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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » For the moment at current prices I’m laying Johnson

SystemSystem Posts: 12,061
edited June 2019 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » For the moment at current prices I’m laying Johnson

We are now at a unique stage in British political history when the members of a particular party will by postal ballot decide who the next prime minister shall be. The decisions that members will take are of a different magnitude from other party leadership contests.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,191
    First!
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    It is possible. I'd imagine that all things being equal, Boris will tighten at the end when the big players step in for the favourite (if he still is). At short odds, they won't want capital tied up for weeks but a near-certain return in a few hours is a more attractive kettle of fish.

    My own book is green on Boris and greener on Hunt. The sensible thing is to balance them up but frankly I'm too tired at the moment.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Brecon & Radnor recall petition to be counted at 10 o'clock
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-48706720
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    edited June 2019

    Brecon & Radnor recall petition to be counted at 10 o'clock
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-48706720

    So we'll probably get the result late morning.

    If there is a by-election then expect Hunt & Johnson to make sure they are seen to be campaigning there.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Cities of London & Westminster would be a fascinating by-election.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I’m behaving been very active with my book on this race, for now I’m going to be lazy.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I am behaving, but my iPad’s autocorrect is a bit weird sometimes.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Cities of London & Westminster would be a fascinating by-election.

    Mark Field, MP and all-in wrestler?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Cities of London & Westminster would be a fascinating by-election.

    Mark Field, MP and all-in wrestler?
    It’s not a seat the Conservatives would relish defending just now.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Cities of London & Westminster would be a fascinating by-election.

    Mark Field, MP and all-in wrestler?
    It’s not a seat the Conservatives would relish defending just now.
    If rumours are correct that Boris wants a snap election they will be fighting that constituency anyway. If wrong, then Boris needs to get on the phone to the constituencies and persuade them to drop deselection proceedings against Grieve and Lee, and anyone else in the headbangers' cross-hairs. Otherwise it will be Jeremy Corbyn who gets to choose election day.
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,463
    Field should be able to weather the issue if he steps down and eats humble pie.....not a good image following his attempts to promote the FCO's women, peace and security agenda...as previous said, not a byelection Hunt/Johnson would want to fight.....
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,562
    Good morning, everyone.

    The French Grand Prix weekend starts today. Notwithstanding any bets I make, I hope Vettel wins on-track.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    I'm thinking of hiring Mark Field to escort Mrs JackW when she embarks on some retail therapy .... and instruct him to frogmarch the good lady to M&S and away from Bond Street ....

    Still, I don't fancy his chances against the redoubtable Mrs JackW .... or mine .... :smiley:
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,813
    Mark Field is not really my cup of tea, but my sympathies are with him, rather than the tosser he ejected.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Field should be able to weather the issue if he steps down and eats humble pie.....not a good image following his attempts to promote the FCO's women, peace and security agenda...as previous said, not a byelection Hunt/Johnson would want to fight.....

    I think the Twateratti and allies may find Field enjoys more support than they think.

    If you disrupt an official function and attempt to confront a government minister, causing a breach of the peace, you may find yourself at the thick end of a robust response. I'd have carried out a citizens arrest and accordingly used reasonable force to remove the threat and in short order transfer the potential attacker from my lawful custody to the first available constable.

    Let us also reflect that if this woman was a rogue protester and the Chancellor had been seriously injured or killed we would all be reflecting on the shocking security shortcomings or why someone close to Hammond hadn't intervened.

    Some in government should have Field's back, it could have been the Chancellor's back with a knife in it, lord knows we've seen plenty of political stabbing this week.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,678
    @justin124

    We've had our run ins over the years, but I was very shocked to read about your experience the other night. I hope you're not too shaken and recovering.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,489
    How did the protestor get in ?
    Is Mansion House not ring of steeled as say the Tory conference is ?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,678
    edited June 2019
    JackW said:

    I'd have carried out a citizens arrest and accordingly used reasonable force to remove the threat and in short order transfer the potential attacker from my lawful custody to the first available constable.

    I think however that 'using reasonable force' does not include grabbing someone by the neck, which is a very stupid and risky (in all senses of that word) thing to do. It's doubly so given he was not security and had no actual standing in the case. I don't think he'll be charged, because it seems unlikely he would be convicted on this evidence, but I reckon he'll be given a very strong telling off.

    At the same time, Greenpeace are a bunch of fat, pompous, hypocritical and often violent toadies who are absolutely unfit to lecture anyone else on violence or over-reaction, so they are unlikely to get much sympathy. Meanwhile Aaron Bastani, who under his real name Aaron Peters has a criminal record for violence and public disorder, is worse.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,284
    Sean_F said:

    Mark Field is not really my cup of tea, but my sympathies are with him, rather than the tosser he ejected.

    I don't see why we have to choose. Surely it's possible to be unimpressed with the behaviour of both.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Mark Field is not really my cup of tea, but my sympathies are with him, rather than the tosser he ejected.

    I don't see why we have to choose. Surely it's possible to be unimpressed with the behaviour of both.
    There's a lot of vacuous upset in the political comment from other parties, She deserved to be slung out. Why was there no security anyway.?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,562
    Why didn't security intercept the protester?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,678
    The really dumb thing is of course that this is exactly what these fascist nutters, oops, Greenpeace activists wanted to happen. If they'd all just pointed at her and laughed because she was wearing clothes made in a Vietnamese sweatshop, the 'protestors' would have looked like the idiots they are and if any had hauled off and thumped somebody then they could have safely locked away.

    Very stupid of Field. Perhaps a sign that he burns a short fuse? But if so he really shouldn't be a foreign office minister.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Scott_P said:
    I expect the ministerial code is filled with guidance on fisticuffs, ever since Wellington fought a duel as Prime Minister.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,813
    JackW said:

    Field should be able to weather the issue if he steps down and eats humble pie.....not a good image following his attempts to promote the FCO's women, peace and security agenda...as previous said, not a byelection Hunt/Johnson would want to fight.....

    I think the Twateratti and allies may find Field enjoys more support than they think.

    If you disrupt an official function and attempt to confront a government minister, causing a breach of the peace, you may find yourself at the thick end of a robust response. I'd have carried out a citizens arrest and accordingly used reasonable force to remove the threat and in short order transfer the potential attacker from my lawful custody to the first available constable.

    Let us also reflect that if this woman was a rogue protester and the Chancellor had been seriously injured or killed we would all be reflecting on the shocking security shortcomings or why someone close to Hammond hadn't intervened.

    Some in government should have Field's back, it could have been the Chancellor's back with a knife in it, lord knows we've seen plenty of political stabbing this week.
    It seems similar to John Prescott in the 2001 election.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,678

    Scott_P said:
    I expect the ministerial code is filled with guidance on fisticuffs, ever since Wellington fought a duel as Prime Minister.
    That was with pistols.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,678
    Sean_F said:

    JackW said:

    Field should be able to weather the issue if he steps down and eats humble pie.....not a good image following his attempts to promote the FCO's women, peace and security agenda...as previous said, not a byelection Hunt/Johnson would want to fight.....

    I think the Twateratti and allies may find Field enjoys more support than they think.

    If you disrupt an official function and attempt to confront a government minister, causing a breach of the peace, you may find yourself at the thick end of a robust response. I'd have carried out a citizens arrest and accordingly used reasonable force to remove the threat and in short order transfer the potential attacker from my lawful custody to the first available constable.

    Let us also reflect that if this woman was a rogue protester and the Chancellor had been seriously injured or killed we would all be reflecting on the shocking security shortcomings or why someone close to Hammond hadn't intervened.

    Some in government should have Field's back, it could have been the Chancellor's back with a knife in it, lord knows we've seen plenty of political stabbing this week.
    It seems similar to John Prescott in the 2001 election.
    In fairness, although in true New Labour fashion Blair said it didn't matter because the protestor wasn't a Labour voter (in effect) (1) Prescott was actually attacked and (2) he didn't try to grab the muppet with the egg by the neck.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,489
    Sean_F said:

    JackW said:

    Field should be able to weather the issue if he steps down and eats humble pie.....not a good image following his attempts to promote the FCO's women, peace and security agenda...as previous said, not a byelection Hunt/Johnson would want to fight.....

    I think the Twateratti and allies may find Field enjoys more support than they think.

    If you disrupt an official function and attempt to confront a government minister, causing a breach of the peace, you may find yourself at the thick end of a robust response. I'd have carried out a citizens arrest and accordingly used reasonable force to remove the threat and in short order transfer the potential attacker from my lawful custody to the first available constable.

    Let us also reflect that if this woman was a rogue protester and the Chancellor had been seriously injured or killed we would all be reflecting on the shocking security shortcomings or why someone close to Hammond hadn't intervened.

    Some in government should have Field's back, it could have been the Chancellor's back with a knife in it, lord knows we've seen plenty of political stabbing this week.
    It seems similar to John Prescott in the 2001 election.
    That was a great straight left.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,389
    The protestor should have been thrown out, but the level of force by Field was dangerous and inappropriate.

    It’s also terrible optics for an MP to be manhandling a member of the public, whom they are theoretically there to serve.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,671
    Sean_F said:

    JackW said:

    Field should be able to weather the issue if he steps down and eats humble pie.....not a good image following his attempts to promote the FCO's women, peace and security agenda...as previous said, not a byelection Hunt/Johnson would want to fight.....

    I think the Twateratti and allies may find Field enjoys more support than they think.

    If you disrupt an official function and attempt to confront a government minister, causing a breach of the peace, you may find yourself at the thick end of a robust response. I'd have carried out a citizens arrest and accordingly used reasonable force to remove the threat and in short order transfer the potential attacker from my lawful custody to the first available constable.

    Let us also reflect that if this woman was a rogue protester and the Chancellor had been seriously injured or killed we would all be reflecting on the shocking security shortcomings or why someone close to Hammond hadn't intervened.

    Some in government should have Field's back, it could have been the Chancellor's back with a knife in it, lord knows we've seen plenty of political stabbing this week.
    It seems similar to John Prescott in the 2001 election.
    Except that Prescott was assaulted by a man and Field was assaulting a woman
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,678

    Sean_F said:

    JackW said:

    Field should be able to weather the issue if he steps down and eats humble pie.....not a good image following his attempts to promote the FCO's women, peace and security agenda...as previous said, not a byelection Hunt/Johnson would want to fight.....

    I think the Twateratti and allies may find Field enjoys more support than they think.

    If you disrupt an official function and attempt to confront a government minister, causing a breach of the peace, you may find yourself at the thick end of a robust response. I'd have carried out a citizens arrest and accordingly used reasonable force to remove the threat and in short order transfer the potential attacker from my lawful custody to the first available constable.

    Let us also reflect that if this woman was a rogue protester and the Chancellor had been seriously injured or killed we would all be reflecting on the shocking security shortcomings or why someone close to Hammond hadn't intervened.

    Some in government should have Field's back, it could have been the Chancellor's back with a knife in it, lord knows we've seen plenty of political stabbing this week.
    It seems similar to John Prescott in the 2001 election.
    Except that Prescott was assaulted by a man and Field was assaulting a woman
    I'm not sure gender is a great addition to the argument. Are we saying if Field had grabbed a man by the neck, that would be OK?

    The key point is he wasn't under attack, although he may have thought he was (I'm sure he'll claim that) and his reaction was dangerous.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    President Trump authorised but then stopped an attack on Iran.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48714414

    This is interesting as it is consistent with the view that Trump is far more cautious than is made out, and he fears being bounced into foreign wars by the neocons around John Bolton. Much the same is true in Venezuela.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    It looks awful. The initial stop was clumsy enough but grabbing her round the neck? That’s indefensible.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,678
    edited June 2019

    President Trump authorised but then stopped an attack on Iran.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48714414

    This is interesting as it is consistent with the view that Trump is far more cautious than is made out, and he fears being bounced into foreign wars by the neocons around John Bolton. Much the same is true in Venezuela.

    Trump is a populist. Wars that last any length of time and cause massive casualties are unpopular, and it's hard to see a quick, clean victory in Venezuela or Iran should the US take leave of its last senses and attack them.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    It looks awful. The initial stop was clumsy enough but grabbing her round the neck? That’s indefensible.

    Not its not.. Have you ever dealt with a difficult woman trying to stop being held.. You should watch Police Interceptors,.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,238
    Even if Field had been caught illegally giving Government money to orphans, the Conservatives still need a London by-election like a hole in the head right now. For that reason I suspect they’ll bluff it out.

    Things Theresa May failed to achieve, #793: shedding the “nasty party” label.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    It looks awful. The initial stop was clumsy enough but grabbing her round the neck? That’s indefensible.

    Not its not.. Have you ever dealt with a difficult woman trying to stop being held.. You should watch Police Interceptors,.
    It’s not even safe for the restrainer if he fears attack. Her arms are entirely free.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    ydoethur said:

    President Trump authorised but then stopped an attack on Iran.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48714414

    This is interesting as it is consistent with the view that Trump is far more cautious than is made out, and he fears being bounced into foreign wars by the neocons around John Bolton. Much the same is true in Venezuela.

    Trump is a populist. Wars that last any length of time and cause massive casualties are unpopular, and it's hard to see a quick, clean victory in Venezuela or Iran should the US take leave of its last senses and attack them.
    There is a train of thought developing in America that Trump is not even a very good populist because he is not taking care of his voters, just the rich. It is worth bearing this in mind when betting on the US election next year.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704

    Field should be able to weather the issue if he steps down and eats humble pie.....not a good image following his attempts to promote the FCO's women, peace and security agenda...as previous said, not a byelection Hunt/Johnson would want to fight.....

    Surely it has nothing to do with womens issues or equalities, unless he would have acted differently with a man.

    I can understand the neck grab. The chest would open up a range of more serious accusations and an arm isn't very effective.

    My initial reaction on seeing it on the news was he is brave, in the context of expect adverse publicity, not knowing who he was at that time.

    Unless you are giving protesters carte blanche to disrupt any and every event, his actions should be acceptable.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,844
    Sean_F said:

    JackW said:

    Field should be able to weather the issue if he steps down and eats humble pie.....not a good image following his attempts to promote the FCO's women, peace and security agenda...as previous said, not a byelection Hunt/Johnson would want to fight.....

    I think the Twateratti and allies may find Field enjoys more support than they think.

    If you disrupt an official function and attempt to confront a government minister, causing a breach of the peace, you may find yourself at the thick end of a robust response. I'd have carried out a citizens arrest and accordingly used reasonable force to remove the threat and in short order transfer the potential attacker from my lawful custody to the first available constable.

    Let us also reflect that if this woman was a rogue protester and the Chancellor had been seriously injured or killed we would all be reflecting on the shocking security shortcomings or why someone close to Hammond hadn't intervened.

    Some in government should have Field's back, it could have been the Chancellor's back with a knife in it, lord knows we've seen plenty of political stabbing this week.
    It seems similar to John Prescott in the 2001 election.
    Err, no.

    John Prescott was assaulted and punched back. This protester may have been disruptive, but did not assault anyone. It doesn't look like reasonable force to me.

    Field was not an ordinary diner. As an MP, he should be used to protesters and hecklers. Indeed at the moment there is a perpetual presence of Brexit related pickets outside parliament, so a daily event.

    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1141822257007910912?s=19
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,605

    Sean_F said:

    JackW said:

    Field should be able to weather the issue if he steps down and eats humble pie.....not a good image following his attempts to promote the FCO's women, peace and security agenda...as previous said, not a byelection Hunt/Johnson would want to fight.....

    I think the Twateratti and allies may find Field enjoys more support than they think.

    If you disrupt an official function and attempt to confront a government minister, causing a breach of the peace, you may find yourself at the thick end of a robust response. I'd have carried out a citizens arrest and accordingly used reasonable force to remove the threat and in short order transfer the potential attacker from my lawful custody to the first available constable.

    Let us also reflect that if this woman was a rogue protester and the Chancellor had been seriously injured or killed we would all be reflecting on the shocking security shortcomings or why someone close to Hammond hadn't intervened.

    Some in government should have Field's back, it could have been the Chancellor's back with a knife in it, lord knows we've seen plenty of political stabbing this week.
    It seems similar to John Prescott in the 2001 election.
    Except that Prescott was assaulted by a man and Field was assaulting a woman
    Yeah but apart from that its identical!!
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,034

    It looks awful. The initial stop was clumsy enough but grabbing her round the neck? That’s indefensible.

    Nah, I’d give Field a medal, who knows what she could have been planning to do.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,678

    ydoethur said:

    President Trump authorised but then stopped an attack on Iran.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48714414

    This is interesting as it is consistent with the view that Trump is far more cautious than is made out, and he fears being bounced into foreign wars by the neocons around John Bolton. Much the same is true in Venezuela.

    Trump is a populist. Wars that last any length of time and cause massive casualties are unpopular, and it's hard to see a quick, clean victory in Venezuela or Iran should the US take leave of its last senses and attack them.
    There is a train of thought developing in America that Trump is not even a very good populist because he is not taking care of his voters, just the rich. It is worth bearing this in mind when betting on the US election next year.
    That's what most populists do. Look at Chavez.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    It looks awful. The initial stop was clumsy enough but grabbing her round the neck? That’s indefensible.

    Not its not.. Have you ever dealt with a difficult woman trying to stop being held.. You should watch Police Interceptors,.
    It’s not even safe for the restrainer if he fears attack. Her arms are entirely free.
    Yup The old bill cuff em, they don't mess about.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,156
    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Mark Field is not really my cup of tea, but my sympathies are with him, rather than the tosser he ejected.

    I don't see why we have to choose. Surely it's possible to be unimpressed with the behaviour of both.
    Agreed.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,678

    Sean_F said:

    JackW said:

    Field should be able to weather the issue if he steps down and eats humble pie.....not a good image following his attempts to promote the FCO's women, peace and security agenda...as previous said, not a byelection Hunt/Johnson would want to fight.....

    I think the Twateratti and allies may find Field enjoys more support than they think.

    If you disrupt an official function and attempt to confront a government minister, causing a breach of the peace, you may find yourself at the thick end of a robust response. I'd have carried out a citizens arrest and accordingly used reasonable force to remove the threat and in short order transfer the potential attacker from my lawful custody to the first available constable.

    Let us also reflect that if this woman was a rogue protester and the Chancellor had been seriously injured or killed we would all be reflecting on the shocking security shortcomings or why someone close to Hammond hadn't intervened.

    Some in government should have Field's back, it could have been the Chancellor's back with a knife in it, lord knows we've seen plenty of political stabbing this week.
    It seems similar to John Prescott in the 2001 election.
    Except that Prescott was assaulted by a man and Field was assaulting a woman
    Yeah but apart from that its identical!!
    Morning BJO. Hope you had a good night and are feeling more comfortable.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,034
    Foxy said:

    Sean_F said:

    JackW said:

    Field should be able to weather the issue if he steps down and eats humble pie.....not a good image following his attempts to promote the FCO's women, peace and security agenda...as previous said, not a byelection Hunt/Johnson would want to fight.....

    I think the Twateratti and allies may find Field enjoys more support than they think.

    If you disrupt an official function and attempt to confront a government minister, causing a breach of the peace, you may find yourself at the thick end of a robust response. I'd have carried out a citizens arrest and accordingly used reasonable force to remove the threat and in short order transfer the potential attacker from my lawful custody to the first available constable.

    Let us also reflect that if this woman was a rogue protester and the Chancellor had been seriously injured or killed we would all be reflecting on the shocking security shortcomings or why someone close to Hammond hadn't intervened.

    Some in government should have Field's back, it could have been the Chancellor's back with a knife in it, lord knows we've seen plenty of political stabbing this week.
    It seems similar to John Prescott in the 2001 election.
    Err, no.

    John Prescott was assaulted and punched back. This protester may have been disruptive, but did not assault anyone. It doesn't look like reasonable force to me.

    Field was not an ordinary diner. As an MP, he should be used to protesters and hecklers. Indeed at the moment there is a perpetual presence of Brexit related pickets outside parliament, so a daily event.

    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1141822257007910912?s=19
    But they are demonstrating legally, she wasn’t and post-Jo Cox I think such breaches of security should be taken very seriously.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,284

    ydoethur said:

    President Trump authorised but then stopped an attack on Iran.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48714414

    This is interesting as it is consistent with the view that Trump is far more cautious than is made out, and he fears being bounced into foreign wars by the neocons around John Bolton. Much the same is true in Venezuela.

    Trump is a populist. Wars that last any length of time and cause massive casualties are unpopular, and it's hard to see a quick, clean victory in Venezuela or Iran should the US take leave of its last senses and attack them.
    There is a train of thought developing in America that Trump is not even a very good populist because he is not taking care of his voters, just the rich. It is worth bearing this in mind when betting on the US election next year.
    There's a fundamental contradiction with Trump's policies.

    He wants to bring manufacturing back to America by overthrowing the existing trading system. But destabilising the global system causes a rush to safety (i.e. a stronger dollar), and results in his goal being harder to achieve.

    From a straight efficacy perspective, he'd have been much better off flattering the Chinese into floating the Reminbi - "standing alongside the dollar as the two pillars of trade" or somesuch.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,284

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Mark Field is not really my cup of tea, but my sympathies are with him, rather than the tosser he ejected.

    I don't see why we have to choose. Surely it's possible to be unimpressed with the behaviour of both.
    Agreed.
    Indeed, this rush to "oh, you have to choose a side" is frankly sick.

    Should the protestor have been there? No. And she should have been escorted from the premises by security. (And possibly charged, if she broke a crime.)

    And should Mr Field have grabbed her by the neck, bashed her against the wall, and pushed her out the room? Nope, that neither. If a police officer did that with a peaceful protestor (especially one who hadn't even been ask to "move along" yet), I hope we'd say that excess force was used.

    There's no need to take sides here. They both behaved poorly, and requiring that there is some "ranking" is wank.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Mr Meeks

    May I ask a question pls

    I have been researching MPAA, Does the 4000 limit refer to individual contributions, or ERS and EES contributions combined??
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,844
    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    Sean_F said:

    JackW said:

    Field should be able to weather the issue if he steps down and eats humble pie.....not a good image following his attempts to promote the FCO's women, peace and security agenda...as previous said, not a byelection Hunt/Johnson would want to fight.....

    I think the Twateratti and allies may find Field enjoys more support than they think.

    If you disrupt an official function and attempt to confront a government minister, causing a breach of the peace, you may find yourself at the thick end of a robust response. I'd have carried out a citizens arrest and accordingly used reasonable force to remove the threat and in short order transfer the potential attacker from my lawful custody to the first available constable.

    Let us also reflect that if this woman was a rogue protester and the Chancellor had been seriously injured or killed we would all be reflecting on the shocking security shortcomings or why someone close to Hammond hadn't intervened.

    Some in government should have Field's back, it could have been the Chancellor's back with a knife in it, lord knows we've seen plenty of political stabbing this week.
    It seems similar to John Prescott in the 2001 election.
    Err, no.

    John Prescott was assaulted and punched back. This protester may have been disruptive, but did not assault anyone. It doesn't look like reasonable force to me.

    Field was not an ordinary diner. As an MP, he should be used to protesters and hecklers. Indeed at the moment there is a perpetual presence of Brexit related pickets outside parliament, so a daily event.

    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1141822257007910912?s=19
    But they are demonstrating legally, she wasn’t and post-Jo Cox I think such breaches of security should be taken very seriously.
    Trespass is a civil, not criminal offence, unless performing acts of criminal damage or theft, but in any case doesn't excuse assault.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,284
    tlg86 said:

    It looks awful. The initial stop was clumsy enough but grabbing her round the neck? That’s indefensible.

    Nah, I’d give Field a medal, who knows what she could have been planning to do.
    Bore everyone with a speech about the dangers of carbon emissions?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,813
    Pulpstar said:

    Sean_F said:

    JackW said:

    Field should be able to weather the issue if he steps down and eats humble pie.....not a good image following his attempts to promote the FCO's women, peace and security agenda...as previous said, not a byelection Hunt/Johnson would want to fight.....

    I think the Twateratti and allies may find Field enjoys more support than they think.

    If you disrupt an official function and attempt to confront a government minister, causing a breach of the peace, you may find yourself at the thick end of a robust response. I'd have carried out a citizens arrest and accordingly used reasonable force to remove the threat and in short order transfer the potential attacker from my lawful custody to the first available constable.

    Let us also reflect that if this woman was a rogue protester and the Chancellor had been seriously injured or killed we would all be reflecting on the shocking security shortcomings or why someone close to Hammond hadn't intervened.

    Some in government should have Field's back, it could have been the Chancellor's back with a knife in it, lord knows we've seen plenty of political stabbing this week.
    It seems similar to John Prescott in the 2001 election.
    That was a great straight left.
    Very impressive.

    I suppose that pelting the protestors with food would have been a more measured response.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Mark Field is not really my cup of tea, but my sympathies are with him, rather than the tosser he ejected.

    I don't see why we have to choose. Surely it's possible to be unimpressed with the behaviour of both.
    Agreed.
    Indeed, this rush to "oh, you have to choose a side" is frankly sick.

    Should the protestor have been there? No. And she should have been escorted from the premises by security. (And possibly charged, if she broke a crime.)

    And should Mr Field have grabbed her by the neck, bashed her against the wall, and pushed her out the room? Nope, that neither. If a police officer did that with a peaceful protestor (especially one who hadn't even been ask to "move along" yet), I hope we'd say that excess force was used.

    There's no need to take sides here. They both behaved poorly, and requiring that there is some "ranking" is wank.
    How do we know she hadn't been asked to move along on her way in?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    edited June 2019

    Mr Meeks

    May I ask a question pls

    I have been researching MPAA, Does the 4000 limit refer to individual contributions, or ERS and EES contributions combined??
    Rather than bore everyone else, drop me an email at firstname.lastname at gmail dot com with your detailed question and I’ll answer there.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,258
    Both Tory and Labour remain coalescing around the LDs. It's why some of the most spectacular results could come in London at the next GE.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,678
    Scott_P said:
    On the contrary, sounds like we now know!

    Have a good morning.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,844
    Sean_F said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sean_F said:

    JackW said:

    Field should be able to weather the issue if he steps down and eats humble pie.....not a good image following his attempts to promote the FCO's women, peace and security agenda...as previous said, not a byelection Hunt/Johnson would want to fight.....

    I think the Twateratti and allies may find Field enjoys more support than they think.

    If you disrupt an official function and attempt to confront a government minister, causing a breach of the peace, you may find yourself at the thick end of a robust response. I'd have carried out a citizens arrest and accordingly used reasonable force to remove the threat and in short order transfer the potential attacker from my lawful custody to the first available constable.

    Let us also reflect that if this woman was a rogue protester and the Chancellor had been seriously injured or killed we would all be reflecting on the shocking security shortcomings or why someone close to Hammond hadn't intervened.

    Some in government should have Field's back, it could have been the Chancellor's back with a knife in it, lord knows we've seen plenty of political stabbing this week.
    It seems similar to John Prescott in the 2001 election.
    That was a great straight left.
    Very impressive.

    I suppose that pelting the protestors with food would have been a more measured response.
    It is noticeable that no one else felt threatened enough to stop dining, let alone physically intervene.

    Noticeable too that no one tried to assist Field or moderate his use of force.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,258
    Scott_P said:
    Otherwise known as the Arsene Wenger line.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,078
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    President Trump authorised but then stopped an attack on Iran.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48714414

    This is interesting as it is consistent with the view that Trump is far more cautious than is made out, and he fears being bounced into foreign wars by the neocons around John Bolton. Much the same is true in Venezuela.

    Trump is a populist. Wars that last any length of time and cause massive casualties are unpopular, and it's hard to see a quick, clean victory in Venezuela or Iran should the US take leave of its last senses and attack them.
    There is a train of thought developing in America that Trump is not even a very good populist because he is not taking care of his voters, just the rich. It is worth bearing this in mind when betting on the US election next year.
    There's a fundamental contradiction with Trump's policies.

    He wants to bring manufacturing back to America by overthrowing the existing trading system. But destabilising the global system causes a rush to safety (i.e. a stronger dollar), and results in his goal being harder to achieve.

    From a straight efficacy perspective, he'd have been much better off flattering the Chinese into floating the Reminbi - "standing alongside the dollar as the two pillars of trade" or somesuch.
    There are often 'fundamental contradictions' in populist's policies.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,637
    edited June 2019

    It looks awful. The initial stop was clumsy enough but grabbing her round the neck? That’s indefensible.

    It doesn’t look good but I don’t think it is that bad. He was holding her by the back of the neck and the top of one arm. There aren’t any better or more polite places he could have got hold of her to march her out of the room. Looking at the video he did jump up suddenly and may have thought she was armed with a milkshake, or worse. More level headed judgement might have been to block the passage and wait a few seconds for security to come over. The footage does suggest he has a short temper. But I don’t see a by election here.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Scott_P said:
    That video has been viewed over a million times already. You’d have thought the spokesman on the radio would have accounted for at least one of them.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,034
    IanB2 said:

    It looks awful. The initial stop was clumsy enough but grabbing her round the neck? That’s indefensible.

    It doesn’t look good but I don’t think it is that bad. He was holding her by the back of the neck and the top of one arm. There aren’t any better or more polite places he could have got hold of her to march her out of the room. Looking at the video he did jump up suddenly and may have thought she was armed with a milkshake, or worse. More level headed judgement might have been to block the passage and wait a few seconds for security to come over. But I don’t see a by election here.
    The biggest question as @Pulpstar says is WTF were security doing?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,197
    JackW said:

    Field should be able to weather the issue if he steps down and eats humble pie.....not a good image following his attempts to promote the FCO's women, peace and security agenda...as previous said, not a byelection Hunt/Johnson would want to fight.....

    I think the Twateratti and allies may find Field enjoys more support than they think.

    If you disrupt an official function and attempt to confront a government minister, causing a breach of the peace, you may find yourself at the thick end of a robust response. I'd have carried out a citizens arrest and accordingly used reasonable force to remove the threat and in short order transfer the potential attacker from my lawful custody to the first available constable.

    Let us also reflect that if this woman was a rogue protester and the Chancellor had been seriously injured or killed we would all be reflecting on the shocking security shortcomings or why someone close to Hammond hadn't intervened.

    Some in government should have Field's back, it could have been the Chancellor's back with a knife in it, lord knows we've seen plenty of political stabbing this week.
    What is the crown court offence offence you think she was carrying out?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,637
    edited June 2019

    That is a stunning result. On paper it was a tight Con/Lab marginal. We can see from the +24% that the LibDems have come from nowhere to win the ward. They made a bit of effort, with Ed Davey’s seat next door, but this wasn’t a “throw in every volunteer across London” by-election.

    It underlines the problem Labour is in, in London and the SE
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Meanwhile the scenes from Hong Kong are truly frightening with no sign of resolution.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,197
    edited June 2019

    ydoethur said:

    President Trump authorised but then stopped an attack on Iran.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48714414

    This is interesting as it is consistent with the view that Trump is far more cautious than is made out, and he fears being bounced into foreign wars by the neocons around John Bolton. Much the same is true in Venezuela.

    Trump is a populist. Wars that last any length of time and cause massive casualties are unpopular, and it's hard to see a quick, clean victory in Venezuela or Iran should the US take leave of its last senses and attack them.
    There is a train of thought developing in America that Trump is not even a very good populist because he is not taking care of his voters, just the rich. It is worth bearing this in mind when betting on the US election next year.
    Who is this a surprise to! Do people seriously think Farage and Banks would help them here......
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,844

    Scott_P said:
    That video has been viewed over a million times already. You’d have thought the spokesman on the radio would have accounted for at least one of them.
    Compare that response to the staff when a man high on drugs and waving a nine inch blade attacked the Leicester Royal Infirmary Emergency Dept last year. The security footage shows him stabbing a man outside first, but watch to the end.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/leicester-royal-infirmary-knife-attack-nurse-video-just-doing-job-yusuf-aka-latest-jailed-a8511591.html
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    IanB2 said:


    That is a stunning result. On paper it was a tight Con/Lab marginal. We can see from the +24% that the LibDems have come from nowhere to win the ward. They made a bit of effort, with Ed Davey’s seat next door, but this wasn’t a “throw in every volunteer across London” by-election.

    It underlines the problem Labour is in, in London and the SE
    Take a look at the figures for Cities of London & Westminster at the last general election - the Lib Dems would be starting from quite a similar position. The Lib Dems would want a crack at that, especially bearing in mind that the Brexit party would also be standing.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,321

    Both Tory and Labour remain coalescing around the LDs. It's why some of the most spectacular results could come in London at the next GE.
    Nice. B)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,995
    tlg86 said:

    It looks awful. The initial stop was clumsy enough but grabbing her round the neck? That’s indefensible.

    Nah, I’d give Field a medal, who knows what she could have been planning to do.
    Who knows what anyone could be planning to do ? Uncertainty is not a broad justification for violence.
    One the evidence (she was, for instance, brandishing a deeply threatening mobile phone) Field’s use of force appears excessive.
    And looking at the video it does suggest that anger rather than fear was his driving motivation.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,392
    Foxy said:

    Sean_F said:

    JackW said:

    Field should be able to weather the issue if he steps down and eats humble pie.....not a good image following his attempts to promote the FCO's women, peace and security agenda...as previous said, not a byelection Hunt/Johnson would want to fight.....

    I think the Twateratti and allies may find Field enjoys more support than they think.

    If you disrupt an official function and attempt to confront a government minister, causing a breach of the peace, you may find yourself at the thick end of a robust response. I'd have carried out a citizens arrest and accordingly used reasonable force to remove the threat and in short order transfer the potential attacker from my lawful custody to the first available constable.

    Let us also reflect that if this woman was a rogue protester and the Chancellor had been seriously injured or killed we would all be reflecting on the shocking security shortcomings or why someone close to Hammond hadn't intervened.

    Some in government should have Field's back, it could have been the Chancellor's back with a knife in it, lord knows we've seen plenty of political stabbing this week.
    It seems similar to John Prescott in the 2001 election.
    Err, no.

    John Prescott was assaulted and punched back. This protester may have been disruptive, but did not assault anyone. It doesn't look like reasonable force to me.

    Field was not an ordinary diner. As an MP, he should be used to protesters and hecklers. Indeed at the moment there is a perpetual presence of Brexit related pickets outside parliament, so a daily event.

    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1141822257007910912?s=19
    That's it? I was expecting at least a couple of karate chops and an upper cut into the kidneys from the excitement on here. I would be astounded if anything came of that.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Mark Field should be applauded for his safety first approach.

    The vile ill mannered slatterns spoiling a nice dinner to make selfish virtue signalling demonstrations.

    Jail the lot of them.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,019

    Brecon & Radnor recall petition to be counted at 10 o'clock
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-48706720

    So we'll probably get the result late morning.

    If there is a by-election then expect Hunt & Johnson to make sure they are seen to be campaigning there.
    Been busy last few days so not been on but I see my outlook on Rory the Tory was proven to be 100% accurate. I seem not to be as crap as was forecast after all.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,870
    TGOHF said:

    Mark Field should be applauded for his safety first approach.

    The vile ill mannered slatterns spoiling a nice dinner to make selfish virtue signalling demonstrations.

    Jail the lot of them.

    That's 'ironic', right?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,019
    IanB2 said:

    It looks awful. The initial stop was clumsy enough but grabbing her round the neck? That’s indefensible.

    It doesn’t look good but I don’t think it is that bad. He was holding her by the back of the neck and the top of one arm. There aren’t any better or more polite places he could have got hold of her to march her out of the room. Looking at the video he did jump up suddenly and may have thought she was armed with a milkshake, or worse. More level headed judgement might have been to block the passage and wait a few seconds for security to come over. The footage does suggest he has a short temper. But I don’t see a by election here.
    Did you see the snarl on his nasty coupon, a real thug. If it had been a man he would have been under the table wobbling like a jelly. A real nasty piece of work.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,246
    I’m already bored with the Mark Field video.

    The protestors were highly disruptive, sounding off foghorns and rape alarms, and trespassing on private property into a private function to which they hadn’t been invited. They were asked to leave and didn’t leave, after they had already disrupted Hammond’s speech.

    Mark Field was clearly furious but the way he forcibly escorted her from the building was not assault, was reasonable and was no worse than I’ve seen many security guards, bouncers or police use when escorting people from the premises. It’s now become a meme as people seek to make points about domestic violence, climate change and get one in on the Tories.

    Get a grip.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,995
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Mark Field is not really my cup of tea, but my sympathies are with him, rather than the tosser he ejected.

    I don't see why we have to choose. Surely it's possible to be unimpressed with the behaviour of both.
    Agreed.
    Indeed, this rush to "oh, you have to choose a side" is frankly sick.

    Should the protestor have been there? No. And she should have been escorted from the premises by security. (And possibly charged, if she broke a crime.)

    And should Mr Field have grabbed her by the neck, bashed her against the wall, and pushed her out the room? Nope, that neither. If a police officer did that with a peaceful protestor (especially one who hadn't even been ask to "move along" yet), I hope we'd say that excess force was used.

    There's no need to take sides here. They both behaved poorly, and requiring that there is some "ranking" is wank.
    I’d agree with that ... though did Field commit a law ... ? :smile:

    Organised disruptive protests are a problem we should be thinking hard about, but the current political climate is unlikely to see much measured debate.

  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,197
    Nigelb said:

    tlg86 said:

    It looks awful. The initial stop was clumsy enough but grabbing her round the neck? That’s indefensible.

    Nah, I’d give Field a medal, who knows what she could have been planning to do.
    Who knows what anyone could be planning to do ? Uncertainty is not a broad justification for violence.
    One the evidence (she was, for instance, brandishing a deeply threatening mobile phone) Field’s use of force appears excessive.
    And looking at the video it does suggest that anger rather than fear was his driving motivation.
    Agreed, would imagine police response is a warning or formal caution rather than any charges though.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,238
    rcs1000 said:


    There's no need to take sides here. They both behaved poorly, and requiring that there is some "ranking" is wank.

    This is all true, but nonetheless it’s surely not unreasonable to hold MPs - who are highly paid public servants - to a higher standard of behaviour than provocateur protesters?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    TGOHF said:

    Mark Field should be applauded for his safety first approach.

    The vile ill mannered slatterns spoiling a nice dinner to make selfish virtue signalling demonstrations.

    Jail the lot of them.

    That's 'ironic', right?
    A plague on both their houses.

    Who would want a dinner ruined by listening to Hammond ?

    But those Greenpeace harpies can get in Rory’s bin too - attention seeking puritan bores.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,389

    Both Tory and Labour remain coalescing around the LDs. It's why some of the most spectacular results could come in London at the next GE.
    It would be deliciously ironic if London were to cost Boris the next GE.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,536
    I see that Johnny Mercer, Boris’ stooge of the day, said on R4 that you just have to believe in GATT 24 enough and we can use it as a “standstill” agreement.

    Mark Carney (I know, noted Remainer and subversive) thinks otherwise.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,870
    IanB2 said:


    That is a stunning result. On paper it was a tight Con/Lab marginal. We can see from the +24% that the LibDems have come from nowhere to win the ward. They made a bit of effort, with Ed Davey’s seat next door, but this wasn’t a “throw in every volunteer across London” by-election.

    It underlines the problem Labour is in, in London and the SE
    Labour and Tory both down by approx 14% - it's unusual for both main parties to be affected.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,238

    I’m already bored with the Mark Field video.

    The protestors were highly disruptive, sounding off foghorns and rape alarms, and trespassing on private property into a private function to which they hadn’t been invited. They were asked to leave and didn’t leave, after they had already disrupted Hammond’s speech.

    Mark Field was clearly furious but the way he forcibly escorted her from the building was not assault, was reasonable and was no worse than I’ve seen many security guards, bouncers or police use when escorting people from the premises. It’s now become a meme as people seek to make points about domestic violence, climate change and get one in on the Tories.

    Get a grip.

    Unless you’re Mark Field, in which case, probably best not to get a grip of anyone for a while.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,844
    TOPPING said:

    I see that Johnny Mercer, Boris’ stooge of the day, said on R4 that you just have to believe in GATT 24 enough and we can use it as a “standstill” agreement.

    Mark Carney (I know, noted Remainer and subversive) thinks otherwise.

    GATT 24 only applies if an FTA has been agreed by both sides, it does not apply in the event of a No Deal Brexit.

    Why is it that so many of our MPs do not understand the basics, 3 years after the referendum?
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Mark Field is not really my cup of tea, but my sympathies are with him, rather than the tosser he ejected.

    I don't see why we have to choose. Surely it's possible to be unimpressed with the behaviour of both.
    Agreed.
    Indeed, this rush to "oh, you have to choose a side" is frankly sick.

    Should the protestor have been there? No. And she should have been escorted from the premises by security. (And possibly charged, if she broke a crime.)

    And should Mr Field have grabbed her by the neck, bashed her against the wall, and pushed her out the room? Nope, that neither. If a police officer did that with a peaceful protestor (especially one who hadn't even been ask to "move along" yet), I hope we'd say that excess force was used.

    There's no need to take sides here. They both behaved poorly, and requiring that there is some "ranking" is wank.
    One of my worries at some of the reaction is that some of the people defending Mark Field are doing so because this was a protestor for a cause they oppose, but if they'd been a protestor for an impeccably right-wing cause then they would have a different view.

    That's a deeply worrying sign of the polarisation of our politics.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    In the video Field looks as though he had had far too much to drink.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,637
    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    I see that Johnny Mercer, Boris’ stooge of the day, said on R4 that you just have to believe in GATT 24 enough and we can use it as a “standstill” agreement.

    Mark Carney (I know, noted Remainer and subversive) thinks otherwise.

    GATT 24 only applies if an FTA has been agreed by both sides, it does not apply in the event of a No Deal Brexit.

    Why is it that so many of our MPs do not understand the basics, 3 years after the referendum?
    Those MPs, just like the army of ConHome posters behind them, *believe* in ‘no deal’ first, and worry about its implications afterwards, if at all.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,637
    edited June 2019

    IanB2 said:


    That is a stunning result. On paper it was a tight Con/Lab marginal. We can see from the +24% that the LibDems have come from nowhere to win the ward. They made a bit of effort, with Ed Davey’s seat next door, but this wasn’t a “throw in every volunteer across London” by-election.

    It underlines the problem Labour is in, in London and the SE
    Labour and Tory both down by approx 14% - it's unusual for both main parties to be affected.

    Especially in a marginal! It would be interesting to know how much effort the other parties made, especially Labour which would have thousands of activists in and around Merton.

    In the other London by-election yesterday in Wandsworth, the LibDems went from 5% to 24% and pushed the Tories into third place - on 18% - in (a Labour bit of) Wandsworth!

    The Tories may as well write London off, with Brexit and all, but for Labour to be in such trouble there as well is remarkable.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,870
    tlg86 said:

    Foxy said:

    Sean_F said:

    JackW said:

    Field should be able to weather the issue if he steps down and eats humble pie.....not a good image following his attempts to promote the FCO's women, peace and security agenda...as previous said, not a byelection Hunt/Johnson would want to fight.....

    I think the Twateratti and allies may find Field enjoys more support than they think.

    If you disrupt an official function and attempt to confront a government minister, causing a breach of the peace, you may find yourself at the thick end of a robust response. I'd have carried out a citizens arrest and accordingly used reasonable force to remove the threat and in short order transfer the potential attacker from my lawful custody to the first available constable.

    Let us also reflect that if this woman was a rogue protester and the Chancellor had been seriously injured or killed we would all be reflecting on the shocking security shortcomings or why someone close to Hammond hadn't intervened.

    Some in government should have Field's back, it could have been the Chancellor's back with a knife in it, lord knows we've seen plenty of political stabbing this week.
    It seems similar to John Prescott in the 2001 election.
    Err, no.

    John Prescott was assaulted and punched back. This protester may have been disruptive, but did not assault anyone. It doesn't look like reasonable force to me.

    Field was not an ordinary diner. As an MP, he should be used to protesters and hecklers. Indeed at the moment there is a perpetual presence of Brexit related pickets outside parliament, so a daily event.

    https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1141822257007910912?s=19
    But they are demonstrating legally, she wasn’t and post-Jo Cox I think such breaches of security should be taken very seriously.
    Climate protesters and the ultra right wing don't pose the same threat.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,197
    edited June 2019
    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    I see that Johnny Mercer, Boris’ stooge of the day, said on R4 that you just have to believe in GATT 24 enough and we can use it as a “standstill” agreement.

    Mark Carney (I know, noted Remainer and subversive) thinks otherwise.

    GATT 24 only applies if an FTA has been agreed by both sides, it does not apply in the event of a No Deal Brexit.

    Why is it that so many of our MPs do not understand the basics, 3 years after the referendum?
    Those MPs, just like the army of ConHome posters behind them, *believe* in ‘no deal’ first, and worry about its implications afterwards, if at all.
    It does seem crazy that there in not enough media scrutiny to debunk this nonsense. Being fair to all sides does not mean not challenging and ridiculing the earth being flat.

    Does anyone on here believe we will go straight onto GATT24 without EU agreement?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,844

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Mark Field is not really my cup of tea, but my sympathies are with him, rather than the tosser he ejected.

    I don't see why we have to choose. Surely it's possible to be unimpressed with the behaviour of both.
    Agreed.
    Indeed, this rush to "oh, you have to choose a side" is frankly sick.

    Should the protestor have been there? No. And she should have been escorted from the premises by security. (And possibly charged, if she broke a crime.)

    And should Mr Field have grabbed her by the neck, bashed her against the wall, and pushed her out the room? Nope, that neither. If a police officer did that with a peaceful protestor (especially one who hadn't even been ask to "move along" yet), I hope we'd say that excess force was used.

    There's no need to take sides here. They both behaved poorly, and requiring that there is some "ranking" is wank.
    One of my worries at some of the reaction is that some of the people defending Mark Field are doing so because this was a protestor for a cause they oppose, but if they'd been a protestor for an impeccably right-wing cause then they would have a different view.

    That's a deeply worrying sign of the polarisation of our politics.
    Yes, consider if that was an anti-semitism protest at a Labour party function. Would they interpret events the same?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,392

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Mark Field is not really my cup of tea, but my sympathies are with him, rather than the tosser he ejected.

    I don't see why we have to choose. Surely it's possible to be unimpressed with the behaviour of both.
    Agreed.
    Indeed, this rush to "oh, you have to choose a side" is frankly sick.

    Should the protestor have been there? No. And she should have been escorted from the premises by security. (And possibly charged, if she broke a crime.)

    And should Mr Field have grabbed her by the neck, bashed her against the wall, and pushed her out the room? Nope, that neither. If a police officer did that with a peaceful protestor (especially one who hadn't even been ask to "move along" yet), I hope we'd say that excess force was used.

    There's no need to take sides here. They both behaved poorly, and requiring that there is some "ranking" is wank.
    One of my worries at some of the reaction is that some of the people defending Mark Field are doing so because this was a protestor for a cause they oppose, but if they'd been a protestor for an impeccably right-wing cause then they would have a different view.

    That's a deeply worrying sign of the polarisation of our politics.
    Thought about that. Nope. If she was campaigning about Hammond's frankly bizarre refusal to allow preparations for a no deal Brexit or failure to address the inconsistencies between IT and NI she would still have deserved to be chucked out.

    I think I live a pretty sheltered life but even I have seen vastly more violent confrontations and much greater force used by bouncers, security staff and of course police officers on many occasions.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Foxy said:

    TOPPING said:

    I see that Johnny Mercer, Boris’ stooge of the day, said on R4 that you just have to believe in GATT 24 enough and we can use it as a “standstill” agreement.

    Mark Carney (I know, noted Remainer and subversive) thinks otherwise.

    GATT 24 only applies if an FTA has been agreed by both sides, it does not apply in the event of a No Deal Brexit.

    Why is it that so many of our MPs do not understand the basics, 3 years after the referendum?
    Because it’s the new WTO buzz word to feed the masses who when challenged to explain tariff implications can now spout GATT 24. Problem solved, nothing to worry about.
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