What's horrific about MH370 is that if the plane flew on under autopilot till it crashed, then presumably the flight deck crew were dead or incapacitated. But the passengers were presumably alive and aware of what must happen for hours, until it did.
What's horrific about MH370 is that if the plane flew on under autopilot till it crashed, then presumably the flight deck crew were dead or incapacitated. But the passengers were presumably alive and aware of what must happen for hours, until it did.
Guido reporting that next years Ukip conference will be in Doncaster - Ed's day keeps on getting better ..
Its at the racecourse I think
Did Devon Loch ever run there?
Devon Lochs infamous belly flop was at Aintree in the Grand National...it was shot soon after. Though I am sure you can get a tenuous link to Crap Ed in there.
Not so.
Devon Loch was retired and lived on in retirement for seven years until 1964.
So, the YouGov MOE +1% lead, the Populus change of methodology +1% lead, and the Survation Labour increasing their VI 1% lead are all clear, definitive and unambiguous proof that Labour's VI has collapsed (especially the Survation one where it grew) and the Tories will win a majority of 982.
There absolutely definitely wasn't a Labour lead of +5% on Friday, and we haven't seen +1% Labour leads before ever ever ever because the trend is clearly Labour going down and other 1% leads jumping back up would disprove it therefore didn't happen. After all there's only one poll that counts so its perfectly logical to accept the few polls we like as Proof and ignore the multitude of polls we don't like as Wrong.
Does that just about sum up the level of pants-creaming from some?
Following form on here, if the next poll shows Labour 4%-6% ahead it will be totally ignored and the discussion will move on to kettles or granny knots or something else that has nothing to do with polls.
Isnt that what you're doing now? Avoiding discussing why this poll show Labours lead narrowing?
Why do you think it is? Not good for an opposition to have such a small lead a year before an election is it? If all recent history of polls 14 months out are to be believed it is terrible for Labour
And before you start throwing around PB this PB that, I have only ever voted Labour, never Conservative, and don't really care who out of the two wins next year
What's horrific about MH370 is that if the plane flew on under autopilot till it crashed, then presumably the flight deck crew were dead or incapacitated. But the passengers were presumably alive and aware of what must happen for hours, until it did.
It depends on whether the reports that the plane ascended to an altitude of 45,000 foot immediately after turning left over the South China Sea were true. And if so, how long the plane remained at this altitude.
The report of the FL450 altitude was based on primary radar detection of MH370's flight path by the Malaysian military immediately after the last known position was recorded by commercial air traffic control.
If the plane did reach that altitude, and if the cabin was decompressed and if it remained there for more than two minutes then all the passengers and cabin crew would likely have been knocked out by hypoxia. Apparently the drop down oxygen masks only provide around 12 minutes of oxygen supply to passengers and would not have worked effectively at FL450.
A pressure sealed mask with a different oxygen/air mix would have been needed to survive longer than 2 minutes or so. Such masks would have been available to the pilots but even they would have been time-limited in supply, around 60 minutes was the median estimate from the PPRuNe pilots.
What's horrific about MH370 is that if the plane flew on under autopilot till it crashed, then presumably the flight deck crew were dead or incapacitated. But the passengers were presumably alive and aware of what must happen for hours, until it did.
We may never know what happened.
Surely in 7 hrs you could smash the door in ??
And do what once you're in there?
Perhaps the explanation for the strange actions is someone trying to learn how to fly a commercial plane from scratch (I haven't followed the story closely enough to know if this makes any sense).
Entertaining though the poll frothing is, we do need to point to a few niggling facts:
1. We've had leads as low as zero before and repeatedly 1pt, and gone back every time to the usual 2-6pt Labour lead. Not sure why the current 1pt is any different 2. Labour remain comfortably within the 38 +/-2 range they've been in for ages. The Tories have moved up a touch seemingly at the expense of UKIP. Happily there isn't a Euro election this year otherwise we'd have to suffer Farage wall to wall reminding the Tory>Kipper switchers why they moved in the first place. Should such a thing be in the diary it wouldn't be unreasonable to think the weakening of the UKIP score was unproven in the long term.
Anyway, that Labour manifesto. It HAS to be bold. People are sick of voting in fear for the least worst option, they want someone defining whats wrong and offering a way out. The much derided "break up the big 6" policy on energy resonated, and as we have the Federation of Small Business supporting the OFGEM report which is about to call for a deeper Competition report into how to make the uncompetitive market competitive again, its only derided by people who would deride anything Labour said or did.
"break up the big 6" policy.
That's laughable. The Labour government oversaw the conglomeration of energy companies into the big six. They created the problem.
Anyone who thinks that Miliband knows anything about energy just needs to look at his time in charge of DECC, and his willingness to bend over backwards to get the approval of Z-list celebrities.
Two things matter: 1) Energy security. 2) Energy pricing.
In other words, to ensure that we have the capability for getting the raw materials, and converting it (refining/generating) to meet our needs at as cheap as price as possible.
Miliband seriously damaged both of these whilst at DECC. He's got no idea.
Following form on here, if the next poll shows Labour 4%-6% ahead it will be totally ignored and the discussion will move on to kettles or granny knots or something else that has nothing to do with polls.
What's horrific about MH370 is that if the plane flew on under autopilot till it crashed, then presumably the flight deck crew were dead or incapacitated. But the passengers were presumably alive and aware of what must happen for hours, until it did.
It depends on whether the reports that the plane ascended to an altitude of 45,000 foot immediately after turning left over the South China Sea were true. And if so, how long the plane remained at this altitude.
The report of the FL450 altitude was based on primary radar detection of MH370's flight path by the Malaysian military immediately after the last known position was recorded by commercial air traffic control.
If the plane did reach that altitude, and if the cabin was decompressed and if it remained there for more than two minutes then all the passengers and cabin crew would likely have been knocked out by hypoxia. Apparently the drop down oxygen masks only provide around 12 minutes of oxygen supply to passengers and would not have worked effectively at FL450.
A pressure sealed mask with a different oxygen/air mix would have been needed to survive longer than 2 minutes or so. Such masks would have been available to the pilots but even they would have been time-limited in supply, around 60 minutes was the median estimate from the PPRuNe pilots.
Addendum
The likelihood that the pilots survived the full 60 minutes though is low as the rulebook response to a decompressed cabin would have been to bring the flight altitude down to 10,000 feet where an oxygen supply would not have been needed. This apparently did not happen although the plane was reported to have descended to around 23,500 foot.
Complaints from silverstone about possible Welsh circuit.
The latest scheme to breathe some life into the valleys (i.e. find something to replace the mines) was a big racing circuit that was going to provide thousands of jobs, lots of inflowing cash etc (colour me a little skeptical on some of the claims made), built partly with government funding.
The representatives of other racing tracks in the UK say building it will damage motor sport in the UK, and government funding would be unfair and illegal.
Another poor poll today for Labour but let's not jump to conclusions - need to clarify if this is a blip or a trend?
I would urge caution - the PB Tories' (and boy there are a lot of them on this site) shrieks of joy may be shortlived...
Clearly you are correct to caution against reading too much into a single poll. However this is not a single poll showing a Labour dip.
The immediate short term post budget and year long trend is for Labour to be edging south. If this trend is not arrested then this Labour opposition will go the way of the others in the past 30 years and lose the coming general election handily.
What's horrific about MH370 is that if the plane flew on under autopilot till it crashed, then presumably the flight deck crew were dead or incapacitated. But the passengers were presumably alive and aware of what must happen for hours, until it did.
It depends on whether the reports that the plane ascended to an altitude of 45,000 foot immediately after turning left over the South China Sea were true. And if so, how long the plane remained at this altitude.
The report of the FL450 altitude was based on primary radar detection of MH370's flight path by the Malaysian military immediately after the last known position was recorded by commercial air traffic control.
If the plane did reach that altitude, and if the cabin was decompressed and if it remained there for more than two minutes then all the passengers and cabin crew would likely have been knocked out by hypoxia. Apparently the drop down oxygen masks only provide around 12 minutes of oxygen supply to passengers and would not have worked effectively at FL450.
A pressure sealed mask with a different oxygen/air mix would have been needed to survive longer than 2 minutes or so. Such masks would have been available to the pilots but even they would have been time-limited in supply, around 60 minutes was the median estimate from the PPRuNe pilots.
IANAE, but I believe there are problems with a 777 flying at 45,000 feet for such long periods as its service ceiling is 43,500 (or 43,100 according to other sources). The higher you go, the thinner the air, and the plane's stall speed approaches the plane's critical Mach number. This problem is colloquially known as 'Coffin corner'. Given the plane had a large load of passengers, baggage and fuel, in my inexpert way I doubt they would have been able to keep at that level for long.
ISTR that this is slightly dependent on climatic conditions.
Guido reporting that next years Ukip conference will be in Doncaster - Ed's day keeps on getting better ..
Its at the racecourse I think
Did Devon Loch ever run there?
Devon Lochs infamous belly flop was at Aintree in the Grand National...it was shot soon after. Though I am sure you can get a tenuous link to Crap Ed in there.
Not so.
Devon Loch was retired and lived on in retirement for seven years until 1964.
the PB Tories' (and boy there are a lot of them on this site) ...
This claim seems odd considering such as Plato have left because the site is so left wing.
Perhaps it only seems full of Tories since tim got booted. Without all his noise, one can discern more of the signal.
LOL - did she seriously leave because she thought this site for too left-wing? Anyway, the site is a LOT better without her - she was the nastiest Tory toll out there (e.g. agreeing with the Tory tw*t Aidan Burley on the opening ceremony of the London Olympics).
Guido reporting that next years Ukip conference will be in Doncaster - Ed's day keeps on getting better ..
Its at the racecourse I think
Did Devon Loch ever run there?
Devon Lochs infamous belly flop was at Aintree in the Grand National...it was shot soon after. Though I am sure you can get a tenuous link to Crap Ed in there.
Not so.
Devon Loch was retired and lived on in retirement for seven years until 1964.
What's horrific about MH370 is that if the plane flew on under autopilot till it crashed, then presumably the flight deck crew were dead or incapacitated. But the passengers were presumably alive and aware of what must happen for hours, until it did.
We may never know what happened.
Surely in 7 hrs you could smash the door in ??
And do what once you're in there?
Perhaps the explanation for the strange actions is someone trying to learn how to fly a commercial plane from scratch (I haven't followed the story closely enough to know if this makes any sense).
That was the cause of the Aeroflot 593 crash in 1994, an Airbus A310 on a Moscow to Hong Kong flight. Five people were found by the crash investigators in the cockpit including the pilot's daughter and 17 year old son.
It was widely reported that the pilot's son was being given a flying lesson when the plane crashed. The daughter was up first and the pilot made her movements on the control column appear as if they were controlling the flight by instructing the flight management system to bank the plane.
When his son took over his movement of the control column was so extreme that it overrode the autopilot placing the plane into manual control. After a series of warnings, the plane went into a diving spin. The official pilots did manage to take over and gain some control, but it was too late to avoid a crash.
All 75 people on board were killed, one of them a business contact, a young Ad agency account manager who was travelling to Hong Kong for its Rugby sevens tournament.
Hmm. There's vague musing on the Sky F1 site that Hamilton may get a penalty following his mechanical woe in Australia. I think that'd be ridiculous as the problem has cost him probably 25 and at least 18 points already.
On the other hand, I've backed Rosberg for the title and a small penalty of, say, 27 places and a drive-through would help that position.
BREAKING NEWS The following SMS message has been sent to relatives: "Malaysia Airlines deeply regrets that we have to assume beyond any reasonable doubt that MH370 has been lost and that none of those on board survived. As you will hear in the next hour from Malaysia's Prime Minister, we must now accept all evidence suggests the plane went down in the Southern Indian Ocean.
BREAKING NEWS The following SMS message has been sent to relatives: "Malaysia Airlines deeply regrets that we have to assume beyond any reasonable doubt that MH370 has been lost and that none of those on board survived. As you will hear in the next hour from Malaysia's Prime Minister, we must now accept all evidence suggests the plane went down in the Southern Indian Ocean.
What's horrific about MH370 is that if the plane flew on under autopilot till it crashed, then presumably the flight deck crew were dead or incapacitated. But the passengers were presumably alive and aware of what must happen for hours, until it did.
We may never know what happened.
Surely in 7 hrs you could smash the door in ??
And do what once you're in there?
Perhaps the explanation for the strange actions is someone trying to learn how to fly a commercial plane from scratch (I haven't followed the story closely enough to know if this makes any sense).
That was the cause of the Aeroflot 593 crash in 1994, an Airbus A310 on a Moscow to Hong Kong flight. Five people were found by the crash investigators in the cockpit including the pilot's daughter and 17 year old son.
It was widely reported that the pilot's son was being given a flying lesson when the plane crashed. The daughter was up first and the pilot made her movements on the control column appear as if they were controlling the flight by instructing the flight management system to bank the plane.
When his son took over his movement of the control column was so extreme that it overrode the autopilot placing the plane into manual control. After a series of warnings, the plane went into a diving spin. The official pilots did manage to take over and gain some control, but it was too late to avoid a crash.
All 75 people on board were killed, one of them a business contact, a young Ad agency account manager who was travelling to Hong Kong for its Rugby sevens tournament.
The copilot was an experienced pilot on other types, and had many flying hours in his logbook. It'll end up being irrelevant, and is just another attempt to transfer blame onto the pilots for what is likely a mechanical or maintenance failure.
As I've said passim, in the absence of other information, expect the blame to head towards the pilots. This shifting of blame has cost lives in the past when the real problem turned out to be mechanical ...
Isam - It is a budget bounce. We will see what polls bring over the next few days.
Not quite so overconfident now eh Compouter...... All this nonsense about PB Hodges and the like and Nick Palmer stating37% solid Labour, . If ICM came out now with those Populus figures I reckon the Tories might have a slight lead.
Astounding scientific achievement (however odd it might sound) by Inmarsat to come up with new techniques to track down the correct flight path from such sparse data.
the PB Tories' (and boy there are a lot of them on this site) ...
This claim seems odd considering such as Plato have left because the site is so left wing.
Perhaps it only seems full of Tories since tim got booted. Without all his noise, one can discern more of the signal.
LOL - did she seriously leave because she thought this site for too left-wing? Anyway, the site is a LOT better without her - she was the nastiest Tory toll out there (e.g. agreeing with the Tory tw*t Aidan Burley on the opening ceremony of the London Olympics).
As an infrequent "PB Tory" poster, I'd estimate there's a 2:1 bias to the right on here (maybe 5:3). It's certainly not enough to turn PB into a boring echo chamber, as every thread shows.
More intelligent lefties would still be beneficial. And yes, I know that's an ambiguous statement.
BREAKING NEWS The following SMS message has been sent to relatives: "Malaysia Airlines deeply regrets that we have to assume beyond any reasonable doubt that MH370 has been lost and that none of those on board survived. As you will hear in the next hour from Malaysia's Prime Minister, we must now accept all evidence suggests the plane went down in the Southern Indian Ocean.
... Everybody assumes that Gordon Brown was a disaster and how Labour must surely do better under anyone other than Gordon. Well, maybe. Gordon was a weird sort, very difficult to connect with but driven by a ferocious personal ambition to get to the top. As is Ed Miliband.
What Gordon could offer though was an argument that he had saved the world in its darkest financial crisis of our life time. When he went to the country in May 2010, he had (admittedly by manipulating the system for his own political ends) delivered a growing economy (albeit one where "sustainable" was never able to be uttered).
And there were people who voted for Gordon Brown on the basis that he had saved the UK from the brink of financial armageddon. I met them on the doorstep in 2010. The current Labour Party does not have that to offer in 2015. Quite the reverse - they have been shown to be continually wrong in how they would have dealt with the economy since 2010.
If it is "the economy, stupid", then in 2015 Labour is arguably more exposed than it was in 2010. Ed Miliband and Ed Balls have spent 4 years getting it badly wrong. I see little to no evidence that they have any idea how to address the voters' concerns about their management of the economy, just at the time when the Toffs will again be showing they don't know much - but they know about money.
The electorate seem to have a better judgement of Osborne now then they had on Darling. Cable's star has waned - perhaps Mr Smithson is right to argue he should not be the designated Lib Dem CoE in waiting. While the Coalition complicates comparisons with 2010, the electorate has notably less confidence in Labour now then they had in 2010.
Thus the polling appears to be roughly in line with MarqueeMark's argument. In 2015 we may be left concluding that Brown's leadership was not Labour's nadir after all.
I think it's very unlikely the passengers were alive for the entire length of the flight. Surely if they were they could have broken down the cockpit door over several hours.
What's horrific about MH370 is that if the plane flew on under autopilot till it crashed, then presumably the flight deck crew were dead or incapacitated. But the passengers were presumably alive and aware of what must happen for hours, until it did.
We may never know what happened.
Surely in 7 hrs you could smash the door in ??
And do what once you're in there?
Perhaps the explanation for the strange actions is someone trying to learn how to fly a commercial plane from scratch (I haven't followed the story closely enough to know if this makes any sense).
That was the cause of the Aeroflot 593 crash in 1994, an Airbus A310 on a Moscow to Hong Kong flight. Five people were found by the crash investigators in the cockpit including the pilot's daughter and 17 year old son.
It was widely reported that the pilot's son was being given a flying lesson when the plane crashed. The daughter was up first and the pilot made her movements on the control column appear as if they were controlling the flight by instructing the flight management system to bank the plane.
When his son took over his movement of the control column was so extreme that it overrode the autopilot placing the plane into manual control. After a series of warnings, the plane went into a diving spin. The official pilots did manage to take over and gain some control, but it was too late to avoid a crash.
All 75 people on board were killed, one of them a business contact, a young Ad agency account manager who was travelling to Hong Kong for its Rugby sevens tournament.
The copilot was an experienced pilot on other types, and had many flying hours in his logbook. It'll end up being irrelevant, and is just another attempt to transfer blame onto the pilots for what is likely a mechanical or maintenance failure.
As I've said passim, in the absence of other information, expect the blame to head towards the pilots. This shifting of blame has cost lives in the past when the real problem turned out to be mechanical ...
JJ
I am not suggesting at all that the causes of the Aeroflot flight crash are in any way similar to the unknown causes of MH370's crash. I was just responding to BJB's speculation with a "well, it has happened" example.
On 45,000 foot altitude being outside the B777-200's service limit, this was endlessly discussed on PPRuNe with the general consensus being the plane could do it in extremis without too much risk of damage to the hull. The main debate was on whether the primary radar reports of the FL450 altitude were reliable.
Inmarsat in UK used innovative analysis to identify final location in middle of southern Indian Ocean...
That's it, I think!
I wonder how that's going down in SE Asia 'old colonial power to the rescue......'
Will be interesting to see what the AAIB analysis is - in this at least we still have world class capability.....its probably really only us, the NTSB and French BEA.......
Mr. Monkeys, worth mentioning that one of the most interesting parts of the discussions on the enormo-haddock blog is when we disagree. I think Mr. Putney and myself disagreed on almost every spread betting call (except that Maldonado and Grosjean really shouldn't be the same odds).
I think it's very unlikely the passengers were alive for the entire length of the flight. Surely if they were they could have broken down the cockpit door over several hours.
BREAKING NEWS The following SMS message has been sent to relatives: "Malaysia Airlines deeply regrets that we have to assume beyond any reasonable doubt that MH370 has been lost and that none of those on board survived. As you will hear in the next hour from Malaysia's Prime Minister, we must now accept all evidence suggests the plane went down in the Southern Indian Ocean.
I hope that we will never see a British company breaking that kind of news by SMS.
I was thinking that. That said, phone culture in Asia is very different. Maybe it extends to something like this.
I suspect it may have been the 'least worst' option.....with hundreds of people to contact, and as soon as the first one has heard it will be on the web......and then it'll be 'why did I hear from the internet and not the airline?'
I think it's very unlikely the passengers were alive for the entire length of the flight. Surely if they were they could have broken down the cockpit door over several hours.
On the subject of polling on economic spokesmen, I sat upright when I saw yesterday's polling on George Osborne, with 41% saying he's doing well as Chancellor and 47% saying he's doing badly. That has to rank as one of the best comebacks since Lazarus.
George Osborne's figures are, notably, almost identical to the responses to "Do you think the coalition government is managing the economy well or badly?" (42% well, 47% badly).
These are short track panels, and the rails will be replaced later with longer lengths suitable for welding.
I guess their first priority is to get the trains running, and then to sort out he road behind it afterwards. If the freakishly high estimates for what the closure's costing the southwest are true, then that makes sense.
Anecdotal, obviously, but advance bookings for my holiday let in west Cornwall are down 70% for the coming season versus last year. We've only let one week of Easter rather than the previously-reliable 3 weeks and that probably won't change now. Our agents are reporting the same across their portfolio of 120+ high end properties. Given that people staying in those properties drive a lot of the tourist spend in the area, you can see the scale of the impact.
Also stupid given that, almost without exception, people drive to get here. And the roads have remained fine.
We were thinking of doing a couple of weeks in Cornwall this summer - last two weeks of August. I had assumed, though, that there would be no chance of finding anywhere so have not bothered looking. Which agencies are the best to try?
@SO have a look at Cornish Gems. There's a good amount of August availability around, tbh the trend in the last 3 years has been more towards late booking even in summer so you should have plenty of choice. Further west is better....
Best online comment I've seen on the subject of the flight was on Facebook. A chap protested the plane may never be found as 'the Pacific Ocean is huge'
I think it's very unlikely the passengers were alive for the entire length of the flight. Surely if they were they could have broken down the cockpit door over several hours.
Or got a signal and called loved ones
The MH370 flight had no passenger wi-fi service and satellite telecomms were not available except to the pilots. This was pre-configured and an airline policy rather than a result of any in-flight event.
So the only opportunity the passengers might have had to use their cell phones was when the plane overflew the Malaysian peninsular after whatever event it was that caused the change in flightpath happened.
Even if passengers had attempted to use their phones it would not have been easy for them to establish any reliable connection in the circumstances although there may have been records of attempted connection attempts at the cell provider's ground stations.
More likely, the fact that we haven't heard of any attempt to connect indicates gives added support to the theory that hypoxia had got the passengers before the plane crossed Malaysia.
BREAKING NEWS The following SMS message has been sent to relatives: "Malaysia Airlines deeply regrets that we have to assume beyond any reasonable doubt that MH370 has been lost and that none of those on board survived. As you will hear in the next hour from Malaysia's Prime Minister, we must now accept all evidence suggests the plane went down in the Southern Indian Ocean.
I hope that we will never see a British company breaking that kind of news by SMS.
I was thinking that. That said, phone culture in Asia is very different. Maybe it extends to something like this.
It might be this: they made all possible attempts to get the families together for a meeting at short notice. Some could not be reached for whatever reason, and so they sent a text. The alternatives - releasing the information publicly, or delaying until (if?) all the families could be together - may have been seen as worse.
The Malaysians have been handling this very badly so far. The BBC just claimed that MI5 or 6 got involved, passing Inmarsat's information to the Americans, because the usual channels to the investigating authorities were not working.
Much kudos to Inmarsat who appear to have done some very ingenious data trawling, the AAIB for helping them, and especially the Australians for pulling out all the stops in the naval search.
On the subject of polling on economic spokesmen, I sat upright when I saw yesterday's polling on George Osborne, with 41% saying he's doing well as Chancellor and 47% saying he's doing badly. That has to rank as one of the best comebacks since Lazarus.
George Osborne's figures are, notably, almost identical to the responses to "Do you think the coalition government is managing the economy well or badly?" (42% well, 47% badly).
These are short track panels, and the rails will be replaced later with longer lengths suitable for welding.
I guess their first priority is to get the trains running, and then to sort out he road behind it afterwards. If the freakishly high estimates for what the closure's costing the southwest are true, then that makes sense.
Anecdotal, obviously, but advance bookings for my holiday let in west Cornwall are down 70% for the coming season versus last year. We've only let one week of Easter rather than the previously-reliable 3 weeks and that probably won't change now. Our agents are reporting the same across their portfolio of 120+ high end properties. Given that people staying in those properties drive a lot of the tourist spend in the area, you can see the scale of the impact.
Also stupid given that, almost without exception, people drive to get here. And the roads have remained fine.
We were thinking of doing a couple of weeks in Cornwall this summer - last two weeks of August. I had assumed, though, that there would be no chance of finding anywhere so have not bothered looking. Which agencies are the best to try?
@SO have a look at Cornish Gems. There's a good amount of August availability around, tbh the trend in the last 3 years has been more towards late booking even in summer so you should have plenty of choice. Further west is better....
What's horrific about MH370 is that if the plane flew on under autopilot till it crashed, then presumably the flight deck crew were dead or incapacitated. But the passengers were presumably alive and aware of what must happen for hours, until it did.
We may never know what happened.
Surely in 7 hrs you could smash the door in ??
And do what once you're in there?
Perhaps the explanation for the strange actions is someone trying to learn how to fly a commercial plane from scratch (I haven't followed the story closely enough to know if this makes any sense).
That was the cause of the Aeroflot 593 crash in 1994, an Airbus A310 on a Moscow to Hong Kong flight. Five people were found by the crash investigators in the cockpit including the pilot's daughter and 17 year old son.
It was widely reported that the pilot's son was being given a flying lesson when the plane crashed. The daughter was up first and the pilot made her movements on the control column appear as if they were controlling the flight by instructing the flight management system to bank the plane.
When his son took over his movement of the control column was so extreme that it overrode the autopilot placing the plane into manual control. After a series of warnings, the plane went into a diving spin. The official pilots did manage to take over and gain some control, but it was too late to avoid a crash.
All 75 people on board were killed, one of them a business contact, a young Ad agency account manager who was travelling to Hong Kong for its Rugby sevens tournament.
The copilot was an experienced pilot on other types, and had many flying hours in his logbook. It'll end up being irrelevant, and is just another attempt to transfer blame onto the pilots for what is likely a mechanical or maintenance failure.
As I've said passim, in the absence of other information, expect the blame to head towards the pilots. This shifting of blame has cost lives in the past when the real problem turned out to be mechanical ...
JJ
I am not suggesting at all that the causes of the Aeroflot flight crash are in any way similar to the unknown causes of MH370's crash. I was just responding to BJB's speculation with a "well, it has happened" example.
On 45,000 foot altitude being outside the B777-200's service limit, this was endlessly discussed on PPRuNe with the general consensus being the plane could do it in extremis without too much risk of damage to the hull. The main debate was on whether the primary radar reports of the FL450 altitude were reliable.
These are short track panels, and the rails will be replaced later with longer lengths suitable for welding.
I guess their first priority is to get the trains running, and then to sort out he road behind it afterwards. If the freakishly high estimates for what the closure's costing the southwest are true, then that makes sense.
Anecdotal, obviously, but advance bookings for my holiday let in west Cornwall are down 70% for the coming season versus last year. We've only let one week of Easter rather than the previously-reliable 3 weeks and that probably won't change now. Our agents are reporting the same across their portfolio of 120+ high end properties. Given that people staying in those properties drive a lot of the tourist spend in the area, you can see the scale of the impact.
Also stupid given that, almost without exception, people drive to get here. And the roads have remained fine.
We were thinking of doing a couple of weeks in Cornwall this summer - last two weeks of August. I had assumed, though, that there would be no chance of finding anywhere so have not bothered looking. Which agencies are the best to try?
@SO have a look at Cornish Gems. There's a good amount of August availability around, tbh the trend in the last 3 years has been more towards late booking even in summer so you should have plenty of choice. Further west is better....
''George Osborne's figures are, notably, almost identical to the responses to "Do you think the coalition government is managing the economy well or badly?" (42% well, 47% badly).''
Something in the Standard I read recently jumped out at me, namely economists expect wage settlements to start to outstrip inflation by autumn 2014.
Before I disappear to open the boozer to the Monday hordes, a thought on crossover. It might permeate the psyche and cause a level of 'protest over. Cling to nurse' as well as a hardening of the anti vote that remains 'in fear'. In other words, a hardening of the levels Lab and Con settle to and a further retraction of Lib Dem and Kipper intent. Or, it might not. Last orders at 11.30, see you tonight.
BREAKING NEWS The following SMS message has been sent to relatives: "Malaysia Airlines deeply regrets that we have to assume beyond any reasonable doubt that MH370 has been lost and that none of those on board survived. As you will hear in the next hour from Malaysia's Prime Minister, we must now accept all evidence suggests the plane went down in the Southern Indian Ocean.
"“Also, promise to make all the nice things cheaper. Dead millionaires and cheap nice things. That’s how you win elections.”"
Inheritance tax forgiveness on all redistributed funds from murdered hooray henrys as long as the recipient is able to say innit bro without looking like a dork
Incidentally, if anyone backed Rosberg and hasn't hedged yet you may wish to hold off until it becomes clear whether Hamilton's going to get a penalty. Whilst he'll cut his way through the field with ease it would give Rosberg a significant head start, and a midfield start always has the potential for woe (cf Massa last time).
Nobody on the Dutch side could put their finger in the dyke to stem the loss of wickets ....
I'll get my cricket box ....
Having once been top scorer with 4 (an edge) in a total of 22, I feel their pain We were chasing 312 (declared with ten overs remaining and rain threatening) League was restructured the next season and Pakistani under 18 test leg spinners no longer allowed to upset Dyedwoolie
Incidentally, if anyone backed Rosberg and hasn't hedged yet you may wish to hold off until it becomes clear whether Hamilton's going to get a penalty. Whilst he'll cut his way through the field with ease it would give Rosberg a significant head start, and a midfield start always has the potential for woe (cf Massa last time).
Mr Dancer: If I may be impertinent can I inquire how much you make gambling on F1, in a typical season? And how much is at risk? Genuinely curious, but understand if you wish to keep it under your hat.
Horrible for England - Lanka NRR will be off the chart.
A more pertinent question is whether Sri Lanka should be playing international cricket at all - after all they have been labelled as the Mahinda Rajapakse XI.
It should be noted that the Sri Lankan team will arrive in England during May - should the tour be cancelled as Mike Atherton and others have suggestged? Should David Cameron step in and stop the Sri Lankans from arriving? Time will tell as ever....
Nobody on the Dutch side could put their finger in the dyke to stem the loss of wickets ....
I'll get my cricket box ....
Having once been top scorer with 4 (an edge) in a total of 22, I feel their pain We were chasing 312 (declared with ten overs remaining and rain threatening) League was restructured the next season and Pakistani under 18 test leg spinners no longer allowed to upset Dyedwoolie
Horrible for England - Lanka NRR will be off the chart.
A more pertinent question is whether Sri Lanka should be playing international cricket at all - after all they have been labelled as the Mahinda Rajapakse XI.
It should be noted that the Sri Lankan team will arrive in England during May - should the tour be cancelled as Mike Atherton and others have suggestged? Should David Cameron step in and stop the Sri Lankans from arriving? Time will tell as ever....
I'm sure the ICC will make a fair and equitable ruling with no consideration to finance shortly before awarding the next T20/20 World Cup to Qatar.
In 2009, 2011 and 2013 I made double-digit profits, in 2010 a double digit loss and in 2012 a triple digit profit (2012 was just delightful).
The eagle-eyed will notice this does not correspond to the recorded results. The reason for this is that I don't count title bets in such results and I sometimes make bets I don't tip (due to lack of liquidity, lack of certainty or buyer's remorse). Usually these untipped bets end up red, but last year they were green (hence me finishing ahead despite a lacklustre set of tips).
I alter my stakes for each season (or half-season) according to how well or badly I'm doing. Unfortunately last season almost all my Ladbrokes bets came off and almost all my Betfair ones didn't, so one account is hefty (for me), whereas the latter is a bit anorexic.
The stakes for my recent title bets have all been under £10. Alas, I just can't spare more (my betting accounts have been morally ring-fenced, to stop myself putting money I can't afford into them in case things start going wrong).
Incidentally, if you'd put a tenner on every tip I've offered you'd be up over £1,000 now. That's enough to buy each of my books (to date) more than 200 times, and still be green.
“Also, promise to make all the nice things cheaper. Dead millionaires and cheap nice things. That’s how you win elections.”
Somehow, I doubt Labour's 2015 Manifesto will scale such intellectual heights....
You don't need to speculate, the massive fire-power of Labour-supporting think tanks has come up with these policy suggestions (as far as I can tell, this is for real, not satire):
- Prevention of the causes of our social, environmental, physical and mental health problems, which requires a holistic and long-term approach to governance. - Co-production of public services by workers, users and citizens, to make them more responsive and efficient. - Empowerment of everybody, so they are equipped with the resources (time, money, support) to enable them to play a full role as active citizens.
Incidentally, if you'd put a tenner on every tip I've offered you'd be up over £1,000 now. That's enough to buy each of my books (to date) more than 200 times, and still be green.
It'd be very handy if I got a few early wins this season, otherwise my Betfair account will force me to reduce the stakes to miniscule proportions. Anyway, I hope you follow the enormo-haddock blog. Whilst my first race tip was wrong the driver title tips have all been hedgeable (and the Rosberg one, falling from 24 to 3.65 or so on Betfair, has been rather splendid).
Comments
Surely in 7 hrs you could smash the door in ??
Devon Loch was retired and lived on in retirement for seven years until 1964.
There absolutely definitely wasn't a Labour lead of +5% on Friday, and we haven't seen +1% Labour leads before ever ever ever because the trend is clearly Labour going down and other 1% leads jumping back up would disprove it therefore didn't happen. After all there's only one poll that counts so its perfectly logical to accept the few polls we like as Proof and ignore the multitude of polls we don't like as Wrong.
Does that just about sum up the level of pants-creaming from some?
Why do you think it is? Not good for an opposition to have such a small lead a year before an election is it? If all recent history of polls 14 months out are to be believed it is terrible for Labour
And before you start throwing around PB this PB that, I have only ever voted Labour, never Conservative, and don't really care who out of the two wins next year
The report of the FL450 altitude was based on primary radar detection of MH370's flight path by the Malaysian military immediately after the last known position was recorded by commercial air traffic control.
If the plane did reach that altitude, and if the cabin was decompressed and if it remained there for more than two minutes then all the passengers and cabin crew would likely have been knocked out by hypoxia. Apparently the drop down oxygen masks only provide around 12 minutes of oxygen supply to passengers and would not have worked effectively at FL450.
A pressure sealed mask with a different oxygen/air mix would have been needed to survive longer than 2 minutes or so. Such masks would have been available to the pilots but even they would have been time-limited in supply, around 60 minutes was the median estimate from the PPRuNe pilots.
Perhaps the explanation for the strange actions is someone trying to learn how to fly a commercial plane from scratch (I haven't followed the story closely enough to know if this makes any sense).
Sri Lanka anthem a jolly tune. SL won the toss and opted to bowl.
That's laughable. The Labour government oversaw the conglomeration of energy companies into the big six. They created the problem.
Anyone who thinks that Miliband knows anything about energy just needs to look at his time in charge of DECC, and his willingness to bend over backwards to get the approval of Z-list celebrities.
Two things matter:
1) Energy security.
2) Energy pricing.
In other words, to ensure that we have the capability for getting the raw materials, and converting it (refining/generating) to meet our needs at as cheap as price as possible.
Miliband seriously damaged both of these whilst at DECC. He's got no idea.
I would urge caution - the PB Tories' (and boy there are a lot of them on this site) shrieks of joy may be shortlived...
The likelihood that the pilots survived the full 60 minutes though is low as the rulebook response to a decompressed cabin would have been to bring the flight altitude down to 10,000 feet where an oxygen supply would not have been needed. This apparently did not happen although the plane was reported to have descended to around 23,500 foot.
Complaints from silverstone about possible Welsh circuit.
The latest scheme to breathe some life into the valleys (i.e. find something to replace the mines) was a big racing circuit that was going to provide thousands of jobs, lots of inflowing cash etc (colour me a little skeptical on some of the claims made), built partly with government funding.
The representatives of other racing tracks in the UK say building it will damage motor sport in the UK, and government funding would be unfair and illegal.
The immediate short term post budget and year long trend is for Labour to be edging south. If this trend is not arrested then this Labour opposition will go the way of the others in the past 30 years and lose the coming general election handily.
Perhaps it only seems full of Tories since tim got booted. Without all his noise, one can discern more of the signal.
ISTR that this is slightly dependent on climatic conditions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffin_corner_(aviation)
Floodlights now on the blink !!
Labour MPs set to rebel against party over welfare cap
Diane Abbott and other backbenchers refuse to join leadership in backing Osborne's measure.
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/03/labour-mps-set-rebel-against-party-over-welfare-cap
LOL - did she seriously leave because she thought this site for too left-wing? Anyway, the site is a LOT better without her - she was the nastiest Tory toll out there (e.g. agreeing with the Tory tw*t Aidan Burley on the opening ceremony of the London Olympics).
It was widely reported that the pilot's son was being given a flying lesson when the plane crashed. The daughter was up first and the pilot made her movements on the control column appear as if they were controlling the flight by instructing the flight management system to bank the plane.
When his son took over his movement of the control column was so extreme that it overrode the autopilot placing the plane into manual control. After a series of warnings, the plane went into a diving spin. The official pilots did manage to take over and gain some control, but it was too late to avoid a crash.
All 75 people on board were killed, one of them a business contact, a young Ad agency account manager who was travelling to Hong Kong for its Rugby sevens tournament.
Hmm. There's vague musing on the Sky F1 site that Hamilton may get a penalty following his mechanical woe in Australia. I think that'd be ridiculous as the problem has cost him probably 25 and at least 18 points already.
On the other hand, I've backed Rosberg for the title and a small penalty of, say, 27 places and a drive-through would help that position.
Press conference at 14.00
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-26711298
As I've said passim, in the absence of other information, expect the blame to head towards the pilots. This shifting of blame has cost lives in the past when the real problem turned out to be mechanical ...
That's it, I think!
Not quite so overconfident now eh Compouter...... All this nonsense about PB Hodges and the like and Nick Palmer stating37% solid Labour, . If ICM came out now with those Populus figures I reckon the Tories might have a slight lead.
More intelligent lefties would still be beneficial. And yes, I know that's an ambiguous statement.
2/5 Liberal Democrats
3 Labour
6 SNP
Accordingly he is free to return at will.
"Who would you most trust to make the right decisions about improving the state of the economy?"
Coalition = 35%
Labour = 22%
Neither = 31%
Don't know = 13%
"Who do you think would make the best Chancellor of the Exchequer?"
Osborne = 29%
Balls = 14%
Cable = 13%
Don't know = 44%
At the end of March 2010 the figures were as follows..
"Which of these would make the best Chancellor of the Exchequer?"
Darling = 20%
Osborne = 14%
Cable = 24%
Don't know = 43%
"Which party do you think is more likely to run Britain's economy well - the Conservatives or the Labour Party?"
Conservatives = 34%
Labour = 30%
Neither = 27%
Don't know = 10%
The electorate seem to have a better judgement of Osborne now then they had on Darling. Cable's star has waned - perhaps Mr Smithson is right to argue he should not be the designated Lib Dem CoE in waiting. While the Coalition complicates comparisons with 2010, the electorate has notably less confidence in Labour now then they had in 2010.
Thus the polling appears to be roughly in line with MarqueeMark's argument. In 2015 we may be left concluding that Brown's leadership was not Labour's nadir after all.
I am not suggesting at all that the causes of the Aeroflot flight crash are in any way similar to the unknown causes of MH370's crash. I was just responding to BJB's speculation with a "well, it has happened" example.
On 45,000 foot altitude being outside the B777-200's service limit, this was endlessly discussed on PPRuNe with the general consensus being the plane could do it in extremis without too much risk of damage to the hull. The main debate was on whether the primary radar reports of the FL450 altitude were reliable.
Will be interesting to see what the AAIB analysis is - in this at least we still have world class capability.....its probably really only us, the NTSB and French BEA.......
George Osborne's figures are, notably, almost identical to the responses to "Do you think the coalition government is managing the economy well or badly?" (42% well, 47% badly).
Tilting at windmills now ....
So the only opportunity the passengers might have had to use their cell phones was when the plane overflew the Malaysian peninsular after whatever event it was that caused the change in flightpath happened.
Even if passengers had attempted to use their phones it would not have been easy for them to establish any reliable connection in the circumstances although there may have been records of attempted connection attempts at the cell provider's ground stations.
More likely, the fact that we haven't heard of any attempt to connect indicates gives added support to the theory that hypoxia had got the passengers before the plane crossed Malaysia.
The Malaysians have been handling this very badly so far. The BBC just claimed that MI5 or 6 got involved, passing Inmarsat's information to the Americans, because the usual channels to the investigating authorities were not working.
Much kudos to Inmarsat who appear to have done some very ingenious data trawling, the AAIB for helping them, and especially the Australians for pulling out all the stops in the naval search.
Something in the Standard I read recently jumped out at me, namely economists expect wage settlements to start to outstrip inflation by autumn 2014.
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/labour-manifesto-should-include-thing-about-killing-all-the-rich-people-2014032485000
In other words, a hardening of the levels Lab and Con settle to and a further retraction of Lib Dem and Kipper intent.
Or, it might not. Last orders at 11.30, see you tonight.
"“Also, promise to make all the nice things cheaper. Dead millionaires and cheap nice things. That’s how you win elections.”"
Somehow, I doubt Labour's 2015 Manifesto will scale such intellectual heights....
'Wait, there's more...'
Lowest score ever in world 20/20
Nobody on the Dutch side could put their finger in the dyke to stem the loss of wickets ....
I'll get my cricket box ....
We were chasing 312 (declared with ten overs remaining and rain threatening)
League was restructured the next season and Pakistani under 18 test leg spinners no longer allowed to upset Dyedwoolie
It should be noted that the Sri Lankan team will arrive in England during May - should the tour be cancelled as Mike Atherton and others have suggestged? Should David Cameron step in and stop the Sri Lankans from arriving? Time will tell as ever....
"Kill a fop. Inherit his Lamborghini"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/26465202
I reckon it's nonsense, personally. Still, it stop people rightly saying it's daft that women get equal prize money for shorter matches...
Shame about the dutch..wasn;t it their cricketing prowess that inspired songs like 'two slips from Amsterdam'
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/3d1696e6-b283-11e3-b891-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2wtO9gqjm
In 2009, 2011 and 2013 I made double-digit profits, in 2010 a double digit loss and in 2012 a triple digit profit (2012 was just delightful).
The eagle-eyed will notice this does not correspond to the recorded results. The reason for this is that I don't count title bets in such results and I sometimes make bets I don't tip (due to lack of liquidity, lack of certainty or buyer's remorse). Usually these untipped bets end up red, but last year they were green (hence me finishing ahead despite a lacklustre set of tips).
I alter my stakes for each season (or half-season) according to how well or badly I'm doing. Unfortunately last season almost all my Ladbrokes bets came off and almost all my Betfair ones didn't, so one account is hefty (for me), whereas the latter is a bit anorexic.
The stakes for my recent title bets have all been under £10. Alas, I just can't spare more (my betting accounts have been morally ring-fenced, to stop myself putting money I can't afford into them in case things start going wrong).
Incidentally, if you'd put a tenner on every tip I've offered you'd be up over £1,000 now. That's enough to buy each of my books (to date) more than 200 times, and still be green.
- Prevention of the causes of our social, environmental, physical and mental health problems, which requires a holistic and long-term approach to governance.
- Co-production of public services by workers, users and citizens, to make them more responsive and efficient.
- Empowerment of everybody, so they are equipped with the resources (time, money, support) to enable them to play a full role as active citizens.
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/mar/23/labour-must-adopt-new-principles
https://audioboo.fm/boos/2014129-the-english-view-on-the-scottish-independence-debate
Sadiq Khan accused of pandering to unions as he backs 'direct action'
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/sadiq-khan-accused-of-pandering-to-unions-as-he-backs-direct-action-9212171.html
It'd be very handy if I got a few early wins this season, otherwise my Betfair account will force me to reduce the stakes to miniscule proportions. Anyway, I hope you follow the enormo-haddock blog. Whilst my first race tip was wrong the driver title tips have all been hedgeable (and the Rosberg one, falling from 24 to 3.65 or so on Betfair, has been rather splendid).
Another influential green backs Better Together http://tinyurl.com/nl54j3h #indyref #biggerthanbowie
Richard Laird @Richard_Laird 6 mins
Kermit the Frog backs a No vote? What a muppet....