politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » This is a good moment to recall the MP stage of the 2001 Tory
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No, it just tells you the survey is bollocks.AlastairMeeks said:That astounding survey that reported that IDS is one of Conservative members’ favourite post-war leaders tells you what you need to know about the state of the current Conservative party.
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You must try!logical_song said:
Well I am a Remainer with an ERG loon as my MP, but it will be tricky to get Suella out.SquareRoot said:
If I was a Remainer with an ERG loon as my MP, I would vote for any party that would eject them. I'll vote for my Tory MP at the next GE because he's a good guy and not an ERG loon.DavidL said:
I don't see it quite like that. I think that the candidates (except Rory) were correct that the party faces an existential threat from the Brexit Party and the only solution is to deliver Brexit, any Brexit. Rory was more interested (in a classical Tory way now out of fashion) in the national interest rather than the party one. That view having been rejected Boris will do his best to deliver Brexit and will have an election committed to one if, as I expect, the current HoC continues its defiance. Some of what we might now call the Rory tendency will leave but I don't think the party will split.AlastairMeeks said:
The current Conservative party is not going to reunite unless and until one group has been proved triumphantly right and the other has been wholly chastened. That could take quite a while. Much more likely, it will split further.DavidL said:
That's a chicken and egg though. IDS had a lack of support amongst MPs because he was useless and they knew he was. Same as Corbyn. That might not apply to a Hunt but reuniting the Tory party and keeping it united through Brexit would challenge the skills of Disraeli, let alone the present mob.AlastairMeeks said:
IDS failed all by himself. His lack of support among MPs was a consequence of his lack of talent not a cause of his failure.DavidL said:Is the message of IDS not in part that anyone other than Boris is also going to really struggle to have a significant number of MPs on board and have a weak position in Parliament? What I think we will see today is more than half of all the MPs backing Boris, probably more like 2/3 in the final ballot.
What both Corbyn and IDS show is that systems which involve the membership are all very well but if you are to be a successful leader you need the broad support of MPs in Parliament. Corbyn's ever revolving shadow cabinet of little talent has meant that there has been an incredibly ineffective opposition to a minority government over the last 2 years. Too many of the Tory MPs could never take IDS seriously for obvious reasons.
Whilst the membership of either party are capable of swinging a surprise it doesn't work out.0 -
At the start of the contest I had fairly similar views of Hunt and Javid as high-achieving empty suits, but now I see Javid much more favourably than Hunt whose sense of entitlement seems almost hysterical.Casino_Royale said:I think the Saj is the nicest and most human candidate in this contest.
It’s a shame it took him so long to warm up. Hopefully, he’ll be a serious contender in future too.0 -
Some interesting global polling:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/19/us-russia-saudi-arabia-israel-iran-forces-for-bad-poll-finds0 -
Justin - terrifying. Glad they got the bastard.0
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I'm very sorry to hear that, and I hope you make a speedy recovery. That must have been very upsetting indeed.justin124 said:I am sorry to report that last night - shortly before 9.30 - I was the victim of attempted robbery via a knife attack. I was returning home from a church meeting when I became aware of being followed on the pavement by a young guy riding a bike. My intuition kicked in - perhaps on account of his riding so slowly behind me with no desire to overtake - and I crossed the road when less than 3 minutes from home. I became seriously alarmed when he followed me , and eventually drew level with me. He then asked me for money, drew a knife and threatened to stab me. Shock and panic set in, I shouted at him and ran. He continued to pusue me - and in trying to escape I stumbled, fell to the ground and grazed my hands and left knee.I managed to recover and found refuge in the home of a neighbour whose front door I was fortunately able to open. My assailant had followed me into the front garden of my neighbour's property - but made no attempt to enter. My neighbour called the Police , and over the next two hours I provided a full statement. There was then intense Police activity in the area with as many as ten vehicles appearing. The good news is that there are indications that this guy has been apprehended - together with a possible accomplice.In the end , I have been very fortunate - though it was a very scary experience.
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That’s an untested bit of high end polling.OldKingCole said:
Have you ever been to the border area? And some 40+% of the N Irish population want Union with Ireland anyway.Viceroy_of_Orange said:A full border should have been put up when southern Ireland became a Republic and severed ties with the Commonwealth. They wanted independence, we should have given them full independence on day one. No CTA, no pegged currencies, no British defence and the same customs duties we'd impose on anybody else.
I am fed up of the kowtowing to this tiny Republic, who generally don't even like us anyway. It was only in the 1990s they officially repealed claims on our territory. Full border controls now please - let their French and German masters defend Irish airspace and waters for free.0 -
While i strongly dislike Boris... I hate Gove intensely...so in a Boris-Gove run-off I would find myself supporting Boris. I would just feel dirty...0
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That's the sort of angry throwaway (trolling) remark you see more on the Guido Fawkes website than here, if I may say so. It seems to me there is a massive spectrum on this site which is great, but 'pissing away' is not really a helpful way to describe our internationally agreed foreign aid response and 'handing' the EU what amounts to our obligation under previously agreed terms and conditions is also a tad intemperate?Viceroy_of_Orange said:
By handing the EU £39bn and pissing away £9bn in Foreign Aid?Casino_Royale said:I don’t much care for his dabbles into politics but i am fairly glad he’s been controlling the public purse.
Interesting definition of financial prudence.
I think that rather illustrates Alastair's point though. There is a massive chasm between you/tory members and the rest of the country. IDS is as far removed from where the mainstream of this country sits as you can currently conceive.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
Not sure why you are so surprised. Osborne and Cameron stood for nothing other than GDP figures (and weren't even good at it) and IDS is at least somebody who says and votes for conservative ideas like national independence.AlastairMeeks said:That astounding survey that reported that IDS is one of Conservative members’ favourite post-war leaders tells you what you need to know about the state of the current Conservative party.
I have always liked IDS as have all the Tory voters I know.0 -
Yes, Javid has grown on me too as the best of a bad lot, but will be out today almost certainly.williamglenn said:
At the start of the contest I had fairly similar views of Hunt and Javid as high-achieving empty suits, but now I see Javid much more favourably than Hunt whose sense of entitlement seems almost hysterical.Casino_Royale said:I think the Saj is the nicest and most human candidate in this contest.
It’s a shame it took him so long to warm up. Hopefully, he’ll be a serious contender in future too.0 -
Good that you're in one piece but a very unpleasant experience. Was this London?justin124 said:I am sorry to report that last night - shortly before 9.30 - I was the victim of attempted robbery via a knife attack. I was returning home from a church meeting when I became aware of being followed on the pavement by a young guy riding a bike. My intuition kicked in - perhaps on account of his riding so slowly behind me with no desire to overtake - and I crossed the road when less than 3 minutes from home. I became seriously alarmed when he followed me , and eventually drew level with me. He then asked me for money, drew a knife and threatened to stab me. Shock and panic set in, I shouted at him and ran. He continued to pusue me - and in trying to escape I stumbled, fell to the ground and grazed my hands and left knee.I managed to recover and found refuge in the home of a neighbour whose front door I was fortunately able to open. My assailant had followed me into the front garden of my neighbour's property - but made no attempt to enter. My neighbour called the Police , and over the next two hours I provided a full statement. There was then intense Police activity in the area with as many as ten vehicles appearing. The good news is that there are indications that this guy has been apprehended - together with a possible accomplice.In the end , I have been very fortunate - though it was a very scary experience.
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Glad you are okay, (mostly) try not to let it affect your confidence going forward (easier said than done) you might be a bit more on edge for a while but that will subside. Messed up thing to happen.justin124 said:I am sorry to report that last night - shortly before 9.30 - I was the victim of attempted robbery via a knife attack. I was returning home from a church meeting when I became aware of being followed on the pavement by a young guy riding a bike. My intuition kicked in - perhaps on account of his riding so slowly behind me with no desire to overtake - and I crossed the road when less than 3 minutes from home. I became seriously alarmed when he followed me , and eventually drew level with me. He then asked me for money, drew a knife and threatened to stab me. Shock and panic set in, I shouted at him and ran. He continued to pusue me - and in trying to escape I stumbled, fell to the ground and grazed my hands and left knee.I managed to recover and found refuge in the home of a neighbour whose front door I was fortunately able to open. My assailant had followed me into the front garden of my neighbour's property - but made no attempt to enter. My neighbour called the Police , and over the next two hours I provided a full statement. There was then intense Police activity in the area with as many as ten vehicles appearing. The good news is that there are indications that this guy has been apprehended - together with a possible accomplice.In the end , I have been very fortunate - though it was a very scary experience.
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Crikey. I'm so sorry to hear that. Hope you are as okay as possible. That's awful.justin124 said:I am sorry to report that last night - shortly before 9.30 - I was the victim of attempted robbery via a knife attackthough it was a very scary experience.
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You don't have to support either.Penddu said:While i strongly dislike Boris... I hate Gove intensely...so in a Boris-Gove run-off I would find myself supporting Boris. I would just feel dirty...
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Saj next. Potentially formidable leader of the opposition.Foxy said:
Yes, Javid has grown on me too as the best of a bad lot, but will be out today almost certainly.williamglenn said:
At the start of the contest I had fairly similar views of Hunt and Javid as high-achieving empty suits, but now I see Javid much more favourably than Hunt whose sense of entitlement seems almost hysterical.Casino_Royale said:I think the Saj is the nicest and most human candidate in this contest.
It’s a shame it took him so long to warm up. Hopefully, he’ll be a serious contender in future too.0 -
No - it was here in Norwich.Roger said:
Good that you're in one piece but a very unpleasant experience. Was this London?justin124 said:I am sorry to report that last night - shortly before 9.30 - I was the victim of attempted robbery via a knife attack. I was returning home from a church meeting when I became aware of being followed on the pavement by a young guy riding a bike. My intuition kicked in - perhaps on account of his riding so slowly behind me with no desire to overtake - and I crossed the road when less than 3 minutes from home. I became seriously alarmed when he followed me , and eventually drew level with me. He then asked me for money, drew a knife and threatened to stab me. Shock and panic set in, I shouted at him and ran. He continued to pusue me - and in trying to escape I stumbled, fell to the ground and grazed my hands and left knee.I managed to recover and found refuge in the home of a neighbour whose front door I was fortunately able to open. My assailant had followed me into the front garden of my neighbour's property - but made no attempt to enter. My neighbour called the Police , and over the next two hours I provided a full statement. There was then intense Police activity in the area with as many as ten vehicles appearing. The good news is that there are indications that this guy has been apprehended - together with a possible accomplice.In the end , I have been very fortunate - though it was a very scary experience.
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Today makes for interesting viewing from a realpolitik perspective. Boris is going to be the next leader barring an inverted pyramid of piffle crashing down to demolish Operation Juddering Climax. So MPs are voting for the back up option. How their votes switch around in the two ballots today will be instructive as to how much Tory MPs are as stupid as the "let's trash the Union the economy and the party" membership.
When Boris wins, the ultimate question will be stick or twist. Are you going to gamble that a full throated pledge for immediate no deal will win you the election and worry about consequences later? Or are you going to sit and wait, delay Brexit, and watch your party die slowly and horribly?
Boris wants to be written about in books other than sexy ones. He sees great figures from history. He'll twist. Boris wins the leadership, Boris goes to the country in October, Boris leaves the EU 31st October with no deal. Not sure what happens after that - it's like asking what happens after that asteroid hits the Earth.0 -
I am so sorry to hear that Justin. I hope you recover from your ordeal quickly and your assailant is dealt with by the full force of the lawjustin124 said:I am sorry to report that last night - shortly before 9.30 - I was the victim of attempted robbery via a knife attack. I was returning home from a church meeting when I became aware of being followed on the pavement by a young guy riding a bike. My intuition kicked in - perhaps on account of his riding so slowly behind me with no desire to overtake - and I crossed the road when less than 3 minutes from home. I became seriously alarmed when he followed me , and eventually drew level with me. He then asked me for money, drew a knife and threatened to stab me. Shock and panic set in, I shouted at him and ran. He continued to pusue me - and in trying to escape I stumbled, fell to the ground and grazed my hands and left knee.I managed to recover and found refuge in the home of a neighbour whose front door I was fortunately able to open. My assailant had followed me into the front garden of my neighbour's property - but made no attempt to enter. My neighbour called the Police , and over the next two hours I provided a full statement. There was then intense Police activity in the area with as many as ten vehicles appearing. The good news is that there are indications that this guy has been apprehended - together with a possible accomplice.In the end , I have been very fortunate - though it was a very scary experience.
All the best0 -
Boris will either rat (call a 2nd ref) or obtain some very cosmetic changes to the existing WA, and triumphantly return hailing it as the greatest victory since Churchill.DavidL said:
I don't see it quite like that. I think that the candidates (except Rory) were correct that the party faces an existential threat from the Brexit Party and the only solution is to deliver Brexit, any Brexit. Rory was more interested (in a classical Tory way now out of fashion) in the national interest rather than the party one. That view having been rejected Boris will do his best to deliver Brexit and will have an election committed to one if, as I expect, the current HoC continues its defiance. Some of what we might now call the Rory tendency will leave but I don't think the party will split.AlastairMeeks said:
The current Conservative party is not going to reunite unless and until one group has been proved triumphantly right and the other has been wholly chastened. That could take quite a while. Much more likely, it will split further.DavidL said:
That's a chicken and egg though. IDS had a lack of support amongst MPs because he was useless and they knew he was. Same as Corbyn. That might not apply to a Hunt but reuniting the Tory party and keeping it united through Brexit would challenge the skills of Disraeli, let alone the present mob.AlastairMeeks said:
IDS failed all by himself. His lack of support among MPs was a consequence of his lack of talent not a cause of his failure.DavidL said:Is the message of IDS not in part that anyone other than Boris is also going to really struggle to have a significant number of MPs on board and have a weak position in Parliament? What I think we will see today is more than half of all the MPs backing Boris, probably more like 2/3 in the final ballot.
What both Corbyn and IDS show is that systems which involve the membership are all very well but if you are to be a successful leader you need the broad support of MPs in Parliament. Corbyn's ever revolving shadow cabinet of little talent has meant that there has been an incredibly ineffective opposition to a minority government over the last 2 years. Too many of the Tory MPs could never take IDS seriously for obvious reasons.
Whilst the membership of either party are capable of swinging a surprise it doesn't work out.
His only hope are that the ERG are stupid enough to believe him, which I wouldn’t wholly rule out.
And he might possibly do both. He will do whatever is best for Boris the whole way through. Nothing else.0 -
He’s continued to reduce the deficit and resisted (unsuccessfully in some instances) extra demands on the public purse.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
By handing the EU £39bn and pissing away £9bn in Foreign Aid?Casino_Royale said:I don’t much care for his dabbles into politics but i am fairly glad he’s been controlling the public purse.
Interesting definition of financial prudence.
The nation’s finances are in a much better state as a consequence, as is our economy.0 -
As has been stated many times on here, it is not sufficient to win over the ERG. So this is completely the wrong approach. To get the WA through the House of Commons it requires what Ted Heath sussed decades ago: the support of Labour / Lib Dem moderates.Casino_Royale said:
Boris will either rat (call a 2nd ref) or obtain some very cosmetic changes to the existing WA, and triumphantly return hailing it as the greatest victory since Churchill.DavidL said:
I don't see it quite like that. I think that the candidates (except Rory) were correct that the party faces an existential threat from the Brexit Party and the only solution is to deliver Brexit, any Brexit. Rory was more interested (in a classical Tory way now out of fashion) in the national interest rather than the party one. That view having been rejected Boris will do his best to deliver Brexit and will have an election committed to one if, as I expect, the current HoC continues its defiance. Some of what we might now call the Rory tendency will leave but I don't think the party will split.AlastairMeeks said:
The current Conservative party is not going to reunite unless and until one group has been proved triumphantly right and the other has been wholly chastened. That could take quite a while. Much more likely, it will split further.DavidL said:
That's a chicken and egg though. IDS had a lack of support amongst MPs because he was useless and they knew he was. Same as Corbyn. That might not apply to a Hunt but reuniting the Tory party and keeping it united through Brexit would challenge the skills of Disraeli, let alone the present mob.AlastairMeeks said:
IDS failed all by himself. His lack of support among MPs was a consequence of his lack of talent not a cause of his failure.DavidL said:Is the message of IDS not in part that anyone other than Boris is also going to really struggle to have a significant number of MPs on board and have a weak position in Parliament? What I think we will see today is more than half of all the MPs backing Boris, probably more like 2/3 in the final ballot.
W
His only hope are that the ERG are stupid enough to believe him, which I wouldn’t wholly rule out.
And he might possibly do both. He will do whatever is best for Boris the whole way through. Nothing else.
I think Rory might conceivably have achieved that. There is NO chance Boris will. He is loathed by vast swathes of the House of Commons.
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Perhaps but I also don’t doubt that the Saj would take tough or unpopular decisions.Roger said:
Big mistake to look for nice. Think of them being judged by the Addams FamilyCasino_Royale said:I think the Saj is the nicest and most human candidate in this contest.
It’s a shame it took him so long to warm up. Hopefully, he’ll be a serious contender in future too.
Indeed, he already has.0 -
Sordid, I think you meant to write?RochdalePioneers said:
Boris wants to be written about in books other than sexy ones.0 -
Like running for leader this year? ;-)Casino_Royale said:
Perhaps but I also don’t doubt that the Saj would take tough or unpopular decisions.Roger said:
Big mistake to look for nice. Think of them being judged by the Addams FamilyCasino_Royale said:I think the Saj is the nicest and most human candidate in this contest.
It’s a shame it took him so long to warm up. Hopefully, he’ll be a serious contender in future too.
Indeed, he already has.0 -
Unfortunately for punters the results are likely to be skewed by loaned votes.Recidivist said:Incidentally, the punters who instantly changed the price on Rory after the debate on Tuesday obviously read the runes a lot better than those of us discussing it on here.
Back whoever Boris wants to face in the last 2 is my strategy. Which is Hunt.1 -
@justin124 that’s absolutely horrible. My condolences on having to suffer such an ordeal. I bet you’re still shaking now.
I hope it’s some consolation that hopefully the police have now caught the bastard.
Keep your chin up and take it easy for the next few days. Try not to let this affect your confidence.
This is still an extremely rare occurrence.0 -
What is remarkable is that the dislike of him on his own benches has (or appears to have) reduced so dramatically. The Tories must be in a real panic.Mysticrose said:
As has been stated many times on here, it is not sufficient to win over the ERG. So this is completely the wrong approach. To get the WA through the House of Commons it requires what Ted Heath sussed decades ago: the support of Labour / Lib Dem moderates.Casino_Royale said:
Boris will either rat (call a 2nd ref) or obtain some very cosmetic changes to the existing WA, and triumphantly return hailing it as the greatest victory since Churchill.DavidL said:
I don't see it quite like that. I think that the candidates (except Rory) were correct that the party faces an existential threat from the Brexit Party and the only solution is to deliver Brexit, any Brexit. Rory was more interested (in a classical Tory way now out of fashion) in the national interest rather than the party one. That view having been rejected Boris will do his best to deliver Brexit and will have an election committed to one if, as I expect, the current HoC continues its defiance. Some of what we might now call the Rory tendency will leave but I don't think the party will split.AlastairMeeks said:
The current Conservative party is not going to reunite unless and until one group has been proved triumphantly right and the other has been wholly chastened. That could take quite a while. Much more likely, it will split further.DavidL said:
That's a chicken and egg though. IDS had a lack of support amongst MPs because he was useless and they knew he was. Same as Corbyn. That might not apply to a Hunt but reuniting the Tory party and keeping it united through Brexit would challenge the skills of Disraeli, let alone the present mob.AlastairMeeks said:
IDS failed all by himself. His lack of support among MPs was a consequence of his lack of talent not a cause of his failure.DavidL said:Is the message of IDS not in part that anyone other than Boris is also going to really struggle to have a significant number of MPs on board and have a weak position in Parliament? What I think we will see today is more than half of all the MPs backing Boris, probably more like 2/3 in the final ballot.
W
His only hope are that the ERG are stupid enough to believe him, which I wouldn’t wholly rule out.
And he might possibly do both. He will do whatever is best for Boris the whole way through. Nothing else.
I think Rory might conceivably have achieved that. There is NO chance Boris will. He is loathed by vast swathes of the House of Commons.0 -
Why did Portillo not storm it? He seems to have had all the right credentials - eurosceptic, Maggie’s endorsement. IDS at the time seemed to have very little to offer.0
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I'm very glad that you didn't get seriously hurt and that the Police caught them! Best wishes to you today!justin124 said:I am sorry to report that last night - shortly before 9.30 - I was the victim of attempted robbery via a knife attack. I was returning home from a church meeting when I became aware of being followed on the pavement by a young guy riding a bike. My intuition kicked in - perhaps on account of his riding so slowly behind me with no desire to overtake - and I crossed the road when less than 3 minutes from home. I became seriously alarmed when he followed me , and eventually drew level with me. He then asked me for money, drew a knife and threatened to stab me. Shock and panic set in, I shouted at him and ran. He continued to pusue me - and in trying to escape I stumbled, fell to the ground and grazed my hands and left knee.I managed to recover and found refuge in the home of a neighbour whose front door I was fortunately able to open. My assailant had followed me into the front garden of my neighbour's property - but made no attempt to enter. My neighbour called the Police , and over the next two hours I provided a full statement. There was then intense Police activity in the area with as many as ten vehicles appearing. The good news is that there are indications that this guy has been apprehended - together with a possible accomplice.In the end , I have been very fortunate - though it was a very scary experience.
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No but you are significantly less typical han most people including most Tory members - and most ordinary people anywhere.Roger said:
It would be interesting to work backwards and try to picture what the demographic looks like. It'll certainly look like nothing I've ever seen.AlastairMeeks said:That astounding survey that reported that IDS is one of Conservative members’ favourite post-war leaders tells you what you need to know about the state of the current Conservative party.
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Is he going to be that bothered? He should win at a canter whoever he faces.TGOHF said:
Unfortunately for punters the results are likely to be skewed by loaned votes.Recidivist said:Incidentally, the punters who instantly changed the price on Rory after the debate on Tuesday obviously read the runes a lot better than those of us discussing it on here.
Back whoever Boris wants to face in the last 2 is my strategy. Which is Hunt.0 -
Because he was a piece of work.Stark_Dawning said:Why did Portillo not storm it? He seems to have had all the right credentials - eurosceptic, Maggie’s endorsement. IDS at the time seemed to have very little to offer.
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Awful. My sympathies.justin124 said:I am sorry to report that last night - shortly before 9.30 - I was the victim of attempted robbery via a knife attack. I was returning home from a church meeting when I became aware of being followed on the pavement by a young guy riding a bike. My intuition kicked in - perhaps on account of his riding so slowly behind me with no desire to overtake - and I crossed the road when less than 3 minutes from home. I became seriously alarmed when he followed me , and eventually drew level with me. He then asked me for money, drew a knife and threatened to stab me. Shock and panic set in, I shouted at him and ran. He continued to pusue me - and in trying to escape I stumbled, fell to the ground and grazed my hands and left knee.I managed to recover and found refuge in the home of a neighbour whose front door I was fortunately able to open. My assailant had followed me into the front garden of my neighbour's property - but made no attempt to enter. My neighbour called the Police , and over the next two hours I provided a full statement. There was then intense Police activity in the area with as many as ten vehicles appearing. The good news is that there are indications that this guy has been apprehended - together with a possible accomplice.In the end , I have been very fortunate - though it was a very scary experience.
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Boris is also liberal on migration.Casino_Royale said:
On appearances a much bigger issue is he’s bald. On policy, the fact he’s so liberal on migration.
That’s what would hurt him.
Saj being bald is not a problem per se, but his head tends to glow in reflected light giving him an infantile appearance. They make cosmetics for that: see the BBC debate, for instance.0 -
People don't care what Boris is. They only care about what they want Boris to be.DecrepitJohnL said:
Boris is also liberal on migration.Casino_Royale said:
On appearances a much bigger issue is he’s bald. On policy, the fact he’s so liberal on migration.
That’s what would hurt him.
Saj being bald is not a problem per se, but his head tends to glow in reflected light giving him an infantile appearance. They make cosmetics for that: see the BBC debate, for instance.0 -
The "nutjobs".AlastairMeeks said:Exactly. The nutjobs adore the worst leader that the Conservative party has ever had, the one that took them to irrelevance in pursuit of a mad hobbyhorse.
It is your side of the party that slashed public finances across the north while handing over money in the bucket loads to the European Union and foreign regimes. Who split the party by warping what marriage, one of the most conservative institutions, means. It is your side of the party who wanted to conduct strikes on Syria and aid Islamist maniacs - you've some nerve to call the ERG nutjobs.
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There are not many Tory voters in Liverpool so I doubt he talks to that many, most tory leaning voters vote lib dem as some way of containing the Labour Party.Mysticrose said:
That's the sort of angry throwaway (trolling) remark you see more on the Guido Fawkes website than here, if I may say so. It seems to me there is a massive spectrum on this site which is great, but 'pissing away' is not really a helpful way to describe our internationally agreed foreign aid response and 'handing' the EU what amounts to our obligation under previously agreed terms and conditions is also a tad intemperate?Viceroy_of_Orange said:
By handing the EU £39bn and pissing away £9bn in Foreign Aid?Casino_Royale said:I don’t much care for his dabbles into politics but i am fairly glad he’s been controlling the public purse.
Interesting definition of financial prudence.
I think that rather illustrates Alastair's point though. There is a massive chasm between you/tory members and the rest of the country. IDS is as far removed from where the mainstream of this country sits as you can currently conceive.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
Not sure why you are so surprised. Osborne and Cameron stood for nothing other than GDP figures (and weren't even good at it) and IDS is at least somebody who says and votes for conservative ideas like national independence.AlastairMeeks said:That astounding survey that reported that IDS is one of Conservative members’ favourite post-war leaders tells you what you need to know about the state of the current Conservative party.
I have always liked IDS as have all the Tory voters I know.0 -
Allegedly gay? At the time, and probably still, that did not sit well with the tory world. I know he's married but those were the malicious rumours. Also rather 'foreign,' which I'm horrified to say it is manifestly obvious doesn't sit happily with some on the far right.Stark_Dawning said:Why did Portillo not storm it? He seems to have had all the right credentials - eurosceptic, Maggie’s endorsement. IDS at the time seemed to have very little to offer.
I've met him a few times and he's actually a really nice man. Once he lost that SAS nonsense he seemed genuinely reformed. His magnanimous losing speech in '97 rather took the stuffing out of the gloaters. Starts at 5'36 although it's worth seeing Stephen Twigg's smile
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVvWE6V9ulE
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Have another Sangria felix.felix said:
No but you are significantly less typical han most people including most Tory members - and most ordinary people anywhere.Roger said:
It would be interesting to work backwards and try to picture what the demographic looks like. It'll certainly look like nothing I've ever seen.AlastairMeeks said:That astounding survey that reported that IDS is one of Conservative members’ favourite post-war leaders tells you what you need to know about the state of the current Conservative party.
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Likely but if there is tactical voting, as seems likely there was for and then against Rory, I think the Boris surplus (plenty there including his ample waist) will aim to keep Gove out.Foxy said:
Yes, Javid has grown on me too as the best of a bad lot, but will be out today almost certainly.williamglenn said:
At the start of the contest I had fairly similar views of Hunt and Javid as high-achieving empty suits, but now I see Javid much more favourably than Hunt whose sense of entitlement seems almost hysterical.Casino_Royale said:I think the Saj is the nicest and most human candidate in this contest.
It’s a shame it took him so long to warm up. Hopefully, he’ll be a serious contender in future too.
They may opt to prop up Javid to eliminate Gove in the fourth ballot or wait for round five and vote for their chosen opponent - Hunt.0 -
These days that's a plus with Tory leaders.Casino_Royale said:
Because he was a piece of work.Stark_Dawning said:Why did Portillo not storm it? He seems to have had all the right credentials - eurosceptic, Maggie’s endorsement. IDS at the time seemed to have very little to offer.
0 -
Scott_P said:
A party committed to Brexit, any Brexit, at the cost of the national interest, is no longer the Conservative and Unionist Party.DavidL said:I don't see it quite like that. I think that the candidates (except Rory) were correct that the party faces an existential threat from the Brexit Party and the only solution is to deliver Brexit, any Brexit. Rory was more interested (in a classical Tory way now out of fashion) in the national interest rather than the party one. That view having been rejected Boris will do his best to deliver Brexit and will have an election committed to one if, as I expect, the current HoC continues its defiance. Some of what we might now call the Rory tendency will leave but I don't think the party will split.
It is the Brexit party. The MPs just have admitted it yet
They almost have.Scott_P said:
A party committed to Brexit, any Brexit, at the cost of the national interest, is no longer the Conservative and Unionist Party.DavidL said:I don't see it quite like that. I think that the candidates (except Rory) were correct that the party faces an existential threat from the Brexit Party and the only solution is to deliver Brexit, any Brexit. Rory was more interested (in a classical Tory way now out of fashion) in the national interest rather than the party one. That view having been rejected Boris will do his best to deliver Brexit and will have an election committed to one if, as I expect, the current HoC continues its defiance. Some of what we might now call the Rory tendency will leave but I don't think the party will split.
It is the Brexit party. The MPs just have admitted it yet0 -
Saj has grown through the process. Like most skills, it is a matter of practice, and you could see in the BBC debate that Boris was a bit ring-rusty because he'd boycotted the earlier debate and hustings.Foxy said:
Yes, Javid has grown on me too as the best of a bad lot, but will be out today almost certainly.williamglenn said:
At the start of the contest I had fairly similar views of Hunt and Javid as high-achieving empty suits, but now I see Javid much more favourably than Hunt whose sense of entitlement seems almost hysterical.Casino_Royale said:I think the Saj is the nicest and most human candidate in this contest.
It’s a shame it took him so long to warm up. Hopefully, he’ll be a serious contender in future too.
We will doubtless see the same phenomenon in the American debates and primaries: that well-known politicians with safe seats are no good at speeches and debates. If they are lucky, like Hillary Clinton, they will stay in the process long enough to improve. If not, like some of the stuffed-shirt Republicans steam-rollered by the Donald, they will go back to their states.0 -
Everything about your comment supports Alastair's assertion. If the term 'nut job' seems too offensive, which indeed it may, you should at least realise you are totally out of touch with the mainstream of Britain.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
The "nutjobs".AlastairMeeks said:Exactly. The nutjobs adore the worst leader that the Conservative party has ever had, the one that took them to irrelevance in pursuit of a mad hobbyhorse.
It is your side of the party that slashed public finances across the north while handing over money in the bucket loads to the European Union and foreign regimes. Who split the party by warping what marriage, one of the most conservative institutions, means. It is your side of the party who wanted to conduct strikes on Syria and aid Islamist maniacs - you've some nerve to call the ERG nutjobs.
And what's with the Enoch Powell avatar? Doesn't that rather say everything?0 -
Clearly less risky to do it in the fourth round, whilst the opposition vote is split three ways.JackW said:
Likely but if there is tactical voting, as seems likely there was for and then against Rory, I think the Boris surplus (plenty there including his ample waist) will aim to keep Gove out.Foxy said:
Yes, Javid has grown on me too as the best of a bad lot, but will be out today almost certainly.williamglenn said:
At the start of the contest I had fairly similar views of Hunt and Javid as high-achieving empty suits, but now I see Javid much more favourably than Hunt whose sense of entitlement seems almost hysterical.Casino_Royale said:I think the Saj is the nicest and most human candidate in this contest.
It’s a shame it took him so long to warm up. Hopefully, he’ll be a serious contender in future too.
They may opt to prop up Javid to eliminate Gove in the fourth ballot or wait for round five and vote for their chosen opponent - Hunt.0 -
We send the EU a net 9bn a year. We spend around 39bn on debt interest. What's the real drain on public finances?Viceroy_of_Orange said:
The "nutjobs".AlastairMeeks said:Exactly. The nutjobs adore the worst leader that the Conservative party has ever had, the one that took them to irrelevance in pursuit of a mad hobbyhorse.
It is your side of the party that slashed public finances across the north while handing over money in the bucket loads to the European Union and foreign regimes. Who split the party by warping what marriage, one of the most conservative institutions, means. It is your side of the party who wanted to conduct strikes on Syria and aid Islamist maniacs - you've some nerve to call the ERG nutjobs.
Boris's solution? Cut taxes...0 -
Cameron actually led the party to power and got to actually implement some things. Even if he was not a great conservative in your eyes he was still a more effective conservative than IDS.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
Not sure why you are so surprised. Osborne and Cameron stood for nothing other than GDP figures (and weren't even good at it) and IDS is at least somebody who says and votes for conservative ideas like national independence.AlastairMeeks said:That astounding survey that reported that IDS is one of Conservative members’ favourite post-war leaders tells you what you need to know about the state of the current Conservative party.
I have always liked IDS as have all the Tory voters I know.
Yes one shouldnt be nothing but a bland technocrat in pursuit of power, but what if one thinks an ideology is best for the country then the purest person pursuing that is no good if they never came close to implementing it..0 -
You seem to confuse this website and all the London liberals who are on here as the mainstream of modern Britain. It is anything but, as the referendum demonstrated. A reminder - around 50% of the public support the death penalty, something that just the very thought of would have many of you on here clutching your pearls.Mysticrose said:Everything about your comment supports Alastair's comment. If the term 'nut job' seems too offensive, which indeed it may, you should at least realise you are totally out of touch with the mainstream of Britain.
And what's with the Enoch Powell avatar? Doesn't that rather say everything?
The mainstream of Britain is:
- Pro Harsh punishment (Life meaning life, Death Penalty)
- Pro Nationalisation
- Anti Foreign Aid
- Anti EU
- Anti Immigration
I mean, just look at your comment on Enoch Powell. The public were in tune with him at the time, and people will tell you even now - in hushed tones - that he had a point. He's really not as controversial as you imagine.0 -
I think that was put out by the Portillo camp at the time to mask the fact he was a bit of a shit.Mysticrose said:
Allegedly gay? At the time, and probably still, that did not sit well with the tory world. I know he's married but those were the malicious rumours. Also rather 'foreign,' which I'm horrified to say it is manifestly obvious doesn't sit happily with some on the far right.Stark_Dawning said:Why did Portillo not storm it? He seems to have had all the right credentials - eurosceptic, Maggie’s endorsement. IDS at the time seemed to have very little to offer.
I've met him a few times and he's actually a really nice man. Once he lost that SAS nonsense he seemed genuinely reformed. His magnanimous losing speech in '97 rather took the stuffing out of the gloaters. Starts at 5'36 although it's worth seeing Stephen Twigg's smile0 -
Horrible - many sympathies, Justin.TheJezziah said:
Glad you are okay, (mostly) try not to let it affect your confidence going forward (easier said than done) you might be a bit more on edge for a while but that will subside. Messed up thing to happen.justin124 said:I am sorry to report that last night - shortly before 9.30 - I was the victim of attempted robbery via a knife attack. I was returning home from a church meeting when I became aware of being followed on the pavement by a young guy riding a bike. My intuition kicked in - perhaps on account of his riding so slowly behind me with no desire to overtake - and I crossed the road when less than 3 minutes from home. I became seriously alarmed when he followed me , and eventually drew level with me. He then asked me for money, drew a knife and threatened to stab me. Shock and panic set in, I shouted at him and ran. He continued to pusue me - and in trying to escape I stumbled, fell to the ground and grazed my hands and left knee.I managed to recover and found refuge in the home of a neighbour whose front door I was fortunately able to open. My assailant had followed me into the front garden of my neighbour's property - but made no attempt to enter. My neighbour called the Police , and over the next two hours I provided a full statement. There was then intense Police activity in the area with as many as ten vehicles appearing. The good news is that there are indications that this guy has been apprehended - together with a possible accomplice.In the end , I have been very fortunate - though it was a very scary experience.
A woman friend was assaulted a few months ago by a guy on a moped, who wrested her bag fromt her after a struggle. She found that she did feel shaky for some months afterwards (and a problem was that work colleagues etc. assumed she was fine after the first week or so), but it did wear off and she now walks home by the same route. The police response in your case sounds impressive, at least - well done for your fast reaction.1 -
I have been victim of attempted muggings twice. In first case I pushed attacker off and ran...in second case i turned on attacker and beat him. However I dont reccomend it.0
-
I'm not in the Conservative party. Why on earth would I want to be associated with those obsessed vandals who are taking the country apart piecemeal?Viceroy_of_Orange said:
The "nutjobs".AlastairMeeks said:Exactly. The nutjobs adore the worst leader that the Conservative party has ever had, the one that took them to irrelevance in pursuit of a mad hobbyhorse.
It is your side of the party that slashed public finances across the north while handing over money in the bucket loads to the European Union and foreign regimes. Who split the party by warping what marriage, one of the most conservative institutions, means. It is your side of the party who wanted to conduct strikes on Syria and aid Islamist maniacs - you've some nerve to call the ERG nutjobs.
On what I will dignify with the description of your specific policy points:
1) "slashing public finance in the north" - the essential problem is that the north is to a great extent a remittance economy. That is a generational problem. Could austerity have been handled better? Sure. But its impact is a symptom not the cause of the north's problems.
2) "handing over money in the bucketloads to the European Union" - you speak as if the EU were a charity rather than a shared endeavour of which we were (and still remain) part of, with aspects of which that Britain benefited hugely from, as all bar the most obsessive Leavers are now appreciating.
3) "and foreign regimes" - relatively small amounts of money can make a huge difference to peoples' lives. Is it all well-spent? No. Is the basic idea a bad one? No.
4) "warping marriage" - love is love. The state should recognise that. Now that gay marriage has been provided for, it is remarkably uncontroversial. Only the dinosaurs continue to fume.
5) "conduct strikes on Syria and aid Islamist maniacs" - I opposed these.
0 -
I'm not sure there's any risk. Boris is so far in front that Williamson can manipulate the numbers easily. Notable in the membership polling that Javid bombs badly too but his appearance on the members ballot would have the appearance of diversity.Jonathan said:
Clearly less risky to do it in the fourth round, whilst the opposition vote is split three ways.JackW said:
Likely but if there is tactical voting, as seems likely there was for and then against Rory, I think the Boris surplus (plenty there including his ample waist) will aim to keep Gove out.Foxy said:
Yes, Javid has grown on me too as the best of a bad lot, but will be out today almost certainly.williamglenn said:
At the start of the contest I had fairly similar views of Hunt and Javid as high-achieving empty suits, but now I see Javid much more favourably than Hunt whose sense of entitlement seems almost hysterical.Casino_Royale said:I think the Saj is the nicest and most human candidate in this contest.
It’s a shame it took him so long to warm up. Hopefully, he’ll be a serious contender in future too.
They may opt to prop up Javid to eliminate Gove in the fourth ballot or wait for round five and vote for their chosen opponent - Hunt.0 -
Isn't that a prerequisite for being a Tory MP?Casino_Royale said:
I think that was put out by the Portillo camp at the time to mask the fact he was a bit of a shit.Mysticrose said:
Allegedly gay? At the time, and probably still, that did not sit well with the tory world. I know he's married but those were the malicious rumours. Also rather 'foreign,' which I'm horrified to say it is manifestly obvious doesn't sit happily with some on the far right.Stark_Dawning said:Why did Portillo not storm it? He seems to have had all the right credentials - eurosceptic, Maggie’s endorsement. IDS at the time seemed to have very little to offer.
I've met him a few times and he's actually a really nice man. Once he lost that SAS nonsense he seemed genuinely reformed. His magnanimous losing speech in '97 rather took the stuffing out of the gloaters. Starts at 5'36 although it's worth seeing Stephen Twigg's smile0 -
So today's the day ...
0 -
Support for death penalty drops below 50% for the first timeViceroy_of_Orange said:
You seem to confuse this website and all the London liberals who are on here as the mainstream of modern Britain. It is anything but, as the referendum demonstrated. A reminder - around 50% of the public support the death penalty, something that just the very thought of would have many of you on here clutching your pearls.Mysticrose said:Everything about your comment supports Alastair's comment. If the term 'nut job' seems too offensive, which indeed it may, you should at least realise you are totally out of touch with the mainstream of Britain.
And what's with the Enoch Powell avatar? Doesn't that rather say everything?
The mainstream of Britain is:
- Pro Harsh punishment (Life meaning life, Death Penalty)
- Pro Nationalisation
- Anti Foreign Aid
- Anti EU
Boris supports foreign aid: Foreign aid to be shifted to support UK policy, Johnson says
And we all know that Britain is split down the middle on the EU.
As usual, you are talking utter bollocks.
How's Spain treating you today?0 -
Would you like a referendum on the death penalty? Let's test it.Gallowgate said:Support for death penalty drops below 50% for the first time
Boris supports foreign aid: Foreign aid to be shifted to support UK policy, Johnson says
And we all know that Britain is split down the middle on the EU.
As usual, you are talking utter bollocks.
How's Spain treating you today?
Boris is a social liberal.
Britain voted 52% to Leave.0 -
Sorry to hear about your dreadful experience. I hope they caught the perps. I'd imagine this is not the first time they have done such a thing.justin124 said:I am sorry to report that last night - shortly before 9.30 - I was the victim of attempted robbery via a knife attack. I was returning home from a church meeting when I became aware of being followed on the pavement by a young guy riding a bike. My intuition kicked in - perhaps on account of his riding so slowly behind me with no desire to overtake - and I crossed the road when less than 3 minutes from home. I became seriously alarmed when he followed me , and eventually drew level with me. He then asked me for money, drew a knife and threatened to stab me. Shock and panic set in, I shouted at him and ran. He continued to pusue me - and in trying to escape I stumbled, fell to the ground and grazed my hands and left knee.I managed to recover and found refuge in the home of a neighbour whose front door I was fortunately able to open. My assailant had followed me into the front garden of my neighbour's property - but made no attempt to enter. My neighbour called the Police , and over the next two hours I provided a full statement. There was then intense Police activity in the area with as many as ten vehicles appearing. The good news is that there are indications that this guy has been apprehended - together with a possible accomplice.In the end , I have been very fortunate - though it was a very scary experience.
0 -
The fact is that people don't understand the consequences of some of these policies. They might support the death penalty right until their family member gets falsely convicted and then an innocent person is murdered by the state.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
Would you like a referendum on the death penalty? Let's test it.Gallowgate said:Support for death penalty drops below 50% for the first time
Boris supports foreign aid: Foreign aid to be shifted to support UK policy, Johnson says
And we all know that Britain is split down the middle on the EU.
As usual, you are talking utter bollocks.
How's Spain treating you today?
Boris is a social liberal.
Britain voted 52% to Leave.
They don't understand that the purpose of foreign aid is to save money in the long run by trying to stabilise the world.
And clearly, as demonstrated by you, they don't understand our relationship with the EU in the slightest.0 -
@justin124 - Horrible experience. Pleased to hear you are broadly ok.
Cheer yourself up and read some of the PB archive !! ....
0 -
1) Slashing spending in the north while handing money abroad is unforgivable. If your family is skint, you do not buy presents for the neighbours. The people of this country should come first, always.AlastairMeeks said:I'm not in the Conservative party. Why on earth would I want to be associated with those obsessed vandals who are taking the country apart piecemeal?
On what I will dignify with the description of your specific policy points:
1) "slashing public finance in the north" - the essential problem is that the north is to a great extent a remittance economy. That is a generational problem. Could austerity have been handled better? Sure. But its impact is a symptom not the cause of the north's problems.
2) "handing over money in the bucketloads to the European Union" - you speak as if the EU were a charity rather than a shared endeavour of which we were (and still remain) part of, with aspects of which that Britain benefited hugely from, as all bar the most obsessive Leavers are now appreciating.
3) "and foreign regimes" - relatively small amounts of money can make a huge difference to peoples' lives. Is it all well-spent? No. Is the basic idea a bad one? No.
4) "warping marriage" - love is love. The state should recognise that. Now that gay marriage has been provided for, it is remarkably uncontroversial. Only the dinosaurs continue to fume.
5) "conduct strikes on Syria and aid Islamist maniacs" - I opposed these.
2) Hugely benefitted from.. you mean business owners benefitted from by undercutting the wages of the British working classes? And leaving whole sects of the population with no experience of training as a result? Despicable. Still, at least north Londoners had someone to pour their £3.50 coffee for a pittance.
3) See 1.
4) Love is Love sounds like it is from a Miss World speech. A vapid phrase with no meaning at all.
5) Cameron and Osborne didn't. Kudos to Ed Miliband for the one useful thing he did, which is stop those two trigger happy nutjobs from aiding jihadists.
0 -
Jo Swinson on Sky News dressed in yellow shocker ... No bar chart earrings though.0
-
the people dont understand all the consequences of electing their MPsGallowgate said:
The fact is that people don't understand the consequences of some of these policies. They might support the death penalty right until their family member gets falsely convicted and then an innocent person is murdered by the state.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
Would you like a referendum on the death penalty? Let's test it.Gallowgate said:Support for death penalty drops below 50% for the first time
Boris supports foreign aid: Foreign aid to be shifted to support UK policy, Johnson says
And we all know that Britain is split down the middle on the EU.
As usual, you are talking utter bollocks.
How's Spain treating you today?
Boris is a social liberal.
Britain voted 52% to Leave.
They don't understand that the purpose of foreign aid is to save money in the long run by trying to stabilise the world.
And clearly, as demonstrated by you, they don't understand our relationship with the EU in the slightest.
should we ban elections ?1 -
"The problem is that people would give the wrong answer"Gallowgate said:The fact is that people don't understand the consequences of some of these policies. They might support the death penalty right until their family member gets falsely convicted and then an innocent person is murdered by the state.
They don't understand that the purpose of foreign aid is to save money in the long run by trying to stabilise the world.
And clearly, as demonstrated by you, they don't understand our relationship with the EU in the slightest.
HA. And you say I am out of touch, you've just admitted the opposite.0 -
@Viceroy_of_Orange you do not speak for the working classes of the North from your middle-class "gap year" working in Spain.
Why don't you come to Northern Pride in Newcastle on 19th - 21st July and tell me that 'The North' does not think that love is love?0 -
No, but we elect people who's full time job becomes to understand the consequences of these decisions.Alanbrooke said:
the people dont understand all the consequences of electing their MPsGallowgate said:
The fact is that people don't understand the consequences of some of these policies. They might support the death penalty right until their family member gets falsely convicted and then an innocent person is murdered by the state.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
Would you like a referendum on the death penalty? Let's test it.Gallowgate said:Support for death penalty drops below 50% for the first time
Boris supports foreign aid: Foreign aid to be shifted to support UK policy, Johnson says
And we all know that Britain is split down the middle on the EU.
As usual, you are talking utter bollocks.
How's Spain treating you today?
Boris is a social liberal.
Britain voted 52% to Leave.
They don't understand that the purpose of foreign aid is to save money in the long run by trying to stabilise the world.
And clearly, as demonstrated by you, they don't understand our relationship with the EU in the slightest.
should we ban elections ?0 -
Very, very nasty Mr 124. Best wishes; you might find yourself shaken unexpectedly for a while.old_labour said:
Sorry to hear about your dreadful experience. I hope they caught the perps. I'd imagine this is not the first time they have done such a thing.justin124 said:I am sorry to report that last night - shortly before 9.30 - I was the victim of attempted robbery via a knife attack. I was returning home from a church meeting when I became aware of being followed on the pavement by a young guy riding a bike. My intuition kicked in - perhaps on account of his riding so slowly behind me with no desire to overtake - and I crossed the road when less than 3 minutes from home. I became seriously alarmed when he followed me , and eventually drew level with me. He then asked me for money, drew a knife and threatened to stab me. Shock and panic set in, I shouted at him and ran. He continued to pusue me - and in trying to escape I stumbled, fell to the ground and grazed my hands and left knee.I managed to recover and found refuge in the home of a neighbour whose front door I was fortunately able to open. My assailant had followed me into the front garden of my neighbour's property - but made no attempt to enter. My neighbour called the Police , and over the next two hours I provided a full statement. There was then intense Police activity in the area with as many as ten vehicles appearing. The good news is that there are indications that this guy has been apprehended - together with a possible accomplice.In the end , I have been very fortunate - though it was a very scary experience.
0 -
Hope it rains.Gallowgate said:@Viceroy_of_Orange you do not speak for the working classes of the North from your middle-class "gap year" working in Spain.
Why don't you come to Northern Pride in Newcastle on 19th - 21st July and tell me that 'The North' does not think that love is love?0 -
Is that the new Leave means Leave Campaign bus?Chris said:So today's the day ...
Sorry to hear @justin124 experience, it takes time to get over such experiences, and a certain amount of effort not to be too suspicious of fellow citizens.0 -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dkk9gvTmCXYViceroy_of_Orange said:
Hope it rains.Gallowgate said:@Viceroy_of_Orange you do not speak for the working classes of the North from your middle-class "gap year" working in Spain.
Why don't you come to Northern Pride in Newcastle on 19th - 21st July and tell me that 'The North' does not think that love is love?0 -
and then you spend 5 years saying half of those elected are stupid and dont know what they are doingGallowgate said:
No, but we elect people who's full time job becomes to understand the consequences of these decisions.Alanbrooke said:
the people dont understand all the consequences of electing their MPsGallowgate said:
The fact is that people don't understand the consequences of some of these policies. They might support the death penalty right until their family member gets falsely convicted and then an innocent person is murdered by the state.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
Would you like a referendum on the death penalty? Let's test it.Gallowgate said:Support for death penalty drops below 50% for the first time
Boris supports foreign aid: Foreign aid to be shifted to support UK policy, Johnson says
And we all know that Britain is split down the middle on the EU.
As usual, you are talking utter bollocks.
How's Spain treating you today?
Boris is a social liberal.
Britain voted 52% to Leave.
They don't understand that the purpose of foreign aid is to save money in the long run by trying to stabilise the world.
And clearly, as demonstrated by you, they don't understand our relationship with the EU in the slightest.
should we ban elections ?
Im afraid your just being silly with the people dont know the consequences argument in most cases people do. The bit you dont appear to accept is what might be in my best interest may be diametrically oppsed to what is in yours.
The crux of the Brexit vote is 52% of the country didnt see a system which was working in their interest and the 48% for who is was working didnt want to change. Run the numbers again in a referendum and that large dissatisfied electorate will still be there likewise the better off demographic who are afrad for their wallets.1 -
Already heard a few times, catchy.Gallowgate said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dkk9gvTmCXYViceroy_of_Orange said:
Hope it rains.Gallowgate said:@Viceroy_of_Orange you do not speak for the working classes of the North from your middle-class "gap year" working in Spain.
Why don't you come to Northern Pride in Newcastle on 19th - 21st July and tell me that 'The North' does not think that love is love?
0 -
Sky News - Rory Stewart will not endorse any candidate following his departure from the vote.0
-
I agree that in some cases what might be in your best interest may be opposed to what is in my best interest. However when someone thinks its in their best interest when it actually isn't, then what?Alanbrooke said:
and then you spend 5 years saying half of those elected are stupid and dont know what they are doingGallowgate said:
No, but we elect people who's full time job becomes to understand the consequences of these decisions.Alanbrooke said:
the people dont understand all the consequences of electing their MPsGallowgate said:
The fact is that people don't understand the consequences of some of these policies. They might support the death penalty right until their family member gets falsely convicted and then an innocent person is murdered by the state.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
Would you like a referendum on the death penalty? Let's test it.Gallowgate said:Support for death penalty drops below 50% for the first time
Boris supports foreign aid: Foreign aid to be shifted to support UK policy, Johnson says
And we all know that Britain is split down the middle on the EU.
As usual, you are talking utter bollocks.
How's Spain treating you today?
Boris is a social liberal.
Britain voted 52% to Leave.
They don't understand that the purpose of foreign aid is to save money in the long run by trying to stabilise the world.
And clearly, as demonstrated by you, they don't understand our relationship with the EU in the slightest.
should we ban elections ?
Im afraid your just being silly with the people dont know the consequences argument in most cases people do. The bit you dont appear to accept is what might be in my best interest may be diametrically oppsed to what is in yours.
The crux of the Brexit vote is 52% of the country didnt see a system which was working in their interest and the 48% for who is was working didnt want to change. Run the numbers again in a referendum and that large dissatisfied electorate will still be there likewise the better off demographic who are afrad for their wallets.
Maybe because they've been lied to and misled?
You seem to think that the only people in favour of the EU are well off...0 -
+1Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am so sorry to hear that Justin. I hope you recover from your ordeal quickly and your assailant is dealt with by the full force of the lawjustin124 said:I am sorry to report that last night - shortly before 9.30 - I was the victim of attempted robbery via a knife attack. I was returning home from a church meeting when I became aware of being followed on the pavement by a young guy riding a bike. My intuition kicked in - perhaps on account of his riding so slowly behind me with no desire to overtake - and I crossed the road when less than 3 minutes from home. I became seriously alarmed when he followed me , and eventually drew level with me. He then asked me for money, drew a knife and threatened to stab me. Shock and panic set in, I shouted at him and ran. He continued to pusue me - and in trying to escape I stumbled, fell to the ground and grazed my hands and left knee.I managed to recover and found refuge in the home of a neighbour whose front door I was fortunately able to open. My assailant had followed me into the front garden of my neighbour's property - but made no attempt to enter. My neighbour called the Police , and over the next two hours I provided a full statement. There was then intense Police activity in the area with as many as ten vehicles appearing. The good news is that there are indications that this guy has been apprehended - together with a possible accomplice.In the end , I have been very fortunate - though it was a very scary experience.
All the best
0 -
Both my Lib Dem councillor friends on Facebook are supporting Ed Davey interestingly. But I'm not sure how typical they are.0
-
My sense from here south of the river is that Davey is in the minority, even on his patch, although not by a landslidePulpstar said:Both my Lib Dem councillor friends on Facebook are supporting Ed Davey interestingly. But I'm not sure how typical they are.
0 -
InterestingJackW said:Sky News - Rory Stewart will not endorse any candidate following his departure from the vote.
In public. No doubt he will have discussed options with his supporters.0 -
Probably wise. Boris is most likely to win, so little point in putting himself out there.JackW said:Sky News - Rory Stewart will not endorse any candidate following his departure from the vote.
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"You're all shite!!!"JackW said:Sky News - Rory Stewart will not endorse any candidate following his departure from the vote.
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+1SquareRoot said:
+1Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am so sorry to hear that Justin. I hope you recover from your ordeal quickly and your assailant is dealt with by the full force of the lawjustin124 said:I am sorry to report that last night - shortly before 9.30 - I was the victim of attempted robbery via a knife attack. I was returning home from a church meeting when I became aware of being followed on the pavement by a young guy riding a bike. My intuition kicked in - perhaps on account of his riding so slowly behind me with no desire to overtake - and I crossed the road when less than 3 minutes from home. I became seriously alarmed when he followed me , and eventually drew level with me. He then asked me for money, drew a knife and threatened to stab me. Shock and panic set in, I shouted at him and ran. He continued to pusue me - and in trying to escape I stumbled, fell to the ground and grazed my hands and left knee.I managed to recover and found refuge in the home of a neighbour whose front door I was fortunately able to open. My assailant had followed me into the front garden of my neighbour's property - but made no attempt to enter. My neighbour called the Police , and over the next two hours I provided a full statement. There was then intense Police activity in the area with as many as ten vehicles appearing. The good news is that there are indications that this guy has been apprehended - together with a possible accomplice.In the end , I have been very fortunate - though it was a very scary experience.
All the best
I am happy that you are safe and healthy that is the main thing.0 -
No good news for the Saj.TheWhiteRabbit said:
InterestingJackW said:Sky News - Rory Stewart will not endorse any candidate following his departure from the vote.
In public. No doubt he will have discussed options with his supporters.
I expect his support will splinter.0 -
What, no thunderbolts?Viceroy_of_Orange said:
Hope it rains.Gallowgate said:@Viceroy_of_Orange you do not speak for the working classes of the North from your middle-class "gap year" working in Spain.
Why don't you come to Northern Pride in Newcastle on 19th - 21st July and tell me that 'The North' does not think that love is love?
And somebody said you didn't have "issues" ...0 -
Money is not being "handed abroad" to the EU. It's a large, complicated agreement under which it was judged that Britain benefited, and Britain paid what was in effect a membership subscription. Shortsighted fools concluded otherwise so Britain is leaving. But the money was not simply given away. I'm sure when you buy the Beano you expect to pay for it.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
1) Slashing spending in the north while handing money abroad is unforgivable. If your family is skint, you do not buy presents for the neighbours. The people of this country should come first, always.
And it's very questionable indeed whether Britain should prop up an internal remittance economy. It's bad for the recipients and it's bad for those who pay for it, whether or not they are family members. Ironically, the aid that Britain sends to the developing world is usually given with exactly that principle in mind. Perhaps it should apply the same principles internally too.
There is very little evidence that immigration suppresses wages as a general rule. But if it makes you feel better to hate on foreign baristas who work 200 miles from where you live, be my guest.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
2) Hugely benefitted from.. you mean business owners benefitted from by undercutting the wages of the British working classes? And leaving whole sects of the population with no experience of training as a result? Despicable. Still, at least north Londoners had someone to pour their £3.50 coffee for a pittance.
You're going to have to do better if you think you can explain how two men loving each other is different from a man and a woman loving each other, and why those relationships should be differently recognised. Love is love.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
4) Love is Love sounds like it is from a Miss World speech. A vapid phrase with no meaning at all.
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and now youre once again off on on conjecture and what ifsGallowgate said:
I agree that in some cases what might be in your best interest may be opposed to what is in my best interest. However when someone thinks its in their best interest when it actually isn't, then what?Alanbrooke said:
and then you spend 5 years saying half of those elected are stupid and dont know what they are doingGallowgate said:
No, but we elect people who's full time job becomes to understand the consequences of these decisions.Alanbrooke said:
the people dont understand all the consequences of electing their MPsGallowgate said:
The fact is that people d the state.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
Would you like a referendum on the death penalty? Let's test it.Gallowgate said:Support for death penalty drops below 50% for the first time
Boris supports foreign aid: Foreign aid to be shifted to support UK policy, Johnson says
And we all know that Britain is split down the middle on the EU.
As usual, you are talking utter bollocks.
How's Spain treating you today?
Boris is a social liberal.
Britain voted 52% to Leave.
They don't understand that the purpose of foreign aid is to save money in the long run by trying to stabilise the world.
And clearly, as demonstrated by you, they don't understand our relationship with the EU in the slightest.
should we ban elections ?
Im afraid your just bec who are afrad for their wallets.
Maybe because they've been lied to and misled?
You seem to think that the only people in favour of the EU are well off...
our system says those politicians you say have all the experience, do their pitch to the electorate and the people vote. The politicians are all economic with the truth and there simply isnt enough time or interest from voters to cover every issue in depth.
If the voters call it wrong then they live with the consequences and we get a chance to kick them out in five years time, Thats how it works.
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Or even posterity. Prosperity after a no deal on 31 October is very unlikely.Gallowgate said:https://twitter.com/StandUp4Brexit/status/1141615118742167552
Best keep this for prosperity.0 -
Is there any reason to think Javid wasn't boosted by Johnsonite proxy votes yesterday, in the same way that Rory evidently was the day before?Casino_Royale said:
No good news for the Saj.TheWhiteRabbit said:
InterestingJackW said:Sky News - Rory Stewart will not endorse any candidate following his departure from the vote.
In public. No doubt he will have discussed options with his supporters.
I expect his support will splinter.0 -
I'm pretty neutral about Jo Swinson. She was a well regarded minister in the Coalition but there's a strident edge to her that sometime grates and deflects from what she's actually saying.Dura_Ace said:
I quite like JS. You get the impression that she wouldn't go out of her way to fuck up the country which is no longer a given for the British political class.JackW said:Jo Swinson on Sky News dressed in yellow shocker ... No bar chart earrings though.
However Swinson gets a minus point, as do most LibDems, for the second vote nonsense. Save for nation building, as in the Scottish referendum, I firmly oppose referendum as a tool of government. If parliament cannot decide on important matters of the moment what are they doing there? I'd slash their salary by half for referring issues back.
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I don't agree that people can mislead and half-truth their way to victory in a referendum where the decision will be incredibly difficult to reverse. It's not like simply electing a different government in 5 years time.Alanbrooke said:If the voters call it wrong then they live with the consequences and we get a chance to kick them out in five years time, Thats how it works.
That is not liberal democracy. Democracy relies on informed and educated decisions to work properly. Otherwise its just tyranny of the mob.0 -
My bad.anothernick said:Or even posterity. Prosperity after a no deal on 31 October is very unlikely.
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No.Chris said:
Is there any reason to think Javid wasn't boosted by Johnsonite proxy votes yesterday, in the same way that Rory evidently was the day before?Casino_Royale said:
No good news for the Saj.TheWhiteRabbit said:
InterestingJackW said:Sky News - Rory Stewart will not endorse any candidate following his departure from the vote.
In public. No doubt he will have discussed options with his supporters.
I expect his support will splinter.0 -
Only women on radio 4 this morning! What an improvement! No non stop interruptions by the smarmy Robinson or creepy asides by Humphrys. One of them being Katya Adler helps but presenters letting their guests be heard is quite a departure0
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pah Jack you big softieJackW said:
I'm pretty neutral about Jo Swinson. She was a well regarded minister in the Coalition but there's a strident edge to her that sometime grates and deflects from what she's actually saying.Dura_Ace said:
I quite like JS. You get the impression that she wouldn't go out of her way to fuck up the country which is no longer a given for the British political class.JackW said:Jo Swinson on Sky News dressed in yellow shocker ... No bar chart earrings though.
However Swinson gets a minus point, as do most LibDems, for the second vote nonsense. Save for nation building, as in the Scottish referendum, I firmly oppose referendum as a tool of government. If parliament cannot decide on important matters of the moment what are they doing there? I'd slash their salary by half for referring issues back.
if MPs refer the vote back to the electorate they should face a life-time ban on standing for office as they have shown themselves incapable of doing their job.
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Except with referenda or so it seems. The electorate is not allowed to change its mind, according to some. Eventually it will, of courseAlanbrooke said:
and now youre once again off on on conjecture and what ifsGallowgate said:
I agree that in some cases what might be in your best interest may be opposed to what is in my best interest. However when someone thinks its in their best interest when it actually isn't, then what?Alanbrooke said:
and then you spend 5 years saying half of those elected are stupid and dont know what they are doingGallowgate said:
No, but we elect people who's full time job becomes to understand the consequences of these decisions.Alanbrooke said:
the people dont understand all the consequences of electing their MPsGallowgate said:
The fact is that people d the state.Viceroy_of_Orange said:
Would you like a referendum on the death penalty? Let's test it.Gallowgate said:Support for death penalty drops below 50% for the first time
Boris supports foreign aid: Foreign aid to be shifted to support UK policy, Johnson says
And we all know that Britain is split down the middle on the EU.
As usual, you are talking utter bollocks.
How's Spain treating you today?
Boris is a social liberal.
Britain voted 52% to Leave.
They don't understand that the purpose of foreign aid is to save money in the long run by trying to stabilise the world.
And clearly, as demonstrated by you, they don't understand our relationship with the EU in the slightest.
should we ban elections ?
Im afraid your just bec who are afrad for their wallets.
Maybe because they've been lied to and misled?
You seem to think that the only people in favour of the EU are well off...
our system says those politicians you say have all the experience, do their pitch to the electorate and the people vote. The politicians are all economic with the truth and there simply isnt enough time or interest from voters to cover every issue in depth.
If the voters call it wrong then they live with the consequences and we get a chance to kick them out in five years time, Thats how it works.0 -
I'm against referenda in general, but given the mess we're in a new one may be the only way out.JackW said:
I'm pretty neutral about Jo Swinson. She was a well regarded minister in the Coalition but there's a strident edge to her that sometime grates and deflects from what she's actually saying.Dura_Ace said:
I quite like JS. You get the impression that she wouldn't go out of her way to fuck up the country which is no longer a given for the British political class.JackW said:Jo Swinson on Sky News dressed in yellow shocker ... No bar chart earrings though.
However Swinson gets a minus point, as do most LibDems, for the second vote nonsense. Save for nation building, as in the Scottish referendum, I firmly oppose referendum as a tool of government. If parliament cannot decide on important matters of the moment what are they doing there? I'd slash their salary by half for referring issues back.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Prime Minister Boris deciding between a GE that he might look like losing and a new referendum where he stays as PM.0 -
Glad you are okjustin124 said:I am sorry to report that last night - shortly before 9.30 - I was the victim of attempted robbery via a knife attack. I was returning home from a church meeting when I became aware of being followed on the pavement by a young guy riding a bike. My intuition kicked in - perhaps on account of his riding so slowly behind me with no desire to overtake - and I crossed the road when less than 3 minutes from home. I became seriously alarmed when he followed me , and eventually drew level with me. He then asked me for money, drew a knife and threatened to stab me. Shock and panic set in, I shouted at him and ran. He continued to pusue me - and in trying to escape I stumbled, fell to the ground and grazed my hands and left knee.I managed to recover and found refuge in the home of a neighbour whose front door I was fortunately able to open. My assailant had followed me into the front garden of my neighbour's property - but made no attempt to enter. My neighbour called the Police , and over the next two hours I provided a full statement. There was then intense Police activity in the area with as many as ten vehicles appearing. The good news is that there are indications that this guy has been apprehended - together with a possible accomplice.In the end , I have been very fortunate - though it was a very scary experience.
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Thatcher refused to endorse Portillo over IDS, she only made an official endorsement once one of them faced Clarke, for IDSStark_Dawning said:Why did Portillo not storm it? He seems to have had all the right credentials - eurosceptic, Maggie’s endorsement. IDS at the time seemed to have very little to offer.
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