HYFUD is the one with the connections but I’m scratching my head at the idea Boris will resign prior to 31 Oct.
There’s no guarantee at all this would trigger an election with advantageous timing to him, it could easily lead to a second referendum instead and he would lose the polling benefit of incumbency, potentially giving it to the supposed enemy of the state Corbyn. Far better to comply with the Benn Law if that turns out to be the only alternative.
Keep calm and carry on. All today does is give the Commons a few more days to grandstand. They already have their No To No Deal law on the books.
Exactly. Boris should hold on, and send in the extension amidst a massive press conference, saying that he is doing this only to obey the law that the Remainer Parliament forced on him.
Then take a copy, rip it up live on air, and say "This is what'll I'll do to the extension if you vote for me in the General Election".
Job done!
Actually I think HYFUD is right because it is the way he gets what he wants, which is an election. He resigns as PM, but not as leader of the Conservative Party. Possibly he nominates Raab safe in the knowledge it will never through but takes up a bit more time. But, at some point, Corbyn has to be invited to form a Government - forget all this nonsense about a GNU under Ken Clarke, Labour won't go with it, nor should it.
What next? Voting for Corbyn puts the Lib Dems in an awful position. It sees the Tories absolutely hammer them in Tory Remain seats in the SE as backers of Corbyn and his redistributive policies. And, if the SNP join the LDs in backing Corbyn, then the Tories can also press home in Scotland that the only safe party for Unionists to vote for is the Conservative party.
However, if the LDs do not vote for him, then it is unlikely he has the numbers given ex-Labour MPs etc (not to mention the 21 Conservatives). So we go to an election.
If BJ is smart (big question), he resigns as PM
Even more effective would be to force the opposition to VONC.
Of course, this could be a cunning plan by Cummings and BoJo coming to fruition.
Infamy, infamy, they've all got it in for you voters. The MPs lied in their manifesto commitment to implement Brexit. They're now doing everything to maintain parliamentary will and not the voters' will. That's why they don't want a GE. The GE will be a battle between the voters and rogue MPs.
Don't forget the polling showed that most voters assumed the MPs were sent to Parliament to enact their views, not their own.
Absolutely. But go beyond October 31st and I don't see voters let alone TBP forgiving Boris for not having left. He is even at it today. So anything from November 1st sees him out of the game imo. It can be the most cunning plan of CummingDom but if he blows his deadline he's accepted that he has died.
That doesn't make sense to me. Who gets the blame for not meeting the deadline will be the critical issue. If BJ is seen as battling to leave but stymied by remainers he will keep that part of the electorate.
The most logical explanation for what BJ and Cummings is doing at the moment is game theory. It would explain a fair few of their moves. If that is the case, then expect another bold move.
Absolutely. But go beyond October 31st and I don't see voters let alone TBP forgiving Boris for not having left. He is even at it today. So anything from November 1st sees him out of the game imo. It can be the most cunning plan of CummingDom but if he blows his deadline he's accepted that he has died.
I would like to agree with you but I don't. I agree with those who think this could play well for Johnson. Not saying this is part of some elaborate and stupendously clever and devious masterplan - as if - but it does potentially feed the 'Boris vs Remainer Establishment' narrative upon which, if the cards fall right, he can win a 'Brexit' general election this year or early next.
Yes if you drill down to details Brexit is impossibly complex, confusing and hard to call. Again a good analogy is with a large war. If you focused on all the small human actions that make up a war, the individual choices of, and decisions by, soldiers, citizens, politicians, etc, then the war would appear monumentally messy. The data would overwhelm.
So instead you have to step back and intuit the bigger picture. What does it feel like, out there? And that says Remain is winning, IMHO
The only caveat I’d add is this presumes Dom and Boris don’t have a brilliant and cunning plan, which they will execute 4 minutes before Halloween. But I’m reaching the conclusion they have no such plan. They’re winging it.
First off I am not at all sure I want to remain because it depends how it is delivered. At this stage and since the referendum I have preferred and would prefer a sensible deal. Worse than the status quo ante but that's what the UK voted for. Remain can only come about, legitimately imo, with a second referendum but I don't think we're going to get to one of those without a Labour victory and even then a halfway coherent "what part of leave didn't you understand/people vs the elite" narrative means a remain victory is by no means certain.
I think the next GE will return a Cons hung parliament if not a Cons majority.
Any self respecting manager would resign after an 11-0 defeat.
Has Jester resigned yet?
What's the hurry? We're still waiting for Corbyn to resign after overwhelmingly losing a vote of no confidence amongst his own MPs, three years ago.
To be fair, Jezza has not found himself comprising HM with an unlawful act. An honourable resignation should be swift.
He doesn't believe HM should be Queen and would abolish the mnonarchy tomorrow if he could. That's worse than miscalculating a prorogation!
It really isn't. Bozza has done more than believe something, his government quite deliberately did something unlawful that has compromised HM. If he had any honour he would go.
He is hardly irreplaceable. The Tories could put it down to Summer madness, find a new leader and get on with it.
He is sadly irreplaceable. Only a rightwing populist can trump (!) Corbyn's left populism.
HYFUD is the one with the connections but I’m scratching my head at the idea Boris will resign prior to 31 Oct.
There’s no guarantee at all this would trigger an election with advantageous timing to him, it could easily lead to a second referendum instead and he would lose the polling benefit of incumbency, potentially giving it to the supposed enemy of the state Corbyn. Far better to comply with the Benn Law if that turns out to be the only alternative.
Keep calm and carry on. All today does is give the Commons a few more days to grandstand. They already have their No To No Deal law on the books.
Exactly. Boris should hold on, and send in the extension amidst a massive press conference, saying that he is doing this only to obey the law that the Remainer Parliament forced on him.
Then take a copy, rip it up live on air, and say "This is what'll I'll do to the extension if you vote for me in the General Election".
Job done!
Actually I think HYFUD is right because it is the way he gets what he wants, which is an election. He resigns as PM, but not as leader of the Conservative Party. Possibly he nominates Raab safe in the knowledge it will never through but takes up a bit more time. But, at some point, Corbyn has to be invited to form a Government - forget all this nonsense about a GNU under Ken Clarke, Labour won't go with it, nor should it.
What next? Voting for Corbyn puts the Lib Dems in an awful position. It sees the Tories absolutely hammer them in Tory Remain seats in the SE as backers of Corbyn and his redistributive policies. And, if the SNP join the LDs in backing Corbyn, then the Tories can also press home in Scotland that the only safe party for Unionists to vote for is the Conservative party.
However, if the LDs do not vote for him, then it is unlikely he has the numbers given ex-Labour MPs etc (not to mention the 21 Conservatives). So we go to an election.
If BJ is smart (big question), he resigns as PM
He never gets back in (as leader of the Cons, or PM) if he resigns.
Of course, this could be a cunning plan by Cummings and BoJo coming to fruition.
Infamy, infamy, they've all got it in for you voters. The MPs lied in their manifesto commitment to implement Brexit. They're now doing everything to maintain parliamentary will and not the voters' will. That's why they don't want a GE. The GE will be a battle between the voters and rogue MPs.
Don't forget the polling showed that most voters assumed the MPs were sent to Parliament to enact their views, not their own.
Absolutely. But go beyond October 31st and I don't see voters let alone TBP forgiving Boris for not having left. He is even at it today. So anything from November 1st sees him out of the game imo. It can be the most cunning plan of CummingDom but if he blows his deadline he's accepted that he has died.
That doesn't make sense to me. Who gets the blame for not meeting the deadline will be the critical issue. If BJ is seen as battling to leave but stymied by remainers he will keep that part of the electorate.
Hmmm....promising something you couldn't deliver? 'But others stopped me, Guv!'
The opposition aren't VONCing at the moment for a perceived political advantage in delaying the move till later. That's entirely their right but can we not have bleatings about Johnson not being the correct PM as of now.
Of course, this could be a cunning plan by Cummings and BoJo coming to fruition.
Infamy, infamy, they've all got it in for you voters. The MPs lied in their manifesto commitment to implement Brexit. They're now doing everything to maintain parliamentary will and not the voters' will. That's why they don't want a GE. The GE will be a battle between the voters and rogue MPs.
Don't forget the polling showed that most voters assumed the MPs were sent to Parliament to enact their views, not their own.
Absolutely. But go beyond October 31st and I don't see voters let alone TBP forgiving Boris for not having left. He is even at it today. So anything from November 1st sees him out of the game imo. It can be the most cunning plan of CummingDom but if he blows his deadline he's accepted that he has died.
That doesn't make sense to me. Who gets the blame for not meeting the deadline will be the critical issue. If BJ is seen as battling to leave but stymied by remainers he will keep that part of the electorate.
Hmmm....promising something you couldn't deliver? 'But others stopped me, Guv!'
Not a great selling pitch.
The public aren’t stupid. They can count the numbers of MPs.
The opposition aren't VONCing at the moment for a perceived political advantage in delaying the move till later. That's entirely their right but can we not have bleatings about Johnson not being the correct PM as of now.
Agreed. And no talk of unelected or mandate. He can be removed as soon as they like.
Of course, this could be a cunning plan by Cummings and BoJo coming to fruition.
Infamy, infamy, they've all got it in for you voters. The MPs lied in their manifesto commitment to implement Brexit. They're now doing everything to maintain parliamentary will and not the voters' will. That's why they don't want a GE. The GE will be a battle between the voters and rogue MPs.
Don't forget the polling showed that most voters assumed the MPs were sent to Parliament to enact their views, not their own.
Absolutely. But go beyond October 31st and I don't see voters let alone TBP forgiving Boris for not having left. He is even at it today. So anything from November 1st sees him out of the game imo. It can be the most cunning plan of CummingDom but if he blows his deadline he's accepted that he has died.
That doesn't make sense to me. Who gets the blame for not meeting the deadline will be the critical issue. If BJ is seen as battling to leave but stymied by remainers he will keep that part of the electorate.
Any self respecting manager would resign after an 11-0 defeat.
Has Jester resigned yet?
What's the hurry? We're still waiting for Corbyn to resign after overwhelmingly losing a vote of no confidence amongst his own MPs, three years ago.
He put himself forward and was returned with an increased majority.
Ohhh Jerrreeemmmmy Coòoorrrrbyn
No he wasn't.
Corbyn won 59.5% of the vote in a 4-way contest in 2015. He won 61.8% against Owen Smith in 2016.
Had the votes been redistributed down to two candidates, to enable a like-for-like comparison, Corbyn would almost certainly have won a bigger vote share in 2015.
As it was, his majority in both votes and vote share - as usually defined: first minus second - fell, from 40.5% to 23.6%, and from 171k to 120k votes.
Any self respecting manager would resign after an 11-0 defeat.
Has Jester resigned yet?
What's the hurry? We're still waiting for Corbyn to resign after overwhelmingly losing a vote of no confidence amongst his own MPs, three years ago.
To be fair, Jezza has not found himself comprising HM with an unlawful act. An honourable resignation should be swift.
He doesn't believe HM should be Queen and would abolish the mnonarchy tomorrow if he could. That's worse than miscalculating a prorogation!
It really isn't. Bozza has done more than believe something, his government quite deliberately did something unlawful that has compromised HM. If he had any honour he would go.
He is hardly irreplaceable. The Tories could put it down to Summer madness, find a new leader and get on with it.
He is sadly irreplaceable. Only a rightwing populist can trump (!) Corbyn's left populism.
I dont like him but if they had someone else to appeal to their base as well theyd have tried them. They dont.
Of course, this could be a cunning plan by Cummings and BoJo coming to fruition.
Infamy, infamy, they've all got it in for you voters. The MPs lied in their manifesto commitment to implement Brexit. They're now doing everything to maintain parliamentary will and not the voters' will. That's why they don't want a GE. The GE will be a battle between the voters and rogue MPs.
Don't forget the polling showed that most voters assumed the MPs were sent to Parliament to enact their views, not their own.
Absolutely. But go beyond October 31st and I don't see voters let alone TBP forgiving Boris for not having left. He is even at it today. So anything from November 1st sees him out of the game imo. It can be the most cunning plan of CummingDom but if he blows his deadline he's accepted that he has died.
That doesn't make sense to me. Who gets the blame for not meeting the deadline will be the critical issue. If BJ is seen as battling to leave but stymied by remainers he will keep that part of the electorate.
Hmmm....promising something you couldn't deliver? 'But others stopped me, Guv!'
Not a great selling pitch.
The public aren’t stupid. They can count the numbers of MPs.
Presumably he can too, yet still promised. Hmmmm......Do or die?
Of course, this could be a cunning plan by Cummings and BoJo coming to fruition.
Infamy, infamy, they've all got it in for you voters. The MPs lied in their manifesto commitment to implement Brexit. They're now doing everything to maintain parliamentary will and not the voters' will. That's why they don't want a GE. The GE will be a battle between the voters and rogue MPs.
Don't forget the polling showed that most voters assumed the MPs were sent to Parliament to enact their views, not their own.
Absolutely. But go beyond October 31st and I don't see voters let alone TBP forgiving Boris for not having left. He is even at it today. So anything from November 1st sees him out of the game imo. It can be the most cunning plan of CummingDom but if he blows his deadline he's accepted that he has died.
That doesn't make sense to me. Who gets the blame for not meeting the deadline will be the critical issue. If BJ is seen as battling to leave but stymied by remainers he will keep that part of the electorate.
The most logical explanation for what BJ and Cummings is doing at the moment is game theory. It would explain a fair few of their moves. If that is the case, then expect another bold move.
I still think the government might resign tomorrow at 11am and throw the gauntlet down to Parliament/Bercow/Courts to try to govern the country which is clearly what they have been trying to do.
Of course, this could be a cunning plan by Cummings and BoJo coming to fruition.
Infamy, infamy, they've all got it in for you voters. The MPs lied in their manifesto commitment to implement Brexit. They're now doing everything to maintain parliamentary will and not the voters' will. That's why they don't want a GE. The GE will be a battle between the voters and rogue MPs.
Don't forget the polling showed that most voters assumed the MPs were sent to Parliament to enact their views, not their own.
Absolutely. But go beyond October 31st and I don't see voters let alone TBP forgiving Boris for not having left. He is even at it today. So anything from November 1st sees him out of the game imo. It can be the most cunning plan of CummingDom but if he blows his deadline he's accepted that he has died.
As you state if Boris asks for an extension he is finished with the leaver electorate. This is why he can not and will not ask for one. I do not believe he will break the law but I do not see what else he will do. A deal with the EU will not save him because it will not get through Parliament.
The tory conference if it goes ahead will be baying for blood of the remainiacs, not literally one Hope's
Yes, I imagine the eurosceptic rhetoric there won't be for the faint-hearted - will make Portillo's 'Who Dares Wins' sound positively Heathite.
Not all of them are rabid ERGers. Lots of them joined for no other reason than to find a partner when they were young. Nice Archers listening country folk. Comletely embarrassed by the antics of their leader
The opposition aren't VONCing at the moment for a perceived political advantage in delaying the move till later. That's entirely their right but can we not have bleatings about Johnson not being the correct PM as of now.
But Pulpy, he was never the correct PM. Everyone knew what he was like. No excuses for it.
Of course, this could be a cunning plan by Cummings and BoJo coming to fruition.
Infamy, infamy, they've all got it in for you voters. The MPs lied in their manifesto commitment to implement Brexit. They're now doing everything to maintain parliamentary will and not the voters' will. That's why they don't want a GE. The GE will be a battle between the voters and rogue MPs.
Don't forget the polling showed that most voters assumed the MPs were sent to Parliament to enact their views, not their own.
Absolutely. But go beyond October 31st and I don't see voters let alone TBP forgiving Boris for not having left. He is even at it today. So anything from November 1st sees him out of the game imo. It can be the most cunning plan of CummingDom but if he blows his deadline he's accepted that he has died.
That doesn't make sense to me. Who gets the blame for not meeting the deadline will be the critical issue. If BJ is seen as battling to leave but stymied by remainers he will keep that part of the electorate.
Hmmm....promising something you couldn't deliver? 'But others stopped me, Guv!'
Not a great selling pitch.
The public aren’t stupid. They can count the numbers of MPs.
Presumably he can too, yet still promised. Hmmmm......Do or die?
Which ditch you wanna die in?
That’s rather the point. He’ll be seen to have (metaphorically) died doing everything he can to secure Brexit. He then gets an election to say “give me the numbers and chuck out the other lot”. He’s gaining the chance to campaign as if her were in opposition but using the bully pulpit of the PM.
Of course, this could be a cunning plan by Cummings and BoJo coming to fruition.
Infamy, infamy, they've all got it in for you voters. The MPs lied in their manifesto commitment to implement Brexit. They're now doing everything to maintain parliamentary will and not the voters' will. That's why they don't want a GE. The GE will be a battle between the voters and rogue MPs.
Don't forget the polling showed that most voters assumed the MPs were sent to Parliament to enact their views, not their own.
Absolutely. But go beyond October 31st and I don't see voters let alone TBP forgiving Boris for not having left. He is even at it today. So anything from November 1st sees him out of the game imo. It can be the most cunning plan of CummingDom but if he blows his deadline he's accepted that he has died.
That doesn't make sense to me. Who gets the blame for not meeting the deadline will be the critical issue. If BJ is seen as battling to leave but stymied by remainers he will keep that part of the electorate.
The most logical explanation for what BJ and Cummings is doing at the moment is game theory. It would explain a fair few of their moves. If that is the case, then expect another bold move.
I still think the government might resign tomorrow at 11am and throw the gauntlet down to Parliament/Bercow/Courts to try to govern the country which is clearly what they have been trying to do.
I'm not sure that's the wisest option - we might have joined the Euro by lunchtime!
Of course, this could be a cunning plan by Cummings and BoJo coming to fruition.
Infamy, infamy, they've all got it in for you voters. The MPs lied in their manifesto commitment to implement Brexit. They're now doing everything to maintain parliamentary will and not the voters' will. That's why they don't want a GE. The GE will be a battle between the voters and rogue MPs.
Don't forget the polling showed that most voters assumed the MPs were sent to Parliament to enact their views, not their own.
Absolutely. But go beyond October 31st and I don't see voters let alone TBP forgiving Boris for not having left. He is even at it today. So anything from November 1st sees him out of the game imo. It can be the most cunning plan of CummingDom but if he blows his deadline he's accepted that he has died.
That doesn't make sense to me. Who gets the blame for not meeting the deadline will be the critical issue. If BJ is seen as battling to leave but stymied by remainers he will keep that part of the electorate.
The most logical explanation for what BJ and Cummings is doing at the moment is game theory. It would explain a fair few of their moves. If that is the case, then expect another bold move.
I still think the government might resign tomorrow at 11am and throw the gauntlet down to Parliament/Bercow/Courts to try to govern the country which is clearly what they have been trying to do.
Would provide a unique backdrop for the party conference so I don't quite see that myself. Better I suggest to be VONC'd.
The opposition aren't VONCing at the moment for a perceived political advantage in delaying the move till later. That's entirely their right but can we not have bleatings about Johnson not being the correct PM as of now.
But Pulpy, he was never the correct PM. Everyone knew what he was like. No excuses for it.
Any self respecting manager would resign after an 11-0 defeat.
Has Jester resigned yet?
What's the hurry? We're still waiting for Corbyn to resign after overwhelmingly losing a vote of no confidence amongst his own MPs, three years ago.
To be fair, Jezza has not found himself comprising HM with an unlawful act. An honourable resignation should be swift.
He doesn't believe HM should be Queen and would abolish the mnonarchy tomorrow if he could. That's worse than miscalculating a prorogation!
It really isn't. Bozza has done more than believe something, his government quite deliberately did something unlawful that has compromised HM. If he had any honour he would go.
He is hardly irreplaceable. The Tories could put it down to Summer madness, find a new leader and get on with it.
Deliberately or inadvertantly?
One would need to see the legal advice. Cabinet asked for it. It was withheld.
Of course, this could be a cunning plan by Cummings and BoJo coming to fruition.
Infamy, infamy, they've all got it in for you voters. The MPs lied in their manifesto commitment to implement Brexit. They're now doing everything to maintain parliamentary will and not the voters' will. That's why they don't want a GE. The GE will be a battle between the voters and rogue MPs.
Don't forget the polling showed that most voters assumed the MPs were sent to Parliament to enact their views, not their own.
Absolutely. But go beyond October 31st and I don't see voters let alone TBP forgiving Boris for not having left. He is even at it today. So anything from November 1st sees him out of the game imo. It can be the most cunning plan of CummingDom but if he blows his deadline he's accepted that he has died.
As you state if Boris asks for an extension he is finished with the leaver electorate. This is why he can not and will not ask for one. I do not believe he will break the law but I do not see what else he will do. A deal with the EU will not save him because it will not get through Parliament.
Well of course that is the question. If he brings a deal what leverage does he have with each constituency? He is ahead of the polls so he is not worried about a GE so he can't say defeat this and get Corbyn to the Cons. Lab meanwhile are like pigs in shit. Boris has been prevented by law from leaving with no deal so they can sit pretty, vote against everything he brings and then wait to see what's fallen where.
As you say: "I do not believe he will break the law but I do not see what else he will do" - it sums up entirely the conundrum. And presumably if he does (try to) break the law then parliament will take control and send the letter itself?
Robert will kick himself when he reads this back and spots the typo.
What he meant to say is, "I take responsibility, as Lord Chancellor, for incorrectly advising the PM on the limitations of the prerogative power to prorogue Parliament. On such a crucial question and noting the damning and unanimous nature of the judgement, I am therefore resigning with immediate effect."
Why is it a resigning matter? It was tested in the Courts, much as say tax law is on a regular basis and a judgement made. The Government will be complying with that judgement. Move on.
Things do indeed go wrong in Government departments, in companies, in schools and so on all the time.
But this isn't VAT in Jaffa Cakes for goodness sake - some kind of under the radar thing delegated to juniors at HMRC. This was a huge call taken at the very top level. It was wrong (very wrong - unanimously and damningly rejected). If you get the big ones so wrong, you go. That's ministerial responsibility, executive responsibility in a business, and so on.
Although it was ultimately found unlawful, two Courts of Appeal had found otherwise, so it seems unfair to argue that the Lord Chancellor had given nonsensical advice.
I reckon there might be one sacrificial lamb resignation - Geoffrey Cox may well have to consider his own position given he advised the Gov't prorogation would be legal.
He may not have done. If he did, why was the Cabinet not shown the advice, as requested?
Robert will kick himself when he reads this back and spots the typo.
What he meant to say is, "I take responsibility, as Lord Chancellor, for incorrectly advising the PM on the limitations of the prerogative power to prorogue Parliament. On such a crucial question and noting the damning and unanimous nature of the judgement, I am therefore resigning with immediate effect."
Why is it a resigning matter? It was tested in the Courts, much as say tax law is on a regular basis and a judgement made. The Government will be complying with that judgement. Move on.
Things do indeed go wrong in Government departments, in companies, in schools and so on all the time.
But this isn't VAT in Jaffa Cakes for goodness sake - some kind of under the radar thing delegated to juniors at HMRC. This was a huge call taken at the very top level. It was wrong (very wrong - unanimously and damningly rejected). If you get the big ones so wrong, you go. That's ministerial responsibility, executive responsibility in a business, and so on.
Although it was ultimately found unlawful, two Courts of Appeal had found otherwise, so it seems unfair to argue that the Lord Chancellor had given nonsensical advice.
Of course, this could be a cunning plan by Cummings and BoJo coming to fruition.
Infamy, infamy, they've all got it in for you voters. The MPs lied in their manifesto commitment to implement Brexit. They're now doing everything to maintain parliamentary will and not the voters' will. That's why they don't want a GE. The GE will be a battle between the voters and rogue MPs.
Don't forget the polling showed that most voters assumed the MPs were sent to Parliament to enact their views, not their own.
Absolutely. But go beyond October 31st and I don't see voters let alone TBP forgiving Boris for not having left. He is even at it today. So anything from November 1st sees him out of the game imo. It can be the most cunning plan of CummingDom but if he blows his deadline he's accepted that he has died.
As you state if Boris asks for an extension he is finished with the leaver electorate. This is why he can not and will not ask for one. I do not believe he will break the law but I do not see what else he will do. A deal with the EU will not save him because it will not get through Parliament.
Well of course that is the question. If he brings a deal what leverage does he have with each constituency? He is ahead of the polls so he is not worried about a GE so he can't say defeat this and get Corbyn to the Cons. Lab meanwhile are like pigs in shit. Boris has been prevented by law from leaving with no deal so they can sit pretty, vote against everything he brings and then wait to see what's fallen where.
As you say: "I do not believe he will break the law but I do not see what else he will do" - it sums up entirely the conundrum. And presumably if he does (try to) break the law then parliament will take control and send the letter itself?
Of course, this could be a cunning plan by Cummings and BoJo coming to fruition.
Infamy, infamy, they've all got it in for you voters. The MPs lied in their manifesto commitment to implement Brexit. They're now doing everything to maintain parliamentary will and not the voters' will. That's why they don't want a GE. The GE will be a battle between the voters and rogue MPs.
Don't forget the polling showed that most voters assumed the MPs were sent to Parliament to enact their views, not their own.
Absolutely. But go beyond October 31st and I don't see voters let alone TBP forgiving Boris for not having left. He is even at it today. So anything from November 1st sees him out of the game imo. It can be the most cunning plan of CummingDom but if he blows his deadline he's accepted that he has died.
That doesn't make sense to me. Who gets the blame for not meeting the deadline will be the critical issue. If BJ is seen as battling to leave but stymied by remainers he will keep that part of the electorate.
The most logical explanation for what BJ and Cummings is doing at the moment is game theory. It would explain a fair few of their moves. If that is the case, then expect another bold move.
I still think the government might resign tomorrow at 11am and throw the gauntlet down to Parliament/Bercow/Courts to try to govern the country which is clearly what they have been trying to do.
This has the added benefit that the remain MPs will all fight tooth and nail about what to do and Boris can stand back and say "look at this rabble, do you want the, running the country?"
Robert will kick himself when he reads this back and spots the typo.
What he meant to say is, "I take responsibility, as Lord Chancellor, for incorrectly advising the PM on the limitations of the prerogative power to prorogue Parliament. On such a crucial question and noting the damning and unanimous nature of the judgement, I am therefore resigning with immediate effect."
Why is it a resigning matter? It was tested in the Courts, much as say tax law is on a regular basis and a judgement made. The Government will be complying with that judgement. Move on.
Things do indeed go wrong in Government departments, in companies, in schools and so on all the time.
But this isn't VAT in Jaffa Cakes for goodness sake - some kind of under the radar thing delegated to juniors at HMRC. This was a huge call taken at the very top level. It was wrong (very wrong - unanimously and damningly rejected). If you get the big ones so wrong, you go. That's ministerial responsibility, executive responsibility in a business, and so on.
Although it was ultimately found unlawful, two Courts of Appeal had found otherwise, so it seems unfair to argue that the Lord Chancellor had given nonsensical advice.
The opposition aren't VONCing at the moment for a perceived political advantage in delaying the move till later. That's entirely their right but can we not have bleatings about Johnson not being the correct PM as of now.
But Pulpy, he was never the correct PM. Everyone knew what he was like. No excuses for it.
VONC him then. Jesus H Christ.
Personally, I'd do so tomorrow, but I don't have the authority.
And in any case I'll be in Taunton watching the cricket.
Robert will kick himself when he reads this back and spots the typo.
What he meant to say is, "I take responsibility, as Lord Chancellor, for incorrectly advising the PM on the limitations of the prerogative power to prorogue Parliament. On such a crucial question and noting the damning and unanimous nature of the judgement, I am therefore resigning with immediate effect."
Why is it a resigning matter? It was tested in the Courts, much as say tax law is on a regular basis and a judgement made. The Government will be complying with that judgement. Move on.
Things do indeed go wrong in Government departments, in companies, in schools and so on all the time.
But this isn't VAT in Jaffa Cakes for goodness sake - some kind of under the radar thing delegated to juniors at HMRC. This was a huge call taken at the very top level. It was wrong (very wrong - unanimously and damningly rejected). If you get the big ones so wrong, you go. That's ministerial responsibility, executive responsibility in a business, and so on.
Although it was ultimately found unlawful, two Courts of Appeal had found otherwise, so it seems unfair to argue that the Lord Chancellor had given nonsensical advice.
One surely?
London and Belfast ?
Was Belfast a Court of Appeal? You may well be right!
Brexit is a kind of revolution, and we were trying to do it quietly. Boris seems to have tumbled that to get it done you have to be noisy and explosive. Today enables that.
One would have hoped that an Australian style points system could be implemented without the need for tanks.
Of course, this could be a cunning plan by Cummings and BoJo coming to fruition.
Infamy, infamy, they've all got it in for you voters. The MPs lied in their manifesto commitment to implement Brexit. They're now doing everything to maintain parliamentary will and not the voters' will. That's why they don't want a GE. The GE will be a battle between the voters and rogue MPs.
Don't forget the polling showed that most voters assumed the MPs were sent to Parliament to enact their views, not their own.
Absolutely. But go beyond October 31st and I don't see voters let alone TBP forgiving Boris for not having left. He is even at it today. So anything from November 1st sees him out of the game imo. It can be the most cunning plan of CummingDom but if he blows his deadline he's accepted that he has died.
That doesn't make sense to me. Who gets the blame for not meeting the deadline will be the critical issue. If BJ is seen as battling to leave but stymied by remainers he will keep that part of the electorate.
The most logical explanation for what BJ and Cummings is doing at the moment is game theory. It would explain a fair few of their moves. If that is the case, then expect another bold move.
I still think the government might resign tomorrow at 11am and throw the gauntlet down to Parliament/Bercow/Courts to try to govern the country which is clearly what they have been trying to do.
This has the added benefit that the remain MPs will all fight tooth and nail about what to do and Boris can stand back and say "look at this rabble, do you want the, running the country?"
Indeed. They'll be like ferrets in a sack by tea time.
Apparently Boris Johnson, one time polemicist, journalist of sorts, graduate in classics, DISAGREES with the verdict of 11 Supreme Court judges FFS. Straight out of the Trump playbook. The arrogance and ludicrous hubris is staggering
The tory conference if it goes ahead will be baying for blood of the remainiacs, not literally one Hope's
But we were told the prorogation was nothing to do with Brexit...
There also may still be a few Tories left who feel that the PM lying to the Queen is a serious matter.
Where does the judgement say he's lied to the Queen ? The prorogation has been ruled unlawful due to the effect of stymying parliament. It was the Gov'ts view that there was no need to give a reason for prorogation.
HYFUD is the one with the connections but I’m scratching my head at the idea Boris will resign prior to 31 Oct.
There’s no guarantee at all this would trigger an election with advantageous timing to him, it could easily lead to a second referendum instead and he would lose the polling benefit of incumbency, potentially giving it to the supposed enemy of the state Corbyn. Far better to comply with the Benn Law if that turns out to be the only alternative.
Keep calm and carry on. All today does is give the Commons a few more days to grandstand. They already have their No To No Deal law on the books.
Exactly. Boris should hold on, and send in the extension amidst a massive press conference, saying that he is doing this only to obey the law that the Remainer Parliament forced on him.
Then take a copy, rip it up live on air, and say "This is what'll I'll do to the extension if you vote for me in the General Election".
Job done!
Actually I think HYFUD is right because it is the way he gets what he wants, which is an election. He resigns as PM, but not as leader of the Conservative Party. Possibly he nominates Raab safe in the knowledge it will never through but takes up a bit more time. But, at some point, Corbyn has to be invited to form a Government - forget all this nonsense about a GNU under Ken Clarke, Labour won't go with it, nor should it.
What next? Voting for Corbyn puts the Lib Dems in an awful position. It sees the Tories absolutely hammer them in Tory Remain seats in the SE as backers of Corbyn and his redistributive policies. And, if the SNP join the LDs in backing Corbyn, then the Tories can also press home in Scotland that the only safe party for Unionists to vote for is the Conservative party.
However, if the LDs do not vote for him, then it is unlikely he has the numbers given ex-Labour MPs etc (not to mention the 21 Conservatives). So we go to an election.
If BJ is smart (big question), he resigns as PM
He never gets back in (as leader of the Cons, or PM) if he resigns.
But he COULD get back in, as co-leader of the Brexit Party, if he resigns.
Apparently Boris Johnson, one time polemicist, journalist of sorts, graduate in classics, DISAGREES with the verdict of 11 Supreme Court judges FFS. Straight out of the Trump playbook. The arrogance and ludicrous hubris is staggering
Well of course he "disagrees" with the Court.
What did you expect? That he'd say "Ok the courts are right. I admit I broke the law and got the Queen to break the law on my behalf"?
Robert will kick himself when he reads this back and spots the typo.
What he meant to say is, "I take responsibility, as Lord Chancellor, for incorrectly advising the PM on the limitations of the prerogative power to prorogue Parliament. On such a crucial question and noting the damning and unanimous nature of the judgement, I am therefore resigning with immediate effect."
Why is it a resigning matter? It was tested in the Courts, much as say tax law is on a regular basis and a judgement made. The Government will be complying with that judgement. Move on.
Things do indeed go wrong in Government departments, in companies, in schools and so on all the time.
But this isn't VAT in Jaffa Cakes for goodness sake - some kind of under the radar thing delegated to juniors at HMRC. This was a huge call taken at the very top level. It was wrong (very wrong - unanimously and damningly rejected). If you get the big ones so wrong, you go. That's ministerial responsibility, executive responsibility in a business, and so on.
Although it was ultimately found unlawful, two Courts of Appeal had found otherwise, so it seems unfair to argue that the Lord Chancellor had given nonsensical advice.
I imagine there was considerable ambiguity which was why Bozo decided not to share with his cabinet
Apparently Boris Johnson, one time polemicist, journalist of sorts, graduate in classics, DISAGREES with the verdict of 11 Supreme Court judges FFS. Straight out of the Trump playbook. The arrogance and ludicrous hubris is staggering
He is quite within his rights to disagree. Whether he agrees with it is neither here nor there. The fact is, he is respecting the decision, which is what actually matters.
HYFUD is the one with the connections but I’m scratching my head at the idea Boris will resign prior to 31 Oct.
There’s no guarantee at all this would trigger an election with advantageous timing to him, it could easily lead to a second referendum instead and he would lose the polling benefit of incumbency, potentially giving it to the supposed enemy of the state Corbyn. Far better to comply with the Benn Law if that turns out to be the only alternative.
Keep calm and carry on. All today does is give the Commons a few more days to grandstand. They already have their No To No Deal law on the books.
Exactly. Boris should hold on, and send in the extension amidst a massive press conference, saying that he is doing this only to obey the law that the Remainer Parliament forced on him.
Then take a copy, rip it up live on air, and say "This is what'll I'll do to the extension if you vote for me in the General Election".
Job done!
Actually I think HYFUD is right because it is the way he gets what he wants, which is an election. He resigns as PM, but not as leader of the Conservative Party. Possibly he nominates Raab safe in the knowledge it will never through but takes up a bit more time. But, at some point, Corbyn has to be invited to form a Government - forget all this nonsense about a GNU under Ken Clarke, Labour won't go with it, nor should it.
What next? Voting for Corbyn puts the Lib Dems in an awful position. It sees the Tories absolutely hammer them in Tory Remain seats in the SE as backers of Corbyn and his redistributive policies. And, if the SNP join the LDs in backing Corbyn, then the Tories can also press home in Scotland that the only safe party for Unionists to vote for is the Conservative party.
However, if the LDs do not vote for him, then it is unlikely he has the numbers given ex-Labour MPs etc (not to mention the 21 Conservatives). So we go to an election.
If BJ is smart (big question), he resigns as PM
He never gets back in (as leader of the Cons, or PM) if he resigns.
But he COULD get back in, as co-leader of the Brexit Party, if he resigns.
Brexit party Ltd has one shareholder and he has no plans to share the stage with Boris
Brexit is a kind of revolution, and we were trying to do it quietly. Boris seems to have tumbled that to get it done you have to be noisy and explosive. Today enables that.
One would have hoped that an Australian style points system could be implemented without the need for tanks.
One would have hoped that Blair, Cameron etc could have listened to the concerns of millions of voters before or after unleashing record levels of immigration on them rather than thinking the current mess was a risk worth taking
Of course, this could be a cunning plan by Cummings and BoJo coming to fruition.
Infamy, infamy, they've all got it in for you voters. The MPs lied in their manifesto commitment to implement Brexit. They're now doing everything to maintain parliamentary will and not the voters' will. That's why they don't want a GE. The GE will be a battle between the voters and rogue MPs.
Don't forget the polling showed that most voters assumed the MPs were sent to Parliament to enact their views, not their own.
Absolutely. But go beyond October 31st and I don't see voters let alone TBP forgiving Boris for not having left. He is even at it today. So anything from November 1st sees him out of the game imo. It can be the most cunning plan of CummingDom but if he blows his deadline he's accepted that he has died.
That doesn't make sense to me. Who gets the blame for not meeting the deadline will be the critical issue. If BJ is seen as battling to leave but stymied by remainers he will keep that part of the electorate.
The most logical explanation for what BJ and Cummings is doing at the moment is game theory. It would explain a fair few of their moves. If that is the case, then expect another bold move.
I still think the government might resign tomorrow at 11am and throw the gauntlet down to Parliament/Bercow/Courts to try to govern the country which is clearly what they have been trying to do.
This has the added benefit that the remain MPs will all fight tooth and nail about what to do and Boris can stand back and say "look at this rabble, do you want the, running the country?"
Indeed. They'll be like ferrets in a sack by tea time.
I think he will very much be in a glass house to make any such affirmation: Liar, incompetent, law breaker. Not the best position to comment on the motes in his opponents eyes.
The opposition aren't VONCing at the moment for a perceived political advantage in delaying the move till later. That's entirely their right but can we not have bleatings about Johnson not being the correct PM as of now.
But Pulpy, he was never the correct PM. Everyone knew what he was like. No excuses for it.
VONC him then. Jesus H Christ.
Indeed. But why would the Opposition parties VONC at a time to Boris's advantage?
The Prime Minister is politically dangling in the wind. Why provide him with a lifeline before 31st October?
Absolutely. But go beyond October 31st and I don't see voters let alone TBP forgiving Boris for not having left. He is even at it today. So anything from November 1st sees him out of the game imo. It can be the most cunning plan of CummingDom but if he blows his deadline he's accepted that he has died.
I would like to agree with you but I don't. I agree with those who think this could play well for Johnson. Not saying this is part of some elaborate and stupendously clever and devious masterplan - as if - but it does potentially feed the 'Boris vs Remainer Establishment' narrative upon which, if the cards fall right, he can win a 'Brexit' general election this year or early next.
To best avoid the blame Boris needs to have someone else extend during the election campaign. That means VoNC asap, 14 days runs out early October, election called then, resigns as PM during the campaign making a big song and dance about not sending the letter.
The opposition aren't VONCing at the moment for a perceived political advantage in delaying the move till later. That's entirely their right but can we not have bleatings about Johnson not being the correct PM as of now.
But Pulpy, he was never the correct PM. Everyone knew what he was like. No excuses for it.
VONC him then. Jesus H Christ.
Indeed. But why would the Opposition parties VONC at a time to Boris's advantage?
The Prime Minister is politically dangling in the wind. Why provide him with a lifeline before 31st October?
Boris intoned "Do or Die". He wasn't wrong.
That's why the government should resign tomorrow and let the rablle that call themselves the UK Parliament try and work somerthing out if they actually can...
The opposition aren't VONCing at the moment for a perceived political advantage in delaying the move till later. That's entirely their right but can we not have bleatings about Johnson not being the correct PM as of now.
But Pulpy, he was never the correct PM. Everyone knew what he was like. No excuses for it.
VONC him then. Jesus H Christ.
Indeed. But why would the Opposition parties VONC at a time to Boris's advantage?
The Prime Minister is politically dangling in the wind. Why provide him with a lifeline before 31st October?
Boris intoned "Do or Die". He wasn't wrong.
Well yes, the opposition parties are more interested in trying to crucify Johnson rather than stopping a no deal Brexit. T'was ever thus.
Robert will kick himself when he reads this back and spots the typo.
What he meant to say is, "I take responsibility, as Lord Chancellor, for incorrectly advising the PM on the limitations of the prerogative power to prorogue Parliament. On such a crucial question and noting the damning and unanimous nature of the judgement, I am therefore resigning with immediate effect."
Why is it a resigning matter? It was tested in the Courts, much as say tax law is on a regular basis and a judgement made. The Government will be complying with that judgement. Move on.
Things do indeed go wrong in Government departments, in companies, in schools and so on all the time.
But this isn't VAT in Jaffa Cakes for goodness sake - some kind of under the radar thing delegated to juniors at HMRC. This was a huge call taken at the very top level. It was wrong (very wrong - unanimously and damningly rejected). If you get the big ones so wrong, you go. That's ministerial responsibility, executive responsibility in a business, and so on.
Although it was ultimately found unlawful, two Courts of Appeal had found otherwise, so it seems unfair to argue that the Lord Chancellor had given nonsensical advice.
I imagine there was considerable ambiguity which was why Bozo decided not to share with his cabinet
You mean they can't cope with amiguity? Poor things.
" a decision to prorogue Parliament (or to advise the monarch to prorogue Parliament) will be unlawful if the prorogation has the effect of frustrating or preventing, without reasonable justification, the ability of Parliament to carry out its constitutional functions as a legislature and as the body responsible for the supervision of the executive. In such a situation, the court will intervene if the effect is sufficiently serious to justify such an exceptional course."
This is the test against which every future prorogation will be judged unless Parliament chooses to legislate on it. It seems to me a highly subjective test in that parties might quite legitimately have different views on a number of the issues listed there but there we are.
Personally, I think that a PM who has failed to meet that test and who has been held by the SC to have unlawfully restricted the ability of Parliament to carry out its constitutional functions should resign. But he probably won't and it is far from clear that things would get any better if he did.
Apparently Boris Johnson, one time polemicist, journalist of sorts, graduate in classics, DISAGREES with the verdict of 11 Supreme Court judges FFS. Straight out of the Trump playbook. The arrogance and ludicrous hubris is staggering
Well of course he "disagrees" with the Court.
What did you expect? That he'd say "Ok the courts are right. I admit I broke the law and got the Queen to break the law on my behalf"?
He didn't need to say he disagrees with a legal judgement. He could express surprise and say he was originally advised otherwise . It makes him look an even bigger fool than most of us (clearly not your good blinkered self) already know him to be.
While it would be good if he did say what you suggest, that would be good, I would not "expect" it because he is a dishonest Cnut
Robert will kick himself when he reads this back and spots the typo.
What he meant to say is, "I take responsibility, as Lord Chancellor, for incorrectly advising the PM on the limitations of the prerogative power to prorogue Parliament. On such a crucial question and noting the damning and unanimous nature of the judgement, I am therefore resigning with immediate effect."
Why is it a resigning matter? It was tested in the Courts, much as say tax law is on a regular basis and a judgement made. The Government will be complying with that judgement. Move on.
Things do indeed go wrong in Government departments, in companies, in schools and so on all the time.
But this isn't VAT in Jaffa Cakes for goodness sake - some kind of under the radar thing delegated to juniors at HMRC. This was a huge call taken at the very top level. It was wrong (very wrong - unanimously and damningly rejected). If you get the big ones so wrong, you go. That's ministerial responsibility, executive responsibility in a business, and so on.
Although it was ultimately found unlawful, two Courts of Appeal had found otherwise, so it seems unfair to argue that the Lord Chancellor had given nonsensical advice.
I imagine there was considerable ambiguity which was why Bozo decided not to share with his cabinet
You mean they can't cope with amiguity? Poor things.
Exactly what the legal eagles told him in advance must also have a bearing on the advice Mr JOhnson gave HMtQ and his reasons for it, whatever they were. We don't know what they told him, so we don't know the purport or intent of what he told HMtQ. So I'm nopt surprised the court kept clear of that.
One would have hoped that Blair, Cameron etc could have listened to the concerns of millions of voters before or after unleashing record levels of immigration on them rather than thinking the current mess was a risk worth taking
That is the same point.
All of this shit just to lock a stable door when the horse had bolted.
The opposition aren't VONCing at the moment for a perceived political advantage in delaying the move till later. That's entirely their right but can we not have bleatings about Johnson not being the correct PM as of now.
But Pulpy, he was never the correct PM. Everyone knew what he was like. No excuses for it.
VONC him then. Jesus H Christ.
Indeed. But why would the Opposition parties VONC at a time to Boris's advantage?
The Prime Minister is politically dangling in the wind. Why provide him with a lifeline before 31st October?
Boris intoned "Do or Die". He wasn't wrong.
Well yes, the opposition parties are more interested in trying to crucify Johnson rather than stopping a no deal Brexit. T'was ever thus.
But they can do both, thanks to the brain-dead position he adopted. One can hardly be surprised that they accept this free gift.
The opposition aren't VONCing at the moment for a perceived political advantage in delaying the move till later. That's entirely their right but can we not have bleatings about Johnson not being the correct PM as of now.
But Pulpy, he was never the correct PM. Everyone knew what he was like. No excuses for it.
VONC him then. Jesus H Christ.
Indeed. But why would the Opposition parties VONC at a time to Boris's advantage?
The Prime Minister is politically dangling in the wind. Why provide him with a lifeline before 31st October?
Boris intoned "Do or Die". He wasn't wrong.
While the opposition have the fig leaf of "we don't trust him to request a delay so we can't dissolve parliament", they'll probably be OK. They may even be OK if their supporters see the value in letting Boris suffer shortly beyond Nov 1.
But once there's an extension in place, the clock is ticking and we basically start the same process as in April (EU: "Do not waste this time"; UK: ), there'll be a political price for not being seen to move the game forward. And I think there's a general consensus that means a GE.
The opposition aren't VONCing at the moment for a perceived political advantage in delaying the move till later. That's entirely their right but can we not have bleatings about Johnson not being the correct PM as of now.
But Pulpy, he was never the correct PM. Everyone knew what he was like. No excuses for it.
VONC him then. Jesus H Christ.
Indeed. But why would the Opposition parties VONC at a time to Boris's advantage?
The Prime Minister is politically dangling in the wind. Why provide him with a lifeline before 31st October?
Boris intoned "Do or Die". He wasn't wrong.
“Forward, the Lightweight Brigade!” Was there a man dismay’d? Not tho’ the PM knew Boris Bozo had blunder’d: Theirs was not to make reply, Theirs not to reason why, Theirs but to do and die, Into the Valley of Incredulity Rode the Tory Party.
The opposition aren't VONCing at the moment for a perceived political advantage in delaying the move till later. That's entirely their right but can we not have bleatings about Johnson not being the correct PM as of now.
But Pulpy, he was never the correct PM. Everyone knew what he was like. No excuses for it.
VONC him then. Jesus H Christ.
Indeed. But why would the Opposition parties VONC at a time to Boris's advantage?
The Prime Minister is politically dangling in the wind. Why provide him with a lifeline before 31st October?
Boris intoned "Do or Die". He wasn't wrong.
Well yes, the opposition parties are more interested in trying to crucify Johnson rather than stopping a no deal Brexit. T'was ever thus.
They want both and Boris is helping them do it. You never interrupt your political enemy when they're about to act like lemming.
Keep them there and pile on the pain. Try and do some real damage. Hopefully turn the polls.
But I thought the government could put down a specific one liner bill for a election on a named date which would need just a simple majority rather than 2/3.
The opposition aren't VONCing at the moment for a perceived political advantage in delaying the move till later. That's entirely their right but can we not have bleatings about Johnson not being the correct PM as of now.
But Pulpy, he was never the correct PM. Everyone knew what he was like. No excuses for it.
VONC him then. Jesus H Christ.
Indeed. But why would the Opposition parties VONC at a time to Boris's advantage?
The Prime Minister is politically dangling in the wind. Why provide him with a lifeline before 31st October?
Boris intoned "Do or Die". He wasn't wrong.
Well yes, the opposition parties are more interested in trying to crucify Johnson rather than stopping a no deal Brexit. T'was ever thus.
Indeed, and it would certainly be the same if Party roles were reversed.
I'm not looking forward to a Corbyn Government but gun to my head......? Tempted to say 'shoot' but on balance a shit Government that has got us into a right mess against a shit Opposition that might do the same?
Afraid I'd have to take my chance with the latter.
I reckon there might be one sacrificial lamb resignation - Geoffrey Cox may well have to consider his own position given he advised the Gov't prorogation would be legal.
He may not have done. If he did, why was the Cabinet not shown the advice, as requested?
Given the abject failure of the Government's legal eagles, the time has come for the man who can revitalise the judicial competency of the British executive, and who can be relied upon to deliver in its hour of need, and whose loyalty and staying power is never in question.
I reckon there might be one sacrificial lamb resignation - Geoffrey Cox may well have to consider his own position given he advised the Gov't prorogation would be legal.
He may not have done. If he did, why was the Cabinet not shown the advice, as requested?
Given the abject failure of the Government's legal eagles, the time has come for the man who can revitalise the judicial competency of the British executive, and who can be relied upon to deliver in its hour of need, and whose loyalty and staying power is never in question.
Step forward Charlie Falconer.
He has just announced his resignation from that post.
One would have hoped that Blair, Cameron etc could have listened to the concerns of millions of voters before or after unleashing record levels of immigration on them rather than thinking the current mess was a risk worth taking
That is the same point.
All of this shit just to lock a stable door when the horse had bolted.
Pass the WA for god's sake.
Incredible that it wasn’t passed first time with no fuss
The opposition aren't VONCing at the moment for a perceived political advantage in delaying the move till later. That's entirely their right but can we not have bleatings about Johnson not being the correct PM as of now.
But Pulpy, he was never the correct PM. Everyone knew what he was like. No excuses for it.
VONC him then. Jesus H Christ.
Indeed. But why would the Opposition parties VONC at a time to Boris's advantage?
The Prime Minister is politically dangling in the wind. Why provide him with a lifeline before 31st October?
Boris intoned "Do or Die". He wasn't wrong.
That's why the government should resign tomorrow and let the rablle that call themselves the UK Parliament try and work somerthing out if they actually can...
If the government resigns tomorrow it obviously loses all the levers of power and the advantageous optics that surrounds it.
PM Corbyn meets the Queen and enters 10 Downing Street, immediately signs the Benn Act extension letter. Asks the Queen for a dissolution and campaigns as PM during the election campaign spraying money around from the same magic money tree as the Conservatives, but more so.
One would have hoped that Blair, Cameron etc could have listened to the concerns of millions of voters before or after unleashing record levels of immigration on them rather than thinking the current mess was a risk worth taking
That is the same point.
All of this shit just to lock a stable door when the horse had bolted.
Pass the WA for god's sake.
Not sure you can have it again in the same session of parliament. It needs a new session to begin (after a Queens Speech) to be allowed another chance.
That means no WA (current version) until after the next time Parliament is prorogued.
Yes the diehard Remainers will enjoy their moment in the sun (though US style political appointments of Supreme Court justices are now inevitable)...
Why ?
The Supreme Court is now clearly a political body and more conservative judges need to be appointed by the Lord Chancellor
You have no proof that every member of the court does not vote conservative. It's very probable many of them do. Disagreement on the law does not indicate if they left or right.
This current court is now clearly left liberal and political in the way the Law Lords were not, political appointment of Supreme Court justices US style by the government of the day is now inevitable and necessary
I don't think upholding the rule of law or parliamentary democracy is unique to left liberals, or even to people interested in politics. It is basic decency. Nobody should want the supreme court to be packed with Conservative Party cronies.
That's a clear mistake. They have the moral high ground at the moment, but they'll lose it if they play silly games like that.
I don't see it as playing games. Johnson gambled that he could steal an extra two weeks out of the parliamentary calendar, and lost. Parliament needs to try to make some of that time back, and it's only just that the losing party is the one that pays the heaviest price (Labour is cutting its conference short, too). Also, do any Tory MPs actually enjoy going to their party conference? Labour is doing them a favour.
One would have hoped that Blair, Cameron etc could have listened to the concerns of millions of voters before or after unleashing record levels of immigration on them rather than thinking the current mess was a risk worth taking
That is the same point.
All of this shit just to lock a stable door when the horse had bolted.
Pass the WA for god's sake.
Incredible that it wasn’t passed first time with no fuss
Because Labour decided to oppose whatever deal May brought back, regardless of how close it was to their own envisaged Brexit deal. They played politics with it and now we're all in this mess.
The opposition aren't VONCing at the moment for a perceived political advantage in delaying the move till later. That's entirely their right but can we not have bleatings about Johnson not being the correct PM as of now.
But Pulpy, he was never the correct PM. Everyone knew what he was like. No excuses for it.
VONC him then. Jesus H Christ.
Indeed. But why would the Opposition parties VONC at a time to Boris's advantage?
The Prime Minister is politically dangling in the wind. Why provide him with a lifeline before 31st October?
Boris intoned "Do or Die". He wasn't wrong.
That's why the government should resign tomorrow and let the rablle that call themselves the UK Parliament try and work somerthing out if they actually can...
If the government resigns tomorrow it obviously loses all the levers of power and the advantageous optics that surrounds it.
PM Corbyn meets the Queen and enters 10 Downing Street, immediately signs the Benn Act extension letter. Asks the Queen for a dissolution and campaigns as PM during the election campaign spraying money around from the same magic money tree as the Conservatives, but more so.
One would have hoped that Blair, Cameron etc could have listened to the concerns of millions of voters before or after unleashing record levels of immigration on them rather than thinking the current mess was a risk worth taking
That is the same point.
All of this shit just to lock a stable door when the horse had bolted.
Pass the WA for god's sake.
Incredible that it wasn’t passed first time with no fuss
Because Labour decided to oppose whatever deal May brought back, regardles sof how close it was to their own envisaged Brexit deal. They played politics with it and now we're all in this mess.
No, they listened to Leavers like Boris Johnson who said Mrs May's deal was worse than Remaining.
Serious question - Is the Gov't "allowed" to resign ?
Yes, technically when the PM resigns the entire government resigns as well.
I think he resigns (As PM) on the day he's due to send the letter then. It'll probably trigger some letters to the 22 but I think he'll survive a Tory leadership confidence vote and become LoTO.
Any self respecting manager would resign after an 11-0 defeat.
Has Jester resigned yet?
What's the hurry? We're still waiting for Corbyn to resign after overwhelmingly losing a vote of no confidence amongst his own MPs, three years ago.
To be fair, Jezza has not found himself comprising HM with an unlawful act. An honourable resignation should be swift.
Yes, well, I'd advise not holding your breath!
Indeed. The (current) Tories will double down with Boris. The smart move would be chuck him overboard, find an actual Conservative leader, reunite the party and go to the country.
Comments
I think the next GE will return a Cons hung parliament if not a Cons majority.
That is all leave territory.
Not a great selling pitch.
Corbyn won 59.5% of the vote in a 4-way contest in 2015. He won 61.8% against Owen Smith in 2016.
Had the votes been redistributed down to two candidates, to enable a like-for-like comparison, Corbyn would almost certainly have won a bigger vote share in 2015.
As it was, his majority in both votes and vote share - as usually defined: first minus second - fell, from 40.5% to 23.6%, and from 171k to 120k votes.
Which ditch you wanna die in?
As you say: "I do not believe he will break the law but I do not see what else he will do" - it sums up entirely the conundrum. And presumably if he does (try to) break the law then parliament will take control and send the letter itself?
And in any case I'll be in Taunton watching the cricket.
There also may still be a few Tories left who feel that the PM lying to the Queen is a serious matter.
The prorogation has been ruled unlawful due to the effect of stymying parliament. It was the Gov'ts view that there was no need to give a reason for prorogation.
What did you expect? That he'd say "Ok the courts are right. I admit I broke the law and got the Queen to break the law on my behalf"?
The Prime Minister is politically dangling in the wind. Why provide him with a lifeline before 31st October?
Boris intoned "Do or Die". He wasn't wrong.
Weird big blank gap below (page 6 of the vanillacommunity site). Bit odd.
I daresay that's not straightforward.
" a decision to prorogue Parliament (or to advise the monarch to prorogue Parliament) will be unlawful if the prorogation has the effect of frustrating or preventing, without reasonable justification, the ability of Parliament to carry out its constitutional functions as a legislature and as the body responsible for the supervision of the executive. In such a situation, the court will intervene if the effect is sufficiently serious to justify such an exceptional course."
This is the test against which every future prorogation will be judged unless Parliament chooses to legislate on it. It seems to me a highly subjective test in that parties might quite legitimately have different views on a number of the issues listed there but there we are.
Personally, I think that a PM who has failed to meet that test and who has been held by the SC to have unlawfully restricted the ability of Parliament to carry out its constitutional functions should resign. But he probably won't and it is far from clear that things would get any better if he did.
While it would be good if he did say what you suggest, that would be good, I would not "expect" it because he is a dishonest Cnut
All of this shit just to lock a stable door when the horse had bolted.
Pass the WA for god's sake.
But once there's an extension in place, the clock is ticking and we basically start the same process as in April (EU: "Do not waste this time"; UK: ), there'll be a political price for not being seen to move the game forward. And I think there's a general consensus that means a GE.
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1176503721519456256
Was there a man dismay’d?
Not tho’ the PM knew
Boris Bozo had blunder’d:
Theirs was not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die,
Into the Valley of Incredulity
Rode the Tory Party.
Keep them there and pile on the pain. Try and do some real damage. Hopefully turn the polls.
But I thought the government could put down a specific one liner bill for a election on a named date which would need just a simple majority rather than 2/3.
Is that not right?
I'm not looking forward to a Corbyn Government but gun to my head......? Tempted to say 'shoot' but on balance a shit Government that has got us into a right mess against a shit Opposition that might do the same?
Afraid I'd have to take my chance with the latter.
Step forward Charlie Falconer.
https://twitter.com/SteveReedMP/status/1176504449885528064
https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1176497743969345542
PM Corbyn meets the Queen and enters 10 Downing Street, immediately signs the Benn Act extension letter. Asks the Queen for a dissolution and campaigns as PM during the election campaign spraying money around from the same magic money tree as the Conservatives, but more so.
Hhmmmm
That means no WA (current version) until after the next time Parliament is prorogued.