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Two points - first, we are already seeing an increase in attempted crossings of the Channel by migrants and no doubt that will continue post 31/10. Second, the aspect of the proposed immigration policy about which I'm unclear is the status of dependants.HYUFD said:
2. The UK is ending free movement and replacing it with a points system and Salvini is set to win a landslide in the autumn in the Italian general election to send migrant boats back to Africa.
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It's all very wll saying we need more scientists and that's fine but does the system mean the scientist can bring over 25 of his or her immediate family and allow them to settle here as well?
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'Yes' seems to cover it. Particularly as no other party could have formed a government and she certainly wouldn't have wanted a further election.justin124 said:If the rumours re-Philip Lee are true, the Tories will be down to 311 seats (including Elphicke) by mid- September. Had that been the outcome at the June 2017 election, I wonder whether Theresa May would have responded differently. Would she even have bothered to arrive at an arrangement with the DUP?
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I apologise if I've misrepresented you. I'm not a death cult Leaver though - you can apologise for that implication.AlastairMeeks said:Omnium said:
Well you're just plain wrong here. Remainers caused it to fail. The people, like you, and like Soubry, that just deny the vote ever happened. Worse by far are Labour. What a surprise - the poison in British veins continues.AlastairMeeks said:
The deal on the table would have sailed through if it had not been trashed by Leavers. Remainers had no motivation to invest political capital in it when all that would happen is that they would be setting up the next target of claims of betrayal from the headbangers. The headbangers’ support was needed to ensure it commanded Leaver legitimacy.Omnium said:
Last night, Alastair, you said something along the lines of the deal on the table was derailed by leavers. The deal on the table was mostly derailed by Labour, and they've now come out as remainers.AlastairMeeks said:Note that this poll, in common with many others, needed to be reweighted because Survation did not find enough Leavers. This may mean that some Leavers are hard to find, it may mean that some Leavers have forgotten or are lying about how they voted or it may mean that some Leavers are now shy.
There is a distinct possibility that Remainers’ views are being discounted too much in such polls.
'May's deal' has to be a lesson is how not to negotiate. I'm not quite sure that I've managed to digest that lesson yet.
With regards to your post. Hesitant Remainers are probably under-represented. If so then that would explain stronger LD performance.
Conservative Remainers backed it in the main. Labour Remainers were not going to break ranks when the deal was obviously not going to pass. Why take unnecessary grief?
PS I’m getting a bit fed up at the way that death cult Leavers keep claiming I was opposed to the deal. I repeatedly said I would vote for it.
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Nice to have a real marginal fight! She had a big personal vote, but has lost a lot of credibility outside the town with her crazy Brexit swings. There are also a lot of activists pissed that she lied to them in 2017.Benpointer said:
She'd have a very good chance of retaining the seat imo. The LDs ran a close 2nd to Con in the four elections before 2015.ydoethur said:
Prepare for all hell to break loose in Totnes in 3...2...1Gallowgate said:So hot right now.
https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1161717274421710848?s=210 -
You're a brexiter right? So that's no to the EU and to the US. Tonga awaits.Luckyguy1983 said:
Personally, I hope they do, I don't want a trade deal with the US (not a slight on the people who are delightful). I object to her making public pronouncements on a British policy matter.Gallowgate said:
Surely they are free to put whatever conditions they want in the way of a free trade agreement?Luckyguy1983 said:
None of your fucking business.williamglenn said:0 -
I thought most Leavers wanted a trade deal with the EU? It's the political side they don't want.TOPPING said:
You're a brexiter right? So that's no to the EU and to the US. Tonga awaits.Luckyguy1983 said:
Personally, I hope they do, I don't want a trade deal with the US (not a slight on the people who are delightful). I object to her making public pronouncements on a British policy matter.Gallowgate said:
Surely they are free to put whatever conditions they want in the way of a free trade agreement?Luckyguy1983 said:
None of your fucking business.williamglenn said:0 -
I'm quite certain the local party and the national LD party will have had conversations about this and the implications. There will be some discontent locally but, with due respect to Julian Brazil, the best placed candidate to stop the Conservatives holding Totnes is probably Sarah Wollaston and if she wants to fight under LD colours I'm comfortable with that.ydoethur said:
And I'm sure the former candidate and entire local party will be utterly delighted about this.
How could I ever doubt it?
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You haven't been paying attention. The merest mention of any accommodation with the EU is a sign of collaboration.RobD said:
I thought most Leavers wanted a trade deal with the EU? It's the political side they don't want.TOPPING said:
You're a brexiter right? So that's no to the EU and to the US. Tonga awaits.Luckyguy1983 said:
Personally, I hope they do, I don't want a trade deal with the US (not a slight on the people who are delightful). I object to her making public pronouncements on a British policy matter.Gallowgate said:
Surely they are free to put whatever conditions they want in the way of a free trade agreement?Luckyguy1983 said:
None of your fucking business.williamglenn said:0 -
No, evidently you don't even understand that.HYUFD said:
No I understand you are a diehard Remainer and I understand you want to stop Brexit, if you don't like a contrary view toughChris said:
You just don't seem to be understanding what other people are posting at all.HYUFD said:
No I am even if you dislike any poll showing support for BrexitChris said:
You're still not understanding the posts you're replying to at all, are you?HYUFD said:
It is 46% for No Deal on a forced choice against Revoke or further extension, more than enough for a Boris majorityChris said:I think the decrease of 6 points in the No Deal figure indicates that the more it's discussed, the less popular it is.
Obviously a danger for Johnson is not just that the figure is so low, but that during an election campaign it would be discussed very intensively indeed, and the figure could drop still further.
https://www.opinium.co.uk/political-polling-8th-august-2019/
I'm not a diehard remainer, I just think it would be suicidal for us to leave without a deal. I think the best outcome would be to leave with a deal.0 -
But such an arrangement would barely yield a majority at all - being just a defection or by election loss away from losing it. She might have been more inclined, when faced with such arithmetic ,to reach out more to the other parties and so avoid being beholden to the DUP. The problems she encountered with the 'Backstop' might not then have dragged her down in quite the same way.ydoethur said:
'Yes' seems to cover it. Particularly as no other party could have formed a government and she certainly wouldn't have wanted a further election.justin124 said:If the rumours re-Philip Lee are true, the Tories will be down to 311 seats (including Elphicke) by mid- September. Had that been the outcome at the June 2017 election, I wonder whether Theresa May would have responded differently. Would she even have bothered to arrive at an arrangement with the DUP?
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Oh. That's a shame. @HYUFD and I are diehard remainers I thought we could welcome you to our ranks.Chris said:
No, evidently you don't even understand that.HYUFD said:
No I understand you are a diehard Remainer and I understand you want to stop Brexit, if you don't like a contrary view toughChris said:
You just don't seem to be understanding what other people are posting at all.HYUFD said:
No I am even if you dislike any poll showing support for BrexitChris said:
You're still not understanding the posts you're replying to at all, are you?HYUFD said:
It is 46% for No Deal on a forced choice against Revoke or further extension, more than enough for a Boris majorityChris said:I think the decrease of 6 points in the No Deal figure indicates that the more it's discussed, the less popular it is.
Obviously a danger for Johnson is not just that the figure is so low, but that during an election campaign it would be discussed very intensively indeed, and the figure could drop still further.
https://www.opinium.co.uk/political-polling-8th-august-2019/
I'm not a diehard remainer, I just think it would be suicidal for us to leave without a deal. I think the best outcome would be to leave with a deal.0 -
Lord Brazil of Totnes incoming?stodge said:
I'm quite certain the local party and the national LD party will have had conversations about this and the implications. There will be some discontent locally but, with due respect to Julian Brazil, the best placed candidate to stop the Conservatives holding Totnes is probably Sarah Wollaston and if she wants to fight under LD colours I'm comfortable with that.ydoethur said:
And I'm sure the former candidate and entire local party will be utterly delighted about this.
How could I ever doubt it?1 -
I hope you're right. I just wonder what the consequences will be if you're wrong.stodge said:
I'm quite certain the local party and the national LD party will have had conversations about this and the implications. There will be some discontent locally but, with due respect to Julian Brazil, the best placed candidate to stop the Conservatives holding Totnes is probably Sarah Wollaston and if she wants to fight under LD colours I'm comfortable with that.ydoethur said:
And I'm sure the former candidate and entire local party will be utterly delighted about this.
How could I ever doubt it?0 -
Your claiming of a mandate for a course of action that was expressly disavowed during the referendum campaign by Leavers and which would be hugely damaging puts you four square in the death cult Leaver camp. Your willingness to invent motives for others with different views is symptomatic of the mania.Omnium said:
I apologise if I've misrepresented you. I'm not a death cult Leaver though - you can apologise for that implication.AlastairMeeks said:Omnium said:
Well you're just plain wrong here. Remainers caused it to fail. The people, like you, and like Soubry, that just deny the vote ever happened. Worse by far are Labour. What a surprise - the poison in British veins continues.AlastairMeeks said:
The deal on the table would have sailed through if it had not been trashed by Leavers. Remainers had no motivation to invest political capital in it when all that would happen is that they would be setting up the next target of claims of betrayal from the headbangers. The headbangers’ support was needed to ensure it commanded Leaver legitimacy.Omnium said:
Last night, Alastair, you said something along the lines of the deal on the table was derailed by leavers. The deal on the table was mostly derailed by Labour, and they've now come out as remainers.AlastairMeeks said:Note that this poll, in common with many others, needed to be reweighted because Survation did not find enough Leavers. This may mean that some Leavers are hard to find, it may mean that some Leavers have forgotten or are lying about how they voted or it may mean that some Leavers are now shy.
There is a distinct possibility that Remainers’ views are being discounted too much in such polls.
'May's deal' has to be a lesson is how not to negotiate. I'm not quite sure that I've managed to digest that lesson yet.
With regards to your post. Hesitant Remainers are probably under-represented. If so then that would explain stronger LD performance.
Conservative Remainers backed it in the main. Labour Remainers were not going to break ranks when the deal was obviously not going to pass. Why take unnecessary grief?
PS I’m getting a bit fed up at the way that death cult Leavers keep claiming I was opposed to the deal. I repeatedly said I would vote for it.0 -
Put it this way, if Brexit was a roaring success, Leavers wouldn't be queuing up to congratulate Remainers on a job well done.Omnium said:
Well you're just plain wrong here. Remainers caused it to fail. The people, like you, and like Soubry, that just deny the vote ever happened. Worse by far are Labour. What a surprise - the poison in British veins continues.
Brexit is an across the board failure. Leavers naturally blame those that thought it was a bad idea all the long and not themselves for making the wrong decision.
It's human nature to blame others for your own mistakes.0 -
What other parties? The only other parties who would have made a significant difference to the arithmetic were Labour and the SNP, both of whom have consistently rebuffed any attempt to reach out from the Tories. At the same time no other coalition which didn't involve at least one of the Tories and DUP could command a majority.justin124 said:
But such an arrangement would barely yield a majority at all - being just a defection or by election loss away from losing it. She might have been more inclined, when faced with such arithmetic ,to reach out more to the other parties and so avoid being beholden to the DUP. The problems she encountered with the 'Backstop' might not then have dragged her down in quite the same way.ydoethur said:
'Yes' seems to cover it. Particularly as no other party could have formed a government and she certainly wouldn't have wanted a further election.justin124 said:If the rumours re-Philip Lee are true, the Tories will be down to 311 seats (including Elphicke) by mid- September. Had that been the outcome at the June 2017 election, I wonder whether Theresa May would have responded differently. Would she even have bothered to arrive at an arrangement with the DUP?
So it was this form, or fresh elections, even on your figures. And she would not have wanted a fresh election when Labour were riding high.0 -
I'd describe him as a Track Scratcher or Track Basher.Beibheirli_C said:
What is your official hobby title? Trainspotter? TrainRider?Sunil_Prasannan said:
Don't look at meBeibheirli_C said:
Leave him alone. Some people have the oddest hobbies...Chris said:
You just don't seem to be understanding what other people are posting at all.HYUFD said:
No I am even if you dislike any poll showing support for BrexitChris said:
You're still not understanding the posts you're replying to at all, are you?HYUFD said:
It is 46% for No Deal on a forced choice against Revoke or further extension, more than enough for a Boris majorityChris said:I think the decrease of 6 points in the No Deal figure indicates that the more it's discussed, the less popular it is.
Obviously a danger for Johnson is not just that the figure is so low, but that during an election campaign it would be discussed very intensively indeed, and the figure could drop still further.
https://www.opinium.co.uk/political-polling-8th-august-2019/
Take your pick!0 -
Most Brexiteers still think Britain is entitled to a successful Brexit, therefore even its evident failure cannot convince them that it was a mistake.FF43 said:
Put it this way, if Brexit was a roaring success, Leavers wouldn't be queuing up to congratulate Remainers on a job well done.Omnium said:
Well you're just plain wrong here. Remainers caused it to fail. The people, like you, and like Soubry, that just deny the vote ever happened. Worse by far are Labour. What a surprise - the poison in British veins continues.
Brexit is an across the board failure. Leavers naturally blame those that thought it was a bad idea all the long and not themselves for making the wrong decision.
It's human nature to blame others for your own mistakes.0 -
On HYUFD's point 2 - none of the southern EU states wish for the migrants to be dumped on their doorsteps. The flag of the ships "rescuing" the shipwrecks should really be charting planes to pick the refugees up from the nearest airport.stodge said:
Two points - first, we are already seeing an increase in attempted crossings of the Channel by migrants and no doubt that will continue post 31/10. Second, the aspect of the proposed immigration policy about which I'm unclear is the status of dependants.HYUFD said:
2. The UK is ending free movement and replacing it with a points system and Salvini is set to win a landslide in the autumn in the Italian general election to send migrant boats back to Africa.
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It's all very wll saying we need more scientists and that's fine but does the system mean the scientist can bring over 25 of his or her immediate family and allow them to settle here as well?
Yes I know some parts of Northern Africa aren't safe places to be but most of these "refugees" have safely travelled across the entire unsafe area to pay for a dodgy boat to take them to be "rescued". They really should be being sent directly back where they came.0 -
I'm not sure it will be (in this circumstance).Beibheirli_C said:
Get used to it. This is how the UK will be treated in future.Luckyguy1983 said:
None of your fucking business.williamglenn said:
Re Pelosi, remember that these are American politicians playing to Irish-American voters, and the still-modestly-powerful Irish American lobby (the lobby is obviously not THAT powerful, anymore, or Trump and Bolton would not feel able to make these breezily pro-Brexit remarks).
At the moment, coming out for the GFA and Ireland is an easy vote-winner, and it sounds morally correct. And quite possibly it is morally correct.
But imagine if Britain does a Hard or Hardest Brexit. Some fix will be found for the Border, in time. Is America, in that light. really going to antagonise one of its most significant allies, and a serious military player. the UK, in favour of a largely sentimental attachment to Ireland?
Nope. The days of the Kennedys are gone. Realpolitik would prevail. If a UK-US trade deal was in America's interest, it would be dealt.0 -
It just adds insult to injury. It's their project. Own the success, if any, and the failure.williamglenn said:
Most Brexiteers still think Britain is entitled to a successful Brexit.FF43 said:
Put it this way, if Brexit was a roaring success, Leavers wouldn't be queuing up to congratulate Remainers on a job well done.Omnium said:
Well you're just plain wrong here. Remainers caused it to fail. The people, like you, and like Soubry, that just deny the vote ever happened. Worse by far are Labour. What a surprise - the poison in British veins continues.
Brexit is an across the board failure. Leavers naturally blame those that thought it was a bad idea all the long and not themselves for making the wrong decision.
It's human nature to blame others for your own mistakes.0 -
Tories could have signed up to Labour's deal, which respected the result of the referendum. They didn't, and they couldn't maintain party discipline to pass their own deal. That is why we are where we are now.Omnium said:
What was the referendum then?
A thing called by MPs because they couldn't decide, and yet now of no importance?
Labour are now completely denying the relevance of the result of the referendum. The LDs have gone one step further - they're completely denying that it ever took place. The SNP are simply a party of traitors (I'm happy that they should be allowed to be so).
Neither I nor the Labour Party have denied that the referendum took place, although personally I wish it hadn't - look what a hole we are in now.
To be honest, your post has absolutely no logical connection to mine. Are you sure you are responding under the right post?0 -
She’s entitled to make pronouncements on the GFA since the US is one of the guarantors.Luckyguy1983 said:
Personally, I hope they do, I don't want a trade deal with the US (not a slight on the people who are delightful). I object to her making public pronouncements on a British policy matter.Gallowgate said:
Surely they are free to put whatever conditions they want in the way of a free trade agreement?Luckyguy1983 said:
None of your fucking business.williamglenn said:1 -
So first the EU is guilty of bluffing and bluster and now the US is. That's some assumption.Byronic said:
I'm not sure it will be (in this circumstance).Beibheirli_C said:
Get used to it. This is how the UK will be treated in future.Luckyguy1983 said:
None of your fucking business.williamglenn said:
Re Pelosi, remember that these are American politicians playing to Irish-American voters, and the still-modestly-powerful Irish American lobby (the lobby is obviously not THAT powerful, anymore, or Trump and Bolton would not feel able to make these breezily pro-Brexit remarks).
At the moment, coming out for the GFA and Ireland is an easy vote-winner, and it sounds morally correct. And quite possibly it is morally correct.
But imagine if Britain does a Hard or Hardest Brexit. Some fix will be found for the Border, in time. Is America, in that light. really going to antagonise one of its most significant allies, and a serious military player. the UK, in favour of a largely sentimental attachment to Ireland?
Nope. The days of the Kennedys are gone. Realpolitik would prevail. If a UK-US trade deal was in America's interest, it would be dealt.0 -
Route basher more like. I use a blue or black biro to mark my journeys on an SK Baker Atlas, instead of a QUAIL track diagram.SandyRentool said:
I'd describe him as a Track Scratcher or Track Basher.Beibheirli_C said:
What is your official hobby title? Trainspotter? TrainRider?Sunil_Prasannan said:
Don't look at meBeibheirli_C said:
Leave him alone. Some people have the oddest hobbies...Chris said:
You just don't seem to be understanding what other people are posting at all.HYUFD said:
No I am even if you dislike any poll showing support for BrexitChris said:
You're still not understanding the posts you're replying to at all, are you?HYUFD said:
It is 46% for No Deal on a forced choice against Revoke or further extension, more than enough for a Boris majorityChris said:I think the decrease of 6 points in the No Deal figure indicates that the more it's discussed, the less popular it is.
Obviously a danger for Johnson is not just that the figure is so low, but that during an election campaign it would be discussed very intensively indeed, and the figure could drop still further.
https://www.opinium.co.uk/political-polling-8th-august-2019/
Take your pick!0 -
You don't use QUAILs? That seems a bit fishy.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Route basher more like. I use a blue or black biro to mark my journeys on an SK Baker Atlas, instead of a QUAIL track diagram.SandyRentool said:
I'd describe him as a Track Scratcher or Track Basher.Beibheirli_C said:
What is your official hobby title? Trainspotter? TrainRider?Sunil_Prasannan said:
Don't look at meBeibheirli_C said:
Leave him alone. Some people have the oddest hobbies...Chris said:
You just don't seem to be understanding what other people are posting at all.HYUFD said:
No I am even if you dislike any poll showing support for BrexitChris said:
You're still not understanding the posts you're replying to at all, are you?HYUFD said:
It is 46% for No Deal on a forced choice against Revoke or further extension, more than enough for a Boris majorityChris said:I think the decrease of 6 points in the No Deal figure indicates that the more it's discussed, the less popular it is.
Obviously a danger for Johnson is not just that the figure is so low, but that during an election campaign it would be discussed very intensively indeed, and the figure could drop still further.
https://www.opinium.co.uk/political-polling-8th-august-2019/
Take your pick!
I'll get my dressing gown.
Good night,1 -
With @Luckyguy1983 and now @Byronic and no doubt many more we are seeing the brexiter agenda. Plus we begin to understand what a brexiter map would like. The UK huge and at the centre with every other nation tiny and sprinkled around us in awe of our divine power and subservient to us.0
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We all want a trade deal with the US. Just not one that is to our disadvantage.RobD said:
I thought most Leavers wanted a trade deal with the EU? It's the political side they don't want.TOPPING said:
You're a brexiter right? So that's no to the EU and to the US. Tonga awaits.Luckyguy1983 said:
Personally, I hope they do, I don't want a trade deal with the US (not a slight on the people who are delightful). I object to her making public pronouncements on a British policy matter.Gallowgate said:
Surely they are free to put whatever conditions they want in the way of a free trade agreement?Luckyguy1983 said:
None of your fucking business.williamglenn said:0 -
But she might have proceeded simply as a Minority Government on an issue by issue basis. Would the LibDems or Lady Hermon have wanted another election so soon? I am not sure that after their serious reverse in 2017 that the SNP would have been particularly keen either. Admittedly Labour might have put the other parties on the spot by tabling a VNOC!ydoethur said:
What other parties? The only other parties who would have made a significant difference to the arithmetic were Labour and the SNP, both of whom have consistently rebuffed any attempt to reach out from the Tories. At the same time no other coalition which didn't involve at least one of the Tories and DUP could command a majority.justin124 said:
But such an arrangement would barely yield a majority at all - being just a defection or by election loss away from losing it. She might have been more inclined, when faced with such arithmetic ,to reach out more to the other parties and so avoid being beholden to the DUP. The problems she encountered with the 'Backstop' might not then have dragged her down in quite the same way.ydoethur said:
'Yes' seems to cover it. Particularly as no other party could have formed a government and she certainly wouldn't have wanted a further election.justin124 said:If the rumours re-Philip Lee are true, the Tories will be down to 311 seats (including Elphicke) by mid- September. Had that been the outcome at the June 2017 election, I wonder whether Theresa May would have responded differently. Would she even have bothered to arrive at an arrangement with the DUP?
So it was this form, or fresh elections, even on your figures. And she would not have wanted a fresh election when Labour were riding high.0 -
How dare an American politician pronounce on a US-UK trade deal, which is clearly a British matter.TOPPING said:With @Luckyguy1983 and now @Byronic and no doubt many more we are seeing the brexiter agenda. Plus we begin to understand what a brexiter map would like. The UK huge and at the centre with every other nation tiny and sprinkled around us in awe of our divine power and subservient to us.
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More to the point, if a US trade deal isn't the business of the Speaker of the US House of Representatives, whose business is it? Some random dude on the internet?Cyclefree said:
She’s entitled to make pronouncements on the GFA since the US is one of the guarantors.Luckyguy1983 said:
Personally, I hope they do, I don't want a trade deal with the US (not a slight on the people who are delightful). I object to her making public pronouncements on a British policy matter.Gallowgate said:
Surely they are free to put whatever conditions they want in the way of a free trade agreement?Luckyguy1983 said:
None of your fucking business.williamglenn said:0 -
So US frat boys can spend their Spring Break manning the checkpoints alongside the British schoolleavers on their compulsory gap year.Cyclefree said:
She’s entitled to make pronouncements on the GFA since the US is one of the guarantors.Luckyguy1983 said:
Personally, I hope they do, I don't want a trade deal with the US (not a slight on the people who are delightful). I object to her making public pronouncements on a British policy matter.Gallowgate said:
Surely they are free to put whatever conditions they want in the way of a free trade agreement?Luckyguy1983 said:
None of your fucking business.williamglenn said:
At last we have a coherent, workable solution to the border question.0 -
Just to clarify, the reason I think that is because both the other courses - No Deal or Revoke - would be absolutely disastrous politically, because about half the population - or at any rate half the people who care about it - would be outraged in each case.Chris said:
No, evidently you don't even understand that.HYUFD said:
No I understand you are a diehard Remainer and I understand you want to stop Brexit, if you don't like a contrary view toughChris said:
You just don't seem to be understanding what other people are posting at all.HYUFD said:
No I am even if you dislike any poll showing support for BrexitChris said:
You're still not understanding the posts you're replying to at all, are you?HYUFD said:
It is 46% for No Deal on a forced choice against Revoke or further extension, more than enough for a Boris majorityChris said:I think the decrease of 6 points in the No Deal figure indicates that the more it's discussed, the less popular it is.
Obviously a danger for Johnson is not just that the figure is so low, but that during an election campaign it would be discussed very intensively indeed, and the figure could drop still further.
https://www.opinium.co.uk/political-polling-8th-august-2019/
I'm not a diehard remainer, I just think it would be suicidal for us to leave without a deal. I think the best outcome would be to leave with a deal.
I think, setting aside self-seeking politicians, most people would not be too unhappy for us to leave the political structures but to continue to participate in the economic aspects. It's just tragic that politicians of all colours have been too concerned with their own narrow advantage to arrive at a reasonable compromise.2 -
New Adlestrop atlas FTW.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Route basher more like. I use a blue or black biro to mark my journeys on an SK Baker Atlas, instead of a QUAIL track diagram.SandyRentool said:
I'd describe him as a Track Scratcher or Track Basher.Beibheirli_C said:
What is your official hobby title? Trainspotter? TrainRider?Sunil_Prasannan said:
Don't look at meBeibheirli_C said:
Leave him alone. Some people have the oddest hobbies...Chris said:
You just don't seem to be understanding what other people are posting at all.HYUFD said:
No I am even if you dislike any poll showing support for BrexitChris said:
You're still not understanding the posts you're replying to at all, are you?HYUFD said:
It is 46% for No Deal on a forced choice against Revoke or further extension, more than enough for a Boris majorityChris said:I think the decrease of 6 points in the No Deal figure indicates that the more it's discussed, the less popular it is.
Obviously a danger for Johnson is not just that the figure is so low, but that during an election campaign it would be discussed very intensively indeed, and the figure could drop still further.
https://www.opinium.co.uk/political-polling-8th-august-2019/
Take your pick!0 -
You're having an episode. I said no such thing. I said realpolitik will prevail, as it always does:TOPPING said:With @Luckyguy1983 and now @Byronic and no doubt many more we are seeing the brexiter agenda. Plus we begin to understand what a brexiter map would like. The UK huge and at the centre with every other nation tiny and sprinkled around us in awe of our divine power and subservient to us.
Britain is the 6th largest economy, important military ally, owner of crucial American bases, vital intelligence partner, huge economic investor in the US. And, with all due respect to Ireland, Ireland is none of these things.
The Merikans are not going to fight with us over a Border *issue* which will, in all likelihood, be solved anyway, post Brexit. It's not in THEIR interest.
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The very fact you know of the existence of Quail puts you down as a hardcore crank.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Route basher more like. I use a blue or black biro to mark my journeys on an SK Baker Atlas, instead of a QUAIL track diagram.SandyRentool said:
I'd describe him as a Track Scratcher or Track Basher.Beibheirli_C said:
What is your official hobby title? Trainspotter? TrainRider?Sunil_Prasannan said:
Don't look at meBeibheirli_C said:
Leave him alone. Some people have the oddest hobbies...Chris said:
You just don't seem to be understanding what other people are posting at all.HYUFD said:
No I am even if you dislike any poll showing support for BrexitChris said:
You're still not understanding the posts you're replying to at all, are you?HYUFD said:
It is 46% for No Deal on a forced choice against Revoke or further extension, more than enough for a Boris majorityChris said:I think the decrease of 6 points in the No Deal figure indicates that the more it's discussed, the less popular it is.
Obviously a danger for Johnson is not just that the figure is so low, but that during an election campaign it would be discussed very intensively indeed, and the figure could drop still further.
https://www.opinium.co.uk/political-polling-8th-august-2019/
Take your pick!
And you should be using a yellow pen!0 -
There's a lot hinging on your "in time".Byronic said:
But imagine if Britain does a Hard or Hardest Brexit. Some fix will be found for the Border, in time. Is America, in that light. really going to antagonise one of its most significant allies, and a serious military player. the UK, in favour of a largely sentimental attachment to Ireland?
Nope. The days of the Kennedys are gone. Realpolitik would prevail. If a UK-US trade deal was in America's interest, it would be dealt.
Suppose a fix doesn't come, at least not before massive damage to the Irish economy and the border communities. Bearing in mind that the Leavers plan for the border is to invite the EU to abandon their Single Market and Customs Union (ie no plan at all) this seems more likely than your optimistic scenario.
The ill-feeling this will generate should not be underestimated.0 -
Spot on.Charles said:
Probably notStuartDickson said:
Yes, I do see the squirrel.OldKingCole said:
There are all sorts of bizarre arrangements in local councils, to ensure that business gets done. When I was a student in the NE, back in around 1960 there was alleged to be an informal arrangement in one council between the local Ratepayers and the Communists.StuartDickson said:
Liberal Democrats are propping up the Tories in lots of local councils, not least in Jo Swinson’s East Dunbartonshire. Will they be leaving these arrangements to increase pressure on the Tories regarding No Deal?OldKingCole said:
There are all sorts of bizarre arrangements in local councils, to ensure that business gets done. When I was a student in the NE, back in around 1960 there was alleged to be an informal arrangement in one council between the local Ratepayers and the Communists.StuartDickson said:The Liberal Democrats are propping up the Tories in lots of local councils, not least in Jo Swinson’s East Dunbartonshire. Will they be leaving these arrangements to increase pressure on the Tories regarding No Deal?
However, returning to my original query: the Liberal Democrats are propping up the Tories in lots of local councils, not least in Jo Swinson’s East Dunbartonshire. Will they be leaving these arrangements to increase pressure on the Tories regarding No Deal?
The Lib Dems are just as partisan as the Tories.0 -
Brexit is a fucking shit-show because pro-European elites have lied to the British people for forty years, and sunk us SO deep into the integrationist project, it turns out leaving is almost impossible without dismembering ourselves.FF43 said:
Put it this way, if Brexit was a roaring success, Leavers wouldn't be queuing up to congratulate Remainers on a job well done.Omnium said:
Well you're just plain wrong here. Remainers caused it to fail. The people, like you, and like Soubry, that just deny the vote ever happened. Worse by far are Labour. What a surprise - the poison in British veins continues.
Brexit is an across the board failure. Leavers naturally blame those that thought it was a bad idea all the long and not themselves for making the wrong decision.
It's human nature to blame others for your own mistakes.
"There will be no significant transfers of sovereignty". Yeah, right.
Leavers need to own the mess of Brexit. Remainers need to own the decades of putrid lies that went before.0 -
They can make their interest whatever they choose. China is no backwater either and they seem to have no problem fucking with them.Byronic said:
You're having an episode. I said no such thing. I said realpolitik will prevail, as it always does:TOPPING said:With @Luckyguy1983 and now @Byronic and no doubt many more we are seeing the brexiter agenda. Plus we begin to understand what a brexiter map would like. The UK huge and at the centre with every other nation tiny and sprinkled around us in awe of our divine power and subservient to us.
Britain is the 6th largest economy, important military ally, owner of crucial American bases, vital intelligence partner, huge economic investor in the US. And, with all due respect to Ireland, Ireland is none of these things.
The Merikans are not going to fight with us over a Border *issue* which will, in all likelihood, be solved anyway, post Brexit. It's not in THEIR interest.0 -
-
I don't underestimate it. This should all have been avoided. I also believe that, in the end, a solution will be found. Vanishingly few want to return to the Troubles.OblitusSumMe said:
There's a lot hinging on your "in time".Byronic said:
But imagine if Britain does a Hard or Hardest Brexit. Some fix will be found for the Border, in time. Is America, in that light. really going to antagonise one of its most significant allies, and a serious military player. the UK, in favour of a largely sentimental attachment to Ireland?
Nope. The days of the Kennedys are gone. Realpolitik would prevail. If a UK-US trade deal was in America's interest, it would be dealt.
Suppose a fix doesn't come, at least not before massive damage to the Irish economy and the border communities. Bearing in mind that the Leavers plan for the border is to invite the EU to abandon their Single Market and Customs Union (ie no plan at all) this seems more likely than your optimistic scenario.
The ill-feeling this will generate should not be underestimated.
Britain will not erect Border Posts. Ireland won't. The EU might want to, but surely can't. The solution, of necessity, will be a bureaucratic fudge (if Brexit, or No Deal Brexit, happens at all).0 -
"Pro-european elites"Byronic said:
Brexit is a fucking shit-show because pro-European elites have lied to the British people for forty years, and sunk us SO deep into the integrationist project, it turns out leaving is almost impossible without dismembering ourselves.FF43 said:
Put it this way, if Brexit was a roaring success, Leavers wouldn't be queuing up to congratulate Remainers on a job well done.Omnium said:
Well you're just plain wrong here. Remainers caused it to fail. The people, like you, and like Soubry, that just deny the vote ever happened. Worse by far are Labour. What a surprise - the poison in British veins continues.
Brexit is an across the board failure. Leavers naturally blame those that thought it was a bad idea all the long and not themselves for making the wrong decision.
It's human nature to blame others for your own mistakes.
"There will be no significant transfers of sovereignty". Yeah, right.
Leavers need to own the mess of Brexit. Remainers need to own the decades of putrid lies that went before.
Get a grip.0 -
More so in my experienceStuartDickson said:
Spot on.Charles said:
Probably notStuartDickson said:
Yes, I do see the squirrel.OldKingCole said:
There are all sorts of bizarre arrangements in local councils, to ensure that business gets done. When I was a student in the NE, back in around 1960 there was alleged to be an informal arrangement in one council between the local Ratepayers and the Communists.StuartDickson said:
Liberal Democrats are propping up the Tories in lots of local councils, not least in Jo Swinson’s East Dunbartonshire. Will they be leaving these arrangements to increase pressure on the Tories regarding No Deal?OldKingCole said:
There are all sorts of bizarre arrangements in local councils, to ensure that business gets done. When I was a student in the NE, back in around 1960 there was alleged to be an informal arrangement in one council between the local Ratepayers and the Communists.StuartDickson said:The Liberal Democrats are propping up the Tories in lots of local councils, not least in Jo Swinson’s East Dunbartonshire. Will they be leaving these arrangements to increase pressure on the Tories regarding No Deal?
However, returning to my original query: the Liberal Democrats are propping up the Tories in lots of local councils, not least in Jo Swinson’s East Dunbartonshire. Will they be leaving these arrangements to increase pressure on the Tories regarding No Deal?
The Lib Dems are just as partisan as the Tories.0 -
Ah I see. You don't understand how border checks could come about. All is a lot clearer about your posts now.Byronic said:
I don't underestimate it. This should all have been avoided. I also believe that, in the end, a solution will be found. Vanishingly few want to return to the Troubles.OblitusSumMe said:
There's a lot hinging on your "in time".Byronic said:
But imagine if Britain does a Hard or Hardest Brexit. Some fix will be found for the Border, in time. Is America, in that light. really going to antagonise one of its most significant allies, and a serious military player. the UK, in favour of a largely sentimental attachment to Ireland?
Nope. The days of the Kennedys are gone. Realpolitik would prevail. If a UK-US trade deal was in America's interest, it would be dealt.
Suppose a fix doesn't come, at least not before massive damage to the Irish economy and the border communities. Bearing in mind that the Leavers plan for the border is to invite the EU to abandon their Single Market and Customs Union (ie no plan at all) this seems more likely than your optimistic scenario.
The ill-feeling this will generate should not be underestimated.
Britain will not erect Border Posts. Ireland won't. The EU might want to, but surely can't. The solution, of necessity, will be a bureaucratic fudge (if Brexit, or No Deal Brexit, happens at all).0 -
I don't think this is a fair characterisation of the period of our membership.Byronic said:
Brexit is a fucking shit-show because pro-European elites have lied to the British people for forty years, and sunk us SO deep into the integrationist project, it turns out leaving is almost impossible without dismembering ourselves.FF43 said:
Put it this way, if Brexit was a roaring success, Leavers wouldn't be queuing up to congratulate Remainers on a job well done.Omnium said:
Well you're just plain wrong here. Remainers caused it to fail. The people, like you, and like Soubry, that just deny the vote ever happened. Worse by far are Labour. What a surprise - the poison in British veins continues.
Brexit is an across the board failure. Leavers naturally blame those that thought it was a bad idea all the long and not themselves for making the wrong decision.
It's human nature to blame others for your own mistakes.
"There will be no significant transfers of sovereignty". Yeah, right.
Leavers need to own the mess of Brexit. Remainers need to own the decades of putrid lies that went before.
At the time of Maastricht, no-one would have said that we'd been lied into our then level of integration. Where it all went wrong was that staying out of the Euro gave many people the illusion that we weren't really in anything much at all, and that separating would merely be a case of saying to the rest, "You carry on and we'll get out of your way."0 -
You seem to be forgetting the real issues with executing Brexit are the adverse impacts on trade and the economy. It turns out that the single market and customs union offer significant advantages that the the EU are not prepared to offer unless we agree to abide by the rules. Fancy that.Byronic said:
Brexit is a fucking shit-show because pro-European elites have lied to the British people for forty years, and sunk us SO deep into the integrationist project, it turns out leaving is almost impossible without dismembering ourselves.FF43 said:
Put it this way, if Brexit was a roaring success, Leavers wouldn't be queuing up to congratulate Remainers on a job well done.Omnium said:
Well you're just plain wrong here. Remainers caused it to fail. The people, like you, and like Soubry, that just deny the vote ever happened. Worse by far are Labour. What a surprise - the poison in British veins continues.
Brexit is an across the board failure. Leavers naturally blame those that thought it was a bad idea all the long and not themselves for making the wrong decision.
It's human nature to blame others for your own mistakes.
"There will be no significant transfers of sovereignty". Yeah, right.
Leavers need to own the mess of Brexit. Remainers need to own the decades of putrid lies that went before.0 -
Border checks will be done Away From The Border, nitwit. The EU already has a plan. Here, I'll save your sad, rheumy eyes from Googling:TOPPING said:
Ah I see. You don't understand how border checks could come about. All is a lot clearer about your posts now.Byronic said:
I don't underestimate it. This should all have been avoided. I also believe that, in the end, a solution will be found. Vanishingly few want to return to the Troubles.OblitusSumMe said:
There's a lot hinging on your "in time".Byronic said:
But imagine if Britain does a Hard or Hardest Brexit. Some fix will be found for the Border, in time. Is America, in that light. really going to antagonise one of its most significant allies, and a serious military player. the UK, in favour of a largely sentimental attachment to Ireland?
Nope. The days of the Kennedys are gone. Realpolitik would prevail. If a UK-US trade deal was in America's interest, it would be dealt.
Suppose a fix doesn't come, at least not before massive damage to the Irish economy and the border communities. Bearing in mind that the Leavers plan for the border is to invite the EU to abandon their Single Market and Customs Union (ie no plan at all) this seems more likely than your optimistic scenario.
The ill-feeling this will generate should not be underestimated.
Britain will not erect Border Posts. Ireland won't. The EU might want to, but surely can't. The solution, of necessity, will be a bureaucratic fudge (if Brexit, or No Deal Brexit, happens at all).
'"Where will the controls be?" said a senior EU official in response to questions at a briefing on Monday. "The controls will have to be done where they belong. But that does not mean that we would want to see physical infrastructure at the border. We are working very closely with the Irish authorities to try and perform controls away from the border, if at all possible."'
https://www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and-comment/2019/0330/1039471-brexit-no-deal-tony-connelly/
0 -
-
Moron. If you are unaware I can't be bothered to educate you.Byronic said:
Border checks will be done Away From The Border, nitwit. The EU already has a plan. Here, I'll save your sad, rheumy eyes from Googling:TOPPING said:
Ah I see. You don't understand how border checks could come about. All is a lot clearer about your posts now.Byronic said:
I don't underestimate it. This should all have been avoided. I also believe that, in the end, a solution will be found. Vanishingly few want to return to the Troubles.OblitusSumMe said:
There's a lot hinging on your "in time".Byronic said:
But imagine if Britain does a Hard or Hardest Brexit. Some fix will be found for the Border, in time. Is America, in that light. really going to antagonise one of its most significant allies, and a serious military player. the UK, in favour of a largely sentimental attachment to Ireland?
Nope. The days of the Kennedys are gone. Realpolitik would prevail. If a UK-US trade deal was in America's interest, it would be dealt.
Suppose a fix doesn't come, at least not before massive damage to the Irish economy and the border communities. Bearing in mind that the Leavers plan for the border is to invite the EU to abandon their Single Market and Customs Union (ie no plan at all) this seems more likely than your optimistic scenario.
The ill-feeling this will generate should not be underestimated.
Britain will not erect Border Posts. Ireland won't. The EU might want to, but surely can't. The solution, of necessity, will be a bureaucratic fudge (if Brexit, or No Deal Brexit, happens at all).
'"Where will the controls be?" said a senior EU official in response to questions at a briefing on Monday. "The controls will have to be done where they belong. But that does not mean that we would want to see physical infrastructure at the border. We are working very closely with the Irish authorities to try and perform controls away from the border, if at all possible."'
https://www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and-comment/2019/0330/1039471-brexit-no-deal-tony-connelly/0 -
You take it as a given that there are significant advantages. There may be even more significant advanatages of other trading arrangements outside the EU, which you cannot countenance.Benpointer said:
You seem to be forgetting the real issues with executing Brexit are the adverse impacts on trade and the economy. It turns out that the single market and customs union offer significant advantages that the the EU are not prepared to offer unless we agree to abide by the rules. Fancy that.Byronic said:
Brexit is a fucking shit-show because pro-European elites have lied to the British people for forty years, and sunk us SO deep into the integrationist project, it turns out leaving is almost impossible without dismembering ourselves.FF43 said:
Put it this way, if Brexit was a roaring success, Leavers wouldn't be queuing up to congratulate Remainers on a job well done.Omnium said:
Well you're just plain wrong here. Remainers caused it to fail. The people, like you, and like Soubry, that just deny the vote ever happened. Worse by far are Labour. What a surprise - the poison in British veins continues.
Brexit is an across the board failure. Leavers naturally blame those that thought it was a bad idea all the long and not themselves for making the wrong decision.
It's human nature to blame others for your own mistakes.
"There will be no significant transfers of sovereignty". Yeah, right.
Leavers need to own the mess of Brexit. Remainers need to own the decades of putrid lies that went before.0 -
What do you care?Beibheirli_C said:
Get used to it. This is how the UK will be treated in future.Luckyguy1983 said:
None of your fucking business.williamglenn said:
You're fully Oirish, now.0 -
The QUAIL fanatics inhabit the GENSHEET Yahoo groupSandyRentool said:
The very fact you know of the existence of Quail puts you down as a hardcore crank.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Route basher more like. I use a blue or black biro to mark my journeys on an SK Baker Atlas, instead of a QUAIL track diagram.SandyRentool said:
I'd describe him as a Track Scratcher or Track Basher.Beibheirli_C said:
What is your official hobby title? Trainspotter? TrainRider?Sunil_Prasannan said:
Don't look at meBeibheirli_C said:
Leave him alone. Some people have the oddest hobbies...Chris said:
You just don't seem to be understanding what other people are posting at all.HYUFD said:
No I am even if you dislike any poll showing support for BrexitChris said:
You're still not understanding the posts you're replying to at all, are you?HYUFD said:
It is 46% for No Deal on a forced choice against Revoke or further extension, more than enough for a Boris majorityChris said:I think the decrease of 6 points in the No Deal figure indicates that the more it's discussed, the less popular it is.
Obviously a danger for Johnson is not just that the figure is so low, but that during an election campaign it would be discussed very intensively indeed, and the figure could drop still further.
https://www.opinium.co.uk/political-polling-8th-august-2019/
Take your pick!
And you should be using a yellow pen!
And why this predilection with a yellow pen? How can you see yellow properly on a white background?? Blue or black is far more prominent!0 -
Labour's proposals were pitched so that the Conservatives could not sign up to them.OnlyLivingBoy said:
Tories could have signed up to Labour's deal, which respected the result of the referendum. They didn't, and they couldn't maintain party discipline to pass their own deal. That is why we are where we are now.Omnium said:
What was the referendum then?
A thing called by MPs because they couldn't decide, and yet now of no importance?
Labour are now completely denying the relevance of the result of the referendum. The LDs have gone one step further - they're completely denying that it ever took place. The SNP are simply a party of traitors (I'm happy that they should be allowed to be so).
Neither I nor the Labour Party have denied that the referendum took place, although personally I wish it hadn't - look what a hole we are in now.
To be honest, your post has absolutely no logical connection to mine. Are you sure you are responding under the right post?
I accept, that is a legitimate piece of low politics, but let's not pretend that Labour ever intended to strike a bargain with the Conservatives on this.
Labour's problem was that they did not expect so many of their supporters to abandon them, because of Brexit.0 -
The 15th edition of Baker should be out next month - but it's been delayed since last year!El_Capitano said:
New Adlestrop atlas FTW.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Route basher more like. I use a blue or black biro to mark my journeys on an SK Baker Atlas, instead of a QUAIL track diagram.SandyRentool said:
I'd describe him as a Track Scratcher or Track Basher.Beibheirli_C said:
What is your official hobby title? Trainspotter? TrainRider?Sunil_Prasannan said:
Don't look at meBeibheirli_C said:
Leave him alone. Some people have the oddest hobbies...Chris said:
You just don't seem to be understanding what other people are posting at all.HYUFD said:
No I am even if you dislike any poll showing support for BrexitChris said:
You're still not understanding the posts you're replying to at all, are you?HYUFD said:
It is 46% for No Deal on a forced choice against Revoke or further extension, more than enough for a Boris majorityChris said:I think the decrease of 6 points in the No Deal figure indicates that the more it's discussed, the less popular it is.
Obviously a danger for Johnson is not just that the figure is so low, but that during an election campaign it would be discussed very intensively indeed, and the figure could drop still further.
https://www.opinium.co.uk/political-polling-8th-august-2019/
Take your pick!0 -
I've never understood why she was not a Lib Dem in the first place. She would appear to have nothing in common with the Conservatives.stodge said:
I'm quite certain the local party and the national LD party will have had conversations about this and the implications. There will be some discontent locally but, with due respect to Julian Brazil, the best placed candidate to stop the Conservatives holding Totnes is probably Sarah Wollaston and if she wants to fight under LD colours I'm comfortable with that.ydoethur said:
And I'm sure the former candidate and entire local party will be utterly delighted about this.
How could I ever doubt it?0 -
Did you see my post to you earlier Casino. I always seem to post to people just as they leave (or do I drive them away?)Casino_Royale said:
What do you care?Beibheirli_C said:
Get used to it. This is how the UK will be treated in future.Luckyguy1983 said:
None of your fucking business.williamglenn said:
You're fully Oirish, now.0 -
The problem is not "significant transfers of sovereignty", it is trade. We have a sweet arrangement with the EU and its 27 other countries, and through the EU, we have good deals with most other places, all of which we stand to lose. See @Cyclefree's headers passim on tearing up agreements. And to reproduce those deals from outside, we will have to give up (not pool) even more sovereignty because any agreement will specify standards and rigged tribunals to adjudicate them (can't risk open court because they might go the wrong way).Byronic said:
Brexit is a fucking shit-show because pro-European elites have lied to the British people for forty years, and sunk us SO deep into the integrationist project, it turns out leaving is almost impossible without dismembering ourselves.FF43 said:
Put it this way, if Brexit was a roaring success, Leavers wouldn't be queuing up to congratulate Remainers on a job well done.Omnium said:
Well you're just plain wrong here. Remainers caused it to fail. The people, like you, and like Soubry, that just deny the vote ever happened. Worse by far are Labour. What a surprise - the poison in British veins continues.
Brexit is an across the board failure. Leavers naturally blame those that thought it was a bad idea all the long and not themselves for making the wrong decision.
It's human nature to blame others for your own mistakes.
"There will be no significant transfers of sovereignty". Yeah, right.
Leavers need to own the mess of Brexit. Remainers need to own the decades of putrid lies that went before.0 -
Well, plastic Irish.Casino_Royale said:
What do you care?Beibheirli_C said:
Get used to it. This is how the UK will be treated in future.Luckyguy1983 said:
None of your fucking business.williamglenn said:
You're fully Oirish, now.0 -
It's a perfect characterisation. Indeed, it's the only characterisation that precisely explains why we are where we are. No British politician was ever wise and brave enough to tell the British people exactly how deep we were sinking into the quasi-Federalist Project. Because they knew it would be rejected. So we kept sinking. Because it suited THEM.williamglenn said:
I don't think this is a fair characterisation of the period of our membership.Byronic said:
Brexit is a fucking shit-show because pro-European elites have lied to the British people for forty years, and sunk us SO deep into the integrationist project, it turns out leaving is almost impossible without dismembering ourselves.FF43 said:
Put it this way, if Brexit was a roaring success, Leavers wouldn't be queuing up to congratulate Remainers on a job well done.Omnium said:
Well you're just plain wrong here. Remainers caused it to fail. The people, like you, and like Soubry, that just deny the vote ever happened. Worse by far are Labour. What a surprise - the poison in British veins continues.
Brexit is an across the board failure. Leavers naturally blame those that thought it was a bad idea all the long and not themselves for making the wrong decision.
It's human nature to blame others for your own mistakes.
"There will be no significant transfers of sovereignty". Yeah, right.
Leavers need to own the mess of Brexit. Remainers need to own the decades of putrid lies that went before.
At the time of Maastricht, no-one would have said that we'd been lied into our then level of integration. Where it all went wrong was that staying out of the Euro gave many people the illusion that we weren't really in anything much at all, and that separating would merely be a case of saying to the rest, "You carry on and we'll get out of your way."
This was seen most acutely over the promised-then-denied referendums on the EU Constitution/Lisbon, when we signed up to the fateful Article 50.
This epic, geohistorical fuck up is all on the Remainers/Europhiles. There is no getting away from the facts.
But the Leavers must admit their own significant lies and huge inadequacies, as well. Especially in the immediate period before and then after the Referendum. I mean. David Davis, not even understanding how the EU works?! Wanker.
After this is all done - however it is done - Britain will need a Brexit Truth & Reconciliation Commission.
0 -
Scott_P said:
An excellent idea. I'd go for that.0 -
It's a bit more complex than that, I think. Ireland can't afford a hard border. (Northern Ireland can afford it ten times less, but no Brexiteer or government minister cares tuppence about Northern Ireland). So Ireland would, push come to shove, need to partially separate from the EU and the Single Market to maintain that soft borderByronic said:
Border checks will be done Away From The Border, nitwit. The EU already has a plan. Here, I'll save your sad, rheumy eyes from Googling:TOPPING said:
Ah I see. You don't understand how border checks could come about. All is a lot clearer about your posts now.Byronic said:
I don't underestimate it. This should all have been avoided. I also believe that, in the end, a solution will be found. Vanishingly few want to return to the Troubles.OblitusSumMe said:
There's a lot hinging on your "in time".Byronic said:
But imagine if Britain does a Hard or Hardest Brexit. Some fix will be found for the Border, in time. Is America, in that light. really going to antagonise one of its most significant allies, and a serious military player. the UK, in favour of a largely sentimental attachment to Ireland?
Nope. The days of the Kennedys are gone. Realpolitik would prevail. If a UK-US trade deal was in America's interest, it would be dealt.
Suppose a fix doesn't come, at least not before massive damage to the Irish economy and the border communities. Bearing in mind that the Leavers plan for the border is to invite the EU to abandon their Single Market and Customs Union (ie no plan at all) this seems more likely than your optimistic scenario.
The ill-feeling this will generate should not be underestimated.
Britain will not erect Border Posts. Ireland won't. The EU might want to, but surely can't. The solution, of necessity, will be a bureaucratic fudge (if Brexit, or No Deal Brexit, happens at all).
'"Where will the controls be?" said a senior EU official in response to questions at a briefing on Monday. "The controls will have to be done where they belong. But that does not mean that we would want to see physical infrastructure at the border. We are working very closely with the Irish authorities to try and perform controls away from the border, if at all possible."'
https://www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and-comment/2019/0330/1039471-brexit-no-deal-tony-connelly/
Ireland doesn't see why it should concede instead of the UK. It's the UK's Brexit policy that is damaging Ireland. As long as Ireland thinks it has leverage and the backing of the EU, it will push hard for its interest.0 -
Evening everyone.0
-
I can countenance it...MarqueeMark said:
You take it as a given that there are significant advantages. There may be even more significant advanatages of other trading arrangements outside the EU, which you cannot countenance.Benpointer said:
You seem to be forgetting the real issues with executing Brexit are the adverse impacts on trade and the economy. It turns out that the single market and customs union offer significant advantages that the the EU are not prepared to offer unless we agree to abide by the rules. Fancy that.Byronic said:
Brexit is a fucking shit-show because pro-European elites have lied to the British people for forty years, and sunk us SO deep into the integrationist project, it turns out leaving is almost impossible without dismembering ourselves.FF43 said:
Put it this way, if Brexit was a roaring success, Leavers wouldn't be queuing up to congratulate Remainers on a job well done.Omnium said:
Well you're just plain wrong here. Remainers caused it to fail. The people, like you, and like Soubry, that just deny the vote ever happened. Worse by far are Labour. What a surprise - the poison in British veins continues.
Brexit is an across the board failure. Leavers naturally blame those that thought it was a bad idea all the long and not themselves for making the wrong decision.
It's human nature to blame others for your own mistakes.
"There will be no significant transfers of sovereignty". Yeah, right.
Leavers need to own the mess of Brexit. Remainers need to own the decades of putrid lies that went before.
I just don't see the point in throwing away an existing arrangement with our near neighbours (where we are equal participants) together with the global arrangements that trading bloc has, for the uncertain possibility of future arrangements with other trading partners (the larger of which will see us as a small, weak counterparty to be taken advantage of).0 -
To be fair, Stuart Baker has probably had other things on his mind, as the civil servant behind the IET...Sunil_Prasannan said:
The 15th edition of Baker should be out next month - but it's been delayed since last year!El_Capitano said:
New Adlestrop atlas FTW.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Route basher more like. I use a blue or black biro to mark my journeys on an SK Baker Atlas, instead of a QUAIL track diagram.SandyRentool said:
I'd describe him as a Track Scratcher or Track Basher.Beibheirli_C said:
What is your official hobby title? Trainspotter? TrainRider?Sunil_Prasannan said:
Don't look at meBeibheirli_C said:
Leave him alone. Some people have the oddest hobbies...Chris said:
You just don't seem to be understanding what other people are posting at all.HYUFD said:
No I am even if you dislike any poll showing support for BrexitChris said:
You're still not understanding the posts you're replying to at all, are you?HYUFD said:
It is 46% for No Deal on a forced choice against Revoke or further extension, more than enough for a Boris majorityChris said:I think the decrease of 6 points in the No Deal figure indicates that the more it's discussed, the less popular it is.
Obviously a danger for Johnson is not just that the figure is so low, but that during an election campaign it would be discussed very intensively indeed, and the figure could drop still further.
https://www.opinium.co.uk/political-polling-8th-august-2019/
Take your pick!0 -
You have to use a yellow pen, since the act of doing a required route or bit of track is referred to as 'yellow-penning'. Any other colours are plain wrong!Sunil_Prasannan said:
The QUAIL fanatics inhabit the GENSHEET Yahoo groupSandyRentool said:
The very fact you know of the existence of Quail puts you down as a hardcore crank.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Route basher more like. I use a blue or black biro to mark my journeys on an SK Baker Atlas, instead of a QUAIL track diagram.SandyRentool said:
I'd describe him as a Track Scratcher or Track Basher.Beibheirli_C said:
What is your official hobby title? Trainspotter? TrainRider?Sunil_Prasannan said:
Don't look at meBeibheirli_C said:
Leave him alone. Some people have the oddest hobbies...Chris said:
You just don't seem to be understanding what other people are posting at all.HYUFD said:
No I am even if you dislike any poll showing support for BrexitChris said:
You're still not understanding the posts you're replying to at all, are you?HYUFD said:
It is 46% for No Deal on a forced choice against Revoke or further extension, more than enough for a Boris majorityChris said:I think the decrease of 6 points in the No Deal figure indicates that the more it's discussed, the less popular it is.
Obviously a danger for Johnson is not just that the figure is so low, but that during an election campaign it would be discussed very intensively indeed, and the figure could drop still further.
https://www.opinium.co.uk/political-polling-8th-august-2019/
Take your pick!
And you should be using a yellow pen!
And why this predilection with a yellow pen? How can you see yellow properly on a white background?? Blue or black is far more prominent!1 -
The 30 Labour MPs now probably prepared to back the deal (Save Mann, Flint and a couple of others) are almost beyond bloody belief. Theresa May must be laughing hard at them or crying right now !0
-
Lol: State a completely unfounded opinion and then declare: "There is no getting away from the facts."Byronic said:
It's a perfect characterisation. Indeed, it's the only characterisation that precisely explains why we are where we are. No British politician was ever wise and brave enough to tell the British people exactly how deep we were sinking into the quasi-Federalist Project. Because they knew it would be rejected. So we kept sinking. Because it suited THEM.williamglenn said:
I don't think this is a fair characterisation of the period of our membership.Byronic said:
Brexit is a fucking shit-show because pro-European elites have lied to the British people for forty years, and sunk us SO deep into the integrationist project, it turns out leaving is almost impossible without dismembering ourselves.FF43 said:
Put it this way, if Brexit was a roaring success, Leavers wouldn't be queuing up to congratulate Remainers on a job well done.Omnium said:
Well you're just plain wrong here. Remainers caused it to fail. The people, like you, and like Soubry, that just deny the vote ever happened. Worse by far are Labour. What a surprise - the poison in British veins continues.
Brexit is an across the board failure. Leavers naturally blame those that thought it was a bad idea all the long and not themselves for making the wrong decision.
It's human nature to blame others for your own mistakes.
"There will be no significant transfers of sovereignty". Yeah, right.
Leavers need to own the mess of Brexit. Remainers need to own the decades of putrid lies that went before.
At the time of Maastricht, no-one would have said that we'd been lied into our then level of integration. Where it all went wrong was that staying out of the Euro gave many people the illusion that we weren't really in anything much at all, and that separating would merely be a case of saying to the rest, "You carry on and we'll get out of your way."
This was seen most acutely over the promised-then-denied referendums on the EU Constitution/Lisbon, when we signed up to the fateful Article 50.
This epic, geohistorical fuck up is all on the Remainers/Europhiles. There is no getting away from the facts.
But the Leavers must admit their own significant lies and huge inadequacies, as well. Especially in the immediate period before and then after the Referendum. I mean. David Davis, not even understanding how the EU works?! Wanker.
After this is all done - however it is done - Britain will need a Brexit Truth & Reconciliation Commission.
I might as well counter: "I am sure we all agree that Brexit is a monumental clusterfuck from start to finish."0 -
It is a sweet arrangement. I wish we could keep it. BUT, it comes at a very, very hefty price.DecrepitJohnL said:
The problem is not "significant transfers of sovereignty", it is trade. We have a sweet arrangement with the EU and its 27 other countries, and through the EU, we have good deals with most other places, all of which we stand to lose. See @Cyclefree's headers passim on tearing up agreements. And to reproduce those deals from outside, we will have to give up (not pool) even more sovereignty because any agreement will specify standards and rigged tribunals to adjudicate them (can't risk open court because they might go the wrong way).Byronic said:
Brexit is a fucking shit-show because pro-European elites have lied to the British people for forty years, and sunk us SO deep into the integrationist project, it turns out leaving is almost impossible without dismembering ourselves.FF43 said:
Put it this way, if Brexit was a roaring success, Leavers wouldn't be queuing up to congratulate Remainers on a job well done.Omnium said:
Well you're just plain wrong here. Remainers caused it to fail. The people, like you, and like Soubry, that just deny the vote ever happened. Worse by far are Labour. What a surprise - the poison in British veins continues.
Brexit is an across the board failure. Leavers naturally blame those that thought it was a bad idea all the long and not themselves for making the wrong decision.
It's human nature to blame others for your own mistakes.
"There will be no significant transfers of sovereignty". Yeah, right.
Leavers need to own the mess of Brexit. Remainers need to own the decades of putrid lies that went before.
Essentially, we lose control of our borders. Anyone in Europe can come here (and. boy, do they come). And they can come from countries - like Germany - that unilaterally decide to let 1m Syrian enter in one summer. All those Syrians can THEN come to the UK. Like, say, the Somalians in Holland
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jan/28/british-dream-europe-african-citizens
On top of that, you have the intuition that political control of our lives is being slowly and surely taken away from the MPs we know and understand, in Westminster, and given to unelected bureaucrats in Brussels, who may not have even visited Britain, ever.
This intuition is justified, as it is true.
Add those ingredients together and you have the recipe for Brexit. Despite the sweetness of our trade arrangements.
0 -
Corbyn knows full well what he is doing and that, once he has the office for a couple weeks, he won't budge from it. MPs will need to decide if they are willing to legitimize such a person.Scott_P said:0 -
1. When EU point out EU ban on oil to Syria only applies to EU registered vessels. Does Boris actually have a response to that?HYUFD said:
1. The UK is still in the EU so until we Leave wrong if they are in EU waters then EU law applies.Zephyr said:
As well as Brexit, Boris is responsible for many more things now that can drag down his share price.HYUFD said:
1. The EU are about to do the dirty on UK and explain the grounds the Iranians are held in Gibraltar, for breaking EU law about supplying Syria, only applies to EU vessels, therefore UK and Gibraltar are in the illegal position as Iranians claim.
2. The British voters need reassurance the UK and France have a grip on migrants crossing the channel and illegally entering into Britain, and beating the gangs making a killing running that escalating situation. No one believes the official numbers because those are the ones rescued, there’s not enough being done to stop those paddling across undetected.
3. Boris head turned away from Hong Kong as he does nothing.
4. Boris head turned away from the British registered vessel and others held illegally by the Iranians, as he does nothing.
2. The UK is ending free movement and replacing it with a points system and Salvini is set to win a landslide in the autumn in the Italian general election to send migrant boats back to Africa.
3. Raab personally phoned Carrie Lam despite Chinese protestations to complain about treatment of pro democracy pritestors in Hong Kong.
4. It was on May's watch the Iranian vessel was seized not Boris' and the UK is now set to undertake patrols with US ships in the region.
2. I was pointing to the escalating situation in the English Channel, and that the government need to show themselves on the front foot against the evil gangs , thanks for your points but none of them addressed it.
3. To be fair apart from that phone call, what can be done. Politics isn’t fair, it’s Boris who will look weak and whose rating will fall, not a party leader out of power.
4. With reference to 1. happening, that vessel and other captives in Iran will be front and centre of the news and the government reactive, unless they get on the front foot.0 -
We've all lived through this. We know you are talking nonsense.Byronic said:
It's a perfect characterisation. Indeed, it's the only characterisation that precisely explains why we are where we are. No British politician was ever wise and brave enough to tell the British people exactly how deep we were sinking into the quasi-Federalist Project. Because they knew it would be rejected. So we kept sinking. Because it suited THEM.williamglenn said:
I don't think this is a fair characterisation of the period of our membership.Byronic said:
Brexit is a fucking shit-show because pro-European elites have lied to the British people for forty years, and sunk us SO deep into the integrationist project, it turns out leaving is almost impossible without dismembering ourselves.FF43 said:
Put it this way, if Brexit was a roaring success, Leavers wouldn't be queuing up to congratulate Remainers on a job well done.Omnium said:
Well you're just plain wrong here. Remainers caused it to fail. The people, like you, and like Soubry, that just deny the vote ever happened. Worse by far are Labour. What a surprise - the poison in British veins continues.
Brexit is an across the board failure. Leavers naturally blame those that thought it was a bad idea all the long and not themselves for making the wrong decision.
It's human nature to blame others for your own mistakes.
"There will be no significant transfers of sovereignty". Yeah, right.
Leavers need to own the mess of Brexit. Remainers need to own the decades of putrid lies that went before.
At the time of Maastricht, no-one would have said that we'd been lied into our then level of integration. Where it all went wrong was that staying out of the Euro gave many people the illusion that we weren't really in anything much at all, and that separating would merely be a case of saying to the rest, "You carry on and we'll get out of your way."
This was seen most acutely over the promised-then-denied referendums on the EU Constitution/Lisbon, when we signed up to the fateful Article 50.
This epic, geohistorical fuck up is all on the Remainers/Europhiles. There is no getting away from the facts.
But the Leavers must admit their own significant lies and huge inadequacies, as well. Especially in the immediate period before and then after the Referendum. I mean. David Davis, not even understanding how the EU works?! Wanker.
After this is all done - however it is done - Britain will need a Brexit Truth & Reconciliation Commission.0 -
I know everyone here are really big fans of Greta Thunberg
so you can all watch her progress here: https://t.co/6nhsBbn73Q?amp=1 0 -
Don't be silly - they could VoNC Corbyn out very easily once No Deal has been blocked.Gabs2 said:
Corbyn knows full well what he is doing and that, once he has the office for a couple weeks, he won't budge from it. MPs will need to decide if they are willing to legitimize such a person.Scott_P said:0 -
Pointlessly late with PM Bozo.Pulpstar said:The 30 Labour MPs now probably prepared to back the deal (Save Mann, Flint and a couple of others) are almost beyond bloody belief. Theresa May must be laughing hard at them or crying right now !
Even if we had some temporary caretaker post-VoNC PM, they'd just go for an extension.
0 -
If they have done nothing else the 3 years of nonsense in Parliament since the referendum have revealed how poorly we are represented by our MPs.Pulpstar said:The 30 Labour MPs now probably prepared to back the deal (Save Mann, Flint and a couple of others) are almost beyond bloody belief. Theresa May must be laughing hard at them or crying right now !
0 -
Your inability to grasp the truth of what I'm saying is an abiding symptom of your affliction. Remainism.Recidivist said:
We've all lived through this. We know you are talking nonsense.Byronic said:
It's a per it is done - Britain will need a Brexit Truth & Reconciliation Commission.williamglenn said:
I don't think this is a fair characterisation of the period of our membership.Byronic said:
before.FF43 said:
Put it thisg the wrong decision.Omnium said:
Well you're just plain wrong here. Remainers caused it to fail. The people, like you, and like Soubry, that just deny the vote ever happened. Worse by far are Labour. What a surprise - the poison in British veins continues.
It's human nature to blame others for your own mistakes.
At the time of Maastricht, no-one would have said that we'd been lied into our then level of integration. Where it all went wrong was that staying out of the Euro gave many people the illusion that we weren't really in anything much at all, and that separating would merely be a case of saying to the rest, "You carry on and we'll get out of your way."
This is apposite reading. Probably the best analysis of the Remainist mindset out there. And in the Guardian no less.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/13/brexit-remain-radicalisation-fbpe-peoples-vote
Crucial paragraphs:
"A woman asked what to do when someone cited sovereignty as a reason for leaving the EU, no matter the economic costs. “I don’t understand it,” she said.
Even here, in a part of the country where remainers are a minority, there was some bafflement about why people might support Brexit"
"That makes Brexit a blip – a glitch in the system, destined to be righted. When I asked remainists if they were worried about what might happen if Brexit were stopped – how leave voters could react to the result of the referendum being rejected – no one seemed too concerned.
"Much as remainists claim to champion complexity, their own optimism is not so different from the kind currently coming out of No 10: it is as if the past three years could be magicked away, Brexit and its supporters bypassed, at little enduring cost."0 -
Betwixt the hardcore remainers, Tory payroll and Corbynite loyalists does Mays deal have a prayer now though ?Sean_F said:
A pleasent choice for Mr GrieveGabs2 said:
Corbyn knows full well what he is doing and that, once he has the office for a couple weeks, he won't budge from it. MPs will need to decide if they are willing to legitimize such a person.Scott_P said:0 -
The irony is they have an inboard engine for emergenciesCatMan said:I know everyone here are really big fans of Greta Thunberg
so you can all watch her progress here: https://t.co/6nhsBbn73Q?amp=10 -
I have a better idea. Accept Stephen Kinnocks offer and get the WDA signedBenpointer said:
Don't be silly - they could VoNC Corbyn out very easily once No Deal has been blocked.Gabs2 said:
Corbyn knows full well what he is doing and that, once he has the office for a couple weeks, he won't budge from it. MPs will need to decide if they are willing to legitimize such a person.Scott_P said:0 -
And, he has only himself to blame for boxing himself into that corner.Pulpstar said:
Betwixt the hardcore remainers, Tory payroll and Corbynite loyalists does Mays deal have a prayer now though ?Sean_F said:
A pleasent choice for Mr GrieveGabs2 said:
Corbyn knows full well what he is doing and that, once he has the office for a couple weeks, he won't budge from it. MPs will need to decide if they are willing to legitimize such a person.Scott_P said:0 -
No way. The only acceptable position is REMAIN. Nothing else will do.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I have a better idea. Accept Stephen Kinnocks offer and get the WDA signedBenpointer said:
Don't be silly - they could VoNC Corbyn out very easily once No Deal has been blocked.Gabs2 said:
Corbyn knows full well what he is doing and that, once he has the office for a couple weeks, he won't budge from it. MPs will need to decide if they are willing to legitimize such a person.Scott_P said:
0 -
That would be the one that Bozo resigned over, then voted in favour of, and now opposes. Or does he still support it?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I have a better idea. Accept Stephen Kinnocks offer and get the WDA signedBenpointer said:
Don't be silly - they could VoNC Corbyn out very easily once No Deal has been blocked.Gabs2 said:
Corbyn knows full well what he is doing and that, once he has the office for a couple weeks, he won't budge from it. MPs will need to decide if they are willing to legitimize such a person.Scott_P said:0 -
-
I have no idea about Boris but it is the correct thing to doSandyRentool said:
That would be the one that Bozo resigned over, then voted in favour of, and now opposes. Or does he still support it?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I have a better idea. Accept Stephen Kinnocks offer and get the WDA signedBenpointer said:
Don't be silly - they could VoNC Corbyn out very easily once No Deal has been blocked.Gabs2 said:
Corbyn knows full well what he is doing and that, once he has the office for a couple weeks, he won't budge from it. MPs will need to decide if they are willing to legitimize such a person.Scott_P said:
It would at a stroke restore relations with the EU and Ireland, stop no deal and no brexit, and hopefully move the agenda0 -
-
You are just as bad as the no dealerssurbiton19 said:
No way. The only acceptable position is REMAIN. Nothing else will do.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I have a better idea. Accept Stephen Kinnocks offer and get the WDA signedBenpointer said:
Don't be silly - they could VoNC Corbyn out very easily once No Deal has been blocked.Gabs2 said:
Corbyn knows full well what he is doing and that, once he has the office for a couple weeks, he won't budge from it. MPs will need to decide if they are willing to legitimize such a person.Scott_P said:0 -
Well yes, I'd support that... but Boris can't can he?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I have a better idea. Accept Stephen Kinnocks offer and get the WDA signedBenpointer said:
Don't be silly - they could VoNC Corbyn out very easily once No Deal has been blocked.Gabs2 said:
Corbyn knows full well what he is doing and that, once he has the office for a couple weeks, he won't budge from it. MPs will need to decide if they are willing to legitimize such a person.Scott_P said:
Even if he did, he would not get the vote through - half his cabinet would resign, the ERG would vote against, along with most of Labour, the SNP and LDs.0 -
Ah, the exciting future of humanity. From being able to be in New York in a little over three hours on the Concorde in '76, to taking sixteen days in 2019. Progress!CatMan said:I know everyone here are really big fans of Greta Thunberg
so you can all watch her progress here: https://t.co/6nhsBbn73Q?amp=10 -
I'm sure she'll be far happier there than she ever was in the Conservative party.Scott_P said:0 -
There is a recession on the way, with its epicentre in the exporting centres of China and Germany.
If the EU nomenklatura want to drive that into a depression to make a point by destroying the EU's largest market then they will have the voters of Europe to answer to.
They may not care. But Europe's elected politicians will...1 -
That's why the Swiss and Norwegian economies are in real troub.. oh wait.surbiton19 said:
No way. The only acceptable position is REMAIN. Nothing else will do.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I have a better idea. Accept Stephen Kinnocks offer and get the WDA signedBenpointer said:
Don't be silly - they could VoNC Corbyn out very easily once No Deal has been blocked.Gabs2 said:
Corbyn knows full well what he is doing and that, once he has the office for a couple weeks, he won't budge from it. MPs will need to decide if they are willing to legitimize such a person.Scott_P said:0 -
The two sides of brexit debate today don’t agree on what sovereignty is, this has been so since before we even joined.Byronic said:
Your inability to grasp the truth of what I'm saying is an abiding symptom of your affliction. Remainism.Recidivist said:
We've all lived through this. We know you are talking nonsense.Byronic said:
It's a per it is done - Britain will need a Brexit Truth & Reconciliation Commission.williamglenn said:
I don't think this is a fair characterisation of the period of our membership.Byronic said:
before.FF43 said:
Put it thisg the wrong decision.Omnium said:
Well you're just plain wrong here. Remainers caused it to fail. The people, like you, and like Soubry, that just deny the vote ever happened. Worse by far are Labour. What a surprise - the poison in British veins continues.
It's human nature to blame others for your own mistakes.
At the time of Maastricht, no-one would have said that we'd been lied into our then level of integration. Where it all went wrong was that staying out of the Euro gave many people the illusion that we weren't really in anything much at all, and that separating would merely be a case of saying to the rest, "You carry on and we'll get out of your way."
"A woman asked what to do when someone cited sovereignty as a reason for leaving the EU, no matter the economic costs. “I don’t understand it,” she said.
The leave mentality is sovereignty something unwisely gave away, and now rightly taking back where it belongs.
The remain mentality Sovereignty operates like a currency, you have 100 quid in the bank, put 20 quid to work to your advantage. Such as membership of the world’s largest trading bloc with over 500 million consumers, representing 23% of global GDP. Removal of trade barriers and greater trade efficiency’s to 44% of all UK exports.
Are you saying remainers comfortable with pooling some sovereignty means they are stupid?0 -
Seems sensible to me.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The irony is they have an inboard engine for emergenciesCatMan said:I know everyone here are really big fans of Greta Thunberg
so you can all watch her progress here: https://t.co/6nhsBbn73Q?amp=10 -
Stephen Kinnock is talking of 50 plus labour mps and so many want this concluded it may just get throughBenpointer said:
Well yes, I'd support that... but Boris can't can he?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I have a better idea. Accept Stephen Kinnocks offer and get the WDA signedBenpointer said:
Don't be silly - they could VoNC Corbyn out very easily once No Deal has been blocked.Gabs2 said:
Corbyn knows full well what he is doing and that, once he has the office for a couple weeks, he won't budge from it. MPs will need to decide if they are willing to legitimize such a person.Scott_P said:
Even if he did, he would not get the vote through - half his cabinet would resign, the ERG would vote against, along with most of Labour, the SNP and LDs.0 -
Would have to be the end of Boris surely?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Stephen Kinnock is talking of 50 plus labour mps and so many want this concluded it may just get throughBenpointer said:
Well yes, I'd support that... but Boris can't can he?Big_G_NorthWales said:
I have a better idea. Accept Stephen Kinnocks offer and get the WDA signedBenpointer said:
Don't be silly - they could VoNC Corbyn out very easily once No Deal has been blocked.Gabs2 said:
Corbyn knows full well what he is doing and that, once he has the office for a couple weeks, he won't budge from it. MPs will need to decide if they are willing to legitimize such a person.Scott_P said:
Even if he did, he would not get the vote through - half his cabinet would resign, the ERG would vote against, along with most of Labour, the SNP and LDs.0 -
Yes but hardly fits the narrativeBenpointer said:
Seems sensible to me.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The irony is they have an inboard engine for emergenciesCatMan said:I know everyone here are really big fans of Greta Thunberg
so you can all watch her progress here: https://t.co/6nhsBbn73Q?amp=10 -
Smithson is now a biased and unreliable witness in the battle of the polls.0
This discussion has been closed.