If you are happy with 22% of Londoners not having English as their first language, then good for you. But plenty of other people are not really comfortable with it, and think that having communities separated by language doesn't make for a cohesive society.
Yes, doesn't bother me at all. I'm concerned about those who deliberately make no effort to learn English but the Polish and other Baltic tradesmen I've used know enough to get by and make their way and that's all that's needed.
I don't understand what "plenty of other people are not really comfortable with it" means - is this based on empirical evidence, a poll of ten friends of yours or just your own pre-conceptions and assumptions ?
I actually saw an advert at a set off traffic lights the other day in Leeds offering the services of a Polish plumber, so obviously they have found a niche in the market.
I've got a funny story about a friend who was seriously ill - sadly both with a mental breakdown and with a physical illness - who tried to negotiate Whitechapel tube station in a wheelchair, after 'escaping' from the hospital across the road. Anyone who knows the station can guess how well that turned out ...
I lived in Stepney Green for a year twenty years ago, and we walked from Mile End into central London a month or so ago. If anything, the Whitechapel area has improved. For one thing, there's no longer second-hand white goods being sold on the pavement near the Blind Beggar.
And I'm being serious. It has improved massively. For one thing, the white (English) thugs seem to have disappeared, and so has the ANL graffiti ;-)
Youre basing this fantastic change on one visit?
Nope, been back there many times over the years, for instance to visit the fantastic Whitechapel art gallery.
And believe me, it appears to have improved. I'm talking in the last 21 years. How long have you known that area?
I have been going there regularly for the last ten years and it gets worse each time I go
I've got a funny story about a friend who was seriously ill - sadly both with a mental breakdown and with a physical illness - who tried to negotiate Whitechapel tube station in a wheelchair, after 'escaping' from the hospital across the road. Anyone who knows the station can guess how well that turned out ...
I lived in Stepney Green for a year twenty years ago, and we walked from Mile End into central London a month or so ago. If anything, the Whitechapel area has improved. For one thing, there's no longer second-hand white goods being sold on the pavement near the Blind Beggar.
And I'm being serious. It has improved massively. For one thing, the white (English) thugs seem to have disappeared, and so has the ANL graffiti ;-)
Youre basing this fantastic change on one visit?
Nope, been back there many times over the years, for instance to visit the fantastic Whitechapel art gallery.
And believe me, it appears to have improved. I'm talking in the last 21 years. How long have you known that area?
I have been going there regularly for the last ten years and it gets worse each time I go
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder....as the saying goes.
I've got a funny story about a friend who was seriously ill - sadly both with a mental breakdown and with a physical illness - who tried to negotiate Whitechapel tube station in a wheelchair, after 'escaping' from the hospital across the road. Anyone who knows the station can guess how well that turned out ...
I lived in Stepney Green for a year twenty years ago, and we walked from Mile End into central London a month or so ago. If anything, the Whitechapel area has improved. For one thing, there's no longer second-hand white goods being sold on the pavement near the Blind Beggar.
And I'm being serious. It has improved massively. For one thing, the white (English) thugs seem to have disappeared, and so has the ANL graffiti ;-)
Youre basing this fantastic change on one visit?
Nope, been back there many times over the years, for instance to visit the fantastic Whitechapel art gallery.
And believe me, it appears to have improved. I'm talking in the last 21 years. How long have you known that area?
I have been going there regularly for the last ten years and it gets worse each time I go
Whitechapel is streets ahead of what it was like even 10 years ago.
And isan's friend has every right to hate the District line if people are taking on the tube. The language is entirely irrelevant. Fortunately that's one rule that almost all immigrants learn instantly.
I've got a funny story about a friend who was seriously ill - sadly both with a mental breakdown and with a physical illness - who tried to negotiate Whitechapel tube station in a wheelchair, after 'escaping' from the hospital across the road. Anyone who knows the station can guess how well that turned out ...
I lived in Stepney Green for a year twenty years ago, and we walked from Mile End into central London a month or so ago. If anything, the Whitechapel area has improved. For one thing, there's no longer second-hand white goods being sold on the pavement near the Blind Beggar.
And I'm being serious. It has improved massively. For one thing, the white (English) thugs seem to have disappeared, and so has the ANL graffiti ;-)
Youre basing this fantastic change on one visit?
Nope, been back there many times over the years, for instance to visit the fantastic Whitechapel art gallery.
And believe me, it appears to have improved. I'm talking in the last 21 years. How long have you known that area?
I have been going there regularly for the last ten years and it gets worse each time I go
I think people with speech defects (e.g. me) should be forced to leave the country because they might fail to be understood when talking on a tube train.
I think people with speech defects (e.g. me) should be forced to leave the country because they might fail to be understood when talking on a tube train.
Strict RP is a must for everyone!
Two problems there JJ. Firstly, if someone mishears you, you could be mistaken as a foreigner and then deported to a country who's language would not be your first, and then the whole problems starts again.
Secondly, do we then have to place people with speech defects on an island by themselves, and how bloody big would this island have to be?
I've got a funny story about a friend who was seriously ill - sadly both with a mental breakdown and with a physical illness - who tried to negotiate Whitechapel tube station in a wheelchair, after 'escaping' from the hospital across the road. Anyone who knows the station can guess how well that turned out ...
I lived in Stepney Green for a year twenty years ago, and we walked from Mile End into central London a month or so ago. If anything, the Whitechapel area has improved. For one thing, there's no longer second-hand white goods being sold on the pavement near the Blind Beggar.
And I'm being serious. It has improved massively. For one thing, the white (English) thugs seem to have disappeared, and so has the ANL graffiti ;-)
Youre basing this fantastic change on one visit?
Nope, been back there many times over the years, for instance to visit the fantastic Whitechapel art gallery.
And believe me, it appears to have improved. I'm talking in the last 21 years. How long have you known that area?
I have been going there regularly for the last ten years and it gets worse each time I go
I've got a funny story about a friend who was seriously ill - sadly both with a mental breakdown and with a physical illness - who tried to negotiate Whitechapel tube station in a wheelchair, after 'escaping' from the hospital across the road. Anyone who knows the station can guess how well that turned out ...
I lived in Stepney Green for a year twenty years ago, and we walked from Mile End into central London a month or so ago. If anything, the Whitechapel area has improved. For one thing, there's no longer second-hand white goods being sold on the pavement near the Blind Beggar.
And I'm being serious. It has improved massively. For one thing, the white (English) thugs seem to have disappeared, and so has the ANL graffiti ;-)
Youre basing this fantastic change on one visit?
Nope, been back there many times over the years, for instance to visit the fantastic Whitechapel art gallery.
And believe me, it appears to have improved. I'm talking in the last 21 years. How long have you known that area?
I have been going there regularly for the last ten years and it gets worse each time I go
How? What's been getting worse?
The walk from the station up to Vallance Road, the market is like a third world country, quite scary actually and I am a big bloke.
A noticeably large additional number of Russian military have landed in the Crimea. Not only the numbers, but the units type. They are some of the better operators.
The operation at the airports last night was Russian Special Ops guys who came in earlier this week.
I've got a funny story about a friend who was seriously ill - sadly both with a mental breakdown and with a physical illness - who tried to negotiate Whitechapel tube station in a wheelchair, after 'escaping' from the hospital across the road. Anyone who knows the station can guess how well that turned out ...
I lived in Stepney Green for a year twenty years ago, and we walked from Mile End into central London a month or so ago. If anything, the Whitechapel area has improved. For one thing, there's no longer second-hand white goods being sold on the pavement near the Blind Beggar.
And I'm being serious. It has improved massively. For one thing, the white (English) thugs seem to have disappeared, and so has the ANL graffiti ;-)
Youre basing this fantastic change on one visit?
Nope, been back there many times over the years, for instance to visit the fantastic Whitechapel art gallery.
And believe me, it appears to have improved. I'm talking in the last 21 years. How long have you known that area?
I have been going there regularly for the last ten years and it gets worse each time I go
I think people with speech defects (e.g. me) should be forced to leave the country because they might fail to be understood when talking on a tube train.
Strict RP is a must for everyone!
Two problems there JJ. Firstly, if someone mishears you, you could be mistaken as a foreigner and then deported to a country who's language would not be your first, and then the whole problems starts again.
Secondly, do we then have to place people with speech defects on an island by themselves, and how bloody big would this island have to be?
I can't say the size, but for my (admittedly slight) speech defect the island would be very wound and wugged with lots of wabbits and weindeers.
The forces turning into the Crimea in the last week far larger than that required to bluff and make noise. Therefore you can reasonably conclude that he intends to use it.
Remarkably no sign of the leader of the free world.
I've got a funny story about a friend who was seriously ill - sadly both with a mental breakdown and with a physical illness - who tried to negotiate Whitechapel tube station in a wheelchair, after 'escaping' from the hospital across the road. Anyone who knows the station can guess how well that turned out ...
I lived in Stepney Green for a year twenty years ago, and we walked from Mile End into central London a month or so ago. If anything, the Whitechapel area has improved. For one thing, there's no longer second-hand white goods being sold on the pavement near the Blind Beggar.
And I'm being serious. It has improved massively. For one thing, the white (English) thugs seem to have disappeared, and so has the ANL graffiti ;-)
Youre basing this fantastic change on one visit?
Nope, been back there many times over the years, for instance to visit the fantastic Whitechapel art gallery.
And believe me, it appears to have improved. I'm talking in the last 21 years. How long have you known that area?
I have been going there regularly for the last ten years and it gets worse each time I go
How? What's been getting worse?
The walk from the station up to Vallance Road, the market is like a third world country, quite scary actually and I am a big bloke.
Yeah, I bet Vallance Road was much less scary for a big bloke when the Kray's lived on it.
Nigel Farage has suggested he would be open to the possiblity of a coalition with Labour if Ed Miliband pledged to hold a referendum on the European Union.
There are agreements regarding the territorial status of Ukraine that the US and other major European nations have signed off on.
What is less well known is that there are somewhat less public stronger understandings on how much the West are meant to be willing to back that status. The Polish government let it out of the bag earlier this week, very deliberately as they watched the Russians begin to manouvere, that the understandings were more than just some words were expected.
I posted the other night that it was interesting that the Russians said they were talking to the Ukrainian military, not the government, about bringing stability and that you had to wonder. Wonder no more, a surprising number of Ukrainian naval officers have gone on sick leave. The first fight, however, may come with the Russian troop column on its way to a Ukrainian military facility in the Crimea as we speak.
I've got a funny story about a friend who was seriously ill - sadly both with a mental breakdown and with a physical illness - who tried to negotiate Whitechapel tube station in a wheelchair, after 'escaping' from the hospital across the road. Anyone who knows the station can guess how well that turned out ...
I lived in Stepney Green for a year twenty years ago, and we walked from Mile End into central London a month or so ago. If anything, the Whitechapel area has improved. For one thing, there's no longer second-hand white goods being sold on the pavement near the Blind Beggar.
And I'm being serious. It has improved massively. For one thing, the white (English) thugs seem to have disappeared, and so has the ANL graffiti ;-)
Youre basing this fantastic change on one visit?
Nope, been back there many times over the years, for instance to visit the fantastic Whitechapel art gallery.
And believe me, it appears to have improved. I'm talking in the last 21 years. How long have you known that area?
I have been going there regularly for the last ten years and it gets worse each time I go
The forces turning into the Crimea in the last week far larger than that required to bluff and make noise. Therefore you can reasonably conclude that he intends to use it.
Remarkably no sign of the leader of the free world.
There is no leader of the Free World. America has resigned from its role as World Policeman, on the very understandable grounds that, whereas in 1945 America constituted 50% of world GDP, America now constitutes 20% of global GDP, and this proportion is fast falling, and will soon be overtaken by a ruthlessly competitive China: so America cannot afford to go strutting around the world, hitting errant nations with nightsticks.
We are in a post-imperial world. Syria, and now Crimea, are the evidence thereof.
We have treaty obligations to give assistance to Ukraine if Ukraine is a victim of or threatened with aggression under the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances of 1994.
I've got a funny story about a friend who was seriously ill - sadly both with a mental breakdown and with a physical illness - who tried to negotiate Whitechapel tube station in a wheelchair, after 'escaping' from the hospital across the road. Anyone who knows the station can guess how well that turned out ...
I lived in Stepney Green for a year twenty years ago, and we walked from Mile End into central London a month or so ago. If anything, the Whitechapel area has improved. For one thing, there's no longer second-hand white goods being sold on the pavement near the Blind Beggar.
And I'm being serious. It has improved massively. For one thing, the white (English) thugs seem to have disappeared, and so has the ANL graffiti ;-)
Youre basing this fantastic change on one visit?
Nope, been back there many times over the years, for instance to visit the fantastic Whitechapel art gallery.
And believe me, it appears to have improved. I'm talking in the last 21 years. How long have you known that area?
I have been going there regularly for the last ten years and it gets worse each time I go
We have treaty obligations to give assistance to Ukraine if Ukraine is a victim of or threatened with aggression under the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances of 1994.
The EU also has an obligation according to Russia. They negotiated the truce deal before Yanukovych got ousted. That deal said the former President was to remain at least for a period. They will wave that at the EU shortly.
We have treaty obligations to give assistance to Ukraine if Ukraine is a victim of or threatened with aggression under the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances of 1994.
Nigel Farage has suggested he would be open to the possiblity of a coalition with Labour if Ed Miliband pledged to hold a referendum on the European Union.
Ah come on, this means you can cheer that Labour Corby win with even more gusto on election night. It will be like when Stuey netted in injury time in the 89 FA Cup Final (what happened later was a bit like election night 2010).
Nigel Farage has suggested he would be open to the possiblity of a coalition with Labour if Ed Miliband pledged to hold a referendum on the European Union.
If the people of Crimea are predominantly Russian and/or want to be part of Russia, who are we to stop them?
And if the people of Chechnya predominantly don't want to be part of Russia, what do we do to help them?
In April 2009, Russia ended its counter-terrorism operation and pulled out the bulk of its army.[54] Three months later, the leader of the separatist government, Akhmed Zakayev, called for a halt to armed resistance against the Chechen police force starting on August 1, 2009.[55]
If you are happy with 22% of Londoners not having English as their first language, then good for you. But plenty of other people are not really comfortable with it, and think that having communities separated by language doesn't make for a cohesive society.
As others have said, no problem, if they also speak passable English. I hear all kinds of languages on the bus to work - had never thought about it as an issue. Perhaps you meant if they don't speak English (which makes sense of your second sentence)? I agree that that's a problem, and support the idea that permanent leave to remain should where possible require a working knowledge of English.
That said, when I was in Switzerland and Denmark, very few Brits bothered to learn the local language, even those who'd lived there for many years, and some were mildly indignant about the idea that they should. There is a certain anglocentric arrogance which one sometimes encounters abroad. I'd think poorly of someone who contemptuously refused to speak English, too, if such people exist.
Nigel Farage has suggested he would be open to the possiblity of a coalition with Labour if Ed Miliband pledged to hold a referendum on the European Union.
I think the source of this might be Mr Farage's Channel 5 interview. He said something like: after the 2015 election, he'd do a deal with the devil to get an EU referendum.
Ukrainian defence sources expect an assault on a Ukrainian military facility in Crimea in early hours local time.
Question is, will they fight?
By the way the Ukrainians have already requested Western military assistance under the very treaty indicated below.
Y0kel
Putin will sell the troop deployments in the Crimea as a limited force protection measure. Obama will be irritated and may object in public but will buy the deal.
Crimea is not where the battle for Ukrainian independence will be fought. It won't even be in Kiev. It will be in the offices of the IMF.
If Putin does want to escalate the silly games before sitting down to negotiate then I would not be surprised to see a 'terrorist' attack on a gas pipeline feeding the EU. This would send energy prices rocketing in the markets; alarm the central Europeans and Germany about the security and cost of future supplies; justify military intervention by Russia on Ukrainian territory to secure the supplies; and enable Putin to turning the taps, at least temporarily, on gas supplies to the Ukraine.
Obama will respond by refusing to turn up at the upcoming G8 Summit chaired by Putin.
Russia seem to be holding all the cards, at least militarily and diplomatically. Putin's problem is that if he goes too far he will be left as the sole diner left at the table who can pick up the tab for feeding the Ukrainian guests. And he won't want that: far better to get the IMF, EU and US to share the bill.
So it is a case of fiddle, destabilise, build negotiating power and then sit down.
So what? Is Farage a complete idiot? They've been going after the Hamiltons since well before Wythenshawe so he can't suddenly pretend to be shocked they want to attack those two liabilities.
How hard would it have been to laugh in their face while pointing out that they need to ask the tory party if they are that interested in those historic scandals. Farage was given a wide open goal with Cammie's Cast Iron Pledge in tatters but he flounced off the pitch. Everyone knew the press would be hostile to him because CCHQ and the Beeb are nothing if not predictable. So he either gets used to dealing with it by laughing off the attacks and refocusing the questions or he can forget about TV publicity. He used to be fairly adroit at handling the media but he seems to be getting far, far worse lately.
Farage has nobody to blame but himself after being handed an absolute gift by Cameron. Nor is it remotely the first time the incompetent fop has done so.
So what? Is Farage a complete idiot? They've been going after the Hamiltons since well before Wythenshawe so he can't suddenly pretend to be shocked they want to attack those two liabilities.
How hard would it have been to laugh in their face while pointing out that they need to ask the tory party if they are that interested in those historic scandals. Farage was given a wide open goal with Cammie's Cast Iron Pledge in tatters but he flounced off the pitch. Everyone knew the press would be hostile to him because CCHQ and the Beeb are nothing if not predictable. So he either gets used to dealing with it by laughing off the attacks and refocusing the questions or he can forget about TV publicity. He used to be fairly adroit at handling the media but he seems to be getting far, far worse lately.
Farage has nobody to blame but himself after being handed an absolute gift by Cameron. Nor is it remotely the first time the incompetent fop has done so.
For once I can only agree with you. Farage should also learn to delegate more, he's been on the go almost continuously since his back operation.
Comments
And isan's friend has every right to hate the District line if people are taking on the tube. The language is entirely irrelevant. Fortunately that's one rule that almost all immigrants learn instantly.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2f/Whitechapel_tube_station_1896.jpg In the good old days
Strict RP is a must for everyone!
Secondly, do we then have to place people with speech defects on an island by themselves, and how bloody big would this island have to be?
(On my recent walk I kept an eye out for the site of the old St Mary's tube station.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Mary's_tube_station
The operation at the airports last night was Russian Special Ops guys who came in earlier this week.
Goaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaal !!!
The forces turning into the Crimea in the last week far larger than that required to bluff and make noise. Therefore you can reasonably conclude that he intends to use it.
Remarkably no sign of the leader of the free world.
Nigel Farage has suggested he would be open to the possiblity of a coalition with Labour if Ed Miliband pledged to hold a referendum on the European Union.
http://www.politicshome.com/uk/story/40624/
He's and ukip have lost my vote if it happens.
There are agreements regarding the territorial status of Ukraine that the US and other major European nations have signed off on.
What is less well known is that there are somewhat less public stronger understandings on how much the West are meant to be willing to back that status. The Polish government let it out of the bag earlier this week, very deliberately as they watched the Russians begin to manouvere, that the understandings were more than just some words were expected.
I posted the other night that it was interesting that the Russians said they were talking to the Ukrainian military, not the government, about bringing stability and that you had to wonder. Wonder no more, a surprising number of Ukrainian naval officers have gone on sick leave. The first fight, however, may come with the Russian troop column on its way to a Ukrainian military facility in the Crimea as we speak.
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Ukraine._Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances
http://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/feb/28/primary-school-teachers-work-60-hour-week
Question is, will they fight?
By the way the Ukrainians have already requested Western military assistance under the very treaty indicated below.
People doing 40 hours a week with four weeks holiday do 1,920 hours.
Put another way 2,400 hours over 48 weeks is 50 hours a week, or 10 hours (9 til 7, for example) a day.
A keeper.
You are a vested interest interested only in preserving your cushy lifestyle.
@gabyhinsliff: Ooh. Nigel Farage pulled out of #newsnight.
Almost as inept as Farage, appointing Neil Hamilton to a high profile role. No wonder he's flounced out of a planned interview with Newsnight.
https://www.politicshome.com/uk/story/40624/
I think we can consign the lazy, featherbed, cushy job meme to history.
Now get back to work.
Putting the Hamiltons in charge? Who thought of that one?
Tears of laughter etc
I see the Russians are running rings around Cathy Ashton and her EU colleagues. Ham fisted amateurs.
Almost as inept as Farage, appointing Neil Hamilton to a high profile role. No wonder he's flounced out of a planned interview with Newsnight.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/02/the-millions-in-eu-funding-the-bbc-tried-to-hide/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=the-millions-in-eu-funding-the-bbc-tried-to-hide
http://youtu.be/bPPPpoYdGFo
http://www.channel5.com/shows/5-news/features-archived/ukip-nigel-farage-vows-to-cause-a-political-earthquake
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2014/02/28/palin-on-ukraine-i-told-you-so/
Putin will sell the troop deployments in the Crimea as a limited force protection measure. Obama will be irritated and may object in public but will buy the deal.
Crimea is not where the battle for Ukrainian independence will be fought. It won't even be in Kiev. It will be in the offices of the IMF.
If Putin does want to escalate the silly games before sitting down to negotiate then I would not be surprised to see a 'terrorist' attack on a gas pipeline feeding the EU. This would send energy prices rocketing in the markets; alarm the central Europeans and Germany about the security and cost of future supplies; justify military intervention by Russia on Ukrainian territory to secure the supplies; and enable Putin to turning the taps, at least temporarily, on gas supplies to the Ukraine.
Obama will respond by refusing to turn up at the upcoming G8 Summit chaired by Putin.
Russia seem to be holding all the cards, at least militarily and diplomatically. Putin's problem is that if he goes too far he will be left as the sole diner left at the table who can pick up the tab for feeding the Ukrainian guests. And he won't want that: far better to get the IMF, EU and US to share the bill.
So it is a case of fiddle, destabilise, build negotiating power and then sit down.
What could possibly go wrong?
*tears of laughter etc.*
How hard would it have been to laugh in their face while pointing out that they need to ask the tory party if they are that interested in those historic scandals. Farage was given a wide open goal with Cammie's Cast Iron Pledge in tatters but he flounced off the pitch. Everyone knew the press would be hostile to him because CCHQ and the Beeb are nothing if not predictable. So he either gets used to dealing with it by laughing off the attacks and refocusing the questions or he can forget about TV publicity. He used to be fairly adroit at handling the media but he seems to be getting far, far worse lately.
Farage has nobody to blame but himself after being handed an absolute gift by Cameron. Nor is it remotely the first time the incompetent fop has done so.