politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Cameron’s handling of the Maria Miller affair: Across the b

System · April 2014

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Cameron’s handling of the Maria Miller affair: Across the board voters were not impressed

The above poll, by ComRes for ITV News, was taken this afternoon after the news of Maria Miller’s resignation was announced and shows what voters thought of David Cameron’s handling of the expenses issue.

Read the full story here

Mick_Pork · April 2014

FPT:

taffys said:
His inability to master basic party politics will be the hallmark of his single term as PM.

Oh come on, the back benchers are just as much to blame. They complain the Miller thing is 'getting in the way of the message' and when they get their way they come out with d8ckhead tweets like that, when the affair is still raw and the press are hunting around for new angles to this story.

Fabricant prolonged the story, not Cameron. He's a senior tory party officer criticising his own bosses judgement.

Who even KNEW that Fabricant has waded in??? It's Fabricant not Boris. Journos do not hang on his every word though they do enjoy laughing at his hair.

isam · April 2014

alawevans ‏@alawevans 1m
"To fire someone at the first sign of trouble is a sign of weakness not leadership" Dave says on the day he sacks Fabricant....

Stark_Dawning · April 2014

taffys said:
Fabricant prolonged the story, not Cameron. He's a senior tory party officer criticising his own bosses judgement.

Fabricant and his tweets have had it coming I'm afraid. He used the medium to laugh and sneer at Andrew Mitchell - the Guildford Four of Toryism - when he was being consumed by his own witch hunt.

Mick_Pork · April 2014

Carola said:

JosiasJessop said:

Carola said:

Carola said:
'Thanks for all the lovely tweets. Look: I am still a Conservative MP and my personality and twitter fingers are undiminished! I ain't dead!' mikefabricant

'BREAKING: Veteran Tory MP @Mike_Fabricant sacked as party vice chair for tweeting "about time" re Miller going. Miserable day for Tories.' tomnewtondunn
'Been asked to resign as Vice Chairman, refused, so sacked over HS2 and my views on a recent Cabinet Minister. Still available 4 speeches etc# mikefabricant. Said thinks 'knee-jerk' decision.
You can only p**s out of the tent for so long before you're told to leave. Knowing Fabricant, he'll go straight out and start p**sing in.
Just wondering how it will go down with some backbenchers.

They seemed upset that Millar was clinging on and damaging them and the party while Cammie looked on impotently. I doubt it occurred to very many of them that the actual problem was not booting out Fabricant all along.

Well they know now!

LOL

Incredible stuff. Dangerously close to omnishambles territory if this keeps going much longer.

MarqueeMark · April 2014

What else are we to expect when the great majority of voters would have burnt Miller at the stake - based on most of them being spoon-fed to their prejudices by the media?

I suppose the polling for Cameron would still have been a resounding shrug of the shoulders if he himself had covered Miller in petrol on College Green and immolated her live on the Six O'Clock news...

JackW · April 2014

Just musing on the footie and should Man Utd win through and Athletico Madrid hold out against Barcelona we might end up with semi-finals of :

Man Utd V Chelsea and equally mouth watering Real Madrid V Athletico Madrid

JosiasJessop · April 2014

isam said:
alawevans ‏@alawevans 1m
"To fire someone at the first sign of trouble is a sign of weakness not leadership" Dave says on the day he sacks Fabricant....

Except it isn't the first sign of trouble. Fabricant's been troublesome for some time.

Mick_Pork · April 2014

this is my england ‏@thisismyengland 5m

Wow, it's like the a Keystone Kops version of the Night of the Long Knives in Toryland today. @Mike_Fabricant gone. Will he join UKIP?

taffys · April 2014

What else are we to expect when the great majority of voters would have burnt Miller at the stake - based on most of them being spoon-fed to their prejudices by the media?

Miller's problem was that she did not realise this.

JackW · April 2014

JosiasJessop said:

isam said:
alawevans ‏@alawevans 1m
"To fire someone at the first sign of trouble is a sign of weakness not leadership" Dave says on the day he sacks Fabricant....
Except it isn't the first sign of trouble. Fabricant's been troublesome for some time.

Exactly. Fabricant's toupee has been a danger to anyone within five meters of him on the backbenches.

isam · April 2014

JosiasJessop said:

isam said:
alawevans ‏@alawevans 1m
"To fire someone at the first sign of trouble is a sign of weakness not leadership" Dave says on the day he sacks Fabricant....
Except it isn't the first sign of trouble. Fabricant's been troublesome for some time.

Yes perhaps so.. but how will it play out to the public?

Fiddling expenses for personal gain? Cameron stands by you, and says he'll have you back

Criticise a much criticised project/an MP the public don't like? Sacked.

At the risk of siding with unlikely bedfellows Pork and Pouter, PB really seems to be the only place Miller=Good Guy, Fabricant=Bad Guy

Seems like defending Cameron at all costs out of stubbornness

Quincel · April 2014

What do the 8% of voters who think Cameron handled this well think handling it badly looks like?! Absolute proof that some voters respond to these polls based purely on tribal loyalty and some answer totally randomly.

perdix · April 2014

ukip voters are always negative to Cameron. No change there.

isam · April 2014

I type "Fabricant" into twitter and this is what I get

Daniel White ‏@danwhitepr 7m
David Cameron sacks Mike Fabricant for having an opinion on HS2 & refuses to sack Maria Miller for cheating the taxpayer. Sums him up.

MARY HALL ‏@PsychVictim 7m
Vice-chair of Conservative Party Michael Fabricant sacked for criticising Maria Miller on Twitter http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/vicechair-of-conservative-party-michael-fabricant-sacked-for-criticising-maria-miller-on-twitter-9249392.html …

Dominic McDonough ‏@torydom 8m
Shocked to hear about @Mike_Fabricant firing. He is EXACTLY what the Conservative party needs. An opinionated individual, not a robot.

Lichfield Live ‏@LichfieldLive 9m
Lichfield MP @mike_fabricant insists he's still loyal to David Cameron despite sacking over #HS2 comments:

Paul Waugh ‏@paulwaugh 9m
@Mike_Fabricant I take a rare few minutes off the Twitter thingy to attend a leaving do and next thing I know you've got one of your own!

Karl Frampton ‏@Karl_Frampton 9m
Michael Fabricant sacked for tweeting 'about time' re #MariaMiller even though Nasty Mcveigh was knife twisting even before that.

Lescromps ‏@Lescromps 9m
So they've sacked @Mike_Fabricant over dissenting view on HS2 think Cameron and co might live regret that #kneejerk #hs2 #knivesout
Expand

Old Holborn ‏@OHwinsAgain 10m
Fabricant had it coming. FAR too individual to survive the Borg.

Emily Davies ‏@EmilyDTV 10m
What... the... hell? MT @bbcmtd: Lichfield MP Michael Fabricant sacked following criticism of the HS2 rail scheme & Maria Miller

Giles Goodall ‏@GoodallGiles 10m
Oh dear, Tories' fratricidal instincts never seem to dim, do they? http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/vicechair-of-conservative-party-michael-fabricant-sacked-for-criticising-maria-miller-on-twitter-9249392.html …

Biff Bean ‏@BiffBean 11m
@Mike_Fabricant ...gone up in my books.

ARTIST TAXI DRIVER ‏@chunkymark 11m
Can I interview you in my taxi now?@Mike_Fabricant

Ed Wilson ‏@eddwilson 12m
@JosephineFormby Sacking senior people is untidy. Fabricant was a joke bag-carrier.

MrCEssex ‏@MrCEssex1 12m
Amazing. Tories support Miller yet sack Fabricant. What utter wankers.

GoodnightVienna ‏@CallingEngland 12m
@GoldenOldieC @Mike_Fabricant Wouldn't be surprised; seems to be the way of contemporary politics. Highlighted by the sacking of MikeFab

Yosemite Sam 1979 ‏@back_samuel 13m
@Mike_Fabricant... First time I saw him I thought he was an Ali G type p*sstake.. #justsaying

Ian Davis ‏@iandavis28 13m
@gemini2359 Is a Fabricant someone who fabricates?

raymond turton ‏@deffmick 13m
#skynews Michael fabricant. Sacked as Tory vice chairman ! Pmsl. Torys in meltdown.

Leon Spence ‏@CllrLeonSpence 13m
Don't usually agree with @Mike_Fabricant, but politics needs more straight talking, not the toadying that's becoming the norm.

BobaFett · April 2014

Fabricant story is barely believable. Ho hum. I'm off to drink bubbly with my £40 dinner and pick the England team. I do the same every night.

taffys · April 2014

Yes perhaps so.. but how will it play out to the public?

The public don;t give a t8ss about Maria no-mark and Michael no-mates. They care about jobs, immigration, the economy, taxes, the deficit, welfare, health and education.

And on many of those issues David Cameron has done a reasonable job, despite the mother of all beastings from one doom monger or another, on one side or another, on one topic or another, for the last four years.

TwistedFireStopper · April 2014

Richard, Avery and Bobajob have put up passionate, well thought out arguments about employment law and cabinet ministers, and being hounded out of a job. Obviously, I can't argue about the legal niceties, as I do not have a Scooby about them.
I'm just peed off that cabinet ministers who get binned can claim 18 grand (Avery tells me that's "only" two months pay for a cabinet minister).
The likes of Huhne, Laws and gawd knows how many New Labour failed ministers were all eligible to claim it.
Millionaire failed ministers, collecting not far off my take home pay, even the ones who resign in disgrace, but still keeping their MP job, and all that entails.
That just doesn't sit well.

taffys · April 2014

I type "Fabricant" into twitter and this is what I get

Do you really think hard working families have time to sit around reading what some lobby fodder with an inflated ego has to say about two politicians they have never heard of?

BobaFett · April 2014

SeanT said:

JackW said:
Just musing on the footie and should Man Utd win through and Athletico Madrid hold out against Barcelona we might end up with semi-finals of :

Man Utd V Chelsea and equally mouth watering Real Madrid V Athletico Madrid
Real v Barca is the ultimate final, tho, what with the Spanish government turning down Catalonia's bid for an independence referendum.

Perhaps the Castilians saw how *well* ours was going, and made the right call.

No thanks - tika taka bore fest!

JackW · April 2014

@isam

As a Vice-Chair of the party the PM was entitled to expect from Fabricant an element of loyalty to the wider party and himself. Instead Fabricant was self indulgent and for the sake of a moments self anggrandizement made himself eminently expendable.

Or as they say many a tweet makes a twat.

JosiasJessop · April 2014

isam said:

JosiasJessop said:

isam said:
alawevans ‏@alawevans 1m
"To fire someone at the first sign of trouble is a sign of weakness not leadership" Dave says on the day he sacks Fabricant....
Except it isn't the first sign of trouble. Fabricant's been troublesome for some time.
Yes perhaps so.. but how will it play out to the public?

Fiddling expenses for personal gain? Cameron stands by you, and says he'll have you back

Criticise a much criticised project/an MP the public don't like? Sacked.

At the risk of siding with unlikely bedfellows Pork and Pouter, PB really seems to be the only place Miller=Good Guy, Fabricant=Bad Guy

Seems like defending Cameron at all costs out of stubbornness

Perhaps some of us:
a) Can see beyond blind party preference
b) Don''t scream about Cameron when he has the temerity to breathe
c) Actually read the report.

And I'm not saying Fabricant's a bad guy. It's just that as vice-chair, he's in a position where such outbursts can cause problems. And he's had several.

A better comparison would be Fabricant and Mitchell. Both had important positions in the party, and both had problems. In Mitchell's case the assault was coming from outside the party, and Cameron tried to protect him against unjustified accusations - and in hindsight he was right to do so. In the case of Fabricant, it's internal and wholly caused by Fabricant's own actions.

Fabricant's reaction will be very telling.

BobaFett · April 2014

TwistedFireStopper said:
Richard, Avery and Bobajob have put up passionate, well thought out arguments about employment law and cabinet ministers, and being hounded out of a job. Obviously, I can't argue about the legal niceties, as I do not have a Scooby about them.
I'm just peed off that cabinet ministers who get binned can claim 18 grand (Avery tells me that's "only" two months pay for a cabinet minister).
The likes of Huhne, Laws and gawd knows how many New Labour failed ministers were all eligible to claim it.
Millionaire failed ministers, collecting not far off my take home pay, even the ones who resign in disgrace, but still keeping their MP job, and all that entails.
That just doesn't sit well.

If 18 grand is what you earn full time as a fireman then I would say that is scandalously underpaid for someone who saves lives. I must admit I didn't realise that.

Mick_Pork · April 2014

isam said:
Seems like defending Cameron at all costs out of stubbornness

Not exactly a new situation on here though, is it?

Of course in the end it's the public's fault because that doesn't sound desperate at all.

BobaFett · April 2014

BobaFett said:

TwistedFireStopper said:
Richard, Avery and Bobajob have put up passionate, well thought out arguments about employment law and cabinet ministers, and being hounded out of a job. Obviously, I can't argue about the legal niceties, as I do not have a Scooby about them.
I'm just peed off that cabinet ministers who get binned can claim 18 grand (Avery tells me that's "only" two months pay for a cabinet minister).
The likes of Huhne, Laws and gawd knows how many New Labour failed ministers were all eligible to claim it.
Millionaire failed ministers, collecting not far off my take home pay, even the ones who resign in disgrace, but still keeping their MP job, and all that entails.
That just doesn't sit well.
If 18 grand is what you earn full time as a fireman then I would say that is scandalously underpaid for someone who saves lives. I must admit I didn't realise that.

And of course who risks his own life to save those of others..

isam · April 2014

taffys said:
I type "Fabricant" into twitter and this is what I get

Do you really think hard working families have time to sit around reading what some lobby fodder with an inflated ego has to say about two politicians they have never heard of?

twitter a reasonable assessment of what the public think I would have thought.

Where you pulling "Hard working families" from? What a strange thing to say

perdix · April 2014

taffys said:
What else are we to expect when the great majority of voters would have burnt Miller at the stake - based on most of them being spoon-fed to their prejudices by the media?

Miller's problem was that she did not realise this.

I had spoken to a number of Tory members. They all thought she should resign. None of them could explain to me what she had done wrong, they only skimmed the headlines. The Daily ukipgraph chose to exploit it as a successor to the expenses scandal in which they bought the date.They are still gloating.
The ukipgraph is two-faced when it comes to supporting the Tories. Private Eye reports that the owner(s) of the DT have financially supported Nigel Farage.
There is also no question in my mind that the paper wanted to damage Miller because of her association with press regulation. They have been vehement in their opposition.

IOS · April 2014

I can't believe they have fired Mike Fabricant.

What the hell is Cameron playing at? He is just throwing his toys out the pram because he lost?

BobaFett · April 2014

SeanT said:

BobaFett said:

TwistedFireStopper said:
Richard, Avery and Bobajob have put up passionate, well thought out arguments about employment law and cabinet ministers, and being hounded out of a job. Obviously, I can't argue about the legal niceties, as I do not have a Scooby about them.
I'm just peed off that cabinet ministers who get binned can claim 18 grand (Avery tells me that's "only" two months pay for a cabinet minister).
The likes of Huhne, Laws and gawd knows how many New Labour failed ministers were all eligible to claim it.
Millionaire failed ministers, collecting not far off my take home pay, even the ones who resign in disgrace, but still keeping their MP job, and all that entails.
That just doesn't sit well.
If 18 grand is what you earn full time as a fireman then I would say that is scandalously underpaid for someone who saves lives. I must admit I didn't realise that.
Until you realise that all firemen do, 90% of their time, is sit around on their arses posting on political betting websites, in between the odd foray to go rescue a kitten up a sycamore.

*ducks*

Talking of risking one's life...

JackW · April 2014

SeanT said:

JackW said:
Just musing on the footie and should Man Utd win through and Athletico Madrid hold out against Barcelona we might end up with semi-finals of :

Man Utd V Chelsea and equally mouth watering Real Madrid V Athletico Madrid
Real v Barca is the ultimate final, tho, what with the Spanish government turning down Catalonia's bid for an independence referendum.

Perhaps the Castilians saw how *well* ours was going, and made the right call.

I see the point but Athletico have been playing some good excellent football this season, indeed in tonight's match should be out of sight already.

TwistedFireStopper · April 2014

BobaFett said:

TwistedFireStopper said:
Richard, Avery and Bobajob have put up passionate, well thought out arguments about employment law and cabinet ministers, and being hounded out of a job. Obviously, I can't argue about the legal niceties, as I do not have a Scooby about them.
I'm just peed off that cabinet ministers who get binned can claim 18 grand (Avery tells me that's "only" two months pay for a cabinet minister).
The likes of Huhne, Laws and gawd knows how many New Labour failed ministers were all eligible to claim it.
Millionaire failed ministers, collecting not far off my take home pay, even the ones who resign in disgrace, but still keeping their MP job, and all that entails.
That just doesn't sit well.
If 18 grand is what you earn full time as a fireman then I would say that is scandalously underpaid for someone who saves lives. I must admit I didn't realise that.

Just under 20 grand take home. I'm not complaining, I love the job, but I've been told on here when talking about our strike action, that if I didn't like my pay and conditions, no one was forcing me to be a fireman, and if I didn't like it, I was free to find a better paid job. The same surely applies to politicians and cabinet ministers.

JackW · April 2014

SeanT said:

BobaFett said:

TwistedFireStopper said:
Richard, Avery and Bobajob have put up passionate, well thought out arguments about employment law and cabinet ministers, and being hounded out of a job. Obviously, I can't argue about the legal niceties, as I do not have a Scooby about them.
I'm just peed off that cabinet ministers who get binned can claim 18 grand (Avery tells me that's "only" two months pay for a cabinet minister).
The likes of Huhne, Laws and gawd knows how many New Labour failed ministers were all eligible to claim it.
Millionaire failed ministers, collecting not far off my take home pay, even the ones who resign in disgrace, but still keeping their MP job, and all that entails.
That just doesn't sit well.
If 18 grand is what you earn full time as a fireman then I would say that is scandalously underpaid for someone who saves lives. I must admit I didn't realise that.
Until you realise that all firemen do, 90% of their time, is sit around on their arses posting on political betting websites, in between the odd foray to go rescue a kitten up a sycamore.

*ducks*

They rescue ducks too ?!?

isam · April 2014

JosiasJessop said:

isam said:

JosiasJessop said:

isam said:
alawevans ‏@alawevans 1m
"To fire someone at the first sign of trouble is a sign of weakness not leadership" Dave says on the day he sacks Fabricant....
Except it isn't the first sign of trouble. Fabricant's been troublesome for some time.
Yes perhaps so.. but how will it play out to the public?

Fiddling expenses for personal gain? Cameron stands by you, and says he'll have you back

Criticise a much criticised project/an MP the public don't like? Sacked.

At the risk of siding with unlikely bedfellows Pork and Pouter, PB really seems to be the only place Miller=Good Guy, Fabricant=Bad Guy

Seems like defending Cameron at all costs out of stubbornness
Perhaps some of us:
a) Can see beyond blind party preference
b) Don''t scream about Cameron when he has the temerity to breathe
c) Actually read the report.

And I'm not saying Fabricant's a bad guy. It's just that as vice-chair, he's in a position where such outbursts can cause problems. And he's had several.

A better comparison would be Fabricant and Mitchell. Both had important positions in the party, and both had problems. In Mitchell's case the assault was coming from outside the party, and Cameron tried to protect him against unjustified accusations - and in hindsight he was right to do so. In the case of Fabricant, it's internal and wholly caused by Fabricant's own actions.

Fabricant's reaction will be very telling.

Just pointing out that the public reaction to Miller, and to Fabricant it seems, is very different to that on here from Conservative Party loyalists who like an argument.

TwistedFireStopper · April 2014

SeanT said:

BobaFett said:

TwistedFireStopper said:
Richard, Avery and Bobajob have put up passionate, well thought out arguments about employment law and cabinet ministers, and being hounded out of a job. Obviously, I can't argue about the legal niceties, as I do not have a Scooby about them.
I'm just peed off that cabinet ministers who get binned can claim 18 grand (Avery tells me that's "only" two months pay for a cabinet minister).
The likes of Huhne, Laws and gawd knows how many New Labour failed ministers were all eligible to claim it.
Millionaire failed ministers, collecting not far off my take home pay, even the ones who resign in disgrace, but still keeping their MP job, and all that entails.
That just doesn't sit well.
If 18 grand is what you earn full time as a fireman then I would say that is scandalously underpaid for someone who saves lives. I must admit I didn't realise that.
Until you realise that all firemen do, 90% of their time, is sit around on their arses posting on political betting websites, in between the odd foray to go rescue a kitten up a sycamore.

*ducks*

Can't climb trees, health and safety says no. You need a tree surgeon for that job, he's got the climbing kit and training.

isam · April 2014

BobaFett said:

TwistedFireStopper said:
Richard, Avery and Bobajob have put up passionate, well thought out arguments about employment law and cabinet ministers, and being hounded out of a job. Obviously, I can't argue about the legal niceties, as I do not have a Scooby about them.
I'm just peed off that cabinet ministers who get binned can claim 18 grand (Avery tells me that's "only" two months pay for a cabinet minister).
The likes of Huhne, Laws and gawd knows how many New Labour failed ministers were all eligible to claim it.
Millionaire failed ministers, collecting not far off my take home pay, even the ones who resign in disgrace, but still keeping their MP job, and all that entails.
That just doesn't sit well.
If 18 grand is what you earn full time as a fireman then I would say that is scandalously underpaid for someone who saves lives. I must admit I didn't realise that.

finger on the pulse as usual

AndyJS · April 2014

Useless facts:

Total number of votes polled in 2010 by the Tories in Glasgow: 17,432

Total number of votes polled in 2010 by Michael Fabricant: 28,048

IOS · April 2014

Even I can't believe Cameron has sacked Fabricant.

What a petty, spineless, weak little bully Cameron is. He is hollowing out the Tory party for his own vanity.

Mick_Pork · April 2014

isam said:

JosiasJessop said:

isam said:

JosiasJessop said:

isam said:
alawevans ‏@alawevans 1m
"To fire someone at the first sign of trouble is a sign of weakness not leadership" Dave says on the day he sacks Fabricant....
Except it isn't the first sign of trouble. Fabricant's been troublesome for some time.
Yes perhaps so.. but how will it play out to the public?

Fiddling expenses for personal gain? Cameron stands by you, and says he'll have you back

Criticise a much criticised project/an MP the public don't like? Sacked.

At the risk of siding with unlikely bedfellows Pork and Pouter, PB really seems to be the only place Miller=Good Guy, Fabricant=Bad Guy

Seems like defending Cameron at all costs out of stubbornness
Perhaps some of us:
a) Can see beyond blind party preference
b) Don''t scream about Cameron when he has the temerity to breathe
c) Actually read the report.

And I'm not saying Fabricant's a bad guy. It's just that as vice-chair, he's in a position where such outbursts can cause problems. And he's had several.

A better comparison would be Fabricant and Mitchell. Both had important positions in the party, and both had problems. In Mitchell's case the assault was coming from outside the party, and Cameron tried to protect him against unjustified accusations - and in hindsight he was right to do so. In the case of Fabricant, it's internal and wholly caused by Fabricant's own actions.

Fabricant's reaction will be very telling.
Just pointing out that the public reaction to Miller, and to Fabricant it seems, is very different to that on here from Conservative Party loyalists who like an argument.

Best not to confuse PB tories with actual tory voters or members. PB tories are a very peculiar breed often totally out of touch with tory thinking, never mind the public at large.
A swift look up at that poll tells you that they are VERY from from representational.
As does this.

Mark Wallace ‏@wallaceme 13h

Last night we revealed @ConHome that 82% of Tory Party members wanted Miller to go http://bit.ly/1sxtFPh

They didn't get the message last night, they didn't get it today and they'll keep right on going because they simply seem incapable of getting it even now.

JosiasJessop · April 2014

isam said:

JosiasJessop said:

isam said:

JosiasJessop said:

isam said:
alawevans ‏@alawevans 1m
"To fire someone at the first sign of trouble is a sign of weakness not leadership" Dave says on the day he sacks Fabricant....
Except it isn't the first sign of trouble. Fabricant's been troublesome for some time.
Yes perhaps so.. but how will it play out to the public?

Fiddling expenses for personal gain? Cameron stands by you, and says he'll have you back

Criticise a much criticised project/an MP the public don't like? Sacked.

At the risk of siding with unlikely bedfellows Pork and Pouter, PB really seems to be the only place Miller=Good Guy, Fabricant=Bad Guy

Seems like defending Cameron at all costs out of stubbornness
Perhaps some of us:
a) Can see beyond blind party preference
b) Don''t scream about Cameron when he has the temerity to breathe
c) Actually read the report.

And I'm not saying Fabricant's a bad guy. It's just that as vice-chair, he's in a position where such outbursts can cause problems. And he's had several.

A better comparison would be Fabricant and Mitchell. Both had important positions in the party, and both had problems. In Mitchell's case the assault was coming from outside the party, and Cameron tried to protect him against unjustified accusations - and in hindsight he was right to do so. In the case of Fabricant, it's internal and wholly caused by Fabricant's own actions.

Fabricant's reaction will be very telling.
Just pointing out that the public reaction to Miller, and to Fabricant it seems, is very different to that on here from Conservative Party loyalists who like an argument.

I hope you're not implying that I'm a Conservative Party loyalist! That's fighting talk. ;-)

And twitter is not a mirror of public opinion. It's a mirror of the opinion of people with twitter accounts. And we all know the sort of self-indulgent to**ers they are...

*joins SeanT in ducking for cover*

old_labour · April 2014

I like "useless facts". The more, the better.

AndyJS said:
Useless facts:

Total number of votes polled in 2010 by the Tories in Glasgow: 17,432

Total number of votes polled in 2010 by Michael Fabricant: 28,048

Mick_Pork · April 2014

TwistedFireStopper said:

SeanT said:

BobaFett said:

TwistedFireStopper said:
Richard, Avery and Bobajob have put up passionate, well thought out arguments about employment law and cabinet ministers, and being hounded out of a job. Obviously, I can't argue about the legal niceties, as I do not have a Scooby about them.
I'm just peed off that cabinet ministers who get binned can claim 18 grand (Avery tells me that's "only" two months pay for a cabinet minister).
The likes of Huhne, Laws and gawd knows how many New Labour failed ministers were all eligible to claim it.
Millionaire failed ministers, collecting not far off my take home pay, even the ones who resign in disgrace, but still keeping their MP job, and all that entails.
That just doesn't sit well.
If 18 grand is what you earn full time as a fireman then I would say that is scandalously underpaid for someone who saves lives. I must admit I didn't realise that.
Until you realise that all firemen do, 90% of their time, is sit around on their arses posting on political betting websites, in between the odd foray to go rescue a kitten up a sycamore.

*ducks*
Can't climb trees, health and safety says no. You need a tree surgeon for that job, he's got the climbing kit and training.

You DO realise that's an entire clickbait article you just gave away gratis?

*chortle*

volcanopete · April 2014

The poll is further confirmation that the Tory message of "Vote Nigel,get Ed" is only going to get them so far in attracting those who say they are voting Ukip.I wonder how far it gets them if they were to try this on the 77% Ukip voters who think the PM has handled this badly.As they always say.LIB/LAB/CON are all as bad as another.

TwistedFireStopper · April 2014

Mick_Pork said:

TwistedFireStopper said:

SeanT said:

BobaFett said:

TwistedFireStopper said:
Richard, Avery and Bobajob have put up passionate, well thought out arguments about employment law and cabinet ministers, and being hounded out of a job. Obviously, I can't argue about the legal niceties, as I do not have a Scooby about them.
I'm just peed off that cabinet ministers who get binned can claim 18 grand (Avery tells me that's "only" two months pay for a cabinet minister).
The likes of Huhne, Laws and gawd knows how many New Labour failed ministers were all eligible to claim it.
Millionaire failed ministers, collecting not far off my take home pay, even the ones who resign in disgrace, but still keeping their MP job, and all that entails.
That just doesn't sit well.
If 18 grand is what you earn full time as a fireman then I would say that is scandalously underpaid for someone who saves lives. I must admit I didn't realise that.
Until you realise that all firemen do, 90% of their time, is sit around on their arses posting on political betting websites, in between the odd foray to go rescue a kitten up a sycamore.

*ducks*
Can't climb trees, health and safety says no. You need a tree surgeon for that job, he's got the climbing kit and training.

You DO realise that's an entire clickbait article you just gave away gratis?

*chortle*

I don't reckon Sean would use it. It's a bit too Richard Littlejohn, surely?

Carola · April 2014

Okay, I admit I don't know much about Fabricant... 'bit of a joker' is about all. Can any Tories tell me:
Is he popular?
If so how will backbenchers react?
Why sack him *now* - good timing or (seems to me but hey..) bad?

JosiasJessop · April 2014

isam said:

JosiasJessop said:

isam said:

taffys said:
I type "Fabricant" into twitter and this is what I get

Do you really think hard working families have time to sit around reading what some lobby fodder with an inflated ego has to say about two politicians they have never heard of?

twitter a reasonable assessment of what the public think I would have thought.

Where you pulling "Hard working families" from? What a strange thing to say
There should be a variant of Cameron's adage:
"Posting too many tweets makes you a twat."
Gee thanks!

Any time. ;-)

I'm a techie, but I really don't understand Twitter. I should really dip my toe in, but when I sneak a peek the signal to noise ratio is exceptionally low.

TwistedFireStopper · April 2014

volcanopete said:
The poll is further confirmation that the Tory message of "Vote Nigel,get Ed" is only going to get them so far in attracting those who say they are voting Ukip.I wonder how far it gets them if they were to try this on the 77% Ukip voters who think the PM has handled this badly.As they always say.LIB/LAB/CON are all as bad as another.

It's a case now of "vote politician, get politician".

BobaFett · April 2014

TwistedFireStopper said:

BobaFett said:

TwistedFireStopper said:
Richard, Avery and Bobajob have put up passionate, well thought out arguments about employment law and cabinet ministers, and being hounded out of a job. Obviously, I can't argue about the legal niceties, as I do not have a Scooby about them.
I'm just peed off that cabinet ministers who get binned can claim 18 grand (Avery tells me that's "only" two months pay for a cabinet minister).
The likes of Huhne, Laws and gawd knows how many New Labour failed ministers were all eligible to claim it.
Millionaire failed ministers, collecting not far off my take home pay, even the ones who resign in disgrace, but still keeping their MP job, and all that entails.
That just doesn't sit well.
If 18 grand is what you earn full time as a fireman then I would say that is scandalously underpaid for someone who saves lives. I must admit I didn't realise that.
Just under 20 grand take home. I'm not complaining, I love the job, but I've been told on here when talking about our strike action, that if I didn't like my pay and conditions, no one was forcing me to be a fireman, and if I didn't like it, I was free to find a better paid job. The same surely applies to politicians and cabinet ministers.

Well I don't agree with those sentiments. Presumably your skills (and indeed your rare bravery) are those of a fireman? It's reasonable for skilled labour to organise to get the best possible deal in their calling. I would advocate much higher wages than £27k ish for those who are prepared to put their lives on the line for others in the line of work.

BobaFett · April 2014

isam said:

BobaFett said:

TwistedFireStopper said:
Richard, Avery and Bobajob have put up passionate, well thought out arguments about employment law and cabinet ministers, and being hounded out of a job. Obviously, I can't argue about the legal niceties, as I do not have a Scooby about them.
I'm just peed off that cabinet ministers who get binned can claim 18 grand (Avery tells me that's "only" two months pay for a cabinet minister).
The likes of Huhne, Laws and gawd knows how many New Labour failed ministers were all eligible to claim it.
Millionaire failed ministers, collecting not far off my take home pay, even the ones who resign in disgrace, but still keeping their MP job, and all that entails.
That just doesn't sit well.
If 18 grand is what you earn full time as a fireman then I would say that is scandalously underpaid for someone who saves lives. I must admit I didn't realise that.
finger on the pulse as usual

LOL. I forgot that I am dealing with the Man Who Speaks For London.

isam · April 2014

BobaFett said:

TwistedFireStopper said:

BobaFett said:

TwistedFireStopper said:
Richard, Avery and Bobajob have put up passionate, well thought out arguments about employment law and cabinet ministers, and being hounded out of a job. Obviously, I can't argue about the legal niceties, as I do not have a Scooby about them.
I'm just peed off that cabinet ministers who get binned can claim 18 grand (Avery tells me that's "only" two months pay for a cabinet minister).
The likes of Huhne, Laws and gawd knows how many New Labour failed ministers were all eligible to claim it.
Millionaire failed ministers, collecting not far off my take home pay, even the ones who resign in disgrace, but still keeping their MP job, and all that entails.
That just doesn't sit well.
If 18 grand is what you earn full time as a fireman then I would say that is scandalously underpaid for someone who saves lives. I must admit I didn't realise that.
Just under 20 grand take home. I'm not complaining, I love the job, but I've been told on here when talking about our strike action, that if I didn't like my pay and conditions, no one was forcing me to be a fireman, and if I didn't like it, I was free to find a better paid job. The same surely applies to politicians and cabinet ministers.
Well I don't agree with those sentiments. Presumably your skills (and indeed your rare bravery) are those of a fireman? It's reasonable for skilled labour to organise to get the best possible deal in their calling. I would advocate much higher wages than £27k ish for those who are prepared to put their lives on the line for others in the line of work.

Good God I think Im gonna puke

foxinsoxuk · April 2014

Ever consider a transfer to this lot?:http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2011/12/07/9272989-firefighters-let-home-burn-over-75-fee-again

Now there is an organisation that knows its taxpayers!

TwistedFireStopper said:

SeanT said:

BobaFett said:

TwistedFireStopper said:
Richard, Avery and Bobajob have put up passionate, well thought out arguments about employment law and cabinet ministers, and being hounded out of a job. Obviously, I can't argue about the legal niceties, as I do not have a Scooby about them.
I'm just peed off that cabinet ministers who get binned can claim 18 grand (Avery tells me that's "only" two months pay for a cabinet minister).
The likes of Huhne, Laws and gawd knows how many New Labour failed ministers were all eligible to claim it.
Millionaire failed ministers, collecting not far off my take home pay, even the ones who resign in disgrace, but still keeping their MP job, and all that entails.
That just doesn't sit well.
If 18 grand is what you earn full time as a fireman then I would say that is scandalously underpaid for someone who saves lives. I must admit I didn't realise that.
Until you realise that all firemen do, 90% of their time, is sit around on their arses posting on political betting websites, in between the odd foray to go rescue a kitten up a sycamore.

*ducks*
Can't climb trees, health and safety says no. You need a tree surgeon for that job, he's got the climbing kit and training.

BobaFett · April 2014

IOS said:
Even I can't believe Cameron has sacked Fabricant.

What a petty, spineless, weak little bully Cameron is. He is hollowing out the Tory party for his own vanity.

At last the PB Millerphiles and the PB Millersceptics are united!

AndyJS · April 2014

Mike Fabricant has always been one of the most socially liberal Conservative MPs, although fairly right-wing on economic issues. A classical liberal, in other words.

He was chairman of Brighton Pavilion Tory association at one point, his home town.

Next · April 2014

JosiasJessop said:
I'm a techie, but I really don't understand Twitter. I should really dip my toe in, but when I sneak a peek the signal to noise ratio is exceptionally low.

How do you know? Just through searches?

When you sign up, you can decide who you want to follow (and un-follow). It is a different experience from dipping in.

Mick_Pork · April 2014

TwistedFireStopper said:

Mick_Pork said:

TwistedFireStopper said:

SeanT said:

BobaFett said:

TwistedFireStopper said:
Richard, Avery and Bobajob have put up passionate, well thought out arguments about employment law and cabinet ministers, and being hounded out of a job. Obviously, I can't argue about the legal niceties, as I do not have a Scooby about them.
I'm just peed off that cabinet ministers who get binned can claim 18 grand (Avery tells me that's "only" two months pay for a cabinet minister).
The likes of Huhne, Laws and gawd knows how many New Labour failed ministers were all eligible to claim it.
Millionaire failed ministers, collecting not far off my take home pay, even the ones who resign in disgrace, but still keeping their MP job, and all that entails.
That just doesn't sit well.
If 18 grand is what you earn full time as a fireman then I would say that is scandalously underpaid for someone who saves lives. I must admit I didn't realise that.
Until you realise that all firemen do, 90% of their time, is sit around on their arses posting on political betting websites, in between the odd foray to go rescue a kitten up a sycamore.

*ducks*
Can't climb trees, health and safety says no. You need a tree surgeon for that job, he's got the climbing kit and training.

You DO realise that's an entire clickbait article you just gave away gratis?

*chortle*
I don't reckon Sean would use it. It's a bit too Richard Littlejohn, surely?

No quite Littlejohn enough surely? It would not be terribly difficult to transpose that situation into the chaos of today for the Cameroons. Cammie as firefighter, Miller as helpless kitten and the press as evil 'elf and safety foiling them. I suppose Fabricant could come in as the tree surgeon. It certainly seem random enough for him after tonight's hilarity.

BobaFett · April 2014

AndyJS said:
Mike Fabricant has always been one of the most socially liberal Conservative MPs, although fairly right-wing on economic issues. A classical liberal, in other words.

He was chairman of Brighton Pavilion Tory association at one point, his home town.

Even the Tories are lefties in Brighton Pavilion!

MarqueeMark · April 2014

Game on!!

BobaFett · April 2014

isam said:

BobaFett said:

TwistedFireStopper said:

BobaFett said:

TwistedFireStopper said:
Richard, Avery and Bobajob have put up passionate, well thought out arguments about employment law and cabinet ministers, and being hounded out of a job. Obviously, I can't argue about the legal niceties, as I do not have a Scooby about them.
I'm just peed off that cabinet ministers who get binned can claim 18 grand (Avery tells me that's "only" two months pay for a cabinet minister).
The likes of Huhne, Laws and gawd knows how many New Labour failed ministers were all eligible to claim it.
Millionaire failed ministers, collecting not far off my take home pay, even the ones who resign in disgrace, but still keeping their MP job, and all that entails.
That just doesn't sit well.
If 18 grand is what you earn full time as a fireman then I would say that is scandalously underpaid for someone who saves lives. I must admit I didn't realise that.
Just under 20 grand take home. I'm not complaining, I love the job, but I've been told on here when talking about our strike action, that if I didn't like my pay and conditions, no one was forcing me to be a fireman, and if I didn't like it, I was free to find a better paid job. The same surely applies to politicians and cabinet ministers.
Well I don't agree with those sentiments. Presumably your skills (and indeed your rare bravery) are those of a fireman? It's reasonable for skilled labour to organise to get the best possible deal in their calling. I would advocate much higher wages than £27k ish for those who are prepared to put their lives on the line for others in the line of work.
Good God I think Im gonna puke

Too many champagne dinners?

MarqueeMark · April 2014

Well that didn't last long.....

Mick_Pork · April 2014

Carola said:
Okay, I admit I don't know much about Fabricant... 'bit of a joker' is about all. Can any Tories tell me:
Is he popular?
If so how will backbenchers react?
Why sack him *now* - good timing or (seems to me but hey..) bad?

I believe we may just find out sooner than perhaps Cammie would like.

Harpreet Khara ‏@HarpreetKhara 54m

@LOS_Fisher @tnewtondunn colourful and popular MP. Seems OTT if true @Mike_Fabricant —how about a @ConHome poll?

BobaFett · April 2014

JackW said:

SeanT said:

BobaFett said:

TwistedFireStopper said:
Richard, Avery and Bobajob have put up passionate, well thought out arguments about employment law and cabinet ministers, and being hounded out of a job. Obviously, I can't argue about the legal niceties, as I do not have a Scooby about them.
I'm just peed off that cabinet ministers who get binned can claim 18 grand (Avery tells me that's "only" two months pay for a cabinet minister).
The likes of Huhne, Laws and gawd knows how many New Labour failed ministers were all eligible to claim it.
Millionaire failed ministers, collecting not far off my take home pay, even the ones who resign in disgrace, but still keeping their MP job, and all that entails.
That just doesn't sit well.
If 18 grand is what you earn full time as a fireman then I would say that is scandalously underpaid for someone who saves lives. I must admit I didn't realise that.
Until you realise that all firemen do, 90% of their time, is sit around on their arses posting on political betting websites, in between the odd foray to go rescue a kitten up a sycamore.

*ducks*
They rescue ducks too ?!?

Lol! You see you can do new jokes!

JackW · April 2014

PB Golf Brains Trust Call

Might I ask of the collective wisdom of the sundry Sunday hackers hereabouts if perchance there is a tasty morsel of collective grey matter on the likely recipient of that male garment of the blazered green variety.

In short - a tip for the US Masters ?

isam · April 2014

BobaFett said:

isam said:

BobaFett said:

TwistedFireStopper said:

BobaFett said:

TwistedFireStopper said:
Richard, Avery and Bobajob have put up passionate, well thought out arguments about employment law and cabinet ministers, and being hounded out of a job. Obviously, I can't argue about the legal niceties, as I do not have a Scooby about them.
I'm just peed off that cabinet ministers who get binned can claim 18 grand (Avery tells me that's "only" two months pay for a cabinet minister).
The likes of Huhne, Laws and gawd knows how many New Labour failed ministers were all eligible to claim it.
Millionaire failed ministers, collecting not far off my take home pay, even the ones who resign in disgrace, but still keeping their MP job, and all that entails.
That just doesn't sit well.
If 18 grand is what you earn full time as a fireman then I would say that is scandalously underpaid for someone who saves lives. I must admit I didn't realise that.
Just under 20 grand take home. I'm not complaining, I love the job, but I've been told on here when talking about our strike action, that if I didn't like my pay and conditions, no one was forcing me to be a fireman, and if I didn't like it, I was free to find a better paid job. The same surely applies to politicians and cabinet ministers.
Well I don't agree with those sentiments. Presumably your skills (and indeed your rare bravery) are those of a fireman? It's reasonable for skilled labour to organise to get the best possible deal in their calling. I would advocate much higher wages than £27k ish for those who are prepared to put their lives on the line for others in the line of work.
Good God I think Im gonna puke
Too many champagne dinners?

No it was your excruciating crawling

BobaFett · April 2014

Bollocks. Can't watch the game - not got Sky at the moment.

Morris_Dancer · April 2014

Good evening, everyone.

Mr. Llama, expenses aren't the problem, income is.

Anyway, I'm hoping some people will buy Malevolence and enjoy Saxon & Khan enough to give my other books a try:
http://shop.ticketyboopress.co.uk/index.php?id_product=1&controller=product

Two other short stories waiting to be seen (sci-fi and steampunk[ish], neither of which are my usual fare). Hopefully one or both will get the nod.

On the plus side, my F1 race/qualifying bets are going strangely well. It's most unsettling.

BobaFett · April 2014

isam said:

BobaFett said:

isam said:

BobaFett said:

TwistedFireStopper said:

BobaFett said:

TwistedFireStopper said:
Richard, Avery and Bobajob have put up passionate, well thought out arguments about employment law and cabinet ministers, and being hounded out of a job. Obviously, I can't argue about the legal niceties, as I do not have a Scooby about them.
I'm just peed off that cabinet ministers who get binned can claim 18 grand (Avery tells me that's "only" two months pay for a cabinet minister).
The likes of Huhne, Laws and gawd knows how many New Labour failed ministers were all eligible to claim it.
Millionaire failed ministers, collecting not far off my take home pay, even the ones who resign in disgrace, but still keeping their MP job, and all that entails.
That just doesn't sit well.
If 18 grand is what you earn full time as a fireman then I would say that is scandalously underpaid for someone who saves lives. I must admit I didn't realise that.
Just under 20 grand take home. I'm not complaining, I love the job, but I've been told on here when talking about our strike action, that if I didn't like my pay and conditions, no one was forcing me to be a fireman, and if I didn't like it, I was free to find a better paid job. The same surely applies to politicians and cabinet ministers.
Well I don't agree with those sentiments. Presumably your skills (and indeed your rare bravery) are those of a fireman? It's reasonable for skilled labour to organise to get the best possible deal in their calling. I would advocate much higher wages than £27k ish for those who are prepared to put their lives on the line for others in the line of work.
Good God I think Im gonna puke
Too many champagne dinners?

No it was your excruciating crawling

Nah. My genuine view - if you don't agree, tell us yours

Stark_Dawning · April 2014

Carola said:
Okay, I admit I don't know much about Fabricant... 'bit of a joker' is about all. Can any Tories tell me:
Is he popular?
If so how will backbenchers react?
Why sack him *now* - good timing or (seems to me but hey..) bad?

I imagine those who hate Cameron - be they Labour, UKIP or Tory - will make some brief and perfunctory attempts to turn Fabricant into a martyr. However, the Miller tweet stuff is just guff. The role of Tory vice-chairman is solely a gift of the leader. Once he'd declared he'd campaign against the leader's favourite infrastructure project, then Fabricant's position in the post was at an end:

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/former-whip-michael-fabricant-lead-6928963

isam · April 2014

BobaFett said:

isam said:

BobaFett said:

isam said:

BobaFett said:

TwistedFireStopper said:

BobaFett said:

TwistedFireStopper said:
Richard, Avery and Bobajob have put up passionate, well thought out arguments about employment law and cabinet ministers, and being hounded out of a job. Obviously, I can't argue about the legal niceties, as I do not have a Scooby about them.
I'm just peed off that cabinet ministers who get binned can claim 18 grand (Avery tells me that's "only" two months pay for a cabinet minister).
The likes of Huhne, Laws and gawd knows how many New Labour failed ministers were all eligible to claim it.
Millionaire failed ministers, collecting not far off my take home pay, even the ones who resign in disgrace, but still keeping their MP job, and all that entails.
That just doesn't sit well.
If 18 grand is what you earn full time as a fireman then I would say that is scandalously underpaid for someone who saves lives. I must admit I didn't realise that.
Just under 20 grand take home. I'm not complaining, I love the job, but I've been told on here when talking about our strike action, that if I didn't like my pay and conditions, no one was forcing me to be a fireman, and if I didn't like it, I was free to find a better paid job. The same surely applies to politicians and cabinet ministers.
Well I don't agree with those sentiments. Presumably your skills (and indeed your rare bravery) are those of a fireman? It's reasonable for skilled labour to organise to get the best possible deal in their calling. I would advocate much higher wages than £27k ish for those who are prepared to put their lives on the line for others in the line of work.
Good God I think Im gonna puke
Too many champagne dinners?

No it was your excruciating crawling

Nah. My genuine view - if you don't agree, tell us yours

I agree fireman should be paid a lot more, I didn't disagree with the sentiment just your cringeworthy way of putting it

BobaFett · April 2014

isam said:

BobaFett said:

isam said:

BobaFett said:

isam said:

BobaFett said:

TwistedFireStopper said:

BobaFett said:

TwistedFireStopper said:
Richard, Avery and Bobajob have put up passionate, well thought out arguments about employment law and cabinet ministers, and being hounded out of a job. Obviously, I can't argue about the legal niceties, as I do not have a Scooby about them.
I'm just peed off that cabinet ministers who get binned can claim 18 grand (Avery tells me that's "only" two months pay for a cabinet minister).
The likes of Huhne, Laws and gawd knows how many New Labour failed ministers were all eligible to claim it.
Millionaire failed ministers, collecting not far off my take home pay, even the ones who resign in disgrace, but still keeping their MP job, and all that entails.
That just doesn't sit well.
If 18 grand is what you earn full time as a fireman then I would say that is scandalously underpaid for someone who saves lives. I must admit I didn't realise that.
Just under 20 grand take home. I'm not complaining, I love the job, but I've been told on here when talking about our strike action, that if I didn't like my pay and conditions, no one was forcing me to be a fireman, and if I didn't like it, I was free to find a better paid job. The same surely applies to politicians and cabinet ministers.
Well I don't agree with those sentiments. Presumably your skills (and indeed your rare bravery) are those of a fireman? It's reasonable for skilled labour to organise to get the best possible deal in their calling. I would advocate much higher wages than £27k ish for those who are prepared to put their lives on the line for others in the line of work.
Good God I think Im gonna puke
Too many champagne dinners?

No it was your excruciating crawling

Nah. My genuine view - if you don't agree, tell us yours
I agree fireman should be paid a lot more, I didn't disagree with the sentiment just your cringeworthy way of putting it

Fair enough, I can see how you read it that way. Not intended.

TwistedFireStopper · April 2014

foxinsoxuk said:
Ever consider a transfer to this lot?:http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2011/12/07/9272989-firefighters-let-home-burn-over-75-fee-again

Now there is an organisation that knows its taxpayers!

TwistedFireStopper said:

SeanT said:

BobaFett said:

TwistedFireStopper said:
Richard, Avery and Bobajob have put up passionate, well thought out arguments about employment law and cabinet ministers, and being hounded out of a job. Obviously, I can't argue about the legal niceties, as I do not have a Scooby about them.
I'm just peed off that cabinet ministers who get binned can claim 18 grand (Avery tells me that's "only" two months pay for a cabinet minister).
The likes of Huhne, Laws and gawd knows how many New Labour failed ministers were all eligible to claim it.
Millionaire failed ministers, collecting not far off my take home pay, even the ones who resign in disgrace, but still keeping their MP job, and all that entails.
That just doesn't sit well.
If 18 grand is what you earn full time as a fireman then I would say that is scandalously underpaid for someone who saves lives. I must admit I didn't realise that.
Until you realise that all firemen do, 90% of their time, is sit around on their arses posting on political betting websites, in between the odd foray to go rescue a kitten up a sycamore.

*ducks*
Can't climb trees, health and safety says no. You need a tree surgeon for that job, he's got the climbing kit and training.

I love stories like that, its just plain barmy. Seriously, the standards of firefighter training, competence and procedures in the US is just so random, it's scary. It veers from gungho to keystone cops and all points in between, from FDNY to Hicksville. Whenever I give a watch technical training lecture, I always manage to find a YouTube vid from America on how NOT to do it.

Omnium · April 2014

Ed really doesn't come off well in this coverage. Obviously this is mainly about the Tories having to back up, and that's quite right - however despite the reasonably careful lengths that Labour have taken to not be seen to be schoolboys in a playground remarkably Ed seems to have circumvented them.

Fabricant seems to want to rush into the Zulu spears. Ho hum.

isam · April 2014

On Topic

Why don't any of the bars on the charts add up to 100%?

HurstLlama · April 2014

"I would advocate much higher wages than £27k ish for those who are prepared to put their lives on the line for others in the line of work."

How much higher would think is acceptable?

JosiasJessop · April 2014

Next said:

JosiasJessop said:
I'm a techie, but I really don't understand Twitter. I should really dip my toe in, but when I sneak a peek the signal to noise ratio is exceptionally low.
How do you know? Just through searches?

When you sign up, you can decide who you want to follow (and un-follow). It is a different experience from dipping in.

I don't know for sure. But there hasn't yet been a time when I've thought: "Oh my goodness, I missed something really important because I'm not on Twitter." But perhaps I don't know I'm missing something.

It was such a moment that finally got me onto FB.

It also seems to bring out the worst in people.

Next · April 2014

SeanT said:
Why should they be paid "a lot more"? Seriously? Just because it's a job that *sounds* brave?

Ludicrous. If they can recruit enough firemen to do the job at £18k a year - presumably attracted by the macho image, the occasional excitement, the endless women in love with the uniform, the ability to post on pb during the 90% of the day when there's nothing to do (and good luck to firemen who sign on for that, I hope they all get laid) - then £18k is the right salary.

Or maybe we should just give them £90k cause it sounds nice.

Interesting. Using similar logic, please tell us how much you think MPs should be paid.

Carola · April 2014

Stark_Dawning said:

Carola said:
Okay, I admit I don't know much about Fabricant... 'bit of a joker' is about all. Can any Tories tell me:
Is he popular?
If so how will backbenchers react?
Why sack him *now* - good timing or (seems to me but hey..) bad?
I imagine those who hate Cameron - be they Labour, UKIP or Tory - will make some brief and perfunctory attempts to turn Fabricant into a martyr. However, the Miller tweet stuff is just guff. The role of Tory vice-chairman is solely a gift of the leader. Once he'd declared he'd campaign against the leader's favourite infrastructure project, then Fabricant's position in the post was at an end:

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/former-whip-michael-fabricant-lead-6928963

What do you reckon re the timing?

Mick_Pork · April 2014

TwistedFireStopper said:

foxinsoxuk said:
Ever consider a transfer to this lot?:http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2011/12/07/9272989-firefighters-let-home-burn-over-75-fee-again

Now there is an organisation that knows its taxpayers!

TwistedFireStopper said:

SeanT said:

BobaFett said:

TwistedFireStopper said:
Richard, Avery and Bobajob have put up passionate, well thought out arguments about employment law and cabinet ministers, and being hounded out of a job. Obviously, I can't argue about the legal niceties, as I do not have a Scooby about them.
I'm just peed off that cabinet ministers who get binned can claim 18 grand (Avery tells me that's "only" two months pay for a cabinet minister).
The likes of Huhne, Laws and gawd knows how many New Labour failed ministers were all eligible to claim it.
Millionaire failed ministers, collecting not far off my take home pay, even the ones who resign in disgrace, but still keeping their MP job, and all that entails.
That just doesn't sit well.
If 18 grand is what you earn full time as a fireman then I would say that is scandalously underpaid for someone who saves lives. I must admit I didn't realise that.
Until you realise that all firemen do, 90% of their time, is sit around on their arses posting on political betting websites, in between the odd foray to go rescue a kitten up a sycamore.

*ducks*
Can't climb trees, health and safety says no. You need a tree surgeon for that job, he's got the climbing kit and training.

I love stories like that, its just plain barmy. Seriously, the standards of firefighter training, competence and procedures in the US is just so random, it's scary. It veers from gungho to keystone cops and all points in between, from FDNY to Hicksville. Whenever I give a watch technical training lecture, I always manage to find a YouTube vid from America on how NOT to do it.

That's all very well but how would you cope with a mockney emergency? No laughing matter as these cheeky loveable scamps are hard as nails yet all too prone to combusting into effete columnists flaming and prancing all over the place shouting "Gertcha!" and "mashed potatoes!" A danger to others and a danger to themselves if not immediately doused in water.

Edin_Rokz · April 2014

TwistedFireStopper said:

SeanT said:

BobaFett said:
Richard, Avery and Bobajob have put up passionate, well thought out arguments about employment law and cabinet ministers, and being hounded out of a job. Obviously, I can't argue about the legal niceties, as I do not have a Scooby about them.
I'm just peed off that cabinet ministers who get binned can claim 18 grand (Avery tells me that's "only" two months pay for a cabinet minister).
The likes of Huhne, Laws and gawd knows how many New Labour failed ministers were all eligible to claim it.
Millionaire failed ministers, collecting not far off my take home pay, even the ones who resign in disgrace, but still keeping their MP job, and all that entails.
That just doesn't sit well.
If 18 grand is what you earn full time as a fireman then I would say that is scandalously underpaid for someone who saves lives. I must admit I didn't realise that.
Until you realise that all firemen do, 90% of their time, is sit around on their arses posting on political betting websites, in between the odd foray to go rescue a kitten up a sycamore.

*ducks*

Can't climb trees, health and safety says no. You need a tree surgeon for that job, he's got the climbing kit and training.

Watched firemen "rescue" a cat from a particularly high tree a few years ago. Forget the ladders, a firehose at just enough pressure to reach the cat and a soggy moggy decided to come down on its own. Did it go up to the firemen to thank them? Nope, once it reached touch down on earth it was off at full speed.

AndyJS · April 2014

"Michael Fabricant ‏@Mike_Fabricant 21h

And after dinner and my talk to Holborn & St Pancras Conservatives, I climbed Primrose Hill. 1st time. What a view! pic.twitter.com/OcA6VB5tjD"

twitter.com/Mike_Fabricant/status/453660258989518848

isam · April 2014

SeanT said:

isam said:

BobaFett said:

isam said:

BobaFett said:

isam said:

BobaFett said:

TwistedFireStopper said:

BobaFett said:

TwistedFireStopper said:
Richard, Avery and Bobajob have put up passionate, well thought out arguments about employment law and cabinet ministers, and being hounded out of a job. Obviously, I can't argue about the legal niceties, as I do not have a Scooby about them.
I'm just peed off that cabinet ministers who get binned can claim 18 grand (Avery tells me that's "only" two months pay for a cabinet minister).
The likes of Huhne, Laws and gawd knows how many New Labour failed ministers were all eligible to claim it.
Millionaire failed ministers, collecting not far off my take home pay, even the ones who resign in disgrace, but still keeping their MP job, and all that entails.
That just doesn't sit well.
If 18 grand is what you earn full time as a fireman then I would say that is scandalously underpaid for someone who saves lives. I must admit I didn't realise that.

Good God I think Im gonna puke
Too many champagne dinners?

No it was your excruciating crawling

Nah. My genuine view - if you don't agree, tell us yours
I agree fireman should be paid a lot more, I didn't disagree with the sentiment just your cringeworthy way of putting it
Why should they be paid "a lot more"? Seriously? Just because it's a job that *sounds* brave?

Ludicrous. If they can recruit enough firemen to do the job at £18k a year - presumably attracted by the macho image, the occasional excitement, the endless women in love with the uniform, the ability to post on pb during the 90% of the day when there's nothing to do (and good luck to firemen who sign on for that, I hope they all get laid) - then £18k is the right salary.

Or maybe we should just give them £90k cause it sounds nice.

I get the feeling you're being argumentative for the sake of it because of the Londoner thing (as last night you tried to bring a racial element into the debate that hadn't previously existed with your Pakistani comment), but anyway, I didn't say £90k, I just think they should take home more than £18k even if a lot of the time they are on standby.

Feel free to disagree, its not a big deal

Morris_Dancer · April 2014

Welcome to pb.com, Mr. Barnes.

Could be worse. The Coalition could've continued Labour's work and introduced ID cards whilst at the same time shafting the economy.

Mick_Pork · April 2014

Bit blunt yet I somehow doubt it's a rogue viewpoint after todays minishambles.

Brydon ‏@Brydon_N 29m

Cameron backs Miller then sacks Fabricant for stating the f**king obvious .. My loyalty and support now strained #Tory #DavidCameron

GIN1138 · April 2014

These squalls come and go for all governments. I doubt the effects will be particularly long lasting, though the timing is unfortunate with the euro elections so close.

Tykejohnno · April 2014

Morris_Dancer said:
Welcome to pb.com, Mr. Barnes.

Could be worse. The Coalition could've continued Labour's work and introduced ID cards whilst at the same time shafting the economy.

Or missing a open goal ;-)

http://order-order.com/2014/04/09/ed-westland-miliband-misses-open-goal/

Morris_Dancer · April 2014

Mr. Johnno, are you suggesting Ed Miliband is the Pastor Maldonado of British politics?

TwistedFireStopper · April 2014

@Seant

Why should they be paid "a lot more"? Seriously? Just because it's a job that *sounds* brave?

Ludicrous. If they can recruit enough firemen to do the job at £18k a year - presumably attracted by the macho image, the occasional excitement, the endless women in love with the uniform, the ability to post on pb during the 90% of the day when there's nothing to do (and good luck to firemen who sign on for that, I hope they all get laid) - then £18k is the right salary.

Or maybe we should just give them £90k cause it sounds nic

You're right, it's not like Backdraft or Chicago Fire every minute of the day, any firey who says it is is a Walt, but it has it's moments. There's no sitting around drinking tea, no snooker tables, no volleyball. It's training, equipment tests, fire safety, visits, water plans, more training.
I've never posted from work, as far as i can remember, we have a restrictive mobile phone policy. I can't fault your logic, on the ladies, I've always punched above my weigh, no complaints!
I'm not asking for more money, I manage on 28 grand a year (19 takehome). I wouldn't mind a bit more, obviously. If they could have just left my pension alone, though....

JosiasJessop · April 2014

SeanT said:

HurstLlama said:
"I would advocate much higher wages than £27k ish for those who are prepared to put their lives on the line for others in the line of work."

How much higher would think is acceptable?
I'd be interested to know how much they think we should give British Army soldiers, if they are so worried about underpaid firemen.

Firemen risk occasional injury, and, very very rarely, death. About 7 or 8 die a year, as far as I can see from a quick Google. Also from a swift Google, there seems to be about 35,000 firefighters in the UK.

So you'd have to be a fireman for about 4,000 years before you're likely to die, in the job, on average.

4000 years.

Fishermen, by contrast, die at FAR greater rates.

Indeed if America is anything to go by, firefighting is one of the safest jobs you can have, not much riskier than being a... cashier.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2013/01/08/168897140/the-deadliest-jobs-in-america-in-one-graphic

Sentimental lefty halfwits. It is always a challenge to underestimate their intelligence.

You also have to take into account the perks of the job. Firemen get to play with some cool kit. Soldiers, on the other hand, get to play with some *seriously* cool kit. Although I daresay after twenty years said kit is probably no longer either fun or cool.

On that account, my job must have less perks that a McD's burger flipper. No-one ever got pulled by saying: "Hey doll, I was just playing with my new handheld spectrum analyser!"

Your job has some of the best perks. Git.

isam · April 2014

SeanT said:

isam said:

SeanT said:

isam said:

BobaFett said:

isam said:

BobaFett said:

isam said:

BobaFett said:

TwistedFireStopper said:

BobaFett said:

TwistedFireStopper said:
Richard, Avery and Bobajob have put up passionate, well thought out arguments about employment law and cabinet ministers, and being hounded out of a job. Obviously, I can't argue about the legal niceties, as I do not have a Scooby about them.
I'm just peed off that cabinet ministers who get binned can claim 18 grand (Avery tells me that's "only" two months pay for a cabinet minister).
The likes of Huhne, Laws and gawd knows how many New Labour failed ministers were all eligible to claim it.
Millionaire failed ministers, collecting not far off my take home pay, even the ones who resign in disgrace, but still keeping their MP job, and all that entails.
That just doesn't sit well.
If 18 grand is what you earn full time as a fireman then I would say that is scandalously underpaid for someone who saves lives. I must admit I didn't realise that.

Good God I think Im gonna puke
Too many champagne dinners?

No it was your excruciating crawling

Nah. My genuine view - if you don't agree, tell us yours
I agree fireman should be paid a lot more, I didn't disagree with the sentiment just your cringeworthy way of putting it
Why should they be paid "a lot more"? Seriously? Just because it's a job that *sounds* brave?

I get the feeling you're being argumentative for the sake of it because of the Londoner thing (as last night you tried to bring a racial element into the debate that hadn't previously existed with your Pakistani comment), but anyway, I didn't say £90k, I just think they should take home more than £18k even if a lot of the time they are on standby.

Feel free to disagree, its not a big deal
I'm not disagreeing, I am - once more - pointing out, with accompanying evidence, that you are completely misinformed and entirely wrong.

There is a difference between disagreement and comprehensive rebuttal, which you would do well to learn.

Here are the death stats for firemen in the USA, I doubt the UK is much different.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2013/01/08/168897140/the-deadliest-jobs-in-america-in-one-graphic

Perhaps we should pay cashiers £100k a year, for bravely risking death by till-explosion.

"Completely misinformed and entirely wrong" for saying I think fireman should get a lot more than £27k a year?

I think you're trying too hard

SquareRoot · April 2014

I think PB is turning into a religious site. The piety of some on here suggests that they should be talking holy orders.

Mick_Pork · April 2014

Barnes said:
Is a Telegraph blogger, let's say for the sake of argument, more valuable to society than a fireman?

A mockney is the most valuable of all. The gift to comedy is simply priceless.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJuIH721oIk

Carnyx · April 2014

TwistedFireStopper said:

foxinsoxuk said:
Ever consider a transfer to this lot?:http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2011/12/07/9272989-firefighters-let-home-burn-over-75-fee-again

Now there is an organisation that knows its taxpayers!

TwistedFireStopper said:

SeanT said:

BobaFett said:

TwistedFireStopper said:
Richard, Avery and Bobajob have put up passionate, well thought out arguments about employment law and cabinet ministers, and being hounded out of a job. Obviously, I can't argue about the legal niceties, as I do not have a Scooby about them.
I'm just peed off that cabinet ministers who get binned can claim 18 grand (Avery tells me that's "only" two months pay for a cabinet minister).
The likes of Huhne, Laws and gawd knows how many New Labour failed ministers were all eligible to claim it.
Millionaire failed ministers, collecting not far off my take home pay, even the ones who resign in disgrace, but still keeping their MP job, and all that entails.
That just doesn't sit well.
If 18 grand is what you earn full time as a fireman then I would say that is scandalously underpaid for someone who saves lives. I must admit I didn't realise that.
Until you realise that all firemen do, 90% of their time, is sit around on their arses posting on political betting websites, in between the odd foray to go rescue a kitten up a sycamore.

*ducks*
Can't climb trees, health and safety says no. You need a tree surgeon for that job, he's got the climbing kit and training.

I love stories like that, its just plain barmy. Seriously, the standards of firefighter training, competence and procedures in the US is just so random, it's scary. It veers from gungho to keystone cops and all points in between, from FDNY to Hicksville. Whenever I give a watch technical training lecture, I always manage to find a YouTube vid from America on how NOT to do it.

How about two or three links to your favourites?

Morris_Dancer · April 2014

Mr. Root, is this a reference to my forthcoming ascension to the Archbishopric of Canterbury?

MonikerDiCanio · April 2014

Mick_Pork said:

Barnes said:
Is a Telegraph blogger, let's say for the sake of argument, more valuable to society than a fireman?
A mockney is the most valuable of all. The gift to comedy is simply priceless.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJuIH721oIk

Phoney cockneys are called mockneys. Should we call fake Scots like you Mock Jocks ?

compouter2 · April 2014

Evening all, have I missed anything from the master of PR tonight? Rumours are he has fecked up even more, just to get Miller off the front pages. On the bright side at least we know he wouldn't just sack anyone at the first sign of trouble....oh no.

JackW · April 2014

SquareRoot said:
I think PB is turning into a religious site. The piety of some on here suggests that they should be talking holy orders.

Bless you my son ....

AndyJS · April 2014

"The newly discovered Heartbleed bug is being called the Web’s worst security bug ever.

It allows hackers to steal passwords and login details when users visit vulnerable sites — undetected. That’s the bad part: affected sites probably have no idea they’re vulnerable. The bug is subject to an emergency security advisory. Some experts are estimating that up to 66% of the Internet’s servers could be affected. Each server has to be fixed manually. So it could take a while."

http://www.cultofmac.com/273524/heartbleed-security-bug-apple-users-need-know/#AeoCfkZkwt3vKtad.99

IOS · April 2014

Fabricant was / is a tory grassroots champion.

I'm guessing a couple of hundred more members leave and join UKIP.

MikeK · April 2014

JackW said:
PB Golf Brains Trust Call

Might I ask of the collective wisdom of the sundry Sunday hackers hereabouts if perchance there is a tasty morsel of collective grey matter on the likely recipient of that male garment of the blazered green variety.

In short - a tip for the US Masters ?

I can give you three likely and one unlikely winner of this years masters.
1. Matt Kuchar
2. Jason Day
3. Dustin Johnson

And in the unlikely event that he starts playing well, Ernie Els. I would love to see Ernie in a Green Jacket.

Mick_Pork · April 2014

Andrew Ducker ‏@andrewducker 58m

The photographer who could not capture Tony Blair, because "there was nothing there" http://bcove.me/hsfj3s20

All too true but sadly likely to upset those who adore Blair like monica.

Tykejohnno · April 2014

BBC Breaking News ✔ @BBCBreaking

Lord Myners quits board of UK Co-operative Group after criticism of his proposals to reform the troubled mutual http://bbc.in/1qjfQSH

Morris_Dancer · April 2014

Mr. T, just curious (as I've been thinking about this lately), when you're writing do you plan in detail ahead of time, or work more spontaneously?

TwistedFireStopper · April 2014

Carnyx said:

TwistedFireStopper said:

foxinsoxuk said:
Ever consider a transfer to this lot?:http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2011/12/07/9272989-firefighters-let-home-burn-over-75-fee-again

Now there is an organisation that knows its taxpayers!

TwistedFireStopper said:

SeanT said:

BobaFett said:

TwistedFireStopper said:
Richard, Avery and Bobajob have put up passionate, well thought out arguments about employment law and cabinet ministers, and being hounded out of a job. Obviously, I can't argue about the legal niceties, as I do not have a Scooby about them.
I'm just peed off that cabinet ministers who get binned can claim 18 grand (Avery tells me that's "only" two months pay for a cabinet minister).
The likes of Huhne, Laws and gawd knows how many New Labour failed ministers were all eligible to claim it.
Millionaire failed ministers, collecting not far off my take home pay, even the ones who resign in disgrace, but still keeping their MP job, and all that entails.
That just doesn't sit well.
If 18 grand is what you earn full time as a fireman then I would say that is scandalously underpaid for someone who saves lives. I must admit I didn't realise that.
Until you realise that all firemen do, 90% of their time, is sit around on their arses posting on political betting websites, in between the odd foray to go rescue a kitten up a sycamore.

*ducks*
Can't climb trees, health and safety says no. You need a tree surgeon for that job, he's got the climbing kit and training.

I love stories like that, its just plain barmy. Seriously, the standards of firefighter training, competence and procedures in the US is just so random, it's scary. It veers from gungho to keystone cops and all points in between, from FDNY to Hicksville. Whenever I give a watch technical training lecture, I always manage to find a YouTube vid from America on how NOT to do it.

How about two or three links to your favourites?

I'm on a tablet that doesn't play well with YouTube, but try this one. It's private fire departments, same as the link that DoctorFox posted. We like to use this one as an argument against privatisation!

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=MrFFU5OOFMGV7AbnhoH4Dw&url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhD_5T4F7aw&cd=1&ved=0CCsQtwIwAA&usg=AFQjCNEocq5T5DqbhCmC9CdU0xt6Im0fBQ&sig2=O3baZBQ9v7vTk8xHUISj6g

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