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38% in favour of No Deal on Friday is a pretty extraordinary number!Sean_F said:
Looking at polls as a whole, that seems about right. If you force people to extremes, they break 50/50 Revoke./No Deal.Benpointer said:
Ha!AndyJS said:"Britain split down the middle over preference for no deal or no Brexit, Telegraph poll reveals"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/04/08/exclusive-britons-split-middle-no-deal-no-brexit-telegraph-poll/
38% No Deal - 40% Revoke is 'split down the middle'; 52% Leave - 48% Remain is 'the will of the people'.
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That is fair. The Torygraph started it though!Richard_Tyndall said:
Polls are meaningless. We have known that for years now. All the more so when the decision is apparently so close.Benpointer said:
Ha!AndyJS said:"Britain split down the middle over preference for no deal or no Brexit, Telegraph poll reveals"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/04/08/exclusive-britons-split-middle-no-deal-no-brexit-telegraph-poll/
38% No Deal - 40% Revoke is 'split down the middle'; 52% Leave - 48% Remain is 'the will of the people'.
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Yes, you and I don't know the backstory but so what? What does "need to be accountable for their bad decisions" mean - is an addiction or a mental health problem a "bad decision"? Is losing your job and thereby your livelihood a bad decision? Is suffering abuse from a partner a bad decision?notme2 said:
There is almost certainly a long and very expensive story behind this of an army of people trying to help her. Some people need to be accountable for their bad decisions.
What does "accountable" mean? You make a mistake and you're damned for all eternity. That is mean spirited and callous - we should and need to be so much better than that. We're now in the 21st century not the age of the poor house though Terminus House sounds like a modern equivalent.
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And yet the evidence of our own eyes tells us a completely different story.DavidL said:The official figures on homelessness don't show any surge at all: https://www.homeless.org.uk/facts/homelessness-in-numbers/statutory-homelessness
Overall applications are down slightly over the last 5 years, accepted applications are up slightly. It is a disappointingly static picture given addressing this was supposed to be a priority but a surge it isn't.0 -
Gauke the latest MP to be in danger of having a local party VoNC..0
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Probably still includes a few who think No Deal = can the whole idea :-)GIN1138 said:
38% in favour of No Deal on Friday is a pretty extraordinary number!Sean_F said:
Looking at polls as a whole, that seems about right. If you force people to extremes, they break 50/50 Revoke./No Deal.Benpointer said:
Ha!AndyJS said:"Britain split down the middle over preference for no deal or no Brexit, Telegraph poll reveals"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/04/08/exclusive-britons-split-middle-no-deal-no-brexit-telegraph-poll/
38% No Deal - 40% Revoke is 'split down the middle'; 52% Leave - 48% Remain is 'the will of the people'.
It also shows why we need democratic representatives rather than public votes on major constitutional issues.0 -
O/T
"A majority across every generation, ethnic group and even Remain supporters want to reduce immigration, a mass survey voters has found.
Findings by the new Tory think tank Onward revealed majority backing for controlling numbers even among 18-24 year-olds - who back it by 38 to 36 per cent."
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8812811/immigration-cut-majority-survey-found/#comments0 -
There's a disturbing tendency towards put em in the poor house amongst the ignorant of this nation. Usually those that have not needed to avail themselves of welfare. As soon as they do it'll be 'well I paid in my whole life, Im entitled'stodge said:
Yes, you and I don't know the backstory but so what? What does "need to be accountable for their bad decisions" mean - is an addiction or a mental health problem a "bad decision"? Is losing your job and thereby your livelihood a bad decision? Is suffering abuse from a partner a bad decision?notme2 said:
There is almost certainly a long and very expensive story behind this of an army of people trying to help her. Some people need to be accountable for their bad decisions.
What does "accountable" mean? You make a mistake and you're damned for all eternity. That is mean spirited and callous - we should and need to be so much better than that. We're now in the 21st century not the age of the poor house though Terminus House sounds like a modern equivalent.
Sooner we move to universal income the better0 -
Probably her fault for sins in past lives.Benpointer said:
Her fault for choosing to be disabled, maybe??notme2 said:
I absolutely guarantee she is still only in temporary accommodation because she has repeatedly refused offers of rehousing, and is holding out for a nice flat somewhere, not the equiv of what she had. Though it sounds very shoddy to house her where she couldnt use a bathroom.Benpointer said:@notme2... Someone else 'making poor life choices'?
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/apr/09/grenfell-survivor-mariko-toyoshima-lewis-kensington-chelsea-council
(©Glen Hoddle)0 -
I saw this assertion made at Christmas on here, too. A week before Christmas I saw about thirty people sleeping in Charing Cross station, something I haven't seen since the 1980s. Many of them were talking in native English accents and appeared to be from outside of Central London.notme2 said:
Quite. rough sleeping is a subset of homelessness and the increase is largely non British people. Not sure what the solution is.Richard_Nabavi said:
Whilst not disagreeing with you, I wonder if you mean that you've seen an increase in rough sleeping in the last 2-3 years? Not the same thing as homelessness, and a very important distinction.WhisperingOracle said:Homelessness has been rising dramatically, all over the country in the last 2-3 years. I've seen it with my own eyes.
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Has The Ludicrous Cox been cast into the outer darkness? A few weeks ago he was the corpulent and comb-overed face of brexit.HYUFD said:0 -
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I think what we are seeing is more rough sleeping, as Richard mentioned earlier. It is a lot more obvious than people in overcrowded conditions or sofa surfing. It has clearly increased since Romania joined the EU and we received a lot more professional beggars than we had before.The_Woodpecker said:
And yet the evidence of our own eyes tells us a completely different story.DavidL said:The official figures on homelessness don't show any surge at all: https://www.homeless.org.uk/facts/homelessness-in-numbers/statutory-homelessness
Overall applications are down slightly over the last 5 years, accepted applications are up slightly. It is a disappointingly static picture given addressing this was supposed to be a priority but a surge it isn't.0 -
This isn't just about homelessness or rough sleeping but about the quality of life for thousands of people. It shouldn't be acceptable in 2019 in the UK for families to live in one room - it shouldn't be acceptable for 20 or more people to live in a 3-bedroom suburban semi and it shouldn't be people for people to be caged up in a modern day workhouse like Terminus House.DavidL said:The official figures on homelessness don't show any surge at all: https://www.homeless.org.uk/facts/homelessness-in-numbers/statutory-homelessness
Overall applications are down slightly over the last 5 years, accepted applications are up slightly. It is a disappointingly static picture given addressing this was supposed to be a priority but a surge it isn't.
Rough sleeping is a niche issue and I'm aware there are a core of people who prefer to live that way and that's fair enough. I'm also aware those who re homeless or sleep rough are disproportionately prone to addiction and mental health issue and I'm also aware ex-servicemen and ex-offenders are disproportionately highly represented among rough sleepers so it's a complex issue.
The problem comes when individual cases are cited and used to demonise those seeking help and this was unfortunately the case in the Coalition years when the drive to reduce public spending was coupled with campaigns to imply there was widespread abuse of the benefits system.0 -
Talking in their sleep?WhisperingOracle said:
I saw this assertion made at Christmas on here, too. A week before Christmas I saw about thirty people sleeping in Charing Cross station, something I haven't seen since the 1980s. Many of them were talking in native English accents and appeared to be from outside of Central London.notme2 said:
Quite. rough sleeping is a subset of homelessness and the increase is largely non British people. Not sure what the solution is.Richard_Nabavi said:
Whilst not disagreeing with you, I wonder if you mean that you've seen an increase in rough sleeping in the last 2-3 years? Not the same thing as homelessness, and a very important distinction.WhisperingOracle said:Homelessness has been rising dramatically, all over the country in the last 2-3 years. I've seen it with my own eyes.
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I think that (say) a vote by Scottish MP's in favour of independence, without a referendum, would be a recipe for civil war.Benpointer said:
Probably still includes a few who think No Deal = can the whole idea :-)GIN1138 said:
38% in favour of No Deal on Friday is a pretty extraordinary number!Sean_F said:
Looking at polls as a whole, that seems about right. If you force people to extremes, they break 50/50 Revoke./No Deal.Benpointer said:
Ha!AndyJS said:"Britain split down the middle over preference for no deal or no Brexit, Telegraph poll reveals"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/04/08/exclusive-britons-split-middle-no-deal-no-brexit-telegraph-poll/
38% No Deal - 40% Revoke is 'split down the middle'; 52% Leave - 48% Remain is 'the will of the people'.
It also shows why we need democratic representatives rather than public votes on major constitutional issues.0 -
"Most rough sleepers are male and UK nationals. In 2016-17 86% of rough sleepers were male and, across England as a whole, around 80% of rough sleepers were UK nationals. In London, however, just 40% were UK nationals, and almost 30% from EU member states"DavidL said:
I think what we are seeing is more rough sleeping, as Richard mentioned earlier. It is a lot more obvious than people in overcrowded conditions or sofa surfing. It has clearly increased since Romania joined the EU and we received a lot more professional beggars than we had before.The_Woodpecker said:
And yet the evidence of our own eyes tells us a completely different story.DavidL said:The official figures on homelessness don't show any surge at all: https://www.homeless.org.uk/facts/homelessness-in-numbers/statutory-homelessness
Overall applications are down slightly over the last 5 years, accepted applications are up slightly. It is a disappointingly static picture given addressing this was supposed to be a priority but a surge it isn't.
https://www.nao.org.uk/naoblog/growing-number-of-rough-sleepers/0 -
The sign of sleep was their sleeping bags ; the time of day was 5pm.isam said:
Talking in their sleep?WhisperingOracle said:
I saw this assertion made at Christmas on here, too. A week before Christmas I saw about thirty people sleeping in Charing Cross station, something I haven't seen since the 1980s. Many of them were talking in native English accents and appeared to be from outside of Central London.notme2 said:
Quite. rough sleeping is a subset of homelessness and the increase is largely non British people. Not sure what the solution is.Richard_Nabavi said:
Whilst not disagreeing with you, I wonder if you mean that you've seen an increase in rough sleeping in the last 2-3 years? Not the same thing as homelessness, and a very important distinction.WhisperingOracle said:Homelessness has been rising dramatically, all over the country in the last 2-3 years. I've seen it with my own eyes.
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The competition for low wage jobs doesn't help the problem in your opening paragraph. But big corporates cant make huge profits without such exploitationstodge said:
This isn't just about homelessness or rough sleeping but about the quality of life for thousands of people. It shouldn't be acceptable in 2019 in the UK for families to live in one room - it shouldn't be acceptable for 20 or more people to live in a 3-bedroom suburban semi and it shouldn't be people for people to be caged up in a modern day workhouse like Terminus House.DavidL said:The official figures on homelessness don't show any surge at all: https://www.homeless.org.uk/facts/homelessness-in-numbers/statutory-homelessness
Overall applications are down slightly over the last 5 years, accepted applications are up slightly. It is a disappointingly static picture given addressing this was supposed to be a priority but a surge it isn't.
Rough sleeping is a niche issue and I'm aware there are a core of people who prefer to live that way and that's fair enough. I'm also aware those who re homeless or sleep rough are disproportionately prone to addiction and mental health issue and I'm also aware ex-servicemen and ex-offenders are disproportionately highly represented among rough sleepers so it's a complex issue.
The problem comes when individual cases are cited and used to demonise those seeking help and this was unfortunately the case in the Coalition years when the drive to reduce public spending was coupled with campaigns to imply there was widespread abuse of the benefits system.0 -
There are english rough sleepers all over southwest london now, in affluent areas where there never were. From my experience speaking to them and the people who run supermarkets outside which they often seemed to be stationed, they tend to be ex-army people, people with psychological issues lost by cut mental health services, or people who failed to pay their rent due to benefit changes.DavidL said:
I think what we are seeing is more rough sleeping, as Richard mentioned earlier. It is a lot more obvious than people in overcrowded conditions or sofa surfing. It has clearly increased since Romania joined the EU and we received a lot more professional beggars than we had before.The_Woodpecker said:
And yet the evidence of our own eyes tells us a completely different story.DavidL said:The official figures on homelessness don't show any surge at all: https://www.homeless.org.uk/facts/homelessness-in-numbers/statutory-homelessness
Overall applications are down slightly over the last 5 years, accepted applications are up slightly. It is a disappointingly static picture given addressing this was supposed to be a priority but a surge it isn't.0 -
I don't disagree with any of that. What is really needed is joined up thinking which restricts the number of immigrants to the level of housing available. We have had over a decade of very high immigration and very low levels of house building. The consequences are inevitable, indeed it is surprising that it has not been even worse.stodge said:
This isn't just about homelessness or rough sleeping but about the quality of life for thousands of people. It shouldn't be acceptable in 2019 in the UK for families to live in one room - it shouldn't be acceptable for 20 or more people to live in a 3-bedroom suburban semi and it shouldn't be people for people to be caged up in a modern day workhouse like Terminus House.DavidL said:The official figures on homelessness don't show any surge at all: https://www.homeless.org.uk/facts/homelessness-in-numbers/statutory-homelessness
Overall applications are down slightly over the last 5 years, accepted applications are up slightly. It is a disappointingly static picture given addressing this was supposed to be a priority but a surge it isn't.
Rough sleeping is a niche issue and I'm aware there are a core of people who prefer to live that way and that's fair enough. I'm also aware those who re homeless or sleep rough are disproportionately prone to addiction and mental health issue and I'm also aware ex-servicemen and ex-offenders are disproportionately highly represented among rough sleepers so it's a complex issue.
The problem comes when individual cases are cited and used to demonise those seeking help and this was unfortunately the case in the Coalition years when the drive to reduce public spending was coupled with campaigns to imply there was widespread abuse of the benefits system.0 -
Your refusal to see that any of this is not to do with immigration is quite extraordinary.DavidL said:
I don't disagree with any of that. What is really needed is joined up thinking which restricts the number of immigrants to the level of housing available. We have had over a decade of very high immigration and very low levels of house building. The consequences are inevitable, indeed it is surprising that it has not been even worse.stodge said:
This isn't just about homelessness or rough sleeping but about the quality of life for thousands of people. It shouldn't be acceptable in 2019 in the UK for families to live in one room - it shouldn't be acceptable for 20 or more people to live in a 3-bedroom suburban semi and it shouldn't be people for people to be caged up in a modern day workhouse like Terminus House.DavidL said:The official figures on homelessness don't show any surge at all: https://www.homeless.org.uk/facts/homelessness-in-numbers/statutory-homelessness
Overall applications are down slightly over the last 5 years, accepted applications are up slightly. It is a disappointingly static picture given addressing this was supposed to be a priority but a surge it isn't.
Rough sleeping is a niche issue and I'm aware there are a core of people who prefer to live that way and that's fair enough. I'm also aware those who re homeless or sleep rough are disproportionately prone to addiction and mental health issue and I'm also aware ex-servicemen and ex-offenders are disproportionately highly represented among rough sleepers so it's a complex issue.
The problem comes when individual cases are cited and used to demonise those seeking help and this was unfortunately the case in the Coalition years when the drive to reduce public spending was coupled with campaigns to imply there was widespread abuse of the benefits system.0 -
There you have the problem of modern capitalism. The Victorian entrepreneurs realised an educated and healthy work force would be more productive so they led the way in public health and education. Cities were cleared of cholera though not pollution and gradually diet improved so people became taller, stronger and lived longer.isam said:
The competition for low wage jobs doesn't help the problem in your opening paragraph. But big corporates cant make huge profits without such exploitationstodge said:
This isn't just about homelessness or rough sleeping but about the quality of life for thousands of people. It shouldn't be acceptable in 2019 in the UK for families to live in one room - it shouldn't be acceptable for 20 or more people to live in a 3-bedroom suburban semi and it shouldn't be people for people to be caged up in a modern day workhouse like Terminus House.DavidL said:The official figures on homelessness don't show any surge at all: https://www.homeless.org.uk/facts/homelessness-in-numbers/statutory-homelessness
Overall applications are down slightly over the last 5 years, accepted applications are up slightly. It is a disappointingly static picture given addressing this was supposed to be a priority but a surge it isn't.
We need a similar approach in the 21st Century with capitalism leading the way on tackling climate change, addiction and mental health. I'd start by reducing working hours and ending the "long hours" culture which is fuelled by drug use and/or poor diet. If we worked less and lived a little more, I think we'd all be better off.0 -
Quite.isam said:
"Most rough sleepers are male and UK nationals. In 2016-17 86% of rough sleepers were male and, across England as a whole, around 80% of rough sleepers were UK nationals. In London, however, just 40% were UK nationals, and almost 30% from EU member states"DavidL said:
I think what we are seeing is more rough sleeping, as Richard mentioned earlier. It is a lot more obvious than people in overcrowded conditions or sofa surfing. It has clearly increased since Romania joined the EU and we received a lot more professional beggars than we had before.The_Woodpecker said:
And yet the evidence of our own eyes tells us a completely different story.DavidL said:The official figures on homelessness don't show any surge at all: https://www.homeless.org.uk/facts/homelessness-in-numbers/statutory-homelessness
Overall applications are down slightly over the last 5 years, accepted applications are up slightly. It is a disappointingly static picture given addressing this was supposed to be a priority but a surge it isn't.
https://www.nao.org.uk/naoblog/growing-number-of-rough-sleepers/0 -
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Think he's announced he's standing down at the next election... Saves his local party the bother of deselecting him anyway....TGOHF said: 0 -
The book "Enough" by John Naish is interesting regarding your last point.stodge said:
There you have the problem of modern capitalism. The Victorian entrepreneurs realised an educated and healthy work force would be more productive so they led the way in public health and education. Cities were cleared of cholera though not pollution and gradually diet improved so people became taller, stronger and lived longer.isam said:
The competition for low wage jobs doesn't help the problem in your opening paragraph. But big corporates cant make huge profits without such exploitationstodge said:
This isn't just about homelessness or rough sleeping but about the quality of life for thousands of people. It shouldn't be acceptable in 2019 in the UK for families to live in one room - it shouldn't be acceptable for 20 or more people to live in a 3-bedroom suburban semi and it shouldn't be people for people to be caged up in a modern day workhouse like Terminus House.DavidL said:The official figures on homelessness don't show any surge at all: https://www.homeless.org.uk/facts/homelessness-in-numbers/statutory-homelessness
Overall applications are down slightly over the last 5 years, accepted applications are up slightly. It is a disappointingly static picture given addressing this was supposed to be a priority but a surge it isn't.
We need a similar approach in the 21st Century with capitalism leading the way on tackling climate change, addiction and mental health. I'd start by reducing working hours and ending the "long hours" culture which is fuelled by drug use and/or poor diet. If we worked less and lived a little more, I think we'd all be better off.
I was going to reply to an earlier point of yours by saying that it would be better if people in unfortunate circumstances were housed in beautiful buildings that they had to take care of, rather than bunged in a office block prison. The Victorians also built towns for their workers didn't they? (Bournville being one I think)...0 -
They clearly did an excellent job of suppressing it...oh.rottenborough said:Update from the asylum:
https://twitter.com/tpgcolson/status/11155843925277941820 -
I didn't say that. I simply pointed out that adding 300k+ a year to a population when we are building substantially less than 100k houses is likely to cause problems. Obviously there are other issues such as Care in the Community programs, the changes in benefits by which HB was paid to tenants rather than direct to the landlord, cuts in social services etc.WhisperingOracle said:
Your refusal to see that any of this is not to do with immigration is quite extraordinary.DavidL said:
I don't disagree with any of that. What is really needed is joined up thinking which restricts the number of immigrants to the level of housing available. We have had over a decade of very high immigration and very low levels of house building. The consequences are inevitable, indeed it is surprising that it has not been even worse.stodge said:
This isn't just about homelessness or rough sleeping but about the quality of life for thousands of people. It shouldn't be acceptable in 2019 in the UK for families to live in one room - it shouldn't be acceptable for 20 or more people to live in a 3-bedroom suburban semi and it shouldn't be people for people to be caged up in a modern day workhouse like Terminus House.DavidL said:The official figures on homelessness don't show any surge at all: https://www.homeless.org.uk/facts/homelessness-in-numbers/statutory-homelessness
Overall applications are down slightly over the last 5 years, accepted applications are up slightly. It is a disappointingly static picture given addressing this was supposed to be a priority but a surge it isn't.
Rough sleeping is a niche issue and I'm aware there are a core of people who prefer to live that way and that's fair enough. I'm also aware those who re homeless or sleep rough are disproportionately prone to addiction and mental health issue and I'm also aware ex-servicemen and ex-offenders are disproportionately highly represented among rough sleepers so it's a complex issue.
The problem comes when individual cases are cited and used to demonise those seeking help and this was unfortunately the case in the Coalition years when the drive to reduce public spending was coupled with campaigns to imply there was widespread abuse of the benefits system.
But the statistics don't show a changing picture, just one that is not improving.0 -
Brilliant media management 😂😂😂ydoethur said:
They clearly did an excellent job of suppressing it...oh.rottenborough said:Update from the asylum:
https://twitter.com/tpgcolson/status/11155843925277941820 -
I don't think that true in Leicester. Almost all of the rough sleepers in Leicester, and they are plentiful, are white British. Often ex prisoners with drug and other problems, some ex forces or simply fallen through the cracks of the welfare state.notme2 said:
Quite. rough sleeping is a subset of homelessness and the increase is largely non British people. Not sure what the solution is.Richard_Nabavi said:
Whilst not disagreeing with you, I wonder if you mean that you've seen an increase in rough sleeping in the last 2-3 years? Not the same thing as homelessness, and a very important distinction.WhisperingOracle said:Homelessness has been rising dramatically, all over the country in the last 2-3 years. I've seen it with my own eyes.
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I'd concentrate elsewhere: that's no good if they don't have jobs.stodge said:There you have the problem of modern capitalism. The Victorian entrepreneurs realised an educated and healthy work force would be more productive so they led the way in public health and education. Cities were cleared of cholera though not pollution and gradually diet improved so people became taller, stronger and lived longer.
We need a similar approach in the 21st Century with capitalism leading the way on tackling climate change, addiction and mental health. I'd start by reducing working hours and ending the "long hours" culture which is fuelled by drug use and/or poor diet. If we worked less and lived a little more, I think we'd all be better off.
I know a fair few mothers of other children at my son's school. Most of these are solidly middle- or working- class. A couple of them that I know reasonably well, however, are really struggling, and show it. When I talk to them, it seems that in both their cases their problems go back as far as school.
Remember, roughly a fifth of people are functionally illiterate or innumerate. A few percent of those will have learning difficulties, but for most it is a case of failure by themselves as kids, failure of their parents and failure by the school and authorities.
On the other hand, an old friend of mine was told she would never amount to anything, was from a rough family, and she's ended up doing rather well for herself. This was despite her having to drop out of university as her parents would not help her with money - despite their still going out to the pub three or four nights a week.
That is where we need to concentrate. It would be interesting to see how the figures for homelessness and other problems vary with academic results - if only to see my guesses are correct.
There is only so much that schools can do (and some do all they can, whilst others routinely let their children down), and much is down to the parents.
But I'd put it more simply than that: children need to be taught that there are few, if any, short circuits, and their future prospects very much depend on how hard they work at school.0 -
Plenty of ex-HMF are rough sleepers. Or were.isam said:
"Most rough sleepers are male and UK nationals. In 2016-17 86% of rough sleepers were male and, across England as a whole, around 80% of rough sleepers were UK nationals. In London, however, just 40% were UK nationals, and almost 30% from EU member states"DavidL said:
I think what we are seeing is more rough sleeping, as Richard mentioned earlier. It is a lot more obvious than people in overcrowded conditions or sofa surfing. It has clearly increased since Romania joined the EU and we received a lot more professional beggars than we had before.The_Woodpecker said:
And yet the evidence of our own eyes tells us a completely different story.DavidL said:The official figures on homelessness don't show any surge at all: https://www.homeless.org.uk/facts/homelessness-in-numbers/statutory-homelessness
Overall applications are down slightly over the last 5 years, accepted applications are up slightly. It is a disappointingly static picture given addressing this was supposed to be a priority but a surge it isn't.
https://www.nao.org.uk/naoblog/growing-number-of-rough-sleepers/0 -
Well, glad to see some broader recognition of the situation there. I've seen very little evidence to support your final point, though.DavidL said:
I didn't say that. I simply pointed out that adding 300k+ a year to a population when we are building substantially less than 100k houses is likely to cause problems. Obviously there are other issues such as Care in the Community programs, the changes in benefits by which HB was paid to tenants rather than direct to the landlord, cuts in social services etc.WhisperingOracle said:
Your refusal to see that any of this is not to do with immigration is quite extraordinary.DavidL said:
I don't disagree with any of that. What is really needed is joined up thinking which restricts the number of immigrants to the level of housing available. We have had over a decade of very high immigration and very low levels of house building. The consequences are inevitable, indeed it is surprising that it has not been even worse.stodge said:
This isn't just about homelessness or rough sleeping but about the quality of life for thousands of people. It shouldn't be acceptable in 2019 in the UK for families to live in one room - it shouldn't be acceptable for 20 or more people to live in a 3-bedroom suburban semi and it shouldn't be people for people to be caged up in a modern day workhouse like Terminus House.DavidL said:The official figures on homelessness don't show any surge at all: https://www.homeless.org.uk/facts/homelessness-in-numbers/statutory-homelessness
Overall applications are down slightly over the last 5 years, accepted applications are up slightly. It is a disappointingly static picture given addressing this was supposed to be a priority but a surge it isn't.
Rough sleeping is a niche issue and I'm aware there are a core of people who prefer to live that way and that's fair enough. I'm also aware those who re homeless or sleep rough are disproportionately prone to addiction and mental health issue and I'm also aware ex-servicemen and ex-offenders are disproportionately highly represented among rough sleepers so it's a complex issue.
The problem comes when individual cases are cited and used to demonise those seeking help and this was unfortunately the case in the Coalition years when the drive to reduce public spending was coupled with campaigns to imply there was widespread abuse of the benefits system.
But the statistics don't show a changing picture, just one that is not improving.
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Arent all those jobs protected by raised minimum wage and increased tax thresholds?isam said:
The competition for low wage jobs doesn't help the problem in your opening paragraph. But big corporates cant make huge profits without such exploitationstodge said:
This isn't just about homelessness or rough sleeping but about the quality of life for thousands of people. It shouldn't be acceptable in 2019 in the UK for families to live in one room - it shouldn't be acceptable for 20 or more people to live in a 3-bedroom suburban semi and it shouldn't be people for people to be caged up in a modern day workhouse like Terminus House.DavidL said:The official figures on homelessness don't show any surge at all: https://www.homeless.org.uk/facts/homelessness-in-numbers/statutory-homelessness
Overall applications are down slightly over the last 5 years, accepted applications are up slightly. It is a disappointingly static picture given addressing this was supposed to be a priority but a surge it isn't.
Rough sleeping is a niche issue and I'm aware there are a core of people who prefer to live that way and that's fair enough. I'm also aware those who re homeless or sleep rough are disproportionately prone to addiction and mental health issue and I'm also aware ex-servicemen and ex-offenders are disproportionately highly represented among rough sleepers so it's a complex issue.
The problem comes when individual cases are cited and used to demonise those seeking help and this was unfortunately the case in the Coalition years when the drive to reduce public spending was coupled with campaigns to imply there was widespread abuse of the benefits system.0 -
I don't know what it's like round your bit but there aren't many Romanian rough sleepers in Glasgow. To use a favourite Brexitty right trope, why would they come over here to take advantage of the UK benefit system then make it much harder for themselves to do so?DavidL said:
I think what we are seeing is more rough sleeping, as Richard mentioned earlier. It is a lot more obvious than people in overcrowded conditions or sofa surfing. It has clearly increased since Romania joined the EU and we received a lot more professional beggars than we had before.The_Woodpecker said:
And yet the evidence of our own eyes tells us a completely different story.DavidL said:The official figures on homelessness don't show any surge at all: https://www.homeless.org.uk/facts/homelessness-in-numbers/statutory-homelessness
Overall applications are down slightly over the last 5 years, accepted applications are up slightly. It is a disappointingly static picture given addressing this was supposed to be a priority but a surge it isn't.
In any case, as suggested in the recent 60 Days On The Streets programme, Glasgow at least seems to have made a dent in rough sleeping compared to other places.
'But after arriving during the coldest part of winter, what he found waiting for him on the streets of Glasgow took him by surprise.
“It was really positive, he explains. “There was a bed first policy and so many positive things going on, including the joined-up thinking and how all the organisations talk to each other. There was even an organisation that was set up to allow the different, fragmented organisations set up for homeless people to communicate with each other...
“There was more examples of people with their cases being solved, due to the progressive policies up in Scotland. I think it will be a bit of a light at the end of quite a dark tunnel in terms of the first two episodes. There was a lot that English local authorities and charities could learn from in the way things are being done.” '
https://tinyurl.com/y4mrmhto
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LOL. Yes that is also fairBenpointer said:
That is fair. The Torygraph started it though!Richard_Tyndall said:
Polls are meaningless. We have known that for years now. All the more so when the decision is apparently so close.Benpointer said:
Ha!AndyJS said:"Britain split down the middle over preference for no deal or no Brexit, Telegraph poll reveals"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/04/08/exclusive-britons-split-middle-no-deal-no-brexit-telegraph-poll/
38% No Deal - 40% Revoke is 'split down the middle'; 52% Leave - 48% Remain is 'the will of the people'.
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New thread.0
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This
Thread has Defected
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Neither “crossing the bar” or “charge of the light brigade” would be good choices!Theuniondivvie said:0 -
Still are, if their signs are to be believed.TOPPING said:
Plenty of ex-HMF are rough sleepers. Or were.isam said:
"Most rough sleepers are male and UK nationals. In 2016-17 86% of rough sleepers were male and, across England as a whole, around 80% of rough sleepers were UK nationals. In London, however, just 40% were UK nationals, and almost 30% from EU member states"DavidL said:
I think what we are seeing is more rough sleeping, as Richard mentioned earlier. It is a lot more obvious than people in overcrowded conditions or sofa surfing. It has clearly increased since Romania joined the EU and we received a lot more professional beggars than we had before.The_Woodpecker said:
And yet the evidence of our own eyes tells us a completely different story.DavidL said:The official figures on homelessness don't show any surge at all: https://www.homeless.org.uk/facts/homelessness-in-numbers/statutory-homelessness
Overall applications are down slightly over the last 5 years, accepted applications are up slightly. It is a disappointingly static picture given addressing this was supposed to be a priority but a surge it isn't.
https://www.nao.org.uk/naoblog/growing-number-of-rough-sleepers/
I think if you take people of low educational attainment, cosset them for several years when most of us are learning to look after ourselves, providing them with most of their food, accommodation, entertainment, support networks etc and then put them out on their own in their 30s it is hardly surprising that they don't cope. It's frankly irresponsible.0 -
I dont think so noFoxy said:
Arent all those jobs protected by raised minimum wage and increased tax thresholds?isam said:
The competition for low wage jobs doesn't help the problem in your opening paragraph. But big corporates cant make huge profits without such exploitationstodge said:
This isn't just about homelessness or rough sleeping but about the quality of life for thousands of people. It shouldn't be acceptable in 2019 in the UK for families to live in one room - it shouldn't be acceptable for 20 or more people to live in a 3-bedroom suburban semi and it shouldn't be people for people to be caged up in a modern day workhouse like Terminus House.DavidL said:The official figures on homelessness don't show any surge at all: https://www.homeless.org.uk/facts/homelessness-in-numbers/statutory-homelessness
Overall applications are down slightly over the last 5 years, accepted applications are up slightly. It is a disappointingly static picture given addressing this was supposed to be a priority but a surge it isn't.
Rough sleeping is a niche issue and I'm aware there are a core of people who prefer to live that way and that's fair enough. I'm also aware those who re homeless or sleep rough are disproportionately prone to addiction and mental health issue and I'm also aware ex-servicemen and ex-offenders are disproportionately highly represented among rough sleepers so it's a complex issue.
The problem comes when individual cases are cited and used to demonise those seeking help and this was unfortunately the case in the Coalition years when the drive to reduce public spending was coupled with campaigns to imply there was widespread abuse of the benefits system.0 -
In London, 40% of Rough Sleepers are British NationalsTheuniondivvie said:
I don't know what it's like round your bit but there aren't many Romanian rough sleepers in Glasgow. To use a favourite Brexitty right trope, why would they come over here to take advantage of the UK benefit system then make it much harder for themselves to do so?DavidL said:
I think what we are seeing is more rough sleeping, as Richard mentioned earlier. It is a lot more obvious than people in overcrowded conditions or sofa surfing. It has clearly increased since Romania joined the EU and we received a lot more professional beggars than we had before.The_Woodpecker said:
And yet the evidence of our own eyes tells us a completely different story.DavidL said:The official figures on homelessness don't show any surge at all: https://www.homeless.org.uk/facts/homelessness-in-numbers/statutory-homelessness
Overall applications are down slightly over the last 5 years, accepted applications are up slightly. It is a disappointingly static picture given addressing this was supposed to be a priority but a surge it isn't.
In any case, as suggested in the recent 60 Days On The Streets programme, Glasgow at least seems to have made a dent in rough sleeping compared to other places.
'But after arriving during the coldest part of winter, what he found waiting for him on the streets of Glasgow took him by surprise.
“It was really positive, he explains. “There was a bed first policy and so many positive things going on, including the joined-up thinking and how all the organisations talk to each other. There was even an organisation that was set up to allow the different, fragmented organisations set up for homeless people to communicate with each other...
“There was more examples of people with their cases being solved, due to the progressive policies up in Scotland. I think it will be a bit of a light at the end of quite a dark tunnel in terms of the first two episodes. There was a lot that English local authorities and charities could learn from in the way things are being done.” '
https://tinyurl.com/y4mrmhto
https://www.nao.org.uk/naoblog/growing-number-of-rough-sleepers/0 -
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Good to see them getting treated the way they should be , will be back door in a bin lorry next time. Then tomorrow she has to sit outside the room whilst the EU members decide what rules they will impose on England in exchange for agreeing Theresa's beg for more time. How low the mighty have fallen.TOPPING said:
Oh god no that is making me feel sorry for May.Theuniondivvie said:I have to tell you now that no red carpet welcome was received, and that
consequently this country is at war with Germany.
https://twitter.com/jennyhillBBC/status/11155754782643978240 -
They are such lying toerags that no-one would believe they would keep their word otherwise.edmundintokyo said:
Why do you need the agreement of 27 countries for the British to make a promise?Big_G_NorthWales said:
It would require a treaty to be legally binding agreed by all 27 and enforceable by the ECJedmundintokyo said:
Not saying you're wrong but why not?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not possibleedmundintokyo said:
Presumably the country in question could make a legally-binding promise?Cyclefree said:
If a country is a member, what is the legal basis for imposing conditions on how it exercises its membership rights?WhisperingOracle said:
These "good behaviour" conditions the EU are going to attach are going to become very politically important now.Scott_P said:0 -
So just free bevvy and lunch thenkle4 said:
Shame. I guess what they want is pretty irrelevant anyway.dyedwoolie said:0 -
Surely you do not rough sleep if you have a house and therefore are de facto homeless.notme2 said:
Quite. rough sleeping is a subset of homelessness and the increase is largely non British people. Not sure what the solution is.Richard_Nabavi said:
Whilst not disagreeing with you, I wonder if you mean that you've seen an increase in rough sleeping in the last 2-3 years? Not the same thing as homelessness, and a very important distinction.WhisperingOracle said:Homelessness has been rising dramatically, all over the country in the last 2-3 years. I've seen it with my own eyes.
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Bring it onSean_F said:
I think that (say) a vote by Scottish MP's in favour of independence, without a referendum, would be a recipe for civil war.Benpointer said:
Probably still includes a few who think No Deal = can the whole idea :-)GIN1138 said:
38% in favour of No Deal on Friday is a pretty extraordinary number!Sean_F said:
Looking at polls as a whole, that seems about right. If you force people to extremes, they break 50/50 Revoke./No Deal.Benpointer said:
Ha!AndyJS said:"Britain split down the middle over preference for no deal or no Brexit, Telegraph poll reveals"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/04/08/exclusive-britons-split-middle-no-deal-no-brexit-telegraph-poll/
38% No Deal - 40% Revoke is 'split down the middle'; 52% Leave - 48% Remain is 'the will of the people'.
It also shows why we need democratic representatives rather than public votes on major constitutional issues.0 -
Why do we have any non UK and Irish citizen rough sleepers. Other EU member states wouldn’t support them but send them home as they aren’t by definition meeting FOM criteria.isam said:
"Most rough sleepers are male and UK nationals. In 2016-17 86% of rough sleepers were male and, across England as a whole, around 80% of rough sleepers were UK nationals. In London, however, just 40% were UK nationals, and almost 30% from EU member states"DavidL said:
I think what we are seeing is more rough sleeping, as Richard mentioned earlier. It is a lot more obvious than people in overcrowded conditions or sofa surfing. It has clearly increased since Romania joined the EU and we received a lot more professional beggars than we had before.The_Woodpecker said:
And yet the evidence of our own eyes tells us a completely different story.DavidL said:The official figures on homelessness don't show any surge at all: https://www.homeless.org.uk/facts/homelessness-in-numbers/statutory-homelessness
Overall applications are down slightly over the last 5 years, accepted applications are up slightly. It is a disappointingly static picture given addressing this was supposed to be a priority but a surge it isn't.
https://www.nao.org.uk/naoblog/growing-number-of-rough-sleepers/
Sorry to be harsh but why is it our problem to house foreign single male nationals from other EU member states.0 -
It is SNP policy though so no chance the unionists will accept itTheuniondivvie said:
I don't know what it's like round your bit but there aren't many Romanian rough sleepers in Glasgow. To use a favourite Brexitty right trope, why would they come over here to take advantage of the UK benefit system then make it much harder for themselves to do so?DavidL said:
I think what we are seeing is more rough sleeping, as Richard mentioned earlier. It is a lot more obvious than people in overcrowded conditions or sofa surfing. It has clearly increased since Romania joined the EU and we received a lot more professional beggars than we had before.The_Woodpecker said:
And yet the evidence of our own eyes tells us a completely different story.DavidL said:The official figures on homelessness don't show any surge at all: https://www.homeless.org.uk/facts/homelessness-in-numbers/statutory-homelessness
Overall applications are down slightly over the last 5 years, accepted applications are up slightly. It is a disappointingly static picture given addressing this was supposed to be a priority but a surge it isn't.
In any case, as suggested in the recent 60 Days On The Streets programme, Glasgow at least seems to have made a dent in rough sleeping compared to other places.
'But after arriving during the coldest part of winter, what he found waiting for him on the streets of Glasgow took him by surprise.
“It was really positive, he explains. “There was a bed first policy and so many positive things going on, including the joined-up thinking and how all the organisations talk to each other. There was even an organisation that was set up to allow the different, fragmented organisations set up for homeless people to communicate with each other...
“There was more examples of people with their cases being solved, due to the progressive policies up in Scotland. I think it will be a bit of a light at the end of quite a dark tunnel in terms of the first two episodes. There was a lot that English local authorities and charities could learn from in the way things are being done.” '
https://tinyurl.com/y4mrmhto0 -
David, Not sure where you see any Tories cosseting poor people, is it an east coast thing.DavidL said:
Still are, if their signs are to be believed.TOPPING said:
Plenty of ex-HMF are rough sleepers. Or were.isam said:
"Most rough sleepers are male and UK nationals. In 2016-17 86% of rough sleepers were male and, across England as a whole, around 80% of rough sleepers were UK nationals. In London, however, just 40% were UK nationals, and almost 30% from EU member states"DavidL said:
I think what we are seeing is more rough sleeping, as Richard mentioned earlier. It is a lot more obvious than people in overcrowded conditions or sofa surfing. It has clearly increased since Romania joined the EU and we received a lot more professional beggars than we had before.The_Woodpecker said:
And yet the evidence of our own eyes tells us a completely different story.DavidL said:The official figures on homelessness don't show any surge at all: https://www.homeless.org.uk/facts/homelessness-in-numbers/statutory-homelessness
Overall applications are down slightly over the last 5 years, accepted applications are up slightly. It is a disappointingly static picture given addressing this was supposed to be a priority but a surge it isn't.
https://www.nao.org.uk/naoblog/growing-number-of-rough-sleepers/
I think if you take people of low educational attainment, cosset them for several years when most of us are learning to look after ourselves, providing them with most of their food, accommodation, entertainment, support networks etc and then put them out on their own in their 30s it is hardly surprising that they don't cope. It's frankly irresponsible.0
