politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The NHS “army of volunteers” could be a Cummings masterstroke
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Doesnt sound like an essential task to me.....FrancisUrquhart said:North Yorkshire Police has said it will use checkpoints to stop vehicles and ask drivers if their journey is essential during the lockdown.
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The young grow old and wiser Malcmalcolmg said:
I doubt the vote will split and it is really only a matter of time, G is completely wrong. It is only people of his era holding it up, the young are massively in favour so clock is ticking.Big_G_NorthWales said:
There will not be indy.kinabalu said:
It will be interesting what becomes of the SNP once the goal of independence is achieved. At the moment they are able to secure the votes of people with very different politics - e.g. our own @malcolmg and @Theuniondivvie who I sense from their posts are right and left (of centre) respectively - drawn together by a shared belief that Scotland does not belong in the UK. Such people, and there must be loads, will probably not be voting for the same party post indy.ydoethur said:If there was a split - which, I am honest, I do not expect there to be - the more dangerous scenario would be the two sides splitting the Nationalist vote (which let us not forget, is a minority of the overall electorate) and letting Unionist candidates through the middle.
But my suspicion is all that will happen is a lot of damaging mud slinging, which may topple Sturgeon and cost the SNP ten seats next year but would not be fatal to it. Ultimately, there are huge policy differences over just about everything in the SNP - Europe, Education, Health, Policing - but because they all want independence everything else is secondary. This will just be another sore.
Covid 19 is terminal for indy1 -
Same here in south Devon. Quiet as the, er......rottenborough said:
Oldies around me and mate's parents all seem to be locked down.FrancisUrquhart said:
Well my presumption was that the vast majority of oldies were taking the sensible steps such as my parents and yourself. I really hope the experience I report is just an isolated incident.bigjohnowls said:
2 oldies in this house not been out for 8 days.FrancisUrquhart said:
Unfortunately, I think we are soon going to be regularly seeing triple digit numbers. Especially if my parents experience is widespread, where oldies aren't listening to the government advice one little bit.bigjohnowls said:
You are right it's only a 1 day phenomenon.FrancisUrquhart said:
I don't believe so. Do you ever have to give permission to appear in anonymous health stats? And GDPR rules have been suspended for certain things.bigjohnowls said:
I wasnt going to mention that.FrancisUrquhart said:So from twitter, we are now to take it that the government are fiddling the figures like the Chinese...is that correct?
Is it true that families need to give permission for victims to appear in the stats from yesterday.
I cant believe that's true has to be twitter bollocks.
And even if it was, I don't understand the logic of the twitter conspiracy theory....all that happens is the deaths get announced today, rather than yesterday. So it all ends up in the total.
Crossed fingers todays new deaths stay in double figures.
Majority I think are on lockdown but not all.0 -
And misled.Charles said:
You are making a mistake to think of 'low-information' voters as "thick".OllyT said:
Criticism of the WHO pales into insignificance compared to Trump's actions and comments over the last month. Look at the tweets he was making a few weeks ago which were being widely circulated again yesterday. In any other country he would be politically dead by now. Sadly his supporters are mainly low-information (aka thick) and have no real idea of the severity of the problems they are facing. They will shortly.TGOHF666 said:
And Trump will blame the WHO - perhaps with some merit.MarqueeMark said:
The WHO will confirm the epicentre of the virus has moved from Europe to the USA. When much of the rest of the world is seeing the light, America will still be descending into isolation.Nigelb said:
I don’t think it will be all that long until they are reporting more new cases than the rest of the world.CrispyRendang said:MikeL said:If the last 24 hours are repeated then the US will go top of the table (for cases) above China and Italy in 24 hours from now.
Re Trump approval - I do get the sense that most people in the US currently have no idea of the scale of the virus. It is surely going to be a very big moment and a shock to most Americans when they hear the US is top of the table.
Obviously deaths trail cases, but USA is still at 3 deaths/1M, which is the same as South Korea, half the UK rate, and 1/40 of the Italian figure.
Daily deaths are around 0.75/1M. Italy has had more than 10 deaths/1M for the last six days, also 10+ in Spain since 3 days.
Countries closer to Spain/Italian levels than the US include the Netherlands (5/1M daily) and France (4/1M).
Some parts of the US are at similar levels, notably Louisana (4/1M/day), and I believe New York City (where the cases are concentrated, not the rural regions) is close to 10/1M/day, although clearly still short of Lombardy levels.
So at the moment the US is far from top of the table, and attention still focused on blue New York. Time will come, but the virus is a way behind Europe in the US.
And then, perhaps, America will ask "How did this happen?"
They are, perhaps, poorly-educated and incurious. But not thick.0 -
Badly.squareroot2 said:
You obviously have no idea how Govt works.OldKingCole said:
Johnson or Corbyn. Hmm. Tough one. John McDonnell as Chancellor, not so much. As Mr Pioneers seems to be pointing out, so far Sunak is all promise and little performance.RochdalePioneers said:
As a foaming at the month anti-Tory ideologue I am very happy Johnson is PM and not Corbyn (right again HYUFD). This isn't about the last election or what people think or even politics.OldKingCole said:
Lots of people don't believe Johnson believes what he says or says what he believes.felix said:Labour tried the 'tories f*** business' thing last December - can't recall how it worked out for them..
This is about survival.
The government clearly recognises there is a Massive Problem. It has proffered £330bn "and more if required" of guaranteed loans with no interest for 12 months. It has pledged to pay 80% of furloughed wages with literal unlimited amounts of cash available. It - Sunak - Gets It.
In practice however there is also a Massive Problem. The guaranteed loans with zero interest are not available to most and with daft rates of interest if they are. The wage payment doesn't yet exist. Companies can't even offer to furlough wages as it can't get the cash due to the government closing them down and the banks not playing ball.
Politics doesn't matter right now. We need an immediate solution to an immediate problem. The government on the phone to bank CEOs instructing them to throw government cash about to their customers. Today. If wages are to be paid then hand over the cash. If loans are to be made then hand over the cash. Otherwise its just hot air. And a significant part of our economy collapses. And people find themselves personally ruined. Which makes population management that much harder.
And thats saying nothing about the self employed or businesses who operate inside someone else's premises or people renting from fuck you landlords or people being forced to work regardless of them literally being a walking viral bomb.
Cash. Now. Or people die.1 -
Been doing this in Devon since Tuesday.FrancisUrquhart said:North Yorkshire Police has said it will use checkpoints to stop vehicles and ask drivers if their journey is essential during the lockdown.
But the weather has been lovely.0 -
You're right that "low information" does not necessarily mean thick. You can be ignorant and bright. Many people are. I'd say that I am.Charles said:You are making a mistake to think of 'low-information' voters as "thick".
They are, perhaps, poorly-educated and incurious. But not thick.
But the Trump "base" are almost certainly both. Least the vast majority.1 -
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Idiot...it depends where you are in terms of spread. Bill Gates explained this very clearly last night. Once you get past a certain level of community spread, shutdown is the only way to reduce transmission right down at the moment and then you can release the valve a bit and use test / trace.HYUFD said:twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1243093997285003269?s=20
South Korea have so far done amazingly well and stopped widespread transmission ever starting, so didn't need to go to lockdown. Europe by nature of more open borders, less advanced testing regimes, and by the looks of it there being a big cluster in Northern Italy that went undetected for many weeks, start from a different position.0 -
Perhaps the ones we should be most concerned about are getting high amounts of low quality information. That is a new phenomenon. Voters with low amounts of information have been around for ever without creating havoc.OldKingCole said:
And misled.Charles said:
You are making a mistake to think of 'low-information' voters as "thick".OllyT said:
Criticism of the WHO pales into insignificance compared to Trump's actions and comments over the last month. Look at the tweets he was making a few weeks ago which were being widely circulated again yesterday. In any other country he would be politically dead by now. Sadly his supporters are mainly low-information (aka thick) and have no real idea of the severity of the problems they are facing. They will shortly.TGOHF666 said:
And Trump will blame the WHO - perhaps with some merit.MarqueeMark said:
The WHO will confirm the epicentre of the virus has moved from Europe to the USA. When much of the rest of the world is seeing the light, America will still be descending into isolation.Nigelb said:
I don’t think it will be all that long until they are reporting more new cases than the rest of the world.CrispyRendang said:MikeL said:If the last 24 hours are repeated then the US will go top of the table (for cases) above China and Italy in 24 hours from now.
Re Trump approval - I do get the sense that most people in the US currently have no idea of the scale of the virus. It is surely going to be a very big moment and a shock to most Americans when they hear the US is top of the table.
Obviously deaths trail cases, but USA is still at 3 deaths/1M, which is the same as South Korea, half the UK rate, and 1/40 of the Italian figure.
Daily deaths are around 0.75/1M. Italy has had more than 10 deaths/1M for the last six days, also 10+ in Spain since 3 days.
Countries closer to Spain/Italian levels than the US include the Netherlands (5/1M daily) and France (4/1M).
Some parts of the US are at similar levels, notably Louisana (4/1M/day), and I believe New York City (where the cases are concentrated, not the rural regions) is close to 10/1M/day, although clearly still short of Lombardy levels.
So at the moment the US is far from top of the table, and attention still focused on blue New York. Time will come, but the virus is a way behind Europe in the US.
And then, perhaps, America will ask "How did this happen?"
They are, perhaps, poorly-educated and incurious. But not thick.1 -
Two of those "Countries" are city states, a third has seen a marked jump in cases the day after they postponed the Olympics and the fourth, Korea has done well, but has tested very extensively, more than anyone (except the US, as of yesterday, as Trump never tires of reminding us).HYUFD said:0 -
His assessment based on the "most successful countries" of Japan, Singapore, Kong Kong, South Korea may yet be another candidate for being bitten on the arse by Covid-19.....HYUFD said:0 -
If any journalists are reading this thread, put down the twitter machine, go watch Bill Gates for an hour, plus Khan Academy and Numberphile videos on this, you will learn more in that 90 mins than you will do on social media in a month. And then perhaps you can properly inform the public.0
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Re the debate between the 2 approaches - Lockdown 20k Deaths vs Herd Immunity 250k Deaths - perhaps we will end up with a blend of both.TGOHF666 said:We are going to be back at work in a month or less.
Now. Lockdown. Flatten peak.
After. Vulnerable remain "shielded" whilst the rest of us get out and about again.2 -
The especially curious thing is that Japan has barely done any testing at all - literally a quarter the UK numbers, for near double the population.MarqueeMark said:
His assessment based on the "most successful countries" of Japan, Singapore, Kong Kong, South Korea may yet be another candidate for being bitten on the arse by Covid-19.....
Feels like there's a lot we don't know about this virus still.
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Initial worst case scenarios of 12-18 months of lockdown look overblown now.kinabalu said:
Re the debate between the 2 approaches - Lockdown 20k Deaths vs Herd Immunity 250k Deaths - it could well be that we end up with a blend of both.TGOHF666 said:We are going to be back at work in a month or less.
Now. Lockdown. Flatten peak.
After. Vulnerable remain "shielded" whilst the rest get out and about again.
Better to over than under react I guess.0 -
Stocky ... aptly named methinks!Stocky said:
Yes, I thought of that too. We've started padlocking the door to our outside barn which houses two freezers full of food. Crime wave coming I predict. If this proves correct and similarly happens in the States it will be like the Wild West out there, with their guns n` stuff.nichomar said:So when will we get first reports of supermarket home delivery vans being hijacked?
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I only heard about this this morning. I think it's probably more relevant than SARSNigelb said:
Not so much - there have always been questions about Japan.felix said:
Yup - not so long since it and others were hailed as so much better than the UK efforts.Nigelb said:We’ve all been wondering what next in Japan.
https://twitter.com/RamyInocencio/status/1243036560049741824
The exemplars in prompt response have been Taiwan, Singapore, South Korea. And possibly China, once they realised what they had (though everything reported from there has to be treated with a degree of caution).
They were, of course, countries directly affected by the SARS outbreak, and planned accordingly.
https://www.who.int/westernpacific/emergencies/2015-mers-outbreak0 -
Seeing the Excel centre getting prepped and the NEC / G-Mex next up, I don't think we should be optimistic yet. Neil Ferguson was talking about the NHS just about coping, with the presumption all the government measures are working as planned (i.e ~90% sticking to them) and that all the extra capacity is coming online.kinabalu said:
Re the debate between the 2 approaches - Lockdown 20k Deaths vs Herd Immunity 250k Deaths - perhaps we will end up with a blend of both.TGOHF666 said:We are going to be back at work in a month or less.
Now. Lockdown. Flatten peak.
After. Vulnerable remain "shielded" whilst the rest of us get out and about again.
I have to say I am a bit concerned about the talk these 10,000 Dyson Ventilators are going to take weeks before they even start bashing them out. I thought the whole point of the government call was to get something that could be mass produced really quickly and easily.2 -
That's cos the previous day was the 1pm figures, then they reverted to the normal 9am. That's happened a few times.CarlottaVance said:The DHSC admitted they weren't publishing the full 24 hours yesterday:
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Personal guarantees are something quite different.HYUFD said:
What loans do not come with guarantees?RochdalePioneers said:LBC reporting the likes of HSBC and Lloyds charging <12% interest and personal guarantees on government backed business interruption loans.
Another triumph for HYUFD!</p>
They pierce the corporate veil.
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The rapid tests, manufactured by the Chinese company Bioeasy, based in Shenzhen, one of the technological poles of the Asian country , have a sensitivity of 30%, when it should be above 80%, these sources indicate.TGOHF666 said:twitter.com/MacaesBruno/status/1243134029928554496?s=20
You would be better flipping coins.0 -
Quite. His expectations, whoever the Govt might be are far too high. Labour has been doing this sort of criticism in opposition since 2010, full knowing it would have been much worse.. because they always are. Look at the Opposition front bench ffs.ydoethur said:
Badly.squareroot2 said:
You obviously have no idea how Govt works.OldKingCole said:
Johnson or Corbyn. Hmm. Tough one. John McDonnell as Chancellor, not so much. As Mr Pioneers seems to be pointing out, so far Sunak is all promise and little performance.RochdalePioneers said:
As a foaming at the month anti-Tory ideologue I am very happy Johnson is PM and not Corbyn (right again HYUFD). This isn't about the last election or what people think or even politics.OldKingCole said:
Lots of people don't believe Johnson believes what he says or says what he believes.felix said:Labour tried the 'tories f*** business' thing last December - can't recall how it worked out for them..
This is about survival.
The government clearly recognises there is a Massive Problem. It has proffered £330bn "and more if required" of guaranteed loans with no interest for 12 months. It has pledged to pay 80% of furloughed wages with literal unlimited amounts of cash available. It - Sunak - Gets It.
In practice however there is also a Massive Problem. The guaranteed loans with zero interest are not available to most and with daft rates of interest if they are. The wage payment doesn't yet exist. Companies can't even offer to furlough wages as it can't get the cash due to the government closing them down and the banks not playing ball.
Politics doesn't matter right now. We need an immediate solution to an immediate problem. The government on the phone to bank CEOs instructing them to throw government cash about to their customers. Today. If wages are to be paid then hand over the cash. If loans are to be made then hand over the cash. Otherwise its just hot air. And a significant part of our economy collapses. And people find themselves personally ruined. Which makes population management that much harder.
And thats saying nothing about the self employed or businesses who operate inside someone else's premises or people renting from fuck you landlords or people being forced to work regardless of them literally being a walking viral bomb.
Cash. Now. Or people die.0 -
A lockdown of that length was never to my mind feasible. The economic and social damage would be too great. And in any case people would not comply for that long. You would need the police and army to enforce it. This is a horrible virus but it's not bad enough to warrant the infliction of a "brother can you spare a dime?" slump and a police state.TGOHF666 said:Initial worst case scenarios of 12-18 months of lockdown look overblown now.
Better to over than under react I guess.1 -
Aggressive testing and Japan in same sentence ....... hmmmMarqueeMark said:
His assessment based on the "most successful countries" of Japan, Singapore, Kong Kong, South Korea may yet be another candidate for being bitten on the arse by Covid-19.....HYUFD said:0 -
Extraordinary. Surely the answer will in most cases be "I am going to work".FrancisUrquhart said:North Yorkshire Police has said it will use checkpoints to stop vehicles and ask drivers if their journey is essential during the lockdown.
A lot of people seem to have got the impression that the government guidance is only key workers should go to work. It is not. millions cannot work from home so they should still go to work, and are doing. Have quite a few people who had this misunderstanding at my workplace earlier in the week but it's clear now.2 -
I'm concerned about the supermarket delivery priority lists. I'm not in the 1.5 million who need the most extreme shielding. But I'm a wheelchair user, living alone, no car, no local support networks. My only feasible source of food, other than deliveries, is shoulder-wrenching frequent trips to the corner shop (which has a lip on the door making entry in a wheelchair very difficult at the best of times) to buy what little I can carry each time, putting me and others at risk. I'm not even sure if the corner shop is open or has stock, actually.
I am lucky in that I booked Tesco deliveries for two and three weeks out, while they were still available. I fervently hope that they are not cancelled. And if the lockdown is still in effect after that then I will be using up cupboard stores. I always keep a decent amount in stock so that keeps me going for another little while, albeit without fresh food. But after that...?
I wish the supermarkets would be quicker off the mark, and not limit themselves to the government list. Those 1.5 million have first priority, of course, but supermarkets do a lot more deliveries than that.
--AS5 -
Anybody who has ever bought a Chinese turbo (aka a Shenzen Spinny Boi) off eBay could have predicted that.TGOHF666 said:0 -
Well thatd be one way for Boris to pay attention.tlg86 said:
Not as good as the child placed strategically in a government red box.RobD said:
Is this another case of Boris derangement syndrome?FF43 said:Fascinating photos. The Johnson one is clearly staged: the strategically placed Union flags, the red dispatch box placed towards the camera and the wrong way for Johnson actually to open the thing. Johnson standing with his hands as if he's just grabbing a moment from solving the nation's problems.
I would have said the photo of the Queen seems more genuine. Perhaps that's how she does phone conversations. But then I see the strategically placed pots of homemade jam on the table and wonder. Maybe the Queen just does the authenticity thing better.
https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1242896686122504192
Flags strategically placed? Come on.
https://i.ndtvimg.com/i/2016-07/florence-cameron_650x400_61468498710.jpg
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It depends where these road blocks are doing. If it is to stop people doing day trips to the Yorkshire Dales, and the plod asks you where you work.JonCisBack said:
Extraordinary. Surely the answer will in most cases be "I am going to work".FrancisUrquhart said:North Yorkshire Police has said it will use checkpoints to stop vehicles and ask drivers if their journey is essential during the lockdown.
A lot of people seem to have got the impression that the government guidance is only key workers should go to work. It is not. millions cannot work from home so they should still go to work, and are doing. Have quite a few people who had this misunderstanding at my workplace earlier in the week but it's clear now.0 -
In one of the Press Conferences when an expert was talking about the growth of cases in New York, Trump interjected "Is that the governor's fault?" He was ignored.Charles said:
May be blame the Democrats in NY?egg said:Having talked up the great resumption, can Trump actually back track and flip flop on it now? Without paying huge in credibility?
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If you don't bother to inform yourself during a pandemic when your own life is at risk then that qualifies as thick in my book, sorryCharles said:
You are making a mistake to think of 'low-information' voters as "thick".OllyT said:
Criticism of the WHO pales into insignificance compared to Trump's actions and comments over the last month. Look at the tweets he was making a few weeks ago which were being widely circulated again yesterday. In any other country he would be politically dead by now. Sadly his supporters are mainly low-information (aka thick) and have no real idea of the severity of the problems they are facing. They will shortly.TGOHF666 said:
And Trump will blame the WHO - perhaps with some merit.MarqueeMark said:
The WHO will confirm the epicentre of the virus has moved from Europe to the USA. When much of the rest of the world is seeing the light, America will still be descending into isolation.Nigelb said:
I don’t think it will be all that long until they are reporting more new cases than the rest of the world.CrispyRendang said:MikeL said:If the last 24 hours are repeated then the US will go top of the table (for cases) above China and Italy in 24 hours from now.
Re Trump approval - I do get the sense that most people in the US currently have no idea of the scale of the virus. It is surely going to be a very big moment and a shock to most Americans when they hear the US is top of the table.
Obviously deaths trail cases, but USA is still at 3 deaths/1M, which is the same as South Korea, half the UK rate, and 1/40 of the Italian figure.
Daily deaths are around 0.75/1M. Italy has had more than 10 deaths/1M for the last six days, also 10+ in Spain since 3 days.
Countries closer to Spain/Italian levels than the US include the Netherlands (5/1M daily) and France (4/1M).
Some parts of the US are at similar levels, notably Louisana (4/1M/day), and I believe New York City (where the cases are concentrated, not the rural regions) is close to 10/1M/day, although clearly still short of Lombardy levels.
So at the moment the US is far from top of the table, and attention still focused on blue New York. Time will come, but the virus is a way behind Europe in the US.
And then, perhaps, America will ask "How did this happen?"
They are, perhaps, poorly-educated and incurious. But not thick.0 -
Do you know the terms of that arrangement?FF43 said:
It would also be sensible to take up the UK's allocation of the EU's procurement. Guaranteed delivery of a proven product in two weeks time. If you don't need it, you can sell or pass it on.Benpointer said:"Dyson gets order to produce 10,000 newly-designed ventilators for NHS" according to the Guardian.
I hope they are also going to place an order with Ventilator Challenge UK too - wouldn't want to see us putting all our eggs in one untested basket.
If it was without strings then I am very sceptical that the government would not take it up.
Why do you think they did?
"Brexit ideology" is not a credible response.0 -
'Buying bread and milk while avoiding stockpiling or panic buying' seems a pretty decent answer for all local cases.JonCisBack said:
Extraordinary. Surely the answer will in most cases be "I am going to work".FrancisUrquhart said:North Yorkshire Police has said it will use checkpoints to stop vehicles and ask drivers if their journey is essential during the lockdown.
A lot of people seem to have got the impression that the government guidance is only key workers should go to work. It is not. millions cannot work from home so they should still go to work, and are doing. Have quite a few people who had this misunderstanding at my workplace earlier in the week but it's clear now.
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I agree entirely.kinabalu said:
Nothing at all. In fact it's hard to come up with a sweeter notion.noneoftheabove said:Whats wrong with dinosaurs having shown kindness to each other!?
But @Richard_Tyndall was making a point about human civilization that I for one wish to embrace fully.
I was perhaps being unnecessarily pedantic. There's plenty of other evidence in prehistory for groups looking after infirm members of the tribe.1 -
US not Uk..AlastairMeeks said:0 -
This is PB. Nothing is unnecessarily pedantic so long as we dont lose sight of the key pointNigelb said:
I agree entirely.kinabalu said:
Nothing at all. In fact it's hard to come up with a sweeter notion.noneoftheabove said:Whats wrong with dinosaurs having shown kindness to each other!?
But @Richard_Tyndall was making a point about human civilization that I for one wish to embrace fully.
I was perhaps being unnecessarily pedantic. There's plenty of other evidence in prehistory for groups looking after infirm members of the tribe. 1 -
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Is there any sort of ban on members of a household going for a scenic drive, carefully avoiding hot spots and honeypots, perhaps on their way to their daily exercise or walking the dog?FrancisUrquhart said:
It depends where these road blocks are doing. If it is to stop people doing day trips to the Yorkshire Dales, and the plod asks you where you work.JonCisBack said:
Extraordinary. Surely the answer will in most cases be "I am going to work".FrancisUrquhart said:North Yorkshire Police has said it will use checkpoints to stop vehicles and ask drivers if their journey is essential during the lockdown.
A lot of people seem to have got the impression that the government guidance is only key workers should go to work. It is not. millions cannot work from home so they should still go to work, and are doing. Have quite a few people who had this misunderstanding at my workplace earlier in the week but it's clear now.
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I am afraid that lots of people are seeing this as a free paid holiday, we cannot get any of our operatives to work as they say they are following Governemnet advice and its too dangerous for them to go out.JonCisBack said:
Extraordinary. Surely the answer will in most cases be "I am going to work".FrancisUrquhart said:North Yorkshire Police has said it will use checkpoints to stop vehicles and ask drivers if their journey is essential during the lockdown.
A lot of people seem to have got the impression that the government guidance is only key workers should go to work. It is not. millions cannot work from home so they should still go to work, and are doing. Have quite a few people who had this misunderstanding at my workplace earlier in the week but it's clear now.0 -
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This is a major reason why this crisis will last much longer....lack of clarity...JonCisBack said:
Extraordinary. Surely the answer will in most cases be "I am going to work".FrancisUrquhart said:North Yorkshire Police has said it will use checkpoints to stop vehicles and ask drivers if their journey is essential during the lockdown.
A lot of people seem to have got the impression that the government guidance is only key workers should go to work. It is not. millions cannot work from home so they should still go to work, and are doing. Have quite a few people who had this misunderstanding at my workplace earlier in the week but it's clear now.
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He's holding out for the 20% service charge.Stocky said:
He doesn`t need to does he? Gov pay 80% of their salaries, right?FrancisUrquhart said:Another one to add to the list...
Rick Stein has refused to to pay his workers’ wages for over a month while his restaurants are closed.0 -
Tunnocks come up with a zinc boosting teacake ?CarlottaVance said:Nicola Press Conference:
https://twitter.com/scotgov/status/1243154410672357379?s=20
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Agreed.Anabobazina said:To pick up Rochdale's point, I think there is a serious issue brewing with getting the cash out to businesses. The loan terms are onerous (at some banks, others are better) so it's hard to see how the billions are going to get out there in time. Not sure why the government has allowed the banks to set their own terms – that's not workable.
Re: furlough, great scheme in theory but the end of April is not soon enough. Sunak has the ideas but he needs to get on top of the execution.
It's fine to criticise Rick Stein and the rest, but if there is zero cash coming in to businesses, and they don't know when the furlough money is going to start, what are they to do if they don't have the cash (as many won't) ?0 -
As these are emergency loans to otherwise viable businesses and, crucially, backed by a guarantee from the government to the bank that they will underwrite it, should not the interest rate be about 2-3%?Charles said:
Personal guarantees are something quite different.HYUFD said:
What loans do not come with guarantees?RochdalePioneers said:LBC reporting the likes of HSBC and Lloyds charging <12% interest and personal guarantees on government backed business interruption loans.
Another triumph for HYUFD!</p>
They pierce the corporate veil.
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Interesting insight into how the Johnsonian elite thinks the epidemic will impact government policy. Notable hostility towards China. I think Huawei will be pushed out of UK 5G. This is totemic. More difficult, I think, on a broader scale. Will an economically stressed UK reject trading relationships with China? Also China is the biggest potential Brexit win. If Europe is excluded on ideological grounds and the USA is proving unreliable that basically leaves "Global Britain", with China as the remaining major potential strategic partner.
https://twitter.com/JGForsyth/status/12431074621625466881 -
The UK government has taken considerable steps to keep people in employment. It is one of the major points to its credit.eadric said:
And Norway: identically horrible unemployment figuresAlastairMeeks said:
https://twitter.com/cfbjerknes/status/1242443544398376961?s=20
Unless there is a remarkable V shaped recovery, this looks like the Great Depression 2.00 -
Prediction for when Trump utters the line "No one mentioned Easter. The only people talking about Easter were the Democrats and you the Lamestream media!"1
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The reason is not lack of clarity, it is the stupidity of the thickos who wilfully refuse to heed the Govt advice about going out.tyson said:
This is a major reason why this crisis will last much longer....lack of clarity...JonCisBack said:
Extraordinary. Surely the answer will in most cases be "I am going to work".FrancisUrquhart said:North Yorkshire Police has said it will use checkpoints to stop vehicles and ask drivers if their journey is essential during the lockdown.
A lot of people seem to have got the impression that the government guidance is only key workers should go to work. It is not. millions cannot work from home so they should still go to work, and are doing. Have quite a few people who had this misunderstanding at my workplace earlier in the week but it's clear now.0 -
"Biggest Brexit win"FF43 said:Interesting insight into how the Johnsonian elite thinks the epidemic will impact government policy. Notable hostility towards China. I think Huawei will be pushed out of UK 5G. This is totemic. More difficult, I think, on a broader scale. Will an economically stressed UK reject trading relationships with China? Also China is the biggest potential Brexit win. If Europe is excluded on ideological grounds and the USA is proving unreliable that basically leaves "Global Britain", with China as the remaining major potential strategic partner.
https://twitter.com/JGForsyth/status/1243107462162546688
China may not be in a position to buy our luxury cars n Scotch.
Neither will Italy or Spain mind you - EU membership post Covid would have been very expensive for the Uk.1 -
Mr. Singing, hope everything works out ok. Whereabouts are you?1
-
hope they are practicing social distancing!Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky reporting 7 Russian naval ships being shadowed by the RN in the channel and north sea
0 -
They'll mostly just chew on their zinc bath.....TGOHF666 said:
Tunnocks come up with a zinc boosting teacake ?CarlottaVance said:Nicola Press Conference:
https://twitter.com/scotgov/status/1243154410672357379?s=200 -
That explains their numbers.TGOHF666 said:0 -
Surely we will reconsider whether being so reliant on China for various essentials is wise. APIs, PPE etc...FF43 said:Interesting insight into how the Johnsonian elite thinks the epidemic will impact government policy. Notable hostility towards China. I think Huawei will be pushed out of UK 5G. This is totemic. More difficult, I think, on a broader scale. Will an economically stressed UK reject trading relationships with China? Also China is the biggest potential Brexit win. If Europe is excluded on ideological grounds and the USA is proving unreliable that basically leaves "Global Britain", with China as the remaining major potential strategic partner.
https://twitter.com/JGForsyth/status/12431074621625466881 -
Is there some other kind of lawyer that we haven't heard about?CarlottaVance said:0 -
If you are in the vulnerable group you shouldn't go out period. Otherwise, still no, you shouldn't be making unnecessary trips out of the house. The advice is very clear.algarkirk said:
Is there any sort of ban on members of a household going for a scenic drive, carefully avoiding hot spots and honeypots, perhaps on their way to their daily exercise or walking the dog?FrancisUrquhart said:
It depends where these road blocks are doing. If it is to stop people doing day trips to the Yorkshire Dales, and the plod asks you where you work.JonCisBack said:
Extraordinary. Surely the answer will in most cases be "I am going to work".FrancisUrquhart said:North Yorkshire Police has said it will use checkpoints to stop vehicles and ask drivers if their journey is essential during the lockdown.
A lot of people seem to have got the impression that the government guidance is only key workers should go to work. It is not. millions cannot work from home so they should still go to work, and are doing. Have quite a few people who had this misunderstanding at my workplace earlier in the week but it's clear now.
One good reason not to be driving all over the place, you then need to go and get fuel. So that is yet another unnecessary interaction with the world, especially one where loads of people touch the pumps and the payment terminal.
Second you break down, now you have to interact with the very very very nice man from the AA.0 -
A State Bank was for me one of the very best of Labour's ideas. I liked it anyway - for "leveling up" - and in current circumstances it would add enormous value.Nigelb said:Agreed.
It's fine to criticise Rick Stein and the rest, but if there is zero cash coming in to businesses, and they don't know when the furlough money is going to start, what are they to do if they don't have the cash (as many won't) ?0 -
Unemployment only got to 11% during the great depression in Norway.eadric said:
I keep looking at that chart and thinking, oh, so this is the Norwegian unemployment data for the last year, that's why the jump looks so alarming.AlastairMeeks said:
The UK government has taken considerable steps to keep people in employment. It is one of the major points to its credit.eadric said:
And Norway: identically horrible unemployment figuresAlastairMeeks said:
https://twitter.com/cfbjerknes/status/1242443544398376961?s=20
Unless there is a remarkable V shaped recovery, this looks like the Great Depression 2.0
Then I realise the chart goes back to 1980. Forty years ago. Corona dwarfs everything in that time.
0 -
It's also clearly against the government advice.FrancisUrquhart said:
If you are in the vulnerable group you shouldn't go out period. Otherwise, still no, you shouldn't be making unnecessary trips out of the house. The advice is very clear.algarkirk said:
Is there any sort of ban on members of a household going for a scenic drive, carefully avoiding hot spots and honeypots, perhaps on their way to their daily exercise or walking the dog?FrancisUrquhart said:
It depends where these road blocks are doing. If it is to stop people doing day trips to the Yorkshire Dales, and the plod asks you where you work.JonCisBack said:
Extraordinary. Surely the answer will in most cases be "I am going to work".FrancisUrquhart said:North Yorkshire Police has said it will use checkpoints to stop vehicles and ask drivers if their journey is essential during the lockdown.
A lot of people seem to have got the impression that the government guidance is only key workers should go to work. It is not. millions cannot work from home so they should still go to work, and are doing. Have quite a few people who had this misunderstanding at my workplace earlier in the week but it's clear now.
One good reason not to be driving all over the place, you then need to go and get fuel. So that is yet another unnecessary interaction with the world, especially one where loads of people touch the pumps and the payment terminal.
Second you break down, now you have to interact with the very very very nice man from the AA.0 -
"There is, as usual with the Boris-Cummings duumvirate, a twist, though this time it’s of limited comfort. Rumours are aswirl that they are orchestrating herd immunity by stealth. The story goes that everything from low enforcement of lockdown to the dispersal of asymptomatic school children into family homes, is part of the plan. Critics will call this saving face. But, if true, it hits on the curious blind spot of a so-called populist: Mr Johnson’s insecure reluctance to square with the public."kinabalu said:
Re the debate between the 2 approaches - Lockdown 20k Deaths vs Herd Immunity 250k Deaths - perhaps we will end up with a blend of both.TGOHF666 said:We are going to be back at work in a month or less.
Now. Lockdown. Flatten peak.
After. Vulnerable remain "shielded" whilst the rest of us get out and about again.
0 -
On the plus side, diesel has never been cheaper. £1.089 at the pump this morning, filled up.
Treated the pump as if it was radioactive.0 -
But everyone likes borders now.eadric said:
Certainly puts the knackers on it for a few years. After a terrible plague, who will want to go through the emotional hell of a wrenching, divisive referendum?Big_G_NorthWales said:
The young grow old and wiser Malcmalcolmg said:
I doubt the vote will split and it is really only a matter of time, G is completely wrong. It is only people of his era holding it up, the young are massively in favour so clock is ticking.Big_G_NorthWales said:
There will not be indy.kinabalu said:
It will be interesting what becomes of the SNP once the goal of independence is achieved. At the moment they are able to secure the votes of people with very different politics - e.g. our own @malcolmg and @Theuniondivvie who I sense from their posts are right and left (of centre) respectively - drawn together by a shared belief that Scotland does not belong in the UK. Such people, and there must be loads, will probably not be voting for the same party post indy.ydoethur said:If there was a split - which, I am honest, I do not expect there to be - the more dangerous scenario would be the two sides splitting the Nationalist vote (which let us not forget, is a minority of the overall electorate) and letting Unionist candidates through the middle.
But my suspicion is all that will happen is a lot of damaging mud slinging, which may topple Sturgeon and cost the SNP ten seats next year but would not be fatal to it. Ultimately, there are huge policy differences over just about everything in the SNP - Europe, Education, Health, Policing - but because they all want independence everything else is secondary. This will just be another sore.
Covid 19 is terminal for indy
Note how Brexiteers are quietly accepting a delay to real Brexit.
Milder Nats will have no desire for a vote, Unionists will abhor it, only hardcore indy-supporters will push for it. Not gonna happen for the foreseeable0 -
You stay in your car with windows up as the very very very nice man from the AA rumages around under the bonnet, then realies he can't fix it so tows you home. Then sit in the car until he drives off.FrancisUrquhart said:
If you are in the vulnerable group you shouldn't go out period. Otherwise, still no, you shouldn't be making unnecessary trips out of the house. The advice is very clear.algarkirk said:
Is there any sort of ban on members of a household going for a scenic drive, carefully avoiding hot spots and honeypots, perhaps on their way to their daily exercise or walking the dog?FrancisUrquhart said:
It depends where these road blocks are doing. If it is to stop people doing day trips to the Yorkshire Dales, and the plod asks you where you work.JonCisBack said:
Extraordinary. Surely the answer will in most cases be "I am going to work".FrancisUrquhart said:North Yorkshire Police has said it will use checkpoints to stop vehicles and ask drivers if their journey is essential during the lockdown.
A lot of people seem to have got the impression that the government guidance is only key workers should go to work. It is not. millions cannot work from home so they should still go to work, and are doing. Have quite a few people who had this misunderstanding at my workplace earlier in the week but it's clear now.
One good reason not to be driving all over the place, you then need to go and get fuel. So that is yet another unnecessary interaction with the world, especially one where loads of people touch the pumps and the payment terminal.
Second you break down, now you have to interact with the very very very nice man from the AA.
Then leg it indoors before the cops arrive.
Not that much of an interaction.0 -
2-3% is almost certainly loss making for the banks.algarkirk said:
As these are emergency loans to otherwise viable businesses and, crucially, backed by a guarantee from the government to the bank that they will underwrite it, should not the interest rate be about 2-3%?Charles said:
Personal guarantees are something quite different.HYUFD said:
What loans do not come with guarantees?RochdalePioneers said:LBC reporting the likes of HSBC and Lloyds charging <12% interest and personal guarantees on government backed business interruption loans.
Another triumph for HYUFD!</p>
They pierce the corporate veil.
The govt are guaranteeing 60% of the banks total loans (80% of each individual loan). So the banks are taking on risk (40% of £300bn in the unlikely event the loans were fully subsrcibed. Inflation could be anything over the next couple of years so 2-3% doesnt necessarily even cover that.
And they would want to model in a significant percentage of bankruptcies given the economic uncertainty, which the surviving businesses effectively need to cover in interest payments.0 -
Thanks for posting that. I went through it, and discovered that I'm not "extremely vulnerable". That's reassuring, because I have 3 underlying health conditions. Not the ones that are of greatest concern, happily.Malmesbury said:Wonder if anyone has missed this? In order for the supermarkets to prioritise you for deliveries - they either do it by age or by data they are being given by the government. So you need to register here -
https://www.gov.uk/coronavirus-extremely-vulnerable
Oh, and a very belated happy birthday to PB, and thanks to all who keep it going.
Good afternoon, everybody. Thanks for all the discussion & chat. Best wishes to you & yours.
1 -
The petrol station is the most worrying. How many others will have used that pump before or after you?MarqueeMark said:
You stay in your car with windows up as the very very very nice man from the AA rumages around under the bonnet, then realies he can't fix it so tows you home. Then sit in the car until he drives off.FrancisUrquhart said:
If you are in the vulnerable group you shouldn't go out period. Otherwise, still no, you shouldn't be making unnecessary trips out of the house. The advice is very clear.algarkirk said:
Is there any sort of ban on members of a household going for a scenic drive, carefully avoiding hot spots and honeypots, perhaps on their way to their daily exercise or walking the dog?FrancisUrquhart said:
It depends where these road blocks are doing. If it is to stop people doing day trips to the Yorkshire Dales, and the plod asks you where you work.JonCisBack said:
Extraordinary. Surely the answer will in most cases be "I am going to work".FrancisUrquhart said:North Yorkshire Police has said it will use checkpoints to stop vehicles and ask drivers if their journey is essential during the lockdown.
A lot of people seem to have got the impression that the government guidance is only key workers should go to work. It is not. millions cannot work from home so they should still go to work, and are doing. Have quite a few people who had this misunderstanding at my workplace earlier in the week but it's clear now.
One good reason not to be driving all over the place, you then need to go and get fuel. So that is yet another unnecessary interaction with the world, especially one where loads of people touch the pumps and the payment terminal.
Second you break down, now you have to interact with the very very very nice man from the AA.
Then leg it indoors before the cops arrive.
Not that much of an interaction.0 -
A big one that I found out about a few months ago, so many of the base chemicals for loads and loads of processes, especially making drugs, is now pretty much 100% China made.rkrkrk said:
Surely we will reconsider whether being so reliant on China for various essentials is wise. APIs, PPE etc...FF43 said:Interesting insight into how the Johnsonian elite thinks the epidemic will impact government policy. Notable hostility towards China. I think Huawei will be pushed out of UK 5G. This is totemic. More difficult, I think, on a broader scale. Will an economically stressed UK reject trading relationships with China? Also China is the biggest potential Brexit win. If Europe is excluded on ideological grounds and the USA is proving unreliable that basically leaves "Global Britain", with China as the remaining major potential strategic partner.
https://twitter.com/JGForsyth/status/1243107462162546688
I can't imagine the west are going to be too happy to continue such reliance.0 -
Well said.JonCisBack said:
Extraordinary. Surely the answer will in most cases be "I am going to work".FrancisUrquhart said:North Yorkshire Police has said it will use checkpoints to stop vehicles and ask drivers if their journey is essential during the lockdown.
A lot of people seem to have got the impression that the government guidance is only key workers should go to work. It is not. millions cannot work from home so they should still go to work, and are doing. Have quite a few people who had this misunderstanding at my workplace earlier in the week but it's clear now.0 -
It will be interesting to see how it evolves. Will a lot of those people get their old jobs back, or will it be a slower recovery?eadric said:
And presumably Norway got to 11% unemployment over some time: a few years in the 1930s. This has happened in a few weeks.RobD said:
Unemployment only got to 11% during the great depression in Norway.eadric said:
I keep looking at that chart and thinking, oh, so this is the Norwegian unemployment data for the last year, that's why the jump looks so alarming.AlastairMeeks said:
The UK government has taken considerable steps to keep people in employment. It is one of the major points to its credit.eadric said:
And Norway: identically horrible unemployment figuresAlastairMeeks said:
https://twitter.com/cfbjerknes/status/1242443544398376961?s=20
Unless there is a remarkable V shaped recovery, this looks like the Great Depression 2.0
Then I realise the chart goes back to 1980. Forty years ago. Corona dwarfs everything in that time.
As Nouriel Roubini said in the Guardian, this is an unprecedented economic crisis. No one alive has seen anything like this.0 -
A complete overlap on the Venn diagram between those peddling said rumours - and those who hate Boris Johnson.....Monkeys said:
"There is, as usual with the Boris-Cummings duumvirate, a twist, though this time it’s of limited comfort. Rumours are aswirl that they are orchestrating herd immunity by stealth. The story goes that everything from low enforcement of lockdown to the dispersal of asymptomatic school children into family homes, is part of the plan. Critics will call this saving face. But, if true, it hits on the curious blind spot of a so-called populist: Mr Johnson’s insecure reluctance to square with the public."kinabalu said:
Re the debate between the 2 approaches - Lockdown 20k Deaths vs Herd Immunity 250k Deaths - perhaps we will end up with a blend of both.TGOHF666 said:We are going to be back at work in a month or less.
Now. Lockdown. Flatten peak.
After. Vulnerable remain "shielded" whilst the rest of us get out and about again.0 -
Brexit killed it really, especially when the SNP voted against customs union, which you need for smooth trade with your non-EU country that you share a border with. Covid puts a stake through its heart, and Modern Monetary Theory encases it in lead.No_Offence_Alan said:
But everyone likes borders now.eadric said:
Certainly puts the knackers on it for a few years. After a terrible plague, who will want to go through the emotional hell of a wrenching, divisive referendum?Big_G_NorthWales said:
The young grow old and wiser Malcmalcolmg said:
I doubt the vote will split and it is really only a matter of time, G is completely wrong. It is only people of his era holding it up, the young are massively in favour so clock is ticking.Big_G_NorthWales said:
There will not be indy.kinabalu said:
It will be interesting what becomes of the SNP once the goal of independence is achieved. At the moment they are able to secure the votes of people with very different politics - e.g. our own @malcolmg and @Theuniondivvie who I sense from their posts are right and left (of centre) respectively - drawn together by a shared belief that Scotland does not belong in the UK. Such people, and there must be loads, will probably not be voting for the same party post indy.ydoethur said:If there was a split - which, I am honest, I do not expect there to be - the more dangerous scenario would be the two sides splitting the Nationalist vote (which let us not forget, is a minority of the overall electorate) and letting Unionist candidates through the middle.
But my suspicion is all that will happen is a lot of damaging mud slinging, which may topple Sturgeon and cost the SNP ten seats next year but would not be fatal to it. Ultimately, there are huge policy differences over just about everything in the SNP - Europe, Education, Health, Policing - but because they all want independence everything else is secondary. This will just be another sore.
Covid 19 is terminal for indy
Note how Brexiteers are quietly accepting a delay to real Brexit.
Milder Nats will have no desire for a vote, Unionists will abhor it, only hardcore indy-supporters will push for it. Not gonna happen for the foreseeable0 -
Glove and antibacterial wipe for me. I'll fill up my other half's car too as I don't trust her to inadvertently touch her face or some such.RobD said:
The petrol station is the most worrying. How many others will have used that pump before or after you?MarqueeMark said:
You stay in your car with windows up as the very very very nice man from the AA rumages around under the bonnet, then realies he can't fix it so tows you home. Then sit in the car until he drives off.FrancisUrquhart said:
If you are in the vulnerable group you shouldn't go out period. Otherwise, still no, you shouldn't be making unnecessary trips out of the house. The advice is very clear.algarkirk said:
Is there any sort of ban on members of a household going for a scenic drive, carefully avoiding hot spots and honeypots, perhaps on their way to their daily exercise or walking the dog?FrancisUrquhart said:
It depends where these road blocks are doing. If it is to stop people doing day trips to the Yorkshire Dales, and the plod asks you where you work.JonCisBack said:
Extraordinary. Surely the answer will in most cases be "I am going to work".FrancisUrquhart said:North Yorkshire Police has said it will use checkpoints to stop vehicles and ask drivers if their journey is essential during the lockdown.
A lot of people seem to have got the impression that the government guidance is only key workers should go to work. It is not. millions cannot work from home so they should still go to work, and are doing. Have quite a few people who had this misunderstanding at my workplace earlier in the week but it's clear now.
One good reason not to be driving all over the place, you then need to go and get fuel. So that is yet another unnecessary interaction with the world, especially one where loads of people touch the pumps and the payment terminal.
Second you break down, now you have to interact with the very very very nice man from the AA.
Then leg it indoors before the cops arrive.
Not that much of an interaction.0 -
Nicola Sturgeon has done brilliantly during this crisiskinabalu said:
Yes I should have said "if" not "when".HYUFD said:They have to get independence first and still most Scots are not voting SNP
Brexit makes it more desirable (from a Scot's PoV) but harder to achieve.
And the virus makes it ... well not sure.1 -
Ashley Young, a footballer of all people, made the correct statement, when you go out presume everybody has it and that it is everywhere that you might touch.0
-
Thanks. I think it will be okay, the supermarkets will make more delivery slots and eventually it might be possible to get through to them on the phone to explain the situation, before I run out of food. With the deliveries I managed to book before they all got filled, if not cancelled, I will rationally buy (not panic buy!) as much as I can use and store. It's more the worry of not knowing.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Singing, hope everything works out ok. Whereabouts are you?
--AS1 -
I see the usual suspects are usual suspecting again.Burgessian said:
The point is they fear independence won't happen at all. Coronavirus is a disaster for them as is Brexit. They represent huge barriers which did not exist in 2014 and Sturgeon is being blamed for letting the momentum slip, despite her obvious successes and credibility so far as the public is concerned. This is stressing the coalition and Salmond's massive sense of entitlement and grievance is a match about to be dropped into a tinder-box.kinabalu said:
It will be interesting what becomes of the SNP once the goal of independence is achieved. At the moment they are able to secure the votes of people with very different politics - e.g. our own @malcolmg and @Theuniondivvie who I sense from their posts are right and left (of centre) respectively - drawn together by a shared belief that Scotland does not belong in the UK. Such people, and there must be loads, will probably not be voting for the same party post indy.ydoethur said:If there was a split - which, I am honest, I do not expect there to be - the more dangerous scenario would be the two sides splitting the Nationalist vote (which let us not forget, is a minority of the overall electorate) and letting Unionist candidates through the middle.
But my suspicion is all that will happen is a lot of damaging mud slinging, which may topple Sturgeon and cost the SNP ten seats next year but would not be fatal to it. Ultimately, there are huge policy differences over just about everything in the SNP - Europe, Education, Health, Policing - but because they all want independence everything else is secondary. This will just be another sore.
All the old uglies, misogynists and bampots are re-appearing who they need to keep under wraps (Macneil, Cherry, Neil et al) and this is horrifying the more moderate members not to mention the women who are appalled at Salmond's behaviour.
Luv how you set yourself up as an expert on the inner workings of the EssEnnPee when you didn't seem aware of one of the primary articles of their faith, ie an elected SBP member never has and never will take a seat in the HoL.0 -
Let us take a minute to appreciate our bin men.bigjohnowls said:Its bin day for me and Mrs BJ but as we are on a collect and return service due to our respective health problems it is like every other day.
We do have Mrs BJs nurse and twice a day carers to look forward to but they do not have any PPE so a bit worrying.4 -
Use the automated pumps - Sainsbury's for us.RobD said:
The petrol station is the most worrying. How many others will have used that pump before or after you?MarqueeMark said:
You stay in your car with windows up as the very very very nice man from the AA rumages around under the bonnet, then realies he can't fix it so tows you home. Then sit in the car until he drives off.FrancisUrquhart said:
If you are in the vulnerable group you shouldn't go out period. Otherwise, still no, you shouldn't be making unnecessary trips out of the house. The advice is very clear.algarkirk said:
Is there any sort of ban on members of a household going for a scenic drive, carefully avoiding hot spots and honeypots, perhaps on their way to their daily exercise or walking the dog?FrancisUrquhart said:
It depends where these road blocks are doing. If it is to stop people doing day trips to the Yorkshire Dales, and the plod asks you where you work.JonCisBack said:
Extraordinary. Surely the answer will in most cases be "I am going to work".FrancisUrquhart said:North Yorkshire Police has said it will use checkpoints to stop vehicles and ask drivers if their journey is essential during the lockdown.
A lot of people seem to have got the impression that the government guidance is only key workers should go to work. It is not. millions cannot work from home so they should still go to work, and are doing. Have quite a few people who had this misunderstanding at my workplace earlier in the week but it's clear now.
One good reason not to be driving all over the place, you then need to go and get fuel. So that is yet another unnecessary interaction with the world, especially one where loads of people touch the pumps and the payment terminal.
Second you break down, now you have to interact with the very very very nice man from the AA.
Then leg it indoors before the cops arrive.
Not that much of an interaction.
Use gloves.
Use the diesel gloves over those gloves.
Fill up, throw away diesel gloves.
Wipe gloves with anti-bac (including H1N1 virus) wipes. Throw away gloves.
Go home, wash hands for 20 seconds.
I reckon that should cover my fuel needs for every few weeks now.0 -
Fair point, you are right. Been a long week for many people trying to explain why no, you can';t just not bother coming in to work and expect full pay...FrancisUrquhart said:
It depends where these road blocks are doing. If it is to stop people doing day trips to the Yorkshire Dales, and the plod asks you where you work.JonCisBack said:
Extraordinary. Surely the answer will in most cases be "I am going to work".FrancisUrquhart said:North Yorkshire Police has said it will use checkpoints to stop vehicles and ask drivers if their journey is essential during the lockdown.
A lot of people seem to have got the impression that the government guidance is only key workers should go to work. It is not. millions cannot work from home so they should still go to work, and are doing. Have quite a few people who had this misunderstanding at my workplace earlier in the week but it's clear now.0 -
Use the diesel gloves. Only myself and one other did when I filled up the other day.RobD said:
The petrol station is the most worrying. How many others will have used that pump before or after you?MarqueeMark said:
You stay in your car with windows up as the very very very nice man from the AA rumages around under the bonnet, then realies he can't fix it so tows you home. Then sit in the car until he drives off.FrancisUrquhart said:
If you are in the vulnerable group you shouldn't go out period. Otherwise, still no, you shouldn't be making unnecessary trips out of the house. The advice is very clear.algarkirk said:
Is there any sort of ban on members of a household going for a scenic drive, carefully avoiding hot spots and honeypots, perhaps on their way to their daily exercise or walking the dog?FrancisUrquhart said:
It depends where these road blocks are doing. If it is to stop people doing day trips to the Yorkshire Dales, and the plod asks you where you work.JonCisBack said:
Extraordinary. Surely the answer will in most cases be "I am going to work".FrancisUrquhart said:North Yorkshire Police has said it will use checkpoints to stop vehicles and ask drivers if their journey is essential during the lockdown.
A lot of people seem to have got the impression that the government guidance is only key workers should go to work. It is not. millions cannot work from home so they should still go to work, and are doing. Have quite a few people who had this misunderstanding at my workplace earlier in the week but it's clear now.
One good reason not to be driving all over the place, you then need to go and get fuel. So that is yet another unnecessary interaction with the world, especially one where loads of people touch the pumps and the payment terminal.
Second you break down, now you have to interact with the very very very nice man from the AA.
Then leg it indoors before the cops arrive.
Not that much of an interaction.
Canada unemployment doubled yesterday.
0 -
A lockdown is what you do when you have lost the window to employ the Korean style mass testing. The mass testing approach is to avoid needing the lockdown. The west all sat on their asses for too long so now we have no real choice. Hopefully for future pandemics and any second wave of covid everywhere will take notice sooner.HYUFD said:1 -
To be fair, I think Sturgeon's Law might apply to most human activities...ydoethur said:
Badly.squareroot2 said:
You obviously have no idea how Govt works.OldKingCole said:
Johnson or Corbyn. Hmm. Tough one. John McDonnell as Chancellor, not so much. As Mr Pioneers seems to be pointing out, so far Sunak is all promise and little performance.RochdalePioneers said:
As a foaming at the month anti-Tory ideologue I am very happy Johnson is PM and not Corbyn (right again HYUFD). This isn't about the last election or what people think or even politics.OldKingCole said:
Lots of people don't believe Johnson believes what he says or says what he believes.felix said:Labour tried the 'tories f*** business' thing last December - can't recall how it worked out for them..
This is about survival.
The government clearly recognises there is a Massive Problem. It has proffered £330bn "and more if required" of guaranteed loans with no interest for 12 months. It has pledged to pay 80% of furloughed wages with literal unlimited amounts of cash available. It - Sunak - Gets It.
In practice however there is also a Massive Problem. The guaranteed loans with zero interest are not available to most and with daft rates of interest if they are. The wage payment doesn't yet exist. Companies can't even offer to furlough wages as it can't get the cash due to the government closing them down and the banks not playing ball.
Politics doesn't matter right now. We need an immediate solution to an immediate problem. The government on the phone to bank CEOs instructing them to throw government cash about to their customers. Today. If wages are to be paid then hand over the cash. If loans are to be made then hand over the cash. Otherwise its just hot air. And a significant part of our economy collapses. And people find themselves personally ruined. Which makes population management that much harder.
And thats saying nothing about the self employed or businesses who operate inside someone else's premises or people renting from fuck you landlords or people being forced to work regardless of them literally being a walking viral bomb.
Cash. Now. Or people die.0 -
I’m going to get to June having only put fuel in my car once this year.Pulpstar said:On the plus side, diesel has never been cheaper. £1.089 at the pump this morning, filled up.
Treated the pump as if it was radioactive.0 -
But 'the most successful countries' managed to avoid progressing to the stage where they were more or less forced to lockdown.HYUFD said:
If we can get back to where they started, then it might be possible for us, too. And that in any event seems more or less to be current government policy.1 -
Bill Gates was really positive on how this crisis will result in a leap forward in technology to allow the world to test for all sorts of diseases in a rapid fashion.Nigelb said:
But 'the most successful countries' managed to avoid progressing to the stage where they were more or less forced to lockdown.HYUFD said:
If we can get back to where they started, then it might be possible for us, too. And that in any event seems more or less to be current government policy.0 -
Like this but with loans added, not just savings?kinabalu said:
A State Bank was for me one of the very best of Labour's ideas. I liked it anyway - for "leveling up" - and in current circumstances it would add enormous value.Nigelb said:Agreed.
It's fine to criticise Rick Stein and the rest, but if there is zero cash coming in to businesses, and they don't know when the furlough money is going to start, what are they to do if they don't have the cash (as many won't) ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Savings_and_Investments0 -
It also assumes causation from correlation - that lockdowns are worse at containing virus rather than areas where the virus has spread more are more likely to apply lockdowns.Paristonda said:
A lockdown is what you do when you have lost the window to employ the Korean style mass testing. The mass testing approach is to avoid needing the lockdown. The west all sat on their asses for too long so now we have no real choice. Hopefully for future pandemics and any second wave of covid everywhere will take notice sooner.HYUFD said:1 -
I think this is perhaps designed to discourage holiday trippers ?algarkirk said:
Is there any sort of ban on members of a household going for a scenic drive, carefully avoiding hot spots and honeypots, perhaps on their way to their daily exercise or walking the dog?FrancisUrquhart said:
It depends where these road blocks are doing. If it is to stop people doing day trips to the Yorkshire Dales, and the plod asks you where you work.JonCisBack said:
Extraordinary. Surely the answer will in most cases be "I am going to work".FrancisUrquhart said:North Yorkshire Police has said it will use checkpoints to stop vehicles and ask drivers if their journey is essential during the lockdown.
A lot of people seem to have got the impression that the government guidance is only key workers should go to work. It is not. millions cannot work from home so they should still go to work, and are doing. Have quite a few people who had this misunderstanding at my workplace earlier in the week but it's clear now.
Didn't someone say the same was happening in Cornwall ?0 -
I bet loads of SNP people like best the situation where they can talk about independence but not have it; in much the same way as a whole branch of Labour folks prefer opposition to government.Theuniondivvie said:
I see the usual suspects are usual suspecting again.Burgessian said:
The point is they fear independence won't happen at all. Coronavirus is a disaster for them as is Brexit. They represent huge barriers which did not exist in 2014 and Sturgeon is being blamed for letting the momentum slip, despite her obvious successes and credibility so far as the public is concerned. This is stressing the coalition and Salmond's massive sense of entitlement and grievance is a match about to be dropped into a tinder-box.kinabalu said:
It will be interesting what becomes of the SNP once the goal of independence is achieved. At the moment they are able to secure the votes of people with very different politics - e.g. our own @malcolmg and @Theuniondivvie who I sense from their posts are right and left (of centre) respectively - drawn together by a shared belief that Scotland does not belong in the UK. Such people, and there must be loads, will probably not be voting for the same party post indy.ydoethur said:If there was a split - which, I am honest, I do not expect there to be - the more dangerous scenario would be the two sides splitting the Nationalist vote (which let us not forget, is a minority of the overall electorate) and letting Unionist candidates through the middle.
But my suspicion is all that will happen is a lot of damaging mud slinging, which may topple Sturgeon and cost the SNP ten seats next year but would not be fatal to it. Ultimately, there are huge policy differences over just about everything in the SNP - Europe, Education, Health, Policing - but because they all want independence everything else is secondary. This will just be another sore.
All the old uglies, misogynists and bampots are re-appearing who they need to keep under wraps (Macneil, Cherry, Neil et al) and this is horrifying the more moderate members not to mention the women who are appalled at Salmond's behaviour.
Luv how you set yourself up as an expert on the inner workings of the EssEnnPee when you didn't seem aware of one of the primary articles of their faith, ie an elected SBP member never has and never will take a seat in the HoL.
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That could have been written by Alan Partridge.MarqueeMark said:
Use the automated pumps - Sainsbury's for us.RobD said:
The petrol station is the most worrying. How many others will have used that pump before or after you?MarqueeMark said:
You stay in your car with windows up as the very very very nice man from the AA rumages around under the bonnet, then realies he can't fix it so tows you home. Then sit in the car until he drives off.FrancisUrquhart said:
If you are in the vulnerable group you shouldn't go out period. Otherwise, still no, you shouldn't be making unnecessary trips out of the house. The advice is very clear.algarkirk said:
Is there any sort of ban on members of a household going for a scenic drive, carefully avoiding hot spots and honeypots, perhaps on their way to their daily exercise or walking the dog?FrancisUrquhart said:
It depends where these road blocks are doing. If it is to stop people doing day trips to the Yorkshire Dales, and the plod asks you where you work.JonCisBack said:
Extraordinary. Surely the answer will in most cases be "I am going to work".FrancisUrquhart said:North Yorkshire Police has said it will use checkpoints to stop vehicles and ask drivers if their journey is essential during the lockdown.
A lot of people seem to have got the impression that the government guidance is only key workers should go to work. It is not. millions cannot work from home so they should still go to work, and are doing. Have quite a few people who had this misunderstanding at my workplace earlier in the week but it's clear now.
One good reason not to be driving all over the place, you then need to go and get fuel. So that is yet another unnecessary interaction with the world, especially one where loads of people touch the pumps and the payment terminal.
Second you break down, now you have to interact with the very very very nice man from the AA.
Then leg it indoors before the cops arrive.
Not that much of an interaction.
Use gloves.
Use the diesel gloves over those gloves.
Fill up, throw away diesel gloves.
Wipe gloves with anti-bac (including H1N1 virus) wipes. Throw away gloves.
Go home, wash hands for 20 seconds.
I reckon that should cover my fuel needs for every few weeks now.0 -
Fysics_Teacher said:
I’m going to get to June having only put fuel in my car once this year.Pulpstar said:On the plus side, diesel has never been cheaper. £1.089 at the pump this morning, filled up.
Treated the pump as if it was radioactive.
Wow, I filled up at Asda in Brighton last week and it was 114.9. I thought that was dirt cheap. Where did you fill up>?Pulpstar said:On the plus side, diesel has never been cheaper. £1.089 at the pump this morning, filled up.
Treated the pump as if it was radioactive.0 -
Alternatively, we simply won't be able to afford as many imports from them...FF43 said:Interesting insight into how the Johnsonian elite thinks the epidemic will impact government policy. Notable hostility towards China. I think Huawei will be pushed out of UK 5G. This is totemic. More difficult, I think, on a broader scale. Will an economically stressed UK reject trading relationships with China? Also China is the biggest potential Brexit win. If Europe is excluded on ideological grounds and the USA is proving unreliable that basically leaves "Global Britain", with China as the remaining major potential strategic partner.
https://twitter.com/JGForsyth/status/12431074621625466880 -
Best of luck, Mr. Singing 0
