politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Devastating defeat for Boris Johnson – and perhaps Brexit
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Do read the full judgement. It's beautiful.0
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Yes, of course they should compound their PM's political difficulties. Or not!rottenborough said:
Yep. Tory MPs will settle for nothing less now.nico67 said:Cummings will be gone by the morning .
Bozo needs to sacrifice his puppet master to have any chance of remaining PM.0 -
The Queen agreed to the PM's request to prorogue and gave Royal Assent to the anti No Deal Bill Parliament passed, she has acted entirely properly throughoutOblitusSumMe said:Did the Queen err in agreeing to the prorogation?
I don't see what use she is if she won't stand up for the law herself when given bad advice by her ministers.0 -
No, court rulings don't work like that.tlg86 said:Out of curiosity, is there any comeback on the judges who said this wasn't justiciable?
A similar example, if a jury finds Mr A guilty, but the appeal court upholds the appeal, then there is no comeback against the jury. It is possible that Mr A is awarded financial compensation, but that won't happen as a result of today's SC ruling.
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It is indeed an ill wind that blows nobody any good.Richard_Nabavi said:Still not all bad news for Boris. It's bumped Ms Arcuri off the front pages.
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Indeed but surely May shouldn't be in the relegation zone? There must be another Tory PM from the past who was as hapless as Cameron and Johnson?Scott_P said:0 -
The courts seem really really in favour of taking back control of our laws, which hopefully aligns them with the man in the street.blueblue said:
"Breaking the Law", FFS! It's hardly like punching someone in the street, where the illegality is obvious beforehand. Instead, it took 3 court cases - with the English court, significantly from a political perspective, declining to intervene in the government's decision - before the action was declared illegal retrospectively.kinabalu said:
The PM breaking the law IS a big deal.Philip_Thompson said:In the long run I feel this is much ado about nothing. This Parliament won't pass Brexit. Next Parliament will be decided by the voters. How many votes will be swung by today?
But as to political impact, I think you are spot on.
I think Boris will take an inevitable hit in the polls for "losing", but the man in the street will also not fail to notice how Parliament, the Speaker, and now the Courts are blatantly stacked against what they voted for...0 -
I also do not see that this hurts Johnson. Perhaps it even helps. It feeds the "Me against the Remainer Establishment' narrative that (we are told) he is seeking to build.HYUFD said:Yes the diehard Remainers will enjoy their moment in the sun (though US style political appointments of Supreme Court justices are now inevitable) but in the long term Boris will benefit.
He and Cummings now have the narrative they want, they doing everything possible to deliver the will of the people against the diehard Remainers in Parliament and the judiciary who want to extend again and ultimately likely revoke. The more that narrative continues the more they squeeze the Brexit Party vote in the Tories favour while Remainers split between the LDs and Corbyn Labour.
Plus of course Boris will resign as PM and lead the Tories into opposition on a Brexit with a Deal or No Deal ticket to continue the battle with the diehard Remainers in opposition rather than stay PM and agree to extend0 -
Cameron is easily at the top of that list.Scott_P said:0 -
Or an extension of A50 before an election - which I think is highly likely.IanB2 said:From the lead: ”it’s now surely highly likely that we will have another general election before the A50 period expires ”
Isn’t this unlikely, and almost impossible, because of time? Unless David is saying an election will emerge from the next few days?0 -
No Boris wants to stay leader to deliver the will of the people with a majority against the diehard Remainer traitors to democracy who make up most current MPseristdoof said:
If Johnson resigns just before 31st Oct but remains as leader for the following GE, he will be torn apart by journalists. "You chose to resign as PM, but now you want to be PM again!"Gardenwalker said:There will be no election until after October 31.
The only question now is whether Boris conclude a deal, ask for an extension under the Benn Act, or resign on the eve of October 31.
I rather suspect the latter.0 -
It seems the only way we'll get Brexit is to vote for a Brexit Party/Farage government.
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Well done David. You certainly knew when to jump off a sinking ship. If any 'Contempt of Parliament Motions' are to be tabled I'm sure Matt Hancock will take full responsibility. There is something serene about the law. Such clear logical explanations are rare anywhere else1
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No - the Act that parliament passed before the False Prorogation means that the PM will almost certainly now have to request an A50 extension to Jan 2020 and has no power to reject it if offered.IanB2 said:From the lead: ”it’s now surely highly likely that we will have another general election before the A50 period expires ”
Isn’t this unlikely, and almost impossible, because of time? Unless David is saying an election will emerge from the next few days?
The 31 October deadline is, for practical purposes, dead.0 -
Ballsy stuff from a chap who just put 'MPs to return to Commons to frustrate brexit' on the front page...AlastairMeeks said:0 -
Question: If the prorogation of Parliament is null and void, does that mean that the bills that never made it through are now back on the agenda?0
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As I understand it. Yes.Phil said:Question: If the prorogation of Parliament is null and void, does that mean that the bills that never made it through are now back on the agenda?
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It's a big deal. He behaved in a wholly improper manner. You should not downplay it just because you side with him politically. It is about standards in public life and the integrity of our constitution.blueblue said:"Breaking the Law", FFS! It's hardly like punching someone in the street, where the illegality is obvious beforehand. Instead, it took 3 court cases - with the English court, significantly from a political perspective, declining to intervene in the government's decision - before the action was declared illegal retrospectively.
I think Boris will take an inevitable hit in the polls for "losing", but the man in the street will also not fail to notice how Parliament, the Speaker, and now the Courts are blatantly stacked against what they voted for...
However (sadly) I agree with your assessment of the electoral impact. If anything I think it helps the crim.0 -
The Supreme Court is now clearly a political body and more conservative judges need to be appointed by the Lord ChancellorNigelb said:
Why ?HYUFD said:Yes the diehard Remainers will enjoy their moment in the sun (though US style political appointments of Supreme Court justices are now inevitable)...
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There are not enough statues of women. I think the joke in Edinburgh is that there are more statues of named animals than of named women in the city.TheScreamingEagles said:God I love the law.
I think I may put Lady Hale in the same category as my heroes, Atticus Finch and Henry Drummond/Clarence Darrow.
Perhaps we should erect a statue of Lady Hale?0 -
I suggested at the time that the Queen had erred.OblitusSumMe said:Did the Queen err in agreeing to the prorogation?
I don't see what use she is if she won't stand up for the law herself when given bad advice by her ministers.
And had been seen to have erred.0 -
If Johnson is going to stand by his assertion that this was simply to bring in a new QS surely he must immediately prorogue for a minimum period to achieve this?0
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Yes, the bills haven’t fallen and the resumption of the (non-adjourned) sitting means they can be considered - though the government still has to schedule the business.Phil said:Question: If the prorogation of Parliament is null and void, does that mean that the bills that never made it through are now back on the agenda?
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Would just increase his popularity further against the die hard Remainer traitors to democracy and he would be re elected in Uxbridge easilyeek said:
Not if Boris is found in Contempt of Parliament and thrown out of Parliament.HYUFD said:Yes the diehard Remainers will enjoy their moment in the sun (though US style political appointments of Supreme Court justices are now inevitable) but in the long term Boris will benefit.
He and Cummings now have the narrative they want, they doing everything possible to deliver the will of the people against the diehard Remainers in Parliament and the judiciary who want to extend again and ultimately likely revoke. The more that narrative continues the more they squeeze the Brexit Party vote in the Tories favour while Remainers split between the LDs and Corbyn Labour.
Plus of course Boris will resign as PM and lead the Tories into opposition on a Brexit with a Deal or No Deal ticket to continue the battle with the diehard Remainers in opposition rather than stay PM and agree to extend0 -
But you and Boris said prorogation was nothing to do with Brexit.HYUFD said:
The Supreme Court is now clearly a political body and more conservative judges need to be appointed by the Lord ChancellorNigelb said:
Why ?HYUFD said:Yes the diehard Remainers will enjoy their moment in the sun (though US style political appointments of Supreme Court justices are now inevitable)...
So why is this a Brexit angle from you ?0 -
Yep - the full weight of the Remain Establishment (and I voted Remain, FFS!) is now squarely against Boris and the Government. I think that for every joyful post on social media today, there'll be a voter in a small town nursing a dose of sullen anger that the entire Establishment is stacked against them, and that will continue to support Boris' polling numbers and give him a shot at the next General Election.kinabalu said:
I also do not see that this hurts Johnson. Perhaps it even helps. It feeds the "Me against the Remainer Establishment' narrative that (we are told) he is seeking to build.HYUFD said:Yes the diehard Remainers will enjoy their moment in the sun (though US style political appointments of Supreme Court justices are now inevitable) but in the long term Boris will benefit.
He and Cummings now have the narrative they want, they doing everything possible to deliver the will of the people against the diehard Remainers in Parliament and the judiciary who want to extend again and ultimately likely revoke. The more that narrative continues the more they squeeze the Brexit Party vote in the Tories favour while Remainers split between the LDs and Corbyn Labour.
Plus of course Boris will resign as PM and lead the Tories into opposition on a Brexit with a Deal or No Deal ticket to continue the battle with the diehard Remainers in opposition rather than stay PM and agree to extend0 -
Perhaps Boris could find a way of appealing to the European Court of Justice! Know it won't happen but it would really be fun.0
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Prediction. This judgement doesn’t change much, practically, but it is transformative in terms of mood and emotion.
That is to say: the Remainers can now smell the frying bacon of victory. They are salivating. All they can think about is bacon. There was once a time when they might have compromised with the vegetarians in the house, who abhor bacon, and maybe settled for toast and jam, but no longer. That bacon is breakfast.
The Remainers will push on and Brexit will somehow be cancelled. Lord knows what that will do to the country, but it will likely not be good. The bacon might be poisoned.1 -
So? Surely his point in that tweet is to say preventing that debate from happening was always the point of prorogation, and the furious denials of that from Johnson down were always, transparently, fraudulent.Drutt said:
Ballsy stuff from a chap who just put 'MPs to return to Commons to frustrate brexit' on the front page...AlastairMeeks said:0 -
The judgment seems pretty conservative as against an ‘interesting’ attempt at novel constitutional innovation. Or do you mean Conservative judges, who will consider it a priority to interpret the law in line with the current views of the Conservative Party?HYUFD said:
The Supreme Court is now clearly a political body and more conservative judges need to be appointed by the Lord ChancellorNigelb said:
Why ?HYUFD said:Yes the diehard Remainers will enjoy their moment in the sun (though US style political appointments of Supreme Court justices are now inevitable)...
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I'm looking forward to Cumberbatch's portrayal of Cummings standing by his huge war-game-table totally losing it, as he watches lady Hale's read out the SC's verdict.Phil said:Man, I’m really looking forward to the 10,000 word posts on Cummings’ blog about he was right & everyone else was wrong. They’re going to be barnstormers.
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It wasn't, the SC judges decides otherwise for political reasonsTheScreamingEagles said:
But you and Boris said prorogation was nothing to do with Brexit.HYUFD said:
The Supreme Court is now clearly a political body and more conservative judges need to be appointed by the Lord ChancellorNigelb said:
Why ?HYUFD said:Yes the diehard Remainers will enjoy their moment in the sun (though US style political appointments of Supreme Court justices are now inevitable)...
So why is this a Brexit angle from you ?0 -
Ms Miller was proven correct, wasn't she?
Shes done more for democracy than the hordes of 'bring back control' Brexiteers.1 -
HYUFD said:
Yes the diehard Remainers will enjoy their moment in the sun (though US style political appointments of Supreme Court justices are now inevitable) but in the long term Boris will benefit.
He and Cummings now have the narrative they want, they doing everything possible to deliver the will of the people against the diehard Remainers in Parliament and the judiciary who want to extend again and ultimately likely revoke. The more that narrative continues the more they squeeze the Brexit Party vote in the Tories favour while Remainers split between the LDs and Corbyn Labour.
Plus of course Boris will resign as PM and lead the Tories into opposition on a Brexit with a Deal or No Deal ticket to continue the battle with the diehard Remainers in opposition rather than stay PM and agree to extend
If that was the plan all along it was despicable.HYUFD said:Yes the diehard Remainers will enjoy their moment in the sun (though US style political appointments of Supreme Court justices are now inevitable) but in the long term Boris will benefit.
He and Cummings now have the narrative they want, they doing everything possible to deliver the will of the people against the diehard Remainers in Parliament and the judiciary who want to extend again and ultimately likely revoke. The more that narrative continues the more they squeeze the Brexit Party vote in the Tories favour while Remainers split between the LDs and Corbyn Labour.
Plus of course Boris will resign as PM and lead the Tories into opposition on a Brexit with a Deal or No Deal ticket to continue the battle with the diehard Remainers in opposition rather than stay PM and agree to extend0 -
Anger that Cameron lost the referendum does not mean he was among the worst pms ever. That's just silly and is in a lot of cases clearly the reason for the .rankingmurali_s said:
Indeed but surely May shouldn't be in the relegation zone? There must be another Tory PM from the past who was as hapless as Cameron and Johnson?Scott_P said:0 -
I still haven't seen anyone defend the idea of PM Corbyn proroguing parliament to allow something, such as the withdraw of funding for the military as given example by John Major. This is a constitutional issue, not a Brexit issue. That Johnson was willing to try to jump through any loophole he could see in the constitution to enact his version of Brexit does not change that.
Please, can any of those complaining about this, tell me why they would defend any other PM proroguing parliament to enact a policy, in the knowledge that majority of the Commons rejects said policy and would want time to scrutinise the government.0 -
Brilliant couple of days for Labour, Watson's boys defeated on the conference floor, Boris' boys defeated in the courts.
The sun is shining*, the birds are singing (somewhere probably), music sounds just that bit sweeter, I've got a game of football later.
Life is beautiful
*Clouds and rain technically but all I see is glorious sunshine.0 -
All eleven of them?HYUFD said:
The Supreme Court is now clearly a political body and more conservative judges need to be appointed by the Lord ChancellorNigelb said:
Why ?HYUFD said:Yes the diehard Remainers will enjoy their moment in the sun (though US style political appointments of Supreme Court justices are now inevitable)...
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Yes, Cummings is now ready to go for all out war against the diehard Remainer establishment at the next general election, this only wins Boris more Brexit Party voterskinabalu said:
I also do not see that this hurts Johnson. Perhaps it even helps. It feeds the "Me against the Remainer Establishment' narrative that (we are told) he is seeking to build.HYUFD said:Yes the diehard Remainers will enjoy their moment in the sun (though US style political appointments of Supreme Court justices are now inevitable) but in the long term Boris will benefit.
He and Cummings now have the narrative they want, they doing everything possible to deliver the will of the people against the diehard Remainers in Parliament and the judiciary who want to extend again and ultimately likely revoke. The more that narrative continues the more they squeeze the Brexit Party vote in the Tories favour while Remainers split between the LDs and Corbyn Labour.
Plus of course Boris will resign as PM and lead the Tories into opposition on a Brexit with a Deal or No Deal ticket to continue the battle with the diehard Remainers in opposition rather than stay PM and agree to extend0 -
One for Lord Falconer?HYUFD said:
The Supreme Court is now clearly a political body and more conservative judges need to be appointed by the Lord ChancellorNigelb said:
Why ?HYUFD said:Yes the diehard Remainers will enjoy their moment in the sun (though US style political appointments of Supreme Court justices are now inevitable)...
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Risible analogyByronic said:Prediction. This judgement doesn’t change much, practically, but it is transformative in terms of mood and emotion.
That is to say: the Remainers can now smell the frying bacon of victory. They are salivating. All they can think about is bacon. There was once a time when they might have compromised with the vegetarians in the house, who abhor bacon, and maybe settled for toast and jam, but no longer. That bacon is breakfast.
The Remainers will push on and Brexit will somehow be cancelled. Lord knows what that will do to the country, but it will likely not be good. The bacon might be poisoned.
Breakfast means breakfast0 -
And were wrong then and now. Being reliant on advice when you cannot ignore the advice means it's not your fault if people lied to youGardenwalker said:
I suggested at the time that the Queen had erred.OblitusSumMe said:Did the Queen err in agreeing to the prorogation?
I don't see what use she is if she won't stand up for the law herself when given bad advice by her ministers.
And had been seen to have erred.0 -
You cannot appeal decisions of national courts to the ECJ. National courts can only themselves refer questions of European law (of which this raised none) to the ECJ.madmacs said:Perhaps Boris could find a way of appealing to the European Court of Justice! Know it won't happen but it would really be fun.
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That's not the smell of any old bacon. It's the smell of Boris's Bacon.Byronic said:Prediction. This judgement doesn’t change much, practically, but it is transformative in terms of mood and emotion.
That is to say: the Remainers can now smell the frying bacon of victory. They are salivating. All they can think about is bacon. There was once a time when they might have compromised with the vegetarians in the house, who abhor bacon, and maybe settled for toast and jam, but no longer. That bacon is breakfast.
The Remainers will push on and Brexit will somehow be cancelled. Lord knows what that will do to the country, but it will likely not be good. The bacon might be poisoned.0 -
https://twitter.com/nigel_farage/status/1176436372045029376?s=21HYUFD said:
Yes, Cummings is now ready to go for all out war against the diehard Remainer establishment at the next general election, this only wins Boris more Brexit Party voterskinabalu said:
I also do not see that this hurts Johnson. Perhaps it even helps. It feeds the "Me against the Remainer Establishment' narrative that (we are told) he is seeking to build.HYUFD said:Yes the diehard Remainers will enjoy their moment in the sun (though US style political appointments of Supreme Court justices are now inevitable) but in the long term Boris will benefit.
He and Cummings now have the narrative they want, they doing everything possible to deliver the will of the people against the diehard Remainers in Parliament and the judiciary who want to extend again and ultimately likely revoke. The more that narrative continues the more they squeeze the Brexit Party vote in the Tories favour while Remainers split between the LDs and Corbyn Labour.
Plus of course Boris will resign as PM and lead the Tories into opposition on a Brexit with a Deal or No Deal ticket to continue the battle with the diehard Remainers in opposition rather than stay PM and agree to extend0 -
Always knew you were Lord falconer really.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Eh?HYUFD said:
The Supreme Court is now clearly a political body and more conservative judges need to be appointed by the Lord ChancellorNigelb said:
Why ?HYUFD said:Yes the diehard Remainers will enjoy their moment in the sun (though US style political appointments of Supreme Court justices are now inevitable)...
Even allowing the premise of your question, you're ok with political courts as long as they're in your favour?
Idiot
You are Judge Kavanagh and I claim my $10 compensation0 -
Another elegantly explained swing from you. Fantastic drama.Byronic said:Prediction. This judgement doesn’t change much, practically, but it is transformative in terms of mood and emotion.
That is to say: the Remainers can now smell the frying bacon of victory. They are salivating. All they can think about is bacon. There was once a time when they might have compromised with the vegetarians in the house, who abhor bacon, and maybe settled for toast and jam, but no longer. That bacon is breakfast.
The Remainers will push on and Brexit will somehow be cancelled. Lord knows what that will do to the country, but it will likely not be good. The bacon might be poisoned.0 -
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You have no proof that every member of the court does not vote conservative. It's very probable many of them do. Disagreement on the law does not indicate if they left or right.HYUFD said:
The Supreme Court is now clearly a political body and more conservative judges need to be appointed by the Lord ChancellorNigelb said:
Why ?HYUFD said:Yes the diehard Remainers will enjoy their moment in the sun (though US style political appointments of Supreme Court justices are now inevitable)...
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On the balance of probabilities, Boris probably didn't lie to the Queen.Nigelb said:
In theory... and would be fun to watch.Scrapheap_as_was said:All these tweets like bad al saying he lied to the queen - is that actionable?
He'd have to offer evidence of reasons he wasn't prepared to share with the Supreme Court, who were quietly scathing about his lack of evidence.
The SC were very careful about not saying he lied - so careful that they refrained from saying he didn't, as well.
On a balance of probabilities, it would be not unreasonable to conclude him a liar in this case.
Privy Council meetings are highly formal and stylised: more kabuki than Corrie. Johnson will not have needed to have given a reason (and in any case, didn't attend in person).
However, there's enough doubt from the evidence already available that he was being far from straight with his reasons and that while the specific claim might not be sustainable, that'd be an inaccurate detail within a wider truth.0 -
No sane conservative would have boosted Corbyn's chances like this.kle4 said:
You have no proof that every member of the court does not vote conservative. It's very probable many of them do. Disagreement on the law does not indicate if they left or right.HYUFD said:
The Supreme Court is now clearly a political body and more conservative judges need to be appointed by the Lord ChancellorNigelb said:
Why ?HYUFD said:Yes the diehard Remainers will enjoy their moment in the sun (though US style political appointments of Supreme Court justices are now inevitable)...
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Nonsense.Gardenwalker said:
I suggested at the time that the Queen had erred.OblitusSumMe said:Did the Queen err in agreeing to the prorogation?
I don't see what use she is if she won't stand up for the law herself when given bad advice by her ministers.
And had been seen to have erred.
"It is not suggested in these appeals that Her Majesty was other than obliged by constitutional convention to accept that [the PM's] advice." Para 30 of Supreme Court judgment.
No error whatsoever on the part of the Queen, and judges explicitly clear on that.0 -
This current court is now clearly left liberal and political in the way the Law Lords were not, political appointment of Supreme Court justices US style by the government of the day is now inevitable and necessarykle4 said:
You have no proof that every member of the court does not vote conservative. It's very probable many of them do. Disagreement on the law does not indicate if they left or right.HYUFD said:
The Supreme Court is now clearly a political body and more conservative judges need to be appointed by the Lord ChancellorNigelb said:
Why ?HYUFD said:Yes the diehard Remainers will enjoy their moment in the sun (though US style political appointments of Supreme Court justices are now inevitable)...
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No need to worry. This scenario (No. 56 variation A, sub-path 3(c) i - DomRes) has been wargamed already and was planned for.nico67 said:Cummings will be gone by the morning .
Bozo needs to sacrifice his puppet master to have any chance of remaining PM.
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You really do not understand how courts work, do you?blueblue said:
No sane conservative would have boosted Corbyn's chances like this.kle4 said:
You have no proof that every member of the court does not vote conservative. It's very probable many of them do. Disagreement on the law does not indicate if they left or right.HYUFD said:
The Supreme Court is now clearly a political body and more conservative judges need to be appointed by the Lord ChancellorNigelb said:
Why ?HYUFD said:Yes the diehard Remainers will enjoy their moment in the sun (though US style political appointments of Supreme Court justices are now inevitable)...
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To get a majority it’s not sufficient to unite Leavers. May did that in 2017 and still failed.HYUFD said:0 -
Matthew Goodwin is a terrible predictor of events.HYUFD said:
https://twitter.com/goodwinmj/status/868562780990959621?s=21
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/11/politics-professor-eats-book-live-air-promising-eat-words-labour/0 -
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Farage would say that anyway he wants to be PM rather than Boris and if Boris capitulated and extended he could bewilliamglenn said:
https://twitter.com/nigel_farage/status/1176436372045029376?s=21HYUFD said:
Yes, Cummings is now ready to go for all out war against the diehard Remainer establishment at the next general election, this only wins Boris more Brexit Party voterskinabalu said:
I also do not see that this hurts Johnson. Perhaps it even helps. It feeds the "Me against the Remainer Establishment' narrative that (we are told) he is seeking to build.HYUFD said:Yes the diehard Remainers will enjoy their moment in the sun (though US style political appointments of Supreme Court justices are now inevitable) but in the long term Boris will benefit.
He and Cummings now have the narrative they want, they doing everything possible to deliver the will of the people against the diehard Remainers in Parliament and the judiciary who want to extend again and ultimately likely revoke. The more that narrative continues the more they squeeze the Brexit Party vote in the Tories favour while Remainers split between the LDs and Corbyn Labour.
Plus of course Boris will resign as PM and lead the Tories into opposition on a Brexit with a Deal or No Deal ticket to continue the battle with the diehard Remainers in opposition rather than stay PM and agree to extend0 -
Fair enough, but I'll repeat the question I posed to @isam on the previous thread, namely: what form of action do you see Boris actually *taking* to defeat Parliament/Courts/lawyers etc?blueblue said:"Breaking the Law", FFS! It's hardly like punching someone in the street, where the illegality is obvious beforehand. Instead, it took 3 court cases - with the English court, significantly from a political perspective, declining to intervene in the government's decision - before the action was declared illegal retrospectively.
I think Boris will take an inevitable hit in the polls for "losing", but the man in the street will also not fail to notice how Parliament, the Speaker, and now the Courts are blatantly stacked against what they voted for...
Everybody is complaining that the cat is annoying, but nobody is formulating a plan to bell it.0 -
So what would they have had to do to be unpolitical - vote the other way? Reminds me of objectors to a planning application or similar who claim the panel / committee haven't listened to them when they come to the opposite conclusion. total nonsense, they have just weighed up the pros and cons and found the other side stronger on balance, but when you are on one side it's a simple for or against.HYUFD said:
This current court is now clearly left liberal and political in the way the Law Lords were not, political appointment of Supreme Court justices US style by the government of the day is now inevitable and necessarykle4 said:
You have no proof that every member of the court does not vote conservative. It's very probable many of them do. Disagreement on the law does not indicate if they left or right.HYUFD said:
The Supreme Court is now clearly a political body and more conservative judges need to be appointed by the Lord ChancellorNigelb said:
Why ?HYUFD said:Yes the diehard Remainers will enjoy their moment in the sun (though US style political appointments of Supreme Court justices are now inevitable)...
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Your premise is that we will have a general election before Brexit which means an extension.HYUFD said:
Farage would say that anyway he wants to be PM rather than Boris and if Boris capitulated and extended he could bewilliamglenn said:
https://twitter.com/nigel_farage/status/1176436372045029376?s=21HYUFD said:
Yes, Cummings is now ready to go for all out war against the diehard Remainer establishment at the next general election, this only wins Boris more Brexit Party voterskinabalu said:
I also do not see that this hurts Johnson. Perhaps it even helps. It feeds the "Me against the Remainer Establishment' narrative that (we are told) he is seeking to build.HYUFD said:Yes the diehard Remainers will enjoy their moment in the sun (though US style political appointments of Supreme Court justices are now inevitable) but in the long term Boris will benefit.
He and Cummings now have the narrative they want, they doing everything possible to deliver the will of the people against the diehard Remainers in Parliament and the judiciary who want to extend again and ultimately likely revoke. The more that narrative continues the more they squeeze the Brexit Party vote in the Tories favour while Remainers split between the LDs and Corbyn Labour.
Plus of course Boris will resign as PM and lead the Tories into opposition on a Brexit with a Deal or No Deal ticket to continue the battle with the diehard Remainers in opposition rather than stay PM and agree to extend0 -
Assuming the EU grant one.david_herdson said:
No - the Act that parliament passed before the False Prorogation means that the PM will almost certainly now have to request an A50 extension to Jan 2020 and has no power to reject it if offered.IanB2 said:From the lead: ”it’s now surely highly likely that we will have another general election before the A50 period expires ”
Isn’t this unlikely, and almost impossible, because of time? Unless David is saying an election will emerge from the next few days?
The 31 October deadline is, for practical purposes, dead.
And an extension to end of January makes zero sense. If they will grant one they’ll grant sufficient time for a GE or referendum resolution.0 -
I fundamentally disagree, but you are entitled to that opinion.HYUFD said:
The Supreme Court is now clearly a political body and more conservative judges need to be appointed by the Lord ChancellorNigelb said:
Why ?HYUFD said:Yes the diehard Remainers will enjoy their moment in the sun (though US style political appointments of Supreme Court justices are now inevitable)...
But please then answer the question I asked down thread about what is wrong about the new rule they set for prorogation, and what you would prefer in its place.0 -
Someone has to carry the can, and only Cummings or Johnson himself will fit the bill.HYUFD said:
Farage would say that anyway he wants to be PM rather than Boris and if Boris capitulated and extended he could bewilliamglenn said:
https://twitter.com/nigel_farage/status/1176436372045029376?s=21HYUFD said:
Yes, Cummings is now ready to go for all out war against the diehard Remainer establishment at the next general election, this only wins Boris more Brexit Party voterskinabalu said:
I also do not see that this hurts Johnson. Perhaps it even helps. It feeds the "Me against the Remainer Establishment' narrative that (we are told) he is seeking to build.HYUFD said:Yes the diehard Remainers will enjoy their moment in the sun (though US style political appointments of Supreme Court justices are now inevitable) but in the long term Boris will benefit.
He and Cummings now have the narrative they want, they doing everything possible to deliver the will of the people against the diehard Remainers in Parliament and the judiciary who want to extend again and ultimately likely revoke. The more that narrative continues the more they squeeze the Brexit Party vote in the Tories favour while Remainers split between the LDs and Corbyn Labour.
Plus of course Boris will resign as PM and lead the Tories into opposition on a Brexit with a Deal or No Deal ticket to continue the battle with the diehard Remainers in opposition rather than stay PM and agree to extend
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It will be interesting to see whether Conservative party conference now gets cancelled. I suppose one way around would be to have a short prorogation before a Queen's Speech, timed to coincide with the conference.0
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In two short years, you have transmogrified from mannerly Tory wet moderate to full-blown hard-right ‘reds under the bed’ Trumptonite.HYUFD said:
This current court is now clearly left liberal and political in the way the Law Lords were not, political appointment of Supreme Court justices US style by the government of the day is now inevitable and necessarykle4 said:
You have no proof that every member of the court does not vote conservative. It's very probable many of them do. Disagreement on the law does not indicate if they left or right.HYUFD said:
The Supreme Court is now clearly a political body and more conservative judges need to be appointed by the Lord ChancellorNigelb said:
Why ?HYUFD said:Yes the diehard Remainers will enjoy their moment in the sun (though US style political appointments of Supreme Court justices are now inevitable)...
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For those attacking the supreme court justices and today's judgement:
How did they get it wrong, in law?
IANAL, and would be fascinated to know. As I said (just) before the judgement was revealed, it seemed to this layman to have fairly logical connections from the background to its conclusion. I know that's not everything in the law, but it would be good to know.
Or, as IANAL, perhaps I've misunderstood things.0 -
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https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1176450811968327680?s=20williamglenn said:
To get a majority it’s not sufficient to unite Leavers. May did that in 2017 and still failed.HYUFD said:0 -
In the middle of all this hullaballoo the Parliament is still down to elect a new speaker so theyll be lobbying and skulldugging for a fair part of the next few weeks as well.0
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The next prorogation has to be for 5 days, or any court will immediately strike it down and rule that Parliament isn't prorogued.
But the Gov't has got 5 days of prorogation left I think.0 -
Ok. But can Boris actually arrange an election before October 31st? Because if he doesn't, and we remain in the EU past October 31st, he is dead politically.HYUFD said:
Yes, Cummings is now ready to go for all out war against the diehard Remainer establishment at the next general election, this only wins Boris more Brexit Party voterskinabalu said:
I also do not see that this hurts Johnson. Perhaps it even helps. It feeds the "Me against the Remainer Establishment' narrative that (we are told) he is seeking to build.HYUFD said:Yes the diehard Remainers will enjoy their moment in the sun (though US style political appointments of Supreme Court justices are now inevitable) but in the long term Boris will benefit.
He and Cummings now have the narrative they want, they doing everything possible to deliver the will of the people against the diehard Remainers in Parliament and the judiciary who want to extend again and ultimately likely revoke. The more that narrative continues the more they squeeze the Brexit Party vote in the Tories favour while Remainers split between the LDs and Corbyn Labour.
Plus of course Boris will resign as PM and lead the Tories into opposition on a Brexit with a Deal or No Deal ticket to continue the battle with the diehard Remainers in opposition rather than stay PM and agree to extend0 -
Tehcnically, it can, just.PeterMannion said:
QuiteNorthofStoke said:The challenge facing Corbyn is triggering a VOC vote without setting in chain an early GE.
Given the 14 day window for another government to form, followed by a 4/5 week campaign, the GE can't be until November now, can it?
Can it?
You only need the 14-day window after a VoNC. A dissolution motion could move straight to the election period. If that were tabled today, the election could be held on Oct 31.0 -
Ever heard of the US Supreme Court?eristdoof said:
You really do not understand how courts work, do you?blueblue said:
No sane conservative would have boosted Corbyn's chances like this.kle4 said:
You have no proof that every member of the court does not vote conservative. It's very probable many of them do. Disagreement on the law does not indicate if they left or right.HYUFD said:
The Supreme Court is now clearly a political body and more conservative judges need to be appointed by the Lord ChancellorNigelb said:
Why ?HYUFD said:Yes the diehard Remainers will enjoy their moment in the sun (though US style political appointments of Supreme Court justices are now inevitable)...
But because of our tradition of "apolitical" judges, these ones have essentially had free reign to torpedo the Government over an otherwise inconsequential matter.
Judges should not be allowed to render decisions of such colossal political effect.0 -
He is going to VONC himself and try and force an election0
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If the government resigns tonight or tomorrow morning and leaves Parliament/Speaker/Courts to try and govern the country there's no reason they can't hold their conference?GarethoftheVale2 said:It will be interesting to see whether Conservative party conference now gets cancelled. I suppose one way around would be to have a short prorogation before a Queen's Speech, timed to coincide with the conference.
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Oh, don't panic everyone. Eleven of the most senior judges in the land (including a couple who found against Miller in a dissenting judgment, so can't for one second be accused of Remain bias) have unanimously roasted the Government and PM personally. But Britain's preeminent judicial scholar, B Johnson Esq., has opined that they are wrong, so that settles it.dr_spyn said:Boris fires up a JCB.
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/11764694195198197820 -
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As usual you have not addressed the point. I agree it is likely inevitable but you have no proof of their political leanings other than you dont like the decision.HYUFD said:
This current court is now clearly left liberal and political in the way the Law Lords were not, political appointment of Supreme Court justices US style by the government of the day is now inevitable and necessarykle4 said:
You have no proof that every member of the court does not vote conservative. It's very probable many of them do. Disagreement on the law does not indicate if they left or right.HYUFD said:
The Supreme Court is now clearly a political body and more conservative judges need to be appointed by the Lord ChancellorNigelb said:
Why ?HYUFD said:Yes the diehard Remainers will enjoy their moment in the sun (though US style political appointments of Supreme Court justices are now inevitable)...
By your logic if theyd found in favour of the government they would be clearly right leaning conservatives and all 11 should be replaced. They cannot win.
And Since I gave reasons why I could see and accept the government winning you cannot claim that my view is because I like the decision.0 -
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1176471007927967744 how does johnson move out from EU.0
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I'm finding it hard to keep count of the number of Comical Ali lookalikes on PB .....TheJezziah said:Brilliant couple of days for Labour, Watson's boys defeated on the conference floor, Boris' boys defeated in the courts.
The sun is shining*, the birds are singing (somewhere probably), music sounds just that bit sweeter, I've got a game of football later.
Life is beautiful
*Clouds and rain technically but all I see is glorious sunshine.
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There are none so blind as those who will not see.HYUFD said:
This current court is now clearly left liberal and political in the way the Law Lords were not, political appointment of Supreme Court justices US style by the government of the day is now inevitable and necessarykle4 said:
You have no proof that every member of the court does not vote conservative. It's very probable many of them do. Disagreement on the law does not indicate if they left or right.HYUFD said:
The Supreme Court is now clearly a political body and more conservative judges need to be appointed by the Lord ChancellorNigelb said:
Why ?HYUFD said:Yes the diehard Remainers will enjoy their moment in the sun (though US style political appointments of Supreme Court justices are now inevitable)...
This is not about the Supreme Court it is about a dangerous, reckless PM who simply breaks or ignores all the rules he does not approve of. If you can not see that, then you can not understand anything.1 -
Only if the EU accept the case for an extension, surely? Extension until end of Jan 2020 doesn't give enough time for a referendum so it would have to be longer (probably end of March).david_herdson said:
No - the Act that parliament passed before the False Prorogation means that the PM will almost certainly now have to request an A50 extension to Jan 2020 and has no power to reject it if offered.IanB2 said:From the lead: ”it’s now surely highly likely that we will have another general election before the A50 period expires ”
Isn’t this unlikely, and almost impossible, because of time? Unless David is saying an election will emerge from the next few days?
The 31 October deadline is, for practical purposes, dead.0 -
Having read the judgment (I agree with others’ comments on this thread that it’s a fantastic clear piece of writing) I really struggle to see any steps in the reasoning that can be categorised as left-liberal or political. Of course you can always argue that a ruling that a politician’s actions are illegal is political by virtue of thwarting those actions, but if you follow that to its logical conclusion then you would conclude that politicians should be free to break any law they choose unfettered by the courts - that seems a risky place to end up.HYUFD said:
This current court is now clearly left liberal and political in the way the Law Lords were not, political appointment of Supreme Court justices US style by the government of the day is now inevitable and necessarykle4 said:
You have no proof that every member of the court does not vote conservative. It's very probable many of them do. Disagreement on the law does not indicate if they left or right.HYUFD said:
The Supreme Court is now clearly a political body and more conservative judges need to be appointed by the Lord ChancellorNigelb said:
Why ?HYUFD said:Yes the diehard Remainers will enjoy their moment in the sun (though US style political appointments of Supreme Court justices are now inevitable)...
Which parts of the judgment did you feel showed the left, liberal and political tendencies and how would a ‘conservative’ justice have ruled differently on those points?0 -
