politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Meanwhile in that other leadership race…
Comments
-
Bill Clinton as well, and arguably Obama. Nonetheless it is probably just coincidence. Family break-up is very common now, even if bereavement will be down a touch since war became less fashionable.HYUFD said:
Boris was not orphaned at 11 though unlike Davey.YBarddCwsc said:" Ed Davey was on home turf, having been born and schooled in Nottinghamshire with a backstory of being orphaned at the age of 11..."
It is always interesting to see how a private education is finessed.
Let me try.
"Ruislip and Uxbridge is local ground for Boris Johnston. His constituency is just over 10 miles away from his Slough educational roots."
I see Raab also lost his father at age 12, interesting how some senior politicians lost at least one parent relatively young, May and Blair too. It may add to drive
There are other correlations. I've posted that many recent PMs have been sons or daughters of the Manse -- May, Brown, Thatcher (as good as). Someone pointed out a lot of women leaders have a STEM background -- Angela Merkel, Margaret Thatcher, Margaret Beckett. Someone else put in a claim for history graduates, though Jacob Rees-Mogg is the only one who springs to mind.
And all this is betting without Slough Grammar and Cowley Tech.0 -
There is currently no reason to vote for Corbyn. As things stand he’s not getting in. And even if he did he will follow a narrow agenda defined by Milne and co. He seems to only respect members when they agree with him.TheJezziah said:
A somewhat random diversion, I'm not sure he really does (attacking part) but I can see this getting into a very pointless argument about what x or y means...Jonathan said:
As Corbyn continues to attack his own party members and voters and look like a long shot for no10 there will be a role for the LibDems.TheJezziah said:
The problem is the people who call both the Tories and Labour crazy also disagree with each other. Once you get past the fans of other possible crazies according to some, UKIP, BXP, Lib Dems, Greens, PC and SNP...Jonathan said:
Labour clearly outbid the LibDems on the crazy stakes. Are the Tories about to outbid Labour? A vaguely sensible Lib Dem leader might well ‘clean up’ those who Jezza and Bozza don’t reach.TheJezziah said:
Always felt Tim Farron had the rug completely pulled from underneath him by Labour choosing Corbyn, if they had gone for a New Labour type he would have cleaned up.AlastairMeeks said:The Lib Dems are making the same mistake in 2019 that they made in 2015, picking their leader before they know who they’re up against.
You are left with a handful of voters, who mainly vote for much more minor crazies... like Change UK!
The 'sensible' majority would reject every single party for undefined other in a straight choice but not then not agree on who that other is.
On the long shot part it is by no means guaranteed but Labour stand a decent chance at 'winning' (if winning is defined as being the main governing party) arguably saying there will be a role for the Lib Dems is the longer shot?
I'm guessing betting odds would reflect that but this site knows that isn't a perfect reflection of actual chance, so there is value in your eyes in betting on that?
Sad and frustrated.0 -
Which is the story of the coalition - outwitting the Tories on much of the detail but letting them win the big picture.Foxy said:
Politics is about compromise, and I think Davey did well in government as one of the more effective ministers. His comments on fracking were interesting, in that he was under great pressure to allow a free for all by the Tories, so did permit it but with sufficient environmental and safety regulations that it is effectively a moratorium. I agree with him that now we should no longer be doing it because renewables are so cost effective and greener.Barnesian said:
I resigned from the LibDems because of the orangebookery during the coalition - pro austerity, private good, public bad etc, neoliberalism. I don't agree with that at all and I suspect the majority of LibDem members don't either. But they might not know of Davey's leanings that way. I hope he doesn't get the leadership.Foxy said:
Yes, it is hard to judge an audience at a party hustings as even these are not representative of the wider membership. Ed Davey was going down well though.Torby_Fennel said:I'll be voting for Ed Davey but, so far, I think I'm the only active member of my local branch to declare for him. All of my closest friends in the local party are backing Jo Swinson.
It was a very close call for me though and, truth be told, I'll be equally happy with either outcome.
Ed was one of the original Orange Bookers, and that was always something that I was in tune with. I think the Coalition years are getting distant enough for a more objective evaluation, and seen as better than the current blue and red menaces.
That said, I rather liked Jo Swinson too. She doesn't seem to have quite the same CV of achievement, but surely one has to allow for relative youth as well as maternity breaks? She has great potential, and could perhaps reach a wider audience.
Mentioning Brexit did get a rather pantomime response from the audience, but I was relieved to have a much wider discussion of issues facing the country.
All in all an enjoyable evening, and pleasing to mert @Icarus in fleshworld
Unless we LDs win a working majority, we will have to work with other parties, or remain in opposition. I wouldn't want to be in perpetual opposition as there are too many important things to do.
A busy day ahead, so will drop by much later.0 -
US position - still Biden's to lose. The danger of looking at any one poll is shown by the two contradictory SC polls, but nobody seems to be establshing themselves yet as the clear alternative. Still 7 months before it matters, though.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/0 -
The Order of the Garter is not a given for former Prime Ministers. Since WWII Macmillan, Douglas Home, Blair, Brown and Cameron have not received the Garter.Roger said:
Wr're talking knighthood not HEREDITARY baronetcies like the ThatchersCharles said:
Indeed. Tony wanted to focus his talents on making money for himself and his familyRoger said:Thanks. An informative header. I'm immediately prejudiced against Sir Ed Davey because of his acceptance of a poltical honour. It tells you rather more about the person's character than anything he might have done as an MP. John Redwood and Bill Cash's recent honours havent helped but I note Tony Blair whose achievments eclipse all of them is still plain 'Tony'.
Nothing wrong by with that, but he thought that public service in the Lords would restrict his ability to do so.
And would oblige him to identify his clients...
Macmillan received a hereditary earldom and Douglas Home was a Knight of the Thistle, hereditary peer and then life peer.0 -
At least 77% of germans would be offended by yourHYUFD said:
CDU + AfD + FDP =46%. Greens + SPD + Linke =46%.Alanbrooke said:away from Tory musical chairs, things are still fluid in Germany. Greens now heading the polls
Greens 27%
CDU 24%
AfD 13%
SPD 11%
FDP 9%
Linke 8%
The SPD appear to be heading for oblivion as the Greens nick their voters.
https://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/inland/habeck-haengt-kramp-karrenbauer-in-kanzlerfrage-ab-16238856.html
CDU + SPD = 35%.
Greens + CDU = 51% ie the only option now with a majority
"CDU + AfD + FDP"
calculation.
If the CDU and FDP had any interest at all in such a coalition, it would be the current government.
0 -
Of course - but he's quite capable of losing it from here.NickPalmer said:US position - still Biden's to lose. The danger of looking at any one poll is shown by the two contradictory SC polls, but nobody seems to be establshing themselves yet as the clear alternative. Still 7 months before it matters, though.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/
And it's only a week or so until the first debate, which is at the very least a chance for something to change significantly.0 -
Similarly he cited other achievements such as ... the abolition of compulsory retirement ages.
Which was another wealth transfer to the oldies.
How many Old Freds now continue to work on when they're well past their best usually at their peak earnings and without even having to pay NI.
While Middleaged Marys and Twentysomething Terrys do all the work but can't get promoted.0 -
Get lost loser, you are a whinging nutjob, and boring to boot. I get you have a chip on your shoulder about Scotland , but go pester someone else. Your constant repeat of the same crap is extremely boring.Nigel_Foremain said:
Oh dear, back to your pathetic insults, that typify the angry outlook I just referred to. How can you be so moronic to call someone a loser that you have never even met? It really is hilarious, if it were not so pathetic. Go and take a chill pill. You really ought to learn how to engage with an argument. The reality is that your type of nationalism is the type that should have been forced back under a rock a long time ago, but unfortunately it has been allowed out and has manufactured faux victimhood and manifested itself in tartan, which is a hell of a shame for an otherwise beautiful country.malcolmg said:
Get lost loser, back under your rock. You have at least learned something to fill that empty void.Nigel_Foremain said:
I had to look up Joanna Cherry, as she is that decent I had never heard of her, and, quelle surprise, she is a Scots Nat. I wonder whether she thinks everyone is crap. Nationalists generally think everyone is crap, except themselves. It is part of their angry outlook on life. I suspect if you ask a Brexit Party supporter they will think everyone except Nigel Farage is crap. Pretty pathetic outlook on life really, but hey, that's nationalism for you!malcolmg said:
Unfortunately Topping , they are all crap , hard to see any of them with a modicum of skill, principles or decency. I defy anyone to name me any decent current politician apart from Ken Clarke or Joanna Cherry.TOPPING said:
Malcolm as far as I can work out for the past few weeks you have determined that everything and everyone is "crap". Such anger and negativity can't be good for your health.malcolmg said:
The Lib Dems Rory, full of soundbites and as much use as a chocolate teapot, she is crap.Icarus said:Good to meet Dr Foxy at the hustings on Saturday. Agree with his comments though way the meeting was organised with questions submitted before hand and usually read by the chair didn't really challenge the candidates. A Question Time approach with comments from audience members might have been better.
Both candidates good. swung towards Davey during the meeting but am probably going to vote for Jo. Davey cant help being a white male but think there is merit in having a woman candidate and Jo seemed to have some passion which I hope she can bring to the fore in a general election.
Perhaps another cruise is due.-1 -
If you haven't noticed HYUFD has been Umunna's raa-raa boy for years.PClipp said:
Is that the official Tory line, Mr HY?HYUFD said:Davey looks the more heavyweight of the 2 but both seem C list compared to the A list Chuka and now he has joined the party this leadership contest mainly seeks to be a warm up for his succession
0 -
A left wing agenda is why he was put in place in the first place, if you wanted a wide agenda which included war with Iran and privatisation you were always going to be disappointed.Jonathan said:
There is currently no reason to vote for Corbyn. As things stand he’s not getting in. And even if he did he will follow a narrow agenda defined by Milne and co. He seems to only respect members when they agree with him.TheJezziah said:
A somewhat random diversion, I'm not sure he really does (attacking part) but I can see this getting into a very pointless argument about what x or y means...Jonathan said:
As Corbyn continues to attack his own party members and voters and look like a long shot for no10 there will be a role for the LibDems.TheJezziah said:
The problem is the people who call both the Tories and Labour crazy also disagree with each other. Once you get past the fans of other possible crazies according to some, UKIP, BXP, Lib Dems, Greens, PC and SNP...Jonathan said:TheJezziah said:AlastairMeeks said:
You are left with a handful of voters, who mainly vote for much more minor crazies... like Change UK!
The 'sensible' majority would reject every single party for undefined other in a straight choice but not then not agree on who that other is.
On the long shot part it is by no means guaranteed but Labour stand a decent chance at 'winning' (if winning is defined as being the main governing party) arguably saying there will be a role for the Lib Dems is the longer shot?
I'm guessing betting odds would reflect that but this site knows that isn't a perfect reflection of actual chance, so there is value in your eyes in betting on that?
Sad and frustrated.
What exactly do the members disagree with him on?
At the same time many people who don't like Corbyn on here were castigating him for not listening to Labour members polling showed most Labour members supported the current policy, that was a few months ago. If members views have changed since then they soon have the option to change it.
Also the whole Corbyn doesn't do what the members want would have more meaning if it didn't often come from people who wanted Corbyn gone from the leadership against the wishes of the membership.0 -
Pretendy Scots yes. Swinson was born and lived all her life in Bath, a carpetbagger. Gove and Blair were only Scottish in name , certainly not in any thoughts or actions, both self/London focussed and would sell out Scotland for a penny.MarqueeMark said:0 -
There is something in that. Chuka'a a big player but he needs be fully integrated into the LDs before he can think of leadership and we don't know yet how successful that will be.HYUFD said:Davey looks the more heavyweight of the 2 but both seem C list compared to the A list Chuka and now he has joined the party this leadership contest mainly seeks to be a warm up for his succession
0 -
We were talking politicians. They may have skills in other areas but are making a pigs ear of politics. Can you name more than a few decent currrent politicians.JosiasJessop said:
Having had a lifetime's experience of crap, and having had to change the little 'uns nappies until recently, I can assure PBes that there is a near-infinite range of crap.TheJezziah said:
If they are 'all' crap then crap is average and only the very crap are actually below average.malcolmg said:
Unfortunately Topping , they are all crap , hard to see any of them with a modicum of skill, principles or decency. I defy anyone to name me any decent current politician apart from Ken Clarke or Joanna Cherry.TOPPING said:
Malcolm as far as I can work out for the past few weeks you have determined that everything and everyone is "crap". Such anger and negativity can't be good for your health.malcolmg said:
The Lib Dems Rory, full of soundbites and as much use as a chocolate teapot, she is crap.Icarus said:Good to meet Dr Foxy at the hustings on Saturday. Agree with his comments though way the meeting was organised with questions submitted before hand and usually read by the chair didn't really challenge the candidates. A Question Time approach with comments from audience members might have been better.
Both candidates good. swung towards Davey during the meeting but am probably going to vote for Jo. Davey cant help being a white male but think there is merit in having a woman candidate and Jo seemed to have some passion which I hope she can bring to the fore in a general election.
Perhaps another cruise is due.
Some crap is nasty.
Some crap is ugly.
Some crap is literally a relief
Moving off the scatological, I'd argue that saying someone is 'crap' is rather one-dimensional: we are all crap at some things, and most of us are good at other things. I'd play a crap piano concerto, but I can (hopefully!) code reasonably well.
Blithely saying "He's crap!" without a "at (insert topic here)" clause probably reflects more on the person saying it than the target.
Except for Chris Grayling. He's 100% crap.
I remember the days when they were commanding figures , and at least had the decency to resign when they F*****d things up/were shown to be absolute CRAP.0 -
You mean like we spent the last few years asking "why didn't we pick Boris?", after May made it, essentially unchallenged, three years ago?Scott_P said:Assuming BoZo makes it, essentially unchallenged, the party are going to spend the next few years asking "Why didn't we pick Rory..."
0 -
In the end we can all only speak for ourselves and the people we know (who tend to be broadly aligned to us, in the nature of human friendships). I agree with you and would continue to vote for Corbyn if there was yet another leadership election (because I have come to feel that voting for who you want is the right thing to do, rather than making guesses about tactical advantage), but I think there's a middle block of members who are neither pro nor anti but simply want to win, and have individual pet theories on how to do it - "we just need to ..." I'm not sure there's a silver bullet for any leader while the scene is dominated by Brexit.TheJezziah said:
A left wing agenda is why he was put in place in the first place, if you wanted a wide agenda which included war with Iran and privatisation you were always going to be disappointed.
What exactly do the members disagree with him on?
At the same time many people who don't like Corbyn on here were castigating him for not listening to Labour members polling showed most Labour members supported the current policy, that was a few months ago. If members views have changed since then they soon have the option to change it.
Also the whole Corbyn doesn't do what the members want would have more meaning if it didn't often come from people who wanted Corbyn gone from the leadership against the wishes of the membership.1 -
You mean like that guy who runs the strongly pro-YES site from Bath, Stuart Campbell. Why don't you focus you wrath at him?malcolmg said:
Pretendy Scots yes. Swinson was born and lived all her life in Bath, a carpetbagger. Gove and Blair were only Scottish in name , certainly not in any thoughts or actions, both self/London focussed and would sell out Scotland for a penny.MarqueeMark said:0 -
Jezza and the gang seem to be stuck in a mode of attacking 'Blairites' rather than trying to win support. I have no problem with a left wing agenda whatsoever. Whether you like it or not you also need the 40%+ of the party that did not vote for him. So stop slagging them off. The last Labour government was a good thing, better than what went before and came afterwards.TheJezziah said:
A left wing agenda is why he was put in place in the first place, if you wanted a wide agenda which included war with Iran and privatisation you were always going to be disappointed.
What exactly do the members disagree with him on?
At the same time many people who don't like Corbyn on here were castigating him for not listening to Labour members polling showed most Labour members supported the current policy, that was a few months ago. If members views have changed since then they soon have the option to change it.
Also the whole Corbyn doesn't do what the members want would have more meaning if it didn't often come from people who wanted Corbyn gone from the leadership against the wishes of the membership.
Labour has always been an internationalist movement. Corbyn should stop trying to triangulate on Brexit. It would take political skill that he doesn't have and it goes against what his party wants.
That is why Corbyn is failing now.1 -
Nope - not whilst Labour continues haemmoraging support to them. And there is no sign of that stopping - there's yet another push to try and find a way of bypassing the Stalinists to get directly to Jezbollah and show him just how animated the membership is about his leave stance on Brexit.TheJezziah said:
Always felt Tim Farron had the rug completely pulled from underneath him by Labour choosing Corbyn, if they had gone for a New Labour type he would have cleaned up.AlastairMeeks said:The Lib Dems are making the same mistake in 2019 that they made in 2015, picking their leader before they know who they’re up against.
Does it make much of a difference this time though?
The problem being that any word put against Corbyn is spun by Milne as another coup attempt. I do wonder if anyone up to and including Abbott would be safe from having Skwarkbox attack them as a traitor if they say anything that Milne et Al disagree with0 -
Via Twitter - Paul Masterson, former Hancock supporter, endorses Rory Stewart.0
-
Dr Foxy, I’m relieved that the topic of Scottish independence was left as untouched as a pineapple-topped pizza. Unionist complacency is one of our strongest cards.
Thank you for an insightful article.0 -
Corbyn always runs into trouble on Brexit. Stop trying to triangulate and fudge. There is no third way. Choose. That would be a start.NickPalmer said:
In the end we can all only speak for ourselves and the people we know (who tend to be broadly aligned to us, in the nature of human friendships). I agree with you and would continue to vote for Corbyn if there was yet another leadership election (because I have come to feel that voting for who you want is the right thing to do, rather than making guesses about tactical advantage), but I think there's a middle block of members who are neither pro nor anti but simply want to win, and have individual pet theories on how to do it - "we just need to ..." I'm not sure there's a silver bullet for any leader while the scene is dominated by Brexit.
A so-called conviction politician with no conviction on the biggest issue of the day is not a good look. Utterly undermines what Corbyn is supposed to be about.0 -
What qualities do you see in Chuka?MikeSmithson said:
There is something in that. Chuka'a a big player but he needs be fully integrated into the LDs before he can think of leadership and we don't know yet how successful that will be.HYUFD said:Davey looks the more heavyweight of the 2 but both seem C list compared to the A list Chuka and now he has joined the party this leadership contest mainly seeks to be a warm up for his succession
I see someone indecisive, with bad judgement, unable to lead.0 -
Erm, according to Wikipedia this previously unheralded MP (with a t not an s) even looks a bit like Rory but more interestingly for pb was a pensions lawyer for Pinsent Masons.JackW said:Via Twitter - Paul Masterson, former Hancock supporter, endorses Rory Stewart.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Masterton0 -
Well said. Milne is killing Corbyn.RochdalePioneers said:
Nope - not whilst Labour continues haemmoraging support to them. And there is no sign of that stopping - there's yet another push to try and find a way of bypassing the Stalinists to get directly to Jezbollah and show him just how animated the membership is about his leave stance on Brexit.TheJezziah said:
Always felt Tim Farron had the rug completely pulled from underneath him by Labour choosing Corbyn, if they had gone for a New Labour type he would have cleaned up.AlastairMeeks said:The Lib Dems are making the same mistake in 2019 that they made in 2015, picking their leader before they know who they’re up against.
Does it make much of a difference this time though?
The problem being that any word put against Corbyn is spun by Milne as another coup attempt. I do wonder if anyone up to and including Abbott would be safe from having Skwarkbox attack them as a traitor if they say anything that Milne et Al disagree with0 -
Nice thread Dr Fox in Socks in Ox.
0 -
What part of "British Jobs for British Workers" was internationalist?Jonathan said:
Jezza and the gang seem to be stuck in a mode of attacking 'Blairites' rather than trying to win support. I have no problem with a left wing agenda whatsoever. Whether you like it or not you also need the 40%+ of the party that did not vote for him. So stop slagging them off. The last Labour government was a good thing, better than what went before and came afterwards.TheJezziah said:
A left wing agenda is why he was put in place in the first place, if you wanted a wide agenda which included war with Iran and privatisation you were always going to be disappointed.
What exactly do the members disagree with him on?
At the same time many people who don't like Corbyn on here were castigating him for not listening to Labour members polling showed most Labour members supported the current policy, that was a few months ago. If members views have changed since then they soon have the option to change it.
Also the whole Corbyn doesn't do what the members want would have more meaning if it didn't often come from people who wanted Corbyn gone from the leadership against the wishes of the membership.
Labour has always been an internationalist movement. Corbyn should stop trying to triangulate on Brexit. It would take political skill that he doesn't have and it goes against what his party wants.
That is why Corbyn is failing now.0 -
He's got a name a bit like Obama, he looks a bit like Obama, therefore he will be the British Obama.OblitusSumMe said:
What qualities do you see in Chuka?MikeSmithson said:
There is something in that. Chuka'a a big player but he needs be fully integrated into the LDs before he can think of leadership and we don't know yet how successful that will be.HYUFD said:Davey looks the more heavyweight of the 2 but both seem C list compared to the A list Chuka and now he has joined the party this leadership contest mainly seeks to be a warm up for his succession
I see someone indecisive, with bad judgement, unable to lead.
Supposedly.
He set up a new party like Macron therefore he will be the British Macron.
Supposedly.0 -
The party has been at war for ages, lets not pretend Corbyn started it or is even one of the main instigators. The blanket condemnation makes you no better than the other side TBH, tell me the specific incident, you may as well have a post from me whining about the Blairites being bad without referencing something specific. You are just the polar opposite of somebody whining about Blairites.Jonathan said:
Jezza and the gang seem to be stuck in a mode of attacking 'Blairites' rather than trying to win support. I have no problem with a left wing agenda whatsoever. Whether you like it or not you also need the 40%+ of the party that did not vote for him. So stop slagging them off. The last Labour government was a good thing, better than what went before and came afterwards.TheJezziah said:
A left wing agenda is why he was put in place in the first place, if you wanted a wide agenda which included war with Iran and privatisation you were always going to be disappointed.
What exactly do the members disagree with him on?
At the same time many people who don't like Corbyn on here were castigating him for not listening to Labour members polling showed most Labour members supported the current policy, that was a few months ago. If members views have changed since then they soon have the option to change it.
Also the whole Corbyn doesn't do what the members want would have more meaning if it didn't often come from people who wanted Corbyn gone from the leadership against the wishes of the membership.
Labour has always been an internationalist movement. Corbyn should stop trying to triangulate on Brexit. It would take political skill that he doesn't have and it goes against what his party wants.
That is why Corbyn is failing now.
If this particular complaint is about the Momentum video release then there are good arguments on both sides there, I did think it was a bit weird from Momentum TBH but hardly worth a whine from you anymore than some random Labour right winger doing something wrong is worth me condemning all Blairites.
It is comments like this that put me off a second referendum TBH, it seems half the Labour members calling a referendum can't do it without being complete assholes. It is probably what is losing the argument within the Labour party as well. If you want a second referendum then using it as a proxy to attack Corbyn just hurts that cause.
If you don't give a damn about a second referendum but want a useful weapon to attack Corbyn and ensure a Johnson government then carry on.
Edit: Also 40%+ not voting for him is misleading, there have been leavers and joiners since and the people who didn't actively vote against Corbyn (as in for Smith) can not be counted as anti Corbyn.0 -
Herald editorial ($): ‘PM Boris Johnson spells disaster for Davidson‘
“Ms Davidson has cut a confused and uncertain figure this year, changing her position backwards and forwards on Brexit...
She also seems powerless to rein in the excesses of the Scottish Tory contingent at Westminster who have come to be universally regarded as a collection of infants let loose on a museum with no parental guidance... their minimal contribution to the life of the current parliament means that most of them are destined to lose their seats at the next election. We know it and so do they.
With Boris Johnson as her boss Ms Davidson’s recent travails will increase. For the last two years she has enjoyed a good press from fawning political reporters who forgot their default position ought to be one where they keep a safe distance from politicians and retain a sense of healthy cynicism. At times it seems that the Scottish Tory leader is being interviewed by puppies.
... The problem for Ms Davidson is that he gives the impression not that he is disdainful of Scotland but that he doesn’t give a fig for anything that happens up here at all... He... longs for an uncomplicated, 18th century version of old England unencumbered by whingeing and grievance-obsessed Scots. When the next independence campaign starts Ms Davidson may find that her biggest problem will be devising a strategy to keep Boris Johnson’s presence in Scotland to a bare minimum.”0 -
ThanksMikeSmithson said:
Perceptive point.HYUFD said:
Boris was not orphaned at 11 though unlike Davey.YBarddCwsc said:" Ed Davey was on home turf, having been born and schooled in Nottinghamshire with a backstory of being orphaned at the age of 11..."
It is always interesting to see how a private education is finessed.
Let me try.
"Ruislip and Uxbridge is local ground for Boris Johnston. His constituency is just over 10 miles away from his Slough educational roots."
I see Raab also lost his father at age 12, interesting how some senior politicians lost at least one parent relatively young, May and Blair too. It may add to drive0 -
Yes, I know Paul reasonably well.DecrepitJohnL said:
Erm, according to Wikipedia this previously unheralded MP (with a t not an s) even looks a bit like Rory but more interestingly for pb was a pensions lawyer for Pinsent Masons.JackW said:Via Twitter - Paul Masterson, former Hancock supporter, endorses Rory Stewart.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Masterton
0 -
Psxman wrote a good book on politicians and what drives themDecrepitJohnL said:
Bill Clinton as well, and arguably Obama. Nonetheless it is probably just coincidence. Family break-up is very common now, even if bereavement will be down a touch since war became less fashionable.HYUFD said:
Boris was not orphaned at 11 though unlike Davey.YBarddCwsc said:" Ed Davey was on home turf, having been born and schooled in Nottinghamshire with a backstory of being orphaned at the age of 11..."
It is always interesting to see how a private education is finessed.
Let me try.
"Ruislip and Uxbridge is local ground for Boris Johnston. His constituency is just over 10 miles away from his Slough educational roots."
I see Raab also lost his father at age 12, interesting how some senior politicians lost at least one parent relatively young, May and Blair too. It may add to drive
There are other correlations. I've posted that many recent PMs have been sons or daughters of the Manse -- May, Brown, Thatcher (as good as). Someone pointed out a lot of women leaders have a STEM background -- Angela Merkel, Margaret Thatcher, Margaret Beckett. Someone else put in a claim for history graduates, though Jacob Rees-Mogg is the only one who springs to mind.
And all this is betting without Slough Grammar and Cowley Tech.0 -
He's a bit of an empty suit.OblitusSumMe said:
What qualities do you see in Chuka?MikeSmithson said:
There is something in that. Chuka'a a big player but he needs be fully integrated into the LDs before he can think of leadership and we don't know yet how successful that will be.HYUFD said:Davey looks the more heavyweight of the 2 but both seem C list compared to the A list Chuka and now he has joined the party this leadership contest mainly seeks to be a warm up for his succession
I see someone indecisive, with bad judgement, unable to lead.
HY assuring us he'll be next leader is just another of his usual ill-informed nonsense predictions.0 -
LOL@ " I have come to feel that voting for who you want is the right thing to do"NickPalmer said:
In the end we can all only speak for ourselves and the people we know (who tend to be broadly aligned to us, in the nature of human friendships). I agree with you and would continue to vote for Corbyn if there was yet another leadership election (because I have come to feel that voting for who you want is the right thing to do, rather than making guesses about tactical advantage), but I think there's a middle block of members who are neither pro nor anti but simply want to win, and have individual pet theories on how to do it - "we just need to ..." I'm not sure there's a silver bullet for any leader while the scene is dominated by Brexit.TheJezziah said:
A left wing agenda is why he was put in place in the first place, if you wanted a wide agenda which included war with Iran and privatisation you were always going to be disappointed.
What exactly do the members disagree with him on?
At the same time many people who don't like Corbyn on here were castigating him for not listening to Labour members polling showed most Labour members supported the current policy, that was a few months ago. If members views have changed since then they soon have the option to change it.
Also the whole Corbyn doesn't do what the members want would have more meaning if it didn't often come from people who wanted Corbyn gone from the leadership against the wishes of the membership.
I am glad all that time with New Labour wasn't wasted.0 -
Why is the AfD so anathema but the ex communist Links is not?eristdoof said:
At least 77% of germans would be offended by yourHYUFD said:
CDU + AfD + FDP =46%. Greens + SPD + Linke =46%.Alanbrooke said:away from Tory musical chairs, things are still fluid in Germany. Greens now heading the polls
Greens 27%
CDU 24%
AfD 13%
SPD 11%
FDP 9%
Linke 8%
The SPD appear to be heading for oblivion as the Greens nick their voters.
https://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/inland/habeck-haengt-kramp-karrenbauer-in-kanzlerfrage-ab-16238856.html
CDU + SPD = 35%.
Greens + CDU = 51% ie the only option now with a majority
"CDU + AfD + FDP"
calculation.
If the CDU and FDP had any interest at all in such a coalition, it would be the current government.
In any case those are the combined voteshare for the main right and left of centre blocks0 -
Yet Boris gets the best Tory voteshare in Scotland with Comres with Hunt actually doing worst North of the border. The Brexit Party is now neck and neck with the Scottish Tories and beat the Tories in Scotland in the European Parliament electionsStuartDickson said:Herald editorial ($): ‘PM Boris Johnson spells disaster for Davidson‘
“Ms Davidson has cut a confused and uncertain figure this year, changing her position backwards and forwards on Brexit...
She also seems powerless to rein in the excesses of the Scottish Tory contingent at Westminster who have come to be universally regarded as a collection of infants let loose on a museum with no parental guidance... their minimal contribution to the life of the current parliament means that most of them are destined to lose their seats at the next election. We know it and so do they.
With Boris Johnson as her boss Ms Davidson’s recent travails will increase. For the last two years she has enjoyed a good press from fawning political reporters who forgot their default position ought to be one where they keep a safe distance from politicians and retain a sense of healthy cynicism. At times it seems that the Scottish Tory leader is being interviewed by puppies.
... The problem for Ms Davidson is that he gives the impression not that he is disdainful of Scotland but that he doesn’t give a fig for anything that happens up here at all... He... longs for an uncomplicated, 18th century version of old England unencumbered by whingeing and grievance-obsessed Scots. When the next independence campaign starts Ms Davidson may find that her biggest problem will be devising a strategy to keep Boris Johnson’s presence in Scotland to a bare minimum.”0 -
And Michael Gove, born in Edinburgh to a 23 year old cookery demonstrator was adopted at four months old to a Labour-supporting Aberdonian family.HYUFD said:
ThanksMikeSmithson said:
Perceptive point.HYUFD said:
Boris was not orphaned at 11 though unlike Davey.YBarddCwsc said:" Ed Davey was on home turf, having been born and schooled in Nottinghamshire with a backstory of being orphaned at the age of 11..."
It is always interesting to see how a private education is finessed.
Let me try.
"Ruislip and Uxbridge is local ground for Boris Johnston. His constituency is just over 10 miles away from his Slough educational roots."
I see Raab also lost his father at age 12, interesting how some senior politicians lost at least one parent relatively young, May and Blair too. It may add to drive0 -
Is it well known exactly why Boris stood down in 2016, and I just didn't get the memo? If it is unknown it is the biggest and most important unknown in politics at the moment, so why is no one talking about it?0
-
The weird thing about this is that he actually *could* continue to triangulate on the *issue* of Brexit without looking particularly shifty; All Remainers are bothered about is the process. The number of Leave voters impressed by the caveat that although they keep voting for it in parliament, Labour's support for a referendum doesn't apply to a particular imaginary Labour version of Brexit if it comes up for a vote on the second Thursday of the month must be a little less than 1.Jonathan said:
Corbyn always runs into trouble on Brexit. Stop trying to triangulate and fudge. There is no third way. Choose. That would be a start.
A so-called conviction politician with no conviction on the biggest issue of the day is not a good look. Utterly undermines what Corbyn is supposed to be about.
Rights and wrongs of the issue aside, it's astonishingly terrible politics.0 -
I would not vote for him but I think he is the best potential leader the pro Remain centre left have available, the most telegenic and the most articulateanother_richard said:
If you haven't noticed HYUFD has been Umunna's raa-raa boy for years.PClipp said:
Is that the official Tory line, Mr HY?HYUFD said:Davey looks the more heavyweight of the 2 but both seem C list compared to the A list Chuka and now he has joined the party this leadership contest mainly seeks to be a warm up for his succession
0 -
He needs to win a seat as a LD, whether Streatham or TwickenhamMikeSmithson said:
There is something in that. Chuka'a a big player but he needs be fully integrated into the LDs before he can think of leadership and we don't know yet how successful that will be.HYUFD said:Davey looks the more heavyweight of the 2 but both seem C list compared to the A list Chuka and now he has joined the party this leadership contest mainly seeks to be a warm up for his succession
0 -
Yes, Gove tooStuartDickson said:
And Michael Gove, born in Edinburgh to a 23 year old cookery demonstrator was adopted at four months old to a Labour-supporting Aberdonian family.HYUFD said:
ThanksMikeSmithson said:
Perceptive point.HYUFD said:
Boris was not orphaned at 11 though unlike Davey.YBarddCwsc said:" Ed Davey was on home turf, having been born and schooled in Nottinghamshire with a backstory of being orphaned at the age of 11..."
It is always interesting to see how a private education is finessed.
Let me try.
"Ruislip and Uxbridge is local ground for Boris Johnston. His constituency is just over 10 miles away from his Slough educational roots."
I see Raab also lost his father at age 12, interesting how some senior politicians lost at least one parent relatively young, May and Blair too. It may add to drive0 -
You will not be surprised to hear that the prospect of the Brexit Party nicking half the Scottish Tory vote does not bother me in the slightest! 😆HYUFD said:
Yet Boris gets the best Tory voteshare in Scotland with Comres with Hunt actually doing worst North of the border. The Brexit Party is now neck and neck with the Scottish Tories and beat the Tories in Scotland in the European Parliament electionsStuartDickson said:Herald editorial ($): ‘PM Boris Johnson spells disaster for Davidson‘
“Ms Davidson has cut a confused and uncertain figure this year, changing her position backwards and forwards on Brexit...
She also seems powerless to rein in the excesses of the Scottish Tory contingent at Westminster who have come to be universally regarded as a collection of infants let loose on a museum with no parental guidance... their minimal contribution to the life of the current parliament means that most of them are destined to lose their seats at the next election. We know it and so do they.
With Boris Johnson as her boss Ms Davidson’s recent travails will increase. For the last two years she has enjoyed a good press from fawning political reporters who forgot their default position ought to be one where they keep a safe distance from politicians and retain a sense of healthy cynicism. At times it seems that the Scottish Tory leader is being interviewed by puppies.
... The problem for Ms Davidson is that he gives the impression not that he is disdainful of Scotland but that he doesn’t give a fig for anything that happens up here at all... He... longs for an uncomplicated, 18th century version of old England unencumbered by whingeing and grievance-obsessed Scots. When the next independence campaign starts Ms Davidson may find that her biggest problem will be devising a strategy to keep Boris Johnson’s presence in Scotland to a bare minimum.”
As to the rest of your post: you seem to have a bad case of Scottish Subsamplititis.0 -
A superficial look at the polling average graph on Wikipedia suggests that they are also taking votes from the CDU and Linke. So the questions are, how high can the Greens go and will the bubble burst before the next election?Alanbrooke said:away from Tory musical chairs, things are still fluid in Germany. Greens now heading the polls
Greens 27%
CDU 24%
AfD 13%
SPD 11%
FDP 9%
Linke 8%
The SPD appear to be heading for oblivion as the Greens nick their voters.
https://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/inland/habeck-haengt-kramp-karrenbauer-in-kanzlerfrage-ab-16238856.html0 -
0
-
Well, that's kind of out of no where. It's not as if the Herald was ever asking Davidson th tough questions.StuartDickson said:Herald editorial ($): ‘PM Boris Johnson spells disaster for Davidson‘
“Ms Davidson has cut a confused and uncertain figure this year, changing her position backwards and forwards on Brexit...
She also seems powerless to rein in the excesses of the Scottish Tory contingent at Westminster who have come to be universally regarded as a collection of infants let loose on a museum with no parental guidance... their minimal contribution to the life of the current parliament means that most of them are destined to lose their seats at the next election. We know it and so do they.
With Boris Johnson as her boss Ms Davidson’s recent travails will increase. For the last two years she has enjoyed a good press from fawning political reporters who forgot their default position ought to be one where they keep a safe distance from politicians and retain a sense of healthy cynicism. At times it seems that the Scottish Tory leader is being interviewed by puppies.
... The problem for Ms Davidson is that he gives the impression not that he is disdainful of Scotland but that he doesn’t give a fig for anything that happens up here at all... He... longs for an uncomplicated, 18th century version of old England unencumbered by whingeing and grievance-obsessed Scots. When the next independence campaign starts Ms Davidson may find that her biggest problem will be devising a strategy to keep Boris Johnson’s presence in Scotland to a bare minimum.”0 -
Raab corners the turnip vote
Dominic Raab’s Brexit negotiating strategy was so wrong-headed he was nicknamed “The Turnip” in Brussels, EU sources have claimed. Brussels sources said that Mr Raab was not the fully-briefed details man or tough negotiator meting out home truths to the EU he claims to be in his Tory leadership campaign speeches.
“The Turnip”, a play on raap, the Dutch word for the vegetable, allegedly "chickened out" when confronted by Michel Barnier over empty threats he made about the Irish border in a “very tense” meeting, according to the insiders.
Mr Raab has regularly mentioned the clash with the EU’s chief Brexit negotiator, first reported by The Telegraph, as proof that he has the guts to take on Brussels, where both Dutch and French are spoken.
“Raab never mentions that Barnier called his bluff,” one well-placed source said, “Barnier told Raab that he would tell the member states the UK wanted to blow up the negotiations and didn’t give a s*** about the Irish border.”
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/06/17/brussels-nicknamed-dominic-raab-turnip-disastrous-spell-brexit/0 -
This morning Rory Stewart goes for the Prime Ministerial look with a meeting with the President of Afghanistan .... fortunately he didn't have to walk there again.
https://twitter.com/rorystewartuk?lang=en&lang=en
0 -
I agree it's too early. Not least as there could be some more arriving from Change/Lab/Tory before long who'd be in the same bracket. All of them would need to convince members they were LibDems at heart. My hunch is a significant minority of LDs would welcome newcomers as active and competent foot soldiers, and maybe a frontbench job once they'd earned their stripes, but simply wouldn't consider them for the leadership in the short-medium term.HYUFD said:
He needs to win a seat as a LD, whether Streatham or TwickenhamMikeSmithson said:
There is something in that. Chuka'a a big player but he needs be fully integrated into the LDs before he can think of leadership and we don't know yet how successful that will be.HYUFD said:Davey looks the more heavyweight of the 2 but both seem C list compared to the A list Chuka and now he has joined the party this leadership contest mainly seeks to be a warm up for his succession
In Chuka's case too, it's worth remembering he bailed from the Lab leadership contest citing (IIRC) the level of intrusion into his personal life. Be interesting to see whether he's got over that.0 -
Fascinating though that they are all still in denial about the damage student debt is doing.AlastairMeeks said:As snark goes, this is of the first water:
https://twitter.com/DavidGauke/status/1140522306252488708
Has St Rory even mentioned it yet ?0 -
Yeah, it's a mystery why a country that has expended enormous efforts on expiating the sins of the Nazis for 70+ years should have problems with a party whose representatives have said Germany should have pride in its WWII military, that Germans don't want black Germans for neighbours and that she should move on from remembering the Holocaust.HYUFD said:
Why is the AfD so anathema but the ex communist Links is not?eristdoof said:
At least 77% of germans would be offended by yourHYUFD said:
CDU + AfD + FDP =46%. Greens + SPD + Linke =46%.Alanbrooke said:away from Tory musical chairs, things are still fluid in Germany. Greens now heading the polls
Greens 27%
CDU 24%
AfD 13%
SPD 11%
FDP 9%
Linke 8%
The SPD appear to be heading for oblivion as the Greens nick their voters.
https://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/inland/habeck-haengt-kramp-karrenbauer-in-kanzlerfrage-ab-16238856.html
CDU + SPD = 35%.
Greens + CDU = 51% ie the only option now with a majority
"CDU + AfD + FDP"
calculation.
If the CDU and FDP had any interest at all in such a coalition, it would be the current government.
In any case those are the combined voteshare for the main right and left of centre blocks1 -
Since Chuka also passed up the Tiggers for Change leadership job, my guess is no.Harris_Tweed said:
I agree it's too early. Not least as there could be some more arriving from Change/Lab/Tory before long who'd be in the same bracket. All of them would need to convince members they were LibDems at heart. My hunch is a significant minority of LDs would welcome newcomers as active and competent foot soldiers, and maybe a frontbench job once they'd earned their stripes, but simply wouldn't consider them for the leadership in the short-medium term.HYUFD said:
He needs to win a seat as a LD, whether Streatham or TwickenhamMikeSmithson said:
There is something in that. Chuka'a a big player but he needs be fully integrated into the LDs before he can think of leadership and we don't know yet how successful that will be.HYUFD said:Davey looks the more heavyweight of the 2 but both seem C list compared to the A list Chuka and now he has joined the party this leadership contest mainly seeks to be a warm up for his succession
In Chuka's case too, it's worth remembering he bailed from the Lab leadership contest citing (IIRC) the level of intrusion into his personal life. Be interesting to see whether he's got over that.0 -
You say that, yet oddly the country has not fallen into the abyss. If they were truly as crap as you claim, then the country would be a failed state. Instead we have record employment and a reasonably strong economy.malcolmg said:
We were talking politicians. They may have skills in other areas but are making a pigs ear of politics. Can you name more than a few decent currrent politicians.
I remember the days when they were commanding figures , and at least had the decency to resign when they F*****d things up/were shown to be absolute CRAP.
True, people are struggling; as they always have. True, we could do better. But despite all these 'crap' politicians, most people have reasonable lives.
Perhaps they're not quite as crap as you think?
As for naming some who are not crap: for the Tories I like Stewart (and have been mentioning him on here for years); for the Lib Dems, I quite like Moran - though she is untested, and Benn for Labour is quite good, even when I disagree with him. I haven't been following politics up your way enough to give an accurate assessment of SNP MPs.0 -
Ruth Davidson has yet to reimpose discipline which is desperately needed. Boris is not loved in Scotland and the brexit party scored one of its lowest results anywhere in Scotland. The tories were making ground in Scotland from a campaign for common sense and not grand standing politics. To try and outdo the snp on this is suicidal.Alistair said:
Well, that's kind of out of no where. It's not as if the Herald was ever asking Davidson th tough questions.StuartDickson said:Herald editorial ($): ‘PM Boris Johnson spells disaster for Davidson‘
“Ms Davidson has cut a confused and uncertain figure this year, changing her position backwards and forwards on Brexit...
She also seems powerless to rein in the excesses of the Scottish Tory contingent at Westminster who have come to be universally regarded as a collection of infants let loose on a museum with no parental guidance... their minimal contribution to the life of the current parliament means that most of them are destined to lose their seats at the next election. We know it and so do they.
With Boris Johnson as her boss Ms Davidson’s recent travails will increase. For the last two years she has enjoyed a good press from fawning political reporters who forgot their default position ought to be one where they keep a safe distance from politicians and retain a sense of healthy cynicism. At times it seems that the Scottish Tory leader is being interviewed by puppies.
... The problem for Ms Davidson is that he gives the impression not that he is disdainful of Scotland but that he doesn’t give a fig for anything that happens up here at all... He... longs for an uncomplicated, 18th century version of old England unencumbered by whingeing and grievance-obsessed Scots. When the next independence campaign starts Ms Davidson may find that her biggest problem will be devising a strategy to keep Boris Johnson’s presence in Scotland to a bare minimum.”0 -
Corbyn keeps telling us what he really thinks- he's voted against Europe forever, he's against capitalism as practiced by America and it's allies, he's absolutely set on leaving the EU. His problem is that the members who support him are largely dead set on not leaving regardless of their views on capitalism. He needs to keep them with him to keep the cancer process going but can't keep them and clearly state his opinion.edmundintokyo said:
The weird thing about this is that he actually *could* continue to triangulate on the *issue* of Brexit without looking particularly shifty; All Remainers are bothered about is the process. The number of Leave voters impressed by the caveat that although they keep voting for it in parliament, Labour's support for a referendum doesn't apply to a particular imaginary Labour version of Brexit if it comes up for a vote on the second Thursday of the month must be a little less than 1.Jonathan said:
Corbyn always runs into trouble on Brexit. Stop trying to triangulate and fudge. There is no third way. Choose. That would be a start.
A so-called conviction politician with no conviction on the biggest issue of the day is not a good look. Utterly undermines what Corbyn is supposed to be about.
Rights and wrongs of the issue aside, it's astonishingly terrible politics.
So instead they attack literally everyone and everything that is associated with Europe , and if that means trashing the reputation of the Labour government so much the better. Nothing persuades people to vote Labour better than attacking Labour those people who voted Labour and those people who think Labour made them better off (it definitely didn't apparently).
Is there another example of the current leadership of a major party so endlessly attacking the record of previous leaders and previous spells in government? If you want comprehensive conclusive evidence that the Corbyn cancer exists to kill Labour not to become a Labour government it's in its attacks on the last Labour government.
Angela Raynor - who personally owes most of who she is to the Blair government and says so frequently - should show us an example and resign from the Shadow Cabinet.0 -
Do you credit that to politicians? Politicians are partially responsible for how comunal money is spent not on how it's earned.JosiasJessop said:
You say that, yet oddly the country has not fallen into the abyss. If they were truly as crap as you claim, then the country would be a failed state. Instead we have record employment and a reasonably strong economy.malcolmg said:
We were talking politicians. They may have skills in other areas but are making a pigs ear of politics. Can you name more than a few decent currrent politicians.
I remember the days when they were commanding figures , and at least had the decency to resign when they F*****d things up/were shown to be absolute CRAP.
True, people are struggling; as they always have. True, we could do better. But despite all these 'crap' politicians, most people have reasonable lives.
Perhaps they're not quite as crap as you think?
As for naming some who are not crap: for the Tories I like Stewart (and have been mentioning him on here for years); for the Lib Dems, I quite like Moran - though she is untested, and Benn for Labour is quite good, even when I disagree with him. I haven't been following politics up your way enough to give an accurate assessment of SNP MPs.0 -
That was my thought too. The Herald leads the pack when it comes to fawning political reporters. If Ruthie loses her NUJ support she’s up the creek, paddleless.Alistair said:
Well, that's kind of out of nowhere. It's not as if the Herald was ever asking Davidson the tough questions.StuartDickson said:Herald editorial ($): ‘PM Boris Johnson spells disaster for Davidson‘
“Ms Davidson has cut a confused and uncertain figure this year, changing her position backwards and forwards on Brexit...
She also seems powerless to rein in the excesses of the Scottish Tory contingent at Westminster who have come to be universally regarded as a collection of infants let loose on a museum with no parental guidance... their minimal contribution to the life of the current parliament means that most of them are destined to lose their seats at the next election. We know it and so do they.
With Boris Johnson as her boss Ms Davidson’s recent travails will increase. For the last two years she has enjoyed a good press from fawning political reporters who forgot their default position ought to be one where they keep a safe distance from politicians and retain a sense of healthy cynicism. At times it seems that the Scottish Tory leader is being interviewed by puppies.
... The problem for Ms Davidson is that he gives the impression not that he is disdainful of Scotland but that he doesn’t give a fig for anything that happens up here at all... He... longs for an uncomplicated, 18th century version of old England unencumbered by whingeing and grievance-obsessed Scots. When the next independence campaign starts Ms Davidson may find that her biggest problem will be devising a strategy to keep Boris Johnson’s presence in Scotland to a bare minimum.”0 -
Yes and his attacks on May for not having a policy, despite her red lines and being in the middle of a negotiation felt hollow. Almost as hollow as those criticising the WA for not describing the future trade arrangement.Jonathan said:
Corbyn always runs into trouble on Brexit. Stop trying to triangulate and fudge. There is no third way. Choose. That would be a start.NickPalmer said:
In the end we can all only speak for ourselves and the people we know (who tend to be broadly aligned to us, in the nature of human friendships). I agree with you and would continue to vote for Corbyn if there was yet another leadership election (because I have come to feel that voting for who you want is the right thing to do, rather than making guesses about tactical advantage), but I think there's a middle block of members who are neither pro nor anti but simply want to win, and have individual pet theories on how to do it - "we just need to ..." I'm not sure there's a silver bullet for any leader while the scene is dominated by Brexit.
A so-called conviction politician with no conviction on the biggest issue of the day is not a good look. Utterly undermines what Corbyn is supposed to be about.
0 -
But he is also arrogant, remote and surrounded by a coterie of sycophants who keep away anyone who dares to question his bountiful wisdom. His relationship with colleagues is prickly and the closer you get to him the less attractive he seems.HYUFD said:
I would not vote for him but I think he is the best potential leader the pro Remain centre left have available, the most telegenic and the most articulateanother_richard said:
If you haven't noticed HYUFD has been Umunna's raa-raa boy for years.PClipp said:
Is that the official Tory line, Mr HY?HYUFD said:Davey looks the more heavyweight of the 2 but both seem C list compared to the A list Chuka and now he has joined the party this leadership contest mainly seeks to be a warm up for his succession
0 -
TheJezziah said:
A left wing agenda is why he was put in place in the first place, if you wanted a wide agenda which included war with Iran and privatisation you were always going to be disappointed.Jonathan said:
There is currently no reason to vote for Corbyn. As things stand he’s not getting in. And even if he did he will follow a narrow agenda defined by Milne and co. He seems to only respect members when they agree with him.TheJezziah said:
A somewhat random diversion, I'm not sure he really does (attacking part) but I can see this getting into a very pointless argument about what x or y means...Jonathan said:
As Corbyn continues to attack his own party members and voters and look like a long shot for no10 there will be a role for the LibDems.TheJezziah said:
The problem is the people who call both the Tories and Labour crazy also disagree with each other. Once you get past the fans of other possible crazies according to some, UKIP, BXP, Lib Dems, Greens, PC and SNP...Jonathan said:TheJezziah said:AlastairMeeks said:
You are left with a handful of voters, who mainly vote for much more minor crazies... like Change UK!
The 'sensible' majority would reject every single party for undefined other in a straight choice but not then not agree on who that other is.
On the long shot part it is by no means guaranteed but Labour stand a decent chance at 'winning' (if winning is defined as being the main governing party) arguably saying there will be a role for the Lib Dems is the longer shot?
I'm guessing betting odds would reflect that but this site knows that isn't a perfect reflection of actual chance, so there is value in your eyes in betting on that?
Sad and frustrated.
What exactly do the members disagree with him on?
At the same time many people who don't like Corbyn on here were castigating him for not listening to Labour members polling showed most Labour members supported the current policy, that was a few months ago. If members views have changed since then they soon have the option to change it.
Also the whole Corbyn doesn't do what the members want would have more meaning if it didn't often come from people who wanted Corbyn gone from the leadership against the wishes of the membership.
Are you seriously claiming that the Corbyn/Milne Brexit line is supported by the membership?0 -
And Batman and Spiderman. And Superman was orphaned and adopted.StuartDickson said:
And Michael Gove, born in Edinburgh to a 23 year old cookery demonstrator was adopted at four months old to a Labour-supporting Aberdonian family.HYUFD said:
ThanksMikeSmithson said:
Perceptive point.HYUFD said:
Boris was not orphaned at 11 though unlike Davey.YBarddCwsc said:" Ed Davey was on home turf, having been born and schooled in Nottinghamshire with a backstory of being orphaned at the age of 11..."
It is always interesting to see how a private education is finessed.
Let me try.
"Ruislip and Uxbridge is local ground for Boris Johnston. His constituency is just over 10 miles away from his Slough educational roots."
I see Raab also lost his father at age 12, interesting how some senior politicians lost at least one parent relatively young, May and Blair too. It may add to drive
Loss of parents is a superhero trope for a long time. Is this life mimicking art or vice versa?1 -
Common sense is in short supply within the current Conservative Party, and grandstanding politics seems to be the only kind of politics that interests them. Every single news report from Westminster is effectively a free Party Political Broadcast for the SNP. Keep up the good work chaps!hamiltonace said:
Ruth Davidson has yet to reimpose discipline which is desperately needed. Boris is not loved in Scotland and the brexit party scored one of its lowest results anywhere in Scotland. The tories were making ground in Scotland from a campaign for common sense and not grand standing politics. To try and outdo the snp on this is suicidal.Alistair said:
Well, that's kind of out of no where. It's not as if the Herald was ever asking Davidson th tough questions.StuartDickson said:Herald editorial ($): ‘PM Boris Johnson spells disaster for Davidson‘
“Ms Davidson has cut a confused and uncertain figure this year, changing her position backwards and forwards on Brexit...
She also seems powerless to rein in the excesses of the Scottish Tory contingent at Westminster who have come to be universally regarded as a collection of infants let loose on a museum with no parental guidance... their minimal contribution to the life of the current parliament means that most of them are destined to lose their seats at the next election. We know it and so do they.
With Boris Johnson as her boss Ms Davidson’s recent travails will increase. For the last two years she has enjoyed a good press from fawning political reporters who forgot their default position ought to be one where they keep a safe distance from politicians and retain a sense of healthy cynicism. At times it seems that the Scottish Tory leader is being interviewed by puppies.
... The problem for Ms Davidson is that he gives the impression not that he is disdainful of Scotland but that he doesn’t give a fig for anything that happens up here at all... He... longs for an uncomplicated, 18th century version of old England unencumbered by whingeing and grievance-obsessed Scots. When the next independence campaign starts Ms Davidson may find that her biggest problem will be devising a strategy to keep Boris Johnson’s presence in Scotland to a bare minimum.”0 -
It’s probably best when politicians do as little as possible. There is always a hypothetical better way of doing thing and politicians like to look busy, but a lot of the time changing things has unintended consequences. I remember that when Belgium had no Govenment for almost two years their economy outperformed the Eurozone.Roger said:
Do you credit that to politicians? Politicians are partially responsible for how comunal money is spent not on how it's earned.JosiasJessop said:
You say that, yet oddly the country has not fallen into the abyss. If they were truly as crap as you claim, then the country would be a failed state. Instead we have record employment and a reasonably strong economy.malcolmg said:
We were talking politicians. They may have skills in other areas but are making a pigs ear of politics. Can you name more than a few decent currrent politicians.
I remember the days when they were commanding figures , and at least had the decency to resign when they F*****d things up/were shown to be absolute CRAP.
True, people are struggling; as they always have. True, we could do better. But despite all these 'crap' politicians, most people have reasonable lives.
Perhaps they're not quite as crap as you think?
As for naming some who are not crap: for the Tories I like Stewart (and have been mentioning him on here for years); for the Lib Dems, I quite like Moran - though she is untested, and Benn for Labour is quite good, even when I disagree with him. I haven't been following politics up your way enough to give an accurate assessment of SNP MPs.
In this Im not blaming politicians either. The ‘publuc’ Clamour for action even when we don’t know if what has already been done is improving things,0 -
In that case Michael Gove is mimicking a lesser Salvador Dali effort.Philip_Thompson said:
And Batman and Spiderman. And Superman was orphaned and adopted.StuartDickson said:
And Michael Gove, born in Edinburgh to a 23 year old cookery demonstrator was adopted at four months old to a Labour-supporting Aberdonian family.HYUFD said:
ThanksMikeSmithson said:
Perceptive point.HYUFD said:
Boris was not orphaned at 11 though unlike Davey.YBarddCwsc said:" Ed Davey was on home turf, having been born and schooled in Nottinghamshire with a backstory of being orphaned at the age of 11..."
It is always interesting to see how a private education is finessed.
Let me try.
"Ruislip and Uxbridge is local ground for Boris Johnston. His constituency is just over 10 miles away from his Slough educational roots."
I see Raab also lost his father at age 12, interesting how some senior politicians lost at least one parent relatively young, May and Blair too. It may add to drive
Loss of parents is a superhero trope for a long time. Is this life mimicking art or vice versa?0 -
And Superman. Which Politician is which superhero?Philip_Thompson said:
And Batman and Spiderman. And Superman was orphaned and adopted.StuartDickson said:
And Michael Gove, born in Edinburgh to a 23 year old cookery demonstrator was adopted at four months old to a Labour-supporting Aberdonian family.HYUFD said:
ThanksMikeSmithson said:
Perceptive point.HYUFD said:
Boris was not orphaned at 11 though unlike Davey.YBarddCwsc said:" Ed Davey was on home turf, having been born and schooled in Nottinghamshire with a backstory of being orphaned at the age of 11..."
It is always interesting to see how a private education is finessed.
Let me try.
"Ruislip and Uxbridge is local ground for Boris Johnston. His constituency is just over 10 miles away from his Slough educational roots."
I see Raab also lost his father at age 12, interesting how some senior politicians lost at least one parent relatively young, May and Blair too. It may add to drive
Loss of parents is a superhero trope for a long time. Is this life mimicking art or vice versa?0 -
Hornchurch early 20thC and early 21st. To help solve the housing problem, surely the empty shops in every High St can be reverted to residential?
0 -
On topic, has there been any mention of how Evel might affect a party leader whose constituency is Scottish? If the LDs aspire to govern (however realistic that might be), a leader fronting up policies over which she has no real voting power in parly may not be a good look.
The likelihood of Westminster voting on any practical policy is a diaphanous prospect, I accept.0 -
Because many Germans have Ostalgie for the collective structures and communitarian principles of the DDR and the SED. Less so for the nazis.HYUFD said:
Why is the AfD so anathema but the ex communist Links is not?
In any case those are the combined voteshare for the main right and left of centre blocks
The AfD and Die Linke are not remotely comparable.
0 -
I credit it to them in part. They could really muck things up if they wanted, and yet generally they don't. There are many non-optimal kluges, and dfrequent mistakes, but generally they do a reasonably competent job - especially when party politics does not come into it.Roger said:
Do you credit that to politicians? Politicians are partially responsible for how comunal money is spent not on how it's earned.JosiasJessop said:
You say that, yet oddly the country has not fallen into the abyss. If they were truly as crap as you claim, then the country would be a failed state. Instead we have record employment and a reasonably strong economy.malcolmg said:
We were talking politicians. They may have skills in other areas but are making a pigs ear of politics. Can you name more than a few decent currrent politicians.
I remember the days when they were commanding figures , and at least had the decency to resign when they F*****d things up/were shown to be absolute CRAP.
True, people are struggling; as they always have. True, we could do better. But despite all these 'crap' politicians, most people have reasonable lives.
Perhaps they're not quite as crap as you think?
As for naming some who are not crap: for the Tories I like Stewart (and have been mentioning him on here for years); for the Lib Dems, I quite like Moran - though she is untested, and Benn for Labour is quite good, even when I disagree with him. I haven't been following politics up your way enough to give an accurate assessment of SNP MPs.
The civil service also deserves a great deal of credit.0 -
Rubbish. If the politicians shut down the whole TfL network tomorow, do you really think that this would have no effect on how money is earned?Roger said:
Do you credit that to politicians? Politicians are partially responsible for how comunal money is spent not on how it's earned.JosiasJessop said:
You say that, yet oddly the country has not fallen into the abyss. If they were truly as crap as you claim, then the country would be a failed state. Instead we have record employment and a reasonably strong economy.malcolmg said:
We were talking politicians. They may have skills in other areas but are making a pigs ear of politics. Can you name more than a few decent currrent politicians.
I remember the days when they were commanding figures , and at least had the decency to resign when they F*****d things up/were shown to be absolute CRAP.
True, people are struggling; as they always have. True, we could do better. But despite all these 'crap' politicians, most people have reasonable lives.
Perhaps they're not quite as crap as you think?
As for naming some who are not crap: for the Tories I like Stewart (and have been mentioning him on here for years); for the Lib Dems, I quite like Moran - though she is untested, and Benn for Labour is quite good, even when I disagree with him. I haven't been following politics up your way enough to give an accurate assessment of SNP MPs.
Even free marketeers belive that the government has an influence on how money is earned. They believe that state intervention means that less wealth in that area is created.
0 -
I don’t even think the members if left alone would have supported the current policy. As they feel a loyalty to Corbyn it allowed the Janus Brexit policy through. So in all probability the members supported the leadership and therefore the policy, but not something they believe in.OllyT said:TheJezziah said:
A left wing agenda is why he was put in place in the first place, if you wanted a wide agenda which included war with Iran and privatisation you were always going to be disappointed.Jonathan said:
There is currently no reason to vote for Corbyn. As things stand he’s not getting in. And even if he did he will follow a narrow agenda defined by Milne and co. He seems to only respect members when they agree with him.TheJezziah said:
A somewhat random diversion, I'm not sure he really does (attacking part) but I can see this getting into a very pointless argument about what x or y means...Jonathan said:
As Corbyn continues to attack his own party members and voters and look like a long shot for no10 there will be a role for the LibDems.TheJezziah said:Jonathan said:TheJezziah said:AlastairMeeks said:
On the long shot part it is by no means guaranteed but Labour stand a decent chance at 'winning' (if winning is defined as being the main governing party) arguably saying there will be a role for the Lib Dems is the longer shot?
I'm guessing betting odds would reflect that but this site knows that isn't a perfect reflection of actual chance, so there is value in your eyes in betting on that?
Sad and frustrated.
What exactly do the members disagree with him on?
At the same time many people who don't like Corbyn on here were castigating him for not listening to Labour members polling showed most Labour members supported the current policy, that was a few months ago. If members views have changed since then they soon have the option to change it.
Also the whole Corbyn doesn't do what the members want would have more meaning if it didn't often come from people who wanted Corbyn gone from the leadership against the wishes of the membership.
Are you seriously claiming that the Corbyn/Milne Brexit line is supported by the membership?0 -
That should be on a corbyn comment surelyanothernick said:
But he is also arrogant, remote and surrounded by a coterie of sycophants who keep away anyone who dares to question his bountiful wisdom. His relationship with colleagues is prickly and the closer you get to him the less attractive he seems.HYUFD said:
I would not vote for him but I think he is the best potential leader the pro Remain centre left have available, the most telegenic and the most articulateanother_richard said:
If you haven't noticed HYUFD has been Umunna's raa-raa boy for years.PClipp said:
Is that the official Tory line, Mr HY?HYUFD said:Davey looks the more heavyweight of the 2 but both seem C list compared to the A list Chuka and now he has joined the party this leadership contest mainly seeks to be a warm up for his succession
0 -
Please don’t ask a sensible question when they’re in Agincourt mode.Theuniondivvie said:On topic, has there been any mention of how Evel might affect a party leader whose constituency is Scottish? If the LDs aspire to govern (however realistic that might be), a leader fronting up policies over which she has no real voting power in parly may not be a good look.
The likelihood of Westminster voting on any practical policy is a diaphanous prospect, I accept.
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition;
And gentlemen in England now a-bed
Shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.0 -
Did he pass it up, or did Heidi and Anna make a few "what about the women and ex-Tories" noises when he started making assumptions?!DecrepitJohnL said:
Since Chuka also passed up the Tiggers for Change leadership job, my guess is no.Harris_Tweed said:
I agree it's too early. Not least as there could be some more arriving from Change/Lab/Tory before long who'd be in the same bracket. All of them would need to convince members they were LibDems at heart. My hunch is a significant minority of LDs would welcome newcomers as active and competent foot soldiers, and maybe a frontbench job once they'd earned their stripes, but simply wouldn't consider them for the leadership in the short-medium term.HYUFD said:
He needs to win a seat as a LD, whether Streatham or TwickenhamMikeSmithson said:
There is something in that. Chuka'a a big player but he needs be fully integrated into the LDs before he can think of leadership and we don't know yet how successful that will be.HYUFD said:Davey looks the more heavyweight of the 2 but both seem C list compared to the A list Chuka and now he has joined the party this leadership contest mainly seeks to be a warm up for his succession
In Chuka's case too, it's worth remembering he bailed from the Lab leadership contest citing (IIRC) the level of intrusion into his personal life. Be interesting to see whether he's got over that.0 -
Is it Corbyn or Milne? My impression is of a pattern where JC says something vaguely supportive of Remain/Referendum/Revoke but hours later after he's met the tankies in his private office, it is "clarified" that he meant the opposite.RochdalePioneers said:
Corbyn keeps telling us what he really thinks- he's voted against Europe forever, he's against capitalism as practiced by America and it's allies, he's absolutely set on leaving the EU. His problem is that the members who support him are largely dead set on not leaving regardless of their views on capitalism. He needs to keep them with him to keep the cancer process going but can't keep them and clearly state his opinion.
So instead they attack literally everyone and everything that is associated with Europe , and if that means trashing the reputation of the Labour government so much the better. Nothing persuades people to vote Labour better than attacking Labour those people who voted Labour and those people who think Labour made them better off (it definitely didn't apparently).
Is there another example of the current leadership of a major party so endlessly attacking the record of previous leaders and previous spells in government? If you want comprehensive conclusive evidence that the Corbyn cancer exists to kill Labour not to become a Labour government it's in its attacks on the last Labour government.
Angela Raynor - who personally owes most of who she is to the Blair government and says so frequently - should show us an example and resign from the Shadow Cabinet.0 -
"Hi, I just dropped by to see if you'd run into any British Conservative MPs, I'm in an election where I need to persuade them to vote for me but I can't find them anywhere, I've tried all the obvious places like shopping centres"JackW said:This morning Rory Stewart goes for the Prime Ministerial look with a meeting with the President of Afghanistan .... fortunately he didn't have to walk there again.
https://twitter.com/rorystewartuk?lang=en&lang=en2 -
I think that it very much depends on the situation. Where there is a crash, like 2008, decisive action by politicians is very important. Where there is a bubble, like 2006, action is equally important if more difficult. Where things are pottering along nicely the inclination should be to leave alone. That is certainly the line that our current Chancellor has adopted with, it must be said, some success.Nemtynakht said:
It’s probably best when politicians do as little as possible. There is always a hypothetical better way of doing thing and politicians like to look busy, but a lot of the time changing things has unintended consequences. I remember that when Belgium had no Govenment for almost two years their economy outperformed the Eurozone.Roger said:
Do you credit that to politicians? Politicians are partially responsible for how comunal money is spent not on how it's earned.JosiasJessop said:
You say that, yet oddly the country has not fallen into the abyss. If they were truly as crap as you claim, then the country would be a failed state. Instead we have record employment and a reasonably strong economy.malcolmg said:
We were talking politicians. They may have skills in other areas but are making a pigs ear of politics. Can you name more than a few decent currrent politicians.
I remember the days when they were commanding figures , and at least had the decency to resign when they F*****d things up/were shown to be absolute CRAP.
True, people are struggling; as they always have. True, we could do better. But despite all these 'crap' politicians, most people have reasonable lives.
Perhaps they're not quite as crap as you think?
As for naming some who are not crap: for the Tories I like Stewart (and have been mentioning him on here for years); for the Lib Dems, I quite like Moran - though she is untested, and Benn for Labour is quite good, even when I disagree with him. I haven't been following politics up your way enough to give an accurate assessment of SNP MPs.
In this Im not blaming politicians either. The ‘publuc’ Clamour for action even when we don’t know if what has already been done is improving things,
And yet, despite the economy puttering along quite well there are a series of large strategic issues that need to be addressed. Our poor infrastructure, excessive government and private debt, our trade deficit, productivity, education, weak investment, etc. What politicians should be doing is seeking to address these issues boosting our long term capacity. The problem is that the timescale for a return on these areas is well outwith a politician's imagination (ie beyond the next election) and the desire for gimmicks pretending to address the issues is much more attractive.1 -
Another Hancock supporter now supports Stewart .
That makes 3 new endorsements since yesterday . If his original support holds he’s now upto 22.
Still a long slog though to get to 33 votes .0 -
Morning all
I'll add my thanks to Dr Fox for the update and good to see @Icarus still with us,
I still haven't decided - there is the veritable cigarette paper between Jo and Ed on most issues. Both are tainted by the Coalition as some would see it but in a Party where three quarters of the membership joined after 2015 that doesn't have the resonance it seems to so with some (and notably the anti-LDs) on here.
Choosing Ed would mean the three parties would all be led by London MPs which sends a message of sorts to the rest of the UK and while that's not a good reason for choosing Jo it wouldn't be a bad reason.0 -
Mistake by Bangladesh choosing to bowl first. Gayle is less dangerous after 50 overs in the field.0
-
Planning permission may be required and such things can be hindered if the building is now listed, or in a conservation area. Often though it is more cost effective to covert to small office (use class a2)isam said:Hornchurch early 20thC and early 21st. To help solve the housing problem, surely the empty shops in every High St can be reverted to residential?
0 -
It is probably fair to say that mothe the SDP and CDU/CSU are at short term low points. The SPD leader has stepped down after the bad EP Elections. And the CSU has started to scratch at the 70 year sore again by suggesting that the CSU leader should be then next Chancellor-Candidate not Anne Kramp-Karrenbauer the new CDU leader. The press have enjoyed baiting the Union politicians over this.OblitusSumMe said:
A superficial look at the polling average graph on Wikipedia suggests that they are also taking votes from the CDU and Linke. So the questions are, how high can the Greens go and will the bubble burst before the next election?Alanbrooke said:away from Tory musical chairs, things are still fluid in Germany. Greens now heading the polls
Greens 27%
CDU 24%
AfD 13%
SPD 11%
FDP 9%
Linke 8%
The SPD appear to be heading for oblivion as the Greens nick their voters.
https://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/inland/habeck-haengt-kramp-karrenbauer-in-kanzlerfrage-ab-16238856.html
But I am getting the feeling that the greens are now "THE" party for the centre left, and are attracting some of the unadventurous traditional SPD-voters who just want the centre left to be strong.1 -
That is already happening both for cheap flats round here and for multi-million pound boltholes in central London.isam said:Hornchurch early 20thC and early 21st. To help solve the housing problem, surely the empty shops in every High St can be reverted to residential?
0 -
If he does make it, given Hunt only got 43 votes last time and hasn't picked up any new endorsements since, then it'll be a close fight for who the second MP is that goes to the members: Gove, Stewart or Hunt.nico67 said:Another Hancock supporter now supports Stewart .
That makes 3 new endorsements since yesterday . If his original support holds he’s now upto 22.
Still a long slog though to get to 33 votes .
I think he'll probably just do it, with Raab and Javid eliminated.0 -
-
Gove sounded like he was ready to throw it inCasino_Royale said:
If he does make it, given Hunt only got 43 votes last time and hasn't picked up any new endorsements since, then it'll be a close fight for who the second MP is that goes to the members: Gove, Stewart or Hunt.nico67 said:Another Hancock supporter now supports Stewart .
That makes 3 new endorsements since yesterday . If his original support holds he’s now upto 22.
Still a long slog though to get to 33 votes .
I think he'll probably just do it, with Raab and Javid eliminated.0 -
Of the various items on the Cammo was Crap crime sheet, Evel's quite a biggie. A pointless morsel thrown into the bottomless maw of the 'victimised' English electorate, just an appetiser for the main event. Announcing it on the day after the indy ref was extra special.StuartDickson said:
Please don’t ask a sensible question when they’re in Agincourt mode.Theuniondivvie said:On topic, has there been any mention of how Evel might affect a party leader whose constituency is Scottish? If the LDs aspire to govern (however realistic that might be), a leader fronting up policies over which she has no real voting power in parly may not be a good look.
The likelihood of Westminster voting on any practical policy is a diaphanous prospect, I accept.
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition;
And gentlemen in England now a-bed
Shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.0 -
There is an element of that, people who want to win and think x is needed to win (as mentioned by Nick earlier) so support a policy for that reason. If you asked them what they wanted in an ideal world it would probably be remain as that is what they mostly voted in 2016 but that isn't exactly the same as what they think Labour policy should be and whether they support it.Nemtynakht said:
I don’t even think the members if left alone would have supported the current policy. As they feel a loyalty to Corbyn it allowed the Janus Brexit policy through. So in all probability the members supported the leadership and therefore the policy, but not something they believe in.OllyT said:TheJezziah said:
A left wing agenda is why he was put in place in the first place, if you wanted a wide agenda which included war with Iran and privatisation you were always going to be disappointed.Jonathan said:
There is currently no reason to vote for Corbyn. As things stand he’s not getting in. And even if he did he will follow a narrow agenda defined by Milne and co. He seems to only respect members when they agree with him.TheJezziah said:Jonathan said:TheJezziah said:Jonathan said:TheJezziah said:AlastairMeeks said:
Sad and frustrated.
What exactly do the members disagree with him on?
At the same time many people who don't like Corbyn on here were castigating him for not listening to Labour members polling showed most Labour members supported the current policy, that was a few months ago. If members views have changed since then they soon have the option to change it.
Also the whole Corbyn doesn't do what the members want would have more meaning if it didn't often come from people who wanted Corbyn gone from the leadership against the wishes of the membership.
Are you seriously claiming that the Corbyn/Milne Brexit line is supported by the membership?0 -
We'll know more about Hancock when we see what job he managed to negotiate for himselfnico67 said:Another Hancock supporter now supports Stewart .
That makes 3 new endorsements since yesterday . If his original support holds he’s now upto 22.
Still a long slog though to get to 33 votes .0 -
Fans of Malcolm G?
“Brussels nicknamed Dominic Raab 'The Turnip' during his disastrous spell as Brexit secretary“
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/06/17/brussels-nicknamed-dominic-raab-turnip-disastrous-spell-brexit/0 -
Try sites with diggers, hi-viz vests and hard hats, Rory.edmundintokyo said:
"Hi, I just dropped by to see if you'd run into any British Conservative MPs, I'm in an election where I need to persuade them to vote for me but I can't find them anywhere, I've tried all the obvious places like shopping centres"JackW said:This morning Rory Stewart goes for the Prime Ministerial look with a meeting with the President of Afghanistan .... fortunately he didn't have to walk there again.
https://twitter.com/rorystewartuk?lang=en&lang=en
Or maybe a training range for tanks. Always good photo-op for an MP, sat atop a tank....0 -
I think that he is a bit desperate because Boris as leader could prove very problematic given their history. He is a politician who really thrives on doing things. Sitting on the back benches would not appeal at all. Objectively this party and government are far too short of talent to waste Gove but I'm not sure Boris will feel that way.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Gove sounded like he was ready to throw it inCasino_Royale said:
If he does make it, given Hunt only got 43 votes last time and hasn't picked up any new endorsements since, then it'll be a close fight for who the second MP is that goes to the members: Gove, Stewart or Hunt.nico67 said:Another Hancock supporter now supports Stewart .
That makes 3 new endorsements since yesterday . If his original support holds he’s now upto 22.
Still a long slog though to get to 33 votes .
I think he'll probably just do it, with Raab and Javid eliminated.
The logic of that position is to throw his support behind someone who might stop Boris. But who? Is there anyone who has a chance really and, if not, would this just make things even worse?0 -
He was very poor.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Gove sounded like he was ready to throw it inCasino_Royale said:
If he does make it, given Hunt only got 43 votes last time and hasn't picked up any new endorsements since, then it'll be a close fight for who the second MP is that goes to the members: Gove, Stewart or Hunt.nico67 said:Another Hancock supporter now supports Stewart .
That makes 3 new endorsements since yesterday . If his original support holds he’s now upto 22.
Still a long slog though to get to 33 votes .
I think he'll probably just do it, with Raab and Javid eliminated.0 -
See the Telegraph continues to give Boris a helping hand. While I don't think much of Raab, he is the only one where Boris can't use of his main messages to the membership of "vote for me or you won't have a Brexiteer"williamglenn said:Fans of Malcolm G?
“Brussels nicknamed Dominic Raab 'The Turnip' during his disastrous spell as Brexit secretary“
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/06/17/brussels-nicknamed-dominic-raab-turnip-disastrous-spell-brexit/0 -
Indeed. You cannot out-Brexit the Brexit Party.Scott_P said:This is Boris Johnson’s contest to lose and most of the leading figures in the Scottish party are convinced the Tory membership is about to make a hideous blunder. “He’s the SNP’s candidate of choice. That fact alone is a serious worry,” says one senior Tory MSP. And yes, it is true that the prospect of Prime Minister Johnson has SNP politicians breaking out all the heart emojis. Perhaps they are mistaken about this; perhaps Johnson can once again be a Heineken candidate, who refreshes the parts other candidates cannot reach, even in Scotland. But it is worth observing that neither the Scottish Tories nor the SNP think he is.
First things must come first, however. That means seeing off the mortal threat posed by Nigel Farage and the Brexit Party. Unionism, to the minor extent it’s ever a true concern for home counties Tories, is not a priority. The SNP is a danger to be confronted another day, if indeed it ever comes to that. However much Scottish Tories might despair of this, there is at least some logic here.
Unfortunately, the essential message sent by cuddling the Brexit Party is a simple one: “Nigel Farage is right, please don’t vote for him.” The Tories are in this mess partly because, in the end, successive prime ministers have preferred to pander to the Tory right than muster the courage to tell them they’re wrong.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/scotland/buckle-up-for-boris-itll-be-a-bumpy-ride-sf0bth09c0 -
We're all Malc fans now!williamglenn said:Fans of Malcolm G?
“Brussels nicknamed Dominic Raab 'The Turnip' during his disastrous spell as Brexit secretary“
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/06/17/brussels-nicknamed-dominic-raab-turnip-disastrous-spell-brexit/
0 -
I think Stewart and Raab are the ones Johnson would prefer not to face, Stewart because I think Johnson would find it difficult to deal with him personally (including as they are both Old Etonians), Raab because Boris cannot say that, if he doesn't win, a crypto-Remainer / continuity May will take overCasino_Royale said:
If he does make it, given Hunt only got 43 votes last time and hasn't picked up any new endorsements since, then it'll be a close fight for who the second MP is that goes to the members: Gove, Stewart or Hunt.nico67 said:Another Hancock supporter now supports Stewart .
That makes 3 new endorsements since yesterday . If his original support holds he’s now upto 22.
Still a long slog though to get to 33 votes .
I think he'll probably just do it, with Raab and Javid eliminated.
0 -
You can. You can actually Brexit.StuartDickson said:
Indeed. You cannot out-Brexit the Brexit Party.Scott_P said:This is Boris Johnson’s contest to lose and most of the leading figures in the Scottish party are convinced the Tory membership is about to make a hideous blunder. “He’s the SNP’s candidate of choice. That fact alone is a serious worry,” says one senior Tory MSP. And yes, it is true that the prospect of Prime Minister Johnson has SNP politicians breaking out all the heart emojis. Perhaps they are mistaken about this; perhaps Johnson can once again be a Heineken candidate, who refreshes the parts other candidates cannot reach, even in Scotland. But it is worth observing that neither the Scottish Tories nor the SNP think he is.
First things must come first, however. That means seeing off the mortal threat posed by Nigel Farage and the Brexit Party. Unionism, to the minor extent it’s ever a true concern for home counties Tories, is not a priority. The SNP is a danger to be confronted another day, if indeed it ever comes to that. However much Scottish Tories might despair of this, there is at least some logic here.
Unfortunately, the essential message sent by cuddling the Brexit Party is a simple one: “Nigel Farage is right, please don’t vote for him.” The Tories are in this mess partly because, in the end, successive prime ministers have preferred to pander to the Tory right than muster the courage to tell them they’re wrong.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/scotland/buckle-up-for-boris-itll-be-a-bumpy-ride-sf0bth09c
That is why UKIP died the first time. Once the Tories adopted the policy of leaving, UKIP became a rotting corpse that even Farage knew had no future. It is only when the Tories failed to Brexit and May attempted to deliver a pathetic "deal" with a backstop that would keep us bound to the EU that the Brexit Party arose.
If the Tories ensure we leave the EU, the Brexit Party dies.0
