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SystemSystem Posts: 12,634
edited February 2020 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Rishi Sunak – the PB 200/1 tip to be next PM – gets the Chancellor’s job in Boris’s reshuffle

At the end of November Philip Thompson had a guest slot here suggesting that the MP who who took over William Hague’s old seat at Richmond in Yorkshire was a good bet to be the next PM.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,621
    First!
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    :)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,326
    Legendary modesty klaxon.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,326
    https://twitter.com/davidherdson/status/1227926689830916096?s=21
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,602
    If Boris wins the next general election then Sunak would be a strong favourite to succeed him as PM, if he loses though Patel might be a better bet to be leader of the opposition.

    Rishi Sunak will make the Cabinet a bit more posh and even more Leave, he went to Winchester College, Lincoln college Oxford and Stanford and backed Leave, Javid went to a comp and Exeter University and backed Remain.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,328
    Philip_Thompson said:

    :)

    Blimey, that is a good tip! Well played
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,369
    Got to love the regional press.

    Yorkshire's Rishi Sunak confirmed as next Chancellor after Sajid Javid resigns
    https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/politics/yorkshire-s-rishi-sunak-confirmed-as-next-chancellor-after-sajid-javid-resigns-1-10254885
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited February 2020
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/davidherdson/status/1227926689830916096?s=21

    It's a matter of fact that he is more important. Javid didn't win him the election, Cummings did. Common sense would dictate that the latter be more highly valued.
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    A joint Number Ten and Treasury Spad team is interesting. Either that will apply to all ministers (e.g. all Spads explicitly report to Number Ten) or he’s just made posts like the Foreign and Home Secretaries more senior than the Chancellor, because they will continue to have an independent power base.

    If the former, than that’s a massive change.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    oxfordsimon said:

    I don't believe this resignation wasn't anticipated. I think it was the desired outcome. Wargamomg something like that is what people like Cummings do

    The fact they had Rishi ready to go suggests this outcome was anticipated, desired even.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    It was a good tip. Anyone who wants to can now lay off on Betfair for a profit.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 10,083
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/davidherdson/status/1227926689830916096?s=21

    Johnson to promote the Teletubbies to defence?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,662
    oxfordsimon said:

    I don't believe this resignation wasn't anticipated. I think it was the desired outcome. Wargamomg something like that is what people like Cummings do

    Oddly, the "has Cummings wargamed that?" jibe seems to have been out of fashion since the 80 seat majority....
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,800
    edited February 2020
    Just noticed Rishi Sunak was born 6 days before me, in the same place as me in Southampton.

    He must be the youngest CoE since?????

    Edit: just noticed-probably Osborne!
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,743
    Kudos to the Tories - successive Chancellors from the BAME community.

    I fundamentally disagree with a lot of their policies. But they are very good at promoting people based on talent and not race/gender/sexuality
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,662
    On a personal level, I am quite delighted with Sunak's promotion.

    For reasons which may become apparent in short order (nothing to do with next PM).
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,602
    Alok Sharma new Business Secretary
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Yes, great tip by @Philip_Thompson.

    Of course we'll have to see how Sunak performs in this top-level role. He does seem to have talent, but this is a hell of a promotion for someone with relatively little experience.

    More significant perhaps is the speed with which Boris is burning through his political capital. With Labour showing possible signs of an unexpectedly quick return to sanity, and the multiple difficult problems facing the government, things could get difficult for Boris quite soon.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,662
    HYUFD said:

    Alok Sharma new Business Secretary

    It just gets better.....
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,983
    With Greenmachine over messenger:

    Back him next chancellor in 15 years time

    My record on chancellors is decent
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,758
    MarqueeMark said:

    On a personal level, I am quite delighted with Sunak's promotion.

    For reasons which may become apparent in short order (nothing to do with next PM).

    Congratulations on your engagement
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,852
    It was a GREAT tip. Wish I'd done it. If I had, though, I'd be laying back now because "Boris" will sack him if he shows any signs whatsoever of ability.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,621
    BluestBlue said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/davidherdson/status/1227926689830916096?s=21

    It's a matter of fact that he is more important. Javid didn't win him the election, Cummings did. Common sense would dictate that the latter be more highly valued.
    As long as you don't consider that governing might be a tad different from campaigning.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited February 2020
    RochdalePioneers said:

    Kudos to the Tories - successive Chancellors from the BAME community.

    I fundamentally disagree with a lot of their policies. But they are very good at promoting people based on talent and not race/gender/sexuality

    I'll bid you one Priti Patel, a moron.

    EDIT: if you change "talent" for "unquestioning loyalty", then I think you'd be spot on.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,398
    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1227933424901599232
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    AlastairMeeks said:

    It was a good tip. Anyone who wants to can now lay off on Betfair for a profit.

    Betting question: I placed the bet on Labrokes and got a boost to 250/1 for the bet. Bet £20 @ 250/1 which would be a nice profit to cash out by laying it off, but is there a way to do that?

    I'm assuming if you back on Ladbrokes and lay on Betfair then you'd be tying cash up in both markets, right? Is there a way to get the cash out or do you have to wait?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,107
    Honeymoon done.

    What a basket case.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,248
    Boris has effectively abolished ministerial government. He and Dom had better be good, or it'll all come crashing around their ears.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    Certainly was a great tip from Mike.

    However, if you're currently coming onto this market I would suggest the 14/1 on next Conservative leader currently available on Betfair represents much better value than the 18/1 next PM.

  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    Jonathan said:

    Honeymoon done.

    What a basket case.

    Never had you down as a huge Sajid Javid fan. Let's be honest there were and are better potential Chancellors than him and Hammond. Why not give it to the guy who has impressed in the treasury?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,743
    Anorak said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    Kudos to the Tories - successive Chancellors from the BAME community.

    I fundamentally disagree with a lot of their policies. But they are very good at promoting people based on talent and not race/gender/sexuality

    I'll bid you one Priti Patel, a moron.

    EDIT: if you change "talent" for "unquestioning loyalty", then I think you'd be spot on.
    1. Loyalty is a significant talent in politics
    2. Patel - another BAME politician in senior office - is utterly reprehensible from my position. However I hear of lots of new Tory supporters who think she is great. She gives them what they want.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,885
    Alok Sharma has been promoted from international development secretary to business secretary. He will also be in charge of the COP26 climate change conference.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    https://twitter.com/elliotttimes/status/1227932489903169542
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,107
    Brom said:

    Jonathan said:

    Honeymoon done.

    What a basket case.

    Never had you down as a huge Sajid Javid fan. Let's be honest there were and are better potential Chancellors than him and Hammond. Why not give it to the guy who has impressed in the treasury?
    To lose your chancellor within two months of election over an adviser, what a basket case!

    Will Sunak be a Cummings yes man, or will he last two months?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,398
    Stark_Dawning said:

    Boris has effectively abolished ministerial government. He and Dom had better be good, or it'll all come crashing around their ears.

    It's f*cking disgrace. Total trashing of Cabinet government by a maniac.

    We are entering uncharted territory.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Sod the reshuffle. This is infinitely more important news.
    https://twitter.com/NYDailyNews/status/1227687852579971072
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    I guess the biggest difference between Rishi Sunak and Priti Patel is that he's talented.

    Pretty impressive CV I have to say.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,621
    Mysticrose said:

    Certainly was a great tip from Mike.

    However, if you're currently coming onto this market I would suggest the 14/1 on next Conservative leader currently available on Betfair represents much better value than the 18/1 next PM.

    He's already in to 8.4 as next leader edit/ while I am typing now 8.2
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    https://twitter.com/elliotttimes/status/1227932489903169542

    Under promise and over deliver.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,248
    Jonathan said:

    Honeymoon done.

    What a basket case.

    I doubt it will do Boris any immediate harm, but having the PM and Chancellor as effectively the same person has never been done in this country before. A fundamental 'belt-and-braces' arrangement in British politics has been abolished in an instant. This is huge news.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    Jonathan said:

    Brom said:

    Jonathan said:

    Honeymoon done.

    What a basket case.

    Never had you down as a huge Sajid Javid fan. Let's be honest there were and are better potential Chancellors than him and Hammond. Why not give it to the guy who has impressed in the treasury?
    To lose your chancellor within two months of election over an adviser, what a basket case!

    Will Sunak be a Cummings yes man, or will he last two months?
    You do realise he can now make these changes because he won the election. Now is the best time to make changes.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,885
    Anorak said:

    Sod the reshuffle. This is infinitely more important news.
    https://twitter.com/NYDailyNews/status/1227687852579971072

    He might get a job in the UK government, as all those tennis balls in his gob will keep him quiet and let Big Dom get on doing what he wants.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    Jonathan said:

    Brom said:

    Jonathan said:

    Honeymoon done.

    What a basket case.

    Never had you down as a huge Sajid Javid fan. Let's be honest there were and are better potential Chancellors than him and Hammond. Why not give it to the guy who has impressed in the treasury?
    To lose your chancellor within two months of election over an adviser, what a basket case!

    Will Sunak be a Cummings yes man, or will he last two months?
    Nah. Rubbish.

    I'm all for having a go at Boris if it merits it but this doesn't. He's right to sack Sajid after the HS2 debacle. He has the majority to do what he likes for now.

    Sorry folks you're just going to have to suck it up.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,983
    Mysticrose said:

    Certainly was a great tip from Mike.

    However, if you're currently coming onto this market I would suggest the 14/1 on next Conservative leader currently available on Betfair represents much better value than the 18/1 next PM.

    I think they're both awful value, it's a good reminder of how bettors overvalue the shiny new thing anyhow.
    He's a chancellor like Hammond and Javid, not a PM. The last chancellor who probably could have been a serious contender for PM was probably err... Osborne.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    Jonathan said:

    Honeymoon done.

    What a basket case.

    That's an important judgement coming from a staunch Conservative supporter such as yourself. Don't tell me they've lost your vote? :wink:

  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    https://twitter.com/MattLavenderSky/status/1227935807585030145?s=20
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,054
    IanB2 said:

    BluestBlue said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/davidherdson/status/1227926689830916096?s=21

    It's a matter of fact that he is more important. Javid didn't win him the election, Cummings did. Common sense would dictate that the latter be more highly valued.
    As long as you don't consider that governing might be a tad different from campaigning.
    For BB., Johnson/Cummings can do absolutely no wrong. Fiscal responsibility? Who needs it, Dom's "war-gamed it"

    It could become quite amusing as the next few years unfold.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    It's the equivalent of a football manager coming in at Christmas to steady a sinking ship, he's done a great job and now it's the summer he's signed a new 5 year contract and can ship out the deadwood/underperformers and shape the team the way he wants it rather than relying on the previous manager's squad.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Stark_Dawning said:

    Jonathan said:

    Honeymoon done.

    What a basket case.

    I doubt it will do Boris any immediate harm, but having the PM and Chancellor as effectively the same person has never been done in this country before. A fundamental 'belt-and-braces' arrangement in British politics has been abolished in an instant. This is huge news.
    Cameron/Osborne begs to differ. They were in lockstep and they did a fantastic job.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    Pulpstar said:

    Mysticrose said:

    Certainly was a great tip from Mike.

    However, if you're currently coming onto this market I would suggest the 14/1 on next Conservative leader currently available on Betfair represents much better value than the 18/1 next PM.

    I think they're both awful value, it's a good reminder of how bettors overvalue the shiny new thing anyhow.
    He's a chancellor like Hammond and Javid, not a PM. The last chancellor who probably could have been a serious contender for PM was probably err... Osborne.
    I don't agree. His CV is pretty darned impressive. Good early life background, business stock, Head Boy at Winchester, First Class degreee Lincoln College Oxford, Fulbright Scholar and success in the city.

    He's the first properly talented Conservative in a generation.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    Philip_Thompson said:

    Stark_Dawning said:

    Jonathan said:

    Honeymoon done.

    What a basket case.

    I doubt it will do Boris any immediate harm, but having the PM and Chancellor as effectively the same person has never been done in this country before. A fundamental 'belt-and-braces' arrangement in British politics has been abolished in an instant. This is huge news.
    Cameron/Osborne begs to differ. They were in lockstep and they did a fantastic job.
    Difference is they like Blair and Brown were a partnership born prior to taking office. The closest thing Boris has had was Gove. Perhaps in 4 or 5 years time Sunak will still be at Number 11.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    Brom said:

    It's the equivalent of a football manager coming in at Christmas to steady a sinking ship, he's done a great job and now it's the summer he's signed a new 5 year contract and can ship out the deadwood/underperformers and shape the team the way he wants it rather than relying on the previous manager's squad.

    Precisely
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,107
    BluestBlue said:

    Jonathan said:

    Honeymoon done.

    What a basket case.

    That's an important judgement coming from a staunch Conservative supporter such as yourself. Don't tell me they've lost your vote? :wink:

    You lost your chancellor today, that is always a big deal. The fact it wasn't intended makes it more so.

    Pretending this is not a big deal and bad news is just silly.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Brom said:

    It's the equivalent of a football manager coming in at Christmas to steady a sinking ship, he's done a great job and now it's the summer he's signed a new 5 year contract and can ship out the deadwood/underperformers and shape the team the way he wants it rather than relying on the previous manager's squad.

    Johnson is Klopp
    Sunak is Van Dijk

    Starmer is Ole Gunnar Solskjaer
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,585
    Stark_Dawning said:

    Jonathan said:

    Honeymoon done.

    What a basket case.

    I doubt it will do Boris any immediate harm, but having the PM and Chancellor as effectively the same person has never been done in this country before. A fundamental 'belt-and-braces' arrangement in British politics has been abolished in an instant. This is huge news.
    Not really. Churchill was both Prime Minister and Minister of Defence simultaneously. You could get rid of all the Cabinet ministers and Government would continue (and arguably improve in the short term). It's Boris who forms the Government and he can do that how he pleases. As I said recently, the Prime Minister is a really powerful individual.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,326
    Oh ferfuxsake


    London coronavirus patient turned up at hospital in Uber taxi

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/13/london-coronavirus-patient-turned-up-hospital-uber-taxi?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Jonathan said:

    BluestBlue said:

    Jonathan said:

    Honeymoon done.

    What a basket case.

    That's an important judgement coming from a staunch Conservative supporter such as yourself. Don't tell me they've lost your vote? :wink:

    You lost your chancellor today, that is always a big deal. The fact it wasn't intended makes it more so.

    Pretending this is not a big deal and bad news is just silly.
    Who's claiming it wasn't intended?
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    Jonathan said:

    BluestBlue said:

    Jonathan said:

    Honeymoon done.

    What a basket case.

    That's an important judgement coming from a staunch Conservative supporter such as yourself. Don't tell me they've lost your vote? :wink:

    You lost your chancellor today, that is always a big deal. The fact it wasn't intended makes it more so.

    Pretending this is not a big deal and bad news is just silly.
    I'm on the Left and I don't think this is 'bad news' at all. Javid screwed up over HS2 and Boris is stamping his authority on Gov't.

    Reminds me of Thatcher. Of course people like you and Alastair Meeks will whinge and moan out of bitterness for the whole of the next 5 years.

    For those of us who are able to take a step back and be objective, it's fun politics to watch. We haven't seen a PM able to be this decisive since Tony Blair more than a quarter of a century ago.

    Guess that's why it shocks some people.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,641
    Anorak said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    Kudos to the Tories - successive Chancellors from the BAME community.

    I fundamentally disagree with a lot of their policies. But they are very good at promoting people based on talent and not race/gender/sexuality

    I'll bid you one Priti Patel, a moron.

    EDIT: if you change "talent" for "unquestioning loyalty", then I think you'd be spot on.
    Priti and unquestioning loyalty? Some mistake surely...
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    Jonathan said:

    BluestBlue said:

    Jonathan said:

    Honeymoon done.

    What a basket case.

    That's an important judgement coming from a staunch Conservative supporter such as yourself. Don't tell me they've lost your vote? :wink:

    You lost your chancellor today, that is always a big deal. The fact it wasn't intended makes it more so.

    Pretending this is not a big deal and bad news is just silly.
    We've replaced a Chancellor at odds with the PM with one who is both in alignment with him and more talented than his predecessor. Our majority is still 80, and Labour is still 163 seats behind us.

    I wish all our losses were this bad!
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Still, Javid can look back to his Chancellorship with pride: he didn't make a single mistake in any of his Budgets. No other ex-Chancellor can say that.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,983
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Oh ferfuxsake


    London coronavirus patient turned up at hospital in Uber taxi

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/13/london-coronavirus-patient-turned-up-hospital-uber-taxi?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    LOL - a few people off at our work today, one of whom had Chinese relatives over recently..
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    Philip_Thompson said:

    Jonathan said:

    BluestBlue said:

    Jonathan said:

    Honeymoon done.

    What a basket case.

    That's an important judgement coming from a staunch Conservative supporter such as yourself. Don't tell me they've lost your vote? :wink:

    You lost your chancellor today, that is always a big deal. The fact it wasn't intended makes it more so.

    Pretending this is not a big deal and bad news is just silly.
    Who's claiming it wasn't intended?
    Indeed. Of course it was. Javid's card was marked with his HS2 screw up. I think Cummings and Johnson have played a blinder.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,438
    Jonathan said:

    BluestBlue said:

    Jonathan said:

    Honeymoon done.

    What a basket case.

    That's an important judgement coming from a staunch Conservative supporter such as yourself. Don't tell me they've lost your vote? :wink:

    You lost your chancellor today, that is always a big deal. The fact it wasn't intended makes it more so.

    Pretending this is not a big deal and bad news is just silly.
    Is is big news but nothing Boris does is ever going to meet with your approval
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,641
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Oh ferfuxsake


    London coronavirus patient turned up at hospital in Uber taxi

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/13/london-coronavirus-patient-turned-up-hospital-uber-taxi?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    More traceable than a black cab or tube at least.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    BluestBlue said:

    Jonathan said:

    BluestBlue said:

    Jonathan said:

    Honeymoon done.

    What a basket case.

    That's an important judgement coming from a staunch Conservative supporter such as yourself. Don't tell me they've lost your vote? :wink:

    You lost your chancellor today, that is always a big deal. The fact it wasn't intended makes it more so.

    Pretending this is not a big deal and bad news is just silly.
    We've replaced a Chancellor at odds with the PM with one who is both in alignment with him and more talented than his predecessor. Our majority is still 80, and Labour is still 163 seats behind us.

    I wish all our losses were this bad!
    I'm afraid some of my colleagues on the Left are still in denial :smiley:
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,790
    https://twitter.com/skynews/status/1196389533585199104?s=21
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,983
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Still, Javid can look back to his Chancellorship with pride: he didn't make a single mistake in any of his Budgets. No other ex-Chancellor can say that.

    Is he the first chancellor never to deliver a budget ?

    I'd have backed Sunak for Chancellor but I thought the payoff could be a decade away !
    I'd underestimated how fast things can happen in this Gov't - clearly.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I'm not sure that being seen as the tea boy will be conducive to Rishi Sunak's leadership prospects. He's evidently not going to be allowed to have opinions.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,107
    BluestBlue said:

    Jonathan said:

    BluestBlue said:

    Jonathan said:

    Honeymoon done.

    What a basket case.

    That's an important judgement coming from a staunch Conservative supporter such as yourself. Don't tell me they've lost your vote? :wink:

    You lost your chancellor today, that is always a big deal. The fact it wasn't intended makes it more so.

    Pretending this is not a big deal and bad news is just silly.
    We've replaced a Chancellor at odds with the PM with one who is both in alignment with him and more talented than his predecessor. Our majority is still 80, and Labour is still 163 seats behind us.

    I wish all our losses were this bad!
    These changes can have big impacts. Obviously the circumstances were different, but the implications of when Macleod gave way to Barber were huge.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Mysticrose said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    Jonathan said:

    BluestBlue said:

    Jonathan said:

    Honeymoon done.

    What a basket case.

    That's an important judgement coming from a staunch Conservative supporter such as yourself. Don't tell me they've lost your vote? :wink:

    You lost your chancellor today, that is always a big deal. The fact it wasn't intended makes it more so.

    Pretending this is not a big deal and bad news is just silly.
    Who's claiming it wasn't intended?
    Indeed. Of course it was. Javid's card was marked with his HS2 screw up. I think Cummings and Johnson have played a blinder.
    Blair lacked the balls to sack Brown and by the end it was a devastating mistake to leave Brown in place.

    I don't think Javid is Brown but having the PM and Chancellor be in alignment makes sense.

    Let's not forget the official title of the Prime Minister that is on the door to Number 10 Downing Street. Having the Treasury and PM at odds is not healthy.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,755
    viewcode said:

    Stark_Dawning said:

    Jonathan said:

    Honeymoon done.

    What a basket case.

    I doubt it will do Boris any immediate harm, but having the PM and Chancellor as effectively the same person has never been done in this country before. A fundamental 'belt-and-braces' arrangement in British politics has been abolished in an instant. This is huge news.
    Not really. Churchill was both Prime Minister and Minister of Defence simultaneously. You could get rid of all the Cabinet ministers and Government would continue (and arguably improve in the short term). It's Boris who forms the Government and he can do that how he pleases. As I said recently, the Prime Minister is a really powerful individual.
    The main issue here is time - there literally aren't enough hours in the day for one person to attend to everything important properly. Either they rely on good people around them to do it (and up to now there's been a theory that this was Boris's style) or they get into can-kicking for everything they don't have time for, or they make half-baked decisions. Option 1 is generally preferred for effective government.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,248
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Still, Javid can look back to his Chancellorship with pride: he didn't make a single mistake in any of his Budgets. No other ex-Chancellor can say that.

    The curious question is why did Boris appoint him in the first place? Surely The Saj is no more obviously useless now than he was a few months ago. Was Boris just being lazy and unthinking back then. Was he always planning to humiliate the man? Weird.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,162
    Time_to_Leave said:

    A joint Number Ten and Treasury Spad team is interesting. Either that will apply to all ministers (e.g. all Spads explicitly report to Number Ten) or he’s just made posts like the Foreign and Home Secretaries more senior than the Chancellor, because they will continue to have an independent power base.

    If the former, than that’s a massive change.

    Remember those happy days when Gordon Brown wouldn't even tell Blair what was in the budget?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,107
    edited February 2020
    Mysticrose said:

    Jonathan said:

    BluestBlue said:

    Jonathan said:

    Honeymoon done.

    What a basket case.

    That's an important judgement coming from a staunch Conservative supporter such as yourself. Don't tell me they've lost your vote? :wink:

    You lost your chancellor today, that is always a big deal. The fact it wasn't intended makes it more so.

    Pretending this is not a big deal and bad news is just silly.
    I'm on the Left and I don't think this is 'bad news' at all. Javid screwed up over HS2 and Boris is stamping his authority on Gov't.

    Reminds me of Thatcher. Of course people like you and Alastair Meeks will whinge and moan out of bitterness for the whole of the next 5 years.

    For those of us who are able to take a step back and be objective, it's fun politics to watch. We haven't seen a PM able to be this decisive since Tony Blair more than a quarter of a century ago.

    Guess that's why it shocks some people.
    How am I whinging or moaning? Just remarking the fact that if the government loses it's Chancellor after just two months, things might not be quite 100% tickety-boo.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,852
    Mysticrose said:

    I don't agree. His CV is pretty darned impressive. Good early life background, business stock, Head Boy at Winchester, First Class degreee Lincoln College Oxford, Fulbright Scholar and success in the city.

    He's the first properly talented Conservative in a generation.

    Mmm, that is one talented Oxbridge PPE public schoolboy City Hedge Fund manager right there.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    AlastairMeeks said:

    I'm not sure that being seen as the tea boy will be conducive to Rishi Sunak's leadership prospects. He's evidently not going to be allowed to have opinions.

    Oh look, Alastair can't resist a snide and derogatory comment.

    Rishi is a highly talented individual.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,602
    https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1227923330788995077?s=20
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,103
    AlastairMeeks said:

    I'm not sure that being seen as the tea boy will be conducive to Rishi Sunak's leadership prospects. He's evidently not going to be allowed to have opinions.

    I'm too young to remember, but was the same said of Major when he got the job?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,790
    Mysticrose said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Mysticrose said:

    Certainly was a great tip from Mike.

    However, if you're currently coming onto this market I would suggest the 14/1 on next Conservative leader currently available on Betfair represents much better value than the 18/1 next PM.

    I think they're both awful value, it's a good reminder of how bettors overvalue the shiny new thing anyhow.
    He's a chancellor like Hammond and Javid, not a PM. The last chancellor who probably could have been a serious contender for PM was probably err... Osborne.
    I don't agree. His CV is pretty darned impressive. Good early life background, business stock, Head Boy at Winchester, First Class degreee Lincoln College Oxford, Fulbright Scholar and success in the city.

    He's the first properly talented Conservative in a generation.
    Cant tell if parody or not.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    tlg86 said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    I'm not sure that being seen as the tea boy will be conducive to Rishi Sunak's leadership prospects. He's evidently not going to be allowed to have opinions.

    I'm too young to remember, but was the same said of Major when he got the job?
    Yes.

    And Rishi is 1000x more talented than John Major.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    NickPalmer said:

    viewcode said:

    Stark_Dawning said:

    Jonathan said:

    Honeymoon done.

    What a basket case.

    I doubt it will do Boris any immediate harm, but having the PM and Chancellor as effectively the same person has never been done in this country before. A fundamental 'belt-and-braces' arrangement in British politics has been abolished in an instant. This is huge news.
    Not really. Churchill was both Prime Minister and Minister of Defence simultaneously. You could get rid of all the Cabinet ministers and Government would continue (and arguably improve in the short term). It's Boris who forms the Government and he can do that how he pleases. As I said recently, the Prime Minister is a really powerful individual.
    The main issue here is time - there literally aren't enough hours in the day for one person to attend to everything important properly. Either they rely on good people around them to do it (and up to now there's been a theory that this was Boris's style) or they get into can-kicking for everything they don't have time for, or they make half-baked decisions. Option 1 is generally preferred for effective government.
    Suank is a good person. You want to rely upon good people yes, but you need to rely upon those good people to be pulling in the same direction as you want them to do so.

    The PM is First Lord of the Treasury. I don't see why it is shocking that SPADs could be jointly co-ordinated between the First Lord of the Treasury and the Chancellor of the Exchequer.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited February 2020
    Mysticrose said:

    tlg86 said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    I'm not sure that being seen as the tea boy will be conducive to Rishi Sunak's leadership prospects. He's evidently not going to be allowed to have opinions.

    I'm too young to remember, but was the same said of Major when he got the job?

    Yes. 'Thatcher's poodle' as I recall.

    And Rishi is 1000x more talented than John Major.

  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Mysticrose said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    I'm not sure that being seen as the tea boy will be conducive to Rishi Sunak's leadership prospects. He's evidently not going to be allowed to have opinions.

    Oh look, Alastair can't resist a snide and derogatory comment.

    Rishi is a highly talented individual.
    A highly talented individual who is not going to be allowed to have opinions. Number 10 has decided it is going to take over the Treasury.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,197
    What triangulation! Boris challenges Trump in dismissing appointees in short order, and emulates Putin for decisiveness.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,356
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    https://twitter.com/elliotttimes/status/1227932489903169542

    I take back my earlier comment about a coup de théâtre....

    And great tip by Philip.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,271
    Johnson has gone from Mr Bean to Stalin in a few short weeks.

    Javid has a right to feel aggrieved. He sold what passes for his soul to keep his job for it to come to naught.

    Sorry about Julian Smith though. He was one of the very few competents in Johnson's cabinet. It was why he was sacked, it seems.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    AlastairMeeks said:

    Mysticrose said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    I'm not sure that being seen as the tea boy will be conducive to Rishi Sunak's leadership prospects. He's evidently not going to be allowed to have opinions.

    Oh look, Alastair can't resist a snide and derogatory comment.

    Rishi is a highly talented individual.
    A highly talented individual who is not going to be allowed to have opinions. Number 10 has decided it is going to take over the Treasury.
    Why shouldn't the First Lord of the Treasury be responsible for the Treasury?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,621
    Gallowgate said:

    https://twitter.com/skynews/status/1196389533585199104?s=21

    The latest categorical assurance to go onto a very long list
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Of course the other person whose chances of being next leader have suddenly increased is Sajid Javid.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,706
    Stark_Dawning said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Still, Javid can look back to his Chancellorship with pride: he didn't make a single mistake in any of his Budgets. No other ex-Chancellor can say that.

    The curious question is why did Boris appoint him in the first place? Surely The Saj is no more obviously useless now than he was a few months ago. Was Boris just being lazy and unthinking back then. Was he always planning to humiliate the man? Weird.
    Wasn't it party unity as Saj was one of the contenders to take over from TM
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,790
    Philip_Thompson said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Mysticrose said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    I'm not sure that being seen as the tea boy will be conducive to Rishi Sunak's leadership prospects. He's evidently not going to be allowed to have opinions.

    Oh look, Alastair can't resist a snide and derogatory comment.

    Rishi is a highly talented individual.
    A highly talented individual who is not going to be allowed to have opinions. Number 10 has decided it is going to take over the Treasury.
    Why shouldn't the First Lord of the Treasury be responsible for the Treasury?
    So juvenile.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited February 2020
    FF43 said:



    Sorry about Julian Smith though. He was one of the very few competents in Johnson's cabinet. It was why he was sacked, it seems.

    Erm I'm sorry but he really wasn't. Julian may be a decent bloke but if you ask anyone close to the events he had terrible people skills, not only routinely forgetting people's names but an incapacity to engage with people in any social skills sense. Quite extraordinary in a Chief Whip. Less damaging in a NI Secretary. But, really, not up to the level Johnson-Cummings now want.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,602
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Of course the other person whose chances of being next leader have suddenly increased is Sajid Javid.

    Only if Brexit goes disastrously wrong and party members have a Damascene conversion and decide they want a soft Brexit and Remainer as leader
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,983
    My thoughts on this
    It was a great bet at 250-1 !
    15-2 looks like a hideous price right now
    Being Chancellor is a very distinguished job. His academic results show that he clearly has brains.
    However, he simply doesn't strike me as a PM.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,260
    RochdalePioneers said:

    Anorak said:

    RochdalePioneers said:

    Kudos to the Tories - successive Chancellors from the BAME community.

    I fundamentally disagree with a lot of their policies. But they are very good at promoting people based on talent and not race/gender/sexuality

    I'll bid you one Priti Patel, a moron.

    EDIT: if you change "talent" for "unquestioning loyalty", then I think you'd be spot on.
    1. Loyalty is a significant talent in politics
    2. Patel - another BAME politician in senior office - is utterly reprehensible from my position. However I hear of lots of new Tory supporters who think she is great. She gives them what they want.
    On point 2, of course she does. Compare and contrast with the wibble uttered by Diane Abbott who would have been holding that office if we'd have won.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,107
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Of course the other person whose chances of being next leader have suddenly increased is Sajid Javid.

    Indeed. A leader in waiting if Boris implodes or the real Conservative party stands up.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Gallowgate said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Mysticrose said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    I'm not sure that being seen as the tea boy will be conducive to Rishi Sunak's leadership prospects. He's evidently not going to be allowed to have opinions.

    Oh look, Alastair can't resist a snide and derogatory comment.

    Rishi is a highly talented individual.
    A highly talented individual who is not going to be allowed to have opinions. Number 10 has decided it is going to take over the Treasury.
    Why shouldn't the First Lord of the Treasury be responsible for the Treasury?
    So juvenile.
    Not really. Its a serious point.

    The Treasury is so powerful because it funds everything the government does. The First Lord of the Treasury became the Prime Minister for a reason and go back far enough and the First Lord of the Treasury had the same role as what we call the Chancellor today.

    The two co-ordinating together seems to me to be common sense.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,107
    Philip_Thompson said:

    NickPalmer said:

    viewcode said:

    Stark_Dawning said:

    Jonathan said:

    Honeymoon done.

    What a basket case.

    I doubt it will do Boris any immediate harm, but having the PM and Chancellor as effectively the same person has never been done in this country before. A fundamental 'belt-and-braces' arrangement in British politics has been abolished in an instant. This is huge news.
    Not really. Churchill was both Prime Minister and Minister of Defence simultaneously. You could get rid of all the Cabinet ministers and Government would continue (and arguably improve in the short term). It's Boris who forms the Government and he can do that how he pleases. As I said recently, the Prime Minister is a really powerful individual.
    The main issue here is time - there literally aren't enough hours in the day for one person to attend to everything important properly. Either they rely on good people around them to do it (and up to now there's been a theory that this was Boris's style) or they get into can-kicking for everything they don't have time for, or they make half-baked decisions. Option 1 is generally preferred for effective government.
    Suank is a good person. You want to rely upon good people yes, but you need to rely upon those good people to be pulling in the same direction as you want them to do so.

    The PM is First Lord of the Treasury. I don't see why it is shocking that SPADs could be jointly co-ordinated between the First Lord of the Treasury and the Chancellor of the Exchequer.
    The problem with this is that Boris has a junior yes man in no 11. There is no beast around the cabinet table with the authority to challenge bad decisions or ideas from the mind of Cummings.
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