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SystemSystem Posts: 12,678
edited April 2014 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The sight of big UKIP billboad posters might prompt political punters to go out an bet

Four and a half weeks to go now till the national election that could see the purples top the polls. Yet, as I have observed before, the May 22nd Euros have failed to attract all but nominal betting interest.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • NextNext Posts: 826
    edited April 2014
    "The ongoing ban on election TV advertising in the UK continues to put a massive dampener on campaigns."

    But would you want the election "bought" by whoever could afford the most TV ads?
  • isamisam Posts: 42,578
    Another one of the posters

    Steven Woolfe ‏@Steven_Woolfe 15h
    "Take back democracy" billboard from @UKIP pic.twitter.com/0LuYsSqXbl
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,764
    Anyone else seeing the parodies before the actual thing?

    http://pic.twitter.com/QtoIyYsxYp
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    The Sun ✔ @TheSunNewspaper

    BREAKING: David Moyes to be sacked by @ManUtd - the axe could fall before the weekend: http://bit.ly/1pmL523 #MUFC pic.twitter.com/AsAGNp18lr

  • isamisam Posts: 42,578
    edited April 2014
    And a little diddums Labour MP has called the posters "wacist"

    http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-04-21/nigel-farage-defends-racist-ukip-poster-campaign/

    "Racist" has to be the word that is used most incorrectly in political debate doesn't it? Pure 1984 style manipulation of words by the people setting the agenda. Aren't there many different races in the EU, most of whom are also present in Britain?

  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    @henrywinter

    End of the road for Moyes at #mufc: if you lose the dressing-room, you either sell the players or sack the manager. Cheaper to sack manager

  • AramintaMoonbeamQCAramintaMoonbeamQC Posts: 3,921
    I almost pulled the trigger on a Moyes next to leave bet this morning - there was still 3/1 to be had. Curses.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,297
    Would be bonkers to get rid of Moyes. He's had one season for heaven't sake - god let MUFC not turn into another revolving door-type club.

    Not that I don't want MUFC to lose every game they play - I do, just that this seems not appropriate behaviour.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    Tom Chivers ✔ @TomChivers

    Amazing watching all newspapers break the Moyes story at once. Top briefing-and-embargoing by Utd. Here's ours: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/10777985/David-Moyes-to-be-sacked-as-Manchester-United-manager-after-losing-support-of-the-clubs-Glazer-family-owners.html …

  • isamisam Posts: 42,578
    Nick Clegg says UKIP are the establishment.. and he is the "insurgent"

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/21/ukip-longstanding-eurosceptic-establishment-nick-clegg?CMP=twt_fd
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    FPT

    @Topping
    "Of course part of the increased investment may mean incentives to re-skill are higher and the incentive in any case to re-skill is significant..."

    True but the incentive is with the individual and not with the companies. Where is the incentive for the companies to actually train staff if they can just buy them in from abroad? The net result of current policies seems to be lots of bright, but not academic, British youngsters being shunted on to the dole for life and with all the hopelessness, substance abuse, single parent families and health costs that entails. The present policies will not lead to a net benefit for the "host country", but it may lead to a net benefit for the buggers who run the companies that benefit from it.

    Might I suggest that if the UK wants sustained growth then it needs to sort out its education system, and that means more than just schools. Having youngsters coming out at 18 and straight onto the dole because there are no training places available to them is a recipe for long term trouble not long term benefit.
  • NinoinozNinoinoz Posts: 1,312
    TOPPING said:

    Would be bonkers to get rid of Moyes. He's had one season for heaven't sake - god let MUFC not turn into another revolving door-type club.

    Yeah, just like that Chelsea and Real Madrid. MUFC should follow the Arsenal template of backing a specialist in failure.

    No, scrap that. Arsene Wenger has won many trophies, Moyes has won sweet FA.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    "The ongoing ban on election TV advertising in the UK continues to put a massive dampener on campaigns."

    UKIP are supposed to be spending a lot on internet advertising too.

    http://www.ukip.org/ukip_has_just_launched_its_biggest_ever_advertising_campaign

    I'm currently being displayed an advert for bicycle racks.
  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    isam said:

    And a little diddums Labour MP has called the posters "wacist"

    http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-04-21/nigel-farage-defends-racist-ukip-poster-campaign/

    "Racist" has to be the word that is used most incorrectly in political debate doesn't it? Pure 1984 style manipulation of words by the people setting the agenda. Aren't there many different races in the EU, most of whom are also present in Britain?

    Eh, the term has long drifted from its strict origins to include xenophobia etc.

    Not everything is 1984.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Great. So Norwich get to face a Man U team motivated to show their skills to whoever is going to take over next as manager. Just what we needed.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    "Understand UKIP posters designed by same firm that did the memorable #No2AV baby poster. Twitter was outraged with that as well. They won."

    twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/458137088131858432
  • isamisam Posts: 42,578
    corporeal said:

    isam said:

    And a little diddums Labour MP has called the posters "wacist"

    http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-04-21/nigel-farage-defends-racist-ukip-poster-campaign/

    "Racist" has to be the word that is used most incorrectly in political debate doesn't it? Pure 1984 style manipulation of words by the people setting the agenda. Aren't there many different races in the EU, most of whom are also present in Britain?

    Eh, the term has long drifted from its strict origins to include xenophobia etc.

    Not everything is 1984.
    It's just another example of the ruling elite changing what a word means but retaining the shock horror factor that the public get from the original meaning #poverty
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,297
    HurstLlama said:

    FPT

    @Topping
    "Of course part of the increased investment may mean incentives to re-skill are higher and the incentive in any case to re-skill is significant..."

    True but the incentive is with the individual and not with the companies. Where is the incentive for the companies to actually train staff if they can just buy them in from abroad? The net result of current policies seems to be lots of bright, but not academic, British youngsters being shunted on to the dole for life and with all the hopelessness, substance abuse, single parent families and health costs that entails. The present policies will not lead to a net benefit for the "host country", but it may lead to a net benefit for the buggers who run the companies that benefit from it.

    Might I suggest that if the UK wants sustained growth then it needs to sort out its education system, and that means more than just schools. Having youngsters coming out at 18 and straight onto the dole because there are no training places available to them is a recipe for long term trouble not long term benefit.

    I don't know whose point you were responding to; mine was that it is important to acknowledge that immigration isn't a win for everyone and the govt should focus on those who are disadvantaged by it.

    Education, as you suggest, would be one such way.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,886
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/8994068/Diane-Abbott-White-people-love-playing-divide-and-rule.html

    The UKIP posters will be lapped up by some and laughed at by others. But UKIP don't care about the centre ground of politics but common ground with potential voters. The parodies may well be amusing, but if you're working class and worried about being undercut they won't impress you much.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    FPT, but more relevant to this thread:

    Interesting UKIP posters. They are well done, but it's a bit odd that they've gone in so hard on unemployment, for two reasons. Firstly unemployment is not particularly high and is falling. Secondly they are on dodgy ground if their argument is that EU membership reduces UK employment; do they really want to give their opponents an opportunity to talk (perhaps disingenuously) about how many jobs would be lost if we left the EU?

    Anyway, it's all rather academic, given that they are working for a Miliband government and therefore to keep us in the EU.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,096
    Rumours surrounding Moyes...
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,781
    anotherDave said:

    "The ongoing ban on election TV advertising in the UK continues to put a massive dampener on campaigns."

    UKIP are supposed to be spending a lot on internet advertising too.

    http://www.ukip.org/ukip_has_just_launched_its_biggest_ever_advertising_campaign

    I'm currently being displayed an advert for bicycle racks.

    I'm getting one on immgration...to Canada. Someone trying to tell me something?

    The trick with posters is to get them talked about without being so horrible that they help your opponents more than you. "Are you thinking what we're thinking?" got talked about but arguably backfired, because it sounded sly (We agree with your prejudices but don't quite dare to say so") and mobilised opposition: it helped us get out disillusioned middle-class Labour voters in a big way. But UKIP aren't trying for 40-50%, so they won't care if they mobilise Guardian readers like me.

    Really 90% of UKIP's challenge is simply to stay in the news. If they do, they'll do well next month.

  • isamisam Posts: 42,578
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    FPT, but more relevant to this thread:

    Interesting UKIP posters. They are well done, but it's a bit odd that they've gone in so hard on unemployment, for two reasons. Firstly unemployment is not particularly high and is falling. Secondly they are on dodgy ground if their argument is that EU membership reduces UK employment; do they really want to give their opponents an opportunity to talk (perhaps disingenuously) about how many jobs would be lost if we left the EU?

    Anyway, it's all rather academic, given that they are working for a Miliband government and therefore to keep us in the EU.

    Shall we have a small bet on whether Labour offer a referendum in their 2015 manifesto?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited April 2014
    isam said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    FPT, but more relevant to this thread:

    Interesting UKIP posters. They are well done, but it's a bit odd that they've gone in so hard on unemployment, for two reasons. Firstly unemployment is not particularly high and is falling. Secondly they are on dodgy ground if their argument is that EU membership reduces UK employment; do they really want to give their opponents an opportunity to talk (perhaps disingenuously) about how many jobs would be lost if we left the EU?

    Anyway, it's all rather academic, given that they are working for a Miliband government and therefore to keep us in the EU.

    Shall we have a small bet on whether Labour offer a referendum in their 2015 manifesto?
    Sure, evens OK? Name the stake.

    Edit: I have to go out for a few hours but I'll check back later.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/8994068/Diane-Abbott-White-people-love-playing-divide-and-rule.html

    The UKIP posters will be lapped up by some and laughed at by others. But UKIP don't care about the centre ground of politics but common ground with potential voters. The parodies may well be amusing, but if you're working class and worried about being undercut they won't impress you much.

    I am neither working class nor 'worried about being undercut' - but I'm also not at all impressed by the sneering metropolitan elitist sneering of the parodies.

  • TwistedFireStopperTwistedFireStopper Posts: 2,538
    Pulpstar said:

    Rumours surrounding Moyes...

    #prayformoyes

  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    you can get 40-1 on Moyes being next spurs manager in some places still...

    just saying.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,578
    edited April 2014
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    isam said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    FPT, but more relevant to this thread:

    Interesting UKIP posters. They are well done, but it's a bit odd that they've gone in so hard on unemployment, for two reasons. Firstly unemployment is not particularly high and is falling. Secondly they are on dodgy ground if their argument is that EU membership reduces UK employment; do they really want to give their opponents an opportunity to talk (perhaps disingenuously) about how many jobs would be lost if we left the EU?

    Anyway, it's all rather academic, given that they are working for a Miliband government and therefore to keep us in the EU.

    Shall we have a small bet on whether Labour offer a referendum in their 2015 manifesto?
    Sure, evens OK? Name the stake.
    Hmm try again with the odds!

    Lets not be greedy or snidey, play a straight bat... what do you think is a reasonable price?
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited April 2014
    NickPalmer said:


    Really 90% of UKIP's challenge is simply to stay in the news. If they do, they'll do well next month.

    I recall an article on the Conservative Party's 2015 election strategy that included 'keeping UKIP out of the news' as part of their plan for election victory. I doubt that bullet point ever grew any sub-headings.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,527
    I'm not sure about no. 3. I think that UKIP may be going a little bit too far.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    NickPalmer said:


    I'm getting one on immgration...to Canada. Someone trying to tell me something?

    I'm getting US anti-gun-control adverts and US pro-voter-ID petition links.

    Someone at GoogleAds has got me pretty much spot on.

  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    edited April 2014
    I've put the max. on Moyes being Spurs manager next.. at 40-1... with SkyBet.

    We were rumoured to have him on our list pre AVB. And of course it went well taking Chelsea's cast off didn't it... oh.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    isam said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    FPT, but more relevant to this thread:

    Interesting UKIP posters. They are well done, but it's a bit odd that they've gone in so hard on unemployment, for two reasons. Firstly unemployment is not particularly high and is falling. Secondly they are on dodgy ground if their argument is that EU membership reduces UK employment; do they really want to give their opponents an opportunity to talk (perhaps disingenuously) about how many jobs would be lost if we left the EU?

    Anyway, it's all rather academic, given that they are working for a Miliband government and therefore to keep us in the EU.

    Shall we have a small bet on whether Labour offer a referendum in their 2015 manifesto?
    They will decide very late. Most likely they will use Miliband's form of words which is: Non !
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/8994068/Diane-Abbott-White-people-love-playing-divide-and-rule.html

    The UKIP posters will be lapped up by some and laughed at by others. But UKIP don't care about the centre ground of politics but common ground with potential voters. The parodies may well be amusing, but if you're working class and worried about being undercut they won't impress you much.

    I would write an insightful response, but would rather go and jump in muddy puddles instead
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    FPT
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Interesting UKIP posters. They are well done, but it's a bit odd that they've gone in so hard on unemployment, for two reasons. Firstly unemployment is not particularly high and is falling. Secondly they are on dodgy ground if their argument is that EU membership reduces UK employment; do they really want to give their opponents an opportunity to talk (perhaps disingenuously) about how many jobs would be lost if we left the EU?

    Anyway, it's all rather academic, given that they are working for a Miliband government and therefore to keep us in the EU.

    They aren't working for a Miliband government but they may cause one to occur and they are certainly expecting one.
    From a rather poor interview over at the usually excellent Breitbart:

    http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/04/20/Fishing-With-Farage

    "...I asked him if he believes that there will be an EU referendum in the next parliament.
    “Oh yes. There has to be. UKIP has done too well. Miliband will have to offer a referendum.
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    FPT-

    [UKIP are going to make trying to predict the 2015 result a lot more entertaining. Journalists should be out campaigning for UKIP!]

    Some already are!

    https://twitter.com/oflynndirector

    I bailed out of Netflix to find the Moyes news - I just hope not too many Sun journos read PB. My pro-moyles post was almost within half an hour...
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    edmundintokyo said:

    Anyone else seeing the parodies before the actual thing?

    http://pic.twitter.com/QtoIyYsxYp

    I thought 'a picture is worth a thousand words....'

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    CarlottaVance said:

    edmundintokyo said:

    Anyone else seeing the parodies before the actual thing?

    http://pic.twitter.com/QtoIyYsxYp

    I thought 'a picture is worth a thousand words....'

    If you want to see pictures of large p**ises, romanian or otherwise, I fear you are on the wrong site...
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    edited April 2014
    There's more:

    twitter.com/UkipBillboards/status/458213840594161664/photo/1
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Next said:

    "The ongoing ban on election TV advertising in the UK continues to put a massive dampener on campaigns."

    But would you want the election "bought" by whoever could afford the most TV ads?

    I am strongly against moneyed interests buying politics, but we could certainly do this in a fair way: limit any single donation to £1000 and only allow UK registered voters to give money to political campaigns during election periods.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Charles said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    edmundintokyo said:

    Anyone else seeing the parodies before the actual thing?

    http://pic.twitter.com/QtoIyYsxYp

    I thought 'a picture is worth a thousand words....'

    If you want to see pictures of large p**ises, romanian or otherwise, I fear you are on the wrong site...
    There are plenty of ways of suggesting things without showing them.....two cucumbers of differing lengths, for example......

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,367
    Someone is going to have to spend £150m at OT this summer. Thank goodness it will not be David Moyes.

    United will be looking for an early replacement so that the preliminary work can be done by the time the transfer window opens. With the benefit of hindsight the indecision and the absolutely absurd money spent on Fellani were warning signs that should have been picked up earlier.

    Next year Man U will be in the same position that Liverpool have been this year with no european football to worry about. I am tempted to stick some money on them for the league.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    GeoffM said:

    FPT

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Interesting UKIP posters. They are well done, but it's a bit odd that they've gone in so hard on unemployment, for two reasons. Firstly unemployment is not particularly high and is falling. Secondly they are on dodgy ground if their argument is that EU membership reduces UK employment; do they really want to give their opponents an opportunity to talk (perhaps disingenuously) about how many jobs would be lost if we left the EU?

    Anyway, it's all rather academic, given that they are working for a Miliband government and therefore to keep us in the EU.

    They aren't working for a Miliband government but they may cause one to occur and they are certainly expecting one.
    From a rather poor interview over at the usually excellent Breitbart:

    http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/04/20/Fishing-With-Farage

    "...I asked him if he believes that there will be an EU referendum in the next parliament.
    “Oh yes. There has to be. UKIP has done too well. Miliband will have to offer a referendum.
    He thinks there'll be a referendum if both the Conservatives and Labour offer one.

    "The way to get a referendum on Europe," he tells me, "is to beat Labour in May and force Ed Miliband to promise a vote on Europe if he becomes Prime Minister.

    “If both the big parties promise a referendum, we should get one. That's why all our concentration is on Labour in the next few weeks"

    http://www.channel5.com/shows/5-news/blogs/blog-nigel-farage-targets-labour-to-force-referendum-on-europe
  • isamisam Posts: 42,578
    edited April 2014
    CarlottaVance said:

    There's more:

    twitter.com/UkipBillboards/status/458213840594161664/photo/1

    Another example of smart arse lefty "humour" that will only strengthen the resolve of people whose lives are affected by mass immigration to vote UKIP

    The parodies are their Clegg to UKIP's Farage

    Keep 'em coming!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,886
    Mr. Dave, I'll believe it when I see it. All three major parties promised a treaty referendum. The reds and yellows reneged because the EU altered the title and changed the font.
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    TOPPING said:

    Would be bonkers to get rid of Moyes. He's had one season for heaven't sake - god let MUFC not turn into another revolving door-type club.

    Not that I don't want MUFC to lose every game they play - I do, just that this seems not appropriate behaviour.

    Without referring to the Moyes case specifically there's an 'all must win prizes' mentality among the foreign billionaires who now own our major clubs. As there are only four trophies that can be won in any one season, it's not possible for everyone to have success every year, hence the revolving door fiasco that has undermined football. Fans of the New Football also have to take their share of the blame, whinging if they don't get instant and perennial success. How hard life must be for fans of Utd - one bad season after years of wall to wall success.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    SeanT said:

    There is a blog to be written on the Sneering Classes - and those who sneer at these UIKP billboards are representative.

    All they do is Sneer. All they CAN do is Sneer. They are entirely unproductive in any other way, but they are great at sneering. They sneer at the poor, the uneducated, the rightwing, the Tory, the royalist, the patriotic, the white, the working class, the lower middle class, the provincials, the English, the British, the Christian. They Live to Sneer. That is what they do. That is all they do.

    The Sneerers are the intellectual "elite" of the Lib Dems and the Labour Party, and they are the absolute scum of the earth.

    Just the Lib Dems and Labour, what about Mr Cameron talking about "fruitcakes and closet racists"? Or mocking civil liberties advocates as being "airy fairy"?
  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    isam said:

    corporeal said:

    isam said:

    And a little diddums Labour MP has called the posters "wacist"

    http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-04-21/nigel-farage-defends-racist-ukip-poster-campaign/

    "Racist" has to be the word that is used most incorrectly in political debate doesn't it? Pure 1984 style manipulation of words by the people setting the agenda. Aren't there many different races in the EU, most of whom are also present in Britain?

    Eh, the term has long drifted from its strict origins to include xenophobia etc.

    Not everything is 1984.
    It's just another example of the ruling elite changing what a word means but retaining the shock horror factor that the public get from the original meaning #poverty
    Isam, we went through this other day with poverty, and I (amongst others) pointed out that that usage of the word poverty had been around for centuries.

    The meaning of words evolves without needing an elite conspiracy.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    isam said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    There's more:

    https://twitter.com/UkipBillboards/status/458213840594161664/photo/1

    Another example of smart arse lefty "humour" that will only strengthen the resolve of people whose lives are affected by mass immigration to vote UKIP

    The parodies are their Clegg to UKIP's Farage

    Keep 'em coming!
    Yes, I suspect those who dislike UKIP will chuckle and feel reassured in their superiority - those angry UKIP supporters who feel patronised by 'the establishment' will feel angrier that an issue they care deeply about is being trivialised.....the question is, what happens to the UKIP considerer who is not propelled by rage?
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    @isam Is it true what they say about Ukip men?
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    @isam

    The parodies posted so far aren't even funny. "UKIP say high immigration threatens jobs, well that's just like saying immigrants want to eat babies HAHAHAH."

  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    NickPalmer said:

    anotherDave said:

    "The ongoing ban on election TV advertising in the UK continues to put a massive dampener on campaigns."

    UKIP are supposed to be spending a lot on internet advertising too.

    http://www.ukip.org/ukip_has_just_launched_its_biggest_ever_advertising_campaign

    I'm currently being displayed an advert for bicycle racks.

    I'm getting one on immgration...to Canada. Someone trying to tell me something?

    The trick with posters is to get them talked about without being so horrible that they help your opponents more than you. "Are you thinking what we're thinking?" got talked about but arguably backfired, because it sounded sly (We agree with your prejudices but don't quite dare to say so") and mobilised opposition: it helped us get out disillusioned middle-class Labour voters in a big way. But UKIP aren't trying for 40-50%, so they won't care if they mobilise Guardian readers like me.

    Really 90% of UKIP's challenge is simply to stay in the news. If they do, they'll do well next month.

    The Evening Standard are playing along

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/ukip-posters-nigel-farage-says-criticism-is-coming-from-the-chattering-classes-9273208.html

    YouGov's London EU Parliament poll had UKIP on 24%.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    I wonder if someone in UKIP is trawling the court records to find a rape case involving a Romanian man.......
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    That spoof is UKIPesque in the way that it distorts facts about the EU:

    http://www.bilerico.com/images/European-penis-length.jpeg
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    CarlottaVance said:

    I wonder if someone in UKIP is trawling the court records to find a rape case involving a Romanian man.......

    They really are thinking what you lot used to be thinking!

  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    MikeSmithson said:

    @isam Is it true what they say about Ukip men?

    That they are more intelligent than LibDems? It's a low hurdle.


  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    @Mike Simithson
    The ongoing ban on election TV advertising in the UK continues to put a massive dampener on campaigns."

    But the UKIP Twitter campaign is in full swing and has been for a few days now. While the internet cannot yet match TV's massive audience, thats where the future of campaigning is.

  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    "The ongoing ban on election TV advertising in the UK continues to put a massive dampener on campaigns."

    Given the amount of ire that a 5 min PPB generates (from viewers being bored) I would say the ban is probably a good thing.
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    antifrank said:

    That spoof is UKIPesque in the way that it distorts facts about the EU:

    http://www.bilerico.com/images/European-penis-length.jpeg

    No data from Moldova, Lithuania or Latvia. Any volunteers for people to fly to these countries with a ruler to fill in the blanks?
  • isamisam Posts: 42,578
    corporeal said:

    isam said:

    corporeal said:

    isam said:

    And a little diddums Labour MP has called the posters "wacist"

    http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-04-21/nigel-farage-defends-racist-ukip-poster-campaign/

    "Racist" has to be the word that is used most incorrectly in political debate doesn't it? Pure 1984 style manipulation of words by the people setting the agenda. Aren't there many different races in the EU, most of whom are also present in Britain?

    Eh, the term has long drifted from its strict origins to include xenophobia etc.

    Not everything is 1984.
    It's just another example of the ruling elite changing what a word means but retaining the shock horror factor that the public get from the original meaning #poverty
    Isam, we went through this other day with poverty, and I (amongst others) pointed out that that usage of the word poverty had been around for centuries.

    The meaning of words evolves without needing an elite conspiracy.
    This all comes down to Hedgehogs and Foxes, like so many things nowadays

    The vast majority of ordinary people think racism is being horrible to someone of a different race, and poverty is being so poor you can barely afford to exist

    A small percentage of clever clogs know it alls like to dance on the head of a pin and confuse everything so it means nothing or everything..

    Thankfully people are starting to turn their backs on the parties that promote the misuse of language for propaganda purposes
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    Sky - Giggs favourite to replace Moyes.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,578
    CarlottaVance said:

    isam said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    There's more:

    https://twitter.com/UkipBillboards/status/458213840594161664/photo/1

    Another example of smart arse lefty "humour" that will only strengthen the resolve of people whose lives are affected by mass immigration to vote UKIP

    The parodies are their Clegg to UKIP's Farage

    Keep 'em coming!
    Yes, I suspect those who dislike UKIP will chuckle and feel reassured in their superiority - those angry UKIP supporters who feel patronised by 'the establishment' will feel angrier that an issue they care deeply about is being trivialised.....the question is, what happens to the UKIP considerer who is not propelled by rage?
    Hmm, I don't know... all will be revealed in May I suppose!
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    FPT.
    anotherDave said:
    » show previous quotes
    Did the Greens expel that 'coconut' bod?

    The comments underneath the Standard and Telegraph pieces are, in a rough count, running 4 to 1 for UKIP. What a transformation in less than 18 months.
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    Sky -

    Lorna - [Is the stock market in America a factor?]

    Charlie - [Yes, maybe]
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    GeoffM said:

    MikeSmithson said:

    @isam Is it true what they say about Ukip men?

    That they are more intelligent than LibDems? It's a low hurdle.


    Sadly not, 108.2 to 101.1:

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/2008/nov/03/greenpolitics-liberaldemocrats
  • isamisam Posts: 42,578
    MikeSmithson said:

    @isam Is it true what they say about Ukip men?

    What this? I try my best!

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/mad-mad-world/UK-politician-awarded-7-Up-bottle-for-bedding-woman-7-times-in-one-night/articleshow/32157497.cms
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,367
    MikeK said:

    FPT.
    anotherDave said:
    » show previous quotes
    Did the Greens expel that 'coconut' bod?

    The comments underneath the Standard and Telegraph pieces are, in a rough count, running 4 to 1 for UKIP. What a transformation in less than 18 months.

    You're right. Until recently UKIP could count on the comments in the telegraph being at least 10-1 in their favour. Tories are coming home right enough.

  • isamisam Posts: 42,578
    Socrates said:

    @isam

    The parodies posted so far aren't even funny. "UKIP say high immigration threatens jobs, well that's just like saying immigrants want to eat babies HAHAHAH."

    I found that kind of humour quite funny in the 80s on Channel 4s Saturday Night Live etc

    But I wasn't even a teenager then

  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    edited April 2014
    isam said:

    corporeal said:

    isam said:

    corporeal said:

    isam said:

    And a little diddums Labour MP has called the posters "wacist"

    http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-04-21/nigel-farage-defends-racist-ukip-poster-campaign/

    "Racist" has to be the word that is used most incorrectly in political debate doesn't it? Pure 1984 style manipulation of words by the people setting the agenda. Aren't there many different races in the EU, most of whom are also present in Britain?

    Eh, the term has long drifted from its strict origins to include xenophobia etc.

    Not everything is 1984.
    It's just another example of the ruling elite changing what a word means but retaining the shock horror factor that the public get from the original meaning #poverty
    Isam, we went through this other day with poverty, and I (amongst others) pointed out that that usage of the word poverty had been around for centuries.

    The meaning of words evolves without needing an elite conspiracy.
    This all comes down to Hedgehogs and Foxes, like so many things nowadays

    The vast majority of ordinary people think racism is being horrible to someone of a different race, and poverty is being so poor you can barely afford to exist

    A small percentage of clever clogs know it alls like to dance on the head of a pin and confuse everything so it means nothing or everything..

    Thankfully people are starting to turn their backs on the parties that promote the misuse of language for propaganda purposes

    Now you're just making claims without basis.

    I'd suggest that the vast majority of ordinary people would use racism in its broad sense rather than making technical distinctions between racism and xenophobia.

    Indeed "that's not racism it's xenophobia" sounds rather like a clever clogs dancing on the head of pin in your terms.
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    Neil said:

    antifrank said:

    That spoof is UKIPesque in the way that it distorts facts about the EU:

    http://www.bilerico.com/images/European-penis-length.jpeg

    No data from Moldova, Lithuania or Latvia. Any volunteers for people to fly to these countries with a ruler to fill in the blanks?
    It does make you wonder how this data is collected. Did an army of, erm, willy assessors head to France and declare their men the most well hung in Europe?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    antifrank said:

    That spoof is UKIPesque in the way that it distorts facts about the EU:

    http://www.bilerico.com/images/European-penis-length.jpeg

    Change it to Bulgarian and they'll be fine - of course the real question is what if you disaggregate the constituent countries of the UK.......

    I suppose if waving them made them bigger.......

    :Innocent Face:
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    @Neil

    Edit - I see Well-Hungary eclipses even Francefurters.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Neil said:

    GeoffM said:

    MikeSmithson said:

    @isam Is it true what they say about Ukip men?

    That they are more intelligent than LibDems? It's a low hurdle.


    Sadly not, 108.2 to 101.1:

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/2008/nov/03/greenpolitics-liberaldemocrats
    Sandwiched between the SNP and BNP......ouch!

  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited April 2014
    CarlottaVance said:

    I wonder if someone in UKIP is trawling the court records to find a rape case involving a Romanian man.......

    Included in the UKIP 2014 manifesto.

    "An Open Door To Crime
    28,000 Romanians are held for crimes in London. Romanians come second on the list of foreign nationals arrested by police for serious crimes.

    This includes 142 rapes, 10 murders, 666 sex crimes, 303 robberies, 1370 burglaries, 2902 acts of violence."

    http://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/themes/5308a93901925b5b09000002/attachments/original/1397750311/localmanifesto2014.pdf
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    SeanT said:

    The spoofs are so bad and misjudged they will make people want to vote UKIP even more.

    Lefty cretins do not begin to understand the appeal of UKIP. Farage's party sell themselves as the anti-establishment, non-PC party, the ONLY party prepared to speak the truth (mass immigration depresses wages, makes life harder for native locals, etc etc). You can argue the case, or not (I'd say the debate is finely balanced) but patronisingly attacking UKIP for even daring to mention immigration positively reinforces the UKIP position.

    Unbelievably stupid.

    The best way to attack UKIP is to make them look like moneygrubbing eurokrauts and scrounging politicians, just like everyone else in Brussels/London/Strasbourg. That was a deft angle of assault.

    This is totally NOT.

    At this rate, I can see UKIP winning in May.

    Anything that boosts Ukip is great news from a leftie perspective Sean.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    DavidL said:

    MikeK said:

    FPT.
    anotherDave said:
    » show previous quotes
    Did the Greens expel that 'coconut' bod?

    The comments underneath the Standard and Telegraph pieces are, in a rough count, running 4 to 1 for UKIP. What a transformation in less than 18 months.

    You're right. Until recently UKIP could count on the comments in the telegraph being at least 10-1 in their favour. Tories are coming home right enough.

    The Tories are losing it, and you know it.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,335
    UKIP are to announce David Moyes as their new strategist, as he will get them out of Europe within 11 months.
  • timmotimmo Posts: 1,469
    What was it Ghandi said " First they ignore you,then they life at you,then they fight you,then you win"
    This is precisely the lefts approach to. UKIP...
    Before you know it UKIP will wn"..
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    timmo said:

    What was it Ghandi said " First they ignore you,then they life at you,then they fight you,then you win"
    This is precisely the lefts approach to. UKIP...
    Before you know it UKIP will wn"..

    It was actually a trade unionist, and the quote ends "then they build monuments to you". The quote is excellent nonetheless.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    I like the EU/Union flag poster

    http://www.ukip.org/ukip_national_billboard_campaign
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    The posters are failures on the basic level of truth. You don't see builders begging. No one, not even the most fervent Kipper, believes that the 26 million unemployed of the EU all want their job. The public may sympathise with the message, but will also recognise that it is way over the top.

    When voters vote seriously (which they won't in the EU elections), they will remember that UKIP is not a serious party. If UKIP's aim is to top the poll in May by tapping into a mood of discontent, these posters may help them. But these will hinder their cause in May 2015, not help them.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,704
    dr_spyn said:

    UKIP are to announce David Moyes as their new strategist, as he will get them out of Europe within 11 months.

    Ouch!!
  • SmarmeronSmarmeron Posts: 5,099
    edited April 2014
    How long before some wag photoshops Farage's face over the eurocrats?

    (won't be me....I use Gimp*)

    *Graphics image manipulation program you bunch of pervs!
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    JBriskin said:

    Sky - Giggs favourite to replace Moyes.

    Really hope it's Mourinho,
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,583
    edited April 2014
    antifrank said:

    The posters are failures on the basic level of truth. You don't see builders begging. No one, not even the most fervent Kipper, believes that the 26 million unemployed of the EU all want their job. The public may sympathise with the message, but will also recognise that it is way over the top.

    Wrong on both counts. You do not know the former professions of those begging so you have no way of knowing whether they were builders or not. And I have little doubt that most of those 26 million unemployed in the EU would seriously consider taking a job in the UK if they could get it. Of course there are not 26 million, 2.6 million or even 260,000 unemployed necessarily heading our way but the basic idea that with free movement of people they are all potentially looking for the same work - particularly given the recent history of migration to the UK from the EU in search of work - is a sound one.

    And many people - particularly those on areas of employment which are already making use of large numbers of non-UK workers - will recognise the underlying truth of this.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,015
    anotherDave said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    I wonder if someone in UKIP is trawling the court records to find a rape case involving a Romanian man.......

    Included in the UKIP 2014 manifesto.

    "An Open Door To Crime
    28,000 Romanians are held for crimes in London. Romanians come second on the list of foreign nationals arrested by police for serious crimes.

    This includes 142 rapes, 10 murders, 666 sex crimes, 303 robberies, 1370 burglaries, 2902 acts of violence."

    http://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/themes/5308a93901925b5b09000002/attachments/original/1397750311/localmanifesto2014.pdf
    Is that claim really true? Have they mixed up individual people with individual crimes?

    Does anyone have the data?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    The 26 million poster strikes me as profoundly dishonest. The others work very well though.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    isam said:

    corporeal said:

    isam said:

    corporeal said:

    isam said:

    And a little diddums Labour MP has called the posters "wacist"

    http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-04-21/nigel-farage-defends-racist-ukip-poster-campaign/

    "Racist" has to be the word that is used most incorrectly in political debate doesn't it? Pure 1984 style manipulation of words by the people setting the agenda. Aren't there many different races in the EU, most of whom are also present in Britain?

    Eh, the term has long drifted from its strict origins to include xenophobia etc.

    Not everything is 1984.
    It's just another example of the ruling elite changing what a word means but retaining the shock horror factor that the public get from the original meaning #poverty
    Isam, we went through this other day with poverty, and I (amongst others) pointed out that that usage of the word poverty had been around for centuries.

    The meaning of words evolves without needing an elite conspiracy.
    This all comes down to Hedgehogs and Foxes, like so many things nowadays

    The vast majority of ordinary people think racism is being horrible to someone of a different race, and poverty is being so poor you can barely afford to exist

    A small percentage of clever clogs know it alls like to dance on the head of a pin and confuse everything so it means nothing or everything..

    Thankfully people are starting to turn their backs on the parties that promote the misuse of language for propaganda purposes
    Ah, for a LIKE button here. Spot on. Nobody can seriously disagree with this.

  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    GeoffM said:

    isam said:

    corporeal said:

    isam said:

    corporeal said:

    isam said:

    And a little diddums Labour MP has called the posters "wacist"

    http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-04-21/nigel-farage-defends-racist-ukip-poster-campaign/

    "Racist" has to be the word that is used most incorrectly in political debate doesn't it? Pure 1984 style manipulation of words by the people setting the agenda. Aren't there many different races in the EU, most of whom are also present in Britain?

    Eh, the term has long drifted from its strict origins to include xenophobia etc.

    Not everything is 1984.
    It's just another example of the ruling elite changing what a word means but retaining the shock horror factor that the public get from the original meaning #poverty
    Isam, we went through this other day with poverty, and I (amongst others) pointed out that that usage of the word poverty had been around for centuries.

    The meaning of words evolves without needing an elite conspiracy.
    This all comes down to Hedgehogs and Foxes, like so many things nowadays

    The vast majority of ordinary people think racism is being horrible to someone of a different race, and poverty is being so poor you can barely afford to exist

    A small percentage of clever clogs know it alls like to dance on the head of a pin and confuse everything so it means nothing or everything..

    Thankfully people are starting to turn their backs on the parties that promote the misuse of language for propaganda purposes
    Ah, for a LIKE button here. Spot on. Nobody can seriously disagree with this.

    I already did.
    corporeal said:



    Now you're just making claims without basis.

    I'd suggest that the vast majority of ordinary people would use racism in its broad sense rather than making technical distinctions between racism and xenophobia.

    Indeed "that's not racism it's xenophobia" sounds rather like a clever clogs dancing on the head of pin in your terms.

  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,583
    JosiasJessop said:

    anotherDave said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    I wonder if someone in UKIP is trawling the court records to find a rape case involving a Romanian man.......

    Included in the UKIP 2014 manifesto.

    "An Open Door To Crime
    28,000 Romanians are held for crimes in London. Romanians come second on the list of foreign nationals arrested by police for serious crimes.

    This includes 142 rapes, 10 murders, 666 sex crimes, 303 robberies, 1370 burglaries, 2902 acts of violence."

    http://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/themes/5308a93901925b5b09000002/attachments/original/1397750311/localmanifesto2014.pdf
    Is that claim really true? Have they mixed up individual people with individual crimes?

    Does anyone have the data?
    Apparently it is from this data released by the Met as the result of an FOI request. I have not had a look at it myself. I started to scroll down and then kind of lost the will to live as the argument strikes me as rather pointless anyway.

    I was however amused to note that in 2009 apparently there were two crimes committed by people whose place of origin was described as 'Antarctica'. Must be those penguins from Madagascar up to no good :-)
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    Have had to bail out of Netflix again - I predict TV making a comeback.

    With regards to the 26 Mil. figure - I don't know (or particularly care) about the accuracy - but surely 50% youth unemployment rates are pretty scary.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    JosiasJessop said:

    anotherDave said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    I wonder if someone in UKIP is trawling the court records to find a rape case involving a Romanian man.......

    Included in the UKIP 2014 manifesto.

    "An Open Door To Crime
    28,000 Romanians are held for crimes in London. Romanians come second on the list of foreign nationals arrested by police for serious crimes.

    This includes 142 rapes, 10 murders, 666 sex crimes, 303 robberies, 1370 burglaries, 2902 acts of violence."

    http://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/themes/5308a93901925b5b09000002/attachments/original/1397750311/localmanifesto2014.pdf
    Is that claim really true? Have they mixed up individual people with individual crimes?

    Does anyone have the data?
    In 2013 there were 10.786 foreign nationals of all nationalities in prison in the UK . the 3 countries with the highest numbers were Irish Republic , Jamaica and Poland , so the claim is certainly false .
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,583
    MarkSenior said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    anotherDave said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    I wonder if someone in UKIP is trawling the court records to find a rape case involving a Romanian man.......

    Included in the UKIP 2014 manifesto.

    "An Open Door To Crime
    28,000 Romanians are held for crimes in London. Romanians come second on the list of foreign nationals arrested by police for serious crimes.

    This includes 142 rapes, 10 murders, 666 sex crimes, 303 robberies, 1370 burglaries, 2902 acts of violence."

    http://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/themes/5308a93901925b5b09000002/attachments/original/1397750311/localmanifesto2014.pdf
    Is that claim really true? Have they mixed up individual people with individual crimes?

    Does anyone have the data?
    In 2013 there were 10.786 foreign nationals of all nationalities in prison in the UK . the 3 countries with the highest numbers were Irish Republic , Jamaica and Poland , so the claim is certainly false .
    Nope the claim is not false since it was made about crime in London not crime in the UK as a whole. I will be generous and assume you made an honest mistake rather than an intentionally misleading statement. The full-fact check on this makes it clear that the figures are accurate.

    The only question is whether they are actually relevant to anything. That is something I have serious doubts about.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    corporeal said:

    GeoffM said:

    isam said:

    corporeal said:

    isam said:

    corporeal said:

    isam said:

    And a little diddums Labour MP has called the posters "wacist"

    http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-04-21/nigel-farage-defends-racist-ukip-poster-campaign/

    "Racist" has to be the word that is used most incorrectly in political debate doesn't it? Pure 1984 style manipulation of words by the people setting the agenda. Aren't there many different races in the EU, most of whom are also present in Britain?

    Eh, the term has long drifted from its strict origins to include xenophobia etc.

    Not everything is 1984.
    It's just another example of the ruling elite changing what a word means but retaining the shock horror factor that the public get from the original meaning #poverty
    Isam, we went through this other day with poverty, and I (amongst others) pointed out that that usage of the word poverty had been around for centuries.

    The meaning of words evolves without needing an elite conspiracy.
    This all comes down to Hedgehogs and Foxes, like so many things nowadays

    The vast majority of ordinary people think racism is being horrible to someone of a different race, and poverty is being so poor you can barely afford to exist

    A small percentage of clever clogs know it alls like to dance on the head of a pin and confuse everything so it means nothing or everything..

    Thankfully people are starting to turn their backs on the parties that promote the misuse of language for propaganda purposes
    Ah, for a LIKE button here. Spot on. Nobody can seriously disagree with this.

    I already did.
    corporeal said:



    Now you're just making claims without basis.

    I'd suggest that the vast majority of ordinary people would use racism in its broad sense rather than making technical distinctions between racism and xenophobia.

    Indeed "that's not racism it's xenophobia" sounds rather like a clever clogs dancing on the head of pin in your terms.

    Ah. I liked it so much I scrolled straight to the top to reply.

    Bit of luck I didn't stick with my initial version "Only a fool would disagree with this". That might have been awkward.

  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    Richard_Tyndall said:

    MarkSenior said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    anotherDave said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    I wonder if someone in UKIP is trawling the court records to find a rape case involving a Romanian man.......

    Included in the UKIP 2014 manifesto.

    "An Open Door To Crime
    28,000 Romanians are held for crimes in London. Romanians come second on the list of foreign nationals arrested by police for serious crimes.

    This includes 142 rapes, 10 murders, 666 sex crimes, 303 robberies, 1370 burglaries, 2902 acts of violence."

    http://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/themes/5308a93901925b5b09000002/attachments/original/1397750311/localmanifesto2014.pdf
    Is that claim really true? Have they mixed up individual people with individual crimes?

    Does anyone have the data?
    In 2013 there were 10.786 foreign nationals of all nationalities in prison in the UK . the 3 countries with the highest numbers were Irish Republic , Jamaica and Poland , so the claim is certainly false .
    Nope the claim is not false since it was made about crime in London not crime in the UK as a whole. I will be generous and assume you made an honest mistake rather than an intentionally misleading statement. The full-fact check on this makes it clear that the figures are accurate.

    The only question is whether they are actually relevant to anything. That is something I have serious doubts about.
    If there were only 10,000 odd foreign nationals of all nationalities in jail in the whole of the UK . there cannot be 28,000 Romanians being held in London , unless I suppose they are being held in the Hilton rather than Wormwood Scrubs .
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,015
    Richard_Tyndall said:

    MarkSenior said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    anotherDave said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    I wonder if someone in UKIP is trawling the court records to find a rape case involving a Romanian man.......

    Included in the UKIP 2014 manifesto.

    "An Open Door To Crime
    28,000 Romanians are held for crimes in London. Romanians come second on the list of foreign nationals arrested by police for serious crimes.

    This includes 142 rapes, 10 murders, 666 sex crimes, 303 robberies, 1370 burglaries, 2902 acts of violence."

    http://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/themes/5308a93901925b5b09000002/attachments/original/1397750311/localmanifesto2014.pdf
    Is that claim really true? Have they mixed up individual people with individual crimes?

    Does anyone have the data?
    In 2013 there were 10.786 foreign nationals of all nationalities in prison in the UK . the 3 countries with the highest numbers were Irish Republic , Jamaica and Poland , so the claim is certainly false .
    Nope the claim is not false since it was made about crime in London not crime in the UK as a whole. I will be generous and assume you made an honest mistake rather than an intentionally misleading statement. The full-fact check on this makes it clear that the figures are accurate.

    The only question is whether they are actually relevant to anything. That is something I have serious doubts about.
    The poster does seem misleading to me - it is not clear it is over a near-five year period, and it puts the 28,000 figure and then mentions 'serious crimes'.

    https://fullfact.org/factchecks/romanians_cash_machine_crime-29254
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    Richard_Tyndall said:

    MarkSenior said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    anotherDave said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    I wonder if someone in UKIP is trawling the court records to find a rape case involving a Romanian man.......

    Included in the UKIP 2014 manifesto.

    "An Open Door To Crime
    28,000 Romanians are held for crimes in London. Romanians come second on the list of foreign nationals arrested by police for serious crimes.

    This includes 142 rapes, 10 murders, 666 sex crimes, 303 robberies, 1370 burglaries, 2902 acts of violence."

    http://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/themes/5308a93901925b5b09000002/attachments/original/1397750311/localmanifesto2014.pdf
    Is that claim really true? Have they mixed up individual people with individual crimes?

    Does anyone have the data?
    In 2013 there were 10.786 foreign nationals of all nationalities in prison in the UK . the 3 countries with the highest numbers were Irish Republic , Jamaica and Poland , so the claim is certainly false .
    Nope the claim is not false since it was made about crime in London not crime in the UK as a whole. I will be generous and assume you made an honest mistake rather than an intentionally misleading statement. The full-fact check on this makes it clear that the figures are accurate.

    The only question is whether they are actually relevant to anything. That is something I have serious doubts about.

    Fact checks have established that 28,000 individual Romanians had been arrested and held for alleged crimes in London at the time the UKIP claim was made? That is an extraordinary figure.

  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    MarkSenior said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    MarkSenior said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    anotherDave said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    I wonder if someone in UKIP is trawling the court records to find a rape case involving a Romanian man.......

    Included in the UKIP 2014 manifesto.

    "An Open Door To Crime
    28,000 Romanians are held for crimes in London. Romanians come second on the list of foreign nationals arrested by police for serious crimes.

    This includes 142 rapes, 10 murders, 666 sex crimes, 303 robberies, 1370 burglaries, 2902 acts of violence."

    http://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/themes/5308a93901925b5b09000002/attachments/original/1397750311/localmanifesto2014.pdf
    Is that claim really true? Have they mixed up individual people with individual crimes?

    Does anyone have the data?
    In 2013 there were 10.786 foreign nationals of all nationalities in prison in the UK . the 3 countries with the highest numbers were Irish Republic , Jamaica and Poland , so the claim is certainly false .
    Nope the claim is not false since it was made about crime in London not crime in the UK as a whole. I will be generous and assume you made an honest mistake rather than an intentionally misleading statement. The full-fact check on this makes it clear that the figures are accurate.

    The only question is whether they are actually relevant to anything. That is something I have serious doubts about.
    If there were only 10,000 odd foreign nationals of all nationalities in jail in the whole of the UK . there cannot be 28,000 Romanians being held in London , unless I suppose they are being held in the Hilton rather than Wormwood Scrubs .
    Maybe you are conflating those arrested, i.e. held for a crime, and those imprisoned after a finding of guilt. The language may be archaic but the figures not necessarily false on that score.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    HurstLlama said:

    MarkSenior said:

    Richard_Tyndall said:

    MarkSenior said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    anotherDave said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    I wonder if someone in UKIP is trawling the court records to find a rape case involving a Romanian man.......

    Included in the UKIP 2014 manifesto.

    "An Open Door To Crime
    28,000 Romanians are held for crimes in London. Romanians come second on the list of foreign nationals arrested by police for serious crimes.

    This includes 142 rapes, 10 murders, 666 sex crimes, 303 robberies, 1370 burglaries, 2902 acts of violence."

    http://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/themes/5308a93901925b5b09000002/attachments/original/1397750311/localmanifesto2014.pdf
    Is that claim really true? Have they mixed up individual people with individual crimes?

    Does anyone have the data?
    In 2013 there were 10.786 foreign nationals of all nationalities in prison in the UK . the 3 countries with the highest numbers were Irish Republic , Jamaica and Poland , so the claim is certainly false .
    Nope the claim is not false since it was made about crime in London not crime in the UK as a whole. I will be generous and assume you made an honest mistake rather than an intentionally misleading statement. The full-fact check on this makes it clear that the figures are accurate.

    The only question is whether they are actually relevant to anything. That is something I have serious doubts about.
    If there were only 10,000 odd foreign nationals of all nationalities in jail in the whole of the UK . there cannot be 28,000 Romanians being held in London , unless I suppose they are being held in the Hilton rather than Wormwood Scrubs .
    Maybe you are conflating those arrested, i.e. held for a crime, and those imprisoned after a finding of guilt. The language may be archaic but the figures not necessarily false on that score.
    Perhaps it would help if the figures were presented in a bar chart?
  • isamisam Posts: 42,578
    corporeal said:

    isam said:

    corporeal said:

    isam said:

    corporeal said:

    isam said:

    And a little diddums Labour MP has called the posters "wacist"

    http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-04-21/nigel-farage-defends-racist-ukip-poster-campaign/

    "Racist" has to be the word that is used most incorrectly in political debate doesn't it? Pure 1984 style manipulation of words by the people setting the agenda. Aren't there many different races in the EU, most of whom are also present in Britain?

    Eh, the term has long drifted from its strict origins to include xenophobia etc.

    Not everything is 1984.
    It's just another example of the ruling elite changing what a word means but retaining the shock horror factor that the public get from the original meaning #poverty
    Isam, we went through this other day with poverty, and I (amongst others) pointed out that that usage of the word poverty had been around for centuries.

    The meaning of words evolves without needing an elite conspiracy.
    This all comes down to Hedgehogs and Foxes, like so many things nowadays

    The vast majority of ordinary people think racism is being horrible to someone of a different race, and poverty is being so poor you can barely afford to exist

    A small percentage of clever clogs know it alls like to dance on the head of a pin and confuse everything so it means nothing or everything..

    Thankfully people are starting to turn their backs on the parties that promote the misuse of language for propaganda purposes

    Now you're just making claims without basis.

    I'd suggest that the vast majority of ordinary people would use racism in its broad sense rather than making technical distinctions between racism and xenophobia.

    Indeed "that's not racism it's xenophobia" sounds rather like a clever clogs dancing on the head of pin in your terms.
    Racism in its broadest sense? What, you mean to make it mean whatever you want it to? Or to stop people being opposed to mass immigration?

    I would bet you at very, very short odds that if you went into a pub and asked people to define racism, many more then 75% would mention colour of skin. That is a deal breaker. If its not about race, why call it racism?

    You are just being ridiculous to win an argument with that last sentence? Why not be proud of being a nitpicker that sees nothing in clear and simple terms?
This discussion has been closed.

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