politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » EU referendum poll blow for Farage only hours before the TV
Comments
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They can't do that without the rUK's agreement, I'm afraid!malcolmg said:
You don't think they will want to scrub that rebate and stick a few knives in do you, surely they would never stoop to that.Carnyx said:
However, it should also be remembered that EWNI will also be in negotiations at the same time to reenter the EU, or to adjust to its new, but continuing, place in the EU (on precisely the same logic as Scotland, depending on which side of that part of the indy debate one tends to be). I for one don't believe that the EU will automatically roll over and allow EWNI to claim to be the sole continuing state without at least a poke in the biceps and a hard stare.malcolmg said:
You are obviously a bit dense and misinterpreted my witty riposte to Alan, the Scottish Government are not stupid and will obviously negotiate hard in the country's best interests. As I clearly said if the EU are not reasonable then we can tell them where to stick it. No-one can know in advance what the positions will be but it would not be surprising if they were light on Scotland to tweak London's tail.Anorak said:
"Hopefully we will not get completely rogered"malcolmg said:
Alan, Hopefully we will not get completely rogered, we can always tell them to F off if we do not like it.Alanbrooke said:
malc I agree with that, but what none of the Nats will face up to is the terms of membership will have changed and not to Scotland's benefit. Fisheries, oil, Euro, rebates etc. , that's the price of rejoining.malcolmg said:
Dear Dear Easterross , not that old canard, we will still be in the EU and by the time we have finalised negotiations and departed the union , we will still be in the EU.Easterross said:I wonder how many people would suddenly change their views on EU membership in/out if their employers point out how much of their sales and exports (and therefore jobs) are dependent on Britain's membership of the EU. This problem will become a live issue for thousands of Scots after 19th September if their employers have to begin assessing the effect of Scotland being outside the EU and wanting in.
That's the plan is it? Hope and moonshine? Best of luck with that.
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Dyedwoolie independence poll conducted in the last twenty minutes in the bar in Fort William.
Yes 66%
No 33%
Results were weighted according to cuteness of barmaid (yes girls are hotter, it's a fact)0 -
I see malc is on turn the Euro debate into Indy ref debate duty..0
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Ironic post of the day, bearing in mind you always seem to miss some of the disgusting deeds that occur when it relates to the Liberal Democrats but are only too happy to point it out when something occurs relating to other parties.MarkSenior said:
What a strange comment , I have been pointing out abuse of postal voting by the Conservatives for many years .AveryLP said:
More decisive was widespread abuse of postal votescurrystar said:
The main reason the tories didn't win an outright majority was the expenses scandal, look at their polling figures after this story broke.Richard_Nabavi said:
Actually I don't think that was the main factor, the main factor was Osborne (quite rightly) telling the truth about the public finances, widely regarded at the time as dangerously honest:Bond_James_Bond said:Funny how Cameron's poll slide, from commanding majority to hung Parliament, dates precisely from the moment in 2009 when he confirmed that there would be no referendum on ratification.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8292680.stm
This is a later article but explores the point in more detail:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/georgeosborne/9605607/George-Osbornes-honesty-on-cuts-cost-Conservatives-a-majority-say-advisers.html
Having said that, I accept that Cameron and Hague made a complete hash of explaining what their position would be once ratification had taken place, and I think that would have lost them credibility. I went to a dinner shortly after the election where I was able to ask Hague why they had not been clear about what the policy would be if the treaty was ratified; to be honest his answer wasn't very convincing.
A fact Mark Senior knows well but is curiously unprepared to admit in public.0 -
Today Labour rebels according to Labour List:
Diane Abbott
Ronnie Campbell
Katy Clark
Michael Connarty
Jeremy Corbyn
Kelvin Hopkins
Glenda Jackson
John McDonnell
George Mudie
Linda Riordan
Denis Skinner
Tom Watson
Mike Wood.0 -
The tension... *imagines Cleggers and Farage limbering up behind the scenes*0
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The Guardian is doing a live blog of the debate.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/2014/mar/26/nigel-farage-vs-nick-clegg-the-debate-for-europe-live0 -
In all seriousness I will be chatting to the barmaid all night, but also, the No movement really doesn't seem to have a clue. We want to remain but not really sure why.
Yes is coherent.
Yes is correct, I would be voting yes if I lived up here. Different culture, different climate, different legal system, different hopes. The only reason yes hasn't walked this is fear. And that is dissipating imho0 -
Oh... Farage is just chatting with his trainers round a table. Bit disappointed.0
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The tension mounts
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You mean like you presuming guilt when Lib Dems are not charged with anything and completely ignoring when one of your own is under going a trial for homosexual rape .SquareRoot said:
Ironic post of the day, bearing in mind you always seem to miss some of the disgusting deeds that occur when it relates to the Liberal Democrats but are only too happy to point it out when something occurs relating to other parties.MarkSenior said:
What a strange comment , I have been pointing out abuse of postal voting by the Conservatives for many years .AveryLP said:
More decisive was widespread abuse of postal votescurrystar said:
The main reason the tories didn't win an outright majority was the expenses scandal, look at their polling figures after this story broke.Richard_Nabavi said:
Actually I don't think that was the main factor, the main factor was Osborne (quite rightly) telling the truth about the public finances, widely regarded at the time as dangerously honest:Bond_James_Bond said:Funny how Cameron's poll slide, from commanding majority to hung Parliament, dates precisely from the moment in 2009 when he confirmed that there would be no referendum on ratification.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8292680.stm
This is a later article but explores the point in more detail:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/georgeosborne/9605607/George-Osbornes-honesty-on-cuts-cost-Conservatives-a-majority-say-advisers.html
Having said that, I accept that Cameron and Hague made a complete hash of explaining what their position would be once ratification had taken place, and I think that would have lost them credibility. I went to a dinner shortly after the election where I was able to ask Hague why they had not been clear about what the policy would be if the treaty was ratified; to be honest his answer wasn't very convincing.
A fact Mark Senior knows well but is curiously unprepared to admit in public.0 -
And the Tele. And live on BBC and Sky. And LBC link here - WITH A COUNTDOWN: http://www.lbc.co.uk/watch-lbc-leaders-debate-live---26th-march-87667old_labour said:The Guardian is doing a live blog of the debate.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/2014/mar/26/nigel-farage-vs-nick-clegg-the-debate-for-europe-live0 -
*takes handful of Kalms*0
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The Lib Dems have sent out this email to their supporters. They are trying to rig the "worm"!
In just a few minutes, Nick is going to go on stage and take on Nigel Farage. We’re here at HQ ready to make sure we win tonight’s twitter battle, and I need your help.
Here’s three things you can do:
1) Follow and retweet the @LibDems and @LibDemPress accounts
2) Make sure you use the #NickVNigel hashtag
3) Watch the debate live on our website
LBC are running a “Twitter worm” which tracks who is winning the twitter battle. Nick needs your help to come out on top, so lets get tweeting!
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/2014/mar/26/nigel-farage-vs-nick-clegg-the-debate-for-europe-live#block-5333200de4b095031dc616c2
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I hope Clegg has learned from the Obama McCain debate where McCain struggled to hide his contempt for Obama. Clegg could ignore Farage and speak to the audience but I think he'd be better to deal with him directly rather than pretend he's not there. I'd take the view that Farage isn't mad or bad, just wrong.0
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I'm thinking the winner of the debate will be Nigel Clegg by a knock-out !!
Or something like that ....0 -
Farage reckons he hasn't trained for this debate at all and is just going to speak honestly what he feels... a wise move?0
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"That is clearly false"Richard_Tyndall said:
That is clearly false because as it stands Cameron could not be in a weaker position for any negotiations. He has already stated very clearly that he will not countenance the UK leaving the EU and has also failed utterly to define what he wants out of any negotiations whilst leaving the timescale for talks so short that everyone knows he is not serious.JosiasJessop said:
I know you believe 'no' would have won a post-treaty referendum (which I disagree with for the reasons I've given passim). But if I'm right and the referendum lost, then do you agree that it would have hugely weakened any PM's hand in future negotiations?
It's one heck of a gamble over something that is nowhere near your main aim. It would have been the wrong referendum.
To date Cameron's achievements with regard to our relationship with the EU have been zero. His 'not letting matters lie' position has proved as false as his Cast Iron Pledge. No significant renegotiation or restoration of powers to the UK will be achieved as long as Cameron is in power because his heart is not in it and the rest of the EU knows it. .
No, it isn't. You *wish* it was false. A lost referendum on an already-ratified Lisbon treaty would have been a disaster for those wanting to leave Europe.
Anyway, I'm the sort of voter you should be trying to persuade. Of all the BOOers (I wish there was a better term as UKIPers does not cover it) on here you seem the most prepared for a referendum.
Develop an argument about what leaving the EU would mean for Britain, and one that does not denigrate Johnny Foreigner. What does it mean for politics? What does it mean for trade? What would have to be negotiated before we leave? Which organisations and agreements would we want to remain part of? Develop reports showing the pros - and cons - of leaving. Say how you will mitigate the effects of the cons, and accentuate the advantages of the pros.
Sadly, many BOOers appear too frightened of someone's skin colour or accent to answer these questions. You're better than that, so I'm looking at you for answers.
Persuade me.0 -
Clegg doing fantastically well in the debate, crushing Farage.
*innocent face*0 -
Wonder whether Nick Ferrari was picked as ref because his name sounds like a cross between the two?!0
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Maybe this will be one of those black swan moments, Clegg and Farage come on stage to pounding techno and embrace in a passionate clinch. Farage renouncing euro scepticism and Clegg announcing all Lib Dems are now required to be beet root faced toffs that voted for Nicholas Fairbairn to be world emporer.
It's like watching the adventures of the idiot Waltons rather than John Boy, the drunk dad or the fit one0 -
Farage looks a bit stiff ....0
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He may be fibbing ...isam said:Farage reckons he hasn't trained for this debate at all and is just going to speak honestly what he feels... a wise move?
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someone called "Martin Day" on twitter claiming he's put £11 grand on Farage to win the debate...
The name sounds familiar, from PB of yesteryear?0 -
Lol, I'd forgotten about him. Still nutty as a fruitcake thenRodCrosby said:someone called "Martin Day" on twitter claiming he's put £11 grand on Farage to win the debate...
The name sounds familiar, from PB of yesteryear?0 -
When he was posting on here , he did not have £ 1 to his name let alone £ 11,000`RodCrosby said:someone called "Martin Day" on twitter claiming he's put £11 grand on Farage to win the debate...
The name sounds familiar, from PB of yesteryear?0 -
Both start ok from their viewpoint.0
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Just google "Lib Dem charged" and then tell me over the last 10 yrs how many of these cases have you been the first to highlight on PB, Just one will do.MarkSenior said:
You mean like you presuming guilt when Lib Dems are not charged with anything and completely ignoring when one of your own is under going a trial for homosexual rape .SquareRoot said:
Ironic post of the day, bearing in mind you always seem to miss some of the disgusting deeds that occur when it relates to the Liberal Democrats but are only too happy to point it out when something occurs relating to other parties.MarkSenior said:
What a strange comment , I have been pointing out abuse of postal voting by the Conservatives for many years .AveryLP said:
More decisive was widespread abuse of postal votescurrystar said:
The main reason the tories didn't win an outright majority was the expenses scandal, look at their polling figures after this story broke.Richard_Nabavi said:
Actually I don't think that was the main factor, the main factor was Osborne (quite rightly) telling the truth about the public finances, widely regarded at the time as dangerously honest:Bond_James_Bond said:Funny how Cameron's poll slide, from commanding majority to hung Parliament, dates precisely from the moment in 2009 when he confirmed that there would be no referendum on ratification.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8292680.stm
This is a later article but explores the point in more detail:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/georgeosborne/9605607/George-Osbornes-honesty-on-cuts-cost-Conservatives-a-majority-say-advisers.html
Having said that, I accept that Cameron and Hague made a complete hash of explaining what their position would be once ratification had taken place, and I think that would have lost them credibility. I went to a dinner shortly after the election where I was able to ask Hague why they had not been clear about what the policy would be if the treaty was ratified; to be honest his answer wasn't very convincing.
A fact Mark Senior knows well but is curiously unprepared to admit in public.0 -
Clegg wins round one on points.0
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Is that him?
@JayneSeckerSky @KayBurley @adamboultonSKY Nigel will batter Nick.I hope so because I've just wagered £11,000 to win £8,000 on just that !
— Martin Day (@nitramyad) March 26, 20140 -
Worm plunge.0
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Are there any of those online live opinion tracker things tonight?0
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Both of them looking out at audience at all times rather than at the other (Farage has glanced at Clegg a time or two, and turned that way while still looking out at audience).
I assume it's a tactic, iirc in American debates they tend to look at each other much more.0 -
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I think Lincoln and Douglas are lying peacefully in their graves.0
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I agree with you on that.AveryLP said:0 -
Farage doing well, IMO.
*Team Nige*0 -
That was Martin Coxall!GIN1138 said:
Got himself arrested during a fracas between Con and Lab supporters during the last election I think, LOL.RodCrosby said:someone called "Martin Day" on twitter claiming he's put £11 grand on Farage to win the debate...
The name sounds familiar, from PB of yesteryear?
For alleged assault while impersonating John Prescott without warrant or licence.
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Clegg weak on this issue, it has to be said.0
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Farage utterly right on the unequalness nature of immigration0
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Clegg is being flattened by Farage on LBC now. a superb performance by Nigel.
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I wonder if at the election next year we get a Prime ministerial debate between Cameron and Miliband on BBC and Sky, Channel 4 might do an alternative PM's debate with these two? Is there enough chemistry to make it worthwhile?
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I get all these Martin's mixed up.AveryLP said:
That was Martin Coxall!GIN1138 said:
Got himself arrested during a fracas between Con and Lab supporters during the last election I think, LOL.RodCrosby said:someone called "Martin Day" on twitter claiming he's put £11 grand on Farage to win the debate...
The name sounds familiar, from PB of yesteryear?
For alleged assault while impersonating John Prescott without warrant or licence.
I do remember that emotions were running high on here during the election - JackW had to have his medication doubled!
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I like this format (thus far).0
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Garage winning here. 29 million line a point back to Clegg.
Garage ahead on points though0 -
RodCrosby said:
Is that him?
@JayneSeckerSky @KayBurley @adamboultonSKY Nigel will batter Nick.I hope so because I've just wagered £11,000 to win £8,000 on just that !
— Martin Day (@nitramyad) March 26, 2014
Could be. He never rated Nick Clegg very much I seem to remember..........0 -
Farage is plummling clegg on the free movement of people. Clegg trying to lecture too much.0
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RodCrosby said:
Is that him?
@JayneSeckerSky @KayBurley @adamboultonSKY Nigel will batter Nick.I hope so because I've just wagered £11,000 to win £8,000 on just that !
— Martin Day (@nitramyad) March 26, 2014
I could be wrong but I don't believe this is the "Martin Day" who used to be on PB. As far as I know Andrew doesn't have any children. He suffered from a serious mental breakdown which almost claimed his life and when he was last in contact had moved to another part of the country to live with his father.
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Can I give an analogy: you are a member of a golf club. To change the rules of the golf club, you need the unanimous approval of all the members. There is a proposal to change the rules: it is passed unanimously.Bond_James_Bond said:
So the question then is simply do we want our terms altered in any way? If so, we vote to repeal Lisbon. If not then you vote to leave it on the books.
One member changes his mind.
The rules of the club cannot change. Because to do so requires the unanimous support of all the members.
We can negotiate for a better deal in Europe. We can work with our increasingly EU-project-sceptic fellow governments for this.
However, we cannot demand the rules change just for us, referendum or no referendum, because any rule change requires the agreement of all members of the EU.
There will not be a new treaty - absent another Eurozone crisis - until 2022/3. This means that all Cameron can come home with is some piece of paper, some agreement with Mrs Merkel, M Hollande, and a few other leaders. He cannot offer fundamental change to the rules until a new treaty is forged. That is simply not going to happen for another eight or so years, because every member of our hypothetical golf club gets to argue their case for changes they want (and which they've promised their own electorates).
If we don't like this process, we can leave the EU.0 -
But the treaty came into force after that time, on the 1st December 2009. Ireland's second referendum was in October, well after Cameron spoke.SouthamObserver said:David Cameron, 26th May 2009:
"We will therefore hold a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty, pass a law requiring a referendum to approve any further transfers of power to the EU, negotiate the return of powers, and require far more detailed scrutiny in Parliament of EU legislation, regulation and spending."
http://www.europeanfoundation.org/my_weblog/2009/05/fixing-broken-politics.html
That is about 10-months after Lisbon was ratified by the UK government and a few months before he changed his mind.
If Ireland had voted no, the treaty would still have been in play in May 2010.0 -
I don't think anyone is going to be changing their mind this evening :-)0
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now that's balanced reporting ...MikeK said:Clegg is being flattened by Farage on LBC now. a superb performance by Nigel.
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45000 vs 2%. Classic juxtaposition0
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Nick looks like a guy sincerely telling his girlfriend that he will never cheat again for the second time.0
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I still hate them both.rcs1000 said:I don't think anyone is going to be changing their mind this evening :-)
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Different styles for a different format and a different era.old_labour said:I think Lincoln and Douglas are lying peacefully in their graves.
But vaguely relevant.
https://xkcd.com/635/0 -
I think Ed is doing very well - he's not been weird or sniffed anyone at all so far...0
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:-)FrankBooth said:
I still hate them both.rcs1000 said:I don't think anyone is going to be changing their mind this evening :-)
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Farage using my argument that we discriminate against the rest of the world by allowing EU immigrants to come whatever, while requiring permits etc from everyone else in the world
Well said Nige!0 -
The Guardian live blog is showing the "worm" at the top of the page.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/2014/mar/26/nigel-farage-vs-nick-clegg-the-debate-for-europe-live
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One can't be balanced where Cleggover is concerned.Scrapheap_as_was said:
now that's balanced reporting ...MikeK said:Clegg is being flattened by Farage on LBC now. a superb performance by Nigel.
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Both crap here to be honest..0
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Someone needs to tell him to stop drifting into that pleading body language. (And saying 'drawbridge'). I find body language fascinating.old_labour said:Nick looks like a guy sincerely telling his girlfriend that he will never cheat again for the second time.
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Farage hammers clegg again on the euro arguement0
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hahaold_labour said:Nick looks like a guy sincerely telling his girlfriend that he will never cheat again for the second time.
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Can't see many minds being changed by this, but it has the potential to cement UKIP's support. I'd say the big loser so far is Mr Cameron. Farage is being given free rein to grab the Eurosceptic vote.0
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The Guardian rolling blog has Farage winning it so far.0
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It's flatlined on LBC. Crash team!old_labour said:The Guardian live blog is showing the "worm" at the top of the page.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/2014/mar/26/nigel-farage-vs-nick-clegg-the-debate-for-europe-live0 -
I'm not watching, it'll mostly be preaching to the converted.0
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I agree Farage is looking pretty good here.SouthamObserver said:Can't see many minds being changed by this, but it has the potential to cement UKIP's support. I'd say the big loser so far is Mr Cameron. Farage is being given free rein to grab the Eurosceptic vote.
How much this impacts upon anything is another matter given the audience size.0 -
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Better performance from Farage than Clegg. But both preaching to their own choirs.0
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Did Farage just say that Ford had moved the Southampton plant to Turkey, and then a few seconds later say it moved to Poland?
These strange countries are all the same, aren't they?0 -
Nick drops the 3 mil jobs bomb half hour in0
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Are you Anthony King ?SouthamObserver said:Can't see many minds being changed by this, but it has the potential to cement UKIP's support. I'd say the big loser so far is Mr Cameron. Farage is being given free rein to grab the Eurosceptic vote.
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The argument isn't very broad is it - how on earth do they debate this again.
Jobs, immigration - good/bad in/out.
Done.0 -
Some quite effective points by Clegg in the debate on the benefits to jobs of EU membership0
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The worm should be cut in two by a shovel.old_labour said:The Guardian live blog is showing the "worm" at the top of the page.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/2014/mar/26/nigel-farage-vs-nick-clegg-the-debate-for-europe-live
It's hideous.0 -
Clegg sounding reasonable next to the tiresome monomaniac pub bore. A calm and reassring presence with the gravity of government. Farage beginning to turn beetroot faced.
Just evening up the comments ;-)0 -
The naivety is breathtaking.SouthamObserver said:
I think you'll be surprised! The rUK will not "claim" anything, it will be automatically recognised as the continuing member state.Carnyx said:
However, it should also be remembered that EWNI will also be in negotiations at the same time to reenter the EU, or to adjust to its new, but continuing, place in the EU (on precisely the same logic as Scotland, depending on which side of that part of the indy debate one tends to be). I for one don't believe that the EU will automatically roll over and allow EWNI to claim to be the sole continuing state without at least a poke in the biceps and a hard stare.malcolmg said:
You are obviously a bit dense and misinterpreted my witty riposte to Alan, the Scottish Government are not stupid and will obviously negotiate hard in the country's best interests. As I clearly said if the EU are not reasonable then we can tell them where to stick it. No-one can know in advance what the positions will be but it would not be surprising if they were light on Scotland to tweak London's tail.Anorak said:
"Hopefully we will not get completely rogered"malcolmg said:
Alan, Hopefully we will not get completely rogered, we can always tell them to F off if we do not like it.Alanbrooke said:
malc I agree with that, but what none of the Nats will face up to is the terms of membership will have changed and not to Scotland's benefit. Fisheries, oil, Euro, rebates etc. , that's the price of rejoining.malcolmg said:
Dear Dear Easterross , not that old canard, we will still be in the EU and by the time we have finalised negotiations and departed the union , we will still be in the EU.Easterross said:I wonder how many people would suddenly change their views on EU membership in/out if their employers point out how much of their sales and exports (and therefore jobs) are dependent on Britain's membership of the EU. This problem will become a live issue for thousands of Scots after 19th September if their employers have to begin assessing the effect of Scotland being outside the EU and wanting in.
That's the plan is it? Hope and moonshine? Best of luck with that.0 -
No updates on the Telegraph live blog since the debate started at 7PM.Carola said:
It's flatlined on LBC. Crash team!old_labour said:The Guardian live blog is showing the "worm" at the top of the page.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/2014/mar/26/nigel-farage-vs-nick-clegg-the-debate-for-europe-live0 -
If it means UKIP gets 10% plus in next year's GE it will be a very big deal indeed. Farage is being given free rein to make a case huge numbers of Tory activists would like to be making.Slackbladder said:
I agree Farage is looking pretty good here.SouthamObserver said:Can't see many minds being changed by this, but it has the potential to cement UKIP's support. I'd say the big loser so far is Mr Cameron. Farage is being given free rein to grab the Eurosceptic vote.
How much this impacts upon anything is another matter given the audience size.
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I can't see the worm.JosiasJessop said:
The worm should be cut in two by a shovel.old_labour said:The Guardian live blog is showing the "worm" at the top of the page.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/2014/mar/26/nigel-farage-vs-nick-clegg-the-debate-for-europe-live
It's hideous.
All I get is a photo of Nigel.
Are they one and the same?0 -
Clegg getting better. He's finding his *passion*. Farage started with his and now he's getting a bit knackered.0
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LOL
Cleggy using the too wee too poor arguments. How long until it's too stupid ?
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No. Ferrari said Turkey, and Farage said PolandJosiasJessop said:Did Farage just say that Ford had moved the Southampton plant to Turkey, and then a few seconds later say it moved to Poland?
These strange countries are all the same, aren't they?0 -
Your knowledge of international law is clearly non-existent.Stuart_Dickson said:
The naivety is breathtaking.SouthamObserver said:
I think you'll be surprised! The rUK will not "claim" anything, it will be automatically recognised as the continuing member state.Carnyx said:
However, it should also be remembered that EWNI will also be in negotiations at the same time to reenter the EU, or to adjust to its new, but continuing, place in the EU (on precisely the same logic as Scotland, depending on which side of that part of the indy debate one tends to be). I for one don't believe that the EU will automatically roll over and allow EWNI to claim to be the sole continuing state without at least a poke in the biceps and a hard stare.malcolmg said:
You are obviously a bit dense and misinterpreted my witty riposte to Alan, the Scottish Government are not stupid and will obviously negotiate hard in the country's best interests. As I clearly said if the EU are not reasonable then we can tell them where to stick it. No-one can know in advance what the positions will be but it would not be surprising if they were light on Scotland to tweak London's tail.Anorak said:
"Hopefully we will not get completely rogered"malcolmg said:
Alan, Hopefully we will not get completely rogered, we can always tell them to F off if we do not like it.Alanbrooke said:
malc I agree with that, but what none of the Nats will face up to is the terms of membership will have changed and not to Scotland's benefit. Fisheries, oil, Euro, rebates etc. , that's the price of rejoining.malcolmg said:
Dear Dear Easterross , not that old canard, we will still be in the EU and by the time we have finalised negotiations and departed the union , we will still be in the EU.Easterross said:I wonder how many people would suddenly change their views on EU membership in/out if their employers point out how much of their sales and exports (and therefore jobs) are dependent on Britain's membership of the EU. This problem will become a live issue for thousands of Scots after 19th September if their employers have to begin assessing the effect of Scotland being outside the EU and wanting in.
That's the plan is it? Hope and moonshine? Best of luck with that.
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We all know he can't resist a bit of Tory.old_labour said:Nick looks like a guy sincerely telling his girlfriend that he will never cheat again for the second time.
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Lol. The LBC worm's snuffed it. Must be all those LDs and Ukippers banging away.AveryLP said:
I can't see the worm.JosiasJessop said:
The worm should be cut in two by a shovel.old_labour said:The Guardian live blog is showing the "worm" at the top of the page.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/2014/mar/26/nigel-farage-vs-nick-clegg-the-debate-for-europe-live
It's hideous.
All I get is a photo of Nigel.
Are they one and the same?0 -
No matter what Clegg says or does in this debate, I keep on thinking of his pledge not to increase student fees.0
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Up there with his knowledge of "polling" then.....SouthamObserver said:
Your knowledge of international law is clearly non-existent.Stuart_Dickson said:
The naivety is breathtaking.SouthamObserver said:
I think you'll be surprised! The rUK will not "claim" anything, it will be automatically recognised as the continuing member state.Carnyx said:
However, it should also be remembered that EWNI will also be in negotiations at the same time to reenter the EU, or to adjust to its new, but continuing, place in the EU (on precisely the same logic as Scotland, depending on which side of that part of the indy debate one tends to be). I for one don't believe that the EU will automatically roll over and allow EWNI to claim to be the sole continuing state without at least a poke in the biceps and a hard stare.malcolmg said:
You are obviously a bit dense and misinterpreted my witty riposte to Alan, the Scottish Government are not stupid and will obviously negotiate hard in the country's best interests. As I clearly said if the EU are not reasonable then we can tell them where to stick it. No-one can know in advance what the positions will be but it would not be surprising if they were light on Scotland to tweak London's tail.Anorak said:
"Hopefully we will not get completely rogered"malcolmg said:
Alan, Hopefully we will not get completely rogered, we can always tell them to F off if we do not like it.Alanbrooke said:
malc I agree with that, but what none of the Nats will face up to is the terms of membership will have changed and not to Scotland's benefit. Fisheries, oil, Euro, rebates etc. , that's the price of rejoining.malcolmg said:
Dear Dear Easterross , not that old canard, we will still be in the EU and by the time we have finalised negotiations and departed the union , we will still be in the EU.Easterross said:I wonder how many people would suddenly change their views on EU membership in/out if their employers point out how much of their sales and exports (and therefore jobs) are dependent on Britain's membership of the EU. This problem will become a live issue for thousands of Scots after 19th September if their employers have to begin assessing the effect of Scotland being outside the EU and wanting in.
That's the plan is it? Hope and moonshine? Best of luck with that.
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@paulwaugh
First proper gaffe? Did Farage just blunder by appearing to trash the UK car industry? #LBCdebate
@nicholaswatt
Has @Nigel_Farage just said that EU cars from outside UK are better than those built in UK?
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I'd disagree. So many of our wars with Spain were about preventing them dominating France (at the time they controlled the Spanish Netherlands), the wars with the Sun King were about Wallonia and Flanders, and the whole reason Belgium was set up was to create obstacles to France. Germany was really a 20th century thingHurstLlama said:@AlanBrooke
"You're bonkers Llama."
I thought I'd have an early evening snort and now its all over the keyboard! You have form for that Mr. Brooke, I may have to think about starting to charge you for new keyboards.
As for Schleswig-Holstein, as Lord Palmerston explained, only three people understood the question, one (the Prince-Consort) was dead, one had gone mad thinking about it and Palmerston himself who had forgotten it. I, therefore, suspect that Mr. Charles was not being entirely serious when he mentioned it as a long term English policy aim. (Note how he cunningly changes the real English policy aim though, no dominant power in Europe becomes "never let one country control the entire of the continental Channel coast" - typical banker).0
