politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » A closer look at one of tonight’s local council by elections
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Theres a lot of personal animosity in how it's all going down, hes not loved. Hes tricky dicky (Kissinger said can you imagine what this man could have achieved if hed ever been loved?)kle4 said:
As someone who has long sought the office he now holds and has plotted to achieve it so intensely, making so many promises to do so, it's not exactly that I feel any sympathy for him, or that it is necessarily unseemly. However, not everything Boris does, even when bad, is the same level of bad. Even with Trump he's not doing something stupid and outrageous every time he opens his mouth. For me it rather undermines the impact of the really bad stuff Boris may say or do, because I get fatigued from being ourtaged over him saying big girls blouse or something.dyedwoolie said:
There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisiskle4 said:
Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.RobD said:.
Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.kle4 said:
The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.CarlottaVance said:0 -
A good comment. There's no need to over indulge in bitterness toward (new) opponents and triumphalism at one's own faction being in the ascendency.Philip_Thompson said:
Its right for MPs to back Brexit "deal or no deal" but that doesn't make Big_G a Lib Dem.HYUFD said:
They can remain members if they wish but no Cummings is right we cannot have Tory MPs standing again as Tory candidates while refusing to back Brexit Deal or No Deal as the vast majority of Tory members and voters now want in every poll.Philip_Thompson said:
HYUFD you are an obsessive and everything that is unattractive and wrong with modern politics.HYUFD said:
If you refuse to respect the Brexit vote and Leave Deal or No Deal then sadly BigG you are now a LD, not a conservativeBig_G_NorthWales said:FPT
HYUFD said:
» show previous quotes
You have already gone from the Tory Party, your choice but the party itself is now fully behind Brexit Deal or No Deal and with Boris in the war with the diehard Remainers and Corbyn
........................................................................................
I am saddened HYUFD that you have transformed from a sensible conservative with an obsession with polls to a deluded disciple of a cult that is trashing everything you once stood for
I am a one nation conservative, not a Farage tribute act, and support the 100 conservatives/or sacked conservatives who I hope rebel in a block and create their own movement, and by the way, see the end to this disastrous brexit earthquake and engineer either a soft brexit or even remain
I am bitterly upset at what is happening but inthe end decency will prevail as we start to slowly heal the wounds both in the UK and the EU and restore international friendships and our reputation.
I no longer want to be associated with those who would create division and hatred against so many here and abroad
And I even accept that could be under Corbyn, but if it is, Boris, the ERG and yourself are all responsible for the economic armagedon that would follow him in office
We as a Tory party need voters like Big_G and others. Hopefully by end of October Brexit can be behind us and there would be 4.5 years more where we would agree on more than just Brexit.
If Boris won a narrow majority of say 10 and those 21 Tory rebels were elected again as Tory MPs he could not get Brexit Deal or No Deal through despite a winning majority based on a manifesto to do so.
You may not like it, it may be brutal but that is where we are now, diehard Remainers will stop at nothing to block Brexit and the Tory Party must be prepared to respond in kind to deliver Brexit
At worst it would make him politically homeless, as I was while May was PM.0 -
Those are the sentiments of Corbyn, Milne and Lansmann.HYUFD said:
They can remain members if they wish but no Cummings is right we cannot have Tory MPs standing again as Tory candidates while refusing to back Brexit Deal or No Deal as the vast majority of Tory members and voters now want in every poll.Philip_Thompson said:
HYUFD you are an obsessive and everything that is unattractive and wrong with modern politics.HYUFD said:
If you refuse to respect the Brexit vote and Leave Deal or No Deal then sadly BigG you are now a LD, not a conservativeBig_G_NorthWales said:FPT
HYUFD said:
» show previous quotes
You have already gone from the Tory Party, your choice but the party itself is now fully behind Brexit Deal or No Deal and with Boris in the war with the diehard Remainers and Corbyn
........................................................................................
I am saddened HYUFD that you have transformed from a sensible conservative with an obsession with polls to a deluded disciple of a cult that is trashing everything you once stood for
I am a one nation conservative, not a Farage tribute act, and support the 100 conservatives/or sacked conservatives who I hope rebel in a block and create their own movement, and by the way, see the end to this disastrous brexit earthquake and engineer either a soft brexit or even remain
I am bitterly upset at what is happening but inthe end decency will prevail as we start to slowly heal the wounds both in the UK and the EU and restore international friendships and our reputation.
I no longer want to be associated with those who would create division and hatred against so many here and abroad
And I even accept that could be under Corbyn, but if it is, Boris, the ERG and yourself are all responsible for the economic armagedon that would follow him in office
We as a Tory party need voters like Big_G and others. Hopefully by end of October Brexit can be behind us and there would be 4.5 years more where we would agree on more than just Brexit.
If Boris won a narrow majority of say 10 and those 21 Tory rebels were elected again as Tory MPs he could not get Brexit Deal or No Deal through despite a winning majority based on a manifesto to do so.
You may not like it, it may be brutal but that is where we are now, diehard Remainers will stop at nothing to block Brexit and the Tory Party must be prepared to respond in kind to deliver Brexit0 -
Precisely.dyedwoolie said:
Ridiculous. Plenty of speeches get made in the presence of nurses etc, or in front of the army in Afghanistan or etc etcCarlottaVance said:
Labour politician in doesn't like Boris shocker.0 -
A billion a month for the extension ?0
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You know that was in the context of the 29th March and you insult my intelligence about their vote in the no deal bill.HYUFD said:
They also voted to extend over Brexit on October 31stBig_G_NorthWales said:
You are not the conservative. I am with Ken Clarke, Rory Stewart and it looks possibly Amber Rudd all of whom voted for the WDA you once were in favour ofHYUFD said:
If you refuse to respect the Brexit vote and Leave Deal or No Deal then sadly BigG you are now a LD, not a conservativeBig_G_NorthWales said:FPT
HYUFD said:
» show previous quotes
You have already gone from the Tory Party, your choice but the party itself is now fully behind Brexit Deal or No Deal and with Boris in the war with the diehard Remainers and Corbyn
........................................................................................
I am saddened HYUFD that you have transformed from a sensible conservative with an obsession with polls to a deluded disciple of a cult that is trashing everything you once stood for
I am a one nation conservative, not a Farage tribute act, and support the 100 conservatives/or sacked conservatives who I hope rebel in a block and create their own movement, and by the way, see the end to this disastrous brexit earthquake and engineer either a soft brexit or even remain
I am bitterly upset at what is happening but inthe end decency will prevail as we start to slowly heal the wounds both in the UK and the EU and restore international friendships and our reputation.
I no longer want to be associated with those who would create division and hatred against so many here and abroad
And I even accept that could be under Corbyn, but if it is, Boris, the ERG and yourself are all responsible for the economic armagedon that would follow him in office
They would not have been sacked by the deranged Cummings if they had voted for the bill0 -
So I am confused, is Boris saying he won't follow the law after all if one demanding an extension request comes in? What is the plan for the next step here? As strong words alone are not one.0
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Pity is the emotion that politicians fear most. Not that Boris Johnson deserves any.dyedwoolie said:
There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisiskle4 said:
Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.RobD said:.
Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.kle4 said:
The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.CarlottaVance said:0 -
There will undoubtedly be short-term employment visas if you were so inclined, although it will not be as easy as arriving without any plans. The number of people who do that sort of thing must be vanishingly small, however.DougSeal said:
You can't stay more than a few days or a couple of weeks if you can't pay your way by working, for example, in a bar as I did. It's a nothing announcement and just reinforces the fact that, as individuals, we are losing so many rights with this fiasco. It won't persuade anyone who thinks Brexit is a terrible idea otherwise. And if that was not the purpose of the announcement then what was the purpose of the announcement?RobD said:
The short term visa will likely be three-six months as it is for a lot of other tourist visas. It most certainly won't be "days".DougSeal said:
This is not freedom of movement. It means we may be able to visit for "short stays" (how short?) without a visa. We will be able to go to France for days rather than weeks. When I was younger I worked in France for a ski season. I couldn't do that now. This is such small beer.HYUFD said:
As for the announcement, it confirms that visa-free visits will still be possible. That's probably of interest to quite a few people.0 -
Boris and his minders?HYUFD said:0 -
Yes.TGOHF said:A billion a month for the extension ?
As well as disrupting businesses planning and stockpiling while forcing them to do it again in full knowledge that nothing will change by January with Christmas in the middle.
Its pathetic. And those suggesting we do this to the country to try and make a Tory PM squirm are despicable and will be seen through by the sane members of the public who reject this insanity.0 -
His words on 'someone else trying to keep us in after Oct 31) strongly suggest he will quit the day he is supposed to request itkle4 said:So I am confused, is Boris saying he won't follow the law after all if one demanding an extension request comes in? What is the plan for the next step here? As strong words alone are not one.
Which, if he does it, wins the election. Man of his word on Brexit = votes0 -
Boris treated May poorly, plotted, undermined her and killed her premiership.AlastairMeeks said:
Pity is the emotion that politicians fear most. Not that Boris Johnson deserves any.dyedwoolie said:
There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisiskle4 said:
Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.RobD said:.
Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.kle4 said:
The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.CarlottaVance said:
This is karma.0 -
IIRC it’s 90 days in 180 - just like US citizens for example.DougSeal said:
This is not freedom of movement. It means we may be able to visit for "short stays" (how short?) without a visa. We will be able to go to France for days rather than weeks. When I was younger I worked in France for a ski season. I couldn't do that now. This is such small beer.HYUFD said:0 -
He'll really abandon his position as PM after less than 3 months? I'm surprised his ego could take that, but if he sees political survival for the party as requiring utter rejection of any extension, I guess that would be the path.dyedwoolie said:
His words on 'someone else trying to keep us in after Oct 31) strongly suggest he will quit the day he is supposed to request itkle4 said:So I am confused, is Boris saying he won't follow the law after all if one demanding an extension request comes in? What is the plan for the next step here? As strong words alone are not one.
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They knew there was a three-line-whip and what the consequences were. It isn't as if Boris removed the whip without warning that would be the consequences they were told it was a confidence vote and they made their choice.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You know that was in the context of the 29th March and you insult my intelligence about their vote in the no deal bill.HYUFD said:
They also voted to extend over Brexit on October 31stBig_G_NorthWales said:
You are not the conservative. I am with Ken Clarke, Rory Stewart and it looks possibly Amber Rudd all of whom voted for the WDA you once were in favour ofHYUFD said:
If you refuse to respect the Brexit vote and Leave Deal or No Deal then sadly BigG you are now a LD, not a conservativeBig_G_NorthWales said:FPT
HYUFD said:
» show previous quotes
You have already gone from the Tory Party, your choice but the party itself is now fully behind Brexit Deal or No Deal and with Boris in the war with the diehard Remainers and Corbyn
........................................................................................
I am saddened HYUFD that you have transformed from a sensible conservative with an obsession with polls to a deluded disciple of a cult that is trashing everything you once stood for
I am a one nation conservative, not a Farage tribute act, and support the 100 conservatives/or sacked conservatives who I hope rebel in a block and create their own movement, and by the way, see the end to this disastrous brexit earthquake and engineer either a soft brexit or even remain
I am bitterly upset at what is happening but inthe end decency will prevail as we start to slowly heal the wounds both in the UK and the EU and restore international friendships and our reputation.
I no longer want to be associated with those who would create division and hatred against so many here and abroad
And I even accept that could be under Corbyn, but if it is, Boris, the ERG and yourself are all responsible for the economic armagedon that would follow him in office
They would not have been sacked by the deranged Cummings if they had voted for the bill
They betrayed the party worse than "the bastards" did in 1993.0 -
Perspective is such a rare blessing....HYUFD said:1 -
I'm guessing it would be in an election campaign and hed figure he would be back in a few weeks, he will stay as Tory leaderkle4 said:
He'll really abandon his position as PM after less than 3 months? I'm surprised his ego could take that, but if he sees political survival for the party as requiring utter rejection of any extension, I guess that would be the path.dyedwoolie said:
His words on 'someone else trying to keep us in after Oct 31) strongly suggest he will quit the day he is supposed to request itkle4 said:So I am confused, is Boris saying he won't follow the law after all if one demanding an extension request comes in? What is the plan for the next step here? As strong words alone are not one.
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Worth noting with all your sympathy for Ken Clarke that Ken Clarke was a member of John Major's Cabinet in 1993 when the decision was made to make Maastricht a confidence motion.
Ken Clarke presumably agreed with removing the whip from MPs who vote the 'wrong' way against the party in Europe then - what's changed since? Why shouldn't Ken Clarke face the same sanction he was happy to see doled out to anyone who rebelled against Maastricht in 1993?0 -
But he still won’t vote for any deal, regardless of how “well” Boris does.HYUFD said:2 -
Boris is going to give Jezza the nuclear codes? Clearly he doesn't think he's a danger to national security.dyedwoolie said:
I'm guessing it would be in an election campaign and hed figure he would be back in a few weeks, he will stay as Tory leaderkle4 said:
He'll really abandon his position as PM after less than 3 months? I'm surprised his ego could take that, but if he sees political survival for the party as requiring utter rejection of any extension, I guess that would be the path.dyedwoolie said:
His words on 'someone else trying to keep us in after Oct 31) strongly suggest he will quit the day he is supposed to request itkle4 said:So I am confused, is Boris saying he won't follow the law after all if one demanding an extension request comes in? What is the plan for the next step here? As strong words alone are not one.
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I'm off for a challenging chess match against higher rated opposition, try and keep Boris in power till I get home later!0
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Indeed, my dear old HY! Lots and lots of Conservative voters are giving up on the party run by Mr Cumming, and falling in with the Lib Dems.HYUFD said:
If you refuse to respect the Brexit vote and Leave Deal or No Deal then sadly BigG you are now a LD, not a conservativeBig_G_NorthWales said:I am a one nation conservative, not a Farage tribute act, and support the 100 conservatives/or sacked conservatives who I hope rebel in a block and create their own movement, and by the way, see the end to this disastrous brexit earthquake and engineer either a soft brexit or even remain
I am bitterly upset at what is happening but in the end decency will prevail as we start to slowly heal the wounds both in the UK and the EU and restore international friendships and our reputation.
I no longer want to be associated with those who would create division and hatred against so many here and abroad
And I even accept that could be under Corbyn, but if it is, Boris, the ERG and yourself are all responsible for the economic armagedon that would follow him in office
After all, the Lib Dems are the only nation-wide party with any sense of economic responsibility. With concern for the environment and the future of the planet. With a profound respect for personal liberty and for fair play. All the things that moderate Conservatives used to say they stood for.
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No, that was Corbyn and diehard Remainers mainly, Boris voted for the Withdrawal Agreement at MV3.Jonathan said:
Boris treated May poorly, plotted, undermined her and killed her premiership.AlastairMeeks said:
Pity is the emotion that politicians fear most. Not that Boris Johnson deserves any.dyedwoolie said:
There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisiskle4 said:
Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.RobD said:.
Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.kle4 said:
The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.CarlottaVance said:
This is karma.
What actually is happening is Boris is building a Tory lead May lost ready to finally deliver the Leave vote the diehard Remainers in Parliament have refused to respect0 -
Being a Philadelphia lawyer I'm horrified by the complete misuse of police officers to provide a backdrop to what Boris himself described as the first day of the General Election. It's Banana Republic stuff. On the same day Rees-Mogg abused parliamentary privilege to smear a political opponent it just adds to the sense of complete unravelling of norms. Voting tactically for the Labour candidate in my Con held marginal ( anyone up for a vote swap ? ) while Jeremy Corbyn is leader is so grave a step I won't decide till polling day morning. However it does feel that this situation has ' gone nuclear ' and all there is left to do is order the counter strike from the bunker.0
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As the weekend polls will show Boris won't need any, Corbyn might though and I will have no sympathy for him certainlyAlastairMeeks said:
Pity is the emotion that politicians fear most. Not that Boris Johnson deserves any.dyedwoolie said:
There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisiskle4 said:
Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.RobD said:.
Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.kle4 said:
The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.CarlottaVance said:0 -
I thought Jezza had already made it clear he’d never use the UK’s nukes under any circumstances.Gallowgate said:
Boris is going to give Jezza the nuclear codes? Clearly he doesn't think he's a danger to national security.dyedwoolie said:
I'm guessing it would be in an election campaign and hed figure he would be back in a few weeks, he will stay as Tory leaderkle4 said:
He'll really abandon his position as PM after less than 3 months? I'm surprised his ego could take that, but if he sees political survival for the party as requiring utter rejection of any extension, I guess that would be the path.dyedwoolie said:
His words on 'someone else trying to keep us in after Oct 31) strongly suggest he will quit the day he is supposed to request itkle4 said:So I am confused, is Boris saying he won't follow the law after all if one demanding an extension request comes in? What is the plan for the next step here? As strong words alone are not one.
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Exactly. Is Boris going to surrender the nuclear deterrent?rpjs said:
I thought Jezza had already made it clear he’d never use the UK’s nukes under any circumstances.Gallowgate said:
Boris is going to give Jezza the nuclear codes? Clearly he doesn't think he's a danger to national security.dyedwoolie said:
I'm guessing it would be in an election campaign and hed figure he would be back in a few weeks, he will stay as Tory leaderkle4 said:
He'll really abandon his position as PM after less than 3 months? I'm surprised his ego could take that, but if he sees political survival for the party as requiring utter rejection of any extension, I guess that would be the path.dyedwoolie said:
His words on 'someone else trying to keep us in after Oct 31) strongly suggest he will quit the day he is supposed to request itkle4 said:So I am confused, is Boris saying he won't follow the law after all if one demanding an extension request comes in? What is the plan for the next step here? As strong words alone are not one.
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(Most) Conservative MPs knew they were taking a massive gamble when they elected Boris.
I wonder how they’re feeling today?0 -
I read it as being a bit contempuous..Philip_Thompson said:FFS why declare on 497/8 ?
I mean its a good target but get 1 more boundary and declare FFS.
/ocd obsessive.
'You think we need to care about these arbitrary numbers when we're so far ahead?'0 -
I am from the TM camp dedicated to public service and loyalty and I would have voted with the government even though I would have been conflicted. However to throw out 21 mps is a step too far and they should be reinstatedPhilip_Thompson said:
They knew there was a three-line-whip and what the consequences were. It isn't as if Boris removed the whip without warning that would be the consequences they were told it was a confidence vote and they made their choice.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You know that was in the context of the 29th March and you insult my intelligence about their vote in the no deal bill.HYUFD said:
They also voted to extend over Brexit on October 31stBig_G_NorthWales said:
You are not the conservative. I am with Ken Clarke, Rory Stewart and it looks possibly Amber Rudd all of whom voted for the WDA you once were in favour ofHYUFD said:
If you refuse to respect the Brexit vote and Leave Deal or No Deal then sadly BigG you are now a LD, not a conservativeBig_G_NorthWales said:FPT
HYUFD said:
» show previous quotes
You have already gone from the Tory Party, your choice but the party itself is now fully behind Brexit Deal or No Deal and with Boris in the war with the diehard Remainers and Corbyn
........................................................................................
I am saddened HYUFD that you have transformed from a sensible conservative with an obsession with polls to a deluded disciple of a cult that is trashing everything you once stood for
I am a one nation conservative, not a Farage tribute act, and support the 100 conservatives/or sacked conservatives who I hope rebel in a block and create their own movement, and by the way, see the end to this disastrous brexit earthquake and engineer either a soft brexit or even remain
I am bitterly upset at what is happening but inthe end decency will prevail as we start to slowly heal the wounds both in the UK and the EU and restore international friendships and our reputation.
I no longer want to be associated with those who would create division and hatred against so many here and abroad
And I even accept that could be under Corbyn, but if it is, Boris, the ERG and yourself are all responsible for the economic armagedon that would follow him in office
They would not have been sacked by the deranged Cummings if they had voted for the bill
They betrayed the party worse than "the bastards" did in 1993.0 -
90 days from 180 so that's my previous job made impossible,CarlottaVance said:
IIRC it’s 90 days in 180 - just like US citizens for example.DougSeal said:
This is not freedom of movement. It means we may be able to visit for "short stays" (how short?) without a visa. We will be able to go to France for days rather than weeks. When I was younger I worked in France for a ski season. I couldn't do that now. This is such small beer.HYUFD said:0 -
Yet the Tories still have a 7% lead over Labour and a 16% lead over the LDs in the latest poll todayPClipp said:
Indeed, my dear old HY! Lots and lots of Conservative voters are giving up on the party run by Mr Cumming, and falling in with the Lib Dems.HYUFD said:
If you refuse to respect the Brexit vote and Leave Deal or No Deal then sadly BigG you are now a LD, not a conservativeBig_G_NorthWales said:I am a one nation conservative, not a Farage tribute act, and support the 100 conservatives/or sacked conservatives who I hope rebel in a block and create their own movement, and by the way, see the end to this disastrous brexit earthquake and engineer either a soft brexit or even remain
I am bitterly upset at what is happening but in the end decency will prevail as we start to slowly heal the wounds both in the UK and the EU and restore international friendships and our reputation.
I no longer want to be associated with those who would create division and hatred against so many here and abroad
And I even accept that could be under Corbyn, but if it is, Boris, the ERG and yourself are all responsible for the economic armagedon that would follow him in office
After all, the Lib Dems are the only nation-wide party with any sense of economic responsibility. With concern for the environment and the future of the planet. With a profound respect for personal liberty and for fair play. All the things that moderate Conservatives used to say they stood for.
https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1169598068750200832?s=200 -
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Waiting for the next polling update.Casino_Royale said:(Most) Conservative MPs knew they were taking a massive gamble when they elected Boris.
I wonder how they’re feeling today?0 -
Then you'd get a work visa instead, surely?eek said:
90 days from 180 so that's my previous job made impossible,CarlottaVance said:
IIRC it’s 90 days in 180 - just like US citizens for example.DougSeal said:
This is not freedom of movement. It means we may be able to visit for "short stays" (how short?) without a visa. We will be able to go to France for days rather than weeks. When I was younger I worked in France for a ski season. I couldn't do that now. This is such small beer.HYUFD said:0 -
So Boris gets to find out what Priti Patel has been up to.TGOHF said:1 -
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He's not Britain Trump 'cos if he were there'd be large chunks of the population (however deluded) glad to see him.
https://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/1169664123745054727?s=200 -
This is a very tory problem it has festered in their party for many years but in 2015 David Cameron in the sole interest of the Conservative party decided to offer a referendum on EO membership, he won the election and one side went into it believing they couldnt lose and therefore did no planning for leave and the other side did no planning for leave because they didn’t think the could win.
Cameron said I’m fucking off you can sort the mess and the conservatives decided to put May into pole position. She realized that her party couldn’t deliver a Tory solution so went to the country only to be put in a worse position. She formed a government with the support of the DUP and went out and negotiated a TORY brexit deal which was her responsibility as PM of a government that on paper commanded the majority of the house.
Her own party from both sides failed to support her, nothing to do with the opposition she is PM because she commands the house. The traitors in the ERG and those on the other side got off scot fore for their being traitors and hid behind blaming everybody else.
We now move on to someone who now sacks the people who weren’t traitors and rewards those that were. This is a very Tory problem and whilst I doubt they will pay at the ballot box they really don’t deserve to even come within two votes of a parish council seat.0 -
+1PClipp said:
Indeed, my dear old HY! Lots and lots of Conservative voters are giving up on the party run by Mr Cumming, and falling in with the Lib Dems.HYUFD said:
If you refuse to respect the Brexit vote and Leave Deal or No Deal then sadly BigG you are now a LD, not a conservativeBig_G_NorthWales said:I am a one nation conservative, not a Farage tribute act, and support the 100 conservatives/or sacked conservatives who I hope rebel in a block and create their own movement, and by the way, see the end to this disastrous brexit earthquake and engineer either a soft brexit or even remain
I am bitterly upset at what is happening but in the end decency will prevail as we start to slowly heal the wounds both in the UK and the EU and restore international friendships and our reputation.
I no longer want to be associated with those who would create division and hatred against so many here and abroad
And I even accept that could be under Corbyn, but if it is, Boris, the ERG and yourself are all responsible for the economic armagedon that would follow him in office
After all, the Lib Dems are the only nation-wide party with any sense of economic responsibility. With concern for the environment and the future of the planet. With a profound respect for personal liberty and for fair play. All the things that moderate Conservatives used to say they stood for.0 -
I remember when 'You should shut up and join the X' was a meme to mock over zealous Corbynites, not an accurate paraphrasing of the Borisites.1
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Bibi no doubt offering him advice on how he keeps winning elections despite being loathed by the liberal leftTGOHF said:0 -
Peter Kay way to AmarilloTheScreamingEagles said:
So Boris gets to find out what Priti Patel has been up to.TGOHF said:0 -
Boris isn’t getting any slack. The reason he isn’t getting any slack is because he’s narcissistic, nihilistic and amoral - and even borderline sociopathic.Jonathan said:
Boris treated May poorly, plotted, undermined her and killed her premiership.AlastairMeeks said:
Pity is the emotion that politicians fear most. Not that Boris Johnson deserves any.dyedwoolie said:
There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisiskle4 said:
Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.RobD said:.
Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.kle4 said:
The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.CarlottaVance said:
This is karma.
He was elected because (notwithstanding all of that) MPs believed he was a good campaigner and communicator. Further, he could be influenced positively in office.
If none of that is shown to hold true in reality then his downfall will be swift and merciless.0 -
If the polls are good for him why will Labour give him an election?HYUFD said:
As the weekend polls will show Boris won't need any, Corbyn might though and I will have no sympathy for him certainlyAlastairMeeks said:
Pity is the emotion that politicians fear most. Not that Boris Johnson deserves any.dyedwoolie said:
There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisiskle4 said:
Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.RobD said:.
Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.kle4 said:
The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.CarlottaVance said:0 -
The vast majority of Tory MPs voted for the Withdrawal Agreement at least once and against further extension.nichomar said:This is a very tory problem it has festered in their party for many years but in 2015 David Cameron in the sole interest of the Conservative party decided to offer a referendum on EO membership, he won the election and one side went into it believing they couldnt lose and therefore did no planning for leave and the other side did no planning for leave because they didn’t think the could win.
Cameron said I’m fucking off you can sort the mess and the conservatives decided to put May into pole position. She realized that her party couldn’t deliver a Tory solution so went to the country only to be put in a worse position. She formed a government with the support of the DUP and went out and negotiated a TORY brexit deal which was her responsibility as PM of a government that on paper commanded the majority of the house.
Her own party from both sides failed to support her, nothing to do with the opposition she is PM because she commands the house. The traitors in the ERG and those on the other side got off scot fore for their being traitors and hid behind blaming everybody else.
We now move on to someone who now sacks the people who weren’t traitors and rewards those that were. This is a very Tory problem and whilst I doubt they will pay at the ballot box they really don’t deserve to even come within two votes of a parish council seat.
Those who are responsible for betraying the will of the people are almost entirely on the Opposition benches and led by Jeremy Corbyn and Corbyn's day of reckoning will soon have arrived
https://twitter.com/matthewlesh/status/1169523421669208064?s=200 -
-1Big_G_NorthWales said:
+1PClipp said:
Indeed, my dear old HY! Lots and lots of Conservative voters are giving up on the party run by Mr Cumming, and falling in with the Lib Dems.HYUFD said:
If you refuse to respect the Brexit vote and Leave Deal or No Deal then sadly BigG you are now a LD, not a conservativeBig_G_NorthWales said:I am a one nation conservative, not a Farage tribute act, and support the 100 conservatives/or sacked conservatives who I hope rebel in a block and create their own movement, and by the way, see the end to this disastrous brexit earthquake and engineer either a soft brexit or even remain
I am bitterly upset at what is happening but in the end decency will prevail as we start to slowly heal the wounds both in the UK and the EU and restore international friendships and our reputation.
I no longer want to be associated with those who would create division and hatred against so many here and abroad
And I even accept that could be under Corbyn, but if it is, Boris, the ERG and yourself are all responsible for the economic armagedon that would follow him in office
After all, the Lib Dems are the only nation-wide party with any sense of economic responsibility. With concern for the environment and the future of the planet. With a profound respect for personal liberty and for fair play. All the things that moderate Conservatives used to say they stood for.
True Conservatives will stay in the party’s outer orbit and fight to maintain it as a broad church, anchored to the principles of conservatism and realism it has always espoused.0 -
If the Tories needed a Brexiteer to take over at short notice, the most senior one who hasn’t been rejected already is Priti Patel.0
-
I recall Tony Blair spending first day of an election campaign at a school with children as a backdrop. Is that better?Yellow_Submarine said:Being a Philadelphia lawyer I'm horrified by the complete misuse of police officers to provide a backdrop to what Boris himself described as the first day of the General Election. It's Banana Republic stuff. On the same day Rees-Mogg abused parliamentary privilege to smear a political opponent it just adds to the sense of complete unravelling of norms. Voting tactically for the Labour candidate in my Con held marginal ( anyone up for a vote swap ? ) while Jeremy Corbyn is leader is so grave a step I won't decide till polling day morning. However it does feel that this situation has ' gone nuclear ' and all there is left to do is order the counter strike from the bunker.
0 -
I think you are right; the Aussies have form for pointedly not delaying a declaration to make a milestone (Bradman, Mark Taylor, Michael Clarke).Theuniondivvie said:
I read it as being a bit contempuous..Philip_Thompson said:FFS why declare on 497/8 ?
I mean its a good target but get 1 more boundary and declare FFS.
/ocd obsessive.
'You think we need to care about these arbitrary numbers when we're so far ahead?'0 -
Around 80% of people have heard of Cambridge Analytica? Am I reading that right? An extraordinarily high percentage if so.CarlottaVance said:0 -
So your premise is that even if a party fundamentally changes someone is duty bound to stay with it? That's an argument that parties have a divine right to exist, that no one should ever leave Labour or the Tories to stand for something they actually believe in, they have to stay with the 'correct' party and fight a long, possibly hopeless battle to change it back.Casino_Royale said:
-1Big_G_NorthWales said:
+1PClipp said:
Indeed, my dear old HY! Lots and lots of Conservative voters are giving up on the party run by Mr Cumming, and falling in with the Lib Dems.HYUFD said:
If you refuse to respect the Brexit vote and Leave Deal or No Deal then sadly BigG you are now a LD, not a conservativeBig_G_NorthWales said:I am a one nation conservative, not a Farage tribute act, and support the 100 conservatives/or sacked conservatives who I hope rebel in a block and create their own movement, and by the way, see the end to this disastrous brexit earthquake and engineer either a soft brexit or even remain
I am bitterly upset at what is happening but in the end decency will prevail as we start to slowly heal the wounds both in the UK and the EU and restore international friendships and our reputation.
I no longer want to be associated with those who would create division and hatred against so many here and abroad
And I even accept that could be under Corbyn, but if it is, Boris, the ERG and yourself are all responsible for the economic armagedon that would follow him in office
After all, the Lib Dems are the only nation-wide party with any sense of economic responsibility. With concern for the environment and the future of the planet. With a profound respect for personal liberty and for fair play. All the things that moderate Conservatives used to say they stood for.
True Conservatives will stay in the party’s outer orbit and fight to maintain it as a broad church, anchored to the principles of conservatism and realism it has always espoused.
I can see why the big two are so fond of such an attitude, it means even people who detest what they have become should stay and vote for them.0 -
Quite. If the polls are terrible there is no incentive to go for an election. That was the same for a government before the FTPA and is equally true of the opposition now. If HY is right it is much less likely there will be an election so current polling matters not a bit.kle4 said:
If the polls are good for him why will Labour give him an election?HYUFD said:
As the weekend polls will show Boris won't need any, Corbyn might though and I will have no sympathy for him certainlyAlastairMeeks said:
Pity is the emotion that politicians fear most. Not that Boris Johnson deserves any.dyedwoolie said:
There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisiskle4 said:
Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.RobD said:.
Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.kle4 said:
The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.CarlottaVance said:0 -
You miss the whole point of the post it is a conservative problem because the Conservative party were not interested in doing anything other than a conservative brexit therefore the only blame is on a long history or conservative politicians who should shoulder the blame. They won’t because get it over with will win and I hope the Conservative party manage what the happens than it has in the last twenty yearsHYUFD said:
The vast majority of Tory MPs voted for the Withdrawal Agreement at least once and against further extension.nichomar said:This is a very tory problem it has festered in their party for many years but in 2015 David Cameron in the sole interest of the Conservative party decided to offer a referendum on EO membership, he won the election and one side went into it believing they couldnt lose and therefore did no planning for leave and the other side did no planning for leave because they didn’t think the could win.
Cameron said I’m fucking off you can sort the mess and the conservatives decided to put May into pole position. She realized that her party couldn’t deliver a Tory solution so went to the country only to be put in a worse position. She formed a government with the support of the DUP and went out and negotiated a TORY brexit deal which was her responsibility as PM of a government that on paper commanded the majority of the house.
Her own party from both sides failed to support her, nothing to do with the opposition she is PM because she commands the house. The traitors in the ERG and those on the other side got off scot fore for their being traitors and hid behind blaming everybody else.
We now move on to someone who now sacks the people who weren’t traitors and rewards those that were. This is a very Tory problem and whilst I doubt they will pay at the ballot box they really don’t deserve to even come within two votes of a parish council seat.
Those who are responsible for betraying the will of the people are almost entirely on the Opposition benches and led by Jeremy Corbyn and Corbyn's day of reckoning will soon have arrived
https://twitter.com/matthewlesh/status/1169523421669208064?s=200 -
The Brexit Party still relevant is the only way Labour can mitigate damage .
The Tories boxed in to a no deal manifesto pledge would be likely to get the BP to make way in certain seats .
That will scare off more moderate Tories . They maybe in a minority given current polling but still enough to cause the party a lot of problems .
If the Tories go into an election with still trying for a deal then the BP won’t be going anywhere .
The opposition need to close off the options for Bozo .
0 -
Not if SNP give Boris his mid Oct election.DougSeal said:
Quite. If the polls are terrible there is no incentive to go for an election. That was the same for a government before the FTPA and is equally true of the opposition now. If HY is right it is much less likely there will be an election so current polling matters not a bit.kle4 said:
If the polls are good for him why will Labour give him an election?HYUFD said:
As the weekend polls will show Boris won't need any, Corbyn might though and I will have no sympathy for him certainlyAlastairMeeks said:
Pity is the emotion that politicians fear most. Not that Boris Johnson deserves any.dyedwoolie said:
There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisiskle4 said:
Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.RobD said:.
Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.kle4 said:
The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.CarlottaVance said:0 -
One person who has been quiet is Jeremy Hunt. I wonder what he thinks right now, given how often he switches position.0
-
That is all true.DougSeal said:
Quite. If the polls are terrible there is no incentive to go for an election. That was the same for a government before the FTPA and is equally true of the opposition now. If HY is right it is much less likely there will be an election so current polling matters not a bit.kle4 said:
If the polls are good for him why will Labour give him an election?HYUFD said:
As the weekend polls will show Boris won't need any, Corbyn might though and I will have no sympathy for him certainlyAlastairMeeks said:
Pity is the emotion that politicians fear most. Not that Boris Johnson deserves any.dyedwoolie said:
There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisiskle4 said:
Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.RobD said:.
Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.kle4 said:
The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.CarlottaVance said:
And in addition, the only poll I have seen this week only gives the Tories a seven point lead, and even then most of the fieldwork is out of date (it doesn’t cover today’s omnishambles).
In any case, polls are meaningless.0 -
Not happening . The opposition will agree an election but not till an extension has been agreed .Mexicanpete said:
Not if SNP give Boris his mid Oct election.DougSeal said:
Quite. If the polls are terrible there is no incentive to go for an election. That was the same for a government before the FTPA and is equally true of the opposition now. If HY is right it is much less likely there will be an election so current polling matters not a bit.kle4 said:
If the polls are good for him why will Labour give him an election?HYUFD said:
As the weekend polls will show Boris won't need any, Corbyn might though and I will have no sympathy for him certainlyAlastairMeeks said:
Pity is the emotion that politicians fear most. Not that Boris Johnson deserves any.dyedwoolie said:
There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisiskle4 said:
Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.RobD said:.
Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.kle4 said:
The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.CarlottaVance said:0 -
Macron is less popular that either at the momentRoger said:0 -
I hope the real Tory party wakes-up and asserts itself.Casino_Royale said:
Boris isn’t getting any slack. The reason he isn’t getting any slack is because he’s narcissistic, nihilistic and amoral - and even borderline sociopathic.Jonathan said:
Boris treated May poorly, plotted, undermined her and killed her premiership.AlastairMeeks said:
Pity is the emotion that politicians fear most. Not that Boris Johnson deserves any.dyedwoolie said:
There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisiskle4 said:
Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.RobD said:.
Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.kle4 said:
The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.CarlottaVance said:
This is karma.
He was elected because (notwithstanding all of that) MPs believed he was a good campaigner and communicator. Further, he could be influenced positively in office.
If none of that is shown to hold true in reality then his downfall will be swift and merciless.0 -
21% of voters back No Deal as their first choice with YouGov today, 19% back Boris' renegotiated Withdrawal Agreement, 19% want to stay in the EU and only 12% want a soft Brexit and to stay in the single market and customs union.nichomar said:
You miss the whole point of the post it is a conservative problem because the Conservative party were not interested in doing anything other than a conservative brexit therefore the only blame is on a long history or conservative politicians who should shoulder the blame. They won’t because get it over with will win and I hope the Conservative party manage what the happens than it has in the last twenty yearsHYUFD said:
The vast majority of Tory MPs voted for the Withdrawal Agreement at least once and against further extension.nichomar said:This is a very tory problem it has festered in their party for many years but in 2015 David Cameron in the sole interest of the Conservative party decided to offer a referendum on EO membership, he won the election and one side went into it believing they couldnt lose and therefore did no planning for leave and the other side did no planning for leave because they didn’t think the could win.
Cameron said I’m fucking off you can sort the mess and the conservatives decided to put May into pole position. She realized that her party couldn’t deliver a Tory solution so went to the country only to be put in a worse position. She formed a government with the support of the DUP and went out and negotiated a TORY brexit deal which was her responsibility as PM of a government that on paper commanded the majority of the house.
Her own party from both sides failed to support her, nothing to do with the opposition she is PM because she commands the house. The traitors in the ERG and those on the other side got off scot fore for their being traitors and hid behind blaming everybody else.
We now move on to someone who now sacks the people who weren’t traitors and rewards those that were. This is a very Tory problem and whilst I doubt they will pay at the ballot box they really don’t deserve to even come within two votes of a parish council seat.
Those who are responsible for betraying the will of the people are almost entirely on the Opposition benches and led by Jeremy Corbyn and Corbyn's day of reckoning will soon have arrived
https://twitter.com/matthewlesh/status/1169523421669208064?s=20
So the Brexit the Tories are pushing for is actually what a plurality of voters want
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/09/05/what-do-public-think-can-still-realistically-happe0 -
It's interesting how the same people who said it was disgraceful to make a connection between John Bercow's political views and his wife's (who was intending to stand as a councillor in Westminster) are now making a big fuss over the connection between Boris and Jo Johnson's political views. I can't see how that isn't double standards.0
-
-
The party hasn’t fundamentally changed. Yet. It’s in the process of a hostile takeover by entryists. And it’s very far from clear if that will succeed.kle4 said:
So your premise is that even if a party fundamentally changes someone is duty bound to stay with it? That's an argument that parties have a divine right to exist, that no one should ever leave Labour or the Tories to stand for something they actually believe in, they have to stay with the 'correct' party and fight a long, possibly hopeless battle to change it back.Casino_Royale said:
-1Big_G_NorthWales said:
+1PClipp said:
Indeed, my dear old HY! Lots and lots of Conservative voters are giving up on the party run by Mr Cumming, and falling in with the Lib Dems.HYUFD said:
If you refuse to respect the Brexit vote and Leave Deal or No Deal then sadly BigG you are now a LD, not a conservativeBig_G_NorthWales said:I am a one nation conservative, not a Farage tribute act, and support the 100 conservatives/or sacked conservatives who I hope rebel in a block and create their own movement, and by the way, see the end to this disastrous brexit earthquake and engineer either a soft brexit or even remain
I am bitterly upset at what is happening but in the end decency will prevail as we start to slowly heal the wounds both in the UK and the EU and restore international friendships and our reputation.
I no longer want to be associated with those who would create division and hatred against so many here and abroad
And I even accept that could be under Corbyn, but if it is, Boris, the ERG and yourself are all responsible for the economic armagedon that would follow him in office
After all, the Lib Dems are the only nation-wide party with any sense of economic responsibility. With concern for the environment and the future of the planet. With a profound respect for personal liberty and for fair play. All the things that moderate Conservatives used to say they stood for.
True Conservatives will stay in the party’s outer orbit and fight to maintain it as a broad church, anchored to the principles of conservatism and realism it has always espoused.
I can see why the big two are so fond of such an attitude, it means even people who detest what they have become should stay and vote for them.
I’m arguing to stay and fight, and not cut and run.1 -
But will voters still want Brexit once they've got it? Boris thinks not, hence the rush for an election before project fear becomes reality.HYUFD said:
21% of voters back No Deal as their first choice with YouGov today, 19% back Boris' renegotiated Withdrawal Agreement, 19% want to stay in the EU and only 12% want a soft Brexit and to stay in the single market and customs union.nichomar said:
You miss the whole point of the post it is a conservative problem because the Conservative party were not interested in doing anything other than a conservative brexit therefore the only blame is on a long history or conservative politicians who should shoulder the blame. They won’t because get it over with will win and I hope the Conservative party manage what the happens than it has in the last twenty yearsHYUFD said:
The vast majority of Tory MPs voted for the Withdrawal Agreement at least once and against further extension.nichomar said:This is a very tory problem it has festered in their party for many years but in 2015 David Cameron in the sole interest of the Conservative party decided to offer a referendum on EO membership, he won the election and one side went into it believing they couldnt lose and therefore did no planning for leave and the other side did no planning for leave because they didn’t think the could win.
Cameron said I’m fucking off you can sort the mess and the conservatives decided to put May into pole position. She realized that her party couldn’t deliver a Tory solution so went to the country only to be put in a worse position. She formed a government with the support of the DUP and went out and negotiated a TORY brexit deal which was her responsibility as PM of a government that on paper commanded the majority of the house.
Her own party from both sides failed to support her, nothing to do with the opposition she is PM because she commands the house. The traitors in the ERG and those on the other side got off scot fore for their being traitors and hid behind blaming everybody else.
We now move on to someone who now sacks the people who weren’t traitors and rewards those that were. This is a very Tory problem and whilst I doubt they will pay at the ballot box they really don’t deserve to even come within two votes of a parish council seat.
Those who are responsible for betraying the will of the people are almost entirely on the Opposition benches and led by Jeremy Corbyn and Corbyn's day of reckoning will soon have arrived
https://twitter.com/matthewlesh/status/1169523421669208064?s=20
So the Brexit the Tories are pushing for is actually what a plurality of voters want
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/09/05/what-do-public-think-can-still-realistically-happe0 -
ITV news has reported today Boris will refuse to go to Brussels to ask for an extension even if the Commons votes for it and the Queen has to give it royal assent, Boris will ensure only the hands of Corbyn and diehard Remainers are on the betrayal of the will of the people, not hisnico67 said:
Not happening . The opposition will agree an election but not till an extension has been agreed .Mexicanpete said:
Not if SNP give Boris his mid Oct election.DougSeal said:
Quite. If the polls are terrible there is no incentive to go for an election. That was the same for a government before the FTPA and is equally true of the opposition now. If HY is right it is much less likely there will be an election so current polling matters not a bit.kle4 said:
If the polls are good for him why will Labour give him an election?HYUFD said:
As the weekend polls will show Boris won't need any, Corbyn might though and I will have no sympathy for him certainlyAlastairMeeks said:
Pity is the emotion that politicians fear most. Not that Boris Johnson deserves any.dyedwoolie said:
There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisiskle4 said:
Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.RobD said:.
Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.kle4 said:
The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.CarlottaVance said:0 -
I honestly don't have a clue what point you were trying to make there.AndyJS said:It's interesting how the same people who said it was disgraceful to make a connection between John Bercow's political views and his wife's (who was intending to stand as a councillor in Westminster) are now making a big fuss over the connection between Boris and Jo Johnson's political views. I can't see how that isn't double standards.
1 -
What’s he going to do? Resign and let Jezza into no.10?HYUFD said:
ITV news has reported today Boris will refuse to go to Brussels to ask for an extension even if the Commons votes for it and the Queen has to give it royal assent, Boris will ensure only the hands of Corbyn and diehard Remainers are on the betrayal of the will of the people, not hisnico67 said:
Not happening . The opposition will agree an election but not till an extension has been agreed .Mexicanpete said:
Not if SNP give Boris his mid Oct election.DougSeal said:
Quite. If the polls are terrible there is no incentive to go for an election. That was the same for a government before the FTPA and is equally true of the opposition now. If HY is right it is much less likely there will be an election so current polling matters not a bit.kle4 said:
If the polls are good for him why will Labour give him an election?HYUFD said:
As the weekend polls will show Boris won't need any, Corbyn might though and I will have no sympathy for him certainlyAlastairMeeks said:
Pity is the emotion that politicians fear most. Not that Boris Johnson deserves any.dyedwoolie said:
There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisiskle4 said:
Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.RobD said:.
Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.kle4 said:
The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.CarlottaVance said:0 -
I just added Michael Gove at 35/1 as next PM to my book, with Ladbrokes (boosted).
Yes, he isn’t particularly trusted either. But he has appeal to both wings of the party, he’s a realist and the personal attack on him by Bercow the other day won’t have done him any disfavours.
If Boris does get ejected he might just be able to cobble something together and is flexible enough to compromise.0 -
In your opinion it has not fundamentally changed. Others apparently disagree. Perhaps they have miscalculated, although given how popular Boris is I don't see why that is the case. But your argument to stay in the 'outer orbit' and fight, that that is what 'true Conservatives' will do, seems pretty clear you think anyone who cannot bear being in the outer orbit will always be wrong because they have left.Casino_Royale said:
The party hasn’t fundamentally changed. Yet. It’s in the process of a hostile takeover by entryists. And it’s very far from clear if that will succeed.kle4 said:
So your premise is that even if a party fundamentally changes someone is duty bound to stay with it? That's an argument that parties have a divine right to exist, that no one should ever leave Labour or the Tories to stand for something they actually believe in, they have to stay with the 'correct' party and fight a long, possibly hopeless battle to change it back.Casino_Royale said:
-1Big_G_NorthWales said:
+1PClipp said:
Indeed, my dear old HY! Lots and lots of Conservative voters are giving up on the party run by Mr Cumming, and falling in with the Lib Dems.HYUFD said:
If you refuse to respect the Brexit vote and Leave Deal or No Deal then sadly BigG you are now a LD, not a conservativeBig_G_NorthWales said:I am a ooffice
After all, the Lib Dems are the only nation-wide party with any sense of economic responsibility. With concern for the environment and the future of the planet. With a profound respect for personal liberty and for fair play. All the things that moderate Conservatives used to say they stood for.
True Conservatives will stay in the party’s outer orbit and fight to maintain it as a broad church, anchored to the principles of conservatism and realism it has always espoused.
I can see why the big two are so fond of such an attitude, it means even people who detest what they have become should stay and vote for them.
I’m arguing to stay and fight, and not cut and run.
How long should they attempt such a fight? How long is long enough in the outer orbit? It seems mightily reminiscent of all those Labour MPs who loved to moan about Jeremy Corbyn but still happy to attempt to put him in power, making their words seem awfully hollow.0 -
This experience is discrediting the headbanger wing entirely.williamglenn said:If the Tories needed a Brexiteer to take over at short notice, the most senior one who hasn’t been rejected already is Priti Patel.
0 -
Is this a northern voter? Doesn’t matter as I understand from HY he will be voting for Boris nonethelessGallowgate said:0 -
There's about as much chance of that as of the real Labour Party waking up and asserting itself.Jonathan said:
I hope the real Tory party wakes-up and asserts itself.Casino_Royale said:
Boris isn’t getting any slack. The reason he isn’t getting any slack is because he’s narcissistic, nihilistic and amoral - and even borderline sociopathic.Jonathan said:
Boris treated May poorly, plotted, undermined her and killed her premiership.AlastairMeeks said:
Pity is the emotion that politicians fear most. Not that Boris Johnson deserves any.dyedwoolie said:
There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisiskle4 said:
Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.RobD said:.
Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.kle4 said:
The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.CarlottaVance said:
This is karma.
He was elected because (notwithstanding all of that) MPs believed he was a good campaigner and communicator. Further, he could be influenced positively in office.
If none of that is shown to hold true in reality then his downfall will be swift and merciless.
0 -
No, stay in No 10 and refuse to move and ask Brussels for an extension and he cannot be forced out unless he loses a VONC leading to a general election unless an alternative PM is agreed in 14 daysGallowgate said:
What’s he going to do? Resign and let Jezza into no.10?HYUFD said:
ITV news has reported today Boris will refuse to go to Brussels to ask for an extension even if the Commons votes for it and the Queen has to give it royal assent, Boris will ensure only the hands of Corbyn and diehard Remainers are on the betrayal of the will of the people, not hisnico67 said:
Not happening . The opposition will agree an election but not till an extension has been agreed .Mexicanpete said:
Not if SNP give Boris his mid Oct election.DougSeal said:
Quite. If the polls are terrible there is no incentive to go for an election. That was the same for a government before the FTPA and is equally true of the opposition now. If HY is right it is much less likely there will be an election so current polling matters not a bit.kle4 said:
If the polls are good for him why will Labour give him an election?HYUFD said:
As the weekend polls will show Boris won't need any, Corbyn might though and I will have no sympathy for him certainlyAlastairMeeks said:
Pity is the emotion that politicians fear most. Not that Boris Johnson deserves any.dyedwoolie said:
There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisiskle4 said:
Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.RobD said:.
Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.kle4 said:
The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.CarlottaVance said:0 -
Yeah he does the night shift.Anabobazina said:0 -
HYUFD said:
Macron is less popular that either at the momentRoger said:0 -
Had IDS, Redwood, Cash and 18 other "bastards" voted down Maastricht in 1993 after Major made it a confidence vote would they have been thrown out of the party?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am from the TM camp dedicated to public service and loyalty and I would have voted with the government even though I would have been conflicted. However to throw out 21 mps is a step too far and they should be reinstatedPhilip_Thompson said:
They knew there was a three-line-whip and what the consequences were. It isn't as if Boris removed the whip without warning that would be the consequences they were told it was a confidence vote and they made their choice.
They betrayed the party worse than "the bastards" did in 1993.
Was Ken Clarke prepared to throw them out of the party?
Would you have called that a step too far?0 -
Jesmondo in Downing St then?HYUFD said:
ITV news has reported today Boris will refuse to go to Brussels to ask for an extension even if the Commons votes for it and the Queen has to give it royal assent, Boris will ensure only the hands of Corbyn and diehard Remainers are on the betrayal of the will of the people, not hisnico67 said:
Not happening . The opposition will agree an election but not till an extension has been agreed .Mexicanpete said:
Not if SNP give Boris his mid Oct election.DougSeal said:
Quite. If the polls are terrible there is no incentive to go for an election. That was the same for a government before the FTPA and is equally true of the opposition now. If HY is right it is much less likely there will be an election so current polling matters not a bit.kle4 said:
If the polls are good for him why will Labour give him an election?HYUFD said:
As the weekend polls will show Boris won't need any, Corbyn might though and I will have no sympathy for him certainlyAlastairMeeks said:
Pity is the emotion that politicians fear most. Not that Boris Johnson deserves any.dyedwoolie said:
There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisiskle4 said:
Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.RobD said:.
Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.kle4 said:
The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.CarlottaVance said:0 -
None have negative ratings?williamglenn said:HYUFD said:
Macron is less popular that either at the momentRoger said:0 -
I’ve put a fiver on him too at 66/1 on the basis that it’d royally piss off Boris - all sides of the house might enjoy that - particularly with the lack of magnanimity shown to him following his victory.kle4 said:One person who has been quiet is Jeremy Hunt. I wonder what he thinks right now, given how often he switches position.
0 -
Boris may leave Wakefield now but he will return when it has fallen to the Tories after the next general electionGallowgate said:0 -
You know, I don’t give a shit about opinion polls I believe values, principles and honesty count for far more. Yes he will win, I think, by conning the electorate that he will get it over with but it won’t stop me thinking that he is only interested in Johnson and you are only interested in the Tory party.HYUFD said:
21% of voters back No Deal as their first choice with YouGov today, 19% back Boris' renegotiated Withdrawal Agreement, 19% want to stay in the EU and only 12% want a soft Brexit and to stay in the single market and customs union.nichomar said:
You miss the whole point of the post it is a conservative problem because the Conservative party were not interested in doing anything other than a conservative brexit therefore the only blame is on a long history or conservative politicians who should shoulder the blame. They won’t because get it over with will win and I hope the Conservative party manage what the happens than it has in the last twenty yearsHYUFD said:
The vast majority of Tory MPs voted for the Withdrawal Agreement at least once and against further extension.nichomar said:This is a very tory problem it has festered in their party for many years but in 2015 David Cameron in the sole interest of the Conservative party decided to offer a referendum on EO membership, he won the election and one side went into it believing they couldnt lose and therefore did no planning for leave and the other side did no planning for leave because they didn’t think the could win.
Cameron said I’m fucking off you can sort the mess and the conservatives decided to put May into pole position. She realized that her party couldn’t deliver a Tory solution so went to the country only to be put in a worse position. She formed a government with the
Her own party from both sides failed to support her, nothing to do with the opposition she is PM because she commands the house. The traitors in the ERG and those on the other side got off scot fore for their being traitors and hid behind blaming everybody else.
We now move on to someone who now sacks the people who weren’t traitors and rewards those that were. This is a very Tory problem and whilst I doubt they will pay at the ballot box they really don’t deserve to even come within two votes of a parish council seat.
Those who are responsible for betraying the will of the people are almost entirely on the Opposition benches and led by Jeremy Corbyn and Corbyn's day of reckoning will soon have arrived
https://twitter.com/matthewlesh/status/1169523421669208064?s=20
So the Brexit the Tories are pushing for is actually what a plurality of voters want
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/09/05/what-do-public-think-can-still-realistically-happe0 -
Hunt also voted not to extend and block No DealCasino_Royale said:
I’ve put a fiver on him too at 66/1 on the basis that it’d royally piss off Boris - all sides of the house might enjoy that - particularly with the lack of magnanimity shown to him following his victory.kle4 said:One person who has been quiet is Jeremy Hunt. I wonder what he thinks right now, given how often he switches position.
0 -
Why go back that far? Half the current cabinet should have been chucked out of the party for what they did to May.Philip_Thompson said:
Had IDS, Redwood, Cash and 18 other "bastards" voted down Maastricht in 1993 after Major made it a confidence vote would they have been thrown out of the party?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am from the TM camp dedicated to public service and loyalty and I would have voted with the government even though I would have been conflicted. However to throw out 21 mps is a step too far and they should be reinstatedPhilip_Thompson said:
They knew there was a three-line-whip and what the consequences were. It isn't as if Boris removed the whip without warning that would be the consequences they were told it was a confidence vote and they made their choice.
They betrayed the party worse than "the bastards" did in 1993.
Was Ken Clarke prepared to throw them out of the party?
Would you have called that a step too far?
1 -
LOLHYUFD said:
Boris may leave Wakefield now but he will return when it has fallen to the Tories after the next general electionGallowgate said:0 -
So 57% do not approve of Macron then and that on the best poll you could find for himwilliamglenn said:HYUFD said:
Macron is less popular that either at the momentRoger said:0 -
Genuine question open to all: what would happen if Boris ignored this law?HYUFD said:No, stay in No 10 and refuse to move and ask Brussels for an extension and he cannot be forced out unless he loses a VONC leading to a general election unless an alternative PM is agreed in 14 days
I can’t seem to find any detail on this point.0 -
Nope. You’re fighting a straw man.kle4 said:
In your opinion it has not fundamentally changed. Others apparently disagree. Perhaps they have miscalculated, although given how popular Boris is I don't see why that is the case. But your argument to stay in the 'outer orbit' and fight, that that is what 'true Conservatives' will do, seems pretty clear you think anyone who cannot bear being in the outer orbit will always be wrong because they have left.Casino_Royale said:
The party hasn’t fundamentally changed. Yet. It’s in the process of a hostile takeover by entryists. And it’s very far from clear if that will succeed.kle4 said:
them.Casino_Royale said:
-1Big_G_NorthWales said:
+1PClipp said:
Indeed, my dear old HY! Lots and lots of Conservative voters are giving up on the party run by Mr Cumming, and falling in with the Lib Dems.HYUFD said:
If you refuse to respect the Brexit vote and Leave Deal or No Deal then sadly BigG you are now a LD, not a conservativeBig_G_NorthWales said:I am a ooffice
After all, the Lib Dems are the only nation-wide party with any sense of economic responsibility. With concern for the environment and the future of the planet. With a profound respect for personal liberty and for fair play. All the things that moderate Conservatives used to say they stood for.
True Conservatives will stay in the party’s outer orbit and fight to maintain it as a broad church, anchored to the principles of conservatism and realism it has always espoused.
I’m arguing to stay and fight, and not cut and run.
How long should they attempt such a fight? How long is long enough in the outer orbit? It seems mightily reminiscent of all those Labour MPs who loved to moan about Jeremy Corbyn but still happy to attempt to put him in power, making their words seem awfully hollow.
Ken Clarke, Philip Hammond, Nicholas Soames and Dominic Grieve (lifelong Conservatives) have chosen to stay and fight rather than defect to a party - the Liberal Democrats - that holds very different principles. They are in different category to Heidi Allen and Sarah Wollaston, who’ve never been convincing Conservatives.
And it’s not clear Boris is all that popular either, so the fight is very far from forlorn.
Your final sentence is a massive non sequitur, which isn’t worthy of a response.0 -
My other half just signed up as a Lib Dem member!2
-
Er, he’d be breaking the law.HYUFD said:
No, stay in No 10 and refuse to move and ask Brussels for an extension and he cannot be forced out unless he loses a VONC leading to a general election unless an alternative PM is agreed in 14 daysGallowgate said:
What’s he going to do? Resign and let Jezza into no.10?HYUFD said:
ITV news has reported today Boris will refuse to go to Brussels to ask for an extension even if the Commons votes for it and the Queen has to give it royal assent, Boris will ensure only the hands of Corbyn and diehard Remainers are on the betrayal of the will of the people, not hisnico67 said:
Not happening . The opposition will agree an election but not till an extension has been agreed .Mexicanpete said:
Not if SNP give Boris his mid Oct election.DougSeal said:
Quite. If the polls are terrible there is no incentive to go for an election. That was the same for a government before the FTPA and is equally true of the opposition now. If HY is right it is much less likely there will be an election so current polling matters not a bit.kle4 said:
If the polls are good for him why will Labour give him an election?HYUFD said:
As the weekend polls will show Boris won't need any, Corbyn might though and I will have no sympathy for him certainlyAlastairMeeks said:
Pity is the emotion that politicians fear most. Not that Boris Johnson deserves any.dyedwoolie said:
There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisiskle4 said:
Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.RobD said:.
Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.kle4 said:
The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.CarlottaVance said:0
