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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Is it Bye-bye to by-elections?
This is a two-part series bringing to your attention the decline of the humble Westminster by-election over the last 100 years. In Part 1, I will discuss how the reasons for triggering by-elections have changed since 1918. In Part 2, I will discuss in more detail the phenomenon (or lack) of MPs resigning and re-contesting their seats over principle or when they change party allegiance.
Comments
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First. Like the mighty Everton.0
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Nice stats. I hope for innocent reasons we get a pick up in by elections. They break up the day to day monotony.0
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Interesting article Sunil.
We need fewer career politicians and more people with experience of life - as the latter will have done proper jobs and be older they might be more likely to die in office thus creating more by election opportunities?
Or we pass a new law saying if you leave your party you must fight a by election?0 -
Aren't the current crop of MPs some of the oldest ever, or is that just the party leaders? I think we've simply had improvements in public health.brendan16 said:Interesting article Sunil.
We need fewer career politicians and more people with experience of life - as the latter will have done proper jobs and be older they might be more likely to die in office thus creating more by election opportunities?
Or we pass a new law saying if you leave your party you must fight a by election?0 -
Hopefully enough people in Peterborough are bothering to sign the recall petition. Just over one week left.0
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I think part of the reason will be that parties actively seek to avoid by-elections much more now than in the past. So an MP will normally hang on until the general election and then receive a Peerage later, or whatever else it might be.0
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Cheers for the header, Sunil!
Looks like we've hit a bit of a floor. The grim reaper is ever vigilant.0 -
I rather like the rule that MPs had to resign their seat and fight a by-election on being appointed a minister. What a wonderful extra complication.
To my mind all by-elections are good thing.0 -
in the race for seventh?dixiedean said:First. Like the mighty Everton.
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Interesting thread Sunil, but I think you will find universal suffrage was 1928 not 1918. 1918 was universal male suffrage (unless you were a conscientious objector).
Edit - also of course there were 4 by-elections in 1986 that were uncontested (leaving aside a joke candidate pretending to be the Irish Minister for Foreign Affairs).0 -
Lunch today heard some interesting Westminster gossip
No idea as to accuracy and was second hand so take it for what it’s worth
Rumour is Corbyn has cancer - assuming a near term election he will front campaign but McDonnell will take over after election. Longer term election who knows?0 -
Why did we never get any mention last year about it being 100 years since the introduction of universal male suffrage - the majority of young men sent to the trenches to their deaths during WWI didn't have the vote either as it was restricted to property owners and male heads of households (i.e. fathers not their young sons).ydoethur said:Interesting thread Sunil, but I think you will find universal suffrage was 1928 not 1918. 1918 was universal male suffrage (unless you were a conscientious objector).
Edit - also of course there were 4 by-elections in 1986 that were uncontested (leaving aside a joke candidate pretending to be the Irish Minister for Foreign Affairs).
Or wouldn't that suit the narrative - that in reality it wasn't the suffragettes breaking windows in London that got women the vote but the social change and pressure brought about by WWI (i.e. 1 million young men dying in the trenches and millions of working class women doing work in factories and mines that men had done before)?
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Yes. And by several laps over Man United today.initforthemoney said:
in the race for seventh?dixiedean said:First. Like the mighty Everton.
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Oh dear, I hope that rumour isn’t trueCharles said:Lunch today heard some interesting Westminster gossip
No idea as to accuracy and was second hand so take it for what it’s worth
Rumour is Corbyn has cancer - assuming a near term election he will front campaign but McDonnell will take over after election. Longer term election who knows?0 -
FPT:
If you read about the 4DDs you’ll learn that they weren’t terribly successful because the UK loading gauge (the distance lineside structures can be from the track and thus the maximum size of rail vehicles) is too small for true double deck vehicles: the 4DDs had to interleave their “downstairs” and “upstairs” compartments which were very cramped as a result. They also had very long dwell times at rush hour due to the time it took the upstairs passengers to get in and out.tlg86 said:
We used to have them:Luckyguy1983 said:My two pence on HS2, I think we should get two storey trains instead.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HgQM_v3mln0
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SR_Class_4DD
This is a result of the UK being the first to construct passenger railways on a large scale, with the earliest carriages being based on stagecoach designs, and so were stagecoach-sized (in height and width at least). This meant the positioning of lineside structures and so the loading gauge closely followed the vehicle sizes. Europe, the US and other places learnt from this and started with larger loading gauges, many of which are big enough for true double-deck vehicles (although even then some like the Long Island RR bi-levels feel somewhat cramped on the top deck).
HS2, like HS1 before it, is built to the full UIC (Union Internationale des Chemins de Fer) loading gauge and will support full double-deck cars like the TGV “duplexes”. There are also vague plans to increase the loading gauge on some of the SW London commuter routes, though I suspect what will actually be practical to do there will be so constrained that any d-d cars on those routes will feel pretty cramped.0 -
only because you can make money out of themMikeSmithson said:I rather like the rule that MPs had to resign their seat and fight a by-election on being appointed a minister. What a wonderful extra complication.
To my mind all by-elections are good thing.
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Ministerial by-elections were uncontested, aiui.MikeSmithson said:I rather like the rule that MPs had to resign their seat and fight a by-election on being appointed a minister. What a wonderful extra complication.
To my mind all by-elections are good thing.0 -
Browsing through the list on wikipedia (what I life I lead), it seems like a significant number were contested.DecrepitJohnL said:
Ministerial by-elections were uncontested, aiui.MikeSmithson said:I rather like the rule that MPs had to resign their seat and fight a by-election on being appointed a minister. What a wonderful extra complication.
To my mind all by-elections are good thing.0 -
FPT, there's an Italian Party called More Europe, campaigning for the Euros. That's what Change UK should call themselves.0
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FPT Asia Bibi is still in Pakistan in hiding because the wretched government won’t release her to either of the two countries who have offered her asylum.
And, yes, we should offer it too. Stuff those communities who would threaten the peace if she were allowed in.
How much aid do we give this ghastly country every year? Why don’t we bloody well use that soft power to protest about the appalling way Christians are treated there? There have been a number of attacks on churches and their congregations there as well.0 -
Well, that was of course the reality. The 1918 franchise was based effectively on War service, so all veterans got the vote (even the sixteen year olds) along with older women who were married and had therefore in theory born the heaviest burden.brendan16 said:Or wouldn't that suit the narrative - that in reality it wasn't the suffragettes breaking windows in London that got women the vote but the social change and pressure brought about by WWI (i.e. 1 million young men dying in the trenches and millions of working class women doing work in factories and mines that men had done before)?
That's also why COs were disenfranchised, of course, something DeGroot called 'an act of conspicuous pique.'
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So do I, for three reasons:-isam said:
Oh dear, I hope that rumour isn’t trueCharles said:Lunch today heard some interesting Westminster gossip
No idea as to accuracy and was second hand so take it for what it’s worth
Rumour is Corbyn has cancer - assuming a near term election he will front campaign but McDonnell will take over after election. Longer term election who knows?
1. Not nice for Corbyn.
2. McDonnell much more dangerous than Corbyn.
3. Sick of having PMs foisted on us by small numbers of the party faithful. First, Brown then May. Enough.0 -
Interesting article, Dr. Prasannan.0
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Great article Sunil.
Thanks.0 -
I think it was Nick Palmer who once explained that MPs’ pensions were very poor until the time of John Major’s Government, so a lot of them couldn’t afford to retire. So that’s another factor.0
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OT apologies for my tip of Luo Honghao to win his first match at the Crucible.
The kid has gone to pieces on the big stage...won't see that tenner again.0 -
I've assumed from the closeness of the senatorial race that Beto must have had something about him, but so far his run for the Dem nomination seems entirely beige, even charisma free.
https://twitter.com/BetoORourke/status/11199921478711869450 -
A young relatively good looking straight white Irish American family man with three kids - sadly for Beto its 2020 not 1960.Theuniondivvie said:I've assumed from the closeness of the senatorial race that Beto must have had something about him, but so far his run for the Dem nomination seems entirely beige, even charisma free.
https://twitter.com/BetoORourke/status/11199921478711869450 -
FPT
Thanks, that's really interesting. I note from the wiki article that in the main, the problems with the train came from clearance issues meaning the height of the carriages was limited and therefore the storeys were cramped and poorly ventilated. Those clever aussie trains appear to use the bits in between the wheels and have ample space. It would be ideal. If they could be built in the UK that would be even better. They'd be the routemaster bus of the new generation.tlg86 said:
We used to have them:Luckyguy1983 said:My two pence on HS2, I think we should get two storey trains instead.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HgQM_v3mln0
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SR_Class_4DD
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Would be interested to know his threshold for a pension to qualify as better than poor.NeilVW said:I think it was Nick Palmer who once explained that MPs’ pensions were very poor until the time of John Major’s Government, so a lot of them couldn’t afford to retire. So that’s another factor.
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A bit too much like a Simpsons couch gag.brendan16 said:
A young relatively good looking straight white Irish American family man with three kids - sadly for Beto its 2020 not 1960.Theuniondivvie said:I've assumed from the closeness of the senatorial race that Beto must have had something about him, but so far his run for the Dem nomination seems entirely beige, even charisma free.
https://twitter.com/BetoORourke/status/11199921478711869450 -
Interesting article Sunil, maybe the rise if more family friendly hours, less of a drinking culture ibn the Commons and the fact fewer MPs have done manual labour has had an impact as well. Increasingly MPs who do resign and force by elections do so to go into new posts elsewhere e.g. David Miliband and George Osborne0
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Not so. Winston Churchill lost his Manchester seat in 1908 caused by his appointment to the Cabinet as President of the Board of Trade. He then had to fight a second by election at Dundee.DecrepitJohnL said:
Ministerial by-elections were uncontested, aiui.MikeSmithson said:I rather like the rule that MPs had to resign their seat and fight a by-election on being appointed a minister. What a wonderful extra complication.
To my mind all by-elections are good thing.0 -
Isn't there also an issue with the width of the gauge and stability?Luckyguy1983 said:FPT
Thanks, that's really interesting. I note from the wiki article that in the main, the problems with the train came from clearance issues meaning the height of the carriages was limited and therefore the storeys were cramped and poorly ventilated. Those clever aussie trains appear to use the bits in between the wheels and have ample space. It would be ideal. If they could be built in the UK that would be even better. They'd be the routemaster bus of the new generation.tlg86 said:
We used to have them:Luckyguy1983 said:My two pence on HS2, I think we should get two storey trains instead.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HgQM_v3mln0
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SR_Class_4DD0 -
I think few would disagree. However that may well be happening, the point about weilding diplomatic influence is that by definition it is behind the scenes.Cyclefree said:FPT Asia Bibi is still in Pakistan in hiding because the wretched government won’t release her to either of the two countries who have offered her asylum.
And, yes, we should offer it too. Stuff those communities who would threaten the peace if she were allowed in.
How much aid do we give this ghastly country every year? Why don’t we bloody well use that soft power to protest about the appalling way Christians are treated there? There have been a number of attacks on churches and their congregations there as well.0 -
Thanks for the nice words, guys
(and thanks to Mike and TSE for publishing!)0 -
Mr. Dean, if betting were easy, no bookie could make a living. Easy for things to go awry (as I have proven in recent F1 seasons).0
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I don't believe that the Australian train is significantly taller - it goes down a lot lower, in between the wheels. Look at how low the lower windows are. It's brilliant.rpjs said:FPT:
If you read about the 4DDs you’ll learn that they weren’t terribly successful because the UK loading gauge (the distance lineside structures can be from the track and thus the maximum size of rail vehicles) is too small for true double deck vehicles: the 4DDs had to interleave their “downstairs” and “upstairs” compartments which were very cramped as a result. They also had very long dwell times at rush hour due to the time it took the upstairs passengers to get in and out.tlg86 said:
We used to have them:Luckyguy1983 said:My two pence on HS2, I think we should get two storey trains instead.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HgQM_v3mln0
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SR_Class_4DD
This is a result of the UK being the first to construct passenger railways on a large scale, with the earliest carriages being based on stagecoach designs, and so were stagecoach-sized (in height and width at least). This meant the positioning of lineside structures and so the loading gauge closely followed the vehicle sizes. Europe, the US and other places learnt from this and started with larger loading gauges, many of which are big enough for true double-deck vehicles (although even then some like the Long Island RR bi-levels feel somewhat cramped on the top deck).
HS2, like HS1 before it, is built to the full UIC (Union Internationale des Chemins de Fer) loading gauge and will support full double-deck cars like the TGV “duplexes”. There are also vague plans to increase the loading gauge on some of the SW London commuter routes, though I suspect what will actually be practical to do there will be so constrained that any d-d cars on those routes will feel pretty cramped.
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQBHXuTkvWvuSXoSDhgf7MxVXe6ssVawZulxZFu0dSSRLCnajIM-g0 -
Thanks for the article. I have learnt something new here in that I had wrongly assumed that Ministerial By elections ceased from 1918 - rather than 1926.0
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https://twitter.com/PeteButtigieg/status/1119945008973516800Theuniondivvie said:I've assumed from the closeness of the senatorial race that Beto must have had something about him, but so far his run for the Dem nomination seems entirely beige, even charisma free.
https://twitter.com/BetoORourke/status/11199921478711869450 -
So the Great Majority has become a small minority.
The closeness of the last three elections no doubt has something to do with the decline in optional by-elections too. Each MP makes a difference to the Parliamentary maths.0 -
Gag was certainly my reaction.Ishmael_Z said:
A bit too much like a Simpsons couch gag.brendan16 said:
A young relatively good looking straight white Irish American family man with three kids - sadly for Beto its 2020 not 1960.Theuniondivvie said:I've assumed from the closeness of the senatorial race that Beto must have had something about him, but so far his run for the Dem nomination seems entirely beige, even charisma free.
https://twitter.com/BetoORourke/status/11199921478711869450 -
French suburban trains, at least around Paris too. Also TGV https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNCF_TGV_DuplexLuckyguy1983 said:FPT
Thanks, that's really interesting. I note from the wiki article that in the main, the problems with the train came from clearance issues meaning the height of the carriages was limited and therefore the storeys were cramped and poorly ventilated. Those clever aussie trains appear to use the bits in between the wheels and have ample space. It would be ideal. If they could be built in the UK that would be even better. They'd be the routemaster bus of the new generation.tlg86 said:
We used to have them:Luckyguy1983 said:My two pence on HS2, I think we should get two storey trains instead.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HgQM_v3mln0
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SR_Class_4DD0 -
Buttigeig has taken all his shine.Theuniondivvie said:I've assumed from the closeness of the senatorial race that Beto must have had something about him, but so far his run for the Dem nomination seems entirely beige, even charisma free.
https://twitter.com/BetoORourke/status/1119992147871186945
Apparently two of his top staff have quit in recent days.0 -
Indeed. Had Callaghan not elevated so many MPs to the Lords , he would have avoided a few by elections and his Government would have survived the VONC in March 1979.AlastairMeeks said:So the Great Majority has become a small minority.
The closeness of the last three elections no doubt has something to do with the decline in optional by-elections too. Each MP makes a difference to the Parliamentary maths.0 -
LIVE: Shaun Murphy (Eng) 7-0 Luo Honghao (Chn)dixiedean said:OT apologies for my tip of Luo Honghao to win his first match at the Crucible.
The kid has gone to pieces on the big stage...won't see that tenner again.
Hmmm, just a bit off?0 -
Well, in the time-frame my article discussed, Dudley in 1922 and Pontypridd the same year were both Labour gains from Coalition Conservative and Coalition Liberal respectively.DecrepitJohnL said:
Ministerial by-elections were uncontested, aiui.MikeSmithson said:I rather like the rule that MPs had to resign their seat and fight a by-election on being appointed a minister. What a wonderful extra complication.
To my mind all by-elections are good thing.
Other contested Ministerial contests that were contested were all six in 1920, Bewdley as well as Bedford in 1921, and Bury St Edmunds in 1925, and East Renfrewshire in 1926 - the last ever ministerial by-election.
So that makes 12 of the 20 from 1919-1926.0 -
UK standard is 2.6m wide & 2.9m high loading gauge on lines such as the WCML which is what HS2 is intended to relieve.Luckyguy1983 said:
I don't believe that the Australian train is significantly taller - it goes down a lot lower, in between the wheels. Look at how low the lower windows are. It's brilliant.rpjs said:FPT:
If you read about the 4DDs you’ll learn that they weren’t terribly successful because the UK loading gauge (the distance lineside structures can be from the track and thus the maximum size of rail vehicles) is too small for true double deck vehicles: the 4DDs had to interleave their “downstairs” and “upstairs” compartments which were very cramped as a result. They also had very long dwell times at rush hour due to the time it took the upstairs passengers to get in and out.tlg86 said:
We used to have them:Luckyguy1983 said:My two pence on HS2, I think we should get two storey trains instead.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HgQM_v3mln0
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SR_Class_4DD
This is a result of the UK being the first to construct passenger railways on a large scale, with the earliest carriages being based on stagecoach designs, and so were stagecoach-sized (in height and width at least). This meant the positioning of lineside structures and so the loading gauge closely followed the vehicle sizes. Europe, the US and other places learnt from this and started with larger loading gauges, many of which are big enough for true double-deck vehicles (although even then some like the Long Island RR bi-levels feel somewhat cramped on the top deck).
HS2, like HS1 before it, is built to the full UIC (Union Internationale des Chemins de Fer) loading gauge and will support full double-deck cars like the TGV “duplexes”. There are also vague plans to increase the loading gauge on some of the SW London commuter routes, though I suspect what will actually be practical to do there will be so constrained that any d-d cars on those routes will feel pretty cramped.
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQBHXuTkvWvuSXoSDhgf7MxVXe6ssVawZulxZFu0dSSRLCnajIM-g
Australian have a loading gauge of 3.2m wide and 3.48m high on lines that have double decker trains.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loading_gauge
Reason HS2 is being developed is because when all the other options to increase have been considered it is the most sensible choice.0 -
Thanks to Sunil for the interesting piece - I was vaguely aware that by-elections had become rarer, but not how far.initforthemoney said:
Would be interested to know his threshold for a pension to qualify as better than poor.NeilVW said:I think it was Nick Palmer who once explained that MPs’ pensions were very poor until the time of John Major’s Government, so a lot of them couldn’t afford to retire. So that’s another factor.
My recollection from service as a Trustee for the emergency fund for former MPs was that pensions used to be almost non-existent in the old days (going back to the 1950s) - I remember the widow of a Prime Minister from that period applying to us for help to have a broken window repaired, and reporting her income and savings as virtually zero apart from the national pension. We felt that however harshly people judged politicians, they would be rather shocked at this, and we did help her. I'm not sure when the pensions became substantial.
I'm sure that general longevity plays a part, and of course in a hung Parliament MPs on both sides are urged not to stand down on a whim. The sharp changes in political profile in both major parties have also led to more retirements when MPs decide they don't much like the new regime and alternative careers are a less painful option than a publikc defection.0 -
A massive issue (as @rpjs mentions) is the dwell time at stations. Since you don't double capacity with a double-decker (as there are stair wells and other things reducing capacity), then it takes much longer for people to get from the top deck to the platform. If there are frequent stations, this can reduce, not increase, capacity as you end up with a really slow train blocking other services, including fast ones.Luckyguy1983 said:FPT
Thanks, that's really interesting. I note from the wiki article that in the main, the problems with the train came from clearance issues meaning the height of the carriages was limited and therefore the storeys were cramped and poorly ventilated. Those clever aussie trains appear to use the bits in between the wheels and have ample space. It would be ideal. If they could be built in the UK that would be even better. They'd be the routemaster bus of the new generation.tlg86 said:
We used to have them:Luckyguy1983 said:My two pence on HS2, I think we should get two storey trains instead.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HgQM_v3mln0
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SR_Class_4DD
That's less of an issue with HS2. However that will have issues with the classic-compatible trains that go on the rest of the network to extend their journeys.0 -
Welcome to NeilNW by the way - a new face?0
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We have the smallest main-line loading gauge of major European countries - and the deep-level tubes in London are even smaller! Only Moorgate to Drayton Park (near Arsenal) is a proper main-line tube (brand new Class 717 units have just started regular service).RobD said:
Isn't there also an issue with the width of the gauge and stability?Luckyguy1983 said:FPT
Thanks, that's really interesting. I note from the wiki article that in the main, the problems with the train came from clearance issues meaning the height of the carriages was limited and therefore the storeys were cramped and poorly ventilated. Those clever aussie trains appear to use the bits in between the wheels and have ample space. It would be ideal. If they could be built in the UK that would be even better. They'd be the routemaster bus of the new generation.tlg86 said:
We used to have them:Luckyguy1983 said:My two pence on HS2, I think we should get two storey trains instead.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HgQM_v3mln0
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SR_Class_4DD0 -
Sure, but loading gauge. You can’t even get 165/166 (Thames Turbos) across much of the network because of platform clearances.Luckyguy1983 said:FPT
Thanks, that's really interesting. I note from the wiki article that in the main, the problems with the train came from clearance issues meaning the height of the carriages was limited and therefore the storeys were cramped and poorly ventilated. Those clever aussie trains appear to use the bits in between the wheels and have ample space. It would be ideal. If they could be built in the UK that would be even better. They'd be the routemaster bus of the new generation.tlg86 said:
We used to have them:Luckyguy1983 said:My two pence on HS2, I think we should get two storey trains instead.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HgQM_v3mln0
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SR_Class_4DD
The Southern Region is genuinely difficult, and the WCML is full - hence HS2. But on the rest of the network, the answer to capacity issues is simple: run longer trains. All modern trains have Selective Door Opening so platform lengths shouldn’t be an issue.
It’s the franchising system’s hostility to investment that makes this difficult. Both CrossCountry and Arriva Trains Wales would be in a much better position had they each lengthened their trains 10 years ago, but both were let to Arriva on no-investment contracts. The situation right now is brighter: Northern, TfW, TPE, WMT, Greater Anglia and EMR have all been let on the basis of significant fleet replacement. But as industry watchers like Roger Ford will tell you, feast-to-famine is no way to run a railway.0 -
Peter Barry, I know - like I said, more on the NI resignations in Part 2!ydoethur said:Interesting thread Sunil, but I think you will find universal suffrage was 1928 not 1918. 1918 was universal male suffrage (unless you were a conscientious objector).
Edit - also of course there were 4 by-elections in 1986 that were uncontested (leaving aside a joke candidate pretending to be the Irish Minister for Foreign Affairs).
But, people still voted for "him"! 6,000 or so, across the four seats he "contested"!0 -
Sooooo pleased you wrote Maths. I loathe the American version "math"AlastairMeeks said:So the Great Majority has become a small minority.
The closeness of the last three elections no doubt has something to do with the decline in optional by-elections too. Each MP makes a difference to the Parliamentary maths.0 -
The act was passed in 1919, but allowed for some provision for them to continue if the "promotion" occurred later than 9 months after a General. An amendment in 1926 finally put paid to them altogether.justin124 said:Thanks for the article. I have learnt something new here in that I had wrongly assumed that Ministerial By elections ceased from 1918 - rather than 1926.
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shouldn't the phrase be "parliamentary arithmetic"?SquareRoot said:
Sooooo pleased you wrote Maths. I loathe the American version "math"AlastairMeeks said:So the Great Majority has become a small minority.
The closeness of the last three elections no doubt has something to do with the decline in optional by-elections too. Each MP makes a difference to the Parliamentary maths.
*gets coat*0 -
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What horrendous news from Sri Lanka, 200+ victims <°<0
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9% others?Recidivist said:This poll looks sort of believable.
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/11199631069548748820 -
I am not sure how many grammatical errors there are in *gets coat *RobD said:
shouldn't the phrase be "parliamentary arithmetic"?SquareRoot said:
Sooooo pleased you wrote Maths. I loathe the American version "math"AlastairMeeks said:So the Great Majority has become a small minority.
The closeness of the last three elections no doubt has something to do with the decline in optional by-elections too. Each MP makes a difference to the Parliamentary maths.
*gets coat*-1 -
If there is a vacancy for the Labour leadership there will be a contest under the rules. McDonell may stand, though he has said in the past that he wouldn't, but it is by no means certain that he would win. What is certain is that all the candidates would have to promise a second referendum if they were to have any hope of winning. And it's likely that PV supporters would rush to sign up as registered supporters so they would get a vote and ensure that Labour pivoted firmly into the PV camp.Cyclefree said:
So do I, for three reasons:-isam said:
Oh dear, I hope that rumour isn’t trueCharles said:Lunch today heard some interesting Westminster gossip
No idea as to accuracy and was second hand so take it for what it’s worth
Rumour is Corbyn has cancer - assuming a near term election he will front campaign but McDonnell will take over after election. Longer term election who knows?
1. Not nice for Corbyn.
2. McDonnell much more dangerous than Corbyn.
3. Sick of having PMs foisted on us by small numbers of the party faithful. First, Brown then May. Enough.0 -
Thanks. Been here a while, very occasionally I put in my two penn’orth.NickPalmer said:Welcome to NeilNW by the way - a new face?
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Certainly makes for interesting threadsMikeSmithson said:I rather like the rule that MPs had to resign their seat and fight a by-election on being appointed a minister. What a wonderful extra complication.
To my mind all by-elections are good thing. 0 -
SNP, Plaid, National health action, soundings.Sunil_Prasannan said:
9% others?Recidivist said:This poll looks sort of believable.
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/11199631069548748820 -
4. Bait and switch. If Corbyn is not going to be PM it’s fraud by misrepresentation* firchim to campaign as leader of one of the parties vying to be in powerCyclefree said:
So do I, for three reasons:-isam said:
Oh dear, I hope that rumour isn’t trueCharles said:Lunch today heard some interesting Westminster gossip
No idea as to accuracy and was second hand so take it for what it’s worth
Rumour is Corbyn has cancer - assuming a near term election he will front campaign but McDonnell will take over after election. Longer term election who knows?
1. Not nice for Corbyn.
2. McDonnell much more dangerous than Corbyn.
3. Sick of having PMs foisted on us by small numbers of the party faithful. First, Brown then May. Enough.
* yes I know that’s legally not the case but seemed the simplest way to convey the concept0 -
Are labour rules different when in government? This is what the scenario is expected to be.anothernick said:
If there is a vacancy for the Labour leadership there will be a contest under the rules. McDonell may stand, though he has said in the past that he wouldn't, but it is by no means certain that he would win. What is certain is that all the candidates would have to promise a second referendum if they were to have any hope of winning. And it's likely that PV supporters would rush to sign up as registered supporters so they would get a vote and ensure that Labour pivoted firmly into the PV camp.Cyclefree said:
So do I, for three reasons:-isam said:
Oh dear, I hope that rumour isn’t trueCharles said:Lunch today heard some interesting Westminster gossip
No idea as to accuracy and was second hand so take it for what it’s worth
Rumour is Corbyn has cancer - assuming a near term election he will front campaign but McDonnell will take over after election. Longer term election who knows?
1. Not nice for Corbyn.
2. McDonnell much more dangerous than Corbyn.
3. Sick of having PMs foisted on us by small numbers of the party faithful. First, Brown then May. Enough.
Additionally of Corbyn has just won an election I’d expect he’d have a massive amount of influence0 -
Very interesting Sunil, thanks.0
-
0
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A big headache for Putin to have a Russian-speaking Ukrainian leader with popular appeal within Russia.Theuniondivvie said:https://twitter.com/russian_market/status/1120010527663464448
A lorra, lorra laughs ahead of us.0 -
That is an abomination.SquareRoot said:
Sooooo pleased you wrote Maths. I loathe the American version "math"AlastairMeeks said:So the Great Majority has become a small minority.
The closeness of the last three elections no doubt has something to do with the decline in optional by-elections too. Each MP makes a difference to the Parliamentary maths.0 -
Assuming McDonnell doesn't stand, are there any other Marxists in the frame or would Labour revert to something approximating to sanity?anothernick said:
If there is a vacancy for the Labour leadership there will be a contest under the rules. McDonell may stand, though he has said in the past that he wouldn't, but it is by no means certain that he would win. What is certain is that all the candidates would have to promise a second referendum if they were to have any hope of winning. And it's likely that PV supporters would rush to sign up as registered supporters so they would get a vote and ensure that Labour pivoted firmly into the PV camp.Cyclefree said:
So do I, for three reasons:-isam said:
Oh dear, I hope that rumour isn’t trueCharles said:Lunch today heard some interesting Westminster gossip
No idea as to accuracy and was second hand so take it for what it’s worth
Rumour is Corbyn has cancer - assuming a near term election he will front campaign but McDonnell will take over after election. Longer term election who knows?
1. Not nice for Corbyn.
2. McDonnell much more dangerous than Corbyn.
3. Sick of having PMs foisted on us by small numbers of the party faithful. First, Brown then May. Enough.0 -
Pardon me, that should have been *get's coat*.SquareRoot said:
I am not sure how many grammatical errors there are in *gets coat *RobD said:
shouldn't the phrase be "parliamentary arithmetic"?SquareRoot said:
Sooooo pleased you wrote Maths. I loathe the American version "math"AlastairMeeks said:So the Great Majority has become a small minority.
The closeness of the last three elections no doubt has something to do with the decline in optional by-elections too. Each MP makes a difference to the Parliamentary maths.
*gets coat*
*innocent face*0 -
Thank goodness there isn't a history of Putin taking direct action to cure his headaches.williamglenn said:
A big headache for Putin to have a Russian-speaking Ukrainian leader with popular appeal within Russia.Theuniondivvie said:https://twitter.com/russian_market/status/1120010527663464448
A lorra, lorra laughs ahead of us.0 -
McDonnell is certainly the closet to Corbyn in political outlook, all the other potentials are younger and differ in varying degrees from Corbyn. I think there will be a strong push to elect a woman next time and candidates from the shadow cabinet might perhaps be Thornbery, Long Bailey, Rayner, and then there's Yvette Cooper who might run again. Possible men are McDonnell, Watson, perhaps Clive Lewis.Ishmael_Z said:
Assuming McDonnell doesn't stand, are there any other Marxists in the frame or would Labour revert to something approximating to sanity?anothernick said:
If there is a vacancy for the Labour leadership there will be a contest under the rules. McDonell may stand, though he has said in the past that he wouldn't, but it is by no means certain that he would win. What is certain is that all the candidates would have to promise a second referendum if they were to have any hope of winning. And it's likely that PV supporters would rush to sign up as registered supporters so they would get a vote and ensure that Labour pivoted firmly into the PV camp.Cyclefree said:
So do I, for three reasons:-isam said:
Oh dear, I hope that rumour isn’t trueCharles said:Lunch today heard some interesting Westminster gossip
No idea as to accuracy and was second hand so take it for what it’s worth
Rumour is Corbyn has cancer - assuming a near term election he will front campaign but McDonnell will take over after election. Longer term election who knows?
1. Not nice for Corbyn.
2. McDonnell much more dangerous than Corbyn.
3. Sick of having PMs foisted on us by small numbers of the party faithful. First, Brown then May. Enough.0 -
Even simpler would be to invite voters to remember the transitions to John Major, Gordon Brown and Theresa May herself rather than have a fit of the vapours at parties changing leader in government. Especially if Theresa May herself will also have been replaced by then.Charles said:
4. Bait and switch. If Corbyn is not going to be PM it’s fraud by misrepresentation* firchim to campaign as leader of one of the parties vying to be in powerCyclefree said:
So do I, for three reasons:-isam said:
Oh dear, I hope that rumour isn’t trueCharles said:Lunch today heard some interesting Westminster gossip
No idea as to accuracy and was second hand so take it for what it’s worth
Rumour is Corbyn has cancer - assuming a near term election he will front campaign but McDonnell will take over after election. Longer term election who knows?
1. Not nice for Corbyn.
2. McDonnell much more dangerous than Corbyn.
3. Sick of having PMs foisted on us by small numbers of the party faithful. First, Brown then May. Enough.
* yes I know that’s legally not the case but seemed the simplest way to convey the concept0 -
The difference between the Aussie and British loading gauges may not sound like much, but it would be enough to make that style of bi-level very difficult to implement in the UK. If you look closely at the video you can see that the headroom on the upper deck isn’t great and neither deck has overhead luggage racks.ManchesterKurt said:
UK standard is 2.6m wide & 2.9m high loading gauge on lines such as the WCML which is what HS2 is intended to relieve.Luckyguy1983 said:
I don't believe that the Australian train is significantly taller - it goes down a lot lower, in between the wheels. Look at how low the lower windows are. It's brilliant.rpjs said:If you read about the 4DDs you’ll learn that they weren’t terribly successful because the UK loading gauge (the distance lineside structures can be from the track and thus the maximum size of rail vehicles) is too small for true double deck vehicles: the 4DDs had to interleave their “downstairs” and “upstairs” compartments which were very cramped as a result. They also had very long dwell times at rush hour due to the time it took the upstairs passengers to get in and out.
HS2, like HS1 before it, is built to the full UIC (Union Internationale des Chemins de Fer) loading gauge and will support full double-deck cars like the TGV “duplexes”. There are also vague plans to increase the loading gauge on some of the SW London commuter routes, though I suspect what will actually be practical to do there will be so constrained that any d-d cars on those routes will feel pretty cramped.
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQBHXuTkvWvuSXoSDhgf7MxVXe6ssVawZulxZFu0dSSRLCnajIM-g
Australian have a loading gauge of 3.2m wide and 3.48m high on lines that have double decker trains.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loading_gauge
Reason HS2 is being developed is because when all the other options to increase have been considered it is the most sensible choice.
Another problem with split-level double-deck coaches like that is that the stairs mean wheelchair users and other mobility-impaired passengers can’t access those decks. Those sort of cars usually have a single-deck area at either end where such passengers can go, but all put together you’re not really getting anything like twice the capacity of a singe-level car, maybe 50% extra at best.0 -
Believable in what sense? It is unlikely the smaller parties will be standing in most places so what do we make of their numbers? Who will their erstwhile supporters vote for instead?Recidivist said:This poll looks sort of believable.
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/11199631069548748820 -
"UK law prohibits forecasts of the outcome of recall petitions which are based on statements from or surveys of potential signatories"
huh0 -
It’s not as though we don’t already have a comedian in a position of far greater power.Theuniondivvie said:https://twitter.com/russian_market/status/1120010527663464448
A lorra, lorra laughs ahead of us.
At least this one is a professional.
0 -
Sunil burnishes his credentials as biggest wonk on PB.
Should I be worried that I find it interesting?0 -
I know from experience that most rail franchise bidders have looked at double dockers at some time, but it's always rejected. Station dwell time for train loading and unloading, as you say is a major problem that does reduce capacity. Theres also a more basic problem across nearly all of the network , rail bridges are too low for double deck trains.JosiasJessop said:
A massive issue (as @rpjs mentions) is the dwell time at stations. Since you don't double capacity with a double-decker (as there are stair wells and other things reducing capacity), then it takes much longer for people to get from the top deck to the platform. If there are frequent stations, this can reduce, not increase, capacity as you end up with a really slow train blocking other services, including fast ones.Luckyguy1983 said:FPT
Thanks, that's really interesting. I note from the wiki article that in the main, the problems with the train came from clearance issues meaning the height of the carriages was limited and therefore the storeys were cramped and poorly ventilated. Those clever aussie trains appear to use the bits in between the wheels and have ample space. It would be ideal. If they could be built in the UK that would be even better. They'd be the routemaster bus of the new generation.tlg86 said:
We used to have them:Luckyguy1983 said:My two pence on HS2, I think we should get two storey trains instead.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HgQM_v3mln0
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SR_Class_4DD
That's less of an issue with HS2. However that will have issues with the classic-compatible trains that go on the rest of the network to extend their journeys.0 -
The Ukrainian Mrs Sandpit is watching their local TV news with her mouth wide open.Theuniondivvie said:https://twitter.com/russian_market/status/1120010527663464448
A lorra, lorra laughs ahead of us.
It’s like the U.K. had directly elected Paul Eddington to replace Margaret Thatcher.0 -
Open topped double deckers maybe?saddo said:
I know from experience that most rail franchise bidders have looked at double dockers at some time, but it's always rejected. Station dwell time for train loading and unloading, as you say is a major problem that does reduce capacity. Theres also a more basic problem across nearly all of the network , rail bridges are too low for double deck trains.JosiasJessop said:
A massive issue (as @rpjs mentions) is the dwell time at stations. Since you don't double capacity with a double-decker (as there are stair wells and other things reducing capacity), then it takes much longer for people to get from the top deck to the platform. If there are frequent stations, this can reduce, not increase, capacity as you end up with a really slow train blocking other services, including fast ones.Luckyguy1983 said:FPT
Thanks, that's really interesting. I note from the wiki article that in the main, the problems with the train came from clearance issues meaning the height of the carriages was limited and therefore the storeys were cramped and poorly ventilated. Those clever aussie trains appear to use the bits in between the wheels and have ample space. It would be ideal. If they could be built in the UK that would be even better. They'd be the routemaster bus of the new generation.tlg86 said:
We used to have them:Luckyguy1983 said:My two pence on HS2, I think we should get two storey trains instead.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HgQM_v3mln0
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SR_Class_4DD
That's less of an issue with HS2. However that will have issues with the classic-compatible trains that go on the rest of the network to extend their journeys.0 -
With electronic 'DUCK!' signs whenever bridges come along. Oh, and stretches with overhead electrification might be a trifle difficult.Benpointer said:
Open topped double deckers maybe?saddo said:
I know from experience that most rail franchise bidders have looked at double dockers at some time, but it's always rejected. Station dwell time for train loading and unloading, as you say is a major problem that does reduce capacity. Theres also a more basic problem across nearly all of the network , rail bridges are too low for double deck trains.JosiasJessop said:
A massive issue (as @rpjs mentions) is the dwell time at stations. Since you don't double capacity with a double-decker (as there are stair wells and other things reducing capacity), then it takes much longer for people to get from the top deck to the platform. If there are frequent stations, this can reduce, not increase, capacity as you end up with a really slow train blocking other services, including fast ones.Luckyguy1983 said:FPT
Thanks, that's really interesting. I note from the wiki article that in the main, the problems with the train came from clearance issues meaning the height of the carriages was limited and therefore the storeys were cramped and poorly ventilated. Those clever aussie trains appear to use the bits in between the wheels and have ample space. It would be ideal. If they could be built in the UK that would be even better. They'd be the routemaster bus of the new generation.tlg86 said:
We used to have them:Luckyguy1983 said:My two pence on HS2, I think we should get two storey trains instead.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HgQM_v3mln0
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SR_Class_4DD
That's less of an issue with HS2. However that will have issues with the classic-compatible trains that go on the rest of the network to extend their journeys. 0 -
SandyRentool said:
Sunil burnishes his credentials as biggest wonk on PB.
Should I be worried that I find it interesting?Casino_Royale said:Very interesting Sunil, thanks.
You're welcome!NickPalmer said:
Thanks to Sunil for the interesting piece -
0 -
If you just look at the section of the graph from 1992 to now - which is still a relatively long historical period of over twenty five years - there really isn't any obvious trend. The downward trend postwar was between the sixties and eighties. Probably a combination of improved longevity reducing deaths, and fewer resignations once third parties made almost no by-election safe, from Orpington onwards.0
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Yes, I realise you wouldn't double capacity for the reasons you mention. However I don't think the Australian train I posted the video of would cause big increases in length of stops, as there are just 5 small steps up and 5 small steps down. The whole thing is brilliantly designed.JosiasJessop said:
A massive issue (as @rpjs mentions) is the dwell time at stations. Since you don't double capacity with a double-decker (as there are stair wells and other things reducing capacity), then it takes much longer for people to get from the top deck to the platform. If there are frequent stations, this can reduce, not increase, capacity as you end up with a really slow train blocking other services, including fast ones.Luckyguy1983 said:FPT
Thanks, that's really interesting. I note from the wiki article that in the main, the problems with the train came from clearance issues meaning the height of the carriages was limited and therefore the storeys were cramped and poorly ventilated. Those clever aussie trains appear to use the bits in between the wheels and have ample space. It would be ideal. If they could be built in the UK that would be even better. They'd be the routemaster bus of the new generation.tlg86 said:
We used to have them:Luckyguy1983 said:My two pence on HS2, I think we should get two storey trains instead.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HgQM_v3mln0
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SR_Class_4DD
That's less of an issue with HS2. However that will have issues with the classic-compatible trains that go on the rest of the network to extend their journeys.0 -
Imagine. Martin Sheen announces his candidacy for 2020Sandpit said:
The Ukrainian Mrs Sandpit is watching their local TV news with her mouth wide open.Theuniondivvie said:https://twitter.com/russian_market/status/1120010527663464448
A lorra, lorra laughs ahead of us.
It’s like the U.K. had directly elected Paul Eddington to replace Margaret Thatcher.0 -
There's always third (or fourth) railJosiasJessop said:
With electronic 'DUCK!' signs whenever bridges come along. Oh, and stretches with overhead electrification might be a trifle difficult.Benpointer said:
Open topped double deckers maybe?saddo said:
I know from experience that most rail franchise bidders have looked at double dockers at some time, but it's always rejected. Station dwell time for train loading and unloading, as you say is a major problem that does reduce capacity. Theres also a more basic problem across nearly all of the network , rail bridges are too low for double deck trains.JosiasJessop said:
A massive issue (as @rpjs mentions) is the dwell time at stations. Since you don't double capacity with a double-decker (as there are stair wells and other things reducing capacity), then it takes much longer for people to get from the top deck to the platform. If there are frequent stations, this can reduce, not increase, capacity as you end up with a really slow train blocking other services, including fast ones.Luckyguy1983 said:FPT
Thanks, that's really interesting. I note from the wiki article that in the main, the problems with the train came from clearance issues meaning the height of the carriages was limited and therefore the storeys were cramped and poorly ventilated. Those clever aussie trains appear to use the bits in between the wheels and have ample space. It would be ideal. If they could be built in the UK that would be even better. They'd be the routemaster bus of the new generation.tlg86 said:
We used to have them:Luckyguy1983 said:My two pence on HS2, I think we should get two storey trains instead.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HgQM_v3mln0
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SR_Class_4DD
That's less of an issue with HS2. However that will have issues with the classic-compatible trains that go on the rest of the network to extend their journeys. Much less visually obtrusive! 0 -
The Dutch ones are similar, and seem to work well at stations even when frequent.Luckyguy1983 said:
Yes, I realise you wouldn't double capacity for the reasons you mention. However I don't think the Australian train I posted the video of would cause big increases in length of stops, as there are just 5 small steps up and 5 small steps down. The whole thing is brilliantly designed.JosiasJessop said:
A massive issue (as @rpjs mentions) is the dwell time at stations. Since you don't double capacity with a double-decker (as there are stair wells and other things reducing capacity), then it takes much longer for people to get from the top deck to the platform. If there are frequent stations, this can reduce, not increase, capacity as you end up with a really slow train blocking other services, including fast ones.Luckyguy1983 said:FPT
Thanks, that's really interesting. I note from the wiki article that in the main, the problems with the train came from clearance issues meaning the height of the carriages was limited and therefore the storeys were cramped and poorly ventilated. Those clever aussie trains appear to use the bits in between the wheels and have ample space. It would be ideal. If they could be built in the UK that would be even better. They'd be the routemaster bus of the new generation.tlg86 said:
We used to have them:Luckyguy1983 said:My two pence on HS2, I think we should get two storey trains instead.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HgQM_v3mln0
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SR_Class_4DD
That's less of an issue with HS2. However that will have issues with the classic-compatible trains that go on the rest of the network to extend their journeys.0 -
It would be hilarious if someone would fund Alec Baldwin to run as an Indy - he could go to the debate and parody everything Trump says straight back to him.ExiledInScotland said:
Imagine. Martin Sheen announces his candidacy for 2020Sandpit said:
The Ukrainian Mrs Sandpit is watching their local TV news with her mouth wide open.Theuniondivvie said:https://twitter.com/russian_market/status/1120010527663464448
A lorra, lorra laughs ahead of us.
It’s like the U.K. had directly elected Paul Eddington to replace Margaret Thatcher. 0 -
Yes, it is brilliant, but it's built to a more expansive loading gauge than ours. And if a train stops for a minute at a station to offload, extending that by even 30 seconds would have dramatic consequences for timings and capacities if stations are called at every five minutes.Luckyguy1983 said:Yes, I realise you wouldn't double capacity for the reasons you mention. However I don't think the Australian train I posted the video of would cause big increases in length of stops, as there are just 5 small steps up and 5 small steps down. The whole thing is brilliantly designed.
(It gets a little worse than that, as there are different 'forms' of loading gauge. The faster a train goes, the more a train will sway and be affected by cant and dynamic forces. Therefore you need to take kinematics into account - especially with platform edges.)0 -
But less good for speed ...Sunil_Prasannan said:
There's always third (or fourth) railJosiasJessop said:
With electronic 'DUCK!' signs whenever bridges come along. Oh, and stretches with overhead electrification might be a trifle difficult.Benpointer said:
Open topped double deckers maybe?saddo said:
I know from experience that most rail franchise bidders have looked at double dockers at some time, but it's always rejected. Station dwell time for train loading and unloading, as you say is a major problem that does reduce capacity. Theres also a more basic problem across nearly all of the network , rail bridges are too low for double deck trains.JosiasJessop said:
A massive issue (as @rpjs mentions) is the dwell time at stations. Since you don't double capacity with a double-decker (as there are stair wells and other things reducing capacity), then it takes much longer for people to get from the top deck to the platform. If there are frequent stations, this can reduce, not increase, capacity as you end up with a really slow train blocking other services, including fast ones.Luckyguy1983 said:FPT
Thanks, that's really interesting. I note from the wiki article that in the main, the problems with the train came from clearance issues meaning the height of the carriages was limited and therefore the storeys were cramped and poorly ventilated. Those clever aussie trains appear to use the bits in between the wheels and have ample space. It would be ideal. If they could be built in the UK that would be even better. They'd be the routemaster bus of the new generation.tlg86 said:
We used to have them:Luckyguy1983 said:My two pence on HS2, I think we should get two storey trains instead.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HgQM_v3mln0
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SR_Class_4DD
That's less of an issue with HS2. However that will have issues with the classic-compatible trains that go on the rest of the network to extend their journeys. Much less visually obtrusive!0 -
I think a difference of 60cm if height difference between Australian and UK trains is rather significant in this discussion.Luckyguy1983 said:
Yes, I realise you wouldn't double capacity for the reasons you mention. However I don't think the Australian train I posted the video of would cause big increases in length of stops, as there are just 5 small steps up and 5 small steps down. The whole thing is brilliantly designed.JosiasJessop said:
A massive issue (as @rpjs mentions) is the dwell time at stations. Since you don't double capacity with a double-decker (as there are stair wells and other things reducing capacity), then it takes much longer for people to get from the top deck to the platform. If there are frequent stations, this can reduce, not increase, capacity as you end up with a really slow train blocking other services, including fast ones.Luckyguy1983 said:FPT
Thanks, that's really interesting. I note from the wiki article that in the main, the problems with the train came from clearance issues meaning the height of the carriages was limited and therefore the storeys were cramped and poorly ventilated. Those clever aussie trains appear to use the bits in between the wheels and have ample space. It would be ideal. If they could be built in the UK that would be even better. They'd be the routemaster bus of the new generation.tlg86 said:
We used to have them:Luckyguy1983 said:My two pence on HS2, I think we should get two storey trains instead.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HgQM_v3mln0
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SR_Class_4DD
That's less of an issue with HS2. However that will have issues with the classic-compatible trains that go on the rest of the network to extend their journeys.
I am sure the trains are incredibly well designed, but with 60cm less in the UK and a requirement to put the engine somewhere (normally under the floor) reality is you are not going to comfortably travel on double decker trains on the WCML as a way of creating extra capacity.
Funnily enough before HS2 was a thing options like this were considered and disregarded for this very reason.0 -
If you have a choice between the candidate of what many see as a corrupt establishment and somebody who looks pleasant and you know nothing about, the choice seems logical. Perhaps he'll even get a peace deal.Sandpit said:
The Ukrainian Mrs Sandpit is watching their local TV news with her mouth wide open.Theuniondivvie said:https://twitter.com/russian_market/status/1120010527663464448
A lorra, lorra laughs ahead of us.
It’s like the U.K. had directly elected Paul Eddington to replace Margaret Thatcher.0 -
While we still talk about railway lines (and runways), the rest of the world is actually building them.
Kudos to the first politician who dares to suggest serious planning reform for major infrastructure projects. HS2, HS3 and two new runways at LHR all need to have been opened yesterday.
To all the greenies opposed to development, we currently have thousands of smelly lorries on motorways and hundreds of planes flying round in circles over London, contributing massively to pollution and greenhouse gas emissions.0
