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  • Out of interest, how many posters on here who learned Latin to O/A/GCSE level at school speak a foreign language fluently?

    I don't actually get this obsession with Latin. In a day that is already very full, why teach kids a dead language when you can teach them one that they actually have a chance of using? Obviously, if there is evidence that it is a springboard to multi-lingualism then that's great. But is there? Miriam Clegg said recently that she rarely met public school educated men who speak foreign languages, but presumably most of them must have done Latin.

    I did Latin to GCSE.

    I do speak many languages, I grew up in a multi-lingual house, I spoke English, Urdu and Punjabi (and still do)

    Additionally, I can speak German and French very well, learned at school.

    I'm planning to learn to speak Portuguese and Spanish sometime soon.
    I got an A in O Level Latin and speak French, German, and the language of love like I know what it means.

    During a spell of national artistry, i.e. when drawing the dole, I did night classes in Spanish and found the verbs to be the same as first declension Latin ones, if you treat the letter T in the source Latin verb as a glottal stop. Thus

    amo
    amas
    ama(t)
    amamos (-us)
    ama(t)is
    aman(t)

    You can get by in Italy with Latin insasmuch as you can figure out most of what you see written down, and you can do the same in Romania too. "Impingeti" written on a door, for example, clearly derives from the Latin verb impingere meaning "push". Admittedly there are quicker ways of getting up to speed in Romanian.

    I feel very dislocated when in a country where I can't understand anything anywhere. Russia. Kuwait. Scotland.

  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    Socrates said:

    Looking through Labour's leadership, how many do they have that grew up in the South of England outside London? I get Ed Balls from East Anglia, but can't find anyone else...

    I have never understood why this matters, particularly. Labour's power bases are the big cities - "the boys from the Mersey, and the Thames, and the Tyne", as Elvis Costello might have had it.

    Even lefties in the Tory shires don't vote Labour.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "Dyslexia may not exist, warn academics

    Experts at Durham and Yale Universities are calling for the term ‘dyslexia’ to be abandoned because it is unscientific and lacks meaning"


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/10661412/Dyslexia-may-not-exist-warn-academics.html
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    AveryLP said:


    Fagage says he'll quit if UKIP fails to win any seats at GE2015 (via @PickardJE)

    As Richard Tyndall never ceases to remind us, Fagage is excess bagage to UKIP.

    I think I would ask that you refine that assertion. I have never said he is excess baggae. What I have said and continue to believe is that he is not the best person to be leader - in fact as a party leader I consider him a hindrance rather than an asset. I would however be sorry to see him disappear from the political scene as I do believe he is a very effective communicator and an asset to the BOO cause in his public appearances (mostly).
    So, put him in the hold not overhead?

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited February 2014
    Carnyx said:

    I know our friends north of the border don't all hold him in the highest esteem.....but the Staggers comes out for Carmichael:

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/02/why-alistair-carmichael-could-be-next-lib-dem-leader

    Here's something for you, from north of the border:

    http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/independent-scotland-could-be-aaa-rated-standard-poors/

    Thank you - tho I note the FT described the same S&P report in significantly less pro-Indie terms than your pro-Indie website, curiously enough:

    Scotland would struggle to match the UK’s AAA credit rating with Standard & Poor’s if it failed to negotiate a currency union with London or the eurozone, the credit rating agency warned on Thursday.

    In a blow to the SNP’s hints that it might adopt sterling without a formal currency agreement, S&P said: “A unilateral assumption of a global reserve currency such as the British pound sterling or the euro would not address the absence of access to liquidity support from the Bank of England or the ECB unless a treaty arrangement along the lines of that between Lichtenstein and Switzerland could be reached.”
    “This would leave investors more reluctant to lend to Scotland’s banks in a new currency that may not benefit initially from deep capital markets.”


    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/3866b10a-9fa8-11e3-94f3-00144feab7de.html#ixzz2udm5qIqy


  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited February 2014
    Spanish is apparently much easier to learn than French or German, so anyone who already speaks those languages shouldn't find it too difficult.
  • AveryLP said:

    AveryLP said:


    Fagage says he'll quit if UKIP fails to win any seats at GE2015 (via @PickardJE)

    As Richard Tyndall never ceases to remind us, Fagage is excess bagage to UKIP.

    I think I would ask that you refine that assertion. I have never said he is excess baggae. What I have said and continue to believe is that he is not the best person to be leader - in fact as a party leader I consider him a hindrance rather than an asset. I would however be sorry to see him disappear from the political scene as I do believe he is a very effective communicator and an asset to the BOO cause in his public appearances (mostly).
    So, put him in the hold not overhead?

    Perhaps under the seat in front of you :-)
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815

    AveryLP said:

    AveryLP said:


    Fagage says he'll quit if UKIP fails to win any seats at GE2015 (via @PickardJE)

    As Richard Tyndall never ceases to remind us, Fagage is excess bagage to UKIP.

    I think I would ask that you refine that assertion. I have never said he is excess baggae. What I have said and continue to believe is that he is not the best person to be leader - in fact as a party leader I consider him a hindrance rather than an asset. I would however be sorry to see him disappear from the political scene as I do believe he is a very effective communicator and an asset to the BOO cause in his public appearances (mostly).
    So, put him in the hold not overhead?

    Perhaps under the seat in front of you :-)
    But let's not put Soubry in the seat :-)

    As NPxMP might demand.
  • Journalism is very nepotistic. The number of journalists on national titles whose parents were also journalists on national titles is astounding.

    It's similar to getting on in the Labour Party. You need family in it to smooth your path. If your name's Emily Benn you can be in with a serious shout of a safe Labour seat within 5 years of reaching puberty.
    Another reason why journalism is so public school dominated these days is because so many ways in involve unpaid work and internships.
    If this were a major factor there would be almost no left wing media, which is the opposite of the actual position.

    A more likely reason would be that you need to be reasonably literate to be a journalist, which if you've had grammar inculcated into you would be; but you need not be very smart, or possessed of thoughtful opinions. You can be possessed of profoundly cretinous and stupid opinions but as long as you can punctuate them correctly a la Toynbee / Monbiot, you're OK.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Moeen Ali has made a good start here

    Amazing really how few Asians play Cricket for England in recent years. Monty, Patel, Ravi and the young Yorkshire kid. Nas the only real big star though I think
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    AndyJS said:

    AndyJS said:

    I was interested to see two Chinese people talking to each other in a English on a flight from Hong Kong to Dubai the other day.

    Presumably one was a Cantonese speaker, the other Mandarin, and they found it easier to speak English to each other.


    English spelling can be pretty chaotic - thanks partly to the great vowel shift, partly to extensive borrowing from other languages - but the popular conception that it's a complete nightmare is badly overstated.

    English is by far the best language in the world. There, I said it!

    I don't think English really is a particularly good language, it's just winning out through sheer brute force, which is perhaps regrettable.
    It has more words than any other language, I believe, which must give it points for flexibility and nuance.
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789

    Carnyx said:

    I know our friends north of the border don't all hold him in the highest esteem.....but the Staggers comes out for Carmichael:

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/02/why-alistair-carmichael-could-be-next-lib-dem-leader

    Here's something for you, from north of the border:

    http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/independent-scotland-could-be-aaa-rated-standard-poors/

    Thank you - tho I note the FT described the same S&P report in significantly less pro-Indie terms than your pro-Indie website, curiously enough:

    Scotland would struggle to match the UK’s AAA credit rating with Standard & Poor’s if it failed to negotiate a currency union with London or the eurozone, the credit rating agency warned on Thursday.

    In a blow to the SNP’s hints that it might adopt sterling without a formal currency agreement, S&P said: “A unilateral assumption of a global reserve currency such as the British pound sterling or the euro would not address the absence of access to liquidity support from the Bank of England or the ECB unless a treaty arrangement along the lines of that between Lichtenstein and Switzerland could be reached.”
    “This would leave investors more reluctant to lend to Scotland’s banks in a new currency that may not benefit initially from deep capital markets.”


    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/3866b10a-9fa8-11e3-94f3-00144feab7de.html#ixzz2udm5qIqy


    They quoted someone from S&P last night on the news - he equivocated and sounded relatively positive about Scotland's chances. Robert Peston then actually said: "what he means is..." and went on to give what appeared to be his own view. Sloppy.
  • Good evening, everyone.

    F1: 2-3 stops likely, Pirelli say. Same as before, basically.

    Alonso reckons nobody's really ready, and I suspect that's right.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,341
    edited February 2014
    Lennon said:

    I know our friends north of the border don't all hold him in the highest esteem.....but the Staggers comes out for Carmichael:

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/02/why-alistair-carmichael-could-be-next-lib-dem-leader

    Just had another look at the Orkney and Shetland result from 2010. Something I'd not noticed before was how well UKIP did - by far UKIP's best result in Scotland with 6.32% (the next best being Moray at 2.65%). Not sure what it says, but it struck me as interesting.
    Very interesting observation and one that was completely new to me. A further check shows that LD was 62% in 2010 and SNP, T and L 11% each so in theory this is perhaps a good seat for UKIP to come second with only a few percentage points change .... However, the impact of LDs in general and Mr Carmichael in particular being a Tory-hugger has yet to be seen.

    On the other hand UKIP got all of 0.1% (first prefs I think) in the Orkney Council election 2012 but it's all Independents there except for the SNP at 3%, and no Tories or Labour bothered to stand. Again in Shetland, Independents other than a token SNP presence but this time a Christian rather than Kipper party candidate.

    So on the whole local exceptionalism combined with a fair bit of tactical voting, but I'm not sure what to make of UKIP. My best guess is that both constituencies have a fair bit of fishing (or did - not sure about the current position) and farming so I'm wondering if it is the original sellout of the fishing industry to get a bigger rebate for the UK budget in the EU, and ongoing EU directives, which has something to do with it.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited February 2014

    Journalism is very nepotistic. The number of journalists on national titles whose parents were also journalists on national titles is astounding.

    It's similar to getting on in the Labour Party. You need family in it to smooth your path. If your name's Emily Benn you can be in with a serious shout of a safe Labour seat within 5 years of reaching puberty.
    Another reason why journalism is so public school dominated these days is because so many ways in involve unpaid work and internships.
    If this were a major factor there would be almost no left wing media, which is the opposite of the actual position.

    A more likely reason would be that you need to be reasonably literate to be a journalist, which if you've had grammar inculcated into you would be; but you need not be very smart, or possessed of thoughtful opinions. You can be possessed of profoundly cretinous and stupid opinions but as long as you can punctuate them correctly a la Toynbee / Monbiot, you're OK.

    Mr Bond.

    Your Toynbee example is both apt and tinely.

    This, from the BBC article on PIE linked this morning:

    When Polly Toynbee interviewed O'Carroll and Hose [PIE Officers] in the Guardian in September 1977 she heard men incredulous at the lack of support from the press. They seemed genuinely aggrieved at what they called a "Fleet Street conspiracy". One of them told her: "We would expect the Guardian, a decent liberal newspaper to support us."

    Toynbee talked of her "disgust, aversion and anger" at the group but added that she had "a sinking feeling that in another five years or so, their aims would eventually be incorporated into the general liberal credo, and we would all find them acceptable".


    Heart over head but with the apostrophes in the right place.

  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    AveryLP said:

    Without looking, I assume the Populus poll shows Labour still ahead seeing as it has been given the full squirrel treatment on here.

    Tory tide coming in, Lab on the turn, compouter.

    Don't worry though. If your goalposts are made of wood, they'll float and ease your burden.

    When do you expect this tide to arrive Avery?
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    The Change 2012 - 2014 illustrates clearly what the PB Tories have been saying:

    All UKIP votes are coming from Labour !!!!!!!!!
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited February 2014
    I have to ask again, what kind of nerd keeps leaving a messageboard in a huff, only to keep returning pretending to be someone else? Why would you bother?

    Is it really hilariously funny and Ive missed the joke?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited February 2014
    BobaFett said:

    Carnyx said:

    I know our friends north of the border don't all hold him in the highest esteem.....but the Staggers comes out for Carmichael:

    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/02/why-alistair-carmichael-could-be-next-lib-dem-leader

    Here's something for you, from north of the border:

    http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/independent-scotland-could-be-aaa-rated-standard-poors/

    They quoted someone from S&P last night on the news - he equivocated and sounded relatively positive about Scotland's chances. Robert Peston then actually said: "what he means is..." and went on to give what appeared to be his own view. Sloppy.
    A lot of the 'good news' is predicated on assumptions the SNP would not like - such as:
    The composition of Scotland's external balance sheet is as yet hypothetical, but our initial observation is that the Scottish financial sector is unusually large, with total assets estimated at 12.5x GDP. We would therefore likely view the financial sector as a significant contingent risk to the state. At the same time, a large part of this activity could be re-domiciled to the U.K.
    or may be wishful thinking:
    A successful agreement on Scotland's membership of a monetary union negotiated with either the U.K. or the eurozone (European Economic and Monetary Union) would provide considerable support for the rating on a sovereign Scotland.
    Or plan B:
    Alternatively, a decision by a sovereign Scotland to issue its own new and untested currency or to unilaterally adopt the currency of another sovereign--without gaining access to that currency's lender of last resort--could pose some initial risks to external financing, in our opinion. Specifically, we think Scotland would be hard-pressed, under a new currency regime, to quickly replicate the deep capital markets it enjoys today as part of the larger U.K.
    http://worldofstuart.excellentcontent.com/repository/StandardAndPoorsKeyConsiderations.pdf
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Beestonia's 300th post:

    http://beestonia.wordpress.com/
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    BobaFett said:

    AveryLP said:

    Without looking, I assume the Populus poll shows Labour still ahead seeing as it has been given the full squirrel treatment on here.

    Tory tide coming in, Lab on the turn, compouter.

    Don't worry though. If your goalposts are made of wood, they'll float and ease your burden.

    When do you expect this tide to arrive Avery?
    I expected it by the end of 2013 but it's late.

    I am not concerned though.

    It is compouter carrying the burden.

  • 'Mass immigration has left Britain 'unrecognisable', says Nigel Farage'
    - In one of his strongest attacks on immigration policy, Ukip leader says country has been "taken over" by foreigners
    He said: "So the answer is, I don't feel very comfortable in that situation and I don't think the majority of British people do.
    "It doesn't mean I'm against anybody of different backgrounds or different cultures - far from it. I want us to have a sensible, open-minded immigration policy.
    "But I think that what we've got, or what we've had, certainly, and what we continue to have when it comes to the EU is just wholly irresponsible.
    "I think it's done great damage to the cohesion of our society and the well-being of working people in this country."
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/10668996/Mass-immigration-has-left-Britain-unrecognisable-says-Nigel-Farage.html
  • SeanT said:

    AndyJS said:

    AndyJS said:

    I was interested to see two Chinese people talking to each other in a English on a flight from Hong Kong to Dubai the other day.

    Presumably one was a Cantonese speaker, the other Mandarin, and they found it easier to speak English to each other.


    English spelling can be pretty chaotic - thanks partly to the great vowel shift, partly to extensive borrowing from other languages - but the popular conception that it's a complete nightmare is badly overstated.

    English is by far the best language in the world. There, I said it!

    I don't think English really is a particularly good language, it's just winning out through sheer brute force, which is perhaps regrettable.
    Piffle, sir, Piffle! And Pshaw!

    James Joyce, who was arguably the most linguistically gifted human being in history, and who spoke umpteen languages, and who harboured no instinctive love for the English or the British (as an Irishman) nonetheless confessed that the English language was a miraculous gift which he was lucky to use - and, also, the greatest language of all.

    He loved its mix of Latin and Teuton, of Saxon and Celt, of softness and virility, of sonority, complexity, flexibility and precision, and of course its sheer frothing fecundity. All Those Words.

    He was right. It is the world's lingua franca for a reason beyond the British or American empire.
    Utter nonsense. There is nothing intrinsically superior about the English language.
  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,782
    Totally O/T - but this is amazing - the ability to read 500wpm and still take it all in...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624

    'Mass immigration has left Britain 'unrecognisable', says Nigel Farage'
    - In one of his strongest attacks on immigration policy, Ukip leader says country has been "taken over" by foreigners

    He said: "So the answer is, I don't feel very comfortable in that situation and I don't think the majority of British people do.
    "It doesn't mean I'm against anybody of different backgrounds or different cultures - far from it. I want us to have a sensible, open-minded immigration policy.
    "But I think that what we've got, or what we've had, certainly, and what we continue to have when it comes to the EU is just wholly irresponsible.
    "I think it's done great damage to the cohesion of our society and the well-being of working people in this country."
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/10668996/Mass-immigration-has-left-Britain-unrecognisable-says-Nigel-Farage.html

    Of course, Scottish independence would almost certainly cause a rush of immigratiion to England from north of the border
  • I expect the tanks in Bath & Gloucester are warming their engines as we speak:

    Bristol Mayor George Ferguson yesterday positioned the city as an attractive base for any Scottish financial firms considering their future over uncertainty about Scottish independence.

    Standard Life, one of Scotland’s biggest employers, yesterday announced it is considering moving some of its operations out of the country as part of contingency plans being lined up in the event of a vote in favour of independence.


    http://www.southwestbusiness.co.uk/news/28022014151035-bristol-opens-its-arms-to-scottish-business/
  • Mr. Lennon, the extremes of brain power are phenomenal. There are more connections between an average man's brain cells than there are stars in the sky.

    Unfortunately, high intelligence also has a high comorbidity with psych conditions.
  • rcs1000 said:

    'Mass immigration has left Britain 'unrecognisable', says Nigel Farage'
    - In one of his strongest attacks on immigration policy, Ukip leader says country has been "taken over" by foreigners

    He said: "So the answer is, I don't feel very comfortable in that situation and I don't think the majority of British people do.
    "It doesn't mean I'm against anybody of different backgrounds or different cultures - far from it. I want us to have a sensible, open-minded immigration policy.
    "But I think that what we've got, or what we've had, certainly, and what we continue to have when it comes to the EU is just wholly irresponsible.
    "I think it's done great damage to the cohesion of our society and the well-being of working people in this country."
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/10668996/Mass-immigration-has-left-Britain-unrecognisable-says-Nigel-Farage.html
    Of course, Scottish independence would almost certainly cause a rush of immigratiion to England from north of the borderWhat? With free unicorns for all?

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,341
    Much of that 12x factor quoted ad nauseam by Mr Osborne is to do with other than banks, of course, with that whopper of a non sequitur in his speech, and much of the banking is only nominally Scottish - on independence the banks would split to a greater or lesser degree, or simply answer to different authorities in Scotland and London for regulatory reasons, giving much or all of the rebalancing required for regulatory purposes. (Remember, the No campaign keep telling us that Scotland has too many banks to be independent in the same breath as it says they'll all leave anyway.) The final S & P conclusion was, in any case -

    "In brief, we would expect Scotland to benefit from all the attributes of an investment-grade sovereign credit
    characterized by its wealthy economy (roughly the size of New Zealand's), high-quality human capital, flexible product
    and labor markets, and transparent institutions. Nevertheless, the newly formed sovereign state would begin life with
    comparatively high levels of public debt, sensitivity to oil prices, and, depending on the nature of arrangements with
    the EU or U.K., potentially limited monetary flexibility. At the same time, Scotland's external position in terms of liquidity and investment could be subject to volatility should banks leave. On the other hand, if this were to happen, it
    could bring benefits in terms of reducing the size of the Scottish economy's external balance sheet, normalizing the size
    of its financial sector, and reducing contingent liabilities for the state. In short, the challenge for Scotland to go it alone
    would be significant, but not unsurpassable."


  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited February 2014
    "Rome days away from bankruptcy

    Eternal city warns it will go bust for the first time since it was destroyed by Nero":


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/10666138/Rome-days-away-from-bankruptcy.html
  • 'Mass immigration has left Britain 'unrecognisable', says Nigel Farage'
    - In one of his strongest attacks on immigration policy, Ukip leader says country has been "taken over" by foreigners

    He said: "So the answer is, I don't feel very comfortable in that situation and I don't think the majority of British people do.
    "It doesn't mean I'm against anybody of different backgrounds or different cultures - far from it. I want us to have a sensible, open-minded immigration policy.
    "But I think that what we've got, or what we've had, certainly, and what we continue to have when it comes to the EU is just wholly irresponsible.
    "I think it's done great damage to the cohesion of our society and the well-being of working people in this country."
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/10668996/Mass-immigration-has-left-Britain-unrecognisable-says-Nigel-Farage.html
    Swedish immigration policy fails;
    http://www.economist.com/blogs/charlemagne/2013/05/swedens-riots
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited February 2014

    'Mass immigration has left Britain 'unrecognisable', says Nigel Farage'
    - In one of his strongest attacks on immigration policy, Ukip leader says country has been "taken over" by foreigners

    He said: "So the answer is, I don't feel very comfortable in that situation and I don't think the majority of British people do.
    "It doesn't mean I'm against anybody of different backgrounds or different cultures - far from it. I want us to have a sensible, open-minded immigration policy.
    "But I think that what we've got, or what we've had, certainly, and what we continue to have when it comes to the EU is just wholly irresponsible.
    "I think it's done great damage to the cohesion of our society and the well-being of working people in this country."
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/10668996/Mass-immigration-has-left-Britain-unrecognisable-says-Nigel-Farage.html

    I think we get the message that the person who chose the photo of Farage doesn't like him very much.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    'Mass immigration has left Britain 'unrecognisable', says Nigel Farage'
    - In one of his strongest attacks on immigration policy, Ukip leader says country has been "taken over" by foreigners

    He said: "So the answer is, I don't feel very comfortable in that situation and I don't think the majority of British people do.
    "It doesn't mean I'm against anybody of different backgrounds or different cultures - far from it. I want us to have a sensible, open-minded immigration policy.
    "But I think that what we've got, or what we've had, certainly, and what we continue to have when it comes to the EU is just wholly irresponsible.
    "I think it's done great damage to the cohesion of our society and the well-being of working people in this country."
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/10668996/Mass-immigration-has-left-Britain-unrecognisable-says-Nigel-Farage.html

    He is right, that is commonplace in London/on trains coming into/out of London

    I was on the bus from Marylebone to Aldgate last week and there were three people sitting around me on their mobiles, none of them speaking English... it is the norm. Get the district line from London to the suburbs, and English starts becoming the main language at about Dagenham East

    I went out in Dalston a couple of weeks ago, and coming out of Stratford station it struck me that no one I passed was talking English.. it is like being in a foreign country

    Fair play, that's what Labour wanted to achieve. But not telling anyone they were going to do it, then calling anyone who complained racist isn't cricket


  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624

    rcs1000 said:

    'Mass immigration has left Britain 'unrecognisable', says Nigel Farage'
    - In one of his strongest attacks on immigration policy, Ukip leader says country has been "taken over" by foreigners

    He said: "So the answer is, I don't feel very comfortable in that situation and I don't think the majority of British people do.
    "It doesn't mean I'm against anybody of different backgrounds or different cultures - far from it. I want us to have a sensible, open-minded immigration policy.
    "But I think that what we've got, or what we've had, certainly, and what we continue to have when it comes to the EU is just wholly irresponsible.
    "I think it's done great damage to the cohesion of our society and the well-being of working people in this country."
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/10668996/Mass-immigration-has-left-Britain-unrecognisable-says-Nigel-Farage.html
    Of course, Scottish independence would almost certainly cause a rush of immigratiion to England from north of the border
    What? With free unicorns for all?



    I don't know if the SNP believes in the magic money tree. But I'm fairly sure that most of Scottish Labour does.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,566
    AndyJS said:

    Beestonia's 300th post:

    http://beestonia.wordpress.com/

    Broxtowe's most successful blogger - he has a huge following locally, reaching a younger audience who shun the weightier blogs that Ms Soubry and I offer.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    isam said:

    'Mass immigration has left Britain 'unrecognisable', says Nigel Farage'
    - In one of his strongest attacks on immigration policy, Ukip leader says country has been "taken over" by foreigners

    He said: "So the answer is, I don't feel very comfortable in that situation and I don't think the majority of British people do.
    "It doesn't mean I'm against anybody of different backgrounds or different cultures - far from it. I want us to have a sensible, open-minded immigration policy.
    "But I think that what we've got, or what we've had, certainly, and what we continue to have when it comes to the EU is just wholly irresponsible.
    "I think it's done great damage to the cohesion of our society and the well-being of working people in this country."
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/10668996/Mass-immigration-has-left-Britain-unrecognisable-says-Nigel-Farage.html
    He is right, that is commonplace in London/on trains coming into/out of London

    I was on the bus from Marylebone to Aldgate last week and there were three people sitting around me on their mobiles, none of them speaking English... it is the norm. Get the district line from London to the suburbs, and English starts becoming the main language at about Dagenham East

    I went out in Dalston a couple of weeks ago, and coming out of Stratford station it struck me that no one I passed was talking English.. it is like being in a foreign country

    Fair play, that's what Labour wanted to achieve. But not telling anyone they were going to do it, then calling anyone who complained racist isn't cricket




    Although I would point out that the people who live in Maryleblone, in Aldgate, in Dalston - whether white or not, whether British or not - are much less likely to vote UKIP than those in the white, British Upminster.

    It would seem to me that the free market is working fairly well. Those who want to live among people who are just like them move to the Kent and Essex borders of London. While those who want a more cosmopolitan life choose Aldgate or Marylebone.
  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,782

    Mr. Lennon, the extremes of brain power are phenomenal. There are more connections between an average man's brain cells than there are stars in the sky.

    Unfortunately, high intelligence also has a high comorbidity with psych conditions.

    True - but the link wasn't about any individual, it was a program which displays things in such a way that 500wpm is normal for everyone once you get used to it - I just thought that it was pretty cool and one of very few things where I go 'I want that now, on every device I have...'
  • Carnyx said:

    Much of that 12x factor quoted ad nauseam by Mr Osborne.......
    S&P cite 12.5 - the reason I posted a link to the whole report is that the S&P conclusion that 'Scotland could make a go of it, but it might be tricky at first' is EXACTLY what the SNP has been denying for years - it will be "automatic EU membership, use of the GBP, lower taxes and higher spending a land of social justice, milk & honey" in complete contrast to what many of the 'Unionists' have been pointing out....and been denounced as anti-Scottish, Scots-haters, and the rest, for their pains.....



  • Mr. JS, did Nero make it bankrupt? I know he had a significant building programme and the fire, but I was unaware of that.

    The eurozone as the currency equivalent of a mad emperor seems rather fitting.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,341
    edited February 2014

    I expect the tanks in Bath & Gloucester are warming their engines as we speak:

    Bristol Mayor George Ferguson yesterday positioned the city as an attractive base for any Scottish financial firms considering their future over uncertainty about Scottish independence.

    Standard Life, one of Scotland’s biggest employers, yesterday announced it is considering moving some of its operations out of the country as part of contingency plans being lined up in the event of a vote in favour of independence.


    http://www.southwestbusiness.co.uk/news/28022014151035-bristol-opens-its-arms-to-scottish-business/


    I take it you did read the actual statement by Standard Life? It has had a lot of burden placed on it that it cannot bear on actual reading - though what briefing behind the scenes has taken place is another matter.

    Of course SL will need to open an EWNI office, at the very least for regulatory purposes . But move or make redundant 5000 experienced staff? All of them? When the value of the shares/investments is unaffected by the location of the staff? When we don't know the differential regulatory regimes, above all the result of the EU referendum? And when the nameplate of a function is nowhere like the same as its physical organization? I recently had to deal with a power of attorney document for an elderly relative, and the Bank of Scotland department dealing with it was in Bristol of all places.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    AndyJS said:

    "Rome days away from bankruptcy

    Eternal city warns it will go bust for the first time since it was destroyed by Nero":


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/10666138/Rome-days-away-from-bankruptcy.html

    I think there will be a string of municipal bankruptcies in Europe, the US and in China.

    It's could be the next great crisis. (Some cities in the UK are frighteningly indebted when you include unfunded pension liabilities.)
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    When you're travelling around Scotland these days (outside central Glasgow and Edinburgh) it feels a bit like what England must have been like 50 years ago — ie. 99% white and everyone speaking a variety of English. That simple fact must explain some of the differences between Scottish and English politics.
  • 'Douglas Alexander urges tax devolution to defeat independence'
    ... Mr Alexander is expected to blame his own party for failing to grasp the changes underway in Scotland as the SNP grew in popularity and strengthened its appeal to traditional Labour voters.

    He will explained: "After 1997, Labour in ­Government delivered a minimum wage, record levels of investment in schools and hospitals, record levels of employment, a decade of economic growth, the Minimum Income Guarantee and the Working Families’ Tax Credit.

    "But despite these achievements, Scottish Labour’s understanding of itself and Scotland was ­increasingly challenged. We took the fight to the ­struggles of the day but failed to identify those of tomorrow and to articulate the path for the next generation. In 2011, the electoral roof finally came in."
    http://news.stv.tv/scotland/265734-douglas-alexander-urges-tax-devolution-to-defeat-independence/
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523

    Journalism is very nepotistic. The number of journalists on national titles whose parents were also journalists on national titles is astounding.

    It's similar to getting on in the Labour Party. You need family in it to smooth your path. If your name's Emily Benn you can be in with a serious shout of a safe Labour seat within 5 years of reaching puberty.
    Another reason why journalism is so public school dominated these days is because so many ways in involve unpaid work and internships.
    If this were a major factor there would be almost no left wing media, which is the opposite of the actual position.

    A more likely reason would be that you need to be reasonably literate to be a journalist, which if you've had grammar inculcated into you would be; but you need not be very smart, or possessed of thoughtful opinions. You can be possessed of profoundly cretinous and stupid opinions but as long as you can punctuate them correctly a la Toynbee / Monbiot, you're OK.

    "If this were a major factor there would be almost no left wing media, which is the opposite of the actual position."

    Most of them are ex public school. They're the late developers who were bullied by the rugby team.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624

    Mr. JS, did Nero make it bankrupt? I know he had a significant building programme and the fire, but I was unaware of that.

    The eurozone as the currency equivalent of a mad emperor seems rather fitting.

    In the US, Detroit is in the process of going bankrupt. Puerto Rico, likewise. There are perhaps 10 to 15 cities, counties and even states where there is a high likelihood of bankruptcy in the near future.

    I have some data - which I'm not going to share, as its proprietary work - on the solvency on some UK councils. It would make your hair go white.

    And don't get me started on Chinese local government :-)
  • Mr. Lennon, ah, sorry. I'm actually doing a bit of writing and occasionally checking the thread, so I didn't click the link.
  • Stuart_DicksonStuart_Dickson Posts: 3,557
    edited February 2014
    Carnyx said:

    I expect the tanks in Bath & Gloucester are warming their engines as we speak:

    Bristol Mayor George Ferguson yesterday positioned the city as an attractive base for any Scottish financial firms considering their future over uncertainty about Scottish independence.

    Standard Life, one of Scotland’s biggest employers, yesterday announced it is considering moving some of its operations out of the country as part of contingency plans being lined up in the event of a vote in favour of independence.


    http://www.southwestbusiness.co.uk/news/28022014151035-bristol-opens-its-arms-to-scottish-business/


    I take it you did read the actual statement by Standard Life? It has had a lot of burden placed on it that it cannot bear on actual reading - though what briefing behind the scenes has taken place is another matter.

    Of course SL will need to open an EWNI office, at the very least for regulatory purposes . But move or make redundant 5000 experienced staff? All of them? When the value of the shares/investments is unaffected by the location of the staff? When we don't know the differential regulatory regimes, above all the result of the EU referendum? And when the nameplate of a function is nowhere like the same as its physical organization? I recently had to deal with a power of attorney document for an elderly relative, and the Bank of Scotland department dealing with it was in Bristol of all places.

    They are not remotely interested in actually reading the statement by Standard Life. They are telling themselves stories to keep their hopes up. You are wasting your time trying to engage them in intelligent intercourse.
  • corporealcorporeal Posts: 2,549
    AndyJS said:

    "Rome days away from bankruptcy

    Eternal city warns it will go bust for the first time since it was destroyed by Nero":


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/10666138/Rome-days-away-from-bankruptcy.html

    I'll bow to our more classically minded PBers. But since Nero?

    I mean surely when it was being asset-stripped following a hostile takeover by the barbarians the finances can't have been too great.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    "At the end of February 2012 the Tories were still getting the benefit from the after-glow of what became known as the “Veto-gasm” – the polling boost that followed from David Cameron’s famous Brussels veto. "

    Cameron's flounce bounce which also provided rock solid proof of the extreme stupidity and gullibility of the most amusing PB tories on here. They were wetting themselves with pleasure at the veto flounce despite it being pointed out to them in no uncertain terms they were being gullible fools.

    The flounce bounce also shattered the faith of the more eurosceptic tory voters. So when the incompetence of Osborne's omnishambles (cheered on by the same clueless PB tories) came along soon on the heels of the flounce bounce, and tanked the tories VI, it just made it all the easier for those unhappy tory kipper waverers to start jumping ship over the the kippers in ever increasing numbers. As the polls clearly showed.

    It was also all the polls that showed this not just yougov.

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/96/UK_opinion_polling_2010-2015.png



  • Carnyx said:

    I expect the tanks in Bath & Gloucester are warming their engines as we speak:

    Bristol Mayor George Ferguson yesterday positioned the city as an attractive base for any Scottish financial firms considering their future over uncertainty about Scottish independence.

    Standard Life, one of Scotland’s biggest employers, yesterday announced it is considering moving some of its operations out of the country as part of contingency plans being lined up in the event of a vote in favour of independence.


    http://www.southwestbusiness.co.uk/news/28022014151035-bristol-opens-its-arms-to-scottish-business/

    I take it you did read the actual statement by Standard Life? It has had a lot of burden placed on it that it cannot bear on actual reading - though what briefing behind the scenes has taken place is another matter.
    Since I posted a link to it - yes.

    And I have to say it was more accurately represented by the FT than by the 'Business for Scotland' link you posted - which skated over the caveats.

    In the short term I doubt Standard Life would seek to relocate 5000 jobs to rUK.

    However, having most of their operations based where most of their business is does have a sort of remorseless logic to it.....
  • Carnyx said:

    I expect the tanks in Bath & Gloucester are warming their engines as we speak:

    Bristol Mayor George Ferguson yesterday positioned the city as an attractive base for any Scottish financial firms considering their future over uncertainty about Scottish independence.

    Standard Life, one of Scotland’s biggest employers, yesterday announced it is considering moving some of its operations out of the country as part of contingency plans being lined up in the event of a vote in favour of independence.


    http://www.southwestbusiness.co.uk/news/28022014151035-bristol-opens-its-arms-to-scottish-business/


    I take it you did read the actual statement by Standard Life? It has had a lot of burden placed on it that it cannot bear on actual reading - though what briefing behind the scenes has taken place is another matter.

    Of course SL will need to open an EWNI office, at the very least for regulatory purposes . But move or make redundant 5000 experienced staff? All of them? When the value of the shares/investments is unaffected by the location of the staff? When we don't know the differential regulatory regimes, above all the result of the EU referendum? And when the nameplate of a function is nowhere like the same as its physical organization? I recently had to deal with a power of attorney document for an elderly relative, and the Bank of Scotland department dealing with it was in Bristol of all places.

    They are not remotely interested in actually reading the statement by Standard Life.
    Let me guess - who was the first to post a link to the report - a Nat or a 'Unionist'?
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530

    'Douglas Alexander urges tax devolution to defeat independence'

    ... Mr Alexander is expected to blame his own party for failing to grasp the changes underway in Scotland as the SNP grew in popularity and strengthened its appeal to traditional Labour voters.

    He will explained: "After 1997, Labour in ­Government delivered a minimum wage, record levels of investment in schools and hospitals, record levels of employment, a decade of economic growth, the Minimum Income Guarantee and the Working Families’ Tax Credit.

    "But despite these achievements, Scottish Labour’s understanding of itself and Scotland was ­increasingly challenged. We took the fight to the ­struggles of the day but failed to identify those of tomorrow and to articulate the path for the next generation. In 2011, the electoral roof finally came in."
    http://news.stv.tv/scotland/265734-douglas-alexander-urges-tax-devolution-to-defeat-independence/

    Wee Dougie and Smurf really have had quite the falling out because Murphy is one of those most vehemently opposed to any change in powers. No wonder he's so short tempered and angry in the commons these days.

  • It's not a big deal at all, but I think the Kippers should have let go with their new slogan and dropped the full stops. It's a bit fuddy duddy but in a funny way. Otherwise, all good.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,341

    Carnyx said:

    I expect the tanks in Bath & Gloucester are warming their engines as we speak:

    Bristol Mayor George Ferguson yesterday positioned the city as an attractive base for any Scottish financial firms considering their future over uncertainty about Scottish independence.

    Standard Life, one of Scotland’s biggest employers, yesterday announced it is considering moving some of its operations out of the country as part of contingency plans being lined up in the event of a vote in favour of independence.


    http://www.southwestbusiness.co.uk/news/28022014151035-bristol-opens-its-arms-to-scottish-business/


    I take it you did read the actual statement by Standard Life? It has had a lot of burden placed on it that it cannot bear on actual reading - though what briefing behind the scenes has taken place is another matter.

    Of course SL will need to open an EWNI office, at the very least for regulatory purposes . But move or make redundant 5000 experienced staff? All of them? When the value of the shares/investments is unaffected by the location of the staff? When we don't know the differential regulatory regimes, above all the result of the EU referendum? And when the nameplate of a function is nowhere like the same as its physical organization? I recently had to deal with a power of attorney document for an elderly relative, and the Bank of Scotland department dealing with it was in Bristol of all places.

    They are not remotely interested in actually reading the statement by Standard Life.
    Let me guess - who was the first to post a link to the report - a Nat or a 'Unionist'?
    Well, I stressed the need to read the actual report first, so it was kind of Ms Vance to find the link for me. And I am not a SNP member.

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:

    'Mass immigration has left Britain 'unrecognisable', says Nigel Farage'
    - In one of his strongest attacks on immigration policy, Ukip leader says country has been "taken over" by foreigners

    He said: ."
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/10668996/Mass-immigration-has-left-Britain-unrecognisable-says-Nigel-Farage.html
    He is right, that is commonplace in London/on trains coming into/out of London

    I was on the bus from Marylebone to Aldgate last week and there were three people sitting around me on their mobiles, none of them speaking English... it is the norm. Get the district line from London to the suburbs, and English starts becoming the main language at about Dagenham East

    I went out in Dalston a couple of weeks ago, and coming out of Stratford station it struck me that no one I passed was talking English.. it is like being in a foreign country

    Fair play, that's what Labour wanted to achieve. But not telling anyone they were going to do it, then calling anyone who complained racist isn't cricket


    Although I would point out that the people who live in Maryleblone, in Aldgate, in Dalston - whether white or not, whether British or not - are much less likely to vote UKIP than those in the white, British Upminster.

    It would seem to me that the free market is working fairly well. Those who want to live among people who are just like them move to the Kent and Essex borders of London. While those who want a more cosmopolitan life choose Aldgate or Marylebone.

    Yes to be fair the East End of London has always been like a foreign country my whole life really, just more so now than ever. I think if you aren't from the area and move in then it must be great, but if it was your families home and now its unrecognisable then that must make you a bit sad.

    Personally I am from Essex borders of London, so not really my problem, Im just empathising with people that do live there and cant afford to move (old poor pensioners mainly) When I lived in central London I did quite like the diversity, but I think that's because it wasn't where Id call home.. I would say the depiction of East London in EastEnders is more like Romford or Hornchurch than Inner London.. its almost racist of the BBC to depict Walford as so overwhelmingly white British
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,341
    edited February 2014

    Carnyx said:

    Much of that 12x factor quoted ad nauseam by Mr Osborne.......
    S&P cite 12.5 - the reason I posted a link to the whole report is that the S&P conclusion that 'Scotland could make a go of it, but it might be tricky at first' is EXACTLY what the SNP has been denying for years - it will be "automatic EU membership, use of the GBP, lower taxes and higher spending a land of social justice, milk & honey" in complete contrast to what many of the 'Unionists' have been pointing out....and been denounced as anti-Scottish, Scots-haters, and the rest, for their pains.....

    That summary of the report is perhaps a little more downbeat than the actual report itself but no doubt that is influenced by the current threats and obstruction that we are seeing. Ntoehr quotation is an actual quotation, of course (which is why I never use scare quotes anyway, they can be misunderstood ...). The last time Mr Salmond talked about oil and whisky being piped into every home was that it was a joke! But if we can do better than the appalling management of the UK economy by UK governments that will be something. And I recall that for many, many years, until very recently, the Unionists said firmly that we were too poor and too incapable even to think about becoming independent.
  • Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    I expect the tanks in Bath & Gloucester are warming their engines as we speak:

    Bristol Mayor George Ferguson yesterday positioned the city as an attractive base for any Scottish financial firms considering their future over uncertainty about Scottish independence.

    Standard Life, one of Scotland’s biggest employers, yesterday announced it is considering moving some of its operations out of the country as part of contingency plans being lined up in the event of a vote in favour of independence.


    http://www.southwestbusiness.co.uk/news/28022014151035-bristol-opens-its-arms-to-scottish-business/


    I take it you did read the actual statement by Standard Life? It has had a lot of burden placed on it that it cannot bear on actual reading - though what briefing behind the scenes has taken place is another matter.

    Of course SL will need to open an EWNI office, at the very least for regulatory purposes . But move or make redundant 5000 experienced staff? All of them? When the value of the shares/investments is unaffected by the location of the staff? When we don't know the differential regulatory regimes, above all the result of the EU referendum? And when the nameplate of a function is nowhere like the same as its physical organization? I recently had to deal with a power of attorney document for an elderly relative, and the Bank of Scotland department dealing with it was in Bristol of all places.

    They are not remotely interested in actually reading the statement by Standard Life.
    Let me guess - who was the first to post a link to the report - a Nat or a 'Unionist'?
    Well, I stressed the need to read the actual report first, so it was kind of Ms Vance to find the link for me. And I am not a SNP member.

    It would be ridiculous to describe you as a "Nat", it's perfectly clear from your postings that you remain open-minded and undecided on SIndy.

  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited February 2014
    Once again Farage has the incompetent Cameron to thank for another Cast Iron PLedge backfiring in his face and giving Farage a massive open goal to appeal to tory kipper waverers.
    Telegraph News ‏@TelegraphNews 5m

    Mass immigration has left Britain 'unrecognisable', says Nigel Farage http://fw.to/MuCIyqM
    If Crosby and the chumocracy's aim was to give Farage the easiest ammunition he could ever dream of then mission accomplished.
    Will Jennings ‏@drjennings

    Latest migration figures leave Cameron pledge 'in tatters' <= net migration always a stupid pledge, target, policy... http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-camerons-migration-pledge-in-tatters-as-figures-reveal-net-immigration-of-200000-9157334.html … </p>



  • Carnyx said:

    I expect the tanks in Bath & Gloucester are warming their engines as we speak:

    Bristol Mayor George Ferguson yesterday positioned the city as an attractive base for any Scottish financial firms considering their future over uncertainty about Scottish independence.

    Standard Life, one of Scotland’s biggest employers, yesterday announced it is considering moving some of its operations out of the country as part of contingency plans being lined up in the event of a vote in favour of independence.


    http://www.southwestbusiness.co.uk/news/28022014151035-bristol-opens-its-arms-to-scottish-business/


    I take it you did read the actual statement by Standard Life? It has had a lot of burden placed on it that it cannot bear on actual reading - though what briefing behind the scenes has taken place is another matter.

    Of course SL will need to open an EWNI office, at the very least for regulatory purposes . But move or make redundant 5000 experienced staff? All of them? When the value of the shares/investments is unaffected by the location of the staff? When we don't know the differential regulatory regimes, above all the result of the EU referendum? And when the nameplate of a function is nowhere like the same as its physical organization? I recently had to deal with a power of attorney document for an elderly relative, and the Bank of Scotland department dealing with it was in Bristol of all places.

    They are not remotely interested in actually reading the statement by Standard Life.
    Writes someone who demonstrably hadn't read the report (if yet) until
    a Unionist posted a link to it....

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Mick_Pork said:

    Once again Farage has the incompetent Cameron to thank for another Cast Iron PLedge backfiring in his face and giving Farage a massive open goal to appeal to tory kipper waverers.

    Telegraph News ‏@TelegraphNews 5m

    Mass immigration has left Britain 'unrecognisable', says Nigel Farage http://fw.to/MuCIyqM
    If Crosby and the chumocracy's aim was to give Farage the easiest ammunition he could ever dream of then mission accomplished.
    Will Jennings ‏@drjennings

    Latest migration figures leave Cameron pledge 'in tatters' <= net migration always a stupid pledge, target, policy... http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-camerons-migration-pledge-in-tatters-as-figures-reveal-net-immigration-of-200000-9157334.html … </p>





    But UKIP also has a fantastic unique selling point, or USP as they say in marketing. It is the only national party which unequivocally wants to leave the EU.

    That simple clear message cuts through where the other parties hedge.

    Even David Cameron, despite his promise of a referendum, is clear he wants to stay in the EU.

    And when yesterday’s immigration rise can be put down almost entirely to migrants from within the EU, the UKIP demand has even more resonance.

    You can only control immigration if you control your borders and you can only control your borders if you leave the EU.

    This is a marvelously simple message on the doorsteps which the other parties will find hard to counter.

    http://www.channel5.com/shows/5-news/blogs/ukips-lack-of-diversity-doesnt-matter-for-now
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262

    Carnyx said:

    I expect the tanks in Bath & Gloucester are warming their engines as we speak:

    Bristol Mayor George Ferguson yesterday positioned the city as an attractive base for any Scottish financial firms considering their future over uncertainty about Scottish independence.

    Standard Life, one of Scotland’s biggest employers, yesterday announced it is considering moving some of its operations out of the country as part of contingency plans being lined up in the event of a vote in favour of independence.


    http://www.southwestbusiness.co.uk/news/28022014151035-bristol-opens-its-arms-to-scottish-business/

    I take it you did read the actual statement by Standard Life? It has had a lot of burden placed on it that it cannot bear on actual reading - though what briefing behind the scenes has taken place is another matter.
    Since I posted a link to it - yes.

    And I have to say it was more accurately represented by the FT than by the 'Business for Scotland' link you posted - which skated over the caveats.

    In the short term I doubt Standard Life would seek to relocate 5000 jobs to rUK.

    However, having most of their operations based where most of their business is does have a sort of remorseless logic to it.....
    All that lovely Corporation Tax will be more than welcomed soùth of the border in the interim.

    It's funny how Standard Life (HQ Scotland, 90% business mainly in England) is Scottish, but RBS (HQ Scotland, 90% business mainly in England) is treated as being English by the some of the more vociferous Nats.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    isam said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    Once again Farage has the incompetent Cameron to thank for another Cast Iron PLedge backfiring in his face and giving Farage a massive open goal to appeal to tory kipper waverers.

    Telegraph News ‏@TelegraphNews 5m

    Mass immigration has left Britain 'unrecognisable', says Nigel Farage http://fw.to/MuCIyqM
    If Crosby and the chumocracy's aim was to give Farage the easiest ammunition he could ever dream of then mission accomplished.
    Will Jennings ‏@drjennings

    Latest migration figures leave Cameron pledge 'in tatters' <= net migration always a stupid pledge, target, policy... http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-camerons-migration-pledge-in-tatters-as-figures-reveal-net-immigration-of-200000-9157334.html … </p>





    But UKIP also has a fantastic unique selling point, or USP as they say in marketing. It is the only national party which unequivocally wants to leave the EU.

    That simple clear message cuts through where the other parties hedge.

    I guarantee you right now that Farage has read the polling on issue salience and he's going to go huge on immigration come the Clegg Debate publicity bonanza. Obviously he'll link it to leaving the EU but last May's local elections were crystal clear about just how good an issue immigration is for Farage and just how bad it is for Cammie and little Ed.

    The leaflets on Cammie's Cast Iron Immigration Pledge in tatters are also extraordinarily easy to write, use and appeal to disaffected tories.

  • O/T
    It's a mega game tomorrow for Burnley, at home vs Derby County. If they win, they will be 5 points clear in second place and will look very likely for promotion to the Promised Land. Lose and they'll slip to 3rd place, one point behind the Rams, with everything still to play for.
    Squeaky bum time.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,341

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    I expect the tanks in Bath & Gloucester are warming their engines as we speak:

    Bristol Mayor George Ferguson yesterday positioned the city as an attractive base for any Scottish financial firms considering their future over uncertainty about Scottish independence.

    Standard Life, one of Scotland’s biggest employers, yesterday announced it is considering moving some of its operations out of the country as part of contingency plans being lined up in the event of a vote in favour of independence.


    http://www.southwestbusiness.co.uk/news/28022014151035-bristol-opens-its-arms-to-scottish-business/


    I take it you did read the actual statement by Standard Life? It has had a lot of burden placed on it that it cannot bear on actual reading - though what briefing behind the scenes has taken place is another matter.

    Of course SL will need to open an EWNI office, at the very least for regulatory purposes . But move or make redundant 5000 experienced staff? All of them? When the value of the shares/investments is unaffected by the location of the staff? When we don't know the differential regulatory regimes, above all the result of the EU referendum? And when the nameplate of a function is nowhere like the same as its physical organization? I recently had to deal with a power of attorney document for an elderly relative, and the Bank of Scotland department dealing with it was in Bristol of all places.

    They are not remotely interested in actually reading the statement by Standard Life.
    Let me guess - who was the first to post a link to the report - a Nat or a 'Unionist'?
    Well, I stressed the need to read the actual report first, so it was kind of Ms Vance to find the link for me. And I am not a SNP member.

    It would be ridiculous to describe you as a "Nat", it's perfectly clear from your postings that you remain open-minded and undecided on SIndy.

    If you think that is a logical connection then perhaps we had better not discuss the matter!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    isam said:

    Yes to be fair the East End of London has always been like a foreign country my whole life really, just more so now than ever. I think if you aren't from the area and move in then it must be great, but if it was your families home and now its unrecognisable then that must make you a bit sad.

    Personally I am from Essex borders of London, so not really my problem, Im just empathising with people that do live there and cant afford to move (old poor pensioners mainly) When I lived in central London I did quite like the diversity, but I think that's because it wasn't where Id call home.. I would say the depiction of East London in EastEnders is more like Romford or Hornchurch than Inner London.. its almost racist of the BBC to depict Walford as so overwhelmingly white British

    From 1997 to 2003 I lived in Aldgate, and from 2003 to 2008 I lived in Marylebone. The latter area was the London place where poor immigrants had - in wave after wave - found themselves. From Hugenots, to Eastern European Jewry to Pakistanis to Bangladeshis. Now, of course, they're being priced out the market by bearded hipsters. Brick Lane used to have two strip clubs (one adjacent to a majority Muslim primary school), and lots of cheap curry houses. (My friends and I used to reckon we could eat out, along with a pint of Kingfisher, for less than £10.) Now it's increasingly gentrified (and the strip clubs are no more). There is a posh French bistro on Brick Lane, and the curry houses are no longer as cheap as they were. Half of the Bangladeshi convenience stores have gone, to be replaced by Oddbins.

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Fantastic to see Curtly Ambrose, Richie Richardson and Andy Roberts knighted today in Antigua:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/26392726
  • VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,550
    Populus average polls for Feb (since the methodology change) have C32.7 L37.3 LD9.6 U13.6. Over the seven polls the standard deviation has reduced, compared with the previous polls, with the 95% confidence limits being +-1.5, 1.9, 1.5 & 2.2 respectively.

    The change since Jan (including both real and methodological impacts) are +0.2%, -2.3%, -1.9%, +4.7%.

    On the change data since 2010 the impact has to reduce same party% (ie C-C -1.4% or L-L -2.4% or LD-LD - 3.9%) with UKIP gaining 3.4%, 1.8%, 3.3% respectively. Again beware methodological change impacts.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:

    Yes to be fair the East End of London has always been like a foreign country my whole life really, just more so now than ever. I think if you aren't from the area and move in then it must be great, but if it was your families home and now its unrecognisable then that must make you a bit sad.

    Personally I am from Essex borders of London, so not really my problem, Im just empathising with people that do live there and cant afford to move (old poor pensioners mainly) When I lived in central London I did quite like the diversity, but I think that's because it wasn't where Id call home.. I would say the depiction of East London in EastEnders is more like Romford or Hornchurch than Inner London.. its almost racist of the BBC to depict Walford as so overwhelmingly white British

    From 1997 to 2003 I lived in Aldgate, and from 2003 to 2008 I lived in Marylebone. The latter area was the London place where poor immigrants had - in wave after wave - found themselves. From Hugenots, to Eastern European Jewry to Pakistanis to Bangladeshis. Now, of course, they're being priced out the market by bearded hipsters. Brick Lane used to have two strip clubs (one adjacent to a majority Muslim primary school), and lots of cheap curry houses. (My friends and I used to reckon we could eat out, along with a pint of Kingfisher, for less than £10.) Now it's increasingly gentrified (and the strip clubs are no more). There is a posh French bistro on Brick Lane, and the curry houses are no longer as cheap as they were. Half of the Bangladeshi convenience stores have gone, to be replaced by Oddbins.

    You mean the former? Youre talking about Aldgate I assume

    You're saying Brick Lane and the surrounding areas are not overwhelmingly Asian?
  • Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Much of that 12x factor quoted ad nauseam by Mr Osborne.......
    S&P cite 12.5 - the reason I posted a link to the whole report is that the S&P conclusion that 'Scotland could make a go of it, but it might be tricky at first' is EXACTLY what the SNP has been denying for years - it will be "automatic EU membership, use of the GBP, lower taxes and higher spending a land of social justice, milk & honey" in complete contrast to what many of the 'Unionists' have been pointing out....and been denounced as anti-Scottish, Scots-haters, and the rest, for their pains.....

    Unionists said firmly that we were too poor and too incapable even to think about becoming independent.
    A Nat straw man - no need for you to, but I'm sure Stuart Dickson has a battery of quotes from senior UK politicians saying that.

    To me the bigger mystery is why Salmond rejected the 'protestant work ethic' strategy of 'it'll be tough, but we can do it' in favour of the 'don't scare the horses, nothing will change' option - which has opened up his case to the barrage of well deserved criticism....something the former would have avoided almost entirely 'What about X?' 'We never said it would be easy, but we have confidence in the Scots & Scotland'. Instead we get 'What about X?' 'X does not exist, we are not interested in X, how dare you lecture us about X.....and on, and on....
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,989
    Evening all :)

    Sitting in East Ham and as a regular user of the District Line, I listen with wry amusement to Nigel Farage's comment about not hearing an English conversation until after Grove Park.

    I suppose it's one of the dubious triumphs of modern technology that tube trains (especially on the surface) are noisier than they used to be. As I travel around 7am, I can vouch for the fact that the trains are full - mainly, I suspect, with labourers from eastern Europe heading for the various building sites in and around central London, whether Crossrail or whatever.
  • stodge said:


    Sitting in East Ham and as a regular user of the District Line, I listen with wry amusement to Nigel Farage's comment about not hearing an English conversation until after Grove Park.

    What strikes me about the tube is that if I shut my eyes I would have no clue to the ethnicity of those chattering - in English - around me.....
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Time for the scottish tory surger old biddies to start working on that jumble sale.
    That’s right – the latest desperate plea for cash from the No camp is a chain letter.

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/feeling-the-fear/

    *chortle*
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Spitalfields (Brick Lane area) was the only ward in the whole of London where the white British proportion increased between 2001 and 2011.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "The England dressing room will be a better place without Kevin Pietersen, says wicketkeeper Matt Prior.
    Pietersen was discarded by the England and Wales Cricket Board following the woeful Ashes tour.
    "They only want people in that dressing room that are going to be passionate about England winning and performing," Prior, 32, said at an event in Dubai.
    Pietersen responded by writing on Twitter: "Fewer Q&A's, more Sussex nets methinks, Matt Prior!"

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/26382742
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    isam said:

    rcs1000 said:

    isam said:

    Yes to be fair the East End of London has always been like a foreign country my whole life really, just more so now than ever. I think if you aren't from the area and move in then it must be great, but if it was your families home and now its unrecognisable then that must make you a bit sad.

    Personally I am from Essex borders of London, so not really my problem, Im just empathising with people that do live there and cant afford to move (old poor pensioners mainly) When I lived in central London I did quite like the diversity, but I think that's because it wasn't where Id call home.. I would say the depiction of East London in EastEnders is more like Romford or Hornchurch than Inner London.. its almost racist of the BBC to depict Walford as so overwhelmingly white British

    From 1997 to 2003 I lived in Aldgate, and from 2003 to 2008 I lived in Marylebone. The latter area was the London place where poor immigrants had - in wave after wave - found themselves. From Hugenots, to Eastern European Jewry to Pakistanis to Bangladeshis. Now, of course, they're being priced out the market by bearded hipsters. Brick Lane used to have two strip clubs (one adjacent to a majority Muslim primary school), and lots of cheap curry houses. (My friends and I used to reckon we could eat out, along with a pint of Kingfisher, for less than £10.) Now it's increasingly gentrified (and the strip clubs are no more). There is a posh French bistro on Brick Lane, and the curry houses are no longer as cheap as they were. Half of the Bangladeshi convenience stores have gone, to be replaced by Oddbins.

    You mean the former? Youre talking about Aldgate I assume

    You're saying Brick Lane and the surrounding areas are not overwhelmingly Asian?
    It's still majority Asian. But it's gone from 90% when I was there to 60% today
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited February 2014
    AndyJS said:

    Spitalfields (Brick Lane area) was the only ward in the whole of London where the white British proportion increased between 2001 and 2011.

    to be fair to @rcs1000 there is a kind of trendy part to the East End that is gentrified, and I wouldn't be surprised if the "doughnut " effect was now more of a Belgian Bun, ie rich white British in the very centre of London, overwhelmingly non British up to about Zone 5, then overwhelmingly white British in the areas just inside the M25

    Tower Hamlets is almost a perfect example of a segregated borough isn't it?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,989

    stodge said:


    Sitting in East Ham and as a regular user of the District Line, I listen with wry amusement to Nigel Farage's comment about not hearing an English conversation until after Grove Park.

    What strikes me about the tube is that if I shut my eyes I would have no clue to the ethnicity of those chattering - in English - around me.....
    Hence my wry amusement. The origins and the language may be varied but those on the tube at 7am are one and the same - all off to work and earn money. A universal language, one might argue.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,469

    AndyJS said:

    Beestonia's 300th post:

    http://beestonia.wordpress.com/

    Broxtowe's most successful blogger - he has a huge following locally, reaching a younger audience who shun the weightier blogs that Ms Soubry and I offer.

    Whilst you are on Nick, who are the 'nastiest' posters you eluded to the previous day?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    My friends ( A Spark @Hugh !!!) facebook timeline

    I'M currently working on a site with about 20 blokes and I can't understand a F-ing word anyone is saying being as I'm the only English bloke! Think I'm going to have to turn the radio up a notch....

    I f-ing hate the district line with a passion . Rather be in a car on the m25 stuck in traffic with Ivo and Wilko who speak the some language as me .
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited February 2014
    A Nat straw man - no need for you to, but I'm sure Stuart Dickson has a battery of quotes from senior UK politicians saying that.

    To me the bigger mystery is why Salmond rejected the 'protestant work ethic' strategy of 'it'll be tough, but we can do it' in favour of the 'don't scare the horses, nothing will change' option - which has opened up his case to the barrage of well deserved criticism....something the former would have avoided almost entirely 'What about X?' 'We never said it would be easy, but we have confidence in the Scots & Scotland'. Instead we get 'What about X?' 'X does not exist, we are not interested in X, how dare you lecture us about X.....and on, and on....




    As a matter of interest, has anyone ever used the phrase "too wee, too poor and too stupid" apart from the Nats themselves?
  • isam said:

    'Mass immigration has left Britain 'unrecognisable', says Nigel Farage'
    - In one of his strongest attacks on immigration policy, Ukip leader says country has been "taken over" by foreigners

    He said: "So the answer is, I don't feel very comfortable in that situation and I don't think the majority of British people do.
    "It doesn't mean I'm against anybody of different backgrounds or different cultures - far from it. I want us to have a sensible, open-minded immigration policy.
    "But I think that what we've got, or what we've had, certainly, and what we continue to have when it comes to the EU is just wholly irresponsible.
    "I think it's done great damage to the cohesion of our society and the well-being of working people in this country."
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/10668996/Mass-immigration-has-left-Britain-unrecognisable-says-Nigel-Farage.html
    He is right, that is commonplace in London/on trains coming into/out of London

    I was on the bus from Marylebone to Aldgate last week and there were three people sitting around me on their mobiles, none of them speaking English... it is the norm. Get the district line from London to the suburbs, and English starts becoming the main language at about Dagenham East

    I went out in Dalston a couple of weeks ago, and coming out of Stratford station it struck me that no one I passed was talking English.. it is like being in a foreign country

    Fair play, that's what Labour wanted to achieve. But not telling anyone they were going to do it, then calling anyone who complained racist isn't cricket




    I went to see a client in Whitechapel the other week, coming out of the station you would not know what country you are in.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Before we forget, but who can: The 2012 budget simply proved that the Tories is a party
    "of the rich, by the rich and for the rich"

    Someone once said something similar.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    A Nat straw man - no need for you to, but I'm sure Stuart Dickson has a battery of quotes from senior UK politicians saying that.

    To me the bigger mystery is why Salmond rejected the 'protestant work ethic' strategy of 'it'll be tough, but we can do it' in favour of the 'don't scare the horses, nothing will change' option - which has opened up his case to the barrage of well deserved criticism....something the former would have avoided almost entirely 'What about X?' 'We never said it would be easy, but we have confidence in the Scots & Scotland'. Instead we get 'What about X?' 'X does not exist, we are not interested in X, how dare you lecture us about X.....and on, and on....




    As a matter of interest, has anyone ever used the phrase "too wee, too poor and too stupid" apart from the Nats themselves?

    Worse. The price of independence ? 600 quid, mate !
  • Lennon said:

    Mr. Lennon, the extremes of brain power are phenomenal. There are more connections between an average man's brain cells than there are stars in the sky.

    Unfortunately, high intelligence also has a high comorbidity with psych conditions.

    True - but the link wasn't about any individual, it was a program which displays things in such a way that 500wpm is normal for everyone once you get used to it - I just thought that it was pretty cool and one of very few things where I go 'I want that now, on every device I have...'
    500wpm is not that much. I was tested at school and found to be reading at 800 to 900wpm (and my 8 year old daughter exhibits the same problem).

    The context of the test was that the school offered a speed reading course that raised one's speed potentially to about 1200wpm, although with loss of comprehension. The 1200wpm technique is based on the idea that when you read, your eyes skip across the page taking in groups of words. If instead you consciously look at a point 1/4 and 3/4 of the way into each line, you take in almost all the words, but in the most efficient possible way. When you get a bit you need to absorb properly, you go back to your normal technique. We were tested before and after, and practiced on newspaper columns because they're narrower than book pages.

    If anything I think I've got faster since. I call this a 'problem' because holiday reading matter was a real pain - I need 2 Tom Knox sized novels a day if I'm going to be sitting around on a beach. 3 weeks away involved packing 30 paperbacks. Just finding 30 I wanted to read was a hassle (I did an English degree so by the time I was 22 I had read, basically, everything).

    Kindles and military history help. I cannot slow down. If I do I absorb less.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Lovely 100 from Lumb
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Talking about immigrants: a young Bulgarian did some work for us. 2 hours - 20 quid. Very good work too. When asked, he said he is prepared to do any work , any time !

    That's what I like.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    surbiton said:

    Before we forget, but who can: The 2012 budget simply proved that the Tories is a party
    "of the rich, by the rich and for the rich"

    Someone once said something similar.

    Was it Blair?

    :)
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371

    isam said:

    'Mass immigration has left Britain 'unrecognisable', says Nigel Farage'
    - In one of his strongest attacks on immigration policy, Ukip leader says country has been "taken over" by foreigners

    He said: "So the answer is, I don't feel very comfortable in that situation and I don't think the majority of British people do.
    "It doesn't mean I'm against anybody of different backgrounds or different cultures - far from it. I want us to have a sensible, open-minded immigration policy.
    "But I think that what we've got, or what we've had, certainly, and what we continue to have when it comes to the EU is just wholly irresponsible.
    "I think it's done great damage to the cohesion of our society and the well-being of working people in this country."
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/10668996/Mass-immigration-has-left-Britain-unrecognisable-says-Nigel-Farage.html
    He is right, that is commonplace in London/on trains coming into/out of London

    I was on the bus from Marylebone to Aldgate last week and there were three people sitting around me on their mobiles, none of them speaking English... it is the norm. Get the district line from London to the suburbs, and English starts becoming the main language at about Dagenham East

    I went out in Dalston a couple of weeks ago, and coming out of Stratford station it struck me that no one I passed was talking English.. it is like being in a foreign country

    Fair play, that's what Labour wanted to achieve. But not telling anyone they were going to do it, then calling anyone who complained racist isn't cricket


    I went to see a client in Whitechapel the other week, coming out of the station you would not know what country you are in.

    I always said that there was an over reliance on satnavs these days.
  • AndyJS said:

    "The England dressing room will be a better place without Kevin Pietersen, says wicketkeeper Matt Prior.
    Pietersen was discarded by the England and Wales Cricket Board following the woeful Ashes tour.
    "They only want people in that dressing room that are going to be passionate about England winning and performing," Prior, 32, said at an event in Dubai.
    Pietersen responded by writing on Twitter: "Fewer Q&A's, more Sussex nets methinks, Matt Prior!"

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/26382742

    Kind of says it all, really. Obviously, the dressing room will really be a better place for the addition of another Yorkshireman.
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    edited February 2014
    surbiton said:

    Before we forget, but who can: The 2012 budget simply proved that the Tories is a party
    "of the rich, by the rich and for the rich"

    Someone once said something similar.

    Was it Osborne or Cameron?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,989
    I really don't understand this pre-occupation with language. Many countries are bi-lingual or even multi-lingual. Go to California and you'll hear as much Spanish as you will English.

    In any case, I'm pleased not to have to understand other people's banal conversations. It's bad enough when you do hear someone saying "I'll be home in 10 minutes. Have you put the dinner on?" It's probably no better in Serbo-Croat or Punjabi.

    Listening to people talking about their sister's dog or their cousin's bunions is bad enough in English - at least if you can't understand what's being said, you're spared the details. At 7am, when people are calling their families in India, you'd better believe the trivialities of family life are more than I cope with at that hour of the day.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,469
    edited February 2014

    isam said:

    'Mass immigration has left Britain 'unrecognisable', says Nigel Farage'
    - In one of his strongest attacks on immigration policy, Ukip leader says country has been "taken over" by foreigners

    He said: "So the answer is, I don't feel very comfortable in that situation and I don't think the majority of British people do.
    "It doesn't mean I'm against anybody of different backgrounds or different cultures - far from it. I want us to have a sensible, open-minded immigration policy.
    "But I think that what we've got, or what we've had, certainly, and what we continue to have when it comes to the EU is just wholly irresponsible.
    "I think it's done great damage to the cohesion of our society and the well-being of working people in this country."
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/10668996/Mass-immigration-has-left-Britain-unrecognisable-says-Nigel-Farage.html
    He is right, that is commonplace in London/on trains coming into/out of London

    I was on the bus from Marylebone to Aldgate last week and there were three people sitting around me on their mobiles, none of them speaking English... it is the norm. Get the district line from London to the suburbs, and English starts becoming the main language at about Dagenham East

    I went out in Dalston a couple of weeks ago, and coming out of Stratford station it struck me that no one I passed was talking English.. it is like being in a foreign country

    Fair play, that's what Labour wanted to achieve. But not telling anyone they were going to do it, then calling anyone who complained racist isn't cricket
    I went to see a client in Whitechapel the other week, coming out of the station you would not know what country you are in.
    I always said that there was an over reliance on satnavs these days.

    I've got a funny story about a friend who was seriously ill - sadly both with a mental breakdown and with a physical illness - who tried to negotiate Whitechapel tube station in a wheelchair, after 'escaping' from the hospital across the road. Anyone who knows the station can guess how well that turned out ...

    I lived in Stepney Green for a year twenty years ago, and we walked from Mile End into central London a month or so ago. If anything, the Whitechapel area has improved. For one thing, there's no longer second-hand white goods being sold on the pavement near the Blind Beggar.

    And I'm being serious. It has improved massively. For one thing, the white (English) thugs seem to have disappeared, and so has the ANL graffiti ;-)
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    'Mass immigration has left Britain 'unrecognisable', says Nigel Farage'
    - In one of his strongest attacks on immigration policy, Ukip leader says country has been "taken over" by foreigners

    He said: "So the answer is, I don't feel very comfortable in that situation and I don't think the majority of British people do.
    "It doesn't mean I'm against anybody of different backgrounds or different cultures - far from it. I want us to have a sensible, open-minded immigration policy.
    "But I think that what we've got, or what we've had, certainly, and what we continue to have when it comes to the EU is just wholly irresponsible.
    "I think it's done great damage to the cohesion of our society and the well-being of working people in this country."
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/10668996/Mass-immigration-has-left-Britain-unrecognisable-says-Nigel-Farage.html
    He is right, that is commonplace in London/on trains coming into/out of London

    I was on the bus from Marylebone to Aldgate last week and there were three people sitting around me on their mobiles, none of them speaking English... it is the norm. Get the district line from London to the suburbs, and English starts becoming the main language at about Dagenham East

    I went out in Dalston a couple of weeks ago, and coming out of Stratford station it struck me that no one I passed was talking English.. it is like being in a foreign country

    Fair play, that's what Labour wanted to achieve. But not telling anyone they were going to do it, then calling anyone who complained racist isn't cricket
    I went to see a client in Whitechapel the other week, coming out of the station you would not know what country you are in.
    I always said that there was an over reliance on satnavs these days.
    I've got a funny story about a friend who was seriously ill - sadly both with a mental breakdown and with a physical illness - who tried to negotiate Whitechapel tube station in a wheelchair, after 'escaping' from the hospital across the road. Anyone who knows the station can guess how well that turned out ...

    I lived in Stepney Green for a year twenty years ago, and we walked from Mile End into central London a month or so ago. If anything, the Whitechapel area has improved. For one thing, there's no longer second-hand white goods being sold on the pavement near the Blind Beggar.

    And I'm being serious. It has improved massively. For one thing, the white (English) thugs seem to have disappeared, and so has the ANL graffiti ;-)

    Youre basing this fantastic change on one visit?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    stodge said:

    I really don't understand this pre-occupation with language. Many countries are bi-lingual or even multi-lingual. Go to California and you'll hear as much Spanish as you will English.

    In any case, I'm pleased not to have to understand other people's banal conversations. It's bad enough when you do hear someone saying "I'll be home in 10 minutes. Have you put the dinner on?" It's probably no better in Serbo-Croat or Punjabi.

    Listening to people talking about their sister's dog or their cousin's bunions is bad enough in English - at least if you can't understand what's being said, you're spared the details. At 7am, when people are calling their families in India, you'd better believe the trivialities of family life are more than I cope with at that hour of the day.

    If you are happy with 22% of Londoners not having English as their first language, then good for you. But plenty of other people are not really comfortable with it, and think that having communities separated by language doesn't make for a cohesive society.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,469
    I'm feeling blooming well short-changed. I've been hopefully staring out my window for the last couple of nights and there's been no Aurora Borealis to be seen. I'd love to see it, if only because a dear friend has spent the last two Decembers in Norway in attempts to see it (finally successfully last year), and I'd love to say that I'd seen it from the comfort of my own bedroom. ;-)

    Here's a manifesto commitment: one guaranteed aurora each year. At least it would help us reduce the nuclear weapons stockpiles. It might have a rather detrimental effect on electronic equipment, though ... ;-)
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Bit off topic, but I thought this video may amuse, taken from a link in Pulse:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNJl9EEcsoE

    I think that the original was from the ACLU
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,469
    isam said:


    I've got a funny story about a friend who was seriously ill - sadly both with a mental breakdown and with a physical illness - who tried to negotiate Whitechapel tube station in a wheelchair, after 'escaping' from the hospital across the road. Anyone who knows the station can guess how well that turned out ...

    I lived in Stepney Green for a year twenty years ago, and we walked from Mile End into central London a month or so ago. If anything, the Whitechapel area has improved. For one thing, there's no longer second-hand white goods being sold on the pavement near the Blind Beggar.

    And I'm being serious. It has improved massively. For one thing, the white (English) thugs seem to have disappeared, and so has the ANL graffiti ;-)

    Youre basing this fantastic change on one visit?
    Nope, been back there many times over the years, for instance to visit the fantastic Whitechapel art gallery.

    And believe me, it appears to have improved. I'm talking in the last 21 years. How long have you known that area?
  • compouter2compouter2 Posts: 2,371
    isam said:

    stodge said:

    I really don't understand this pre-occupation with language. Many countries are bi-lingual or even multi-lingual. Go to California and you'll hear as much Spanish as you will English.

    In any case, I'm pleased not to have to understand other people's banal conversations. It's bad enough when you do hear someone saying "I'll be home in 10 minutes. Have you put the dinner on?" It's probably no better in Serbo-Croat or Punjabi.

    Listening to people talking about their sister's dog or their cousin's bunions is bad enough in English - at least if you can't understand what's being said, you're spared the details. At 7am, when people are calling their families in India, you'd better believe the trivialities of family life are more than I cope with at that hour of the day.

    If you are happy with 22% of Londoners not having English as their first language, then good for you. But plenty of other people are not really comfortable with it, and think that having communities separated by language doesn't make for a cohesive society.
    Even the English don't speak English, have you tried to decipher broad cockney?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,469
    isam said:

    stodge said:

    I really don't understand this pre-occupation with language. Many countries are bi-lingual or even multi-lingual. Go to California and you'll hear as much Spanish as you will English.

    In any case, I'm pleased not to have to understand other people's banal conversations. It's bad enough when you do hear someone saying "I'll be home in 10 minutes. Have you put the dinner on?" It's probably no better in Serbo-Croat or Punjabi.

    Listening to people talking about their sister's dog or their cousin's bunions is bad enough in English - at least if you can't understand what's being said, you're spared the details. At 7am, when people are calling their families in India, you'd better believe the trivialities of family life are more than I cope with at that hour of the day.

    If you are happy with 22% of Londoners not having English as their first language, then good for you. But plenty of other people are not really comfortable with it, and think that having communities separated by language doesn't make for a cohesive society.
    I'm happy with any percentage of Londoners not having English as a first language. What matters is if they have it as a good 2-n'th language.

    I.e. the ability to communicate matters, and you can do that perfectly well even if you are foreign. As an example: English is Mrs J's second language, and yet people sometimes understand her over me.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,989
    isam said:


    If you are happy with 22% of Londoners not having English as their first language, then good for you. But plenty of other people are not really comfortable with it, and think that having communities separated by language doesn't make for a cohesive society.

    Yes, doesn't bother me at all. I'm concerned about those who deliberately make no effort to learn English but the Polish and other Baltic tradesmen I've used know enough to get by and make their way and that's all that's needed.

    I don't understand what "plenty of other people are not really comfortable with it" means - is this based on empirical evidence, a poll of ten friends of yours or just your own pre-conceptions and assumptions ?

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