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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » A ridiculous spectacle, looking in detail at Julian Assange’s arrest.
Assange’s arrest – his white beard, wink and ponytail giving him a very woke mixture of metrosexual man, cheeky rebel and Russian dissident – is the latest scene in a life made for film. Now, following a spell at Her Majesty’s pleasure (her prisons, in NI anyway, used to faeces-smearing prisoners unlike the bemused Ecuadorians bulk-buying extra-strong Cilit Bang) he faces the possibility of extradition to Sweden or the US to face charges of sexual assault and conspiracy to hack into US government computers.
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Comments
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An excellent post, Ms Free. The MPs should know better.
My own view: Assange is a self-serving nasty fool, a publicity-seeker who has managed to con a whole load of people, and place others (including a member of my family) in trouble, or even danger.
When talking about the law, we need to leave all those admirable qualities to one side. Aside from jumping bail (and how much I LOL at his supporters who lost money on his bail), then it would not surprise me if there was not enough evidence or cause for an extradition to go through. In which case the government could be faced with other difficult problems and decisions.
Edit: and first. Sorry, Ms Free,0 -
Ooh, am I first?0
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Assange leaked from the Ecuadorian Embassy .....0
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Never mind. I can be the first to congratulate you!JosiasJessop said:An excellent post, Ms Free. The MPs should know better.
My own view: Assange is a self-serving nasty fool, a publicity-seeker who has managed to con a whole load of people, and place others (including a member of my family) in trouble, or even danger.
When talking about the law, we need to leave all those admirable qualities to one side. Aside from jumping bail (and how much I LOL at his supporters who lost money on his bail), then it would not surprise me if there was not enough evidence or cause for an extradition to go through. In which case the government could be faced with other difficult problems and decisions.
Edit: and first. Sorry, Ms Free,0 -
Believe me, after the last few days I'm in need of a little victory.Cyclefree said:
Never mind. I can be the first to congratulate you!JosiasJessop said:An excellent post, Ms Free. The MPs should know better.
My own view: Assange is a self-serving nasty fool, a publicity-seeker who has managed to con a whole load of people, and place others (including a member of my family) in trouble, or even danger.
When talking about the law, we need to leave all those admirable qualities to one side. Aside from jumping bail (and how much I LOL at his supporters who lost money on his bail), then it would not surprise me if there was not enough evidence or cause for an extradition to go through. In which case the government could be faced with other difficult problems and decisions.
Edit: and first. Sorry, Ms Free,
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Excellent piece, Cyclefree. For me Assange and co are at best irresponsible and at worst treasonous.0
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Thanks for the article Cyclefree. Some good points made. I think the law should be left to get on with it and the pols should shut up.0
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Buttigieg formally running launch today!0
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isam said:
Completely crackers
https://twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1117371973112225793?s=21
... and as usual, the bored, flaccid, upper middle class, desperate to have something to make them feel alive and angry about, back him up. So embarrassing
https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/1117394666712903680?s=210 -
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As usual Matt got it spot on. Plaque outside the Ecudorian embassy. “Julian Assange lived here for what felt like 700 years “.
He’s a nasty piece of work and those making excuses for him should be ashamed of themselves.
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Sorry to go OT quite so soon but my wife had a very detailed survey from Ipsos Mori this morning. Nearly all about Scottish independence with Brexit quite peripheral. I wondered if Nicola was testing the waters before her next big announcement.0
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The SNP generally use Panelbase.DavidL said:Sorry to go OT quite so soon but my wife had a very detailed survey from Ipsos Mori this morning. Nearly all about Scottish independence with Brexit quite peripheral. I wondered if Nicola was testing the waters before her next big announcement.
Ipsos MORI poll quarterly for STV.
During the Indyref Better Together used Ipsos MORI.0 -
It very much depends on how much anti-immigrant rhethoric you can stand. If you are white British then it is easy to shrug it off, revel in it or merely benefit from it without speaking against it.isam said:Completely crackers
https://twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1117371973112225793?s=21
I suspect Lammy experiences it differently. Our Empire was built on force that enslaved his ancestors White supremacists are not some lairy pub talk to him, they are much more real. Are you surprised?0 -
I'm not particularly surprised because he sees racism in everything to keep himself in a jobFoxy said:
It very much depends on how much anti-immigrant rhethoric you can stand. If you are white British then it is easy to shrug it off, revel in it or merely benefit from it without speaking against it.isam said:Completely crackers
https://twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1117371973112225793?s=21
I suspect Lammy experiences it differently. Our Empire was built on force that enslaved his ancestors White supremacists are not some lairy pub talk to him, they are much more real. Are you surprised?0 -
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Seems like a cheap way to close down debate on the issue. Just label everyone a nazi and you are done.Foxy said:
It very much depends on how much anti-immigrant rhethoric you can stand. If you are white British then it is easy to shrug it off, revel in it or merely benefit from it without speaking against it.isam said:Completely crackers
https://twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1117371973112225793?s=21
I suspect Lammy experiences it differently. Our Empire was built on force that enslaved his ancestors White supremacists are not some lairy pub talk to him, they are much more real. Are you surprised?0 -
You mean he was shown the Ecua-Door?JackW said:Assange leaked from the Ecuadorian Embassy .....
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Excellent piece as usual, Ms Cyclefree. Watching those who would usually jump to the defence of sexual assault victims tie themselves up in knots about Assange is most amusing - although not as amusing as the looks on the faces of the luvvies who collectively lost £200,000 in bail money!
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Cannot imagine why some people think Leavers are similar to Nazis.RobD said:
Seems like a cheap way to close down debate on the issue. Just label everyone a nazi and you are done.Foxy said:
It very much depends on how much anti-immigrant rhethoric you can stand. If you are white British then it is easy to shrug it off, revel in it or merely benefit from it without speaking against it.isam said:Completely crackers
https://twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1117371973112225793?s=21
I suspect Lammy experiences it differently. Our Empire was built on force that enslaved his ancestors White supremacists are not some lairy pub talk to him, they are much more real. Are you surprised?
https://twitter.com/RTUKnews/status/743760672010416128
You lie with dogs, don't be surprised you catch fleas.0 -
Equally, this morning you were determined not to see anything worrying about a hard right politician talking about picking up his rifle at a time when one of his political opponents had been murdered.isam said:
I'm not particularly surprised because he sees racism in everything to keep himself in a jobFoxy said:
It very much depends on how much anti-immigrant rhethoric you can stand. If you are white British then it is easy to shrug it off, revel in it or merely benefit from it without speaking against it.isam said:Completely crackers
https://twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1117371973112225793?s=21
I suspect Lammy experiences it differently. Our Empire was built on force that enslaved his ancestors White supremacists are not some lairy pub talk to him, they are much more real. Are you surprised?
The kindest interpretation of the ERG is that they are tone deaf about what they say and do. Since some of them have brains, it’s hard to be that kind.0 -
It is easy for white people to be oblivious to racism, particularly when there is some gain involved.isam said:
I'm not particularly surprised because he sees racism in everything to keep himself in a jobFoxy said:
It very much depends on how much anti-immigrant rhethoric you can stand. If you are white British then it is easy to shrug it off, revel in it or merely benefit from it without speaking against it.isam said:Completely crackers
https://twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1117371973112225793?s=21
I suspect Lammy experiences it differently. Our Empire was built on force that enslaved his ancestors White supremacists are not some lairy pub talk to him, they are much more real. Are you surprised?
Maybe Lammy is just more tuned into it than you.
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On topic, you can dislike Julian Assange and all he stands for and still wonder whether the USA’s extradition attempts have pure motives.0
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Wow. In fairness to Lammy, Rees-Mogg had hitherto demonstrated an unfortunate knack of associating with pro-Apartheid and fascist-admiring elements, so his third such blooper might be stretching the elasticity of forgiveness a bit much.isam said:Completely crackers
https://twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1117371973112225793?s=210 -
Short shrift in L Towers presumably? Always wise to ask the lassies first though.DavidL said:Sorry to go OT quite so soon but my wife had a very detailed survey from Ipsos Mori this morning. Nearly all about Scottish independence with Brexit quite peripheral. I wondered if Nicola was testing the waters before her next big announcement.
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I think you've nailed it.AlastairMeeks said:On topic, you can dislike Julian Assange and all he stands for and still wonder whether the USA’s extradition attempts have pure motives.
Too many are playing the man not the ball.
American war crimes shouldn't be conflated with Assange's personal alleged criminal behaviour.0 -
Farage isnt hard right, and there is nothing wrong, or new,, in using war time analogies to describe political battles.AlastairMeeks said:
Equally, this morning you were determined not to see anything worrying about a hard right politician talking about picking up his rifle at a time when one of his political opponents had been murdered.isam said:
I'm not particularly surprised because he sees racism in everything to keep himself in a jobFoxy said:
It very much depends on how much anti-immigrant rhethoric you can stand. If you are white British then it is easy to shrug it off, revel in it or merely benefit from it without speaking against it.isam said:Completely crackers
https://twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1117371973112225793?s=21
I suspect Lammy experiences it differently. Our Empire was built on force that enslaved his ancestors White supremacists are not some lairy pub talk to him, they are much more real. Are you surprised?
The kindest interpretation of the ERG is that they are tone deaf about what they say and do. Since some of them have brains, it’s hard to be that kind.
Was his "rifle" quote better or worse than Osborne saying he'd like to chop Theresa May up and put her in his freezer?0 -
He's on the lookout for it more definitely.Foxy said:
It is easy for white people to be oblivious to racism, particularly when there is some gain involved.isam said:
I'm not particularly surprised because he sees racism in everything to keep himself in a jobFoxy said:
It very much depends on how much anti-immigrant rhethoric you can stand. If you are white British then it is easy to shrug it off, revel in it or merely benefit from it without speaking against it.isam said:Completely crackers
https://twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1117371973112225793?s=21
I suspect Lammy experiences it differently. Our Empire was built on force that enslaved his ancestors White supremacists are not some lairy pub talk to him, they are much more real. Are you surprised?
Maybe Lammy is just more tuned into it than you.
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Or perhaps his life experiences have caused him to see racism in everything? If you are subjected to racism a lot from when you are a kid, you are bound to see it as an issue later on.isam said:
I'm not particularly surprised because he sees racism in everything to keep himself in a jobFoxy said:
It very much depends on how much anti-immigrant rhethoric you can stand. If you are white British then it is easy to shrug it off, revel in it or merely benefit from it without speaking against it.isam said:Completely crackers
https://twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1117371973112225793?s=21
I suspect Lammy experiences it differently. Our Empire was built on force that enslaved his ancestors White supremacists are not some lairy pub talk to him, they are much more real. Are you surprised?
I used to quite like Lammy: he speaks very well on the societal problems facing young black men, and cares deeply about the subject. Racism is a significant part of a very complex jigsaw that does need resolving. He cares about it: and good on him for that. If he does do it to 'keep himself in a job' (and I fear that says more about you than him), then it would be because it matters to his constituents.
However, that feeling has somewhat diminished as he has frequently put his foot in his mouth on a variety of topics. He shows a distinct inflexibility of thinking that I would not expect from a barrister.
I've come to the conclusion that he's a well-educated fool: and in that he's hardly unique in parliament.0 -
Unfair.Foxy said:
It is easy for white people to be oblivious to racism, particularly when there is some gain involved.isam said:
I'm not particularly surprised because he sees racism in everything to keep himself in a jobFoxy said:
It very much depends on how much anti-immigrant rhethoric you can stand. If you are white British then it is easy to shrug it off, revel in it or merely benefit from it without speaking against it.isam said:Completely crackers
https://twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1117371973112225793?s=21
I suspect Lammy experiences it differently. Our Empire was built on force that enslaved his ancestors White supremacists are not some lairy pub talk to him, they are much more real. Are you surprised?
Maybe Lammy is just more tuned into it than you.
I'm sure Sam is hyper attuned to racism shown towards the white (or gammon tinted) British male.0 -
Or UKIP dismissing threats of rape of a female MP as acceptable satire:AlastairMeeks said:
Equally, this morning you were determined not to see anything worrying about a hard right politician talking about picking up his rifle at a time when one of his political opponents had been murdered.isam said:
I'm not particularly surprised because he sees racism in everything to keep himself in a jobFoxy said:
It very much depends on how much anti-immigrant rhethoric you can stand. If you are white British then it is easy to shrug it off, revel in it or merely benefit from it without speaking against it.isam said:Completely crackers
https://twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1117371973112225793?s=21
I suspect Lammy experiences it differently. Our Empire was built on force that enslaved his ancestors White supremacists are not some lairy pub talk to him, they are much more real. Are you surprised?
The kindest interpretation of the ERG is that they are tone deaf about what they say and do. Since some of them have brains, it’s hard to be that kind.
https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1117383276665028608?s=19
Be careful isam. These are not good people.0 -
Quito while you're ahead......Sunil_Prasannan said:0 -
I think you're Caracas.MarqueeMark said:
Quito while you're ahead......Sunil_Prasannan said:0 -
He is actually the only MP I have ever spoken to, I had a pint with him once and he seemed a nice enough bloke.JosiasJessop said:
Or perhaps his life experiences have caused him to see racism in everything? If you are subjected to racism a lot from when you are a kid, you are bound to see it as an issue later on.isam said:
I'm not particularly surprised because he sees racism in everything to keep himself in a jobFoxy said:
It very much depends on how much anti-immigrant rhethoric you can stand. If you are white British then it is easy to shrug it off, revel in it or merely benefit from it without speaking against it.isam said:Completely crackers
https://twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1117371973112225793?s=21
I suspect Lammy experiences it differently. Our Empire was built on force that enslaved his ancestors White supremacists are not some lairy pub talk to him, they are much more real. Are you surprised?
I used to quite like Lammy: he speaks very well on the societal problems facing young black men, and cares deeply about the subject. Racism is a significant part of a very complex jigsaw that does need resolving. He cares about it: and good on him for that. If he does do it to 'keep himself in a job' (and I fear that says more about you than him), then it would be because it matters to his constituents.
However, that feeling has somewhat diminished as he has frequently put his foot in his mouth on a variety of topics. He shows a distinct inflexibility of thinking that I would not expect from a barrister.
I've come to the conclusion that he's a well-educated fool: and in that he's hardly unique in parliament.
But he has a long record of gaffes that show his prejudice, that isnt my opinion but fact. He hasn't had a bad life, University educated, Harvard, a lawyer etc I dont feel that i have to feel sorry for him in any way or guilty that I am white and he is black.0 -
I think Lammy is overstating his case, but we had better keep an eye on the direction things are going to make sure reality doesn't catch up with him. I think it is questionable that Rees-Mogg is a suitable candidate for a mainstream party for example.Foxy said:
It very much depends on how much anti-immigrant rhethoric you can stand. If you are white British then it is easy to shrug it off, revel in it or merely benefit from it without speaking against it.isam said:Completely crackers
https://twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1117371973112225793?s=21
I suspect Lammy experiences it differently. Our Empire was built on force that enslaved his ancestors White supremacists are not some lairy pub talk to him, they are much more real. Are you surprised?0 -
The Inca isn't dry on that one!MarqueeMark said:
Quito while you're ahead......Sunil_Prasannan said:0 -
I can laugh it off. Bitter losers who were bullied at school being lairy on social mediaTheuniondivvie said:
Unfair.Foxy said:
It is easy for white people to be oblivious to racism, particularly when there is some gain involved.isam said:
I'm not particularly surprised because he sees racism in everything to keep himself in a jobFoxy said:
It very much depends on how much anti-immigrant rhethoric you can stand. If you are white British then it is easy to shrug it off, revel in it or merely benefit from it without speaking against it.isam said:Completely crackers
https://twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1117371973112225793?s=21
I suspect Lammy experiences it differently. Our Empire was built on force that enslaved his ancestors White supremacists are not some lairy pub talk to him, they are much more real. Are you surprised?
Maybe Lammy is just more tuned into it than you.
I'm sure Sam is hyper attuned to racism shown towards the white (or gammon tinted) British male.0 -
Far worse. There is no track record of liberal Conservatives dismembering politicians (and note George Osborne spoke in private and apologised for his words). There is a long term and growing problem of the anti-immigrant anti-EU right spawning violent supporters. Using their language encourages them and validates their worldview.isam said:
Farage isnt hard right, and there is nothing wrong, or new,, in using war time analogies to describe political battles.AlastairMeeks said:
Equally, this morning you were determined not to see anything worrying about a hard right politician talking about picking up his rifle at a time when one of his political opponents had been murdered.isam said:
I'm not particularly surprised because he sees racism in everything to keep himself in a jobFoxy said:
It very much depends on how much anti-immigrant rhethoric you can stand. If you are white British then it is easy to shrug it off, revel in it or merely benefit from it without speaking against it.isam said:Completely crackers
https://twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1117371973112225793?s=21
I suspect Lammy experiences it differently. Our Empire was built on force that enslaved his ancestors White supremacists are not some lairy pub talk to him, they are much more real. Are you surprised?
The kindest interpretation of the ERG is that they are tone deaf about what they say and do. Since some of them have brains, it’s hard to be that kind.
Was his "rifle" quote better or worse than Osborne saying he'd like to chop Theresa May up and put her in his freezer?0 -
That is borderline crazy. I cant quite believe you are saying it.AlastairMeeks said:
Far worse. There is no track record of liberal Conservatives dismembering politicians (and note George Osborne spoke in private and apologised for his words). There is a long term and growing problem of the anti-immigrant anti-EU right spawning violent supporters. Using their language encourages them and validates their worldview.isam said:
Farage isnt hard right, and there is nothing wrong, or new,, in using war time analogies to describe political battles.AlastairMeeks said:
Equally, this morning you were determined not to see anything worrying about a hard right politician talking about picking up his rifle at a time when one of his political opponents had been murdered.isam said:
I'm not particularly surprised because he sees racism in everything to keep himself in a jobFoxy said:
It very much depends on how much anti-immigrant rhethoric you can stand. If you are white British then it is easy to shrug it off, revel in it or merely benefit from it without speaking against it.isam said:Completely crackers
https://twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1117371973112225793?s=21
I suspect Lammy experiences it differently. Our Empire was built on force that enslaved his ancestors White supremacists are not some lairy pub talk to him, they are much more real. Are you surprised?
The kindest interpretation of the ERG is that they are tone deaf about what they say and do. Since some of them have brains, it’s hard to be that kind.
Was his "rifle" quote better or worse than Osborne saying he'd like to chop Theresa May up and put her in his freezer?0 -
Knock it off you lot. You Olmec terrible punsFoxy said:
The Inca isn't dry on that one!MarqueeMark said:
Quito while you're ahead......Sunil_Prasannan said:0 -
One can but hope DavidDavidL said:Sorry to go OT quite so soon but my wife had a very detailed survey from Ipsos Mori this morning. Nearly all about Scottish independence with Brexit quite peripheral. I wondered if Nicola was testing the waters before her next big announcement.
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What do you regard as crazy? That politicians need to consider their audience when choosing their words? Seems a statement of the obvious to me.isam said:
That is borderline crazy. I cant quite believe you are saying it.AlastairMeeks said:
Far worse. There is no track record of liberal Conservatives dismembering politicians (and note George Osborne spoke in private and apologised for his words). There is a long term and growing problem of the anti-immigrant anti-EU right spawning violent supporters. Using their language encourages them and validates their worldview.isam said:
Farage isnt hard right, and there is nothing wrong, or new,, in using war time analogies to describe political battles.AlastairMeeks said:
Equally, this morning you were determined not to see anything worrying about a hard right politician talking about picking up his rifle at a time when one of his political opponents had been murdered.isam said:
I'm not particularly surprised because he sees racism in everything to keep himself in a jobFoxy said:
It very much depends on how much anti-immigrant rhethoric you can stand. If you are white British then it is easy to shrug it off, revel in it or merely benefit from it without speaking against it.isam said:Completely crackers
https://twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1117371973112225793?s=21
I suspect Lammy experiences it differently. Our Empire was built on force that enslaved his ancestors White supremacists are not some lairy pub talk to him, they are much more real. Are you surprised?
The kindest interpretation of the ERG is that they are tone deaf about what they say and do. Since some of them have brains, it’s hard to be that kind.
Was his "rifle" quote better or worse than Osborne saying he'd like to chop Theresa May up and put her in his freezer?0 -
In a field of very stiff competition, I'm calling that your finest ever thread header Cyclefree, for all the grimness of the subject matter. I agree with every single word and I only wish I had expressed it as eloquently myself below the line.
'Would it be too much to hope that those aiming for high office be aware of these pretty basic requirements?'
Sadly the answer appears to be 'yes.' How far we have fallen.0 -
He is a total prat howeverFoxy said:
It is easy for white people to be oblivious to racism, particularly when there is some gain involved.isam said:
I'm not particularly surprised because he sees racism in everything to keep himself in a jobFoxy said:
It very much depends on how much anti-immigrant rhethoric you can stand. If you are white British then it is easy to shrug it off, revel in it or merely benefit from it without speaking against it.isam said:Completely crackers
https://twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1117371973112225793?s=21
I suspect Lammy experiences it differently. Our Empire was built on force that enslaved his ancestors White supremacists are not some lairy pub talk to him, they are much more real. Are you surprised?
Maybe Lammy is just more tuned into it than you.0 -
That Farage making the analogy of a soldier going to war to illustrate taking on political opponents is worse than George Osborne saying he would like to chop Theresa May up and put her in his freezer.AlastairMeeks said:
What do you regard as crazy? That politicians need to consider their audience when choosing their words? Seems a statement of the obvious to me.isam said:
That is borderline crazy. I cant quite believe you are saying it.AlastairMeeks said:
Far worse. There is no track record of liberal Conservatives dismembering politicians (and note George Osborne spoke in private and apologised for his words). There is a long term and growing problem of the anti-immigrant anti-EU right spawning violent supporters. Using their language encourages them and validates their worldview.isam said:
Farage isnt hard right, and there is nothing wrong, or new,, in using war time analogies to describe political battles.AlastairMeeks said:
Equally, this morning you were determined not to see anything worrying about a hard right politician talking about picking up his rifle at a time when one of his political opponents had been murdered.isam said:
I'm not particularly surprised because he sees racism in everything to keep himself in a jobFoxy said:
It very much depends on how much anti-immigrant rhethoric you can stand. If you are white British then it is easy to shrug it off, revel in it or merely benefit from it without speaking against it.isam said:Completely crackers
https://twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1117371973112225793?s=21
I suspect Lammy experiences it differently. Our Empire was built on force that enslaved his ancestors White supremacists are not some lairy pub talk to him, they are much more real. Are you surprised?
The kindest interpretation of the ERG is that they are tone deaf about what they say and do. Since some of them have brains, it’s hard to be that kind.
Was his "rifle" quote better or worse than Osborne saying he'd like to chop Theresa May up and put her in his freezer?0 -
One is likely to lead to real violence. One is not. The one that is likely to lead to real violence is worse.isam said:
That Farage making the analogy of a soldier going to war to illustrate taking on political opponents is worse than George Osborne saying he would like to chop Theresa May up and put her in his freezer.AlastairMeeks said:
What do you regard as crazy? That politicians need to consider their audience when choosing their words? Seems a statement of the obvious to me.isam said:
That is borderline crazy. I cant quite believe you are saying it.AlastairMeeks said:
Far worse. There is no track record of liberal Conservatives dismembering politicians (and note George Osborne spoke in private and apologised for his words). There is a long term and growing problem of the anti-immigrant anti-EU right spawning violent supporters. Using their language encourages them and validates their worldview.isam said:
Farage isnt hard right, and there is nothing wrong, or new,, in using war time analogies to describe political battles.AlastairMeeks said:
Equally, this morning you were determined not to see anything worrying about a hard right politician talking about picking up his rifle at a time when one of his political opponents had been murdered.isam said:
I'm not particularly surprised because he sees racism in everything to keep himself in a jobFoxy said:
It very much depends on how much anti-immigrant rhethoric you can stand. If you are white British then it is easy to shrug it off, revel in it or merely benefit from it without speaking against it.isam said:Completely crackers
https://twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1117371973112225793?s=21
I suspect Lammy experiences it differently. Our Empire was built on force that enslaved his ancestors White supremacists are not some lairy pub talk to him, they are much more real. Are you surprised?
The kindest interpretation of the ERG is that they are tone deaf about what they say and do. Since some of them have brains, it’s hard to be that kind.
Was his "rifle" quote better or worse than Osborne saying he'd like to chop Theresa May up and put her in his freezer?0 -
It is not crazy. Just last week Jack Renshaw was sentenced, as part of a radical right wing terrorism in this country.isam said:
That is borderline crazy. I cant quite believe you are saying it.AlastairMeeks said:
Far worse. There is no track record of liberal Conservatives dismembering politicians (and note George Osborne spoke in private and apologised for his words). There is a long term and growing problem of the anti-immigrant anti-EU right spawning violent supporters. Using their language encourages them and validates their worldview.isam said:
Farage isnt hard right, and there is nothing wrong, or new,, in using war time analogies to describe political battles.AlastairMeeks said:
Equally, this morning you were determined not to see anything worrying about a hard right politician talking about picking up his rifle at a time when one of his political opponents had been murdered.isam said:
I'm not particularly surprised because he sees racism in everything to keep himself in a jobFoxy said:
It very much depends on how much anti-immigrant rhethoric you can stand. If you are white British then it is easy to shrug it off, revel in it or merely benefit from it without speaking against it.isam said:Completely crackers
https://twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1117371973112225793?s=21
I suspect Lammy experiences it differently. Our Empire was built on force that enslaved his ancestors White supremacists are not some lairy pub talk to him, they are much more real. Are you surprised?
The kindest interpretation of the ERG is that they are tone deaf about what they say and do. Since some of them have brains, it’s hard to be that kind.
Was his "rifle" quote better or worse than Osborne saying he'd like to chop Theresa May up and put her in his freezer?
Sure, only a few Leavers are twisted enough to follow that path, but we should not be their apologists, should we isam?0 -
I think it's also fair to say you can think Assange deserves everything he's about to get and still think our extradition arrangements with the US are an utter disgrace that need changing as a matter of the highest priority.SandyRentool said:
I think you've nailed it.AlastairMeeks said:On topic, you can dislike Julian Assange and all he stands for and still wonder whether the USA’s extradition attempts have pure motives.
Too many are playing the man not the ball.
American war crimes shouldn't be conflated with Assange's personal alleged criminal behaviour.
But Assange is pretty well without redeeming features. Let's not forget that originally the US didn't want him. I can't help but wonder whether what's changed is his ongoing interference in the US at the apparent behes of Putin. Let's equally not forget he was one factor, however minor, in the victory of Trump, which has been even worse than I feared it would.0 -
Christ, this thread.0
-
Sorry to hear that things are rough for you JJ. Hope they get better soon.JosiasJessop said:
Believe me, after the last few days I'm in need of a little victory.Cyclefree said:
Never mind. I can be the first to congratulate you!JosiasJessop said:An excellent post, Ms Free. The MPs should know better.
My own view: Assange is a self-serving nasty fool, a publicity-seeker who has managed to con a whole load of people, and place others (including a member of my family) in trouble, or even danger.
When talking about the law, we need to leave all those admirable qualities to one side. Aside from jumping bail (and how much I LOL at his supporters who lost money on his bail), then it would not surprise me if there was not enough evidence or cause for an extradition to go through. In which case the government could be faced with other difficult problems and decisions.
Edit: and first. Sorry, Ms Free,0 -
Good afternoon, everyone.
Dr. Foxy, Lammy is so tuned into racism he can see it when no-one else can. Who can forget his powers of perception revealing unto us pasty mortals the racism of white pope smoke? Or the racism of helping people in Africa?
Damned white people and their charitable endeavours!
And his criticism, in part, of the Grenfell Tower inquiry judge on the basis of the judge's whiteness was rancid.0 -
It's not worth going round in circles, I completely disagree with you, it is allowed.AlastairMeeks said:
One is likely to lead to real violence. One is not. The one that is likely to lead to real violence is worse.isam said:
That Farage making the analogy of a soldier going to war to illustrate taking on political opponents is worse than George Osborne saying he would like to chop Theresa May up and put her in his freezer.AlastairMeeks said:
What do you regard as crazy? That politicians need to consider their audience when choosing their words? Seems a statement of the obvious to me.isam said:
That is borderline crazy. I cant quite believe you are saying it.AlastairMeeks said:
Far worse. There is no track record of liberal Conservatives dismembering politicians (and note George Osborne spoke in private and apologised for his words). There is a long term and growing problem of the anti-immigrant anti-EU right spawning violent supporters. Using their language encourages them and validates their worldview.isam said:
Farage isnt hard right, and there is nothing wrong, or new,, in using war time analogies to describe political battles.AlastairMeeks said:
Equally, this morning you were determined not to see anything worrying about a hard right politician talking about picking up his rifle at a time when one of his political opponents had been murdered.isam said:
I'm not particularly surprised because he sees racism in everything to keep himself in a jobFoxy said:
It very much depends on how much anti-immigrant rhethoric you can stand. If you are white British then it is easy to shrug it off, revel in it or merely benefit from it without speaking against it.isam said:Completely crackers
https://twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1117371973112225793?s=21
I suspect Lammy experiences it differently. Our Empire was built on force that enslaved his ancestors White supremacists are not some lairy pub talk to him, they are much more real. Are you surprised?
The kindest interpretation of the ERG is that they are tone deaf about what they say and do. Since some of them have brains, it’s hard to be that kind.
Was his "rifle" quote better or worse than Osborne saying he'd like to chop Theresa May up and put her in his freezer?0 -
Surely that's next week?brokenwheel said:Christ, this thread.
0 -
Yes, he can be a little polemical, and often wrong, but I wouldn't say a total prat. More the curates egg, and good in parts.malcolmg said:
He is a total prat howeverFoxy said:
It is easy for white people to be oblivious to racism, particularly when there is some gain involved.isam said:
I'm not particularly surprised because he sees racism in everything to keep himself in a jobFoxy said:
It very much depends on how much anti-immigrant rhethoric you can stand. If you are white British then it is easy to shrug it off, revel in it or merely benefit from it without speaking against it.isam said:Completely crackers
https://twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1117371973112225793?s=21
I suspect Lammy experiences it differently. Our Empire was built on force that enslaved his ancestors White supremacists are not some lairy pub talk to him, they are much more real. Are you surprised?
Maybe Lammy is just more tuned into it than you.0 -
Mr. Jessop, hope things get better soon
0 -
He can certainly see it in places where you turn a blind eye. We live in a country and society that has a long history of racosm and misogyny. Fortunately most of the most egregious bits are in the past, but it does still shape our society and thinking in many ways.Morris_Dancer said:Good afternoon, everyone.
Dr. Foxy, Lammy is so tuned into racism he can see it when no-one else can. Who can forget his powers of perception revealing unto us pasty mortals the racism of white pope smoke? Or the racism of helping people in Africa?
Damned white people and their charitable endeavours!
And his criticism, in part, of the Grenfell Tower inquiry judge on the basis of the judge's whiteness was rancid.0 -
I suspect that Lammy is as much of a fool as the people he criticises.Foxy said:
It very much depends on how much anti-immigrant rhethoric you can stand. If you are white British then it is easy to shrug it off, revel in it or merely benefit from it without speaking against it.isam said:Completely crackers
https://twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1117371973112225793?s=21
I suspect Lammy experiences it differently. Our Empire was built on force that enslaved his ancestors White supremacists are not some lairy pub talk to him, they are much more real. Are you surprised?0 -
I’m very used to people disagreeing with me. I was simply explaining why I think what I think since you found it baffling.isam said:
It's not worth going round in circles, I completely disagree with you, it is allowed.AlastairMeeks said:
One is likely to lead to real violence. One is not. The one that is likely to lead to real violence is worse.isam said:
That Farage making the analogy of a soldier going to war to illustrate taking on political opponents is worse than George Osborne saying he would like to chop Theresa May up and put her in his freezer.AlastairMeeks said:
What do you regard as crazy? That politicians need to consider their audience when choosing their words? Seems a statement of the obvious to me.isam said:
That is borderline crazy. I cant quite believe you are saying it.AlastairMeeks said:
Far worse. There is no track record of liberal Conservatives dismembering politicians (and note George Osborne spoke in private and apologised for his words). There is a long term and growing problem of the anti-immigrant anti-EU right spawning violent supporters. Using their language encourages them and validates their worldview.isam said:
Farage isnt hard right, and there is nothing wrong, or new,, in using war time analogies to describe political battles.AlastairMeeks said:
Equally, this morning you were determined not to see anything worrying about a hard right politician talking about picking up his rifle at a time when one of his political opponents had been murdered.isam said:
I'm not particularly surprised because he sees racism in everything to keep himself in a jobFoxy said:
It very much depends on how much anti-immigrant rhethoric you can stand. If you are white British then it is easy to shrug it off, revel in it or merely benefit from it without speaking against it.isam said:Completely crackers
https://twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1117371973112225793?s=21
I suspect Lammy experiences it differently. Our Empire was built on force that enslaved his ancestors White supremacists are not some lairy pub talk to him, they are much more real. Are you surprised?
The kindest interpretation of the ERG is that they are tone deaf about what they say and do. Since some of them have brains, it’s hard to be that kind.
Was his "rifle" quote better or worse than Osborne saying he'd like to chop Theresa May up and put her in his freezer?0 -
Dr. Foxy, he criticised the suitability of a man for a job based on the colour of his skin. That might make sense if the job were playing the role of Othello, but it wasn't.0
-
Perhaps he just dislikes white peopleFoxy said:
He can certainly see it in places where you turn a blind eye. We live in a country and society that has a long history of racosm and misogyny. Fortunately most of the most egregious bits are in the past, but it does still shape our society and thinking in many ways.Morris_Dancer said:Good afternoon, everyone.
Dr. Foxy, Lammy is so tuned into racism he can see it when no-one else can. Who can forget his powers of perception revealing unto us pasty mortals the racism of white pope smoke? Or the racism of helping people in Africa?
Damned white people and their charitable endeavours!
And his criticism, in part, of the Grenfell Tower inquiry judge on the basis of the judge's whiteness was rancid.0 -
I am not apologising for anyone who has done such things.Foxy said:
It is not crazy. Just last week Jack Renshaw was sentenced, as part of a radical right wing terrorism in this country.isam said:
That is borderline crazy. I cant quite believe you are saying it.AlastairMeeks said:
Far worse. There is no track record of liberal Conservatives dismembering politicians (and note George Osborne spoke in private and apologised for his words). There is a long term and growing problem of the anti-immigrant anti-EU right spawning violent supporters. Using their language encourages them and validates their worldview.isam said:
Farage isnt hard right, and there is nothing wrong, or new,, in using war time analogies to describe political battles.AlastairMeeks said:
Equally, this morning you were determined not to see anything worrying about a hard right politician talking about picking up his rifle at a time when one of his political opponents had been murdered.isam said:
I'm not particularly surprised because he sees racism in everything to keep himself in a jobFoxy said:
It very much depends on how much anti-immigrant rhethoric you can stand. If you are white British then it is easy to shrug it off, revel in it or merely benefit from it without speaking against it.isam said:Completely crackers
https://twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1117371973112225793?s=21
I suspect Lammy experiences it differently. Our Empire was built on force that enslaved his ancestors White supremacists are not some lairy pub talk to him, they are much more real. Are you surprised?
The kindest interpretation of the ERG is that they are tone deaf about what they say and do. Since some of them have brains, it’s hard to be that kind.
Was his "rifle" quote better or worse than Osborne saying he'd like to chop Theresa May up and put her in his freezer?
Sure, only a few Leavers are twisted enough to follow that path, but we should not be their apologists, should we isam?
0 -
I just cant imagine thinking it would be ok for Farage to say he wanted to chop a woman up and put her in his freezer while criticising Osborne for making a military/political analogy. Each to their ownAlastairMeeks said:
I’m very used to people disagreeing with me. I was simply explaining why I think what I think since you found it baffling.isam said:
It's not worth going round in circles, I completely disagree with you, it is allowed.AlastairMeeks said:
One is likely to lead to real violence. One is not. The one that is likely to lead to real violence is worse.isam said:
That Farage making the analogy of a soldier going to war to illustrate taking on political opponents is worse than George Osborne saying he would like to chop Theresa May up and put her in his freezer.AlastairMeeks said:
What do you regard as crazy? That politicians need to consider their audience when choosing their words? Seems a statement of the obvious to me.isam said:
That is borderline crazy. I cant quite believe you are saying it.AlastairMeeks said:
Far worse. There is no track record of liberal Conservatives dismembering politicians (and note George Osborne spoke in private and apologised for his words). There is a long term and growing problem of the anti-immigrant anti-EU right spawning violent supporters. Using their language encourages them and validates their worldview.isam said:
Farage isnt hard right, and there is nothing wrong, or new,, in using war time analogies to describe political battles.AlastairMeeks said:isam said:
I'm not particularly surprised because he sees racism in everything to keep himself in a jobFoxy said:
It very much depends on how much anti-immigrant rhethoric you can stand. If you are white British then it is easy to shrug it off, revel in it or merely benefit from it without speaking against it.isam said:Completely crackers
https://twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1117371973112225793?s=21
I suspect Lammy experiences it differently. Our Empire was built on force that enslaved his ancestors White supremacists are not some lairy pub talk to him, they are much more real. Are you surprised?
.
Was his "rifle" quote better or worse than Osborne saying he'd like to chop Theresa May up and put her in his freezer?0 -
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5989051/labour-mp-david-lammy-mocked-for-claiming-he-had-seen-no-police-on-streets-since-london-violence-as-cop-stood-behind-him/Sean_F said:
I suspect that Lammy is as much of a fool as the people he criticises.Foxy said:
It very much depends on how much anti-immigrant rhethoric you can stand. If you are white British then it is easy to shrug it off, revel in it or merely benefit from it without speaking against it.isam said:Completely crackers
https://twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1117371973112225793?s=21
I suspect Lammy experiences it differently. Our Empire was built on force that enslaved his ancestors White supremacists are not some lairy pub talk to him, they are much more real. Are you surprised?0 -
Analogy?isam said:
That Farage making the analogy of a soldier going to war to illustrate taking on political opponents is worse than George Osborne saying he would like to chop Theresa May up and put her in his freezer.AlastairMeeks said:
What do you regard as crazy? That politicians need to consider their audience when choosing their words? Seems a statement of the obvious to me.isam said:
That is borderline crazy. I cant quite believe you are saying it.AlastairMeeks said:
Far worse. There is no track record of liberal Conservatives dismembering politicians (and note George Osborne spoke in private and apologised for his words). There is a long term and growing problem of the anti-immigrant anti-EU right spawning violent supporters. Using their language encourages them and validates their worldview.isam said:
Farage isnt hard right, and there is nothing wrong, or new,, in using war time analogies to describe political battles.AlastairMeeks said:
Equally, this morning you were determined not to see anything worrying about a hard right politician talking about picking up his rifle at a time when one of his political opponents had been murdered.isam said:
I'm not particularly surprised because he sees racism in everything to keep himself in a jobFoxy said:
It very much depends on how much anti-immigrant rhethoric you can stand. If you are white British then it is easy to shrug it off, revel in it or merely benefit from it without speaking against it.isam said:Completely crackers
https://twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1117371973112225793?s=21
I suspect Lammy experiences it differently. Our Empire was built on force that enslaved his ancestors White supremacists are not some lairy pub talk to him, they are much more real. Are you surprised?
The kindest interpretation of the ERG is that they are tone deaf about what they say and do. Since some of them have brains, it’s hard to be that kind.
Was his "rifle" quote better or worse than Osborne saying he'd like to chop Theresa May up and put her in his freezer?
Farage in 2016:
""I think it's legitimate to say that if people feel they have lost control completely, and we have lost control of our borders completely as members of the EU, and if people feel that voting doesn't change anything then violence is the next step."
"I find it difficult to contemplate it happening here, but nothing's impossible."
0 -
Context is everything. If you shout “fire” in a crowded theatre you may cause deaths. Shout the same thing at a bonfire at home and you risk nothing.isam said:
I just cant imagine thinking it would be ok for Farage to say he wanted to chop a woman up and put her in his freezer while criticising Osborne for making a military/political analogy. Each to their ownAlastairMeeks said:
I’m very used to people disagreeing with me. I was simply explaining why I think what I think since you found it baffling.isam said:
It's not worth going round in circles, I completely disagree with you, it is allowed.AlastairMeeks said:
One is likely to lead to real violence. One is not. The one that is likely to lead to real violence is worse.isam said:
That Farage making the analogy of a soldier going to war to illustrate taking on political opponents is worse than George Osborne saying he would like to chop Theresa May up and put her in his freezer.AlastairMeeks said:
What do you regard as crazy? That politicians need to consider their audience when choosing their words? Seems a statement of the obvious to me.isam said:
That is borderline crazy. I cant quite believe you are saying it.AlastairMeeks said:
Far worse. There is no track record of liberal Conservatives dismembering politicians (and note George Osborne spoke in private and apologised for his words). There is a long term and growing problem of the anti-immigrant anti-EU right spawning violent supporters. Using their language encourages them and validates their worldview.isam said:
Farage isnt hard right, and there is nothing wrong, or new,, in using war time analogies to describe political battles.
Was his "rifle" quote better or worse than Osborne saying he'd like to chop Theresa May up and put her in his freezer?
Nigel Farage is shouting fire in a crowded theatre.0 -
I don't expect you to feel sorry for him, or feel guilty in any way.isam said:
He is actually the only MP I have ever spoken to, I had a pint with him once and he seemed a nice enough bloke.JosiasJessop said:
Or perhaps his life experiences have caused him to see racism in everything? If you are subjected to racism a lot from when you are a kid, you are bound to see it as an issue later on.isam said:
I'm not particularly surprised because he sees racism in everything to keep himself in a jobFoxy said:
It very much depends on how much anti-immigrant rhethoric you can stand. If you are white British then it is easy to shrug it off, revel in it or merely benefit from it without speaking against it.isam said:Completely crackers
https://twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1117371973112225793?s=21
I suspect Lammy experiences it differently. Our Empire was built on force that enslaved his ancestors White supremacists are not some lairy pub talk to him, they are much more real. Are you surprised?
I used to quite like Lammy: he speaks very well on the societal problems facing young black men, and cares deeply about the subject. Racism is a significant part of a very complex jigsaw that does need resolving. He cares about it: and good on him for that. If he does do it to 'keep himself in a job' (and I fear that says more about you than him), then it would be because it matters to his constituents.
However, that feeling has somewhat diminished as he has frequently put his foot in his mouth on a variety of topics. He shows a distinct inflexibility of thinking that I would not expect from a barrister.
I've come to the conclusion that he's a well-educated fool: and in that he's hardly unique in parliament.
But he has a long record of gaffes that show his prejudice, that isnt my opinion but fact. He hasn't had a bad life, University educated, Harvard, a lawyer etc I dont feel that i have to feel sorry for him in any way or guilty that I am white and he is black.
However I do think it's important to try to understand why he comes out with the stuff he does: and then perhaps realise where he's coming from, even if he's often mistaken.
On the same way people should try to understand where other sections of society are coming from, even if they are also often wrong.0 -
Excellent header, as usual Cyclefree...and lest those following the Putin line that Assange is a 'journalist' forget that unlike responsible outlets - like the Guardian, which redacted names in reporting Wikileaks - Assange did not:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/jul/30/us-military-wikileaks-afghanistan-war-logs0 -
Has George Osborne saying he would like to chop Theresa May up and put her in his freezer taken over from endless panegyrics to Enoch Powell? Can't say it's an improvement.0
-
I disagreeAlastairMeeks said:
Context is everything. If you shout “fire” in a crowded theatre you may cause deaths. Shout the same thing at a bonfire at home and you risk nothing.isam said:
I just cant imagine thinking it would be ok for Farage to say he wanted to chop a woman up and put her in his freezer while criticising Osborne for making a military/political analogy. Each to their ownAlastairMeeks said:
I’m very used to people disagreeing with me. I was simply explaining why I think what I think since you found it baffling.isam said:
It's not worth going round in circles, I completely disagree with you, it is allowed.AlastairMeeks said:
One is likely to lead to real violence. One is not. The one that is likely to lead to real violence is worse.isam said:
That Farage making the analogy of a soldier going to war to illustrate taking on political opponents is worse than George Osborne saying he would like to chop Theresa May up and put her in his freezer.AlastairMeeks said:
What do you regard as crazy? That politicians need to consider their audience when choosing their words? Seems a statement of the obvious to me.isam said:
That is borderline crazy. I cant quite believe you are saying it.AlastairMeeks said:
Far worse. There is no track record of liberal Conservatives dismembering politicians (and note George Osborne spoke in private and apologised for his words). There is a long term and growing problem of the anti-immigrant anti-EU right spawning violent supporters. Using their language encourages them and validates their worldview.isam said:
Farage isnt hard right, and there is nothing wrong, or new,, in using war time analogies to describe political battles.
Was his "rifle" quote better or worse than Osborne saying he'd like to chop Theresa May up and put her in his freezer?
Nigel Farage is shouting fire in a crowded theatre.0 -
You disagree with Richard Tyndall then, who has predicted violence from Brexiteers?isam said:
I disagreeAlastairMeeks said:
Context is everything. If you shout “fire” in a crowded theatre you may cause deaths. Shout the same thing at a bonfire at home and you risk nothing.isam said:
I just cant imagine thinking it would be ok for Farage to say he wanted to chop a woman up and put her in his freezer while criticising Osborne for making a military/political analogy. Each to their ownAlastairMeeks said:
I’m very used to people disagreeing with me. I was simply explaining why I think what I think since you found it baffling.isam said:
It's not worth going round in circles, I completely disagree with you, it is allowed.AlastairMeeks said:
One is likely to lead to real violence. One is not. The one that is likely to lead to real violence is worse.isam said:
That Farage making the analogy of a soldier going to war to illustrate taking on political opponents is worse than George Osborne saying he would like to chop Theresa May up and put her in his freezer.AlastairMeeks said:
What do you regard as crazy? That politicians need to consider their audience when choosing their words? Seems a statement of the obvious to me.isam said:
That is borderline crazy. I cant quite believe you are saying it.AlastairMeeks said:
Far worse. There is no track record of liberal Conservatives dismembering politicians (and note George Osborne spoke in private and apologised for his words). There is a long term and growing problem of the anti-immigrant anti-EU right spawning violent supporters. Using their language encourages them and validates their worldview.isam said:
Farage isnt hard right, and there is nothing wrong, or new,, in using war time analogies to describe political battles.
Was his "rifle" quote better or worse than Osborne saying he'd like to chop Theresa May up and put her in his freezer?
Nigel Farage is shouting fire in a crowded theatre.0 -
If Enoch had said he'd like to chop up Edward Heath and put him in a freezer I'd have thought it were worthy of criticismTheuniondivvie said:Has George Osborne saying he would like to chop Theresa May up and put her in his freezer taken over from endless panegyrics to Enoch Powell? Can't say it's an improvement.
0 -
I do try to do the latter, hence I don't use pejorative terms for comfortably off Remainers who voted, in my opinion, to continue to damage the lives of the working class, and just think of them as lacking in empathy.JosiasJessop said:
I don't expect you to feel sorry for him, or feel guilty in any way.isam said:
He is actually the only MP I have ever spoken to, I had a pint with him once and he seemed a nice enough bloke.JosiasJessop said:
Or perhaps his life experiences have caused him to see racism in everything? If you are subjected to racism a lot from when you are a kid, you are bound to see it as an issue later on.isam said:
I'm not particularly surprised because he sees racism in everything to keep himself in a jobFoxy said:
It very much depends on how much anti-immigrant rhethoric you can stand. If you are white British then it is easy to shrug it off, revel in it or merely benefit from it without speaking against it.isam said:Completely crackers
https://twitter.com/bbcpolitics/status/1117371973112225793?s=21
I suspect Lammy experiences it differently. Our Empire was built on force that enslaved his ancestors White supremacists are not some lairy pub talk to him, they are much more real. Are you surprised?
I used to quite like Lammy: he speaks very well on the societal problems facing young black men, and cares deeply about the subject. Racism is a significant part of a very complex jigsaw that does need resolving. He cares about it: and good on him for that. If he does do it to 'keep himself in a job' (and I fear that says more about you than him), then it would be because it matters to his constituents.
However, that feeling has somewhat diminished as he has frequently put his foot in his mouth on a variety of topics. He shows a distinct inflexibility of thinking that I would not expect from a barrister.
I've come to the conclusion that he's a well-educated fool: and in that he's hardly unique in parliament.
But he has a long record of gaffes that show his prejudice, that isnt my opinion but fact. He hasn't had a bad life, University educated, Harvard, a lawyer etc I dont feel that i have to feel sorry for him in any way or guilty that I am white and he is black.
However I do think it's important to try to understand why he comes out with the stuff he does: and then perhaps realise where he's coming from, even if he's often mistaken.
On the same way people should try to understand where other sections of society are coming from, even if they are also often wrong.0 -
No I disagree that George Osborne's turn of phrase was not more worthy of criticism than Farage's analogy.williamglenn said:
You disagree with Richard Tyndall then, who has predicted violence from Brexiteers?isam said:
I disagreeAlastairMeeks said:
Context is everything. If you shout “fire” in a crowded theatre you may cause deaths. Shout the same thing at a bonfire at home and you risk nothing.isam said:
I just cant imagine thinking it would be ok for Farage to say he wanted to chop a woman up and put her in his freezer while criticising Osborne for making a military/political analogy. Each to their ownAlastairMeeks said:
I’m very used to people disagreeing with me. I was simply explaining why I think what I think since you found it baffling.isam said:
It's not worth going round in circles, I completely disagree with you, it is allowed.AlastairMeeks said:
One is likely to lead to real violence. One is not. The one that is likely to lead to real violence is worse.isam said:
That Farage making the analogy of a soldier going to war to illustrate taking on political opponents is worse than George Osborne saying he would like to chop Theresa May up and put her in his freezer.AlastairMeeks said:
What do you regard as crazy? That politicians need to consider their audience when choosing their words? Seems a statement of the obvious to me.isam said:
That is borderline crazy. I cant quite believe you are saying it.AlastairMeeks said:
Far worse. There is no track record of liberal Conservatives dismembering politicians (and note George Osborne spoke in private and apologised for his words). There is a long term and growing problem of the anti-immigrant anti-EU right spawning violent supporters. Using their language encourages them and validates their worldview.isam said:
Farage isnt hard right, and there is nothing wrong, or new,, in using war time analogies to describe political battles.
Was his "rifle" quote better or worse than Osborne saying he'd like to chop Theresa May up and put her in his freezer?
Nigel Farage is shouting fire in a crowded theatre.0 -
What do you think of working class Remainers?isam said:I do try to do the latter, hence I don't use pejorative terms for comfortably off Remainers who voted, in my opinion, to continue to damage the lives of the working class, and just think of them as lacking in empathy.
0 -
The Guardian deserves no credit for the redaction they and other media organisations did, as two of their 'journalists' 'accidentally' released the password for the master unredacted archive, which is why they're in the wild.CarlottaVance said:Excellent header, as usual Cyclefree...and lest those following the Putin line that Assange is a 'journalist' forget that unlike responsible outlets - like the Guardian, which redacted names in reporting Wikileaks - Assange did not:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/jul/30/us-military-wikileaks-afghanistan-war-logs
They were utterly irresponsible. Personally the incident is so egregious it has to be deliberate.0 -
If you really do try to understand where other people are coming from, then the comments you've made on this thread about Lammy seem rather odd.isam said:I do try to do the latter, hence I don't use pejorative terms for comfortably off Remainers who voted, in my opinion, to continue to damage the lives of the working class, and just think of them as lacking in empathy.
0 -
It's best to avoid inflammatory rhetoric, even if it is just rhetoric, as some people may see it as a green light to go out and attack people.
I don't really see Farage's comment about 'putting the fear of God into politicians" as being beyond the pale (it's like Tony Benn saying the politicians should tremble as they await the voters' verdict). OTOH, cracks about someone being too ugly to rape are repulsive.0 -
Everyone has their reasons, I don't really think bad of anyone for voting the way they do, within reason.williamglenn said:
What do you think of working class Remainers?isam said:I do try to do the latter, hence I don't use pejorative terms for comfortably off Remainers who voted, in my opinion, to continue to damage the lives of the working class, and just think of them as lacking in empathy.
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So be it.JosiasJessop said:
If you really do try to understand where other people are coming from, then the comments you've made on this thread about Lammy seem rather odd.isam said:I do try to do the latter, hence I don't use pejorative terms for comfortably off Remainers who voted, in my opinion, to continue to damage the lives of the working class, and just think of them as lacking in empathy.
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You think they're voting to do damage to other working class people, or to themselves as well? In what form does this damage manifest itself?isam said:
Everyone has their reasons, I don't really think bad of anyone for voting the way they do, within reason.williamglenn said:
What do you think of working class Remainers?isam said:I do try to do the latter, hence I don't use pejorative terms for comfortably off Remainers who voted, in my opinion, to continue to damage the lives of the working class, and just think of them as lacking in empathy.
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Yes, I think they are voting to do damage to other working class people but am ready to accept that they don't think they are doing thatwilliamglenn said:
You think they're voting to do damage to other working class people, or to themselves as well? In what form does this damage manifest itself?isam said:
Everyone has their reasons, I don't really think bad of anyone for voting the way they do, within reason.williamglenn said:
What do you think of working class Remainers?isam said:I do try to do the latter, hence I don't use pejorative terms for comfortably off Remainers who voted, in my opinion, to continue to damage the lives of the working class, and just think of them as lacking in empathy.
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What form of damage?isam said:
Yes, I think they are voting to do damage to other working class people but am ready to accept that they don't think they are doing thatwilliamglenn said:
You think they're voting to do damage to other working class people, or to themselves as well? In what form does this damage manifest itself?isam said:
Everyone has their reasons, I don't really think bad of anyone for voting the way they do, within reason.williamglenn said:
What do you think of working class Remainers?isam said:I do try to do the latter, hence I don't use pejorative terms for comfortably off Remainers who voted, in my opinion, to continue to damage the lives of the working class, and just think of them as lacking in empathy.
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FOMwilliamglenn said:
What form of damage?isam said:
Yes, I think they are voting to do damage to other working class people but am ready to accept that they don't think they are doing thatwilliamglenn said:
You think they're voting to do damage to other working class people, or to themselves as well? In what form does this damage manifest itself?isam said:
Everyone has their reasons, I don't really think bad of anyone for voting the way they do, within reason.williamglenn said:
What do you think of working class Remainers?isam said:I do try to do the latter, hence I don't use pejorative terms for comfortably off Remainers who voted, in my opinion, to continue to damage the lives of the working class, and just think of them as lacking in empathy.
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They're damaged by having freedom?isam said:
FOMwilliamglenn said:
What form of damage?isam said:
Yes, I think they are voting to do damage to other working class people but am ready to accept that they don't think they are doing thatwilliamglenn said:
You think they're voting to do damage to other working class people, or to themselves as well? In what form does this damage manifest itself?isam said:
Everyone has their reasons, I don't really think bad of anyone for voting the way they do, within reason.williamglenn said:
What do you think of working class Remainers?isam said:I do try to do the latter, hence I don't use pejorative terms for comfortably off Remainers who voted, in my opinion, to continue to damage the lives of the working class, and just think of them as lacking in empathy.
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FOM is damaging for the British working class, yeswilliamglenn said:
They're damaged by having freedom?isam said:
FOMwilliamglenn said:
What form of damage?isam said:
Yes, I think they are voting to do damage to other working class people but am ready to accept that they don't think they are doing thatwilliamglenn said:
You think they're voting to do damage to other working class people, or to themselves as well? In what form does this damage manifest itself?isam said:
Everyone has their reasons, I don't really think bad of anyone for voting the way they do, within reason.williamglenn said:
What do you think of working class Remainers?isam said:I do try to do the latter, hence I don't use pejorative terms for comfortably off Remainers who voted, in my opinion, to continue to damage the lives of the working class, and just think of them as lacking in empathy.
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Is it damaging for the German working class?isam said:
FOM is damaging for the British working class, yeswilliamglenn said:
They're damaged by having freedom?isam said:
FOMwilliamglenn said:
What form of damage?isam said:
Yes, I think they are voting to do damage to other working class people but am ready to accept that they don't think they are doing thatwilliamglenn said:
You think they're voting to do damage to other working class people, or to themselves as well? In what form does this damage manifest itself?isam said:
Everyone has their reasons, I don't really think bad of anyone for voting the way they do, within reason.williamglenn said:
What do you think of working class Remainers?isam said:I do try to do the latter, hence I don't use pejorative terms for comfortably off Remainers who voted, in my opinion, to continue to damage the lives of the working class, and just think of them as lacking in empathy.
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Neither know, nor carewilliamglenn said:
Is it damaging for the German working class?isam said:
FOM is damaging for the British working class, yeswilliamglenn said:
They're damaged by having freedom?isam said:
FOMwilliamglenn said:
What form of damage?isam said:
Yes, I think they are voting to do damage to other working class people but am ready to accept that they don't think they are doing thatwilliamglenn said:
You think they're voting to do damage to other working class people, or to themselves as well? In what form does this damage manifest itself?isam said:
Everyone has their reasons, I don't really think bad of anyone for voting the way they do, within reason.williamglenn said:
What do you think of working class Remainers?isam said:I do try to do the latter, hence I don't use pejorative terms for comfortably off Remainers who voted, in my opinion, to continue to damage the lives of the working class, and just think of them as lacking in empathy.
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Am I the only one to think this rush to pronounce Assange guilty without any kind of trial disgusting?
Whatever happened to being presumed innocent?
Does anyone here actually have any real evidence that he skipped bail? Surely we should remain silent on this until the trial.0 -
Anyone advocating political violence should be the first against the wall.0
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Molinari 2 clear, 8 to go......0
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I wonder if he's going to use the those-nasty-Ecuadorians-were-keeping-me-captive-in-the-embassy defence?rcs1000 said:Am I the only one to think this rush to pronounce Assange guilty without any kind of trial disgusting?
Whatever happened to being presumed innocent?
Does anyone here actually have any real evidence that he skipped bail? Surely we should remain silent on this until the trial.0 -
If you're a working class man from Essex who meets a Polish girl who came here under FOM and falls in love and starts a family, have you been damaged by FOM?isam said:
Neither know, nor carewilliamglenn said:
Is it damaging for the German working class?isam said:
FOM is damaging for the British working class, yeswilliamglenn said:
They're damaged by having freedom?isam said:
FOMwilliamglenn said:
What form of damage?isam said:
Yes, I think they are voting to do damage to other working class people but am ready to accept that they don't think they are doing thatwilliamglenn said:
You think they're voting to do damage to other working class people, or to themselves as well? In what form does this damage manifest itself?isam said:
Everyone has their reasons, I don't really think bad of anyone for voting the way they do, within reason.williamglenn said:
What do you think of working class Remainers?isam said:I do try to do the latter, hence I don't use pejorative terms for comfortably off Remainers who voted, in my opinion, to continue to damage the lives of the working class, and just think of them as lacking in empathy.
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As an aside, Julian Assange had better hope to be extradited to Sweden to face his sex molestation charges first. Because then, it will be the Swedish government (and not our own) who is considering the extradition request from the US government.0
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No, but I am not saying it is a blanket negative for each individual but on balance a negative for a group.williamglenn said:
If you're a working class man from Essex who meets a Polish girl who came here under FOM and falls in love and starts a family, have you been damaged by FOM?isam said:
Neither know, nor carewilliamglenn said:
Is it damaging for the German working class?isam said:
FOM is damaging for the British working class, yeswilliamglenn said:
They're damaged by having freedom?isam said:
FOMwilliamglenn said:
What form of damage?isam said:
Yes, I think they are voting to do damage to other working class people but am ready to accept that they don't think they are doing thatwilliamglenn said:
You think they're voting to do damage to other working class people, or to themselves as well? In what form does this damage manifest itself?isam said:
Everyone has their reasons, I don't really think bad of anyone for voting the way they do, within reason.williamglenn said:
What do you think of working class Remainers?isam said:I do try to do the latter, hence I don't use pejorative terms for comfortably off Remainers who voted, in my opinion, to continue to damage the lives of the working class, and just think of them as lacking in empathy.
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If it's positive for some individuals, where does the downside come from?isam said:
No, but I am not saying it is a blanket negative for each individual but on balance a negative for a group.williamglenn said:
If you're a working class man from Essex who meets a Polish girl who came here under FOM and falls in love and starts a family, have you been damaged by FOM?isam said:
Neither know, nor carewilliamglenn said:
Is it damaging for the German working class?isam said:
FOM is damaging for the British working class, yeswilliamglenn said:
They're damaged by having freedom?isam said:
FOMwilliamglenn said:
What form of damage?isam said:
Yes, I think they are voting to do damage to other working class people but am ready to accept that they don't think they are doing thatwilliamglenn said:
You think they're voting to do damage to other working class people, or to themselves as well? In what form does this damage manifest itself?isam said:
Everyone has their reasons, I don't really think bad of anyone for voting the way they do, within reason.williamglenn said:
What do you think of working class Remainers?isam said:I do try to do the latter, hence I don't use pejorative terms for comfortably off Remainers who voted, in my opinion, to continue to damage the lives of the working class, and just think of them as lacking in empathy.
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The politicians (various) have laid in because after the complexity and difficultly of Brexit, this is a simple morality play and the US is invariably immoral in such plays. There’s no need to confront complex issues* so politicians can revert to simplistic emoting. That’s always easier.
*there is but the US is always wrong and Swedish rape is just a few fingers, not really a proper crime.0 -
Loss of job security, lower wages, rapidly changing neighbourhoods, longer queues at the doctors...williamglenn said:
If it's positive for some individuals, where does the downside come from?isam said:
No, but I am not saying it is a blanket negative for each individual but on balance a negative for a group.williamglenn said:
If you're a working class man from Essex who meets a Polish girl who came here under FOM and falls in love and starts a family, have you been damaged by FOM?isam said:
Neither know, nor carewilliamglenn said:
Is it damaging for the German working class?isam said:
FOM is damaging for the British working class, yeswilliamglenn said:
They're damaged by having freedom?isam said:
FOMwilliamglenn said:
What form of damage?isam said:
Yes, I think they are voting to do damage to other working class people but am ready to accept that they don't think they are doing thatwilliamglenn said:
You think they're voting to do damage to other working class people, or to themselves as well? In what form does this damage manifest itself?isam said:
Everyone has their reasons, I don't really think bad of anyone for voting the way they do, within reason.williamglenn said:
What do you think of working class Remainers?isam said:I do try to do the latter, hence I don't use pejorative terms for comfortably off Remainers who voted, in my opinion, to continue to damage the lives of the working class, and just think of them as lacking in empathy.
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I thought the trial (such as it was) for skipping bail had already happened (on Thursday within hours of him being arrested)?rcs1000 said:Am I the only one to think this rush to pronounce Assange guilty without any kind of trial disgusting?
Whatever happened to being presumed innocent?
Does anyone here actually have any real evidence that he skipped bail? Surely we should remain silent on this until the trial.
EDIT: Julian Assange branded 'narcissist' by judge as he is found guilty of breaching bail conditions - https://news.sky.com/story/julian-assange-branded-narcissist-by-judge-as-he-is-found-guilty-of-breaching-bail-conditions-116908340 -
Ask the luvvies who wrote £200k worth of bail cheques for him, never expecting that they would actually get cashed!rcs1000 said:Am I the only one to think this rush to pronounce Assange guilty without any kind of trial disgusting?
Whatever happened to being presumed innocent?
Does anyone here actually have any real evidence that he skipped bail? Surely we should remain silent on this until the trial.0
This discussion has been closed.