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I'm not an English professor. I would think it obvious to anyone reading my sentence that the "them" referred to continents in general. Do you feel better about yourself for this line of inquiry?ydoethur said:
Absolutely! But what you actually said was that you had visited practically all of the continents you had lived on. I was wondering how you had lived in a place without visiting it.Philip_Thompson said:
Them being continents in general not continents I've lived in specifically. I have visited five continents.ydoethur said:
You have visited almost all the continents you have lived in?Philip_Thompson said:
There is nothing wrong with my geography and as someone who has lived in multiple continents and visited almost all of them, I think some people's obsession with our small continent to be archaic and parochial. There's a big wide world out there and Europe is one small part of it.DougSeal said:I hope your geography teacher didn’t last long in the profession
Your geography teacher's inadequacies pale beside those of your English teahcer!
Though I'm not sure what my "teahcer" has to do with it if you want to be a Grammar Nazi. Isn't it amusing that whenever someone tries to pick up on someone else's grammar online they almost invariably make a mistake themselves.0 -
In other words you accept that currencies might be locked together at rates which are inappropriate for individual countries.williamglenn said:
I would have devalued and renegotiated lower bands.another_richard said:
Out of interest to what level would you have raised interest rates to keep the UK in the ERM ?williamglenn said:
Howe got it absolutely right, and in time it will become received wisdom that staying out of the single currency sent the UK down a political cul-de-sac of self-satisfaction that ended in the humiliation of Brexit.Omnium said:
Just watching the link. (again). It's pretty clear Howe got it wrong.Philip_Thompson said:
Rather depressing and retrograde outlook viewing yourself as merely 'living within Europe'.williamglenn said:
It was the late Lord Stockton, formerly Harold Macmillan, who first put the central point clearly. As long ago as 1962, he argued that we had to place and keep ourselves within the EC. He saw it as essential then, as it is today, not to cut ourselves off from the realities of power; not to retreat into a ghetto of sentimentality about our past and so diminish our own control over our own destiny in the future.Philip_Thompson said:
I don't view controlling our own destiny to be shooting ourselves in the foot. More like releasing the binds from our feet that prevent us from being agile.
The pity is that the Macmillan view had not been perceived more clearly a decade before in the 1950s. It would have spared us so many of the struggles of the last 20 years had we been in the Community from the outset; had we been ready, in the much too simple phrase, to "surrender some sovereignty" at a much earlier stage. If we had been in from the start, as almost everybody now acknowledges, we should have had more, not less, influence over the Europe in which we live today. We should never forget the lesson of that isolation, of being on the outside looking in, for the conduct of today's affairs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMRZM9uTd5Q
We are about to enter the 2020s not the 1950s. We live in a globalised world.
We live in the world, not Europe. Europe will be our competitors, which will be good for us, healthy competition is good. But more importantly our competitors are Asia and America. We need to look beyond Europe and not back to it.
At the time I thought he had a decent point.
And how does a country devalue and renegotiate a lower rate once it has joined the single currency ?0 -
Once there is a single currency, there can be no speculative attack in the manner of George Soros so the problem doesn't arise.another_richard said:
In other words you accept that currencies might be locked together at rates which are inappropriate for individual countries.williamglenn said:
I would have devalued and renegotiated lower bands.another_richard said:
Out of interest to what level would you have raised interest rates to keep the UK in the ERM ?williamglenn said:
Howe got it absolutely right, and in time it will become received wisdom that staying out of the single currency sent the UK down a political cul-de-sac of self-satisfaction that ended in the humiliation of Brexit.Omnium said:
Just watching the link. (again). It's pretty clear Howe got it wrong.Philip_Thompson said:
Rather depressing and retrograde outlook viewing yourself as merely 'living within Europe'.williamglenn said:
It was the late Lord Stockton, formerly Harold Macmillan, who first put the central point clearly. As long ago as 1962, he argued that we had to place and keep ourselves within the EC. He saw it as essential then, as it is today, not to cut ourselves off from the realities of power; not to retreat into a ghetto of sentimentality about our past and so diminish our own control over our own destiny in the future.Philip_Thompson said:
I don't view controlling our own destiny to be shooting ourselves in the foot. More like releasing the binds from our feet that prevent us from being agile.
The pity is that the Macmillan view had not been perceived more clearly a decade before in the 1950s. It would have spared us so many of the struggles of the last 20 years had we been in the Community from the outset; had we been ready, in the much too simple phrase, to "surrender some sovereignty" at a much earlier stage. If we had been in from the start, as almost everybody now acknowledges, we should have had more, not less, influence over the Europe in which we live today. We should never forget the lesson of that isolation, of being on the outside looking in, for the conduct of today's affairs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMRZM9uTd5Q
We are about to enter the 2020s not the 1950s. We live in a globalised world.
We live in the world, not Europe. Europe will be our competitors, which will be good for us, healthy competition is good. But more importantly our competitors are Asia and America. We need to look beyond Europe and not back to it.
At the time I thought he had a decent point.
And how does a country devalue and renegotiate a lower rate once it has joined the single currency ?0 -
That the Conservative Party put a candidate forward who failed to get the job done is the fault only of the Conservative Party. Why should it have another chance?Philip_Thompson said:
I think one chance of a leaver seeking to get us to leave would be a good start.DougSeal said:
He has no executive position within the government. He can’t “deliver” any form of policy. That’s the job of the Conservative Government - something it has failed to do. Time for another party to get a chance maybe? The Conservatives gave us May after all. Now they are saying “sorry, made a mistake there, but the next one will be SO much better!” How many chances do you expect?HYUFD said:
Corbyn has refused to vote for the Withdrawal Agreement, has refused to vote for No Deal and thus refused to vote for Brexit and he has refused to commit to EUref2 or revoke either and thus also refused to vote to stop BrexitSandyRentool said:
Of course Corbyn hasn't delivered anything - Labour didn't win the election.HYUFD said:
At the last general election Corbyn promised Leave voters he would deliver Brexit, he has not done that so many will now vote Brexit Party and he suggested to Remain voters he would stop Brexit, he has not done that either so many are now voting LD or Green.NickPalmer said:We have recent experience of how well governing parties do when they're ahead in the polls and try to cash in with a snap election.
Thus a general election in the autumn would be a different prospect to 2017 especially if the Tories minimise their leakage of 2017 Tory voters to the Brexit Party if they are led by a Leaver like Boris promising to deliver Brexit, Deal or No Deal if he gets a mandate and the majority he is currently denied
In contrast, the Conservatives formed a government and have also failed to deliver anything, other than a nebulous promise to achieve 'net zero' by 2050.0 -
Fair enough I do actually view people on how they contribute to their community when they're able. It doesn’t have to be politics, but putting something back from coaching a football team to being a brown owl or local councilor. I might be a bit old fashioned but if people do I can respect their views slightly better.Philip_Thompson said:
Not public office per se, but 17-19 years ago I repeatedly stood for election in Student Union politics (winning 3 elections, losing 2) and took a full part in that for years including going to the NUS Conference. Incidentally as an independent not aligned with any party and simply seeking to serve student interests as I saw them.nichomar said:
Genuine question asi want to understand you better.Philip_Thompson said:
No I would not! I'd agree with them and think they were on the right path.williamglenn said:
If a Yorkshireman told you that Yorkshire needed to become global and the obsession with our small island was 'archaic and parochial', you'd probably think they were mad.Philip_Thompson said:There is nothing wrong with my geography and as someone who has lived in multiple continents and visited almost all of them, I think some people's obsession with our small continent to be archaic and parochial. There's a big wide world out there and Europe is one small part of it.
Businesses in Yorkshire should be facing the world and not just embracing our own island or continent.
Individuals in Yorkshire need to face the reality of living in a globalised world.
Have you ever stood for public office?
Have you served on any non for profit making bodies?
Do you run or help with any of the organizations that your children belong to?
You may think it’s irrelevant but I’d be interested in the answer.
Served how? I have all my life spent a lot of time fundraising for charities close to my heart.
No. My children are 3 and 5. The 3 year old is not involved in any organisations and the 5 year old goes to school, which again I have done fundraising for but I'm not on the PTA.0 -
But you profess to be English? As for what you mean, that is different from what you said.Philip_Thompson said:
I'm not an English professor. I would think it obvious to anyone reading my sentence that the "them" referred to continents in general. Do you feel better about yourself for this line of inquiry?ydoethur said:
Absolutely! But what you actually said was that you had visited practically all of the continents you had lived on. I was wondering how you had lived in a place without visiting it.Philip_Thompson said:
Them being continents in general not continents I've lived in specifically. I have visited five continents.ydoethur said:
You have visited almost all the continents you have lived in?Philip_Thompson said:
There is nothing wrong with my geography and as someone who has lived in multiple continents and visited almost all of them, I think some people's obsession with our small continent to be archaic and parochial. There's a big wide world out there and Europe is one small part of it.DougSeal said:I hope your geography teacher didn’t last long in the profession
Your geography teacher's inadequacies pale beside those of your English teahcer!
Though I'm not sure what my "teahcer" has to do with it if you want to be a Grammar Nazi. Isn't it amusing that whenever someone tries to pick up on someone else's grammar online they almost invariably make a mistake themselves.
I can talk about grammar all day and much of the night. As long as it's not expressed in silly clichés. I will inveigh against people who talk in clichés until the cows come home.0 -
Labour are a complete hypocritical disgrace. Christ.Scott_P said:1 -
Surely it’s up to the businesses of Yorkshire to pick their markets.Philip_Thompson said:
No I would not! I'd agree with them and think they were on the right path.williamglenn said:
If a Yorkshireman told you that Yorkshire needed to become global and the obsession with our small island was 'archaic and parochial', you'd probably think they were mad.Philip_Thompson said:There is nothing wrong with my geography and as someone who has lived in multiple continents and visited almost all of them, I think some people's obsession with our small continent to be archaic and parochial. There's a big wide world out there and Europe is one small part of it.
Businesses in Yorkshire should be facing the world and not just embracing our own island or continent.
Individuals in Yorkshire need to face the reality of living in a globalised world.
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But there wasn't a speculative attack on the sterling value was there, it was simply that the ERM rate was the wrong value for sterling given the state of the UK economy.williamglenn said:
Once there is a single currency, there can be no speculative attack in the manner of George Soros so the problem doesn't arise.another_richard said:
In other words you accept that currencies might be locked together at rates which are inappropriate for individual countries.williamglenn said:
I would have devalued and renegotiated lower bands.another_richard said:
Out of interest to what level would you have raised interest rates to keep the UK in the ERM ?williamglenn said:
Howe got it absolutely right, and in time it will become received wisdom that staying out of the single currency sent the UK down a political cul-de-sac of self-satisfaction that ended in the humiliation of Brexit.Omnium said:
Just watching the link. (again). It's pretty clear Howe got it wrong.Philip_Thompson said:
Rather depressing and retrograde outlook viewing yourself as merely 'living within Europe'.
We are about to enter the 2020s not the 1950s. We live in a globalised world.
We live in the world, not Europe. Europe will be our competitors, which will be good for us, healthy competition is good. But more importantly our competitors are Asia and America. We need to look beyond Europe and not back to it.
At the time I thought he had a decent point.
And how does a country devalue and renegotiate a lower rate once it has joined the single currency ?
You've just said that yourself:
I would have devalued and renegotiated lower bands
And if the rate at which sterling entered the ERM was inappropriate only two years later, even with the 6% variation which was allowed, how soon would the rate at which the UK entered a single currency be wrong ?
And then what would the UK do ?
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I overheard an interesting conversation on a train by two active members of the Labour party today.
Basically, they are disatisfied with Corbyn in a big way. They said he was hopless as leader and they were alarmed by the 17% Labour achieved in a recent poll. It was a really interesting conversation to overhear as they were talking about potential succesors including the shadow foriegn sec. and the shadow Brexit sec. They were rearly unhappy at the direction the party has taken under Corbyn. Interestingly Tom Watson came in for criticism and they said he was a nasty piece of work who would not be a very good replacement of Corbyn.
The two individuals were middle-class Labour party members and they were appalled by the anti-semite problems the party has been afflicted with. They seemed like good people who obviously had a deep social conscience and concern for the disadvantaged both demostically and personally helping those who had come to the UK as a place of refuge.
I thought posters might find the above interesting!0 -
If they put forward Hunt then they don't.DougSeal said:
That the Conservative Party put a candidate forward who failed to get the job done is the fault only of the Conservative Party. Why should it have another chance?Philip_Thompson said:
I think one chance of a leaver seeking to get us to leave would be a good start.DougSeal said:
He has no executive position within the government. He can’t “deliver” any form of policy. That’s the job of the Conservative Government - something it has failed to do. Time for another party to get a chance maybe? The Conservatives gave us May after all. Now they are saying “sorry, made a mistake there, but the next one will be SO much better!” How many chances do you expect?HYUFD said:
Corbyn has refused to vote for the Withdrawal Agreement, has refused to vote for No Deal and thus refused to vote for Brexit and he has refused to commit to EUref2 or revoke either and thus also refused to vote to stop BrexitSandyRentool said:
Of course Corbyn hasn't delivered anything - Labour didn't win the election.HYUFD said:
At the last general election Corbyn promised Leave voters he would deliver Brexit, he has not done that so many will now vote Brexit Party and he suggested to Remain voters he would stop Brexit, he has not done that either so many are now voting LD or Green.NickPalmer said:We have recent experience of how well governing parties do when they're ahead in the polls and try to cash in with a snap election.
Thus a general election in the autumn would be a different prospect to 2017 especially if the Tories minimise their leakage of 2017 Tory voters to the Brexit Party if they are led by a Leaver like Boris promising to deliver Brexit, Deal or No Deal if he gets a mandate and the majority he is currently denied
In contrast, the Conservatives formed a government and have also failed to deliver anything, other than a nebulous promise to achieve 'net zero' by 2050.
If they put forward Boris then they have learnt from their mistake.0 -
Their lawyers were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn’t stop to think if they should.Scott_P said:0 -
Indeed.SouthamObserver said:
Surely it’s up to the businesses of Yorkshire to pick their markets.Philip_Thompson said:
No I would not! I'd agree with them and think they were on the right path.williamglenn said:
If a Yorkshireman told you that Yorkshire needed to become global and the obsession with our small island was 'archaic and parochial', you'd probably think they were mad.Philip_Thompson said:There is nothing wrong with my geography and as someone who has lived in multiple continents and visited almost all of them, I think some people's obsession with our small continent to be archaic and parochial. There's a big wide world out there and Europe is one small part of it.
Businesses in Yorkshire should be facing the world and not just embracing our own island or continent.
Individuals in Yorkshire need to face the reality of living in a globalised world.
And if the people of Yorkshire decide the English/UK/European market isn't working best for them and Yorkshire independence and a Yorkshire trade policy is required then I would not stand in their way.0 -
Indeed yes. It's nice to know it's not only my iPad has serious autocorrect issues.The_Taxman said:I overheard an interesting conversation on a train by two active members of the Labour party today.
Basically, they are disatisfied with Corbyn in a big way. They said he was hopless as leader and they were alarmed by the 17% Labour achieved in a recent poll. It was a really interesting conversation to overhear as they were talking about potential succesors including the shadow foriegn sec. and the shadow Brexit sec. They were rearly unhappy at the direction the party has taken under Corbyn. Interestingly Tom Watson came in for criticism and they said he was a nasty piece of work who would not be a very good replacement of Corbyn.
The two individuals were middle-class Labour party members and they were appalled by the anti-semite problems the party has been afflicted with. They seemed like good people who obviously had a deep social conscience and concern for the disadvantaged both demostically and personally helping those who had come to the UK as a place of refuge.
I thought posters might find the above interesting!
Incidentally that is also my experience of hearing A-level students at my talk. They dislike the Conservatives, but they really loathe and despise Corbyn. They think he is a liar, a racist and a fool. Bear in mind three years ago this was the demographic that practically swooned over him. The antisemitism scandal however has wrecked his image.
And no, I have never told them my personal political opinions.0 -
You have been trying to sell this vision relentlessly for months, but nobody's really buying it. Do you ever ponder why the might be?Philip_Thompson said:
We are part of the world. Europe is merely a small part of it and we are heading into 2020 and beyond not 1950. Geography just doesn't matter that much anymore.williamglenn said:
We are Europe. Trying to look beyond Europe without accepting that we are part of it is self-denial.Philip_Thompson said:
Rather depressing and retrograde outlook viewing yourself as merely 'living within Europe'.williamglenn said:
It was the late Lord Stockton, formerly Harold Macmillan, who first put the central point clearly. As long ago as 1962, he argued that we had to place and keep ourselves within the EC. He saw it as essential then, as it is today, not to cut ourselves off from the realities of power; not to retreat into a ghetto of sentimentality about our past and so diminish our own control over our own destiny in the future.Philip_Thompson said:
I don't view controlling our own destiny to be shooting ourselves in the foot. More like releasing the binds from our feet that prevent us from being agile.williamglenn said:
I struggle to see how seeing the rest of the world as our competitors leads you to think that shooting ourselves in the foot is a good idea.Philip_Thompson said:The world is globalised whether we want it to be or not. Acknowledging that and dropping the European comfort blanket that pretends to keep the barbarians at the gate and allow Europe to isolate itself from the world doesn't work. We need to face the world as it is and view Europe, Asia and America all as our competitors. As that is exactly what they are.
The pity is that the Macmillan view had not been perceived more clearly a decade before in the 1950s. It would have spared us so many of the struggles of the last 20 years had we been in the Community from the outset; had we been ready, in the much too simple phrase, to "surrender some sovereignty" at a much earlier stage. If we had been in from the start, as almost everybody now acknowledges, we should have had more, not less, influence over the Europe in which we live today. We should never forget the lesson of that isolation, of being on the outside looking in, for the conduct of today's affairs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMRZM9uTd5Q
We are about to enter the 2020s not the 1950s. We live in a globalised world.
We live in the world, not Europe. Europe will be our competitors, which will be good for us, healthy competition is good. But more importantly our competitors are Asia and America. We need to look beyond Europe and not back to it.0 -
How can a vote from the Tory party membership be described as a mandate for him to do what he wants when in office as just described on sky news?0
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South Africa win by 10 runs.
England to play the sandboys at Edgbaston.
And the moral of this story is - win the damn toss and bat, Eoin!-1 -
Are you referring to Labour's lawyers or lawyers in general ?AlastairMeeks said:
Their lawyers were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn’t stop to think if they should.Scott_P said:
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Define nobody. 17.4 million people voted to look beyond Europe just 3 years ago.OllyT said:You have been trying to sell this vision relentlessly for months, but nobody's really buying it. Do you ever ponder why the might be?
My opinion is not unique and was most closely resembling that of The Spectator's editorial "Out - and into the world": https://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/out-and-into-the-world-why-the-spectator-is-for-leave/2 -
Did they really, you could have fooled me. Most of the ones I know were banging on about immigrants and "taking back control"Philip_Thompson said:
Define nobody. 17.4 million people voted to look beyond Europe just 3 years ago.OllyT said:You have been trying to sell this vision relentlessly for months, but nobody's really buying it. Do you ever ponder why the might be?
My opinion is not unique and was most closely resembling that of The Spectator's editorial "Out - and into the world": https://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/out-and-into-the-world-why-the-spectator-is-for-leave/0 -
It's rather foolish of them to have effectively admitted that everything he has said is true.another_richard said:
Are you referring to Labour's lawyers or lawyers in general ?AlastairMeeks said:
Their lawyers were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn’t stop to think if they should.Scott_P said:0 -
Further amusing spelling mistake of the night:
https://www.twitter.com/AndrewRendle/status/11476025220786872320 -
Can you explain how my company was able to build the majority of its business outside Europe while the UK was in the EU?Philip_Thompson said:
Define nobody. 17.4 million people voted to look beyond Europe just 3 years ago.OllyT said:You have been trying to sell this vision relentlessly for months, but nobody's really buying it. Do you ever ponder why the might be?
My opinion is not unique and was most closely resembling that of The Spectator's editorial "Out - and into the world": https://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/out-and-into-the-world-why-the-spectator-is-for-leave/
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Doesn’t really matter in the context of the competition, but against that beating Australia at cricket.......ydoethur said:0 -
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Why do they tolerate Corbyn? Why have they tolerated him for 4 years?The_Taxman said:I overheard an interesting conversation on a train by two active members of the Labour party today.
Basically, they are disatisfied with Corbyn in a big way. They said he was hopless as leader and they were alarmed by the 17% Labour achieved in a recent poll. It was a really interesting conversation to overhear as they were talking about potential succesors including the shadow foriegn sec. and the shadow Brexit sec. They were rearly unhappy at the direction the party has taken under Corbyn. Interestingly Tom Watson came in for criticism and they said he was a nasty piece of work who would not be a very good replacement of Corbyn.
The two individuals were middle-class Labour party members and they were appalled by the anti-semite problems the party has been afflicted with. They seemed like good people who obviously had a deep social conscience and concern for the disadvantaged both demostically and personally helping those who had come to the UK as a place of refuge.
I thought posters might find the above interesting!0 -
Philip_Thompson said:
Define nobody. 17.4 million people voted to look beyond Europe just 3 years ago.OllyT said:You have been trying to sell this vision relentlessly for months, but nobody's really buying it. Do you ever ponder why the might be?
My opinion is not unique and was most closely resembling that of The Spectator's editorial "Out - and into the world": https://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/out-and-into-the-world-why-the-spectator-is-for-leave/
I thought at least some of that 17.4m voted for Fortress Britain.
Trouble is there were about six strands of thought which went to make up Leave.0 -
It may not be hard for them to guess, even if you believe you are very careful about such things.ydoethur said:
Indeed yes. It's nice to know it's not only my iPad has serious autocorrect issues.The_Taxman said:I overheard an interesting conversation on a train by two active members of the Labour party today.
Basically, they are disatisfied with Corbyn in a big way. They said he was hopless as leader and they were alarmed by the 17% Labour achieved in a recent poll. It was a really interesting conversation to overhear as they were talking about potential succesors including the shadow foriegn sec. and the shadow Brexit sec. They were rearly unhappy at the direction the party has taken under Corbyn. Interestingly Tom Watson came in for criticism and they said he was a nasty piece of work who would not be a very good replacement of Corbyn.
The two individuals were middle-class Labour party members and they were appalled by the anti-semite problems the party has been afflicted with. They seemed like good people who obviously had a deep social conscience and concern for the disadvantaged both demostically and personally helping those who had come to the UK as a place of refuge.
I thought posters might find the above interesting!
Incidentally that is also my experience of hearing A-level students at my talk. They dislike the Conservatives, but they really loathe and despise Corbyn. They think he is a liar, a racist and a fool. Bear in mind three years ago this was the demographic that practically swooned over him. The antisemitism scandal however has wrecked his image.
And no, I have never told them my personal political opinions.
As for the Labour members, a lot of people were angry or worried about it 2 years ago, and a good performance at the GE quelled the doubters. So Corbyn needs to hang on and hope he can pull that off again (hopefully better this time). Which in fairness does seem tricker with the LDs and more time to get annoyed by him, but I think we've all had our fill of discontented Labour members who still go out to bat for the party when it matters, given the alternatives.0 -
Can ordinary members trigger a ballot? My understanding is MPs would have to. For that, they would need someone with the intestinal fortitude to stand up to the vileness that the likes of Milne and Peters-Bastani would inevitably chuck at them.AndyJS said:
Why do they tolerate Corbyn? Why have they tolerated him for 4 years?The_Taxman said:I overheard an interesting conversation on a train by two active members of the Labour party today.
Basically, they are disatisfied with Corbyn in a big way. They said he was hopless as leader and they were alarmed by the 17% Labour achieved in a recent poll. It was a really interesting conversation to overhear as they were talking about potential succesors including the shadow foriegn sec. and the shadow Brexit sec. They were rearly unhappy at the direction the party has taken under Corbyn. Interestingly Tom Watson came in for criticism and they said he was a nasty piece of work who would not be a very good replacement of Corbyn.
The two individuals were middle-class Labour party members and they were appalled by the anti-semite problems the party has been afflicted with. They seemed like good people who obviously had a deep social conscience and concern for the disadvantaged both demostically and personally helping those who had come to the UK as a place of refuge.
I thought posters might find the above interesting!
I know we've always said Labour moderates have less backbone than the average jellyfish, but you can't altogether blame them for being afraid of suffering what Smith and Eagle did - and possibly all still for nothing.0 -
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Ironically, the Conservatives are about to elect as our new prime minister a man who might also be seen as "a liar, a racist and a fool". O tempora o mores.ydoethur said:
Indeed yes. It's nice to know it's not only my iPad has serious autocorrect issues.The_Taxman said:I overheard an interesting conversation on a train by two active members of the Labour party today.
Basically, they are disatisfied with Corbyn in a big way. They said he was hopless as leader and they were alarmed by the 17% Labour achieved in a recent poll. It was a really interesting conversation to overhear as they were talking about potential succesors including the shadow foriegn sec. and the shadow Brexit sec. They were rearly unhappy at the direction the party has taken under Corbyn. Interestingly Tom Watson came in for criticism and they said he was a nasty piece of work who would not be a very good replacement of Corbyn.
The two individuals were middle-class Labour party members and they were appalled by the anti-semite problems the party has been afflicted with. They seemed like good people who obviously had a deep social conscience and concern for the disadvantaged both demostically and personally helping those who had come to the UK as a place of refuge.
I thought posters might find the above interesting!
Incidentally that is also my experience of hearing A-level students at my talk. They dislike the Conservatives, but they really loathe and despise Corbyn. They think he is a liar, a racist and a fool. Bear in mind three years ago this was the demographic that practically swooned over him. The antisemitism scandal however has wrecked his image.
And no, I have never told them my personal political opinions.0 -
Triggering, surely?Gallowgate said:
Paging HYUFDScott_P said:0 -
I am surprised it is that close to be honestTheScreamingEagles said:BMG - The Gold Standard
https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/11476052347531796480 -
That's oddly equivocal. Why only 'might also be seen as?' I'd go for 'is.'DecrepitJohnL said:
Ironically, the Conservatives are about to elect as our new prime minister a man who might also be seen as "a liar, a racist and a fool". O tempora o mores.ydoethur said:
Indeed yes. It's nice to know it's not only my iPad has serious autocorrect issues.The_Taxman said:I overheard an interesting conversation on a train by two active members of the Labour party today.
Basically, they are disatisfied with Corbyn in a big way. They said he was hopless as leader and they were alarmed by the 17% Labour achieved in a recent poll. It was a really interesting conversation to overhear as they were talking about potential succesors including the shadow foriegn sec. and the shadow Brexit sec. They were rearly unhappy at the direction the party has taken under Corbyn. Interestingly Tom Watson came in for criticism and they said he was a nasty piece of work who would not be a very good replacement of Corbyn.
The two individuals were middle-class Labour party members and they were appalled by the anti-semite problems the party has been afflicted with. They seemed like good people who obviously had a deep social conscience and concern for the disadvantaged both demostically and personally helping those who had come to the UK as a place of refuge.
I thought posters might find the above interesting!
Incidentally that is also my experience of hearing A-level students at my talk. They dislike the Conservatives, but they really loathe and despise Corbyn. They think he is a liar, a racist and a fool. Bear in mind three years ago this was the demographic that practically swooned over him. The antisemitism scandal however has wrecked his image.
And no, I have never told them my personal political opinions.0 -
Yes there was, and the reason for the urgency was the speculation. The rate Sterling entered the ERM was inappropriate from the beginning, coming off the back of Lawson's policy of keeping the value of the pound too high. As part of a single currency, there is plenty of time to adjust to any long-term relative changes.another_richard said:
But there wasn't a speculative attack on the sterling value was there, it was simply that the ERM rate was the wrong value for sterling given the state of the UK economy.williamglenn said:
Once there is a single currency, there can be no speculative attack in the manner of George Soros so the problem doesn't arise.another_richard said:
In other words you accept that currencies might be locked together at rates which are inappropriate for individual countries.williamglenn said:
I would have devalued and renegotiated lower bands.another_richard said:
Out of interest to what level would you have raised interest rates to keep the UK in the ERM ?williamglenn said:
Howe got it absolutely right, and in time it will become received wisdom that staying out of the single currency sent the UK down a political cul-de-sac of self-satisfaction that ended in the humiliation of Brexit.Omnium said:
Just watching the link. (again). It's pretty clear Howe got it wrong.Philip_Thompson said:
Rather depressing and retrograde outlook viewing yourself as merely 'living within Europe'.
We are about to enter the 2020s not the 1950s. We live in a globalised world.
We live in the world, not Europe. Europe will be our competitors, which will be good for us, healthy competition is good. But more importantly our competitors are Asia and America. We need to look beyond Europe and not back to it.
At the time I thought he had a decent point.
And how does a country devalue and renegotiate a lower rate once it has joined the single currency ?
You've just said that yourself:
I would have devalued and renegotiated lower bands
And if the rate at which sterling entered the ERM was inappropriate only two years later, even with the 6% variation which was allowed, how soon would the rate at which the UK entered a single currency be wrong ?
And then what would the UK do ?0 -
Go Boris!!!!!
0 -
Clearly the poll is wrong because it didn't specify a Boris-led No Deal.Gallowgate said:
Paging @HYUFD 0 -
-
Looks like a lot of Don’t Knows on top. Support for No Deal is a minority interest.TheScreamingEagles said:BMG - The Gold Standard
https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/1147605234753179648
0 -
The new Boris super-deal will make no deal unnecessary.williamglenn said:
Clearly the poll is wrong because it didn't specify a Boris-led No Deal.Gallowgate said:
Paging @HYUFD
We must hope.0 -
-
How can you adjust when by definition a single currency is fixed ?williamglenn said:
Yes there was, and the reason for the urgency was the speculation. The rate Sterling entered the ERM was inappropriate from the beginning, coming off the back of Lawson's policy of keeping the value of the pound too high. As part of a single currency, there is plenty of time to adjust to any long-term relative changes.another_richard said:
But there wasn't a speculative attack on the sterling value was there, it was simply that the ERM rate was the wrong value for sterling given the state of the UK economy.williamglenn said:
Once there is a single currency, there can be no speculative attack in the manner of George Soros so the problem doesn't arise.another_richard said:
In other words you accept that currencies might be locked together at rates which are inappropriate for individual countries.williamglenn said:
I would have devalued and renegotiated lower bands.another_richard said:
Out of interest to what level would you have raised interest rates to keep the UK in the ERM ?williamglenn said:
Howe got it absolutely right, and in time it will become received wisdom that staying out of the single currency sent the UK down a political cul-de-sac of self-satisfaction that ended in the humiliation of Brexit.Omnium said:
Just watching the link. (again). It's pretty clear Howe got it wrong.Philip_Thompson said:
Rather depressing and retrograde outlook viewing yourself as merely 'living within Europe'.
We are about to enter the 2020s not the 1950s. We live in a globalised world.
We live in the world, not Europe. Europe will be our competitors, which will be good for us, healthy competition is good. But more importantly our competitors are Asia and America. We need to look beyond Europe and not back to it.
At the time I thought he had a decent point.
And how does a country devalue and renegotiate a lower rate once it has joined the single currency ?
You've just said that yourself:
I would have devalued and renegotiated lower bands
And if the rate at which sterling entered the ERM was inappropriate only two years later, even with the 6% variation which was allowed, how soon would the rate at which the UK entered a single currency be wrong ?
And then what would the UK do ?
But thanks for admitting that currency rates can be inappropriate.
And let me point out that Lawson's shadowing the DM policy was keeping sterling too low at the time.
Which rather proves the point £1=3DM was too low in 1987 but £1=2.95DM was more than 6% too high in 1992.1 -
I am surprised 38% support walking off the cliff edge.SouthamObserver said:
Looks like a lot of Don’t Knows on top. Support for No Deal is a minority interest.TheScreamingEagles said:BMG - The Gold Standard
https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/1147605234753179648
0 -
By embracing the world, same as many companies post-Brexit could build the majority of its business inside Europe while the UK is out of the EU.SouthamObserver said:
Can you explain how my company was able to build the majority of its business outside Europe while the UK was in the EU?Philip_Thompson said:
Define nobody. 17.4 million people voted to look beyond Europe just 3 years ago.OllyT said:You have been trying to sell this vision relentlessly for months, but nobody's really buying it. Do you ever ponder why the might be?
My opinion is not unique and was most closely resembling that of The Spectator's editorial "Out - and into the world": https://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/out-and-into-the-world-why-the-spectator-is-for-leave/
It isn't all or nothing.
0 -
In a way it has been surprising there were not more polls with Lab and Con in 3rd and 4th. Obviously polls like this are still terrible for them both because who the hell knows how that would play out in seats, but still.Scott_P said:0 -
Different firms seem to be suggesting quite different Labour shares recently.Scott_P said:0 -
At least the polls are not herding... 🤷♂️0
-
If the way out is No Deal, Ref 2 or GE... I imagine GE will look tempting.
It's still not clear to me whether parliament can and will stop No Deal, but if they do - then the result is surely GE.0 -
Indeed and quite right too!OldKingCole said:Philip_Thompson said:
Define nobody. 17.4 million people voted to look beyond Europe just 3 years ago.OllyT said:You have been trying to sell this vision relentlessly for months, but nobody's really buying it. Do you ever ponder why the might be?
My opinion is not unique and was most closely resembling that of The Spectator's editorial "Out - and into the world": https://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/out-and-into-the-world-why-the-spectator-is-for-leave/
I thought at least some of that 17.4m voted for Fortress Britain.
Trouble is there were about six strands of thought which went to make up Leave.
That isn't trouble, it is part of having freedom. We can have the freedom to do the right thing, or the wrong thing, or to muddle along.
Brexit isn't an end-state in and of itself any more than being not Roman Catholic defines you religiously. You can choose not to belong to the Treaty of/Church of Rome but to have a different, loosely related Christian faith. Or you can go for a wildly divergent Christian faith. You can be of no faith at all and be agnostic. You can be a different religion altogether like Judaism, Islam, Hinduism. You could believe in Scientology. You can be atheist.
Brexit is simply not in the EU. There are quite rightly a plethora of forms of not being in the EU that we can take and it is for us to shape our destiny, not some high priests.0 -
Interesting. UK's export to China is £25bn or so. Germany's €75bn or so. Both are in the EU. Surely, it didn't stop Germany becoming an exporting powerhouse. Maybe, it has something to do with products and quality of products.Philip_Thompson said:
By embracing the world, same as many companies post-Brexit could build the majority of its business inside Europe while the UK is out of the EU.SouthamObserver said:
Can you explain how my company was able to build the majority of its business outside Europe while the UK was in the EU?Philip_Thompson said:
Define nobody. 17.4 million people voted to look beyond Europe just 3 years ago.OllyT said:You have been trying to sell this vision relentlessly for months, but nobody's really buying it. Do you ever ponder why the might be?
My opinion is not unique and was most closely resembling that of The Spectator's editorial "Out - and into the world": https://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/out-and-into-the-world-why-the-spectator-is-for-leave/
It isn't all or nothing.0 -
He's trying the same script that won last time. It may not work this time, but it's understandable he'd stick to the same points. And Baker, unlike Boris, probably really believes it.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
If necessary by internal devaluation.another_richard said:
How can you adjust when by definition a single currency is fixed ?williamglenn said:
Yes there was, and the reason for the urgency was the speculation. The rate Sterling entered the ERM was inappropriate from the beginning, coming off the back of Lawson's policy of keeping the value of the pound too high. As part of a single currency, there is plenty of time to adjust to any long-term relative changes.another_richard said:
But there wasn't a speculative attack on the sterling value was there, it was simply that the ERM rate was the wrong value for sterling given the state of the UK economy.williamglenn said:
Once there is a single currency, there can be no speculative attack in the manner of George Soros so the problem doesn't arise.another_richard said:
In other words you accept that currencies might be locked together at rates which are inappropriate for individual countries.williamglenn said:
I would have devalued and renegotiated lower bands.another_richard said:
Out of interest to what level would you have raised interest rates to keep the UK in the ERM ?williamglenn said:
Howe got it absolutely right, and in time it will become received wisdom that staying out of the single currency sent the UK down a political cul-de-sac of self-satisfaction that ended in the humiliation of Brexit.Omnium said:
Just watching the link. (again). It's pretty clear Howe got it wrong.Philip_Thompson said:
Rather depressing and retrograde outlook viewing yourself as merely 'living within Europe'.
We are about to enter the 2020s not the 1950s. We live in a globalised world.
We live in the world, not Europe. Europe will be our competitors, which will be good for us, healthy competition is good. But more importantly our competitors are Asia and America. We need to look beyond Europe and not back to it.
At the time I thought he had a decent point.
And how does a country devalue and renegotiate a lower rate once it has joined the single currency ?
You've just said that yourself:
I would have devalued and renegotiated lower bands
And if the rate at which sterling entered the ERM was inappropriate only two years later, even with the 6% variation which was allowed, how soon would the rate at which the UK entered a single currency be wrong ?
And then what would the UK do ?0 -
Internal devaluation? That's all Greek to me.williamglenn said:
If necessary by internal devaluation.another_richard said:
How can you adjust when by definition a single currency is fixed ?williamglenn said:
Yes there was, and the reason for the urgency was the speculation. The rate Sterling entered the ERM was inappropriate from the beginning, coming off the back of Lawson's policy of keeping the value of the pound too high. As part of a single currency, there is plenty of time to adjust to any long-term relative changes.another_richard said:
But there wasn't a speculative attack on the sterling value was there, it was simply that the ERM rate was the wrong value for sterling given the state of the UK economy.williamglenn said:
Once there is a single currency, there can be no speculative attack in the manner of George Soros so the problem doesn't arise.another_richard said:
In other words you accept that currencies might be locked together at rates which are inappropriate for individual countries.williamglenn said:
I would have devalued and renegotiated lower bands.another_richard said:
Out of interest to what level would you have raised interest rates to keep the UK in the ERM ?williamglenn said:
Howe got it absolutely right, and in time it will become received wisdom that staying out of the single currency sent the UK down a political cul-de-sac of self-satisfaction that ended in the humiliation of Brexit.Omnium said:
Just watching the link. (again). It's pretty clear Howe got it wrong.Philip_Thompson said:
Rather depressing and retrograde outlook viewing yourself as merely 'living within Europe'.
We are about to enter the 2020s not the 1950s. We live in a globalised world.
We live in the world, not Europe. Europe will be our competitors, which will be good for us, healthy competition is good. But more importantly our competitors are Asia and America. We need to look beyond Europe and not back to it.
At the time I thought he had a decent point.
And how does a country devalue and renegotiate a lower rate once it has joined the single currency ?
You've just said that yourself:
I would have devalued and renegotiated lower bands
And if the rate at which sterling entered the ERM was inappropriate only two years later, even with the 6% variation which was allowed, how soon would the rate at which the UK entered a single currency be wrong ?
And then what would the UK do ?
Goodnight.0 -
FWIWkle4 said:
In a way it has been surprising there were not more polls with Lab and Con in 3rd and 4th. Obviously polls like this are still terrible for them both because who the hell knows how that would play out in seats, but still.Scott_P said:
https://twitter.com/Jamessteel2008/status/1147610576362844160?s=190 -
Well you backed it last time are you backing it now?kle4 said:
He's trying the same script that won last time. It may not work this time, but it's understandable he'd stick to the same points. And Baker, unlike Boris, probably really believes it.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Perhaps but then we need to ask why that is the case ?surbiton19 said:
Interesting. UK's export to China is £25bn or so. Germany's €75bn or so. Both are in the EU. Surely, it didn't stop Germany becoming an exporting powerhouse. Maybe, it has something to do with products and quality of products.Philip_Thompson said:
By embracing the world, same as many companies post-Brexit could build the majority of its business inside Europe while the UK is out of the EU.SouthamObserver said:
Can you explain how my company was able to build the majority of its business outside Europe while the UK was in the EU?Philip_Thompson said:
Define nobody. 17.4 million people voted to look beyond Europe just 3 years ago.OllyT said:You have been trying to sell this vision relentlessly for months, but nobody's really buying it. Do you ever ponder why the might be?
My opinion is not unique and was most closely resembling that of The Spectator's editorial "Out - and into the world": https://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/out-and-into-the-world-why-the-spectator-is-for-leave/
It isn't all or nothing.
Possibly because British people and governments are more interested in consuming wealth than in creating it and the opposite applies in Germany ?0 -
I didn't back that part of the argument last time and don't know. On balance I backed Leave then, but I don't now.TheScreamingEagles said:
Well you backed it last time are you backing it now?kle4 said:
He's trying the same script that won last time. It may not work this time, but it's understandable he'd stick to the same points. And Baker, unlike Boris, probably really believes it.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
"Javid backs Boris - and bids to be Chancellor"0
-
I what way does Brexit resolve that?another_richard said:
Perhaps but then we need to ask why that is the case ?surbiton19 said:
Interesting. UK's export to China is £25bn or so. Germany's €75bn or so. Both are in the EU. Surely, it didn't stop Germany becoming an exporting powerhouse. Maybe, it has something to do with products and quality of products.Philip_Thompson said:
By embracing the world, same as many companies post-Brexit could build the majority of its business inside Europe while the UK is out of the EU.SouthamObserver said:
Can you explain how my company was able to build the majority of its business outside Europe while the UK was in the EU?Philip_Thompson said:
Define nobody. 17.4 million people voted to look beyond Europe just 3 years ago.OllyT said:You have been trying to sell this vision relentlessly for months, but nobody's really buying it. Do you ever ponder why the might be?
My opinion is not unique and was most closely resembling that of The Spectator's editorial "Out - and into the world": https://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/out-and-into-the-world-why-the-spectator-is-for-leave/
It isn't all or nothing.
Possibly because British people and governments are more interested in consuming wealth than in creating it and the opposite applies in Germany ?0 -
Sigh. A PM not bluffing about it hardly matters when they know parliament will fight it tooth and nail. If it would even matter if they were not.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Our politicians can be held to account in setting policies that suit the country and not be determined by unelected bureaucrats or to blame it on them.Foxy said:
I what way does Brexit resolve that?another_richard said:
Perhaps but then we need to ask why that is the case ?surbiton19 said:
Interesting. UK's export to China is £25bn or so. Germany's €75bn or so. Both are in the EU. Surely, it didn't stop Germany becoming an exporting powerhouse. Maybe, it has something to do with products and quality of products.Philip_Thompson said:
By embracing the world, same as many companies post-Brexit could build the majority of its business inside Europe while the UK is out of the EU.SouthamObserver said:
Can you explain how my company was able to build the majority of its business outside Europe while the UK was in the EU?Philip_Thompson said:
Define nobody. 17.4 million people voted to look beyond Europe just 3 years ago.OllyT said:You have been trying to sell this vision relentlessly for months, but nobody's really buying it. Do you ever ponder why the might be?
My opinion is not unique and was most closely resembling that of The Spectator's editorial "Out - and into the world": https://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/out-and-into-the-world-why-the-spectator-is-for-leave/
It isn't all or nothing.
Possibly because British people and governments are more interested in consuming wealth than in creating it and the opposite applies in Germany ?0 -
Do you think politicians never managed to shift the blame before the EU existed? Do you think blame-shifting doesn't exist in the rest of the world?Philip_Thompson said:
Our politicians can be held to account in setting policies that suit the country and not be determined by unelected bureaucrats or to blame it on them.Foxy said:
I what way does Brexit resolve that?another_richard said:
Perhaps but then we need to ask why that is the case ?surbiton19 said:
Interesting. UK's export to China is £25bn or so. Germany's €75bn or so. Both are in the EU. Surely, it didn't stop Germany becoming an exporting powerhouse. Maybe, it has something to do with products and quality of products.Philip_Thompson said:
By embracing the world, same as many companies post-Brexit could build the majority of its business inside Europe while the UK is out of the EU.SouthamObserver said:
Can you explain how my company was able to build the majority of its business outside Europe while the UK was in the EU?Philip_Thompson said:
Define nobody. 17.4 million people voted to look beyond Europe just 3 years ago.OllyT said:You have been trying to sell this vision relentlessly for months, but nobody's really buying it. Do you ever ponder why the might be?
My opinion is not unique and was most closely resembling that of The Spectator's editorial "Out - and into the world": https://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/out-and-into-the-world-why-the-spectator-is-for-leave/
It isn't all or nothing.
Possibly because British people and governments are more interested in consuming wealth than in creating it and the opposite applies in Germany ?0 -
Who said it did ?Foxy said:
I what way does Brexit resolve that?another_richard said:
Perhaps but then we need to ask why that is the case ?surbiton19 said:
Interesting. UK's export to China is £25bn or so. Germany's €75bn or so. Both are in the EU. Surely, it didn't stop Germany becoming an exporting powerhouse. Maybe, it has something to do with products and quality of products.Philip_Thompson said:
By embracing the world, same as many companies post-Brexit could build the majority of its business inside Europe while the UK is out of the EU.SouthamObserver said:
Can you explain how my company was able to build the majority of its business outside Europe while the UK was in the EU?Philip_Thompson said:
Define nobody. 17.4 million people voted to look beyond Europe just 3 years ago.OllyT said:You have been trying to sell this vision relentlessly for months, but nobody's really buying it. Do you ever ponder why the might be?
My opinion is not unique and was most closely resembling that of The Spectator's editorial "Out - and into the world": https://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/out-and-into-the-world-why-the-spectator-is-for-leave/
It isn't all or nothing.
Possibly because British people and governments are more interested in consuming wealth than in creating it and the opposite applies in Germany ?
Though I increasingly think that the UK does need some sort of system shock to force it to live within its means and to properly look at productivity, investment, housing and doubtless other issues.
The things which needed looking at over a decade ago but which instead got pasted over with a trillion quid of government borrow and spend.1 -
We need Angus Reid. Gold standard.0
-
Of course it exists but our Parliamentary system works rather well at holding our elected politicians to account and Brexit gives them full control and nowhere to hide.williamglenn said:
Do you think politicians never managed to shift the blame before the EU existed? Do you think blame-shifting doesn't exist in the rest of the world?Philip_Thompson said:
Our politicians can be held to account in setting policies that suit the country and not be determined by unelected bureaucrats or to blame it on them.Foxy said:
I what way does Brexit resolve that?another_richard said:
Perhaps but then we need to ask why that is the case ?surbiton19 said:
Interesting. UK's export to China is £25bn or so. Germany's €75bn or so. Both are in the EU. Surely, it didn't stop Germany becoming an exporting powerhouse. Maybe, it has something to do with products and quality of products.Philip_Thompson said:
By embracing the world, same as many companies post-Brexit could build the majority of its business inside Europe while the UK is out of the EU.SouthamObserver said:
Can you explain how my company was able to build the majority of its business outside Europe while the UK was in the EU?Philip_Thompson said:
Define nobody. 17.4 million people voted to look beyond Europe just 3 years ago.OllyT said:You have been trying to sell this vision relentlessly for months, but nobody's really buying it. Do you ever ponder why the might be?
My opinion is not unique and was most closely resembling that of The Spectator's editorial "Out - and into the world": https://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/out-and-into-the-world-why-the-spectator-is-for-leave/
It isn't all or nothing.
Possibly because British people and governments are more interested in consuming wealth than in creating it and the opposite applies in Germany ?
Better than our inability to hold the unelected von der Leyen to account.0 -
That is exactly the comments to me by Team Boris when they phoned last night and I objected to no dealScott_P said:
Looks as if Boris is playing Hyufd and others to gain support0 -
I am aware of the view, and its associated precept that "distance doesn't matter". I need to point out that the present grinding mess illustrates the fact that a beautiful theory can be derailed by logistics.Philip_Thompson said:
Define nobody. 17.4 million people voted to look beyond Europe just 3 years ago.OllyT said:You have been trying to sell this vision relentlessly for months, but nobody's really buying it. Do you ever ponder why the might be?
My opinion is not unique and was most closely resembling that of The Spectator's editorial "Out - and into the world": https://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/out-and-into-the-world-why-the-spectator-is-for-leave/0 -
-
-
No one in the EU read newspapers clearly.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That is exactly the comments to me by Team Boris when they phoned last night and I objected to no dealScott_P said:
Looks as if Boris is playing Hyufd and others to gain support0 -
We can sack her via a vote of no confidence, just like a British PM.Philip_Thompson said:Better than our inability to hold the unelected von der Leyen to account.
0 -
Well quite.NickPalmer said:We have recent experience of how well governing parties do when they're ahead in the polls and try to cash in with a snap election.
Didn’t we have lots of polls showing that Mrs May would get an equally humungously large majority? Whatever happened to her?0 -
So cutting wages and cutting government spending.williamglenn said:
If necessary by internal devaluation.another_richard said:
How can you adjust when by definition a single currency is fixed ?williamglenn said:
Yes there was, and the reason for the urgency was the speculation. The rate Sterling entered the ERM was inappropriate from the beginning, coming off the back of Lawson's policy of keeping the value of the pound too high. As part of a single currency, there is plenty of time to adjust to any long-term relative changes.another_richard said:
But there wasn't a speculative attack on the sterling value was there, it was simply that the ERM rate was the wrong value for sterling given the state of the UK economy.williamglenn said:
Once there is a single currency, there can be no speculative attack in the manner of George Soros so the problem doesn't arise.another_richard said:
In other words you accept that currencies might be locked together at rates which are inappropriate for individual countries.williamglenn said:
I would have devalued and renegotiated lower bands.another_richard said:
Out of interest to what level would you have raised interest rates to keep the UK in the ERM ?williamglenn said:
Howe got it absolutely right, and in time it will become received wisdom that staying out of the single currency sent the UK down a political cul-de-sac of self-satisfaction that ended in the humiliation of Brexit.Omnium said:
Just watching the link. (again). It's pretty clear Howe got it wrong.
At the time I thought he had a decent point.
And how does a country devalue and renegotiate a lower rate once it has joined the single currency ?
You've just said that yourself:
I would have devalued and renegotiated lower bands
And if the rate at which sterling entered the ERM was inappropriate only two years later, even with the 6% variation which was allowed, how soon would the rate at which the UK entered a single currency be wrong ?
And then what would the UK do ?
Good luck trying that.
You would also need to improve foreign language teaching for all the young people who would need to emigrate.0 -
Oh no, looks like "even Grayling" could go. However will we survive?Scott_P said:0 -
Hardly a surprise to be fairScott_P said:0 -
Absolutely nothing is stopping British companies embracing the world now. It will be much harder to do business inside the EU post-Brexit and by leaving the Single Market and the Customs Union we will make ourselves a less attractive investment option than we are now.Philip_Thompson said:
By embracing the world, same as many companies post-Brexit could build the majority of its business inside Europe while the UK is out of the EU.SouthamObserver said:
Can you explain how my company was able to build the majority of its business outside Europe while the UK was in the EU?Philip_Thompson said:
Define nobody. 17.4 million people voted to look beyond Europe just 3 years ago.OllyT said:You have been trying to sell this vision relentlessly for months, but nobody's really buying it. Do you ever ponder why the might be?
My opinion is not unique and was most closely resembling that of The Spectator's editorial "Out - and into the world": https://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/out-and-into-the-world-why-the-spectator-is-for-leave/
It isn't all or nothing.
0 -
So it had nothing to do with the EU.another_richard said:
Perhaps but then we need to ask why that is the case ?surbiton19 said:
Interesting. UK's export to China is £25bn or so. Germany's €75bn or so. Both are in the EU. Surely, it didn't stop Germany becoming an exporting powerhouse. Maybe, it has something to do with products and quality of products.Philip_Thompson said:
By embracing the world, same as many companies post-Brexit could build the majority of its business inside Europe while the UK is out of the EU.SouthamObserver said:
Can you explain how my company was able to build the majority of its business outside Europe while the UK was in the EU?Philip_Thompson said:
Define nobody. 17.4 million people voted to look beyond Europe just 3 years ago.OllyT said:You have been trying to sell this vision relentlessly for months, but nobody's really buying it. Do you ever ponder why the might be?
My opinion is not unique and was most closely resembling that of The Spectator's editorial "Out - and into the world": https://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/out-and-into-the-world-why-the-spectator-is-for-leave/
It isn't all or nothing.
Possibly because British people and governments are more interested in consuming wealth than in creating it and the opposite applies in Germany ?0 -
They can use Duolingo and Easyjet.another_richard said:You would also need to improve foreign language teaching for all the young people who would need to emigrate.
0 -
British PMs also have a tendency to front General Elections and can be sacked then. Rather different to von der Leyen.williamglenn said:
We can sack her via a vote of no confidence, just like a British PM.Philip_Thompson said:Better than our inability to hold the unelected von der Leyen to account.
0 -
Absolutely nothing is stopping British companies embracing the European Union post-Brexit.SouthamObserver said:
Absolutely nothing is stopping British companies embracing the world now. It will be much harder to do business inside the EU post-Brexit and by leaving the Single Market and the Customs Union we will make ourselves a less attractive investment option than we are now.Philip_Thompson said:
By embracing the world, same as many companies post-Brexit could build the majority of its business inside Europe while the UK is out of the EU.SouthamObserver said:
Can you explain how my company was able to build the majority of its business outside Europe while the UK was in the EU?Philip_Thompson said:
Define nobody. 17.4 million people voted to look beyond Europe just 3 years ago.OllyT said:You have been trying to sell this vision relentlessly for months, but nobody's really buying it. Do you ever ponder why the might be?
My opinion is not unique and was most closely resembling that of The Spectator's editorial "Out - and into the world": https://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/out-and-into-the-world-why-the-spectator-is-for-leave/
It isn't all or nothing.
Post-Brexit business environment will be set by the politicians we choose to elect.0 -
If Boris becomes PM he will be the third out of the last four Prime Ministers to have become PM without a general election.Philip_Thompson said:
British PMs also have a tendency to front General Elections and can be sacked then. Rather different to von der Leyen.williamglenn said:
We can sack her via a vote of no confidence, just like a British PM.Philip_Thompson said:Better than our inability to hold the unelected von der Leyen to account.
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The environment in Europe will be set by people we decided not to electPhilip_Thompson said:Absolutely nothing is stopping British companies embracing the European Union post-Brexit.
Post-Brexit business environment will be set by the politicians we choose to elect.0 -
And in totally unrelated news, Labour whistleblowers to appear in Panorama exposé to be broadcast on Wednesday.TheScreamingEagles said:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7220371/Labour-leader-faces-having-ditch-two-closest-aides-new-anti-Semitism-allegations.html
Carter-F**k hoping to get an injunction against the programme?0
