politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Why Johnson’s TV debate strategy could be a mistake

NickPalmer said:

People who've seen my posts will know i'm not going in for straw-clutching - I think there's huge Tory lead. But CorrectHorseBattery on the last thread picked up something potentially very important in the ICM poll, which showed a Tory lead of 6% before adjusting for turnout and 10% after. If you go to

https://www.icmunlimited.com/our-work/icm-voting-intentions-poll-general-election-2019-3/

and bring up the spreadsheet, then right-shift to show the extra cross-tabs, you find a column "Labour 2017 and majority

Does any other pollster give these crossbreaks, and do they also point to very efficient LAB defensive votes?

Does anyone know who these two light-fingered MPs are?

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10357609/mps-caught-stealing-furniture-election/

I think that we should be told, in the interests of transparency and open government.

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Corbyn has the ability to skewer Johnson on Brexit IMHO, if he can get him on the ropes in terms of what he intends to actually deliver.

So far it's "get Brexit done" but very few have asked "what the hell does that mean"?

Er, what? It means signing the deal he's agreed with the EU, leaving on or before 31 Jan, and then agreeing the trade agreement everyone says he can't get, having learnt nothing from being wrong about the deal he wasn't supposed to be able to get.

You really think clarity on Brexit is a strength for Corbyn?

Endillion said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Corbyn has the ability to skewer Johnson on Brexit IMHO, if he can get him on the ropes in terms of what he intends to actually deliver.

So far it's "get Brexit done" but very few have asked "what the hell does that mean"?

Er, what? It means signing the deal he's agreed with the EU, leaving on or before 31 Jan, and then agreeing the trade agreement everyone says he can't get, having learnt nothing from being wrong about the deal he wasn't supposed to be able to get.

You really think clarity on Brexit is a strength for Corbyn?

Corbyn couldn't care less about Brexit one way or another. He's neutral remember. He wants to talk about class war and socialist revolution. With Free broadband.

ozymandias said:

Endillion said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Corbyn has the ability to skewer Johnson on Brexit IMHO, if he can get him on the ropes in terms of what he intends to actually deliver.

So far it's "get Brexit done" but very few have asked "what the hell does that mean"?

Er, what? It means signing the deal he's agreed with the EU, leaving on or before 31 Jan, and then agreeing the trade agreement everyone says he can't get, having learnt nothing from being wrong about the deal he wasn't supposed to be able to get.

You really think clarity on Brexit is a strength for Corbyn?

Corbyn couldn't care less about Brexit one way or another. He's neutral remember. He wants to talk about class war and socialist revolution. With Free broadband.

At 30mbps.

dr_spyn said:

Is anyone else having issues trying to return to the site today?

No. On the contrary, I find leaving it to be the problem.

ydoethur said:

ozymandias said:

Endillion said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Corbyn has the ability to skewer Johnson on Brexit IMHO, if he can get him on the ropes in terms of what he intends to actually deliver.

So far it's "get Brexit done" but very few have asked "what the hell does that mean"?

Er, what? It means signing the deal he's agreed with the EU, leaving on or before 31 Jan, and then agreeing the trade agreement everyone says he can't get, having learnt nothing from being wrong about the deal he wasn't supposed to be able to get.

You really think clarity on Brexit is a strength for Corbyn?

Corbyn couldn't care less about Brexit one way or another. He's neutral remember. He wants to talk about class war and socialist revolution. With Free broadband.

At 30mbps.

Only for party members

CorrectHorseBattery said:

RobD said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Corbyn has the ability to skewer Johnson on Brexit IMHO, if he can get him on the ropes in terms of what he intends to actually deliver.

So far it's "get Brexit done" but very few have asked "what the hell does that mean"?

Don't you think Corbyn's position leaves him vulnerable on that subject?

I think Labour's position is honestly more clear than Johnson's.

I know Labour will end up with a soft EEA-style Brexit and it will be up against Remain.

I have no bloody clue what Johnson's will look like.

I accept the public don't agree - but that is up to Corbyn to prove otherwise.

Labour's position is clearer than Johnson's? You're having a laugh, aren't you?

TheScreamingEagles said:

ydoethur said:

ozymandias said:

Endillion said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Corbyn has the ability to skewer Johnson on Brexit IMHO, if he can get him on the ropes in terms of what he intends to actually deliver.

So far it's "get Brexit done" but very few have asked "what the hell does that mean"?

Er, what? It means signing the deal he's agreed with the EU, leaving on or before 31 Jan, and then agreeing the trade agreement everyone says he can't get, having learnt nothing from being wrong about the deal he wasn't supposed to be able to get.

You really think clarity on Brexit is a strength for Corbyn?

Corbyn couldn't care less about Brexit one way or another. He's neutral remember. He wants to talk about class war and socialist revolution. With Free broadband.

At 30mbps.

How do people cope with only 30 Mbps?

More than 30mbps is bourgeois.

ozymandias said:

Endillion said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Corbyn has the ability to skewer Johnson on Brexit IMHO, if he can get him on the ropes in terms of what he intends to actually deliver.

So far it's "get Brexit done" but very few have asked "what the hell does that mean"?

Er, what? It means signing the deal he's agreed with the EU, leaving on or before 31 Jan, and then agreeing the trade agreement everyone says he can't get, having learnt nothing from being wrong about the deal he wasn't supposed to be able to get.

You really think clarity on Brexit is a strength for Corbyn?

Corbyn couldn't care less about Brexit one way or another. He's neutral remember. He wants to talk about class war and socialist revolution. With Free broadband.

I think the first 30 min are on Brexit, sufficient for an uncomfortable level of detail for both concerned.

kle4 said:

dr_spyn said:

Is anyone else having issues trying to return to the site today?

No. On the contrary, I find leaving it to be the problem.

You can leave PB?

CorrectHorseBattery said:

spudgfsh said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Drutt said:

NickPalmer said:

People who've seen my posts will know i'm not going in for straw-clutching - I think there's huge Tory lead. But CorrectHorseBattery on the last thread picked up something potentially very important in the ICM poll, which showed a Tory lead of 6% before adjusting for turnout and 10% after. If you go to

https://www.icmunlimited.com/our-work/icm-voting-intentions-poll-general-election-2019-3/

and bring up the spreadsheet, then right-shift to show the extra cross-tabs, you find a column "Labour 2017 and majority

Does any other pollster give these crossbreaks, and do they also point to very efficient LAB defensive votes?

Interestingly that Twitter thread I posted kind of supports this conclusion. Of course it's most likely just a coincidence.

My feeling is the Tory vote is very strong - but in the wrong seats.

The thing is, with a 10%+ lead the Tories don't need to be very efficient to win a majority, it'll just happen.

If you take a seat predictor, electoral calculus say, and put in the 2010 percentages in you won't get the 2010 result. There's a structural element to swing and this always goes for the party which is winning. especially if they are winning by 10%+

If that lead drops though, then they're in trouble.

I would be surprised if this is the lead in two weeks time.

I think if in a week's time there's no change, then Labour are in real trouble.

People keep making the mistake of looking at the current GE through the lens of the last one. it doesn't work like that. I do suspect that there will be an uptick in labour support because of labour voters who are currently saying don't know. JC is much better known now, there are no adoring masses. he's put too many of them off. even earlier in the year he had to bus them in

Mexicanpete said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

https://twitter.com/paulbranditv/status/1196526284677009408?s=21

Take with as much salt as you wish

All of Cheshire?

Soulds like an effort to stem the tide to me.. but i am.not canvassing for anyone...

NickPalmer said:

People who've seen my posts will know i'm not going in for straw-clutching - I think there's huge Tory lead. But CorrectHorseBattery on the last thread picked up something potentially very important in the ICM poll, which showed a Tory lead of 6% before adjusting for turnout and 10% after. If you go to

https://www.icmunlimited.com/our-work/icm-voting-intentions-poll-general-election-2019-3/

and bring up the spreadsheet, then right-shift to show the extra cross-tabs, you find a column "Labour 2017 and majority

Even though Nick and I are from opposite ends of the political spectrum I respect him and his posts.

The sub sample should be ignored but I think the swing is less in the LAB marginals. But I think CON losses to LDs and SNP will be minimal possibly net gains and we can gain some LAB seats outside the 10% range.

Don't forget we are 3/1 in Ogmore!

RobD said:

kle4 said:

dr_spyn said:

Is anyone else having issues trying to return to the site today?

No. On the contrary, I find leaving it to be the problem.

You can leave PB?

CorrectHorseBattery said:

RobD said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

RobD said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Corbyn has the ability to skewer Johnson on Brexit IMHO, if he can get him on the ropes in terms of what he intends to actually deliver.

So far it's "get Brexit done" but very few have asked "what the hell does that mean"?

Don't you think Corbyn's position leaves him vulnerable on that subject?

I think Labour's position is honestly more clear than Johnson's.

I know Labour will end up with a soft EEA-style Brexit and it will be up against Remain.

I have no bloody clue what Johnson's will look like.

I accept the public don't agree - but that is up to Corbyn to prove otherwise.

Labour's position is clearer than Johnson's? You're having a laugh, aren't you?

I think Labour's position will inevitably lead to an EEA-style Brexit in which case we'll have what we have now pretty much without any say, or Remain.

I have no idea what Johnson's Brexit looks like, none whatsoever.

I accept I'm a minority viewpoint and the public completely disagree with me - but that is my view of things.

I think you are a ProjectingHorseBattery, and that you want an EEA-style deal so badly you have convinced yourself that Corbyn and the Labour Party do too.

TheScreamingEagles said:

ydoethur said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

ydoethur said:

ozymandias said:

Endillion said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Corbyn has the ability to skewer Johnson on Brexit IMHO, if he can get him on the ropes in terms of what he intends to actually deliver.

So far it's "get Brexit done" but very few have asked "what the hell does that mean"?

Er, what? It means signing the deal he's agreed with the EU, leaving on or before 31 Jan, and then agreeing the trade agreement everyone says he can't get, having learnt nothing from being wrong about the deal he wasn't supposed to be able to get.

You really think clarity on Brexit is a strength for Corbyn?

Corbyn couldn't care less about Brexit one way or another. He's neutral remember. He wants to talk about class war and socialist revolution. With Free broadband.

At 30mbps.

How do people cope with only 30 Mbps?

It helps to live on your own so no other bastard is stealing your WiFi signal.

This is the broadband speed I have to share with four others. It is a hard life.

Mine are 26 and 4.

But tbh it’s usually more than sufficient.

RobD said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

RobD said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Corbyn has the ability to skewer Johnson on Brexit IMHO, if he can get him on the ropes in terms of what he intends to actually deliver.

So far it's "get Brexit done" but very few have asked "what the hell does that mean"?

Don't you think Corbyn's position leaves him vulnerable on that subject?

I think Labour's position is honestly more clear than Johnson's.

I know Labour will end up with a soft EEA-style Brexit and it will be up against Remain.

I have no bloody clue what Johnson's will look like.

I accept the public don't agree - but that is up to Corbyn to prove otherwise.

Labour's position is clearer than Johnson's? You're having a laugh, aren't you?

Give that Corbyn's position involves an uncertainly successful negotiation and then a public vote and then possibly into a Brexit transition and then on to many of the same issues as Boris will face (though not all, given different deals), it is demonstrably not as clear, though it's preferable for those of us who would want a chance to vote for Remain.

If Boris is smart he will acknowledge there will be much to talk to the EU about the nature of our future relationship, but quickly shift to point out that he can truthfully say that the question of us leaving will be settled by the end of January, whereas under Corbyn's plan we will face many months of limbo while negotiations, then a referendum is prepared. Now, Corbyn's plan is to hope Labour leavers can accept that wait, and Labour remainers and other remainers won't give a shit because it gives them a shot at what they want, but for all it is true Boris is only promising to get 'it' done in a short term sense, he is at least able to deliver on that (while implying it will be much more long lasting), and he needs to hammer home that Corbyn is not offering to get it done in the short or even medium term.

The LDs should hit home the same point - even if they cannot revoke, as they definitely won't be able to, they can say that the more LD MPs there are the less fannying about they will accept indulging Corbyn's phony renegotiation, and simply push for a referendum as soon as humanly possible.

CorrectHorseBattery said:

HYUFD said:

BluerBlue said:

Black_Rook said:

BluerBlue said:

Two reasons:

1. Showing cowardice makes you look weak, and is the fastest way to lose a poll lead if you have one - it was certainly disastrous for May. No guts, no glory.

2. Avoiding the debate allows a section of the electorate to fantasise that Corbyn might be OK as PM because no one from the Tories has ever challenged him head to head. In the US, a Presidential election without debates is inconceivable because you need to see how the two contenders for the top job compare side by side. It's about time we got that clarity here.

These are both important points, but the second especially so. One theory I've read, which I think has some merit, is that Johnson has agreed to the debates to remind the soft Remain segment of the Tory vote how scary the Far Left are, so that they won't be tempted to vote Lib Dem and risk letting Corbyn in through the middle.

I am just as worried as the rest of the anti-Labour pessimists that Johnson will stuff this up, but there is some reason to be hopeful. His task in this erry-pick whatever comes out of a debate that best confirms their own opinions.

It is entirely possible that the debates will make little or no difference, and that your average voter will show more interest in I'm A Celebrity and the latest Prince Andrew revelations than they will in two politicians fighting at the end of years and years of politicians fighting.

Well said. I'm feeling oddly chipper about tomorrow, even though we've established that you are my pessimistic political twin. Remember that Trump beat Clinton in the debates despite Trump being stupider than Johnson and Clinton more intelligent than Corbyn. And despite the "pussygate" tapes coming out immediately before one of the debates!

First debates do not favour incumbents as they give the challenger to look fresh and on equal terms with the incumbent, Kerry and Romney won their first debates with Bush and Obama. Hillary also beat Trump in the first 2016 debate and Clegg beat Brown and Cameron in 2010. However none of them made much difference to the final result

Arguably 2010 result made a Hung Parliament more likely - although that's more of a gut feeling than anything else.

Possibly but the LDs even led the polls after that first debate but fell back by polling day

TheScreamingEagles said:

ydoethur said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

ydoethur said:

ozymandias said:

Endillion said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Corbyn has the ability to skewer Johnson on Brexit IMHO, if he can get him on the ropes in terms of what he intends to actually deliver.

So far it's "get Brexit done" but very few have asked "what the hell does that mean"?

Er, what? It means signing the deal he's agreed with the EU, leaving on or before 31 Jan, and then agreeing the trade agreement everyone says he can't get, having learnt nothing from being wrong about the deal he wasn't supposed to be able to get.

You really think clarity on Brexit is a strength for Corbyn?

Corbyn couldn't care less about Brexit one way or another. He's neutral remember. He wants to talk about class war and socialist revolution. With Free broadband.

At 30mbps.

How do people cope with only 30 Mbps?

It helps to live on your own so no other bastard is stealing your WiFi signal.

This is the broadband speed I have to share with four others. It is a hard life.

What on earth can you possibly do to need all that?

Seriously, I get 48Mbps down and 14 up - I certainly wouldn't pay for more.

ydoethur said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

ydoethur said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

ydoethur said:

ozymandias said:

Endillion said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Corbyn has the ability to skewer Johnson on Brexit IMHO, if he can get him on the ropes in terms of what he intends to actually deliver.

So far it's "get Brexit done" but very few have asked "what the hell does that mean"?

Er, what? It means signing the deal he's agreed with the EU, leaving on or before 31 Jan, and then agreeing the trade agreement everyone says he can't get, having learnt nothing from being wrong about the deal he wasn't supposed to be able to get.

You really think clarity on Brexit is a strength for Corbyn?

Corbyn couldn't care less about Brexit one way or another. He's neutral remember. He wants to talk about class war and socialist revolution. With Free broadband.

At 30mbps.

How do people cope with only 30 Mbps?

It helps to live on your own so no other bastard is stealing your WiFi signal.

This is the broadband speed I have to share with four others. It is a hard life.

Mine are 26 and 4.

But tbh it’s usually more than sufficient.

I went from having 1mbps to 70 mbps overnight a few years ago.

If I ever move house again in the future, the first thing I'll check is the broadband/mobile coverage.

TheScreamingEagles said:

Honestly I'd vote for Andrea Jenkyns/Mark Francois if it meant my broadband speed wasn't reduced.

The speed drops when you stop eating that pineapple pizza......

CorrectHorseBattery said:

I do have to say this place is a lot more balanced than other such sites. I do like having my views challenged.

Not me - Brexit has been a right arse as its forced me to get off the fence and have opinions others might disagree with, it's hell.

BluerBlue said:

Corbyn is going to have to spend half the debate defending his godawful, fence-sitting, cowardly balls-up of a Brexit plan. That could sink him right there.

The only person who really stands to lose much in a head-to-head debate is the candidate that is already far out in the lead.

Re Brexit it really depends how much Corbyn hammers the point that he is offering a referendum, which the LDs and SNP would also support.

TheScreamingEagles said:

Disgraceful.

Boris Johnson is as bad as Corbyn on antisemitism when it comes to dealing with Islamophobia.

https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1196482486605402112

Agreed, but Johnson is given a free pass on every lie, every doctored video, every casually cynical photo opportunity, every financial scandal, every sexual impropriety, every false statistic, every carefully constructed racial dog-whistle. The BBC claims it is here to report Johnson's claims, not to question their accuracy, even when they are known to be utter fabrications. Interesting analysis from Oborne in The Guardian.

It is absolutely true Johnson's main opponent is quite repulsive. If one is called out as the hideous charlatan he clearly is, so should the other equally hideous charlatan.

ozymandias said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

ydoethur said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

ydoethur said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

ydoethur said:

ozymandias said:

Endillion said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Corbyn has the ability to skewer Johnson on Brexit IMHO, if he can get him on the ropes in terms of what he intends to actually deliver.

So far it's "get Brexit done" but very few have asked "what the hell does that mean"?

Er, what? It means signing the deal he's agreed with the EU, leaving on or before 31 Jan, and then agreeing the trade agreement everyone says he can't get, having learnt nothing from being wrong about the deal he wasn't supposed to be able to get.

You really think clarity on Brexit is a strength for Corbyn?

Corbyn couldn't care less about Brexit one way or another. He's neutral remember. He wants to talk about class war and socialist revolution. With Free broadband.

At 30mbps.

How do people cope with only 30 Mbps?

It helps to live on your own so no other bastard is stealing your WiFi signal.

This is the broadband speed I have to share with four others. It is a hard life.

Mine are 26 and 4.

But tbh it’s usually more than sufficient.

I went from having 1mbps to 70 mbps overnight a few years ago.

If I ever move house again in the future, the first thing I'll check is the broadband/mobile coverage.

This sounds weird but the days of a 56k dial-up modem were more satisfying. You had to work for your internet - and rack-up a nice bill while you were doing it.
And keeping your parents off the phone.....

The feeling of "will it connect" was a daily excitement.

Dial up? When I were a lad, we ‘ad to build the bloody line every time before us could use it.

(With apologies to the Four Yorkshiremen.)

Mexicanpete said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Disgraceful.

Boris Johnson is as bad as Corbyn on antisemitism when it comes to dealing with Islamophobia.

https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1196482486605402112

Agreed, but Johnson is given a free pass on every lie, every doctored video, every casually cynical photo opportunity, every financial scandal, every sexual impropriety, every false statistic, every carefully constructed racial dog-whistle. The BBC claims it is here to report Johnson's claims, not to question their accuracy, even when they are known to be utter fabrications. Interesting analysis from Oborne in The Guardian.

It is absolutely true Johnson's main opponent is quite repulsive. If one is called out as the hideous charlatan he clearly is, so should the other equally hideous charlatan.

"It is absolutely true..."

Serious failure to differentiate between your opinion and verifable fact there.

Quick question: is there a spreadsheet anywhere which states which parties are standing in each seat?

TheScreamingEagles said:

Honestly I'd vote for Andrea Jenkyns/Mark Francois if it meant my broadband speed wasn't reduced.

Would you accept Prince Andrew as your head of state (not that you'd have any choice in the matter)?

CorrectHorseBattery said:

I do think the Tory Party has a huge Islamophobia problem, it just doesn't get reported as much as Labour's anti-Semitism

I think it's because Labour pronounce themselves as an 'anti-racist' party.

Are we expecting the manifestos to be published this week?

I'm genuinely interested to see what ends up in them given all the trailers we've had.

CorrectHorseBattery said:

I do think the Tory Party has a huge Islamophobia problem, it just doesn't get reported as much as Labour's anti-Semitism

Matter of time - it's taken years for Labour's woes to get to this point of reporting.

ydoethur said:

Benpointer said:

Mexicanpete said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Disgraceful.

Boris Johnson is as bad as Corbyn on antisemitism when it comes to dealing with Islamophobia.

https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1196482486605402112

Agreed, but Johnson is given a free pass on every lie, every doctored video, every casually cynical photo opportunity, every financial scandal, every sexual impropriety, every false statistic, every carefully constructed racial dog-whistle. The BBC claims it is here to report Johnson's claims, not to question their accuracy, even when they are known to be utter fabrications. Interesting analysis from Oborne in The Guardian.

It is absolutely true Johnson's main opponent is quite repulsive. If one is called out as the hideous charlatan he clearly is, so should the other equally hideous charlatan.

"It is absolutely true..."

Serious failure to differentiate between your opinion and verifable fact there.

I’m intrigued. By what definition is Nigel Farage not ‘quite repulsive?’

Good point - I'm struggling to answer that one.

kle4 said:

spudgfsh said:

Quick question: is there a spreadsheet anywhere which states which parties are standing in each seat?

Probably a better one out there, but the SOPN one shows that
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/162fAv5xiV0XQjc5ii2eVYgZlFzvDP9KvL3VWvIe0bWo/edit#gid=0

I can work with that. All I've got to do is work out what I'm going to do with votes where parties are not standing now.

Benpointer said:

Are we expecting the manifestos to be published this week?

I'm genuinely interested to see what ends up in them given all the trailers we've had.

Labour's is this Thursday I believe. LDs should be smart and get theirs out Wednesday, try to make Labour's look lame by comparison (apart from the glorious spending which cannot be matched), or that Labour are following the LDs lead.

spudgfsh said:

Quick question: is there a spreadsheet anywhere which states which parties are standing in each seat?

Quick answer: Yes

Benpointer said:

spudgfsh said:

Quick question: is there a spreadsheet anywhere which states which parties are standing in each seat?

Quick answer: Yes

I deserved that...

Benpointer said:

spudgfsh said:

Quick question: is there a spreadsheet anywhere which states which parties are standing in each seat?

Quick answer: Yes

"Y" would have been quicker, no?

spudgfsh said:

Benpointer said:

spudgfsh said:

Quick question: is there a spreadsheet anywhere which states which parties are standing in each seat?

Quick answer: Yes

I deserved that...

Sorry, I just didn't have it to hand...

https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1195648978974658560?s=20

I wonder what Ed M did to upset people to end up more candidates standing in his seat than any other seat (other than Uxbridge). Tied with Lewisham East.

No seats with only 2 candidates, but 19 with only 3 I see.

OllyT said:

RobD said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

RobD said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Corbyn has the ability to skewer Johnson on Brexit IMHO, if he can get him on the ropes in terms of what he intends to actually deliver.

So far it's "get Brexit done" but very few have asked "what the hell does that mean"?

Don't you think Corbyn's position leaves him vulnerable on that subject?

I think Labour's position is honestly more clear than Johnson's.

I know Labour will end up with a soft EEA-style Brexit and it will be up against Remain.

I have no bloody clue what Johnson's will look like.

I accept the public don't agree - but that is up to Corbyn to prove otherwise.

Labour's position is clearer than Johnson's? You're having a laugh, aren't you?

Perhaps you could clarify Bozo's Brexit plan for me. What happens if and when we find there is no time to agree an EU trade deal by next summer. Do we leave without a trade deal and become a third country or do we extend the transition period? As far as I can ascertain, Bozo has expressed opposition to both options.

For sake of clarity I am not claiming Corbyn's is necessarily any clearer but I do at least understand what I think he will do if elected.

This...

...is why we are going to be having the same debate next December (unless there's an upset in the GE) imo.

ydoethur said:

Mexicanpete said:

Benpointer said:

Mexicanpete said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Disgraceful.

Boris Johnson is as bad as Corbyn on antisemitism when it comes to dealing with Islamophobia.

https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1196482486605402112

Agreed, but Johnson is given a free pass on every lie, every doctored video, every casually cynical photo opportunity, every financial scandal, every sexual impropriety, every false statistic, every carefully constructed racial dog-whistle. The BBC claims it is here to report Johnson's claims, not to question their accuracy, even when they are known to be utter fabrications. Interesting analysis from Oborne in The Guardian.

It is absolutely true Johnson's main opponent is quite repulsive. If one is called out as the hideous charlatan he clearly is, so should the other equally hideous charlatan.

"It is absolutely true..."

Serious failure to differentiate between your opinion and verifable fact there.

My opinion is that Corbyn is truly a vile man. Is that better?

I accept that by and large the media analysis of Corbyn is accurate, on the basis of his past actions. The media analysis of Johnson as a cuddly buffoon is less so.

I would be far more comfortable with a Corbyn minority government, than I would a Johnson majority government.

Well, he certainly ain’t cuddly.

To you he may be an idle and feckless blancmange, to others his portly stature makes him merely cuddly.

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

ydoethur said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

ydoethur said:

ozymandias said:

Endillion said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Corbyn has the ability to skewer Johnson on Brexit IMHO, if he can get him on the ropes in terms of what he intends to actually deliver.

So far it's "get Brexit done" but very few have asked "what the hell does that mean"?

Er, what? It means signing the deal he's agreed with the EU, leaving on or before 31 Jan, and then agreeing the trade agreement everyone says he can't get, having learnt nothing from being wrong about the deal he wasn't supposed to be able to get.

You really think clarity on Brexit is a strength for Corbyn?

Corbyn couldn't care less about Brexit one way or another. He's neutral remember. He wants to talk about class war and socialist revolution. With Free broadband.

At 30mbps.

How do people cope with only 30 Mbps?

It helps to live on your own so no other bastard is stealing your WiFi signal.

This is the broadband speed I have to share with four others. It is a hard life.

What on earth can you possibly do to need all that?

Seriously, I get 48Mbps down and 14 up - I certainly wouldn't pay for more.

I'm only paying £26.99 a month for that, got a good deal with Virgin.

I have the kids on PS4, my parents are silver surfers, my father is constantly streaming UHD content on Netflix/Amazon Prime, my mother is regular video calling her friends and family all across the world.

Me I use it to upload content to the UK's most popular political blog and watch a lot of UHD content on Sky.

Right - makes more sense when you put it like that.

And what happens to Virgin when the free owls fibres are being distributed to every voter?

rottenborough said:

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

ydoethur said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

ydoethur said:

ozymandias said:

Endillion said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Corbyn has the ability to skewer Johnson on Brexit IMHO, if he can get him on the ropes in terms of what he intends to actually deliver.

So far it's "get Brexit done" but very few have asked "what the hell does that mean"?

Er, what? It means signing the deal he's agreed with the EU, leaving on or before 31 Jan, and then agreeing the trade agreement everyone says he can't get, having learnt nothing from being wrong about the deal he wasn't supposed to be able to get.

You really think clarity on Brexit is a strength for Corbyn?

Corbyn couldn't care less about Brexit one way or another. He's neutral remember. He wants to talk about class war and socialist revolution. With Free broadband.

At 30mbps.

How do people cope with only 30 Mbps?

It helps to live on your own so no other bastard is stealing your WiFi signal.

This is the broadband speed I have to share with four others. It is a hard life.

What on earth can you possibly do to need all that?

Seriously, I get 48Mbps down and 14 up - I certainly wouldn't pay for more.

I'm only paying £26.99 a month for that, got a good deal with Virgin.

I have the kids on PS4, my parents are silver surfers, my father is constantly streaming UHD content on Netflix/Amazon Prime, my mother is regular video calling her friends and family all across the world.

Me I use it to upload content to the UK's most popular political blog and watch a lot of UHD content on Sky.

Right - makes more sense when you put it like that.

And what happens to Virgin when the free owls fibres are being distributed to every voter?

Who cares?

Benpointer said:

kle4 said:

Benpointer said:

Are we expecting the manifestos to be published this week?

I'm genuinely interested to see what ends up in them given all the trailers we've had.

Labour's is this Thursday I believe. LDs should be smart and get theirs out Wednesday, try to make Labour's look lame by comparison (apart from the glorious spending which cannot be matched), or that Labour are following the LDs lead.

And the Tories?

Or do they not really feel the need for one, given they have an oven-ready Brexit to offer?

I think they'll delay it as long as they can. It's expected, but again I think they are scared of what happened last time.

bigjohnowls1 said:

Benpointer said:

Are we expecting the manifestos to be published this week?

I'm genuinely interested to see what ends up in them given all the trailers we've had.

Tories Manifesto due out on 13/12/19

Welcome to PB @bigjohnowls1!

Good to have fresh voices - just make sure you don't forget your password!

ozymandias said:

rottenborough said:

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Benpointer said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

ydoethur said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

ydoethur said:

ozymandias said:

Endillion said:

CorrectHorseBattery said:

Corbyn has the ability to skewer Johnson on Brexit IMHO, if he can get him on the ropes in terms of what he intends to actually deliver.

So far it's "get Brexit done" but very few have asked "what the hell does that mean"?

Er, what? It means signing the deal he's agreed with the EU, leaving on or before 31 Jan, and then agreeing the trade agreement everyone says he can't get, having learnt nothing from being wrong about the deal he wasn't supposed to be able to get.

You really think clarity on Brexit is a strength for Corbyn?

Corbyn couldn't care less about Brexit one way or another. He's neutral remember. He wants to talk about class war and socialist revolution. With Free broadband.

At 30mbps.

How do people cope with only 30 Mbps?

It helps to live on your own so no other bastard is stealing your WiFi signal.

This is the broadband speed I have to share with four others. It is a hard life.

What on earth can you possibly do to need all that?

Seriously, I get 48Mbps down and 14 up - I certainly wouldn't pay for more.

I'm only paying £26.99 a month for that, got a good deal with Virgin.

I have the kids on PS4, my parents are silver surfers, my father is constantly streaming UHD content on Netflix/Amazon Prime, my mother is regular video calling her friends and family all across the world.

Me I use it to upload content to the UK's most popular political blog and watch a lot of UHD content on Sky.

Right - makes more sense when you put it like that.

And what happens to Virgin when the free owls fibres are being distributed to every voter?

I get the feeling the "Free Broadband" is Corbyn's Edstone moment.

I dunno. It could either way. One thing is for sure. It totally blindsided the Tories.

One thing they should start to hammer away at is that John McD told big business he had no further tricks up his sleeves on nationalisation.

There's an unparliamentary word for that.

ABERDEEN NORTH INFO:

https://twitter.com/KevinStewartSNP/status/1196549132074278913

Ladbrokes- Debate winner (Snap YouGov poll)
Corbyn 8/11
Boris Evens