politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Corbyn plummets to record low in latest Ipsos-MORI leader sati
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Nice thinking 👍Pulpstar said:
Javid looks a good bet at 7-4 for chancellor now I think ?MikeL said:I certainly hope Boris will have Javid as Chancellor.
Based on the start of QT, Truss would be way out of her depth.
Boris is 1-5 vs Hunt, so you're basically punting that the rumour is true at 5-4ish.
Seeing as Javid was the last man standing whose votes could be used tactically to knock Gove out (Boris' main threat) and keep Hunt in, also the fact he's got great office of state experience and would be Britain's first Asian chancellor makes the rumour more likely to be true than not.
I think the Truss rumour probably started as she was Boris' proposer but she doesn't have the gravitas needed.
Remainer Hammond also going must be a racing certainty.
£20 on Javid anyway.0 -
Yes, if the cake is not fixed, you can expand itPhilip_Thompson said:
Lefties still haven't heard of the Laffer Curve. Probably never will.HYUFD said:
It is the tax cuts that will grow the economy to raise the revenues to pay for the promisesdixiedean said:
So Boris is promising tax cuts for the wealthy, tax cuts for the struggling, no stamp duty, 20 000 new police officers, more nurses, teachers and doctors, more spending on everything under the sun.Cyclefree said:
Great: just what we need. Another house price surge followed by a crash.TGOHF said:
Do the Tories ever think that an economy can be something more than people buying and selling overpriced terraced houses to each other ?
Morons.
After Brexit, we'll all be employees of the State, and paying no tax.
Remind me who is the Marxist?0 -
Yes there is, Twitter has extremely poor margins.Philip_Thompson said:
Except Twitter don't remove controversy and by occasionally banning people they can even egg on the controversy, only to soon unban people afterwards.MaxPB said:
Yes. Though I don't think it would be proven. Twitter relies on controversy to drive traffic. Removing the controversy will result in fewer impressions/clicks and lower advertising revenue.Stereotomy said:If it were proven to your satisfaction that a strict moderation policy helped, rather than harmed, their bottom line, would you be in favour?
Its like trying to get a pan as hot as possible without letting the contents boil over.
There's no reason to suggest they don't know exactly what they're doing.0 -
Yes there's a lot of good evidence actually.dixiedean said:
While the Right have no concept of what levels of taxation the Laffer Curve is effective at.Philip_Thompson said:
Lefties still haven't heard of the Laffer Curve. Probably never will.HYUFD said:
It is the tax cuts that will grow the economy to raise the revenues to pay for the promisesdixiedean said:
So Boris is promising tax cuts for the wealthy, tax cuts for the struggling, no stamp duty, 20 000 new police officers, more nurses, teachers and doctors, more spending on everything under the sun.Cyclefree said:
Great: just what we need. Another house price surge followed by a crash.TGOHF said:
Do the Tories ever think that an economy can be something more than people buying and selling overpriced terraced houses to each other ?
Morons.
After Brexit, we'll all be employees of the State, and paying no tax.
Remind me who is the Marxist?
Look at Corporation Tax. Its been cut continuously by this government yet is now drawing in more revenues than it was getting before they were elected. Funny that ...0 -
...and not because his pants are on fire?dixiedean said:
The smoke filled room was traditionally only caused by tobacco...Mexicanpete said:
Boris has been coming up with some impressive policy announcements. Have they been carefully crafted in a smoke filled room, or like the bus-modelling nonsense did they just trip off his forked tongue?dixiedean said:
So Boris is promising tax cuts for the wealthy, tax cuts for the struggling, no stamp duty, 20 000 new police officers, more nurses, teachers and doctors, more spending on everything under the sun.Cyclefree said:
Great: just what we need. Another house price surge followed by a crash.TGOHF said:
Do the Tories ever think that an economy can be something more than people buying and selling overpriced terraced houses to each other ?
Morons.
After Brexit, we'll all be employees of the State, and paying no tax.
Remind me who is the Marxist?0 -
Surely this increases the controversy around Twitter, and so makes Twitter more valuable. What shareholders wouldn't like it? Most right-wingers don't promote neo-Nazis and anti-Semites.MaxPB said:
Surely the issue is that the terms of service are a stupid policy that harm shareholder value by excluding half of the population. Twitter makes money from controversy, the ToS seem designed to reduce that and turn it into a liberal echo chamber. It's a shareholder/fiduciary duty issue, rather than a first amendment one IMO, the board are acting against the interests of the shareholders and serving their own liberal agenda.rcs1000 said:
I think the issue is that other peoples' tweets were being taken down for violating Twitter's terms of service, but famous people (i.e. Trump) weren't been held to the same rules.Charles said:
I’m uncomfortable with thisTheScreamingEagles said:Call it the Trump rule.
Twitter will attach a special label to tweets by major political figures if their content violates the site’s rules but the deleting them is not in the public interest, the company said Thursday.
Tweets affected by the new measure will remain on the site, but will not appear in searches or be recommended to users through any of Twitter’s algorithmic channels. When they do appear in a user’s timeline, they will be hidden behind an interstitial reading: “The Twitter Rules about abusive behavior apply to this Tweet. However, Twitter has determined that it may be in the public’s interest for the Tweet to remain available.” Users can then click through to view the tweet if they desire.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/jun/27/twitter-warning-labels-tweets-violate-site-rules
An elected politician should be able to say what they want and the voters judge them accordingly
This, of course, is a halfway house that satisfies no-one. The tweets are still there (which they wouldn't be if you or I tweeted them), but they're being somewhat hidden.
Twitter is, of course, free to have whatever Terms of Service they like. Their site, their rules. Perhaps the best way around this would be to have a machine learning algorithm that checked (without human intervension) if a tweet breached Terms of Service. And if it did, it told the Tweeter, your Tweet was not published for the following reason, please change it and resubmit.0 -
My CLP, which is 80%+ pro-Remain, voted tonight to reject the motion going round CLPs instructing the leadership to back Remain, in favour of just supporting a referendum with Remain option - the majority view was to trust the leadership and accept a "Harold Wilson" free vote if that's what seemed best; the minority felt we needed to take a firm position and fight Brexit. 45 minutes of very good-humoured debate. Corbyn retains membership backing IMO, though there's a lot of frustration that the compromise position isn't being championed properly.anothernick said:
I think he will be forced to by the weight of opinion within the party were an election to be called. Labour could not go into an election promising to implement the WDA and there are no other Brexit options available.RobD said:
Evidence that Corbyn will support such a move? He seems mighty reluctant to do so.anothernick said:
Quite. If the choice is no deal with Boris or remain/2nd referendum with Corbyn then I'm afraid it will have to be Corbyn.DecrepitJohnL said:
Except perhaps the circumstance where the alternative is Boris Johnson. We may find out this autumn.Big_G_NorthWales said:Corbyn - not fit for Office in any circumstances
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I meant in the context of banning people who violate their TOS (even temporarily).MaxPB said:
Yes there is, Twitter has extremely poor margins.Philip_Thompson said:
Except Twitter don't remove controversy and by occasionally banning people they can even egg on the controversy, only to soon unban people afterwards.MaxPB said:
Yes. Though I don't think it would be proven. Twitter relies on controversy to drive traffic. Removing the controversy will result in fewer impressions/clicks and lower advertising revenue.Stereotomy said:If it were proven to your satisfaction that a strict moderation policy helped, rather than harmed, their bottom line, would you be in favour?
Its like trying to get a pan as hot as possible without letting the contents boil over.
There's no reason to suggest they don't know exactly what they're doing.
I don't think their margins are due to TOS violation bans. And if advertisers walked away if Twitter didn't have TOS then their margins could be even worse.0 -
That's actually a really good point. The details or obstacles are unimportant, and yet the concept itself is of deathly importance. It is essential for democracy, but not if it is not done in the particular way they want apparently. Belief is all that matters, concern is simply fearmongering.Cyclefree said:
They talk as if it is both the most important thing in the world ... and also something which will be barely noticedTGOHF said:
And yet the strangest thing is as you describe, that any idea of difficulties (even if they can be overcome) is scoffed at, even though we need to get out so badly it is literally described as do or die.
Bizarre. They've turned me right off Brexit, these Brexiteers - they couldn't take yes for an answer, they had to go for more. And no, arseholes like Dominic Grieve (with his latest wheeze the mask seems to be slipping a bit, and erudition does not stop someone being an arsehole) trying to derail from the other side does not excuse them.
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Former Ed Miliband adviser Ayesha Hasarika on QT says she expects a general election soon as the hung Parliament will not vote for a Boris government and it would be a de facto second referendum, hard Brexit with Boris or EUref20
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Yes, because more people have incorporated to dodge other taxes.Philip_Thompson said:
Yes there's a lot of good evidence actually.dixiedean said:
While the Right have no concept of what levels of taxation the Laffer Curve is effective at.Philip_Thompson said:
Lefties still haven't heard of the Laffer Curve. Probably never will.HYUFD said:
It is the tax cuts that will grow the economy to raise the revenues to pay for the promisesdixiedean said:
So Boris is promising tax cuts for the wealthy, tax cuts for the struggling, no stamp duty, 20 000 new police officers, more nurses, teachers and doctors, more spending on everything under the sun.Cyclefree said:
Great: just what we need. Another house price surge followed by a crash.TGOHF said:
Do the Tories ever think that an economy can be something more than people buying and selling overpriced terraced houses to each other ?
Morons.
After Brexit, we'll all be employees of the State, and paying no tax.
Remind me who is the Marxist?
Look at Corporation Tax. Its been cut continuously by this government yet is now drawing in more revenues than it was getting before they were elected. Funny that ...
Including yours truly!0 -
Not if you eat the real thing. It is a bit gamey not the bland stuff you get here.Charles said:
Goodness, no!Cyclefree said:
I would walk over hot coals for a fresh buffalo mozzarella, eaten fresh on its own._Anazina_ said:Pizza is a vastly overrated foodstuff, generally. Very good simple stone baked Italian pizzas are a joy, sure, but not worth frothing about. Essentially it’s posh cheese on toast, a snack. There are better things to do with a gastronomic life than seek it out.
You can see the buffalo herds just south of Paestum, which is stunning and worth a visit even if no food were available.
It needs a succulent beef tomato and a hint of fresh basil, otherwise the texture palls
And San Marzano tomatoes grown in the sun and so tasting of tomato not water.
Regardless - if you are interested in classical architecture and history, Paestum is a must see.0 -
I doubt it. Clarke is very popular in the constituency and has a large personal vote. But it is also a Conservative stronghold and the Lib Dems have done atrociously in the constituency in the recent past including at the last local elections in 2017. The only hold one seat in the whole county council and that is Beeston. It is certainly not fertile ground for them in spite of Clarke's personal standing.OnlyLivingBoy said:0 -
Ah yes, the Keynes Perversion. I must introduce you to Socialist Worker friends of similar mind.HYUFD said:
It is the tax cuts that will grow the economy to raise the revenues to pay for the promisesdixiedean said:
So Boris is promising tax cuts for the wealthy, tax cuts for the struggling, no stamp duty, 20 000 new police officers, more nurses, teachers and doctors, more spending on everything under the sun.Cyclefree said:
Great: just what we need. Another house price surge followed by a crash.TGOHF said:
Do the Tories ever think that an economy can be something more than people buying and selling overpriced terraced houses to each other ?
Morons.
After Brexit, we'll all be employees of the State, and paying no tax.
Remind me who is the Marxist?0 -
I am still backing Boris, yes absolutely, though clowns often have the last laugh_Anazina_ said:
Are you still backing the clown to be PM?HYUFD said:
Corbo is anti but only because he can use SNP and Scottish Labour MPs to override a Tory majority in England and become PM if needed and for a similar reason he opposes Welsh independence because of the inbuilt Labour majority there._Anazina_ said:
Does anyone know whether Corbo is pro, or anti, Scots independence?StuartDickson said:Scottish independence: Dugdale says Corbyn could allow indyref2
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-48790775
Northern Ireland he is less bothered about losing to Irish reunification as he is close to Sinn Fein but they never take their seats unlike the DUP who do and are currently propping up the Tories.0 -
The competitive media environment should logically speaking lead to a profit-maximising level of internal controversy on media platforms, if we think markets work. Actually, it appears that the profit-maximising level of internal controversy in modern media does not need to be very high. You can have lots of Team A partisans as long as many of them generate content about Team B. Probably the most profitable set-up for Twitter would be to split off a Red Twitter from a Blue Twitter and let socialists and Republicans hang out on the one, segregated from the Democrats and Tories on the other.0
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I don't agree that Twitter is a utility. But ignoring that for a second:Charles said:
Utilities are regulated. Twitter is a utility in my view.rcs1000 said:
I think the issue is that other peoples' tweets were being taken down for violating Twitter's terms of service, but famous people (i.e. Trump) weren't been held to the same rules.Charles said:
I’m uncomfortable with thisTheScreamingEagles said:Call it the Trump rule.
Twitter will attach a special label to tweets by major political figures if their content violates the site’s rules but the deleting them is not in the public interest, the company said Thursday.
Tweets affected by the new measure will remain on the site, but will not appear in searches or be recommended to users through any of Twitter’s algorithmic channels. When they do appear in a user’s timeline, they will be hidden behind an interstitial reading: “The Twitter Rules about abusive behavior apply to this Tweet. However, Twitter has determined that it may be in the public’s interest for the Tweet to remain available.” Users can then click through to view the tweet if they desire.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/jun/27/twitter-warning-labels-tweets-violate-site-rules
An elected politician should be able to say what they want and the voters judge them accordingly
This, of course, is a halfway house that satisfies no-one. The tweets are still there (which they wouldn't be if you or I tweeted them), but they're being somewhat hidden.
Twitter is, of course, free to have whatever Terms of Service they like. Their site, their rules. Perhaps the best way around this would be to have a machine learning algorithm that checked (without human intervension) if a tweet breached Terms of Service. And if it did, it told the Tweeter, your Tweet was not published for the following reason, please change it and resubmit.
Should elected officials' tweets be held to different standards to regular peoples'
Because that's the situation right now.0 -
Anyone who wants to buy a house hates stamp duty. Nice populist move from Boris - more please!_Anazina_ said:
As true as that all is, the more surprising thing is how narrow and unimaginative a tax cut that is. If he really wants to make tax cuts (and I think it’s on balance unwise), he’d be better off chopping income tax. What happened to that plan?Cyclefree said:
Great: just what we need. Another house price surge followed by a crash.TGOHF said:
Do the Tories ever think that an economy can be something more than people buying and selling overpriced terraced houses to each other ?
Morons.0 -
Well that's there problem, isn't it? If they kill off what makes Twitter work they end up irrelevant and dead.MaxPB said:
Surely the issue is that the terms of service are a stupid policy that harm shareholder value by excluding half of the population. Twitter makes money from controversy, the ToS seem designed to reduce that and turn it into a liberal echo chamber. It's a shareholder/fiduciary duty issue, rather than a first amendment one IMO, the board are acting against the interests of the shareholders and serving their own liberal agenda.rcs1000 said:
I think the issue is that other peoples' tweets were being taken down for violating Twitter's terms of service, but famous people (i.e. Trump) weren't been held to the same rules.Charles said:
I’m uncomfortable with thisTheScreamingEagles said:Call it the Trump rule.
Twitter will attach a special label to tweets by major political figures if their content violates the site’s rules but the deleting them is not in the public interest, the company said Thursday.
Tweets affected by the new measure will remain on the site, but will not appear in searches or be recommended to users through any of Twitter’s algorithmic channels. When they do appear in a user’s timeline, they will be hidden behind an interstitial reading: “The Twitter Rules about abusive behavior apply to this Tweet. However, Twitter has determined that it may be in the public’s interest for the Tweet to remain available.” Users can then click through to view the tweet if they desire.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/jun/27/twitter-warning-labels-tweets-violate-site-rules
An elected politician should be able to say what they want and the voters judge them accordingly
This, of course, is a halfway house that satisfies no-one. The tweets are still there (which they wouldn't be if you or I tweeted them), but they're being somewhat hidden.
Twitter is, of course, free to have whatever Terms of Service they like. Their site, their rules. Perhaps the best way around this would be to have a machine learning algorithm that checked (without human intervension) if a tweet breached Terms of Service. And if it did, it told the Tweeter, your Tweet was not published for the following reason, please change it and resubmit.
It certainly shouldn't be solved by the government intervening.0 -
Twitter is no more a utility than MySpace.rcs1000 said:
I don't agree that Twitter is a utility. But ignoring that for a second:Charles said:
Utilities are regulated. Twitter is a utility in my view.rcs1000 said:
I think the issue is that other peoples' tweets were being taken down for violating Twitter's terms of service, but famous people (i.e. Trump) weren't been held to the same rules.Charles said:
I’m uncomfortable with thisTheScreamingEagles said:Call it the Trump rule.
Twitter will attach a special label to tweets by major political figures if their content violates the site’s rules but the deleting them is not in the public interest, the company said Thursday.
Tweets affected by the new measure will remain on the site, but will not appear in searches or be recommended to users through any of Twitter’s algorithmic channels. When they do appear in a user’s timeline, they will be hidden behind an interstitial reading: “The Twitter Rules about abusive behavior apply to this Tweet. However, Twitter has determined that it may be in the public’s interest for the Tweet to remain available.” Users can then click through to view the tweet if they desire.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/jun/27/twitter-warning-labels-tweets-violate-site-rules
An elected politician should be able to say what they want and the voters judge them accordingly
This, of course, is a halfway house that satisfies no-one. The tweets are still there (which they wouldn't be if you or I tweeted them), but they're being somewhat hidden.
Twitter is, of course, free to have whatever Terms of Service they like. Their site, their rules. Perhaps the best way around this would be to have a machine learning algorithm that checked (without human intervension) if a tweet breached Terms of Service. And if it did, it told the Tweeter, your Tweet was not published for the following reason, please change it and resubmit.
Should elected officials' tweets be held to different standards to regular peoples'
Because that's the situation right now.0 -
That's the problem though, the liberals that run Twitter seem happy to label half of the population as Nazis or something along those lines, this creates a sugar rush, but in the longer term excluding half of the population will mean less traffic and lower ad yields. That's for a business which is already on the back foot for both measures having turned a profit on the back of the views/click through created by Trump.EPG said:Surely this increases the controversy around Twitter, and so makes Twitter more valuable. What shareholders wouldn't like it? Most right-wingers don't promote neo-Nazis and anti-Semites.
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I'm sure the three businesses that survive his purges will be very impressed!valleyboy said:
Agree entirely. Will make a good chancellor if he gets the chance. May even win over some businesses as well._Anazina_ said:
Think McD is underrated. Smart guy whatever one thinks of his politics.TrèsDifficile said:
Would Johnson beat McDonnell?alex. said:
How about Johnson vs Labour leader not Corbyn?HYUFD said:In a likely Boris v Corbyn v Swinson general election only one of those is going to end up PM and it will almost certainly be Boris with a mandate for Brexit.
The real question may well end up being whether Corbyn can hold off Swinson and the LDs for second place, at least in voteshare I think the LDs could overtake Labour if Labour continues like this
And what will Johnson be seeking from his FTA, and what will he offer the EU in return?0 -
Yes, I'm definitely not in favour of government regulation of private media. It's a one way ticket to state sponsored propaganda.rcs1000 said:
Well that's there problem, isn't it? If they kill off what makes Twitter work they end up irrelevant and dead.MaxPB said:
Surely the issue is that the terms of service are a stupid policy that harm shareholder value by excluding half of the population. Twitter makes money from controversy, the ToS seem designed to reduce that and turn it into a liberal echo chamber. It's a shareholder/fiduciary duty issue, rather than a first amendment one IMO, the board are acting against the interests of the shareholders and serving their own liberal agenda.rcs1000 said:
I think the issue is that other peoples' tweets were being taken down for violating Twitter's terms of service, but famous people (i.e. Trump) weren't been held to the same rules.Charles said:
I’m uncomfortable with thisTheScreamingEagles said:Call it the Trump rule.
Twitter will attach a special label to tweets by major political figures if their content violates the site’s rules but the deleting them is not in the public interest, the company said Thursday.
Tweets affected by the new measure will remain on the site, but will not appear in searches or be recommended to users through any of Twitter’s algorithmic channels. When they do appear in a user’s timeline, they will be hidden behind an interstitial reading: “The Twitter Rules about abusive behavior apply to this Tweet. However, Twitter has determined that it may be in the public’s interest for the Tweet to remain available.” Users can then click through to view the tweet if they desire.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/jun/27/twitter-warning-labels-tweets-violate-site-rules
An elected politician should be able to say what they want and the voters judge them accordingly
This, of course, is a halfway house that satisfies no-one. The tweets are still there (which they wouldn't be if you or I tweeted them), but they're being somewhat hidden.
Twitter is, of course, free to have whatever Terms of Service they like. Their site, their rules. Perhaps the best way around this would be to have a machine learning algorithm that checked (without human intervension) if a tweet breached Terms of Service. And if it did, it told the Tweeter, your Tweet was not published for the following reason, please change it and resubmit.
It certainly shouldn't be solved by the government intervening.0 -
Daily Mail tomorrow: Boris insults the French
That’s got to add another 10% to his poll lead , lol0 -
Andy Burnham lost the Mayoral reselection vote in Manchester Central tonight. He barely won it in Gorton.
Easier wins in Wigan, Stalybridge & Hyde and Denton & Reddish.
If I made the right calculations, 9 CLPs is the threshold to force an open selection.
It may not bode well for Lucy Powell in Central though.0 -
As the French say, never mind whether it works in practice, does it work in theory!NickPalmer said:
Ah yes, the Keynes Perversion. I must introduce you to Socialist Worker friends of similar mind.HYUFD said:
It is the tax cuts that will grow the economy to raise the revenues to pay for the promisesdixiedean said:
So Boris is promising tax cuts for the wealthy, tax cuts for the struggling, no stamp duty, 20 000 new police officers, more nurses, teachers and doctors, more spending on everything under the sun.Cyclefree said:
Great: just what we need. Another house price surge followed by a crash.TGOHF said:
Do the Tories ever think that an economy can be something more than people buying and selling overpriced terraced houses to each other ?
Morons.
After Brexit, we'll all be employees of the State, and paying no tax.
Remind me who is the Marxist?
0 -
Say what you like about Boris but he has the ego and personality to go shoulder to shoulder with Macron which May unfortunately was unable to do.kjohnw said:Daily Mail tomorrow: Boris insults the French
That’s got to add another 10% to his poll lead , lol
With Merkel ill it seems and nearing the end of her tenure somebody needs to stand up to the French0 -
Price goes up to reflect the lower duty.., (although you can finance against house value not tax)blueblue said:
Anyone who wants to buy a house hates stamp duty. Nice populist move from Boris - more please!_Anazina_ said:
As true as that all is, the more surprising thing is how narrow and unimaginative a tax cut that is. If he really wants to make tax cuts (and I think it’s on balance unwise), he’d be better off chopping income tax. What happened to that plan?Cyclefree said:
Great: just what we need. Another house price surge followed by a crash.TGOHF said:
Do the Tories ever think that an economy can be something more than people buying and selling overpriced terraced houses to each other ?
Morons.0 -
I've got time for Powell and Burnham. Burnham not marxist enough for the cult ? Powell too Brexity ?AndreaParma_82 said:Andy Burnham lost the Mayoral reselection vote in Manchester Central tonight. He barely won it in Gorton.
Easier wins in Wigan, Stalybridge & Hyde and Denton & Reddish.
If I made the right calculations, 9 CLPs is the threshold to force an open selection.
It may not bode well for Lucy Powell in Central though.1 -
Stamp duty is dead money up front.Charles said:
Price goes up to reflect the lower duty.., (although you can finance against house value not tax)blueblue said:
Anyone who wants to buy a house hates stamp duty. Nice populist move from Boris - more please!_Anazina_ said:
As true as that all is, the more surprising thing is how narrow and unimaginative a tax cut that is. If he really wants to make tax cuts (and I think it’s on balance unwise), he’d be better off chopping income tax. What happened to that plan?Cyclefree said:
Great: just what we need. Another house price surge followed by a crash.TGOHF said:
Do the Tories ever think that an economy can be something more than people buying and selling overpriced terraced houses to each other ?
Morons.
Plus it penalises people who move more frequently, eg for work. Is moving for work or other reasons something we should seek to be punishing?0 -
Burnham won Wythenshawe & Sale East CLP comfortably tonight. Also Withington0
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I think Boris will prove a lot of naysayers wrong and actually deliver Brexit unlike useless MayHYUFD said:
Say what you like about Boris but he has the ego and personality to go shoulder to shoulder with Macron which May unfortunately was unable to do.kjohnw said:Daily Mail tomorrow: Boris insults the French
That’s got to add another 10% to his poll lead , lol
With Merkel ill it seems and nearing the end of her tenure somebody needs to stand up to the French0 -
Boris is rumoured to be considering making Conor Burns the second Catholic and first Ulster born Northern Ireland Secretary
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/northern-ireland-job-hotly-fought-over-with-belfastborn-mp-tipped-to-replace-karen-bradley-in-boris-johnson-cabinet-38247770.html
https://www.conservativehome.com/thecolumnists/2019/06/henry-hill-hunt-pulls-foreign-office-support-to-sturgeons-separatist-excursions.html
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Hunt is taking his upcoming thumping in the leadership race with good humour:
https://twitter.com/Pulpstar/status/11443730071100252160 -
Don’t misunderstand me: I think it’s a bad tax that’s been poorly implemented.Philip_Thompson said:
Stamp duty is dead money up front.Charles said:
Price goes up to reflect the lower duty.., (although you can finance against house value not tax)blueblue said:
Anyone who wants to buy a house hates stamp duty. Nice populist move from Boris - more please!_Anazina_ said:
As true as that all is, the more surprising thing is how narrow and unimaginative a tax cut that is. If he really wants to make tax cuts (and I think it’s on balance unwise), he’d be better off chopping income tax. What happened to that plan?Cyclefree said:
Great: just what we need. Another house price surge followed by a crash.TGOHF said:
Do the Tories ever think that an economy can be something more than people buying and selling overpriced terraced houses to each other ?
Morons.
Plus it penalises people who move more frequently, eg for work. Is moving for work or other reasons something we should seek to be punishing?
But (a) the Laffer curve refers to income taxes not transaction taxes and (b) prices will go up as stamp duty falls
My biggest issue is the impact on labour mobility0 -
May negotiated the Withdrawal Agreement but Boris will actually deliver Brexit yeskjohnw said:
I think Boris will prove a lot of naysayers wrong and actually deliver Brexit unlike useless MayHYUFD said:
Say what you like about Boris but he has the ego and personality to go shoulder to shoulder with Macron which May unfortunately was unable to do.kjohnw said:Daily Mail tomorrow: Boris insults the French
That’s got to add another 10% to his poll lead , lol
With Merkel ill it seems and nearing the end of her tenure somebody needs to stand up to the French0 -
Stamp duty has a depressive effect on house prices. Moving to reduce or eliminate it won't have the desired outcome of increasing home ownership.Charles said:
Don’t misunderstand me: I think it’s a bad tax that’s been poorly implemented.Philip_Thompson said:
Stamp duty is dead money up front.Charles said:
Price goes up to reflect the lower duty.., (although you can finance against house value not tax)blueblue said:
Anyone who wants to buy a house hates stamp duty. Nice populist move from Boris - more please!_Anazina_ said:
As true as that all is, the more surprising thing is how narrow and unimaginative a tax cut that is. If he really wants to make tax cuts (and I think it’s on balance unwise), he’d be better off chopping income tax. What happened to that plan?Cyclefree said:
Great: just what we need. Another house price surge followed by a crash.TGOHF said:
Do the Tories ever think that an economy can be something more than people buying and selling overpriced terraced houses to each other ?
Morons.
Plus it penalises people who move more frequently, eg for work. Is moving for work or other reasons something we should seek to be punishing?
But (a) the Laffer curve refers to income taxes not transaction taxes and (b) prices will go up as stamp duty falls
My biggest issue is the impact on labour mobility0 -
Does anyone expect a boost for the Tories in the polls when their new leader is finally chosen? I think they probably will get one, although it may be relatively small.0
-
Sir Jony Ive, the Briton who over two decades helped turn Apple into the world's most valuable company, is leaving to set up his own venture.0
-
Which is much better. Why exactly should anyone have to pay tens of thousands (now hundreds of thousands in many cases) for the Government to 'stamp' a transaction that is none of their damned business? A £100 flat rate should be quite sufficient.Charles said:
Price goes up to reflect the lower duty.., (although you can finance against house value not tax)blueblue said:
Anyone who wants to buy a house hates stamp duty. Nice populist move from Boris - more please!_Anazina_ said:
As true as that all is, the more surprising thing is how narrow and unimaginative a tax cut that is. If he really wants to make tax cuts (and I think it’s on balance unwise), he’d be better off chopping income tax. What happened to that plan?Cyclefree said:
Great: just what we need. Another house price surge followed by a crash.TGOHF said:
Do the Tories ever think that an economy can be something more than people buying and selling overpriced terraced houses to each other ?
Morons.0 -
MANSFIELD - Sandhurst
Mansfield Independent Forum 227
Lab 177
Con 71
UKIP 56
Ward was Lab in 2019, Ind in 2015, Lab in 20110 -
It's a tiny bit more complicated than that.Philip_Thompson said:
Lefties still haven't heard of the Laffer Curve. Probably never will.HYUFD said:
It is the tax cuts that will grow the economy to raise the revenues to pay for the promisesdixiedean said:
So Boris is promising tax cuts for the wealthy, tax cuts for the struggling, no stamp duty, 20 000 new police officers, more nurses, teachers and doctors, more spending on everything under the sun.Cyclefree said:
Great: just what we need. Another house price surge followed by a crash.TGOHF said:
Do the Tories ever think that an economy can be something more than people buying and selling overpriced terraced houses to each other ?
Morons.
After Brexit, we'll all be employees of the State, and paying no tax.
Remind me who is the Marxist?
If the UK government cuts taxes and increases spending, then the economy will grow. (Yay!) Simply aggregate demand will rise, and people have more money in their pocket, either because the government is paying them or because it is taxing them less.
But from a growth perspective, this is a one-off benefit. The next year, unless the tax take is slashed again, the compare is of the higher base of demand. (Which is one of the reasons why the US economy is decelerating right now.)
But the deficit is not a one off. Cutting taxes and increasing spending makes a hole that recurs year after year.
Furthermore, expansionary budgets tend to result in worse economic imbalances. If you give everyone more money to spend in one go, then as the productive capability of the economy has not changed, the bulk of the increased demand will go on imports.
1 -
It has a marginal benefit as you can borrow an increased house price but not the stamp dutyMaxPB said:
Stamp duty has a depressive effect on house prices. Moving to reduce or eliminate it won't have the desired outcome of increasing home ownership.Charles said:
Don’t misunderstand me: I think it’s a bad tax that’s been poorly implemented.Philip_Thompson said:
Stamp duty is dead money up front.Charles said:
Price goes up to reflect the lower duty.., (although you can finance against house value not tax)blueblue said:
Anyone who wants to buy a house hates stamp duty. Nice populist move from Boris - more please!_Anazina_ said:
As true as that all is, the more surprising thing is how narrow and unimaginative a tax cut that is. If he really wants to make tax cuts (and I think it’s on balance unwise), he’d be better off chopping income tax. What happened to that plan?Cyclefree said:
Great: just what we need. Another house price surge followed by a crash.TGOHF said:
Do the Tories ever think that an economy can be something more than people buying and selling overpriced terraced houses to each other ?
Morons.
Plus it penalises people who move more frequently, eg for work. Is moving for work or other reasons something we should seek to be punishing?
But (a) the Laffer curve refers to income taxes not transaction taxes and (b) prices will go up as stamp duty falls
My biggest issue is the impact on labour mobility
From a revenue perspective, they killed volume with the last rise so revenues tanked0 -
Snoop Dogg making the marijuana legalisation argument....
https://twitter.com/PatrickBenjam/status/1144205936971735041
In fairness I think Gazza has probably abused some of the other non marijuana drugs as well.0 -
A couple of criticisms of what you wrote.rcs1000 said:
It's a tiny bit more complicated than that.Philip_Thompson said:
Lefties still haven't heard of the Laffer Curve. Probably never will.HYUFD said:
It is the tax cuts that will grow the economy to raise the revenues to pay for the promisesdixiedean said:
So Boris is promising tax cuts for the wealthy, tax cuts for the struggling, no stamp duty, 20 000 new police officers, more nurses, teachers and doctors, more spending on everything under the sun.Cyclefree said:
Great: just what we need. Another house price surge followed by a crash.TGOHF said:
Do the Tories ever think that an economy can be something more than people buying and selling overpriced terraced houses to each other ?
Morons.
After Brexit, we'll all be employees of the State, and paying no tax.
Remind me who is the Marxist?
If the UK government cuts taxes and increases spending, then the economy will grow. (Yay!) Simply aggregate demand will rise, and people have more money in their pocket, either because the government is paying them or because it is taxing them less.
But from a growth perspective, this is a one-off benefit. The next year, unless the tax take is slashed again, the compare is of the higher base of demand. (Which is one of the reasons why the US economy is decelerating right now.)
But the deficit is not a one off. Cutting taxes and increasing spending makes a hole that recurs year after year.
Furthermore, expansionary budgets tend to result in worse economic imbalances. If you give everyone more money to spend in one go, then as the productive capability of the economy has not changed, the bulk of the increased demand will go on imports.
A bigger economy yields more tax year-on-year.
Tax cuts don't deliver more money all in one go.
0 -
-
Laffer Curve in action.Charles said:
It has a marginal benefit as you can borrow an increased house price but not the stamp dutyMaxPB said:
Stamp duty has a depressive effect on house prices. Moving to reduce or eliminate it won't have the desired outcome of increasing home ownership.Charles said:
Don’t misunderstand me: I think it’s a bad tax that’s been poorly implemented.Philip_Thompson said:
Stamp duty is dead money up front.Charles said:
Price goes up to reflect the lower duty.., (although you can finance against house value not tax)blueblue said:
Anyone who wants to buy a house hates stamp duty. Nice populist move from Boris - more please!_Anazina_ said:
As true as that all is, the more surprising thing is how narrow and unimaginative a tax cut that is. If he really wants to make tax cuts (and I think it’s on balance unwise), he’d be better off chopping income tax. What happened to that plan?Cyclefree said:
Great: just what we need. Another house price surge followed by a crash.TGOHF said:
Do the Tories ever think that an economy can be something more than people buying and selling overpriced terraced houses to each other ?
Morons.
Plus it penalises people who move more frequently, eg for work. Is moving for work or other reasons something we should seek to be punishing?
But (a) the Laffer curve refers to income taxes not transaction taxes and (b) prices will go up as stamp duty falls
My biggest issue is the impact on labour mobility
From a revenue perspective, they killed volume with the last rise so revenues tanked0 -
It also discourages people trading down, thus making the market less efficient.Philip_Thompson said:
Stamp duty is dead money up front.Charles said:
Price goes up to reflect the lower duty.., (although you can finance against house value not tax)blueblue said:
Anyone who wants to buy a house hates stamp duty. Nice populist move from Boris - more please!_Anazina_ said:
As true as that all is, the more surprising thing is how narrow and unimaginative a tax cut that is. If he really wants to make tax cuts (and I think it’s on balance unwise), he’d be better off chopping income tax. What happened to that plan?Cyclefree said:
Great: just what we need. Another house price surge followed by a crash.TGOHF said:
Do the Tories ever think that an economy can be something more than people buying and selling overpriced terraced houses to each other ?
Morons.
Plus it penalises people who move more frequently, eg for work. Is moving for work or other reasons something we should seek to be punishing?0 -
Independents seem to be doing well in the North midlands (Bolsover, Ashfield & Mansfield)AndreaParma_82 said:MANSFIELD - Sandhurst
Mansfield Independent Forum 227
Lab 177
Con 71
UKIP 56
Ward was Lab in 2019, Ind in 2015, Lab in 20110 -
-
-
-
Doesn't that mean lowering or eliminating it at lower prices and raising at the top end? The government did this and it has been fairly successful.rcs1000 said:
It also discourages people trading down, thus making the market less efficient.Philip_Thompson said:
Stamp duty is dead money up front.Charles said:
Price goes up to reflect the lower duty.., (although you can finance against house value not tax)blueblue said:
Anyone who wants to buy a house hates stamp duty. Nice populist move from Boris - more please!_Anazina_ said:
As true as that all is, the more surprising thing is how narrow and unimaginative a tax cut that is. If he really wants to make tax cuts (and I think it’s on balance unwise), he’d be better off chopping income tax. What happened to that plan?Cyclefree said:
Great: just what we need. Another house price surge followed by a crash.TGOHF said:
Do the Tories ever think that an economy can be something more than people buying and selling overpriced terraced houses to each other ?
Morons.
Plus it penalises people who move more frequently, eg for work. Is moving for work or other reasons something we should seek to be punishing?0 -
I paid £8k In stamp duty. I felt like I had my arm sawn off. After only a yes for so my wife is looking at other properties!MaxPB said:
Doesn't that mean lowering or eliminating it at lower prices and raising at the top end? The government did this and it has been fairly successful.rcs1000 said:
It also discourages people trading down, thus making the market less efficient.Philip_Thompson said:
Stamp duty is dead money up front.Charles said:
Price goes up to reflect the lower duty.., (although you can finance against house value not tax)blueblue said:
Anyone who wants to buy a house hates stamp duty. Nice populist move from Boris - more please!_Anazina_ said:
As true as that all is, the more surprising thing is how narrow and unimaginative a tax cut that is. If he really wants to make tax cuts (and I think it’s on balance unwise), he’d be better off chopping income tax. What happened to that plan?Cyclefree said:
Great: just what we need. Another house price surge followed by a crash.TGOHF said:
Do the Tories ever think that an economy can be something more than people buying and selling overpriced terraced houses to each other ?
Morons.
Plus it penalises people who move more frequently, eg for work. Is moving for work or other reasons something we should seek to be punishing?0 -
What you are, I think, saying is cutting taxes is not a panacea. Nor is increasing spending. And both together, which is the "Boris Plan" is a bit reckless.rcs1000 said:
It's a tiny bit more complicated than that.Philip_Thompson said:
Lefties still haven't heard of the Laffer Curve. Probably never will.HYUFD said:
It is the tax cuts that will grow the economy to raise the revenues to pay for the promisesdixiedean said:
So Boris is promising tax cuts for the wealthy, tax cuts for the struggling, no stamp duty, 20 000 new police officers, more nurses, teachers and doctors, more spending on everything under the sun.Cyclefree said:
Great: just what we need. Another house price surge followed by a crash.TGOHF said:
Do the Tories ever think that an economy can be something more than people buying and selling overpriced terraced houses to each other ?
Morons.
After Brexit, we'll all be employees of the State, and paying no tax.
Remind me who is the Marxist?
If the UK government cuts taxes and increases spending, then the economy will grow. (Yay!) Simply aggregate demand will rise, and people have more money in their pocket, either because the government is paying them or because it is taxing them less.
But from a growth perspective, this is a one-off benefit. The next year, unless the tax take is slashed again, the compare is of the higher base of demand. (Which is one of the reasons why the US economy is decelerating right now.)
But the deficit is not a one off. Cutting taxes and increasing spending makes a hole that recurs year after year.
Furthermore, expansionary budgets tend to result in worse economic imbalances. If you give everyone more money to spend in one go, then as the productive capability of the economy has not changed, the bulk of the increased demand will go on imports.0 -
Can you find any other jailbirds to stick up for your man? Quite appropriate to find a fraudster to endorse him.HYUFD said:0 -
Mmmm... a convicted fraudster backs Boris.HYUFD said:0 -
Yes, me. Unless they go for a GE quickly though, it will be moot. The fundamentals haven't changed.AndyJS said:Does anyone expect a boost for the Tories in the polls when their new leader is finally chosen? I think they probably will get one, although it may be relatively small.
0 -
0
-
HYUFD said:
As the French say, never mind whether it works in practice, does it work in theory!NickPalmer said:
Ah yes, the Keynes Perversion. I must introduce you to Socialist Worker friends of similar mind.
0 -
Most people want to have a home they can retire to. After all, the aim of a mortgage is that you will have paid it off in 25/30 years and by the time you're old you will own your own home.MaxPB said:
Doesn't that mean lowering or eliminating it at lower prices and raising at the top end? The government did this and it has been fairly successful.rcs1000 said:
It also discourages people trading down, thus making the market less efficient.Philip_Thompson said:
Stamp duty is dead money up front.Charles said:
Price goes up to reflect the lower duty.., (although you can finance against house value not tax)blueblue said:
Anyone who wants to buy a house hates stamp duty. Nice populist move from Boris - more please!_Anazina_ said:
As true as that all is, the more surprising thing is how narrow and unimaginative a tax cut that is. If he really wants to make tax cuts (and I think it’s on balance unwise), he’d be better off chopping income tax. What happened to that plan?Cyclefree said:
Great: just what we need. Another house price surge followed by a crash.TGOHF said:
Do the Tories ever think that an economy can be something more than people buying and selling overpriced terraced houses to each other ?
Morons.
Plus it penalises people who move more frequently, eg for work. Is moving for work or other reasons something we should seek to be punishing?
Stamp duty penalises those who move frequently for work and encourages people to stay where they are as long as they can. A small increase in tax revenues for a massive hit to the economy by making skilled workers far less mobile.
To me it's an insane tax, far more insane than inheritance tax (which, after all, is only levied after you're gone).0 -
StuartDickson said:
He’s never really been all that clear. Sometimes he is almost neutral, while at other times he comes over full-on Better Together. Never *publicly* supported it._Anazina_ said:
Does anyone know whether Corbo is pro, or anti, Scots independence?StuartDickson said:Scottish independence: Dugdale says Corbyn could allow indyref2
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-48790775
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/05/07/jeremy-corbyn-backed-scottish-independence-snps-mhairi-black/
He might be interested in Scottish affairs if they became independent. If it’s not a foreign policy issue he’s not really bothered.0 -
Wow all this money to spend with no deal .
I never realized trashing trade with your biggest export market could deliver so many goodies.
I’m still waiting to see which other country in the world has decided to take this course of action .
And we wait and we wait ........
0 -
Fight, fight!HYUFD said:
Not sure having convicted fraudster Conrad Black in your corner is the best thing.0 -
In a global marketplace things will correct if the fundamentals are sound, but it is a great act of self harm.nico67 said:Wow all this money to spend with no deal .
I never realized trashing trade with your biggest export market could deliver so many goodies.
I’m still waiting to see which other country in the world has decided to take this course of action .
And we wait and we wait ........0 -
Almost every other nation in the world has decided to control their own trade policy.nico67 said:Wow all this money to spend with no deal .
I never realized trashing trade with your biggest export market could deliver so many goodies.
I’m still waiting to see which other country in the world has decided to take this course of action .
And we wait and we wait ........0 -
Laffer Curve: neoliberal mumbo-jumbo; a curve with no scale and no definition... no one can say where it peaks.Philip_Thompson said:
Laffer Curve in action.Charles said:
It has a marginal benefit as you can borrow an increased house price but not the stamp dutyMaxPB said:
Stamp duty has a depressive effect on house prices. Moving to reduce or eliminate it won't have the desired outcome of increasing home ownership.Charles said:
Don’t misunderstand me: I think it’s a bad tax that’s been poorly implemented.Philip_Thompson said:
Stamp duty is dead money up front.Charles said:
Price goes up to reflect the lower duty.., (although you can finance against house value not tax)blueblue said:
Anyone who wants to buy a house hates stamp duty. Nice populist move from Boris - more please!_Anazina_ said:
As true as that all is, the more surprising thing is how narrow and unimaginative a tax cut that is. If he really wants to make tax cuts (and I think it’s on balance unwise), he’d be better off chopping income tax. What happened to that plan?Cyclefree said:
Great: just what we need. Another house price surge followed by a crash.TGOHF said:
Do the Tories ever think that an economy can be something more than people buying and selling overpriced terraced houses to each other ?
Morons.
Plus it penalises people who move more frequently, eg for work. Is moving for work or other reasons something we should seek to be punishing?
But (a) the Laffer curve refers to income taxes not transaction taxes and (b) prices will go up as stamp duty falls
My biggest issue is the impact on labour mobility
From a revenue perspective, they killed volume with the last rise so revenues tanked
The contention that tax take at a 100% tax rate is zero is not true since it's perfectly possible to envision a society where all the proceeds of labour and investment go to the state and every citizen's needs are fully met by the state (not a society I'd recommend but theoretically possible).0 -
Which is fair enough.kyf_100 said:
Most people want to have a home they can retire to. After all, the aim of a mortgage is that you will have paid it off in 25/30 years and by the time you're old you will own your own home.MaxPB said:
Doesn't that mean lowering or eliminating it at lower prices and raising at the top end? The government did this and it has been fairly successful.rcs1000 said:
It also discourages people trading down, thus making the market less efficient.Philip_Thompson said:
Stamp duty is dead money up front.Charles said:
Price goes up to reflect the lower duty.., (although you can finance against house value not tax)blueblue said:
Anyone who wants to buy a house hates stamp duty. Nice populist move from Boris - more please!_Anazina_ said:
As true as that all is, the more surprising thing is how narrow and unimaginative a tax cut that is. If he really wants to make tax cuts (and I think it’s on balance unwise), he’d be better off chopping income tax. What happened to that plan?Cyclefree said:
Great: just what we need. Another house price surge followed by a crash.TGOHF said:
Do the Tories ever think that an economy can be something more than people buying and selling overpriced terraced houses to each other ?
Morons.
Plus it penalises people who move more frequently, eg for work. Is moving for work or other reasons something we should seek to be punishing?
Stamp duty penalises those who move frequently for work and encourages people to stay where they are as long as they can. A small increase in tax revenues for a massive hit to the economy by making skilled workers far less mobile.
To me it's an insane tax, far more insane than inheritance tax (which, after all, is only levied after you're gone).
You then have to explain where the lost revenue is to be compensated for. Cut spending? Boris is promising a splurge. Higher other taxes? No, he's promising cuts. Increase the tax-paying base? No, they want to make immigration more difficult.
Therefore, I presume, the Tory Party is the "deficit denier" Party. A huge increase in the PSBR. What was the point of 9 years of austerity?0 -
Just because we don't have infallible perfect knowledge as to know where it peaks doesn't make it untrue.Benpointer said:
Laffer Curve: neoliberal mumbo-jumbo; a curve with no scale and no definition... no one can say where it peaks.Philip_Thompson said:
Laffer Curve in action.Charles said:
It has a marginal benefit as you can borrow an increased house price but not the stamp dutyMaxPB said:
Stamp duty has a depressive effect on house prices. Moving to reduce or eliminate it won't have the desired outcome of increasing home ownership.Charles said:
Don’t misunderstand me: I think it’s a bad tax that’s been poorly implemented.Philip_Thompson said:
Stamp duty is dead money up front.Charles said:
Price goes up to reflect the lower duty.., (although you can finance against house value not tax)blueblue said:
Anyone who wants to buy a house hates stamp duty. Nice populist move from Boris - more please!_Anazina_ said:
As true as that all is, the more surprising thing is how narrow and unimaginative a tax cut that is. If he really wants to make tax cuts (and I think it’s on balance unwise), he’d be better off chopping income tax. What happened to that plan?Cyclefree said:
Great: just what we need. Another house price surge followed by a crash.TGOHF said:
Do the Tories ever think that an economy can be something more than people buying and selling overpriced terraced houses to each other ?
Morons.
Plus it penalises people who move more frequently, eg for work. Is moving for work or other reasons something we should seek to be punishing?
But (a) the Laffer curve refers to income taxes not transaction taxes and (b) prices will go up as stamp duty falls
My biggest issue is the impact on labour mobility
From a revenue perspective, they killed volume with the last rise so revenues tanked
The contention that tax take at a 100% tax rate is zero is not true since it's perfectly possible to envision a society where all the proceeds of labour and investment go to the state and every citizen's needs are fully met by the state (not a society I'd recommend but theoretically possible).0 -
We won't be spending billions a year to the EU and in control of our own destiny we can grow our nation.dixiedean said:
Which is fair enough.kyf_100 said:
Most people want to have a home they can retire to. After all, the aim of a mortgage is that you will have paid it off in 25/30 years and by the time you're old you will own your own home.MaxPB said:
Doesn't that mean lowering or eliminating it at lower prices and raising at the top end? The government did this and it has been fairly successful.rcs1000 said:
It also discourages people trading down, thus making the market less efficient.Philip_Thompson said:
Stamp duty is dead money up front.Charles said:
Price goes up to reflect the lower duty.., (although you can finance against house value not tax)blueblue said:
Anyone who wants to buy a house hates stamp duty. Nice populist move from Boris - more please!_Anazina_ said:
As true as that all is, the more surprising thing is how narrow and unimaginative a tax cut that is. If he really wants to make tax cuts (and I think it’s on balance unwise), he’d be better off chopping income tax. What happened to that plan?Cyclefree said:
Great: just what we need. Another house price surge followed by a crash.TGOHF said:
Do the Tories ever think that an economy can be something more than people buying and selling overpriced terraced houses to each other ?
Morons.
Plus it penalises people who move more frequently, eg for work. Is moving for work or other reasons something we should seek to be punishing?
Stamp duty penalises those who move frequently for work and encourages people to stay where they are as long as they can. A small increase in tax revenues for a massive hit to the economy by making skilled workers far less mobile.
To me it's an insane tax, far more insane than inheritance tax (which, after all, is only levied after you're gone).
You then have to explain where the lost revenue is to be compensated for. Cut spending? Boris is promising a splurge. Higher other taxes? No, he's promising cuts. Increase the tax-paying base? No, they want to make immigration more difficult.
Therefore, I presume, the Tory Party is the "deficit denier" Party. A huge increase in the PSBR. What was the point of 9 years of austerity?0 -
Empirical evidence does though.Philip_Thompson said:
Just because we don't have infallible perfect knowledge as to know where it peaks doesn't make it untrue.Benpointer said:
Laffer Curve: neoliberal mumbo-jumbo; a curve with no scale and no definition... no one can say where it peaks.Philip_Thompson said:
Laffer Curve in action.Charles said:
It has a marginal benefit as you can borrow an increased house price but not the stamp dutyMaxPB said:
Stamp duty has a depressive effect on house prices. Moving to reduce or eliminate it won't have the desired outcome of increasing home ownership.Charles said:
Don’t misunderstand me: I think it’s a bad tax that’s been poorly implemented.Philip_Thompson said:
Stamp duty is dead money up front.Charles said:
Price goes up to reflect the lower duty.., (although you can finance against house value not tax)blueblue said:
Anyone who wants to buy a house hates stamp duty. Nice populist move from Boris - more please!_Anazina_ said:
As true as that all is, the more surprising thing is how narrow and unimaginative a tax cut that is. If he really wants to make tax cuts (and I think it’s on balance unwise), he’d be better off chopping income tax. What happened to that plan?Cyclefree said:
Great: just what we need. Another house price surge followed by a crash.TGOHF said:
Do the Tories ever think that an economy can be something more than people buying and selling overpriced terraced houses to each other ?
Morons.
Plus it penalises people who move more frequently, eg for work. Is moving for work or other reasons something we should seek to be punishing?
But (a) the Laffer curve refers to income taxes not transaction taxes and (b) prices will go up as stamp duty falls
My biggest issue is the impact on labour mobility
From a revenue perspective, they killed volume with the last rise so revenues tanked
The contention that tax take at a 100% tax rate is zero is not true since it's perfectly possible to envision a society where all the proceeds of labour and investment go to the state and every citizen's needs are fully met by the state (not a society I'd recommend but theoretically possible).0 -
The economic modellers are pretty certain they have a ballpark on that - iirc something like 48% for the UK upper rate. Not a lot of difference +- 5% around that though.Benpointer said:Laffer Curve: neoliberal mumbo-jumbo; a curve with no scale and no definition... no one can say where it peaks.
0 -
You mean by pulling out of an agreement with its biggest market . No country in history has done this.Philip_Thompson said:
Almost every other nation in the world has decided to control their own trade policy.nico67 said:Wow all this money to spend with no deal .
I never realized trashing trade with your biggest export market could deliver so many goodies.
I’m still waiting to see which other country in the world has decided to take this course of action .
And we wait and we wait ........0 -
I thought its existence wasn’t in question. Only the shape was?dixiedean said:
Empirical evidence does though.Philip_Thompson said:
Just because we don't have infallible perfect knowledge as to know where it peaks doesn't make it untrue.Benpointer said:
Laffer Curve: neoliberal mumbo-jumbo; a curve with no scale and no definition... no one can say where it peaks.Philip_Thompson said:
Laffer Curve in action.Charles said:
It has a marginal benefit as you can borrow an increased house price but not the stamp dutyMaxPB said:
Stamp duty has a depressive effect on house prices. Moving to reduce or eliminate it won't have the desired outcome of increasing home ownership.Charles said:
Don’t misunderstand me: I think it’s a bad tax that’s been poorly implemented.Philip_Thompson said:
Stamp duty is dead money up front.Charles said:
Price goes up to reflect the lower duty.., (although you can finance against house value not tax)blueblue said:
Anyone who wants to buy a house hates stamp duty. Nice populist move from Boris - more please!_Anazina_ said:
As true as that all is, the more surprising thing is how narrow and unimaginative a tax cut that is. If he really wants to make tax cuts (and I think it’s on balance unwise), he’d be better off chopping income tax. What happened to that plan?Cyclefree said:
Great: just what we need. Another house price surge followed by a crash.TGOHF said:
Do the Tories ever think that an economy can be something more than people buying and selling overpriced terraced houses to each other ?
Morons.
Plus it penalises people who move more frequently, eg for work. Is moving for work or other reasons something we should seek to be punishing?
But (a) the Laffer curve refers to income taxes not transaction taxes and (b) prices will go up as stamp duty falls
My biggest issue is the impact on labour mobility
From a revenue perspective, they killed volume with the last rise so revenues tanked
The contention that tax take at a 100% tax rate is zero is not true since it's perfectly possible to envision a society where all the proceeds of labour and investment go to the state and every citizen's needs are fully met by the state (not a society I'd recommend but theoretically possible).0 -
Independence of the Dominions?nico67 said:
You mean by pulling out of an agreement with its biggest market . No country in history has done this.Philip_Thompson said:
Almost every other nation in the world has decided to control their own trade policy.nico67 said:Wow all this money to spend with no deal .
I never realized trashing trade with your biggest export market could deliver so many goodies.
I’m still waiting to see which other country in the world has decided to take this course of action .
And we wait and we wait ........0 -
Indeed and empirical evidence demonstrates it is a real effect. As demonstrated by corporation tax take being higher now than it was a decade ago despite a lower percentage rate.dixiedean said:Empirical evidence does though.
And that's without thinking about the other tax takes that are higher too as a consequence.0 -
RobD said:dixiedean said:
Of course. One needs to keep the argument very simple when debating with those who believe cut taxes leads to automatically increased revenue under any and all conditions.Philip_Thompson said:
I thought its existence wasn’t in question. Only the shape was?Benpointer said:
Empirical evidence does though.Philip_Thompson said:
Just because we don't have infallible perfect knowledge as to know where it peaks doesn't make it untrue.Charles said:MaxPB said:
Stamp duty has a depressive effect on house prices. Moving to reduce or eliminate it won't have the desired outcome of increasing home ownership.Charles said:
Don’t misunderstand me: I think it’s a bad tax that’s been poorly implemented.Philip_Thompson said:
Stamp duty is dead money up front.Charles said:
Price goes up to reflect the lower duty.., (although you can finance against house value not tax)blueblue said:
Anyone who wants to buy a house hates stamp duty. Nice populist move from Boris - more please!_Anazina_ said:
As true as that all is, the more surprising thing is how narrow and unimaginative a tax cut that is. If he really wants to make tax cuts (and I think it’s on balance unwise), he’d be better off chopping income tax. What happened to that plan?Cyclefree said:
Great: just what we need. Another house price surge followed by a crash.TGOHF said:
Do the Tories ever think that an economy can be something more than people buying and selling overpriced terraced houses to each other ?
Morons.
Plus it penalises people who move more frequently, eg for work. Is moving for work or other reasons something we should seek to be punishing?
But (a) the Laffer curve refers to income taxes not transaction taxes and (b) prices will go up as stamp duty falls
My biggest issue is the impact on labour mobility
Laffer Curve: neoliberal mumbo-jumbo; a curve with no scale and no definition... no one can say where it peaks.
The contention that tax take at a 100% tax rate is zero is not true since it's perfectly possible to envision a society where all the proceeds of labour and investment go to the state and every citizen's needs are fully met by the state (not a society I'd recommend but theoretically possible).0 -
Virtually every nation in history that has gained independence has done precisely that.nico67 said:
You mean by pulling out of an agreement with its biggest market . No country in history has done this.Philip_Thompson said:
Almost every other nation in the world has decided to control their own trade policy.nico67 said:Wow all this money to spend with no deal .
I never realized trashing trade with your biggest export market could deliver so many goodies.
I’m still waiting to see which other country in the world has decided to take this course of action .
And we wait and we wait ........0 -
Thankfully I don't think anybody here said that and neither does the theory.dixiedean said:Of course. One needs to keep the argument very simple when debating with those who believe cut taxes leads to automatically increased revenue under any and all conditions.
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Explain Kansas State finances 2012- present.Philip_Thompson said:
Indeed and empirical evidence demonstrates it is a real effect. As demonstrated by corporation tax take being higher now than it was a decade ago despite a lower percentage rate.dixiedean said:Empirical evidence does though.
And that's without thinking about the other tax takes that are higher too as a consequence.
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No one said it was in the same place for each country.dixiedean said:
Explain Kansas State finances 2012- present.Philip_Thompson said:
Indeed and empirical evidence demonstrates it is a real effect. As demonstrated by corporation tax take being higher now than it was a decade ago despite a lower percentage rate.dixiedean said:Empirical evidence does though.
And that's without thinking about the other tax takes that are higher too as a consequence.
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A failed extreme experiment that included cutting tax rates to 0% for many with a mammoth loophole.dixiedean said:
Explain Kansas State finances 2012- present.Philip_Thompson said:
Indeed and empirical evidence demonstrates it is a real effect. As demonstrated by corporation tax take being higher now than it was a decade ago despite a lower percentage rate.dixiedean said:Empirical evidence does though.
And that's without thinking about the other tax takes that are higher too as a consequence.
Last I checked the Laffer Curve doesn't advise either a 0% tax rate or a 100% one.0 -
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Of course, you can be to the left of the peak or the right of the peak.RobD said:
Setting the tax rate at 0% like in Kansas will put you well to the left of the peak!0 -
But! But! But!Philip_Thompson said:
Fight, fight!HYUFD said:
Not sure having convicted fraudster Conrad Black in your corner is the best thing.
He was pardoned!
By Trump.......0 -
I agree. On the one hand it's difficult to believe the Tories would want to have an election this year, but at the same time it seems quite likely.dixiedean said:
Yes, me. Unless they go for a GE quickly though, it will be moot. The fundamentals haven't changed.AndyJS said:Does anyone expect a boost for the Tories in the polls when their new leader is finally chosen? I think they probably will get one, although it may be relatively small.
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Characteristically enough, the incompetent Lab/Lib Welsh Government has handed this spiv money
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/jun/27/seven-investors-apply-to-put-gavin-woodhouse-firms-into-administration
"I’m delighted that the Welsh Government has been able to support such innovative and high quality projects in north Wales through our funding support schemes," said the Minister has he handed the dosh over.
Hard to say.
Is the Lab/Lib Welsh Government more failing than Grayling? Or is it just anti-Welsh, actively seeking to pauperise Wales still further and destroy what little the Welsh have?-1 -
Biden is a mess.
Kamala Harris winning by keeping it kind-of snappy and not looking too mad.0 -
Bernie getting a good reception, on my quick flick through anyway... I put that down to young people being noisy and turning up though rather than anything too substantial.0
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NYT Fact Checking the Dem Debate:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/27/us/politics/factcheck-democratic-debate.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur
So far, mostly telling the truth.....0 -
Biden's trying to do this laundry list of little policies thing, which firstly doesn't help in this big chaotic thing where you need strong, memorable lines, and secondly he's clearly having a hard time remembering what the policies are.0
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That was a very powerful moment, felt that one. Very nicely done, wonder if it will be more of a hit to Biden than a boost to her though.CarlottaVance said:0 -
I like this Marianne Williamson person, not a lot of people can say "I'm going to harness love" and make it sound sinister0
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Kamala says her priority is what wakes you at 3am in the morning. Everyone's hearing that and thinking, "my cat???"0
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Biden is even fumbling his rehearsed closing statement.0
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I wonder if Biden will drop out of hist own accord, he doesn't feel like he's got it in him.0
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https://twitter.com/NewYorker/status/1144440390151483392TheJezziah said:
That was a very powerful moment, felt that one. Very nicely done, wonder if it will be more of a hit to Biden than a boost to her though.CarlottaVance said:0
This discussion has been closed.