't emit blue light. Tablets and smartphones do, but e-readers are specifically designed to be easy on the eyes.
Although my favourite media moments are the dumb ones. Richard Bilton, reporting on the migrant crisis, remarking that he was surrounded by a large body of water (he was in the Mediterranean). Or Richard Bilton, asking a Greek fireman if the approaching forest fire was dangerous. Or an ITV chap, remarking with great insight that the avalanche went downhill 'powered by gravity'. Cheers, newsman, I was wondering why avalanches didn't go uphill.0 -
This will be interesting to watch.
California, after the US was slow to realise what was happening, was very early with their lockdown (quicker than us, anyway), and probably saved many lives as a result.
Seeing what they do next will be instructive.
West Coast governors announce they will create joint plan for reopening economies
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/492562-west-coast-governors-announce-joint-plan-for-reopening-economies
(This announcement, and a similar one by NE governors, is part of what triggered the latest Trump meltdown.)0 -
Not at all. Anyone responsible for this decision needs to face the consequences of it.MarqueeMark said:
You'd be the one squealing loudest of all when it was civil servants who get prosecuted...AlastairMeeks said:
If, as looks highly likely, less PPE is available in Britain in a couple of weeks’ time than would have been the case if the government had not refused to join this scheme because of Europhobic dogma, it is almost certain that people will die as a result. The people responsible for that decision should be prosecuted.Socky said:
How would this have caused more PPE to be manufactured?AlastairMeeks said:There will be a time when manslaughter charges will need to be considered in relation to the relevant government ministers for this failure:
https://twitter.com/jennifermerode/status/1249950265308000257?s=21
Not noticing too many Leavers speaking up for the need to secure whatever PPE Britain can by whatever means it can. Here’s your opportunity.
But perhaps the visceral hatred of the EU extends to the point of refusing PPE from it even if it would save lives.0 -
Mr. Malmesbury, ah.
That certainly explains why everyone has radiation sickness. Ahem.
I do wonder how anti-vaxxers are doing right now.0 -
When did any EU country receive any supplies through this scheme and your hyperbole pro EU stance is absurdAlastairMeeks said:
If, as looks highly likely, less PPE is available in Britain in a couple of weeks’ time than would have been the case if the government had not refused to join this scheme because of Europhobic dogma, it is almost certain that people will die as a result. The people responsible for that decision should be prosecuted.Socky said:
How would this have caused more PPE to be manufactured?AlastairMeeks said:There will be a time when manslaughter charges will need to be considered in relation to the relevant government ministers for this failure:
https://twitter.com/jennifermerode/status/1249950265308000257?s=21
The UN, WHO and EU have all been pitiful in this crisis and what it has demonstrated is that any country caught in a maelstrom like this will only do what is best for that country, and of course its politicians are accountable to their electorate
Not one person in any of these organisations will face any electoral responsibility for their inadequate responses and then you make some claim that HMG should be on manslaughter charges
Thank goodness we have left the EU and the economic armageddon coming the way of the eurozone countries2 -
John Harris - the Guardian's correspondent from the real world.rottenborough said:This. 1000x this.
"Not everyone who instinctively wants the lockdown to be eased as soon as possible is guilty of putting profit before life. It is surely not irresponsible to wonder whether the suspension of everyday existence is not already proving unsustainable, and whether there might come a point when the risks of the virus are outweighed by damage to people’s lives that may prove irreparable."
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/13/millions-lockdown-food-parcels-coronavirus-crisis1 -
No.edmundintokyo said:
I think you may be mixing me up with somebody else???felix said:
Edmund is only interested in extolling the virtues of a Labour government - everything else is collatoral damage.0 -
The issue with PPE is there is a shortage of manufactured material.AlastairMeeks said:
Not at all. Anyone responsible for this decision needs to face the consequences of it.MarqueeMark said:
You'd be the one squealing loudest of all when it was civil servants who get prosecuted...AlastairMeeks said:
If, as looks highly likely, less PPE is available in Britain in a couple of weeks’ time than would have been the case if the government had not refused to join this scheme because of Europhobic dogma, it is almost certain that people will die as a result. The people responsible for that decision should be prosecuted.Socky said:
How would this have caused more PPE to be manufactured?AlastairMeeks said:There will be a time when manslaughter charges will need to be considered in relation to the relevant government ministers for this failure:
https://twitter.com/jennifermerode/status/1249950265308000257?s=21
Not noticing too many Leavers speaking up for the need to secure whatever PPE Britain can by whatever means it can. Here’s your opportunity.
But perhaps the visceral hatred of the EU extends to the point of refusing PPE from it even if it would save lives.
It is not clear that the EU purchasing scheme can or will change that situation.0 -
.. it would be an improvement on his usual bollocks.Slackbladder said:
It's in the guardian so it's ok..now if Toby Young made the same argument...rottenborough said:This. 1000x this.
"Not everyone who instinctively wants the lockdown to be eased as soon as possible is guilty of putting profit before life. It is surely not irresponsible to wonder whether the suspension of everyday existence is not already proving unsustainable, and whether there might come a point when the risks of the virus are outweighed by damage to people’s lives that may prove irreparable."
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/apr/13/millions-lockdown-food-parcels-coronavirus-crisis
Neither, though, have any convincing suggestions as to the mechanics for ending the lockdown. To be fair, so far the government doesn't seem to, either.0 -
if only they had had special "EU PPE" - which has magical powers to protect against nuclear war etc.squareroot2 said:
Do you know that it is because they did not have the correct PPE...AlastairMeeks said:
Britain has self-isolated itself from the supplies of PPE that the EU has secured. Still, a few dozen dead doctors, nurses and care home assistants are a small price to pay to allow the government to indulge its Europhobia, eh?TGOHF666 said:
Boris could have knocked up a couple of fully automated PPE factories in Slough instead of watching Withnail and I ?AlastairMeeks said:
If, as looks highly likely, less PPE is available in Britain in a couple of weeks’ time than would have been the case if the government had not refused to join this scheme because of Europhobic dogma, it is almost certain that people will die as a result. The people responsible for that decision should be prosecuted.Socky said:
How would this have caused more PPE to be manufactured?AlastairMeeks said:There will be a time when manslaughter charges will need to be considered in relation to the relevant government ministers for this failure:
https://twitter.com/jennifermerode/status/1249950265308000257?s=21
Sure..
0 -
A few dead doctors and nurses are a small price to pay for your slavish devotion to the Conservative party.Big_G_NorthWales said:
When did any EU country receive any supplies through this scheme and your hyperbole pro EU stance is absurdAlastairMeeks said:
If, as looks highly likely, less PPE is available in Britain in a couple of weeks’ time than would have been the case if the government had not refused to join this scheme because of Europhobic dogma, it is almost certain that people will die as a result. The people responsible for that decision should be prosecuted.Socky said:
How would this have caused more PPE to be manufactured?AlastairMeeks said:There will be a time when manslaughter charges will need to be considered in relation to the relevant government ministers for this failure:
https://twitter.com/jennifermerode/status/1249950265308000257?s=21
The UN, WHO and EU have all been pitiful in this crisis and what it has demonstrated is that any country caught in a maelstrom like this will only do what is best for that country, and of course its politicians are accountable to their electorate
Not one person in any of these organisations will face any electoral responsibility for their inadequate responses and then you make some claim that HMG should be on manslaughter charges
Thank goodness we have left the EU and the economic armageddon coming the way of the eurozone countries1 -
Well done Barbour, another company on the growing list of those who have stepped up.Gallowgate said: 1 -
Not quite, I'm not getting targeted ads for the seminal musical work 'f*ck tha police' yet.Cyclefree said:
😀 My role here is done.DecrepiterJohnL said:OT I'm now being shown adverts for plants, owing no doubt to pb's gardening features.
1 -
Pretty well...Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Malmesbury, ah.
That certainly explains why everyone has radiation sickness. Ahem.
I do wonder how anti-vaxxers are doing right now.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/13/science/putin-russia-disinformation-health-coronavirus.html0 -
Where are the life time guaranteed brass zips on this gown?Sandpit said:
Well done Barbour, another company on the growing list of those who have stepped up.Gallowgate said:2 -
Wait - I thought the Uk govt were too tight/lazy/racist to have a PPE procurement strategy ?Sandpit said:
Well done Barbour, another company on the growing list of those who have stepped up.Gallowgate said:
1 -
More a complete lack of belief that any product would actually have come the UK's way. The only evidence I have seen so far is of countries looking after their own. Where you see hatred, others might see cynicism, maybe realism - that the EU would say "They've left - fuck 'em. Give the kit to our people."AlastairMeeks said:
Not at all. Anyone responsible for this decision needs to face the consequences of it.MarqueeMark said:
You'd be the one squealing loudest of all when it was civil servants who get prosecuted...AlastairMeeks said:
If, as looks highly likely, less PPE is available in Britain in a couple of weeks’ time than would have been the case if the government had not refused to join this scheme because of Europhobic dogma, it is almost certain that people will die as a result. The people responsible for that decision should be prosecuted.Socky said:
How would this have caused more PPE to be manufactured?AlastairMeeks said:There will be a time when manslaughter charges will need to be considered in relation to the relevant government ministers for this failure:
https://twitter.com/jennifermerode/status/1249950265308000257?s=21
Not noticing too many Leavers speaking up for the need to secure whatever PPE Britain can by whatever means it can. Here’s your opportunity.
But perhaps the visceral hatred of the EU extends to the point of refusing PPE from it even if it would save lives.1 -
Its not just the government refusing to work with the EU over PPE. There are growing examples being given of companies approaching them to either procure or manufacture ventilators being ignored by the government.0
-
Mr Dancer,
"I do wonder how anti-vaxxers are doing right now."
You're an evil man. They will obviously refuse it, in line with their principles. We could always make the point it was tested on animals.0 -
This is not a crank publicationMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Malmesbury, ah.
That certainly explains why everyone has radiation sickness. Ahem.
I do wonder how anti-vaxxers are doing right now.
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/we-have-no-reason-to-believe-5g-is-safe/
"Citing this large body of research, more than 240 scientists who have published peer-reviewed research on the biologic and health effects of nonionizing electromagnetic fields (EMF) signed the International EMF Scientist Appeal, which calls for stronger exposure limits. The appeal makes the following assertions:
“Numerous recent scientific publications have shown that EMF affects living organisms at levels well below most international and national guidelines. Effects include increased cancer risk, cellular stress, increase in harmful free radicals, genetic damages, structural and functional changes of the reproductive system, learning and memory deficits, neurological disorders, and negative impacts on general well-being in humans. Damage goes well beyond the human race, as there is growing evidence of harmful effects to both plant and animal life.”
The scientists who signed this appeal arguably constitute the majority of experts on the effects of nonionizing radiation. They have published more than 2,000 papers and letters on EMF in professional journals."
5g is more likely than not to be carcinogenic.0 -
Ah, the deranged paranoia of the true Europhobe. When that’s all you’ve got left, the padded cell awaits you.MarqueeMark said:
More a complete lack of belief that any product would actually have come the UK's way. The only evidence I have seen so far is of countries looking after their own. Where you see hatred, others might see cynicism, maybe realism - that the EU would say "They've left - fuck 'em. Give the kit to our people."AlastairMeeks said:
Not at all. Anyone responsible for this decision needs to face the consequences of it.MarqueeMark said:
You'd be the one squealing loudest of all when it was civil servants who get prosecuted...AlastairMeeks said:
If, as looks highly likely, less PPE is available in Britain in a couple of weeks’ time than would have been the case if the government had not refused to join this scheme because of Europhobic dogma, it is almost certain that people will die as a result. The people responsible for that decision should be prosecuted.Socky said:
How would this have caused more PPE to be manufactured?AlastairMeeks said:There will be a time when manslaughter charges will need to be considered in relation to the relevant government ministers for this failure:
https://twitter.com/jennifermerode/status/1249950265308000257?s=21
Not noticing too many Leavers speaking up for the need to secure whatever PPE Britain can by whatever means it can. Here’s your opportunity.
But perhaps the visceral hatred of the EU extends to the point of refusing PPE from it even if it would save lives.0 -
You do know Labour are pro-NHS, right?felix said:
No.edmundintokyo said:
I think you may be mixing me up with somebody else???felix said:
Edmund is only interested in extolling the virtues of a Labour government - everything else is collatoral damage.0 -
On the header - it's a good analysis, but I count myself in the "bored" category with internal party rows. I don't really care if official X tried to frustrate Corbyn or official Y dragged his feet over complaint Z. Anti-semitism is more serious, obviously, and Starmer's first move was good, but it needs the independent investigation to conclude beforer it can be put to bed.
Long-term it's inevitable that there will be a left-wing campaign thatdenounces the leadership - 'twas ever that (even under Corbyn there were some), and a right-wing campaign that wants to purge everyone who ever expressed a liking for Corbyn. TI'm not interested in either of them, and I'm typical in that for most members, let alone voters.2 -
The EU have not secured anything yet and the rest of your comment is just foulAlastairMeeks said:
Britain has self-isolated itself from the supplies of PPE that the EU has secured. Still, a few dozen dead doctors, nurses and care home assistants are a small price to pay to allow the government to indulge its Europhobia, eh?TGOHF666 said:
Boris could have knocked up a couple of fully automated PPE factories in Slough instead of watching Withnail and I ?AlastairMeeks said:
If, as looks highly likely, less PPE is available in Britain in a couple of weeks’ time than would have been the case if the government had not refused to join this scheme because of Europhobic dogma, it is almost certain that people will die as a result. The people responsible for that decision should be prosecuted.Socky said:
How would this have caused more PPE to be manufactured?AlastairMeeks said:There will be a time when manslaughter charges will need to be considered in relation to the relevant government ministers for this failure:
https://twitter.com/jennifermerode/status/1249950265308000257?s=21
Sure..0 -
Not sure about the UN or WHO, particularly the latter, since it's a quasi professional and advisory body, but the EU has an elected Parliament, and the constituent countries do as well.Big_G_NorthWales said:
When did any EU country receive any supplies through this scheme and your hyperbole pro EU stance is absurdAlastairMeeks said:
If, as looks highly likely, less PPE is available in Britain in a couple of weeks’ time than would have been the case if the government had not refused to join this scheme because of Europhobic dogma, it is almost certain that people will die as a result. The people responsible for that decision should be prosecuted.Socky said:
How would this have caused more PPE to be manufactured?AlastairMeeks said:There will be a time when manslaughter charges will need to be considered in relation to the relevant government ministers for this failure:
https://twitter.com/jennifermerode/status/1249950265308000257?s=21
The UN, WHO and EU have all been pitiful in this crisis and what it has demonstrated is that any country caught in a maelstrom like this will only do what is best for that country, and of course its politicians are accountable to their electorate
Not one person in any of these organisations will face any electoral responsibility for their inadequate responses and then you make some claim that HMG should be on manslaughter charges
Thank goodness we have left the EU and the economic armageddon coming the way of the eurozone countries
Germany in particular seems to be managing the situation well, or at least better than many.
And if there is 'economic armageddon' in the EU, it will drag us down too, since it's our biggest trading partner.0 -
Boris has parked his tanks to defend the NHSedmundintokyo said:
You do know Labour are pro-NHS, right?felix said:
No.edmundintokyo said:
I think you may be mixing me up with somebody else???felix said:
Edmund is only interested in extolling the virtues of a Labour government - everything else is collatoral damage.
.0 -
The point I was trying to make was that it is possible that those who leaked the report did so in order to undermine the need for Starmer’s apology by showing that he was apologising to people who had deliberately undermined the previous leader and scuppered the chances of a GE victory.rkrkrk said:I think Cyclefree has unfortunately rather missed the point on this one.
The report certainly doesn't suggest that Starmer's apology was unnecessary - if anything it underlines the need for it, since it is claiming that Labour party officials did not investigate these claims (albeit in order to damage the leader).
As to who benefits: the Tories, obviously, although they will perhaps not wish to focus on it too much at the present time.
But I suspect one reason it was released is because Starmer is choosing his team. Possibly he was considering some of the individuals mentioned in the report.
Trust in the Labour party is going to be in even shorter supply.
1 -
What did you do to stop antisemitism in Labour? You were mates with Corbyn.NickPalmer said:On the header - it's a good analysis, but I count myself in the "bored" category with internal party rows. I don't really care if official X tried to frustrate Corbyn or official Y dragged his feet over complaint Z. Anti-semitism is more serious, obviously, and Starmer's first move was good, but it needs the independent investigation to conclude beforer it can be put to bed.
Long-term it's inevitable that there will be a left-wing campaign thatdenounces the leadership - 'twas ever that (even under Corbyn there were some), and a right-wing campaign that wants to purge everyone who ever expressed a liking for Corbyn. TI'm not interested in either of them, and I'm typical in that for most members, let alone voters.0 -
What is foul is your determination not to criticise a government that has turned down the opportunity to obtain life-saving equipment because it conflicts with its dogma. You’d literally rather see people die than criticise the government.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The EU have not secured anything yet and the rest of your comment is just foulAlastairMeeks said:
Britain has self-isolated itself from the supplies of PPE that the EU has secured. Still, a few dozen dead doctors, nurses and care home assistants are a small price to pay to allow the government to indulge its Europhobia, eh?TGOHF666 said:
Boris could have knocked up a couple of fully automated PPE factories in Slough instead of watching Withnail and I ?AlastairMeeks said:
If, as looks highly likely, less PPE is available in Britain in a couple of weeks’ time than would have been the case if the government had not refused to join this scheme because of Europhobic dogma, it is almost certain that people will die as a result. The people responsible for that decision should be prosecuted.Socky said:
How would this have caused more PPE to be manufactured?AlastairMeeks said:There will be a time when manslaughter charges will need to be considered in relation to the relevant government ministers for this failure:
https://twitter.com/jennifermerode/status/1249950265308000257?s=21
Sure..0 -
If I understand correctly around 0.1% of the population of New York City have already died. Given that figure, it seems surprising the infection rate in that sample is so low.Nigelb said:A very interesting stat from NY.
https://twitter.com/CT_Bergstrom/status/12498364465691811860 -
I’m looking forward to those who oppose the government suggesting, without proper research, that we should make “The NHS” more like Germany’s.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Malmesbury, ah.
That certainly explains why everyone has radiation sickness. Ahem.
I do wonder how anti-vaxxers are doing right now.
https://www.businessinsider.nl/germany-why-coronavirus-death-rate-lower-italy-spain-test-healthcare-2020-3?international=true&r=US1 -
Utter contempt for such an appalling comment.AlastairMeeks said:
A few dead doctors and nurses are a small price to pay for your slavish devotion to the Conservative party.Big_G_NorthWales said:
When did any EU country receive any supplies through this scheme and your hyperbole pro EU stance is absurdAlastairMeeks said:
If, as looks highly likely, less PPE is available in Britain in a couple of weeks’ time than would have been the case if the government had not refused to join this scheme because of Europhobic dogma, it is almost certain that people will die as a result. The people responsible for that decision should be prosecuted.Socky said:
How would this have caused more PPE to be manufactured?AlastairMeeks said:There will be a time when manslaughter charges will need to be considered in relation to the relevant government ministers for this failure:
https://twitter.com/jennifermerode/status/1249950265308000257?s=21
The UN, WHO and EU have all been pitiful in this crisis and what it has demonstrated is that any country caught in a maelstrom like this will only do what is best for that country, and of course its politicians are accountable to their electorate
Not one person in any of these organisations will face any electoral responsibility for their inadequate responses and then you make some claim that HMG should be on manslaughter charges
Thank goodness we have left the EU and the economic armageddon coming the way of the eurozone countries
You have lost all sense of reason floundering on your altar of EU worship
Very sad to witness0 -
If you have enough popcorn to hand, have a read of the twitter replies from the Cult to Jonathan Ashworth.0
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Mr. CD13, au contraire. I am a paragon of virtue.
Mr. Z, that's interesting, and perhaps should affect regulation, but it may end up being like cars. For the sake of convenience and other benefits we accept the increased danger of injury and death.
I do think any serious cause of that nature is being harmed by those claiming that the coronavirus is really caused by 5G.
Thanks for posting that summary, I was unaware of the seemingly serious concerns (unlike the batshit insane nonsense).0 -
I seem to recall something about that in the last 75 years, but it's so subtle its easy to miss.edmundintokyo said:
You do know Labour are pro-NHS, right?felix said:
No.edmundintokyo said:
I think you may be mixing me up with somebody else???felix said:
Edmund is only interested in extolling the virtues of a Labour government - everything else is collatoral damage.2 -
It is an entirely sensible strategy to use Uk based resources to kick start new sources of PPE, tests, ventilators etc.AlastairMeeks said:
Ah, the deranged paranoia of the true Europhobe. When that’s all you’ve got left, the padded cell awaits you.MarqueeMark said:
More a complete lack of belief that any product would actually have come the UK's way. The only evidence I have seen so far is of countries looking after their own. Where you see hatred, others might see cynicism, maybe realism - that the EU would say "They've left - fuck 'em. Give the kit to our people."AlastairMeeks said:
Not at all. Anyone responsible for this decision needs to face the consequences of it.MarqueeMark said:
You'd be the one squealing loudest of all when it was civil servants who get prosecuted...AlastairMeeks said:
If, as looks highly likely, less PPE is available in Britain in a couple of weeks’ time than would have been the case if the government had not refused to join this scheme because of Europhobic dogma, it is almost certain that people will die as a result. The people responsible for that decision should be prosecuted.Socky said:
How would this have caused more PPE to be manufactured?AlastairMeeks said:There will be a time when manslaughter charges will need to be considered in relation to the relevant government ministers for this failure:
https://twitter.com/jennifermerode/status/1249950265308000257?s=21
Not noticing too many Leavers speaking up for the need to secure whatever PPE Britain can by whatever means it can. Here’s your opportunity.
But perhaps the visceral hatred of the EU extends to the point of refusing PPE from it even if it would save lives.
a) Smaller logistics chains.
b) Lower risk from transportation "issues"
c) Higher level of oversight
d) Patriotic boost to productivity.
e) Complete control over supply once established.
A far better use of resources in the long battle ahead than getting a small slice of a one off delivery from China via the EU.
3 -
I agree with some not all of this.MarqueeMark said:
I said since the election - you know, where voters had a chance to judge him as "a mendacious shyster with no personal morality and giant sense of entitlement" or as the PM the wanted. And where, oops for you, he got massive support from the voters.Foxy said:
Dying in a ditch (or not) over the extension.MarqueeMark said:
"a mendacious shyster with no personal morality and giant sense of entitlement"Foxy said:
No, he is still a mendacious shyster with no personal morality and giant sense of entitlement. His brush with death doesn't change that. The sycophancy is nauseating.Mysticrose said:Boris is the new Blairite champion of the soft Left. He has turned from villain to hero. First he savages Margaret Thatcher's individualistic (aka totally selfish) view about society. Then he issues a heartfelt paean to the NHS, championing it as everything that is great about this country.
Marvellous man. The new Tony Blair.
How has that shown itself since he has been elected PM with a majority of 80?
Freeloading Christmas holiday in Mustique
Not obeying his own social distancing rules.
Moving his pregnant mistress into Downing St.
The Leopard hasn't changed his spots.
Dying in a ditch? Prior to the election. And nearly dying in an NHS ward is the only "dying" voters will remember him for.
The holiday was a place going empty if he hadn't gone there. The value was declared on the register. Jeez, if that is on the charge sheet, Plod really doesn't have a case.
I think most people see Carrie as his fiance, rather than your huffy Victorian tones of "his pregnant mistress". Get in the twenty first century.
Not obeying the social distancing rules? Maybe he didn't. Maybe Westminster was just a heaving pit of the virus. Maybe Nadine breathed on him at a buffet. Or Barnier. Whatever, he's certainly a totemic example now for why we must obey the rules.
She is his fiancée - one of the few gendered words in the English language.
She is his blond(e) fiancé(e)0 -
And not or.TGOHF666 said:
It is an entirely sensible strategy to use Uk based resources to kick start new sources of PPE, tests, ventilators etc.AlastairMeeks said:
Ah, the deranged paranoia of the true Europhobe. When that’s all you’ve got left, the padded cell awaits you.MarqueeMark said:
More a complete lack of belief that any product would actually have come the UK's way. The only evidence I have seen so far is of countries looking after their own. Where you see hatred, others might see cynicism, maybe realism - that the EU would say "They've left - fuck 'em. Give the kit to our people."AlastairMeeks said:
Not at all. Anyone responsible for this decision needs to face the consequences of it.MarqueeMark said:
You'd be the one squealing loudest of all when it was civil servants who get prosecuted...AlastairMeeks said:
If, as looks highly likely, less PPE is available in Britain in a couple of weeks’ time than would have been the case if the government had not refused to join this scheme because of Europhobic dogma, it is almost certain that people will die as a result. The people responsible for that decision should be prosecuted.Socky said:
How would this have caused more PPE to be manufactured?AlastairMeeks said:There will be a time when manslaughter charges will need to be considered in relation to the relevant government ministers for this failure:
https://twitter.com/jennifermerode/status/1249950265308000257?s=21
Not noticing too many Leavers speaking up for the need to secure whatever PPE Britain can by whatever means it can. Here’s your opportunity.
But perhaps the visceral hatred of the EU extends to the point of refusing PPE from it even if it would save lives.
a) Smaller logistics chains.
b) Lower risk from transportation "issues"
c) Higher level of oversight
d) Patriotic boost to productivity.
e) Complete control over supply once established.
A far better use of resources in the long battle ahead than getting a small slice of a one off delivery from China via the EU.
This was always going to be an almighty struggle. The government chose to make it worse on ideological grounds. As a result of that choice, people will almost certainly die.0 -
Isn't his wife involved in this report somewhere ?rottenborough said:If you have enough popcorn to hand, have a read of the twitter replies from the Cult to Jonathan Ashworth.
0 -
I thought the French Princess was a couple of months afterwards, hence Elizabeth’s comment? But as with all royal marriages it was a political game - and the crown of England was the prize.ydoethur said:@Charles
My understanding of Philip’s proposal to Elizabeth (and it should be noted I am not an expert on this) is that it was extremely half-hearted and done more as a possible way of trying to keep England within Catholicism than anything else. Even at the time he made his offer he was negotiating to marry a French princess which doesn’t suggest enthusiasm.
Thank you for the information about your 9x great grandfather, who was clearly not a wide man.
To hang out with Abigail Masham (I assume you know how her enemy portrayed her) you had to have a wide understanding of the world!0 -
I'm showing a damn sight more measured argument than you today Mr. Meeks. Retirement not suiting you, it seems....AlastairMeeks said:
Ah, the deranged paranoia of the true Europhobe. When that’s all you’ve got left, the padded cell awaits you.MarqueeMark said:
More a complete lack of belief that any product would actually have come the UK's way. The only evidence I have seen so far is of countries looking after their own. Where you see hatred, others might see cynicism, maybe realism - that the EU would say "They've left - fuck 'em. Give the kit to our people."AlastairMeeks said:
Not at all. Anyone responsible for this decision needs to face the consequences of it.MarqueeMark said:
You'd be the one squealing loudest of all when it was civil servants who get prosecuted...AlastairMeeks said:
If, as looks highly likely, less PPE is available in Britain in a couple of weeks’ time than would have been the case if the government had not refused to join this scheme because of Europhobic dogma, it is almost certain that people will die as a result. The people responsible for that decision should be prosecuted.Socky said:
How would this have caused more PPE to be manufactured?AlastairMeeks said:There will be a time when manslaughter charges will need to be considered in relation to the relevant government ministers for this failure:
https://twitter.com/jennifermerode/status/1249950265308000257?s=21
Not noticing too many Leavers speaking up for the need to secure whatever PPE Britain can by whatever means it can. Here’s your opportunity.
But perhaps the visceral hatred of the EU extends to the point of refusing PPE from it even if it would save lives.2 -
He's baaaaaaaack.......
Cummings returns to work today in Downing Street.1
