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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » EU referendum poll blow for Farage only hours before the TV

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  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    Anorak said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    I wonder how many people would suddenly change their views on EU membership in/out if their employers point out how much of their sales and exports (and therefore jobs) are dependent on Britain's membership of the EU. This problem will become a live issue for thousands of Scots after 19th September if their employers have to begin assessing the effect of Scotland being outside the EU and wanting in.

    Dear Dear Easterross , not that old canard, we will still be in the EU and by the time we have finalised negotiations and departed the union , we will still be in the EU.
    malc I agree with that, but what none of the Nats will face up to is the terms of membership will have changed and not to Scotland's benefit. Fisheries, oil, Euro, rebates etc. , that's the price of rejoining.
    Alan, Hopefully we will not get completely rogered, we can always tell them to F off if we do not like it.
    "Hopefully we will not get completely rogered"

    That's the plan is it? Hope and moonshine? Best of luck with that.
    You are obviously a bit dense and misinterpreted my witty riposte to Alan, the Scottish Government are not stupid and will obviously negotiate hard in the country's best interests. As I clearly said if the EU are not reasonable then we can tell them where to stick it. No-one can know in advance what the positions will be but it would not be surprising if they were light on Scotland to tweak London's tail.
    However, it should also be remembered that EWNI will also be in negotiations at the same time to reenter the EU, or to adjust to its new, but continuing, place in the EU (on precisely the same logic as Scotland, depending on which side of that part of the indy debate one tends to be). I for one don't believe that the EU will automatically roll over and allow EWNI to claim to be the sole continuing state without at least a poke in the biceps and a hard stare.
    You don't think they will want to scrub that rebate and stick a few knives in do you, surely they would never stoop to that.

    They can't do that without the rUK's agreement, I'm afraid!

  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Dyedwoolie independence poll conducted in the last twenty minutes in the bar in Fort William.
    Yes 66%
    No 33%
    Results were weighted according to cuteness of barmaid (yes girls are hotter, it's a fact)
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    I see malc is on turn the Euro debate into Indy ref debate duty..
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    AveryLP said:

    currystar said:

    Funny how Cameron's poll slide, from commanding majority to hung Parliament, dates precisely from the moment in 2009 when he confirmed that there would be no referendum on ratification.

    Actually I don't think that was the main factor, the main factor was Osborne (quite rightly) telling the truth about the public finances, widely regarded at the time as dangerously honest:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8292680.stm

    This is a later article but explores the point in more detail:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/georgeosborne/9605607/George-Osbornes-honesty-on-cuts-cost-Conservatives-a-majority-say-advisers.html

    Having said that, I accept that Cameron and Hague made a complete hash of explaining what their position would be once ratification had taken place, and I think that would have lost them credibility. I went to a dinner shortly after the election where I was able to ask Hague why they had not been clear about what the policy would be if the treaty was ratified; to be honest his answer wasn't very convincing.
    The main reason the tories didn't win an outright majority was the expenses scandal, look at their polling figures after this story broke.
    More decisive was widespread abuse of postal votes

    A fact Mark Senior knows well but is curiously unprepared to admit in public.
    What a strange comment , I have been pointing out abuse of postal voting by the Conservatives for many years .
    Ironic post of the day, bearing in mind you always seem to miss some of the disgusting deeds that occur when it relates to the Liberal Democrats but are only too happy to point it out when something occurs relating to other parties.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    TGOHF said:

    I see malc is on turn the Euro debate into Indy ref debate duty..

    harry, everything is about the independence debate till the18th of September. Then I am on holiday and you will get a rest, nightmare that I will not be around to crow.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    Today Labour rebels according to Labour List:
    Diane Abbott
    Ronnie Campbell
    Katy Clark
    Michael Connarty
    Jeremy Corbyn
    Kelvin Hopkins
    Glenda Jackson
    John McDonnell
    George Mudie
    Linda Riordan
    Denis Skinner
    Tom Watson
    Mike Wood.
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    The tension... *imagines Cleggers and Farage limbering up behind the scenes*
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    In all seriousness I will be chatting to the barmaid all night, but also, the No movement really doesn't seem to have a clue. We want to remain but not really sure why.
    Yes is coherent.
    Yes is correct, I would be voting yes if I lived up here. Different culture, different climate, different legal system, different hopes. The only reason yes hasn't walked this is fear. And that is dissipating imho
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    Oh... Farage is just chatting with his trainers round a table. Bit disappointed.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    The tension mounts
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699

    AveryLP said:

    currystar said:

    Funny how Cameron's poll slide, from commanding majority to hung Parliament, dates precisely from the moment in 2009 when he confirmed that there would be no referendum on ratification.

    Actually I don't think that was the main factor, the main factor was Osborne (quite rightly) telling the truth about the public finances, widely regarded at the time as dangerously honest:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8292680.stm

    This is a later article but explores the point in more detail:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/georgeosborne/9605607/George-Osbornes-honesty-on-cuts-cost-Conservatives-a-majority-say-advisers.html

    Having said that, I accept that Cameron and Hague made a complete hash of explaining what their position would be once ratification had taken place, and I think that would have lost them credibility. I went to a dinner shortly after the election where I was able to ask Hague why they had not been clear about what the policy would be if the treaty was ratified; to be honest his answer wasn't very convincing.
    The main reason the tories didn't win an outright majority was the expenses scandal, look at their polling figures after this story broke.
    More decisive was widespread abuse of postal votes

    A fact Mark Senior knows well but is curiously unprepared to admit in public.
    What a strange comment , I have been pointing out abuse of postal voting by the Conservatives for many years .
    Ironic post of the day, bearing in mind you always seem to miss some of the disgusting deeds that occur when it relates to the Liberal Democrats but are only too happy to point it out when something occurs relating to other parties.
    You mean like you presuming guilt when Lib Dems are not charged with anything and completely ignoring when one of your own is under going a trial for homosexual rape .
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    And the Tele. And live on BBC and Sky. And LBC link here - WITH A COUNTDOWN: http://www.lbc.co.uk/watch-lbc-leaders-debate-live---26th-march-87667
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    *takes handful of Kalms*
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    The Lib Dems have sent out this email to their supporters. They are trying to rig the "worm"!

    In just a few minutes, Nick is going to go on stage and take on Nigel Farage. We’re here at HQ ready to make sure we win tonight’s twitter battle, and I need your help.

    Here’s three things you can do:

    1) Follow and retweet the @LibDems and @LibDemPress accounts

    2) Make sure you use the #NickVNigel hashtag

    3) Watch the debate live on our website

    LBC are running a “Twitter worm” which tracks who is winning the twitter battle. Nick needs your help to come out on top, so lets get tweeting!

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/2014/mar/26/nigel-farage-vs-nick-clegg-the-debate-for-europe-live#block-5333200de4b095031dc616c2

  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,928
    I hope Clegg has learned from the Obama McCain debate where McCain struggled to hide his contempt for Obama. Clegg could ignore Farage and speak to the audience but I think he'd be better to deal with him directly rather than pretend he's not there. I'd take the view that Farage isn't mad or bad, just wrong.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    I'm thinking the winner of the debate will be Nigel Clegg by a knock-out !!

    Or something like that ....
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Farage reckons he hasn't trained for this debate at all and is just going to speak honestly what he feels... a wise move?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,461


    I know you believe 'no' would have won a post-treaty referendum (which I disagree with for the reasons I've given passim). But if I'm right and the referendum lost, then do you agree that it would have hugely weakened any PM's hand in future negotiations?

    It's one heck of a gamble over something that is nowhere near your main aim. It would have been the wrong referendum.

    That is clearly false because as it stands Cameron could not be in a weaker position for any negotiations. He has already stated very clearly that he will not countenance the UK leaving the EU and has also failed utterly to define what he wants out of any negotiations whilst leaving the timescale for talks so short that everyone knows he is not serious.

    To date Cameron's achievements with regard to our relationship with the EU have been zero. His 'not letting matters lie' position has proved as false as his Cast Iron Pledge. No significant renegotiation or restoration of powers to the UK will be achieved as long as Cameron is in power because his heart is not in it and the rest of the EU knows it. .
    "That is clearly false"

    No, it isn't. You *wish* it was false. A lost referendum on an already-ratified Lisbon treaty would have been a disaster for those wanting to leave Europe.

    Anyway, I'm the sort of voter you should be trying to persuade. Of all the BOOers (I wish there was a better term as UKIPers does not cover it) on here you seem the most prepared for a referendum.

    Develop an argument about what leaving the EU would mean for Britain, and one that does not denigrate Johnny Foreigner. What does it mean for politics? What does it mean for trade? What would have to be negotiated before we leave? Which organisations and agreements would we want to remain part of? Develop reports showing the pros - and cons - of leaving. Say how you will mitigate the effects of the cons, and accentuate the advantages of the pros.

    Sadly, many BOOers appear too frightened of someone's skin colour or accent to answer these questions. You're better than that, so I'm looking at you for answers.

    Persuade me.
  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    Clegg doing fantastically well in the debate, crushing Farage.

    *innocent face*
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Wonder whether Nick Ferrari was picked as ref because his name sounds like a cross between the two?!
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Maybe this will be one of those black swan moments, Clegg and Farage come on stage to pounding techno and embrace in a passionate clinch. Farage renouncing euro scepticism and Clegg announcing all Lib Dems are now required to be beet root faced toffs that voted for Nicholas Fairbairn to be world emporer.
    It's like watching the adventures of the idiot Waltons rather than John Boy, the drunk dad or the fit one
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Farage looks a bit stiff ....
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    isam said:

    Farage reckons he hasn't trained for this debate at all and is just going to speak honestly what he feels... a wise move?

    He may be fibbing ...

  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    someone called "Martin Day" on twitter claiming he's put £11 grand on Farage to win the debate...

    The name sounds familiar, from PB of yesteryear?
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    RodCrosby said:

    someone called "Martin Day" on twitter claiming he's put £11 grand on Farage to win the debate...

    The name sounds familiar, from PB of yesteryear?

    Lol, I'd forgotten about him. Still nutty as a fruitcake then
  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    RodCrosby said:

    someone called "Martin Day" on twitter claiming he's put £11 grand on Farage to win the debate...

    The name sounds familiar, from PB of yesteryear?

    Is that £11,000 or £11 put on in grand style, with a flourish and extravagant expression?
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    RodCrosby said:

    someone called "Martin Day" on twitter claiming he's put £11 grand on Farage to win the debate...

    The name sounds familiar, from PB of yesteryear?

    When he was posting on here , he did not have £ 1 to his name let alone £ 11,000`
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Both start ok from their viewpoint.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    AveryLP said:

    currystar said:

    Funny how Cameron's poll slide, from commanding majority to hung Parliament, dates precisely from the moment in 2009 when he confirmed that there would be no referendum on ratification.

    Actually I don't think that was the main factor, the main factor was Osborne (quite rightly) telling the truth about the public finances, widely regarded at the time as dangerously honest:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8292680.stm

    This is a later article but explores the point in more detail:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/georgeosborne/9605607/George-Osbornes-honesty-on-cuts-cost-Conservatives-a-majority-say-advisers.html

    Having said that, I accept that Cameron and Hague made a complete hash of explaining what their position would be once ratification had taken place, and I think that would have lost them credibility. I went to a dinner shortly after the election where I was able to ask Hague why they had not been clear about what the policy would be if the treaty was ratified; to be honest his answer wasn't very convincing.
    The main reason the tories didn't win an outright majority was the expenses scandal, look at their polling figures after this story broke.
    More decisive was widespread abuse of postal votes

    A fact Mark Senior knows well but is curiously unprepared to admit in public.
    What a strange comment , I have been pointing out abuse of postal voting by the Conservatives for many years .
    Ironic post of the day, bearing in mind you always seem to miss some of the disgusting deeds that occur when it relates to the Liberal Democrats but are only too happy to point it out when something occurs relating to other parties.
    You mean like you presuming guilt when Lib Dems are not charged with anything and completely ignoring when one of your own is under going a trial for homosexual rape .
    Just google "Lib Dem charged" and then tell me over the last 10 yrs how many of these cases have you been the first to highlight on PB, Just one will do.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Clegg wins round one on points.
  • nestreetnestreet Posts: 8
    AveryLP said:

    Clegg wins round one on points.

    That's debatable ;)
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited March 2014
    Is that him?

    @JayneSeckerSky @KayBurley @adamboultonSKY Nigel will batter Nick.I hope so because I've just wagered £11,000 to win £8,000 on just that !

    — Martin Day (@nitramyad) March 26, 2014
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    Worm plunge.
  • GrandioseGrandiose Posts: 2,323
    Are there any of those online live opinion tracker things tonight?
  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    Both of them looking out at audience at all times rather than at the other (Farage has glanced at Clegg a time or two, and turned that way while still looking out at audience).

    I assume it's a tactic, iirc in American debates they tend to look at each other much more.
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    Grandiose said:

    Are there any of those online live opinion tracker things tonight?

    Yes on the LBC site (see below). Nick's worm just topped itself.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,376
    RodCrosby said:

    someone called "Martin Day" on twitter claiming he's put £11 grand on Farage to win the debate...

    The name sounds familiar, from PB of yesteryear?

    Got himself arrested during a fracas between Con and Lab supporters during the last election I think, LOL.

  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    nestreet said:

    AveryLP said:

    Clegg wins round one on points.

    That's debatable ;)
    Clegg's debating style is better suited to the intimacy of tv debate. He has a reassuring camera side manner.

    Farage speaks too fast and inflects too much. He loses meaning by having a wider amplitude.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    edited March 2014
    I think Lincoln and Douglas are lying peacefully in their graves.
  • nestreetnestreet Posts: 8
    edited March 2014
    AveryLP said:

    nestreet said:

    AveryLP said:

    Clegg wins round one on points.

    I agree with that.

    That's debatable ;)
    Clegg's debating style is better suited to the intimacy of tv debate. He has a reassuring camera side manner.

    Farage speaks too fast and inflects too much. He loses meaning by having a wider amplitude.
    I agree with you on that.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,376
    Farage doing well, IMO.

    *Team Nige*
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited March 2014
    GIN1138 said:

    RodCrosby said:

    someone called "Martin Day" on twitter claiming he's put £11 grand on Farage to win the debate...

    The name sounds familiar, from PB of yesteryear?

    Got himself arrested during a fracas between Con and Lab supporters during the last election I think, LOL.

    That was Martin Coxall!

    For alleged assault while impersonating John Prescott without warrant or licence.

  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,779
    Clegg weak on this issue, it has to be said.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,779
    Farage utterly right on the unequalness nature of immigration
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Clegg is being flattened by Farage on LBC now. a superb performance by Nigel.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,928
    I wonder if at the election next year we get a Prime ministerial debate between Cameron and Miliband on BBC and Sky, Channel 4 might do an alternative PM's debate with these two? Is there enough chemistry to make it worthwhile?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,376
    edited March 2014
    AveryLP said:

    GIN1138 said:

    RodCrosby said:

    someone called "Martin Day" on twitter claiming he's put £11 grand on Farage to win the debate...

    The name sounds familiar, from PB of yesteryear?

    Got himself arrested during a fracas between Con and Lab supporters during the last election I think, LOL.

    That was Martin Coxall!

    For alleged assault while impersonating John Prescott without warrant or licence.

    I get all these Martin's mixed up.


    I do remember that emotions were running high on here during the election - JackW had to have his medication doubled!
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    I like this format (thus far).
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    Garage winning here. 29 million line a point back to Clegg.
    Garage ahead on points though
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,928
    RodCrosby said:

    Is that him?

    @JayneSeckerSky @KayBurley @adamboultonSKY Nigel will batter Nick.I hope so because I've just wagered £11,000 to win £8,000 on just that !

    — Martin Day (@nitramyad) March 26, 2014

    Could be. He never rated Nick Clegg very much I seem to remember..........
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,779
    Farage is plummling clegg on the free movement of people. Clegg trying to lecture too much.
  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915
    RodCrosby said:

    Is that him?

    @JayneSeckerSky @KayBurley @adamboultonSKY Nigel will batter Nick.I hope so because I've just wagered £11,000 to win £8,000 on just that !

    — Martin Day (@nitramyad) March 26, 2014

    I could be wrong but I don't believe this is the "Martin Day" who used to be on PB. As far as I know Andrew doesn't have any children. He suffered from a serious mental breakdown which almost claimed his life and when he was last in contact had moved to another part of the country to live with his father.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624


    So the question then is simply do we want our terms altered in any way? If so, we vote to repeal Lisbon. If not then you vote to leave it on the books.

    Can I give an analogy: you are a member of a golf club. To change the rules of the golf club, you need the unanimous approval of all the members. There is a proposal to change the rules: it is passed unanimously.

    One member changes his mind.

    The rules of the club cannot change. Because to do so requires the unanimous support of all the members.

    We can negotiate for a better deal in Europe. We can work with our increasingly EU-project-sceptic fellow governments for this.

    However, we cannot demand the rules change just for us, referendum or no referendum, because any rule change requires the agreement of all members of the EU.

    There will not be a new treaty - absent another Eurozone crisis - until 2022/3. This means that all Cameron can come home with is some piece of paper, some agreement with Mrs Merkel, M Hollande, and a few other leaders. He cannot offer fundamental change to the rules until a new treaty is forged. That is simply not going to happen for another eight or so years, because every member of our hypothetical golf club gets to argue their case for changes they want (and which they've promised their own electorates).

    If we don't like this process, we can leave the EU.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,461

    David Cameron, 26th May 2009:

    "We will therefore hold a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty, pass a law requiring a referendum to approve any further transfers of power to the EU, negotiate the return of powers, and require far more detailed scrutiny in Parliament of EU legislation, regulation and spending."

    http://www.europeanfoundation.org/my_weblog/2009/05/fixing-broken-politics.html

    That is about 10-months after Lisbon was ratified by the UK government and a few months before he changed his mind.

    But the treaty came into force after that time, on the 1st December 2009. Ireland's second referendum was in October, well after Cameron spoke.

    If Ireland had voted no, the treaty would still have been in play in May 2010.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    I don't think anyone is going to be changing their mind this evening :-)
  • MikeK said:

    Clegg is being flattened by Farage on LBC now. a superb performance by Nigel.

    now that's balanced reporting ...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    45000 vs 2%. Classic juxtaposition
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Nick looks like a guy sincerely telling his girlfriend that he will never cheat again for the second time.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,928
    rcs1000 said:

    I don't think anyone is going to be changing their mind this evening :-)

    I still hate them both.

  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549

    I think Lincoln and Douglas are lying peacefully in their graves.

    Different styles for a different format and a different era.

    But vaguely relevant.

    https://xkcd.com/635/
  • I think Ed is doing very well - he's not been weird or sniffed anyone at all so far...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624

    rcs1000 said:

    I don't think anyone is going to be changing their mind this evening :-)

    I still hate them both.

    :-)
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Farage using my argument that we discriminate against the rest of the world by allowing EU immigrants to come whatever, while requiring permits etc from everyone else in the world

    Well said Nige!
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    MikeK said:

    Clegg is being flattened by Farage on LBC now. a superb performance by Nigel.

    now that's balanced reporting ...
    One can't be balanced where Cleggover is concerned.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Both crap here to be honest..
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,779
    Farage hammers clegg again on the euro arguement
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805

    Nick looks like a guy sincerely telling his girlfriend that he will never cheat again for the second time.

    Someone needs to tell him to stop drifting into that pleading body language. (And saying 'drawbridge'). I find body language fascinating.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Nick looks like a guy sincerely telling his girlfriend that he will never cheat again for the second time.

    haha
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    Can't see many minds being changed by this, but it has the potential to cement UKIP's support. I'd say the big loser so far is Mr Cameron. Farage is being given free rein to grab the Eurosceptic vote.
  • saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245
    MikeK said:

    Clegg is being flattened by Farage on LBC now. a superb performance by Nigel.

    Brilliant! You are a spoof aren't you? Not serious, just an excellent spoof, wonderful stuff.

  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    The Guardian rolling blog has Farage winning it so far.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    I'm not watching, it'll mostly be preaching to the converted.
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    It's flatlined on LBC. Crash team!
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,779

    Can't see many minds being changed by this, but it has the potential to cement UKIP's support. I'd say the big loser so far is Mr Cameron. Farage is being given free rein to grab the Eurosceptic vote.

    I agree Farage is looking pretty good here.

    How much this impacts upon anything is another matter given the audience size.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    @Easterross

    what's a few fantasy kids alongside a fantasy bet, for someone who is "ill"?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,461
    Did Farage just say that Ford had moved the Southampton plant to Turkey, and then a few seconds later say it moved to Poland?

    These strange countries are all the same, aren't they?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    Better performance from Farage than Clegg. But both preaching to their own choirs.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Nick drops the 3 mil jobs bomb half hour in
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Can't see many minds being changed by this, but it has the potential to cement UKIP's support. I'd say the big loser so far is Mr Cameron. Farage is being given free rein to grab the Eurosceptic vote.

    Are you Anthony King ?
  • The argument isn't very broad is it - how on earth do they debate this again.

    Jobs, immigration - good/bad in/out.

    Done.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,880
    Some quite effective points by Clegg in the debate on the benefits to jobs of EU membership
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,461
    The worm should be cut in two by a shovel.

    It's hideous.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Clegg sounding reasonable next to the tiresome monomaniac pub bore. A calm and reassring presence with the gravity of government. Farage beginning to turn beetroot faced.


    Just evening up the comments ;-)
  • Stuart_DicksonStuart_Dickson Posts: 3,557

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    Anorak said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    I wonder how many people would suddenly change their views on EU membership in/out if their employers point out how much of their sales and exports (and therefore jobs) are dependent on Britain's membership of the EU. This problem will become a live issue for thousands of Scots after 19th September if their employers have to begin assessing the effect of Scotland being outside the EU and wanting in.

    Dear Dear Easterross , not that old canard, we will still be in the EU and by the time we have finalised negotiations and departed the union , we will still be in the EU.
    malc I agree with that, but what none of the Nats will face up to is the terms of membership will have changed and not to Scotland's benefit. Fisheries, oil, Euro, rebates etc. , that's the price of rejoining.
    Alan, Hopefully we will not get completely rogered, we can always tell them to F off if we do not like it.
    "Hopefully we will not get completely rogered"

    That's the plan is it? Hope and moonshine? Best of luck with that.
    You are obviously a bit dense and misinterpreted my witty riposte to Alan, the Scottish Government are not stupid and will obviously negotiate hard in the country's best interests. As I clearly said if the EU are not reasonable then we can tell them where to stick it. No-one can know in advance what the positions will be but it would not be surprising if they were light on Scotland to tweak London's tail.
    However, it should also be remembered that EWNI will also be in negotiations at the same time to reenter the EU, or to adjust to its new, but continuing, place in the EU (on precisely the same logic as Scotland, depending on which side of that part of the indy debate one tends to be). I for one don't believe that the EU will automatically roll over and allow EWNI to claim to be the sole continuing state without at least a poke in the biceps and a hard stare.

    I think you'll be surprised! The rUK will not "claim" anything, it will be automatically recognised as the continuing member state.

    The naivety is breathtaking.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    No updates on the Telegraph live blog since the debate started at 7PM.
    Carola said:

    It's flatlined on LBC. Crash team!
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    edited March 2014

    Can't see many minds being changed by this, but it has the potential to cement UKIP's support. I'd say the big loser so far is Mr Cameron. Farage is being given free rein to grab the Eurosceptic vote.

    I agree Farage is looking pretty good here.

    How much this impacts upon anything is another matter given the audience size.

    If it means UKIP gets 10% plus in next year's GE it will be a very big deal indeed. Farage is being given free rein to make a case huge numbers of Tory activists would like to be making.

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Lord Ashcroft ‏@LordAshcroft 1m

    Farage will win votes tonight.....
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    The worm should be cut in two by a shovel.

    It's hideous.
    I can't see the worm.

    All I get is a photo of Nigel.

    Are they one and the same?
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    Clegg getting better. He's finding his *passion*. Farage started with his and now he's getting a bit knackered.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    LOL

    Cleggy using the too wee too poor arguments. How long until it's too stupid ?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Did Farage just say that Ford had moved the Southampton plant to Turkey, and then a few seconds later say it moved to Poland?

    These strange countries are all the same, aren't they?

    No. Ferrari said Turkey, and Farage said Poland
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    Anorak said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    I wonder how many people would suddenly change their views on EU membership in/out if their employers point out how much of their sales and exports (and therefore jobs) are dependent on Britain's membership of the EU. This problem will become a live issue for thousands of Scots after 19th September if their employers have to begin assessing the effect of Scotland being outside the EU and wanting in.

    Dear Dear Easterross , not that old canard, we will still be in the EU and by the time we have finalised negotiations and departed the union , we will still be in the EU.
    malc I agree with that, but what none of the Nats will face up to is the terms of membership will have changed and not to Scotland's benefit. Fisheries, oil, Euro, rebates etc. , that's the price of rejoining.
    Alan, Hopefully we will not get completely rogered, we can always tell them to F off if we do not like it.
    "Hopefully we will not get completely rogered"

    That's the plan is it? Hope and moonshine? Best of luck with that.
    You are obviously a bit dense and misinterpreted my witty riposte to Alan, the Scottish Government are not stupid and will obviously negotiate hard in the country's best interests. As I clearly said if the EU are not reasonable then we can tell them where to stick it. No-one can know in advance what the positions will be but it would not be surprising if they were light on Scotland to tweak London's tail.
    However, it should also be remembered that EWNI will also be in negotiations at the same time to reenter the EU, or to adjust to its new, but continuing, place in the EU (on precisely the same logic as Scotland, depending on which side of that part of the indy debate one tends to be). I for one don't believe that the EU will automatically roll over and allow EWNI to claim to be the sole continuing state without at least a poke in the biceps and a hard stare.

    I think you'll be surprised! The rUK will not "claim" anything, it will be automatically recognised as the continuing member state.

    The naivety is breathtaking.

    Your knowledge of international law is clearly non-existent.

  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,928

    Nick looks like a guy sincerely telling his girlfriend that he will never cheat again for the second time.

    We all know he can't resist a bit of Tory.

  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    edited March 2014
    AveryLP said:

    The worm should be cut in two by a shovel.

    It's hideous.
    I can't see the worm.

    All I get is a photo of Nigel.

    Are they one and the same?
    Lol. The LBC worm's snuffed it. Must be all those LDs and Ukippers banging away.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    edited March 2014
    No matter what Clegg says or does in this debate, I keep on thinking of his pledge not to increase student fees.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    Anorak said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    I wonder how many people would suddenly change their views on EU membership in/out if their employers point out how much of their sales and exports (and therefore jobs) are dependent on Britain's membership of the EU. This problem will become a live issue for thousands of Scots after 19th September if their employers have to begin assessing the effect of Scotland being outside the EU and wanting in.

    Dear Dear Easterross , not that old canard, we will still be in the EU and by the time we have finalised negotiations and departed the union , we will still be in the EU.
    malc I agree with that, but what none of the Nats will face up to is the terms of membership will have changed and not to Scotland's benefit. Fisheries, oil, Euro, rebates etc. , that's the price of rejoining.
    Alan, Hopefully we will not get completely rogered, we can always tell them to F off if we do not like it.
    "Hopefully we will not get completely rogered"

    That's the plan is it? Hope and moonshine? Best of luck with that.
    You are obviously a bit dense and misinterpreted my witty riposte to Alan, the Scottish Government are not stupid and will obviously negotiate hard in the country's best interests. As I clearly said if the EU are not reasonable then we can tell them where to stick it. No-one can know in advance what the positions will be but it would not be surprising if they were light on Scotland to tweak London's tail.
    However, it should also be remembered that EWNI will also be in negotiations at the same time to reenter the EU, or to adjust to its new, but continuing, place in the EU (on precisely the same logic as Scotland, depending on which side of that part of the indy debate one tends to be). I for one don't believe that the EU will automatically roll over and allow EWNI to claim to be the sole continuing state without at least a poke in the biceps and a hard stare.

    I think you'll be surprised! The rUK will not "claim" anything, it will be automatically recognised as the continuing member state.

    The naivety is breathtaking.

    Your knowledge of international law is clearly non-existent.

    Up there with his knowledge of "polling" then.....

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @paulwaugh
    First proper gaffe? Did Farage just blunder by appearing to trash the UK car industry? #LBCdebate

    @nicholaswatt
    Has @Nigel_Farage just said that EU cars from outside UK are better than those built in UK?


  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    @AlanBrooke

    "You're bonkers Llama."

    I thought I'd have an early evening snort and now its all over the keyboard! You have form for that Mr. Brooke, I may have to think about starting to charge you for new keyboards.

    As for Schleswig-Holstein, as Lord Palmerston explained, only three people understood the question, one (the Prince-Consort) was dead, one had gone mad thinking about it and Palmerston himself who had forgotten it. I, therefore, suspect that Mr. Charles was not being entirely serious when he mentioned it as a long term English policy aim. (Note how he cunningly changes the real English policy aim though, no dominant power in Europe becomes "never let one country control the entire of the continental Channel coast" - typical banker).

    I'd disagree. So many of our wars with Spain were about preventing them dominating France (at the time they controlled the Spanish Netherlands), the wars with the Sun King were about Wallonia and Flanders, and the whole reason Belgium was set up was to create obstacles to France. Germany was really a 20th century thing
This discussion has been closed.