The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.
Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.
Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.
There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisis
As someone who has long sought the office he now holds and has plotted to achieve it so intensely, making so many promises to do so, it's not exactly that I feel any sympathy for him, or that it is necessarily unseemly. However, not everything Boris does, even when bad, is the same level of bad. Even with Trump he's not doing something stupid and outrageous every time he opens his mouth. For me it rather undermines the impact of the really bad stuff Boris may say or do, because I get fatigued from being ourtaged over him saying big girls blouse or something.
Theres a lot of personal animosity in how it's all going down, hes not loved. Hes tricky dicky (Kissinger said can you imagine what this man could have achieved if hed ever been loved?)
HYUFD said: » show previous quotes You have already gone from the Tory Party, your choice but the party itself is now fully behind Brexit Deal or No Deal and with Boris in the war with the diehard Remainers and Corbyn
I am saddened HYUFD that you have transformed from a sensible conservative with an obsession with polls to a deluded disciple of a cult that is trashing everything you once stood for
I am a one nation conservative, not a Farage tribute act, and support the 100 conservatives/or sacked conservatives who I hope rebel in a block and create their own movement, and by the way, see the end to this disastrous brexit earthquake and engineer either a soft brexit or even remain
I am bitterly upset at what is happening but inthe end decency will prevail as we start to slowly heal the wounds both in the UK and the EU and restore international friendships and our reputation.
I no longer want to be associated with those who would create division and hatred against so many here and abroad
And I even accept that could be under Corbyn, but if it is, Boris, the ERG and yourself are all responsible for the economic armagedon that would follow him in office
If you refuse to respect the Brexit vote and Leave Deal or No Deal then sadly BigG you are now a LD, not a conservative
HYUFD you are an obsessive and everything that is unattractive and wrong with modern politics.
We as a Tory party need voters like Big_G and others. Hopefully by end of October Brexit can be behind us and there would be 4.5 years more where we would agree on more than just Brexit.
They can remain members if they wish but no Cummings is right we cannot have Tory MPs standing again as Tory candidates while refusing to back Brexit Deal or No Deal as the vast majority of Tory members and voters now want in every poll.
If Boris won a narrow majority of say 10 and those 21 Tory rebels were elected again as Tory MPs he could not get Brexit Deal or No Deal through despite a winning majority based on a manifesto to do so.
You may not like it, it may be brutal but that is where we are now, diehard Remainers will stop at nothing to block Brexit and the Tory Party must be prepared to respond in kind to deliver Brexit
Its right for MPs to back Brexit "deal or no deal" but that doesn't make Big_G a Lib Dem.
At worst it would make him politically homeless, as I was while May was PM.
A good comment. There's no need to over indulge in bitterness toward (new) opponents and triumphalism at one's own faction being in the ascendency.
HYUFD said: » show previous quotes You have already gone from the Tory Party, your choice but the party itself is now fully behind Brexit Deal or No Deal and with Boris in the war with the diehard Remainers and Corbyn
I am saddened HYUFD that you have transformed from a sensible conservative with an obsession with polls to a deluded disciple of a cult that is trashing everything you once stood for
I am a one nation conservative, not a Farage tribute act, and support the 100 conservatives/or sacked conservatives who I hope rebel in a block and create their own movement, and by the way, see the end to this disastrous brexit earthquake and engineer either a soft brexit or even remain
I am bitterly upset at what is happening but inthe end decency will prevail as we start to slowly heal the wounds both in the UK and the EU and restore international friendships and our reputation.
I no longer want to be associated with those who would create division and hatred against so many here and abroad
And I even accept that could be under Corbyn, but if it is, Boris, the ERG and yourself are all responsible for the economic armagedon that would follow him in office
If you refuse to respect the Brexit vote and Leave Deal or No Deal then sadly BigG you are now a LD, not a conservative
HYUFD you are an obsessive and everything that is unattractive and wrong with modern politics.
We as a Tory party need voters like Big_G and others. Hopefully by end of October Brexit can be behind us and there would be 4.5 years more where we would agree on more than just Brexit.
They can remain members if they wish but no Cummings is right we cannot have Tory MPs standing again as Tory candidates while refusing to back Brexit Deal or No Deal as the vast majority of Tory members and voters now want in every poll.
If Boris won a narrow majority of say 10 and those 21 Tory rebels were elected again as Tory MPs he could not get Brexit Deal or No Deal through despite a winning majority based on a manifesto to do so.
You may not like it, it may be brutal but that is where we are now, diehard Remainers will stop at nothing to block Brexit and the Tory Party must be prepared to respond in kind to deliver Brexit
Those are the sentiments of Corbyn, Milne and Lansmann.
HYUFD said: » show previous quotes You have already gone from the Tory Party, your choice but the party itself is now fully behind Brexit Deal or No Deal and with Boris in the war with the diehard Remainers and Corbyn
I am saddened HYUFD that you have transformed from a sensible conservative with an obsession with polls to a deluded disciple of a cult that is trashing everything you once stood for
I am a one nation conservative, not a Farage tribute act, and support the 100 conservatives/or sacked conservatives who I hope rebel in a block and create their own movement, and by the way, see the end to this disastrous brexit earthquake and engineer either a soft brexit or even remain
I am bitterly upset at what is happening but inthe end decency will prevail as we start to slowly heal the wounds both in the UK and the EU and restore international friendships and our reputation.
I no longer want to be associated with those who would create division and hatred against so many here and abroad
And I even accept that could be under Corbyn, but if it is, Boris, the ERG and yourself are all responsible for the economic armagedon that would follow him in office
If you refuse to respect the Brexit vote and Leave Deal or No Deal then sadly BigG you are now a LD, not a conservative
You are not the conservative. I am with Ken Clarke, Rory Stewart and it looks possibly Amber Rudd all of whom voted for the WDA you once were in favour of
They also voted to extend over Brexit on October 31st
You know that was in the context of the 29th March and you insult my intelligence about their vote in the no deal bill.
They would not have been sacked by the deranged Cummings if they had voted for the bill
So I am confused, is Boris saying he won't follow the law after all if one demanding an extension request comes in? What is the plan for the next step here? As strong words alone are not one.
The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.
Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.
Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.
There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisis
Pity is the emotion that politicians fear most. Not that Boris Johnson deserves any.
This is not freedom of movement. It means we may be able to visit for "short stays" (how short?) without a visa. We will be able to go to France for days rather than weeks. When I was younger I worked in France for a ski season. I couldn't do that now. This is such small beer.
The short term visa will likely be three-six months as it is for a lot of other tourist visas. It most certainly won't be "days".
You can't stay more than a few days or a couple of weeks if you can't pay your way by working, for example, in a bar as I did. It's a nothing announcement and just reinforces the fact that, as individuals, we are losing so many rights with this fiasco. It won't persuade anyone who thinks Brexit is a terrible idea otherwise. And if that was not the purpose of the announcement then what was the purpose of the announcement?
There will undoubtedly be short-term employment visas if you were so inclined, although it will not be as easy as arriving without any plans. The number of people who do that sort of thing must be vanishingly small, however.
As for the announcement, it confirms that visa-free visits will still be possible. That's probably of interest to quite a few people.
As well as disrupting businesses planning and stockpiling while forcing them to do it again in full knowledge that nothing will change by January with Christmas in the middle.
Its pathetic. And those suggesting we do this to the country to try and make a Tory PM squirm are despicable and will be seen through by the sane members of the public who reject this insanity.
So I am confused, is Boris saying he won't follow the law after all if one demanding an extension request comes in? What is the plan for the next step here? As strong words alone are not one.
His words on 'someone else trying to keep us in after Oct 31) strongly suggest he will quit the day he is supposed to request it
Which, if he does it, wins the election. Man of his word on Brexit = votes
The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.
Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.
Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.
There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisis
Pity is the emotion that politicians fear most. Not that Boris Johnson deserves any.
Boris treated May poorly, plotted, undermined her and killed her premiership.
This is not freedom of movement. It means we may be able to visit for "short stays" (how short?) without a visa. We will be able to go to France for days rather than weeks. When I was younger I worked in France for a ski season. I couldn't do that now. This is such small beer.
IIRC it’s 90 days in 180 - just like US citizens for example.
So I am confused, is Boris saying he won't follow the law after all if one demanding an extension request comes in? What is the plan for the next step here? As strong words alone are not one.
His words on 'someone else trying to keep us in after Oct 31) strongly suggest he will quit the day he is supposed to request it
He'll really abandon his position as PM after less than 3 months? I'm surprised his ego could take that, but if he sees political survival for the party as requiring utter rejection of any extension, I guess that would be the path.
HYUFD said: » show previous quotes You have already gone from the Tory Party, your choice but the party itself is now fully behind Brexit Deal or No Deal and with Boris in the war with the diehard Remainers and Corbyn
I am saddened HYUFD that you have transformed from a sensible conservative with an obsession with polls to a deluded disciple of a cult that is trashing everything you once stood for
I am a one nation conservative, not a Farage tribute act, and support the 100 conservatives/or sacked conservatives who I hope rebel in a block and create their own movement, and by the way, see the end to this disastrous brexit earthquake and engineer either a soft brexit or even remain
I am bitterly upset at what is happening but inthe end decency will prevail as we start to slowly heal the wounds both in the UK and the EU and restore international friendships and our reputation.
I no longer want to be associated with those who would create division and hatred against so many here and abroad
And I even accept that could be under Corbyn, but if it is, Boris, the ERG and yourself are all responsible for the economic armagedon that would follow him in office
If you refuse to respect the Brexit vote and Leave Deal or No Deal then sadly BigG you are now a LD, not a conservative
You are not the conservative. I am with Ken Clarke, Rory Stewart and it looks possibly Amber Rudd all of whom voted for the WDA you once were in favour of
They also voted to extend over Brexit on October 31st
You know that was in the context of the 29th March and you insult my intelligence about their vote in the no deal bill.
They would not have been sacked by the deranged Cummings if they had voted for the bill
They knew there was a three-line-whip and what the consequences were. It isn't as if Boris removed the whip without warning that would be the consequences they were told it was a confidence vote and they made their choice.
They betrayed the party worse than "the bastards" did in 1993.
So I am confused, is Boris saying he won't follow the law after all if one demanding an extension request comes in? What is the plan for the next step here? As strong words alone are not one.
His words on 'someone else trying to keep us in after Oct 31) strongly suggest he will quit the day he is supposed to request it
He'll really abandon his position as PM after less than 3 months? I'm surprised his ego could take that, but if he sees political survival for the party as requiring utter rejection of any extension, I guess that would be the path.
I'm guessing it would be in an election campaign and hed figure he would be back in a few weeks, he will stay as Tory leader
Worth noting with all your sympathy for Ken Clarke that Ken Clarke was a member of John Major's Cabinet in 1993 when the decision was made to make Maastricht a confidence motion.
Ken Clarke presumably agreed with removing the whip from MPs who vote the 'wrong' way against the party in Europe then - what's changed since? Why shouldn't Ken Clarke face the same sanction he was happy to see doled out to anyone who rebelled against Maastricht in 1993?
So I am confused, is Boris saying he won't follow the law after all if one demanding an extension request comes in? What is the plan for the next step here? As strong words alone are not one.
His words on 'someone else trying to keep us in after Oct 31) strongly suggest he will quit the day he is supposed to request it
He'll really abandon his position as PM after less than 3 months? I'm surprised his ego could take that, but if he sees political survival for the party as requiring utter rejection of any extension, I guess that would be the path.
I'm guessing it would be in an election campaign and hed figure he would be back in a few weeks, he will stay as Tory leader
Boris is going to give Jezza the nuclear codes? Clearly he doesn't think he's a danger to national security.
I am a one nation conservative, not a Farage tribute act, and support the 100 conservatives/or sacked conservatives who I hope rebel in a block and create their own movement, and by the way, see the end to this disastrous brexit earthquake and engineer either a soft brexit or even remain I am bitterly upset at what is happening but in the end decency will prevail as we start to slowly heal the wounds both in the UK and the EU and restore international friendships and our reputation. I no longer want to be associated with those who would create division and hatred against so many here and abroad And I even accept that could be under Corbyn, but if it is, Boris, the ERG and yourself are all responsible for the economic armagedon that would follow him in office
If you refuse to respect the Brexit vote and Leave Deal or No Deal then sadly BigG you are now a LD, not a conservative
Indeed, my dear old HY! Lots and lots of Conservative voters are giving up on the party run by Mr Cumming, and falling in with the Lib Dems.
After all, the Lib Dems are the only nation-wide party with any sense of economic responsibility. With concern for the environment and the future of the planet. With a profound respect for personal liberty and for fair play. All the things that moderate Conservatives used to say they stood for.
The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.
Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.
Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.
There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisis
Pity is the emotion that politicians fear most. Not that Boris Johnson deserves any.
Boris treated May poorly, plotted, undermined her and killed her premiership.
This is karma.
No, that was Corbyn and diehard Remainers mainly, Boris voted for the Withdrawal Agreement at MV3.
What actually is happening is Boris is building a Tory lead May lost ready to finally deliver the Leave vote the diehard Remainers in Parliament have refused to respect
Being a Philadelphia lawyer I'm horrified by the complete misuse of police officers to provide a backdrop to what Boris himself described as the first day of the General Election. It's Banana Republic stuff. On the same day Rees-Mogg abused parliamentary privilege to smear a political opponent it just adds to the sense of complete unravelling of norms. Voting tactically for the Labour candidate in my Con held marginal ( anyone up for a vote swap ? ) while Jeremy Corbyn is leader is so grave a step I won't decide till polling day morning. However it does feel that this situation has ' gone nuclear ' and all there is left to do is order the counter strike from the bunker.
The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.
Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.
Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.
There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisis
Pity is the emotion that politicians fear most. Not that Boris Johnson deserves any.
As the weekend polls will show Boris won't need any, Corbyn might though and I will have no sympathy for him certainly
So I am confused, is Boris saying he won't follow the law after all if one demanding an extension request comes in? What is the plan for the next step here? As strong words alone are not one.
His words on 'someone else trying to keep us in after Oct 31) strongly suggest he will quit the day he is supposed to request it
He'll really abandon his position as PM after less than 3 months? I'm surprised his ego could take that, but if he sees political survival for the party as requiring utter rejection of any extension, I guess that would be the path.
I'm guessing it would be in an election campaign and hed figure he would be back in a few weeks, he will stay as Tory leader
Boris is going to give Jezza the nuclear codes? Clearly he doesn't think he's a danger to national security.
I thought Jezza had already made it clear he’d never use the UK’s nukes under any circumstances.
So I am confused, is Boris saying he won't follow the law after all if one demanding an extension request comes in? What is the plan for the next step here? As strong words alone are not one.
His words on 'someone else trying to keep us in after Oct 31) strongly suggest he will quit the day he is supposed to request it
He'll really abandon his position as PM after less than 3 months? I'm surprised his ego could take that, but if he sees political survival for the party as requiring utter rejection of any extension, I guess that would be the path.
I'm guessing it would be in an election campaign and hed figure he would be back in a few weeks, he will stay as Tory leader
Boris is going to give Jezza the nuclear codes? Clearly he doesn't think he's a danger to national security.
I thought Jezza had already made it clear he’d never use the UK’s nukes under any circumstances.
Exactly. Is Boris going to surrender the nuclear deterrent?
HYUFD said: » show previous quotes You have already gone from the Tory Party, your choice but the party itself is now fully behind Brexit Deal or No Deal and with Boris in the war with the diehard Remainers and Corbyn
I am saddened HYUFD that you have transformed from a sensible conservative with an obsession with polls to a deluded disciple of a cult that is trashing everything you once stood for
I am a one nation conservative, not a Farage tribute act, and support the 100 conservatives/or sacked conservatives who I hope rebel in a block and create their own movement, and by the way, see the end to this disastrous brexit earthquake and engineer either a soft brexit or even remain
I am bitterly upset at what is happening but inthe end decency will prevail as we start to slowly heal the wounds both in the UK and the EU and restore international friendships and our reputation.
I no longer want to be associated with those who would create division and hatred against so many here and abroad
And I even accept that could be under Corbyn, but if it is, Boris, the ERG and yourself are all responsible for the economic armagedon that would follow him in office
If you refuse to respect the Brexit vote and Leave Deal or No Deal then sadly BigG you are now a LD, not a conservative
You are not the conservative. I am with Ken Clarke, Rory Stewart and it looks possibly Amber Rudd all of whom voted for the WDA you once were in favour of
They also voted to extend over Brexit on October 31st
You know that was in the context of the 29th March and you insult my intelligence about their vote in the no deal bill.
They would not have been sacked by the deranged Cummings if they had voted for the bill
They knew there was a three-line-whip and what the consequences were. It isn't as if Boris removed the whip without warning that would be the consequences they were told it was a confidence vote and they made their choice.
They betrayed the party worse than "the bastards" did in 1993.
I am from the TM camp dedicated to public service and loyalty and I would have voted with the government even though I would have been conflicted. However to throw out 21 mps is a step too far and they should be reinstated
This is not freedom of movement. It means we may be able to visit for "short stays" (how short?) without a visa. We will be able to go to France for days rather than weeks. When I was younger I worked in France for a ski season. I couldn't do that now. This is such small beer.
IIRC it’s 90 days in 180 - just like US citizens for example.
90 days from 180 so that's my previous job made impossible,
I am a one nation conservative, not a Farage tribute act, and support the 100 conservatives/or sacked conservatives who I hope rebel in a block and create their own movement, and by the way, see the end to this disastrous brexit earthquake and engineer either a soft brexit or even remain I am bitterly upset at what is happening but in the end decency will prevail as we start to slowly heal the wounds both in the UK and the EU and restore international friendships and our reputation. I no longer want to be associated with those who would create division and hatred against so many here and abroad And I even accept that could be under Corbyn, but if it is, Boris, the ERG and yourself are all responsible for the economic armagedon that would follow him in office
If you refuse to respect the Brexit vote and Leave Deal or No Deal then sadly BigG you are now a LD, not a conservative
Indeed, my dear old HY! Lots and lots of Conservative voters are giving up on the party run by Mr Cumming, and falling in with the Lib Dems.
After all, the Lib Dems are the only nation-wide party with any sense of economic responsibility. With concern for the environment and the future of the planet. With a profound respect for personal liberty and for fair play. All the things that moderate Conservatives used to say they stood for.
Yet the Tories still have a 7% lead over Labour and a 16% lead over the LDs in the latest poll today
This is not freedom of movement. It means we may be able to visit for "short stays" (how short?) without a visa. We will be able to go to France for days rather than weeks. When I was younger I worked in France for a ski season. I couldn't do that now. This is such small beer.
IIRC it’s 90 days in 180 - just like US citizens for example.
90 days from 180 so that's my previous job made impossible,
This is a very tory problem it has festered in their party for many years but in 2015 David Cameron in the sole interest of the Conservative party decided to offer a referendum on EO membership, he won the election and one side went into it believing they couldnt lose and therefore did no planning for leave and the other side did no planning for leave because they didn’t think the could win. Cameron said I’m fucking off you can sort the mess and the conservatives decided to put May into pole position. She realized that her party couldn’t deliver a Tory solution so went to the country only to be put in a worse position. She formed a government with the support of the DUP and went out and negotiated a TORY brexit deal which was her responsibility as PM of a government that on paper commanded the majority of the house.
Her own party from both sides failed to support her, nothing to do with the opposition she is PM because she commands the house. The traitors in the ERG and those on the other side got off scot fore for their being traitors and hid behind blaming everybody else.
We now move on to someone who now sacks the people who weren’t traitors and rewards those that were. This is a very Tory problem and whilst I doubt they will pay at the ballot box they really don’t deserve to even come within two votes of a parish council seat.
I am a one nation conservative, not a Farage tribute act, and support the 100 conservatives/or sacked conservatives who I hope rebel in a block and create their own movement, and by the way, see the end to this disastrous brexit earthquake and engineer either a soft brexit or even remain I am bitterly upset at what is happening but in the end decency will prevail as we start to slowly heal the wounds both in the UK and the EU and restore international friendships and our reputation. I no longer want to be associated with those who would create division and hatred against so many here and abroad And I even accept that could be under Corbyn, but if it is, Boris, the ERG and yourself are all responsible for the economic armagedon that would follow him in office
If you refuse to respect the Brexit vote and Leave Deal or No Deal then sadly BigG you are now a LD, not a conservative
Indeed, my dear old HY! Lots and lots of Conservative voters are giving up on the party run by Mr Cumming, and falling in with the Lib Dems.
After all, the Lib Dems are the only nation-wide party with any sense of economic responsibility. With concern for the environment and the future of the planet. With a profound respect for personal liberty and for fair play. All the things that moderate Conservatives used to say they stood for.
The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.
Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.
Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.
There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisis
Pity is the emotion that politicians fear most. Not that Boris Johnson deserves any.
Boris treated May poorly, plotted, undermined her and killed her premiership.
This is karma.
Boris isn’t getting any slack. The reason he isn’t getting any slack is because he’s narcissistic, nihilistic and amoral - and even borderline sociopathic.
He was elected because (notwithstanding all of that) MPs believed he was a good campaigner and communicator. Further, he could be influenced positively in office.
If none of that is shown to hold true in reality then his downfall will be swift and merciless.
The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.
Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.
Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.
There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisis
Pity is the emotion that politicians fear most. Not that Boris Johnson deserves any.
As the weekend polls will show Boris won't need any, Corbyn might though and I will have no sympathy for him certainly
If the polls are good for him why will Labour give him an election?
This is a very tory problem it has festered in their party for many years but in 2015 David Cameron in the sole interest of the Conservative party decided to offer a referendum on EO membership, he won the election and one side went into it believing they couldnt lose and therefore did no planning for leave and the other side did no planning for leave because they didn’t think the could win. Cameron said I’m fucking off you can sort the mess and the conservatives decided to put May into pole position. She realized that her party couldn’t deliver a Tory solution so went to the country only to be put in a worse position. She formed a government with the support of the DUP and went out and negotiated a TORY brexit deal which was her responsibility as PM of a government that on paper commanded the majority of the house.
Her own party from both sides failed to support her, nothing to do with the opposition she is PM because she commands the house. The traitors in the ERG and those on the other side got off scot fore for their being traitors and hid behind blaming everybody else.
We now move on to someone who now sacks the people who weren’t traitors and rewards those that were. This is a very Tory problem and whilst I doubt they will pay at the ballot box they really don’t deserve to even come within two votes of a parish council seat.
The vast majority of Tory MPs voted for the Withdrawal Agreement at least once and against further extension.
Those who are responsible for betraying the will of the people are almost entirely on the Opposition benches and led by Jeremy Corbyn and Corbyn's day of reckoning will soon have arrived
I am a one nation conservative, not a Farage tribute act, and support the 100 conservatives/or sacked conservatives who I hope rebel in a block and create their own movement, and by the way, see the end to this disastrous brexit earthquake and engineer either a soft brexit or even remain I am bitterly upset at what is happening but in the end decency will prevail as we start to slowly heal the wounds both in the UK and the EU and restore international friendships and our reputation. I no longer want to be associated with those who would create division and hatred against so many here and abroad And I even accept that could be under Corbyn, but if it is, Boris, the ERG and yourself are all responsible for the economic armagedon that would follow him in office
If you refuse to respect the Brexit vote and Leave Deal or No Deal then sadly BigG you are now a LD, not a conservative
Indeed, my dear old HY! Lots and lots of Conservative voters are giving up on the party run by Mr Cumming, and falling in with the Lib Dems.
After all, the Lib Dems are the only nation-wide party with any sense of economic responsibility. With concern for the environment and the future of the planet. With a profound respect for personal liberty and for fair play. All the things that moderate Conservatives used to say they stood for.
+1
-1
True Conservatives will stay in the party’s outer orbit and fight to maintain it as a broad church, anchored to the principles of conservatism and realism it has always espoused.
Being a Philadelphia lawyer I'm horrified by the complete misuse of police officers to provide a backdrop to what Boris himself described as the first day of the General Election. It's Banana Republic stuff. On the same day Rees-Mogg abused parliamentary privilege to smear a political opponent it just adds to the sense of complete unravelling of norms. Voting tactically for the Labour candidate in my Con held marginal ( anyone up for a vote swap ? ) while Jeremy Corbyn is leader is so grave a step I won't decide till polling day morning. However it does feel that this situation has ' gone nuclear ' and all there is left to do is order the counter strike from the bunker.
I recall Tony Blair spending first day of an election campaign at a school with children as a backdrop. Is that better?
I am a one nation conservative, not a Farage tribute act, and support the 100 conservatives/or sacked conservatives who I hope rebel in a block and create their own movement, and by the way, see the end to this disastrous brexit earthquake and engineer either a soft brexit or even remain I am bitterly upset at what is happening but in the end decency will prevail as we start to slowly heal the wounds both in the UK and the EU and restore international friendships and our reputation. I no longer want to be associated with those who would create division and hatred against so many here and abroad And I even accept that could be under Corbyn, but if it is, Boris, the ERG and yourself are all responsible for the economic armagedon that would follow him in office
If you refuse to respect the Brexit vote and Leave Deal or No Deal then sadly BigG you are now a LD, not a conservative
Indeed, my dear old HY! Lots and lots of Conservative voters are giving up on the party run by Mr Cumming, and falling in with the Lib Dems.
After all, the Lib Dems are the only nation-wide party with any sense of economic responsibility. With concern for the environment and the future of the planet. With a profound respect for personal liberty and for fair play. All the things that moderate Conservatives used to say they stood for.
+1
-1
True Conservatives will stay in the party’s outer orbit and fight to maintain it as a broad church, anchored to the principles of conservatism and realism it has always espoused.
So your premise is that even if a party fundamentally changes someone is duty bound to stay with it? That's an argument that parties have a divine right to exist, that no one should ever leave Labour or the Tories to stand for something they actually believe in, they have to stay with the 'correct' party and fight a long, possibly hopeless battle to change it back.
I can see why the big two are so fond of such an attitude, it means even people who detest what they have become should stay and vote for them.
The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.
Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.
Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.
There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisis
Pity is the emotion that politicians fear most. Not that Boris Johnson deserves any.
As the weekend polls will show Boris won't need any, Corbyn might though and I will have no sympathy for him certainly
If the polls are good for him why will Labour give him an election?
Quite. If the polls are terrible there is no incentive to go for an election. That was the same for a government before the FTPA and is equally true of the opposition now. If HY is right it is much less likely there will be an election so current polling matters not a bit.
This is a very tory problem it has festered in their party for many years but in 2015 David Cameron in the sole interest of the Conservative party decided to offer a referendum on EO membership, he won the election and one side went into it believing they couldnt lose and therefore did no planning for leave and the other side did no planning for leave because they didn’t think the could win. Cameron said I’m fucking off you can sort the mess and the conservatives decided to put May into pole position. She realized that her party couldn’t deliver a Tory solution so went to the country only to be put in a worse position. She formed a government with the support of the DUP and went out and negotiated a TORY brexit deal which was her responsibility as PM of a government that on paper commanded the majority of the house.
Her own party from both sides failed to support her, nothing to do with the opposition she is PM because she commands the house. The traitors in the ERG and those on the other side got off scot fore for their being traitors and hid behind blaming everybody else.
We now move on to someone who now sacks the people who weren’t traitors and rewards those that were. This is a very Tory problem and whilst I doubt they will pay at the ballot box they really don’t deserve to even come within two votes of a parish council seat.
The vast majority of Tory MPs voted for the Withdrawal Agreement at least once and against further extension.
Those who are responsible for betraying the will of the people are almost entirely on the Opposition benches and led by Jeremy Corbyn and Corbyn's day of reckoning will soon have arrived
You miss the whole point of the post it is a conservative problem because the Conservative party were not interested in doing anything other than a conservative brexit therefore the only blame is on a long history or conservative politicians who should shoulder the blame. They won’t because get it over with will win and I hope the Conservative party manage what the happens than it has in the last twenty years
The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.
Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.
Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.
There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisis
Pity is the emotion that politicians fear most. Not that Boris Johnson deserves any.
As the weekend polls will show Boris won't need any, Corbyn might though and I will have no sympathy for him certainly
If the polls are good for him why will Labour give him an election?
Quite. If the polls are terrible there is no incentive to go for an election. That was the same for a government before the FTPA and is equally true of the opposition now. If HY is right it is much less likely there will be an election so current polling matters not a bit.
The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.
Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.
Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.
There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisis
Pity is the emotion that politicians fear most. Not that Boris Johnson deserves any.
As the weekend polls will show Boris won't need any, Corbyn might though and I will have no sympathy for him certainly
If the polls are good for him why will Labour give him an election?
Quite. If the polls are terrible there is no incentive to go for an election. That was the same for a government before the FTPA and is equally true of the opposition now. If HY is right it is much less likely there will be an election so current polling matters not a bit.
That is all true.
And in addition, the only poll I have seen this week only gives the Tories a seven point lead, and even then most of the fieldwork is out of date (it doesn’t cover today’s omnishambles).
The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.
Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.
Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.
There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisis
Pity is the emotion that politicians fear most. Not that Boris Johnson deserves any.
As the weekend polls will show Boris won't need any, Corbyn might though and I will have no sympathy for him certainly
If the polls are good for him why will Labour give him an election?
Quite. If the polls are terrible there is no incentive to go for an election. That was the same for a government before the FTPA and is equally true of the opposition now. If HY is right it is much less likely there will be an election so current polling matters not a bit.
Not if SNP give Boris his mid Oct election.
Not happening . The opposition will agree an election but not till an extension has been agreed .
The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.
Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.
Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.
There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisis
Pity is the emotion that politicians fear most. Not that Boris Johnson deserves any.
Boris treated May poorly, plotted, undermined her and killed her premiership.
This is karma.
Boris isn’t getting any slack. The reason he isn’t getting any slack is because he’s narcissistic, nihilistic and amoral - and even borderline sociopathic.
He was elected because (notwithstanding all of that) MPs believed he was a good campaigner and communicator. Further, he could be influenced positively in office.
If none of that is shown to hold true in reality then his downfall will be swift and merciless.
I hope the real Tory party wakes-up and asserts itself.
This is a very tory problem it has festered in their party for many years but in 2015 David Cameron in the sole interest of the Conservative party decided to offer a referendum on EO membership, he won the election and one side went into it believing they couldnt lose and therefore did no planning for leave and the other side did no planning for leave because they didn’t think the could win. Cameron said I’m fucking off you can sort the mess and the conservatives decided to put May into pole position. She realized that her party couldn’t deliver a Tory solution so went to the country only to be put in a worse position. She formed a government with the support of the DUP and went out and negotiated a TORY brexit deal which was her responsibility as PM of a government that on paper commanded the majority of the house.
Her own party from both sides failed to support her, nothing to do with the opposition she is PM because she commands the house. The traitors in the ERG and those on the other side got off scot fore for their being traitors and hid behind blaming everybody else.
We now move on to someone who now sacks the people who weren’t traitors and rewards those that were. This is a very Tory problem and whilst I doubt they will pay at the ballot box they really don’t deserve to even come within two votes of a parish council seat.
The vast majority of Tory MPs voted for the Withdrawal Agreement at least once and against further extension.
Those who are responsible for betraying the will of the people are almost entirely on the Opposition benches and led by Jeremy Corbyn and Corbyn's day of reckoning will soon have arrived
You miss the whole point of the post it is a conservative problem because the Conservative party were not interested in doing anything other than a conservative brexit therefore the only blame is on a long history or conservative politicians who should shoulder the blame. They won’t because get it over with will win and I hope the Conservative party manage what the happens than it has in the last twenty years
21% of voters back No Deal as their first choice with YouGov today, 19% back Boris' renegotiated Withdrawal Agreement, 19% want to stay in the EU and only 12% want a soft Brexit and to stay in the single market and customs union.
So the Brexit the Tories are pushing for is actually what a plurality of voters want
It's interesting how the same people who said it was disgraceful to make a connection between John Bercow's political views and his wife's (who was intending to stand as a councillor in Westminster) are now making a big fuss over the connection between Boris and Jo Johnson's political views. I can't see how that isn't double standards.
I am a one nation conservative, not a Farage tribute act, and support the 100 conservatives/or sacked conservatives who I hope rebel in a block and create their own movement, and by the way, see the end to this disastrous brexit earthquake and engineer either a soft brexit or even remain I am bitterly upset at what is happening but in the end decency will prevail as we start to slowly heal the wounds both in the UK and the EU and restore international friendships and our reputation. I no longer want to be associated with those who would create division and hatred against so many here and abroad And I even accept that could be under Corbyn, but if it is, Boris, the ERG and yourself are all responsible for the economic armagedon that would follow him in office
If you refuse to respect the Brexit vote and Leave Deal or No Deal then sadly BigG you are now a LD, not a conservative
Indeed, my dear old HY! Lots and lots of Conservative voters are giving up on the party run by Mr Cumming, and falling in with the Lib Dems.
After all, the Lib Dems are the only nation-wide party with any sense of economic responsibility. With concern for the environment and the future of the planet. With a profound respect for personal liberty and for fair play. All the things that moderate Conservatives used to say they stood for.
+1
-1
True Conservatives will stay in the party’s outer orbit and fight to maintain it as a broad church, anchored to the principles of conservatism and realism it has always espoused.
So your premise is that even if a party fundamentally changes someone is duty bound to stay with it? That's an argument that parties have a divine right to exist, that no one should ever leave Labour or the Tories to stand for something they actually believe in, they have to stay with the 'correct' party and fight a long, possibly hopeless battle to change it back.
I can see why the big two are so fond of such an attitude, it means even people who detest what they have become should stay and vote for them.
The party hasn’t fundamentally changed. Yet. It’s in the process of a hostile takeover by entryists. And it’s very far from clear if that will succeed.
I’m arguing to stay and fight, and not cut and run.
This is a very tory problem it has festered in their party for many years but in 2015 David Cameron in the sole interest of the Conservative party decided to offer a referendum on EO membership, he won the election and one side went into it believing they couldnt lose and therefore did no planning for leave and the other side did no planning for leave because they didn’t think the could win. Cameron said I’m fucking off you can sort the mess and the conservatives decided to put May into pole position. She realized that her party couldn’t deliver a Tory solution so went to the country only to be put in a worse position. She formed a government with the support of the DUP and went out and negotiated a TORY brexit deal which was her responsibility as PM of a government that on paper commanded the majority of the house.
Her own party from both sides failed to support her, nothing to do with the opposition she is PM because she commands the house. The traitors in the ERG and those on the other side got off scot fore for their being traitors and hid behind blaming everybody else.
We now move on to someone who now sacks the people who weren’t traitors and rewards those that were. This is a very Tory problem and whilst I doubt they will pay at the ballot box they really don’t deserve to even come within two votes of a parish council seat.
The vast majority of Tory MPs voted for the Withdrawal Agreement at least once and against further extension.
Those who are responsible for betraying the will of the people are almost entirely on the Opposition benches and led by Jeremy Corbyn and Corbyn's day of reckoning will soon have arrived
You miss the whole point of the post it is a conservative problem because the Conservative party were not interested in doing anything other than a conservative brexit therefore the only blame is on a long history or conservative politicians who should shoulder the blame. They won’t because get it over with will win and I hope the Conservative party manage what the happens than it has in the last twenty years
21% of voters back No Deal as their first choice with YouGov today, 19% back Boris' renegotiated Withdrawal Agreement, 19% want to stay in the EU and only 12% want a soft Brexit and to stay in the single market and customs union.
So the Brexit the Tories are pushing for is actually what a plurality of voters want
The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.
Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.
Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.
There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisis
Pity is the emotion that politicians fear most. Not that Boris Johnson deserves any.
As the weekend polls will show Boris won't need any, Corbyn might though and I will have no sympathy for him certainly
If the polls are good for him why will Labour give him an election?
Quite. If the polls are terrible there is no incentive to go for an election. That was the same for a government before the FTPA and is equally true of the opposition now. If HY is right it is much less likely there will be an election so current polling matters not a bit.
Not if SNP give Boris his mid Oct election.
Not happening . The opposition will agree an election but not till an extension has been agreed .
ITV news has reported today Boris will refuse to go to Brussels to ask for an extension even if the Commons votes for it and the Queen has to give it royal assent, Boris will ensure only the hands of Corbyn and diehard Remainers are on the betrayal of the will of the people, not his
It's interesting how the same people who said it was disgraceful to make a connection between John Bercow's political views and his wife's (who was intending to stand as a councillor in Westminster) are now making a big fuss over the connection between Boris and Jo Johnson's political views. I can't see how that isn't double standards.
I honestly don't have a clue what point you were trying to make there.
The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.
Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.
Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.
There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisis
Pity is the emotion that politicians fear most. Not that Boris Johnson deserves any.
As the weekend polls will show Boris won't need any, Corbyn might though and I will have no sympathy for him certainly
If the polls are good for him why will Labour give him an election?
Quite. If the polls are terrible there is no incentive to go for an election. That was the same for a government before the FTPA and is equally true of the opposition now. If HY is right it is much less likely there will be an election so current polling matters not a bit.
Not if SNP give Boris his mid Oct election.
Not happening . The opposition will agree an election but not till an extension has been agreed .
ITV news has reported today Boris will refuse to go to Brussels to ask for an extension even if the Commons votes for it and the Queen has to give it royal assent, Boris will ensure only the hands of Corbyn and diehard Remainers are on the betrayal of the will of the people, not his
What’s he going to do? Resign and let Jezza into no.10?
I just added Michael Gove at 35/1 as next PM to my book, with Ladbrokes (boosted).
Yes, he isn’t particularly trusted either. But he has appeal to both wings of the party, he’s a realist and the personal attack on him by Bercow the other day won’t have done him any disfavours.
If Boris does get ejected he might just be able to cobble something together and is flexible enough to compromise.
If you refuse to respect the Brexit vote and Leave Deal or No Deal then sadly BigG you are now a LD, not a conservative
Indeed, my dear old HY! Lots and lots of Conservative voters are giving up on the party run by Mr Cumming, and falling in with the Lib Dems.
After all, the Lib Dems are the only nation-wide party with any sense of economic responsibility. With concern for the environment and the future of the planet. With a profound respect for personal liberty and for fair play. All the things that moderate Conservatives used to say they stood for.
+1
-1
True Conservatives will stay in the party’s outer orbit and fight to maintain it as a broad church, anchored to the principles of conservatism and realism it has always espoused.
So your premise is that even if a party fundamentally changes someone is duty bound to stay with it? That's an argument that parties have a divine right to exist, that no one should ever leave Labour or the Tories to stand for something they actually believe in, they have to stay with the 'correct' party and fight a long, possibly hopeless battle to change it back.
I can see why the big two are so fond of such an attitude, it means even people who detest what they have become should stay and vote for them.
The party hasn’t fundamentally changed. Yet. It’s in the process of a hostile takeover by entryists. And it’s very far from clear if that will succeed.
I’m arguing to stay and fight, and not cut and run.
In your opinion it has not fundamentally changed. Others apparently disagree. Perhaps they have miscalculated, although given how popular Boris is I don't see why that is the case. But your argument to stay in the 'outer orbit' and fight, that that is what 'true Conservatives' will do, seems pretty clear you think anyone who cannot bear being in the outer orbit will always be wrong because they have left.
How long should they attempt such a fight? How long is long enough in the outer orbit? It seems mightily reminiscent of all those Labour MPs who loved to moan about Jeremy Corbyn but still happy to attempt to put him in power, making their words seem awfully hollow.
The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.
Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.
Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.
There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisis
Pity is the emotion that politicians fear most. Not that Boris Johnson deserves any.
Boris treated May poorly, plotted, undermined her and killed her premiership.
This is karma.
Boris isn’t getting any slack. The reason he isn’t getting any slack is because he’s narcissistic, nihilistic and amoral - and even borderline sociopathic.
He was elected because (notwithstanding all of that) MPs believed he was a good campaigner and communicator. Further, he could be influenced positively in office.
If none of that is shown to hold true in reality then his downfall will be swift and merciless.
I hope the real Tory party wakes-up and asserts itself.
There's about as much chance of that as of the real Labour Party waking up and asserting itself.
The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.
Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.
Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.
There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisis
Pity is the emotion that politicians fear most. Not that Boris Johnson deserves any.
As the weekend polls will show Boris won't need any, Corbyn might though and I will have no sympathy for him certainly
If the polls are good for him why will Labour give him an election?
Quite. If the polls are terrible there is no incentive to go for an election. That was the same for a government before the FTPA and is equally true of the opposition now. If HY is right it is much less likely there will be an election so current polling matters not a bit.
Not if SNP give Boris his mid Oct election.
Not happening . The opposition will agree an election but not till an extension has been agreed .
ITV news has reported today Boris will refuse to go to Brussels to ask for an extension even if the Commons votes for it and the Queen has to give it royal assent, Boris will ensure only the hands of Corbyn and diehard Remainers are on the betrayal of the will of the people, not his
What’s he going to do? Resign and let Jezza into no.10?
No, stay in No 10 and refuse to move and ask Brussels for an extension and he cannot be forced out unless he loses a VONC leading to a general election unless an alternative PM is agreed in 14 days
They knew there was a three-line-whip and what the consequences were. It isn't as if Boris removed the whip without warning that would be the consequences they were told it was a confidence vote and they made their choice.
They betrayed the party worse than "the bastards" did in 1993.
I am from the TM camp dedicated to public service and loyalty and I would have voted with the government even though I would have been conflicted. However to throw out 21 mps is a step too far and they should be reinstated
Had IDS, Redwood, Cash and 18 other "bastards" voted down Maastricht in 1993 after Major made it a confidence vote would they have been thrown out of the party?
Was Ken Clarke prepared to throw them out of the party?
The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.
Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.
Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.
There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisis
Pity is the emotion that politicians fear most. Not that Boris Johnson deserves any.
As the weekend polls will show Boris won't need any, Corbyn might though and I will have no sympathy for him certainly
If the polls are good for him why will Labour give him an election?
Quite. If the polls are terrible there is no incentive to go for an election. That was the same for a government before the FTPA and is equally true of the opposition now. If HY is right it is much less likely there will be an election so current polling matters not a bit.
Not if SNP give Boris his mid Oct election.
Not happening . The opposition will agree an election but not till an extension has been agreed .
ITV news has reported today Boris will refuse to go to Brussels to ask for an extension even if the Commons votes for it and the Queen has to give it royal assent, Boris will ensure only the hands of Corbyn and diehard Remainers are on the betrayal of the will of the people, not his
One person who has been quiet is Jeremy Hunt. I wonder what he thinks right now, given how often he switches position.
I’ve put a fiver on him too at 66/1 on the basis that it’d royally piss off Boris - all sides of the house might enjoy that - particularly with the lack of magnanimity shown to him following his victory.
This is a very tory problem it has festered in their party for many years but in 2015 David Cameron in the sole interest of the Conservative party decided to offer a referendum on EO membership, he won the election and one side went into it believing they couldnt lose and therefore did no planning for leave and the other side did no planning for leave because they didn’t think the could win. Cameron said I’m fucking off you can sort the mess and the conservatives decided to put May into pole position. She realized that her party couldn’t deliver a Tory solution so went to the country only to be put in a worse position. She formed a government with the
Her own party from both sides failed to support her, nothing to do with the opposition she is PM because she commands the house. The traitors in the ERG and those on the other side got off scot fore for their being traitors and hid behind blaming everybody else.
We now move on to someone who now sacks the people who weren’t traitors and rewards those that were. This is a very Tory problem and whilst I doubt they will pay at the ballot box they really don’t deserve to even come within two votes of a parish council seat.
The vast majority of Tory MPs voted for the Withdrawal Agreement at least once and against further extension.
Those who are responsible for betraying the will of the people are almost entirely on the Opposition benches and led by Jeremy Corbyn and Corbyn's day of reckoning will soon have arrived
You miss the whole point of the post it is a conservative problem because the Conservative party were not interested in doing anything other than a conservative brexit therefore the only blame is on a long history or conservative politicians who should shoulder the blame. They won’t because get it over with will win and I hope the Conservative party manage what the happens than it has in the last twenty years
21% of voters back No Deal as their first choice with YouGov today, 19% back Boris' renegotiated Withdrawal Agreement, 19% want to stay in the EU and only 12% want a soft Brexit and to stay in the single market and customs union.
So the Brexit the Tories are pushing for is actually what a plurality of voters want
You know, I don’t give a shit about opinion polls I believe values, principles and honesty count for far more. Yes he will win, I think, by conning the electorate that he will get it over with but it won’t stop me thinking that he is only interested in Johnson and you are only interested in the Tory party.
One person who has been quiet is Jeremy Hunt. I wonder what he thinks right now, given how often he switches position.
I’ve put a fiver on him too at 66/1 on the basis that it’d royally piss off Boris - all sides of the house might enjoy that - particularly with the lack of magnanimity shown to him following his victory.
They knew there was a three-line-whip and what the consequences were. It isn't as if Boris removed the whip without warning that would be the consequences they were told it was a confidence vote and they made their choice.
They betrayed the party worse than "the bastards" did in 1993.
I am from the TM camp dedicated to public service and loyalty and I would have voted with the government even though I would have been conflicted. However to throw out 21 mps is a step too far and they should be reinstated
Had IDS, Redwood, Cash and 18 other "bastards" voted down Maastricht in 1993 after Major made it a confidence vote would they have been thrown out of the party?
Was Ken Clarke prepared to throw them out of the party?
Would you have called that a step too far?
Why go back that far? Half the current cabinet should have been chucked out of the party for what they did to May.
No, stay in No 10 and refuse to move and ask Brussels for an extension and he cannot be forced out unless he loses a VONC leading to a general election unless an alternative PM is agreed in 14 days
Genuine question open to all: what would happen if Boris ignored this law?
If you refuse to respect the Brexit vote and Leave Deal or No Deal then sadly BigG you are now a LD, not a conservative
Indeed, my dear old HY! Lots and lots of Conservative voters are giving up on the party run by Mr Cumming, and falling in with the Lib Dems.
After all, the Lib Dems are the only nation-wide party with any sense of economic responsibility. With concern for the environment and the future of the planet. With a profound respect for personal liberty and for fair play. All the things that moderate Conservatives used to say they stood for.
+1
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True Conservatives will stay in the party’s outer orbit and fight to maintain it as a broad church, anchored to the principles of conservatism and realism it has always espoused.
them.
The party hasn’t fundamentally changed. Yet. It’s in the process of a hostile takeover by entryists. And it’s very far from clear if that will succeed.
I’m arguing to stay and fight, and not cut and run.
In your opinion it has not fundamentally changed. Others apparently disagree. Perhaps they have miscalculated, although given how popular Boris is I don't see why that is the case. But your argument to stay in the 'outer orbit' and fight, that that is what 'true Conservatives' will do, seems pretty clear you think anyone who cannot bear being in the outer orbit will always be wrong because they have left.
How long should they attempt such a fight? How long is long enough in the outer orbit? It seems mightily reminiscent of all those Labour MPs who loved to moan about Jeremy Corbyn but still happy to attempt to put him in power, making their words seem awfully hollow.
Nope. You’re fighting a straw man.
Ken Clarke, Philip Hammond, Nicholas Soames and Dominic Grieve (lifelong Conservatives) have chosen to stay and fight rather than defect to a party - the Liberal Democrats - that holds very different principles. They are in different category to Heidi Allen and Sarah Wollaston, who’ve never been convincing Conservatives.
And it’s not clear Boris is all that popular either, so the fight is very far from forlorn.
Your final sentence is a massive non sequitur, which isn’t worthy of a response.
The outrage over this is pretty obviously a partisan level one. A Conservative would defend it, and a Labour person condemn it, and if Corbyn were to give a speech in front of police officers Labour would defend it and a Conservative person condemn it.
Meh, I'm a Tory and I condemn it. Photoshoots with a couple of officers, fine... but having them all lined up behind you while you drone on about something unrelated to policing? There's something decidedly un-British about that.
Outliers in all things. Cannot say I like it either, but the level of outrage seems attached to people's dislike of Boris, it is all out of proportion.
There is a weird kind of piling on going on this week, it's very bizarre. I think it will go too far at some point and a sympathy response kick in. It's a feeding frenzy right now which is unseemly in a time of crisis
Pity is the emotion that politicians fear most. Not that Boris Johnson deserves any.
As the weekend polls will show Boris won't need any, Corbyn might though and I will have no sympathy for him certainly
If the polls are good for him why will Labour give him an election?
Quite. If the polls are terrible there is no incentive to go for an election. That was the same for a government before the FTPA and is equally true of the opposition now. If HY is right it is much less likely there will be an election so current polling matters not a bit.
Not if SNP give Boris his mid Oct election.
Not happening . The opposition will agree an election but not till an extension has been agreed .
ITV news has reported today Boris will refuse to go to Brussels to ask for an extension even if the Commons votes for it and the Queen has to give it royal assent, Boris will ensure only the hands of Corbyn and diehard Remainers are on the betrayal of the will of the people, not his
What’s he going to do? Resign and let Jezza into no.10?
No, stay in No 10 and refuse to move and ask Brussels for an extension and he cannot be forced out unless he loses a VONC leading to a general election unless an alternative PM is agreed in 14 days
Comments
Labour politician in doesn't like Boris shocker.
They would not have been sacked by the deranged Cummings if they had voted for the bill
As for the announcement, it confirms that visa-free visits will still be possible. That's probably of interest to quite a few people.
As well as disrupting businesses planning and stockpiling while forcing them to do it again in full knowledge that nothing will change by January with Christmas in the middle.
Its pathetic. And those suggesting we do this to the country to try and make a Tory PM squirm are despicable and will be seen through by the sane members of the public who reject this insanity.
Which, if he does it, wins the election. Man of his word on Brexit = votes
This is karma.
They betrayed the party worse than "the bastards" did in 1993.
Ken Clarke presumably agreed with removing the whip from MPs who vote the 'wrong' way against the party in Europe then - what's changed since? Why shouldn't Ken Clarke face the same sanction he was happy to see doled out to anyone who rebelled against Maastricht in 1993?
After all, the Lib Dems are the only nation-wide party with any sense of economic responsibility. With concern for the environment and the future of the planet. With a profound respect for personal liberty and for fair play. All the things that moderate Conservatives used to say they stood for.
What actually is happening is Boris is building a Tory lead May lost ready to finally deliver the Leave vote the diehard Remainers in Parliament have refused to respect
I wonder how they’re feeling today?
'You think we need to care about these arbitrary numbers when we're so far ahead?'
https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/1169598068750200832?s=20
https://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/1169664123745054727?s=20
Cameron said I’m fucking off you can sort the mess and the conservatives decided to put May into pole position. She realized that her party couldn’t deliver a Tory solution so went to the country only to be put in a worse position. She formed a government with the support of the DUP and went out and negotiated a TORY brexit deal which was her responsibility as PM of a government that on paper commanded the majority of the house.
Her own party from both sides failed to support her, nothing to do with the opposition she is PM because she commands the house. The traitors in the ERG and those on the other side got off scot fore for their being traitors and hid behind blaming everybody else.
We now move on to someone who now sacks the people who weren’t traitors and rewards those that were. This is a very Tory problem and whilst I doubt they will pay at the ballot box they really don’t deserve to even come within two votes of a parish council seat.
He was elected because (notwithstanding all of that) MPs believed he was a good campaigner and communicator. Further, he could be influenced positively in office.
If none of that is shown to hold true in reality then his downfall will be swift and merciless.
Those who are responsible for betraying the will of the people are almost entirely on the Opposition benches and led by Jeremy Corbyn and Corbyn's day of reckoning will soon have arrived
https://twitter.com/matthewlesh/status/1169523421669208064?s=20
True Conservatives will stay in the party’s outer orbit and fight to maintain it as a broad church, anchored to the principles of conservatism and realism it has always espoused.
I can see why the big two are so fond of such an attitude, it means even people who detest what they have become should stay and vote for them.
The Tories boxed in to a no deal manifesto pledge would be likely to get the BP to make way in certain seats .
That will scare off more moderate Tories . They maybe in a minority given current polling but still enough to cause the party a lot of problems .
If the Tories go into an election with still trying for a deal then the BP won’t be going anywhere .
The opposition need to close off the options for Bozo .
And in addition, the only poll I have seen this week only gives the Tories a seven point lead, and even then most of the fieldwork is out of date (it doesn’t cover today’s omnishambles).
In any case, polls are meaningless.
So the Brexit the Tories are pushing for is actually what a plurality of voters want
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/09/05/what-do-public-think-can-still-realistically-happe
https://twitter.com/sturdyalex/status/1169664123745054727?s=21
I’m arguing to stay and fight, and not cut and run.
Yes, he isn’t particularly trusted either. But he has appeal to both wings of the party, he’s a realist and the personal attack on him by Bercow the other day won’t have done him any disfavours.
If Boris does get ejected he might just be able to cobble something together and is flexible enough to compromise.
How long should they attempt such a fight? How long is long enough in the outer orbit? It seems mightily reminiscent of all those Labour MPs who loved to moan about Jeremy Corbyn but still happy to attempt to put him in power, making their words seem awfully hollow.
Was Ken Clarke prepared to throw them out of the party?
Would you have called that a step too far?
I can’t seem to find any detail on this point.
Ken Clarke, Philip Hammond, Nicholas Soames and Dominic Grieve (lifelong Conservatives) have chosen to stay and fight rather than defect to a party - the Liberal Democrats - that holds very different principles. They are in different category to Heidi Allen and Sarah Wollaston, who’ve never been convincing Conservatives.
And it’s not clear Boris is all that popular either, so the fight is very far from forlorn.
Your final sentence is a massive non sequitur, which isn’t worthy of a response.